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Hello, welcome, everyone, to go welcome selkies that we're calling it, that's our working title, we will change it because it's probably not very good.
But I man, I think I still think that Jimbo and donkey shit for a bit was better to you personally.
It was a solid gold title, but not quite a gold and walkie talkie. All right.
So what we're doing is book as Jim Jamie didn't. She says first. First.
Oh, yeah. I'm Jamie. Occasionally known as Jim, Jim, Bob, John Karr, the Jimmy Jarmo and all of the above names Duncan.
Yeah, and Chewy, wow. Only one thing for yourself, the dunk dunk, so big dunk, big deal. No one goes in that. Um, so.
Uh, we need to avoid radio silence here to this, they've done a great job. I've been on the radio when I was on Flatmate's radio show. What radio station?
Radio, Duncan, what we were doing on this delightful podcast we've made well, on this delightful podcast made sure we were watching a film that came out 50 years ago this week. Exactly.
And then we are talking about it and probably talking about a bunch of other shit as well.
Wow. So, Marema, why why are we expert on films that are 50 years old?
We aren't, is the short answer. You are almost done with a film studies degree and I have no qualifications.
I think I would love to hear our opinions, the degrees film and visual culture.
Jamie, I'd like you to I'm sorry. I refer to the full title. Yeah, we are totally unqualified.
But you know what? When you're in lockdown, you got to do something very poor. Yeah, I know. But remind ourselves of our times like the 1970s when we were just young young whippersnappers, long Sprott's.
Young Sprott's. That's right. And so something I just wanted to say quickly and I was kind of wondering why you decided to do this with me, because I remember when we were having dinner a few years ago, and then you asked me a couple of questions. Are you talking to me? And I give a couple of responses and you chastise me for being very bad at conversation generally.
And so what was the what was the thought process of I figured you deserved a chance to redeem yourself.
Oh, OK. Go on. It's that we do this podcast. Was I. Yes, you were. OK, you guys. I do it.
Well, I'm glad you gave me the chance because you know something better than picking yourself up on the Internet for everyone.
To all three of you. Natural gas. Well, for few years.
Oh, are you going you're going to be sharing this on Facebook and listen to it?
No, I'm not even sure if I'm going to listen to it, frankly. Well, I mean, you don't have to listen to it. You're part of it. I'm here. I'm in the moment anyway. My microphone.
Oh, my. Well, I was just I was just going to to warn that my microphone is pretty, pretty bad and it's making sure I can tell.
I love whenever I laugh, it's going to make quite a light crackling noise. So this is a, you know, professional so no joke podcast.
This organization focused, you know, very experienced. So what's the film for today, Jamie?
Delightful film. Will we be discussing today is a masterwork I think most would agree called Getting Straight. English should be the thirteenth of May, 1970. That's today.
Yeah, exactly. Fifty years ago you.
So I thought we could we could start by just talking about the general sort of context. Did you hear that, by the way?
I did hear that. Fantastic. That is amazing. OK, listen, give me one thing I. All right, well, I'll see you guys. Well, so the plot of Getting Straight is about a master's student in the 1970s who used to be in the Big War I Vietnam War is the greatest war.
I don't think any other war has that type that really I think it just has to be the war to end all wars. I think so. Exactly. Yeah. Famously successful. So he goes back to the university to get his master's degree and teach. Right. He's you know, he's a real cool cat, very clever, very smart. But he's being kept down by the establishment is so he's trying to get his teaching degree, but he's caught between two generations because obviously it's the seventies or at more accurately, the sixties because it was recorded in the 60s, student protest going on and everything like that.
They're saying that racism is bad and lots of other controversial controversial stances. So between his activist ideals of the younger generation and his need to conform with the older generation, yeah, antics ensue. This delightful university.
Exactly. Exactly. And I'm sure we'll get into detail, you know, and all that super detailed stuff about all that, right?
Yep. Yeah. So my plot summary proves that I'm really good. That was good.
That was really good. So I thought, first of all, we could start by talking about like the historical context, the what was going on at the time. So I looked up, I looked up the like the day the headlines for the date. And I found this right. I find this website to take me back to take me back to you.
And that's today's sponsors. So show. No, it's not. But it was a it was an interesting website. It had like had what the sky looked like, you know, where all the stars were and stuff, which was not all relevant, but yeah. So it had all the magazine covers and stuff. So the time the Time magazine cover for that week was all about the invasion of Cambodia.
Did you work out well that yeah. What I didn't really know about it, I looked up, it was kind of just part of the war, like the US were there for like two months and then they pulled out. So I think I think it was like a leadership change.
It's not the place for Henry Kissinger did that massacre. I don't I don't know. Maybe I don't know shit about history. I'm glad you've researched it so well.
But basically, it seemed seemed that there was there is a change in power in the US wanting to get in and make sure that they were supported and all that kind of usual shit.
So then then within within Time magazine, there was an article. Right, because it was titled. Communism, it's bad more, think more, more, some more similar to the film that we're discussing.
Oh, something about student protest goes awry.
It was protested on the campus outside the Kent State massacre in the little bit after this film.
Again, Jamie. Your research is interesting. OK, well, there are a lot of time, lots of yes, there are loafers at the time. And I couldn't I couldn't read the whole article, but there is this like quote by Nixon in it.
And I managed to find the full quote in The New York Times. You know, I really did my research here. I went deep. Thank you. And so he said, you see these bums, you know, blowing up the campuses. Yes. And the boys are on the college campuses today are the luckiest people in the world going to the great universities. And here they are burning up the story around this issue. You name it, get rid of the war.
There will be another one. Then there we have kids who are just doing their duty. They stand tall in. They're proud. I'm sure they're scared. I was when I was there. But when it really comes down to it, they stand up and boy, you have to talk up to those men. They're going to fine. And we have to stand in back of them. We have to stand in Sacramento what that means. But yeah.
So I thought that was quite, quite a nice man. Well, nothing came of him in what came at him. I don't know, man.
It's an interesting thing to talk about in this film is that there was this perpetual threat of the draft if you flunk out of school.
Yeah. I'm so Elliott Gold's character, Harry Daley, who I feel now addresses such as his best friend named, and he's got a wacky subplot where he tries to sort of dodge the draft throughout the film.
He does. He does play. It's kind of he pretends to be gay. He pretends to become a Buddhist. He joins the Marines, which is in my the funniest joke in the entire film that was very funny and OK.
So, OK, quickly talking about this character, was he supposed to be Native American or was that one of his movies?
I want to know that was one of his schemes. OK, I missed that. I missed that because I kind of there in the airport. Right. Or something like that. And he was like, oh, yeah, I'm Native American.
You take our last generation.
I was like, is this guy supposed to be Native American? Because I think his defining characteristic was high in a way is honestly kind of alarming. Like non-functional. Yeah. Yeah, it was it was interesting.
That was an interesting character for sure.
But yeah, it's just this idea that if you flunk out of school, then you will be shipped off somewhere. Yeah, well we die. Exactly.
It's not really, not really something have to worry about nowadays is it.
Yeah, it's quite disturbing. Yeah.
I think Nick my favorite character though because he was one of the only ones that was funny and that is my see the future.
You didn't think the rest of them are funny now. I find I find some of it's funny. Yeah. For sure. To move on to maybe the thought of the film itself. Harry Daily is very much a wise guy. He's very smart, too smart for that, and plays unlikable.
He was an asshole. Everyone, I can absolutely. I was trying my hardest to like him and then I realized I wrote thanks.
I was taking notes like, you know, if, you know, I went through and I wrote down a bit of an asshole, to be honest, at one point I just like, I think the exact same thing.
Really. Yeah. I was like, this guy is just a bit of an asshole.
Yeah. Yeah, it was something like that. Yeah. I think it was like this guy's actually a bit of shit. Yeah.
He's spans the entire film claiming to be smarter than everyone else. And in fairness to him, he is usually right. But this like he hates the younger students because he feels that they're just acting out of self identity rather than for. Yeah, but political belief. He hates all the woman. Yeah. Does not respect any of them. And he hates all teachers because they're not you know, they're standing in the way. They're being the establishment.
Yeah. Yeah. So. I would say the first 40 minutes of this film in particular, you spend a lot of time with the Harry Daily and nothing much really happens.
This kind of this is like it really doesn't bother it until I'm going to be honest.
I thought the first 40 minutes were boring as shit.
Yes, it was genuinely painful.
And just how this all happens. No, I don't know if you had a similar experience.
So I think the big thing that happened of no for me in the first the first bit was, you know, that drink has of the ketchup and.
Oh, God, that's horrible. Yeah, I forgot I was there. I think that was probably I like there's like a lunchtime scene where I was talking with his professors, like, favorite professors. Yeah.
He is the one who loves them and he's really trying to nurture and like he makes a drink with hot water and catch up and then like he squirts like maybe catch some hot water and mixes around and drinks.
It is foul.
