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[00:00:04]

To get a look at the people in places we're talking about in this show and to find out how you can call or email in a tip, visit our website. Down the Hill podcast, Dotcom.

[00:00:19]

One sure quite what to expect when I walked out, but I got to say to the Delphi community.

[00:00:30]

I got to say to the Delphi community, how grateful I am, you you inspire people you don't even understand and you don't even understand why.

[00:00:45]

Information is being released today is the result of literally thousands and thousands of hours of extraordinary investigative efforts by Delfi Carroll County, the FBI, the Indiana State Police and countless other agencies in most of our chapters.

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The first voice you hear is Superintendent Doug Carter. That was him again.

[00:01:07]

What he just said, though, it's the start of an extraordinary event, a new and dramatic phase in this story, one that we're still in as we speak since July 17th of twenty seventeen.

[00:01:20]

When investigators released a sketch of the suspect in the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German Carroll County in Delphi have been doing their best to figure out their new normal. Families of Abby and Libby have funneled their energy into action. They've appeared on talk shows and gone to conventions, keeping that flame alive. And they've waited and waited and waited.

[00:01:44]

And now we're in April of twenty nineteen. It's been two years since the killings.

[00:01:50]

People in Delphi are dealing with nonstop speculation and rumors while trying to find rhythm.

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Living in a community now known largely for the worst of what's possible, law enforcement is starting to get asked if this case has turned cold. They insist that it hasn't. And for the most part, they've gone radio silent. But today, Doug Carter is about to change all of that. He's turning that radio back on. Police are also examining this Snapchat photo, it was taken just before both girls disappeared. I made the announcement that the girls have been found and the is not to a good end.

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We are investigating this as a crime scene. We suspect foul play.

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Law enforcement is saying that one of the girls actually took video on her iPhone. They say it was right before she was murdered. It's amazing that we have a video. We have a still photograph. We have sound. We don't know who this person is. It could be half of the white males in Carroll County to the killer who may be in this room. We likely have interviewed you. We know that this is about power to you and you want to know what we know.

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One day you will know this is down the hill, the Delfi murders.

[00:03:19]

Part one in plain sight. I knew that things were going to be tough. I knew I was going to get drilled. I knew the superintendent was going to get drilled. And we were the two main people that people were going to look at, especially when the superintendent wanted that excuse. The expression threw it out there. I mean, I could have done it. He did it. We all felt that it was better that he did it just because of his ability to speak and talk.

[00:03:48]

The Indiana State Police call a news conference which news conferences happen every day all over the place. You and I have worked in news long enough to watch. We've watched hundreds of them, oftentimes lots of the same things. Oftentimes, there's not a lot of new information, not a lot of activity out of these. Sometimes they're just a formality, right. This one couldn't be any different from that. Can you talk to me a little bit about when this came together, your call to get to Indiana, that kind of whole behind the scenes?

[00:04:22]

Yeah. So this is April of twenty nineteen.

[00:04:25]

So Easter Sunday, Susan and I flew up to Indianapolis, got a hotel room, and we were really thinking, they've got somebody right. They figured out who this is, they've got somebody and it's all over now.

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So they have this news conference in the Canal Center, which is kind of a community center of sorts. You know, for a gathering this size, it's a perfect venue for this because in addition to inviting the media, this time, they were inviting the public.

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They wanted everyone to come and they were being very clear about that. This is open to the public. Come and hear what we have to say.

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So the natural question becomes, what is it they're going to say? We're going to get out of the way and let it be Superintendent Carter, do the talking or playing this in its entirety. This is the entirety of what he said.

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Information is being released today is the result of literally thousands and thousands of hours of extraordinary investigative efforts by Delfi Carroll County, the FBI, the Indiana State Police and countless other agencies.

[00:05:42]

This community surrounded us some twenty six months ago, and you did everything you could to support us, but most importantly, you surrounded the family of these two little girls. Gosh, I'll never forget it. After you hear what we're going to release today, I'm going to ask for your continued support, your continued understanding, your empathy and compassion as as we move forward to find out who did this. And we will we're seeking the public's help to identify the driver of a vehicle that was parked at the old welfare building in the city of Delphi that was abandoned on the east side, a county road, 300 north next to the Hoosier Heartland Highway between the hours of noon to five on February 14th, 2017.

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If you were parked there, know who was parked there. Please contact the officers at the command post at the Delphi City Building.

