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Whether the cocaine and the nicotine come from 15 years ago in Egypt.


Oh, we got the drug testing guys here. I don't think they're doing any drug testing back in those days. No way to kind of figure out what is they're just experimenting. So we really go deep here. Well, it's interesting about the pyramids and the Sphinx.


Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Hot Rocks, and I'm in Britain, and I'm Mike Tyson. We got a great guest to be.


Okay, can we get a great. Get the better. The better.


Can we just get the best people in here? Man We've got Jeff Novitzky, a.k.a. the Golden Snitch.


Oh, no, I don't. That's not a golden either. Discover of people that's doing devilish and wicked things that are hurting people physically.


I like that interpretation, too. Well, Jeff, it's great to have you, man. Yeah. Thanks for having me, guys. Appreciate it. It's an honor. It's honored to be here with you.


This is explaining your situation to the people. Who are you, Jeff? Yes. So my current role on the vice president of athlete health and performance with UFC, my my main role with the UFC is I oversee what I believe is the world's best anti-doping program in professional sports. And I based that not off of opinion, but off of experience. Before I came to the UFC, I was a federal agent in the United States for about 23 years and about halfway through my career ran into an investigation called BALCO Laboratories, and it turned out to be one of the highest profile performance enhancing drug distribution cases really in the world.


And so thereafter, I kind of became that point person where anybody, not only in the U.S., but really worldwide. Any time you saw somebody investigating something that came across steroids or growth hormones or things in sports, inevitably they called me up and just asked for advice on how I worked my case.


So really, the last 12, 13 years of my career, I mean, I talk to agents in the United States and Spain and France and Australia. Any time anybody came across something, they'd usually pick up the phone to call me to get my advice on what they were seeing and potentially how to work it. So former athlete myself, I mean, I'm just fascinated by it, fascinated by what these drugs can do. Fascinated by the temptations that these athletes fail to do it.


And there's a lot of temptation to listen. I don't even blame the athletes. You know, I can't blame them. You know what this is going to give you and give you your dream. This is going to give you a dream. I'll put you so close to your dreams. You you're going to get them. You're going to touch them. It's just it's hard to even say, look, this is what and this is the truth. If the athlete very few athletes could say it's one of them better than him, it's clean.


I want to see my pet and a man for me. Can I be him? You know, we want to believe that. But we have.


But I can make sure I'm better if I take this, though, I guarantee me to be better.


You know, it's tough for some of us don't like the don't like the touch. We really are. We really, really one of the losers. Sometimes we doubt who we are. You know, we are that great energy. We doubted sometimes.


So it could be it could be fake. It's easier to say this think that this would be the. Yeah, it make me better. Yeah. But then you find people that you say, I won't take it. I think I'm the best in the world. No one could beat me. I'm going to fight them without it. So, Jeff, you really focused have or at least, you know, much of your career has been focused on performance enhancing drugs, correct?


And yeah, I mean, I absolutely 100 percent agree with Mike. And a lot of people were surprised with that. You know, people ask me like, oh, you know, all these athletes must think that, you know, you hate them. They're wrong. I'm exactly in Mike's camp. I completely got why they made that decision.


And, you know, if I'm in my early 20s and I'm a professional baseball player in the late 90s and I see what's going on in baseball and I'm coming up from the minor leagues into that major league clubhouse. And it's my dream to play in the major leagues. And I realized very quickly that unless I get on this program I had, my time here is limited and and the reward for having a great season, millions of dollars come from, you know, that type of background.


It completely changes your life, your family's life. And who is not going to make that, you know, take it would be the rare person that would not choose to give someone that the money and everything on hand is enough money for everybody to have over and over again.


And still we don't have it. And you think I won't take that chance?


Yeah, I remember playing in the NFL, you know, making it to the league and then, you know, performance enhancing drugs in the NFL or I didn't see many guys taking it. I think the policy in the league is strict enough at least to catch the common ones. There might be some guys doing HGH or some undetectable stuff. Maybe you can talk a little bit, speak to that about, you know, what is detectable and what isn't.


But, you know, for me, it was like some of these guys I looked up to my whole life as a young player, doing everything clean, coming into the league. You know, now guys are I'm being taken by a veteran into the training room to get a shot at it all before the game, because that's just the way it's done. Come on, come get this shot. You'll feel like a million bucks and you'll feel like you can run through a wall.


Well, you know, one thing I notice it's very evident with the NFL is that, you know, and I see this and I've talked to athletes, there's constantly a risk reward calculation going on in their heads. The rewards are obvious.


These there's no doubt about it.


Anybody says like on steroids, growth hormone doesn't really work, is full of shit. They don't know what they're talking about. It works. Yeah, as good as you can imagine it working.


So, you know, play that off. What the penalty is in the NFL for first time now in the NFL, it's a four game suspension. You're missing a quarter of the year.


So the first suspension for games. What what is it after that? I mean, I should know, but I maybe doubled maybe or maybe a season. Yeah.


Eventually they're going to make a chemical that's going to camouflaged it.


Yes, I'm talking about. So maybe you're right. I mean, there are these chemists out there and they're in the back yard. So they are they make stuff in their garage, in the back yard doing incredible genius shit.


Unless, you know, in anti-doping, what you're looking for, you can't find it for whatever drug is out there. There has to be a specific test that recognizes that drug. So what these chemists are doing is taking a steroid, a known steroid and adding an extra add a molecule, whatever on it. And it's still retains the benefits of the steroid, but it won't show up on a traditional test unless the science finds out about it and creates a test for it.


