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Three or four. Here we are.


We did it finally.


I'm so embarrassed that we're doing a podcast about wellness.


I got sick as a dog.


I'm so embarrassed. Thank you. Feel you've failed? Yes.


I failed you. I feel like I'm embarrassing you.


So I don't take responsibility for what you do because you have sort of helped me live my life to the fullest, OK, into like optimal life force. And now I'm meeting you and you're sick as a dog.


I'm sick. I'm on death's door now.


We all get sick. We all get sinus infections. This is so dumb. Being sick is so dumb, but it's not their fault. They're saying.


I don't think so. I don't think it's like a you have to measure to like I have to keep myself from getting sick to make myself proclaim I'm healthy.


Yeah, as soon as I feel that I'm getting sick, I go into a deep denial and I start working and organize. I get like manic actually to try to outrun it, outrun the sickness. Has that work.


I'll show those germs. I'll show them. It's a good approach.


But isn't some of being sick psychological? I'm sure. I'm sure. Yeah, but it's also very physical and biochemical. And if you have a sinus infection, you probably need an biotics. And that's all good.


I have a full blown lzzy sinus infection. Yeah, I'm living in my house or construction. I didn't know this was a. A danger, a danger? No, I didn't know air was dangerous, but I think, like we were texting, like getting sick every now and then, it's good for your immune system. That's a challenge. Now, obviously, if you're sick every month, that's a come on. Yeah. So if you're if you're challenging your immune system and this is part of the problem, if you look at kids, right.


We don't challenge them anymore. They live in these very sterile environments. Vaccinate the hell out of them. Don't let them play outside. Right. And then their their immune system is very turned off from anything outside of themselves. And they're eight years old and they get their first exposure to germs and their immune system flips out and then they have this auto immune disease. And I mean, that's the extreme. Your kids should be playing in the sandbox, eating dirt, literally.


Yeah. Exposing themselves. Yeah. To the elements. That's all healthy.


And what is to work. Kids always allergic to peanuts.


It's such a good question. This is a new thing.


It seems very, very new. Yeah. I think part of it is because if you take an immune system which hasn't been exposed to anything and for whatever reason, I don't know, peanuts, shellfish, now it gets overwhelmed by the smallest exposure of something benign. It's very again, but it comes from not keeping kids in a very sterile environment, being afraid for them to be in outdoors, in the elements exposed to other kids. Like that's a massive problem for people.


This proves my point that bad parents are the best parents. There's some truth to that. If you go outside and play and we'll go out tomorrow, you come back when it gets dark, right? That's what my mom used to say for sure. You know, don't wash your hands. I mean, we're in a pandemic now.


Please don't count for that. But like, you know, you got to get dirty as a kid.


Got to live. Yeah. Got to get outside. Get out of the house. Your kids don't do that anymore.


How do we get more allergies if we weren't exposed to something early in life?


I think so. So if you look at how does that happen, it's I mean, I'm very like big view of this is allergies is, in a sense, the immune system saying we're scared, we're scared. We don't know what this is moren. Right.


Like, we have to flip out because we were afraid of it, whereas pollen and trees and grass are not scary things. But when you train your immune system that it has to be so in line and so sterile. Of course, if you're exposed to something that's never been exposed to, it can flip out. Let me backtrack for a second. Yeah. You introduce yourself. Sure. What do you do for a living? Dr. Conover, I talk to people, help them optimize their life.


We have doctors on the show. Yeah. So we call performance medicine because I help people not just feel well, but perform their best, which is very different than like functional medicine, alternative medicine, which I think is robotic, just helping people kind of end up doing a lot of lab testing and putting people in tons of supplements. Yeah. Which is just like the pharmaceutical model, except we've replaced pharmaceuticals with nutrients and say it's all safe and really good.


But then people end up on 28 different supplements not knowing what they're doing. Nothing and nothing gets changed. And it's kind of the the mindset of taking this for that I think is a problem.


I think that the stress of taking the random supplements I have is worse for me than not. Oh, I totally doing anything right.


Don't stress Levite and then you feel right. There's a lot of mercury in it.


And just the ginkgo biloba. If I forgot where my ginkgo like, it's like I'm so stressed out about what vitamins I should and shouldn't take that cortisol release from that is probably worse, I'm sure.


Oh, I agree with that. Like, if you don't if you don't have a game plan to them, what are you doing, what are you doing. And you can always add another. Right, because now you're you tweaked your elbow. So you need to take the glucosamine for the pain. But now you're on 16 others because. Why not? It's natural, right? Safe.


What's what should everyone be on? There's some staples.


So, yeah. Like like fish oil. Fish oil. And I say this liver oil is not fish oil. I mean, colorable comes from fish. No, but it's not traditional fish oil, which comes from things like anchovies, mackerel, sardines. OK, but I say this because we do a lot of testing with our patients, like fatty acids are always low, vitamin D, always low B vitamins tend to be low then than other fat soluble vitamins like vitamin A, vitamin K to Koku Q10.


Those are big things. Some would argue probiotics. You're you're taking those every morning.


Some I'm not personally, but. Yeah, yeah. I mean, people probably should if they're looking to cover in an efficient way, there's like four things. Vitamin D, fatty acids, probiotics would be the top of the list.


But we can get vitamin D from the sun.


Right. And you can't really I mean, you some people can, but you get it. But he can't convert inactive.


But we wear sunscreen all the time. Well, I don't think it's just sunscreen.


I think from the skin convert inactive vitamin D to active vitamin D, so that's the issue. So we measure people's levels and it should be literally the range is thirty to 100 should be greater than 70. And that's based on studies that show when you're greater than 70, you don't get cancer or things like that. Don't break your bones. That's important things. Yeah, but most people can't get there. Certainly can't get there if they don't take some supplements.


Someone listening right now.


It's not getting drafted for the NFL. Yeah, it's not an enemy that's not Joe Rogan. Like what's going to the GNC, the local grocery store. Like what are you get.


I get vitamin D D you take but every day by mehndi three D three. What's the three. What, what's there one chemical.


Now there is vitamin D too. Know it's just codenames these things. That's a good question.


I certainly, I certainly don't know but but vitamin D three take five to ten thousand international units a day. Think it was food. Get fish oil. And what does it do.


Vitamin D I to ask some really dumb question.


It's not dumb, it's good. It's, there's a lot of things helps the immune system kind of keeps the immune system kind of consistently running, helps a lot with hormones. It helps obviously with bone structure. But I think most of it's the immune system.


Three is a no brainer. That's easy. Got to do it. Yep. Got it. Yeah. What else. Fish oil and flaxseed oil. Fish or flaxseed or krill oil, depending on how you grill oil.


Because why am I hearing that some fish oils have mercury in them. Because again. No, no, no. I mean if you look at just like people eating lots of fish, so they say if you eat, if you want to do it the best way, the ideal way is eat fish from different water sources, like rotate it buried up, because if you're eating the same fish from the same water source, you're going to tend to collect what's in that same water source, which in a lot of water sources are mercury.


So because water sources have mercury in them because of the well, lots of things, there's a lot of pollution.


And so our fish are full of mercury.


Now, some I mean, there's a good website. It's like a member like got milk. It's you can go that got mercury again. Oh really? Yeah, it got mercury again. You can look at the different mercury content of the most common fish that people eat like swordfish I think is the highest yet. Right. Right. Swordfish. Right. Don't eat swordfish, right. That's right. Yeah. But like salmon's great like so it depends on.


So eat different fish from different food water sources to avoid the constant mercury. Deakes. Yeah.


Salmon oil or fish or salmon oil.


That's specific but. Most fish oil, if you look at it from mackerel anchovies, have you seen the Sardis sardines, those things that some grocery stores have, that's like a it's like fish oil, but it's like fruity. It's like it's like a very it's like a candy.


Yeah. Well, I mean, that's like the whole vitamin gummy thing. I want my fish oil to taste like Skittles. Right. Well, everyone does. It's like a drinkable fish oil.


So I think with a lot of these supplements are just trying to be creative with how do people get it? And I think the trouble is they put a lot of artificial stuff in sugar. It's probably counteracts.


Oh, shit. Should we like what we do? Like The Flintstones?


I love God. I used to I was like, these are vitamins, right? It's Halloween candy. Right.


So there's something for that. Yeah. Yeah. OK, D3 three fish oil or flaxseed oil.


If you don't want if you don't want fish sauce like burping up warf. Yeah.


So one trick with that, just put them in the freezer and they'll just be more slowly digested. You won't burp it up.


Yeah. Yeah we do the ritual vitamins, they're like then they have a little mint tab on them. So you don't like burping up.


Yeah. So vitamin D so fatty acids would be fish or flaxseed or krill oil and probably the best is to rotate them, you know, like every three months or so switch so you don't overexpose yourself to the same stuff just every three months.


Which your fish. Yeah.


Well yeah. Just to keep it simple cause we don't overexpose ourselves. That's why I like people even with vitamins. Don't take them every day, take the weekends off, give yourself a break.


Whoa. Which which helps people anyway because people as we're talking about get sick of taking the same stuff all the time. So we put breaks in there. People are like, OK, I can handle that. But more importantly there then toning down what they expose themselves to all the time. Yeah, I mean, I I forgot to take them, so there's some natural attrition where people go on vacation or go just don't take them, so then you build a break into it.


So. And what does the break do?


Well, just I mean, my thought is anything you expose yourself to consistently every time you render it less potent. Anything.


Yeah. So your body gets used. We're super adopters and females. You're super, super adopters. So you adapt very quickly to your immediate environment. So if you're always taking the same stuff, always in the same foods, always thinking the same thoughts, always working out the same. I know. Always work.


Yeah. You're you're not going to make progress.


So super adapters humans.


We're the only species that can live anywhere on the planet. I literally I remember I was doing a. Stand up outside for cars. Right, we were all doing stand up inside for human beings and and then it was like, where do we stand for cars is so weird. Everyone's in their car and they're honking instead of laughing. It is a nightmare.


The weirdest part of it is that five minutes in felt totally normal.


That's how fast it felt. Fine. Yeah. You acclimate. Acclimate.


We acclimates. What we're able to normalize the news. What we see. I mean everything. Yeah. It's like a baby murdered. I'm like next Skrull, no matter what, I have been able to just like, neutralize so quickly. It really scares me.


Yeah, but if you take it back then to things like food and people in the same foods every day, they're walking or running on the treadmill for 30 minutes every day, like that's not doing them any good, taking the same supplements every day, same thought patterns every day. You don't go anywhere. You don't challenge yourself. The idea is to be dynamic and change, challenge, challenge, surprise, consistent inconsistencies. Whoa.


Because I feel like I feel like so much of mental and physical. Well, this has been about like routine and consistency and do it every day.


But I think I think that's a practice to get into. Then you get to that place where you're even keel and you're there and then you got to change it up again while because then you'll just adjust your make. That's your new baseline. Right. And you don't know how high you could really go. Right. Right. Like you've reached here the plateau. And then you're like, well, what about up here? Well, the only way to get there is to challenge.


And it's sometimes many times it's uncomfortable and it's but that's the growth.


What's the biggest mistake everyone's making? That's a good question.


I know there are probably a lot like like soymilk healthy.


So Sois is not healthy. So I don't think that's the biggest mistake. But I was not healthy.


But why? Like I guess. I think so. Here's what I think. If I one thing I think is that people place way too much emphasis on different types of diets and they say like, oh, I'm going to be paleo.


He took me to South Beach, vegetarian, big carnivore.


And I think the reality is, is what you think about the food matters more than what the food is, you know.


And there was a study, I tell this a lot, but there's a study I messed up the details which prove that they took a group of Thai women, a group of Swedish women. Right. First part of study that they had the same nutritional content the food gave the Thai women traditional Thai food switched from traditional Swedish food aid to food. Then after they drew their blood and looked at certain nutritional markers, second part of study, they flipped it.


