Wandry Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of Ghost Story ad-free. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or an Apple podcast. This episode contains descriptions of violence and suicide. Please take care while listening. Okay.

Today's a pretty big day.

Yeah, we're going to meet our first one of the Americans, which is really exciting and I'm feeling quite nervous actually right now. It's a rainy autumn afternoon in London, and Annie and I are standing outside a studio waiting for someone to show up, someone who used to live in my childhood home on Queens Road. What are you nervous about? Well, I've spent so long thinking about this family and never really expecting I was going to be able to meet anyone from this family. But this is the first time that I'll have a person who slept on that top floor in front of me where I'm able to ask what it is that they experience. Here's what we know about the ghost of my childhood home. At least three families have independently experienced something they can't explain on the top floor and they don't know each other. First, there's me. There was a vase that would seem to move around my room inexplicably, and lights that would flicker on and off. The second family, the Americans who moved in after us, we don't know what they saw. The third saw a faceless woman, which is why I've got this crazy idea that it might be connected to the murder of my wife's great grandmother in the house next door.

Getting people who lived in the house to talk about the ghost, though, was proving harder than I expected. I reached out to everyone I could, got a lot of rejections. The message I got was that something had happened to them in there. They just didn't want to talk about it. I don't believe in ghosts, but it's been so difficult to get hold of these people. Some of them recoil from it. Some of them just don't want to get involved. Some of them are quite frightened. That has built up a tantalising expectation around what it is that's actually in the room. I had to know what the hell had happened in there. Finally, one woman decided to talk to me and she was on her way to meet us. It may be disappointing. It may be totally unlike anything I experienced, and I may walk away from this thinking, Oh, is that it? But I'm quite excited to be able to ask the question. From wandering in Pineapple Street Studios, this is Ghost Story. I'm Tristan Redman. Episode two, The Witness. What a life these celebrities lead. Imagine walking the red carpet, the cameras in your face, the designer clothes, the worst dress list, the big house, the world constantly peering in, the bursting bank account, the people trying to get the grubby mits on it.

What do you want about? I'm just saying being really, really famous, it's not always easy. I'm Emily Lloyd-Saney. And I'm Anna-Leon-Growfy. And we're the hosts of Terribly Famous from Wondery, the podcast which tells the stories of our favourite celebrities from their perspective. Each season, we show you what it's really like being famous by taking.

You inside the.

Life of a British icon. We walk you through their glittering highs and eyebrow-raising lows and ask, Is fame and fortune really worth it? Follow Terribly Famous Now wherever you get your podcasts or listen early and ad-free on Wandery Plus on Apple Podcast or The Wandery app. I do wonder if you would introduce yourself to us. Sure. Yeah.

Okay. My name's Sonia. I moved to London in 2006 because my family was living already in the Richmond house.

How old were you when you moved into that house?

I was 20.

Okay, so that was 2006.

That was just after you.

Moved out? That was just after my family moved out.

Sonia.

Is a member of the second family who had some experience in the house. And it was her dad who walked up to the house a few years ago and asked the question that started this whole thing off. Is there still a ghost in the top bedroom? Though Sonia didn't actually sleep in my bedroom.

I guess I could have chosen your room, but I think I chose the left-sided one. Is it smaller? It's smaller. Why did you choose it? I don't know. I guess it felt warmer to me. That other one felt a bit dark anda bit cold feeling.

What does that top floor look like? What can you remember about it?

I just remember coming up the top of the stairs and it's a bit creaky carpet. Then my room was the left one, wooden sluttered floors and the ceiling slanted. Then the room you had was to the right. I never went in there much. No one was in your room, so I just had the top floor to myself. When we had people to stay, they would stay in your room. Quite often, they would come down the stairs to breakfast in the morning and they would say, There's a weird uncomfortable feeling up at the top of the stairs there. They would comment on that quite often when we had different people to stay. That I now know is a feeling of haunted places. Because if we're talking about ghosts, experiences, I was a skeptic until living in that house.

Can you tell us the story of the first time you sensed that?