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We're releasing additional portions of the audio recording from that day. Please keep in mind the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls. This is not two different people speaking, please listen to it very, very carefully. We are also releasing video recovered from Libby's phone.

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This video has never before been previously released. The video shows a suspect walking on the bridge when you see the video.

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Watch the watch the person's mannerisms as they walk. Watch the mannerisms as he walks.

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Do you recognize the mannerisms as being someone that you might know?

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Remember, he is walking on the former railroad bridge. Because of the deteriorating condition of the bridge, the suspect is not walking naturally due to the spacing between the tires.

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During the course of this investigation, we have concluded the first sketch released will become secondary as of today, the result of the new information and intelligence over time.

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Leads us to believe the sketch, which you will see shortly, is the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls. We also believe this person is from Delfi currently or has previously lived here, visits Delfi on a regular basis or works here.

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We believe this person is currently between the age range of 18 and 40, but might appear younger than his true age.

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Directly to the killer who may be in this room. We believe you are hiding in plain sight. For more than two years, you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy, but we have.

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We likely have interviewed you. Or someone close to you. We know that this is about power to you. And you want to know what we know in one day, you will. The question to you, what will those closest to you think of, they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls.

[00:09:57]

Two children, only a coward, would do such a thing. We are confident that you have told someone what you have done. Or at the very least, they know. Because of how different you are since the murders. We try so hard to understand how a person could do something like this to two children, to two children. I recently watched a movie called The Shaq. And there's also a book that talks so well about evil, about death and about eternity.

[00:10:59]

To the murderer, I believe you have just a little bit of a conscience left. And I can assure you that how you left them in that woods is not. It's not what they're experiencing today. To the family. I hope that you all will give them some time, because we're going to be asking that there's no media inquiry or no media response for at least the next two weeks.

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And I hope you understand why the family found out about this about this information this morning.

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I just want the family to know that when I take my last breath on this earth, I'll be thinking of them.

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There's going to be a tremendous amount of questions.

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I know that. I know that I've never in my career have I stood in front of something like this.

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Please be patient with us, please. We're just beginning. We are just now beginning. And I can tell you on behalf of the sheriff and the police chief, so many other partners that have stood with us over this period of time that we will not stop.

[00:12:41]

Doug Carter immediately walks off, no questions, Mike Drop and next to the podium where he was standing, there's a large easel draped in a red sheet.

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It had been there nearly two hours before the presser started, and what's on that is all isn't exactly clear, but it seems important.

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I just unveiled the person that we believe responsible for the murder of these two little girls. So I invite me to take a look at that now, Kim.

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That's Captain Dave Bursten. You've heard from him a few chapters ago. He was an ISP spokesman at the time. When he pulls that sheet down with the media and people watching at home see is completely new. It's a sketch of a young white male with curly sort of bushy hair, a large forehead and a prominent chin, almost what's called a lantern jaw. I think Jay Leno compared to the sketch police released nearly two years earlier. It is totally different, but they're not finished.

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We're also going to show you a video not previously released. The superintendent spoke to and also the audio that's additional to what's been previously released today.

[00:14:00]

A slight change on the video that plays out is less than two seconds. Remember the still picture released a few days after the murder? It's that one, only the video version, and it's from Libby's phone. The man in the blue jacket with blue jeans and a hoodie has something on his head, maybe it's the hoodie, a cap, maybe it's just his hair. But he takes two full steps on the bridge. And following that video, the Indiana State Police had something else from Libby's phone to.

[00:14:45]

So for 14 months, the town of Delfi is haunted by three words down the hill and now there's four with some static, some garbled in between. Right. And a slew of new information out of this news conference. And as it has all the period of time leading up to this point, there's ripple effects all through town. I mean, we thought that the conjecture and the speculation was crazy before. Now there's a second sketch and it's just going to increase tenfold.

[00:15:41]

Part two, the town secret, that was intense. I was there and I thought for sure Carter was coming off of that stage after somebody when he ended his sentence and he was done, he walked away from that podium like he owned it. And I thought, oh, my gosh, rich guy was dumb enough to show up here. He's going to go choke somebody out. That's actually what I thought. And everybody just gasped.

[00:16:11]

It was it was pretty unreal. Barbie, let's go to April 22nd, you and Susan Hendricks from HLN, who's with us here in the writers room, get a text message. Can you walk us through or learning about April 22nd? Yes.