So it's a constant cat and mouse game conscious thing.


I was telling a couple of you that I was kind of havin fun with my dick when Dick is not getting heart failure, if they come over Mike, I got some fully to shoot in the head. He is never going to go down, Mike.


No shit.


I wanted to do it so bad. I wanted to do so badly, so scathing. It's not like I'm going to be a dick to allow you. It's going to last forever. Make it never go down. I fuck. I wanted something. You know, I, I agree with for me. Yeah. See I think that's neat. Oh shit. Oh Mike. Don't believe my Transmeta fucking my people. I think you need a long needle.


Fuck no.


That's another thing I got to have, you know, my biggest star. Fuck no fuck I can do that.


But I was horrible dude. What we were talking earlier before we came in here about the whizzinator. Oh so yes. Now and and really I mean it's I say this all the time, how much respect I have for our athletes, because not only are they having to take a pee in front of somebody, but somebody who's up close and personal on their knees watching that pee come right out of them. And that's because of this device that, you know, in the past it was a whizzinator, which was a prosthetic.


Yeah. It would be off with you put clean urine. You know, I put my baby's urine and I'm like, I'm I'm hoping I'm hoping that one day I use my. My wife, the baby, Ben, I hope he comes back pregnant this year and not the way I'm going to use you know, I'm going to use the kid because I got scared to piss my comeback. Pregnant. You're pregnant?


Yeah, I think that's happened before. And I think have a urine sample. And I came back, said, Sir, you're pregnant. Yeah, that's great. Of I guess I did hear hear that happened since I was afraid of that. Yes.


Well, did you have the right color, whizzinator? Because it was I don't know how it had a white one. Brown one was that I heard that this guy, this guy was so fucking macho. He was scared. I wept it out him I take the fucking cover those macho guys. Look at me. You got to play those things. Yeah. Yeah. It's the worst job of it is not.


So our testers, not only are they closely observing, you know, our athletes in a very intimate way, they're waking our athletes up five, six in the morning because we talked about earlier and a good, solid anti-doping program. You could never know when the testers come in. Could be early a night, could be late or early in the morning.


That Kelly in the prison system, they learned that from the prison system because that's what they do in a prison. They never let you know they come. We sleep. Don't get drug on drug test. You piss right here. Really? Yeah, right. Here we go. Get a piece right here.


Could you could you imagine having to be that guy or girl? I mean, we have some of the toughest individuals on the planet Earth and some of the baddest areas on the planet Earth.


They live and knocking on somebody's door in a bad neighborhood if nothing ever any good news when someone's knocking on your door at 5:00 or 6:00 a.m., knock on the door from inside and not go down in training camp, the compound on your door at about four thirty in the morning.


Check out that we had an instance two weeks ago, so one of our fighters knock on the door.


I think it's five thirty six a.m. opens it up and this woman says, hey, I'm here to take your blood. So this guy's like, OK, this is probably a UFC test. Come on in. So he starts giving the blood and starts noticing that this isn't usually how this happens.


Oh, he's taking a shitload of blood out of me. So he goes, this is more than than you normally take, isn't. She goes, oh, John, don't worry.


And John, because my name's Dan.


Oh, no, I get them at the wrong house. I wouldn't believe it if you had the wrong house. So I got it was the same.


No, but the next street over. What are the fucking odds that someone at six in the morning is there to collect blood and the persons used to it? Yeah. I mean, just that would never happen in a million years. That's a nightmare. First of all, I'm curious what the UFC policy is, because you said that you watched Henries episode Cejudo. I did. You know, we love Cody Gerbrandt here. He's yeah.


What happens to Cody AFCO left off now this guy beats me. He Youzhny shit. He beats me. Now we finally see what happens to me. How do I get that. How do I get a fight with him. He's clean. How does he get that belt removed. How do I get my title back? Because I want to beat fairly.


Yeah. So I mean TJ's belt was removed. He you know, gave it up. Yeah. But what happens for me. Yeah. For, for, I mean that's a question for, for Cody. That's a question for Dana. But I mean I would assume based on coming right back in the picture again. Yeah.


Come number one contender. Yeah. Again that that's in Dana's world. Not necessarily mine, but that would be my guess. Absolutely right. Yeah.


So talk about EPO. Yep. That's that is similar to blood. That is blood doping. That's like we won't catch cramps and shit. No.


So you want more red blood cells in your body because that carries more oxygen to your muscles and allows you to work harder and longer and allows you to recover quicker.


That isn't that dangerous to you if you have. Yeah, the danger with blood doping and EPO is the more red blood cells you have, the thicker your blood becomes. And if you have any type of blockage in your body, you know, in a vein or whatever it can, that those red blood cells can block it up quick. Give you a great example of this. So in professional cycling, EPO kind of came on the scene in the late 80s and what these cyclists were realizing was, holy shit, like I pinch prick myself with a needle and the blood barely even comes out because it's so thick.


So they would set alarms for 3:00 in the morning, have a tall glass of water next to the red, wake up, chug the water and get on the floor. And do you know, thirty or forty pushups in order to keep their blood circulating for fear of my blood becoming so thick, it's going to clog up. Why?