My experience? Yeah. My actual experience? Yeah. So I went to bed as normal, no problem. I remember waking up at must have been 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning because the window had blown open. I shut it again thinking it was odd because I'd never done that before and there wasn't that much wind. So I shut it and then went back to bed. But then it must have been another hour or I don't know how long I woke up because my bed was shaking. But not just shaking like even shaking. It was shaking like vigorously and then slower and then faster again. Like shake, shake, shake, shake, to the point where I actually thought, Is this out? How so old are my parents below me having sex? And it's like making the bed shake this figuracy. But then within about five seconds, my leg, my right leg, had extended outside the covers and was pushing against an invisible force, almost like trying to get someone off of me. And it happened without me. My leg was just out of the covers, pushing against it. And then I laid there thinking I'm too scared to run to the door.

I curled up in a ball and turned over. And within, I don't know, five minutes, the bed started shaking again. I couldn't make sense of what was going on. It was just as if someone was on the edge of it, pushing the wood base. And then I freaked out again because it was as if if someone is in the bed next to you, it creates an impression in the bed. So that's what happened. It was an impression in the bed next to me, and I rolled in. I was starting to roll into it, and I was freaking out. So I turned the other way towards the wall, curled up, and then I was too afraid to put my hand there to feel what I felt would have been a dip in the bed. So I just stayed there, closed my eyes, and then the impression left. And then I got the sense like I was being watched for about five minutes. But you just feel like there's a presence in the room with you, observing you.

I'm quite shaken by all that.

Yeah, I could see in your face. Yeah, I've like… I laugh about it now. I don't remember it feeling… It was scary at the time, but if it was that scary, I would never have been able to go sleep in my room again. I don't know how I did that at the time, but… Did you just not believe it to be true? No, I definitely believed it. I know for a fact, like no one would be able to tell me that that was a dream or I woke up and I was in a dream state. It was definitely 100%. Then in the morning, I went down and I spoke to my mum and I was like, Mum, can you just be honest with me? Did you and dad have sex last night? And she goes, No, Sonia. They hadn't for a while. They're like, No. I said, Well, this is what happened to me. I think then we were just dumbfounded and shocked.

Sonia wasn't the only person in her house to have experienced something like this. She said her sister did too. How long after this episode that you experienced did your sister send something in the house?

I think she'd had a few little things, but there was another incident where my mum went up to my sister's room and she was screaming because her TV kept changing channel on its own and she tried to change it back and then it changed again. It almost felt malevolent and her bed started shaking. And so she was so freaked out that she had to sleep in my mum and dad's room at the foot of the bed.

And while Sonia never had another bed shaking event, her sisters didn't stop.

I think her bed would shake quite regularly, just this constant shaking. I think she had that quite, honestly, a regular nightly thing.

I spent months trying to speak to Sonia's sister, but was never able to convince her to go on the record. At first, she seemed interested in talking. We went back and forth through a mutual friend for a few weeks, but then the communication died. She closed up. The message I got was that what she experienced in that house deeply upset her. She didn't want to revisit it.

Well, I'm just desperate to know what you experience. That's like I'm really wanting to find out what you experienced.

I was a bit nervous to tell Sonia about my experience in the house. Compared to the bed rattling, my little yellow vars moving across the room felt a bit feeble.

Did anything else happen to you? Or is it just mostly those things?

No. What I experienced in that room was nothing threatening, malevolent. It was just this feeling that there was something a bit odd that was happening that I couldn't explain. And that's where I am now, right?

So do you feel like you're still trying to look for a rational explanation? Or are you open now that it's something abnormal?

I don't have any answers yet. I really don't. And I'm just trying to understand. But if you have several different people, none of whom know each other, all of whom have been sleeping in the same place, and all of whom are independently reporting similar sorts of things, it's quite discombobulating.

Yeah. It just opens up this extra fascination about who is it and why were they moving stuff around and who used to live there. I don't know. It's all that stuff.