[00:16:28]

So I was working on another show. I don't even remember what story I was doing that day. But I get a text message from one of my sources in Delphi saying, I can't tell you why, but you need to be here Monday. And so we went. Take us back to the room. And what was what was the feeling? What was the vibe? What was the you know, what was there tension kind of walk us through that.

[00:16:52]

You know, it was interesting because before the press conference began, it was very calm. People were talking. People weren't particularly nervous people. I think we're excited about whatever was going to be said. And then Carter comes out and his tone is very serious. He's passionate, he's intense. And the room just went quiet when he was speaking. You could you could literally hear a pin drop in there. What stood out to me when my stomach dropped was seeing the unveiling of the new sketch.

[00:17:30]

There was an armed guard standing near it. And when they took off what was covering the sketch, I was taken aback because the sketch, the person looks so young, right. I've gone back in this in my mind. I don't know if there was an audible gasp in the room when that happened, but I felt a gasp like if people weren't gasping, that was certainly body language.

[00:17:54]

Air got sucked out of the room for just a second.

[00:17:56]

When that happened, we had so much time because the family was being briefed, we were able to notice our surroundings and really take a look. And I did notice and officer standing by the covered sketch. So he wanted no one to come even near that to bump it accidentally. But when it was unveiled, I thought, oh, looks like a kid. Yeah. Even though Superintendent Carter had said, you know, he could be as young as eighteen to see the sketch and see what a young face that is was shocking, I thought.

[00:18:28]

Did he know these girls? Was he their friend? That's how young he looked. And vastly different from the original.

[00:18:35]

Completely different. When you watched the news conference, you can only see, you know, what's in the frame. But you guys were in the room. And I'm curious when especially when he said to the killer who may be in this room now, what was the feeling inside the room, especially at that moment?

[00:18:52]

For me, we couldn't get any closer. Barbara and I were sitting right on the carpeting, right in the front. We were on the floor. In the front, on the floor. Right in the front.

[00:19:00]

It was a packed room, media outlets, armed police officers everywhere. I did notice that and it was packed. We were in the front row and I thought in my head in this room, it took a while for it to really resonate with me thinking, oh, my gosh, he could be in this room. Took me a while for me to process exactly what he was saying. And there were a lot of people who, when Superintendent Carter and Sheriff Lisanby walk off and they leave, they left that room.

[00:19:31]

You didn't see them after that. I certainly thought they're going to get the guy like they are jumping in their cars right now and they are going to wherever this person is and they're making that arrest.

[00:19:42]

A photojournalist with CNN who was there with us said to me once I stood up and walked back in this room, in this here in this what is going on in this room, they were shocked. And they see a lot in here, a lot. And they were thinking, he's here. Right? Look, certainly they disrupted everything that day. This press conference just turned everything upside down. I thought what you thought that when he left they're going to arrest someone because a mention of that car also stood out to me without them making the model.

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And obviously, there is a wall of silence that we've experienced there because they don't want false confessions. That that silence also allows for a lot of speculation, so coupled with the new sketch, you've got the new audio.

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Did you notice during the press conference how much Superintendent Carter prefaced? It's the same voice. Keep that in mind. It is the same voice because they sound so different. They do. And I think the guys sounds very young, completely different than down the hill. Sounds like two different voices. He said it's one I use guys all the time in a casual manner. To me it says friendly speak. We also don't know just because they added guys just before down the hill.

[00:21:11]

We don't know if that is said in any particular order. They haven't given us any indication of that. We know that that all of that was said on the video that Libby made. But we don't know where in the video, how far apart it might be. And that was another element of the press conference. It was a little unusual. They invited the public, but they also took everyone's name as you walked in. And it was interesting because I thought, OK, if you really think he's going to be here, wouldn't you maybe ask for an I.D.?

[00:21:43]

They weren't doing that, but they made sure they knew you had to sign it. So that was an interesting part of the process. You don't normally sign in to something like that unless you're you're there for the president or someplace that you need a security clearance to get into. That wasn't the case, but they definitely were taking everyone's name. And looking back now, in hindsight, when you say something like that, he could be in this room.

[00:22:09]

He's from Delfi or he's worked here. He's been hiding in plain sight. The next morning, that was the cover of the newspaper Hiding in plain sight. And his sketch, when you say something like that, speculation, of course, is going to start right away. Why were they signing him then? Did you look at each door? Did you look behind you? What did you hear? What did you think? And then nothing and no arrest.

