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All right, everyone, I no, I did the all right, messed up all this shit, so and this will be a fun story for everyone.


That's right now. So, Jamie, before we get to the film, you know how we've you know, we've started our tradition of this tradition of a new soft drink every episode for me. OK. So I have here I'm not going I'm not going to video record myself, I'll just give you the the voice opinion I've got here. Luke said, revive orange and passionfruit with B vitamins to help reduce tiredness right here in this. There's something here.




I've never heard of Lucozade revive. What makes a difference. It looks like it's for or look at the energy look exhausted. Right.


Yeah, it's new. Jamie, I don't know. I guess it's meant to revive you rather than like OK, here we go. No, not truly inspired uplift like a breath of fresh air, splash of water to the face looks sader five is a perfect revitalizing little lift right when you need it.


Take a break and awaken your taste buds of this light is sparking naturally fruity drink contains B vitamins so you can feel refreshed and get back to doing what you do best. So to me, that sounds a lot like just normal looks. And I'm pretty sure that's a pretty smooth, normal looking side.


And the other two types look side, which were already also energy drinks.


Well, OK, so this may be more natural or anyway, I'm going to take a sip of it now. You're ready. Go. I'm just having to, um. Hmm hmm. OK, so it's a lot less flavorful than other leukocyte, and, you know, when you get well, it's a brand of sort of sparkling water ice or something like that. And it's like flavored sparkling water.


Oh, well, will do OK.


I think it's I think it's a bit stronger than that than sparkling water. But there's a brand. I think it's ice.


Oh. Do you mean Lacroix maybe. No, no. I mean ice and but that might be the same thing. So it's colored. It's flavored. You know, it's not just like water. It's not just like strawberry water. It tastes like it's definitely a juice drink, but it's definitely more sort of watery than other ones. But, you know, taste fine is fine. What the hell do I try it?


Have you ever drunk did you ever try this thing with the coca left or the green bottle bottle?


No, I'm not a Coca-Cola man.


I was awful genuinely. I think it kind of came on well within a month. It was just so terrible. Yeah, I was the natural sugars of regular sugar. Regular natural. Right.


Very interesting. So and that's the soft drink talk. And, you know, I've realized that we've not told listeners what this podcast is about for the last few episodes. And we might we might have new listeners. And I mean, I think any of them was actually on the flight we have left at this point after clicking on a video of a catch 22.


And Tillerson does talk about soft drinks for a few minutes. But, uh, we watch films that came out 50 years ago this week. Yeah.


Although we messed up the date this week. Did we know when I came in and I was going to fine tune, OK, came out and a gene, which I believe is a Sunday. Yeah.


It sounds like the barrier of our acceptable dates.


I don't have any of his Mr. Misses, any of his misses, how we missed this and or any of the crew member jambia first episode we had to crew.


What was the name. Lisa. Yeah, Lisa, she was right. Lisa, forget about this. I think we should. Yeah, I think I think we should fire Lisa. This is 24th of June, you fool us.


I looked up and it did not say that catching people I imdb it says 24 Fujio the focus was almost like dizygotic, like every every time I feel like that's just like you're on the right.


OK, well, we finally got Wikipedia on Wikipedia, the great movie database in the Sky. I'm looking at Wikipedian, this is 21st June, so, well, 24. Absolutely not a problem. No problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.


It's sort of true. But on the other hand, I do want to be right. So I'm just we look through it and see if got a fucking.


Well, you're in your microphone's really fucking up my ear, by the way, do you want to switch to 4G or you just with.


I mean, I'm assuming you'll be fine for the podcast.


Listen. Yeah, I think well, I think it's going better. OK, if you say so, bro, so yeah, we didn't catch on to 1970 and came out Sunday, June the 21st, maybe that was a primary and maybe that was the premiere and then it was released anyway in some meaning of the words that came out this week. So we'll go with that.


So we'll start off. Um, well, I was going to say, well, some of the historical context, I don't really have any this week. And the UK charts are pretty much exactly the same. Amazingly, back home is still in the charts, so we can make that judgment.


What's this? Is this the seventh week in a row where we've talked about the England World Cup squad song back?


Finally, this is the seventh. This is what happens after. This is seven weeks in a row. Has never been back home the entire time we've been. Exactly.


And they have been sent back home. So I must, must, must, must get the charts soon because otherwise I'm going to lose it.


And The Wonder of You by Elvis Presley is now in the US chose which Elvis was, I guess Elvis make his comeback with the spot now. I don't know.


I don't know. To be honest, it might be a rerelease. I mean, he's got so many songs. I don't know when any of them came out in relation to other ones because he had a pretty long career. And so it might be a rerelease or something. But anyway, I know I was in the charts, so. Yeah. And that's that's about it. You know, I quit for the magazines and. I probably could have looked in more detail at stuff, but just there's nothing jumped.


I mean, you know, they're still talking about Vietnam, they're still talking about this and that. You know, there was nothing. I'm sure stuff happened. You know, I'm sure if we really looked into stuff happened, but about the film, not the historical things, you know.


Jimmy, are you there? Oh, yeah, I'm OK. You dropped out for a second. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


OK, so, um. Where would you join a 20 year plot? Thing, I mean, it's not really a film you can do that with, is it? No, Catch 22 is about some soldiers on an island in the Mediterranean in World War Two. Yeah, our hero or antihero, if you're going to be all douchy about who is Captain Yossarian. Yeah, he doesn't want to fly anymore, but the relevant colonel keeps raising the number of missions that you need to do before you can sort of go on rotation out of it for a bit.


Mm hmm. So he wants to be declared crazy. But, you know, the doctor is like, nah, I can't call you crazy if you're wanting to stay on the ground because that shows you're saying the only way you'd be crazy is for keeping wanting to keep flying. And I guess that's a catch 22.


And then you say, well, then Yossarian says to him, like, so the guys are up there flying, are crazy. And it's like, yeah, they are. And then he says, So. So if they came to you and, you know, they're crazy. So if they came to you and actually supplying us all they need to do and you say yes, but also no, because then they would not be crazy because if they were.


Yes, that's like that is the catch 22. And I mean, catch is used for the film to describe.


I would say basically every almost every literally every film is basically divided into like Shwartz, as it were, all way around the same same group of characters. Usually Yossarian was a fair few without. And I think most maybe not all, but most of the scenes at the very least, revolve around some sort of catch 22. Yeah.


Or I think I think well, people tend to describe it is is a circular circular conversation. Yeah. That's the center of every scene. And some of them have more importance than others. But that's kind of the key thing that brings it together is these so-called conversations of like logic, logic and topology, contorted logic about these like mundane things or about serious things. It doesn't matter. That's kind of how it goes. Yeah. Yeah.


It's very anso like the general sense of the film trying to promote this idea of sort of the war and the environment, not making any sense as characters or. Yeah. To hold on to their sanity. Yeah, it's a very, very satirical novel. I'm not sure maybe says comic novel, but it's definitely every scene is like ridiculous and about sort of like showing, it's about being satirical doesn't work.


Yeah. So I guess we should so we should probably say that first. It's based on a big yes. Which you've. No, I'm going to be honest.


I was kind of assuming most people would come into this knowing that. No, no, no.


I wasn't I wasn't saying that for this or benefit people who didn't know what I was saying that it's going to be relevant to our discussions because I've read the book and you have not.


Yeah, I don't say this is the first film we've done. Either of us has any prior experience.


So I and there was also a TV show made last year and there was last year. Yeah. Or two years ago.


Last year I think it was for Hulu and I believe it was on Channel four here in the UK. And it I mean so I'll, I'll go into more detail about what I think it's like the best thing. But the TV show is fantastic and I would highly, highly recommend The Tonight Show.


I, I, I haven't read the book. So this is my first exposure to catch. You will say it's very, very obvious immediately that that is what's coming from it's got very the way the dialogue is written in a very, very way and where it's very sort of clever and happy with its own cleverness.


Yeah, well. And the thing about that is that works very well in the book, but yeah, it watching this film, it feels very unnatural. The way that you see things, you can kind of tell that. And I saw I read I read something that said that the actors didn't really take on the parts necessary. They just kind of read read out the lines as himself, you know.


Yeah. One of the things about a lot of books, particularly of that time, obviously, and it's that sort of every character in them is very, very intelligent in a way, even different worldviews and stuff. Yeah. The book is very cool because like, you know, the prose itself will be written in that style with characters like, you know, it's the officer's view that you're sort of submerging yourself in. Yeah. But obviously in the film it starts to get a bit weird, particularly when a lot and a lot of these scenes of admittedly some notable exceptions are actually a lot happening at the moment.


