Happy Scribe Logo

Transcript

Proofread by 0 readers
Proofread
[00:00:00]

Don't ask BTIG is supported by Latter-Day Lesbian Podcast about an exmormon gay girl trying to figure out life hosts.

[00:00:08]

Sheli, a divorced ex Mormon mother of seven, and her partner Mary tackle religious trauma and later in life, LGBTQ issues. In their weekly podcast, Latter Day Lesbian is available. Wherever you listen to podcast, this show is heartfelt. It's funny, it's gay. It's everything we're all looking for. Find out more at Latter-Day Lesbian Doug. This is Don't Ask BTIG, I'm Tig Notaro. And look at you asking again, we not. And today, I get help giving advice from the very wise author, Glenanne Doyle, when I picked up Glennon's new book, Untamed, I realized I need to talk to this woman and turns out she was also excited to talk to me.

[00:01:24]

Glenanne Hi, Tag. Hi. I'm really excited to be here. I love you. I think you are a very special human being. And I was so thrilled when you invited me on this space. I'm just. Thank you.

[00:01:42]

Well, thank you. I love you. I think you are very special.

[00:01:46]

And I have to say that my wife, Stephanie is who turned me on to you.

[00:01:53]

She has been devouring everything you've ever written, said or done.

[00:02:01]

And then I was like, OK, I got to read this. WOMAN Oh, my God. OK, my ulterior motive to doing this podcast.

[00:02:10]

Oh, what's here? And the mission the mission that has been given to me by my wife is that I'm supposed to somehow during this hour make you and Stephanie are friends. So so I'm doing my best. I'm sweating already. But yeah, just give Stephanie my email and we'll just kick it off.

[00:02:33]

Listen, we've already had the same conversation at our house. OK, great. I said I said I imagine we're not the only people fantasizing about this double date friendship.

[00:02:45]

It's going to explode.

[00:02:47]

But anyway, Glenn and people like myself and a billion others love your writing because it's amazing, but it's also so helpful.

[00:02:59]

Is there a point in time like when it hits you where you thought, I do have something to offer and I can be helpful? Was there a. A pivotal moment for you. Hmm? Yes. So I got sober when I was twenty five and immediately started having too many children. OK, so I just got sober when I found out I was pregnant and then just started having kids every two years.

[00:03:24]

And so a few years later, I had three kids. I was still freshly sober only a few years in, and the only thing that was helping me at that time was getting to meetings. But I found myself just unable to get to meetings because I was too tired and because having young children is just who.

[00:03:45]

And so I just felt myself kind of slipping. And that started to make me feel scared. And I think I knew that I needed to have a place where I could use that really honest voice that I only felt able to use in recovery meetings.

[00:04:03]

And so this one day I was passing my computer and I saw this thing going on on Facebook called the Twenty Five Things. People were just listing twenty five things about themselves. And I thought, OK, maybe I can do that. I can make a list, I can do that.

[00:04:20]

So I sat down and typed out my list left and came back a while later and I opened my computer and there was something like thirty six new emails and I looked at my Facebook page and this little list from my personal page had been shared all of these lots, too many scary amount of times. And so the only way I can explain it.

[00:04:41]

OK, here is my number seven that I just typed out on Facebook. My number seven was I'm a recovering food and alcohol addict, but I still find myself missing booze in the same twisted way we can miss those who repeatedly beat us and leave us for dead.

[00:04:57]

Mm hmm. OK, which is true.

[00:05:00]

But my my friend, Sarah's number seven was my favorite. Snack food is hummus. OK, so so what had happened was I didn't read anyone else's lists first. Right. So you were just immediately Florina, right.

[00:05:20]

I was shut. Right.

[00:05:22]

And I felt just so what they call vulnerability hangover just oh my God, how do I get it back. Like what have I done?

[00:05:32]

But later I started reading all of those emails from people, and I'm telling you, they were from people that I had known forever.

[00:05:43]

But I realized I have never known them before because they were telling me things that they had never.