[00:22:35]

So the reactions of this news event are obviously fast and furious all through the community. They start with the families. Here's a little bit of what they said about that.

[00:22:46]

Well, it was a shock about everybody's mouths were hanging on the ground. You know, like at first there was there was anger because the first thing that goes through your mind is, are you kidding me? We have just spent two years pushing this guy, you know, and when they first said, OK, there's a new sketch, it took a little while. But after you think about it, after we thought about it and they had talked to some and you think about it and it's like, well, at least we know something's happening.

[00:23:25]

Something has happened. There's they've gotten some information or something that has changed where they're going. And to bring out this sketch so we know at least we're closer than what we were because they have to have something to switch everything up. So that's the only thing that I can hang my hat on. But if you if you really listen to it, it's like a different almost like a different demeanor of the person, meaning our guys. And then it becomes a little more directive down the hill.

[00:24:01]

And it's almost like the market say, hey, guys, what's going on today? You know, now I'll give you a directive down the hill. The person changed from being social to a directive. That's all. That's the only difference that I really hear in that.

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And when they changed from saying it was somebody perhaps 40 to 50 years old to somebody who could be as young as eighteen, would you think about that? I don't know.

[00:24:31]

The information, again, that they have that they're basing that on. And I'm hoping that they have information that would substantiate what they have said, which is eighteen, forty. But I think they left such a wide range because they don't want to get back into the corner, you know, per say, saying, OK, you said he was twenty five to forty five and this guy is twenty three. What had happened. Therefore, you know, they're just not allowed to do that.

[00:25:00]

I think they're going to leave such a wide range in age there for that purpose. Diane Erskin, Abby's grandmother, sat in the back of the room.

[00:25:11]

Honestly, I was shocked, I really was, because that sketch to me is a person who looks so much different than the first sketch that came out, although other people said, well, if you look at them closely, though, and overlay them, you can find some similarities. But I guess personally, I see one has facial hair. One does not have facial hair.

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One had longer hair and one had shorter hair.

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So that still, of course, opens the possibility that there was more than one person out there that day.

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And that's something we have to we have to entertain. I guess that idea that there could have been more than one person and that's why there are two different sketches, is that maybe there were two people out there. I don't know. I, I honestly don't know. I'm not sharing something that that we we've learned. I'm just saying we don't know.

[00:26:18]

The release of that second sketch isn't just spooking people, it's opening up whole new sources of speculation. A new sketch means new theories, new comparisons, and at and Libby's school that started almost as soon as the words left Carter's mouth.

[00:26:37]

Here's their friend, Erica Gibson again. People are already posting who they thought it was throughout our school pictures of local boys, teens, maybe that would have been like from like a sophomore to senior when they were in eighth grade. And I mean, immediately people started to throw people out. And I feel like it's not a bad thing if he's around here with just that much closer to getting him. I mean, that that they actually truly believe that.

[00:27:12]

Does it make you look at your friends and classmates and neighbors differently? Nobody in my class have I ever looked at differently or anybody who was a senior this year. There are some people in Delphi that I have looked at differently because they've always put off that vibe to me like a creepy vibe. And like I mean, everybody does. I mean, you see someone, you're like, oh, they're a little creepy, like. Oh, my lord.

[00:27:46]

There was almost absolute pandemonium. That's Lisa Delaney. She's standing at the grill in the kitchen of the Stonehouse restaurant where she's not only the owner, but also the chef. The announcement that Abby and Libby's killer is not only local, but possibly in the room Spook's not just the room, but everyone in town. I mean, people were like freaking out, especially when they said that they believe that they've already interviewed that person and they're here. That was I mean, it didn't create panic, but it was almost like I don't even know the right way to describe it, that people were like, we are going to find that person.

[00:28:28]

It was a new you know, if they're here still, he's going to be brought out that that was almost it wasn't a fear. It was almost more aggressive. You know, you can see that, you know, when people would talk about it in the grocery store and church in church, I mean, you'd walk into church right after and people were standing there. And there goes two of the superstars of golf by my brother in law, my nephew, when they would walk down the sidewalk or in church or in the grocery store and somebody would say they've already interviewed him and they know that he's still here, they feel like he's still here.