But visually, it's just people standing around and having a very clever conversation. Yeah. So I will say that, like, personally, my takeaway from this film was like, wow, you know, I really wish I had read the book for this because it looks like it'd be good.


Yeah. So it's interesting you say that because I actually.


So the film is told out of order, but vaguely in order at the same time, and the book is told entirely out of order and so reshuffle a lot of stuff.


They didn't reshuffle a lot of stuff, but the book has a lot more detail in it. And there there are there was there was a fair bit of reshuffling. And the way the book kind of works is the characters will refer to stuff that has happened, but you won't have heard about it yet. So, for instance, there's a scene, there's a scene where Milou Bombs Airfield in the film. Yeah. And in the film that happens towards the end.


And in the book. In the book. In the book. That also happens sort of towards the end. But you've heard about the bombing of the airfield or when miles from the airfield they talk. They talked about that like 20 times before it happens. And there's a lot of examples of that in the book. So actually, I, I would I watch a TV show first, which is and interestingly is told entirely chronologically and literally. I don't think there's any flat there might be a couple of flashbacks flash forwards, but it's basically entirely chronologically.


And now the things that you do lose some of the the nice bits of references and like the slow building the plot. But it actually works actually works really well.


If you watch the TV show and and understand all the events that happened in the TV show and then read the book, you kind of know what they're referring to. And in a way, you lose the magic of, like, stopping sort of revealed.


But in another way, it makes it a lot more approachable because I know a lot of people start the book and, like, give up on it because it's just like. I don't know, you know it, you're reading it and you're like trying to remember if it was something, you know, or you're trying to work out what's going on or what they're referring to. And I've heard people say that that's not very approachable, whereas watching the TV show first and just having an idea of what events happen, what characters like, then I feel like I appreciate the book a lot more.


Yeah, I feel we have a TV show, though, that's kind of well suited to having a bunch of shorts out or whatever, because you could just have the episodes. Yeah, it's short. I'm not what to do. It might reduce the cultural the classic classiness of this conversation. But there's an animated series called The Melancholic Horror of He's Zumaya. Right. And like all the episodes in that initially when they were broadcast, we're showing our chronological order.


And so, like you like, pieced together like a proper timeline and stuff, um, the episodes. But they were broadcast like, for example, is like a two parter. That's a mystery on an island. Except that when there's certain like part one, that a completely unrelated episode, then part two. OK, example. Yeah. And then the last, like the last episode of the first season is like one of the earliest things that happens in it.


But then on rerelease release of those episodes, they reject them all to be in chronological order, unlike any like official release of them, now has them in chronological order. So you got to like look up the original order online if you want to watch it that way. That's a real shame. It loses something when you've taken away the magic of that. I think in the case of this film as well, uh, not this film, the story, I think having episodes out of chronological order is important for creating the mood, as it were supposed to be.


A bit confused. You know you are.


Yeah, it's an interesting one. I mean, I feel like if the TV show didn't work or wasn't good and I would definitely be one of the things that you'd be able to say about it. But I don't know. I just really enjoyed the TV show.


And did you watch The Whicher TV show? Because there was this because that's also shown out of chronological order, except those like plotlines that are shown simultaneously that take place in different eras. Yeah, they were talking about how the that was really badly received by audiences. So from now on, for the next seasons and stuff, they're going to make it chronological, make it easier to understand.


Yeah, no, I you know, I feel like telling myself I have chronology does work, but I feel like it works better in the book. So, you know, in the beginning you can refer back to things, but in a TV show, I just feel like it can be a bit weird if they were referring to stuff, because I mean, the whole thing about TV and film and books, assault in accent is you're supposed to show, not tell.


Right. That's like the classic thing. Yeah, but you can't really if you don't want to if you don't in the book, you can write and say so-and-so happened and then not continue to talk about it, but in a in a film or TV show, if you're trying to show something without. Mm. You know, you don't want them just seeing stuff because audiences are expecting to have something to see. I mean as you say, a lot of The Simpsons conversations and stuff.


So people really want to see stuff. And if you tell overorder, I don't know.


I think it's just speaking personally, I really like modern quality of storytelling. It's like, yeah, all the stuff, I suppose. On the other hand, if you're showing it in film is like something that's a lot slower pace. Well, yeah. So you have time to figure that out. Yeah.


I don't think it really works in the film because it's the I mean the book, it's a long book. I can't remember how many pages is a chunky book, so it can kind of get away with that. But the film. Yeah. To try and do a film chronological order, you really need to think about every specific thing you you're showing. Yeah.


Because the bits of the book is the book has loads of subplots and they're just not in this film, you know, and it's like there's, there's a subplot where they they've made up a name to sign letters with of like someone that doesn't exist or someone or something like that camera exactly what it is. And it's like a couple of them using this this name, then the signature to sign off and all sorts of stuff. And that's like a whole subplot that then while some minor supply fits into other stuff and yeah, there's there's another subplot where are not a plot, actually a plot point where you serian and decides that he's going to try and play as many missions as possible to get to the limit because like the limit is 80.


And yeah, the idea is that before anyone reaches 80, he's going to raise the limit again. But if you Saryan just gets on every single plane it leaves, he'll up to the mission and then get out of the get get to go home. So that's another whole thing that was missed out from this film. And I feel like there's so the book has so many plots and subplots and characters and stuff that kind of really add to creating the whole world.


Yeah. Then I don't know.


The film kind of felt like it missed out on those because it kind of picking picked and chose, you know. So if you're making a film from a book, you can pick and choose what you're putting in it. But when that book has so many references between events in between characters and going back and forth, it must be hard to pick and choose. And I feel like maybe that's that's a reason why the TV shows is better, in my opinion, because it's got that time.


It's got that time to fit in all the subplots and fit and all the characters.


And so just. Training or an opinion there, or you would say for the TV show? Yeah, by Miles, I mean, look, there's a variety of reasons. Why, um, and, uh. So, I mean, another reason is that the TV shows a lot more stylized. And it's filmed in a lot more. It's a lot brighter because this film is almost dystopian, you know, everything's like, you know, very grey or brown beige.


And the TV show is really light and bright.


And I feel like that fits in more with the satire and the sort of I mean, getting back to what we were saying two weeks ago about Westerns, the thing about desserts is that they're not very visually interesting.


Yeah, well, they can be, though. I mean, yeah.


I mean, Lawrence of Arabia and stuff. Yes, they were all desert films and they're all great. But it is also very, very easy when you're dealing with a flat what is by definition a flat, featureless landscape to it be a bit boring.


Yeah. Um, so I guess the thing is, this is another thing I read. I'm pretty sure I read all this shit I'm seeing on Wikipedia, not my opinions, but these these little facts. And was that a lot of people felt this was.


Oh no. I think it was the Roger Ebert review of this film.


Yeah. And I love the way the film is kind of like a War is hell film, you know, and like the classic every, you know, everything dark green stuff when actually that's not what the book's about.


The book's about like the general struggle to survive and just told within the context of the the war. But, um. Okay, yeah. That makes sense. I don't know, it just it feels like it was going to the whole dystopian thing and it didn't fit in with the the humor and stuff. OK, I don't know. I think I everything. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think it's still pretty clear it feels like war is bad, is very clearly an attack, is it?


Yeah, yeah. But, um, no, it's not so much war is bad in terms of like. Having to live in the desert and stuff, it's the fact that you might get killed at any moment. Yeah, and that's that's the key thing to do. And the TV show and stuff that doesn't necessarily translate as well to this one, I don't think, because it doesn't have the humor.


The humor just feels so at odds with the way it's show, and that's the same thing we're seeing with the way the people are acting, the way they say the lines and so is the lines are obviously sort of humorous. These like intelligent, low points, humorous lines, and then the actors are so realistic and stiff.


And then, yeah, I'm going to disagree with you there. I like the way I think it works while having them mostly play it straight, as it were. I think it's a good contrast in terms of like the dialogue. OK, well, I would say, like, I can't remember his name. The guy who plays in this area is probably my least favorite. I think that's just because.


Yeah, he sucks the guy in the TV show so good. I'm just I'm just going to keep like this TV show to everyone because it's great.


Well, I think everyone else does a pretty good job. The guy who plays Mila is pretty good up until the end. He's pretty used to getting out the end. He lets the masks leave in a mask. But he sort of I think what works about Michael is a villain is not like he's very cheerful and he really does well doing as being wrong. Exactly. And in the film, his performance sort of lets us sort of I absolutely agree or at least something else slip in.


That was I wish if he just kept it the sort of cheerfulness, I would have a lot better, which is another thing that the TV show does.


Yeah, just but other than that, I thought the guy who played the guy dies, the 20 year old DOBs.