Right now, I'm bursting to tell Sonia about what happened in the house next door. But because it seemed her sister was still traumatised by whatever happened there, I felt uncomfortable bringing up a disturbing murder. Though in my mind, I'm thinking, if this is the ghost of my wife's great grandmother, why would she be shaking Sonia's bed? What's she trying to tell her? From Wondery, I Hear Fear is a new anthology series of suspensible Stories hosted by Kari Mulligan. These stories are inspired by true events in real places, so the next sound you hear could be your own scream. Stay tuned to the end of this episode to hear a preview of I Hear Fear. I'm going to put the ghost story on ice for a second and pick up with the murder story where we left off in episode one. Remember, my wife's great grandmother was murdered back in 1937. Her name was Naomi Dansey. The official story is that she was shot through the eyes in the middle of the night by her shell-shocked brother, Morris, who was also found dead on the scene with his throat slit. Morris also tried to kill Naomi's husband, a man that the family calls Fatha.

But Fatha valiantly escaped and called the police. When I got hold of the original police file, though, something curious stood out. Two anonymous letters, nearly illegible, that question whether the brother was the true culprit and urge the cops to instead look into the husband. It seems the police barely did, and no one in my wife's family believed that he had anything to do with it. So that's what we're going to do, look into Fathr. We just so happen to have the perfect resource at our disposal. That is a nearly 3,000 page document he wrote about himself.

These are memoirs. There are 18 volumes of closely written hand.

The document lives in the home of Mark Dansey, my uncle-in-law.

I don't really know which volume to start with.

It's made up of 18notebooks, Fadher's handwritten memoirs to tell the story of his life. It's a huge amount of work.

It's huge. It's extraordinary. This is before the days of word processes, of course.

I've come to see Mark in the memoirs because together they've become the source of what people remember about Fadher. Have you now read all of them?

Probably most of them, yes.

They live here because Mark has a unique connection to Fever. In many ways, he's the you can get to being in the room with him. Mark looks like Fever, tall with that bald, dancey head. He's a doctor like Fadher. And Mark is so proud of the man that he even took on the name for himself. Am I right in thinking that your grandchildren call you Fadher?

Yeah, I thought it's quite a nice sounding name, and I thought that his memory should be preserved because he was a truly remarkable person, actually. Just to read a page of his memoirs, you will realize.

It's true. When you're done marveling at the scope of the memoirs and actually start reading them, it's clear that Fevered is easy to revere.

The stuff about his own life is fascinating.

In the memoirs, Fadher lays out his life story. He was born at the turn of the 20th century and excelled at school from a young age. He gets a scholarship to Cambridge University.

He was an educational sponge, and he thirsted for knowledge.

Now for.

Something really.

Wonderful for this.

Time, I need another beautiful girl. While training to be a doctor, he becomes a skilled magician and joins the magic circle. Stand right here. I want to show you a wonderful trip. It's a famous London club for magicians. That's it.

Hold it.

Hold it.

To pay his way through university, Phaether starts writing pop songs under a pseudonym, and later he gets a number one hit in America.

Number one, the.

Top tune of the week. The song the survey finds in first place, and it's still Cruising down the river. Cruising down the river on a Sunday- Which, by the way, is covered by Frank Sinatra.

What's.

This one?

This is Gullipally. This is a special box.

In World War I, Fadher joins the army and lands on the beach at Gullippaly, a famous Allied defeat.

These are my memories of the 1914 war, written in 1965.

His memoirs of the First World War are so vast and detailed that the BBC makes a documentary based on them. Discovered among the papers of an English GP, Dr. Jack Dancy, is a remarkable account of his career. His portrait once hung in the Royal Academy of Arts in London, and he does all of this before the age of 28.

One always wondered if one's life was rather dull compared to his.

As far as Naomi goes, we don't learn very much about her and Fathir's memoirs. He does describe when they first fall in love in 1918. They're working alongside each other at the hospital and they have a run-in in the library. Her sandwich falls on the ground and they both bend down to clean it up. He's taken with her blushing cheeks and beautiful eyes. But for all the dramatic escapades Fader writes about, he doesn't write about what's arguably the most dramatic night of his life, the night Naomi was murdered. The memoirs end years before, and Mark is worried that in the life of this great man, that's the thing I'm going to focus on at the expense of everything else.

The most spectacular, from a reporting point of view, spectacular part of his life was Naomi's murder. It would be easy to see how a sensationalist journalist makes a big story out of that. And it would be easy for someone who hasn't got an open mind to say, Well, I'm going to set out to show that Fever did it, or, And to lead the listener into that belief. And I don't wish his memory to be stained unnecessarily, and I don't think he deserves that.