[00:29:01]

The fake the brows all went down. We're going to find him. And you see fingers, you know, doing one of these is like, OK, boom. I think we created what we intended to create. Right. So that was where it was that it was more rejuvenation of let's find this person. You know, I think there's a whole lot of confusion because a lot of people like that doesn't look at all like the first world wide.

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And so there was a whole lot of what is going on, you know, that kind of thing. And then they said, well, they really still want to find this person for questioning because they think maybe he could have saw the person. And it's like, you know, but there was a lot of like, where did this come from? You know? So if we have this possible information two years ago, is it possible that we could have seen the guy standing at the grocery store?

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You know, but I mean, that's they've kind of they handled it with more confusion, I think, than anything else. But there there is definitely a positive attitude. There's not a negative it's definitely a positive attitude about it.

[00:30:04]

Kelsey German starts getting phone calls from her guy friends telling her that's not me.

[00:30:10]

And this is very crazy for us because we all kind of trust each other since we all know each other. So even some of my friends were getting turned and they were saying, cause I promise this wasn't me. I didn't do this because they were worried that because they got turned in, I would think badly of them, I'm assuming. But I don't I'm I'm glad that they got turned it and were looked into. I love my friends, but I would turn them in if I thought they did it.

[00:30:39]

Amy Brown, Erica Gibson's mom thinks that the announcement that the killer may be local isn't really news to her.

[00:30:46]

It confirms what she's always assumed. I've always believed that was someone local just to just to know the trail system, just to be able to get away with it for so long, so to speak. I think he had to be someone local. And so for me, I think just hearing the words was like validation. But we've always thought that. So it's it wasn't it wasn't a huge shock to us. You know, it did make us make sure our doors were locked to an extra couple of times and things like that.

[00:31:18]

But overall, it didn't change much for us. And do you look at the sketches or the video stills from that video and you see anybody you recognize? I will be honest. I have sent in tips because you know what? No tip can go on unlooked at. And even if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. No harm, no foul. You know, I know that. So without telling us the person, what have you called police and said just, you know, somebody that matches the sketch or, you know, could resemble them, maybe some shady dealings, maybe, you know, more of a recluse, things like that that I feel like would be this person, you know, like I have my own profile in the in my head, you know, because we've not gotten a great profile of what this person could be.

[00:32:06]

So it's kind of, you know, you play around in your head and and you just one day I woke up and I thought, you know, what was that kid's name? That's and that's exactly what I did. I said, you know, and then as you go on, you know, you put things together. And I have some some some friends that were like, just send it in. And so I just I just did I'm like, it's not going to hurt anything.

[00:32:27]

If they talk to him, that's great. And it's not him. He didn't do any. That's right. And there's no problems. And I think that's how most of the people in town look at it.

[00:32:35]

This all makes sense to Mike Patte, too. I do think he's been here before just because of the layout of the of the land around there is. Hard for me to wrap my head around somebody being able to go to a place, that's what I try to do to myself, put myself in this person's shoes when I go to a strange place I've never been before, never been to and trying to pull something like this off. My gosh, that's that's that's a huge risk, you know, not knowing where you're going, you know, go down the hill and then you've got a creek involved.

[00:33:06]

And how deep is it? It's cold. It's February the 13th. The water's got to be, you know, lower and 40 degrees to go in over your head. I mean, so the person, in my opinion, probably has to learn a little bit about the layout of the property or the ground.

[00:33:23]

Cynthia Rossie, one of Abby's best friends, is coming to terms with the idea that the killer could be living nearby.

[00:33:31]

Once they said in the press conference that he was a local and he knew the area, that was just a weird feeling for me because Delphi's like this picture perfect town and the fact that there could be so much evil and it felt like this was almost like the town's secret, like the person who did this was just hiding in the shadows, waiting for their debut. And to them, maybe they feel like they've succeeded. But to this community, it's not a joke.

[00:34:05]

It's serious, and it's something that has just made our community stronger. Part three, a complex strategy, the simplest way for me to explain is it was a matter of the fact that our core group of investigators circling back around and saying. Plan A. to a certain degree, is not working. So let's let's rethink this. And, you know, fortunately, our investigators said, OK, here's this is plan B. Now that you know what was said at the press conference, which was a lot, which was a lot.

[00:35:07]

And now that you have heard how everyone's reacted to that, what we want to do is, is go through these new pieces of evidence and and really break down. What do we know about each of these things?

