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This episode of Everything Happens is brought to you by Booking. Com. Booking. Yeah. Book whoever you want to be on Booking. Com. Booking. Yeah. This conversation is sponsored in part by Peloton. You've probably heard me talk about Peloton because they are my absolute favorite workout. And spring might be a good time to recommit to a new exercise regimen. Regardless of what my schedule looks like, and let's be real, life is always busy, Peloton has a class that works for me. I love how their hit yoga and biking classes are all doable, different times, different music. And then there's outdoor ones that get me outside. Get a head start on summer with Peloton at onepeloton. Com. My name is Kate Bowler, and this is Everything Happens. We become the sum of so many people throughout our lives. We have her laugh or his nose, his dry wit or her sarcasm, their big heart or grandma's freckles, or it's that teacher who encouraged us when we need a boost. I actually have the identical voice as my best friend, and that's because I met her too early. And that's it. It's just baked in now. So if you ever hear someone exactly like me but lives in Winnipeg, congratulations.


You found my doppelganger. Some of the influences on our lives are great. And maybe sometimes we become who we are in spite of the people in our lives. Today, I wanted to talk to one of the funniest people on the entire planet about the people who made her, her. What virtue views did they create? What absurdity ensued? How does she think about how she impacts her own kids? It is a surreal day in my life, but my guest today is the comedian and host, Samantha B. Samantha She is known and loved for weekly late night comedy series, Full Frontal with Samantha B, which was nominated for basically every single award. She was a host on The Daily Show for over a decade. Her work has earned 18 Emmys. She is also the host of a popular podcast called Choice Words. She is actually, in fact, genuinely the funiest comic writer I have ever read. I want to crawl inside of her brain and lay eggs, which is not useful to her or the world. But Samantha, it is surreal and wonderful for me to be able to look into your gorgeous face. Hey. Oh my God, what an introduction.


It's like you're talking about somebody. I'm like, I want to meet this person. She does sound good. She sounds great. Bring her in. Where is she?


She, you, it turns out, since you grew up in the like, lower middle class, It's super highway to comic Fame. I know that roughly rural Southern Ontario is a hotbed. Was it even fair for you? I suppose we could start there.


Just so many advantages. You know what I mean? Like you want to just start. Exactly. It's such a place of privilege living in those conditions.


How do you describe where you're from? Because sometimes I go... Because people end up being like, it's like the Pittsburgh of Canada. It's like, which I think is Hamilton.


That's Hamilton. That's where my husband is from, Hamilton. I always say it's the Pittsburgh of Canada, and everybody instantly understands. Everybody totally gets it. I don't know how I describe where I grew up in Toronto. But all over the... Like all over the city. So there isn't even one area where I really identify with.


I never even say Winnipeg anymore. I just say, Have you ever seen where North Dakota is? And then I'm like, A couple hours up.


It's north of that. That's what I A similar landscape, except I do remember whenever I think about Winnipeg. And by the way, I toured there as a costume character in a little show called sailor Moon Live, and we spent many days in just Just entertaining the children of Winnipeg. But we ate so many meals in a vegetarian restaurant that was in a tree. Is that memorable to you? Because I mention it all the time and everybody's like, what Did you? You were on acid when you were doing Sailor Moon Live, and I'm like, No, it's very good.


It was a tree-born vegetarian restaurant in Winnipeg.


Yes, and I loved it.


See, now I need... I'm going there next week, and I'm going to ferret this out for you. Thank you. Because we do collect... It has the world's largest replica of a Van Gogh painting. Fantastic. It has the world's largest northern Lake Trout. I mean, we got- What?


It's dead now, but it's on a wall. It's just, I think- It's just, it was killed.


When I was discovering your life, your unique, your rarefied weirdness-Thank you.


You know what? I love that so much. I'm crying. I'm so happy to be here.


It made of really, I think, remarkable little constellation of virtues. So I wondered if I could ask you about different people that made you the, I'd say grab bag of eclectic joys.


I wish you would. I wish you would. Because when you were very little, you lived in your own apartment all on your own. I did.


Would you describe the independent spirit in which you spent your early years?