So the Swedish women eat Thai food. Thai women in Swedish food, something drew their blood. Third parties study. They pureed the food so it didn't even look like food anymore. All three parts. The study had different nutritional content from the blood. It's the exact same food. The highest was when traditional. The first part when the Thai women, eight traditional Thai food and the Swedish women a traditional Chinese. And the thought is what you know, they're more comfortable and familiar with that.


So they get more out of it, literally. So what you think about your food is way more important than what the food is. So I tell people I'd rather you love McDonald's than hate the kale salad. Right. Blowing my mind, but it's true, and that's applies to everything in your life, like we were talking before about the placebo effect and like what you think about it is really going to matter, help the outcome. And the inverse is true as well.


Don't hate fuck your food. No, because also I remember I was trying, so I think everyone's trying so hard to be healthy and the amount of stress that you release trying to be healthy.


I remember I was like in an airport touring and it was like Sbarro Pizza Taco about your choices.


And I was like, none of this is healthy. And it was like. I remember talking to this kind of amazing woman that was helping me with like which was my first step to meeting you, and she was like the stressing out over eating. The thing is so much worse than just eating just half the piece of pizza. Yeah. Yeah, there's a good book by a sociologist from Stanford called Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers. Yes, yes. It's a lot of people read kind of one of the points is that animals in the wild don't think about the food they're eating.


Yeah, they don't have guilt. They're eating whatever they want. They move on to the next thing, like we're the only people who have guilt over everything we eat, like we beat ourselves up like I'm a bad person. So I had that cookie.


We are we are at war with what we eat. It's like I just have to eat this piece of cake.


I'm to work out for two hours tomorrow just fucking because I hate myself. What is this cheat day thing? Well, I think today, if you're on a very restrictive diet or extreme diet is necessary to safety valve. Yeah, because if you don't, I think what happens is like Quito's can be if you're really restrictive, Kita, that's going be a challenge for you to maintain all the time, because you want carbohydrates, you want pizza like we all do.


And so if you don't give yourself to today, you're going to be thinking about that all the time, I think. Right. So you give yourself a cheat day. It's like, OK, it's a safety valve. I can have some pizza and it's fine as part of my plan.


Uh huh, yeah. But it also going back that changing it up, I think is good, but I, I don't I've as you know, I have a history with, like eating disorders and I have such a, you know, acrimonious relationship with food in my past.


Like, I don't want to not eat. Like, I don't want to have an adversarial, adversarial relationship with food like bread.


Can I bread if you want it. Thank you. I mean, why why is Brad like I'm not giving up Brad, I don't. I truly don't. Oh, I agree. That's why this whole push and like that all these carbs are bad. No, they're not. I mean, they're just not.


We think they're bad, but they're good people the way it's made in America and. Sure. And the versus the way it's made, there's more reaction.


Yeah. That goes back to probably some of what we talked about initially with how we're raising kids and keeping things sterile. And yeah, it's all tied in. But what you think about whatever you're doing is certainly going to tie in more. It's going to be the most immediate thing. So if you come at it like I shouldn't have said, I'm a bad person, of course, the bread is not going to be good for you. How could it be why would you want to eat in that way?


So, so much of your work is about the emotion, like the neurochemicals that are released around the mindset of the mindset of practicing, of the mindset of abundance.


Yeah, explain that as well. Most people, you know, it's fear based, right? Like we were just fearful creatures, like everything we do, we have to make sure it's OK as opposed to being comforted. Like everything I do is always going to be good. So I think when I see people, one of the first questions I'm trying to understand is do they do they and their lens of the world feel like the world is safe or not safe?


Most people feel like it's unsafe. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. So the decisions that they make, whether it's what they're going to work out, what they're going to wear, thoughts, they think food come back to that question. So what then? Why they're playing defense then what? Well, you got to undo that. You've got to give them some things to show them that, like it's OK to try ketamine and add the peptides, whatever it is that you may be uncomfortable, get out of your comfort zone and oh, my goodness, you felt, you know, 30, you know, 30 percent better and like, oh, I can feel better, OK?


I can start to trust this a little bit more. OK, so let's talk about it. Yeah.


So you do a ketamine, oxytocin spray.


Nasal spray. Nasal spray. Yes. Which I cannot use right now because of my sinus infection.


Right. So we started doing we do a lot of intravenous need for you to explain what Nadja's everyone's heard about it on rogard.


I know. But so, so named is a B three vitamin derivative. It's a chemical cousin of niacin. The vitamin E been in use since really the 1930s where they found it was helpful for addiction, actually. And actually it turns off cravings better than probably any substance turns off cravings. Yeah. So they called it the Predator syndrome. When people whether it's alcohol or opiates, they can't get their stuff to become a predator.


They need it now. And they found the to turn that off.


So it's been really helpful in addiction treatment. That's where it kind of grew up, ignored by mainstream medicine. Conventional medicine resurfaced in the 90s where they're doing intravenous Nedd for addiction and people came from all over. In 2005, a gentleman from the states had a pain medicine addiction, traveled to Mexico, got the protocol, changed his life. At that time. There's only one injectable in it from South Africa. He purchased the distribution rights, which he still owns, and then opened a clinic in Atlanta called Executer.


All they did was addiction work. Well, I've been doing intravenous nutrients for a long time, longer than most. And I got to know him with referring patients. And at some point I don't remember when he came to me and said he needed help with an ad because more and more people were doing it. They don't know how to do it. He wasn't a doctor. He needed someone to help. So we took it on and kind of reshaped to it a lot of testing with it.


And so we've overseen more energy driven than probably anywhere else in the world, like we do a lot of energy. What does it do to your cells?


So I think it's like cellular fitness. Yeah, like literally. So the mitochondria people are familiar with let's be dorks. Yeah. Yeah.


So these little dork. Yeah. These are the batteries of the cells, OK.


And so because they're the batteries and by the way, there's not just one person, there's potentially thousands per every cell of these batteries that in the very simplistic form, take the fuel that you eat, carbs, protein, fat, and turn it into ATP energy, ATP, the like.


I remember that high school in Tennessee wasn't listening. Yeah, I should have listened.


But anything, anything you want to do in your life, you need energy. Yes. Think a thought. Move a finger. Because I just.


I mean. You guys know me like I'm such a workaholic, like I was, I just have been tired for so long, like Delirio, like before I started working with you, I was like, deliriously tired for so long, but also couldn't sleep. And I was in like a manic state of, like, not being able to sleep, but always being exhausted.


And I just felt like I was wasting my life, like I just wasn't optimal. Yeah.


You know, and I just felt like I was in this, like, haze that I would go to doctors. They would say, I have adrenal fatigue.


They say I had, you know, is this depression? Is that like is it being a woman? Is it my moods and my PMS saying, like, there's just so much it's so overwhelming, like and I run myself really hard and or my quality of sleep is not good enough.


So it's like it's hard to just like sort of separate and delineate every sort of things.


I don't think. But I think that's almost too much pressure because I think for all of us, we have different dials that we work on. Right. It's not always going to be consistent. We're never going to get it perfect. Right. It's a work in progress. I mean, there's some funky things I would say, and it's one of those key things. It's foundational.


So how can people access NZD like so most people are not going to be able to do Ive's. You know, it's not accessible. It can be too expensive because there's a cost society and people aren't going to choose that. But that's the gold standard. Like that's what we find is really what do you think of the future, that this will be like a part of like it'll be covered by health insurance and we'll be like, never?


No, I don't think so. It won't be like Advil at some point.


I don't think so. I think in part because, you know, there's that tie in with the pharmaceutical companies and the insurance companies in that whole paradigm of conventional medicine. They don't want us to get better. There's not a wellness component.


I remember years ago I used to do a lot more primary care and I remember you you had to submit these codes for insurance and they wouldn't pay to talk to someone about smoking cessation. Right. They wouldn't pay you forty five dollars. But then I had a patient had open heart surgery and that was three hundred thousand dollars and they'd be happy to pay that. So how does that work? It's really dark, so I don't think so, but I think so.


But that's a common question is like, well then most people can't afford it. I think most people can. I think it's it's a series of choices you make in your life. Right. If you place value on really wellness and optimizing your health and you will understand that it's time, energy and money. Yeah. And that's hard and that people don't want to admit it. And we're materialistic society. So we'll go and spend a lot of money on our shoes.


Yes. Yes. But we would never do that for ourselves. And that's the big question. Why not.


But is it available in pill for like so people there's these energy precursors, different brands where they're using different molecules, ones and are ones and and I think they're OK. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, but I don't think they're what we see with intravenous NZD or we'll use it subcutaneous just like peptide shots.


Yes. Well, it's everyone's asking, you know, we want to know you can do it sublingual.


Let's sublingual mean under the tongue. So there's different ways to get energy into one system.


We made these lollipops, these lollipops that are my dad's gum we're making.


And the only reason I'm alive, you guys just FYI, is my Dr. Frankenstein.


So we're big proponents of using the sauce, which is said to raise your energy levels. And then there's just so much research from the the sickness side, like cancer, heart disease, neurodegenerative, going back to those mitochondria being faulty as we live and stress out our bodies and kind of repairing those. And then on the wellness side, anti aging anti-diabetes all goes back to that same mitochondria. So they're a big deal. Yeah. And so energy is a huge deal because that's foundation of how you get those mitochondria working their best.


I know it's the new year, and I know that means that everyone's trying to do their best, to eat better, to be better. That's how you start New Year's. We just want to eat better at the beginning of all the New Years. And that sounds good in theory.


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Yeah, peptides are really neat.


What is what are they? So peptides. I keep recommending to people like I don't know what they are.


So peptides. You know, I think I'm a doctor. Right.


I know way more about all this and I'm just letting you pontificate.


Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, please continue. So peptides are chains of amino acids chains. What's in the Middle East, amino acids, what we think of as like the building blocks of life. So things like what's left. So they go into things making bones and ligaments, tendons and neurotransmitters and the solid structures.


They're important shit. They're very important. And so what a peptide is, is you taking those amino acids are all natural, putting them into novel combinations to do certain things we want them to do. And OK, so they kind of grew up in the CROSSFIRE community. The competitive cross fitters are looking for an edge and they're kind of like modern day anabolic steroids because they work really well. But they're better than the steroids because they don't really cause the side effects.


And that was one group that's growth hormone releasing peptides. So people may be familiar things like I am around Summerell and HRP sixth brain is just.


Yeah. My eyes glazing over. Yeah. Well, who names these things?


Yeah, it's a good question.


I'm like obsessed with like the meeting where they're like I said, Prahlad, I submit drugs to trade not that's a Ravelli rolls off the tongue.


Like who. Like it's a great question. The naming is so rude. It's, it makes it hard to embrace.


It's really just it's such a fuck. You like doctors are such I don't think.


Well, who is a pharmaceutical people. Yeah. Some of these psychobilly likes to travel like that.


Yeah. Why. Probably something with Google. Like sleeping. Why do you hate dyslexic people so much?


You know, it's a great question. I don't have that answer. It's just it's to make us feel stupid probably when they're like, do you solve your meds? What are you what do you on DEXA try lab ventrilo. Yeah. With a Y in the middle. Right for no reason. X there's an X next to a Z. Right.


Right now. What world in their world. And you know, I'm, it's a pain killer. You know, I'm high. I can't read anyway.


I already can't read normal words. Yeah. Sorry. Good point. You Jenko my rant.


Yeah I there's a really pisses me off. OK, I don't have a good answer.


I really can't comment really what to do. I'm really where it's because I have so many dogs and on meds and they're all just like weird transmat.


A fellow Milutin KBOO Floren.


Yeah. Like flying. I digress. Yeah, peptides, so the chains of amino acids put into an injectable form be injected subcutaneously under the skin, really small needle and then do certain things. So there's peptides for fitness, peptides for the nervous system, peptides for the immune system, codes for skin.


And they all kind of work together to lead to amazing skin. So dobe. Yeah, very, very safe.


