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Carly, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Tim, I'm so thrilled to have you here. And I just want to make a few observations, slash comments upfront.


So the first is this could go on. I have a researcher who helps me with some prep documents. I certainly do my own prep.


And his his documents are usually very straightforward. He is affectionately called the crazy Bulgari. And he's not crazy. I just thought that he should trademark that.


He is from Bulgaria and he put a note on top of yours. He never adds notes. And the note is so open parentheses note in all caps like she sounds like the nicest person on the planet and parentheses.


So that that that that's quite biggovernment.


So that got my attention. And I should also say that I have a face made for audio.


And this is a new, relatively new experiment with video.


And this is the highest beauty differential that I've ever had on my show and I'm okay with it. So height's but not the height. Also.


So if you if those of you who are listening through your ear, your heels, want to see a shiny bulbous head known on video, you then you can find me side by side with next to a giraffe.


Next to a giraffe. So I wanted to start with talking about modeling. Yeah. And there are lot of beautiful people on the on this planet. And there are many people who go into modeling and they're very, very few who get to where you are. And it strikes me that there are some.


It would seem a success cases of, in this case, women who have gone off to build incredible businesses like Kathy Ireland and there are others. So I wanted to start with asking you if you had when you were getting started or even now, any role models, a mom that women who were men who have you have gone from modeling to do other things? I mean, you you certainly mentioned one Kathy Ireland. There's a long list. You know, Cindy Crawford, Christy Turlington, Jizo many women who are in the industry and have used their platform or voice or experiences to build businesses or to make meaningful impact in the world in whatever way they're passionate about.


And like for me, that is that is success. And I don't know. Yeah, I did not anticipate working in fashion or being a model, but I recognized somewhere along the line that there's so much more you can do with it. And the women who have come before me certainly have proved that it seems like from the outside looking in that much like, say, entertainment, it's the machinery of fashion, beauty and so on, probably has a lot of casualty's meaning.


It just chews up and spits out a lot of people. That's really it would seem to be turnover. A lot of turnover.


What were some of the key decisions that you and or your family or people like managers made that helped you to navigate to avoid some of the most common pitfalls? Maybe you could just start with like what are what are some of the most common mistakes and pitfalls?


Sure. I mean, honestly, Tim, I feel like I'm living my own version of a Cinderella story or an American dream. I mean, I have been able to travel the world and have been able to learn from those extraordinary people. I'm sitting here with you talking.


I mean, this is I feel like I'm I'm living a dream everyday. And, you know, I certainly did not anticipate going into fashion or being a model. A I had a very different kind of career path in mind.


And I I had this opportunity and I and I took it.


What was the what was the opportunity? So I was the.


You grew up in the Midwest. I grew up in the Midwest. And my father's a doctor. He's an emergency room physician. One of the most hardworking people you'll ever meet. And so selfless. And I have three sisters and my mom's an artist. And so I just like grew up this in this amazing Midwestern, picturesque kind of childhood.


And at 13, I was stopped in a mall and asked if I would be interested in walking in a fashion show at the time. Not only did I not care about it.


It just wasn't my life fashion.


I mean, I didn't even subscribe to magazines. I I was focusing on school. I was focusing on ballet, academics and and sports and. And so anyway, this idea of modeling was like totally not even in my in my head, in my mind.


And so I didn't I didn't enter this with the ambition of building a career and modeling. I was stopped in a mall at 13, walked in a local charity fashion show to raise money for a local. Family who's my friend's father, her had her dad had cancer. So was this charity benefit and I was I was there were scouts there from real agencies and they took my name and said, let's stay in touch. I grew a couple inches. Fast forward to when I'm 15.


And how tall are you? Fifteen. Fifteen.


Oh, my God. I was 15 years old and five eleven. Yeah. It's painful.


Don't worry. I'm still working on it. I'm. So we're going to five nine. I'm forty. Look, I'm I'm going to get there. I'm a doctor. I believe in you.


I believe in you.


And so anyway, I said I was 15 years old and I got this opportunity to go to New York for the weekend and meet the designers of cast of Calvin Klein. And. And they booked me and I walked in their fashion show. And it completely kind of put me on the map as a new up-and-coming model. And I. And it just was. It's been a wild ride ever since.


Ever since that that day in the mall when I was stopped. What are the what are the traps like? What are the common pitfalls? I mean, the things that you haven't grown up on on Long Island. And for instance, I mean, I grew up at the very end of Long Island where there actually a lot of drug problems. Yeah.


And I'm not saying that it's drugs, although I suspect that could be a piece of it.


But like, where do people get off track or make mistakes?


Sure. I mean, I think there's a lot of misconceptions and I think there's a lot of generalizations around around the fashion industry, around the modeling industry. And, you know, I can only speak to my experience, but I've had just a really positive experience as a model. I've like I said, it's been my key to the world. I've been able to travel the world. I have more frequent flyer miles than most CEO.


And I thought, you know, I've been able to see the world and and learned so much learn from so many brilliant people. And so, you know, I've used it to my advantage. I think that there are aspects of the industry that are really challenging. I think a lot of people tell, you know, a lot of people there's a lot of there's a lot of competition. There's a. Like you said, I mean, there's so many beautiful people.


There's a lot of luck. And I feel like for me, you know, in my Cinderella story, it feel like I was in the right place at the right time. And I had this window of opportunity and I ran for it. And I have an amazing family who is by my side every step of the way. I mean, starting a career at fifteen is I think there's there's pitfalls to that. Just the nature of being fifteen and having a lot of pressure on you.