[00:05:50]

Oh, Glenn. And, you know, my husband's so depressed and it's been ruling our lives for a decade and I don't know how to get help. Oh, Glenn. And my marriage is in shambles, but. Oh, Glenn.

[00:06:01]

And I've been like and I just realized, oh, we are so busy trying to act perfect that we're not bringing to each other the things that we were actually meant to help each other. So I think that was the moment where I felt like like I have this thing which is kind of unlock people and make them feel less alone. So that's when I think I figured out this this issue that I'm having. That seems like a weakness in some circles I could use as a strength.

[00:06:35]

Well, yeah, it seems to be paying off for you.

[00:06:38]

And yeah, I have I I've gone through my life, especially in the past seven, eight years, where I've thought, wow, I've really shared so many personal parts of myself and it's really been empowering and and it's helped people. And then I sat down and read your book and I thought, oh, my gosh, I'm. I feel like I've only scratched the surface of my vulnerability and my honesty, and it is really it's been very inspiring and exciting to examine, especially to think about what I was doing before 2012.

[00:07:24]

I was walking around just so protective of myself and my life and my story and my family and everything and and didn't didn't realize what was potentially out there for me.

[00:07:42]

I love it. I feel like whenever this is what I always translate, when someone asks me for advice, I always translate it into my head that no matter what they're asking for, specifically, what they really want to know is I'm not alone.

[00:07:58]

Right, yeah, right. Tell me a story that proves to me that I'm not alone in this thing.

[00:08:06]

Yeah, they're just looking for a connecting point. Yeah, sure, yeah. Yeah. Now, in reading Untamed, I kept thinking about how many. Highly intelligent people. They've been through eating disorders, divorce, coming out, becoming sober.

[00:08:30]

What beyond this life experience gave you the super power of insight?

[00:08:39]

Well, I've lived a weird Venn diagram of life, right? Like I was a really a very sick addict for a very long time.

[00:08:49]

And now I'm. Very healthy Iowa, I lived a straight hetero life, now I'm in a same sex marriage, I lived in this Venn diagram of Christian and then feminist, which are supposed to kind of be opposites in many ways.

[00:09:08]

So I don't know, maybe that unlocks something.

[00:09:11]

Yeah. Just living in all these different spaces and trying to find out what's true in all of them and what's not true in all of them.

[00:09:19]

Glenanne Already we've learned you've you've been through a lot dealing with addiction, bulimia, a lot of brutally difficult things.

[00:09:30]

And how how and when do you let someone new like a new friend or a new partner know all the rough stuff that's in your past? You have a way you approach that.

[00:09:41]

I'm just a big fan of telling the truth as quickly and as often as possible so that we eliminate the wrong people efficiently.

[00:09:54]

I just don't really believe this idea that we have to have a lot of people who like us.

[00:10:00]

That seems like a rule that somebody made up that we haven't thought all the way through. Right.

[00:10:04]

You know, like what's the point of having a lot of people that you have to text back and you have to like, remember their birthday, like, really there's like a billion people in the world or ten billion or I don't I'm not good at numbers, but a hell of a lot of people.

[00:10:20]

It's a lot it's so many people. Right. Yeah. And so the point should be like eliminate all of them but like five.

[00:10:28]

Well that's what I always even though I don't respond very well to clinginess, I do understand it because I always talk about how just how gigantic this planet and solar system is and so many people that live here.

[00:10:46]

And then you find somebody that you connect with, it's like, yeah, you're going to grab on and hold tight.

[00:10:54]

And so I do understand it. I just don't know. It has to be mutual.

[00:11:00]

So I do understand because it's it's there's so much going on that when you feel hurt and you feel seen, man.

[00:11:10]

Yeah. Hang on. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:11:13]

So the goal doesn't have to be make everyone like me make this person comfortable. The goal maybe is to just find the right people.

[00:11:22]

And one of the thing that helps you is just to tell the truth and see how they react.

