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You've hit that midday slump, I need a pick me up. Imagine if you worked 30 percent less, you'd be getting ready to come home now. I'm sorry, we can't shorten your working day. A Cadbury dairy milk, 30 percent less sugar, and your favorite music stream should help Cadbury dairy milk, 30 percent less sugar just as irresistable. Hi, Bob. Hello. How's it going? How you been? Okay. You bet. So much is going on since you and I were having our crazy scenes together back in the Parks and Rec days.


I mean, it feels like a hundred years ago, doesn't it?


I've stopped saying, like, in light of everything, I'm OK. Like now it's just become I'm OK in the new normal, which is totally insane.


I know. Now this is real. Listen, this show is nothing if not real.


Welcome to literally with me, Rob Lowe. There's a reason we call literally, and it's because it was one of the things my character on Parks and Rec said literally all the time. My guest today was literally on Parks and Rec with me, and that would be the really funny, really smart. I know. I feel like I say that about a lot of people, but I. But that doesn't mean it isn't true. She's a writer, a creator.


Great actor, really, really funny. A total original Jenny Slate. Or as you Parks and Rec people will know, or John Ralph Yose little sister, Mona Lisa, by the way, may be one of the greatest characters of all time.


Get ready for a fun talk. Well, that's the biggest water look at my big bottle of water I drink. I can't believe it. That is like the biggest what is it? Just water in there.


And this is what's great about a podcast is the listeners will have no idea how sexy this big bottle of water is. But it's it's a it's like a gallon, I think.


And it's look, it says like good morning and then, like, you've got it and then keep going and no excuses and a little bit more. And then at the end it says, well done. That's the one. I drink it, but that's when I'm finishing at night.


What is that what's that weird thing where there's the microphones and people talking to them and it's the sounds are really weird. What is this thing called? What's it called?


Do you know what that's called like. Are you talking about asthma or asthma?


Okay, here's my asthma with my bottle I'm on. Let's see if I have a career in asthma.


And this is and they always have that disgusting like like, you know, like their disgusting tongue to your mouth and their lip smacks disgusting.


I'm going to do it anyway.


I'm Rob Lowe and I love you. I love drinking. Yeah.


Is that what people are into? I don't know. I mean, first of all, there's definitely going to be a more of a niche group that will be into that that you did that. But I, I don't actually know what assembler really is, but what does it mean?


OK, I have one of the if anybody knows anything about audio, it's the it's the great Devin who who eavesdrops and fucks the show up front left.


And so any time he gets a chance. Devon, what is Assef. What does it mean. It means autonomous sensory meridian response. Oh.


So known as a brain massage. Wow. Oh, meridians.


I mean, I know about the like I mean and when I say I know about them, I don't know anything. But, you know, when you get acupuncture, isn't it about your meridians. Yeah. You're like energetic meridians. Anything with.


But how does Zoe Kravitz talking into one of those microphones about beer, doing anything about my meridians. Can you explain that to me?


Have you heard her commercial where she's like, I know that look, it's I don't know what it is like. Look at my skin. My skin jumps off my body.


Yeah. I mean, I have a theory that Zoe Kravitz doing anything is just like really like you like, you know, like a person likes it. Like I it, you know, like I haven't ever seen her do something that I like that doesn't really affect me. You know, like every time she does anything, I'm just like, that's that's really good. I'm done with it.


I just don't like the microphone.


I just don't like the the clicking of the teeth. I can't stand a dry mouth noise in the microphone and oh it really bums me out when it's like there's there's an interview that I'm really interested in and someone has to like that noise where you can hear their mouth sticking to themselves. First of all, because it reminds me of when I'm really anxious and I have like, dry mouth anxiety.




Which is weird because right now my body is reacting by filling my mouth with saliva to protect me from that inevitability. But but also, I like yeah. It's always like a I feel like it's always adults on like NPR and they have like a dry mouth.


That's very NPRM, isn't it. Yeah. Maybe NPR invented this whole thing.


It's always I was taught I saw this interview with Bruce Springsteen where he was talking about, about songs that were recorded in the 70s and everything was so covered in blankets and padded that there's no reverb or nothing is alive.


And this is the the the quiet feels like a velvet.


And as it makes his skin crawl and and I kind of I kind of know what it is, is there's a there's such a quality to sound that like I'm very susceptible to. And which is odd coming from a guy who's deaf in one ear.


Are you deaf in one year. Yeah. Hanslick I only have one ear in. I had no idea.


I get screwed royally out of all that stuff. Like I only need one of them I don't like. They should be so near pods. Yeah. Individually. Yes, yeah. I mean but it, it's been so much to overcome in my life.


Yeah. You seem ok. You seem ok. Yeah. I'm getting through it. The only bummer is, you know I don't get to hear Sgt. Peppers or your Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon. Right. Headphones on and trip. Right. Yeah.