Yeah. I was thinking, I was thinking that looks fucking gross.
And then I thought, you know what, people drink Bloody Marys and that's Lizzi like tomato juice, vodka or most washed ashore or like your heart cells or any of the things that make a Bloody Mary good bloody Marys have hot sauce in them.
Yeah, most of them do. And I felt it was just like alcohol to my self. And also like just to clear I never had one.
To be fair, tomato juice and tomatoes are not the same thing.
That's true because the thing is, you you would go to a bar and you would order a glass of tomato juice, but you wouldn't order a glass of wine.
And I have some hot water, which I catch up in it. Yeah, it's very gross.
Yeah. So that was probably the most interesting thing that happened in the first four years.
This is a very nice montage to opens up the film where you see, like all the kids dancing around and like me, this is a very busy university campus. That was another thing I noticed.
Like, is chock full of people all the time. Yeah, mostly empty, which is generally been my experience.
And and it's got that like very like film campus thing of fucking.
Everyone knows each other, everyone knows each other and they're always wandering off somewhere. There's always nobody stands for conversation.
They always do that thing like they talk and then they turn around like you see.
Yeah. I mean it kind of it kind of made sense for him because he was so studious, like busy guy that was stuck between the self and the students. But like everyone is the same. They've all got somewhere to be apart from the writing, I guess. But, you know, like the rest of the film, they're like they're like saying you're talking about whereas I go on campus, you know, and I maybe meet like two people that I know had like a quick conversation with them.
And that's like. You know, that's what you do. So I always find it interesting to see how make because I think they said in the film this was to be like the second biggest university in America or something like I didn't hear that.
I think I think it's like a fictitious uni. I think it is maybe.
No, I didn't really catch anything. It certainly certainly they they sort of said that it was just like huge university thing.
And I'm like, man, everyone fucking knows each other in this place. Like, not only do they know him because he's just like character, but he fucking though everyone is crazy. I don't know, maybe he was like staying in his school or something.
But yeah, I was going to say is that the beginning follows around this one. Apple sort of gets passed around. Yeah. And then they all love it and then you get your finishing shot where it says the beautiful phrase Earth sucks. There is no gravity carved into the apple. Yeah.
The cool thing is very cool. Do you think it means anything? Um, I don't really know.
And I, I was trying to think, you know, like, well, what does this mean? I mean, obviously there's like the literal, you know. Well I don't know. I don't know. I don't know me.
It's like graffiti all throughout the film that also says the earth sucks. There is no gravity. So maybe it's maybe I don't know.
Did you look up? Did you Google it?
Maybe it's a quote from something I'm going to do. I'm going to do it right now. Wow, that's crazy. You know, going to talk so. Oh, Harry Daley has, I think, a beautiful mustache, rich, creamy mustache. Yeah.
It kind of had very Borup vibes.
I realize now I was going to say very early.
Weird Al Yankovic was the last man he looked like Weird Al Yankovic, like doing a Borat play it weird. Weird Al Yankovic did a parody of like for the JEDEN Well or something like that.
Like that's so weird.
I would love to do a parody of that song.
I doubt he would defer to you for that. You or Kazakhstan is the best country in the world.
ASSP a more appropriate, more sensitive one wanted to do. I don't know. I don't want to offend but you know.
OK, yeah, he's got a big mustache, big afro, these guys glasses. And then on the poster for the film, which is done in the most horrendous shape of lime green in the world. Yeah. You get sort of the female lead on the screen behind them. Then you got Elliott Gould naked. Yeah. Outfit with chest hair and almost like boots all around his junk. Yeah. Which I assume is how they sold this film. And I'm very interested to know if he was ever considered attractive by me.
So talking about lime green, you know, that bit where the guy the guy says the lecturer said something about green, like it's all green or something like that. Oh yeah.
It's like green dots. And then I literally agree there's a green filter like over him. Yeah.
It's like them in this films mostly short light for a normally and then there are just moments where it gets really weird.
And I do like I really like that, I really like that. I was like I was going to see examples that occurred to me, all those dots that you're talking about where he sounds like green dots and then it just shows him in green light. I mean, yes, exactly. And then there's one bit where I like some people are having an argument around him and he does like, you know, sort of like in cartoons where you have, like, the angel and the demon.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I had all these days and then the final bit where he's like confronted with like the establishment guys know what I'm going to say before he's warm. And then it's like the most ridiculous fisheye.
I fucking talk to one man. I love that, that kind of thing, like the other ones are like kind of subtle.
That one is just so.
Yeah, I know a lot of people hate it and I really like it, especially in a film like this is supposed to be a little bit sort of comedic and lighthearted. Yeah, I love that kind of stuff.
And OK, so just quickly back to the gravity or something. I can I can't do anything. I don't know why I went back to it because I didn't find anything. I probably could.
We can probably go back to going for the film semi chronologically, which is what we probably should have been doing. Well, no, I don't think so. I think we should just talk about whatever. So those effects just get goofy. Fuck you. No, thank you.
Think you that's very good for the camera, the camerawork and the editing in the film.
It was really nice. I thought there was there were all these shots where, like the camera like travelled around the room and it like focus in on something and out on something else. And I was like, shit, this is like super advanced stuff. And there was like the one I'm thinking about particular's.
You know, when you go to the library after year after year, like had the argument with Jen, I know there's a show where, like, focuses on all different girls and they're like, you know, like one of them's right next to him. And the same the same shot, like moves and zooms up one to one. It's on the balcony and then it follows her. She walks and like comes down to one. It's sitting up there and then down to someone is walking right in front of it.
And I was like, man, the choreography on these shots is amazing. And like the focus pulling, I was like, this is this is impressive stuff. It's impressive. It's very fun. It's say, with those three glaring exceptions is a mostly.
You grounded film in terms of how it shot.
Yeah, yeah, but well, I don't know, I do like a good I would say like seven, seven or eight of these these shots that were like fairly long shots of the focus pulling on different things, which is, you know, I say I think where the film really shines is in moments where he is stuck in a room he doesn't want to be in with a lot of people who are trying.
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Which starts to happen constantly and it's always great. It feels really claustrophobic. Like Elliot Schulz character, Harry Daily, he's very much a character who tends to fly off the wall when he's under pressure. He does not always like this ramp up to these moments where he just starts screaming and he's always horrible when he screams. Oh, yeah, absolutely horrible.
Just moments of explosions, of emotion that were the first after the first 40 minutes, which don't really establish anything other than Harry Daley is poor and he's busy. Yeah, I would say the first really stand out sequence for me is when he sits down with dinner with the conservative family.
Yeah, with Boston suburbs. Yeah, exactly. Because that's the first time very much the sort of currency of Harry's character is that he's not quite a. What would you be, silent generation, he's stuck between generations, basically, he's not quite young activist. He's not quite old enough to be part of the establishment yet. Still a lot of idealism left in him, even though he sort of is cognizant of the fact that he needs to settle down to something.
Yeah. So the first sequence where I think this is really highlighted, the first where the film actually begins to establish conflict is the scene where he's just been offered a job by a professor of his guiding students around the campus and established very clearly that is, you know, he's desperate for money. He's been kicked out. He's homeless right now. Mm hmm. And he sort of starts talking about how all these student protesters are just going to dang far.
Yes. And they're really disrupting everything. You know, why can't they just ask for good old incremental change? It was good enough for everyone else. Exactly.
Which. Which is interesting. Yeah, I think one of the things that really stood out to me in this film is like obviously it's sort of takes place during this one once in a forever just unique political moment. But it does you to see just how little has changed in any meaningful way. Stutes that people bring to it is very much the attitude of like the establishment figures. There is always like, you know, I believe in their causes. I just wish they wouldn't be so dang rowdy about them.
Yeah. To. But I almost feel like this is kind of reverse now in terms of university, because you see all these of these strikes and stuff, right? Yeah, with with the lectures and it's the lectures are striking. And then it's students are complaining and saying, like, we're missing all this teaching, you know.
And I wonder if it's a generational thing where these these lectures now where maybe not this generation, but the one certainly after and, you know, this this generation to an extent where that's like their kind of mindset.
Whereas now I think maybe because more people are going to uni or a little more, maybe cost more whatever people are expecting. More stability, I don't know, what do you think? One of the things that the film does hit on a sort of criticism of youth activism, you know, I think is one that it does, you know, sort of say isn't entirely wrong. I think it does hit on the fact that it's very entwined with personal identity.
Yeah. One of the things that I think I'm reminded of is that in an interview with Counterpoint Source, she says that, like part of the reason that the spirit of the 60s has revitalized that in the 60s to protest culture was very much entwined with the rest of culture, music in particular. And so the idea that, you know, protest is very much a part of who you are, I don't think is really present in today's society. I think it's very much sort of protesting is something you do rather than the part of yourself.
Yeah. Well, I feel like there is this need to rebel and and yeah. Go against the solution. But I feel like it's a lot less, a lot less sort of violent now or even more violent.