So for me, I had a lot of luck and the right people around me and I think a lot of young women who want to go into modeling or work in fashion, that's not always the case.


How how did your family help you in terms of rules and policies? And the reason I ask, yes. Is it seemed like they were quite strict when it came to high school, homework and so on. So I was doing some reading prior to this. And a day might look like a 7:00 a.m. flight to New York to do some type of shoot for 5:00 a.m. flight international covers.


Then you fly back and you're doing homework at 7:00 p.m. and so on. Yes. What were what were some of the parameters, rules, policies, anything like that, that your that your parents had to help keep you on track? Because this is this relates to something that has popped up a few times in this podcast, I think is really important. Could you. Could you speak to that? Sure.


You know, I had this kind of double life. I was 15 years old and very much figuring out who I am, what you know.


In high school, I mean, you're figuring out a lot of things. And like I said, I was a five foot eleven 15 year old. So that came with its own set of challenges.


But I I don't know, I guess I I had this double life and I would be in school, have a very normal day in class, sitting in the school lunch room with my friends, with my peers. And then I would get on a flight to Paris or New York a couple days a week. I really had this full time job even as a freshman in high school. So I had this double life and it was before social media. So none of my friends or teachers really knew what to the extent of what I was doing.


So I would go to Paris and walk in a couture runway show or be in be the face of the deorr campaigns globally or on the cover of magazines. And it was before the kind of global connectivity we have now. So I kind of was able to have a very, very normal real life as at the same time I was building this international career.


And I think that the decision. When that to my parents, I definitely helped me kind of stay really balanced with with focusing on academics and focusing on what matters. I mean, we still would have normal family dinners and I would get in trouble if I like. Didn't, you know, came home past curfew or I don't know.


I had like such a normal home life that I think that really was that balanced, all of these amazing other things out. And I think my parents were always really they trusted me. I think that's one of the biggest things, too. They knew that I was that they trusted me to do the right thing. And they they add that that freedom there's a lot of there's a lot of, I don't know, responsibility I felt with that and gratitude to my parents because I didn't want to let them down.


And so I think I never I never wanted to. I don't know. To to ruin that or betray that. Betray that. Yeah.


So one of the reasons I ask is I'm fascinated by people who have reached the pinnacle of success in any field who can remain grounded in any capacity because it seems that whether it's alcohol, power. Yeah, money. Those are the three that come to mind. When you add those any of those in quantity, people tend to become more of what they are. So if they have a small flaw, it gets magnified. And if they're a small asshole, they become a really big asshole.


And there's there's real risk and pressures out of the to the container. So I'm fascinated how people maintain perspective over time so that they don't become some abomination like Frankensteins version of themselves and end.


For instance, a friend of mine have had on this podcast, Chris Sokka, who had the average voice watching, go from an angel investor, said fledgeling v.c to now Midas list.


Right. Arguably the I don't even think it's arguable is his lowercase one fund is going to be the most successful venture capital fund in the history of venture capital. So he's he's really reached a peak.


And when I've dug in with him as to how he's maintained some perspective because he's still ultimately is a very middle class kid who grew up in upstate New York, Mich., trying to make ends meet.


His parents had him do something called sweet and sour summers. So they would give him they would help him to find a job that would give him an opportunity to learn and interact with people who were maybe above his pay grade, above his parents pay grade. But then they would also make him take some shitty job like hauling around heavy things at a construction site.


I had plenty of those shitty jobs, but, you know, so I had to the extent of the normal life that this kind of double life that I had, my normal life, I really I can't stress that enough. It is very normal. Like I I mean, I still had my like, chores during the dishes, taking out the trash like every 15 year old. Didn't matter if I was on the cover of international Vogues, like I was still coming home and doing my homework and taking out the trash like.


And also beyond just my parents, my sisters, I have three sisters that I'm really close with and some of my best friends. My my core group of girlfriends from growing up that I've known since kindergarten are still some of my best friends. And so I think there's this I I feel really grateful that I've been able to to.


I don't know, keep my feet on the ground. Very much so. And also, I have a lot of people around me who would bat me over the head and like beat me up if I did it. You know, they were they wouldn't allow it.


They were I don't know, I. Yeah. Yeah. The support structures also the people might be asking themselves like, well, okay, you grew up that way. Fantastic. I didn't grow up that way. So it's not actionable. And what I would say is not true. Why would I explore this? Because you can actually build into what is the version. If you are hoping to achieve a certain modicum of success, like what are the chores that you can engineer into your lives, that you maintain some perspective?


Are there ways to do it right? Maybe it's volunteering once a week.


And yes, and that helps you to not only hopefully ultimately achieve some success, but to achieve also some contentment and life outside of focusing only on your personal success. And which is actually a Segway of sorts to. I'm going to get there. I want to I'm going to talk about coding very, very shortly, but going to get there vis-a-vis books.


So when I ask about books I had read, maybe true, maybe not that you don't actually watch very much television. So I was like, all right, great. Well, let's talk about books then.


Are there any particular books that you have gifted the most to other people or re-read after yourself?


I love podcasts and I love audio books. I feel like I'm somebody who learns by by listening. I retain information better.


So I I do like TV, but I just don't have a ton of time for it.


