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If three, two, one, mark.


Yeah, on the since of that time. Hello, everyone. Hello.


I'm going to keep that in. Yeah, I was I was trying not to do my usual and say, like, OK, and then you went for that. So I'm just going to keep it together. It's not just me.


Yeah. We got to be a little amateurish. Strong.


Exactly. In surfing. How are you today, Jimmy? You. I'm fine. What are we doing?


We are the Golden Turkeys podcast. I am Duncan. You're Jamie. I'm quite tired today as well. And so we'll see how that goes. Maybe I'll perk up as we engage in brilliant conversation. So we're the clients podcast. We talk about films that came out 50 years ago this week.


Oh. Yeah, I am drenched in sweat today is very high and yeah, it's pretty hot here, as I like to say. Um, are you having anything to quench your first and your article?


I'm having a delicious alcohol free Heineken promote lager. Nice. I sponsor for today is the Heineken nice.


Jamie's drinking just drinking beer in a podcast by car company Colomban.


And here all the games, basically Joe Rogan already exactly crack a crack, open a cold one and listen to us discuss the games from the night before July 1970, but also apparently April. But we're going to go for the one that fits our podcast.


So, yeah, we let you stay with Survival's It or. No, I think the UK date was. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah.


We didn't name her Jilli. The games, yeah. How do you what do you think this film is about your listener? I'll give you five seconds to guess. That's right, it's about the Olympics and the Olympics. Yeah, yeah, you got it. And it sure is.


So, um, I don't have any historical context this time, really back home. But in the world workups. God is not in the charts. It's gone. Oh. Oh.


I wonder if the World Cup actually was finished by now.


Uh, usually finishes around this time. I don't know how consistent it's been over the last year or so.


Uh, the. 21ST of June, it finished, so, yeah, that would be a V like two, three weeks ago, so we were just pretend that we did. Well done, Brazil.


Congratulations, you won. OK, so that was. Oh, that's interesting. So the World Cup was in Mexico. And as we were discussing before, before this podcast, the Olympics before this were in Mexico in 1968. Yes.


So I think this film was not released any time close to an Olympic Games.


It was released right and right between two of them. And it's certainly fictional Olympic Games in Rome.


And clearly, if you're going to make a film about the Olympic Games, surely you would try and time it so that you're at least the nearest ones. You can pick up the hype. And I don't know.


I think that people would just watch the Olympics. And I feel like this was probably a strategy.


Well, maybe like if you released it, like in the February of that year, if they were talking to you just when the conversations were getting to heat up, maybe.


Well, I guess I say the TV show 2012 started two years before 2014. Did he mention to you, too? Yeah, you know, it's like it was like a sitcom about the Olympic Planning Committee for London. Oh, you won a. After the Olympics happened, so, um, Cool Runnings came out in nineteen ninety three and the Winter Olympics were. In 1992. So it came at the Olympics you can think of. Well, that's that's the closest thing I could think.


You know, that's an Olympic film, that's a Winter Olympic film, and it is not released the same year as the Winter Olympics or the Olympics. I think that you capitalize on and the fact that Olympics are not on and won't be for a while. And I think that's probably the idea, though.


If you look at the takings for the film, it didn't work just for me to look at this from big losses, like seven million dollar budget to million dollar on rental. I got this. Yes, that five million lost.


So it didn't do great. But yeah, I feel like they released it and not in an Olympic year in order for people that are interested in it to, you know, not because it's not a true story. And so we just watch the Olympics if you want it.


If you're hungry for that, it's not that Olympic fever and exactly two years and you don't know what you're to do with yourself. You can have a reflection of a reflection in this film.


Exactly. Mm. Good. So that's the film and that's it. Thanks for listening.


I shall do my part somewhere now. Yeah. Let's do the same thing. OK, so we've got our boy Harry Hayes. He's a milk Windsor and he's a real cheeky chappy is he's like two words. Yeah. He's exactly like Michael Caine. Yeah. Let's say that honestly was the two words cheeky chappy. You have immediately understood everything there is to know about Harry Hayes. Yeah. And he's very talented at running, he does running when he's doing his milk from sort of one thing and one day my understanding is like, hey, you ever considered joining the club?


I was like, oh, I'll get gum. I just run from yourself than I.


And then he goes, Well, how about running for your country, son? Now, that comes a bit later. I like. Yeah, come join the running club.


Yes, and then it goes to join the running club that he meets there, a surly coach who's an X runner used to be the greatest, you know, anything below ever. He's got a big moustache.


You know, he played Jimmy. He played Bill Oliver. I've forgotten. His name is Stanley Baker. Yeah, he was.


He was in Zuli with Michael Caine. He was going to come back to, I think we should mention, Michael Caine every week. And Michael Caine, we should mention Michael Caine every week.


Just to be clear, Harry Hayes is a very much a budget. Michael Caine. That's true. I mean, I think even at this point, Michael Caine was slightly too old for the role, but yeah, probably.


Yeah, regardless. But Stanley Baker is not too old for the role of the coach, and he is the coach is the coach. July, he's grumpy. He doesn't like these new runners, but he sees something in Harry and he takes him under his wing. He's got to train them up to be the best spokesman. Exactly. So this is the premise of this film basically is that we follow four runners and then we have a race with the runners at the end.


Yeah. So the second runner is an American who goes to Yale. He is the least likable character in this entire film. Yeah, he's cocky. That's fine.


Yeah. And so I know you go and I'll say stop and you get to the end of the US guy.


And I know his deal is that he has a heart condition and he shouldn't be racing anymore. If he races again, he'll be risking his health. Yeah. And so, you know, that's the second story. Again, you sort of seeing the level of originality we're dealing with here. Mm hmm.


So, um, yes. The other guy is he's at Yale. Right. Which is the university college.


So. How come he's at the end of his career? You mean in terms of health or. Well, I read a review that was like and it follows us guy at the end of his career, but I don't think he well, I guess he is because of the health issues.


Yes. I'm assuming from the context of the story, I'm assuming, is that yellow sports scholarship? Yeah, exactly. I mean, presumably you'd have a long career ahead of him if it wasn't for his heart issues. Yeah, right. Oh, just to be clear, like the heart issues, the American highs aren't like permanent. If you just took three months off, he'd be fine. Yeah. Like he's going out in a blaze of glory, just to be clear.


Yeah. But that's the issue of the Olympics being every four years and there is people, yeah, no free is the so early on in the film, Harry Hayes beats the world record for I think it's like a five mile run or something. Six miles and. Yeah. And then it's got the old record holder, the Iron Man in Czechoslovakia. His name is Verdigris.


Uh, do Pavel Vendig. Bendek Classic. Yeah, he's a Czech man. He's forty one. And he's like, you know, good for him. I had five years and record. Now find someone else. But his superiors are like, look here Vendig, we can't have the East losing face to the West like this. No Olympics. This is if we if the East has better runners than the West, then everyone will think communism's great. So we need to get back in the field.


Forty one years old. And to reclaim your victory against this upstart man at the Olympics. Yes, it's still not a lot really happened. And he's he's a general as well as colonel.


But Colonel, which apparently is a thing they say at one point that's the thing that these these communist bloc countries with and put athletes in the military and and train them in that way.


Yeah, because it's because there's at least at this time, the Olympics are only for amateurs.


Yeah. So weird things.


So so they would put people in the military. I don't know how true that is, but in the film it's implied that, um, like all the all the Czech guys are in the military and they just train all day, every day. And but that's like the loophole. Did you get the impression? I mean, I I assumed, like the cardinal was like, you know, joining the military was the thing you did afterwards, like entirely and internalize the thing, even though I noticed it right there.