But you know a lot more. Yeah.
The other thing is the stuff that people are pursing but now is very different. Like when I, when I, when I came to, you know, there were people like camping out on the lawn and they were protesting like red like how high the rent was. And it's kind of it's not it wasn't like that. I don't think like it was it was pretty high, but it wasn't like. Unaffordable, you know, and it was kind of felt like there's this just this need to, like, protest something and do something, I think you do definitely see, like, I don't want to be.
I suppose the climate strikes would definitely be the biggest analogy. That's true.
That's true. Yeah. You do go to those and like you do see like people like taking selfies and stuff I always feel is a bit distasteful, but I feel like it's sort of getting back to that idea of having the culture feed into the protest movement.
Yeah, that's true. That is definitely a big thing.
And I mean, the interesting thing is that the people that are in this film and people are in real life where they were all like protesting all this stuff there they are the boomers now.
They're fucking like fucking up there.
One of the things I like, you know, like the folk, they ring up and are not listening to people.
And I don't understand how you can go from, like, being. One thing to the other, but I guess you do like that's that's you character, so he's like certain. Oh, yeah, Harry's well, Harry's ultimate decision is that he belongs with the activists to make sure that the film truly endorses that decision. Or at least that's not what it felt like to me. I don't know if you agree.
It kind of felt like the end of the grudge.
Yeah, well, we'll get onto the ending later. I don't want to get. Oh, you don't want to go. You want to go ahead. OK. Yeah, we'll finish. We'll finish with the ending. That's very natural place for that.
Wow. OK. And you're really reading this. I'm very or refreshingly. Thank you.
Thank you. Yeah. So yeah I was going to say so Harry definitely is sort of stuck between them, but I feel it is just interesting seeing this idea of this moment in time has never probably going to happen again.
They. So the police coming for you. Is the police coming for me, for your counter, your counter establishment?
My counter establishment call with you.
So, yeah. So I think it's worth stating that for a lot of this film, Harry's very, very critical of the student activist. He's involved. He was deeply involved in a lot of much more I don't say legitimate, much more meaningful maybe or.
Yeah, I mean, I feel like at this point the civil rights movement has ended, you know, as it was obviously so not ended completely. But, you know, I mean, like the whole team, a very major goal. Yeah.
And maybe that's one. I don't know. I guess. Well, I mean, there still in Vietnam, as you know, invaded Cambodia a few weeks before the sun came out.
So clearly the. I'm still going, but, yeah, so Harry is very critical of the student activists. Yeah, first he feels I just started doing it so they have something to do even throughout the film. He says that is all about sex. It was the very end.
Yeah, that is kind of true because the funny thing was that the students actually protest about or they need coed dorms, which is even now, I mean, kind of a ridiculous thing to get violent over. I feel I mean, it's just me.
Well, I guess it's kind of like why? It's kind of like a arbitrarily enforced kind of something, like it's not the sort of thing I'd be willing to die for. Let's just say that yes, yes, you're right.
You're right. But it does seem like something that is kind of, you know. Like they don't need to separate. Yeah, yeah, it's not I'm not saying I support segregation, system supports support so I can confirm.
The second thing is that they ask for like a this is like a Black Studies, uh, Black History Month.
OK, now this this is interesting, right?
Yeah. So I was I was looking up and when I was when I was doing my research on headlines and whatever, there's an article in Life magazine titled What White Students Think of Black Studies, AlwaysOn and the General.
The general feeling seemed to be like, you know, a massive massively supporting it, you know, like, yeah, yeah. You know, this should be taught.
But they all seem to be worried about this kind of separation that it sort of enhances, like, you know you know, if black people are already separating themselves in some way and then they have this like studies that only they do, you know, like a lot of them seem to say this is not it's not helpful.
Hmm, and and I feel like even today, you kind of see this like so one of them said, like, they totally get it, because if they're if they were in a foreign country, the first thing they do is like find an American person or like whatever.
And so it makes sense. And I think you still get this today where if you go on campus, there are a lot of groups that are that seem to be congregated around like race or nationality or whatever.
Yeah, well, I think that's just the natural instinct is natural instinct. But I just I find it interesting that people were kind of worried about this, like. They were like, sure, you know, black and porn, whatever, but if it separates even more, you know, we've just come out this thing that we've just come out of, this thing that, you know, the civil rights movement where it's sort of become more equal and all this stuff and then.
You know, it's like a new separation thing, and then I just felt that was an interesting way of looking at it. No, I think that's I mean, that's what I'm saying, like, it's so strange how little James like the scene that made me, like, sort of roll my eyes in the way is like the one where so just to, like, give some background, the student protests are all very peaceful.
They do eventually turn violent. And the police are called in in like a surprisingly, really disturbing scene where they start like getting beaten and dragged off. Yeah. And the campus slowly sort of devolves like barbed wire starts coming out as it was before. But eventually it's completely empty of soldiers.
Yeah. Which again, very unusual, but sort of like the capitulation that I guess he's the dean or something, or at least like a senior member of staff offers like these talks, like I what's the word? I had to campaign super hard for this. I really had to, you know, press my luck here and like the. Sort of his offers at the beginning of what is really a riot at this point are like you can expect a curfew like two hours.
He goes one hour, was it one hour?
And it was like from Kretzmer of eight, from eight to nine or something.
They were going they weren't going to allow for a separate class for black studies. They were going to offer a unit within the history course and they were going to call something that I'm not going to repeat, but said the use of the N-word.
You could stick it in the bed, but not the no. Yeah. Yeah.
And then they were going to be like and they're like we're saying, you know, minority students, you get like a boost in their grades and they're like, this is the one where I really had to go hard to beat.
Five African-American and five Mexican-American students can be appointed on scholarships and they'll, you know, they'll be athletes.
So if their athlete, you know, like he had to. Yeah, yeah. It's just this completely like. Oh, certainly. Yeah. That's not what they want it at all. Yeah. Yeah.
Pathetic sort of offer. And he's so defensive of it and he's just saying like this isn't enough, this is going to solve anything. But, you know, I am I'm, I'm a liberal and this is me offering. I can give you know, we need incremental change. He uses the phrase incremental change. Yeah. And that to me was just like powerful flashes to the present day.
I mean, it was when it was in and he was like, sure, incremental change, but it's too late, you know. I mean, yes, too. Like I think I personally don't have a problem with incremental change as long as it's done in a way that it kind of gets the end result the right time. You know what I mean? Like, I think, you know, there's times where you need the change now. And to bring that in slowly is just stupid, you know?
And then there's other times where, you know, obviously public opinion, though, that takes agents of change. So you need to bring change and slowly. But you need to start to, you know, with with a view to to end it the right time, you know, and I mean, this is something you and I differ on.
It's late, but like certainly in that situation is just so utterly. Yeah.
Offer any capitulations at all. Yeah. I think this is clearly a critique of the government at the time.
I feel or at least sort of the attitude that colleges are taking. You're probably right.
Probably regard. What else should we talk about? So I looked up the cinematographer one when we were talking about camera work, talking however long ago, and he did. He did. Easy Rider seems nice.
I've never seen that. Is it good? Have you not? It's pretty good. It's kind of really weird, but it's in a good way.
I might explain the shot. Yeah, that's true. I mean, there's there's a bunch of just to be clear, like the fish oil ends up.
Here's the moment. He says it's incremental. Change carry. It's the. Yeah. And you get sweaty faces like Pee wee man there is talking about. I mean, that was kind of a poppy show. But there is there's like one pop show in the rest of the film.
Oh, we had that kind of it's like you're watching Peep Show for like a minute. Yeah.
Like I say, like, it's more it's very well short film, but it will just it's mostly pretty normal, you know, and then, like, it will just very occasionally take these dips into very territory always for the better in front of.
Yeah, yeah. For sure. And yeah.
So do you want to maybe talk about the female lead because we haven't really discussed. Yeah. Somebody knows.
Mm hmm. John, Candice Bergen is her name and I've not seen her in anything else but she was pretty good however.
Well never mind. Who cares.
However, the play between them, between her and Harry was like so theatrical.
Like it was like they're having a formal a formal debate, you know, like watching a presidential debate or something every time they argued.
Well, the thing with them both is that they're very wrapped by their ideals. I think, particularly in John's case, where she's she's an activist like Harry, but she's sort of realizing that she does actually want a normal life. Yeah. Or figuring out how to admit that to both herself and to him. Yeah.
But I would say that she's maybe given kind of a short shot because most of her character is just sort of getting increasingly aggressive about the fact that she wants marriage.
Yes, exactly. Which Harry is not prepared to offer and he gets quite rude about because he clearly doesn't believe in as an institution. It's quite interesting, do you think? I mean, I feel like maybe it's just a sign of the times. Do you think people will get that aggressive? Not about my marriage and dealing with, like, not believing in it, as it were?
Um, yeah, I think. I think so. I can see I can definitely see that being a thing that because some people just don't see the point in it.