I'm so super, super dangerous if you're not doing it right and get that red blood cell count up too high that there were cyclists in the late 80s that were dying.


I mean, some of the best in shape athletes on the planet dying in their late 20s and early 30s of strokes and heart attacks.


And I know it's so ironic when you say something like that, when you just you know, when you see an average person like a young athlete or something young person, then you're thinking, I'm thinking, but you're athletic. Not that conscious yet. And they think about it, what I give up, I'm 20, I'm going to die 50 50 fucking only have 30 fucking years to do it. I'd rather die at 30 and live the life of a God.


Yeah, yeah.


There's a there's a famous poll they take every four years, the Olympics, and they ask Olympic athletes where I came from.


Glory, yeah. I won't go.


I don't even want the money and give me some glory of being fucking abnormal with a normal motherfucking is. Give me I have to give me money. Give me some I know my name and pat me on my back.


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Yeah, they they pull the Olympic athletes every four years saying if there was a pill that allowed you to make winning a gold medal, oh, Harper would take ten to twenty years off your life. Would you choose to do that? And every year that 90 percent like hell.


Yeah, well, we don't have kids yet. We don't know the concept of loving our kids more than we love ourselves yet. Yeah. When we get that conflict, our concept of life change, we want our life. We want to spend time with this child.


Would you ever take any performance enhancers, make and take fucking. I didn't marijuana.


Yeah, we'll talk about that, Jeff, because you're you're actually an advocate for CBD. And you guys, I think, have one of the most forward thinking policies on it, as far as I can tell. Yeah.


So just it was like last year, the year before CBD became allowed to take an all time.


So there's our fighters can take it, you know, without restriction any time marijuana or THC only tested for in the in competition period, which would be way in day or fight day.


You said something earlier that I thought was interesting on the THC side of things, which is there is a threshold, it's 150 nanograms per milliliter.


Now, that may not mean much to the scientists, but, you know, it's probably what we recommend to our fighters is if you stop using it, you know, the problem is everybody metabolizes differently. So it's I'd hate to tell, you know, Mike's one of our fighters says, hey, Geoff, when should I stop? You know, and I tell him a week he just happens to metabolize differently and he pops and it's on me. So I'm always out of an abundance of caution giving them a little longer window.


But the reality is, you know, a week or two likely would, you know, put you under that limit. I'd love to see something, you know, along the lines of, like alcohol. I mean, you could never you're not allowed to be drunk to go in and box or fight May, but you're not tested for alcohol.


Listen, you've got inspectors in the lock and fighters that they've been on. They can fight without drinking. They got to be drunk to fight. They can't they don't got the nerve. They don't have the nerve. They've got to be drunk. World champion. They've got to be done. Can't do this shit.


And they go without alcohol. My right hand to God. Yeah.


I've seen guys take shots of Frankie round the world champion beat the first guy to be that a record like eighty nine and oh I'd be an alcoholic.


So while we have a threshold and this is an interesting story, I found this out yesterday and connection here to Mike. So while we have this threshold so you can have some in your system, you just can't be over an amount. Some states where we go, the athletic commissions have rules where you can have none. And you know what? Who state still has a no tolerance rule.


Where did you test positive for marijuana? In Detroit, Michigan. We still go to Michigan and they don't allow one ounce or iota THC from marijuana, which is fucking ridiculous.


You could smoke a joint a month before the fight and still have some in your state do that because they want to collect the money. They're financial. Yeah, I don't know, maybe a little that may just them trying to, you know, impose their moral issues on it. And then I ignore people.


There's no place in, you know, an anti-doping program, in an anti-doping program.


You're trying to create a fair and level playing field. What difference does it make if somebody, you know, smokes something a month out? What difference, in my opinion, does it make if someone's nervous and can't sleep the night before a competition? Yeah, that would have to be some marijuana to just relax himself.


And the guy got me. No, he's really big shooting at me. I mean, it's like giving you an advantage the next night when you're going to fight is. It should be debilitating, if anything, you know, so or so fighters or are they tested the day of the fight so they can be tested the day of the fight, the night of the fight, the day.


But they can be tested any to any time. It's OK.


Oh, they normally test you like a week before you fight. They do. They do. The AIDS testing all that stuff the week before the fight.


Yeah. That's for the commission for medical purposes to make sure hepatitis, you know, AIDS, those types of things for our testing, the anti-doping testing. Ah, the UFC fighters subject to the test 365 days a year, 24 hours a day.


They never to always be afraid to take the AIDS test to you do that before every test you or before every fight you do an AIDS test. How and listen.


Now listen, the next thing, I'm at a fight and so time to do more things about the fight, the main event, and then a doctor, the friend of mine come in and he's not fighting the man. I don't think he's ever going to fight again. And I'm thinking, wow, he must really be hurt by something right now. Know my. He'll find out. He didn't want to tell me right now. We're going to find out.


But hearing and he found the guy had HIV and they cancelled this fight, the main event. Wow.


And I'm like, fuck, if he got I know you don't get more pussy than me and don't do shit that I do. I'm like, fuck that.


Oh, fuck.


Oh, shit, that's crazy. Like, fuck, man.


So this is awesome. We have I love it. But you said something interesting earlier as well about how THC the concern is that maybe having THC in your system during the fight could help you endure more damage.


That's at least the theory. I mean, I don't know. It's there's weight to that because, I mean, I yeah, I've never I'm not a fighter, so I wouldn't I wouldn't know.