Oh my God. Well, my mom Okay. My mom had lived with her long-term boyfriend, and he lived in an area called Parkdale in this enormous house. It was so big. It had actually been a hospital. It was a veterans hospital. So all of these... And it was all... It was like a huge apartment, but it really was more of a rooming house. So once you left the central apartment Apartment, which was, I am comfortable saying it here. It was disgusting. When you left the central apartment, there were all these rooms with or without bathrooms, and some were individual apartments. It depended, and people had many, many people had recuperated from their war injuries and died. Or it was like a mini skid row in a lot of war. It just was like a very, what a melange. What a ghostly house it was. It was so haunted. It was just saturated with... I'm not even a really owie-ooie person, but this place was terrifying to me. My mother and her boyfriend, I was eight, and they were like, Why don't you just take... It was, first of all, let's preface this. I was born in 1960.


We're talking about the '70s when nobody cared what their children did whatsoever. Everyone was like, be free. I don't know. We're just- Come back if you want to, I suppose. We're roomies. Don't take my smokes. They just gave me an apartment up It was like the Belfry. It was like the Belfry. It was the Tuffy Top apartment. It had a full kitchen. It was gigantic. It had a full kitchen and a huge living room and a big bay window that I would stare out of. At all the other children. I'm playing in the streets. I was just alone in my Belfry with my record player, my Abba Records, and my pack of Tang, which I obviously ate straight from the envelope. But no bathroom. It didn't have a bathroom. So if you had to pee, you had to go down the hall, way down the hall. The terrifying hall. The terror hall. And I was comfortable in my own apartment and terrified of every inch of the hallway. And it was like multiple levels, too, like stairs and spirals, and it just went on forever. And so I would always eat or go to the bathroom in the main apartment, and I would have to run down.


So every time I left the apartment and locked the door, I ran full tilt down.


And that's how you became a professional sprinter.


And that is how I became. That's why I'm so physically, what a physical specimen today.


Yeah, I was like, sit down.


It's overwhelming. It's too much. But I just know that there were so many haunted spirits in that I can just picture it just like axes being thrown at me from behind.


It's like a full Indiana Jones.


Full Indiana Jones. Yeah. Every time, every time I would be sweating and out of breath when I would get to the apartment and they'd be like, what's with you? It was running.


We're going to take a quick break to tell you about some of the sponsors of the show. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. This episode of Everything Happens is brought to you in part by Booking. Com. Booking. Yeah. From hotel suites to romantic villas, with so many choices across the US, you can book whoever you want to be. Book a spacious vacation rental to activate family time you, or book a beachside resort to unlock relaxed you. There are so many possibilities with Booking. Com's wide breadth of US accommodations. I love to plan a fun trip, and I've got one to South Carolina coming up, so it was fun to take a look at Booking. Com's offerings. Maybe a get away to a new city or hole up in a cabin in the woods with some board games. Booking. Com also has some amazing deals on beachfront vacations as well. There are so many kinds of travelers in all of us just waiting to be booked. And with so many possibilities on Booking. Com, you could choose who you want to be every time you travel. This spring, check out Booking. Com for your ideal hotel or vacation home, no matter where you go in the US.


Book whoever you want to be on Booking. Com Booking. Yeah. Everything Happens is brought to you in part by Ritual. Start your morning with Ritual Stress Relief. Stress Relief uses first-of-its-kind technology to support the body's natural cortisol response, so you can take on the daily juggle. Okay, guys, I really like these vitamins. They have a really nice Synbiotic Plus, which is a three-in-one supplement that features clinically studied prebiotics and postbiotics. They smell like mint, which is pretty great. I take a Synbiotic Plus every day of my human life because gut health is really important to me, and I like how easy they've made it to support it. But I'm really excited about their new Stress Relief Bioseries technology, which is designed to optimize the release of a trio of clinically studied ingredients to help the body manage stress. The juggle is real. Don't just respond to stress. Get ahead of it with Stress Relief from Ritual. Get 25% off your first month at ritual. Com/everythinghappens. Start Ritual or add Stress Relief to your subscription today. That's ritual. Com/everythinghappens for 25% off. That's a perfect description of your kid brain and your strangely adult adult brain early on.


Yes. Because you had this... You had very adult knowledge about the world that I imagine made you feel not exactly like a peer. And yet you're My kid is 10, and he's in that dream boat. But also, please, could you open the closet entirely and turn it off? Turn the lights on and off one time? And let's just before we shut this down. But it's a strange thing to be a kid and to not know... To know you're not like other kids.