I mean I guess you could still. Trip, but it just wouldn't be those songs wouldn't be worth it. Now I trip by I travel half as well. Right.


Let's face it, I remember the first time I met you. Here's what's I want to have guessed certain guests on the podcast. There are guests that I don't know, not not so many, but every once in a while.


And then guests that I've known for so long, I don't remember when I first met them, but I remember meeting you for the first time. And I think I always think it's significant funding to remember the first time you laid eyes on somebody. And I remember we were I don't think we'd properly been introduced, which happens which happens a lot when you're on a show and you come in and you're like you just breezed into the set.


And there's new actors who are showing up that day and you literally meet them during rehearsal. And we were it was Aziz was running, right, because he was running his clothes shop. It's not your first. Right. And you were so fucking for your character. I mean, both you and John Rufio, I think, are the two characters on Parks and Recreation that and that's saying something that people love more and more than that. I mean, Mona Lisa goes down in history, I think.


Yeah, she's really exceptional. And I mean, I remember that day because I I mean, for me to not have been introduced to you, but have like been such a big fan and to have watched you my entire life. And it's funny that you bring this up right off, because I was just thinking about about this this morning and that like for my whole life, I have always been like, I don't I don't I'm too nervous to meet the famous people that I enjoy.


I have always felt like I don't need you. I just need to watch their work. And and I remember on that day being like, this is totally crazy and thinking like, I don't know, being on SNL should have prepared me for being around people that, you know, you see on TV or in movies or in the zeitgeist or whatever. And like, it should prepare you, but it doesn't. And I remember being so shy that day and feeling responsible for myself as if you were going to think that I was my character and wanting to say, like, I'm not bad, I'm not like I'm not like Mona Lisa or whatever, as if you don't go to work at your job every day, which I'm just visiting, by the way.


And I remember being really, really shy and feeling the things that I did. A lot of people feel when they like when they when they meet someone that they've just like loved watching, which is just like don't bother them, don't like asking questions. And then I had to like double back and be like, Jennifer, just don't work. You deserve to be here, you know. And it was like this whole internal dialogue. And meanwhile, I'm like saying hard pass to Jerry and like just feeling so mean.


Oh, you're so hard. I have been the first time I'd heard the phrase hard pass. I had never heard for it. Yeah. I remember getting that script and being like, whoa, what a burn, what an intense, very intense, intense burn.




Now you I remember I remember you were you were so like just crush, just a crush her just coming in and crushing. But with that group you'd have to be I mean because that group would eat you alive. When you look back at the Parks and rec people from the writing staff to to the actors on it, I mean, good Lord, it's the nineteen twenty seven New York Yankees. It's Murderer's Row. Right.


It really I mean, without truly understanding the sports reference, I can say that they were a very good baseball team.


The nineteen seventy, the nineteen twenty seven Yankees were notoriously the best team ever made they say.


Yeah I mean you could say like that, you know, Michael Jordan and the bulls in the nine bulls and that more.


OK, well then let me ask you this. Yeah. Who's who's then who is Dennis Rodman in Parks and Rec. Oh, that's the analogy.


No, I don't know that there's a Rodman. Yeah, right. I mean, Rodman is a really he's a he really shines bright in his own way, but he's also really problematic. And that was the thing about Parks and Rec, at least for me, was that I was like, this place is a utopia. Like everyone's so nice to each other. And yeah, it just works. And the comedy is like so it's like so a plus.


And I think that's what you like, like there's there's not a lot of similarity between me and an athlete, but I think that professional comedians are really competitive. And when you know, like really competitive, you know, like this is the best show. This is a show with the best jokes. And they're not like cheesy or dorky or schlocky like this is cutting. Comedy that's going to inform the way comedy kind of is going to look for many years, like kind of like when will when Will Ferrell went on to SNL, he he just, like, changed everything for quite a while, like everyone wanted to be like him.


A whole school, like a whole like imitation of comedy, brother. I'm just trying to be like HANTMAN. I think Parks and Rec was the first of its of its kind in that it was like so sweet. But the comedy was like punch you in your face. Funny. Yeah, that's the thing.


It was always really good natured. Yeah. Just unbelievably.


And that's the energy that's make sure and it's, it's, it all sort of springs from his just genial ability and his, his aversion to to, to mean humor.


But I can't I got to say, I can't get over the the analogy of the Parks and Rec people as the Michael Jordan bulls, because it's making me feel very much like I'm the Bill Cartwright of the Michael Jordan Bulls.


Who's Bill currently.


Thank you.


That's what I'm saying. That's thank you. You. Thank you. Yes.


I see you went right to it.