No, no. Natally Natally Martin Sheen's, unless he does a pretty good job. So I'm guessing his character was more major in the book.


Yeah, I think so. And Orson Welles, he does a good job. Yeah. Well, yeah, yeah, it is pretty good.


I think the thing is in the book and I feel like a lot of the characters are more major.


Um, yeah.


Like they, they've definitely so for instance, major, major, major, major, major, major is a bigger character, whereas in this he's going to say one scene, slightly weird things that most people just because like they only had like a limited selection, I assume most of the short-stay chose sort of fit together into like the overall plots that were with the glaring exception of the major, major stuff which so weirdly isolated.


Yeah. In the book and a TV show. And Major, there's a whole background. So, Major. Meijers, dad, so so the major is born and his surname is Major, obviously, and then his dad for be fight to change the birth certificate so that his first name and middle name are also major, and which is why he has made a major so called major, major, major, major. And and then the thing about him, the whole the whole catch of him only being that people can only go see him when he's not in.


That's his whole thing that's trying to catch another catch 22.


So in the book and a TV show that that happened several times. And we're like Yossarian tries to see him and the colonel tries to see him and and all this kind of stuff. And also Yossarian knows major, major and personally. So he, you know, begs him, you know, like you can you can get me out of here. You just have to sign this one thing. And I can't write it, doesn't sign it. But there's a whole thing with that.


So so characters like that that he chose to include, but only for these very brief scenes. All of every character that you see in it basically is a major character in the book. Yeah. Yeah. And so. We can while we're talking about characters, we can talk about the cast if you want. Yeah, so you're the guy who played Yossarian and I didn't really know. I didn't think it did. I get a job, to be honest.


He was in it was serviceable. He was serviceable. But I mean, I feel like I'm always going to compare that compared to the TV show, which is cast like so well.


And so he was going off as a sort of neutral, impartial observer. I would say he was fine.


Yeah, he was. He was OK. And so he was in going going in style with Morgan Freeman and friend of the podcast, Michael Caine. Nice. And then they played Cathcart was Martin Balsam or Bozsum, who was in 12 Angry Men and along with other friend in the podcast, Henry Fonda, of course.


And he was also in Tora Tortora, which I think will watch Oh, I feel like came out earlier in the year because I think I think there is a I think there was like another release date that we can take advantage to.


Like when you look at like 1970, the two big film releases of this year are the MASH film and Tora Tortora. And he's definitely mismatch. Mismatch.


Yeah. And I thought I think I think I think two or tortora maybe at its initial release we've missed, but I'm pretty sure there was some loophole that I think because I really can't figure out some way to lose interest in there.


And the guy who played Netley, who that was. Oh, no, I didn't know it was an Art Garfunkel, Simon and Garfunkel. Oh, yeah, of course. And she he cites this film as a reason that their band broke up. Huh, because they they both not like they they both had roles in it, both Simon and Garfunkel and but then they cut Simon's role and he was not very happy.


No, he got cut. And also Garfunkel was massively delayed in recording their album because he was filming this and they were meant to recording bridge over Troubled Water in New York. And he broke up later this year. So apparently this was a big thing for that. Or say, not worth it.


Not worth it. No, definitely not. And as you said, yeah, he did. Or I didn't really recognize him, to be honest about Orson Welles.


Is that like how you just associated with being like the big baritone, booming voice guy? Yeah, well, it gets reduced to in the popular memory like this is where he decides to have range in a way that I sometimes forget.


He does that he doesn't like acting. Right. I think he sees himself as more of a director. You got to pay the bills. I think. Yeah, I successfully sold out towards the end of his life. Yeah. I seem to remember there is a thing where he was kind of felt that he had to act to pay the bills, but he really was not a big fan of it. And some of his films are not great because he didn't win.


But yeah, he does. He does. Right. I didn't recognize.


Do you see what's the name of Orson Welles film that Netflix released? Like the last one a couple of years ago was like when something, you know, I haven't seen either.


I hear it's incredibly cool. There's a film and Mark Cousins did a film about Orson Welles called The Eyes of Orson Welles, which I'd quite like to watch at some point. Right? Yeah.


And I haven't seen any of it other than Citizen Kane. I haven't seen any of the other ones.


I've seen a couple, I think. Yeah.


Come on. We're here for four. They are really, really good one. Uh, nice. So and you know, he played Milou. Milo, uh, no, because he was wearing a hat and therefore you can see his face. I was just join Jon Voight, as I say his name. Yeah, yeah. From Ed from Deliverance and I mean other films as well. And then the Chaplin. Oh, yeah, wait, can I get to my one bit of trivia?


I don't know if you knew mean in the copy of the book you read, was he named Shippen or Tapan Topman?


Oh, I don't remember. Because apparently in American Coffee is a catch 22, they now call him Choplin Tatman, as in the film, which they apparently traded for and in U.K. once he's still at Mr. Shipmen, which was the original name. I think it was. Yeah.


And I was wondering throughout the film, I saw that beforehand. I was like, I wonder why they renamed him from Shipment to Tatman. As far as I can tell, the entire reason is because it rhymes with copyright.


It was quite funny.


Yeah, I'm not going to know if you're going to do it. I appreciate this is the weird time to make a major change.


It was a bit weird. Yeah, I think it was called shipmen corporate and I'm not sure. So that was Anthony Perkins from Psycho.


Oh, yeah.


And also also from cycle to cycle free cycle four. And it's a cycle five. I don't know. I didn't even know there was a security. Yeah, there's like four of them to. Why? I have no idea. I have no idea. Obviously, Hitchcock only did the one, but yeah, I think they just sold Saldate. OK, yeah, OK. The major, major, major, major. He did seem familiar. I don't know or may you may recognize him from a little known film called Elf.


Yeah, well, Farrall, of course, of course, no, it was Bob Newhart who plays Will Ferrell's grandpa. I know you know the one that he sits on his knee.


Duncan, I'm going to tell you again, I think I've already mentioned this on my phone, you know. Yeah, no good. Oh, I think you did mention this. I think it's a pretty Christmas special in, like, four years. All right. Well, he's in there right now.


Bob Newhart and, uh, Martin Sheen, who we've talked about. So, yeah. Was Doughboy. So he kind of lost his son, doesn't he, Martin Sheen?


Yeah. It's just that point not to be to like, homoerotic about it, but like it is distracting, not striking, but is notable just how much better looking Martin Sheen is than Charlie.


Yeah. Do you think that as a result of Charlie's, you know, probably it's probably going to be. Yeah, uh, yeah. Also a much better actor, although that's probably much more inevitable. Yeah. I think that's more. Yeah. Uh, yeah. I like. Cool.


So um. You got any other points you want to make about the terms of the cost? Not really anything. I mean, I've to just I'm just handing over. Oh, yeah.


I'm just trying to think. See, the thing is, it's very broad felonies, but not yet into specifics. What did you think about life? Because I thought he was a pretty good character overall.


So, I mean, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I prefer it in the TV show and in the book. But, um, so, yeah, I feel like he was another person that somewhat suffered from the film, cutting down a bit because you kind of you kind of see him in the film, you just kind of pops up and. Yeah.


Is doing something, trying to show you how to describe the experience of the film and then you can like the that work. So like in the film, Milo, I think even maybe like the second scene of the entire film says that he's got an idea for, like, selling stuff. Yeah. And profit and like he said, like selling supply. So he initially says blankets. And then we find out in the next scene he's also been selling parachutes.


Yeah. And the idea is he's going to turn a profit and this will be great for everyone involved. Any time you take some of the stuff he loves them, leaves them a share in the company. And I saw throughout the film as sort of a running subplot. So like every now and then my back up and he's in the middle of some sort of lucrative deal, but always like getting ridiculously far away from anything like an army would actually use like as one word, like his own, the coastline, the sort of trading statues for some oil paintings or something.


But then eventually, Milo makes like a very bad investment in cotton. I think it is. I think it's so he fills up a warehouse with it and he points out like the man can't eat this. So it's useless to them. But, um, the Germans say that they'll take the whole thing off their hand if they bomb their own airfield, which they do. But it's good for everyone, which that's like the ultimate.


Yeah. Makes absurdity. Yeah. So like this is sort of towards the end of the film, like the entire town is under Milosz, complete control. They're all members of the company as they don't pass out the syndicate, the syndicate necessary. And they start, you know, enforcing curfews, beating people down the street and mile, saying like, you know. And when Yossarian confronts Milo about the death of Natally, who died in the bombing raid, my last full line, if you just understood basic economics about supply and demand, the natally wouldn't have had to die.


And would he died a very rich man.


Which is, of course, a bit of absurdity about no profiteering capitalism, it's petty cruelties or it's unfeeling machinery and of course, the good old military industrial complex.


