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To get a look at the people in places we're talking about in this show and to find out how you can call or email in a tip, visit our website. Down the Hill podcast, Dotcom. So much of what we do, we have to evaluate and analyze, right? I mean, there's there's business perspectives and business models and metrics, and I hate all that stuff. I hate it all because we don't really know the positive effect on so many people, like those two little girls that are going to view life differently now than ever before.


And then the circle of life happens. Then they have children and you are what you witness as a child. Right. So what does that really mean over time? I think there's a lot of good that will come of this. I think so. And I've noticed it up there in that community. I've I've every time I get an opportunity to talk about that community, I do. You can't walk down the street without being being grabbed. Hold of or thank you.


Are waving at you with all hands. With all fingers. You know, when you when you when you drive through there, you can't go anywhere without somebody saying thank you. That's pretty cool. That happen everywhere else. By now, you're probably asking yourself, how is there not been an arrest, given everything we've learned so far?


It's an understandable question. So let's catch up.


School is out. The day that Libby German and Abby Williams were murdered, that was widely known. It was a planned day off. They went for a hike on the mountain high bridge, an old railroad bridge that hasn't been in use since the 80s and has seen better days.


At some point, after crossing the portion of the bridge over Deer Creek, they encountered their killer. We know that because Libby took out her phone and started recording video in a still from that video, we see a man wearing blue jeans, a blue jacket and a brown hoodie.


His face is difficult to make out. And at some point in that encounter, he orders them to go down the hill, words that were recorded on Libby's phone.


We know that Hill is at the south end of the bridge. They walked on to the bridge from the north.


We don't know how, but the killer and the girls crossed back to the other side of the creek, not far from where they were dropped off. That's where their bodies were found almost a day after they went missing, about a quarter mile from the bridge.


Investigators have been very, very, very tight lipped about the crime scene. And even now, more than three years later, they still haven't released most of the details.


We don't know how or when they were killed and we don't know why. All we really know is that whatever investigators saw out there, it shook them badly.


We recently learned new details about that crime scene. The killer left at least two signatures there. If he kills again, we're told that those signatures will most likely be at that scene, too.


We're also told the crime scene was odd, strange words seemingly connected to what those signatures were and the possibilities we think of when we hear that our probably way off all this gives us some insight into the type of killer we may be dealing with and the nature of the crimes he committed.


More new mysteries in this story. There always are. Who did this? What happened out there that day?


Why is this crime not solved? Police are also examining this Snapchat photo, it was taken just before both girls disappeared. I made the announcement that the girls have been found and that was marked to a good end.


We are investigating. This is a crime scene. We suspect foul play.


Law enforcement is saying that one of the girls actually took video on her iPhone. They say it was right before she was murdered. It's amazing that we have a video. We have a still photograph. We have sound. We don't know who this person is. It could be half of the white males in Carroll County to the killer who may be in this room. We likely have interviewed you. We know that this is about power to you and you want to know what we know.


One day you will know this is down the hill, the Delfi murders.


I'm Barbara McDonald, along with Andrew IDN, we just ran down the major details up to this point in the timeline, it adds up to what simultaneously seems like a lot and practically nothing in our last chapter. We learn new details about the crime scene and the pictures gained a little more focus from this point forward with a few very notable exceptions. The police circled the wagons and goes silent for a while. There's a lot to put together here, and the pieces can fit in a number of ways to get a sense of the what, though it's essential to understand the way the place matters here a lot.


And we want you to feel that, too. So in this chapter, we're taking you to Delphi, to the woods, to the bridge. Part one we caught up. Yeah, I wouldn't trade small community life for anything except for the day that this happened. You just look in the eyes and that was the only thing that this community talked about. And now whenever you Google Dulfer, you just punch in Delfi the first thing that comes up.


And now that's a part of our community and it is a part of who we are now. Delfi, Indiana, is about an hour and a half northwest of Indianapolis, it's the Carroll County seat and an easy drive to Chicago, two hours if you're up for a Cubs game.


It's a small Northeast neighbor to Lafayette. They're the home of Purdue.


The Boilermakers downtown is divided by Washington and Main Streets. And a beautiful old stone and marble courthouse sits where the two intersect.


Up and down Main Street, you'll find plenty of beautiful old buildings hosting Delphi shops and restaurants and books.


This is a Carnegie Library. I mean, this is a library that was built in the early nineteen hundreds and has seen a lot of expansion and it's a great place for kids to come. I brought my kids here, you know, when they were little four puppet shows and storyteller.