I feel like I'm constantly on the go. And so I'm listening to audiobooks, whether I'm walking through airport security or in a cab to the airport. And I love there's this book, The Four Agreements. Yeah. That I I recently gave my sisters who are graduating from college. And I just think I think it's got a lot of great principles and ideas. Are there any particular podcasts that that are your go to?


I love so I love learning about things. I love learning about entrepreneurs. I love learning about. I like I love listening to conversations. I mean, I guess that's one thing, too, that I feel like in my real life, I get to as many people. I'm sitting here with you, Tim. I mean, what a privilege that is. You're welcome to respond to that comment later. Know it's true.


But I love listening to conversations. I love. I love your work. I love, guy, how I built this. I love I love listening to conversations.


So the four agreements for four people who are familiar has come up quite a few times in this podcast.


I also recently found out that that Tom Brady had been gifting this book a whole lot as well. Has to catch you at the right time. I think for it to be applicable. But the reason I brought up you're going to say no, I was just going to say, you know, I'm twenty five.


And I feel like it's to the point of the timing because someone gave it to me for my birthday. And I just think that it it really does come down to kind of this. I think we're always evolving, always growing and should be always learning. At least I hope I am. And there's it's really makes you focus inward. And I think there's. It doesn't matter how old or young you are. I think there's that's something that I really value is is growing as a human being.


And it's certainly kind of helps helps you think about ways to grow and focus as a human being.


So other ways to grow. We're going to get to it in two seconds. I brought up books because books involve writing, sort of expressing thought in some cases on paper. Some cases an audio. And there's a craft. There's a certain elegance to good writing. Yeah. And I have I've been fascinated by coding and coders for a very long time. And the fact that you can have a very, very good code or get more done than the next 10 if he or she is just very, very elegant and can find non-obvious solutions.


And what they're trying to execute. And I've spent a very small amount of time with it with a guy named Chad Fowler, actually, who who showed me many years ago the basics of Ruby.


Yeah, just in one afternoon. But he used natural language to help me get a grasp on it because he speaks Hindi and I'm fascinated by different languages. Then was an East Asian studies major so fascinated by writing systems and Japanese, Chinese, Korean, etc. And so I wanted to ask you of all the many, many things of the hundreds and thousands of things that you could do with your time.


How did you get exposed to coding and and walk me through your first experience or experiences with that?


Well, I love the way that you you explain it as language, and that's really what it is. And I think that like any language, it's. Medium that you can express yourself, that you can express creative ideas, and that is what I why I think it's so powerful. I got exposed to it because I'm just a super curious, like annoyingly cur curious person. I ask a lot of questions and I love understanding how things work. I love understanding like how the world around me works and and how science and math can be ways to explain that I.


But I work in a really creative industry. And and I I don't know, I guess I at a certain point, I'm a couple of years ago, I wanted to understand what code was. It was the term they wanted.


It was a person, a conversation.


I mean, I was meeting a lot of entrepreneurs. I was watching the entire world, especially fashion and media, be transformed by technology. And I was like, what is it that a handful of people who are engineers and building huge enterprise value, what is this, a secret language that they know that the rest of us don't and code? And I was like, what is code and how can I learn it? So I took a bootcamp. It took one one week.


And even in where where was it?


In New York, at the Manhattan school, who introduced me to this guy, Harvey, fullof bomb. And he's a great teacher. And he started this school and he taught me Ruby similar. Exactly. So it's a very intuitive kind of language. And. And even in a short time, I was able to kind of understand high level big principles.


And the fact that you can use code to write a line of code that performs function and you can build you can build ideas using this language. And that to me was just so mind-blowing to understand, like how the tech that we touch every day, how it works and to take it one step further, but to actually be able to to write it yourself and to express your ideas and to be able to I mean, you're a man of you're so efficient.


Tim, it's really inspiring. You're so organized and so efficient.


Organized for maybe like two hours a day. So you're saying like two hours. You are so impressive.


And I just think that like even you can build tech to enable that and to scale that. And that's what's so powerful is the ability to scale ideas or scale problem-solving using code. And and I think that there's so much opportunity that has yet to really even be built in this kind of intersection of kind of many intersections of of kind of creative industries with from the perspective of someone writing code who has different life experiences or passions maybe than than most engineers sitting in Silicon Valley today.


And you take this class. Yeah. You learn the basics of Ruby with Ηarvey with of it. And how does that what is code with classing to code of class? Okay, folks, through the gate.


odey is my organization where we teach girls to learn how to code and empower the next generation of tech leaders. So we do that by running summer camps across the country. And we teach girls the ABCs. So Ruby h._t._m._l javascript's VSS enough to be able to build something. So our camps are across the country. And they're two weeks long and they're totally free. And we have these amazing girls who come into our camps and learn these skills. And it's amazing what they're able to build and not only just the way that they're able to build their ideas, but what they're passionate about.


So if it's like making social impact, helping their community, they're able to build something and recognize the impact that they can have. And that's really empowering. And that's that that for a girl who's kind of, you know, at that point in life where you're like figuring out what you think you can be or what you think you can't. Like, that's really empowering. I need to learn to code. You need to let you into code. You need to keep kids.


Embarrassing that I've been in Silicon Valley or I mean, I'm no longer there in Austin. I live here, but 17 years in Silicon Valley. And I think I was, too.


I was worried that I wouldn't be good at it.


And I had a deep, deep insecurity that when I scratched the surface, I would see the infinite complexity of something that I could at best only be mediocre at. And so I stuck my head in the sand.


