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Welcome back. Here we go. Great to see you and congratulations. Thank you. You will never forget what is going on in the world. When you think about when your child is born, you will know for the rest of this child's life. You were born during a weird time, that's for sure.


That is for sure. The probably the weirdest that I can remember.


Yeah. Yeah. And he was born on May the 4th. And yeah. That's Lares too. Yeah. May the 4th be with him.


Yeah. Exactly. Has to be helpful. I sure hope so. Perfect.


Yes. I mean that was the perfect day for you.


Yeah. How do you say the name.




Of a place holder efforts. Well, my partner is the one that actually mostly came up with the name. Congratulations to her. Yeah. Yeah. She's great name. So, I mean, it's just ex letter X and then the Ehi is like pronounced ash.


Yeah. And then it.


Well 812 is my contribution. Oh why twelve Arcangel 12th. The precursor to the S or Seventy-one coolest plane ever.


I agree with you. I don't know. I'm not familiar with it. I know. I know the one is. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I know what that is.


But it's or 71 came from a CIA program called a called Archangel. Oh. So you OK. Your project. And the Archangel.


Well why would a duplicate plane. Yeah. Oh yeah. I get it. Well, as a person who's very much into aerial travel as you are. That's perfect.


It's pretty great. Yeah. Pretty great.


So is it does it feel strange to have a child while this craziness is gone? Does it feel like you've had children before? It is any weirder. It's I actually think it's better being older and having a kid. I appreciate it more. Mm hmm. Yeah. Kids babies are awesome. They are pretty awesome. They're awesome. Yeah.


When I didn't I didn't have my any of my own. I would see other people's kids and I didn't not like that. Sure. But I wasn't drawn to them. Sure. But now when I see little people's kids I'm like, oh I think of me like these love packages.


Yeah. The Luvox. Yeah. It's just you, you think of them differently when you see them come out and then grow and then eventually start talking to you like your whole idea. What a baby is is very different.




So now as you know, get older and get to appreciate it as a mature, fully formed adult, it must be really pretty wonderful. Yeah. Wonderful. It's great. Babies are awesome. They are. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. I also have I I've spent a lot of time on A.I. and neural nets. And so you can sort of see the kind of the brain develop, which is, you know what? And I know neural net is trying to simulate what a brain does, basically.


And you can sort of see the it learning very quickly, you know, just well, see things fight.


So you're talking about the neural net.


You're not talking about an actual baby, an actual baby, but both of them. Yes. But the word neural net comes from the brain. It's like a net of neurons. So, you know, it's like the. Yeah, humans are the. You know, a little gangsta, you know, that's a great way to put it. Yeah.


So when your programming artificial intelligence or are you working with artificial intelligence art? Are they specifically trying to mimic the developmental process of a human brain?


In a lot of ways, there's some ways that are different. In an analogy that's often used as like, you know, we we don't make a submarine swim like a fish, but we take the principles of of how, you know, what a hydrodynamics. And apply them to the submarine.


I've always wondered, as a layperson do try to achieve the same results as a human brain, but through different methods. Or do you try to copy the way a human brain achieves results?


I mean, the the essential elements of an a neural net are really very, very similar to a human brain. Neural net. Yeah. It's having the multiple layers of neurons and. You know, back propagation, these all these things are what your brain does. It's sort of. Yeah. You have to have a layer of neurons that goes through a series of intermediate steps to ultimately cognition and that, and then it'll reverse those steps to go back and forth and go all over the place.


At some. Yeah, it's interesting. Very interesting. Yeah, I would imagine, like the thought of programming, something that is eventually going to be smarter than us, that one day it's gonna be like, why did you do it that way? Like when an artificial intelligence becomes sentient, they're like, oh, you tried to mimic yourself like this. So much better process. Cut out all this nonsense like.


So there are elements that are the same. But just like most like like an aircraft does not fly like a bird. Right. It doesn't flap its wings, but the wings, the way the wings work and generate lift is the same as bird. Now, you're in the middle of this. This strange time where you're selling your houses. You say you don't want to material possessions and haven't seen all that. And I've been really excited to talk to you about this.


Yeah. Because it's an interesting thing to come from a guy like yourself. Like, why are you doing that?


I'm slightly sad about it, actually. But what if you're sad about it?


Why are you doing it? I think I think possessions kind of wear you down. Then there kind of an attack vector. You know, he'll say, hey, Bill, you know, you got to list stuff like, oh, the other stuff. Now, what were you going to do, attack vector? Meaning, like people targeted. Mm hmm. Interesting. Yeah. But you're obviously going to. So you're gonna rent a place. Yeah.


And get rid of everything that's up close. No, I said, like, almost everything. So it's like keep a couple tassels to Asha-Rose here. It has got to have. Yeah. It has product and stuff. Yeah. Those things that have sentimental value for sure are keeping those here. Yeah, so do you feel like that's what we're saying it happened? We're fine, yeah. You can always buy more stuff if you don't like it.


I suppose so, yeah. I mean, from the money that you sell your stuff, you could buy new stuff. But do you feel like people define you by the fact that you're you're wealthy and they define you in a pejorative way? For sure.


I mean, not everyone, but you know this for sure. In recent years, billionaire has become a per drop it like it's in a pejorative. So it's like that's a bad thing. Which I mean, I think dumb doesn't make a lot lot of sense in most cases, if you're if you're done if you basically organized a company. So I kind of how does this wealth arise? It's if you organize people in a in a better way to produce products and services that are better than what existed before.


And you have some ownership in that company, then that that essentially gives you the right to allocate more capital. So it it's that there's a conflation of consumption and capital allocation. So. We say Warren Buffett, for example. Andrea, tell me, Frank, I'm not his biggest fan, but, you know, he does like capital allocation and he read a lot a lot of sort of annual reports of companies and accounting. And it's pretty boring, really.


And he's trying to figure out, is this Coke or Pepsi deserve more capital? I mean, that's kind of boring job, if you ask me. But, you know, it's still a thing that's important to figure out, like which is a company deserving of more or less capital. Should that company grow or expand? Is it making products and services that are better than others or worse? And, you know, should you know, if if a company is making compelling products and services, it should get more capital?


And if it's not a check at less, we'll go out of business?


Well, there's a big difference to be between someone who's making an incredible amount of money designing and engineering fantastic products versus someone who's making an incredible amount of money by investing in companies or moving money around the stock market or doing things along those lines. It's a different thing. And to put them all in the same category seems it's it's very simple. And as you pointed out, it's an attack vector. Yeah, for sure.


I mean, I think it's really I do think they're in the in the United States especially, there's an over allocation of talent in finance and law, basically to any smart people go into finance and law. So, you know, this is both a compliment and a criticism. We should have of, I think, fewer people doing law and fewer people doing finance and more people making stuff. Yeah, yeah, well, that would certainly be better for all involved if they made better stuff.


Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, manufacturing used to be highly valued and in the United States. And these days it's not a it's it's often looked down upon, which I think is wrong.


You know. Well, I think that people are kind of learning that this, particularly because of this whole pandemic in this relationship that we have with China, that it there's a lot of value in making things into making things here.


Yes, somebody has got to do the real work. Yeah. You know, and, you know, like make making cards and honest days as an honest day's living. That's for sure. You know, making anything really or providing a valuable service, like providing, you know, getting containment, good information that these are all valuable things to do. You know, so, yeah, a ship should be more more of it. Did you have a moment where.


Is this something that this idea of getting rid of your material possessions is something that built up over time? Or did you have a moment of realization where you realized that? Yeah.


I've been thinking about it for a while. You know, part of it is like I like have bunch of houses, but I don't spend a lot of time in most of them. And. That doesn't seem like a good use of assets, like somebody could probably be enjoying those houses and get better use of them than me.


So once you have Gene Wilder's house. I do. That's me. That's awesome. Wow. Yes. That's exactly what you'd expect.


Did you request that the buyer not fuck it up? Yeah, that's a requirement. Oh, a requirement. That's a good requirement.


Yeah. Not in that case. In that house.


Yeah. It's pretty self last, but still Enerco. He's a legend. You want his soul. He'd want his essence.


Yeah. And the building is. And it's there. That's a real quick is a quirky house. Yeah.


What what makes you say there. Look what you get out of it. I mean, all the all the cabinets are like can't handmade. And they're like odd shapes and there's like doors to nowhere and it's strange like corridors and tunnels and real odd paintings on the wall. Yeah.


Did you ever live in it? It's very quirky. I did live in a briefly a. But why do you buy houses like if you own all these houses? Do you just get bored and go? I think I'd like to have that. Well, I had one house and then the Gene Wilder, our house right across the road from me from from my main house. And it was going to get there, was going to get sold and then torn down and turned into a big construction zone for three years.


And I was like, well, I think I'll buy it and preserve the spirit of gene water and not have a giant construction zone. And then the you know, this I started having like some privacy issues where, like, people were like, let's people like come to my house and, you know. So climbing over the walls and stuff fell hit man. So then I saw like, what, a house? Some of the houses around my house.


And then I thought at one point, well, you know, if be cool to to build a house. So I said I acquired some properties at the top of Samarra Road and which has got a great view. And it's like, okay, well, he's some bunch of sort of small older houses. They're gonna get torn down anyway. I was like, well, you know, like collect these, like, little little houses that I can build something, you know.


I don't know. Artists take like a you know. Dreamhouse type thing. What's a dream house for Elon Musk? Like some Tony Stark type shit? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. You've got to have that the door that opens up with the stealth helicopter and like anything, you know.


Yeah. For sure. Fuck. Yeah. Yeah. But the band was like, man, dourly. What does it really make sense for me to spend time designing and building a house and I'd be real, you know, ghetto like OCD on the little details and the design and. Or should I be allocating that time to getting us to Mars? She wrote to the letter. So you know what, like what's more important, Mars or a house like Mars?




Is that really how you think like that? It'd be better off planning on a trip to Mars or getting people to Mars?


Yeah, definitely. I mean that you can only do so many things, right? Right. So how you.


I don't know how you do what you do anyway. I don't understand how you can run ball with a boring company, Tesla, Space X, all these different things you're doing constantly. I just I don't understand. I mean, you explained last time you were here how you sort of allocate your time and how hectic it is. Insane. I still don't. The productivity is baffling. Just doesn't make sense. He can get so much done. Well, I think I do have high productivity.