To know you're not like other kids. To be aware of all... It's so funny. I don't often think of it, but to be aware of every possible monster. You know what I mean? But not to really be able to parse what's real and what's not real. Because also, just our levels in the '70s of exposure. If you were left to your own devices, which I'm an only child, so I really existed in adult spaces most of the time. You just had this tremendous exposure to all of these wild ideas that you didn't really understand. Movies I would never let my children have seen at that age, and they were just on TV. Salem's Lot was on TV. We all knew about vampires because it was the only game in town. You were like, Well, let's learn about Nosferatu. I don't know. You're seven. You're ready. You're ready to learn about the undead? Of course.


One of the strange things I think about, especially raising, being an adult kid, looking at kids, knowing exactly how old you were and how radically different it is. Yes. Do you find that that independence... Did it give you a iron spine? Did it give you a feeling of independence later, or did it just make you have to really set your own dials of your own fears and what was real and learn to trust yourself differently as you came of age?


I think a little bit of both. I think it sets you up for adulthood in a way. You're definitely advanced. Just the things you think about are different from the other kids. I have always been really envious of people who have siblings because I always just wanted to have someone to bounce ideas off. You really don't have anyone to bounce ideas off, so you live with bad ideas for longer.




You live with bad ideas for longer. I could have used a little more friction. I could have used a little more kid friction in my life, like someone who would say no to me as opposed to... It was like benign neglect. I mean, I would think, I don't know this now. We were just like these Latchkey kids learning how to make spaghetti by ourselves. You know what I mean? So in a way, and I remain independent to this day, but I have to really... It really was a stretch to learn how people with siblings have arguments. Do you know what I mean? Yes. Does that make sense? It totally does. Because I never really knew until I was well into adulthood, that you could just have an argument with somebody, and it didn't mean that your relationship was severed forever. It was just part of the daily life of someone who was just used to having regular little fights. Fights meant so much to me. It was so monumental when it's really just a little thing.


Yes. Yeah.


Does that make sense?


It totally does. And just to have the... To practice the actual dynamic feeling instead of feeling like every fight is an event that creates this high drama or traject. It doesn't have to be. It just have a little give, a little bounce.


You couldn't have a disagreement someone that feels really heavy, and then you just walk away. I have three children of my own now, and they have fights all the time. And then they go away, they take three breaths, and they're back to being best friends again. It just happens. It's so organic for them, and I admire that, and I've learned a lot from it. But it took a really long time to learn those lessons about how to argue.


Yeah, because you didn't get that from friend-friends. I was also, to say, I was also a very just unpopular child. It meant it took longer. I mean, I was early teens by the time I found anybody who I could have that thought full argument with who would be like, Kate, you can't say something devastating, and then walk away, I know it's funny, but you can't say something devastating. Okay. That's fair. Oh, that's cruel. Got it. That's what cruelty sounds like.


Let me learn some limits. I didn't realize. Okay.


You do need to meet it beyond time or else you don't want to hang out with me anymore. Got it. Okay. Thanks, Chelsea. But it did take longer, I think, to develop some of the skills for intimacy.


Skills for intimacy. I like the way that you put... Yes. So maybe you learn how to make spaghetti sooner. You definitely do. There's things you learn, like survival skills. You learn those. You learn how to be alone, which is a skill, to do it well. But you don't learn intimacy in the same way. I think that's really... I'm going to onboard that. I'm going to onboard that, but you're totally right.


I thought it was remarkable how much your stepmom in your life took on the role of attempting to socialize you into a different child. She did. She was really hoping you might go outside. My dad has a theory that air conditioning was developed so that it's really It's defunct. It's no longer necessary. That's what the inside. It's already regulated. Why even risk it? I went on a run the other day. I came back and I was tired because it was a run. And he looks up at me.


He's like, What were you doing?


And I was like, Oh, I was just on a run. He was like, Oh, I wouldn't do it. If I was out there just risking my life.


Right. You have a finite amount of energy in your body. You don't want to expend that. Exactly. Don't do that.


But your stepmom was like, she looked at you, took one look at you and she seemed concerned.