That's the best part about peptides because a lot of people are taking HGH for a while. That's no sure. Because it makes your I'm a doctor. It makes your pituitary gland stop producing testosterone on its own.


OK, right. Not really.


You know, damn it, WebMD failed me again. But people overdo growth hormone. We still use growth hormone. I think it has its place. Yeah. Yeah. People have an acute injury. There's nothing like growth hormone.


It's cortisone shots. Are those bad? Depends. I don't think anything is always bad. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you've got some employment, if you got terrible poison ivy. Yeah. Like that'll be a godsend.


Yeah. Because I was doing cortisone shots in cystic zits for a while. Oh yeah. And it's like it's not good for your skin.


Well then you get depressions and. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean everything is a trade off. Yeah. So just how bad do you need it. Right. Versus what it's going to do for you. Right. Yeah. So I don't I think there's a time and place for cortisone shots.


So what are the other major mistakes we're making every day. The way we're sleeping, the quality of sleep.


Yeah, I think sleep is a big deal. I think I think the challenge was sleep is that people don't realize like this taps into the hormone cortisol, which is not cortisol, but it's the natural one within us that our adrenal glands make. When they said you had adrenal fatigue, they're saying you're not keeping up with how you produce cortisol or how you respond to stress. And that's a really big deal. I don't think people understand. Cortisol is like the sun rises in the morning, sets in the evening.


And when you put the kids down or you're, you know, quiet for a little bit at night and then all of a sudden you're watching TV or on your phone for two hours or you at ten o'clock want to go work out. You're asking everybody to put up a lot more cortisol. It's not supposed to do it then. So we're changing that. And so now you have more cortisol in your world than you should in that blunts the release of growth hormone, testosterone, melatonin, so you can't recover at night.


So I think cortisol is a daytime thing. Be catabolic during the day. Anabolic antibiotics, healing, mending, repair, rejuvenation starting at eight p.m..


No working out. Well, we go out, we go to dinner, we go to parties. I know. So we should be dorks.


Well, I designed it. We're really designed to go to bed when the sun goes down a hundred percent.


But this is why I think people adapt. We're supertax. We adapt to this new norm. And I think it's fine for the first couple of decades of life. So people in their twenties and thirties kind of hang out, do fine, and people hit 40s, 50s. Things start to fall apart. Yeah, I'd argue that's because we've lost that disconnect with cortisol. That's that big of a deal. We can't do it anymore. And so we start feeling badly.


But should you when you're in your twenties, like go out at five and come home at ten?


I mean, I think if you're living by the rhythm of cortisol. Yes, yeah. And part of it's the problem living in a normal digital technology based world, I'm not going to say don't use your phone at 10:00 at night like that's stupid. Yeah. Or don't go out to eat or don't go out. No one's going to do that. But if you can have that general premise, I think it's very helpful.


Oh, yeah. But that's part of the problem. And we've we're disconnected from the natural elements going back to what we talked about. Kids are sitting in their home playing video games.


Yeah, that's the new norm grounding. Is that anything?


And the placebo effect. And I think it's more of, you know, you can never isolate and say, oh, it's because you put your bare feet on the ground, but you're also outside. Yeah. To get air, you've made the choice that it's healthy to be outside, that there's a lot that goes into that versus, oh, you put your feet on the ground. I dated an anesthesiologist once because I make good choices. And he told me, is this true or false?


That part of why smoking is so relaxing is you're taking like deep inhale. It could be standing outside.


I mean, I think also it's like if you take a smoke break, it's like you're allowed to have a five minute break. Yeah. Yeah.


But if you just said I need a break, people are like, why do you need a break. Yeah. Keep yeah but it's OK to take five minutes to smoke.


What is the standing desk yoga ball sitting like.


Do we need to be standing at our desks. Are we sitting too much. Probably sitting too much. So it makes sense. Yeah I think it could be really if you just think about like just a good way to think about what do people used to do when you didn't have all this technology? Yeah, most of what they did for access was walking like ninety five percent of it was a great exercise. Every now and then they had to run really fast.


Yeah. Every now and then they had to lift something heavy. Yeah. They need a variety of diet pills based on the seasons based was available on a bed with the sun. I mean, those are all good things to live by. And then you kind of filter those things into your world. It's always going to be better than all this technology.


But it's like it's like to me, it's like when I go to these offices now and everyone's standing there standing desk.


Yeah, it's weird. Yeah. It's not like a game changer. No. It goes back to if you really thought that that's a game changer for you. Maybe so, but I'd say most people don't. The reason they're doing is because Joe Schmo next to them is doing it. They feel like I got to keep up with him.


Yeah, we're all just owning it in.


Yeah, they're not owning that decision, like, oh, I really want to stand because it's good for me. Another thing everyone else is doing.


I might as well. That's the problem. That's like a very old, like, tribal instinct of like to fit in with the tribe, and I think that's probably best if you doing what the herd is doing. Yeah.


Probably not going to have the most success in life because, I mean, you can sit and work at your computer, just get up and go for a walk every couple hours.




Whatever feels right in terms of exercising the surprise in your body thing like that's that's such a so mind blowing to me because I went to a chiropractor a couple of years ago and I was doing soul spinning class spinning class and he was like, you made a joke looking back, sort of inappropriate.


He was like, yeah, he's like, yeah, I'm going to buy my vacation house also.


So cycle injuries because he was just like, your body's not meant to do the same thing over and over and over.


Yeah. I mean, I have a number of very professional level cyclist patients and they'll be the first to tell you that they're screwed up mechanically. Oh, it's hard for them.


So if you're committed to working out and you don't do the same thing every time.


Correct? I think that's a really good rule of thumb because. Well, there's all this because you adapt to it. So if you're the easiest example is walking on the treadmill, right. Because people used to do that forever, they'd run on the treadmill for 30 minutes and say, great, I'm healthier exercise. You're not, though, because you're not really challenging yourself. Right? You're challenging yourself at first going, but then you're going to be at that plateau.


Yeah. How does that challenge your mindset of it? How is it a challenge? It doesn't challenge any.


Using the same must never be easy. Is that fair to say. Yeah, I think that's probably fair. Should be easy. Yeah. It's Crossfade good.


I mean I think it's OK. The trouble with Cross is they do these different lifts and moves which there's a lot of back injuries. A little psychotic. Yeah, a lot of back injuries. There tend to be very gung ho, very competitive. And so then they push themselves to compete, injure themselves. And I don't know. We're in twenty, twenty one and we are still talking about manscape, OK, just because you made it through twenty twenty doesn't mean that your pubic region can be an apocalyptic wasteland.


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I want to go back to the other vitamin vitamin D, fish oil, some kind of krill oil or flaxseed oil. Right. What's the other half to have it every day?


I mean, I would say probiotics is a big choice.


OK, but probiotics, the side I'm hearing some of them don't absorb it in pill form. And you have to be live and they have to be refrigerated, which was there's some caveats.


Yeah. So their live cells, so you need them refrigerated.


So it has to be when you go to the grocery store and the ones that are in the fridge that are like cold look like yogurt. Correct.


Pills are like now you can take pills but yeah, you can take pills literally.


They'll be like a one billion probiotics. So it's a good starting level is twenty five billion. OK, that's about minimal and it's going to keep in there. It does. And you can, they can make some like very thin capsule things that dissolve.


That's not the pills are not a scam. No. I think powder is better powdered probiotics. OK, that goes in like a drink can go and drink bottled water, put it in yogurt, something to eat it. So expiration date on the bottle to live cells. Yes. Refrigerated every day. And then we're Monday through Friday or something. Twenty five billion starts and they're great in terms of colony forming units, not milligrams. So curfews. Yeah.


And then don't take them too much too quickly or get bloating, you know, mess up your stomach because what it does is it it repopulates your gut with healthy bacteria because why is there not enough healthy bacteria in our guts.


Well what people don't realize too is actually there's more foreign DNA in our bodies than human DNA. Did you know that? Yes, know, started crying. Yeah. Our ancestors were raped. No, it means the bacteria in our gut. There's more of that than than there literally human DNA. So the question becomes, who's colonising here? It's so gross. Yeah, it's weird to think about. But we also have bugs in our eyelashes, right?




Maybe some of us have mites in our eyebrows. OK, yeah. Let's just skip the gross though.


So because back to probiotics, because we're to have to take these live cultures healthy bacteria, because we are exposed to things that stress our guts out. Right, like eating the wrong foods, taking antibiotics, taking steroids, wears down the gut like, yeah, changes the gut microbiota, right? Yeah. And so we have imbalance and then we have imbalance because 80 percent of the immune system lives in the gut and it's a whole cascade of events.


Got it. Yeah. Just take probiotics. We'll take them with those caveats.


Yeah. Yeah. Jesus, it's a great thing, OK, probiotics are yes, yes, vitamin D, three fatty acids, oil and I would put in Koku 10 because I think it's such a cute coenzyme. Q10, what is it? It's a fat soluble antioxidant, maybe the most powerful antioxidants, free radicals.


There you go. Is that right? Yeah. Dr.. For what it is, you could leave that.


OK, so why? Why? I know why. I just feel that people are taking so much shit like the state and everyone's taking it. I've got to take this like here's why.


Here's the simplistic way we are water-soluble organisms living in a fat cyber world. OK, yes. So it's the job of our liver to take the stuff we're exposed to. Like, let's keep it really simple. Pesticides, herbicides, toxicities, environment. Right. And change them from this fat soluble thing to a water soluble thing so we can excrete it or get rid of it. Right when we do that. That's two phases of liver detoxification, maybe a phase one.


Phase two, when we do that, we actually phase one makes it worse for us. That's where you produce that free radical right. And then phase two, go back to those amino acids. You add the amino acids, things like glue to on assigning different amino acids. That then the analogy I use is phase one is you take the trash, put in a trash bag, put on the side of the road, right phase to the trash trucks, come to pick it up.


Right. Unfortunately, we are way behind most people. We have way too much trash on the sidewalks. We don't have enough trash trucks. So that's that's a free radical sitting there.


And there's very few things in nature that make us have more trash trucks, independent, making more trash on the side of the road. So things like this is where you colorful fruits and vegetables. The orange is the yellow is the reds, the purples help phase to match a green tea helps us make more trash trucks. And so then we can excrete the bad stuff computer can, which is fermented real. Yeah, I mean, we need more ferment.


Is it good? Is it like. I think so. I think more fermented foods. I mean, if you look at traditional cultures who tend to eat more fermented foods, they have a healthier pickles and kraut crowd and then we should all be in group.


Yeah. I mean, I don't like if you like it. Yeah. If you don't like it. Like I don't eat it because I don't like it. But kombucha kiffer. Right. There's other fermented foods ferment. It's a good thing.


Fermented has good bacteria. Correct. Yeah.


Pickles, pickles, kiffer kombucha sauerkraut roadkill.


Yeah. Something that is really fascinating about you is that when we started talking I'm a. Chronic overshare, everybody knows us, but we started like we're talking about like medical stuff, and I started going into my like Ayman al Anon and I grew up in a dysfunctional home and I am addicted to adrenaline and and like, you got it all right away.


And it's for me. I feel like I feel like there's this. Sort of deeply like bifurcated like a psychiatrist, and there's doctors, like there's physical health and there's mental health.


There are two separate things. I think that's how it's set up. You're the first person I've ever talked to that incorporates both.


Yeah. As I think I think for me, where I have experienced the most, where I've been most valuable and I've had to learn along the way, is to help people with the mindset stuff. Big time incorporating that to the physical stuff that has to go hand in hand. And I think, you know, we set it up, there's cardiologist's for your heart and neurologist's for your brain. And but that's not how we work.


Everything affects everything. Yeah. Like, how could it not be? And so it's really doesn't. That's why a lot of pharmaceuticals and we're oh, just take this for your cholesterol or just take this for your mood.


It's OK to get that divorce. Right. It's like it's like that. That's what I kept.