But even with that, there's saw some upfront cost of time and allocating time to building a house, even if I was a really great house. Still is not a good use time relative to developing the rockets necessary to get us to Mars and helping solve sustainable energy. Space X and Tesla are by far the most amount of brain cycles. Boring company does not take like Western one percent of cycles. And then this neural link, which is. I don't mean it's like five percent.


And then five percent. That's good chunk. Good job. Yeah. We were talking about that last time when you were trying to figure out when it was actually going to go live, when it's actually going to be available. A testing on people right now. No, we're not testing people yet, but I think it won't be too long. I think we may be able to implant a neuro link in less than a year in a person. I think.


And when you do this, is there any test that you have to do before you do something like this to see what percentage of people's bodies are going to reject these things? Is it is it there is there a potential for rejection? It's a very low potential for rejection. I mean, I can think of it like people put in. You know, heart monitors and. You know, things for epileptic seizures and deep brain stimulation. I've seen, like, you know, artificial hips and knees and that kind of thing.


So probably. I mean, like, it's so it's well-known like what will cause rejection? What what will not. It's definitely harder when you've got something that is. Really sort of. Reading and writing neurons, that's that's generating a current pulse and reading compulsives. That's that's a little harder. That then that then a to a passive device, but it's still very doable. And yeah, that there that there are people who have primitive devices in their brains right now.


What kind of devices? I would like them. Deep brain stimulation is for I think for Parkinson's is has really changed people's lives in a big way, which is kind of remarkable because we're it kind of like zaps your brain. It's like kicking the TV type of thing. You think like Grant King, kicking the TV shouldn't work.


It does sometimes. Yeah. The old gold TV.


I did my grandpa, he says slap the top Krisher. Yeah. It would work sometimes. Yeah. So this deep brain stimulation, implanted devices in the brain that have changed people's lives for the better. Like fundamentally.


Well, let's talk about what you can talk about to what neuro link is, because the last time you were here really couldn't discuss it. And then there was a I guess, a press release, something that sort of and yeah, that happened quite a bit after last time you were here. So what exactly is it? How do you do what what happens if someone ultimately does get a neural link installed?


What will take place? Well, for version one of the device, it would be it basically implanted in your skull.


So but it would be sort of flush with your skull. So you basically take out a chunk of skull replace. Put the neuro like device in there. You put the the electrode. You didn't sort the electro threads very carefully into the brain. And then you, you know, stitch it up and and you wouldn't even know that somebody has it. And then and so then it can interface basically anywhere in anywhere your brain. So it could be something that, you know, helps cure, say, eyesight.


Like give you Roberto's your eyesight, even if you like Luscher optic nerve to everything. Really? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Hearing them say, I mean, pretty much anything that we're that that it could in principle fix almost anything that is wrong with the brain. And it could restore limb functionality. So if you've got an interface to the motor cortex and then an implant that's say that's like a microcontroller in near muscle groups, you could then create a sort of neural shunt that restores somebody who is a quadriplegic to full functionality like they can walk around normal.


Whoa. Yeah. So maybe slightly better, slightly better over time. Yes. You mean with future iterations like, you know, six million men. All the right things that would. But that's a great challenge.


Yeah. Yeah. Six billion dollars. Yeah. So the the hole would be small.


How big with the hole that you have to drill and then replace with this piece. It's only one hole.


Well yeah. The device working right now is about. So about an inch in diameter and your skull is pretty thick. By the way. So the skulls are not so sure. It might actually literally I mean, you're big if you're a big guy, your skull is actually fairly thick skull. It's like it's like seven to 14 millimeters.


Mm hmm. So I thought a couple inches fell half inch and a half inch thick skull. So, yeah.


So that that's a fair bit of like our our we've got quite a coconut going on. It's not it's not like some eggshell. Oh yeah. I believe you. So yeah. You basically imply otherwise.


And so you would be like a one inch square. One inch in diameter. Yeah. Like. So an inch circle. Like a circular.


Yeah. I think like a. Like a smartwatch or something or. Okay. Yeah. Okay.


So you take this one is dominant like ice fishing, right. Yeah. We go ice fishing. No but I'd like to. It's great. Yeah. It's really fun.


So you basically take an auger and you drill it take to the surface of the ice.


Yeah. And you create a small hole and you can dunk your line in there. So this is like that you're ice fishing on the top of your skull and then you cork it. Yeah.


And you replace that, say, one inch diameter piece of the skull with this euro like device. And that has a battery and a and Bluetooth and a inductive charger. And then, you know, then then you go to insert the electrodes. So the electrodes very carefully inserted with our robot that we developed that look very carefully putting in the electrodes and avoiding any veins or arteries. So it doesn't create trauma.


So through this one inch diameter device, electrodes be inserted and they will find their way like tiny wires, basically tiny wire somewhere, and they'll find their way to specific areas of the brain to stimulate.


Now, you literally put them where they're supposed to go. Oh, okay. Yeah. So how long were these wires be? I mean, they usually go in like, you know.


Depending on where it is like. Two or three millimeters. So they're just fine, the spots. Wow. And then at the end, they put the device in and that that gets that replaces the little piece of skull that was taken out. And then you you stitch up the the hole. And you separate it like a little scar. And that's it.


Well, this would be replaceable. Are reversible. Yes. Like, if someone can't take it away and I'm too smart, I can take it. Yeah, totally.


And what is the besides restoring limb function and eyesight and hearing which are all amazing. Are there any cognitive benefits that you anticipate from something like this?


Yeah, I mean, you could for sure. I mean, basically, it's a generalized sort of. Think for. For fixing any kind of brain injury. In principle, or if you've got like like severe epilepsy or something like that. It could it could just it gets just sort of stop the absolute epilepsy from occurring. It could detect it in real time and then fire a counterpose and stop the epilepsy. If. I mean, there is a whole range of brain injuries, people some he gets a stroke.


They could lose the ability to speak. That battle could also be fixed. So she could get stroke damage or if you lose, say, muscle control over part of your face or something like that, I think you eat. And then when when you get older, you tend to forget, like, you know, Alzheimer's or something like that, then you lose memory and that this could help you with, you know, restoring your memory. That kind of thing.


We're storing memory and what is happening. It's allowing it to do that. The wires, these small wires. Yes. Stimulating these areas of the brain. And then is it that the areas of the brain are there? They're losing some sort of electrical force? Like what? What is happening? Yeah. Yeah.


It's like it's like thing of it's like a bunch of circuits and there's some like circuits that are broken and we can fix those circuits that substitute for those circuit circuits.


And so a specific frequency will go through this. Yeah.


It's so specific in that it would is the process figuring out how much or how little has to be, how much these areas of the brain have to be juiced up. Yeah, I mean, they stole a lot of work to do, so when I say, you know, we've got a shot at probably putting it in person and, you know, within a year, I think that better. That's what that's exactly. I mean, I think we've we have a chance of putting input into one and having them having them be healthy and and restoring some functionality that they've lost.


The fear is that eventually you have to cut the whole top of someone's head off and put a new top shirt with a whole bunch of wires. If you want to get, you know, the real turbo charged version of the P 100 D of brain stimulation.


I mean, ultimately, if you if you want to go with full A.I. symbiosis, you'll probably want to do something like that.


Symbiotes is a scary word when it comes to A.I..


It's optional.


I would hope so. Yeah. It's just I mean, once you enjoy the Dr Manhattan lifestyle, once you once you become a God seems very, very unlikely.


You're gonna want to go back to being stupid again.


I mean, you literally could fundamentally change the way human beings interface with each other.


Yes. Yes. You wouldn't need to talk.


I'm so scared of that. But so excited about at the same time. Is that weird?


Yeah. I mean, the I think this is one of the past two. You know, I think like what forefoot like A.I. is getting better and better. So now let's assume it's sort of like a benign A.I. scenario. You mean in a benign scenario? We're kind of left behind. You know, we're we're not we're not along for the ride. We're just too dumb. Right. So. So how do you go along for the ride? Yeah.


So you can't beat them, join them.


So and we're already we're already a cyborg to some degree. Right. Because you've got your phone. You've got your laptop glasses. Yeah. Yeah. Got Ghidorah tracking devices.


And I mean we're today if your phone if you if you don't bring your phone along, it's like you have missing limb syndrome. It's like you feel like something's really, really missing.


So we're ready partly and partly are partly a cyborg or an A.I. symbiote, essentially. It's just that the data rate to the electronics is slow. So it's especially output like you're just gone with your thumbs. I like. What's your data rate? Maybe optimistically, 100 beds per second. That's being generous. And now the computer can communicate it like, you know, 100, 100 terabytes. So. So it's certainly, you know, get gigabits or a trivial this point.


So this is like, you know, basically your computer could do not do things a million times faster or you're at a certain point, it's like talk.


They like talking to a tree. OK, just boring. You talk to a jury. It's not very entertaining. So. So if you can solve that, the data rate issue and especially upset, but in part two, then you can improve the symbiosis that is already occurring between man or machine. So you can improve it in what? When you said you won't have to talk to each other anymore? We should joke around about that.


I've joked around about that a million times in this podcast that one day in the future, there's gonna come a time where you can read each other's minds and, well, you'll be able to interface with each other in some sort of a nonverbal, not non-physical way where you will transfer data back and forth to each other without having to actually use your mouth.


That noises. Exactly. So when you look what happens when you when, like you say, you've got some complex idea that you're trying to convey to somebody else. How do you do that? Well, your brain spends a lot of effort compressing a complex concept into words. And there's a there's little a lot of loss information loss that occurs when compressing a complex concept into words. When you say those words, those words with an interpreter, then they're decompressed by the person who is listening.


And they they will at best get a very incomplete understanding of what you're trying to convey. It's very difficult to convey a complex concept with precision because you've got compression. Decompression. You may not even have heard all the words correctly. And so communication is difficult. What we have here is a failure to communicate. Cool hand, Luke. Yes.


And there's a great movie. There's an interpretation factor, too, like you can choose to interpret certain series of words in different ways. And they're dependent upon tone, dependent upon social cues, even facial expressions, sarcasm. There's a lot of variables.


Sarcasm is difficult. Yes. Yeah.