I mean, we all know that Amy Poehler, Michael Jordan. We know it. Yeah, she is. Yeah. She's a blonde. Michael Jordan. And I'm just the guy in the corner with the big elbows throwing a ball around.


That's me, Bill Cartwright, who, you know, who also doesn't apply.


It doesn't apply. It was just these people are good at sports reference. But I know I forget the name of the small man that everyone was so mad at. Who? You know what I mean? Jerry, was that his name? Not on Parks and Rec. Yes. The guy who was responsible for on the Bulls. Yeah. Oh yeah. Jerry Reinsdorf. Yeah. He's actually Jerry. He's actually they're both Jerry's. Yeah.


And it actually like hurts my heart. Those moments where they show how much everybody hates that little man named Jerry and that he's like.


He just he sort of he like come he comes to me in my mind, like he's a Gollum of what he has done, like he has been reduced and reformed by his, like, greedy machinations behind the scenes is behind the scenes machinations.


Yeah, he's a bad little man, but that's just my judgment.


He's the jury. Well, they certainly made him look like that in the documentary. I mean, good Lord, he clearly didn't have final cut.




My favorite thing about the documentary is just Michael Jordan with a big, gnarly, long cigar's in his in his.


I was going to say I was gonna say wardrobe in his wardrobe, in his uniform, in the locker room is the best.




It's first of all, his outfits, like when he goes to France, he goes to Paris like his like gigantic suits that are in like sort of muted jewel tones. He always has a mock turtleneck. The whole thing is really good. And then in the interviews themselves, what I'm fascinated by is how, like, he has a he has like a 17 ounce tumbler filled with like some sort of very expensive scotch or something. And it looks like maple syrup and it just gets drained down through the interviews.


And he's just like reclining and and truly is a person who has been better at something than most people have ever been at anything ever. And he's just like telling us about it now and influence people, you know, for generations to come.


It's kind of like polar polar. Got that. I can see polar reclining with the tumbler just influencing people while she reclines with a tumbler. Yeah, I like that.


I think it's good. I think it's really, really good. Ben Schwartz. Yeah. Did you know, did you know Ben before you guys met. I did.


I mean I knew him before because we were both on the TV show House of Lies Together, which is like really one of my weirdest performances I would say is like I was like so surprised that I don't know if you've ever felt this way, but like, I remember getting it was a time of my career. But it's like, just get me an audition.


I need to have a job, you know, like I'll have a job. And I remember, like, please let me have a job. And the description of the character, I was like, well, I'm never going to get this part, you know? And then I did get the part. But I really remember thinking I should I I don't know why they gave me this part, which is not how I felt about Mona Lisa.


But but I met Ben on that show and we played he played like, you know, they were like power brokers or so they were like business people is so sad that I can't even describe the show that I was on or what it was about. But it was like about business.


And I played the way, which makes it either the best show ever or the worst show ever.


I find like if you if you can't explain a show, it's likely really, really great or just awful. Right?


That's true. And I think it was very good and Ben was really good on it. But he he played like a funny guy, like a kind of snarky guy, but not John Routhier. But anyway, between scenes like we had never met before and we did. And it's a weird thing to say, but we had like an immediate synergy and and would make each other laugh so hard. And and he is such a fun person to be on set with.


Like and the other thing is that he's really funny. But what makes it special is that he encourages you to be funny also. And we would just like goof off. And so then when we got to be Mona Lisa and John and Alfio together, it was like a nuclear combo.


Well, that's what that's why I brought it up, because I didn't know you and I'd probably done maybe one or two scenes of John Ralph, but I'd seen him on the show.


Yeah, maybe I hadn't done a scene with him and I just knew his character from the show. But you two together felt like like you had were actual brother and sister like that.


You are a comedy duo. I thought maybe you guys were an actual comedy team.


It would be so on the show. Yeah. I mean he's got Middleditch now. He doesn't need me.


Those days happened to remember there was like comedy teams. Nobody does that anymore, do they?


Well, weirdly, Ben is in a comedy team with Thomas Middleditch, but they do. But he's also great. He is also wonderful. I started my comedy career in a duo.


Really? Yeah. With my best friend from college, Gabe Ledman. And yeah, we were in a duo together. And mostly it was because like we were twenty two, we weren't like UCB people, we were just like kind of random people in New York. And I think we really leaned on each other like I was, you know, I was like a twenty two year old woman. He was my, my best friend who was a twenty year old gay guy.


And that's what our act was about, kind of. But our act was kind of about me pretending that. It was like the fictional, but it was like our shtick was that I was in love with him and told everyone he was my boyfriend and he was like, absolutely not. No, like the whole thing, which now I think about. And then we graduated. And that was kind of a crutch in a way. And then we grew out of it.


But we were a comedy duo for like strictly comedy duo for maybe four or five years until we've just both kind of felt confident. And then we we did. Start our own standup careers by ourselves, but. Comedy deals are like old fashioned and fun. Yeah, it feels very vaudevillian.