She was concerned because I was like a little miniature. I also had my mom and I had my grandmother, and so I was just having all of this adult life. And so when I came to her, she came from a big family. She had siblings. She had a lot of fights and color and shades of different stuff and energy. And there was a dynamism, I guess, in her family growing up. She didn't really understand how a little girl could be like, Thank you. I don't prefer green beans for dinner. It was not really a choice. Choices that I was very comfortable. You've been making her like, I've been choosing my own dinner since I was two, sweetheart. Ordering in restaurants, this is not a problem. Of course, I'm having cook with my meal. That's what we drink in our home. And she had traditional ideas about what a child should do. And it was like, definitely go outside and play. Now we're going camping, and you're going to hang out with your cousins. And I was like, What are these foreign ideas? I have my books, and we're fine. Her?


She doesn't even sound like she was so dope. Let me picture her because when you describe her determination to go camping. She's incredible.


She's a force of nature, truly. She's such a good... We had a tent trailer, and it was the cleanest. It was before the advent of cordless vacuums. But I'm telling you, If we'd had cordless vacuums, we would have been vacuuming that thing. Just like, tip to tail every day. She was the things that she introduced, the outdoors.


She had 12 course campfire meals.


12 Of course, campfire meals, lots and lots of cleanup. We camped all the time. Not 100% sure that she actually enjoyed it, but she has that old-timey vigor. Do you know what I mean? She has her specific camping clothes, which include rubber boots and a nightgown and a handmade quilt jacket that she sewed herself. If there was a campsite, like adjacent to our campsite where the people were a little loud after 10:00 PM, she She got, she had this flashlight. She would march, like stomp, over to their campfire and shut their party down. And they were too afraid to... They were just too afraid to defy her. They were like, Parties over, guys. She said so. And she was like, Go to bed. This is ridiculous. There's children. Incredible. I love her.


Your ability to shame strangers does sound like it came directly from this legacy.


She's a shusher. She is a shusher. I'm less of a shusher, actually.


But you are an excellent, Oh, no, sir.


No, sir. Yes.


I'll have none of that guff.


No, thank you, sir. No guff. Geopolitically, thank you. That is true. That is true. I stand for no guff.


Exactly. You're a guffless woman.


That's right.


We're going to take a quick break to talk about the sponsors who make everything happen at Everything Happens. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.


Do you ever get hit with a cringy memory of your 13-year-old self out of nowhere and suddenly you're panicked, sweating and laughing at the same time? Don't, don't worry, don't worry. We all get that. It's because being an adolescent is one of the most visceral shared experiences we have as people. We want to talk about it. Join me, Penn Badgley, and my two friends, Nava and Sophie, on Podcrushed as we interview celebrity guests about the joys and horrors of being a teenager and how those moments made them who they are today. New episodes of Podcrushed are out now, wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, Everything Happens listeners. Julia Louis-Dreyfus here. If you've been moved by Everything Happens with the brilliant Kate Bowler, then I've got a show for you. Season 2 of my podcast, Wiser Than Me. I am amazed by how many people have told me that our show made them look forward to getting older. This season, we'll hear from icons like Billy Jean King, Sally Field, Beverly Johnson, Aina Garten, Bonnie Ray, just to name a few. All Hale, Old Women. Wiser Than Me Season 2 is out now from Lemonada Media.


You also had a lot of your grandma in your life.


I did.


And I really liked the idea that she was really in it to win it on all aspects of your life.


She She was. Yes, she was.


From your- Matching outfits.


Matching outfits. She bought me. I wrote about it in the book, but she did buy me. She was very fashionable. She was very together. She had a job. She was the secretary of the Catholic School that I attended, and she was always very put together. She was definitely a ground up person. She was like, Put yourself together and nothing can hurt you. She was like, Good shoes and a nice coat. You're going to be fine. Top and Bottom. Start with a top and bottom and then fill in the blanks. But be presentable. Do not be caught. Do not be in an ambulance with dirty underwear. Just set yourself up for success. She just was that person, and she had a job. She had a profession when lots and lots of other women didn't. She worked my whole life, and she was just smart and together and such a cheerleader for me. Yeah, she was Was she the big encourager in your life? Yeah, she was really the person who was... She was dedicated, just dedicated, because she didn't go to college, and my mom didn't go to college, and she was like, You are going.


You are going to I mean, in Canada, it's university here. It's college. But she was like, You are going to university, and I'm not going to hear. There's no other. There's no alternative. It's happening. Someone in this family is going to... We're going to create a legacy, and it starts with you. So let's go. And so there was never any... She never really gave me any. I never really wavered from that. She was the most ambitious person for me in my life.


