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Hi, Rob. Oh, hey. We're trying to get my camera on technical difficulties here. This is why the man has Michael Bay do these things. Okay, this is this is not this is below your pay grade, Gerri. One hundred percent. Yeah, you're right.


My guest today. How can I put this? It's like seeing a Sasquatch in the wild. This man does not do interviews. Does it have to? He could buy and sell us all, he is a man of few words, he's the Michael Corleone School of power. He is truly on the Mount Rushmore of. Producers, he's Jerry Bruckheimer at one point three of his TV series were in the top 10, it's been nominated for 77 Emmys, won 17 of them, 40 won Oscars, won six of them, eight Grammys won five of them, 23 Golden Globes won four of them.


His movies include Flashdance, Beverly Hills Cop, Top Gun, Armageddon, Bad Boys, remember the Titans, Black Hawk Down, the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise. I could go on and on. This is a font of entertainment knowledge and I am so excited to be able to pick his brain because like I said, he doesn't talk to many people, but he talks to us.


Thank you for doing this, man, I know I can't even remember the last time I ever you don't do many interviews. I don't think I don't think you're really the only time.


I do miss when we have a movie about to come out right away pretty far. But we have a film. I got to promote it.


Right. Right. Gotcha. Did you know the actor Bill Paxton? Sure. Of course he was. He used to give me the best career advice, Jerry. I was doing a TV series, and the series was predicated on me being a running for president and sort of the American president type of vibe was my character. And it was with Sally Field and Calista Flockhart and was called Brothers and Sisters. And then the network one day decided they didn't want to do any more political stories.


So I ended up having to do all these like househusbands stories where I was like baking pies with Sally as opposed to running around with the Secret Service and motorcades. And I was complaining to Bill Paxton about it for just God, buddy, that's a one way ticket to Palookaville for you, man.


You got him. You got him. Perfect is America doesn't want to see Rob Lowe and oven mitts.


Funny. So, so damn good.


Well, Jerry, I mean, I don't even know where to begin with you because I'm such a fan of yours and what you've done both in movies and in TV. And I mean, I think I want to start with with the 80s, because that's when I first was aware of you. I remember reading the script for Top Gun. People always ask me, was there ever a movie that you wanted to do and you didn't get? And there's always that, you know, as an actor, you're up for things and the directors and like, whatever, there's always that list you're on.


But I remember reading Top Gun sitting in Barry Hersch's waiting room. Right, and reading that script and going, this movie is going to be the biggest movie ever.


And of course, I think Tom was always going to be that guy and that pretty much right.


Troy was the only guy we really went out to. But I remember going this movie is this movie is going to be just absolutely magnificent.


What was your. Did you really come up with the idea seeing a picture in a magazine cover? Yeah, it was New W magazine, I think it was called, which is now become L.A. magazine. And it was a story about the school in Miramar, California. And I saw this photograph of this jet. Pilot and another pilot, I think, upside down from another plane against and I said, wow, this is Star Wars for real. And I read the article and I went to Dodd's office right through the magazine on his desk, and he said, shit, we got to get this.


And we called our development young lady at the time and he said, get this article, get get the rights. So through a bunch of saturations, we got a hold of the magazine and the author and and brought the brought the rights to it. And was the actual first article about the Top Gun school exactly was all about the school and I didn't know they had names, all the pilots that names, you know, Maverick and all the different names.


So we had Eisemann, but we used we've made up our own course. And Cash and EPS were two writers that at the time Paramount loved. We sent them the article and they flipped over it and they wrote the draft that. I guess we turned it into the studio. What was interesting is a TV show at the time was about the year was on about at the Air Force and unfortunately, nobody. Tuned it in, so the Paramount management said, well, people don't want to see Aviator's, forget it, we're not going to make it.


And unfortunately for them, or maybe fortunately for them, they change managements in a new manner. And a new head of the studio, a man named Ned Tanen. Oh, my gosh. You remember him? Of course.


So Net called Donna myself. And he said, What do you guys got? Coverage. Bear, tell me what movies you're developing. We said we had this movie Top Gun we're real excited about. And we have a director, Tony Scott, and love to get it made. And he said, well, come over to my house, get Tony up here. So Tony flies in from London, jet lagged like crazy. We're in that tannin's house.


Donna, myself and dad has a dog also. And Tony is just petting the dog and then turns to Tony will tell me the story. And Tony just totally froze.