Well, this is definitely seeing the point tonight and saying, like the entire institution is like, yeah, but I feel like once you've once you've got that in your head, I mean, once you you know, you're OK, so maybe you don't see the point of it. And then but there might be other people that don't see the point of it and also think it's a bad thing. And I think once you get that in your head, like, yeah, that's you, because, you know, it's a big life decision, obviously getting married.
And if you if you decide at a certain point that you're not going to do it, I think to have that question or someone try and change it would just be like.
Yeah, I can see it for sure. It's certainly a lack of flexibility on his part, which I think the film does highlight for. Yeah, he's really in place. Yeah, well, that's again, that's the whole context of his character as well. So he's very small in his beliefs. He does have to pick a side, basically. Yeah. And this generational war, that's true. And it's constantly thrown into tension. But John's whole thing, she's so the film starts with Harry, like using her Archie.
He gets her to mark his work, not his students work for him. Yeah. And it's clear that, like, she's just all the time frame and then when he gets kicked out of his fly, he ends up staying with her. Yeah. Yeah. I got to do his laundry and everything. Like when she does love him, it's, you know, very erm and like you kind of feel like maybe she should move on. But then there's a very weird plot where it's not weird because you see that sort of thing all the time in films with time where she's just like I need to be married.
This doctor I've met is proposed to me so I might just marry him then.
It's like something from the 70s rather than the 1970s. How did that happen back then?
The people, just like you do occasionally see in films that people are just like, yeah, this guy randomly, not randomly, but just like we've known each other two weeks, he offered to marry me. It's like a conversational thing and I'm cool with it.
Yeah. I mean, I get like I was watching the D Day stuff last week and there's this, this woman is like, oh, I was a nurse. And then I met my husband. It was in the army and we got engaged after ten days or something. So it does happen or it did happen. But it just that's so weird to me.
It's yes. Very like I realise like obviously at that time getting married was like, it's not there's no expectations. There was something that you do. It seemed like she says, like if you're not married by 21, you will be an old maid.
That's true. Yeah. Which is not not the case anymore. Yeah, obviously. But yeah, it's just it's interesting. But again, I guess it's the thing of like if you got it so much in your head that you're going to get married, you know, and then the other person also does and it's very easy to, you know, just do it.
You know, if you had a thing for what the film is, that there are characters who are too trapped in our worldviews to sort of capitulate to any outsiders whatsoever, which is a very human trait, a very it is a very human trait, but as I say, is very present.
And Harry is quite present. And it's also present very much in the professors. Yet I'm not sure he probably doesn't deserve the title of the villain. But if there is a villainous figure in the film, it's definitely Harry's professor. His name's what's his name is Wilbur. It's an idea.
Yeah. And something dog's God's name is the name one. It teaches a class at the beginning. I don't know, from becoming a teacher. I don't know. All right, cool, cool. I mean, you've explained them well enough. I have clearly.
So he's the guy who teaches Harry and how his ambition is to become a teacher, but he constantly doubts Harry's ability in this matter. He starts off with a speech to power and he's saying, like, you want to teach, like the exceptional students and you want to teach the very underperforming students, but you have no interest in the education of the average student whatsoever. And I don't think you're prepared to be a teacher.
I mean, I think, you know, I think he had a point to an extent.
It's a very nice speech about teaching in France. And I don't think he's unsympathetic at all.
No, I think he just sort of stuck in his ways.
I think this is very much a film where Harry is usually in the wrong.
Yeah, yeah. Harry probably wouldn't be like a teacher, to be honest. Well, that's why I kind of wonder, because I don't know what makes a good teacher, you know, like, is it is it someone that's got this, like, passion and whatever or is it someone who just knows?
Well, when we do sort of see him teaching, he gets given like a remedial English class. Yeah, it does teach them and like they all love him in a way that does feel a bit. Yeah. He sleeps with one of them.
If I remember I was about to say he also like immediately enters into an inappropriate relationship with one of them.
Yeah. So, yeah. So he loves his class basically. Yeah. He's here. That's all I'm saying.
Like he's a good teacher in so much as he has this like passion for your work and his ideas because you've watched how I've met your mother, right.
All right. Well, the main character in How I Met your mother is his name's Ted Mosby. He's as I said, yeah, he's like a college professor after a certain point in the show. And the joke is that, like, because he's telling the story, like he tends to exaggerate things in his own way. It's one of the things as a joke is that all of his students love him unconditionally and they think he's the coolest thing that's ever existed.
Right. Like at Vibe as a joke is what I got from those scenes and get the straight.
It's it's kind of like Indiana Jones, right? Like, yeah, I guess.
Like, I no, no. In fairness, I never really got the impression that the kids in the classes actually liked him very much, although they're just attracted to him I think.
Yeah. Talking talking about Indiana Jones. It's a nice Segway. Harrison Oh yeah.
And this is Harrison Ford's first name rule, is it.
Yeah, he was. He is young as fuck in this.
He is disturbing. I'm saying to someone else, I really like Harrison Ford, like his entire sort of image is all based on being like slightly grizzled, like and I that sort of thing.
Yeah. Seeing him as sort of like this bright eyed. He's like a student teacher like clearly like just postmaster's of anything. Yeah. He's just like super young.
He's got this long mullet that goes like.
Well that's right, yeah. He's got he's not that good. Honestly I'm not really.
I thought he was great. Well I thought he was pretty good in so much as he was like playing Harrison Ford.
What was the thing like. He plays a very minor character, but like he does, I think it's just my own image of him. But like, he's supposed to be like or naive. I think it's sort of his character is supposed to be quite nice. He's not deep.
That's true. That's true. Harrison but he can see that that asshole doesn't in his films.
I'm not sure he needs to be an asshole. You just feel a certain tiredness to him usually.
I mean, yeah, tone is a bit too tired and can't be, you know. Yeah.
What's up here, which is like it doesn't want to settle, but like. Yeah, you can see why it may be another way to be. Yeah. Stars came out in 77, so it's seven years before his career really took off.
So so is do you see things. Star Wars is his first movie. Yeah, I think so. When he was one of the ones was an American Graffiti.
When Misery's was OK, who's a. For reasons I'll start with something that was. Yeah, I mean, I knew it was OK. And so talking about the cast, Elliott Gould. Yeah. Well, are you familiar with him?
Particularly only from Ocean's Eleven. I was about to say I was that was my question.
Like, what was this guy in? And you're supposed to say, I don't know. And that was like Ocean's Eleven.
He's about, oh, no, I'm sorry to ruin your joke. Which one was it?
He's the guy that did, like, camp the campy sort of the very aggressively Jewish accountant, right? Yeah, I think so, yeah.
Maybe I'm not. Well, I saw some of them, obviously. I don't remember it. No, I seen it. Just not for a while. Yeah. Still, he's the guy is a good thing.
He was also in March, which we've missed because I was about to say, like when we first started this, I was looking up like films that came out in 1970.
The big ones like, hey, the MASH film came out, but it came out and we missed it. So we're not allowed to watch it.
So we also we also missed Aristocats, which I know you're very disgusting.
Yeah, that's what I was hoping to start with.
But maybe we can do like a special, you know, I'm sure we'll find weeks where we won't be able to get stuff and hear backwards from.
And he was also in contagion, which I've not seen. It's very possible, very popular right now, very popular.
I think all the other streaming services are like promoting it, you know, people to watch. And Joel Susan, I know he was in the Muppets movie and also the Muppets take Manhattan, which I've seen.
And I don't remember him being in it, but I've not seen it for a long time. So whatever. So, yeah, I thought he was he was pretty good in film, but he was very he was very like Nicolas Cage, I felt.
What do you mean?
Like I liked his reactions to things like, you know, when you're watching Nicolas Cage film and he just like loses his shit and like pulls the weirdest.
I have always loved fuck you talk, you know, that's that was not that insane because it was one of the weird things about this film.
Like this is a film where Harry screams a lot. Yeah, I like the structure of a lot of scenes is that he put in a room with people who he doesn't want to be. He wants them to be things that he doesn't want. Yeah. And he just gets more and more wound up and then eventually explodes. Yeah, I'm. And to be fair, I don't want any more screaming matches, like, with the exception of one or two, can sometimes maybe come off as well as they could.
Yeah, they weren't they weren't great, although they kind of built up to the big the big run at the end, which is I mean, yeah, the big run to the end is fantastic, even if it is mostly made up of references have been.
I've not read The Great Gatsby and I'm still sort of somewhat on the topic.
This film is a comedy. Would you say you found it not funny?
No. No. Well, I find it comedic. I find it funny insomuch as I enjoyed myself watching it. But I don't think any particular laugh.
I would say moments was the exception. I think it like everything else, we all got funnier as we went along and introduced like I really cannot be exaggerated quite how dull the first 40 minutes are in comparison to everything else. Yeah, but I wouldn't say it was a laugh a minute thing, which is sort of what I was getting from the reviews I read. Oh really? Yeah, they were all quite positive. I think good old Gene Siskel was the one who was quite negative about it that I saw.