Well, they definitely said at one point in the film that that was a thing and.


Yeah. I mean, makes sense. You're killing two birds with one stone, aren't you? Really, like, you know, you got a well trained military man out there as well as an athlete? Yeah. If it doesn't really have an arc in the film is what I was trying to bring up was like he guys told to train and he has a little bit of hesitation and I just kind of does it and then going to get to roam the military superiors like, hey, you're not going to defect or even that.


And he's like, no, I'm just kind of his film. You know, is there he. And apparently is a thing I'm looking at The New York Times now and an article from 1974 that 20 of the 20 players on the Soviet national ice hockey team eight are listed as members of the Air Force and seven as members of the Army. And then they spent their whole military time playing ice hockey. So apparently that's a thing. So that's quite cool.


So that's how they got round the amateur professional. I get like the idea of having everyone be an amateur, but like, it does seem really counter intuitive in terms of, like, getting the best of the best was like, yeah. And to me is like a competition to see who has, like, the most free time to spend doing athletics. Yeah, I think it changed like a politician in a way.


Like if you don't get paid and you're suddenly like locking out a lot of people who would otherwise be able to do it, you know, let me look.


When did Olympics compression? 1986 was the first time.


And I think that was a whole I remember reading there was a whole re and organization of all sorts of like athletic bodies and organizations, because suddenly it was professional.


And I think I think the main reason for that was the growth in TV viewership of live sports and like this kind of thing in particular.


And it became it's a lot more interesting to watch professionals and do stuff than, you know, you or me. Yeah, so thing like like I'm saying like if you allow professionals, the standards obviously to become much higher by virtue of amateurs also after the other stuff to support themselves. That's true. I think so, yeah, I think it's also sports. It depends on the sport. And like I know, I know for American football, the International League is amateur only because obviously, if it was professional, America would just win.


Yeah, everything, you know, I mean, so like for first sports like that, where there's an imbalance in certain countries or an imbalance in a lot of countries, I guess there's always going to be an imbalance, but an imbalance in low countries. It makes sense to have international competition be immature, but for stuff like athletics, where you only need one person or something like football, where most countries have a professional sort of development system or whatever you want to call it, I think it makes a lot more sense of it.




Yeah. You know, I mean, it depends on context.


Yeah, exactly. It depends on the body and the amount and people you have doing it professionally. But yeah, definitely. So anyway, the point is that this time it was amateur. Yeah.


Yeah. Um, for our last boy is an indigenous land from Australia. Um, I've forgotten his name again Sunny. So he doesn't actually funny to me seems like a vaguely insulting nickname.


Mono Pintupi is his name to me. Yeah. That was his tribe wasn't it.


Yeah, so just to be clear, the actual main character of the Australian like segments is a man named Jim who's like Batman, and then he sort of takes in Pintupi. And the perspective is very much from Big Jim. So it's just kind of is just sort of there as a sort of black man.


Well, until until the ending. Well, yeah, so it's a bit weird, too bizarre because it's. Basically, it's mostly about Jim for a while and then towards the end, sort of had to be. Is encouraged by a scientist from Zambia not to run yet to make a sort of statement about racism and almost all of the sections of community feel incredibly racist.


Incredible. So, yeah, like wrong to say. Like, genuinely, I think it's quite stunning, even the stuff we've seen so far as that is that is what happened at the time, though.


I don't think it was I think it was. Yes, I'm sure it will see me, I hate to break your bubble, but I think until very recently, I mean, you still see various people, but I think until very recently and a lot places like the white man was just incredibly racist.


And I find that racist, obviously. I'm just saying I don't think the practice of taking in Aboriginal people and using them for slave labor was too widespread.


But I think he's I mean. Yeah, I think it. Mm. Yeah. Kind of depends how you define it because he's he is getting paid but not really either. But as part of the plot, not getting paid by the Americans like you see, and I'm not sure what does that mean has ever been paid for running is like he's an amateur.


Yeah. But I would say that all of the films we've seen last, none of them have been like to to progressive on the racism front, have at the very least acknowledge like the humanity of black characters, which I'd say doesn't really happen, doesn't know that to has a truly remarkable lack of agency for almost all of the film until his big arc moment is when he's asked not to run to make a statement for like black rights.


And then he says no.


And then he runs off your own issues, which I think is yeah, it's like this. I think I think that the point is that he's. He does want to run. Yeah, he wants to do it his way and he doesn't want to not run to try and prove a point, basically he wants to sort of break free.


But like I think I think that's the sort of tough thing, is that he does, actually. Doesn't mind the running, you know?


Yeah, well, that could be a very different film if, like, they held them at gunpoint and forced them to run or like they said, we're not going to look after you unless you run, which I mean, they kind of do do that. But, you know, it's he does want to run. It's a really weird one.


Well, undoubtedly it's I.


But it's how. Racist, I think his arc as written, and I'm wondering if it may come off a bit different than the original novel is about trying to establish his own agency. Yeah, I think so. Between the forces of Big Jim and what the scientist from Zambia wanted to do. Yeah, I think that's it. I think I'll see what I want to do. Well, the issue is that what he wants to do happens to align exactly with what Big Jim wants him to do anyway.


Yeah, like if it was like I thought the way they're going to do it was like Big Jim was like saying, you know, we need you to come like in fifth place or whatever and then would, you know, peel out. I hadn't got first. And that would be like staking his claim from victims. Very happy when he went. Yeah. So really, all that happens is that unlike there's no real like the camera doesn't the camera doesn't give him agency, as it were in the moment of the big decision for him would presumably be at the starting line where he decides whether to run or not.


But they look for that and they just sort of come back to him halfway through the race. That's like the first time they mention running and it's just he runs good and he wins. So there is the beginnings of a good character arc and perhaps the only really original one or halfway original one in the film. But it doesn't really do anything with that. Yeah, I mean, I I guess it could do with them showing what happens going forward, because obviously Shaikh's you know, he shakes Vandyke's hand and he's like now one of the the big runners.


It's like handing off the torch. And then the film just ends and it kind of feels like maybe it wouldn't be his it could have been completed in some way by this champion. I don't know. Yeah.


Even if he just like, told them to fuck off and that would be something, you know. Yeah. Um. But I think I think we are supposed to like Jim, are we? Well, I think he's like a funny big guy in a funny way.


I don't think we should like him.


And I said no, but he is kind of like, yeah, it's hard. It's hard to tell how much of the racism is and supposed to prove a point and like show what he's gone through and how much of it is just like they didn't even mean it that way. That was just part of the film. You know, I mean, it's kind of hard to tell if I felt any, like firsthand accounts or even those could be wrong, obviously, but you know what I mean?


Like, yeah, it could be that he's treated so poorly and all the racist stuff is all written for the audience to be like, oh my God, that's so racist. Being kind of feels like it could just be that that's kind of how they were written at the time.


Yeah, well, I think Jim Jim's racism is like part of the tax thing. It's just it's supposed to be like a funny racist, you know, definitely. And like a way you can laugh. And like the only other thing is the film's stance towards, like, the actions taken by Zambia during the Olympics. But the only time they really comment on it exactly twice, one of which is why and how he's trainer. The sense that they're being uncivilized, I'm one of them is when Sonny says that you won't protest on their behalf.