At the time, Mark's caution felt fair enough. Fever was his grandfather after all. He's protective of him. But the more I thought about it, the more something felt a little funny. Why does Mark think it would be easy for me to betray Fahd as a murderer?

Okay, there were a few questions, but they were never answered in a negative way for his memory, shall we say.

Those questions Mark's referring to, I want to try to answer them myself. And to do that, we're going to return to the police file to the only first hand account of what happened that night. I'm about to play a clip from I Hear Fear. Follow I Hear Fear on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast. Shh, stay quiet. Don't move.

Did you hear that?

Sounds you hear in the middle of the night. Or when you're deep in the woods.

Or alone walking down a dark street. You tell yourself it's just your imagination.

But what if it's not? From Amazon Music.

And.

Wondry, I'm Carrie.

Muligan.

And.

This is I Hear Fear, a new anthology series that will make you bolt your doors and hide under the covers. My favourite thing in the world is a.

Brilliant.

Ghost story, and nothing scares me more than a story inspired by real events.

And real horrors.

From a deadly dance party to a.

Cursed movie set.

The sounds of terror are all around us.

Warning, the.

Next sounds you hear might be your own screams.

Binge all episodes of I hear fear, ad-free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. We're going to dive back into the police file from Naomi's murder, but we're not going to do it alone.

My name is Hugh Dancy, I live in New York. I'm an actor.

I'm 47 years old. I am your brother-in-law. My brother-in-law, Hugh, may not be a murder detective himself, but he does play one on TV.

I got an acquittal for a stung, cold killer. That was the day I realized I would much rather send bad people to prison than help them get off.

Hugh is the Hollywood famous Dancy. These days, he plays the assistant district attorney on Law and Order. But really, I'm turning to Hugh for this because he's the person I go to for advice in the family. He's my wife's big brother and someone I generally look up to. When you looked at Fathor's statement, what did you make of it?

Well, I made the mistake of reading it immediately before I went to bed last night. It was not a good plan.

While I was waiting to finish my reporting before sharing information with the wider family, I wanted to send Hugh the police file early on.

I've read it twice. I read it again today. Bunch more things jumped out at me after second reading, and I found it to be quite disturbing and rife with details that begged questions.

He also agreed to lend his acting talent to this project.

Wait, I'm playing my great-grandfather. You're going to play your great-grandfather. Okay.

Hugh is going to read from Favir's police statement from the night Naomi died. Last episode, we read the end of the statement, but that's just a small fraction of what Fevered told detectives at the time. His entire statement takes up five typed pages, and in it, he outlines everything that happened in the days leading up to the murder and why he thinks Morris killed Naomi and then took his own life.

Statement of John Horace Dancy, age 46, Huseith. I am a medical practitioner and at the moment semi-retired. My wife, Naomi Dancy, was assistant.

You know the cast of characters. There's Fader himself, Naomi, and Naomi's brother, Morris Tribe.

Morris Tribe has always been a heavy drinker since his youth. Lately, he has been losing the sight of his remaining eye and Mrs. Dancy, my wife and I thought we must keep him.

We've established Morris came back from World War I, having lost an eye. Here, Fadher is saying he recently started to lose sight in his other eye, so he's been treating him for it.

Under directions from a specialist, I have been giving him injections every Monday for the past six Mondays for his eye.

The fact that Fadher gives Morris these injections every Monday will become significant because the murder takes place overnight on a Monday. At this point in the statement, Fader sets the clock back 10 days before the murder.

On Friday, 10 days ago, he drank very heavily. On Saturday morning after this, he rang me up and threatened to shoot my wife's eyes out. He has on previous occasions rang my wife up and threatened the same thing.

This is an incredibly damning moment in Favid's story. Morris has threatened to kill Naomi in the precise way that she's about to be killed. If what he's saying is true, it's basically case closed.

I was very upset and I rushed off in the car to fetch her from Hammersmith and to know that she was safe.

Just stop there. There is a problem.