And so when I'm one of things that I've said is like that, there could be potentially a universal language that's created through computers that particularly young kids would pick up very quickly. Like my kids do. Tick tock. And all this jazz and I don't know what they're doing. They just know how to do it and they know how to do it really quickly. I did learn really quick and they show me how to edit things.


And yeah, it's if you taught a child from first grade on how to use some new universal language mean essentially like a Rosetta Stone and something that's done with that interprets your thoughts and you can convey your thoughts with no room for interpretation, with clear, very clear where you know what a person is saying and you can tell them what you're saying.


And there's no need for noises, no need for mouth noises, no need for. Yes. These sort of accepted ways that we've sort of evolved to make sounds that we all agree we through our cultural dictionary and. Right. We agree or certain you could bypass all that. Yeah, we could still do it for it for fun. Sentimental reasons.


Right. Like campfires. Yeah, exactly. You don't need campfire or need to roast marshmallows with fun. Right. So. Yeah. Yeah, I think you would in principle, you would be able to communicate. Very quickly and with far more precision, ideas and language would. I'm not sure what would have interlanguage, but you could probably do it in a situation like this, that you would be able to just if we like the Matrix, you want to speak in a language, in a volume.


Right. That's why it was to download the program. Right. So at least for the first iterations, first few iterations would just be able to like.


I know that Google has their some of their pixel buds have the ability to interpret languages in real time. Yeah, you can hear it now. It will play things back to you and whatever language you choose. So to be something along those lines. Yeah. For the first few iterations. Well, the first few iterations are what I'm talking about, it's like in the limit over time, you know, with a lot of development. The first few iterations really in the first few versions, all we got we tried to is it's all about brain injuries.


So it's like, don't don't don't worry that there's not going to sneak up on you. There's this. This will take a while.


How many years? Before you go, I have to talk. If the if the development. Continues to accelerate. Then. Maybe like five years, five to 10 years. That's quick. That's really quick.


But it's not the best case scenario. No talking anymore. In five years, best case scenario tends to change. Well, like it.


I've always speculated that aliens could potentially be us in the future, because if you look at like the size their heads and the fact that they have very little muscle and then they don't use their mouth anymore, they was tiny, little slow. I mean, the archetypal an alien that you see like Close Encounters of the third kind.


They're like, if you went from like Australopithecus or ancient hominid to us, what's the difference? Less hair, less muscle, bigger head. And then just keep going. Thousand. A million, whatever you or five years, whatever.


Whatever happens when neural link goes on online and then we slowly start to adapt to this new way of being where we don't use our muscles anymore. We have this gigantic head.


We can talk without words. You can also. Save state. Save state, save state, save your brain state. That could save game in a video game. Wow. Like I give you one swap from Windows 95.


Well, I feel better than that. But yeah, I think we are Windows 95 right now from a patient perspective, probably. But yeah, I mean, you could save state and restore that state into a biological being if you if you wanted to in the future. In principle, it's like nothing like from a physics standpoint that prevents us. But you'd be a little different. But then you're also a little different when you wake up in the morning.


From yesterday. And you're a little different. In fact, if you say like you five years ago versus you, today is quite a big difference. Yes. So you'll be substantially you. I mean, you'd be you'd suddenly think you're you.


But the idea of saving yourself and then transforming that into some sort of a biological state like you can hang out with 30 year old you. I mean, the possibilities are endless. It's so weird. I mean, do you think think like how you're foreign? Can you can record videos on your phone? Like there's no way you could remember a video, right. As accurately as your phone or a camera you could.


So if you've got it, you know, some some, you know, version 10, your lank, whatever, and far in the future, you could you could Rehmat, you could recall everything.


But just like it's a movie because it including all the entire sensory experience, emotions, everything, everything, everything. And play it back and you be like, you should edit it.


Edit it. Yeah. So you can change your past. You could change. What do you think was your past? Yeah, well, so if you had this kind of thing right now. Could be a replayed memory. It could be, yeah, it may be. What's the odds of this being a replayed memory? Fifty guests. More than 50 percent. There's no way to assign a probability with accuracy here. Right. But roughly. If you'd just had a just gut instinct.


Well, I don't have a neuro link in my brain, so I say right now, zero percent. But at the point at which you do have in your link, then it rises above zero percent. Mm hmm. The idea that we're experiencing some sort of a preserved memory is that even though it's still the same, it's not comforting. Right. For some reason, when people talk about simulation theory, they talk about the potential for this currently being a simulation.


It even though your life might be wonderful, you might be in love, you might love your career, you might have great friends.


But it's not comforting to know that this experience somehow or another doesn't exist in a material form that can knock on Israel to fill Israel.


But. But if it's not. But the idea that it's not is for some strange reason, disconcerting.


What? Yeah, I'm sure it should be disconcerting because then if this is not real, what is right. But but, you know, there's the old sort of thought experiment of like, how do you know you're not a brain in a VAT? You know, we're now here. Here's the thing. You are a brain in a vat then that faddishness skull. Yes. And everything you see, feel, hear everything. All your senses are are electrical signals.


Everything. Everything. Is an electrical signal to to a brain and about whether that is Rosko at all, your hormones, all your neurotransmitters, all these things are drugs. Adrenalin's a drug, dopamine's a drug, you're a drug factory.


You're constantly changing your state with love and oxytocin and beauty to changes your state. Great music changed your state.


Absolutely. And yet here's another sort of interesting idea, which is, could you say like where did consciousness arise? Well, assuming you believe the belief in physics, which appears to be true, then, you know, the universe started off as basically quarks, leptons and quickly became hydrogen and helium. Lithium, like basically almost the periodic table of it seemed like mostly hydrogen, basically. And then and then over a long period of time. Thirteen point eight billion years later, that hydrogen became sentiment.


So where along the way? Did contest winners in the consciousness? What's the line of consciousness and not consciousness? Right between hydrogen in here. Right. When do we call it? When do we call it consciousness? I was watching a video today that we played on a podcast earlier of a monkey riding a motorcycle down the street, jumps off the motorcycle and tries to steal a baby.


Yeah. So that one arrow. What is that monkey conscious? It seems like it is.


It seems like it had a plan. It was riding a fucking motorcycle and the jumped off the motorcycle, tried to steal a baby.


Seemed pretty, the one that the striped baby down the street pretty far. Yeah, yeah, seems pretty conscious. There's definitely some degree of consciousness there. Yeah. It's not like it's not a worm. It's what seems to be on another level. Yeah. And it's going to keep going and. That that's the real concern. When when people think about the potential future versions of human beings, especially when you consider symbiotic relationship to artificial intelligence, it will be unrecognizable, that one day will be so far removed from what this is.


We'll look back on this the way we look back now. You know, simple, simple organisms that we evolved from. And then it won't be that far in the future that we do have this this view back. Well, I hope consciousness propagates into the future and gets more and more sophisticated and complex. And that understands the. Questions to ask about the universe. Do you think that's the case as it is a human being as yourself? You're clearly trying to make conscious decisions to be a better version of you.


Right. This is the idea of like getting ready your possessions and realizing that you're trying to like, I don't like this. I will try to improve this. I will try to do a better version of the way I interface with reality. That this is always the way things are. If you're if you're moving in some sort of a direction where you're trying to improve things, you're always going to move into this new place.


We look back on the old place, and I was doing it wrong back then. So this is an accelerated version of that. Yes, super accelerated version that. I mean, you don't always improve, but you can aspire to improve. You can aspire to be less wrong. Yeah. Like, I think it good that tools of physics are very powerful, like just assume you're wrong in your ass. Your goal is to be less wrong. I don't think you're going to succeed everyday and being that's wrong.


But, you know, if you're going to succeed in being less wrong most the time, you're doing great. That's a great way of putting it aspire to be less wrong.


But then when, you know, people look back in nostalgia about simpler times, there's that, too. It's very romantic and exciting to look back on. Campfires. Because they'll have a campfire. Yes. Yeah. But we appreciate it when you're super nerd, when you connected to the grid. And you have some skullcap in place of the top of your head. It's interfacing with the international language that the rest the universe now enjoys. Communication with people.


We're dead sure. I think so. Yeah, I like that part. I'm just worried. I mean, everyone's always scared of change, but I'm scared of this monumental change where we won't we won't talk anymore. I mean, that thing will communicate. Yes.


But that's there's something about there's something about the beauty of the crudeness of language where when it's done eloquently, it's it's it's satisfying and it hits us in some sort of a visceral way, like the person nailed it.


I love that they nailed it like that.


It's so hard to capture a real thought and convey it in a way is articulate way to make someone excel. You read a quote, a great quote by a wise person.


Makes you excited that their mind figured something out. Put the words together in a right way. It makes your brain pop like.


Oh, yes, yeah, yes.


Clever compression of a concept.


Yeah. And a feeling. But the fact that a human did it to. Absolutely. Do you think that it'll be like electronic music.


Like people won't appreciate it. Like they appreciate the slide guitar.


I like electronic music.


I do too. While you make it. I know you like it now. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I hope the future is more fun and interesting and we should try to make that way. I hope it's more fun. Interesting, too. Yeah, I just you know, I just hope we don't lose anything along the way. We may lose a little, but hopefully we gain more than lose. Yeah. That's the thing. Right.


Gaining more than we lose something that makes us interesting is that we're so flawed software. Sure.


I mean, you look at civilization through the ages. Post them. You know, they rose and fell. Yeah. And I do think the globalization that we have at these sort of like the the mean sphere is there's there's not enough isolation between countries or regions. It's like if you get up if there's a mind virus. That mind virus can infect too much of the world. You know, like, I actually sort of sympathize with the anti globalization people because it's like, man, we don't ever want to everywhere.


It'll be the same for sure. And and then we we need some kind of like mind. Viral immunity. Mm hmm. So that that's concerning.


Mind viral immunity, meaning that once something like neural link gets established, the real concern is something that I mean, you said it's Bluetooth. Right. Or some future version of that. The idea is that something could possibly get into it.


Fuck it up. No, I'm talking about like somebody that some cock-eyed got concept that. Let's hope that happens. Right. Right now. Mm hmm. We know this virus viruses in embedded chips, right? Like people have, they've embedded chips and then acquired viruses that will wait.