Yeah, it felt like that to me actually, which is a good feeling to have when you're like kind of at the very, very start of what might be living the dream. Like if you if you grew up like me and you're like really, really want to be a comedian or a comedy actor, it feels good to see yourself like or at least be able to fashion yourself in your own mind in the position that you imagine other people have been in before.


Like you're like, I think I'm getting close to the area, you know, like I'm doing the movement they're supposed to do. And, yeah, it felt really exciting. And there is no room for I don't think there's there's not like a lot of room for the large amount of shyness that I have and had started my career. So it was really good to have Gayed.


That's what people don't understand about what we do. And I'm not a professional comedian like you are, really. But people, they people who go, I could never do what you do because I'm too shy.


I'm like, bro, yeah. Most of us are really shy. Yeah. Yeah, we are right.


I mean, it seems like well, how could anybody who who can play Mona Lisa be shy right now.


So it seems like. But I get it right. Yeah.


I think, I mean it's it's that and I wonder if this says that shyness is always seen as an impediment or that it shows up one way in a certain set of behaviors. But I've just always had it. And some of it is like it's like a blend of self-doubt or social anxiety. But there's something nice about shyness, like it's actually very gentle and it's there because it doesn't like assume that you should have a place that's like the feeling is like, oh, I just I don't want to, like, be too much in here if I'm not supposed to be.


And and I think also that's why I can be confused with not being confident. But I've always felt both shy and confident at once. I've never been able to really describe why. But you know that I think the reason why I can play a character like Mona Lisa is because I'm really not like her at all. And so I just like feel so it just doesn't feel I would be more threatened playing. I would be very threatened playing a character who seemed like me.


Hold that thought. We'll be right back. You've hit that midday slump, I need a pick me up. Imagine if you worked 30 percent less, you'd be getting ready to come home now. I'm sorry we can't shorten your working day. I carbury dairy milk, 30 percent less sugar. And your favorite music stream should help Cadbury dairy milk, 30 percent less sugar just as irresistable. You were a huge Gilda fan, correct? Yeah, it wasn't, by the way.


Yeah. I mean, my man, my first manager, who I was with to the day he died was Gildas manager.


Oh, really? And Bernie Brillstein.


And he wrote two books and beguiled us through both of them. And I'm I'm assuming you've read Bunny Bunny by Alan Zweibel about Gilda. Yeah, I haven't.


It's the if anybody out there's a Gilda fan, the book Bunny Bunny, which I guess is a thing that Gilda on the 1st of April every year would have to say to the first person she met, Bunny Bunny for whatever reason, that wasn't if you didn't, you were going have a bad year.


So Bunny. Bunny, very cute. Yeah, she was.


I mean, I grew up watching that too. But you do I think you you're you're in that lineage.


I feel like that. I think she would be very happy with you in carrying that that sort of torch for her.


Was it was your whole family into watching SNL together and that in that era, we you know, we weren't allowed to really watch very much TV growing up.


And the only way were those houses. Yeah. Oh, yes.


Majorly one of those houses and a real like there's no soda in this house, like, you know, like it was. Oh yes. And my mom was like very frightened about cholesterol.


And we were eating like really bad granola bars with like carob chips in them, like not even chocolate chips. It was not it was not happening. And I know that house been to that house.


That's what that is. We had the TV with the knobs, like we didn't have cable and all that stuff. But so my dad likes comedy. My older sister did. My mom, who's a lovely person like truly does not seem to have a need for comedy in any way and not even really music either. It's like kind of odd. But my dad, when I was like really little, said to me that I was like this woman on TV and he managed to get some tapes of SNL with Gilda on them and showed them to me.


And he was like, you're like this, you're like this.


And wow. And I now when I think about that, I'm like, what a unbelievable stroke of luck that he did that. Because it wasn't just that I stumbled on it. It was that like, you know, my parents who I loved and trusted was like, there's a like I know you think you're getting in trouble a lot and you can't listen and you can't sit still or whatever. But it's not a comment on your character.


And actually, there's like a Grown-Up who's like you, who has your energy, a successful, a successful, legendary beloved, grown up.


Yeah. And then I was like obsessed and I was obsessed with SNL and like, any way I could get to watch it, like, I just I just was obsessed with it for my entire life. And I'd never I know everybody thinks it's but like there wasn't anyone like Gilda Radner because she was there was so much kindness and vulnerability in her performances and just like so much crazy, crazy energy. And she just wasn't scared. Or if she was, it was irrelevant or incorporated.


I guess she was she was amazing.


And then. And then. So then fast forward and take me to your first Saturday Night Live audition. I'm obsessed with people Saturday Night Live auditions. I could do a podcast just on those.