You remember, Jackie Muldon? She's the retired Scotland Yard detective we spoke to in episode one. When we read through Favid's statement with her, she couldn't help herself. She stopped us periodically to point out discrepancies and doubts she had about Favid's story.

We cannot corroborate the story that Dancy is telling that Morris tribe has previously threatened to shoot his sister through the eyes. There's no corroboration of that.

In his statement, Fevered actually does refer to another person who heard Morris making threats. He says Morris's sister-in-law also heard them. But when the police interview the sister-in-law, she tells a different story. She says about Morris, quote, So far as I know, he never threatened anyone. Later, she adds, Nobody had any idea that he would harm anyone.

We've got a huge gap there, haven't you?

Well, there's a specific contradiction, isn't there?

Specific, yeah.

Where are we?

All right, back to Fadi's statement.

At 7:00 AM, he rang me up. He was weeping drunk.

Fahd has says that in the week before the murder, Morris just has a terrible time. He's getting drunk at 7:00 in the morning, he gets hit by a car, he injuries his legs badly. He can hardly walk. And at this point, we arrive on the day of the murder, Monday, November 22. Because it's a Monday, Morris is supposed to have his injection. So Fethe goes and picks Morris up and brings him to Queen's Road for the night. When they arrive at the house, Fethe has to drop Marius off before immediately turning around and taking his housekeeper home. A woman called Mrs. Brooks.

We got home at 3:30 PM. I put Marius into his room on the first floor and put him into two armchairs as his legs were bad. I took Mrs. Brooks in the car to Brentford. On the way, I remembered there were insurance papers in the house which did not wish Marius to see. He was all alone in the house.

Insurance papers that he doesn't want his brother-in-law to see.

He was all alone in the house. I left Mrs. Brooks and came home. I came in silently and I saw him sheepishly shutting his door.

What he's worried about Morris seeing is the paperwork from a new insurance policy that Feverr has just taken out days before on Naomi's life. This looks really bad, right? But the way Feverr explains it to detectives, this new policy doesn't in any way implicate him. Instead, he turns it on its head and he says it's actually Morris' motive for killing his sister. Hold on to your hats, folks. I'm about to go deep on life insurance.

About 15 years ago, Morris took my wife to an insurance company, had her examined and insured-.

This is Fader's take on the insurance situation. He says that years ago, Maris brokered an insurance policy on Naomi's life. Morris is a amateur agent, so he got a small commission for doing this, like a finder's fee every year. Even though Fathr never asked Morris to broker a policy, that's been their life insurance coverage for years on Naomi.

The final payment is due this week. Morris knew this as he was drawing commission on the policy.

But now that policy is expiring, which is why Fathr took out a new policy on Naomi's life. Except this time he doesn't use Morris as the broker. Morris is about to lose his yearly commission. And because Morris wasn't bringing a lot of money in, that small commission may have been a big part of his income. Fader knows this. He knows it's going to upset Morris, so he's been trying to hide it from him. But on the night of the murder, Morris happens upon the paperwork.

I came in silently and I saw him sheepishly shutting his door.

Soon after, Naomi gets home and Morris confronts her.

After my wife came home from business, he waited till I was out of the room and said to her, I hear you are being reinsured. I heard this through the door and went back. I made signs to her to say no. She said, Has Jack been telling you?, meaning me. I chimed in and said, But nothing has been settled, Maris. He looked at me and then at her and said, Well, if that's the case, you need not expect to live to draw the money. I said, Don't be ridiculous, Maris. No one lives to draw their own insurance money. He said, Anyhow, you can go your own way if you left me out of it, but I think you are mean. My wife said, You know, Maris, if you had it, you'd only drink it.

But where's the evidence to support that? Where is the evidence to support that? Now, the only way that we know that this is true, according to Dr. Dancy, is that Dr. Dancy conveniently sees tribe leaving his office where he had left the insurance policies. Hey-ho! He knew because he'd been Snooping around my house.

Fadher lays out the insurance as Morris' motive. That Morris was so upset to lose his yearly commission that he killed his sister. But Fadher doesn't point out three important facts. One, that at the time of the murder, both policies are in effect. Morris' policy, which was about to expire, and Fathr's new policy. Two, that Fathr is the beneficiary on both of them, which means three, upon Naomi's death, Fathr stood to gain 6,500 pounds, equivalent to 450thousand dollars in today's money.