Yeah, it's not the films and most of the films trying to trying his best and a certain nearsighted way to be progressive. It's message of progression is like don't take direct action, fight back in your own way, which is really disturbed me if you don't.


I mean, I was kind of expecting Sonny to do like a black black power fist or something at the end.


Yeah, just like that.


You know, like I still run the race, but I support this cause.


Yeah, like the way those windows, the phone lines of having his cake and eating it in that Sonny gets to do what he wants and Big Jim wins what he wants.


I suppose the argument could be the sonny doesn't even realize because like while skipping races to him, they're not.


And I know, yeah, that's the same as racist races, there could be some maybe that maybe the implications that he doesn't know any different. Well, the sounds like I'll give you back everything you gave me and then you just hands and the shoes like this, clearly a twinkle of animosity as it was now. Yeah, well, yeah, at least I don't think the film doesn't really condemn Big Jim in any way. Something doesn't really get agency against him.


So it just kind of comes off as just remarkably passé, I suppose, towards the attitude taken.


Yeah, I really I really don't think that the that's supposed to be a major part of the film, you know. Yeah, well, I think yeah, I think the are. Well, like sarnies are. It's about agency, I'm supposed to just turn away my son. I think the film's attitude towards it's just isn't funny when Big Jim is racist. Yeah, I don't really have many more developed opinions on that other than, like I say, violent protest is wrong.


And I saw this. Two more points.


Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, so I guess we should. So so that's the four characters. So you've got yeah. Harry Hayes, the milkman, and Scott, the American Yale Sports Scholarship guy, Scott Reynolds Pable Vendig, the old Czech runner, and sunny Pintupi, the average Australian and guy.


So they they go for their various arcs, which we might go into more. And then they all end up in the marathon in the Olympics in 1970 and hilarity ensues. Yeah, not really hilarity, but one of the slightly weird things about this film, and I guess this is the structure of the is the way it's structured, is that it's like, you know, we have to learn these four characters. Guetzloe was about them. Unlike in films like this, you assume or as intended, I should say, we like.


So when you put these four characters that we all know very well and competition will be more engaging because they're interacting with each other, you understand? Yeah, but the thing is that both the nature of marathon running and the way it set off in the film is that they don't really interact during the competition. No. So there's no real payoff to being invested in them. I would agree.


Well, I don't know either if you did it so the four of them were more lined up in the marathon, so they were more dangerous with each other more directly, or if it was another sport where there's no boxing or some boxing cliche, obviously, but it's just there's more interaction between competitors or you. Sure.


Their mental processes or anything or even even interaction before or after because. So, yeah, they do meet before.


So people don't even have the pin to eat meat. But I don't think I'm Harry Hayes, obviously. No.


And when they obviously know of each other, I don't know the meat because remember, they race against each other and he gets beaten. Oh yeah. Once before.


But I mean, my point is that the meat but there's no real meeting. Like, they just there's like this respect for each other and like Paval meets Harry and beats him and then they they go their separate ways and then Sonny and Scott do a race on the beach and then you go separate ways and like that's all that happens. Yeah. In terms of the characters meeting before the Olympics, whereas I feel like there was an opportunity to create. Some kind of tension or conflict?


Yeah, well, if you a cliche for a sports film like this film is already superficial.


It was just like rivalry or exactly actually dislike each other or something or another, as they all seem to get along quite well and they're all pretty friendly, although they really care now that I think whether I kind of like it, almost like I feel like I feel like it would have been very easy to like, have Harry be like the good British guy and then have people be like the evil Czech guy, or if it's like evil team, you know, like I'm thinking like Cool Runnings, like the Swiss.


And then I think in Eddie the Eagle, it's also like a Swiss guy, you know, and you've always got these, like, stereotypical film villains.


And I feel like it is almost nice to have the individuals at least be because you sit they still talk about the conflict between East and West and stuff, but actually having the individuals and knowing the importance, if I can still yeah, you can still have sporting things where, like, every character likes each other and say to each other, you can still have that have a proper rivalry where like regardless of, you know, the spirit of competition, they still want to beat each other.


You can still make sure that, you know, there's not a lot of intensity to the competition itself. No, I'm just saying that would be an easy way to create if you want to spread the message of the film, I trying to go for not you know, it's not about the winning. It's about doing your part.


Yeah, well, they let me play that clip at the end when they do that stupid thing where they play a voiceover and do like black and white photos and it's profound quote unquote. But yeah. So it's so the film's families talk about, they all try very hard, I suppose the uniting thing between. Yeah, well yeah. If there was just a little more this needs to be something else to the race itself because as it is, they just have to think about it just like was the person.


They always kind of do their own thing during the race. Yeah. That's just a bit of a waste of Saathoff, as it were.


I mean, I guess the idea is that they all come together at the end, so.


Yeah, but even if it was if it was just, say, Harry and Van Dyke or if it was just two of them and you developed them a lot more and made it so that they were friends, but maybe they have like a bit more of a friendly rivalry going on. Yeah. And you could be a bit more invested in the race itself. But as it is, I don't think I really don't think it would be impossible to make this film much better than just focusing on four people.


I suppose it would be easier to focus on and just to. Yeah, I mean, or focus on right with him between East and West more. Yeah, I guess they touch on it, but they don't really.


Yeah, yeah. I mean, like feels like it's sort of obvious that once they like interact with each other, like it's really just got on the tube and Hayes and Van Dyke interacting and they sort of form off in pairs as it were. Yeah, exactly. Um so yeah, it just needs to be more focused on the competition between the characters because it's quite hard to get invested in houses. Yeah. Before characters undergoing their own separate battle against themselves, as it were.


Yeah. I guess, I guess part of it is trying to show the sort of Olympic multinational. Yeah but I agree they could have done that there.


But I guess that's why they focused on the four people from like four very different parts of the world.


And then. You know, together there's a figure skating on me, and I know you love it when I take the conversation, the story nice, um, which talks about like this is like about figure skating at the Olympics and that's really over the line very well. And that because all the characters in that show love each other very much and they're incredibly friendly to each other. But you still care about the competition because they all are actually competing, as it were.


And, you know, they have conversations and stuff. Right. But like, that's also quite a sport visually as well, because, you know, there's gaps between performers. You can have like discussions in between them at times in a way that's visually interesting. Yeah, it is.


This is the interesting thing about the whole marathon thing is that, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but none of these none of the runners are marathon runners explicitly. They all get converted to marathon runners just for the Olympics, I think.


Right. Because it just does a little bit of everything.


Yeah, well, he does have everything, but he's been doing this six miles and stuff. And then the six mile record broke was Vendig. So you assume that Bendek run that and Pintupi just runs on the beach and Scott and says that he's just going to enter old events, which implies it's not especially this one.


So you would think that they could have made it. I mean, the reason for the marathon is obviously because it's so hard and it's like the big event, the big, long event. But you would think that they could have made it a shorter race that they've all been established to run. Yeah. You know, and then and then it would be a lot easier to watch the competition more.


Yeah, well, I suppose for Harry, what happens to Harry is that his coach tells him to do it in less than two hours. It's not done for cancer. Patient himself to hide is complete rack my arm. Yeah, they want to have that moment. It can't realistically be like anything shorter than the marathon.


That's true. Oh that is. Yeah, that is that. So it's it. So do you know how fast the two hour marathon is?


Less than two and a half minutes per mile, yes, so one one person ever in the entire world has run it. And it was it was on a. A set course, so it's not an official record because it was on a set course and with pacesetters and like a shifting group of pacesetters that were running in a V formation, and he had these special trainers on and they picked like the absolute best weather possible out of a seven day cycle.