Yeah. I mean, and probably you should, because I bet there is not one boring story, although maybe mine will be boring right now. But they did jinx myself, but I just. I don't I don't even know how in how to describe facing something that is your biggest wish that like and that it's real, like you can be like, oh I, you know, I. I don't know, like make wishes for the world, like I wish we could all live in peace or whatever, but to have a specific career goal that is like so tied to your dream version of your own identity is like crazy, stimulating, you know.


And and I had put on a one woman show at UCB, which was not I wasn't like a UCB person. I was a stand up randomly. But they allowed me to do my show there. And I performed it like twice. And somebody I, I kind of think it was John Mulaney, but I'm not sure told the casting person from SNL. And she came and saw the second show that I ever did of my one woman show.


And the next week I had an audition at SNL and well, like, you know, if you go to the Groundlings or you go through UCB or a second city or whatever, like, a lot of that is kind of conditioning you to develop these characters and you're hoping you're going to like land on, know, SNL or maybe at the time like mad TV or something like something like that. Yeah, but I had none of that. I just had no training in that at all.


And I had done improv in college, but that was like really it. And so I had a week to put together I think five characters and I just genuinely had nothing and I could not in my mind make sense of the enormity of this huge chance and the fact that somehow after an entire life of specifically wanting this, I was unprepared of. But I call it off. And the other thing is that at the time my therapist was at the stop one right after Rockefeller Center, and I used to like go to therapy and when we would pass through Rockefeller Center on the like is like the B or D train, I think I forget I would always be like at the time I was very into the secret.


I don't know if you remember that positivity tone. Yeah. Yeah, very into it. Yeah. I was like, one day I'll get off here and I'll go to work here. And it was like, I don't know why not. Why not hope. But so I remember being like, holy fuck, I'm going to get off there. I'm not I mean, I'm not going to take a taxi from Brooklyn and like, I'm going to do this.


And I got the characters together. Like, I didn't ask anyone's opinion. I just got them together. And I remember doing an impression of Lady Gaga in, like a robot voice. And it was like, I mean, this is when Lady Gaga was new, like and it was just like, what a weirdo, you know, like who we love. Yeah, but and I also had a character named Pamela Daghestan, who was a dog who does like schlocky stand up and her catchphrases throw me a bone.


And it was like it was like it was terrible on purpose. And I had a dog shoot with like a you know, you could see my face, but I were like a dog head with, like ears and stuff. And and it's amazing. It was like a girlfriend of mine called me up the other day. She said, oh, my God, I've just been to the vet. I said, a, spare me the details, OK, throw me a bone.


That's what it was. But that's like what I came with came in with groaners, but on purpose. I can't remember, like. Oh, and I did an impression of Annette Bening, which is. Oh, wait, this sounds amazing.


I can't even believe it. You know. What else is that? I'm terrible at impressions in every single way, except for that I wanted this job. I'm so ill suited for it. But like I did an impression of Annette Bening giving a tour at the National Holocaust Museum. Oh, delicious.


Truly something that did not end up on television for many, many reasons.


And also, you know, they were like my managers at the time. They were like and I didn't have an agent. They were like, yeah, they don't laugh at you. So don't go in there expecting to get any response because it's like it's like a tough love environment and they're not going to laugh. And you're not going you're going to go, oh, they're they're going to make you wait for hours. It's like this whole thing. And I just remember going and being like, well, OK.


I mean, I guess I can't, like, fight the system. I don't know what it is currently at the time. I mean, at the time I was like a stoner from Brooklyn and I was like, this is random. Like this is the most random thing. I feel like I, I made a wish and it came through and it was like so it was so huge that I felt like if I thought about it at all, I would pass out.


I would like short out and I got to 30 Rock. And I was just like telling myself to remember, to breathe in and out, and I remember at one point saying to myself, everybody here poops in a toilet. Everybody here has like Pupi. And it comes out of their body and they've had their feelings hurt and they're like hungry for their meals. And you're just not different. And it doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that you, like, go and at least do this one thing and you know something.


And then somebody told you Lorne Michaels does not poop or pee. That's right.


And he has a golden toilet, but it's just a sculpture, you know, and it's it's nothing has ever come out. But yeah. So then anyway, I don't know.


So then all I remember is, you know, the thing about my body is that I have no bodily functions.


That's really no need for toilet.


No, no need. I think I think, Jenny, as you get older, you find that it's best to have a toilet. That's a sculpture.


So you're there. You're you never you never ran any of the characters by anybody, you know, like, look, I have this weird thing. It's Annette Bening.


I don't know if it's Annette Bening, but it's a because that would be the first one I would run by somebody, but also the one that I'm most like I'm down to see.