He also said it took way too long for the conflict to be established.
Yes, I think I think I'm more generous. I mean, we're kind of we're kind of like a modern day Siskel and Ebert. Right.
And clearly, I'm after their chair. I think the show still comes out there. All right.
We want to know about movies and so. Right, Tolkien, I had I had an opinion. Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry.
Yeah, it was, you know, the fact. So there are a free student protest films released that year as well as like a few others, like throughout the era. Don't spoil it. That made any money at all.
This was the only one who made any money. Yeah, it's the only one that was a commercial success. OK, I find interesting is interesting.
I wonder part of me wonders if maybe it plays quite well to someone who is maybe less interested in the issues or at least less willing to side with the students.
I think more than most other films, I suspect this film has a lot of reservations about student activism, ultimately side of it potentially, potentially, especially since the main character is kind of not one who doesn't like anyone, which is also quite useful if you're wanting to appeal to both sides.
Exactly. And. Although I did I did I did wonder if they were trying, if they were like trying almost too hard to be like progressive or like to trigger all people or something because there's a split. There's this right to start, like in the establishment where there's this like there's this black girl and a white girl walking alone next to each other and it's like zoomed in on them. And then like very obviously, like a black guy comes up with the white girl and like a.
Like, you know, a white light, basically, it turns out to be like two mixed race couples, right? And it's like very obviously, like zoomed in on them. Like, look at this. This is a college campus where, you know, races mix and people could do what they want. And I was wondering if that was like because there's another bit where, like there's a party.
And as these two girls look at each other and they're obviously like lesbians. And I was like, I was wondering if that's like to try and, like, trigger all people. Yeah, like this thing is you can't really tell the story at the time, but it really wouldn't surprise me if this film maybe wasn't as accurate about the student stuff that likes to pretend to be. Obviously, they wouldn't really know that sort of thing. And there are bits that certainly seem a bit strange, like.
What we're trying to ifone change when they were they were in like a cinema thing, watching like a sex ed video.
Yeah, was that was were they gang sex ed at university or were they watching it for, like. I guess I was thinking, as I said, I'm thinking about your chicken, but it's really weird because it is. Yeah, it's like I thought she was like a biology student as well.
So I was like, she don't know this shit like. I mean, trying to think was obviously like Figley in America, I imagine that high school was maybe a bit more restrictive, depending on where you were. So maybe like the I'm sure she was just supervising possible part of it.
Maybe. Oh, maybe. Maybe you're right.
I guess it wouldn't surprise me if there were people who just needed to have their sex life in college.
Yeah, it could be could have been good.
I mean, you know, I mean, he also he also made a joke about it where he showed something and they all laughed. So maybe it's maybe it's something where, like, they already know all this stuff, but they had to go to the. Well, I mean, you some you know, some like program where they have to use it.
I don't know what was going to say just whilst we're still talking about John, because I forgot to mention this is very early on after a very weird sex scene where Harry gold socks her toes. Oh, and I hate to play that. Absolutely. Having a whale of a time. Yeah, I had to point about that, but go first.
So I'm going to say immediately after that, she said she says she's pregnant. Yeah. It's get a reaction out of him and say she's just like, no, I'm not. She was just being just manipulative.
It was just a little prank then. This is like maybe her first scene. It's yeah.
Very is I think is genuinely the worst thing any non member of the police character does.
Well, yeah, it was pretty awful. Yeah. He's like, what the fuck. And Yeah. It was about things like, know, God, I had to point the toe sucking, so the first thing was I was wondering because it seemed that they were trying very hard to show, like its little skin is possible.
And I was thinking, like, I see the only reason they were the fourth. I was thinking I was thinking like, are they are they censoring this? Like, are they trying to, you know, like, show cunnilingus? If I actually showing it, you know, like, oh, yeah. You know, they're showing, like, such a little thing.
But then I'm sitting there and then I went to the film. He had sex with this other girl and she's just there's like a fully nude chauffeur. Oh, yeah.
So I was like, OK, so it's not a sensitive thing. So is this like a Tarantino situation where like L.A. Gould's like I wanted to write the writers, like I want to see illegal sucking Candice Bergen shows.
And just like, oh, just be like really weird about it. Like, it's a very strange position for to something because they're basically sixty-nine, but with. Yeah. It was weird I assume is the natural thing why one person would lean like me at the end of a scene and that's just my assumption.
So as a no no, not at the very least. I can't imagine that. Like having having your toes sucked by Elliott Gold while she was also right in your face faces.
You know, I wouldn't you wouldn't think so. It was just it was weird. And it clearly was an essential thing because like, you know, there's other nudity in the film. And so that was interesting. So another another I think I think this is a Segway because I think it was the same scene that might not have been. So there's this really cool, like, editing thing, which is like something like it was like almost like a modern film technique where he he's like carrying his laundry.
You gets kicked out and he's got his laundry and he's carrying the same thing and the camera like zooms in, in the bag and then it zooms out and he's in her room with like laundry there. Oh, yeah. I was like I was like, man, that was pretty cool because it's a match to you. Yeah. Matko it was a matko but it was like I know.
So, so obviously match cuts are nothing new, but it was like a perfect there's like a perfect match where like the bag was exactly the same and I was like how did he do that in 1970. Like the lighting it like it was, it was exactly the same and I was like there's no way this was like computer generated or something.
So like I guess you just have to be super careful with your lighting. Yeah.
Lighting and like having exactly the same set up. And I guess maybe, maybe they faded between it and I didn't really know notice. So I just find that really cool because he like chokes back as well in the first bit. So it's not even like it was placed carefree, like he chucks it and then yeah. I just find it cool.
It was a cool thing, it was a cool thing and OK, so I can bring in my own little bit of thematic analysis. Not that you've been able to show off. You're actually relevant. McGree the one thing that I did find is that there's a bit towards the end, again in this discussion where often where the dean off of the incremental change, where he talks about whether people should be able to operate, should be forced to obey laws if they don't think they are just.
Yeah, which very much goes to this sort of debate between sort of legal positivism and natural law and this idea, that kind of law will be violent if it is immoral. Yeah. Which is a very interesting topic. Obviously, the correct answer is obviously you don't have to be sure. That's my legal scholar analysis. Right.
I kind of like Jamie. I kind of zoned out for that. Thank you for providing such entertainment to ensure that it was really good.
Thank you. OK, what else. Well so don't say. Oh so another bit.
The fucking was just funny as fuck it was when they felt like they were, it was at the protest and the guy was like shouting at a police officer, like trying to taunt him.
Right. Oh yeah. And then, and then the, the, the riot starts and the fire happens and the guy just fucking like kung fu kicks. This police officer like right in the head knocked him out. And I was like, what the fuck? This guy is like a kung fu master.
It's just like if you hate least I was a very good fellow. This is the film for you.
If you hate pigs. Yeah, they use the word pig an awful lot, but I mean always just who the fuck like kung fu kicks straight for a guy.
It's full riot gear. Yeah. Yeah.
He like jumps up and kicks him. I don't know how effective the riot gear is because like Harry Harry, it's one of his like turning point things is when he punches the policeman and that guy just goes straight down despite wearing riot gear. SPAC everyone knows that. Clearly. Clearly.
Um, and. All right. Is there anything else I wanted to ask about. Oh, we should maybe talk about OK. Oh no, no, you go. You go. OK, I got two things I would want to talk about.
Firstly, there is only one black character in the film. Yes, my character's sorry. There's one black guy and then one black girl who has no purpose in the film other than sleep with her.
That's right. Correct. And there's also the black people at the Star, the mixed race couple.
Oh, yeah. You know, so I guess as the sole point of representation that he stands out to you in any way or, um.
No, no, not really. Socially, he was fine. Yeah, he was doing this whole deal is he's very passionate about his black history. Yes. You know, good for him. But he's got the other pressure point is to pressure Harry constantly into a campaigning for him and then pretend I'm saying that Harry is not legitimate. Yeah. And then always he challenges Harry constantly and is never successful in any way. He's never allowed a victory. I suppose is maybe the weird thing, like his moment of triumph in the film is when Harry Daley he's at the very end of the film in the right is smashing windows classrooms.
And Harry Daley just gives them a nod. Yeah, it's like the highlight of his film. Everything else is him saying, like, how are you? Don't know how I struggled as a black man. And then Harry saying, actually I did.
I get shot pretty much.
Yeah, I guess I guess that kind of links to the thing I was saying earlier about the article where it's kind of like a very. Like he had a chip and a chip on his shoulder. I don't know, maybe I said that going to say, but, you know, I mean, like, he's yeah. So so something interesting about the actor, because I was looking I was looking for the cast. He didn't look familiar.
Well, he did to me as well, but I didn't recognize any films he'd been in. But he was in one called The Black Clansman from 1966. Oh, cool.