I was like before I moved, you know, where I live now.


And I was in bad. It's like I need to be on it and depressed. And I did this and it's like I just need to break up with that guy.


Actually, you know, I think some of that goes back to that ownership of, you know, just our decisions. Yeah. Like we're going to make bad decisions and that's OK. And then again, are those decisions made out of fear and man from a place of abundance? Like, that's a big, big thing, I think, for people that they don't understand.


The train where we train people for fear, we train people. And in that fear based system is the health care system, which is disease based, which is if you don't take this medicine, you're not healthy. And think about that, like even though it has 45 side effects.


Yeah, like antidepressants, it's a literally a coin toss if it'll work for someone, literally.


But the placebo effect is powerful because I was not I I am on Prozac.


I think I'm to go off it soon, but I never thought I was depressed. Like that's just not like I'm the I was like I manic. I have too much energy. Yeah. Like I can't get out of bed. I'm like I can't go to bed, you know. Right.


I'm like a spaz and but I do have this thing that after like ten years and Allerton and like doing the mental work and doing MDR eye movement reprogramming a desensitization and hypnosis is like doing all of that.


I sat down with psychiatrist, I was like after I leave a conversation with someone I'll. Replay it in my head and beat myself up and like it happened earlier, we were talking downstairs, the kitchen, like we'll be talking and I'll just like you. I'll just start to kind of like a short circuit and beat myself up.


It's like perfectionism.


It's like paralyzing, like self sabotage. Yeah, it's like paralyzing perfectionism of like I should have said that that was stupid.


That was dumb.


Like you're an idiot, which I think is an important you know, I'm I'm very pro. Idiosyncracies, character defects, we call them in 12 step programs, I like to call them superpowers, like a lot of these like things we pathologies are really useful based on, like how you Alkimos them or like how you spin it to benefit you.


You're being a perfectionist, being, you know, quote unquote, OCD, being like super detail oriented, like it's why I think I'm good at standup and why I've been able to do what I do, you know.


But what it starts to become a liability. And when it stops being like a productive tool, it starts being something that actually hurts you. Like it's a you know, it's taking me a long time to realize, like, you know, I don't think I want to fix out about myself because it actually benefits me in a lot of ways. But talking to you like you're the first doctor that ever, like, integrated talking about like childhood trauma and growing up around, you know, borderline personality disorder and what that does to the.


Neurochemicals like this is a very real thing, because I think that's how we make true progress, we've got to be really authentic. And so a lot of doctors, most doctors, they are trained to think about the next drug, right?


Right. Yeah.


And they stop thinking. It's going on between the surgery. Yeah, like I said, family medicine training for me is about relationships. Like I really am interested in getting to know my patients, like that's what it's about. And if I don't get to know them. And so I used to have this insurance based practice where I'd see patients every seven minutes. It's the only way I can keep up. Yeah. And I couldn't do it anymore because I'm not valuable like that.


Yeah. I'm not going to help people. I'm just going to be part of the same system that gives them 16 different medicine files, lab orders and see them every three months. That sucks. What's the biggest problem with our medical system? Hmm, that's a good question. I mean, it's so, so fear based, so fear based, you know, scares people that if they don't take this medicine and I'm not against this, I write prescriptions.


I think there's a time and a place. It's not set up for wellness.


We're focused so much, a bandaid set up Band-Aid. Most of it's a Band-Aid. Yeah. Stop the bleeding. Yeah. Which is OK if you need if you have strep throat, you have a sinus infection with antibiotics. Yeah. Great. Yeah. Awesome. But if you really want to help someone who's got diabetes or heart disease or cancer or dementia like these medicines aren't doing it and then they don't give any credit to your thought process what you're eating, working out, you know, quality of life.


Like, I remember this patient, she developed cancer.


She was older and her grandson used to take her to the oncologist and she got worse and worse, not never the type of cancer. One day she came in just for follow up. She's in a wheelchair. And I was like, well, how's it going? And Greenson said, not not good. The chemotherapy is not working. I said, well, what's what are the oncologists say? Oh, more chemotherapy.


It's like, oh, yeah. Like that's where we are. There's a lot of that going on, and you'll talk to people who are diagnosed with cancer and they say to their doctor, hey, what about what I'm eating and nutrition? Oh, that doesn't matter.


Yeah, how does that not matter?


Also, to me, the stress of going to a doctor is probably worse for you than whatever you have, unless it's like cancer or something.


So it's like when I have a cold and I'm like, I could go to the doctor like others to go out of the way for two hours and my insurance and I'm not up to the ladies get it wrong.


And then it's going to cost money. And then I have to go wait in line at the Rite Aid. It's like I'd rather to be like when I get sick, I'd like I'd rather just kind of ride it out than go through the rigmarole of our medical system, giving me some pill that's probably going to like I mean, I'm on antibiotics now, as you guys can tell. I'm not like operating on like hitting on all cylinders I like.


I'm going to deal with the side effects. It's just like it's so frustrating and probably but I'd say most people don't think like you and they run to the doctor to get the medicine right because they don't really want to think of other things. They'll be too hard for them.


They don't want to own it. Sugar. I think sugar's fine, I mean, it's all about dosage with that, right? Yeah, I mean, this whole thing that can't touch sugar. Yeah, really, it's wild.


And is it just like we need some kind of control, sense of control or sense of. You know, a positive contribution to our future self, like I don't eat sugar, that's my thing. I've met many people who say that, you know, yeah, it's like you won a medal for that. Like, yeah, yeah. Like it. Just like a gold star. It's like it's self depriving. Yeah. Sort of like I don't drink caffeine.


I don't need any sugar, no glutens like and caffeine is great. Everything's awesome. Cest. Yeah. Alcohol I think goes back to dose. Yeah. Yeah. I think alcohol is fine in small moderation.


Why are people like red wine is like good for you in moderation.


Yeah for sure. What is it like. Is it the wine that's good for you. The fact that you're relaxing.


It's a good, good question. Yes. Yeah it's a really good question. I would say a lot. It's because you're relaxed. Yeah.


This is what you're doing to your cortisol and we're like wine is a couple of glasses of wine. A week is good for you. Yeah. Because you're chilling, right. You're probably hanging out with somebody. You're making eye contact with that. But you're and that's great I think.


Yeah. Like you come home, you look forward to the ceremony of having a drink and that's OK. Yes. And that's OK. Well, the ritual and you're relaxed. You can regroup. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Problem is when people go and they get blitzed and.


Yeah, not great. No, that's not ideal.


No, but are there certain alcohols that are just like better clear liquor select Kmetko Gin. Yeah, that's the best. Yeah. Wine, beer. Not so good because of the sugar but.


Yeah. Yeah. Red ones better than we would. Red ones better.


I get migraines I used to as well. Really. And and fix that one.


Yeah. So migraines are Ibbs. I'm going to get a migraine. Talk about how angry I am about the lack of research on migraines because I feel like because it's so predominantly female, there's just so little research on it. Like I remember going on. That's my brand. Probably true. I remember going to my doctor. I used to get such bad migraines I'd have to just go to the E.R. and I didn't have health insurance at the time and I just have to get morphine.


I was on a list. I was like a like a drug. Drug addicts will go into the E.R., pretend they have migraines to get a test for to get morphine. Exactly. So they check a list. And my name was on a list and I never I would they were so bad the left side of both of my eyeballs would I lose vision and I lose complicated migraines.


I feel like I couldn't read. Like, you can sort of see where I get the same. It's called a stoma. Yeah. Yeah, I get the same thing. I've gotten classical migraine since I was 13. It's 12 years. I remember high school and you take Excedrin every morning because I'm scared.


Wow. Wow.


Yeah. So afraid you'd be afraid of getting a migraine often perpetuates that.


And so I've been on multiple pharmaceuticals, you know, over the years to try. But the one thing that's worked the best is and think, well yeah, I mean I went an entire year without a migraine. Wow. And now I just get the visual or I don't really get pain anymore.


And what do you think it's from? What do you get to do? I mean, it could be a lot.


And so in general, migraine. I need to be even keel. Yep. Right. Same amount of sleep eating on regular.


It's like the deal with migraines from what I understand. Correct me if I'm wrong. I know you well. It's like it's about routine.


Whatever you eat, whether you drink the same, it's not about if you drink coffee or if you sleep well or not, it's just do the same thing all the time.


There's certain foods which aren't good. Barometric pressure is a big thing.


Barometric pressure, which is, you know, like I know what it might be like, the humidity, the tension in the air, like it used to be like summer.


I get a lot more migraines. It's just it's a physical pressure on the blood vessels on them.


I would think it's like pollen or allergies be. But and then even like flashing lights. Lights. Oh, yeah.


They've shown that strobe lights, but also straining like should you get your vision checked straight and could do it. Yeah, lots of things can do. It's any sort of stress Friday night. Yeah. Physical stress, chemical stress, all that. You feel like we're just a little bit more frail in that regard right now.


What I do instantly when I get one now is I do it Imitrex inhaler.


OK, and then what should I do sparingly. I only I don't get migraines is often now, but I remember what I was doing a TV show for ABC.


I was getting such bad migraine. It's like three times a week, four times a week.


And then I was taking like Imitrex and repacks like all these like medications, medications. And they were getting worse and worse, worse. And I was like, am I taking it too late? And then I called the doctor like, oh, well, if you take to it too many times a week, it actually causes migraines.


Like what?


Like this just happened to be my sinus infection as I was using side X, you know that to clear my sinuses.


And I was using I use it for like four or five days that it was getting worse or worse. Worst like. Oh, yeah, if you use it too much, it's going to make it worse. It's like, why are these all the market.


Yeah. Well, it's just goes back to the thing we're talking about, where we adapt to it. I mean, Alfred, addiction is apparently it's a big deal. Real thing. Oh, yeah. Where? Well, it's not really an addiction.


I would say it's part of the wrong word, but it's a tolerance that people get used to it so they have to keep doing.


I don't read the label. I don't have time. Yeah, I'm not most people are not really label.


It's you know, let's just be clear. So I was like using the side X and it it just keeps getting worse and worse and worse.




So then the thing that you're taking to fix your ailment is exacerbating.


It could be wild. Yeah. So ridiculous.


OK, so I want to go back to the migraine stuff.


Yeah. Light sunglasses, working out, eating like I'm hearing and eating a lot of fast.


They don't want to eat till dinner but I can't fast.


Yeah. I don't feel good fasting. Yeah. I think some people can't pass. I mean I try to, I don't and I part of it's that lingering fear migraines because I when I possible. Yeah. Yeah. I can trigger it. Yeah. So I guess a lot of your tablets.


No, no I don't think if you know if you're not what to eat. Yeah. I mean I don't here's the thing. I don't think it's as big a deal as we're making it ought to be. I just don't watch this whole thing like oh eat from 12 to eight and that's it. Like you're going to extend your life. Yeah, I don't really see that happening. Yeah, but I would I'm open to people of trial and error.


So when you if you only eat from 12 to eight and that's great and you feel great, that's information that you should go by. But it shouldn't be for everyone. I think there's this pressure like I have to eat fast to be healthy. I just don't buy into that. I'll tell the story because it ties into the academy. And so it's a good to have a patient work with a lot of them Special Forces guys who have a ton of PTSD and was referred.


This one gentleman from Texas who was a helicopter pilot in the army, then worked for the police department and he was in a bad helicopter crash and his partner was killed and he was paralyzed from the knees down. So he was in the intensive care unit in the hospital. His wife could never see him. She never saw him, never, because he she wasn't allowed in. Then her dad got diagnosed with some terminal illness. She never saw her dad.


And then he ended up dying. She's so he came to her office and to do Nadeen ketamine this last week. And we combine the two. So we give people an ID intravenously, then we give him a shot of ketamine if they're a good candidate. And the first day he did great, had a great experience, really opened him up a bit, kind of get some clarity and insight. Second Day had a great treatment as well. And then that was on a Tuesday, around eight thirty at night.