Julia Lahey is the executive director of the Carroll County Chamber of Commerce here in Delphi. It's her job to get people to come to town. She's lived here her entire life and is a good person to give us the lay of the land.


Delphi is a quaint, small community that has a lot of interesting things to do. You're so close to the bigger cities. I think people like to live here, visit here because it's that small town, slower pace, you know, and you can escape the hustle and bustle, the bigger cities. But you're so close if you need those big city amenities. What are some of the big landmarks for places? Some of the landmarks here were home of the Wabash and Erie Canal.


So there is a one mile section where you can actually take a canal boat ride and kind of live like you did in the eighteen hundreds. And that was entirely built by volunteers, the center, the park, the trail system. Another thing that was more recent about six years ago was the Delphi Opera House. And so that's been interesting for people to come and see performances back in the early nineteen hundreds with James William Riley.


What are the people of Delphi like? People of Delphi are friendly. You know, it's it's not unusual to walk down the street and say hi to to people greet you that way. And I'm sure you have found that to it's the way they say hello. If you look lost, they're going to stop and say, what can we help you with? We're very we're a close community is how I would describe us.


Do you think that people outside of this area. To Delphi with this crime. How do you mean? Well, I mean, is that something you come up against as you're promoting this area when you say I'm yes. From Delphi? Yes.


What do people say? Exactly. So for months on end, when I would travel and go to conferences and things like that, they want to know where you came from. I would say, well, my I live and work in Delphi and it was an immediate reaction. And even to this day, it doesn't happen as often. But people like, oh, yeah, I remember what happened there in Delphi and even from a tourism point of view.


And when you Google Delphi, are you Google things to do? And I mean, that's what's coming up. You know, it's sad that we're known for that now. And I hope people realize that there's so much more here. And you can come here, enjoy a lot of things, but also still know that you're in a place where people remember fondly, you know, about these girls.


So it's, uh, it sounds like there's a resiliency to the town. Yeah, a good that's a good point. I think people here are strong. The kids were strong. You know, my niece was the same age. And it just they have come through this. You know, it's sad that they all had to grow up so quickly that day. And but you see them people are close. You know, people are closer together. I think you're willing to help your neighbors out even more than what you ever were before.


But there's still this. This people are just more cautious, more suspicious. They look over their shoulders, which people probably already do in bigger cities. But here we didn't we didn't have to even have to lock your door. You didn't have to worry about that. And now stuff like this didn't happen here. No, it doesn't happen here. And it's like we caught up to the rest of the world in the most horrific way possible.


Now that Julia's giving us an idea of what Delfi is like, let's get out into the county and look around with all the pictures and video you may have seen of where the crime happened, the trails, the woods, the bridge, it's easy to assume all that is in a remote area far away from everything.


It's actually a short drive from downtown. It's only about five minutes or so. We got in the car and headed that way. All right. So we are approaching the parking lot now for, in fact, right here. This sign indicates this is the parking lot for the modern on Highbridge.


Three hundred north is a narrow country road. And as far as the story of the Delfi murders is concerned, it's our main backdrop. And we're that day in February. Twenty seventeen began.


So keep going on this road. And what's going to happen is we're going to go under the Hoosier Highway here and then the water tower should be up on the left once we come out from under here. And we're going to be making a right turn at the stop sign, so, yeah, the water tower is right there to the left we go right. That's Barbara giving us this mini tour of the area. She'd been here twice before as part of Helen's reporting team.


I'm driving. And Dan, our producer, is sitting in the back now. This is 300 north this road. Yes. And so over here on the left, this is the Mears farm. This is where a lot of the law enforcement and even the families came and parked here because this was the entrance. So here's the Red Gate. You can see it now up on the right. There's not much of a parking lot here, which is why it was a drop off spot and not really a place where people parked.


So right here, this is exactly where the girls went into the trail and they walked just a few minutes down there and to the left, right, and then walked down in these trees that were seen to the right of us now. Yeah, I don't know if these are soybeans growing here or what this is, but this is a big agricultural area. And as we go further up where those trees are, that should be where the cemetery is.


And that cemetery is one of the landmarks because it indicates the crime scene, crime scene was just down from the cemetery, closer to the creek. So we're also approaching Ron Logan's property. Correct? On the other side of the cemetery is where his land begins. And then he owns quite a bit of land down by the creek as well. And as we're looking to the right, that is where the bridge and the creek and where the girls were.