It's weird how much it matters having someone set a standard for like, I can't go lower than that, so let's just do that, I suppose.


It's going to be more work to fight you on this. 100 %. And there was no real reason to fight it. It just was a constant. It wasn't even like a lofty goal. It just was a thing that you had to do in order to pass through the gates of adulthood or whatever. And she just saw it that way, and it was so clear in her mind. I was like, Oh, okay. I see. Let's go.


I have a really small family, too. I never really knew what other people did. They seemed great, good for them. But one of the expectations that it took me forever to realize that I had was that nobody else was going to make my life interesting but me. There There's never like, And then you'll get married and that person will give to you purpose. And I'm like, no future. I did get married, like, hilariously young. But when I was 15, when I met him, I was like, hey, so I'm probably getting a PhD. So if you don't really sign on to the school plan, it's going to be a little awkward for you. And then just moved on. And he was like, I remember exactly where I was standing when you told me I was going to university. That is so funny. I think that's because I mean, I had these standard setters that were like, well, I guess you probably better get on with it. No one else is going to make this happen.


That's right. That's amazing. Oh my gosh. I love that.


I guess what that kills me, honestly, because you're so delightful is that you didn't really get to... All this input didn't exactly contribute ever with you having peer experiences. You're still just wearing the version of the quilted vest and the sensible turtle neck and loavers to the school dance. You had a lot of input in your life, but you probably dressed, I mean, like the most polished 57-year-old bank secretary.


I dressed to my prom, and I am not exaggerating when I say this, and I have photographic evidence of it, and I can't believe it. I wore a pantsuit. I wore a kimono-based. It was like a literal outfit that you would have seen on the Golden Girls, and B Arthur was wearing it. It is slacks. There's no other way to... They weren't really pants. They were slacks. They were loose. Loose. Loose. Oh my Like a severe open point. Like a very relaxed pant. We're all used to that now. We're all like, Yeah, relaxed pants, of course.


But with a waistline.


We're talking about 1987. People were not The room was wearing tube tops and with big hair. And I was like, No, thank you. Some elastic waist pants.


I like the diaper look to be more on the outside.


Yes. Thank you. A flat heel. Thank you. And a tank top and then just a kimono, all in cream. All in cream with a jaunty scarf. The look on my date's face was It was the antithesis of sex. There's no way that you would look at it and go, I'm getting late tonight. There's no hope. No, it just says no. Every inch of the garment. And I thought it looked swish. I was like, this is... And my grandmother was like, I love your outfit. That is the cat's meow. I was like, Thank you for saying so. I agree. We shopped for it together. Of course, I chose a B. Arthur outfit.


I I like that you can describe the fashion years of the time as like, I'm going for more of a post-mental puzzle.


I need it to be loose. I need it to have air pockets. I need it to be able to flap the wings in case I need to cool down. You don't know if someone's going to ask me to foxtrot. I don't know what these dance is. What is it? A Sockhop? It was so off in every... I love it. I can't believe it. I wouldn't even wear it now. Nobody. And I'm 54, I wouldn't even wear it now.


But now I want you to because it sounds...


I wish. It would still fit.


There's no question. Can you do one recreation just for Halloween? Just one year. Dresses yourself.


Dresses myself in front. I did crimp my hair, and that was my only Yeah. That was my only period-specific detail. Crimped hair and a lady's pantsuit. Oh, my God.


The description of your teenage years Then it sounds like the wheels came off on like, Oh, I'll do what I want to do. Thanks. Yes. And I was especially interested, honestly, in the... Because you turned out beautifully. You just turned out so beautifully. Oh, you're nice. Thank you. But There were some bad faith actors in there. There were some bad actors. That had to write, that you had to figure out some way of excising them from your soul.


I did.


And I just wondered if you could tell me about that season and how you figured out how to kick them out.


Well, I had a very... I just met someone. I met a boy. He was truly, in a very cliché way, a very bad influence on me. And I was completely enchanted with this other way of living. He was a small-time criminal. I thought he was really cute, and I just did what he wanted to do. I just went all in on his hobbies, which included such things as crime.


Do you remember the crime stoppers ads? I do. Did you ever look at them and be like, Oh, my gosh, you're coming from me. That's me. Canadian neighborhoods. That's right.