He called me and he said, I need help, like I can't be by myself and because his wife wasn't with him. So I went and picked him up and we spent the night with him and talked to him and off the ledge. And it was very helpful for him to ask for help. Yeah. And that ketamine in the energy really kind of helped turn things around, but I'm happy to do so.


Technically, it's an A.D.A receptor antagonist. So when it binds to that receptor, it slows down glutamate, this neurotransmitter glutamate going across the neurons in glutamate. When people get too much glutamate like MSG, for example, MSJ is the Solanos. Sodium glutamate. Yeah, it's like excitatory. People don't feel good. Is that Chinese food? Chinese food? People don't feel good. So when you slow down glutamate, you have more insight and clarity into your thought process.


Yeah. Yeah. And so it's important because I think glutamates the the neurotransmitters that's involved most in memory consolidation. So whether you're young and developing a personality or you have, you know, traumatic event, those memories are shaped by how glutamate interfaces with your nervous system. So when you use ketamine, this is my simplistic view of it. You change how that ketamine, that glutamate is working in your nervous system. So you're able to see things from a different perspective and form new memories that then you reinforce in a positive way.


So then that trauma or stress, you've literally healed.


I mean, it's so miraculous.


It's things that I have struggled with for 30 years, like overnight, like forgive my mom done for like like when I do the ketamine, I'm like, oh, I owe that person an apology from high school.


I should reach out to mom.


Like, it's just like ego, shame and guilt are lifted for me. This is my personal experience. Resentments are gone. Sure.


The sort of I didn't realize how much dread I carry with me. Like, I'm always like waiting for the shoe to drop and I buy catastrophic thinking.


It's so severe that it's always like like just anticipating the worst case scenario all the time. Just dreading. Yeah. Dreading the future, getting up, being like this again.


I mean it's like I've never been suicidal.


It's not that I it's just like oh ever even things that I've worked so hard to achieve and you get it and then you're just like oh I have to respond to this email about this living my dream like it just like you know, I mean, it's like it's just never good enough.


It's just yeah. It's just like nothing's ever enough like.


You know, I can I don't feel like, you know, I talk about this podcast about, you know, my code of patterns in my you know, I think this is nature. It's nurture. It's being a woman.


It's my conditioning. It's growing up around borderline personality disorder where you had to people please obsess over other people's needs. In order to be safe, you have to micromanage and mother at martyr and you had to be an adult too soon.


And you have to, like, anticipate people's needs and moods, you know. I used to not have the ability to tolerate the discomfort of others. That's sort of like what, Competitors', you're mad at me. It's like nothing's ever enough like I thought you did. Or I should buy you dinner. Now, do you feel now I feel weird. I shouldn't. I didn't. I tipped 20 percent off that insulting is that took too much. Like just everything is a thank just nothing is ever enough.


Yeah. Nothing's ever over.


Like it's like, you know, there's no peace.


You do a lot of things out of obligation. You do a lot. This person wants hang out. I'm going to hang out this person. You hang out with them and you feel like. I should have said that I didn't even want to be here, like I didn't want to hang out with this person, not beating myself up over, not doing a good enough job hanging out with them. But I didn't want to come in the first place, like just just like just like just misery cycle.


You go work out to feel better, look better. And you're like, I have work that wasn't good enough like I did. If I could kind of have hours that work, I want to do that. Fuck you in the parking lot.


You're like well like it's just like everyone's friends and then got to be just maybe sort of be like, cool.


I nailed that. Now, like I should say, small wins. I just. Yeah. Like I just sort of feel like kind of psyched about whatever's happening. Yeah.


Well they did a study head to head of ketamine versus than SSRI, which is like Prozac, Lexapro, Lexapro, Paxil. And they showed because people are familiar, you take this, that, you know, those medicines take three to four weeks to kick in, literally ketamine's instantaneous to get the same effect. I think that's amazing.


Amazing. I mean, it gets a very bad rap because I think it's a street drug. It's abused. Yeah, it's abused. Yeah, it's not drink.


I've never done Special K. Well it's kind of like I wish I had. Yeah. But that was like our super high dose that like paralyzed people or something.


I mean people still do that. Oh really. Yeah. I guess depends on the form, the vehicle, how you do it, how much you do or something for sure.


But you could go in now and do like a session supervised as well for sure. Like people can come to your office. Right. Correct.


But you're not like fucked up for the rest of that.


I know not how we do it. Yeah, no, not at all. You have this experience where we do it as intramuscular shot. And so you have this experience which lasts about thirty minutes, sometimes forty maybe.


Yeah. And then we have people with an eye mask, but certain music on kind of guide the journey. Oh nice. Yeah. And so it's a very interpersonal keep it quiet in the room. No talking, checking on people often and then they come out and they usually it's very cathartic, they feel emotional, they've learned some things, they've seen some things very I was I think it's a great tool when used appropriately. I think it's a good entry point for people.


Oh right. Yeah. Like not the first thing that shouldn't be the first. Yeah.


The ketamine probably is actually because ketamine gets your your feet wet into this kind of feeling out of control. Yeah. And what I say to a lot of patients is work with a lot of high achievers is what's gotten you here, which is the hard working in fighting and scrapping and calling. The wisdom actually is to get you there is probably the surrender of the allowance and the acceptance. Yeah. And as a society, we tend to think that is weak, but it's really not doesn't mean you give up.


It means you surrender to the you're not necessarily in charge of all this. The Alpha sleeps.


So it's it's a really good entry. Ketamine for for lots of great work.


I know I've never done mushrooms and everyone thinks I'm crazy. I did LSD when I was like thirteen and it was did not go well. Yeah. Because I was like such a control freak and I was just like wanted. Yeah.


And then I tried to do mushrooms a couple of months ago, but I just didn't have time.


Like I I'm such a workaholic that I can't be a drug addict except to addicted to my work because I was like, oh, but I have to like plan it like I could like schedule it like I just, I could do it like I have them downstairs. But is, is mushrooms a tool.


That's another. I mean and so again, a lot depends on how you're using it. Yeah.


So traditionally those I don't think I need to expand my I feel like I'm in a good.


Yeah but a lot of those I don't want to know anymore and a lot of those tools got ruined because people were using recreationally and just that's not I mean if you're using them therapeutically it's different. Yeah. Yes. The key is, Hanschen, the intention is here. You're not do I think I think it's this.


And from what I know about addiction, like if you're using it to check and not check out.


Yeah. That's a really good way of putting it. Right. So it's like if you're using ayahuasca or mushrooms to check out and forget about your problem scape at anesthetize yourself. No good if you're using it to confront and to like, forgive and to explore, like to go into it. Well, like you said.


So I think a way with a lot of these work is with ketamine and allows the ego to settle down. Yeah. And then you're able to explain ego.


How would you define. I don't know. I don't even know how to define it. It's really challenging.


From what I understand, ego is like your what you project like your defense that comes up when you're scared to overcompensate like, you know, it's your shadow, it's you're like, I don't think all ego is bad.


I mean, I think ego is what drives us to be achievers. Yeah. Ego is kind of very humanistic.


Yeah. We want to have a very negative pejorative. I agree. So it helps us get material things. Helps us achieve. Yeah. Whereas if you look at something like our consciousness or spirit, they're much more interested in the peace and like the kind of betterment of our consciousness as a whole. Right. Which is not really attached to ego. It's like you read the four agreements kind of the numbers pretended to like.


Number three is don't take things personally. Yeah. Wonderful statement like fixes most things that people don't take things personally, that everyone does. That's the ego, you know. Yeah, take it personally, like you meant that to hurt me or you meant that, you know. Yeah. No, I'm just doing my thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


And so, like, life doesn't happen to you. It happens for you. You know, it's like it's like if someone's hurts you they're just hurting themselves really. They're just. Well I'm probably.


You invited that into you. Yeah. That interaction. So you can also heal that part of you. But a lot of people want to be hurt. Oh for sure.


Like that. It's a weird thing to say. But as someone that used to be addicted to self deprivation and I think being a victim, I think being victimized gives you is a role that you probably got honestly, like if you truly were a victim, like and it works for you and they have an agent that gets something.


It's a very comfortable place to be. If you're a victim, like complaining, feels good gossiping.


The attention feels good.


Being beat up on feels kind of good sometimes complete, you know.


Yeah, I had this I think of this I had this patient this couple of years ago and he had this chronic reactivation of Epstein Barr virus, which is rare, but it happens and referred to me for some I.V. therapy. And I said, let's do need because I want you to feel better before we start tackling the bigger things. Disabled, depressed, not working for years. We did five energy treatments when we later came back to the office with his wife.


She's crying and my husband's back. He's excited. I said, this is awesome. Let's continue this. They said, Oh, no, no, no, we're good. We're going to try something else, which was that seemed like you enjoy being the victim. You're getting something out of the stay.


And I see that it's also just like is change is hard. I mean, it's like when you ask someone how they're doing, oh, you're so tired. I was alone. I was like, no one's ever like, I'm good, right?


Like, you know what I mean? It's just like it's it's also not like cool to be OK now it's very in vogue to, like, be sick.


Everyone who you don't have a prom, everyone needs to have like an allergy or like a Lyme disease or like. True.


Jeremy, it's also very enclosed to be sick and have a diagnosis, to have a diagnosis like a like I've been in trouble for this, but it's like like this anxiety thing.


Everyone's got anxiety like, yes, of course.


But you should have it. It'd be weird to not have anxiety right now.


Well, yes and no. Like like not a unuseful anxiety. Yeah. But like, yes, we're at a pandemic. Yes. The election was very stressful. We're on our phones. Look at what the news the news makes money off of scaring the shit out of us. Like they're just trying to their slot machines now. They're just trying to keep us addicted to go back to refreshed.


I mean, the words they use, like like, you know, a friend of mine is whatever.


Who cares if they're afraid? That's a famous person, like responded to someone on Twitter that was shitty to them. That was just like, you know, I don't like a show. And she was like, cool. I just like responded like Sellwood.


So Clapp's back. So so slams like they pick words intentionally that, you know, and then you read the article, it's like, is your drinking water killing your children?


Click here and you're like, I guess, you know, it's just like so stressful.


But I just feel like there's a little bit of you know, I think in terms of like survival of the fittest and what helped our species proliferate, like the most anxious people were probably the ones that were able to procreate, the ones that were able to survive. Right. Like we got this anxiety.


Honestly, I don't I don't know. I mean, I think there's there's a time and a place for anxiety if it's protective, like, I don't think the stuff or being anxious about we really need to be anxious about it's obsolete.


But like our brains have it evolved to know how safe we are now, right?


Yeah. I mean, I think it ties into back to that cortisol thing. Yeah. You know, and I think for a lot of people, anxiety comes from not being able to keep up with. Yeah. Secreting cortisol appropriately. Yeah. Most of us will never have to deal with a life or death stress like we think of primitively. Like living in your neighbor got eaten by lying in the jungle, like literal, you know, legitimate concern for your muscles will never deal with that.


But we're operating the same kind of biological mechanisms when we're stuck in traffic. Yeah. And listening to the news or something. And so that whole process, I think, is modulated. I think you can change that. I think what I see is that people are empowered to know that they can actually do whatever they want. Yeah, you can change all of your thought process if you practice, but I think it ties back to the victims. We've been toned down so much that people don't even believe that they have the choice in that.


Yes, they do. It's 100 percent. You can change anything you want.


And it's also really important, I think, like the emotional contagion of the people you surround yourself with for sure.


Like. I hope people, after listening to podcasts like Block a couple of motherfuckers on their phone like there, you cannot be around people that are addicted, desire and stress and not have that rub off. Right?


Well, it's like I tell people that there's only been one thing that's been shown to help every single type of cancer. That's positivity. Well, that's it. So for people who are diagnosed with cancer, but it shouldn't just apply to them. Right, because cancer is really a wake up call. If you're diagnosed with cancer, a lot of it goes back to those toxic relationships that you're harboring and buying into and the guilt and the shame and you will never get out of it.