I'm told by my version I'm talking about like a concept that infects people's minds. Oh, OK. OK. Like cult thinking or. Yeah. Some sort of fundamentalism.


Yeah. Wrong headed idea that. Yes. Goes viral in a in an idea sense.


Well, that is that that is a problem, too, right, if someone can manipulate that technology to make something appear logical or rational. Yeah, yeah, that would that would that be an issue, too, with this is a very have versus have not issue, right, once this thing. Is this really does. I mean, initially, it's going to help people with it with injuries. But you said ultimately it could lead to this spectacular cognitive change.


Yes. But the people that first get it should have us a massive advantage over people that don't have it yet.


Well, I mean, the kind of thing where your productivity would improve dramatically, maybe by a factor of 10 with it. So you could definitely just. You know, I don't take out a loan and do it and earn the money back real fast. Yes, you were smart.


But in a capitalist society, you know, you could. It seems like you could really get so far ahead that before everybody else could afford this thing and link up and get connected as well. He'd be so far ahead they could never catch you.


Is that a concern?


Well, I think the I'm not a super rehears concern. I mean, there are huge differences in cognitive ability and resources already. Yeah. You can think of a corporation as like a cybernetic collective that's far smarter than an individual. Like, I can personally build like a whole rocket and the engines and launch it and everything. That's impossible. But, you know, we have eight thousand people at space X and Y. Piecing it out to different people and using like computers and machines and stuff, we can make lots of rockets launched into orbit, dock with the space station.


That kind of thing, you know? So that already exists where there's, you know, where there's a gate. Corporations are vastly more capable than an individual. But the the. You know, like we should be, I think, less concerned about like Rutt relative. Capabilities between people and more like. Having a guy be vastly beyond us and these coupled from human will. Decouple from human. So this is the if you can't beat them, join them.


Yeah. I mean, do you feel like it's inevitable? Like a high sentient A.I. is essentially inevitable. Supercenter and. Look beyond a level that's difficult to understand. An impossible task, probably. And somehow or another us. You so it's almost like. It's a requirement for survival to achieve some sort of a symbiotic existence with a.


It's not a requirement. It's just. If you if you want to be along for the ride. Other than you need to do some kind of symbiosis so that the way your brain works right now, you've got like the animal brain, reptile brain.


Listen for organs. It's like the limbic system, basically. And you've got the cortex. Now, the brain purists will argue with this definition, but essentially you've got the primitive brain and you've got the the sort of. Smart brain or the brain that's capable of planning and understanding concepts and different, difficult, you know, things that a monkey can understand. Now, the cortex is much, much smarter than your limbic system. Nonetheless, they work together well.


So I haven't met anyone who wants to delete the limbic system or the cortex. The people are quite happy having both. So you can think about this as being like the computer or the eye as it is like a third layer or a tertiary layer. So that is like that could be symbiotic with the cortex. We much smarter than the cortex, but you essentially have three layers and you actually have that right now. Your phone is capable of things and your computer is capable things that your brain is definitely not storing.


Terabytes of information perfectly. Doing incredible calculations that, you know, we couldn't even come close to doing. You have that with your computer. It's just like I said, the data rate is slow. The connection is weak. Why is it so disconcerting or why is it why does it not give me comfort to think about it like when I think about a symbiotic connection to A.I.?


I always think of this cold, emotionless sort of thing that we will become. It's that bad way to look at it. I think that's OK, that's not quick. That's not I would be like said, you already are. Yes. Symbiotic with A.I. or computers, phones, computers, laptops. Yeah. And there's this quite a bit of A.I. going on, you know, so artificial neural nets, increasingly neural nets are. Sort of taking over from regular programming.


More and more. So you are connected. You know, if you use Google Voice or Alexa or one of those things, it's using a neural net to decode your speech and try to ascertain what you're saying. You know, if you're trying to image recognition or improve the quality of photograph, it's. It's using the neural nets the best way to do that. So. You are already sort of sort of a cybernetic symbiote. It like said that he was just a question of your data rate communications speed between your phone and your brain is slow.


When do you think you're going to do it? How long will you wait? Um. Once it starts becoming available. Yeah. If it works, I'll do it to. Right away. I mean, let's make sure it works. How do we make sure it works?


We try and, um, prisoners like, what do you do? No, no. You take rapists. Cut holes in your head.


Well, like I said, if somebody got a serious brain injury. Right. And there, you know, people have like very severe brain injuries. And then you can fix those those brain injuries. And. You know, then you prove out that it works and you expect all bluff, expand and make more and more brain injuries. So more, more. And then suddenly a certain age, we all are going to get Alzheimer's. We're all gonna get senile.


And then, you know, moms forget the names, their kids and that kind of thing. And so, you know, it's like you said, okay, well, you know, this word later. Remember your names, your kids and and and have a normal a much more normal life where you you you were able to function much later in life. So I think that. So essentially, there were almost everyone would find a need at some point if you get old enough to use your neuro link.


And and then it's like, okay, so we can improve the functionality and improve the implications of communication speed. So then you will not have to use your thumbs to communicate with computer.


Do you ever sit down, extrapolate? Do you ever sit down and think about. All the different iterations of this and what this eventually leads to. Yeah, I mean, I think a sure thing about luck. There's. Like I said, this is not something it's going to sneak up on you. You know, there's like getting FDA approval for this stuff. It's not like overnight, you know. And. There's this I mean, we probably feel like version 10 or something before.


It would realistically be. You know, you're a human A.I. symbiote situation. It says, is it you'll see it coming. You know, you see it coming, but what do you think it's going to be like when you sit when you're alone? If you have free time and if you have free time.


But if you just sit down and think about this iteration the next onward, keep going and you drag it out with improvements along the way in leaps and bounds and technological innovations and. Where do you see it? What are we gonna be like when 20, 25 years from now, what are we gonna be? Well, suing civilization is still around. It's looking fragile right now. I think we I think we can have a. In 25 years polysemy.


I would think there could be a whole brain interface. A whole brain interface, so pretty close. How does how do you define what you mean by whole brain interface? They got almost all the neurons. Are connected to. You're these sort of a extension of yourself. If you want a by extension of yourself. What does that mean to you when you say by extension of yourself? Well, you said you already have a computer extension of yourself in your phone.


You know, computers and stuff, so. And now online, it's like somebody dies. There's this like an online ghost that they're they're still there. Online stuff. Yeah, it's life.


That's a good way to put it. He's weird when you read someone's tweets after they're dead. Yeah. Yeah. Instagram and their stories and. Yeah, whatever. Facebook.


So, you know, that's a great way. It's like an online ghost.


That's very accurate. Yeah. So. Yes. So that there's. It would just be that that more of you would be in the cloud, I guess, than in your buddy. Or that more of you. Now we see civilisation's fragile. Do you mean because of this Kovik 19 shit that's going on right now? Well, I had never heard of it, is this thing.


It's like some people just get a car. You talk about other people. It gets much worse.


Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this certainly has taken over the mindspace of the world to a degree that is quite shocking.


Yeah, well, out of nowhere. That's what's crazy is like you go back to November. Nothing. Now, here we are. December, January, February, March, April, May. Six months. Totally different world. So from nothing to everything's locked down, there's so much conflicting information and conflicting opinions about how to proceed. What. What has happened? You find things where there was a meat packing plant, I believe, in Missouri, where 300 plus people were asymptomatic, tested positive, rea symptomatic.


And then in other places, it just ravages entire communities and kills people. And it's it's so weird. It did almost appears on the outside. Like, if you didn't know any better, you'd be like, what? It seems like there's a bunch of different viruses. Doesn't seem like it's the same thing or has a bunch of different reactions to the biological variety of people. Yeah. I mean, I kind of saw this whole thing play out in China before it played out in the U.S.


, so it's kind of like watching the same movie again. But in English, huh? So. Yeah. I think the baby, the mortality rate is as much less than what is then what say the World Health Organization said it was, it's much, much less. It's probably an order of magnitude less.


Well, it seems to be very deadly to very specific kinds of people and people with specific problems. Yeah, I mean, if you if you're you can look at the mortality statistics, you know, by age and whether they have come what have come of it, it is like do they have like basically existing conditions? And by age and. You know, if you're. Below 60 and and have no serious health issues. The probability of death is extremely low.


It's not zero, but it's extremely low.


They didn't think that this was the case, though. When they first started to lock down the country, do you think that it's a situation where once they proceed in a certain way, it's very difficult to correct course.


That's that smells like people really wanted a panic. They were quite, quite crazy.


But in some places, a panic is deserved. Right.


Look, if you are in the ICU in Manhattan and people are dying left and right and everyone's on integrators, and it's it seems like when you see all these people on ventilators and so many of them are dying and you see these nurses are dying and doctors are getting sick in some places. That fear is justified. But then in other places. You're reading these stories about hospitals that are essentially half empty. They're they're having to furlough doctors, nurses, because there's no work for them.


Most of the hospitals in the United States right now, half empty or in some cases there are 30 percent capacity.


And is this because they've decided to forgo elective procedures and normal things that people would have to go to the hospital for?


Yes, I mean, we're not talking about just some of these electoral procedures are quite important. Yeah, it's like you have a battle hardened disease, Yashar, and you need a triple bypass.


It's like sort of elective. But if you don't get it done in time, it's you're going to die. Yeah, it's electives were elective. It's not like, hey, I want to isn't like plastic surgery is like it's more like like my my hip is an extreme pain because my my hips blown out or my knee and I don't want to go to the hospital, I can't go to the hospital. Two people in extreme pain feel I need a kidney.


You know, I feel like I have quite serious issues that are choosing not to go out of fear. So I think it's it's a problem. It's not good.


It seems like the state of public perception is shifting. It is like people are taking some deep breaths and relaxing. And because of the statistics of I mean, and essentially across the board, it's being recognized that it's not as fatal as we thought it was. Still dangerous, still worse than the flu, but not as bad as we thought or we feared it could be.


Objectively, the mortality is much lower. Like at least a factor of 10 may, maybe a factor of 50 lower than initially thought. Do you think that the current way we're handling this, the social distancing, the masks, the locking down, is it does this make sense? Is it adequate or do you think that we should move back to at least closer to where we used to be?