I mean, I think I must've done them for my boyfriend at the time. You know, there's no way I didn't like, practice them for anyone. And I told them to my manager. But, like, I don't know, I just remember this major sense of, like, being alone, like, I've just being really, really alone and. Yeah. And just kind of being like, well, your main feelings about what this is just like don't apply.


It just doesn't matter. Obviously you're super scared. Obviously you're super excited like it. It did feel like I was like in a weird tunnel of fear and excitement. I was like, just go. And some years they I think they do the auditions like at a comedy club or whatever. But the year that I auditioned, they did them on the stage at SNL. Oh God.


Yeah, exactly. I mean, I can't. I can't. But in a way it's good because it's like I don't know, like sometimes in order to imagine yourself at the place where, like, your wildest dreams kind of converge, you might have to imagine yourself being a different person. Like you're like, well, I couldn't it's not going to be me, though, you know, when I do this. But it was just like the realness of all of it being like I am on Earth.


I am in a skyscraper in New York City. I am I'm just like I'm just like standing in my shoes on a stage was weirdly calming and really kind of cheesy, but real feeling. That's like, well. I made it this far, and no one can ever tell me I didn't like stand on the stage here, but then I did all the impressions and I had a plastic bag, you know, like a like a like a plastic.


When I think about it now, I'm like, what? But I brought my stuff and I did my stuff, my beautiful little things, my my impressions and my characters. And and they did laugh. And then I remember being like, oh God, they're laughing. I think that's good, you know, like I think that's good and and then the that the experience, I thought would be terrifying. I know it was like very, very positive is really positive.


Yeah. Wow. Yeah.


I didn't expect the story to end like that. I thought it would be. And the silence was deafening.


And I got back on the train and I went to the next stop, which is my therapist I wept for and I'm still in the office.


And she has not solved it yet. Yeah, no. And it was like, wow, this is good. And then I heard some feedback that was like that was really good. They thought it was good. And I was like. This is the seems it seems like some other moments I've had in my life when I'm like, could it be? But all of those moments have been about love like they've all been. And this is also when, like a major, I realized like a major tie in between comedy and my love for performance and how I see, like, romantic things, that they just feel like huge gifts, that you were just like, whoa, you're telling me that this thing that I love in myself, that's essential to me, that you like it and you like find it to be useful and attractive like that makes me think that magic is real or just that, like the world is fundamentally good or I have no idea.


But then I had to wait all summer to hear if I would be on the show. And then they made me audition again. And at that point I really had nothing. And so I remember going in there and the only character I remember was like she was like a fortune. I she was a fortune teller. Who was some sort of GPS?


I'm really unsure, really unsure, and then I walked in that day and I saw Seth Meyers while I was walking in, and it's like if you've been seeing Seth Meyers on TV for like 10 years or whatever and you see him in person, it's just like it's it's very, very hard to be normal. And he was like and I had, of course, my stupid plastic bag of, like, wigs. And he was like, I can't wait to see Kennedy to see what's in there.


And I was like. Banal, like, really dorky and stupid, and and I remember the person who auditioned before we had, like, you're only supposed to do five characters, so that's what I did. And he had like 10, 45 second characters. And I remember being like, who won? Like the kids, you know, and being like, this is so fucked, man. And then doing it. And they laughed again. And I was like, OK, they laughed again.


Like, what will this be? What the hell is going to happen to me? And then and then they're all like, really accelerated really, really quickly.


And it was a real hold on to your butts situation. Oh yeah.


I feel like I just lived it like. I'm so envious. I mean, I had. For me, it was auditioning for The Outsiders, Francis Ford Coppola. Yeah, and like and it was so I'm relating.


So I'm like I'm just so there with you with that story, because it was it was the same as like this will change my life.


Yeah. Yeah. This is all I've wanted to do this since I was eight years old. I'm here. This is and I don't know where it's going to lead and it's totally competitive. And I'm frightened to death and I'm so excited. And you know what? What? It's Matt. It is like you said, it's magic.


It really, really, really is magic. But the other thing I love about what you said is that like the the things in us that are different and weird and like like that, like when you realize that there's maybe value in that, it is such a great it's such a great moment.


And then, of course, the minute you you realize that you forget it again, then you got to pay a shrink again. No, no, no, that. Yeah.


And the other thing is like you can get that validation that it's like, OK, they saw it like Lawrence saw it and they saw it and you were there. And whether or not you you're like, you know, stay on that show for ten years or you're like me and you just have one. It will always be, at least for me, that the question is like a refrain like this. Do they see it? Do they see it?


Do the people see it? And that like now that I'm more into my career and more into my adulthood, I have, like, really learn to try to not depend on an answer to that question other than from myself. Like it's here who you are is here. It's here. But at that time, it you know, I think I was I think I was twenty seven when I got cast on SNL. I might have been twenty six, I forget, but I just I just needed validation from everywhere, you know, from all sides.