This is Ron's house here. It's pretty house. Looks like an old house. Yeah, he's lived there for a long time and he owns quite a bit of land back here. I don't know how many total acres, but it's a lot. Let's talk about Ron Logan, if you've done any Googling about this case, you've probably seen his name in just about every complicated high profile murder. There are inevitably people who become part of the story because of circumstance.


That's Ron. The killer left Abby and Libby on a piece of his land and a whole world of attention landed on him.


We've attempted to reach him several times and invited him to be on the show, but he wasn't interested. Back in February of 2017, though, he gave plenty of interviews, guided tours and looks at the freshly cleared crime scene to journalists. Aisha Horan was a producer for HLN and got the full run Logan took her to. Here's a little bit of that. So where is the Highbridge?


And I'm wondering how you think there's a tape of this interview. Oh, no, I can get down here. This is Steve. I know. So how because of that, how what are the entry points like? How would someone actually you're seeing so someone would that this is the only way. Well, you could walk down here. You got it. You go somewhere in the area. The girls were found. I'm not sure what location they were actually laying in the family.


And the German girl came here the other day and put some flowers down there in a particular spot. So maybe they know more about this. Probably so. Other than coming through your property, though, how much my children ever hear. The other guy begins in the big ravine and.


Before we move on, we need to say this, Ron has repeatedly denied any involvement in this crime. He has never been named as a suspect. And as far as we can tell, he's not a suspect at all. He's just a guy who's been caught up in the massive undertow. This case has created another victim of circumstance. Just a reminder that our website is a great place to see some of the places we're talking about maps, pictures and video await you at Down the Hill podcast Dotcom.


Pardon to turn around here, we know that Ron Logan's property is where, as far as we know this crime ended, but where it started, that's not far from Ron's house.


The Mears farm is directly across the street from that red gate where Abby and Libby were dropped off. We parked there along with the person who drove them that day, Libby's sister, Kelsey German.


We're about to go into those same woods and walk the path the girls walked.


But before we do, we need to explain what you're about to hear. We've actually been to these woods twice, once with Kelsey and once with ISPCC Superintendent Doug Carter.


One was there for the beginning of the story and the other's intent on being there for the end. We visited the site of the crime with both on different dates and starting with Kelsey will be moving back and forth between those moments and perspectives as we make our way down the trail towards the bridge where all of this started.


So the Redgate wasn't here at the time? No, it was actually just a sign that said Monan, Highbridge, kind of where that tree is like where the end of the fences. And then it was just open and you could park there and go in and the trails and it was easier to get from Highbridge to here that way to walk, because now the official entrance is like a quarter mile or so away from where we are. Yeah, it's a very long walk from hybrid to Freedom Bridge, but from here to the bridge, much shorter.


A lot shorter. Yeah. Out here. Lots of lots of times.


And you said the last time we spoke to you that for you the woods will never be the same. I still feel that way even when I'm at home in my own woods. Yeah, I think it was I think a lot of people feel that way. There's been a lot of violation here from the freedom and sanctity of a real place to the perception of safety and security. We want to most parents in this area, we can drop their kids off here anymore because she saying this is the path that you watched your sister walk down.


Yes. And how far did you watch them walk? Until I couldn't see them anymore. So it was probably a little nasty streak. How different is this area? Look, in the winter. In the winter, it's it's like no weeds. So it's very dark. But you can see so much more into the trees. It's just as pretty as it is. So now let's talk a little bit about the logistics of coming out here and searching for two girls when you don't know where they are.


Right. It's almost impossible, really, to get your arms around that. This is as rural as it gets in anywhere in the country. Really. It's rolling it up and down. There's not much straight ahead in the trail. It was quite a task. It was quite a task.


And and the search began just as it's starting to get dark about 4:00 in the afternoon or so. Yeah.


Did it complicate things for you guys that this is such a volunteer community and when people heard they just came out and started searching on their own?


No, no. It was awesome. It was awesome. Now that the obviously the end result wasn't good, but there was nothing compromised by them doing what they did. So some people have speculated that we've heard an estimate that maybe there were a thousand people out here searching that first night and that that did, in fact, contaminate your crime scene.


I don't know. You know, there's all kinds of speculation. It's easy to have an opinion when you don't know what you're talking about. You know, it'd be different if once the girls were found, that would have been completely moved. That's not the case. I don't agree with that statement. With so many people looking for them that first night, why weren't they found? I think I'll leave that question unanswered.