[00:35:22]

What we just heard from Tobel Lazenby, which was he described this as Plan A is not really working. So let's move to plan B. So the first question becomes, what is plan B?

[00:35:33]

Right. And one of the things that that we have encountered with this case, it's very easy to pay attention to every word that someone uses or to notice when they've changed a word argued over words. Exactly. And you can't do that in this case, because when you get down to that kind of minutia level of trying to figure out what people are saying, you just realize people are human. They make mistakes when they speak. They say things that aren't exactly what they meant to say.

[00:36:08]

They mispronounce words. We all do it. And so trying to pass words from investigators will make you crazy. So with all that said, we are going to take a look at some of the things Superintendent Carter said in smaller portions. So here we go.

[00:36:25]

We also believe this person is from Delfi currently or has previously lived here, visits Delfi on a regular basis or works here.

[00:36:35]

We believe this person is currently between the age range of 18 and 40, but might appear younger than his true age. So they think this person is from Delfi or may have been there, and that kind of makes sense when you go and see the area. Even Kim Riley said this person appeared to get around with ease. Yeah, that would indicate some familiarity. And who's familiar with that area? Probably somebody who lives in the area or maybe grew up there.

[00:37:07]

Why they wait so long to say that something changed, something changed.

[00:37:13]

During the course of this investigation, we have concluded the first sketch released will become secondary as of today. The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch, which you will see shortly, is the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls.

[00:37:36]

So there are now two sketches and they describe the old sketch as secondary. What's that even mean?

[00:37:43]

Yeah, this was a point of a lot of confusion for everybody in the room. A lot of people when they said secondary thought, oh, just toss it out, then it's irrelevant. And other people were like, wait a minute, does that mean that there's two people? It's launched a lot of theories. There's still a lot of questions about it. And we asked Indiana State Police Public Information Officer Kim Riley to explain basically from the information we were receiving from the public.

[00:38:14]

We got some information that this person was was seen there. Basically, we had information on the first one. We made the decision that we think that this one is more the second picture that's been put out that was put out in April is more of a scenario of who we think may be more involved. And we're not saying that the other one is not him with the information and we've gotten in tips and the interviews that we've we've been having over the last two years, that we feel that this face may be more what the subject looks like.

[00:38:43]

And so that's why we've kind of changed directions, went to this one and we're still pretty adamant that that's the person that we're looking for.

[00:38:51]

I frankly, I got some criticism for the second sketch and I took that. That's OK. I mean, that's all right. What criticism did you get? Oh, that we've had that for a while. And why didn't we release it earlier? And what else do you know? Why is it being so we're being so secretive. And my response to that is very simple. There's a complex strategy associated with anything that we do. We have to be thoughtful and respectful and shame on us if we wouldn't have done it because we knew we were going to face criticism.

[00:39:23]

So I welcome the criticism. They clarify the day after this press conference.

[00:39:31]

That the new sketch is actually not new at all. The new sketch actually they had had from the beginning. And was actually drawn up before the sketch that they released in July of twenty seventeen, the new talking point from Indiana State Police is that when this person is captured, he's probably going to look like somewhere in between the two sketches. And I know you don't agree with me on this. I see a lot of similarities between the two sketches, and I can kind of see where, yeah, maybe they are an older and younger version of the same person.

[00:40:13]

Not everyone agrees with me on that. Now, let's move on to the video.

[00:40:18]

The video shows the suspect walking on the bridge when you see the video.

[00:40:22]

Watch the watch the person's mannerisms as they walk. Watch the mannerisms as he walks. Do you recognize the mannerisms as being someone that you might know? Remember, he is walking on the former railroad bridge because of the deteriorating condition of the bridge. The suspect is not walking naturally due to the spacing between the ties.

[00:40:47]

You've watched it hundreds of times. I've watched it hundreds of times. What do you see? Not a lot. You see the man on the bridge take about a step and a half, right? The second and a half long clip of video. And it's no clearer than the photo that was released in the beginning. We still can't see his face. And him taking the step doesn't really show us a lot about how he walks because he's on this old rickety railroad bridge that you have to be careful where you put your feet right.

[00:41:26]

And Superintendent Carter says he says to focus on the body, not the face. He seems to think that it's the gate, it's the pace with which this guy walks that's going to prompt someone and the mannerisms, perhaps how he holds his hands, where his arms are.

[00:41:45]

One of the things that Superintendent Carter says a lot is if that was my dad, I would know it. And he's right.