Hopefully it's a wakeup call, like I don't have time for any negativity.


Yeah. And I think people are so and we talk about a lot. But like addicted to toxic relationship, it's so hard to see that you have a choice.


Like, it's so hard to break up with a friend.


It's so hard to cut off a brother or sister are like a mob or what, you know, I mean, it's just so hard.


But it's like I always just say, like, you got to get off the dance floor. Like it's like you do have a part in a toxic relationship.


Like if you're blaming and you're well, this person keeps calling me, will you keep answering? I don't know your life, what you tolerate, I.


Yep, nothing changes if nothing changes. But I think people are afraid of being just really real about. Yeah. And they are like that.


And also, I think something that helps, I think, for people to go at.


So be that to cut off this toxic person, like the only way I was able to do it was to reframe it as like you're actually helping lift you up because you're giving them a consequence you're giving them as opposed to enabling them.


It's very passive. Yes.


Like it's like dogs pulled the carpet a hundred times the first time. You're like, why are you being on the carpet? It's like, well, you never you know, it's like it's OK.


I thought it was OK. Yes. Yeah. So I just so many people I know are just these like toxic relationships that takes such a toll on their physical and mental health.


And it's just like, you know, I think we, you know, amount of supplements, no amount of exercise is going to fix that toxic relationship.


But I think what can like we talked about is figuring out how to empower people to understand that everything that happens in life is a choice. Right. And you got to own it.


And if it's bad, own it still also owning it like it doesn't mean you have to stop it. It just means you own it.


Like it's actually, you know, I think for me, because I always got my self-esteem or my or sort of comfort from blaming other people because a lot of people dropped the ball when I was you know, it's very easy to blame your mom, Blaber. Dad and Labor that, you know, my ex and my dad said my boss and whatever.


And because that means I get to be perfect, you know, but there's something so empowering about taking responsibility and just going, oh, well, that's on me.


Right? It's such a relief because you're like, oh, shit, I actually have some control over this.


Yeah. It's like Gary V.. I heard a quote. He said, take responsibility for every single thing in your life and watch what happens.


It's like it's a miracle.


It's amazing the empowerment that comes from when you own every single thing.


That's my fault. Oh, my God. That was my fault. Yeah, only my fault. Yeah, I should've said that. Right. I should have done that. Yeah. It's like there's no way to go from there.


It's like but I think a lot of people, myself included, like there's this hard wired Chaib about doing anything wrong or in perfect or b you know, well bitting fault.


We were talking before we started this about, you know, generational thing. Yeah. Ancestral things. And there's these patterns and they're very wired. They're very real. It's very challenging for people to break into these family dynamics and patterns that then we were just raising the same thing over and over. And people are becoming less empowered over time, in part because the media and they're just reading headlines, they stop critically thinking, yeah, but it takes a lot of work for most people to understand that, like, no, you can change that pattern.


Yeah. And that pattern breaking that pattern is monumental.


I mean, the ancestral trauma that we carry, it's real. It is. So I mean, it imprints on our DNA, like does the guilt, the shame does.


And it's hard to say, like does it all come from our genes? Is it all come from how we're raised? It's certainly in combination, yeah. It has to be a combination, but it's passed down. You know, if you expose a young child and they say that the majority of our personalities formed before they were five years old, well, the majority of you will be.


And how you react to the world for the rest of your life starts before your flight and before you're fifty five years old. Well, so those experiences are critical. We don't seem to have control over them because we're too young. Yeah, but then when we can look back when we're older and say, OK, I can modify how I respond and understand that like this is a pattern that's happened in my mind. Right. Like it's having to my parents and their parents.


And I don't want to be a part of that.


And I, I think there's a little bit of like guilt and breaking it off. Like, I'm not sure you're not rejecting them. They didn't want it either.


Like you're just the first generation shining a light. Yes, we're the first generation that's like, you know what?


That's an obsolete tool. Like, you know what that served my grandmother. Really? What the guilt and shame cycle serve my grandmother really well. The Depression, but, like, don't need that now. Right. You know, I think there's a little bit of guilt about evolving and growing, especially because, you know, as we say, a 12 step programs, when you get healthy to get angry. You know, like people don't like it when you get better.


Your family is not going to like it when all of a sudden you have boundaries and self self-respect and high self-esteem and art in that role that they've cast to it. Because when you're not when you stop being a doormat, people will like it.


So so tell me about some like ketamine or ayahuasca. What what they do literally is they help you have compassion. Yes. For yes, that's right. That's right. It helps you to have compassion for these negative things. And that and that is so critical because it doesn't mean you have to like them. If you can have compassion for what they went through and how they treated you, then you're actually going to be able to pass that forward and change change the whole paradigm.


Like it's so instant. I've spent so much time trying to forgive people and release resentments. These crystalize resentments and anger. Which I know on a conscious level is solid, healthy, like I know it's like being mad at somebody you know is drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die.


I know that consciously, but it's so hard to not hold those.


There's evidence that it was like the academy is the first thing that I just was like, oh, God bless his heart.


Right. Poor thing.


He was doing the best he could with the tools he had. That's all of us. It actually made me feel like I was the bully in most of these situations because I was so impatient with the lack of tools this person had their toolbox.


Why would my dad have any ability, right.


To like, like be, you know, Leave It to Beaver?


And I'm trying to think of a perfect Mayberry or to like and I'm also so grateful for the adversity I had because it gave me all these like have all these, like, weird superpowers.


And because I had who you are. Yes. Because I adapt so young. Right. You know, so it just it makes every it makes everything good news. Yeah. Everything's good news.


But to make that job great now to get this other job. But if I got that job I would have got this like it's just like but to be honest everything is good.


Yeah. But I didn't understand like it and it just is.


And then once you understand that like all the anxiety can go away, like go get covered. But I'll be ok. But I'll be fine. Yeah.


And yeah these people are annoying the hell out of me but it's OK because I understand that they're in a really tough situation.


Like it's all practice. Like I could, I could especially like, you know, this is coming out around the holidays like people were.


It is so. Wild, how quickly I could time travel to be like a teenager, a bratty teenager around family members, like it's just like like you walk in the door, it's like boom. But the like you're just like, why are you like they don't you know, they for our family members, we're kind of frozen in time for that.


Yeah. You know, for sure.


And when I go back into family circumstances and they still treat me like I'm a kid or young. Yeah.


It makes me feel so invisible and misunderstood when I feel misunderstood, invisible, like I just get so that I just get so frustrated, I feel so alone and so angry.


And then you start to like convince them that you're an adult, which is super childish, and then you start sort of feeding into what they already see because you're being petulant and being like, I was successful. I like how could you not have seen like, you know, it's just like a nightmare, right? Instead of just. Like going to my elders really like, what was it like for you in college, like just like getting information from them?


That's a good point. Like asking them questions.


Like that's my new approach with like difficult people is just like or and go back to not taking it personally and.


Yeah. They do this to everyone. They're actually just trying to make conversation with you. They're trying to probably usually people are Meenu they're trying to be funny. Right.


Which is the other day or they're just like, you know, insecure or rambling or just bobbing really. Yeah. And I think you just ask them questions about themselves. You're you're going to benefit. You're going to learn something. And ultimately, people just want to talk about themselves. That's true.


Well, that's a really good tactic. That's like my whole tactic. Difficult people. Where do you live? Where do you come from? Understanding. Yeah. Where are you from originally? Where did it. Yeah.


And it triggers and I mean, like in medical school, they did the study, they stood outside doctors offices and they collected the trash to look at what the prescriptions were turned away. And they found like thirty five percent of the prescriptions are thrown away every day from patients going to see the doctor. And people are like, well, why is it? And they want to go and get a prescription. No, what people really want is just to be heard.


Oh, my gosh. And it's very true.


That's not what people want. They don't want prescription. I think that's the same with prostitutes. Yeah. A lot of prostitutes say that they'll like go to the room with the person, just really wants to talk, wants to talk, wants to be listened to.


Understood. Wants to be validated. Yes, people need validation. But I think the key is if you can have validation for yourself and say like, yeah, I forgive myself, I'm doing the best I can. Yeah. Life gets so much easier. And then.


Unless you're dealing with someone who has a personality disorder, personality disorders are tough, but they're not modifiable, right? Technically. So if you've got borderline like you brought up, borderline is they love you until they hate you and the borderline is.


Can you just your definition of borderline.


Borderline is it's it's love. Hate like it flips. Yes. According to how they feel. Yes. Extremism.


And does this come from a trauma or is it inherited borderline personality. So I think there's a genetic predisposition for all this stuff. Right. Right. But then I think it's a set up for development. Right. Right. So the way I think about it, some milestone wasn't met. Right? Right. Like they weren't hugged enough. They weren't seen in eye contact enough. Whatever it is, it wasn't met. And so they had to escalate somehow and a kind of on a sideways way to kind of fulfill that, to make it OK for them.


Yeah. And so probably is a lot of self-worth things, I think. Yeah, I think people don't when they look there, they really hate themselves. Yeah. And so then they're projecting that on others because what they really want is that hug to be validated like you're good how you are.


But there's this great that there's a great book, I think it's called Walking on Eggshells about how to deal with borderline personality disorder. And it's like. Like, I know I'm dealing with some of that borderline personality, sort of I if I instantly start being unctuous and complimenting them and like worrying about it, just I just instantly start to make myself small and minimize myself. I won't, like, talk about work or anything good that's going on with me.


Like, I instantly start that.


I'm like, oh, God, this is happening. Right? It's just like I vibrate at a different frequency with they just make me feel scared and they feel like authority figures to me right away. The people that when they they call and you're like, how do I answer that?


You know, because you never know what you're gonna get. You don't know the mercurial nature of the borderline. It's like it's it's super challenging. And any type of self care on your part feels like a rejection to them.


Right. Yeah, I understand that, yeah, and there's a lot of I mean, so people can have personality traits. Yeah. Which is different than a disorder. Yeah.


I mean how do you know if that was borderline? I think it's just a clinical thing. Yeah. How they feel. They're very hot and cold. Yeah. I get concerned when I see patients who are overly complimentary, like you don't need to compliment me to the end of the earth. Like it's just because that's what I get concerned about, because I know on the other side of that, if I don't answer your message in a certain of time that yep, yep, yep, I'm the devil.


Obviously the president does. And that's what I get concerned would be like, oh, my gosh, you're the greatest people to know too much like I just met you. And you're saying I'm the best doctor in the world. So you don't know that. And I don't feel like that.


You know, I don't need to I don't need to ask my therapist if I was borderline what's and she was like is usually don't come to therapy and ask if they're borderline. So I was like a narcissist. She's like, narcissists don't come to therapy. And I know you're just you just want to be special. You want to you want to feel good. You feel left out. Right.


There's a bunch of I mean, borderlines tend to be cutters. So they'll try to, you know, get attention by cutting their wrists, things like that. Right. Right, right. It's complicated, but they say.


But it is also like. Borderlines make you feel like you're crazy. That's how could they challenge you? That's how confusing it is.


Like you really start to think that you've done something wrong.


Yeah. Sociopaths the same way. I mean, sociopath, sociopath, psychopath, sociopath. That's a good question. I think sociopaths are the ones who are like chameleons. Yes. Right. And they take on like they can really like their very charismatic. Yes. And they like take on the personality of the person. They're just mirror that. They mirror them and they're really good salespeople like they're the best because they can just get inside your head and make you feel like, oh, but they lack empathy.


They lack there's no empathy. Right. So it's there the probably the hardest to deal with I think.


Well there's no well said. They say they say it's a personality disorder. There's no treatment because it's so ingrained in their personality. Right. That you can't get them back. Yeah. You can just kind of try to guide them.