Couldn't say a word. So Don, the ultimate salesman, just great storyteller, brilliant guy, tells the story that we developed. And then it looks to me since Jerry, what's this going to cost? I think around 40 million.


And then he turned to us and said, go make it. But are you sure this guy can direct it? The only thing he knows how to do is bet the dog. And we say no, we have a lot of faith in him.


He's he's an amazing visual artist, good storyteller. Only done the hunger at that point. Plus, this is Tony Scott is, of course, Ridley's younger younger brother. That's right. Was he wearing his fishing jacket in the meeting, the fishing vest?


I don't think he had that fishing vessel at that time. Was he wearing the pink hat yet? He might have had to take that on.


He might have to think. Was he smoking the Montecristo number two? Of course. Yeah. So when that movie.


Well, first and then Don Simpson, your original partner, I mean, Simpson Bruckheimer movies were so before anybody branded anybody, those were those movies all all your movies had, you know, whether it's, you know, Beverly Hills Cop. Crimson Tide or all those movies were Flashdance, had they felt like I only you guys could have made them. I felt like I remember seeing Flashdance. I remember I remember being in two movie theaters and seeing the audience go absolutely ballistic at the ending was Rocky.


And the other was Flashdance and the Angels went crazy. Do you remember what would you remember what it was like the first time you saw that cut of Flashdance that worked so well?


Well, it was we reshot the ending of the movie. We didn't reshoot it. We added elements to the ending to make it more satisfying for the audience. And that's when it exploded. Once we added some more of her dancing, we really made a real moment out of it. And that was partially because management at the time was Eisner. And I think it was Katzenberg who were there. And they said, look, we got to make this any more even more satisfying.


So they encouraged us to go back and pick up some more footage on her dance, the last dance recital.


Now, just just because it's been a long time in the movie occupies such a big place in the zeitgeist. I want to make sure I get the logline right. She's a female welder.


That just really wants to dance, she'd rather stop welding and start dancing.


That's sort of the movie is not depressing your dream. To be, I guess, a dancer, and she fortunately for for her and her career, she found this venue where she could dance.


I remember in that moment in time in the 80s, every movie had to take place in like an Appalachian steel town.


Well, we made a real strong working, working lady. Real tough. We like that. Like tough women, tough, smart women know for sure.


And that was an earlier with Jennifer Beals. I remember fresh out of Yale, correct? Right.


It's interesting because we we had this country wide search for the girl to play the part and we had, I think, two or three candidates. And then casting director called us up and said, look, I have this girl in my office right now. I used her as an extra on one of our movies, I think was on a Tony Girl movie. And you guys should see her. She just got in from Europe. She spent the summer in Europe.


So she comes in and she has no makeup on. She has a sack dress on. Her hair is kind of curly and all over the place. And Adrianne looks and reads her for a few minutes and said, this is the girl. I say, Adrie, you're kidding. But Adrianne said, just give me a makeup artist and I'll do a test with her. So we tested her and I think it was two other girls and the makeup.


And I still have a photograph of her. The way he made her up. She was absolutely gorgeous and he was right in the picture from the beginning. He was passionate about her, some of the folks at Paramount like one of the other girls. So it was a real a real interesting dustup. But who who's going to get the part? So Michael Eisner, nobody could decide who was the girl. So Michael Eisner cause a group of the assistants in to the screening room, chose all three tests and they all walk out.


And it's Jennifer Beals. So the assistant. Yes. To the assistants pick Jennifer Beals. They agree with Adrian. And and you'd ask the girls, you didn't ask guys. No, I don't think there were no assistance on that floor. Is a woman infector? Just out of curiosity, do you remember who the other actress was who didn't get it? I do not remember the other one. I don't remember their names. It's been a long time.


Eighty two.


Yeah, the long a long time. Well, Tony Scott, Adrian, line two of the great visualised. I mean, those guys are some of my favorite favorite directors too. But and Schrader directed American Gigolo. Correct. And that is that really sort of your first big credit in the movies?


Yeah, that was my first, I guess, break I made. I made a farewell, my lovely with Robert Mitchum before that, which became my scars. But but I guess that was the one that really, really set us apart.


That movie is amazing. It's I don't want to say it's underappreciated because it's very appreciated. But I'm always talking to people about American Gigolo and wanting people to watch American Gigolo. I'm trying to get my boys to watch it right now. The movie is is just such a masterpiece.