And if you've never been on TV before, really like it's not weird to want that. And it's certainly not weird to feel like a giant, like to feel like a bird that flew into a house a little bit. Yeah. Yeah.


You're on your path and you're a much more.


And we'll be right back after this. Who have been your you're not going to answer this, honestly, you can't, because I was here. I was going to ask you and I'm not going to ask you because you can't. And you know what?


I might answer it honestly. You don't know. I'm I have I have, like, a weird compulsion to do it, but not that I should temper that. So please go ahead.


OK, well, then, so who who's your favorite, like comedy cohort? Was it Seth Meyers.


Was it me? He said leading Lee on star creation. Is it you know, is it Ben. Like who? Who are the people that you're like, oh yeah.


We, we, we can make funny stuff together.


Um, there are a lot of good ones.


I do think that Ben Schwartz is like the easiest fit like, like that. But I also think that about Nick Kroll. Oh yeah. You know, like the work that we did together on his show on Kroll Show is like, yeah, it's like the comedy I'm proud of because it is really, truly original. And and so I guess a lot of times for that type of work, like scene work where you're in character like, yeah, I think Caroll and I really had like a great understanding of how to be in a duo as little as, like our characters on his show or the different ones, but.


But I don't know, and then there are other people that they're just so strong that it will always be easy to work with them. And like Will Forte is one of those people, I think, you know, those people would be in the 1927 Yankees, the baseball team that's very famous.


And it was a very, very good baseball team. Right.


New York, New York, the Big Apple, the Big Apple. And they would be batting first, second, third and fourth right on the Big Apple.


When I hosted the show, you know, when I hosted the show. How did you find Jeff? Not many people.


I did three times. And and it was the same for me. It was it was like. It was like one of the highlights and remains of my life, just because of how much the show meant to me and being 12 and 13 and learning everything I knew about comedy, watching it and like and all that stuff, and then there I am. And they're like, oh, no, you're Don Patos screaming my name.


And the band is playing and you just can't believe your life. You believe it.


Yeah, but the will and I and I and Lauren and I were friendly and I still are. And but I was with him when he went and scouted Will at Groundlings.


Well, and I, I remember being like, that guy's funny. And then then fast forward to a few years later and I'm doing the show and Will Will and I this reminds me of your Auschwitz, which I'm obsessed with.


I'm goading you into doing it. So far you haven't taken the bait.


I can't believe there's still want to be an impression that I understand. I get that when you have an impression for a minute and then it's gone. I just can't do it. Yeah. I can't get can't get it back. Yeah.


But my, my version of it was Will and I had this thing where we played on college costs again. Auschwitz not funny. No oncology. Not funny. No, but we thought we would be a psychologist. Really good ones.


But we had really bad bad bedside manners and we would we would we would be giving people the news that they had terminal cancer while eating with our mouths full here.


That was that was the whole predicate of the sketch when we were poor. Truly absurd. For real food for all. Yeah. Spicy Strutt for the master.


Then not surprisingly, for a lot of reasons that never made it. It didn't matter. Yeah.


But I mean that is the stuff that is like now. Well and s I think now it's kind of at least for me it's like it's so much harder to do comedy about stuff that feels like a little dark or irreverent just because because maybe the line has been completely obliterated between satire and in real life. Yeah. In our current world. I felt that way for a while, like I felt that way for I would say I don't know, like I felt very acutely for like the last four years, which is just like I don't know, like there would be times when when Dave and I were in a duo, for example, we would use language that was like slurs against us as Jewish people or slurs against gay people like or slurs against women as a way to take that back, which is like a pretty you know, it's like a thing that people do is they use hurtful language and they they turn it into something else.


They take back the power. But, you know, over the last few years, I've thought, like, oh, man, I don't I just don't want to hear it at all. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to see it. I just want to see new stuff that's funny. And I sort of have an allergy to cynicism anyway. But but I like I really miss it in a way.


Like, I really miss those times when at least to me, the world didn't feel so tempted to tip into darkness that you had to be like extra, extra careful, which is also actually the reason why I don't know if you saw the movie Jojo Rabbit. Yeah.


Which came out last year, but I was like, so impressed with it because I was like, you know, it's a scary world. Like, we don't want to show footage of Nazis. We don't want to see swastikas and we don't want to have any characters that are Nazis that are like human or sympathetic in any ways, because at this point, we just don't it seems like culture doesn't trust part of culture or whatever to not just be neo-Nazis because they see because like they'll feel encouraged by it.


And I was like watching that movie and I was like this movie, Trust US, with really scary imagery. And it trust us with complexity. And it brought it like it was like so rejuvenating to me. I was like, this is what comedy used to be, you know, like I wonder, like when did you and we'll think of that idea, like how many years ago was it. Oh God.