Any investigation where there's an insurance policy: red flags, red flags, red flags.

Back to the night of the murder, Phaetha tells us that Naomi and Maurice have just finished arguing about the insurance.

I sent my wife to bed and went and peeled an orange for her and told her to go to sleep as she was tired, and I would write to the children and get it off tonight.

You know what happens next. What follows is the back and forth between Fatha and Morris that we heard last episode, but I think you'll hear it differently this time. At about 1:10 AM, Fathr says he hears Marius leave his room, and then he hears gunshots.

I went to the door and saw Marius advancing towards me. I said, Marius, what have you done?

Faitha and Marius are both standing on the landing in between Faitha's study and Naomi's bedroom. Faitha sees Marius pointing the revolver at his head. So in a split second, Faitha does that stealth maneuver thing to escape being killed. He switches off the lights, clunging the landing into darkness.

I switched the light out and dropped flat to the floor. He shot as I fell and the bullet whizzed by my ear and went through the back window. I laid quite still and pretended that I was hit.

He's pretending to be injured and listens closely for what Morris does next.

He then went into the lavatory and closed the door behind him. I went to the lavatory door and tried to force it. I found it was locked from inside, and I called on him to come out and give me the gun. He said, Stand away from those panels or I'll shoot you like a dog.

After facing off with Morris through the lavatory door, Father goes to check on Naomi in the bedroom next door.

She had been shot through both eyes and blood was spurting from one of her eyes.

Eventually, after seeing that Naomi was dead, Faitha goes back to the locked bathroom door and breaks it down with his shoulder. He finds Morris sitting cross-legged with his head bent over.

A razor fell from his hand as I pushed the door open. The revolver was on the floor by his right-hand side. I felt for his pulse and found him pulseless. I pulled his head back and found that he had a severe gash in his throat. The lavatory was saturated with blood and he had blood on his right-hand.

Can I stop there?

One final point here from Jackie. Jackie noticed something in the police file, a discrepancy between how Feverr found Morris and how the police found Morris.

This point, this I just want to raise now, was not in his original statement, but it comes from the Chief Constable.

When the police get to the scene, they find Maury is dead with the razor clasped in his hand. Of course, Feverr has just described a very different scenario.

A razor fell from his hand as I pushed the door open.

This is obviously a contradiction to what the police officers see. So immediately the police officers will say, Well, hang on a minute. You said that you saw it fall to the floor. I saw it in his hand. How did it get into his hand? And at this point, Dancy says, Well, actually, I put the razor back into his hand.

Do.

They say why?

They didn't ask why from anything that I can see on the file.

Then the police noticed something else weird. Maurice tribe's hands were suspiciously clean. He had very little blood on them, despite having just cut his throat. So the cops go to Fathor and ask him something like, Do you have any idea why Morris's hands would be so clean? And Fathor gives an explanation.

He says he took the pulse of his brother-in-law to see that he was dead. And in order to take his pulse, he washes his hands. He washes tribe's hands to do that.

He washes the blood off the dead man's hands? Yes. How do you.

Understand that?

I don't know. I don't know why he would do that. You wouldn't touch the evidence. Why would you touch the evidence? Why would you touch it?

I left him and went into the bedroom to look at my wife. After a lapse of a few minutes, I telephoned the ambulance and later the police. Signed John Dancy. At 9:30 AM on the 23rd of November 1937.

Let me recap what Jacky has just laid out here in her analysis of Fathr's statement. First, the threats he tells us about, where Morris threatens to shoot Naomi's eyes out, are uncorroborated. No one else heard Morris threatening anyone. Second, the motive Fathr ascribes to Morris that he was so upset to lose his insurance commission is also unsubstantiated. In fact, the whole insurance thing looks much worse for Fathr than for Morris because he's the only person who would benefit financially from Naomi's death. Finally, Fathr messes with the crime scene in some strange, specific ways. He tells police that when he finds Morris in the bathroom, he washes the blood off of Morris's hands and places the razor blade back into them.