But it was such a weird time because I participated in his crime sprees with him. I was not very good at it, but I was like a spotter for it. I can't even believe this stuff as I say it now. I'm so I'm ashamed of it, but I don't mind talking about it because it's just an interesting, just a a facet of who I was. He stole cars, he fenced stolen goods, he would take the money. We were through these humongous parties. We would rent hotel rooms. I literally would go into the fanciest hotel in Toronto. I had braces. But I knew how to dress it. I knew how to dress up enough that they would take me seriously, like the kid from home alone and just be like, My parents are waiting in the car. I'm renting this suite at the top floor of the hotel, and I just had all this cash. And they would just give me the key. They were like, Thank you so much. Go have a party. Miss it.


Mrs Bovadeer.


You seem like you know we're in the contours of a hotel, so please come on in and bring all your friends. And he was terrible to me. I would say that he He emotionally abused me for sure. Yes. And I was all in for a long period of time. I turned to I lost my friends. My family couldn't stand me. I was horrible to be around. And I don't... I mean, really terrible. But I also... It was a time... It was very interesting because I was behaving so badly, but not really taking drugs or not really doing any of those cliché things. I just was such an adult who was doing terrible stuff that they didn't really know about, and I just wouldn't come home. I just wasn't coming home until very, very late and not wasted, nothing like that, just in cold awareness that no one could stop me. Then, of course, everyone in your life tries to parent you. Then they're like, Oh, you have a curfew now. I was like, No, I really don't.


Strangely, I've reviewed the evidence.


If I didn't have one when I was 12, I definitely don't have one when I'm 15, so I don't think so. It was a brief interlude, and I was so unhappy. I was critically unhappy. I was skipping school like crazy just to spend time with him. I was so not present. I was just not myself because I'm a studious person, and I like to get good grades. I'm a nerd. I'm like, that's just who I am. So this was very, this was an outlier time, and I really panicked. I skipped all my Christmas exams. I didn't go to a single one of them. I hadn't studied. I was like, I don't want to fail. So I panicked. I panicked at the end of this time period. I had gotten zeros, and I was just not prepared to get bad grades. So I tried to break my own hand with a rock.




Yep. No. So that I could pretend that I had sprained my hand and couldn't write any of my exams. Okay. And I remember going into my mother's room at 2:00 in the morning with just a splint on my hand. I did not actually successfully break it. I sprained it terribly. It was immensely swollen. It was horrible. I mean, oh, my God. I just hit it on a bumper of a car with a gigantic rack. Then I went into my mother's room at 2:00 in the morning and I pushed her awake and I was like, I didn't do any of my Christmas exams. My hand is sprained. She was like, What's going on? I was like, Also, I'm switching schools. I forged her signatures, withdrawn myself from my high school, and enrolled at a completely different high school, and transferred over all my grades. And they never asked to meet a parent or anything like I just forged signatures and did it all myself and created. And then I broke up with my boyfriend and completely changed my life. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? It was honestly just like a hand of God moment where I just looked at my life and went, Everything is bad.


This is all terrible. This person is holding me back. I was just like, Oh, I don't want this anymore. He tried to be mean to me one day, and I was like, I reject you forever. Get out of my life. Never call me. Lose my number. We're done. And he could not... It really was a hand of God moment. It was like somebody put their hand on my shoulder and went, Stop it. This is not who you are. It saved me. I don't even know what it was. It was just like a force outside myself. And I changed my entire life. Went back to school, did well again, made new friends, created a whole new path. Yeah. Fully turned the page. Fully turned the page. Turned the page hard. And it was not easy because he became scary. Yeah, I bet. But it was easy in the sense that I had cut him out of my heart with much like a excision. It was surgical, and it happened overnight. It was just like the lights went on.


I imagine that is very encouraging for people who feel like they've given even their kids a lot of love in hopes that or didn't know exactly when to pump the brakes on other behavior, and then it spiraled out of control. But just to be like, But I still love you. At that time, were all the adults in your life still able to communicate their love, or they mostly just looked terrified?


They were terrified of me. I was terrified. I really was terrifying. I really, really, in a cashmere sweater set with pearls and terrifying at at the same time. But they were always loving. There's no... I mean, we've had so many different permutations of our family. We've been in all different stages of marriage and divorce and a long family legacy of breakups and all of these things, but there has been a consistent through line where I just really have always truly been loved and knew that. I definitely took those people for granted for a long period of time. But it was when the track righted itself, all the pieces were in place. Nobody believed me for a little while, and I don't blame them for that. I really don't blame them for that.