It was like the flattest route and the closest to sea level they could do. They had a car in front of them that was projecting his pace on the ground in front of him so he could check that he was constantly the right pace. And and that's the only person who's ever run a two two hour marathon. And it doesn't count because of all those all those various things that were changing it. Enabling it. Yeah.


So I kind of felt a bit I didn't really get that. Like, I assume it was a shame Bill was just saying him completely unrealistic goals and the hope that he would get close to it.


Yeah, but that one just seems I think the point with Bill is that, like, he puts too much faith in how his ability and eventually yes or no.


I think he does because he says he says like he says, you're going to beat the world record in his like in his first proper race and which is insane.


But I think from from stuff I watch from the past, it seems that the hardest part about longs, but one of the hardest parts of long distance running is keeping an eye on your own pace. You don't really have any markers yet. The markers, you have a very rare and obviously it's so important to keep an eye on your energy level and stuff like that. And it does not do that. And he looks very convincing, exhausted by the end that's there.


Yeah, at the mouth and everything. Fair play to him.


Yeah. I mean, I would have to say the acting and especially in terms of like when they're actually running and stuff is pretty good, you know.


Do you agree overall?


Well, yeah. Well, like I was saying before, I feel an issue with running as a choice. I mean, I think it's partly the way they shot it as well. I think we could've done more. That could have been a more interesting way and maybe not with 1970s camera technology. But it looks, though, um. Yes, I feel I must say, really, I think if you have the camera closer or maybe more in line with the writers perspective, maybe a little more interesting.


Again, I realized in the 70s was a fucking huge. Yeah.


And obviously, this is a fairly low budget.


Yeah, exactly. But it's just it's shot like my off and running on the tell and which if you watch the marathon you'll know is quite dull. Yeah. And it's not really great because the way it's presented, you're hearing the commentary as well. So it's just like you're watching on the TV and arguing about you, at least for me that made me feel a lot more like distant from the characters the way I was. I feel the advantage of like sports is when you do a sports film.


Well, in the sports, TV is obviously narrative also because you can shoot it in the forest in a way that's more. Yes. Yeah, yeah, I know I was. And it felt more like a sort of TV film. Yeah. Didn't it? From what I from what I saw about they said it was rentals. They were money making money. So what if it was a made for TV film.


Could be Dinham. And or something like that, because definitely I mean, it's so in. For free, right, bizarrely, other than the opening credits were suddenly completely changed the aspect ratio to Wide-screen, right.


Cool. I didn't even know. So I for free, which to me implies television. A little overkill. Obviously, a lot more films are shot that I think I think all the other ones we've seen have been shot in widescreen ish.


So or maybe not. I might be making up to you this. I think you're fair.


I think you're right in saying that. Not quite so far as been for free or at least no.


And so I'm looking at marathon times here and the record. There was a new record set in 1970 in Edinburgh. Actually, I cool. And which was two hours. Nine mm.


Where is that. Oh no that's not. Oh yeah. No that is the record. Yeah. Two hours. Nine. Twenty eight. So they were looking to cut 10 minutes off the road record at the time, and currently the world record is two, two hours, one minute and thirty nine seconds. So it would be a minute and a half of the current world record as well. So it's pretty insane, basically. And I realize, like for sports films, you want to raise the stakes and everything, so you definitely want to do something about.


And I mean, I assume I assume that's always like I know at the moment, a two hour marathon is like the ultimate goal.


And so I assume I assume it's just been for ages.


Yeah, well, the five minute mile was let me go for a long time. I mean, obviously it was broken and a bunch of people broke out once. Yeah. I don't know if the anecdotes about this incident in sports, you know.


You know, I think it does. I think I think I think once that got broken, the sort of main running thing to go for, I'm pretty sure I read that once I got broken. The main thing to run for was a American. Yeah, that was the next big thing, you know, like once people did that. I'm sure I'm sure it will happen eventually. But regardless, the point to take away, I think this discussion is that this film is basically an hour long build up to one race and that race kind of sucks.


So I don't know if it sucks, but it definitely is not.


I didn't think it sucked, but I didn't think it was the the big cinematic spectacle that had been.


Delonte, I suppose it doesn't justify the buildup, even if you saw that, you probably enjoy it just as much. Yeah, yeah.


I think that's something that's very it.


And so I guess we can say what happens to people. So Harry runs the marathon and he's close to being two hours, but then he collapses as he enters the stadium and finishes.


But he barely gets the point where his coach can run at the same pace and then he slows down to just below walking pace.


And then his coach has a has a bad leg. Yeah. And then he gets to the point where he can't even follow the course properly. And so going around like weird circles and zigzags. Yeah, I just I think it's like two hundred and thirty yards away is when he breaks down on other really early lead. So it's really Harry Harris race, as it were, is more about whether his early lead is enough to sustain him as he slows down.


Yeah. Which is not because he completely he collapses over the finish line and then. Well, so the thing is. Yeah, good for him. He tried.


Yeah. But he I mean, he comes in like seven thirty first thing. Yeah.


Yeah. So that's him. Scott, Scott Reynolds and. But don't you ever wonder about. Yeah, yeah, but he's also he also takes pills and we forgot to say they're. That's not like. There's a sceneries like I don't have I don't know about this man, should I be saying these bills? It's like, yeah, dude, it's fine. Yeah. And then it never really gets brought up again. I was wondering if maybe that calls the heart thing.


Yeah, no, I think it definitely but I think that's a point.


And also the handover of the pills seems very obvious to me. Well, oh, well, during the race, yeah, like they're running, they do it a few times where he's running and then he just grabs out the hand and puts him in his knife.


And to me, if I was an official, I would be going, why did you just give that guy a really long high five and then, like, touch him?


Yeah, I mean, I get the 70s. I was thinking if I'm stupid. Fair enough. I mean, I've got it would be a lot easier to cheat. And so I'm sure you could win them off. And they're like, you are supposed to be handling people's stuff.


That's true. I guess. Yeah. Anyway, so he collapses like two thirds of the way for a free cause.


The first time he runs into a wall, he runs into a wall. Actually, it's very fun and it's funny. Like I say, he's very cocky and annoying. So it is kind of think the effect with him going for. But at least it was nice to see him guys come up and.


No, I think that is what the film's coming here, because there's another there's another point where he has a race. I think the race in Japan and where he's supposed to be racing in the morning and he's like all night partying.


Yeah. Is that right? Yeah. He's like the race starts at 7:00. Am I for it was seven. Yeah, exactly. And he's just got home.


I've never heard in my life of a race starting at so starting in the evening.


So yeah that's true. And so anyway, I think I think he, I think he said I know. Why would you ever start a race that last that long at seven p.m. at night, maybe because it's in Japan.


So for the although I guess it be the nighttime crowd.


But no, no, I was thinking like for the televised worldwide open. Yeah. But I don't know.


I don't think they would have been televised like just a normal and I'm maybe I'm being watched, you know, because. I think the first international broadcast was the night concert where the Beatles played All You Need Is Love. So I would have to endure the 60s. I think international broadcasts are widespread.


I mean, they broadcast the marathon anyway.


So that's that's so I think I think he I think the idea is that he is going where he deserves because he's. Unlike the other people, he's naturally gifted but is not willing to put the work in, and I don't think so. I think you're supposed to like him honestly.


Maybe your spouse like him in the same way you like the racist.