Yeah, no, I thought it was I guess maybe just because it's hard for me in my own little bubble to necessarily sympathize with the experiences of people who are in quite the same way, but the same immediacy as I do with my other stuff, which is a lot more relevant to life as I live it. So that stuff hit me a lot more or less resonated. And so I liked them, but yeah, yeah, yeah.


I would say he's my favorite character. And so yeah, I think, I think the film. Did do him justice to an extent, but it's a lot more detailed in the book as far as everything is in the book and TV show, is it longer? And and you kind of the way I feel about it in the film, is it these things and all the other mediums, shall we say? You see a lot of the media actually you see like the slow build up of the the the syndicate, which I feel like kind of you miss out on.


So the point of doing is it goes on in the background and then, like you said, comes towards it. Yeah. Which which is in the time which which also happens in the book.


But the book has like a section that isn't focused because the books are out of order and Milo is constantly in the background doing stuff. But then there is also a large section of the book that is explains what happened with Milo. And then of course, the TV shows still more chronologically and you see them build up throughout the show. And but yeah, so so the background of Milo is he's the mass officer, so he's in charge of the food and that's how he gets the initial permission to trade and stuff like that to prepare meals.


And which is sort of said in the film, but not entirely. Yeah. Um, and like he offers Yossarian a part of the. Syndicate as well, like not just a share, but like to be a joint owner in it and, you know, I think so. Well, and there's another funny bit where he gets that he gets German planes to work for him as well. So, like all the Germans land in the airfield and get, like, held at gunpoint and then Milo drives off and it's like, oh, no, no, these guys are with me.


And then, like, starts unloading all the stuff. And it's just little things like that, they like slowly grows and he takes he takes Yossarian to meet some like sultans in the Middle East to trade oil and stuff like that. And, yeah, I just feel he has not shown as well in the film until until Sunday. Suddenly he owns all of Rome. You know, it kind of feels like it's a background thing. And it's something it's like the main thing.


Whereas in the book there's more of the slow build towards the. But yeah, I think obviously you can't have that quite the same level of slow build up. No. Inexactly as a film, but I think this probably was the smarter route.


Yeah, no, I mean, Milo Miles is definitely one of my favorite characters and I along with Major Major. But he got kind of fucked over in this film.


Major. Major is a genuinely very funny. All right. Yeah.


He's he's I mean, he's great in the TV show. Play the casting, the casting is a lot better in TV show, in my opinion, as you said, you as I said earlier, discussions that I liked dramatically.


I really like the old Italian man and asked what you for about like a.


Well, I think I'm very maybe just in light of recent events, I've been thinking a lot recently about how all great empires must die and when will inevitably fall. As some of the old man talks about that, he sort of discusses like the American arrogance, as it were, how great empires eventually meet their end, you know, in Persia, ancient Greece. To think anything else is arrogance. And, yeah, I don't know. I'd say it's just something I've been thinking about recently.


It's always nice to see it reflected in entertainment. Dark Souls is also about that in my relentless pursuit to drag everything we do down to the month.




And yeah, yeah, it resonates with me. I think it's important. I wonder if that would have maybe resonated in a different way in 1970. Yeah, that would be Vietnam. That would be past the peak of American exceptionalism, obviously, but it would be just before his downfall. And certainly nineteen fifty three, which is when I originally read the novel, would have been the exact apex of it. Yeah. So the just think about what did you think about it Duncan.


Well, I mean, I think it just shows how. People take advantage of situations. I guess I don't know, the whole character is a clever one, you know, it shows how you can get I don't know. I mean, I like that character a lot.


Yeah, I feel like you've covered. Got it. Yeah, I should say the Italian Taliban's main thrust of the speech is that you're saying that Italy's managed to survive for so long because it's too weak for anyone to really bother. Yeah, exactly.


Saroya and they just go along with whatever happens. Yeah. Which is I mean, it's a way to survive. To be honest. Yeah.


Might be true. On the other hand, he did mention Rome in his speech. So you know. Uh, yeah, regardless, it doesn't work out too well for them in the end anyway, so his horse get taken away. Mm hmm. Yeah. Speaking of Duncan, did you know that this is a book of major work of literature written in the 20th century? Do you know what that means? You know what that means inevitably happen. Well, someone gets killed and it's about the male male characters Development Day, and especially in this film and this film.


Yeah, it's sexist or certainly ignores the woman mostly. Yeah. I mean, it's much bigger, bigger place in the in the say the line book and TV show.




Yeah. I'll take your word for that.


But uh no definitely you are right. I mean on the one hand it is sort of an inevitable thing focusing on the Second World War and planes with old men. And it is going to be like that. But, um, yeah, in the in the the the new King TV show. Oh, my God. Um, they have a bigger part, like the nurses play a big part and explains how she feels more than just like the one monologue and the various like female characters and prostitutes and stuff.


Whilst they are prostitutes they actually have stuff to say and which I should say only happens once or twice in the film, and not particularly, I should say that I'm 90.


I'm not I'm I'm completely sure that it is intentional in the film, how little attention is paid to Yossarian love and trust to her to be engaged with. But she's never named for one. I think also in the scene where she dies, uh, Captain, you said, well, the captain is Aryan's friends, raped her and then pushed through a window. I don't know their catch. Twenty two is transparently obvious that Yossarian is vastly more concerned about the friend in question.


And ultimately I compared to the actual victim, as it were. And I think it was really meant to show how far both have gone rather than anything else. Obviously is not is another great example of a very common thing where you do see the scenes in a woman's death. And these things are never actually about the woman in question.


Yeah, the the scene when they were in bed was quite nice. And they're like having this so that cucumber's have another catch.


Twenty two, uh, about being a marriage and being married. Yeah. Being a virgin and being crazy and stuff. That was a nice little scene and. Yeah.


Yeah I feel like the representation of women when, when it was done and I think there were a couple of times when it was done not badly, but for the most part it was either ignored or not done very well. Um, yeah.


And I mean the, the general, the generals wives probably the the worst one.


Yeah. Well I mean I feel the point of that in the men in a horrible side.


I'd be willing to give him a pass on that I think.


Yeah. No it is definitely. But also she's like pretty clearly got like fake boobs and like. Yeah. Stuff like that. Like Jessica Rabbit style. Yeah. Figure I don't know.


And so in, in other versions of the story and Yossarian has sex with her when he's still in training. So the general that comes to visit is the same one that was training them when they were still getting trained. And he has an affair with that with the wife. And so she has more she has more of a character than just someone of the Auklet. Whereas in this, obviously, she's not introduced till halfway through and they're all like, oh, look at this.


But yeah, so so I see as a character in the the wider media, she is. Yeah. Know, I mean, I'm making these synonyms, you've got four and TV show now. It makes it no. Well, media, yeah. Other versions of other media. Other versions.


It's good. Yeah.


Well, I don't want to say book and TV show again because it's, it's pretty, uh, pretty annoying.


Um, so I think we should move on to discussing the ending fairly soon. But are there any other shorts that you feel their particular attention from.


Other shorts that I feel and the one when he pretends to be the dying boy was quite funny.


Oh yeah. Also they weren't all that funny was kind of weird.


So like there are maybe the people that come to visit are obviously supposed to be very old, but they're not, which is the first weird bit. And and I feel like that kind of loses.


I don't know. I feel like the film is incredibly satirical, but everything is sort of based in reality in some way where like, yeah, it's normal stuff that's blown out of proportion. And but the bit when when they came to visit him and they're like they think it's their son and they just totally believe it just fell almost to it like felt out of reality. Like if it if it was it felt like a little comedy sketch from from some other show.


And if they if they've been really old or something, then you'd be like, OK, so there's supposed to be really old, but it was just like a pair of middle aged people that I don't know, like the fact that my.


It's a bit more uncertain late, obviously, everyone talks, we're not we're in a very particular way in the usually putting forward a perspective that you would very much imagine person would have. It's just that their phrasing it in a certain way, whereas the the comedy in that scene just feels a bit strange because nobody directly acknowledges what's happening, which I guess is probably the point of this point, I think. But it just it is it's of a different breed to a lot of the rest.


So you I would say. Yeah, and. And also, he got here, he gets shot in the leg. Yes, sort like thing. Yeah, something like putting in other copies of this storyline, he gets he gets shot in the balls.


I was wondering why they would cut that out, because that makes more sense, because the point is that here he would be excused from combat duty if he'd been shot in the leg. But because he gets shot in the balls, he's not. And that's like another catch 22 thing. And they were in this shot in the legs. It must be a rating thing. Yeah, definitely. But it seems where there are better than bad in the sense that I could probably mention both.