Yeah. Yeah. What do you think?


Listen, I know this, right?


This is what I know I know three of us all had altercations with one another and we put some liquor in this room will kill each other, you know. And I know we all had altercation and we started smoking some. We will start taking selfies with another shit.


Right. The mere fact that I love you, Minnifield bullshit. And then I, I didn't know that because I've been in that situation I thought would affect the both of them do. And that's all I know from that perspective. But how would it relate to you competing to fighting another another human being. How do you like. It's an interesting story about it.


Like what you say I'm smoking weed. Yeah.


Do you think it would help you? It would help with anxiety. And that's why I smoked. I was a little too paranoid because I smoked the night before rest and cool out. Yeah. Yeah. I believe they helped me. I was relaxing to fight the fight about the guys. I think it is cheekbone it back. It could be turned around.


I was doing and I was calm. Relaxed. Yeah. You know, and it was and it was really soothing. Yeah.


I mean that's, that's the same story I get from, from our fighters. Absolutely. But I just and it's interesting because I've had you know, I've had talks with the Nevada State Athletic Commission, Bob Bennett, who's their executive director. He's just like me, former federal agent. And, you know, I think they've had some preliminary discussions about, hey, why don't we just get rid of marijuana to be tested altogether? I mean, that's legal in Nevada.


So there's no you know, this this isn't really. But listen, this is when it gets better. Listen, when it comes to drug, because when it comes to drug that, you know, we've all beat cocaine, we call big cocaine drug testing. If they away from me for three days or so, we could beat that. Right. But but we've got 45 days. Yeah. We wait 45 days in our system. And I think if they then a system, it belongs that we come down.


I mean, cocaine comes back and it doesn't belong there, but it's trying to get rid of it, you know.


Yeah, that's interesting. Interesting theory, dude. That's all we've produced. So to do different things, everybody's anyway endogenous cannabinoids that help us with our appetite and our sleep rhythms and our mood.


This makes us hungry. We do some cocaine. We shut down all of our offices, shut down. We don't hear and we don't see losing the illusions. We don't hear shit theCIA. And we are some fucking energy we don't even know about.


Yeah, how about how about nobody ever nobody terms with things that aren't supposed to be in your body.


I think this is real hypocritical in the world of anti-doping is Xanax, Ambien. Some of the opioids talked about this earlier are allowed. But you can't use a little marijuana the night for a fight to sleep. That's just that's flat out wrong. Yeah, I think absolutely.


I mean, do you why? With the kind of why do we think that way? Why find out why is it the greatest think of in that particular field?


Why do they think that way when you were at the FDA just going to bring that up coming from the federal government as it comes to those things? I think the answer is Big Pharma. I think the. That Big Pharma has and these synthetic drugs and how much money that they make for these big pharma companies, the influence that Big Pharma has over lawmakers, they see marijuana as, you know, a potential roadblock to their earnings potential, right?


Well, I think, yeah, I've done almost every drug I can think of, you know, therapy that I smoked crack. It didn't affect me. I did smoke meth before. You didn't forget to see. It wasn't my thing. It didn't affect me. I didn't like it with my stuff like I did.


I did the told way. It changed my whole perspective on life and drugs and all that shit, you know, it's changed everything I ever thought about drugs. It made me think drug ring shit. It's not like this. You can't make me feel like this thing. I can't use you anymore. So what do you do with a drug like that? What do you do with a drug to with the toll like illegal? It's the closest thing to make you have an engagement with God.


Do you know my perspective? You know, about five a.m. or GMT or. Yeah, yeah. And I'm not sure. I think I guess DMT is a schedule one.


It is a schedule one. But speaking of schedule one, how the hell is marijuana? Yes. And the same category as crack cocaine, cocaine, methamphetamine.


How do you even work out? Because, look, I'm not I'm not sitting here a proponent of everybody go out and use marijuana or drugs. But when looking at people with medical conditions, physical condition, psychological conditions, and given a choice between a purely synthetic drug that's, you know, processed by the liver through the kidneys versus a natural plant where there's no evidence of that type of toxicity, I just don't get it.


It's so you know, it's so mixin right. What's that? Nixon Nixon created the DEA in 1973. And look, I was in the front lines of the war on drugs in America.


It's not working for 45 years into it. This is what it is. It's no it's no end to it.


It's no end to drugs and cocaine and all that shit. And there's no end to that. That's never going to end. It's going to be here when our great, great, great, great grandkids die.


It's never going anywhere. Yeah, I can read it. We make it. They told me that all this shit and that we make it. Yeah. Yeah, there's good, intelligent people that I work with that are working it, so it's not for lack of effort, but just the demand is too high.


And you took a quarter of that money and put it into education, rehab for those that needed it and developed the problem. And I think you have a much better society than than what you do now. Talk about prison overpopulation with non-violent drug offenders. I mean, marijuana being a schedule one drug. There's instances where if you sell enough of it, you could be facing a mandatory minimum sentence of 10 years. Yeah, yeah. It's ridiculous.


I think society is realizing that that's ridiculous. And that's why we have and we're getting easier on the marijuana laws. I think we're getting there. I agree with you.


I believe it's just the overwhelming it's almost overwhelming call for change. And I think it is going to be it's a no brainer. And they have to give in is almost like when the Christians became legalized religion, it was so much they couldn't stop it. Chris Christie with the name Constantine, all he had to turn Christian, he just it was overcoming him was crush Christian, him and his children and his children's children. They couldn't stop it. So we had to make that a religion of the country.