[00:41:51]

If it is somebody you know, that what is a step and a half enough, they feel that if you know this person, that is enough. But again, like the sketch on what you use to get to the people who know this suspect, like everything, it's just not enough.

[00:42:11]

There needs to be more because this is, what, 40 frames? Yes, a second.

[00:42:17]

Just under 50 frames of individual images. That's less than two seconds. Yeah.

[00:42:24]

We're releasing additional portions of the audio recording from that day. Please keep in mind the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls. This is not two different people speaking. Please listen to it very, very carefully. OK, so we've gone through the new sketch, we've gone through the video, the audio, which is the other big new piece of information in this in this case. What do we hear, what do we learn?

[00:42:56]

We hear guys and then we hear something that we don't know what it is. And then the audio that we're familiar with down the hill, they were very clear to say in the presser that this is the same person speaking. So the same voice that says, guys, is the one that says down the hill. But it definitely sounds different. The guys sounds like it has a higher pitch, dare I say. It sounds a little friendlier down the hill.

[00:43:24]

Sounds like a command and order. But guys, sounds like maybe maybe the first thing he said to them, we don't know that.

[00:43:32]

We don't write and we don't know what order any of these words were set in. It could be a complete mismatch. You know, I've heard people talk about when you use the word guys, you use it for people. You know, I personally push back on that and say, no, I think people use guys often for people they don't know.

[00:43:52]

It's something that I think a lot of people say all the time. And to hear that, I think it launches more speculation about this encounter, how it happened, how it began, what he said to them, to the killer who may be in this room.

[00:44:12]

We believe you are hiding in plain sight for more than two years. You never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy. But we have we likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know that this is about power to you and you want to know what we know. And one day you will the question to you, what will those closest to you think of when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls, two children?

[00:44:47]

Only a coward would do such a thing? We are confident that you have told someone what you have done or at the very least they know because of how different you are since the murders.

[00:45:02]

This was the moment I think a lot of people thought, whoa, this was the moment that I thought, man, this is like something out of a movie, you usually don't hear that it was chilling and his intensity.

[00:45:14]

You felt that the minute he got up to that podium, you felt the intensity of what he was about to say.

[00:45:22]

So let's put all of the stuff that we've just talked about and all the stuff we've learned in context and perspective here. When we look at the information out of this news conference with the benefit of hindsight, that information. Isn't really new, that's all information they had in February of twenty seventeen early on, it is not for them.

[00:45:46]

Right. And that kind of goes to what Sheriff Lisanby said about this was plan B.. So when did this come into being was plan B always there? Yeah. Was this something that they had kind of had in their back pocket from day one? We don't know the decision to release this information. Now, why now by April of twenty nineteen, a lot of people thought that because of some of the religious things that Superintendent Carter said in the press conference, because this press reference.

[00:46:18]

The movie. Yeah, the movie. The Christian movie. Right. He also this was announced on Good Friday and they made sure to invite the public. The press conference happens the day after Easter. So is the Easter holiday significant? Is that why they planned this? They they don't say. And in addition to the date and the Easter holiday, we had already been in communication with the Patte family and had an interview set up for right after this press conference.

[00:46:50]

And then Superintendent Carter says no interviews for two weeks. So that two weeks they don't say exactly. My own guess is just they wanted the words that they used to be what was reported, what was in the media for two weeks. They didn't want the family's reaction to it to become the headline. That's my take on it. They haven't said whether that's true or not. From an investigative standpoint, this is the end of the line. This is it.

[00:47:23]

All the cards are on the table from the investigators. And for the last seven chapters, we've been working through this story, outlining this case.

[00:47:32]

And by now, you likely have your own theories at home. And so next time we're actually going to start outlining ours.

[00:47:44]

Down the Hill is written and produced by Barbara MacDonald, Dan Semenovich and me and handwriting with original music and scoring by Chevaux, Sir, and production support from associate producers Michael Dudley and Kathleen Chassy. Jerry Seldes is our senior production manager. If you want to see the people, places and things we've been talking about, visit our website down the Hill podcast Dotcom. Brian Bell is HLN senior director of programming and Tyler Moody is the vice president of the Warner Media Podcast Network, a special thanks to the people of Delphi and the members of law enforcement who are in charge of solving this crime.

[00:48:22]

And most important of all, a big thanks to you. We appreciate you listening.