But yes, I guess so. Yeah, it's kind of weird and but. Yeah, well I have I got here, I think. Yeah. We can move on to the ending. So by by the team Snowden or do you mean or. I was going to discuss so basically in the final scene of the film, the air fields being bombed by Maiello, as we've discussed yet, and the staff colonel, what's his name, caudate, Colonel Cathcart Karkare.


And the other one's Goldkorn, that's sort of the way or not.


Yes, I know the two of them. They're kind of fed up with your Saren at this point. I want them to go home causing more trouble than it's worth. And they basically offer him a deal. And it's like you can start flying missions again or we'll let you go home. You got to do one thing for us in return. And what they ask him to do is like us, that's their request. And I really like that as a moment because it was just so perfectly insidious, but also incredibly pathetic at the same time.


Yeah, it's great. I really felt that it was just very much sort of hammering home sort of thesis statement about the leadership, as it were. And but it's just this sort of strange mixture of incompetence, the sort of ruthless power. Yeah. So I like to have a moment alone. That's very good for not being a literary critic.


And but that's what this film demands is a slightly higher form of criticism that I cannot give. But we end up deciding initially takes the deal. But then he's someone Natalee's ex-girlfriend tries to due to what I was being very respectful.


But nevertheless, her character's name or it's not I'm not just saying that that's, you know, her character's name.


Right. She tries to stop him, but no, she does stop him. She tries to kill him and fails. So he ends up in the hospital for three weeks. And then it turns out that pretty much everyone who read all of his friends are dead or so everything's all left. Our Chaplain Tatman and the other major guy's name, I don't think has spoken to Danby in the book yet. Spoken, but yeah. Oh, maybe I just pay attention, but yeah.


But, you know, these are two characters who aren't his friends. He's just on decent enough times with them. Yeah. So it's sort of lamenting lines like, you know, I can't take this deal, actually, I've decided that, you know, that why is there to live for? And they say that actually one of his friends who kept crashing planes into the ocean has successfully escaped to Sweden on a life raft. Yet he was crashing all those planes into practice and see.


He's gotten out. Yeah. So inspired by this, Yossarian jumps out the window and makes a mad break for freedom to the sound of Stars and Stripes forever and gets a little dinghy. And I would say one of the better visuals of this film is him in the dinghy and just seeing how like like he made such like small progress continually in the wrong direction. I mean, he was around at one point. It's very nice. It's great. That good shit.


Yeah, that's helpful. And yeah. So what do you think of that. I thought it was good.


I mean it's a good ending or. In the book. It's a lot a lot more developed because he's he shares a tent with Yossarian and basically he tries to make the tent as comfortable as possible. Mm hmm. So he builds it, builds a stove and stuff. Yeah, that's done. And this is in the film for like one scene. Yeah. Yeah. But and basically he tries to make it as possible and it really annoys Yossarian. But then he realizes that is because Aura knows that he's going to run away and he wants the tent to be like as nice as possible for Free Syrian.


And then another another bit. And that's not in this film, um, is where Yossarian gets a sign when he goes missing. Yossarian gets assigned a new tent, mate. And but the guy the guy that comes and gets assigned to mission before he gets, like, signed into the squadron and he dies on that mission, and because he's not been signed in, he's not like that. He's not officially dead, which means you say your Syrian gets attent himself because his his teammates are dead men.


Hmm. If that makes sense. So he's like in the tent on his own with all of our stuff. So that's like his character arc. Whereas in this one you just see him like die basically or seemingly die.


Yeah. You got some friends. Yeah. I should also say that much like the titular Kashani to the film itself is also circular in that much like last week's film Valley of the Dolls, we got a scene from the ending of contacts to begin the film and then the film starts. That's right. And then again, by that time at least, I don't know if it's safe for you, but at least for me both times that that those films that I have completely forgotten about the first time you get back.


Yeah, I mean, actually, I had forgotten that last week that that until you said that. And then it took me a few minutes to think about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.


You know, works very well thematically here obviously. Yeah.


It's good. I mean it immediately establishes the sort of out of order figure of it. I mean as always the thing with these mysterious things is that because like when you're watching them, like these are two characters you don't know and have no context for, like it's obviously not going to stick in your mind that much because you can't really engage that properly.


I don't know if it was different for you, but I didn't recognize the figure as Captain Yossarian, even after we met him, quote unquote, properly. So, yeah, yeah, I was never like, oh, man, I wonder how Captain Yossarian got stopped, which I think it's like kind of maybe what you're supposed to be.


Yeah, maybe. And so and yeah.


And it's a good ending. It's a sign of renewed hope kind of thing, very morally justified on Aryan's part.


I don't think it's supposed to be a you question, but just in case it is, that's my take. Yeah. Uh. And so another kupets when he is nude for like a fair bit. Oh, yeah, he starts refusing to wear a uniform. Yeah, nobody really cares. They just kind of.


Well, I mean, it's another it's another example of the kind of leadership thing because they care initially. But then the big general says, you know, if this man is a hero, you can decide whether it wears his uniform and then they'll go, oh, yes, yes, yes, I agree. I agree. So you're right. And then he's basically free to not wear it.


But this is a good film, if you like, watching, as I got to say, you know. Yeah, just you got plenty of that on the Valley of the Dolls, I guess. But, you know, every second.


Yeah, definitely.


Yeah. I guess that's clearly the point where I like the films, the films that really that seem to be honest. But certainly this is the point where it is full on and saying just. Yeah.


Yeah. Hmm, good stuff, you know. So have you got any more points about the plot?


I not really, but the thing is that just because the film is basically a series of vignettes is the word. Yeah. That's why it's hard to talk about the fall as a whole. So I guess that that was a funny scene that. Well, that's true.


I mean, the main plot revolves around and the death of Snowden. Hmm. What do you think about that to get to that scene, don't you, sufficiently? No, not at all.


Not even my knowledge got so polite, but I'll say at the very end version of that scene where Snowden buys all his guns for and that is a bit gross. Yeah, I, I didn't have me as something. I'll be OK, but maybe I'm a sociopath. Or maybe. Well currently yes.


Do you know what it you know what is haunting in Jamie. Well, the TV show.


Oh of course. It's pretty haunting in that.


And yeah, it kind of works in this, but it's kind of weird the way it's shot.


Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah.


I think that's my last thing about the plot, so. All the hairstyles people have are very 70s. Would you agree that is true? Yeah, they don't feel great. They don't feel very well. Her teeth and style, which I guess is.


I guess that's a symptom of films of a certain time, they kind of are, even if they're set historically, generally in some way, reflect the time that they're made.


So, yeah, I think they feel like no other Cerqueira. So I think it does kind of help a bit because it does sort of make the film feel very timeless in a way which I know isn't. This isn't a film where it's supposed to feel timeless.


Well, to an extent, although I say it like other than the specific references to Esseily, there's not that much to you. And this is the World War two films specifically. It could be like Korean War and Vietnam War can be Vietnam with no war, but the other wars, you know, that really does help, although not as much as to the hero, which, you know, was basically a Vietnam War film.


This one is definitely a world war to film, but it doesn't go this way. I mean, you never see any Germans in it. Yeah, or any Italians that are as in soldiers, you know, they never do anything that would actually positively help the war effort either. No, they're pretty much always just waste time. Yeah, that's pretty much it.


A lot of times wasted when you're sparing lives, obviously. But they don't they don't kill people as they're supposed to know, although they also very much aren't on any kind of moral crusade either, which is a nice line to walk in terms of. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if you saw this film to do very well commercially. I didn't see the theory. The theory behind that is because the American public were obviously kind of sick of war at this point.


Yeah. And this this is such a war. The way it shot makes it a war film.


Well, because MASH did do very well that year, enough to inspire an incredibly successful sitcom. Um, obviously, I think that's because MASH is very much borne out of this apathy towards war. Yeah. And I feel like this film is trying to sort of comes from a very similar place in the way I think, you know, all this film, not not this film version as much.


I mean, this might just be because I read that review by Roger Ebert, whom he also said that you really need to read the book to appreciate this film fully.


And I feel like is something people are always going to say if they have read the book, you know.


Yeah, well, that's this is true. This is true. Yeah. I'm just I guess because this is the first time this has really been relevant. Can you think of any book to film adaptations and particularly like that? Back there. I mean, Jurassic Park, my favorite film.


That's true, but I would say Jurassic Park and to in a rare out of character, move for me, class it up for The Godfather, which is also based on both adaptations. But they're both basically different stories, as it were.


Yeah, I mean, Jurassic Park, pretty similar, but it's yeah, it's fairly different at the same time.


And I've already got fellas like no one else in the street. I think we've got it somewhere.


But yeah, my parents as well.