[00:11:27]

Yeah, it definitely weirds things and people out quickly.

[00:11:32]

Mm hmm. Glenanne. I admire so much of what you have to say, and I'm so glad to have your help as we dive into our listener question today. Do you mind if we get started? Let's do it. Let's do it. That's why you're here. Yes.

[00:11:49]

Yes. Let me get to my job. First up is friendship break ups. This question comes from Lucy How do you gently stop being friends with someone, especially those that may have a negative impact on your life, but you've known for so long, it's hard to get past them. OK, well, first of all, I think we should have better definitions for friend, right? So like someone who has a negative impact on your life, maybe actually not a friend.

[00:12:28]

OK, I have some children, and I think that being a child is so incredibly hard.

[00:12:35]

And one of the reasons is because they don't get to choose who they hang out with.

[00:12:40]

My kids will come home and talk about this person in their class who just sucks. Too bad they got to sit with them for eight hours. They got to be on the bus with them.

[00:12:50]

It's so weird, right? Kids do not get to choose who they spend time with.

[00:12:55]

And then we grow up and become adults. And there's a lot that sucks about being an adult. A lot of things, the jobs, the bills, the stuff. But the one thing that does not suck about being an adult is that we actually do get to choose who we spend our time with.

[00:13:12]

Mm hmm. I have this life policy that anything that makes me close to losing my shit because my only real job on Earth.

[00:13:24]

Mm hmm. It's just not cast. Is this podcast right? First for first podcast. First answer when take calls. Correct. And second is to not lose my shit. So if there's any relationship or schedule or anything else that threatens my peace and sanity, it just goes, it just goes.

[00:13:46]

I'm all for that.

[00:13:47]

But here's here's what I do want to interject about this. Great is I have a friend who I've known since childhood and we have moved to different cities together. We've I have a little gaggle of friends and we've known each other forever. We've been there for each other. Good, bad move to different cities. One went to college. We all went, one went here, follow their dreams. We you know, we've had this little group and one friend in that group I've had such a deep closeness with.

[00:14:30]

And also very deep issues with I don't remember if it was I don't think it was an argument between me and my friend, but it was a frustration, an old issue I had.

[00:14:44]

And I know that she had her issues with me, too. And I was far from perfect in that relationship. And I was I I was so frustrated that I thought, you know what, I think it's time to move on.

[00:14:58]

And I confronted her and I shared all of my thoughts and feelings and I was expecting a very horrendous end.

[00:15:14]

And she responded with. I can see that and I am so sorry. And I'm going to work to change that, and I'm telling you. I am so glad I had that conversation with her and I've had people that I've had conflict with in my life where I don't have a history with them in the way that I do with this friend.

[00:15:45]

And when I see just horrendous behavior, I don't have enough of a history with certain people to get involved and care enough and have those hard conversations.

[00:15:57]

But this particular friend, man having that all out, I think it made us both really reflect. But again, those others that just happen to like but it's like, no, please take your garbage elsewhere because. No, thank you.

[00:16:14]

Yeah. Well, thanks for writing in, Lucy. Our next question involves pastries, politics. That question after the break. Our show gets support from talk space change is always constant, but these days it feels like there's something new to grapple with every day. We may be adjusting to this new normal, but it's still stressful. Talk space online therapy is here to give you support because we all need it right now. Matched with a licensed therapist from the comfort of your device and reach out 24/7.

[00:16:54]

Whenever something's on your mind, you'll hear back daily, five days a week. Talk space therapists have experience treating depression, anxiety, substance abuse, trauma, relationship issues and much more. The bottom line is that we all need someone to talk to and talk space wants to give license support at a price we can afford. My listeners can get one hundred dollars off. Your first month on talk space to match with your perfect therapist. Go to Talks Face.com or download the app.

[00:17:27]

Make sure to use code. Don't ask to get 100 dollars off your first month and show your support for the show. That's Don't Ask and talks Face.com don't ask.