And then when you're dealing, is it true that. The higher level of success like Ashqelon you're in, the more sociopaths, there are problems. They're very high performing, very successful, like a lot of the people that have a lot of followers on Instagram that are very successful in their business, like entrepreneurs. Silicon Valley.


I'm generalizing, but like a lot of these people that are kind of running the world you want in, a lot of them have that narcissism, too, and you can have a narcissistic sociopath that right in the swipe right.


The narcissistic is a dream. Yeah, the world, high 20s.


The world revolves around them. Yeah. Like, there's how you can't they cannot conceive of anything.


No, there's no dealing with the narcissist. There's no. You're just begging your head against a wall. Yeah.


You just got lazy. Well I think it's just understanding what you're dealing with and then trying to, you know, kind of just corral them in different ways.


Is it true that narcissists. They are specifically narcissistic, boastful, egomaniacal, whatever it is about, whatever they think they're great at or the best or, you know, based on what their parents didn't approve of, I don't know, I I like the way I read this.


I go like I'm very into narcissist. And I did like a deep dive on them.


And I read something somewhere about like if someone thinks you're like the best athlete, it means like their dad didn't think they were good enough athletic Leggett's to overcompensate. It's definitely overcome. They project the image that their parents would have approved. That could be. Yeah, there's something interest. I just think it seeps into every aspect of life, like they have to talk about themselves. They can't there's no way they're asking questions. It's all about them. They can't conceive of a world where they're not the very best.


It's so damaging to their psyche. The idea of not being the star, the center of the world, I think it's so damaging to them, they cannot tolerate it literally.


But there's a difference between being confident and having high self-esteem and knowing your worth and being a narcissist. And I think it's hard to tell delineate sometimes because I think there is this new generation that's going like, yeah, I should speak up, I should lead in like I am good at this.


Like and it's easy to conflate that with, I think, narcissism.


They can't be humble. Like, that's just a good imagination. Right. And they like you said, there's no empathy. Yes. There's just not one way street. It's all about them all the time.


What are the biggest myths in. Well, this culture, like the biggest like the most FUI. Like charcoal, toothpaste, taking charcoal or we take a charcoal, I mean, I don't know much about charcoal on the spot there. I mean, if you don't know about it, it's probably not. There's probably I mean, it's hard to say. Like, if you dive into, like, the history of, like, healing modalities. Yeah.


There's a lot of really things that don't make sense. Yeah. And a lot of it is the deliberate effort of the pharmaceutical mainstream medicine to quiet those. Yeah.


So like for example, like people don't realize, but in the tombs of many Egyptian mummies, they found all these botanical herbs like licorice root, which was like 5000 years old.


The other ones that don't taste good, even in Neanderthal gravesites, they find these botanical herbs and in, you know, like I Aveda like using ashfall. Gonda has a history in the historical record for thousands of years. So these things are really to me, that's information that these things work. Yeah, they're passed down for a thousand years. Yeah. But if you read, you know, the mainstream medicine, they say, oh, they haven't been tried in a study like this is all bullshit.


Right. Like they're not a drug. How dare we, you know, if it's not a drug. But you could apply the acupuncture people say to traditional Chinese herbs. Yeah. There's there's a lot of these modalities which actually have a really strong basis. Acupuncture works.


Acupuncture can work. Yeah. I don't think anything works for everybody. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a big fan of trial and error because to me it's like acupuncture.


It's like the stress of going to the appointment. It's kind of like undoes the whole.


But you wouldn't think that if if you went there and you had a good experience and you saw the results, you're like, OK, yeah.


I mean, I think it's some of this expectation. Like if you go and you think it's going to make you superwoman, you know. Yeah, there's mismatch expectations there, but I think so I think we're speeding up because the social media, with all these different things people are trying, they're claiming is the next best thing. There really is no next best. Yeah, yeah. There just isn't. So you can you could argue for or against anything you want.


Yeah. Right. And I just say just try it all. Yeah. Like how are you going to know unless you try.


It's got to be like there's no panacea for everybody. Can't be blood type. I don't know enough about it to the blood type diet, that doesn't make a ton of sense. Yeah, you know, they're even saying blood type with covid like certain blood types are protected maybe. The problem with this is humans were so many variables and we can never control for all the variables.


If you people are looking at these studies right now, you can refuse to simplify something. That's what's so interesting about we're similar in this way. I think, like you refuse to generalize or simplify. Yeah, but people just want I think I think for the most part, we'd rather just be lied to. Just tell me I have to be the blood type, OK, type. I'm more susceptible. I've got it.


Like we just kind of want a false sense of security so bad and stuff.


And I think like the people that I trust are the ones that are like sometimes like it's too we don't have enough information, you know, but it's very well organized for us.


The way I think about it is every single thing is made up. Yeah. Every single thing you learn, everything is made up. And people say, well, no, there's things that are fact, not really. Because if you think about let's take, for example, the Revolutionary War like this happen, well, this may have happened, but it was interpreted by someone that was through their lens of the world who recorded that, who's passed down through someone reading that.


And it's through their lens. Looks like it's passed down. Everything is subjective, every single thing. So once you understand that, oh, fucking true. So every single thing is made up. Yeah.


So the only thing that matters is everything goes up basically every all histories gossip. So what matters most is what you feel about it. Yeah. And once people understand it it's very empowering. Be opinionated, make a choice on something.


But does it feel true. Yeah. I mean does it feel right and you may be wrong. Yeah I go down that pouncy ups but you're trying it and you're open to it.


We do have a biological need to know.


We know stuff to be know it alls wear this little wristband because I take a blood thinning medicine now. So two months ago I was diagnosed with these blood clots in my liver veins right out of the blue flukey, didn't see it coming, was hospitalized for several days. And one of the main lessons I learned is like nothing is guaranteed, like I am in really good health. Yeah, this was not on my radar. Yeah. I was starting this massive Kirpal.




And so one of those lessons is, is I don't want to just live in a state of anxiety, fear and worry.


Well it doesn't prevent because it help like at all. Yeah. Like so I want to make the most of everything which is going to be positivity. Yeah. Abundance like life is always working out. Yeah. Because that's a choice.


That is a choice.


The thing that sort of made 12 step programs like really stick for me because I kind of could I couldn't like lock in for a little while to go get the people and the people are eating. They're shaken up salad things. And like, I just people just enervated me so much. When I first went, I didn't have, like, radical compassion yet and I wasn't, like, curious about people.


Like, I just everyone just like me. Like, I was so obsessed with being I was so drunk on, like, self righteous indignation and criticising and judging that it was like but the Serenity Prayer, they say at the end of the meetings and I always leave before the end. And then finally I like stayed one time probably because there was a cute guy there, something I want to flirt with, like some unhealthy reason that I stayed. That's grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things that I can and the wisdom to know the difference.


Yeah. And you like once that really landed, it was like, oh yeah.


Just focus on the things you can control.


Like recently my. Not trying to equate your health thing with a dog. No, it's OK. I hate when people do that. I never was like my ferrets and I'm like, not the same. So I'm not going to do that. But it's OK. It was like I could not be more obsessive about my dog's health. I could not I mean, anyone listening have kids like you, bubble wrap your whole like all you do. And he is like a freak accident, ripped his leg open, tore an artery, three tendons.


And it was like. That the one thing I like, the one time I wasn't looking at, like I it was just freak, like there's no way I could have controlled it.


There's no prevented it, couldn't it? Couldn't have worrying about it. I worried about so many other things for no reason. And then that happened. It's just like accepting that freak shit is going to happen and you're going to get through it and you're going to adopt.




And then it's a choice of how you respond, like you're going to survive for sure it's going to happen. But I think if we could take away the fear of the anticipation of the imminent well, that goes back to it's a lot of people try to meditate for is they just trying to be present?


Yeah, because most of anxiety is either you're living or focusing on past, past or the future where life only happens literally one second at a time, one moment followed by another moment. That's all you have control over. How can you ever. Because when you do when you're ten seconds ahead, ten weeks. And that's putting tension on a nervous system just has to because you're worried about something. So that tension is very real, you know, just think of that tension you're pulling on your nervous system because you're not in for impact, I feel like we're generally just bracing for impact.


Yeah, all the time. All the time. I think it's gotten so much worse this year.


What should we just never eat?


Soy. It's always dangerous. Jesus Christ, you I'm not going to say never, but it's it's it's a. nutrition. It's a. nutritive. It flames the fire of estrogen. We're exposed to way too many estrogens in our environment from pesticides, herbicides. Women have estrogen related cancers. Men need more testosterone, not more estrogen. So it's bad for the thyroid. It's just it's not good. Wow. Yeah.


And the people having all these soy lattes and lattes and a lot of the a lot of people, I think think they're being healthy by doing the plant based soy meats. Well, it's just pure soy.


Oh. And it's all genetically modified.


Fuck yeah. Fuck you. That, that you need that shit. It's like whack a mole. You solve one problem and it's like causes a whole other problem. But yeah.


But don't eat soy or if you do have soy sauce do you know sparingly stretching. You got to stretch, I guess, some of you I don't really. I love you.


I don't know why.


Sarda Yeah. Big fan got to do it. Oh, yeah. We we have my wife and I. We have a sauna. Got to do the sauna. We love Socrates.


Yeah. We just love it. What does it do.


It's a stressor like it's a heat stress and it causes good stress to your body. Yeah. Because and it's not necessarily the thing with the sauna or Copeland, it's not the actual temperature, it's the change in temperature. Well, it's also the rising of the temperature and then the fall of the temperature. And that change is really beneficial. We want to stress, we want to challenge our systems. But yeah, we love our song. It's the best purchase we've ever because you can do.


There's these ones you can get for your garage that are like small or I mean people if you're allowed to go to gyms now, you know, steam. Yeah, I think I think that's good.


But Sonna infrared sauna, I mean, it's a game changer. Infrared. See that I'm not doing it for it. Maybe that's my problem.


Well, infrared is going to get, you know, penetrate tissue at different levels. So it's very antiinflammatory.


So I'm doing hot sauna. That's good, too. What's what's what's better?


I mean, depends on how you use them. I would if I did. I just want someone to tell me. Infrared song. Infrared song. Infrared sun. Yeah. Yes, Hot Sun is good also.


It's really good you can't go wrong blue light glasses or you're doing them.


I don't. My wife does. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Helpful. Yeah. You have trouble sleeping and you know you're allowing that stimulating light in the bucket. Yeah. That makes sense to me. And if you wake up at a blue light on so you can start, you know, enhancing what's going on, your brain is anything women need to be taking.


The men don't need to be taking.


In terms of those supplements, that's a good question. Yes, women are more challenging just because of the cycling of hormones are personality and because of it.


But for the general that women have to deal with thyroid issues, men don't have to deal with estrogen issues to deal with. You know, I don't know if there's a particular supplement.


De de de de de de de de de de de de de that. At some point I think it can be good.


It also can be bad. You know, the problem with that is going to convert into estrogen. Oh, and so if you have someone and most women don't need more estrogen and more estrogen, weigh enough. Yeah. So then it becomes a challenge.


I mean, is it good, you know, we like to use individualize it for people every different. There's no I do not like generic statements like, yeah, this is good because you could all frame it.


It's all how you frame it.


Neti pots. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. It's cleaning your sinuses out with salt water and then add some sodium bicarbonate to it.


What's that baking soda that kind of helps to breed. And you do it every day.


I don't know. I don't have time. I don't have sinus issues. I don't have allergies.


If you have sinuses, I think it's a great thing to do because it's like a physical. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


I mean, it's like I never thought I had sinus issues. Oh. Now you do oils, what oils are you doing, coconut, olive like to cook with his olive is bad if it's heated up too much.


Yeah, flash. Flashpoint. That's true. I know. Yeah.


The best cooking oils are coconut, grapeseed, walnut oil, very high flashpoints that are stable.


You can so you can cook them at high temperature olive oil. You shouldn't cook with olive oil. Cold cold oil. Olive oil is only good cold. Correct.