You met your husband young, too, in a very normal way. And I wondered a couple of things. When he came into your life, because I met my husband young, one of the things I learned from him was to fill in the gaps of some of the missing pieces I'd had in my earlier in the lonely years, in the I don't know how to fight years, in the like, Am I doing this on my own or how does this go? But it wasn't just have an extension of that, when friends teach you how to fight, when friends teach you how to be normal. Did he come into your life early enough that you were still very much a work in progress?


Very much a work in progress. Not a lot of successful. I had a lot of boyfriends, like or term, but none of them were... It's so funny. It's funny that we're talking about this right now because I was just writing all of this down in my phone on the subway on the way here, trying to articulate it. I was like, he was like sea water coming in to just fill up all those little areas of just not having no knowledge or like a deficit. He made me more a hole. I think he made me more. He made me a better version of myself almost instantly by virtue of him being a hole person and him just being a normal person.


But you didn't need to be normal. You were Sailor Moon. For people who don't know sailor Moon, I mean, a celebrity. You've been a celebrity for a really long time, I guess, is what I'm saying.


Well, if you followed the live performances at Cider Fests in Southern, local Cider Fests in Southern Ontario, The Prairies, what have you, Thunder Bay, then definitely huge celebrity. We met together as costume characters in the, as I've mentioned, the sailor Moon Live. It's theater extravaganza.


Sailor Moon was a cartoon June. It was on Saturday morning in the '80s, for sure.


It's still popular.


Okay. And she's still like a sexy cartoon robot-looking- She's a sexy sailor scout from outer space.


Now that we're talking about. She has a boyfriend, and his name is Tuxedo Mask. And that is how I met my boyfriend. He was in the B cast. Let's be fair. I was in the A cast. He was a filling guy. He was the filling guy. He was the filling guy. And we did not like each other or connect for a long time, for a while.


Can I just picture what a human woman or human extended teenager, young adult? Were you a young adult?


Not that young. Let's I wish I had been younger. Oh, no. I wish I was an adult woman. No, you're like, I was 41. I was in my late 20s. Were you in your late 20s? I was in my late 20s. And he... You know what? And I wrote this down on my phone today. I was like, You know what? It's like when you meet someone and you're at the rock bottom of your career, and they're there too, and you're performing at a Ciderfest, then there's nowhere to go but up. And we did. We did go up. We did. But we knew each other then. And if you can know and love someone then, when you're both putting a wig on, like when the wind is blowing and you're at the Bolton Ciderfest, you can love each other through almost anything.


You're taking questions from kids.


You're taking questions from kids, and it's like, What's your sailor sign? And you're just looking into each other's eyes going, I went to theater school, and I didn't think this was I thought I was going to play Lady Macbeth. And I'm like, sailor Moon is a Gemini, honestly. Just like, she was born on June fifth, and that makes her an Aries, or I don't know what I can't remember.


But somehow it feels, I guess, when you know the the strangeness of life and you know what it's like to be on the outside, that stuff really carries you into the present, into being able to see the inside-outsideness of things.


I like the way you're describing it. I think you're totally, you're totally right. Life is very serious. Obviously, things happen that are just crashing and terrifying. But if you can take a step back occasionally and have one of those moments where you're like, This is out of my own body. I can't control this. I love it. I'm going to remember this. This is going to be a great story. It is.


It's a great story. Yeah, I guess that's That's right. It's like seeing the story of it.


Seeing the story. Yes.


Samantha, I've had the absolute best time talking to you. Hey, I love this. Thank you for being my dream boat friend.


This was a dream come true.


I'm not someone with natural self-esteem. So when I talk to Samantha about the people who made her her, it reminds me of all the people who made me me. I I like to use a very specific analogy, so stick with me. But it's the analogy of flying buttresses. Okay, so my dad is a historian, and these are the kinds of metaphors that I grew up with. But building This could only get so tall without having these massively thick walls, frankly. There was a point in the medieval era where they just kept collapsing. Also, they couldn't have nice glass or fancy ceilings. Enter gothic architecture. Medieval architects understood that you need to build really thick walls to build a tall building, but then they just started messing around with it. What if you could build taller, thinner walls, walls with gorgeous stained glass and larger windows that let the light in? Well, you'd need some external support. Flying buttresses were engineered as support beams to provide lateral support for a fragile wall. Sometimes they would add a lot of doodly dads on them to make them extra fancy. When you're not able to be quite so tall and strong, maybe you need some flying buttresses, pillars who hold you up, who teach you how to fight or apologize or forgive or calm down or show you something that looks like honesty or intimacy.