I disagree. I think that that's the best one of the barriers to entry. I think that's why a lot of people don't ever try. I mean, who who am I am like, I don't have it. I don't work in Silicon Valley. I don't. Yeah. I didn't go to college. I. But I. I'm curious. And it's it's something that can be learned. Like anything else. It is a language. And I think that that a lot of people let that get in the way of thinking.




You know, it strikes me, too, that I think perhaps in my mind I've given myself an out, which is actually really flimsy, and that is that I it'll be too hard to learn to code in my mind, like learning to code is building, you know, the next super app to go gain 100 million users.


Whereas in reality, give you an example from my own experience and I have some some questions for you. So I don't talk too much. This is what happens with too much caffeine.


But so I've always been very, very insecure about my voice. Oh, and that's OK. That's part of the reason why I wanted to do the podcast is to beat that out of myself or to get more comfortable with my voice.




And if if anyone listens to my earlier episodes, say the introductions to my early, early, early episodes, and then later you will see the confidence build over time.


I was really unsure of myself in the beginning, and I'm still unsure of myself in some ways.


But I've always been fearful of singing any type of singing. I would never do it like I'm right there with you.


So I've always had my New Year's resolutions almost every year for the last six years. Along those lines. Voice lessons never did it until a few months ago. Just started. And what I realized very quickly is that I don't have to become a good singer to get a credible value out of these voice lessons because I've learned enough.


Now I've certainly improved, but not ready for any any opera.


This might be your debut. You will say that after the broadcast.


The I won't and I won't impose that on anyone right now.


It'll be it'll be very, very harsh.


But when you learn the basics of any skill and I already know that, so I don't know why I've been so blind to it with both singing anything now coding. Yeah. Even if you never do anything with it. Persay, suddenly you hear everything in the case of voice. You listen to every song you hear differently. And so your enjoyment of that in your appreciation of it is 10x.


Yes, I would imagine that when you learn the basics of coding, even if you don't use it to push you off into a different career, it gives you an entirely different lens through which you can look at everything that is being built and how things work.


And that alone is like that alone to have that gift to look through a different lens for the rest of your life.


Putting in a week or two seems like a very potentially worthwhile use of time. Absolutely not. Tim, I mean, just on that point, it's like, you know, I think even if you understand high level what how things are built, you can understand what is possible. And I think that that's what's really exciting, even just for, you know, as an entrepreneur, you don't have to. I mean, there's probably so many people that you've that you've sat with and that you met in Silicon Valley that even even, you know, a friend of mine, Kevin System, it founded Instagram and he is one of the co-founders of Instagram.


And he he wrote lines of code early on. And actually, you know, I think that was one of the aha moments. I knew him as a friend. And I was like, wait, Kevin, you actually know how to code. You actually built lines of code to build this tool, this platform that reaches so many people like it put a human element to it. And I think the idea of even learning a little bit of what code is and how it builds things, it makes you realize what could be possible.


And I think for people who want to build businesses, you don't have to be the main engineer. I think you. But there is this kind of literacy that I think is important. Yeah.


It's that I mean, it certainly seems to be the new literacy and are one of the new forms of literacy that over time as software eats the world, to borrow Marc andreessen's expression.


If you don't want to be displaced, if you want to build able compete, you need to at least understand the a._b._c.s. Yeah, and easy for me to say with my platform and microphone as someone who's being. Hypocritical since I only did one afternoon off of Rubi with you until you come to my county jail. Until I come to your camp. The other thing is to Tim is that like I part of the reason why I wanted to take a class beyond just wanting to understand how the world was being transformed by technology and what specifically that meant.


But I it's like because I was so intimidated by it, because I work in fashion, because I am not someone who maybe looks like me the most, you know, most people in Silicon Valley or engineers.


I don't know what I wanted. Like there's something in me I think that wanted to do what I think would be the hardest possible thing to do or like, I don't know it and not this had. This was not even about building an organization and helping other people do the same thing. This was just for me. Selfishly, I wanted to learn something really hard. And I think that there's probably a part of me that's like, you know, insecure.


Speaking of about like the fact that I am I know that I'm more than just what people see me on the outside. And I think that using I think that insecurity probably has driven me to want to keep doing more. And it just in I am just a really curious, passionate person. And I think this like I've always been really interested in math and science. And I don't know, I think that that's partially why I tackled this challenge to initially.


It was like, I want to learn what is going to be what do people really think is hard to learn. I want to learn it.


Well, let's so let's talk about challenge for a second and or more than a second. Yeah. And I don't know the attribution of this quote. I really like. Which is everything you want is just outside of your comfort zone.


And I'm sometimes better at practicing that than at others. But I'd love to talk about discomfort for a second term, because I think people I think people have their many misconceptions about anyone who has a lot of public exposure. Like yourself. So one might be. She's just a pretty face, which is not true. Another might be. Oh, it's all come very easily. It's all been very easy. It's just been home runs from day one. So what I'd love to ask you is, could you tell us about you?


Can you can you? We can talk about birth like a dark slash hard time. What prompted it and how you came out of it or a failure that, looking back, helped set the stage or teach you something that led to success later and the more specific, the better. Because I want to humanize this a little bit for people who feel like this, is that you're I think, you know, the I mean, perfect.


So far from perfect. So far from perfect.