It's very it's aggressively a paperback I would say. Right.


Uh. Well, I just I can't think of any time I've seen a picture film adaptation of a book, I've already arrived. And I was like, yeah, this is good.


You know, um. Yeah, it's perhaps a fool's enterprise, but I'm sure I will finish this episode and then immediately think of one thing.


Well, you can you can record a little record, a little like disclaimer at the end or something.


Yeah, I'll send you the live action footage of me saying, like, sorry guys, and I'll do the elders thing. And across the screen, that's fine.


Or Trainspotting is a good one. I read Trainspotting about drinking.


I'd recommend you read Trainspotting. Let's skip it. Yeah, I should read more because as a whole I feel it's very great weakness of my character.


Definitely, as the film reminds me, a lot of Slaughterhouse five, which is a book I've actually read and I've not done one.


I guess we had to discuss very similar in terms of its tone and writing style and subject matter.


So do you think you would read Catch 22 after this?


Yeah, I was like I say, I watched the film and I came away from it thinking, yeah, I should buy the book. All right. Well, it may actually be the main mission. So, you know, maybe it did succeed.


Maybe I could lend you my copy, although it might be I'll be honest, don't do that because I will never, ever return it. I will forget immediately. It takes me okay. I mean, fair enough.


So, yeah, that's I think that's everything about the plot. I got some trivia about film so.


Okay, so lay it on me bro.


You might have seen this. This was on the Amazon. Like what do they call it X or is it the thing.


Yeah, I hate it. Yeah. So it's full of this because it gives us trivia. But any time really watching something I despise it. I mean she's over.


If I ever wanted to know who an actor was or what song was it. Yeah.


I don't like trivia goofs. Did you see that in this scene there with their right hand to OK.


No, there is an interesting instrument to do. OK, there's this guy, John Jordan, OK. Right. And he was filming a James Bond film. Can't remember which one I think it was, you know, twice maybe, I guess, you know, well, it comes up so often that this episode is done. I'm going to look up a timeline of James Bond films because it's really all we need for this.


OK, so he was filming James Bond film, and there was a scene where there is like a helicopter and a plane or something like that. And he was in another helicopter and one of the helicopter blades struck his flute and cut it off. So he got his prosthetic flute. And then he was also so, so well, actually, the interesting thing.


So he got his picture and or cut in half or whatever, but it happened to be a microsurgery conference in the town that they were filming in.


So he thought about this before, but not from the X-ray. I heard about I've heard about this years before.


Oh, well, I had to Google more detail the X-ray, the X-ray. But it's not even here yet, Jamie. It's come out because we're talking about James Bond film here. Yeah, the X-ray. It's about this film, but this is all relevant to it. So so there was a microsurgery conference in the town that they were filming. So he had like the best surgeons in the world and they reattach his feet and but then he got amputated because quote unquote, it didn't feel right.


So he had his prosthetic feet and then he was filming this film. And for whatever reason, he refused to wear a harness in the film that he was.


Oh, yeah, putting something in. And then a bit of wind caught the plane and he fell out of an open door. And because he had his prosthetic foot, you can get like proper fitting before he fell. So he fell like 4000 feet to his death.


So and yeah. Rest in peace.


John Jordan Metalhead, what a fun factoid, though, isn't it? I mean, it's pretty mental to get your feet off in one film and then fall out of a plane. And another one is pretty crazy, I suppose.


I suppose the altitude that led to one would perhaps also lead to the other.


Well, I was wondering if because I think I think the thing I read said that in the James Bond film, he wasn't able to move out the way in time because of his harness.


So I was wondering I want to ask you I do wonder he was refusing to a harness because the the harness in the previous film had almost caused his feet together.


Oh, I don't know. That's all conjecture. I don't know if that's true. But that's an end, so that's a piece of trivia. Number one and piece of trivia. Number two, are you a piece of trivia, something in the film that I didn't notice and I'm interested if you noticed. Was when major, major, major, major is in his office. There's a painting of President Roosevelt. And then that changes to Winston Churchill. And then changes to Stalin all in the same shot, did you notice that?


I did not notice, I didn't say that I'm going to have to look up to this because I'm a fun little detail for us. I don't know why.


I don't know what that adds to the. Story. Exactly. But because I did actually I did notice it was stolen at one point, but I didn't notice, like change and I didn't even really think I think I only noticed like reason, which is obviously like the last one to notice.


Didn't really matter for me.


But I need to look up that shot again because that's quite interesting. There were a couple there were a couple of nice long shots in this. And yeah, like you were talking about the one at the end when, like, zooms out and a Senate panel and and there's one before that. There's one just before that when they're like talking in the hospital like very slowly seems in over like a couple of minutes. Stuff like that. Nice little shots.


Yet another another bit where they're bombing the airfield. Mike, obviously very much goes into your campaign. War is a very nicely short war film. Oh, is it?


Absolutely is. Yeah, I, I, I feel like if I hadn't seen the TV show, maybe I wouldn't have even thought about it. But because that show in one way and I kind of worked so well, I think that's probably why I noticed immediately that this one is very bright and very great and.


Yeah, and I feel like it worked better.


And it also also meant that when when Rome becomes like sort of dystopian place, that was a lot more noticeable than it was when it kind of just went from one thing to the other. Yeah, so another bit of trivia, what would work while we're talking about filming and whatever there is, I didn't even write this one down. I just remembered I wrote it. So there was they were trying to work out how to film in the Bombers. Yeah.


And, uh, the director had, like, worked all night. And he was like, OK, we're going to have this cast member in this seat. This has member in the seat. And we'll fit the camera crew down in the nose here. And I'll send you this thing here. And then his assistant director was like, OK, that that that OK. And the guy when the director said, OK, what's wrong? And he went, well, who's going to fly the plane?


Because, like, they had to had the whole cockpit full of, like, actors and cameras and stuff. And obviously, you know, when it's a plane, you need someone to fly it.


So it was a funny thing, funny little like, you know, just keep it on the ground and then might do an old timey, like, sort of, I don't know what's real or, you know, in screening those days, I'm not being watched.


I say, yeah, I don't know. I assume I assume there was some reason for it. And anyway, that was quite funny. Quite funny little. So I think that's everything I've got.


I mean, I don't want to say on this film, I feel like if this I mean, for you, this was the first thing you've ever watched of this. Yeah. This piece. And would you say you liked it? I liked it fine, but like I say, my overwhelming impression of it was like, OK, this is not the best version. Yeah, yeah, it's immediately clear, right.


So, I mean, if even you got that, then that shows I think that. Yeah, yeah.


This is a little too novel ask to really work so. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. On the dialogue. Exactly.


A film from a novel is a tough, a tough thing to do because well I particularly like a very modernist normal, very engaged with the format almost. Exactly.


And I mean the other thing about a novel of course is that you can write what people are thinking and. Yeah. And write what people are interacting with other people and that kind of thing. And when, of course, when you do that. When you try and do that in a film, it doesn't always work because unless you have a weird voiceover, but that can be cheap often. Yeah, so it's a tough.


They do that in the David Lynch dune, so it's terrible. Yeah. You go back and say, yeah, right.


So shall we rate it. Yeah.


I'm pretty aggressively put this as a watch if it's on is the exact point where I put it and I read the novel instead. Yeah, yeah, but I would say I would put it if if for some reason you have no access to the novel or TV show, then watch if it's on. But otherwise, I would say don't watch. Don't watch and read the book, watch a TV show. They're both great.


And I would I mean, I would I would put both of them in like by the Criterion Collection ultimate decision.


But this film, I think probably is going be a story that you should experience in some form. So if you are in this magical hypothetical world where the film is the only thing you have access to, and I would raise it through and actively seek out and watch it. Yeah, OK. Yes, you know, yes, that's true. But there is no compromise in that world that existing because it is much cheaper as you can buy a bucket list is pretty old, you know.


Maybe I'll put it. No, I'm going to put it in Domagoj because I think even even wardship its own. I think if you're if someone says to you, do you wanna watch this film? I would say I would say, don't say yes, because you're going to spoil the experience, the experience you can get from from the peak of the TV show, I'd say. And obviously, if you hate reading, there's there's a great TV show and watch that I.


I'm sticking with whatever, OK, I'm going to watch, so that's so cool. Those are.


So now we know we made it to the last five to 30 minutes of the potty. Yeah.


Well, do you want to. I've already, in my immutable fashion, decided what we're watching next week is tell you now you to tell you.


Go for it. Go for it. Tomorrow or next week we will be watching the Conformist, which is Italian film, is supposedly one of the best films ever made. OK, and it was released in the Berlin International Film Festival on the 1st of July. So we can watch it next week. And also it's available free online, which is the best and most decisive factor in us watching a film that is quite good.