[00:17:40]

Tig is here for you with a little advice and a little humor. This is a public media podcast that means we're powered by you. Keep the laughs and the questionable advice going give now at don't ask Tigan donate. In her new podcast Come Through from WNYC Studios, cultural critic Rebecca Carroll speaks with guests including ICRA, Brittany, Peconic Cunningham and Robin D'Angelo about how race is at the heart of the issues we face as a nation and what it means for our future together.

[00:18:23]

Come through with Rebecca Carroll is available wherever you get podcasts. All right, our next question is from Elliot. One of my office mates is an outspoken right winger. She comes into the office every day spewing disinformation and conspiracy theories that she heard on Fox News, probably in parentheses. I argue with her sometimes when her ridiculous claims cross a line, like when she said the coronavirus was a hoax. But the problem is she often brings in delicious iced sugar cookies and homemade strudel and chocolate cupcakes to share with everyone in the office.

[00:19:18]

Should I eat the treats offered by such a person who represents every vile flaw in present day humanity? Does taking a cookie she brought for the group indicate a tactic?

[00:19:32]

I'm sorry, I don't know. That word is a tacit never heard it before.

[00:19:38]

I'll be 50 in March. I've spent forty nine years not hearing that word.

[00:19:43]

OK, I'm going to use the word though, like I know that. So prepare yourselves.

[00:19:49]

Does taking a cookie she brought for the group indicate a tacit acceptance of her bigoted attitudes?

[00:19:56]

Because I really want the cookies and cupcakes. OK, I have no personal story that applies to this, but I can see myself in this situation and I know exactly I can feel exactly what I would do and I would walk up to the cookies and cupcakes because I would want them to Ellie and I would pick one up.

[00:20:19]

And I would say, although I know in my heart we differ greatly politically, we seem to agree on what is delicious.

[00:20:35]

Thank you.

[00:20:36]

And then I would walk away and I would eat a cupcake and a cookie. And I think that that would probably break some ice and some tension and maybe make your work environment a little.

[00:20:50]

Easier, yeah, I agree with that, but I also just feel really angry a lot of the time because unity without like equality or justice is just bullshit.

[00:21:04]

Absolutely. And I'm not saying that.

[00:21:07]

I think in my mind, it it's kind of similar in my mind to the importance of coming out because somebody knows you now.

[00:21:19]

Yeah. Yeah, I hear that.

[00:21:21]

And so this person knows me now through the cupcakes and cookies. Mm hmm. Listen, what do I don't have?

[00:21:31]

We've already we've already established that. I'm just trying to get the cookies. Yeah. No, no, no. Fair enough. You know, I mean, I feel like most of my life in Naples, Florida is this situation where I don't mean it's just conservative. I mean, it's Trump, though, right?

[00:21:46]

So Trump signs in all of the yards on our street just that you place there that I put there just because I like being in trying to build a bridge. Yes, that's right.

[00:22:01]

And what's the balance between not feeling like you're lecturing people all day, but not feeling like you're allowing space for dog whistles for this little insidious talk that is made comfortable in social situations when nobody does speak up? Right. So this is this is what our family does. We wear t shirts and this sounds so stupid, but I'm telling you, it has worked for us.

[00:22:37]

Like, we will always be wearing either Black Lives Matter t shirt, some kind of gay t shirt, because everyone sends us their gay t shirts. So we have closets full of just, I don't know, just gay t shirts, OK, rainbows of things. So that way, just by our presence in circles, we can let people know don't start that shit because this is not safe here. Right. But we can still smile and do the whole friendly thing.

[00:23:08]

Yeah, it's weird, but it has worked for us, so maybe we could just get a t shirt, a gay t shirt and just went to work and.

[00:23:17]

Well, I, I think that's a great idea, especially forcing Ellie to come out of the closet. All right. Well, I think we solve that problem. I think we nailed that one. Yeah. Yeah. So on to our third question, Glenanne. This comes from Addae, OK, I have two girls aged five and seven. My husband's family still loves to purchase my girls clothes, but they always buy white clothes. I suck at laundry and I can never get whites clean.