It's like beyond it for me. I I think that there have been many failures along the way. But also, I am a really. I am the toughest person on myself.


And let let's let's talk let's talk about let's talk about a specific one.


I mean, there's so many moments I can just think about in my in my fashion career, you know, where I didn't quite I mean, it's it's funny how you define like a failure or even, like dark moments.


I think I've started I I've built my career over the past 10 years of my life. And I was 15 years old when I started that. And I think there's just natural human growth that happens over this 10 years. That's really important. And no matter what you're doing, you need to take those failures and challenge yourself to make yourself grow from them and be better. And for me, I think because I live in a more public, a more public life or aspects of my life or more public, those failures or dark, dark, you know, periods of of growing up, of coming into your own life, of growing into your own body, like that's even more criticized or the you know, more people have have can see it.


And so I think for me, I definitely. So many different periods in my life where like, you know, being in the profession that I'm in, it's very focused on like the outside in your body. And as a teenage girl, like growing into your body, I mean, there's so many times I've gone into a fitting where the clothes don't fit. And that just has made me feel so shitty about myself. And it's not necessarily my fault, not necessarily the clothes, but it's just it's shitty.


It makes you feel horrible. It's made me feel horrible about myself. And I think there was kind of this point progressively through my career that I was like, I am so much more than just like my measurements or my body. I I have so many ideas. I've got so much drive. I know that I have so much to give the world. And I really want to help other people. And I know that I'm not necessarily doing that or the the extent of my self-worth or value cannot be just on on on fitting the clothes or not.


And I think that there was like a real shift in an in me and just understanding like I don't know, understanding how and why and what to do to keep growing.


So are there any particular, for instance. Routines, habits on a daily or weekly basis that help you to continue functioning at a high level or that just help you. Yeah. Like, what are some specifics? My listeners always love the specifics. Are there any particular. I love meditating.


You know, I think that how do you how when? How long? I practice meditating.


So I'm not as probably good or disciplined as many of your listeners out there. But whenever I can, I get to the point of, do you use an app? I use aheads. I use headspace. I learned T.M.. But I just do it whenever, wherever I can. So, you know, this morning, getting ready, I wake up, stretch, breathe that put in, you know, 10 minutes of headspace, go to the gym or vice versa workout and then meditate and then start my day.


You know, I really have learned how important it is to take care of myself mentally as well as physically, because I think, you know, part of being in just part of part of life is staying, you know, staying mentally healthy and balanced. And I think especially in an industry that that there is so much volatility.


I mean, to the point of models and turnover, there's a lot of there's a lot of failures daily of jobs you don't get or things that you're. I have been to I've been told that I'm too tall, too short, too fat, too skinny to do this, too everything. I mean, it's like. And that is such a that if that doesn't mess with your head as a teenage girl growing up anyway, then then I mean, come on.


So again, for me, you know, having an amazing support group around me, having like really my family, my friends like and then having outlets that fill my cup. So for me, investing in my learning sincerely is something I love. I love learning new things. I love learning from people. I love experiencing new things. And I love helping people, not for the sake of like any reason other than just. I love sharing opportunities for other people to better themselves their lives, too.


Well, let's talk about one outlet slash maybe stress release valve, which is the the exercise.


Yeah. So what is what is what is your morning? What is a sample morning exercise routine look like? Totally. Very specifically. And how how long's it take? What what exercise are you doing?


Okay. So I'm using I grew up playing every sport, doing ballet every day. I grew up super, super active. And I live a really busy life today.


And I'm on a plane all the time. I mean, you know, it's not easy to fit it in. But for me, I make sure that I fit in like a combination of cardio and a combination of strength training. So I feel best when I'm strong, not skinny. And tell it. Tell us about our recent workout. I said this morning I woke up, meditated and worked out for forty five minutes. I had time for it.


And I did have breakfast before you were there. After after I worked out. And a combination of running, biking and some lightweights and just I kind of do whatever I can whenever I can.


So like, if I'm in if I'm in the south of France on a photo shoot, I'll go for a run and a swim. If I'm here in Austin, I'll go for a run across that cool bridge and like go tour around whatever is available, whatever is available for strength training.


If you had to pick only a handful of exercises that you could do that seem to get you the most bang for the buck.


What would they what would they be? What comes to light? Burpees. So much. I hate them so much. You hate them. But it's a love, hate, love, hate. Because I dislike I hate them so much.


They just know they're probably good for me.


Burpees things that you can do anywhere. So like planking, you know, plinking out or exercises like things that I do in my hotel room, like I don't have time to go down to the gym. So just simple things like like sit ups, push ups, dips. All sorts of portable, really boring things like that. I mean, boring the effective.


I want to get into specifics because I'm always curious when I meet someone who travels as much as you do, it makes it very clear that the I haven't been able to work out with some traveling excuses, utter bullshit. And I'm always curious how people make do.


And so I've talked to Triple H. Otherwise known as Paul of Esq, a fascinating guy and he'll use stationary bike for it or elliptical for say even 10 15 minutes when he first arrives anywhere after you have time zones and it seems to fixed fixed jet for him. Danzig when they were traveling around touring, the very first things they would do is there choose a hotel based on the gym that was available? Oh, 100 percent. And it's like Bruce Lee would always travel with his with his running shoes because, you know, he knew no matter what, if other things weren't available, he could run.


So and it just goes on and on and on. I travel with a number of different bands as well as in flight at all.