And no, I don't think I don't think he's supposed to come off as lazy. I think he's supposed to come off as charmingly confident as it were. Yeah. I don't think his lack of work ethic is considered a reckless and irresponsible. But like, you know, the height of that is that they signed up for a marathon or something. No, no.


I mean, the height of that is he takes pills and stays overnight the day before a marathon.


Yes, but but there are some things the staying up all night, almost like an innocent mistake. Obviously, it's a stupid thing to do. But I don't think it's supposed to be hubris. I think it is.


I think it definitely is, because even if the race didn't start at 7:00 a.m., you shouldn't be out the night before your.


Well, you know, you shouldn't. I think I think it's supposed first time. I think it's supposed to be charming, likeable. Well, I think it's not a look at us.


Disagreeing isn't the same. Yeah. So it's a bit weird, right? Well, but Harry comes into conflict with church because he sort of stops listening to him for a while and takes it really personally.


He goes, coach takes a ticket because his coach saves his girlfriend for existing. Mm hmm.


And Harry doesn't like that wandering off of a female. He's going to ruin his career. Yeah.


So, I mean, the implication is definitely that Bill wishes he had had a longer career himself and. Yeah, sees Harry as like his prodigy and therefore treats him as if it is himself and realizing it's another person. Yeah, exactly, or at least he's unnecessarily controlling. Yeah, exactly, because he feels like his career. Didn't go to the heights that he hoped it would, and he now feels like there's something else he can project onto, which is a classic sports film or just don't shape it.


Yeah, I think if you're looking for a fresh original sports film is going to show you something you've never seen before. This isn't the film, isn't it? Yeah. Um. Then I haven't really done a lot well with cliches, honestly, I feel the defenses and cliches that they work and people like them, but I don't think any of the storytelling, even like us, you know, see, even in even within the boundaries of cliche, it works a lot.


Well, I don't feel there's not much of a real bond between Harry and Bill. I pick up on I don't find the next thing that interesting. I was trying to reclaim his own glory because I believe he really cares about it that much. I don't really worry about. Scott, thanks very much. He's not really focused on. So, yeah, I don't know. I just I feel like you're going to resort to cliches to try and get your money's worth.


Think what really happens. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mmm mmm, mmm, interesting for. I don't really say about this film, so if you have something with my son, well, something we forgot to mention was there is another element where the marathon should have been canceled because of the heat.


Oh, yeah. But then the Olympic chairman wants to make money from the TV rights and the American TV people are saying we can't put it on at night because we don't have the rights that no channel buy it. So they run the marathon in the middle of the day when it's really too hot. And a cyclist, a cyclist had died today before, which is like the Bekasi.


I. So that's another bit of drama in the film, and that's probably why Harry collapsed. Yeah, I mean, it's only really mentioned in the context of Harry Storyline's or something, really, Harry, when we talk about it. Yeah, my film is supposed to be like. Making clear that this is a very irresponsible decision not to tell her to do two hours. Well, I think I think it's also an irresponsible decision by the Olympic Committee as well.


Because all the implications that all the medical advisers are saying don't run it are the only people that are going to run it are the TV people. And then the chairman goes, money, OK, money like that's the drama there.


Hmm. But also, as you say, links into her story, obviously. Yeah, let me have a look at my notes here, Steve, if this film made me think a lot about how 60s Britain always looks a bit shit. Uh, I'm sure there are parts of it that look nice. But then everyone in film. I don't think it was and I think between the 60s and 80s, it was not very nice, by the way, but, um, so.


Oh, there's there's a few funny jokes in it, and I Joe, actually looking at my notes here, I think you're right.


I think the American is supposed to be likable because he does the drinking game at the start.


Oh, yeah. And then it's very weird. The Chugalug game. Well, it doesn't take a long thing.


And then it's like, what shall we bet on, Smithey? And then the girls like you could bet on it. I'm a fan or something.


What is weird is, you know, OK, I'm nice. I remember the was a dream game. I think that the arc, his arc is that he starts off, as you're saying, I was like a charismatic and slightly cocky but likeable guy. And I think the film was trying to say that that can go too far. Yeah, now that I think about it, because humility when it's forced upon them. Exactly. I think I think he I think he starts off being very likable.


But then as the film progresses and he makes more bad decisions because of his personality or, you know, whatever, then I think he changes to become not likeable. And I think that's the point. And I think he probably realizes himself when he runs into the wall.


Have you ever seen The Wrestler? Yeah. Yeah. But it's just I feel just the nice thing about cliches that's very easy to recommend films that do the same thing better. If you want to film like that, watch The Wrestler.


It's his. I'm trying to remember exactly what he's asking you.


Yeah. He has a heart attack if you want to wrestle again. Yes, that's right. Yeah. Oh. The film doesn't, but I guess that one's more that he doesn't know anything else, isn't it? Well, yeah, exactly. But, you know, it's it's an interesting direction to take the conflict. Again, not unusual. Yeah, but there's focus and context. And you feel something when the time comes. Yeah. I would say are true.


Scott, that is a really good film, isn't it.


Yeah. Um, there's a lot of bagpipes in the film despite the fact that they're in England. Yeah.


Is weird. Yeah. It's not really much going on in this room, but. Well, we got here. Oh, yeah. So I think this was a good joke when when when Harry joins the running club. And I think this this shows his cheeky Chappy character that we were talking about earlier. When he joins the running club, the guy says you better find your coach. And he says, that's all right. I'd rather run. And it's pretty funny, and I feel like that really captures his character exactly.


You know, there's nothing on there than Wordplay really is exactly, you know, the blitz for.


Oh, yes. Something else. Something else I thought was as I was watching it, so they're telling the four stories, as you said, and the four stories are almost entirely separate and apart from the the the two pairs me at one point and then the old me and and but I felt like they kind of they weren't split very evenly or or maybe that's not the right way of putting it.


But they weren't spread out.


They weren't spread out very evenly. And you kind of ended up saying we've not seen X for a while and almost all of our stuff was in the beginning.


It kind of vanishes. Exactly. Exactly.


And then the next barely in the film ever made one of the main characters. It is really scenes.


Yeah. And then there's a couple there's a couple of bits where a character has like a really, really long bit. And then another character is a really short bit. And then it's back to the characters along with another long bit. And I feel like that's not necessarily a problem.


But and it definitely is really a weird thing to complain about. So I think in any other form you say as a complement, is that at the beginning Harry is very clearly even for the first 40 minutes before say Harry is very good, the protagonist. Yeah, I'm not like all the resources are devoted towards him, but towards the very end of the film, he's sort of he doesn't get any special focus compared to the other three.


Yeah. Um, which actually is almost nice.


It doesn't say the world, the world is established and then as things are introduced and they become more, you know, not I'm thinking about it. As you know, I've just finished watching all the Marvel films. Yeah, right.


And it's it's kind of the same as that. And in a way, we're like, if you think about that, you have a character like Black Panther is introduced briefly in one film. Then after that, films, you know, he's introduced in a way that he relates to the other characters and then he's developed later on. And so that almost works where like you hear about then Dec. four seats, you focus entirely on Harry, then you hear about Bendek.


You see Vendig very briefly. So you get an idea of who he is. Then you go back to Harry's story, finish there, and then you learn more about Bendek. I almost feel now that I'm actually thinking about it, I almost feel like it works quite well. Well, you say about like Van Dyke. Yeah, yeah, sort of like seating for Scott and Sonia and you stop for nothing. It just splashes.


Yeah, maybe I'm just thinking of the one example.