But one of my favorite, because I watch it recently, the way that we watch movies and audiences tastes a particular around. Pacing have changed so much. There's no way you could open that movie with Richard Gere taking an eternity to figure out his close. That opening credit sequence is literally like, I like the shirt, no, I don't like this shirt. What about that tie? What about that? There's no way would you approve that cut today?


I don't think what was interesting is the way the country was in those days. It was work shirts and blue jeans. Nobody got dressed up other than bankers, lawyers. That was it. So we decided to try to find out who's the best designer, men's clothing designer, new fresh designer. So we talked to somebody at Women's Wear Daily and they said, you should look up this guy, Giorgio Armani. Nobody ever heard of Germany, so really, yeah, no, it was he was just in Italy at the time.


Wow. And at the time that it wasn't Richard Gere was John Travolta part. John Travolta said a huge success with Saturday Night Fever. I think it was I'm not sure if you're joking before or after, but he was or he was in an urban cowboy, urban combat that was after us, I think. So Paramount had a deal with him. Fairplay deal. You're going to have to pay them unless they put him in a movie. So, you know, we thought he was fabulous.


Wee, wee, wee. Went to Milan to meet Giorgio Moronic Moroder with Giorgio Armani with Travolta, and it was a ride at the Paris airport because he was such a star. We had to have a place around him and get him on the plane, get him off. We meet Armani. He loves Gianni measures and gets all the clever. We get all the clothes made for him and come back. And then John decides he doesn't want to do the movie.


But what was his reason? What did is that why what they told us was that his girlfriend had just died. He just finished another movie. He was tired. He wanted to just take some time off. So bright fun. So he turned to us and said, who who would you guys want to hire? And at the time, Christopher Reeve was a big movie coming off a Superman. So they sent him the script on a Friday. And he said the budget was obviously much higher with Travolta and was like seventeen or eighteen dollars million.


And so we decided, Paul and myself. So we'd rather have Richard Gere, which just came off of Mr. Goodbar and we thought he was sexy, talented young actor. So we slipped in the script at the same time. And Monday morning we get a call from I think it was Katzenberg and says Christopher Reeve has passed. So we said we, Richard Gere, would like to do it, and it's Richard Gere, why Richard Gere, a sex goodis, wonderful actor, and they again turn to me, said that what we're not going to make this movie with Richard Gere at 17 million dollars is not going to happen.


So I work with our line producer or with our line producer or our production manager. We got the budget down to like eight million dollars. So we went back in Richard Gabriel, eight million dollars and they greenlit the movie. And how did you get Joe Giorgio Moroder to do this? The score was that the first of his score had done Midnight Express previously or that.


But I loved his songs. I thought he was a great songwriter, great producer to the head of publishing at Paramount and said, I would love to meet Giorgio Moroder. Can you set that up? So I met with Giorgio. I gave him the script and he loved it. And he wrote the songs for it and did the score. Got very lucky. It's a very yeah, it's a very atmospheric. I mean, the whole Palm Springs sequence when they take off and that the music I mean, any time I'm in a convertible at night, that's like the that's the theme that's playing in my head as the American Gigolo.


Did I see correctly in your filmography that you're working that at least your company is working on some sort of new iteration of American Gigolo or we are taking that.


We're developing a pilot for television based on American Gigolo. It's a great idea. It is a great idea. So that's in the works, that's. Well, you're so I'm going to jump around a ton, but sure. You know. Other than maybe Dick Wolf, I mean, no one has cracked the code of television better than you have, particularly coming from movies with with the CIA, starting with the CSI franchise now is. Is this is it zikr is the original guy, correct?


Right. Is it is it true?


It is the apocryphal story true that he was a tram operator in Las Vegas who came up with this initial idea?


Yeah, his name is Anthony Sicher. Anthony Zenker. Yes. And the story is that he was had this idea to do this thing on CSI. So he called the Vegas Police Department, said, I'd like to ride around with some of your techs and see what happens when they go on to when they go on a murder investigation. So they they pull up in front of the seedy motel and they there's a body in this motel room and they remove the body and they take it back to the to the ambulance.


And Zica innocently walks in the in the motel room himself, starts walking around, and all of a sudden the hand comes out from under the bed. The murderer was still in the room. What was there? So nobody had checked under the bed. So that's one of his great stories. So we pitched the idea for it to every network except for KB's. And everybody who past. So we're going to meet with Nina Tassler at CBS, and Zica is a real interesting guy.