Those in Rome know Constantinople with those crowds. What was that? Turkey.


Turkey. Yeah. Yeah. Makes a history guy to man.


Awesome. Yeah. And when you think about marijuana in form, it's like religion is a form of marijuana. Absolutely. You know, there are people who are who actually have a religion about what they mean and that the Rastafarian thought, well, the Rastafarians I think cannabis is a big part of their culture, but it's not like the centerpiece to these people, actually.


It's like a centerpiece of their culture. I told you about that tribe in Africa, the Dogon tribe, who have a yearly cannabis celebration, and they believe that this ancient alien race from the serious stars came down and brought cannabis to it. Serious. The dog stars. There's two of them and be cannabis means two dogs. So they have all these cave paintings about people from the heavens coming down to the earth and giving them this plant because it will bring them peace.


And so, I mean, there are people that are fucking into it.


Yeah, well, it is that, though, you know, I think that there's an intelligence to all this plant life, you know, and somehow in our Western culture, we've convinced ourselves that we know better and that we can create something better in a lab that's safer or at least that's become profitable. So that's the direction it's gone.


You know, I mean, I always try to look at it. It's just because my world from a sport perspective and the reality is, you know, I the UFC is probably one of the most physically grueling.




Damaging to your body over, you know, short and long term sports out there.


And, you know, again, I'm not a proponent of everybody going out and using things, but when you have certain conditions, you're in pain all the time.


And you look at the alternatives that are out there, synthetic, manmade, toxic to the liver, kidney versus a plant.


Yeah, that you know, I think it's unquestioned that, you know, it doesn't have a lot of the addictive properties that an opioid would certainly and that there's no evidence that I've ever found of toxicity. Yeah, man, sure.


Seems to me like are there more reasonable people like you, Jeff, and the FDA and the DEA? They have to do, but their hands are tied.


Yes, it's I struggle with that a lot. I mean, you're tasked to enforce the laws of this country, many of which you may not agree with. And, you know, that's it was tough, definitely.


I guess you have to be the kind of person to take that job, right?


True. I mean, there's like in every walk of life, there's all kinds of law enforcement agents, officers. The majority, in my opinion, with working them are really good people. There's some that. Yeah. That aren't in it for the right reasons.


Maybe. Yeah, yeah.


Maybe they're just fine in themselves. I thought for me to believe, you know, since my concern is hard for me to believe in, really in bad people now. And I think we fucked up the thing with Hoffman to think of people bad.


If they're misguided, they have wrong perceptions of what they think life is and what their happiness is.


I would just challenge you on that with, you know, there's dark and light in the world.


Oh, no doubt about, you know, so maybe there are people who are gravitated towards darkness and evil and I don't know, maybe that's just part of the balance of the universe in the way of us.


Show them the essence of the light. Yeah. Once you find the essence of the light, you can't run back.


Yeah, that's true. It's got to be going down in the government, then we got to have some light in there. Oh, well, it's been awesome having you on now big time.


Yeah. Yeah, it's been great being here, Mike. I mean, I have so much respect for you. Just, you know, growing up in high school in the mid, late 80s and in college, your fights were events.


They were neighborhood get together, really celebrations type stuff. I think everybody tells you that. Yeah. Created so much. Think about it. So when my home was a P.A. moment, a square ring and nobody else fucking existed.


Yeah, well, that's how you had to be, man. I'll tell you another quick story, what you did for me. So, you know, your kids are always the last one to think you have any type of cool factor. Right. And they keep you humble. And mine certainly are like that. My middle one, Kyra, who you met a couple of weeks ago in Vegas. So we were driving into the office that day and Dana's assistant calls me on the phone.


So I put on the speaker in the car and she says her name's Trish. You can say, Jeff, you in the office? I said, no, I'm five minutes out, said Mike Tyson. And some business partners are meeting with Dana and they want you to come in. Mike, I'll be there in five minutes. I look over at my daughter and her mouth is like on the floor and she doesn't get excited about anything.


She's like Mike Tyson, that's all. I'm like, Yeah, go come with me. And I go, Dana is a real family guy. Who am I? Just come in. And so she came in there and got to meet you in for a second. At least I was cool in the eyes of one of my kids.


That doesn't happen very regularly. So thanks. Beautiful. Thank you.


That's awesome. Have you ever been in contact with the NFL drug policy peeps?


Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, back in the BALCO days, there was some NFL players there, so. Yeah, I know Adolpho Birch. Yes. The guy that kind of runs our program and good guy. Yeah. But, you know, they have their own way of doing things and their own agenda and, you know, we'll go to conferences and things like that together. But I don't know how much influence I know I don't have any influence over over the NFL.


What they do.


Do you guys share data on. How many percentages of athletes getting busted and yeah, so I think a real important thing of any anti-doping program is transparency and I think we have the most transparent program out there. So unlike MLB or the NFL, it's like, hey, this guy got suspended for four games and not saying why we release all of our data.


So total number of tests, total number of positives, what the athlete tested positive for. I think that's important because trust, trust is a big if you don't have the trust of your athletes in a program, then I don't care how strong your program is. It falls apart because they may think in the NFL you get a player saying that if Tom Brady test positive, is he really going to be treated the same as, you know, the 47th man on the roster who's a special teams player?