Did you know that there was a film called that before?
I didn't know this completely unrelated black KKK Klansman, but it's completely unrelated and to the Spike Lee joint as a cult.
But he seems to be a film that has a white guy playing like a black guy and oh, like in blackface or just ignoring it.
No. So he's supposed to be like very light skinned, black and all. Everything I've read is like I can't really tell from some black and white, but he seems to just be a white guy.
And it's like it's like a very it's way worse. No, no, no.
The guy I back, the main character in this other film and yeah, we can tell it's in black or white, but he seems to be seems to like it and he like infiltrates the KKK and and all that stuff, but like it's actually him rather than black comes and where it's like over the phone like he actually infiltrates it. I find it interesting. It's totally unrelated to the Spike Lee film or to this film, but just my work on that guy on that day.
Yeah. So what I was going to say is a sort of final topic and the ending is the. Presentation of homosexuality, I think, is actually one of the more interesting things, right? I would go so far as to say that I don't think the films are supportive of it in general. This is a sort of scene towards the very beginning where, like Nick says, like to Harry, like, oh, you're going to. What are you going to do as a teacher, man, like you're going to end up with some, like new workplace in Arizona or something, it has was like, oh, you shouldn't not Arizona, man, that's got the lowest rates of lung cancer, homosexuality in crops.
And I think that was I mean, that seemed to to me that right. As a reference to America as a whole would think of the place rather than I didn't realize like the filmmaker or the character. I don't know.
No, no. I don't think that's like sort of stake through the heart of things I. It's never rarely directly mentioned. Yeah. I was going to say, I mean, you know, this is a generally dismissed anything. He pretends to be gay, to not get drafted.
Oh yeah, that's right. I don't know which didn't last very long. It like. He does like stupid, effeminate voice, right? Oh, no, he does. You expect that to be like an extended bit? I would last like half an hour, about like three minutes.
Yeah, I mean, I do. I didn't really I think it was I didn't really see the homosexuality being particularly prevalent in the film.
I think I think it's conspicuous in its absence. Yes.
I think I think they just sort of try to avoid dealing with it because every other issue or every other issue, but like every other issues are presented in the film, is like something which you can tell. Oh, yeah. That was very relevant at the time. That was that was a hot button topic. Was that homosexuality at least conspicuous by its general sense?
I mean, I guess I guess the whole thing, but like, he couldn't join the army. He's gay and like, yeah, the stuff like the Arizona I mean, lowest homosexuality.
Sounds like a couple like Harry Dalys, like I'm no homosexual sex rule or something. Like he's clearly you know, he's not a fan of being called the very least.
But I think that's that's just that's a thing of the time, you know.
Yeah, well, it's the thing of the time would persist for at least 30 years, even if we're being generous and we're going to be we're going to be when we when we do this podcast in four years, maybe we get our first good representation. We're going to be so happy. I forget what the first gave me. So I was going to say that the time where homosexuality perhaps comes up the most prevalently, however, is the ending, which we should now talk about as if we want to.
So at the end of the film, Harry Daly by his professor has been denied the opportunity to become a teacher. He's not going to get his education credit because he got nicked cheating the exam for him. And the professor who found out is the one who doesn't believe in him and doesn't feel he deserves the chance to be a teacher. Yeah, so he's very cut off about it is you know, you can still get his masters. They'll just it'll be a masters in English.
You won't be able to become a teacher. Yeah.
So he does sort of all that he's been revising for throughout the film. A lot of the film does actually revolve around him, like just trying to find a quiet place to study. Yeah. Which I liked a lot. Yeah.
That's relatable content is you know, I'm going to interrupt you for a second. Thank you.
But on this, while we're on this topic, I kind of I kind of feel I kind of feel for him.
Right. Yeah. You know, I'm I'm only inferred you. Well, I guess a finished first and now I'm going to vote for you. And, you know, all these fucking whippersnappers are coming in in fresher's. And, you know, I like I like to have a party. But, man, these guys are just partying all the time. And, you know, I did it two years ago forever, but maybe not as much. But still, I did it, you know, a bit in the party and all the time and, you know, like, oh, you should come out, you should do this.
And I'm like, man, I just want to, like, go to bed at like midnight or something or, you know, you know, maybe a little bit into the morning. But I want to play video games. I want to watch films. I want, you know, do some work. I've got loads of work to do. You know, I just want to, you know, fuck, I don't want to be like.
Yeah, like I do. I think one of the slightly weird things about university, like I guess like maybe just because it's like such a time of change, I suppose it's not like first year or so different compared to anything like maybe like just once you get like first year and then like to like postgraduate students and everything. Yeah. Such divide like Harry Dalu is a lot older. I guess we should maybe discuss them any really any of the students I think.
Yeah. He went to Vietnam for six years, six years. So I don't know, I guess he's in his late 20s and yeah. Late twenties would maybe be the age was I think pretty clearly early 20s. Very late teens. Yeah. Or at least it's supposed to be obviously it's you know, it's a film that played by mid twenty year old. Yeah. Let's see. They're going for it. I guess it's part of how you feel so isolated.
But then again, I kind of feel like once you want your past first year, something much of a second year like, everyone's the same. Yeah. Like I know people that are like in their mid 20s or late 20s and, you know.
Well, yeah, it's like you're an adult at that point, you know.
Yeah. And I don't mean to be weird about it.
No, I know. You know, you never worried about anything, man. I know that I'm never we're never weird, but I just. Yeah. I find I did kind of relate to him in a weird way, like, you know, I don't I don't want people pressuring me to join the protest or whatever.
But, you know, just like usually one of the slightly maybe slightly weirder things is that like Harry Harris forced to sell his tax breaks, like for early on in the film or pay rent, although he doesn't to do that anyway. Yeah. And he just has to go through, like, his entire sort of examination without any basis of upon, which is like, well, no, he's got his library card.
Yes, I'm from the library, but like, yeah, he sends a bunch in the library just and then like yeah. He says like he saw this at the laundromat because that gives them like twenty five and like a free hour.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's real.
The struggle is real, you know, like our library has these fucking big holes in the middle. We're like it's like a great library but man it's so loud sometimes.
Oh yeah. Well like the problem with like having a library on the university campus, like I. Need to use all the time, so like, well, the gets the piece. No, actually, not everyone needs to fucking use it. People use it. They don't need to like if I say first year in the library, I'm like, what are you doing?
You know, just go, go.
Unless unless you have an exam, like the next day, you've got an essay due like that day or whatever, and you do, you know, just go home, you know, like there's people in there that are writing essays. They're like three times as long or doing a dissertation or whatever, you know, even even as a fridge. I don't eat at the library that much.
Yeah. You know, I think save it for the first year, for four years.
And got to be fair, I think I can count on maybe 100 times I had to go to the library to like find an actual book, like specifically rather than just like I need a place to work. Yeah.
I mean, you know, like sometimes it's good to go and, like, find a book because, you know, it can it can set your essay apart because it's not something to say. Yeah, but yeah, there are you know, there was a time when. I don't being physically and that he moves on to his or her world, examples of this panel filled with a bunch of I guess they're just sort of scholars. Well, boomers of their silent.
The greatest generation. The greatest generation. The Christian right thinks so. But, you know, we know those would be all of them because it wasn't as in as in the equivalent.
Their attitudes there, they are very, very big matches. They are Harry's dreaded establishment reckoning, which is what which is.
Well, Harry's generation has come. They has become. They. Yeah.
So Harry, this is all it seems to be going quite well. The panel seem fairly impressive. Some then like one of the panel members, sort of some like sort of offhandedly, hey, who's your favorite contemporary offer?
And Harry says, Oh, I like F. Scott Fitzgerald, which is mentioned before. This is very kind of, you know, and he's like, oh, OK, what's your favorite, Scott Fitzgerald?
He says, Oh, I like The Great Gatsby. Yeah. And then like a point of mild interest, at least to me, is that the stroller sounds like actually it's generally considered the greatest of estos. Fitzgerald's work is like gently goes good night or something is a different Norm Gatsby, which is like a minor point, but is interesting to see how critical any of this change I think is. Of course not to get anyone without Gatsby's. Is more notable work, and so that is just The Great Gatsby.
And then it's like, so what speaks to you about it? And it's like, Oh, I like Gatsby side. Sort of a story of trying to buy back happiness from a life where it's had to sacrifice his happiness in order to gain. Well, yeah, I know that they talk a bit about Nick Caraways point of view and they sculler posits that Nick is in love with Gatsby and Harry Dalys. Like I, he clearly doesn't believe it, but he's talking now.
He's like, I can see why you think that. Interesting. I see a lot of people talk about inequality in case, you know, it's also my sister.
I mean, yeah, Schouler sort of goes quite a big step further and says that, like, it's clearly a sort of general sort of his own repressed homosexuality on the page.