The allegations in this case are all made by Dr. John Dancy. It seems that this esteemed physician's word is taken by the police as the gospel truth. Well, you never do that.

There's one other thing, a glaring absence in the police investigation that Jackie finds egregious.

Sometimes we have to talk about what's missing from a police file. And what's missing from a police file is the dynamics of their relationship between Nancy and his wife, Naomi. We know nothing because there's nothing in the file. There's no statements from anyone to say what the state of their marriage was. Had she spoken to anybody, the statements might say they were absolutely phenomenally happy.

Yeah, and we have no evidence to suggest that they're.

Not happy. No evidence to suggest. But that's what I'm saying to you, Tristan. You can't make assumptions if you haven't asked the questions. That's really dangerous territory to go down.

All I knew about their relationship before I started this project was that it was very unusual for 1937. Naomi was a much more successful doctor than Fever. So she was the breadwinner while he stayed at home with the kids. But you don't learn any of that from the police file. It's interesting that there's no statements about Naomi at all. Nothing.

No statements about Naomi. She's almost not mentioned. Exactly. She has no voice in this. The fact that she's dead, that's all we know about Naomi. She's been shot in the eyes.

Despite all of her suspicions, there's one big thing Jackie can't square when she considers the possibility that Fathr got away with murder.

I do have a concern about the crime scene. I really do have a concern about that.

Because- What concern?

Well, if Nancy did it and murdered him, how did he bolt the door? How did he get out? How did he leave him in there?

How did he bolt the door? How did he get out? What she's pointing out is that the police find Morris dead in the bathroom with the door broken open after it had been locked from the inside.

The problem with it is to work out how tribe ended up on the laboratory floor and it's locked from the inside.

So if you were to believe that Fever killed Morris, the question is, how does he get out of the locked bathroom in order to then knock the door down?

It is a, quote-unquote, lock door mystery.

Which Hugh informed me makes it part of a long tradition of murder mysteries. What's a lock door mystery?

It's when somebody dies inside a locked room.

Is that a thing? Yeah.

It's the famous Sherlock Holmes one when it turns out that somebody managed to introduce a venemous snake through the light. But yeah, it's a thing.

If you can't figure out a way that Fathr could have gotten out, then you can't really make a case that Fathr was in the room when Morris died. So it can't have been Fathr.

That supports the murder, suicide theory.

Next time on Ghost Story, we dive headfirst into the lockdoor mystery in what's perhaps the strangest part of the police file of all.

It's insane.

It's almost like he's presenting it like a magician. But then how did I get out of the door?

Follow Ghost Story on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes ad-free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondry. Com/survey. Ghost Story is a production of Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios. It's hosted by me, Tristan Redman. Our lead producer is Annie Brown. Our senior producers are Chloe Prasinos and Jess Hackel. Our producers are Zandra, Ellen and Emerald O'Brien. Our associate producer is Natalie Peart. John Lovall is our editor with fact-checking by Maximo Anderson. Themed song and music by Darryl Griffith, supplied by APM Music with mixing and original music by Hanis Brown. Pineapple's head of sound and engineering is Raj Mcager. With assistant engineers Sharon Badales and Jade Brooks. The senior audio engineer for Ghost Story is Davie Sumner. Jess Hackle was our senior producer of development. Our artwork was designed by Brian Klugee. Legal services for Pineapple Street by Rachel Strom and Sam Cate-Gumpert from Davis Wright-Tremaine, Crystal Tupia at Odyssey and David Hearst from Five R. B. Our senior producer for Wondry is Michelle Martin with producers Brian Taylor White and Grant Rutter.

Rachel Sibley is the Managing Producer for WNDY and Sarah Mathis is the coordinating producer. Our executive producers at Pineapple Street are Maddy Sprun-Kaiser, Max Linsky, and Jenna Weiss-Burman. Our executive producers for WNDYRY are Morgan Jones, Rich Knight, Marshall Louis, and Jessica Radburn. Special thanks to nick Costov, Soho Radio, Richmond Local Studies Library, Alison Vermullin, and Barney Lee. This episode contains public sector information licensed under the Open Government license, version 3.0..