Well, I think there's elements of I think this film could have been made in a much more elegant way. Yeah. And both in terms of introducing characters and having them clash in a more satisfying way. Like it's not an original idea. But obviously the core idea of let's introduce four ambassadors and then have them competing thing is perfectly solid. But I don't think there's a I don't think it really pulls it off in any way, that becomes more than the sum of its parts.


Mm hmm. Um. I would also say to completely derail the discussion, I don't think Marvel Films ever really master as well as probably always happens to my feelings. I don't feel I do really take advantage of having free established characters for anything other than just not having to do exposition. Hmm. All right. Yaku. I mean, let's talk about and Wells something, and then they call London the white city at one point. Have you ever heard that before?


Nope. I guess it's got some white stones, and obviously that's what it. Um.


Yes, sorry, I've got my notes written down here, and rather than typed up, which I would say I normally typed them up and organizing the bit where you pay me, you've hit me with you've got nothing left to talk about.


And no, I'm not having to.


Little where you go to sites you're seeing in Australia and they go, oh, look, it's the Opera House, but I'll never be finished. And, you know, is not oh, that's cool. As I didn't know the future school.


Yeah. Uh. You know, OK, so there's. Hmm. Oh, OK, here's another funny bit. So there's a bit when they when they're all in the airport in all different countries in London, the airport. And there's a couple of characters that you're not seeing before. They're like and you haven't seen our polls for the povo. We had them when we left home. And I just followed the idea of like an Olympic team forgetting something is pretty funny.


And and that takes me on to another story that my my one of my dad's friends and it's known for. So he he was he was in the pipe band for his school and he was the big like the big bass drummer. Mm hmm. And they were they were going and I think they went to Canada for tour and he landed in Canada. And the teacher was like, where's the drum? And the left would like join the storm in Edinburgh Airport.


So, like, they had to they had to go in the pipe, entered the main drum. Or her work were pretty wacky, right, pretty well. I don't know how they fixed it. I don't. Can you buy I assume those things aren't just, like, easy to buy or are they?


I'm sure it's an odd drum part.


Yeah, but you probably anyway, so that was there was a little wacky, but um.


Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Well yeah. Oh Harry cheats on his girlfriend at one point and it's irrelevant, it never comes off again. I'm not even sure why this is their own.


And so there's a tension this. Yeah. So the they establish the tension between him and his girlfriend but then they don't take it anywhere and yeah. Because you kind of you kind of think that she's complaining that she never sees him anymore. Yeah. And which is, you know, again, a cliche, but whatever kind of works. And then it feels like when she gets shouted at by Bill, there would be a moment of her like leaving him and that would create that would create a tension between him and the coach.


And because she you know, if I was if I was doing the film or are you still seeing her for the end of the film?


I think so. That's what that's sorry. That's why I'm saying so like. Yeah, like you me. You would think that you would have them breaking up because of him cheating on her and because of how the coach treats her. And that would then create more tension between her and the coach and make him the one to run as much. But I don't think they do that unless I just missed it.


I don't think they don't. I think I think that's the thing. He cheats on her.


She's a bit suspicious. Then the coach shows her. She's a bit angry and then they're fine.


Yeah, right. This is weird. Well, I'm not really a fan necessarily of the idea of every film has to have a romance and even though that's what audiences want. And so. Yeah, but this film has a lot of moments where there's like weird stop and start romances. But the storm wash up for a bit. There's a bit with the Polish sprinter and the American as well and my. It's given a little too much focus to just be written off as like a bit of a joke, but not enough to really be a full subplot.


You know, I mean, it just kind of hanging there.


Yeah. The American also folks with a flight attendant.


And yet that is just the jokes. I feel like that's fine. It's just the Polish girl is given a bit too much. There's a couple like. To two or three full scenes devoted to her, and there's no payoff, so it just seems that we are. Yeah. I don't know, but you yeah, to see the American like senior from nursing her from afar and then like, oh no, there is that there is a payoff for this one.


Um, the. Yeah, yeah. So he's of his teammate and he's on the he's there doing the Pavol just for fun. Yeah.


But he just went down, he's just like I don't remember. Yeah. Yeah.


And then he says that she just flunked the sex test. Oh. Which means she's not a woman.


Is that right. I have I forgot about that because I was going to look it up because I absolutely no idea what that means, I I read it as a trans phobic comment, as if she's not a woman.


Yeah. It's either like a lolled build up for a transport victim. I'm sorry, but it's also a really shitty one, or at least not. Not the most. That's it. I think that's it. Yeah, but even if it was just like I, the only other possibility is that there's some weird unrest in the world. You're not allowed to have sex before the Olympics. She failed the. We should also just be a lot of build up for an unfunny joke.


So gender testing was first introduced in the Olympics in 1968, so perhaps it would have been a big new thing that they were looking to talk about.


And I feel like no. Well, just. Well, firstly, I mean, just living. It's just not a fun enough joke to dedicate so much time to. Yeah, I know. I think you're overstating how much time they dedicated to it, but I feel once again we only see her twice and the first time, just about as part of a bigger scene. And the second time is him going with her as the ending of a scene.


I don't like this whole sequence commit to. There's more time to it than just a joke, is what I'm saying. Yeah, but I think it's just it's used it's used as part of other sins. And to then lead to that joke, I don't think I think I don't think it's supposed to be like a romance or anything that's established in the film.


I think it's just it feels like it would feel like it's going to be this is what I'm saying, like it's set up in that way and there's enough time dedicated to it. It feels like it's the beginning of a subplot and then it sort of ends with that bond section. Yeah, no, I, I've got to stop.


It establishes what he's like and then shows him interacting with his teammates and like the laddish banter or whatever. I feel like that's what it is more than.


Well regardless of which was the time. Yeah. OK. Oh yeah. I'm does. Enduring the marathon, does Pavo convince Harry not to take a convincing Scottie sorry not to take the drugs? I think there's a bit where they look each other and like Pavel shakes his head and then Scotty kind of looks guilty. And I wasn't sure whether it was just a Pavulon notice or whether it's like don't do it and kind of thing. Did you notice that moment?


Vaguely, I remember your flight from first to, uh. Now, at the end of the marathon, they put two towels around them and I thought the same round as foil. That sounds like it would be a more modern thing, right, cool and well, what would you rate this film? I'm calling a stop to it now.


When Sonny wins, they play God Save the Queen was at the Australian national anthem.


I would be surprised. Because, well, because he wins, unless they're playing it, because, like, Harry's dead or something. Let me just give it its responsibility just for. Oh, no, it was God Save the Queen or 1974. Oh, that's nice. That's good. So, yeah, I like that, um. Just seems weird, me, I suppose, Australia never. How big a violent separation from the UK, but still no.


I mean, regardless, it was done in a referendum to get rid of that, so I think really popular sentiment against it.


Well, OK, I think I'm pretty much. Yeah, OK, so. Two things, and I think and then we can move on, there's a few things here and. So apparently Elton John wrote a song for it. And did you notice that or hear that?


I saw that I, I have already forgotten the song I took off after because I have forgotten it. I didn't notice it. And they used Life-Size dummies to fill the stadium for the final scene. And which is interesting because that's what actual sports are doing now at the moment.


Oh, I only watched one like Premier League football match and they just had to stand empty at four zero.


But have you seen all the controversy about that? Duncan, the people I follow on when they talk about sports very often, I mean, so so people were basically what a lot of clubs were doing was saying, and you can buy you can buy a Akoto in the stands and so send in a photo of you or if a celebrity or something, and we will put there in the stand as a person.