Yeah. Like this is like, you know, conclusive proof. Like Harry must agree with this. Surely everyone knows he used the exact phrase. Everyone knows this. Yeah. Inlight you could tell that. I was just going, like, completely fucking mentally cannot possibly handle this. He hates it more than anything in the world. And then he just explodes and he yells, it's going to be a surprise that she Sheilagh about him, which is not a reference I get, although I gather he's a gossip columnist.
Yeah. And then he, like, stands on the table. He does a little dance. He screams about how Great Gatsby and Fitzgerald are. He pours water on the head of the stroller. There's the whole oh, I can't believe this. And he walks out unlike the professor at the front and was like, hey, do you want to talk about syntaxes? Like, Nah, I want to talk about this. Yeah. And then eventually the riot reaches the office on the ends.
But like, it's just sort of sat there, so dripping with water from the water. You sprayed everyone. So kneel down. Yeah, it's all below. It's so funny as a climax. What was what was your opinion on that.
Um, I, I like to climax. I Fosgate, I, I kind of I felt it was kind of funny. It's like, it's like his whole thing, you know, you know that like classic like meme or like I guess Internet thing of like bloody English teachers overanalyzing everything.
Yeah. Like that thing. It kind of felt like the whole film was just him rebelling against it, like that was his first focus. This guy is not gay. Like he could be gay doesn't mean he's gay. All this stuff like the curtains aren't blue for blue curtains.
You know, it was like that was like the fucking climax of the film, which I found quite funny.
But obviously other stuff repressed go on a massive tangent. I hate that. I mean, more than anything in the entire world. Oh, scene is genuine. It's I very much understand the sentiment behind it because, yeah, it's obviously something that is written down is. It's obviously like occasionally true, but it is also clearly told from the perspective of a student who was told once, like there are themes in this working on a story about a whale.
So sorry, folks, lodhia with you that if anyone were back listening and got you know, if any of you as part of your tuned in fan of your tuned in here and your, you know, a little break there, just ignore it.
I didn't know if anyone actually listens to the thing. My comments, comment, comment down below. If you if you if you stayed this long, you know, that thing like like people feel like a secret thing come in.
I mean, this is this isn't an embarrassing technical error. This is actually a fun audio EROI test, but it's close.
What's the quote that you're going to use as a title for this one?
Yeah, it was it was something I wasn't.
It was lung cancer, homosexuality and crimes. Right. Right.
And then the other one the other one we're were thinking of is the little girl's one, right?
Yeah, that seems a bit racy. But what was that one?
It was money, power, little girls to molest. OK, so so if you're if you're still here, Komen money, money, power and little girls, well, then we'll know you're a real one.
You know, you're real.
A real fan. We can call out we call our families. The kids are now.
Oh, there's hold holding the kiddie village. Jesus Christ. Right.
So we were talking about our mutual hatred for the cartoons. I fucking believe me.
Yeah, well, I wouldn't say.
I think your hatred, my heart dislike my sort of indifference to where I think it has a point, but it also doesn't have a point. He goes too far. I think there's a point made by debate. You can overanalyze everything.
It's a valid sometimes, but it's clearly coming from the perspective of someone who's 15 years old as just that. Sometimes I feel like some sometimes, you know, sometimes maybe more like films and stuff rather than books. But, you know, sometimes the curtains are just bleak. Yeah, they're just blue curtains, but sometimes the curtains are blue for a reason.
Well, I suppose, you know, to go on a massive tangent, like in the film, there's a lot more stuff that can be shown unintentionally, as it were. Oh, yeah. Great question. It was anything mentioned. The cast have been specifically chosen to be my thought that perhaps that is true, I think.
But I think even it has been followed doesn't mean I mean, I suppose even the film, like the set designer, is still going to look for the car. Exactly. Exactly. Well, even if it's just like blue looks nice and exactly.
Anyway, and so Harry's great rebellion in the context of this thing, he despises the establishment. He rises up against them and says, no, Scott Fitzgerald was straight, you nasty man, in many words. So I thought one of the slightly weirder things about this as a sort of rise up against the establishment is that like the establishment viewpoint in this scene regarding The Great Gatsby, it's like kind of unconventional, you know?
I mean, like, well, it sounds like it is incredibly conventional, though. It's not, because it sounds like everyone knows it. Like I looked up, I looked up and it was this guy, like, I just found out that this guy's gay, Nick Carraway or because I thought so.
Yeah, like, I'm not saying it's not something everyone knows. It's just like, yeah, I would maybe in a modern context, I would expect the scene to be like, you know, they're not gay, you know, or something like that. It's just it's it's what I assume would be the progressive view of the I and I don't I don't think he's rebelling against them because they're not progressive.
I think he's just he's just too much too much for him.
It's nothing it's nothing to do with the actual view like he could. It could literally be a different, totally different thing. Oh, yeah, I know.
It was it was secretly written by women like, you know, we were reading the Shakespeare text and had this line in it, which is a secret.
But we like they were like, oh, we all know that. Like Shakespeare was actually Christopher Marlowe. Exactly. Exactly. And he's like fucking like it's I don't think the writing has anything to do. No. It's just a terrible situation.
He's been employed as far as I actually like talking about that, like a choice. I should have made more sense to me as if they were like, oh, we know Shakespeare didn't write this place because he would have been illiterate or something like that. Like a good education. Right. Whereas I suppose just as a choice of you to say, like the hidden homosexual subtext in The Great Gatsby, I thought was an interesting choice. I guess just.
Yes, it was funny, perhaps. Yeah. A bad thing to say. So I just that made me realize analyzing. Maybe, maybe, maybe. Yeah, I don't know, I feel like maybe it was just a point that the guy wanted to make the director. We don't talk to him.
No. Richard Rush. Do I know him? Probably not.
I looked him out. He's got like ten, ten films or something on Google films about this. And his most famous ones is he called the stuntmen from like 10 years later. Never, never heard of it. And I've seen it. But yeah, I didn't really I know I probably should've looked into him more. He's Canadian, Zinat. He's alive. He's 91 years old. He's alive.
Good for him. Good for him. Let's go door down and ask him why he chose The Great Gatsby.
As we could do. We could. Yeah, he seems to all of his film posters seems to be the same as your green getting street one. Oh, like this this film called Sicko, which is like a bunch of pink stuff and, you know, like some woman in a bikini and bunch of animals and they all seem to be much the same poster, basically.
I was talking about that poster that doesn't seem to be another poster. Have you seen the other one? I have not seen the other one orange.
It's like orange. And it says Americans children laid on the line. And it's a lot more sort of conservative and and normal. Normal. Maybe that's the wrong way to be, you know?
I mean, that's what my standard, I guess the exact same thing as normal. Yeah. Yeah.
The other thing that comes up when you look up King Street is the shot through her legs. Oh, yeah.
I forgot about that. That is. I quite like that basically.
Yeah. You raise any good shit. When did you graduate.
I think graduates of the late 60s I think is. Yeah. 1967. Yeah.
So it's just I guess it's a rip off.
Well it's not exactly similar to your undergraduate is supposed to emphasize Mrs. Robinson's legs, whereas shot in this was very much like the vagina. So it's pretty funny.
I find it I find it very funny that he's like, it's really it was a funny guy reference. The funny thing is a reference novikoff regarding me. Yeah, exactly.
It's a reference. It's funny. He was like trying to focus on what he was saying and yeah, it was, it was just is like a funny, funny little thing.
So after that he goes out, he joins the student protest, he says to his lady love it doesn't belong with them, he belongs here and she says that she didn't marry the doctor because she didn't like him, which is a reason not to marry someone something.
And they all live happily ever after, constantly arguing because they all got married at the age of 22.
And yet for the rest of their lives, 22, super late. There were Super Bowls when you got married, both old miss, the whole maids get married. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah.
What did you think of the film overall? I quite liked it. I enjoyed it and I didn't I didn't think it made any particularly huge points about much, but it certainly had that kind of aspect to it. It was relatively funny. CASPARI Good. I liked it. Good.
I would have said the exact opposite. I thought the thing is, like I say, the first 40 minutes or so, I just deafly boring. I don't think I'd watch it again. And because of that, maybe I'd enjoy it more knowing it was leading to, but once it started introducing its more blissful elements and really started digging into that sort of hurried struggle and sort of the world constraints, every time I did find it a much more enjoyable film, I realized by the end I was really enjoying myself.
I think the last not to keep doing weird timing thing. I think the last half hour or so in particular is really both very funny and very powerful.
OK, we're back and I'm also on my phone and recording. My phone is on the computer. Thanks to all of you. Please note that I have not had any other issues.
I guess we both have like 60 minutes of it.
So I think we got the was like our final thoughts on the film.
Yeah, we both like the film. We wouldn't recommend that anyone go all the way to see it, but we like it. Yeah, I would say that's pretty much I don't know. I mean, I guess some of your audio might be saved. So it might be that I mean, after my review and then we have yours. So I don't know.
We can will see if we've reached the point where we don't really care, but we can put through what we thought to be.