He's another great salesman, but he paces so many pitches, the story, he paces and he sweats and he acts out the parts and he's does fantastic. So he is pitch. And Nina says, I want it. In the room, she brought the autopilot and that was the start of CSI. Why do you think you can get passes on all those other networks and then you can go in somewhere else and they buy it? The room? What what's different?


It's the same show.


It's all about their needs. They they need a comedy because it was late in the development season.


And so they picked up a lot of pilots already or committed to light.


And so that's, I think, one of the reasons why that's one of the things that creative people and you're sort of as a good producer, you're half creative, half business, but straight creative people forget that. The world doesn't revolve around them, like if if I go in there and I get turned down by three networks, I think it's on me. But the truth of it is it's like we just already bought three comedies. We have room for three comedies.


We bought three and you're the fourth.


It's exactly how it works.


And that's that's the part of the business that young actors and young writers and young directors don't don't get to see is is the just nuts and bolts decision making that has nothing to do with how they feel about you or your project, sometimes more often times than not.


And it's so hard when you talk to a young actor and they come in and they do a terrific reading. But first, the physical type is right. And you reject them and they walk out of the room thinking, oh, my God, they hated me, my performance was terrible, not true, you could have given a fantastic performance. But he didn't have the look that the director and the producers of the writers were looking for. And a lot of it is on physicality, but great actors are great actors and they'll always rise to the top.


And I've seen so many actors come in and audition for us, didn't get roles later on, became huge successes in phenomenal careers.


How often are you at this stage or any stage involved in the and the audition? Like what? What level do you come in and start looking at the actors?


I usually start looking at them once the director as we do it now everything's on video. So once he has a group of who he likes two or three actors for each part, then we'll come in and sit with them and make a choice or say, let's look further.


Do you feel like that we've lost the convenience of the videos is great, but we've lost that.


That that looking into their eyes and getting there, because what you get now is I find this with casting on the shows that I'm producing is you can get actors now who are trained in delivering a perfect sort of soft tape. But, you know, when they're self taping, you can't go.


That's great. Now, could you do it slower or. OK, that's great. But maybe like a little more intense, like there's no give and take in direction that you would have normally before when you had the actors in the room and then some of these folks get on the set and that's the only way they can do it. Have you have you noticed any any of that?


Well, yeah, you're absolutely right. But what we try to do is if it's a stealth tape or we always try to bring them in. If they're if they're in the final final two or three, we've got to beat him, we've got to look them in the eye, CBS for years and years, I don't know if they still do it, but they make the actors, even though you put them on tape, you do all that kind of stuff with me.


The makers, the actors actually come into their theater and perform for the executives. They do the reading in their theater. So, wow, I don't know if they're still doing that, but that that's how every CBS actor was picked for lead roles.


How did the WHO become the opening for all of the great CSI shows? I know you're a WHO fan. Was it just that simple? No, it was.


I think it was ICA's. One of our team came up with the idea for the WHO, and we very fortunately they agreed to do it. And boy, I tell you, they made a fortune on it, which is go.


I know, I I've you know, we all I've licensed many a song and I famously know how much they got per episode for 20 to a year. And then you do that the the to the three shows total.


Right. Right. And I also I had a meeting with Zikr once and I said. No eminence front. Ever, and he goes, no, we actually cut Eminence front to the to the pilot of whatever the last spin off was. And and didn't and didn't go with eminence front. It's too bad. It's a great one, right? It's a great one, you're absolutely right. Of all of the stuff that you've done and how much I love it.


My favorite thing ever might be, though, the supercute of David Caruso's one liners on You Tube that goes into the I mean, if people haven't seen that, I highly recommend it.


It's him doing is Caruso isms. And then it goes right to the famous wow scream of the opening credits. Have you ever seen it? No, I haven't.


I have to look it up. Oh, Jerry, it is. You are going to love it. It's like, you know, see the one where he takes his glasses off.




And it's one after another. After another. After I played, I did a show called The Grinder for Fox. I'm really proud of a really funny show. We did one season of it and I played a. A crazy, self-important, narcissistic actor who'd been on a 17 season network procedural and now was having to find a new life, and I love Caruso, I love him, but I did rip off a lot of his stuff. In fact, I had his actual glasses from from from CSI.


And I took great pleasure and relish in whipping them off and doing what I called the crab walk.