So that'll be my that'll be my turn to purchase that one. Yeah. But your there after. Yeah, cool. So, yeah, well, you know what I've been up to, so I will start with me, if you will. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry. Go for it.


OK, so do you remember several weeks back I told you in our private lives about the store I bundle for racial equality. And sure, I remember our conversations. I'm going to I'm going to brand you a racist very soon anyway. That Bill had 1500 games for five dollars, and I mentioned it to you in the context of being easily, more easily. But one of certainly the best, best deals, I would say probably goes through with some 500 games.


Yes, the is over now, Duncan, I hope this is a valuable bidding me to have good games in it.


I had a lot of very good games and there's all these dogs at the center of the case.


But, you know, now I own one thousand five hundred games, so I started playing one today. It's called Death and taxes. It's very built off plays like a grim reaper. And you decide who lives and who dies. It's built very much. It's very clearly inspired by papers. Please, if played right. Yeah. So it's quite interesting. It's very light.


Papers, please, is about the intersection between your morality and doing what needs to survive. I would say that death and taxes is more about the intersection between your morality and doing what you're told or deference to authority.


That sounds like a catch 22, perhaps a little bit. So it's quite interesting game because when you're going around, when you're sure is what GameWorks is like tends to be played multiple times, like on the first four. You don't really know how the systems work or what you're supposed to be doing. So you sort of automatically defer to doing what you're told to do because it's like the only thing you have to grasp on the stand. The thing that's what comes with negative consequence.


It's obvious. So I've been playing for that, doing a first run for this afternoon. I took about four hours and it ends very badly. But it was a very engaging time. But as you play through it, you get more knowledge and you figure out how to sort of how to get how to gauge what's going on behind the scenes and actually affect things in a way you want to. I've been doing a second, so I've been very briefly starting a second play for where I'm a bit more in control of what's going on.


But I still don't know nearly enough to make a proper difference. But I'm gathering information and it's becoming a very becoming a very engaging time. I'm enjoying myself greatly.


Yeah, well, I would get I should get that bundle.


That bundle has been away for about a week now, but I didn't tell you about it when I told you all about it related. I have no recollection of that.


I'm sure I can show you the download link for a couple of them because there are some games I already own in it. Oh, right.


Yeah, it's cool. And it's also even healthy.


So I am playing more spider man.


I talked about Utopia's any updates.


The last half, the last fifth of the game sucks in a weird way because they sort of. They decide to introduce like six more bases and like 20 or 30 more crimes, and those are the worst parts of the sandbox. They all the combat in this game is not family able to do a lot of it. Yeah, but on the flip side, the plot gets much more interesting all of a sudden. And I feel the game would be much stronger if it started there and sort of gave us time.


Insight to the end can catch me to sail than if it started with the prison break.


And then you had the sinister six and then like you maybe, like, put all six of them in the map at once, then like you could sort of do them in any order you wanted. That would be a very fun sandbox game. Whereas right now you do 80 percent in the game. About one villain is not super great.


And then like at the very end, there's more exciting.


You have opened, but you sort of like shuffle all the six off super quickly so you don't really get any time to know.


That's true. Well, fair enough. And so I got Disney plus. Oh, cool. When are you going to show me your passport?


I mean, that's you're not allowed to do that. Well, I you know, and I got this, plus I watched the Mandalorian, I watched Disney Gallery, the Mandalorian, which is about the making, the Mandalorian and and I'm currently watching the Jeff Goldblum world, according to Jeff Goldblum show, uh, which is good.


And the making of the Mandalorian thing is incredible. Um, so do you know do you know anything about it? I know Werner Herzog was involved in the major burn baby yota, which is very amusing to me. Um, other than that, not too right.


So basically so they had they had this thing. Right. So obviously traditional or not traditional, but, you know, now traditional filmmaking, you have a green screen or a blue screen. Yeah. And you you film on that. And then there's been so one of the main players or one of the main people involved in Mandalorian is Jon Favreau. Yeah. And he did The Lion King in the Jungle Book, the new ones. And they were really like forefronts in this technology of like using VR to film.


Yeah. Stuff like that. I didn't see the new Lion King.


I've not seen it, but I've seen in the jungle. So the main thing that you did was and they still had green screens and stuff. They had these giant screens and where they could project shadows and stuff on because one of the main issues, if a green screen is getting the lighting right for whatever the background is going to be. So what it did for The Jungle Book is like if they had elephants running past, you'd have these huge screens with like light and elephant shadows moving across them.


And that meant that all the reflections and shadows and stuff were correct. And the actor. And yeah. So that was like the first development. And then for the The Lion King, they developed the VR filming where they built the entire world in like a game engine and a real camera crew could do on VR headsets and use our actual cameras. And it meant the whole thing felt more fluid and stuff. And then after after that had been filmed and like the very basic game engine thing, they would then build up the world.


And so I've not seen that film yet, but I want to see it now. And for the Mandalorian, they went one further where they have had this thing called the volume. And in this room there is literally every single wall is like a screen, it's like a circle of screens and the ceiling is a screen as well. And there's no gaps between any of the screens, just one continuous screen, OK?


And they can project like a dome in an observatory. Exactly. Exactly.


And they can protect anything onto that screen and they can program the background. So they put on the screen to work with the camera. So as the camera moves, the background moves as it would in real life. And that means that like all the reflections on any of the actors are perfect because the screen is exactly what would be there. All the lighting is like done by the screens. You don't have to worry about any of that stuff. And the main character's wearing like a super reflective armor, which they would just never do before because of the.


Yeah. Issues of lighting and reflections and stuff.


And I was just like, holy shit, that's incredible. Because Stanley Kubrick did that did it kind of for 2001. Yeah. Where you have the tournament sequence. And that was that was big projections of photographs in the background of that. But this is like that that but next level with like the camera tracking and I didn't even notice when I was watching, it was just like indistinguishable from real life. And it's just it was amazing. And they also use all sorts of like classic Star Wars, things like they've got models and like puppets and stuff just to fit in after thing.


So that's that's what I've been watching.


This thing I saw about Werner Herzog and stuff was talking about like how with maybe that was a very big insistence that it should be a practical puppet.


Yeah, it's the imperfections. Yes. Yes.


That was that was in the thing. So I think what that was was the day before he said that he did have a puppet, but they were using it for like 70 percent of the things. And but Werner Herzog had a scene where he was like having to talk to the baby and stuff. And he was like and he was talking to this little, like, green screen thing. And he was like, we need to get the puppet in here.


I think that's where that came from.


Yeah, well, that's sort of the talking about because the puppet, the Frankel's Yoda is a lot more endearing and how he moves compared to the CGI one, even though like is objectively worse by being convincing movement.


Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, it's good and there is another bit where they were seeing the. They built a model of the ship and they just built the model of the ship to show the CGI guys and the big set builders what they wanted to look like. You know, then they ended up filming one or two little sequences in like the classic Star Wars way of like having the model mounted on the background and like moving and stuff.


And then they ended up using it by like two or three times as much as they were planning on just because it looked.


So Star Wars.


It's yeah, it was just it was very, very interesting behind the scenes thing and the technological advancements or amazing. And yet, perhaps in the background, there is a tale of logical advancements taking away. Well, I was just going about circle. Yeah, but I feel like the thing that you're that people ought to be skeptical about are people who are. It's like green screen and stuff where you have actors. You know, reacting like the life of Pi, he's reacting to like you see the behind the scenes thing and it's just like a pillow, a green pillow, and it's like, yeah, all right.


And the woman inside the hippogriff is like a tennis ball, almost. Exactly.


Exactly. But what we talking about is beyond that. No, no. I mean, so within within this volume thing, they have to build the set. So that's all real. And take away t t who directed one of the episodes so that he actually walked into the screens once because he thought it was real, like he was just he was just walking the set and he just like kept walking and just hit it like well.


It's amazing, it's amazing when history says, I've been watching and I've been playing euro truck simulator to mainly oh, you've never played that before?


I played. How many hours have I got on it? Let me look here.


Uh, how would you say it wasn't a plus as a service? So I feel the issue is that there's not a huge amount on it that I would go out of my way to watch.


No, I I'm going to have it for this month and just watch everything and then.


All right. Again, this is a free trial. No, no, no. It's it's a fully paid month. But like, I'll pay I'll pay six pounds for the month and then yeah, I don't intend to add it to my many subscriptions. I will shuffle and, you know, I'm like, I've got it. And I'm going to put through I want to see it.


Well, because like it has The Simpsons obviously, which is objectively very good shows that I love very much. And then I asked the Mandalorian like I'm not the biggest Star Wars fan. You know, I'd watch it if it was on a service I already had. Yeah. And then after that, this is not a lot on it that appeals to me. Like I like Disney movies. Fine. But I don't seek them. Yeah.