And people were sending in like Hitler and they're sending in that kind of thing. And there is a lot of people that were like, I remember there was some there were some like notorious paedophile. There was like spotted in the stands of of a game sometime. I can't believe you didn't see any of this.


I just I don't pay attention to these things. And yeah, that's where all my discourse. Last week, last week, the last three days has been a rather stupid four letter. So. Well, letter over to Harper. If you don't know about, tell me about it.


OK, I better go find, um.


OK, the guy that plays Sonny was an Aboriginal Australian postman who had never acted before being cast in the film, I believe it.


Cool, and then he was willing to just be. Racist did. Well, can you take the word? Yeah, so, yeah, you were saying what would you raise and what would you rate this film?


So we also at the beginning, I was kind of I knew it wasn't that good, but I was enjoying the Cockney accent and, you know, the fun of it. And I would have said it was, you know, I'm watching this on. As the film went on, I realized I probably wasn't not, say, enjoying myself very much. So I would probably say that my always is if you don't watch it or just watch any other like there's so many sports.


This is the same thing I said about the idea. But there's a lot of many sports films in this world. This one isn't particularly unique. Just watch something else. Yeah, I hybrid the only unique aspect of appeal for this film, I would say for me is that it's about running. And if you're into running, I appreciate that that is a sport which is less represented. Chariots of Fire and not seen. I was I was just about to say, yeah, you can still watch Chariots of Fire.


So good a good old animal run with the wind, which is also about running on me.


So I spoke regardless, even as a representation of running, I would say, which is the most unique thing about this film. I would say that one. OK, I actually think it did pretty well, it made me want to go out running. And it also led me to look up a bunch of records and like, interesting stuff and. I think as a presentation of like the world of running and especially a presentation of the world of running at this time in terms of the whole, like, political side and the the amateur.


Thing and all that kind of stuff, and I liked it, so I would say watch if it's on and if you I mean, if you specifically want to watch a film about this exact thing, then I would say, watch it. It's serviceable.


But I would I would verita overall watch of its own. I quite liked it overall.


I just but not enough to actively seek. I liked it for I realize this is a very weird thing to say for century an hour and a half long, but I wish it was for a little bit and I was like this now. Oh yeah.


So I, I feel like if I, if I had seen Chariots of Fire, which have not seen before, I would probably be reading it the same issue. But since I have not seen that, I think this is maybe the first running film I've seen. This explicitly about running. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think I've not seen Chariots of Fire, but I have seen Run with the Wind, which is the thing about. Yes.


I've not seen I've not I don't think I've seen. So I think from that point of view, that's why I'm reading it, that I would reach towards watch if it is on would be very cool.


So, OK, so that's a filmdom, so do you want to know, Jamie, why my notes are handwritten and I didn't have time to think about this?


You're not broken or. No, it's because I've been playing Skyline's, Jamie, and I can't stop now. I cannot stop. Oh, I can get to sleep last night because I was thinking of traffic and and how to fix traffic problems in my city. Yeah, I've been I've been I've been with every moment. I have not been playing it. I've been wanting to play it.


And it's really going on for the last few days, so, yeah, hmm, I got all the deals in the steam sale, I was like, you can say Skyline's, I bought all the DLC apart from, like, the one that was on sale. And so there's a bunch of new stuff that I've not done before that I'm working out.


And it's great, but it's also the most frustrating thing in the world. Say, I think I hate when these games require like a grand design, as it were, like one small part that's wrong with it, but you can't fix it because you're got a massive bunch of other things, you know. Yeah, always upsets me.


It's not it's not that unforgiving. And the good thing about it is you can quite easily, completely change stuff. And like, I can't remember all the there's definitely a game that's kind of similar to it that has a mode where like, well, I don't know, maybe once you play something down, that's it locked in. And if it was something like that, I would I would not be able to play it and say Skyline's very is pretty forgiving in terms of and in fact actively encourages you to move stuff and demolish stuff and upgrade stuff and change of the times and change of what's going on.


And but that's still I mean, on a grand scale, you still have to try and plan in some way because Jesus is so fucking stressful. And yeah.


And the the annoying thing is, is really fun. Um, but the stuff it's really fun is like building the city and like designing a park in it and that kind of thing, all that stuff is really fun. But then you end up fucking managing traffic for like half the time I'm playing the game or half the time playing games. I'm saying changing highway lanes and like trying to work out where people want to go and where they're coming from and all that kind of stuff.


Yeah. Yeah. So it's everything I hear about is Fireline eventually devolve into a discussion of traffic. Yeah.


I mean that is that is the sort of inevitable thing and which I suppose in real life is also the big discussion.


Well, exactly.


It needs to be, um, it absolutely needs to be like that. And I think I think I need to put more public transport in, to be honest. And I think that's really where I've gone wrong and have not really been using public transport, which means that as well as all the industrial vehicles on the road, I've got like everyone who wants to go anywhere and the highways and stuff. I've also built a national park, which is incredibly popular and busy in the middle of nowhere, which means that like everyone's going down one road to get to, it's like those two things combined are not great.


But, um, and I'm starting to. Fix it, so that's good anyway, so that's why that's why my notes are handwritten, because I was playing that up until the very last minute and it's Skrebowski, it's got its Kripalu.


Yeah, so, uh, I've been playing very much this week. I've been busy getting what? I have jobs that disgusting no animals have been living around, so I'm very lazy person by nature. Yeah, I played a game of simple with you. If you were called six whole days ago.


We did. That was my first time playing it. Yeah, I'd say that I played the second game. So I feel the thing was like grand strategy games, that you only really start enjoying it once you understand how the systems interact with each other, which isn't the point time out yet. Yeah, I don't go soon.


I mean you can play it in your own time as well as just just a little just one session that lasted three hours. Um so yeah I might give it another go and see if it clicks.


Well I'm sure we'll have another game. It yeah. It seemed kind of fun but in a. I don't know. I mean, I like to it seemed a lot simpler than similar games. Yeah.


Which I liked on one hand, but on the other hand, I was kind of I kind of like more depth. Yeah, and I'm sure it gets there when you know. Yeah, I mean, just to clarify, I don't mean simple as an easy I just mean simple as.


Yeah. And. I don't know what I mean. Yeah, I'm I'm very much in immediate gratification guy in that game, it takes ages for anything to happen, so I don't think I'm well suited for. Um, so, yeah, let's go. My only opinion well, I've been talking about. Yeah, I mean, that's the other thing is it's taking a long time. I, I think the worst thing that I take to starting out is like ridiculously hilly and that makes it so hard to like build roads and and.


Stuff like everything's on this huge fucking hill and then like there's hills within that hill and stuff, and so I feel there's another problem that got. With my suits, gowns, robes that neither you nor the viewer has seen or I can visualize it, where exactly I've been keeping on with my Ghibli marathon, I took my face slightly, so I watched the whole two films.


The week is that did you pick up the pace because I embarrassed you with my marvel? Yes. Yes, entirely too. So I watch. I pomponio and whisper. I haven't seen Pompeii before. It was a very nice film, very film. But, you know, good. A lot of people, a lot of racoons die. Then I watched Whisper of the Heart, which I liked very much when I first watched it, when I was 16.


And if I myself feeling less affinity to it now, I'm quite interesting. So a lot of stuff I like. So we go with people, some interesting testimony. Yeah, um. I'm not going to go into detail about the Marvel thing, I already I had a conversation with Ross and our friend of the podcast and about it, and we went we talked for ages about all sorts of stuff. And I'm not going to go into it. But what I will say is that after Antman, it really picks up and like Guardians of the Galaxy is pretty good.