[00:23:49]

The result is that the clothes are often used once before they are ruined. How do I ask my in-laws to stop buying my kids white clothes?

[00:23:58]

OK, I feel like my first reaction to this story. Yeah. Is that and this is a ridiculous thing to think. I shouldn't be thinking this, but my first reaction is this is this person's first marriage. OK, let me explain. Is that OK?

[00:24:19]

So Abby and I sometimes think, OK, we both had first marriages, lots of things that we would we could have done differently to make them work, to survive.

[00:24:36]

So often we will say, OK, let's second marriage this, let's not first marriage this. And when I what is this person's name? Who wrote to us about the children?

[00:24:45]

Addie. OK, Addie. So when I think about Addie, I think this is going to be something one day soon that you really wish you didn't worry about.

[00:24:57]

Number one, a lot of people would kill to have. And in law, anybody who's sending your kid shit like that's actually really cool and nice, you know. And secondly, it makes me worry that Addae is. Feeling like. Her parenting has to be perfect to me, like the children don't need to have white white clothes. Well, I think that first of all, if you could see the circus that's going on at my house, it's just a real pandemic's circus.

[00:25:35]

It's very mixed matched. And it's very I I am somebody that as much as I love that. Our kids enjoy putting bow ties on and certain things like that, and I just they they look so adorable I can hardly handle it.

[00:25:56]

I also love it when they pick out the worst outfits and are parading around in just just.

[00:26:10]

They should not they should not be wearing half of the things they're wearing. But there's something pretty amazing about it. What also comes to mind is you could gift somebody else, those clothes, the the white clothes, if you don't want them or dye them a different color.

[00:26:27]

And that's that's all I'm thinking with in-laws, too.

[00:26:31]

I'm telling you, I just think you have to pick it to pick your battles.

[00:26:36]

Right. Like if you spend all of your confrontation on these dresses, what's going to happen when you don't want to go there for Christmas or or Hanukkah or whatever?

[00:26:46]

You're going to get a lot of white. That's right. And you're going to go because you used up all your anger and your pickiness on the dresses.

[00:26:56]

Well, good good laundry luck to you, Daddy.

[00:26:59]

And since we've tackled our listener questions for the week, I thought it'd be fun to respond to a plea for help from the past.

[00:27:07]

It's time for advice of yesteryear when Jerry brags about taking Jenny out. He learns that she dates all the boys. So, as we say now, menstruation is just one routine step in a normal and natural cycle.

[00:27:25]

How do you choose a date?

[00:27:26]

Well, one thing you can consider is, look, I did everything you said, but my boss still hasn't asked me to lunch. We're a little late with an answer, but maybe we're still helpful. I don't know. We'll see. This question comes from Dorothy Dick's advice column circa 1929.

[00:27:48]

Dear Miss Dix, if your hair was frightfully thin and people noticed it and you were horribly sensitive about it and dreaded standing up in the middle of a room at a party where people didn't know you, and if your mother had made you self-conscious because every time she looked at your head, she sighed, what would you do? Would you tell your future husband and throw yourself on his mercy? Oh, my God. Nineteen twenty nine. OK, so I just have some more questions before we talk about this, this person is there's no chance we can contact them.

[00:28:31]

There's no one alive. OK. Nineteen twenty nine.

[00:28:35]

And I mean, she's married or maybe thinking of getting married. Should this this this person's know.

[00:28:42]

So take. Yes. Does she has has she not just her future husband. Not seen her head and gotten good. Very confused. I, I this is I have no I wish I had more information.

[00:29:00]

OK, there's so many layers that are missing so to speak, with layers that are missing on her head and in the story. Yes. I mean this is somebody that has sadly not connected with somebody deeply. No. And wait until you hear the answer from. No, I don't want I don't I do not want to hear I'm scared to hear your answer. I don't want to hear what this person said. Because if this person focused on her hair or on what to say to the future husband, I will not be able to deal because what this person needs is therapy.