Well, I think proper hygiene is a good thing no matter. Yes, you know, wash your hands and you know, and if you're if you're coughing, stay home or wear a mask. Yes. Not good. You could do that in Japan. That's like normal. Yeah. If you're if you're ill, you you wear a face mask and you don't cough on people. I think that that would be a great thing to turn it off in general throughout the world.


Washing your hands is also good.


Well, that's the speculation why men get it more than women, because men are disgusting. We don't want it disgusting. It's true. It's true. Yeah, right. Mahlman in this room, bro. Gross ass. Go to the restroom because it is so gross.


My daughter, my nine year old daughter yells at me, just did you wash your hands? She makes me go back and wash my hands. She's right. Nine years of a nine year old boy.


Do you think you care? No, I wouldn't give a fuck if I wash my hands, too.


So, yeah, I think that. Does this apply some silver linings here than an improved, you know, hygiene.


Yeah. And an awareness of potential. Yes.


And I think this has shaken up the the system. The system was like somewhat moribund with Ludlow's layers of bureaucracy. And I think that if you have cut through so much bureaucracy and if we you know, at some point there probably won't be a pandemic with with a with a high mortality rate. You know, it was a debate about like what's high. But I mean, like some of that is killing a lot of 20 year olds. Let's say, like it's.


Yeah, if you had, like, Ebola type out mortality, Spanish flu something.


Yeah. Ximenes systems of healthy people. Yeah.


Yeah, yeah. But it's a Yeah. Like, like killing large numbers of young healthy people that that's, you know, defined find that is like a high mortality then that this is at least practice for something like that. And I think there's there's no way, given the matter a matter of time, that there will be eventually some some such pandemic.


Do you think that in a sense, the one good thing that we might get out of this is the realization that this is a potential reality, that we got lucky in the sense I mean, people that didn't get lucky and died, of course, I'm not disrespecting their death and their loss. But I'm saying overall, as as a culture, as a community, as a human race, as a community, this is not as bad as it could have been.


This is a good dry run for us to do. Appreciate that. We need far more resources dedicated towards understanding these diseases, what to do in the case of pandemic and much more money that goes to funding treatments and and some preventative measures. Yeah, absolutely. And I think I think there's a good chance, so it's highly likely, I think coming out of this, that we will develop vaccines that we didn't have before. For coronaviruses and other other viruses and and possibly cures for these.


And our understanding of viruses of this nature is improved dramatically because of the attention that is received. So there's definitely some, you know, a lot of silver linings here. And potentially, if we act correctly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a I think there will be some massive line here no matter what. Hopefully it could be more because of lighting and less. Yeah. So, yeah, this is this is just like kind of like a practice run for something that had a potential might in the future have a serious like a really high mortality rate.


And we kind of got to go through this with without without it being something that kills, you know, vast numbers of young, healthy people.


Yeah. When you made a series of tweets recently. Oh, you know, I don't remember the exact wording, but essentially we're saying Free America now. Let's think about doing that.


Is it. Thank you.


But the the you know, what was it? How much do you pay attention to the response to that stuff? And what was the response like I did today? Why? Hey, you want to fuck you doing. Did anybody pull your source?


Who does that? Who gets to do that? Do you?


Well, I mean, I certainly get that. There's no shortage and feedback on Twitter. Oh yeah. Twitter. Yeah, but I don't read that.


Do you read it. Warzone. You do sometimes though, right. You do read it. Yeah.


We have scroll through the comments. Thanks. As meme wars. Yeah. I mean people like you are good and it's something I enjoy about that.


Just the. There's something about the. The freedom of expression that comes from all these people that do attack you. It's like, well, they if there was no vulnerability whatsoever, they wouldn't attack you. And it's like there's something about these. Millions and millions of perspectives that you have to you have to appreciate, even if he comes your way.


Even if the shit storm hits you in the face. You got to appreciate.


Wow, how amazing is it that all these people do have the ability to express themselves? You don't necessarily want to be there when the shit hits you. You might want to get out of the way in anticipation of the shitstorm. But the fact that so many people have the ability to reach out and I think it's in a lot of ways it's I wouldn't say a misused resource, but it's like giving monkeys guns. They just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk.


They start gunning down things that are in front of them without any realization of what they're doing. They have a rock. They see a window. They throw it.


Look at that. I got you on mad.


Look at that. This guy got mad at me. This this. I fucking took this person down on Twitter. I got this lady fired.


Oh, the fuckin business is going under because the Twitter wars. It seems like there's something about it that's so new found thing that I want to say abuse. But just I want to say that it's almost like, you know, you hit the button and things blow up. You're like, wow, this is what else can we blow up?


Juror. I mean, I've been in the Twitter war zone for a while here. It was you know, it takes a lot to faze me at this point. You know, that's going to.


Right. Like you develop a thick skin.


Yeah. You can't take it personally. I feel like. No, actually, no. You know, like. Yeah. It's it's it's just like, you know, it's like if you're if you're fighting a war and there's like some opposing soldier that that shoots shoots at you. It's not like they hate you. They don't even know you. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So they would like that. Like they're firing bullets or whatever, but then.


No, you don't personally.


There's something interesting about it too. It's like. Like when you write something in, you know, 280 characters and they write something into it, it's such a crude way. It's like, you know, someone saying sending opposing smoke signals.


They refute your smoke signals.


It's like it's so crude. And especially when you're talking about something like Neuro Link.


He's talking about some future potential where you're gonna be able to express pure thoughts that get get conveyed through some sort of a universal language with no ambiguity whatsoever versus. You know, tweets. Will they always be some ambiguity? But no tweets or it's hard. Maybe they should be like a sarcasm flag or something. Right, right. Or I'm just kidding or whatever, you know, like that.


You know, it's like it's would take away some of the fun from people that know it's sarcasm. Like if everybody knew that The Onion wasn't.


If you sent people articles. Yeah. It is something about someone getting angry and an Onion article.


Wow. That's amazing. You know. I mean, what? They don't realize what it is. There's something fun about that for everybody else.


Yeah. It's pretty great. What might be the best news source?


Do you know Titania McGrath is. Hilarious. It's Andrew Boyle. He's a British fellow. Pretty brilliant guy who's been on the podcast before, and he has this fictional character, this pseudonym to Tania McGrath, who's like this all the ultimate social justice warrior.


It's just it's it's like I have like a female avatar.


She has a female avatar that's actually a computer conglomeration of a bunch of faces. OK, it's not really one person. So if one person can't be a victim and be angry that he's sort of combined these faces to make this one perfect social justice more OK.


But the thing I I recognized it early on before I met him that this was parody.


This is this is just fun. And then I love reading the people that don't recognize that they get angry and they don't really, really.


There's a lot of people that just get really furious about some of the some fun to that. There's some fun to the not picking up on the true nature of the signal.


I find Twitter quite engaging. How do you have the time? Why? I mean, it's like. Five minutes every couple hours type thing. So, like I'm sitting on an all day, even five minutes every couple hours. If those are bad five minutes, they might be bouncing around your head for the next 30.


Yeah, you have to, you know, like I said, take a certain amount of distance from it, read this and like, OK, it's bullets being fired by an opposing army. You don't like it. It's not like they they like it. It's not like they know you. It's like, you know, don't take it personally.


Did you feel the same way when when CNN had that stupid shit about ventilator's with you.


I found that both confusing and the. Yeah. I was knowing it was annoying. Was right.


It was also annoying as a person who reads CNN and wants to think of them as a responsible conveyer of the facts.


I would like to think that. Yeah. I don't think CNN is that I think used to be used to be. What you he thinks the best source of just like information out there. That's a good question. You know, like let's say just like average citizen trying to just get the facts, you know, figure out what's going on. Like, you know, how to live your life. And, you know, just looking for what what's going on in the world, that it's hard to find something that isn't, you know.


Yeah, that's that's good, yeah. You know that, you know, not not not trying to push some partisan angle. Not trying to not not doing sloppy reporting and just aim it for the most number of clicks and trying to maximize ad dollars and that kind of thing. Yeah. You just trying to figure out what's going on. It's like I'm hard pressed. Where do you go?


I don't know. I don't think there's any pure form. I'm my favorite. Places are The New York Times and the L.A. Times. And I don't trust them 100 percent because also there's individuals that are writing these stories. Exactly. And that's seems to be the problems, these individual biases in these individual. There's purposely distorted perceptions. And then there's Egnar Lee reported facts.


And there's so many variables. And you've got to put everything through this filter of. Whereas this person coming from. Do they have political biases that they have social biases? Do they are they are they upset because of their own shortcomings? And they. Are they projecting this into the story? Sure. It's so hard. Yeah.


I think like maybe just trying to find individual reporters that you think are good and. Yeah. Kind of falling dam as opposed to publication.


I go with what Matt Taibbi says. Okay. I trust him more than anybody. All right. Matt Taibbi is onto something. I just. He's as far as investigative reporters in particular, the way he reported the savings and loan crisis, the way he reports everything.


I just I just listen to him above most above. He's my go to guy. I'll check it out. It's his Rolling Stones articles. Or is this stuff on the savings and loan crisis? Just like what in the fuck? Sure. You know, and he wasn't you know, he's an economist by any stretch of the imagination. So he had a really sort of deeply embed himself in that world to try to understand it and to be able to report on it.


It was also with a humorous flair. Now, that's nice.


Yeah. There's not that many of them. There's it's hard and not a location where like we are. No bullshit. So, you know, we are no bullshit, like the one place where you can say this is what we know, this what we don't know.


This what we think not this person is wrong. And here's why.


Like, oh, God damn it. You know, I can't. You don't know.


There's a lot of stuff that is open to interpretation. Yeah.


This this particular coronavirus issue that we're dealing with right now seems to be a great illuminator of that very fact is that there's so much data and there's this so there's so much as open to interpret.


There's so many thing because it's all happening in real time. Right. And like particularly right now in California, we're in stage two tomorrow or Friday, two days from now. Stage two, retail stores opening up. Things are changing, too.


Like when no one knows the correct process that needs to take place to save the most amount of lives, but yet ensure that are our culture and that ah ah ah economy survives.


It's a lot of speculation and guessing, but if you go to certain places, they'll tell you we know why. And we know this. And we know it's hard.


Yeah. I mean, in general, I think that's like we should be concerned about anything that's a massive infringement on our civil liberties. Civil liberties. Yes. You know, so it's like you got to put a lot of weight on that. People, like a lot of people died. You know, when independents put country and fight for the democracy that we have. And, you know, we should treasure that and not and not give up our liberties too easily.