And there's no way at the NFL approving that because you can't see any of these numbers or what's going on in their program. So everything we do is absolutely wide out in the open. That's great, man.


Yeah. There's no trust between the league and the players in the NFL. That's that's us versus the players I've talked to have told me to say, why can't it can never be trusted.


There's always someone that's not being deceitful on either one finds the player or he's the culprit. The outcome is always being deceitful. Yeah.


Oh, man. Look, brother, I don't know. Sorry, I can't call.


Well, Jeff's great having him out. Yeah, great being here. But before I forget, Mark Ratner said say hello to you.


And that's my man. Yeah. Now, listen, McGrattan even the Vegas Athletic Commission for 100000 years. Right. And he's just always been my friend. Oh, he's just he's just very special. You know, he's very special. You know, he won't know he's in the room. He's not in flamboyancy. He's just he's just a good man.


But he did tell me a story. He find you a little bit of money over something, right? He's always he's like, I didn't know how Mike was going to react the next time I saw him after that.


And I love those guys, man. What did he have to fight you? Because I think I beat this man. So sorry. But listen, I'll take it personally, too. I didn't think that they took so fucking long. Why don't you penalize me? Let me go home. They took months and weeks to get this shit done. I gotta take the money. Let me go. Government bureaucracy. Right, is killing me in the witness.


He is killing me. That's crazy about him being after athlete.


Know what the biggest cause for these enhancement drugs are? Paying him a lot of pain and only a lot. Yeah, a lot of athletes are real lonely. Yeah, absolutely. And lonely. Well, that's what we talked about when we talked about, you know, addiction to man. Just because you're in pain, you feel isolated, you know, has nothing really to do with the drugs that you're taking. These addictive substances become addictive because of our own psychology around what the whole we have to feel.


Yeah. In ourselves.


And we don't even know we have a whole. Yeah. He brought to the attention and we have a hole with what we have or what.


I don't have a hole motherfucker. How are you talking about. Let's let everybody know. Thank them. Who are you. Be in touch with who you are because trust me if you don't at this stage get in touch with who you are and get to know this person who this is. I think it's a wasted life. Who are you? Where have you come from? Why are you here? What is your purpose? Really who I am? I'm just somebody my mother and father, they my father, mother, mother, just horny.


When they booming I came the one that they love. He was in love. They wanted to fuck and I came out. And what the hell happened with that purpose for. Oh really. What was the purpose.


The purpose. You came in, you came through that portal. I had no idea if that is that. No, that's from another dimension, dude. Eight zeros than one. Oh, really? We going to a prison?


I hope so. We could talk some people and help from people and be cool. Well, you heard it from Michael. Who are you? Ask yourself. Go deep. Question things here. What's my purpose.


I always wondered who's the first me. Who's the first man in my family. Who is the first man. Where were the what year was he born before Christ. Who was the first. Me. Who's my first. And those come from where did I come from. The first person that was me. My my lineages. My bloodline. The first one. I mean how long were the. Probably goes back pretty far. Two hundred million years. How long ago were they.


Have you traced back. How far have you been able to trace back to him now. How far enough. Yeah I love that in the 20th is still in the twentieth century.


I think nineteenth century. Something like that. I'm going over twenty years. Twenty years. Yeah.


I've gotten back to sixteen twenties. Wow. Yeah. My first. Ancestor that came to America. Her name is Mary BLIS Parsons. She came from England and she came here in about 16, 24. She was on trial for witchcraft three times, got off.


How'd you find that out? My grandmother actually late last year started passing me all this family lineage stuff because I think she's like she wants to pass it on. And I'm the guy in the family that sort of the center, the energy center of my family. So I'm the guy who's getting this information. It's really cool, you know. Fascinating.


You know, I've always wanted the first male of my lineage, the first man of this lineage who have a name.


He probably wasn't even a black guy. He probably was white. Could be a wealthy first one, you know, I mean, that turned me into this originally.


After all those millions of years, hundreds of men that came out like this might have been an alien, bro. You never know who was their first person.


Yeah, that first being only 1890, the 1889 we started filming, documenting. Can you imagine that 1890. We started physically documenting the site before, you know, after writing. Shocking and interesting that we should have a whole part about it, and we still don't believe the people we see in the 20s, the 1980s, we always judging a movement. We don't know who they truly are because they are screen.


Man, in one time, they have screamed, one day they thought having to scream for every inch of your life to have your bathroom photographed that kitchen every moment of your life, you'd be photographed.


Isn't it interesting about man's need or gravitation to create like cave paintings, telling stories before we learned or started the capability of writing things like cuneiform for something in like ancient Mesopotamia? Or was that other civilisations make in Turkey? Ontake. Well, yeah, LANTIS.


Well, with a civilization that's under Turkey that's 9000 years old, that folded in Africa, another country and the Turkey, Africa is not the oldest country in the world. The country countries under African and the other countries have been here. Millennium's we can't even explain it so we can explain who these people were. You understand the messages that they left us because we think we're so superior that we can't even forget the message that they left this year, Stonehenge and all that stuff.


Stonehenge, we haven't even figured that out. Or those heads on Easter Island.


No knows anything. We don't know who we are. How was a figure? Know who we are? Jeff, you have any thoughts on this?


I was on the Great Wall of China. I would last November, Auteuil, I was up there.