We are approaching the area where the girls entered the trail and there is a trail marker there that's become a bit of a memorial. What does it mean to you?


This intersection is tough for me. I've always be tough for me. I close my eyes. I can see in the distance here, you know, I can see. From the left side over here and laughing and joking and cutting up like two young girls do probably, or walking quietly or walking, having a conversation about whatever, and then they turn left in, the world's about to change. You know, so many people, I'm not afraid where they are, but for those who remain in thinking, man, man, they just turn right, you know, not left.


So, yeah, this is a pretty special place, you know, in that bench. And like you say, the beauty up there is some there's a reason this all happens or is yet just don't know what. And I just don't know what it is. I don't know. Is that to the girls, sometimes I always check to see if there's something that he could have left here, like maybe he left a note for them or maybe he left Iraq that he painted or something because he could have.


So I just always check the notes when we come here and the notes on our grades and things like that. What do you think he would say in a note? How would you recognize that it was an item left by him? I don't know. I just feel like if it was from him, I would know just by looking at it. I feel like he'd be really sneaky and try to do something like that. What did that sound like?


A poem? It says, love is so strong that it will guide your way and everyone is still looking for the cowards that draw you away. So keep smiling and guiding us all down below where we love you so much that you're so beauty and love will never grow old. Do you think there could be that element that he's he's watching? He's he's that close now? Probably, yeah. Yeah. Whoever it is and whoever it was has stared at this nature reserve saying just like we are right now.


I know that even his first day he stood right here. Stood right here. Yeah. When you would go out to the crime scene, what is that like? It's very peaceful and you guys probably haven't been out there, but it's just in the middle of the woods and it's just the most peaceful place because you can watch the creek and just sit there and think about the the nature that's around you instead of what happened. Do you feel like that area is secluded?


Is it an area that he would have known that I have privacy here? Probably, yes. You can't really see anything. You can just barely see the bridge and you can see all of the water and just nothing but trees. So I don't think anybody would have hurt them or him or anyone else. We're approaching the bridge now. What do you see as you look at it? I can see him standing right out there. I can see him standing right out there.


I feel the same way every stinking time I come here. Gosh, you know, you look back this way and you see them walking here. You can see you can see Adrian Levy just doing the what girls do. Yeah. The guy on this bridge is gone. Do you think him approaching them on the bridge was intentional or is that just where he caught up with them? Well, you know, that's a good question. I don't know if it'll be speculative.


Nobody knows right now. I don't know. Gosh, I hope we can ask him one day and hope he'll tell us and then be free. Let's walk up here closer. Right. That goes right down or it goes right down. Nothing good is going to happen. That's like, what? Seventy three feet. This was gone then two. That was gone then too. So, you know, for the I mean if those would have been my girls then I would have found out later.


Krause's I say, hey, what are you thinking? What are you thinking? We talked to a lot of people who have crossed the bridge who say the first time they crawled. Yeah, I've heard that, too. I've heard I've heard that, too. But I've also talked to people who've ridden ATVs across this. Oh, my gosh. Do you think that Libby took that video intentionally because she was concerned or was she already recording video when he approached?


I think she did what she thought she could do to identify who this person is and to thank her for that one day. Yeah, yeah. I think she realized something was really badly wrong for whatever. I don't know what I don't know why. We don't know what led up to that. We don't know what interaction there was. We know a little bit more than what we have talked about. But there's a lot of detail in that engagement that we don't know.


Can you put like a percentage on how much of the story you feel you understand now, ma'am? I thought about that before. That's right, that's my answer to that question. That's a tough question. We know a lot about before and after, but there's a lot about the middle that we don't know. So I would I would say two thirds, about a third in the middle. It makes beginning in the end. Makes sense. Yeah. I mean, Libby came out here a lot to take pictures and think this is really cool.


We have a lot of really cool trails in Dulci that are really fun to explore and lock down. And it's really sad that we can't do that anymore without feeling safe here because we used to be able to hang out with that. The day that you dropped off Libby and Abby, you did see other kids out here, right? Yeah. Other kids that were like Libby's age were here. And I knew that a lot of my friends were out here, so I knew it would be OK or thought it would be OK.