I think we've been I think we probably do that, actually.


So I'd like what you said when you said that it should be a choice and that to require people to stay home, require people to not go to work requite and to to arrest people for trying to make a living. This all seems wrong. And I think it's a wrong approach.


It's a it's a you're it's an infantile ization of the society. Dad is going to tell you what to do.


Fundamentally a violation of the Constitution. Yes. Freedom of assembly. And, you know, it's just. I mean, I think these things stand up in court. Really, the arresting people for protesting. Because they're protesting and violating social distancing and these mandates that tell people that they have to stay home. Yeah.


This is or this would definitely not stand up if the Supreme Court here. I mean, it's obviously a complete violation, right?


Yeah. And again, this is not in any way disrespecting the people who have died from this disease. That's certainly a real thing to think of.


Yeah. I mean, it's it just should be. If if you're if you're at risk, you should not be compelled to leave your house. Right. Or leave a place of safety. But you should also not be if if you're not at risk or if you are at risk and you wish to take a risk with your life, you should have the right to do that.


And it seems like at this point in time particularly, are resources to be best served protecting the people that are at risk versus penalizing the people that are not at high risk for living their life the way they did, particularly having a career and making a living and feeding your family, paying your bills, keeping your store open, keeping restaurant open.


Yes. I mean, this does a strong a strong downside to this. Yeah. So. Yeah, I just believe, like if this is a free country, you should be allowed to do what you want as long as it does not endanger others.


But that's the thing. Right. People, this is the argument they will bring up like you are endangering others. You should stay home for the people that you even if you're fine, even if you know you're gonna be OK.


There's certain people that will not be OK because of your actions. They might get exposed to this thing that we don't have a vaccine for. We don't have universally accepted treatment for. And then we need to there's there's there's two arguments right there. One argument is we need to keep going, protect the weak, protect the sick. But let's open up the economy. The other argument is stop placing money over human lives and let's shelter in place until we come up with some sort of a decision.


And let's figure out some way to develop some sort of a universal income, universal basic income plan or something like that to feed people during the during this time. Well, yes, transition. I think there's a.


Yeah. Yeah, I said, yeah. Yeah. My pay is if if if somebody wants stay home or stay home, I'd say it's it doesn't wanna stay home. Should not be compelled to stay home. That's my opinion. Do you think if somebody doesn't like that? Well, that's my opinion. So the now. Yeah. This notion, though, that, you know, you can just sort of sent checks out everybody and things we find is not true, obviously, that there's some we will have this absurd, like view that the economy is like some magic horn of plenty like it.


It just makes stuff, stuff, you know, whatever. It just there's a magic water plenty. And the goods and services, they just come from this magic wand appointee. And then if, like, somebody has more stuff than somebody else's because they took more from this magic water, plenty. Now, let me just break it to the fools out there. If you don't make stuff, there's no stuff. Yeah, so if you don't make the food, if you don't process the food, you know, transport the food.


And what the weather know, medical treatment, you're getting your teeth fixed. There's no stuff. They would become detached from reality. You can't just legislate money and set and solve these things if you don't make stuff. There is no stuff. Obviously. We'll run out of the stores, we ran out of the. The hold, the machine just grinds to a halt. But the initial thought on this virus, the real fear was that this was going to kill hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people instantaneously in this country.


It was going to do it very quickly if we didn't hunker down. We didn't shelter in place if we didn't quarantine ourselves or locked down. Do you think that the initial thought was a good idea based on the perception that this was going to be far more deadly than it turned out to be? Maybe. I think briefly, briefly, briefly. But I think if you know any any kind of like sensible examination of what happened in China would lead to a conclusion that that was obviously not gonna occur.


This this fires were treated in one. There's like a hundred thousand people a day living on it. So it it it, uh, it went everywhere very fast. Throughout throughout China, throughout the rest of world and. The fatality rate was was low. Do you think, though, it's difficult to appreciate.


It's it's difficult to filter what the information is coming out of China to to accurately really get a real true representation of what happened.


The propaganda machine is very strong. Sure. What? Well, the World Health Organization appears to have been complicit with a lot of their propaganda.


The thing is that American companies have massive supply chains in China. Why can't Tesla, for example, we have hundreds of suppliers like Tier one, two, three, four suppliers throughout throughout China. So we know if they are able to make stuff or not. We know if they if they have issues or not, then they had there. China is back back at full steam. And until many pretty much every U.S. company has some significance as far as I'm trying to see, you know.


You know, if they're able to, you know. Provide things or not? Or if there's, you know. High mortality rate like Tesla has 7000 people in China. So. Zero people died. Mm hmm. Sarah. OK, so that that's a real statistic. That's coming from. Yeah, yeah. You know, as people, yeah, we literally we were in peril.


Do you think there's a danger of this, like the same folks are there.


So where do you think there's a danger of politicizing this? Whereas becomes like opening up the country is Donald Trump's. It's his goal. It's his.


And then then anything he does is sort of there's there's people that are going to oppose it and come up with some reasons why he's wrong, particularly in this climate.


Whereas as we're leading up November and, you know, the 2020 elections, do you think that this is a real danger in terms of the public's perception that Trump wants to open it up so the knee jerk oppose it because they oppose Trump? I think there has been some plot. This has been politicized. You know, both directions, really. So it's Whicher, which is not great. Yeah. But like I said, separate apart from that, I think there's the question of like, you know, we're a civil civil liberties fit in this picture, you know?


Yeah. And what what what can the government make you do? What can they make you not do? And what what's what's OK. Right. And, uh. Yeah, I think we went too far. Do you think it's one of those things where once we've gone in a certain direction, it's very difficult to make a correction, make an adjustment to realize like, OK, we thought it was one thing. It's not it's not good, but it's not what we thought it was going to.


It's not what we feared. So let's let's back up and reconsider and let's do this publicly and say we were acting based on the information that we had initially. That information appears to be faulty. And here's how we move forward while protecting civil liberties, while protecting what essentially this country is founded on, which is a very agreed upon amount of freedom that we respect and appreciate.


Absolutely. Well, I think we're we're rapidly moving towards opening up the country. It's going to happen extremely fast over the next few weeks. So, yeah. So it's I mean, are we helpful just to add from an informational level is when reporting sort of covered cases to separate out diagnosed with covered versus had covered like symptoms? Yes. Because the list of of symptoms that could be covered at this point is like a mile long. So it's like a heart to if you're ill at all.


It's like you could be covered. So just just to give you a better information. Definitely diagnosed with covered or had covered like symptoms. We're conflating those two. So that one that it looks bigger than it is then if somebody dies, is Wisk was covered a a primary cause of death or not. I mean, if you I mean if somebody has covered gets eaten by a shark, we find their arm, their arm has covered, it's going to get recorded as a cover death.


Is that real? Not basically not that bad.


But heart attacks, strokes get hit by a cancer.


If you get hit by a bus, could go to the park or the hospital and die. And they find that you have covered you will be recorded as covered.


Why would they do that, though?


Well, right now that. So, you know, the road is hell is the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I mean, mostly paid with bad intentions. But there is, you know, some good intentions waving signs in there, too. And the the the stimulus bill that was intended to help with hospitals that were being overrun with with with code patients created an incentive to record something as good as kov it. That is difficult to say no to, especially if your hospital is going bankrupt for lack of other patients.


So the hospitals that are in a bind right now that there's a bunch hospitals are they're furloughing doctors, as you were mentioning there. You know, there are hospitals half full. You're it's hard, hard to make ends meet. So now you've got like, you know, I just check this box. I get eight thousand dollars for one ventilator for five minutes. I get thirty nine thousand dollars. Or I'm going to fire some doctors. So what's the what's that?


This is a tough moral quandary where you can do. That's the situation we have no. What what's the way out of this? What do you think is like if if you had the president's ear or if people wanted to just listen to you openly, what do you think is the way out of this?


Let's just clear up the data. Clear up the data. So I said let's make sure we record is covered only if it is somebody's has been tested, has received a false positive Kovar test, not if they simply have symptoms, one of like a hundred symptoms. And then if if it is a cover dath, it must be separate. It was this was covered a primary primary reason for death, or did they also have stage three cancer or heart disease emphysema and got hit by bus and had covered.


You have read all this stuff about on about them diagnosing people as a covert death despite other variables.


This is not a this is not a this is not a question. This is what is occurring. And where are you reading this from? Where are you getting this from? The public health. Health officials have literally said this is not this is not a question mark.


Right. But this is never this is unprecedented. Right. Like, if someone had the flu but also had a heart attack, they would assume that that person died of a heart attack. Yes. Yeah. So this is unprecedented. Is this because this is such a popular. I wouldn't use that word the wrong way, but that's what I mean. A popular subject. And financial incentives. Yes. And like so this is not some sort of a moral indictment of sort of hospital administrators.


It's just they're in it. They're in in a tough in a tough spot here. They actually don't have enough patients to to to pay everyone for it without furloughing furloughing doctors and firing staff and. Yeah. Is they're running potentially going bankrupt. So so then they're like, OK, well, the stimulus bill says if we get all this, you know, money, if we say no, if if if they have to cover death, I'm like, okay, they coughed before they died.


In fact, they're not even diagnosis code. They simply if you had weakness, a cough, shortness of breath. Frankly, I'm not sure how you die without those things. No. Yeah, right, there's so many different things that you could attribute to cover to, there's so many symptoms. There's diarrhea, headaches, dehydration.


Yeah, cough, yes. But to be clear, you don't even need to have gotten a Kober diagnosis. You simply need to have had one of many symptoms and then have died for some reason. And it's covered so so then it makes the death count look very high. And then we're it we're then stuck in a bind because it looks like the death count super high and not going down like it should be. And now. So we should keep whatever, you know.


Keep, keep, keep, keep the shelter in place, stuff there and keep people in their home. You can fight it with the homes. So we needed to break out of this this. We're stuck in a loop now. And I think the way to break out this loop is to have clarity of information. Clarity of information will certainly help, but altering perceptions, public perception from people that are basically in a panic. There's a lot of essentially.


Well, at least a month ago, we're clearly in a panic.