It was just to make just felt the need to. The incredible 2000. We'll finish it. Without a doubt.


The most incredible manmade thing I've ever witnessed been a part of it in my life. It was I took that.


I left and got on a plane and flew back to Vegas. That night. I walked in my house and said, was I just walking on the Great Wall of China this morning?


Is this or is this a dream is just really moving. Nothing's moved me like that.


I did the thing that the five miles on the Great Wall. Wow. Really? Yeah, I want to do that. I got home, called my mom and dad and they said, hey, do you remember the story that your grandmother and grandfather told you about that? No, it wasn't.


And they said in the early 70s there were they were retired and they would go on trips. They were one of the first American tour groups go into Russia when it opened up. So they go over to China, they go on the Great Wall, China, who's on the Great Wall with them when they're up their alley?


Oh, I'm like, did they take a picture?


And my mom's like nails before. Like, everybody's walking around with cameras, like, damn, that is a story right there.


That's an amazing story. When I went to when I went to Egypt with the pyramids, I'd like to say Alexander the Great Napoleon, all these guys, when they've been here, all of the great before fought and the you know, this is the place you had to conquer the, you know, Romans, they had to conquer Egypt. That was the light at the time. Yeah, it's amazing, it's amazing. I want to go there really bad to Egypt to see that.


Yeah, Rome is pretty awesome to Rome. Yeah, yeah, Rome, Greece. I went it was last year and a period of two months were in Moscow, Russia, for our first show there. So I'm in Red Square and inside the walls of the Kremlin. You can actually go in it. And then a couple of months later, I'm in Tiananmen Square.


I went to see Mao or didn't see Lenin when I did. It's pretty cool to see him.


And we were reading about that going in there. And they've got people in the Russian army whose sole job is to take care of Lenin's body. So every what month or so they bring them back underneath, underneath where the tomb is and work on and put new skin on, clean them up and imagine that job.


Crazy, what an order to be a part of. All right, that's crazy.


They take that serious when you walk in that tomb, too, like I had I had my hands in my pocket and their soldiers are going, get your hands out of your pocket.


Like you better be available on anything and go there to like this. I want to live in my thinking. So the big line right to the guards that are going to stop the line. And and I go in and they put me in the front seat of bodies and stuff. Then they let me out and stuff. I'm like, wow, that's pretty cool. It's moving. Get to keep moving. Don't stop it. Keep it moving. It's looking at it look like fake skin and everything.


Everything looks fake on them. Looks like rubber. How would you feel about that, about lying in state forever? Yeah, just this is interesting. You said that my wife and I, we went to Egypt, so we went to the museum and we thought a mummy laying to Moses to turn all these guys. They got gold slippers on and, you know, like the things we wear or name the gold. So we look at them and then I'm saying to my wife with the eagle that they had, they probably love people watching them in the mouth.


And no, they don't want people to be. That's why they put them in that the temple. I think they they wanted people to gawk over them, you know. I mean, my wife was really freaking unsophisticated about cooking over the stuff, but it was a trip watching. You know, I think to myself, this is interesting, too. You know, if I can think of Memphis, you see Mozhdah always have a staff.


Yeah, interesting. Only really the royals. What was there for a why? Because they fucking inbreeding fucking assisted their mothers and their uncles and their fathers and everything, and they all had bad hit from it. That's really why they had to work. And staff, most of them got couldn't use some THC to ease those pains.


Some more stuff too.


So you look up, look up cocaine dummy. They have a dummy. They cut his hair, they check them out.


And so they found that he had cocaine and nicotine in the system and they said there was no cocaine there left.


It was the alien plant implant a long time ago. Cut it out to see what he'd done to you. I mean, it may be cocaine, given the fact that they have an afterlife.


Maybe, you know, whether the cocaine and the nicotine come from 15 years ago in Egypt.


Oh, we got the drug testing doctor here. I don't think they would do any drug testing back in those days. No way to kind of figure out what if they're just experimenting, that's fake.


And God, we got we got to love it. Yeah, we really go deep here.


Well, it's interesting about the pyramids and the Sphinx. And I was listening to these guys talk about how the.


Geologists and the paleontologists disagree on the age of the Sphinx as well.


The geologists say it has to be this rock is at least 30000 years old, really nearly 5000?


Yes, exactly. The paleontologists say no, it's 5000 years old. Geologists go, no, this is 30000 years old. This structure, wow. And because of like the depths and the excavation that they've done, it's just kind of mind blowing. And this guy I've told you about him before, Mike, this guy, fourth Egyptian god of wisdom, who is said to have come to Egypt to build the pyramids from Atlantis used in Atlanta, and priest who traveled to Egypt when Atlantis was taken over by the flood.


And this is in this book, the emerald tablets that he wrote. And the pyramids are above what is called the halls of Amanti, where he where you go to be reincarnated into the world. So it's all I don't know, man. I mean, we don't even know why the pyramids are there. Yeah, there's people buried in them. But I mean, they had pharaohs buried 300 miles outside the city that they would take, you know, and hide them because they didn't want people looting their tombs.


You know, because like you said, Mike, everything was gold. They had these beautiful, ornate statues and things because they they believe that these bare souls needed them to travel into the next life.