Yeah, I think, I think. I mean for me. You would get I would get it if I was if I was going to do like a Marvel marathon, I would get it and just watch than I was going to do.


Star Wars marathon, like six pounds is nothing to pay for all the Star Wars films.


But for like I can't I cannot I cannot see myself in 12 months and having paid it for those 12 months and had enough to watch.


It's just I feel the issue with Disney is that everything we make has to be so similar in a way just because they all take the tone of the brand. Yeah, I can't see it. See it really having the same variety that you can find on Netflix or Amazon Prime, which is what makes those services good to have on sort of rotation, because like no matter what would you do and you can find something to watch.


Yeah, it's quite it's quiet. It was quite interesting because Disney plus I don't know. And so I had to think it was like a Black Lives Matter event thing. Black Lives Matter films.


And I would say, like the first three were were. Yes. You know, like black black stories. I think it was like the title. And then the rest were just Disney films of black people in it.


And I was kind of like, I don't I didn't even I have some of the South, the Cowboys running away from their own legacy. I was like, I don't really think that's a point.


I don't know how you feel about that, but I don't like I don't think Disney is ever and I don't think they can ever, by virtue of their brand, make a good film about the princess and the frog, which I guess is the only love is one that they had.


Yeah. So it's not a good film from a racial standpoint, I think.


Exactly. Why has it just as a black person, it's like so if you go to Netflix at the moment, they've got that like Black Lives Matter section and I'm sure at least has like Spike Lee for something.


That's something. I'm sure.


I'm sure I'm sure this films and not have issues or whatever. But the you know, you look at it and you've got like Spike, a bunch of Spike Lee films, blah, blah, blah, whereas the Disney one, it was really like I think I think I of remember the first two were I kind of OK, they look like whatever. And then it was just like. A couple of black characters, and I was like, I don't think that's really I mean, I guess it's still black voices is black representation, but it just felt kind of like it felt kind of like they were just trying to, like, force it, you know, like the force in, I don't know, Princess and the Frog.


I don't know if you've ever seen it was a very weird time because it's like in New Orleans and it does that Disney thing where like it's very much about celebrating the culture, but also has to like this, like good white family who are like very rich, but like they love going down because, you know, she makes the best sugar pastries in town. They're just the good friends. She's really good friends because like her mother was like the white girls aren't.


So they used to play together and they love each other. They don't get all this silly racism comes out.


And I feel like a lot I feel like a lot of them to be like that. Yeah. Because I don't think Disney with well is prepared to say you can really say anything more about racism than just wouldn't it be nice. Why can't we all be pals. Yeah. And sort of what can really say. Because I don't think it can ever really discuss any heavy structural issues because obviously it's for kiddies.


Yeah. For kiddies. Although it did have the thing that I said, they're also cowards.


I just want to be clear. They are also cowards. They did have that thing.


I your group there is like a pig. Mr. Piggy describes money to key and it's like a five minute pig are short, describing the entire US monetary system, which is pretty funny.


You know, I couldn't find them on YouTube, but there's some old Looney Tunes shorts where Porky Pig explains capitalisms out over like a very like as opposed to communism way. I wish I could get stuff everything to again, drag this down to the mud.


Have you ever seen the short report says a bitch is great? No, that sounds good. I'm going to send it to you. It's fantastic.


Nice and pure covering the story you can check out.


Um, OK. Yeah. And as I said, I've been playing your tricks similar to you, which I now have one hundred and forty one person.


And that's just going to make your truck simulator free, I feel.


I don't think they will mind because they're releasing they're releasing updates for this one on time. Yeah. It's just this game has to make so much money for them because everyone I know has it and plays it constantly.


So it's just this great game just seems weird.


But because no one plays like, you know, like American trucker or an African truck simulator or anything like this is your choice simulator is one bit, but it's because I genuinely think it's because a company is not evil, is not made up of evil bastards.


Hmm. I think they just they want to make a fun game. They they release DLC that genuinely adds stuff to the game, like genuinely add sections to the game. And they know, they know that enough people are going to buy it. They're going to keep making money off this game and they're just going to keep supporting it. That's that's why I want to believe. Yeah, and basically, yeah, I don't I really don't I can't. They might grant your truck free, but then, you know, you you hit companies like eBay or Paradox or get shit for releasing those idiocy and then just like ditching games and stuff.


I don't think that going to happen because I've been I mean, I've been playing this game for years.


Mhm. And yeah. So I think it's uh. Yeah.


Well it paradoxically is supposed to be a very good company to work for comparatively is it. I think because like I don't know if you've heard all the stuff about Naughtie Crunch recently, it's called BioMarin Crunch and the credit crunch basically is a big crunch problem in the game industry, right?


Yeah. Yeah. So apparently are supposed to be very good to work for.


Was that because they don't fix their fucking bugs before they release it? There's no crunch. You just don't bother. Well, is that fixing the games? I try.


I like. That's a little. That's a little that's a little dig. I don't mind Ubisoft or too much I feel.


But there is some sort of early nirvana where you can probably have your employees work reasonable hours on the job, probably.


So it's less fucking bloated.


They used to say talking about. Yeah. Mm. They've, they've announced skate for which I. Oh yeah. On the one hand I'm incredibly excited for because it's long overdue and on the other hand it's pretty clear that they're only releasing it because there are no other skateboarding games we're playing and they want to get the grip on the market again, as I say, because like Tony Hawk announced the remaster of turning pro skater one.


Well, that's. Well, that's a different. That's a different that's a very Arcady skate game.


But I'll be honest, this is the one of those two that I'm going to buy.


Right. So there's a game called Session Games and which is like a realistic skates.


And there's another one called Skater Excel, which is pretty similar to a realistic skate game, whatever. And both of those came out in early access like last year. And they're currently still in early access, but nearing to release.


And they've both been in ICE for console release later this year. And then it comes out in the nineties.


It started working skate for well, actually, because that really annoying type of game announcement was just like we have nothing to show you, but we promised and it will be at least five years before the game comes.


Well, that's the other thing. Yeah. And it's really clear that they've done that purely because of these games, which on the one hand is fair enough.


But on the other hand, it's kind of like people have been asking for these games for a long time for skate for Metroid Prime, for which is the four entrain, like the prime series was like people were really wanting an entry for. I been like ten would I want to say twelve years since the last entry. And then, like when the switch was coming out, one of the first things they said was like, we're making a new Metroid prime time to switch.


We don't have anything to show you for show you form. You know, we're working on that kind of announcement. And then to like sometime last year, they said a special announcement and they're like, OK, guys, we're really sorry. But like development on Metroid Prime for has been going really badly. We're having to scrap the entire project and start again with new stuff. So like this point, despite the fact that it was probably close, like one of the first games announcement, this match prime for is probably going to be one of the last games released for this.


Yeah. And I think this shows the perils of announcing stuff too early. Yeah. She also literally anything scary has ever done.


Uh, yeah.


Um, so I think most people don't really realize how long game development actually is. So when you really just basically super unprofessional and takes like four years, even if that's like a reasonable time frame, it takes a long time, especially for bigger games.


So final final word. Most of my games, the steam, the steam summer sale started.


Yeah, I'm going to buy trails in the sky, SC and nothing else. I've I'm spending a lot lately and I like playing console.


Yeah I, I bought Zombie Army trilogy because I play, I played Zombie Army two and and it was fun. And this is a reminder of one, two and three. So I think I'll just play for them at some point. And it wasn't so and I don't know if I'm going to buy anything else. I was looking at my wish list. I did it became clear my wish lists where I went. Actually, I had, you know, like stuff I had I did like six years ago.


And I was like, OK, I don't know anymore. And so I've now got a more like. You know, the wishlists, I saw a lot of stuff in it that I might never buy, but it's looking more and more like I can keep an eye out for deals and stuff rather than just this huge thing.


But now like that, I own before the switch and the PS4. I can buy most games I want on steam on console, which I much prefer a laptop. And like I also just spent I also just recently acquired 1500 PC games.


Yeah, no, I think that's more than I've got when I'm looking at my steam library and I've got like 600.


So know they're all like arcade games. They're all like an hour or two hours long. Yeah. I mean it's a lot minurso a good few good men. Right. All right. Well we better call it there I think. Um, yeah.


So now which is Amax for listening. Um, as we said, we love you all five of you. As we said I would recommend reading catch twenty two. I personally do recommend watching TV shows so.


And Jamie is going to read the book for next week so that he can talk about, uh, ten year anniversary.


Oh. All right, bye bye, guys. Thanks for listening.