And it's incredible what you can do, particularly if you learn calisthenics, exercises like burpees or pistols or like it squats. You can get a brutal workout in your own hotel room or. Jocko Willink is a retired Navy SEAL commander. He'll travel with or he won the suit, travel with the whole if he wants to do pull ups and he can't push pull ups or grab one of the towels from his room in the hotel. Go find the parking structure and throw it over a bar and do Pull-Ups with the towels.


So it's like there's two observations having. Number one, there's always a way. But secondly, that these the most the highest way is always me in the highest functioning, seemingly busiest people I've met. Almost all make a point to move on a daily basis in some fashion. It's so important for me in my life. It's it's crucial. Forget even about how, you know, it makes you look, but how makes you feel and just you.


For me, brain mental, emotional balance, I think. And focus and clarity. It's like you can't I can't start my day without doing something. And to the point of whatever it is, you know, I in my suitcase always had my running shoes. Always have. Always have bands. I always have ankle weights, which is really funny when I'm going through airport security and I've got like two ankle weights that look like bombs and, you know, they're like lead and go aids.


And I get stopped every time and get, you know, questioned ankle ankle weights and podcasts.


It goes like a bunch of batteries and cables.


Yeah. We need to talk to you. We're a high register. American history x this you don't know. I'm very, very bald and have sort of arrest. Wrestler. He looked to me. Not now. Sit.


Let's let's chat about investing and buying. Investing. I mean. Investment of time, energy. Maybe in a particular relationship, I'm going to I'm going to say you can't answer with your family. Yeah. All right. So roll them out. But what would you consider one of the best investments you've ever made? And that that could be. For instance, Amelia Boone has been on the podcast, four time world champion of school horse racing for her at the time.


She was and still is a lawyer. But it was the first foreigner and $50 entry fee for the first. I think it is world's toughest model Chinen of winning, which open up this entirely new career doesn't have to be something like that. But in my case could potentially be the idea to put in the time do a six episode test for the podcast. Yeah. Holy shit, that was supposed to be a side gig because to burn out writing books now turned into a whole thing.


What comes to mind for you when you think about some of the best investments of time, energy, money or decisions? So a number of things. One. The first per high heels that I ever owned were $20 high heels from Target. Then I learned how to quote unquote walk. And that I those came in very handy when I started my fashion career. And I, with my first paycheck ever bought a red KitchenAid mixer that still sits on my counter to this day.


And thousands of cookies have been made from that little mixer. And I got the idea of starting a vegan cookie charity project from my passion for baking. And and that led On2 to a whole fun project.


And take take a few senses just to explain what that is so that it's really just what it sounds like.


It's a charity project focused on donating school lunches to kids through selling cookies, which I love to I love to eat cookies. I love to make cookies. And I wanted to kind of have a bake sale.


I've sort Giovannini partners and we partnered with Momofuku Milk Bar. You know, for those who don't know that, look at it. Oh, look it up. Must must visit when you're in New York.


And and we made cookies and we donated over a million school lunches from us. From the sales of these cookies. And that was just this kind of first project where I was. It was really my idea. And and this something that I built and used my my voice to build it. Take an idea and actually bake a cookie and bake a an impact into that product.


And so we got that. We got the heels, which I typically can't walk in those issues as as a female in fashion. The KitchenAid mixer is. So KitchenAid, if you're listening, I think I'm sure Carly has very reasonable endorsement rates so you can reach out and investing in time.


You know, honestly, two things. One, I I applied back to NYU because I love learning and I wanted to be back in an environment where I could keep growing and learning. And that was at 20 years old. That was after five years already of working full time. And so I invested back in being a student. And I. And that also led me to taking a coding class. And that led me to starting code. Cossey. And what did you go into learn?


I wanted to learn anything. Everything.


I have so many things that I ask a question. I want to I know you're really a curious person, I feel like.


But I want to I want to dig into the motivation for once. So I have some friends, very, very smart, very accomplished, who either didn't ever go to college or dropped out of college. And some of them for for some of them going back and getting the diploma was just a.


And this is not a bad motivation at all. But they had carried some type of like defensiveness and insecurity about having not gone to college and finished. Was that any piece of it present?


I was planning on becoming a physician, a doctor, emergency room doctor, something like my dad. And so I. Oh.


Or go to business school or go to some. I always planned on having a very good, at least getting a college degree. And I don't think there's an element of of wanting to kind of keep learning more. Keep doing more. Not for the sake of getting a degree, but for the sake of being in an environment where I can keep expanding my horizons. And I think the thing is like I. And I I have that through my job as well.


There's so many ways that I'm able to learn just by traveling and meeting people. And I and I feel like everybody has that.


It's not just I mean, I am a unique situation. I get to travel to crazy places.


But then I think just it's kind of a mindset, a mentality, a perspective of just. Keeping your eyes and ears open. Do you have any favorite classes or professors besides the coding? Anything come to mind? I took a feminism class at NYU, which was really fascinating for understanding the history, the history of feminism, academic perspectives, the different waves of feminism. A lot of a lot of academic reading around the topic beyond just kind of rah rah.


Girl power.


All right. You mentioned a number of things you mentioned. Is are there any purchases in recent memory? This is one of my rapid-fire questions. And it's a bit of an awkward transition from feminism. So I apologize to people for that. But are there any particular purchases that have had a very positive impact on your life? Ideally, of the less than 100 or less of a thousand dollar variety. I love journaling on on airplanes. I. I sit for, you know, especially that flight back to Saint Lewis is only two hours.