[00:29:35]

She needs to be reparenting. She might need some antidepressants. But what did she say? What's the answer?

[00:29:44]

Well, I only want to tell you the answer, because there's a word in here that I'm just not familiar with. And I. I love it so much.

[00:29:57]

OK, and it must be clearly. A word for something else that I think I know the word I don't even I don't know. This is here's the answer.

[00:30:08]

OK, I would buy me a transformation and make no apologies about wearing it. What is it for me?

[00:30:20]

Is that a wig?

[00:30:21]

Well, I'm assuming it's not a spiritual transformation, which is what we would be recommending. I bet it's a freaking toupee or a wig or something. Right. I would buy me a transformation.

[00:30:34]

This is how old this is a trick. I mean, can you imagine if somebody was saying, my hair is thin, what should I do? And your advice is say you buy a transformation. OK, so you buy a transformation.

[00:30:46]

You make no apologies about wearing it, OK? And and I wouldn't tell my future husband anything about my transformation. The chances are he will never notice anyway. A woman's hair and her complexion are a mystery. By the way, listeners gluttonous mouth has been agape the entire time I've been reading this.

[00:31:10]

A woman's hair and her complexion are a mystery between her and her mirror and her own trade secret that no one else has a right to know.

[00:31:20]

I cannot imagine having treated myself to a transformation and that Stephanie would never know that I had treated myself to a transformation.

[00:31:34]

So the advice is it doesn't matter what you do, because no matter what, your husband will not notice it.

[00:31:40]

Well, just I can't tell you how much this dead person is going to appreciate what we did for them, but I do hope that the people of today hear loud and clear. Do not get yourself a transfer.

[00:31:59]

No, no. Any time up, show up with your thin, balding head or your hairy monkey, whatever part of your body, and embrace it.

[00:32:14]

We did it go on. And that was our last question. Yeah, we fix the world, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:32:22]

Well, those are all the questions we have time for today. That was a weird literary figure.

[00:32:29]

It was sort of test it of, you know, it's very tetes it. Well, those are all the questions we have time for today. But we want to hear from you and answer your questions in future episodes. So go to Don't ask Tig to send your questions. You can write them down. You can send them in as a voice memo. Again, that's don't ask Tiggs to reach us with your questions and comments.

[00:32:57]

Glendive, we are sadly done, but I am just I'm so happy we got to do this over Zoom and I cannot wait until we can double date. We can hang out.

[00:33:09]

Maybe we could have a zoom double date. That would be amazing. All right.

[00:33:15]

Well thank you so much for being on here and I'll see you on on Zoom. Zoom. I'll see you give my love to Stephanie in the kids.

[00:33:24]

Yeah. Same to Abby and yours. Your kids. OK, bye bye bye.

[00:33:31]

One last thing before we go. The hosts of my old podcast, Professor Blastoff, are reuniting for what we're calling the Official Friends Reunion, which will be a streaming live show with the three of us, me, Kyle Dunnigan and David Hunsberger together again on August 11. Check our websites and social media for any details. See you there. That's where Joe. Don't ask, BTIG is hosted by me, Tig Notaro. It's produced by Thomas Willette Maryknoll and Tracey Mumford.

[00:34:44]

Our editor is Phyllis Fletcher, executive producer Lauren D. Engineering and Sound mixing by Eric Rachmani, digital production by Christina Lopez. Talent booking by Rocky band Lulu Duban, our theme music is Brendan BTIG by Edie Brickell and Kyle Crushin and listen to your heart by any univocal special thanks to Hunter sideman Lily Kim and Alex Shaffer. Our executive consultant is Dean Capello and Gobsmacked Studios. If you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate and review us. You can always ask for advice on Don't Ask Tig, just write in with your problem or send us a voice memo.

[00:35:33]

You can also follow us on social media, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram at Don't Ask Teq, Don't Ask. Tig is a production of American Public Media and is always a very special thank you to Dana.