They're who remind you who you are and that you're loved. The people who look at you and see you for exactly who you are and not just what happened to you. The other day, my husband's uncle, which is frankly, in my mind, my uncle, Uncle Kurt, was in the Sahara tenting, as he does, and he met a wonderful group of friends, and they had never met before, but they were traveling together. When he asked them what they were to each other, they said that they were flying flying buttresses, which makes me know they're actually my people. So guys, somewhere out there, if you traveled in the Sahara Desert with friends, calling yourselves flying buttresses, and you do not email me to tell me exactly who you are, I will die horrified. But I love the idea that there are groups of people out there who know how to love and support each other. So here is a blessing for all the friends who hold us up. And This is from my Book of Blessings, The Lives We Actually Have. God, you called me to love, but people are inherently risky. Telling my story, being known, asking for help, complaining again about the things I worry might sound cliché by now.


Shouldn't I be over it already? But something is happening when I am known. I am becoming stronger somehow. I am reminded of the walls I've seen holding up cathedrals, flying buttresses, engineered to provide support for a fragile wall, allowing them to be built taller, more stunning, more covered with ordinance or filled with stained glass, letting all the colorful light dance in. The walls would collapse without them there, but strengthened. They create something beautiful. God, when I'm no longer quite so tall and strong, give me those who hold me up and remind me of who I am and that I'm loved. Yes, I will get back up again today. Yes, I will get those kids cereal and help my parents with an errand. Yes, I'll go to work or come up with something better to do with retirement hours. I will try again. I know I will because someone else's absurd faith in me is fortifying. So So blessed are our flying buttresses, for they hold us up when everything seems ready to come apart, allowing us to face today, not because we're doing it alone, but precisely because we aren't. Thank you to all the flying buttresses in my life.


I do not deserve you. Now, dear listener, tell me, who are yours? I'd love to hear. Find me online at kate C. Bowler. And a big thank you to our incredibly generous and interesting and fun partners who make all things possible. Lily Endowment, the Duke Endowment, and Duke Divinity School. Thank you. We love getting to make things alongside of you. And this podcast is full of my flying buttresses. Thank you so much to my team, Jessica Richie, Harriet Putman, Keith Weston, Gwen Higgenbatham, Brenda Thompson, Iris Green, Hope Anderson, Kristen Bowser, Jeb Burt, Sammie Philippe, and Katherine Smith. Thank you. And we do it all because of and for listeners like you. Yes, now googling Vegetarian tree house restaurants in Winnipeg or you on your way to that difficult therapy appointment. You are our absolute favorite, and we are so grateful to get to make useful things for you. Make make sure you're subscribed to this show so you don't miss an episode. And while you're there, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. It means so much. In a promise, it just takes a couple of seconds. Or call us and leave us a voicemail at 919-322-8731.


Next week, I have the privilege of talking with Judy Woodrow, and she is just as curious and kind and warm as you might imagine. I can't wait for you to hear it. Until then, this is Everything Happens with me, Kate Oler. Freedom. Hi, I'm Paul F. Tompkins. I'm Lauren Lapkins. I'm Scott Ackerman. And together we make up the show, Freedom.


Freedom is a show where the three of us who are comedians and also friends. We all just hang out.


We tell stories about each other and about ourselves. We're constantly telling stories about each other. You got to be repalded. And we play games and we laugh a lot. It's just that simple. It's a really easy podcast. This is a pretty good representation of the show. It's actually exactly what it is, plus singing.


So listen to it now.


The new season's out.


Get it wherever you get your podcast.


Just go outside and scream, Freedom. Just like we do. Freedom. Hi, I'm Elise Myers. I'm a content creator and comedian. You might know me from TikTok. Why am I in your ears right now? Well, that's a great question. I would love to tell you. I have a new podcast called Funny Because It's True. On my show, I'll be interviewing comedians, pop culture icons, and also just people I find really funny. We'll be talking about the awkward moments that keep you awake at night. Because if you don't laugh, you cry, right? Okay, funny because it's true. Out now wherever you get your podcast.