So do you think this was the kind of place that on a day off from school that a lot of people might think there might be some kids or people out at the Highbridge? I mean, I'm sure people knew that there would be kids out here, especially if you lived here. You knew that people would go out and go on the trails when they had a day off. Most of the time we would go during the summer and I would absolutely not want to cross it, but I wouldn't let her go by herself.


So I would cross it because she wanted to. She wasn't afraid of crossing this bridge. Libby wasn't scared of anything except needles and anything that caused pain from the time they're little feet hit that very railroad tie right there. And we know they did what happened between here and there. And then that initial engagement with the murder, what happened? So they were on the far end of this bridge when Libby took that video. Yeah. And Abbie was still on the bridge.


As you said before. You think that maybe he knew this area well enough to know that's a very vulnerable place over there. Mm hmm. Why? Well, the bridge is really scary, and I wouldn't cross it had I not known what it looked like. And so if you don't know what it looks like, then you would you wouldn't know how vulnerable you are when you're on it. So I definitely think he took advantage of how vulnerable they were there at that moment.


What do you say to the people who are frustrated? It hasn't happened yet. I understand that. I wouldn't say I understand the people, but I understand. Yeah, I understand. Do anything you do anything to help people close this chapter?


You know, one of the things that we kind of talk about within a story is when you don't know what happened. Usually the simplest explanation is, is what happened. When we find out what happened here, do you think it's going to be simple? Is it going to be the simplest explanation? No, I don't think so. And that's just my own personal opinion, because it's it's just complex. It's from from what happened down there to what happened over there.


It's complex. And there's not a simple explanation, you know, I mean, if you and I were standing on this bridge and you pushed me off and I died, simple explanation. Right? Right. Or I jumped. Simple explanation. Tragic.


The simple explanation is something that's nothing. Part three between here and there, so now you have a good chunk of the picture over these last few hours, you've heard what happened. You've heard the information the police want you to know and some of what they probably don't.


We've given you the lay of the land and brought you to the trails themselves. You know what it's like to stand on that bridge from here on out. It's all about the puzzle. There are a lot of theories and speculation that begin to work their way into this story because of the geography who came and went from where and how. A lot of that has to do with the places we've already shown you and talked about in the places we're about to bring you.


Now, this is important, though. None of this theorizing or speculating is coming from the police. It's from everyone and everywhere else, family, friends, locals, journalists, the Internet for Drew and Dan, their first time exploring the area brought many, many questions it probably has for you to let's get back in the car and work through some of them.


When I was going to ask is, do we know if there's any thought to where the perpetrator began to walk on the trail? That's the million dollar question. Nobody knows where he came from and nobody knows where he went to when he was done. All we know is that he was on the bridge because we have video of that. Nobody knows where he came from, where he left to, and there are so many possibilities. Did he walk here?


Did he come from one of these properties and simply walk? Was he a trucker who perhaps stopped on the Hoosier Highway and found a way into the trails from there? Was he parked at this abandoned CPS building and out for a walk? Apparently, that was an area that people would sometimes leave their car if they were out here walking, if it's close to here that the actual crime scene was right. Yes. So it's 50 yards from here from 60 yards.


That's 50 yards towards the creek. If the maps line up, it should be this far line of the cemetery here should match up. If you were able to do a straight line down 50 yards, that's OK. So it's down here. It's just down there. Yes, it has. This fencing always been there? I believe it happens. And you can see that if you did go this way, this would not necessarily be an easy rock.


Barbed wire around the barbed wire is right where there's fencing. And then there's just also I mean, the forest is very thick here. The ground is very uneven. There's trees that have fallen. There's ravines. That was also the problem that the searchers had. They're out here at night. This area would be relevant as his point of egress, perhaps. Well, one theory is that if this is a person who's local, who knows this area well, a lot of people come here and hunt and fish and he may know multiple ways in and out of this area.


I think one theory early on was that perhaps it was somebody who had access to Ron Logan's property since the girls were found on his property and that maybe it was somebody from there who went down. Apparently, Ron Logan has horses and is kind of known in town as a guy who lets people come and hang out on his property and ride his horses, perhaps lets people hunt on his property, that kind of thing. So there there are young guys who come to his property on a regular basis and everybody in these farms and like in those silos and grain silos over there, employees are being questioned.


As far as we know, there is also somewhere over to our right west of or east, rather, of where we're located. There is a packing facility. And apparently cops went there and checked everybody out there. Because also one of the theories is that the video that Libby took with her phone, the man is wearing a blue jacket that some people say looks like a work jacket, especially if you work in a plant where there's cold storage and right back and give me, et cetera.