It's crazy. They're still finding yeah, maybe. Please continue. No, you go. Sorry, Mike. I was just saying maybe we yes we are who we think we are. Yeah. When we like we like we went we took all that gold and stuff maybe. And then my my goal is following me. I'm going with my goal. Maybe we're not there no longer in the physical world then, you know, they left the physical world behind and with this spiritual.


It's crazy, all these things that we're still finding, all these clues that are on this planet to lead us, you know, to figure out where we came from, who we are. I saw something this week, the earliest footprint ever found.


Somebody found this footprint of a man and determined to come into the man and woman footprint with the shape or size of the foot. Exactly. So, I mean, it's got me like walking around, look it on the floor. Like, I want to find a footprint that's older than that. That's crazy. And I'm no, I'm just talking from reasonable terms. I know the Vikings were here for Christopher Columbus and all those guys, because when you think about it, the Vikings came here with this wooden mallets and all the warrior stuff.


But they only had you know, it was too many Indians at the time. They had their own arrows and stuff. But then they came back a thousand years later, boom, with 500, probably a thousand years later, Columbus, you know, they got guns. So easy to take over. Now, these before you put this more than I could do and about 100000 Indians with bows and arrows. Yeah. You know, so and they they also found the Vikings home.


They had built the home near Nomad style.


Where North America, Greenland, something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, the ancient civilizations, it's mind boggling, you know, to think about we can where we come from can't explain to Native Americans where they came from.


Yeah. You know, there's this word that they came from China when the Chinese came here with their glory shipped back in the day.


Interesting BC before Christ.


Treasure ships, when they had the treasure ships, they traveled the world to find out what was in the world for 30 years, they traveled the world.


The Chinese, yes. And ship took off and didn't try to take over. No, they wanted to see. They just wanted to see it. Isn't that interesting to see what what they had out there, the difference between that and, say, Rome, who was looking to conquer and expand the territory? Isn't that interesting? Like, why? Why is that? Well, the reason is, is because Rome was like that, because Rome was basically living in the lifestyle of Alexander the Great.


They were both of those Spartans. They were so afraid of his reputation. They make a tweet. They never made a word till he died and they came out of nowhere. So his name was so frightening. It was like Garley tomb.


They you hear about from what?


We never made a peep until I learned a great that. They thought he was a god, but when he died, he thought it was up to them to take over the world because he was on such a conquest.


Oh, he was insane here. Oh, he can be. He was just. Yeah. And it was a warrior culture, basically, and they were frightened. Could they have been conquered, I'm sure. And people took over them and they figured everyone could do it except the way we better conquered them before they enslave us. The only way to think, yeah, OK, they think they're ordained by God and God gave them the voting power to conquer the world.


But I thought Alexander the Great.


So then why do you think the Chinese didn't have that philosophy?


Well, I think they didn't have that philosophy because they had different teaching. They have different they had they had the fucking ANZ then they had said the God Indians, come on religion, Hindu, Hindu and all that stuff. Another religion, the Tudorza who did Islam and all that stuff. Yeah. I mean, but there's been a time when.


When the Chinese because, you know, they therefore for their country, the same time that the Punic War was going on, like the 2000 2020 stuff, you know, I mean, so they didn't think it was really wrong with being built in the same particular time.


Oh, interesting.


You guys, Game of Thrones watchers, oh, God, my wife loved this stuff here. I didn't watch much.


I crave them. And they killed all the dead people. Yeah, they wipe them out, man. And I dropped the knife and according couldn't get it a spoiler alert.


So, yeah, they came to one of our fights and we're in Liverpool there until was fighting and she was sitting kind of front row behind me. But yeah, she's a little badass.


Oh. What's her name. The Dragon Mother knows. So are you starting to see a little. Oh yeah. Yeah. From the start. Family many faces I watched like the first four episodes.


I was like, yeah, I don't know, I stick with it. Yeah I know. Maybe I will. I just started Westworld too. I watched The Tudors. Oh yeah. TOOTED you heard it. Oh King Henry.


The eighth one. Interesting guy. Crazy, right. Women but yes. Interesting. He can get them but he normally kills them at the doctor. It's crazy.


His daughter with a great ruler too little bit. The first you the ruler. It's not. Well, anything else, Jeff, I think we've covered it all day. I have a sister. Yeah, younger sister. I have three daughters. Yeah, my oldest just graduated from college. Which college? She went to use a banana slug, UC Santa Cruz. Oh, the shirt that loves the war in the fiction slug's. I love Santa Cruz.


Say, that's a cool city. Santa Cruz. It's a very cannabis friendly there.


No doubt they have that school is probably one of the most liberal schools in America. My daughters call like, yeah, you know, 420 died, like probably 94, 95 percent of the schools out in the redwoods back there.


Like, so it's like, yeah, it's the naked run through campus tomorrow. I'm like, what? How many people are you in that everybody for future kids. Yeah. You know, preparing the world for them. Yeah exactly. That's awesome. And well again, Jeff, awesome to have you here to. Thank you guys very much for having me. Appreciate it.


Yeah. Man, take it home, brother. All right. Hey, everybody, thank you for listening. We love you guys. Remember to subscribe to our YouTube channel Hotbox. And with Mike Tyson, you can find all our episodes there head to hotbox and podcast dot com. For our website, is that correct? Yes, that's correct. Good hotbox and podcast, dot com and that's about it. Well, until next time I'm in Britain. And I'm Mike Tyson.


This is Jeff Novitzky. We're out of here by.


Thank you, Jeff. That was fun.