And then you have Atman, which is probably the best one of all them. And then after that, it really picks up for the most part. And I feel like Captain Marvel and is a film that I really struggle with because. I feel like there is so much negativity about it, it's hard to see it in a positive way just because you notice you notice every single negative things you point out about it and none of the positive things. Um, and also Brie Larson is such a flake and miss I feel like she's such a misunderstood person and it's very nice.


Well, exactly. She seems nice, but I think she's messed up a few times where she just not she said things a bit wrong. And that's just like rub people the wrong way. And then there's this whole theory that, like, no one on the other cast members like her.


And I feel like with that background, it's really hard to watch the film. And I think that's just the women of America.


Yeah, no, I agree. I like I liked the film, but I found it. I felt like I had to, like, look for the stuff that I liked about it because the overall discourse is so negative in terms of what I see, if that makes sense.


Yeah. I don't know the kids and the other thing I think with Captain Marvel is that they missed out, they missed out on using the 90s more. Because I feel like a lot of the people that watch and Marvel are very familiar with the 90s and they could have really hammered it home.


As I said, I think most people watch mom will be just unfamiliar with it, but it would be interesting to watch.


Yeah, well, that's I feel like it would go from. The people who watch Marvel are probably born between like 1990 and 2005 or something like that, so it's going to be like people that grew up in it and the people that grew up immediately after it and will therefore be interested in it. And I feel like I feel like it could have.


I, I, I feel like I know your views on original soundtrack and verses music.


Oh yeah. And I kind of have grown, I kind of kind of agree with you in parts and I feel like you could have easily overdone it. And, but I also feel like they could be a couple of 19 songs in it and just at certain points, like chucked a few in there because it really doesn't I don't think it has any or maybe it has one.


Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.


I think Guardians of the Galaxy, having now watched it again, it's a fantastic soundtrack, but it does feel for some parts, especially the second one. Yeah. And there's some parts that work really well and some parts where it doesn't work so well. And I still think regardless of how it works in the film, it's a great collection of music. But I feel like they could have done that on a much smaller scale. And Captain Marvel for the 90s.


And that would have been cool, but which was a shame because I feel like there's actually it's a little harder to.


Let's start with the 19th visually and obviously there's some visual language, but not quite as well defined visually with the song.


Yeah, well, that's true, but there's there's style and stuff like I don't really, really use style. And like, she lands in a blockbuster. Sure. There's like it feels like it's rather than being a constant background, it's like something that happens.


Like she likes a blockbuster, then the security guard, it's like, oh, there's a RadioShack over there, remember those? And you step out.


It's like, remember, he sees payphones in the 90s and then that's it for the whole film. That's like the 90s done. And then you're supposed to be like, OK, from then on it could be said anytime or something like that anymore.


You can just sort of ignore the time period. But if you want to do that sort of thing, you can try and create a movie or you can just sort of and you can you can ignore the time and background points.


You can ignore the time period for like a single film. But I feel like when you're looking at this whole universe has been created. And the big thing about Marvel especially and the reason I think they've improved a lot since Ghanzi Galaxy and Antman is they started leaning into the the specifics of the character and the specifics of the time period and that kind of thing. We're like this one is a Marvel film, but it's also a heist film. And this one is a Marvel film, but it's also a space film.


And I feel like for Kate, they say that, but they're always so predominantly a Marvel film.


I don't know. I mean, Fridmann is and man is not. Either they're both. I haven't seen them, so I don't want to exaggerate the gender differences, but I think they are still very they know they are they are definitely so very much male and it's very similar.


But, yeah, that's the thing. And the other thing I realized, I said I wasn't going to go into it. Now I'm going to I feel like they should have spread Iron Man out more and have a franchise.


Yeah. You have Iron Man one for free within like the first five films or something.


And then he's just went to arm and freeze a little off a little bit, but not much. And and then it's like all new characters introduced. And the thing that really made me realize that was like there's a bit in the end, like Endgame or Infinity where he's like, oh, I've got this new nanotech and you just like press the button and it does it all. And I guess they're obviously supposed to be an inventor. And like, obviously, he's not going to stop doing that just because he's not a key part of the film.


But at the end of Iron Man two, I'm in free or something. He destroys all his suits. And then it feels like that really would have played nicely into a new man film where he has to rebuild and rework something else. But instead he just turns up in another film with a new suit and then, bam, he's got nanotech and he's just like doing all in the background.


It's just it's weird that the end of the film, the implication is supposed to be that, like, he's giving it up and he's going to reinvent himself as a more complete person who doesn't need to, as it were. And then he just then he comes straight back.


And then, of course, he does after after civil war, he does that more where he goes into the background for the most part, although then he comes back and helps him and stuff.


So it's not just enough to respond. Yeah, it's. Yeah. Spiderman and as you know, I really like Spider-Man films, I know you don't at all either, but I really liked Far from Home and I really liked homecoming.


I remember with me be apparently a lot of people don't like far from home, but I quite liked it.


Well, I think I feel I think far from I mean, it's supposed to lean into the whole Iron Man worship thing. Yeah, it does.


And I mean, Spider-Man is also really interesting to see the world post snap snap. But also post reverse snap. Yeah. And anyway, overall.


And I think there's. And there is a formula that most of them follow and which that formula becomes less as they go on, which is a good thing. And and I feel like there's a lot of flops or a lot of ones that don't hit the right note. But I think when you look when you actually sit and watch every single one of them with almost nothing else, I mean, I did watch a few other films during the period, but something else is pretty amazing to see how they brought it all together.


And yeah, and when you think about how the Russo brothers did like it and Captain America and then they went up to civil war and then he did something to our Nankin, and it's pretty incredible. So, um, but yeah, I think overall, like Marvel is just regardless of, like, the quality of the cinema or the quality of the writing or whatever you want to say, I think it is incredible to have so many films in a franchise that really work towards the one big thing.


You know, I just I feel that everything together well, I'm really grateful.


Jim, you've you've actually not you've not watched him in order ever, like, sat there and watched moment order. So how would you possibly know that?


Well, it's just, you know, Jamie, your opinions invalid here, really. I'm the one who sent in a marble microphone, so.


Yeah, well, just one is fine that many. So it's you know, it's a bit more controlled than mine just to kind of sucks on the phone. Yeah.


That's the first one I ever saw I think.


Oh, it's a weird place to start started and then Infinity War and end game is really just background noise. All these characters, it's not like, oh, there's all these well developed characters, like clashing together, like a really massive nobody. But these people are powerful here. They are in the background. Yeah, but.


I'm not saying that they all are super important in these films were brought together, but I just mean the way that the stories are brought together in the way that specific things happen at specific points, I think really works. You know, clearly you don't agree, but. You know, if you like, and I'm just I'm so sick of I'm so tired of them, I don't want to watch them. Well, I feel like now I've watched them all, I can take that box and then I can just watch new ones and become out.


I like it as a as a franchise, like if you compare it to Star Wars, where they made a trilogy without knowing what was going to happen in each one. You know, and I'm not going to get into like I hate this film, I like this film, I don't like this. But, you know, you you think about how that trilogy was made with, like, different directors and writers changing stuff between films and stuff. And then you compare it to a franchise that is 25 films with very few plot holes and characters that link together.


That's what I find depressing. Regardless of anything else. And my my voice is about to give up. OK? By everyone, I was an.