It was, it was in the it was in the early I'm going to say it was. Two, like twenty two. Yeah, I mean, that's such a different time. I just really want something different. I really want to be able to try to make people happy. This has been great.


You've been so much fun. I'm glad I'm glad we did this. This might actually have been the first time we've ever said more than five things to each other because it's like we show up in a van, we say hi, and then we're under pressure to get out of Tom Haverford, you know, clothing sales set. And we got to like like actually have a conversation. It was awesome.


Well, I'm so good. I really loved it. And I remember you as a as a very kind person and a wonderful conversationalist. And I remember there was a day that we were waiting for something and they had like a trailer for the cast to hang out in. And it was like, yeah, yeah. And Aziz and you were hanging out and we were like, you were watching local news or something. And just like spent 30 minutes talking about somebody's sweater.


But I again, to tie it kind of back to our initial conversation, I remember being like, wow, well, this is so nice. Like, you know, does it have to be this nice? But he is. And and it was like a very, like, positive experience for me. A very nice day. And then then when you just seeing your face now, it's like, oh, I remember. Rob is so nice.


Right. He's like a chatty he's like a fun chatter. It's good to chat. No, thank you. I like that.


That was people don't really realize that around on Parks and Rec we all shared trailers together when we'd be on location. And it's really unusual. You don't most shows don't do that.


The actors are in their own little nooks and crannies and whatever and parks we would have the the the Moho meet you at the Moho and we would all be in the Moho and like somebody was in the bathroom yet to knock on the door, get out of the bathroom and certainly be eating disgusting food and stinking up the place like it was like you wouldn't expect the 1927 Yankees, the baseball team, the night to be seven baseball Yankee to the baseball Yankees.


Not the soccer Yankees. Not the football Yankees. Right.


The and not the Brooklyn Dodgers. I get it. You're from Brooklyn. That's why you don't like the Yankees. I get it. I get it.


Enough already. Move on. Throw me a bone. Dog bone. Throw me a boat with a dog head the best. I want that character to breathe new life.


I want my character to live again. Me too.


And you know what? The last thing I'll say is that there was one one show where John Mulaney and I wrote an update like an update piece for Pamela Dodson, and it made it to dress. And she was like giving Steph some report or whatever. And we were rehearsing it. And she was she was kind of in the oh, she did do a lot of like what's the deal? What's the deal with this or that? And it was kind of Seinfeld.


Feldon, but not really. But but that kind of it sort of seemed like that. And I was doing it and really having, I thought a good time. And then, like, you know, at SNL, people just walk, they just walk, and sometimes they just walk right in. Like one time I saw Leonardo DiCaprio standing underneath the bleachers and I was like, yeah, like I had no idea. I actually thought I was going to die.


I was so excited. But anyway, I was doing my bit and Jerry Seinfeld walked in and I was like, oh, no. Oh, no, no, no, no. Like, I am not making fun of Jerry Seinfeld. I don't want to do this. But it's like you have to rehearse your thing right now. And I just remember being like like phoning it in so hard and just being so embarrassed that I'm in a dog suit being like, what's the deal?


And then seeing Jerry Seinfeld and and it did not make it to air.


It did not make it. And I was just like, this is in my in my nightmare. It's that Jerry, you know, goes to Lauren and is like that really hurt my feelings.


But I don't think a law that dog soothsaying. Not cool, not cool. That Jewish girl in the dog suit, that was rude. OK, that was good. I'm getting the call from my agent. She's like, Jen, you're not coming back. I'm like, oh, no, no, that's fine. I it's lives on in my dreams though.


It's so good. That is the deal. Oh man.


Well thank thank you so much. This was great. Thanks for taking your time out to to talk to me. I you make me laugh. You're funny as hell and smart and great and so many good things. Thanks for, for being on it with us. Hey.


Thanks for having me and all of those nice compliments right back at you. And I hope that you stay well and say something. Thank you. See you soon.


OK, thank you. Jenny Slate. You lived up to my wildest expectations and they were wild. That wild and that was really fun. I love that, and she is just such a funny chill. She's the best and I hope you liked it as much as I did.


I always love walking down memory lane of my years on Parks and Rec.


It's always fun. Anyway, tune in next week. We have somebody very special coming your way. And by the way, don't forget to subscribe, hit the subscribe button on this endeavor of mine if you haven't.


So every Thursday when you wake up, you automatically have. Hijinx for me. All right, thank you. See you soon. You have been listening to literally with Rob Lowe, produced and engineered by me, Devon Tory Bryant, executive produced by Rob Lowe for low profile Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco and Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Stitcher. The supervising producer is Aaron Blair's talent producer, Jennifer Sampas. Please write and review the show on Apple podcast and remember to subscribe on Apple podcast, Stitcher or wherever you get your pockets.


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