That's cold that you can dip things in. That's true. I know. I mean, these are people are like whatever.


I mean what's like the what's the. No, this is the I want to get really great about how to shave it. This is what this is like. I'm asking you all this shit that I would want. No go for it if I could talk to you for fucking two hours for free. People just want to know, like. Sure.


Checklist. Yeah. Salad dressing is salad ourselves.


People say the salad is the worst thing you can get a restaurant because of the calories of the dressing. I don't know, I mean, you go to Russia, what do you order? I tend to eat a lot of animal protein. I think, yeah, meat, chicken. You're not going to a salad with blue cheese dressing.


I don't I'm not blue cheese. No, because of the migraines, but. Yeah, but I use other dressing. OK, I'm not afraid of food.


Yeah. Ever. Like, say, never, why would you be afraid of what you're eating? Yeah, you know what I mean. Like what? Oh, I can't believe because it's sick.


I'm never going to be afraid of what I sick. Yeah, no, it is a sickness.


We have created this adversarial relationship with you. It is. Your life is like one of the first we went on a date.


One of the first things she tells me is that she's I don't trust people that don't eat.


I was like, it's weird, right? Especially guys doesn't say especially my daughters men who are on diets. I'm sorry it's so unattractive to men who are on diets.


Oh, my God. Like, what are you doing? I know I didn't count. I know your father. Oh, you're paleo grey. I guess we're never gonna have sex when Regina's just dried up.


I kids, I'm so sexist. It's so when guys are like wusses.


Yeah. It's not what it is. It's what seemed to be a guy saying the dressing on the side.


Oh my God. Right. Can I get my eggs frozen because we're never going to procreate.


It's such a bummer. But I mean it's also just such a waste of our life was wasted like I remember busy one busy.


Philipps As I was on, we talked about this that she's seven time like I mean, women in food, like, look, we get it honestly, you know, it's such a fucked up relationship of food and are taught to fear and hate it and hate our bodies and, you know, not be able to enjoy food and punish ourselves with food. And even if we do have good food, we have to feel guilt afterwards.


But she says something that really kind of changed my mindset when I was having major eating disorders. She was like having a bagel or something. And we were like shooting a movie. And she was like in a bathing suit or something. And I was just like, how do you like what's going on with like, how do you just. And she was like. I think about myself on my deathbed. Whenever I get weird about food and I just think like that, I'm going to look back and go, I can't believe how much time I wasted obsessing about calories.


Well, like, I don't want to be lying on my deathbed thinking, like I wasted so much time.


There's so much people, so many people waste so much time, but that the food is just one thing. Yeah. Fitness is another. Yeah. So many things we have hangups on. Yeah. Like it's totally unnecessary. Yeah, we've created this really it's a dynamic, yeah, it's a sickness and people make so much money off of it, that's part of the problem.


Diet foods and protein bars right there, candy bars, Eimear candy bars, for the most part, their candy bars. Yeah, I think there's probably some good ones there.


I mean, it's like red number five, sugar and caramel.


It's a Snickers bar. Yeah, for the most part. But I mean, again, drinking again does nothing, no, thank you. No. Most of the supplements don't really do anything. Yeah, I mean, yeah, let's be real. Yeah, I just don't I just don't want I say they just don't like people get hung up like, oh, yeah, I'm taking all the all the like.


I have a patient who started a couple of weeks ago and he sent me his supplement list, which was three pages long and a backpack. And I said, I don't I don't know if we're going to be able to do this, because that's part of your problem. Yeah, like the stress of that. Yeah. Totally sucks. Like for you to be hyper vigilant about everything going on with you. That's really a problem.


That's so much. We're like, what are you eating. Yeah. Are they even absorbing. Probably not. Yeah. We think oral supplements 20 percent. That's only about 20 percent. Yeah, and a lot of them have like dyes and chemicals and shit, most plastic like water. What's it made out of? Like what? I take a supplement. I'm like, isn't eating Tupperware.


Yeah. Like, what is this?


Yeah, it's weird that we just swallow pieces of plastic because they're healthy.


No, it's true. People do that with pharmaceuticals, which is crazy. No it is. But so many people. But what is it. Well, that's what goes back to the set of those toys.


When you were a kid where you put a little pill in water and little dinosaurs like what is on the bill.


Yeah, but most people will never ask that question. They'll just say, I'm supposed to do this.


Yeah. When you think about it, it's trash.


Yeah, I'm taking this for that. And they have no idea what am I going to take to make this pill not kill me.


Right. Right. Right. What's in the pill is probably just canceling out what's on the outside of the pills to ensure total negation, you just fix the whole supplement industry so dumb, there's so much stupidity.


But I mean, that's again, people kind of buy into that too many other major myths that drive you crazy, any of the things that drive you nuts. And people, like, come in and they're like. Hmm, that's a good question. We get a lot of questions about any air purifiers, and I'm sure there's vaporizers, they're good.


Look, what's the number one thing that you're like? Oh, that's such a scam.


I've seen those those foot ionising baths where people say, like drawers off all this black, like, you know what I'm talking about, like, oh, detoxify through your feet cupping.


I think cupping can work for people in a very specific local area. Yeah, yeah. I'm not colonics. I don't know that they don't understand.


We lived for thousands of years without putting things up our butts. Like, I don't understand, like I'm going to clean out the intestines. Yeah. I did a clinic once and it was like it's, it's so traumatizing. It's so someone puts a hose in your asshole. The guy that I went to was this doctor, I'll tell you off air his name.


I think he's dead, which is like a great sign. He's doing a lot of cleaning, was an awkward Tarion and slapped upside down.


Got it. Literally slapped me inverted. He said inverted.


So I'm so glad I found you. I was lost resow.


You were close to sleeping in Virginio. You would do is he would make a treadmill on an incline and then sleep, sleep on an upset.


And I was like okay. I truly was like all right. I guess I go to the gym and sleep, sleep at the twenty four hour like I was like, like the first like, like doctor I want to do in L.A. and he told me I couldn't eat tomatoes and he told me I could only see things that were indigenous to the area that my ancestor was from.




And I said to him once I wrote about this in my book, I said it was, um, you know, what if I'm like at the airport or something and I don't know, there's nothing to eat and I just like, grab a banana is a banana. You might as well put a gun in your mouth.


Oh. And then pretty extreme, he wanted to do colonics every week, and I went in and I did the first one and it's like he puts a hose, but and you feel like you're pooping. It's like the weirdest feeling. And then water goes up right over. And then it starts to come out and you start just seeing your poop and you're like, I feel like I could just that out later. Yeah. Like, I'm not sure why they say they're cleaning it.


I'm like, what are you cleaning? And then he's like talking to me the whole time, like namedropping. He's like, yeah, Jessica Alba didn't take as long as you did. I'm like, wow, this is so wildly inappropriate.


Yeah. It was, it was very crazy.


I'm glad I said I'm not a fan, not a fan. Adama's I don't even think I know what it is.


Same type of thing that you just do it at home. Yeah. Yeah.


Why do people want to put things in there?


So that it's a good question. Hmm, mm hmm. All right, I have much more things on here, but I feel like I'm keeping you comically long.


Keep doing the things that I wrote down here. I just I'm just right. Neti pots. Yeah. Stretching soy milk. Computer screens. Hmm, not great, yeah, but it's also like to me, it's like it's about what's on it. Like I like cell phones are bad, Instagram's bad. It's like, well who are you following?


I think you're probably falling. I think it's about balance. Yeah. Thank you for say don't use your cell phone. That's a stupid. Yeah. Of course we're going users often but don't use it. Twenty three hours a day.


Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's got moderation. Conservative moderation. Yeah. And we all feel guilty to it and it's ok. Yeah. We're going to be fine. Yeah. It's literally ok.


So wow. Hashtag Katamon. It's, it's a really you know I have conversations with people about it every week. It's been life changing, life changing, life changing for sure.


But the pharmaceutical companies will never allow it to be when they have their own version.


So they have the new ketamine nasal spray that's coming out. It's like a like a variant of ketamine as ketamine that's supposedly better, which will cost several hundred dollars. It's just more expensive for people. It's like, oh, this is the best, but. Yeah, not really. Yeah. So. But in truth, the financial companies don't like market share being taken or it's against their game plan, business plan for people to do really well. Right.


Not trying to be cynical just seems like. Yeah. That's where Blocher's. Beta blockers. OK, yeah. Or what should the government say they do? I mean, there, you know, I would say yeah, I mean, beta blockers should be good medicine. I take bad blockers sometimes for when I'm anxious.


Well, it's I was prescribed beta blockers for when I. Think of migraine is coming on, I get so anxious, I get so worried, I get a migraine that I take it to nip it in the bud. Yeah, I think that can be good. It's good for, like, it just stops adrenaline basically for people to get nervous, have to make a public speech. If you have to do a presentation just takes like it does before.


Does it make you high. I don't like that any of that shit. It's just sort of peripheral anxiety. All it does is take away adrenaline.


Yeah, it's going to be good. Yeah. OK, nothing wrong with that. Well, I feel healthier. Do you have any questions for me.


Do you need, do you need any, any of your medical history. Me.


My medical histories. If I could mess. Yeah I yeah I didn't even I did the Broca test ok.


I don't have that. I failed. That's, that's a that's good news. Yeah. Yeah. That's good news because ovarian cancer does run in my family.


Yeah. I mean, I mean genetic testing is tough. I mean there's some things that's good for most things not. I think it's somewhat skirmished. Right. Right, right. Right. I really do. Yeah.


But a lot of baby and all these people doing like all these genetic testing.


OK, I should eat this way. Work out this way. Yeah. I don't think anything.


Oh. What do they stand to gain. Well I just think the science is very early. Yeah. So it's like you there's diminishing genotype and phenotype. Right. You can have the genotype that says you have blue eyes but it doesn't penetrate into your system. So you still have brown eyes, huh.


Recessive gene. Well, the answer's recessive, right.


And dominant. But Jahleel, you go eleventh grade biology. Yeah, but there's no genetic test that'll tell you that.


Well, so people are getting hung up, paying lots of money for things.


D like to read me what you're predisposed to be sick with.


We're very dynamic. Anything's possible because then it's also like if you're living in that anxiety, you're telling me I'm predisposed to something, I'm just going to manifest getting it 100 percent.


I had a patient. This was years and years ago. We're giving her just progesterone. And every time she came in, I was just going to cause breast cancer.


No, this is all you're doing is thinking about breast cancer. Yes. A couple of years later, her husband came into the office and she was just diagnosed with breast cancer. Got. Yeah. So what what you focus on is what you get. You go through your look. Yeah, but every time. And so I think people, everybody that I know that's obsessed with getting sick, they're always sick because if you focus on the bad, you get bad.


If you focus on what you don't want, like the easiest is weight loss. People say, oh, I'm excited to lose weight when you're still focused on the weight. So I say focus on, oh, I want to wear that bathing suit. Huh? That's a different equation. Focus on what you want because you always got it. Yeah, brain explode. Yeah, hard for people to do, though, it's really hard, really hard.


You know, primitive brain is like a reptile brain wants you to just go to the shortcuts, go to the negatives.


And I think we're addicted to fear. I mean, adrenaline and the fear. It's very addictive. It's very easy to live that way for sure. It's very comfortable to live that way and it's comfortable you can get out of that. But it's worth it feels like jumping off a cliff, but you just have to like, no, there's not always 100 percent eye on these very awkwardly, as you know. OK. All right. Now I'm going to go make you look at my refrigerator, my Neidl collection, and tell me if everything's right.




Is there anywhere people should go? Follow your website.


Our website is Kinniburgh Wellness Care and IVR Wellness Dotcom. Same thing for Instagram of wellness. Yeah, that's about it. Thank you for having me. These are so awesome.


Thank you. Don't ride elephants, guys. Love you. Everything's going to be fine.


Sorry I be way.