I mean, right. Where do you know when you look around April 5th, April 6th. People were really freaking out. But here we are, May and May. People are relaxing a little bit. Yes.


They're realizing, OK. I actually know a couple of people that got it. It was just a cough. And I know some people that got that weird. Nothing happened.


I know a lot of people look at it. I know zero people are died. I mean it. I know. Yeah. A lot of people have got it. Yeah, it's it's not what we feared. We feared something much worse. That's correct. So the adjustment is difficult to make. So you said, first of all, we need real data. You need to just pass out the data.


Don't don't lump it all together. And if you give. If people just pass out the data, better, clearer, clearer information about looks at. Was this an actual Kovar diagnosis or was it a what did they get the test and the key test came back positive? Or do they just have some symptoms? Just pass that those two out and then pass out just. If somebody died, did they die? What did they do? For that, they even have a coba test.


Or do they just have one of many symptoms like like like how do you die without weakness? I don't know. Right. It's impossible, basically. Good point.


If you're gonna die, you're gonna have shortness of breath, weakness, and you might cough a little. So. So was it quantified? What was it?


Yeah. Did that person do they actually have a Kovar test? And the tests come back positive. And then if if if they died, did they die? Where were covered was it isn't had to be the main course but was a significant contributor to their death or was it not a significant contributor to death? Right. It's not as simple as just because you had kov it, Colvard killed you. Is definitely not right. Yeah, yeah. I mean, people die all the time and they have like flu and other colds and we don't say that they died of those flu and other colds.


Well, that's what's so weird and absurd. It's so popular. And I use that word in a weird way, but it's so popular that we've kind of forgotten people die pneumonia every day. Yeah, people die of the flu. Didn't take a break. Oh, Crovitz got this. I'm going to sit this one out. I'm going to be on the bench. I'm going to wait until corvids done before I jump back into the game killing people. The flu is still here, killing people every year in the world.


Several hundred thousand people died directly of the flu. Yeah, not not too gently. Right. Not every 61000 in this country last year.


Yeah. And we're only five percent of the world. And then there's cigarettes. So. Oh, man. Cigarettes, cigarettes really kill you.


That's a weird one, right? We're terrified of this disease that we're projected could potentially kill one hundred if not two hundred thousand Americans is here with cigarettes, kill 500000.


And you don't hear a peep out of any politician. Does no one running for Congress is trying to ban cigarettes? Is no one running for Senate that wants to put some education plan in place? It's going to stop cigarettes in their tracks.


Yeah. I mean, a long time, like several years ago, maybe along the ten, ten years ago, I helped make a movie called Thank You for Smoking. Oh, I saw that. Yeah. It. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. So smoke it, barbequing your lungs is bad. Just bad news isn't it's not not get turning your lungs and smoke. Smoked beef. Not great. So, yeah, but it's Tylenol. So, by the way, he also kills a lot of people.


What is the number of Tylenol every year?


I'm not sure. An exact number, but I believe it until the opioid crisis.


I believe Tylenol was the number one killer of all drugs because, wow, basically it's if you have if you get drunk and take a lot of Tylenol, acetaminophen, essentially you're it cause liver failure. So I would like get get wasted and then like have a headache and poppets, it's Gurdon's. Wow.


Yeah. Curtains is funny. Yeah. Yes.


But no, it never is like, you know, raging against Tylenol.


Yeah. It's weird except acceptable deaths are weird. And that's the real, the slippery slope about this.


People shaming people for wanting to go back to work. You know, other people are going to die. Well, if you drive, do you drive, Ugwu, you should stop driving because people die from driving. So, you know, it definitely should fill up all the swimming pools because like 50 people die every day in this country from swimming. So let's not swim anymore.


And what what is the really.


We chopped down all the coconut water. Coconuts kill 150 people every year. Yes.


Cut down all the coconut trees. We need those people. Yes. It's at a certain point times like. Yeah, we're vulnerable and we're also we're also if we have a finite existence, no matter what we do, nobody lives forever, right?


I mean that. I mean, I think you want to look at, say, death as like the but for this disease, whatever, they would have lived X number of years. Yeah. You know, so, you know, if somebody dies when they're they're 20 and could live till 80, they they last 60 years. But if somebody dies when they're 80 and they might live to 81, they last one year. Yes. So it's it's like how many life years were lost is a probably the right metric to use.


I don't read my own comments, but I do read other people's comments. And I was reading this one little Twitter beef that was going on where someone was saying that Colvard takes an average of ten years off people's lives and we should appreciate those ten years. And then someone else said, not true. I'm sure it's true. Yeah, definitely the Twitter to talk about.


But someone else said the average age of people who die from Colvard is older than the average age people die. It's very sad.


Let's just say it's like it's it's about the same. That's a beautiful way of looking at it. I mean, it's it's unfortunate. It sucks, but it sucks if grandpa dies of Alzheimer's or emphysema or leukemia. It sucks. It sucks when someone you love dies. Yes. But I'm not I mean, actually, if if this. I think a lesson to be taken here that I think is quite important is that if you have your great great grandparents and their grandparents really be careful with with with, you know, any kind of flu or cold or something that that wouldn't is not dangerous to kids or young adults.


But it is dangerous to to help the elderly. Is it basically if your kid's got a runny nose. They should stay away from their grandparents no matter what it is. It's it's the things that are where a young immune system is has no problem and an older one has as a problem. Yeah. And in fact, a lot of a lot of the deaths are just ah, literally it's it's tragic. But there are intra family. It's that, you know, the little little kid had had a cold or flu and gave it to Kandahar.


Yeah. Yeah. They have the family gathering and they don't know that this is a big deal. But it's just important to remember when you get older, your immune system is just not that strong. And and and so just be careful with your with your loved ones. So elderly.


And I think there is some true objective understanding of the immune system and the ways to boost that immune system. And I really think that that that information should be that should be distributed in a way, a nonjudgmental way. But like, look, this is this is a way that we can all like. This is a scientifically proven way that we can boost our immune system and it might save your life and it might save the life of your loved ones.


And maybe we could teach this to our grandparents, our parents and the people that are vulnerable. You know, vitamin C, heat, shock, proteins, all these different variables that we know contribute to a stronger immune system.


Yeah. Actually, just think that that is is is is tough. If you like, when you as you get older, it's it's hard to be you put 10 to put on weight and suddenly that's happening with me. You know, I like the older I get like them. It's harder to stay lean. That's for sure. And so actually being being overweight is is a big deal. Yeah. Just a it's a fact. Well, yeah.


The New York hospital said it was the number one factor for severe Cauvin symptoms was obesity. The number one factor is that that's.


Yes, exactly. But it's also we live in a world where people want to be sensitive to other people's feelings. So, yeah, no, absolutely don't want to bring up the fact that being fat is bad for you.


So judgment on your food's great. Yeah, I do love food.


Yeah. And I mean I mean, to be totally frank. I mean, speak for myself, I'd, I'd rather eat tasty if you wouldn't live a shorter life.


Yeah. Those moments of enjoying a great meal. Yeah. And then even talking about they're valuable. They're worth something. Yeah.


It's not we don't want to eat Soylent Green and lived to be 160 tasty views. Grace. Yeah. Those things about life. It really is.


Yeah. It's an art form as well. It's like fine food is.


It's uh it's a it's a delicious sandcastle.


It's temporary. It doesn't last very long, but there's something about it that's very pleasing.


Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what advice to give. Like maybe swallow or haven't tasted food with smaller amounts of it. Yeah, I guess it is.


Yeah. And I think regulated feeding windows really the way to go some sort of an intermittent fasting approach. So when I started doing that I, I, I, I found myself to be quite a bit healthier. When I've deviated from that, I've gained weight.


So what's what. Sixteen hours. Well 16 hours. Yeah. So like at night or. Yeah. Yeah.


So I get to a certain point and then I count out I usually hit the stopwatch on my phone and then I look at fifteen hours and I'm, I got an hour before I can eat. Yeah. And so anything in between that is just water or coffee.


Actually you know I like this, this may be a useful bit of advice for, for people, but eating before you go to bed is a real bad idea and actually negatively affects your sleep. Yeah. And it can actually cause it heartburn that you don't even know it's happening. And that subtle heartburn affects your sleep because you're you're horizontal and you're. Yeah. Body's digesting. So if you want to prove the quality of your sleep and, you know, to be healthier, it's it's do not eat right before you go to sleep.


Yeah. It's like one of the worst things you could do.


I did some of the biggest mistakes I've ever met. I've I've done that particularly after comedy shows. I'm starving. I come home and I'll eat and then I go to bed and it does feel like shit. And I wake up in the middle of the night.


It's gonna crusher sleep and it's going to damage your pilot, you know, pyloric sphincter in your esophagus. And this is it. So, in fact, drinking and then going to sleep. Is it that's one of the worst things you. Yes.


So I just try to avoid drinking and and eating booze.


Booze. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I don't, you know, small amounts alcohol. That evidence suggests it's not it doesn't have a negative effect.


I put in the same category as delicious food. Kind of makes things a little more fun. Yeah, I like it.


I mean, some of the people, some of the people who've lived the longest, you know, was a woman in France who I think maybe maybe has a record or close to it. She had a glass of wine every day. Every day. Yeah. Small, small amounts as far as wine. But yeah, this is like a I alert this like quite late in life. It's like just avoid having alcohol and and avoid eating at least two or three hours before going to sleep.


And your quality of life will your quality of sleep will improve. Your general health will prove a lot for sure. This is a it's a big deal and I think not widely and not widely known.


Do you have time to exercise a little bit to train or anything?


I do, although I haven't seen her for a while. But yeah, especially if I'm like, you know, say, working on Star Chef or something that affects us. And I'm just living in my got a little little house there in Boca Chica Village. I don't know much do so, but we're, we're like, oh, I'm working. And I was just lifting wages and you know, maybe I like I, I'm sorry. I love running.


I don't love running. But what do you like to do.


Exercise was. To totally, Frank, I wouldn't exercise at all if I could. But if I ate, I'd prefer not to exercise, but we would exercise and lift lifting weights and. And then kind of run on the treadmill and maybe watch a show that, you know, if if if there's a compelling show that pulls you in. Right. Right. Right. Yeah.


That's a good thing to do. Yeah. Watch a good movie or episode of Black Mirror or some light. That's great man.