So it's like two hours of an interrupted time. And every airplane that I'm sitting on, I always journal and Brett brain dump ideas, grocery lists I've had.


It's really pretty remarkable looking back at those journals and thinking how much of the things that I listed out of dreams and goals that I've been able to tick off and accomplish. And I think that an investment of of a journal, a great Moleskine, certainly has been worthwhile. And really just something that I think is a great exercise. And. I really love like actually, like I said, taking care of myself and my mind and body. And so, like, I always have all these in my suitcase.


I've got all these crazy supplements like Moon Moon Juice Dust. They have like brain dust and beauty dust and it's like crazy potions of like ush.


Wiggen done things that I like.


I'm a total sucker and believer that, like, you know, that the side travel with all these potions in a suitcase along with my bands and ankle.


It's when you use the notebook's. Do you? What does APJ look like? And how do you follow up? So what I'm curious to know is how you how things make it from the page into reality. Do you go back and figure out what next steps are? You write down next steps in a particular way. And people have so many different ways of approaching this medium. In my case in my journal, I wish it was Hadera here, but I always make a little box in the bottom right hand corner and that's for next steps based on anything on that page.


And so every bottom right hand corner has next steps and then I'll go through and back at it. That was a stupid idea. And it's not for now. And I'll just highlight I'll do a second pass and then highlight the kind of dominos that I think will topple as many other dominoes as possible. But how when you brand up or when you put these things on on paper and walk us through what that looks like. Yeah, I'll. There's also this app that's called Wanderlust.


And for for actually having a more digital version of those lists. And then also things like Slack are great to the notebook is more just like my real personal kind of deepest, darkest thoughts and and and ideas and goals. And like nobody's judging. Hopefully nobody's reading them.


But then I think the organization. Yeah. I mean, I love this is the way your brain works. I think my brain is not the most organized.


I have I have a lot of ideas. And I think it's actually taken a lot of discipline to to kind of keep everything moving forward and to. I definitely think it's like going through those lists and following up with the people that that I need to continue the conversation with or I've got an amazing team, I've got a great partner who is building is helping me build codes, classy building all those assets. Her name's Penny Thow. She's amazing.


And I I feel like it's a really collaborative process. Taking those lists and actually make turning them into action is is more that working with my team to to bring them to life?


Well, one thing I've noticed.


And tell me if this is off base or not. But in doing a lot of homework on you, putting your dossier, first of all, I need to send cookies to your friends.


The crazy the crazy Bulgarian. Gary. Oh, my God. Crazy Bulgarian.


I know you're listening. You're in luck. They do. Easy. Will you need some cookies? Don't forget me. I get you some cookies, too. I'll say it's for my cheek. David, I might actually break that rule. Yeah, I have to be careful around cookies. One of those very little portion control comes to cookies. It turns out.


But I send you healthy ones that also some of them know that you can address them to somebody else and then I'll see them anyway.


The pattern that seemed to pop up was and I think this actually makes you a lot smarter than I am in some really deep ways is when I go through my notebook and I write down what needs to be done next, like what do I need to do next?


And it seems like as I've looked through a lot of your history, you are much better at doing one thing that's really important that I need to improve upon, and that is not asking what do I need to do next necessarily, but who do I need to talk to next? And whether it's Kevin Systrom or, say, Casey Neistat, who's also been on the podcast. Really, vlogging, I've had a lot of trouble. It didn't even occur to me to ask for help now because I think I have all the answers.


But I do want to burden people with that or there's some weird baggage that I carry, which is why Amanda Palmer at one point, the musician really is. And her book has really helped me to learn how to ask for for help. But is that accurate?


Am I all never said that? I mean, again, I'm somebody who didn't get a college degree, a business school degree. And I'm trying to build businesses and a non-profit and scale scale that impact in and grow my team and be a boss. I mean, there's so many things that I am learning as I go. And I think that what I have what I really value is the people that that I can lean on as mentors or advisors in figuring it out.


And I think that that's a really important thing that I've that I have, that I also kind of had this awakening where where I was like, I am in the room with extraordinary people and I'm being afforded that opportunity because of my my job, my day job, being a model, working on big advertising jobs, working in an industry with a lot of creatives. Like how can I actually best use that to accomplish what what I. What I really dream of, what my biggest goals and ambitions are, and and I think a lot of people sometimes are afraid to ask for help or.


And I definitely have. I ask. I ask. You ask for help.


Yeah. Yeah, I know what my problem is with that. I mean, I've I've gotten better. But I it's one of these self-defeating habits of isolating myself. That is kind of. I do. It's like it's a default that I need to continually work on. I get better for periods. And then I'm like, I need to figure this out. We'll figure this out. Like, sit down with my notebook. Not always the ideal tool of choice.


So I do revisit. Amanda, need your help? I already read your book.


If you look at the last handful of years, are there any particular habits, beliefs, tools that have had a tremendously positive impact on your life besides things you mentioned already? Yes, or can't be, say, meditation or headspace or. Yes.


You know, I think just learning by doing. I for a long time, you know, over the past years, I find it so interesting to just see how much the whole world has changed in so many ways.


You know, you mentioned Casey Neistat. I had a conversation with him a number of years ago where I want to talk about busy.


Yeah. Have a look up. Casey, nice.