So if you make it this far, you can follow Jamie and don't don't care about the show anymore. They're not giving the fans what they need.
You can do that. That's something you. So I think the the first thing we talked about was the mixed response it seems to have on.
Yeah. It was a very critical response, a furious response. Everything was it's fine. Why would anyone why would anyone truly hate it unless they dislike the use.
Exactly. Oh, my. OK, my my audacity is already so degrading. This is all going to be my phone. So apologies. Apologize for the quality drop quality I know might be better quality.
You know it's good test. Duncan is bad at using audacity. This is the only lesson that anyone needs to take from this.
I don't need to pretend we're using like a professional podcast software. We're OK.
So Dunkin's drops as Mike in our professional recording studio into his Golden Talkies branded coffee mugs. Exactly what you think.
Hopefully, Lisa, our assistant, will be able to get him to replace Lisa.
Lisa? Yes, yes. Yes. Oh, can you get in on the mike, bitch? I don't treat women like that. That's terrible.
Right now, Harry is how Harry from the film is doing now is a little bit OK.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Lisa. Oh, it's all right.
I'm OK. So she pays us to work here.
So hopefully, hopefully we we have got a review of the film down and yeah, we're a bit confused about why it is such a mixed response, but I guess you either love or hate it, you know.
So and we then talked about the headlines from the time or the news stories and notable stuff that is going on at the time. And the first one I brought up was that Quebec from Canada, Quebec from Canada, and not one right from Canada.
And the province in Canada is a province right area.
And I had elections the week before before the phone came out and the pro union party won the Pro Canada Party, one which is very different from the last election in which they did pro Independence Party one indeed.
And then we had we had a conversation about Quebec back in Independence, Quebec.
Whatever independence, Duncan is more skeptical about it.
I am with that as a I watch a YouTube Kajiji. MacCulloch I started watching quite recently and he has pretty strong opinions about it. And I kind of agree with him that they kind of seem to want independence for independence sake, but they don't want to have to do anything. They want all the benefits of being Canada without any of the the problems that come with it. It's kind of like Brexit. I'm with them because he's pissed off.
Right, because you're a you're a radical and I'm a radical. So independence movement.
I'm not a student in the film. He says, come here, piggy pig. And then karate chops.
No, he kung fu kung fu kicked him in, kick some time for him.
And so yeah, that was. And you were in Canada obviously I was a year. You can I have the expert expert. So you've been to Quebec, you've seen all the French signs. Exactly. I don't wish I wish the recording hadn't stopped because we had a proper conversation about this.
Yeah. I'm sure people like podcast when they just sort of rail through the subject.
That's why you listen to them, isn't it? Yeah. It's not supposed to be wanting to be like information. Exactly. It's nice to see like a relaxing background conversations.
No one wants to hear fucking discussions.
They want to hear opinions and in context, pretty poorly formed opinions that are, you know, you really do not know what they're talking about. We don't know why we're talking about. But we have we I yeah. So I said, that's OK.
That was so we talked a bit about the political background, the time obviously Britton's. Sort of to set the groundwork for more films and set in the 70s, Britain's Harold Wilson's government, the entrenched in the postwar consensus. Yeah, but old and Adam and Jamie, why? Why were they defeated?
That's a fun mystery, which we will find out. Oh, I hope we're going to. OK, well, yeah, OK. Oh, right, no. What was the what was the reason there is England lost to West Germany in the World Cup quarterfinals? Oh yeah, apparently, according to Wikipedia and then the BBC article that they'd say it said nothing of the sort, really. They just mentioned it might have been a slight thing, but anyway.
So the reason we were talking about that was because we were talking about what songs were number one at the time it was back home by the England World Cup squad was number one in the UK and much like it was A, B, C by the Jackson five, which was the other, there's a song that sounds identical.
I want to complete.
Oh shit. You're right. And give me one more. Oh, baby, give me one. Show me you love me. I want you back. I was like, yeah, they're very similar. Yeah, they sound exactly the same. I hate it but I always got them.
And Michael Jackson stole from himself and inspired four brothers. Yes.
Should be ashamed. That is the Jackson five something as well wasn't it.
ABC, the Jackson five song I Want You Back is the Michael Jackson No. Why won't you buy to fucking Jackson five song me crazy man. Is it know maybe.
Probably I think it is. I think, I think they're just the same song. Yeah. I want you back is what the Jackson five anyway.
Well I think that ABCs number one, you know, it was it was in the top ten.
I didn't recognize I didn't recognize what number one was. Oh, right. I just picked out no bones to me. So it was ABC Spirit in the Sky was also in the top ten by the Guardians of the Galaxy.
Two soundtracks, one by man. We're we're really for this. This is really this is a real shame.
It's a real shame that the audio has been lost and that we can be bothered pretending to discuss it again. Yeah, but anyway, we're doing it. I'm certain this guy by Guardians of the Galaxy was in the top ten and let it be was in the top ten. Yeah.
When The Beatles broke up. Exactly, Duncan said. The film premiered this week.
The film premiered in New York City today.
Yeah, today it is fifty years ago, which hopefully means that we can talk about it at some point because opinions on the March on the Beatles and man, once again, I was about to say something and I've lost my train of thought and disgusting wreck.
That's terrible, man. I that was I wish he was about to say something and it is gone. So anyway, that was I think that was basically what we thought.
Oh yeah. We're doing a brand I may fucking put some effort in man. Sorry. Or be doing next week.
Jamie we're doing Brand and X. Yeah. That's next week's.
That's a comedy film about a band that will probably be quite a lot of those because that's what people are into in 1970 something.
OK, so then we then we just had a conversation and you know, if people listen to talk they they to the podcast and they've heard me for an hour and a half, maybe, maybe next week will will incorporate more morality's into it.
Maybe not. You know, it depends on how much the permits are great. We had a lot to talk about for the film this week, maybe other weeks. We won't have so much film and we can just talk about.
So, yeah, this is only an hour, so maybe we'll be less. Exactly.
So something very, very quickly. Last last point. Fifty years ago, the days were the same, I think. Oh, well, I think it was a Wednesday today. All right.
I'm actually going to look up to me. That is interesting. I find it incredibly interesting. I might be wrong. I might just make it up. Yeah. Wednesday, May 13th, 1970.
Wow. So that's an extra special Easter egg for me about Jimmy.
You know, it might might not be it might be that that's the thing that fifty years is the same day. Like we might just be the dumbest fucking guys. I'm sure.
I think it repeats every. You six were done. I know every piece every four years, right? No, no, obviously not. That's not what most people know.
What I'm thinking, leap year is going to be a leap year like the week and the day move forward by one most years.
So it would be easy to work with only three years.
It makes maybe, you know, they take leap seconds once every hundred years or so or something. Really? Yeah. Just like the actual it's like it's like a quarter and a bit.
Oh I thought it was exactly a quarter like it's just like a tiny white woman looking up.
How regularly do the days of a year repeat themselves.
That's not going to be a cliffhanger for next week. We'll work out like, OK, let's let's work open. You're right. OK, let's let's call it let's call it quits. Let's call it a day.
I apologize for my other issues.
Hopefully, hopefully this last ten minutes is a big jump at the best part of the entire thing is a bit jumping ship, but the rest of it hopefully has been entertaining.
I hope you enjoy it. OK, I hope you enjoyed golden turkeys and oh hopefully going to that then we. Yeah.
We really want to change the name. We might change it.
You know, you might be listening to this and you're like, why do they keep saying golden turkeys. This is called, this is called dunking Jim. Something good for a bit.
That's that's donkey's name for the podcast. I'm not a fan I want to see. Yes. But we also see what I see because we I for now talk is his name.
We should we should wind up. I hope you enjoy it. Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you for off. Now watch what's going straight.
Watch what you Windex or anything else notes on that sign for free.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. We fuck. We're going through it. It's available.
Oh it's available on Amazon to rent for point fifty. Yeah. I honestly don't know if you've got Amazon Prime. Just watch something else. That's true.
If, if this film if you can. OK, I think that's the recommendation system. Right.
This film, if it's on TV or if you get given is genuinely free on some of it's on some streaming service.
Watch it. Don't buy it. Yeah right. I think that's a rating system. Yeah. That's, that's a good ratings. You know, it's like so maybe, maybe we have, we have like don't, don't watch it, watch it. If it's on like or if someone offers. Yeah. And by the way if it's free. Rent it or like a. fucking Korean collection. I don't know the.
I don't know.
But that's that's our unofficial rating system where we eventually get SISSELA.
So thanks to today's sponsor, take me back to you. That really must be they're not they're not. I don't I don't think I don't think you're supposed to say I when you're supposed to say that people are want you in not.
I don't think that something is done considering they are sponsoring this.
I'm looking at my solid gold car. Right. Oh, really? Yeah. It's a calendar on it. Taking us back. Right.
Let's call it the solid gold. Let's call it a day by the state.
Bye bye bye.