Right. And some people believe he was dressed too heavily for the day because the weather was rather warm. And he's in what appears to be a heavy jacket with a hoodie underneath. Some people also think that perhaps he was just hiding things in his clothing, perhaps a kill kit or weapons of some sort grabs whatever he thought he might need. This is the direction that Derrick drove to come and pick up the girls. And there's a bridge just a few minutes down here.


And that's where he was when he made the first call at 311 to say, I'm almost there. And Libby did not answer. You can see bits of the creek down here, but you can see how steep some areas of this are. There are areas that it flattens out. A lot of people have asked about the area where the man sent down the hill and how steep is that? What police have told me is that it was walkable. It's a little on the steep side, but it's not something that you would have fallen down.


It's something you could have walked down. We just saw those pickup trucks. Was there anybody out hunting or fishing? We don't know. There probably were. I know that searchers and family members have said that as they came to begin searching, they did see people who were just out enjoying the day, hiking, walking, taking pictures because it was warm. It was it was like the first warm day of the winter.


Right. People want to get outside. And yes, it was sunny. The sun was out. People were excited about spring and wanting to get out. And Deer Creek, from what I understand, is a very popular place to fish, very popular. But they encountered him on the bridge. Yes. Which direction do we know? It's virtually a rocky we tough to tell. It is tough to tell. The belief is that when Libby took the video that she was on the far end, the south eastern end of the bridge, walking backwards and walking away from where they came in and that.


That part of the bridge is the well, as Kelsey says, she thinks that he knew they were trapped there, that once they're on the far end of the bridge, there's very few places to go. It's it's not the same as on the the front end of the bridge. That's part of the official walking trail, the far end of the bridge. There's no trail there. There's no path. You're supposed to turn around and come back. He directed them down the hill.


I know for the life of this picture. The killer often returns to the site of the killing and just wondering if the police sticks in those wildlife that. I imagine they have there are a lot of people who think that perhaps this killer stayed around to. See what was going to happen as people discovered that these girls weren't where they were supposed to be, that maybe he even blended into one of the search party was going to say or the return to the crime as a search searcher.


Right. Either he came back and participated in a search or perhaps staged participated in the search and was able to leave that way undetected. A common thread of murders like this that don't have, you know. Frequently occurrence is that the killer often revisit that scene again and again and again is reliving it. Every every living it is is is the gratification, isn't it? Yeah. And this entire area is very popular with hunters, people fishing. So it would be easy for somebody to return undetected.




As you just heard, the more you see, the more you learn, the more questions you find. That's one of the frustrating things about this case. There are parts of this mystery that just don't add up or make sense. And as you try to pull it together, all you have are brief moments, flashes of what happened and where, you know, they're important. You know, they connect, but you don't know how. And just as you feel, you haven't figured out that you have a hold of it, it slips away.


Soon, though, investigators will give us a lot more to think about, but the complete picture, who did this, what happened out there and how is it not solved? That will remain just out of reach. Next time on Down the Hill on the subject of pictures, we're slipping back into this story's timeline. We're finally a new study, that phase.


And you look at the sketch and you try to think about how old they are and and, you know, try to make it try to make some connection, a face.


What's the first lesson you learn in science? For every action, there's an equal opposite reaction. So that's our I think our in our makeup as human beings, we're trying to justify to rationalize.


Well, this happened. So this what is the cause? What's what's over here? What's the action that caused it? Well, that doesn't work with evil. It just doesn't.


What police will release is the action to just take somebody, you know, your neighbor, somebody you don't like or somebody you found online. And you think it looks like the sketch. We don't allow that.


And the reaction, that's its own story. Down the Hill is written and produced by Barbara McDonald, Andrew and Me and Semenovich with original music and scoring by Chevaux, Singer and production support from associate producers Michael Dudley and Kaitlyn Chassis. If you want to see the people, places and things we're talking about, visit our website. Download the podcast.


Dotcom Brian is HLN senior director of programming and Tyler Moody is the vice president of the Warner Media Podcast Network. Sherry Seldes is our senior production manager.


A lot of folks at HLN and CNN worked very hard to help make this show go. And we want to give a big things to them to also a special thanks to the people of Delphi and the members of law enforcement who are in charge of solving this crime.


And most important of all, we want to thank you for listening. We hope you join us next time.