Yeah, he's he's amazing. And he really helped me realize that I could not just be a canvas for creators, but I could be a creator myself. And and I think there was kind of this overall shift in certainly in fashion in social media, enabling a platform and a voice for everyone. Doesn't matter if you're the model, your voice is is can be heard in the same way the brand or designers can. And and that extends for everyone. And that's beyond just fashion.


But there is this kind of shift in my own perspective of realizing that my ideas had value and that I could be a creator and share what I was experiencing and learning and doing beyond just what was translated by somebody else. Or I could be I could be heard. How do I think it didn't have to just be seen, but I could also be hurt, you know. And I think that there was something really empowering in that. And that's been a kind of collective shift over the years.


And I think this kind of democratization of of ideas and of voices and the this kind of instead of just a handful of of people in power at the top, like everybody has the opportunity to to build something to their ideas. And and that's to the point of like code being this ability to actually actualize that, to to realize that to to have ideas that whether it's a problem you're facing or a an idea for an account for a company or an idea for making impact, I mean, being able to actually build that, even if you're a 15 year old girl.


I just I think that there's something so exciting about like there being no rules. And I feel like a lot of the rules that maybe existed in the world or in the industry that I work in 10 years ago are no longer the case. And I think it's exciting to see what what is ahead of us.


That's exciting. Yeah. I mean, there there's certainly still top down power and there are certain things that require political relationships and so on.


But more and more so the ability to develop bottoms up power is is available to anyone who is willing to learn and compete. Yes, that's the goodness. The bad news potentially is you better fucking compete because guess what? When there are, say, three to four billion additional people coming online in the next handful of here is right. You have to compete against everybody else. And I think that's a very good thing. But it also means you can learn from everybody and that information is available.


So just a few more questions. Billboard, you've probably heard this question before. I'd like to ask it, but if you can put a few words, a word, a quote, anything on a billboard can't be an advertisment to get a message out to millions or billions of people, metaphorically speaking. What might you put on the billboard? Mm hmm. I feel like that's so that there are so many things that I probably should be putting on that billboard.


But one thing that my dad always used to really hammer home to me and my sisters is like we would come home from school. And and if one of us got a bad grade or something, he would say, like, did you give it your best? Like, only you actually really know. Like, did you give it your best? Did you study the best you could? Did you go in there like as focused as possible? Do you give it your best?


And and and and I think that there's something really important to always just keep in mind is like, give it your absolute best and also be present. I think that's the other thing, too. Those are two things that I that I always kind of think about to myself, like, am I doing my absolute best? Yes. Then like, cut myself a break even if I can't compare my. To anyone else, because my best only I know what that actually is and and I think being present is a really important exercise always.


Did you give it your best? That's a really empowering question.


Yeah, I feel like you are giving your best, at least from the outside looking in.


I'm definitely trying the best I can. I mean, you don't have all the answers. I think that's one thing, too. I'm twenty five years old and like all of my I'm far from perfect and but I've sincerely just given it my best. Every step of the way and taken opportunities that I've been able to have and and make the most of them learn from them, keep growing. Never kind of been satisfying or staying complacent. And then also thinking about how I can help others along the way.


Very exciting year ahead of you, as I'm sure we'll be many, many years of excitement ahead of you. I'm always super eager to support anything related to enabling through education. I mean, that's been a real focus of mine with a number of different organizations over the last 10 years or so. What's. Closing comments, might you have an ask of the audience?


Suggestion to the audience, certainly, if they can learn more about how to code or share that with girls or people who may want to attend one of your camps. What what would you like to share? Ask of or recommend to the audience if you have an incredible audience and anyone out there listening? I asked just if you know any young women between the ages of 13 and 18 who you think would benefit from learning to code or would be interested. Send them to Kotov class e-com to apply for our free camps.


We're gonna have a thousand spots. This is a really, really big summer of growth for us. How long are the camps? The camps are two weeks long. 9 to 5 Monday through Friday and they are action packed. There's so much that the girls do over the course of these two weeks. And we are growing to 50 camps in 25 cities across the country. So it's a big summer for us. And we want to we want to get as many amazing young women in these in these classes and in these camps.


So send them to cope with classes that come to apply code with Klaus Seacom K O D E.


With hopefully you guys can spell that k l o s s y. Dukkha was the age range again, 13 to 18, 13 to 18.


So think think about this for a second, folks. Q May I say I don't know any 13 8 year old girls, all right. Do you have any daughters? Do your friends have any daughters? Are you a teacher with female students who might benefit from this? Consider it. This is in many, many respects the new literacy. And I'm going to get off my lazy ass and stop procrastinating tonight.


You actually give it a shot? Yeah. Talk about where's Waldo that easy to pick out.


Who's the bald shiny gnome among the 12 to 18 year olds? Oh, why is Tim Ferriss here? The boy will let it.


So Cody's closet ICOM people can find you everywhere, of course. Karlie Kloss at Karlie Kloss. Twitter, Instagram, YouTube. If you had. Is there any one of those three that you'd prioritize for applying or for? I've noticed for people who want to I love Instagram. I that's my first make.


That sounds like a native environment for you. So Instagram at Karlie Kloss code with classy is at code with classy on all the socials and code with classy dot com. Thank you so much for taking the time today. Thank you. tems is really fun. And for people listening as always, we'll have links to everything we've discussed, including the Web sites, social books, etc. in the show notes. Tim Dobb blog for Science Podcast. And until next time, thank you for listening.