Don't watch Black Mirror before go to bed either. Well, don't watch Black Mirror today. It's too fucking accurate. Yeah, exactly. It's like, wait. This already happened in real life.


Yeah, they're dead. Too close is too close. Well, even. Didn't Jamie didn't you say that the guy who makes black mare takes off.


Yeah. Yeah. He said he it's not a good time to start season six. Yeah.


He wants to hold off because his reality is nailed. It is black mirror. Oh. It's like he's going to have to like re reassess and attack it from a different angle.


Yeah. You should try something that's fun to do. That's not just like. Like learn a martial art or something like that.


I did martial arts when. As a kid. Did you watch. Yeah. I did taekwondo. I did karate. Christian guy. Cool and judo.


I'll see you. He really branched out. Yeah. So. And that Brazilian jujitsu, briefly, did you wear it in Palo Alto? Really? Oh, no shit. I was going to suggest that that's a great thing for people.


Like that's a thing about jujitsu. If you look at it from the outside, you think, oh, but a meat head strangling each other.


But there's some of the smartest people I know or jujitsu fiends because they they get they first of all, they get introduced to it because usually either they want to exercise or learn some self-defense.


But then they realize that it's essentially like a language with your body, like you're having an argument with someone with some sort of a physical language.


And it's really complex. And the more access to vocabulary and the sharper your words are, the more you'll succeed in these ventures.


It's really also an accurate analogy of what you jitsu is. Yeah.


I mean, I kind of I mean, like a lot of people feel the way early day, the first enemy fights and hoist Gracy. And it's like incredible. It's like. It's like technique. Yeah. Yeah. It was like, you know, winning is way bigger. And like I since then.


Oh, this is cool. It was what martial arts were supposed to be whereas we were kids. Yeah. When you saw Bruce Lee fuck up all these big giant guys like. Wow. Martial arts allow you to beat someone far bigger and stronger than you, right? Most of the time that's not real.


Especially if they know martial arts. Yeah. It's like. Oh, no. Yes. But in the UFC, when hoist Gracy off of his back was strangling. Dan Savrin with his legs. Holy shit. Yeah. This guy's being pinned by this big giant wrestler and he wraps his legs around his neck and chokes him to the point the guy has to surrender.


Yeah, amazing. Yeah, it was amazing. I mean, horse got beaten pretty bad in some of those. He did well. He definitely had some rough fights. But he won. But he won.


Yeah, he's a legend. And but what it showed and I mean, I'm a huge lover of jujitsu.


What it showed is that there is a method for for diffusing these situations with technique and knowledge.




And I think it's also a great way to exercise, too, because it's almost like the exercise is secondary to the learning of the thing. The exercises like you want, like and you want to develop strength and conditioning just so they you can be better at doing the thing. So the analogy that I use is like if you imagine if you had a race car and you could actually give the race car better handling and more horsepower, you know, just from your own focus and effort.


So that's really what it's like.


Yeah. Yeah. When am I going to make my kids? I should say I sent my kids to jujitsu. Since you are like six. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, that's awesome.


Yeah, it's a great thing to learn. It really is like a good. Yes. Yeah.


Maybe something like. I mean, even if you just have someone who hits the hold the pads for you, you get a workout in and to be fun. When am I going to be owned by one of them roadsters once I happen? Well, I can't, you know, say exactly when. But. We've got to get it, you know, those who cover things can't throw at us for a loop, I'm sure. So I'm not to blame everything to cover it, but.


You know, was certainly set us back on progress for some number of months.


I mean, things are gonna get get done. I had a or are, you know, ramping up my production. That'll be a great, great car. It is a great car. Getting the Berlin Gigafactory boats and and also building. Why getting expanding the Shanghai factory, which is going great. And. Get the gate. You know, there's this cyber trucks, semi truck roadster, right? Rosas can like desert. So, like, we got to get the meat and potatoes and greens and stuff like.


But Rose, too, comes a horse hybrid truck. I mean, I think we should use our truck first before, before or before us. Are just saying that NASA mattered, that some other things for us or there.


You know, the tri motor plaid powertrain. We're gonna have that in Model S, so that's like one of the ingredients that's needed for for a roadster is the plaid powertrain, the more advanced, you know, battery pack kind of thing.


I want to ask you about this for forgot what there's a company that's called Apex is taking your Teslas and they're giving you a wider base and wider tires and a little bit more advanced suspension.


How do you feel about that? Yes, I've worked with those people. I mean, I'm just I'm all for it. But go ahead.


They're just jasen stuff up with carbon fiber and doing a bunch interior choices. You're cool with. You can't fuck with that. You don't have time. So is it good that someone comes along and has any sort of special operation? Yeah, I. No problem. That's what called. Right. It's like jamming. Is it called Apex. Yeah.


I got unplugged performance as Apex. That's right.


Unplugged performance. Yeah. Yeah you could for sure. Lighten the car up and improve to tire traction. Have you seen that company's stuff, what they do.


I don't know specifically, but it is it's pretty dope. Yeah. They make a pretty dope looking. They take model S and they wide net and give it a bunch carbon fiber. That's it right there.


Go to la la la. That's pretty nice. Yeah, it does.


Now the the plaid version of the model S you. Are you going to widen the track and doing a bunch. Do a bunch different. I know you guys are testing the nerve triggering can not talk about that.


Well I think we got to leave that for, you know, proper sort of product and veil.


I understand. Yeah, I understand. Last time you were here, you convinced me to buy a Tesla. I bought it and it's fucking insane. Oh, great. Glad you like fun. I do. It's not just pretty fun. It's like the way I've described it as it makes other cars seem stupid. They just seem dumb.


I know I love dumb things. I love dumb cars. Like I love campfires. Yeah, I love campfires.


I have a nineteen ninety three Porsche. That's air cooled.


It's like it's not that fast. It's really slow compared to the Tesla. Yeah. They're really so really quite slow. Yeah. But there's something engaging about the mechanical. Just, just like the gears. It's very very analog.


But it's so stupid in comparison to Tesla. Like when I want to go somewhere and the model S, I hit the gas, it just goes away.


It just it like violates time.


Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've tried it like Ludicrus Plus and so cool. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.


Well we did just did a software update where it will do it like a cheetah stance. So yeah. So it's it it because it's got an added dynamic suspension so it lowers the back. Oh Jesus. Yeah. Just like, like a sprinter. Basic. Right. Like what do you do if you're a sprinter. You hunker down and then. So I shaved like a tenth of a second of 06. I mean, like, you know, it's pretty fun itself.


I've taken so many people and I'm I, I, I take them for the holy shit moment. I'm like, are you ready? Like, hang on there. And then I stomp on the guy that I've never felt anything like it.


It's confusing. Yeah, it really. Yeah.


The instant torque, the instant torque and just the sheer acceleration is baffling.


Is baffling. It's baffling. I've never felt it. Now it's faster than falling.


It's crazy. It's so fast. It's a roller coaster.


Yeah. And my family yells at me when I stop the gas like I tell my kids, I'm like, you want to feel it? You want to feel like, do it, do it, do it. My wives, I don't do it.




And even if I just do it on the highway for a couple of seconds on siding. Yeah. It's very like having our own rollercoaster on tap. It really is like a roller coaster on time. Yeah. Without the loop de loops.


But it's the painting too. You see it. It seems like you're not supposed to be able to experience that from some sort of a can, you know, consumer vehicle that you can just a regular person by.


If you have the money, it seems too, too crazy. And then the idea this roadster is a half of a second faster than that. Yeah, that's madness.


Wolf, that roads with a road. So we're gonna do some things that are kind of unfair. So we're going to take some things from like, you know, from kind of like rock rocket world and put them on a car, so.


Oh, I've read about that. Explain that. Like, what do you do? Well, like I said, you can't to avail right here, but. But it's can do some things that aren't fair. And they're the the the the way we do the unveiled the Roadster. Let me just say that anyone who's been waiting, they won't be sorry. It's they won't be sorry.


Oh sure. Well he goes zero to 60.


It was at one point nine. Is that there are 60. But that's the base model.


That's what's the top of the food chain model I get. Oh, go, go, go. Faster than that. It's just a farce. Yeah, that seems so crazy to me.


Now, what was it like when the dude threw the steel balls at the window and they were supposed to not break and it broke?


Well, yeah. I mean, those circumstances are different. You know, that our demos are authentic.


So I was not expecting that. And I and then I think I muttered under my breath quickly. He didn't get mad, though.


No, you didn't. Steve Jobs it.


No, I, I, I definitely swore, but I didn't think the micro pick it up. But it did and it it so like we practiced this, you know, behind the scenes. Yeah.


I would like it. Tesla, we don't do we don't do like tons of practice for it for our demo because we work, we're working on the cars like we, you know, we're building new technologies and and proving the fundamental product. So we're not spending it like do it during like hundreds of, you know, practice things or anything like that. We're out of time for that. But the hours just hours before the demo, both fronts, you know, is head of design.


And Ed and I were in the studio, thrown steel balls at the window, was bounced right off like, okay, well, seems pretty good.


It seems like you got it. Okay.


And then we think what happened was that when we weren't when when Frunze hit the door with the sledgehammer, you know, so. Sure.


Like, like this is this is like a exoskeleton, you know, high strength, hardened steel. You can literally take wind up with a sledgehammer, you know, full on double handed sledgehammer and hit the door. And there's not even a dent. It's cool. But we think that that cracked the corner of the glass at the bottom.


And then once you crack the corner of the glass, that it's game over.


So then when you threw the ball, that that's what cracked the glass.


So it didn't go through, though. It didn't go through it. That's true.


It didn't shatter the whole thing like a regular window would eat it, which would just dissolve it. Right. So in hindsight, the boss had been first sledgehammers sack. Yeah.


Yeah. You live. You learn. Yeah, exactly.


Listen, man, we've taken up a lot of your time. You had a child. Yeah, I got it recently back. And it's amazing that you had the time to come down here. And I really appreciate that. I appreciate everything you do, man. I'm glad you're out there and I really appreciate you coming down here and sharing your perspective.


Well, I think you've got a great show. Thanks. Family on. My pleasure. My pleasure. Elon Musk, ladies and gentlemen, good night. All right, let's get a little play. That was great.