He had. He had a thing where he would travel. He would put his hands on his hips and walk. And, you know, the whole thing about, oh, I'm so glad I have you.


This is the best.


Do you know his thing about being a ghost? Did that ever make it up to your level?


No, never heard that one. So and I've had this multiple confirmed because it's one of those things you feel like, oh, it's the apocryphal story. That's bullshit. I've had it confirmed. So his theory was that Horatio Caine. Correct. Was not an actual person. That Horatio Caine was a race, right, not not a ghost, a race, and for for for the discovery of evil people.


And he would not be photographed because his race and as you know, Wraith's don't enter or exit. That he would not be photographed entering and exiting, and if you look at the show, he's not I believe it. I believe I did not hear that, but who knows?


All of the young writers would say, have you had the talk with David yet? And so I love, but actually it's also a great movie star thing, it's like it's a very it's just a great thing that never, never be filmed, particularly exiting. Entering is one thing.


But if you watch all those shows, I think you can count on one hand the times that the David Caruso enters and exits, but I don't think people knew it's because he's a Raith.


I didn't know that so and I particularly knew every day you learn a thing about your career today from me that you never would have otherwise. Thank you so much, Rob. Oh, Jerry.


It's the least I can do.


Hold that thought. We'll be right back. I love the holidays, it's never too early to start thinking about the holidays. I like my Christmas carols. I put them on early. It's true. I love holiday commercials. This is a holiday commercial for Best Buy and I've never been more excited. I have goose bumps because for me, Best Buy is genius because literally anything that you want is there at a great price. It's like the world's biggest Christmas tree.


But you're not disappointed that your parents didn't get you something you got to Best Buy.


You go to that tree, you're going to get what you want and you're going to get it at a really good price. They've got you covered.


So if it were from me to me a gift that I would want a Best Buy, I was thinking, OK, so the Chris Trager, that part of myself, Chris Trager from Parks and Rec, what would he want from Best Buy under the tree? OK, so you can help me with this one. You can't. You're listening. This is not a live show. He's a fitness freak. OK, so maybe what I would want would be.


But he's also a budget man. He's been counter frugal. Trager's frugal man, maybe one of the hydro this hydro rowers. The Best Buy has them there. Awesome. Good work out. Save money on a gym membership. There are really, really cool. Rob Lowe has one. I think it's only fair that Chris might get one now. Better get.


I wouldn't mind a pair of jaybird Vistar, sweat proof wireless headphones, I can use them now because I'm sweating like a pig because it may be the holidays. The guy got news for you. It ain't the holidays in Los Angeles. In the trailer where I'm recording this at all and I'm sweating. And the ear buds are falling out, so I look look, the point being, whoever you're shopping for. Best Buy helps you focus on what matters most this holiday season, they have great deals on tech every day, so that's a great thing to look for there.


But it's on a budget and you can order online. You can pick it up in-store an hour later. So go to Best Buy Dotcom or visit a Best Buy store today. Or if you're a trader, you just run there. Never have we been more concerned with being clean. I'm not really a clean freak per say. But if I were. And let's face it, I'm becoming one. With each passing day, I would be using bonus power plus antibacterial, hard surface floor cleaner, you think about it, there's a lot of gross stuff that gets on your floor.


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And I'm so grateful it makes me want to sing the song. I'm so happy with them. But I won't because I'm not that good of a singer, and I know I'd like you to listen to the rest of the podcast, and if I started singing the state from Jingle at this point, I don't know. I don't know. I know we love the jingle. It's stood the test of time. It's like the Hey Jude of ad jingles.


Let's face it, it is. But if anybody can ruin Hey Jude. It's me, we know that life doesn't happen the way we planet covid has taught us that if we didn't already know it and it's more important than ever to think about your financial future, your life insurance and State Farm is the king of the mountain when it comes to that. I wish State Farm had career insurance or career insurance. Here's what I want out of State Farm.


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That's for, quote, life insurance, dot State Farm dot com, or visit your local state farm agent. I have been wanting to ask this question before I even started doing a podcast, I keep because people always say to me, whenever I do things or people talk about acting, who do you like, what are the bold choices? Who are the greatest movie stars, et cetera, et cetera. And I always say that I think the single bravest.


Acting performance in the history. Of the motion picture business is Johnny Depp in Pirates of the Caribbean. All right, I agree. I'm not kidding. I think Brando can fucking stand in line and here's why.


Because and this is where you get to say, Rob, you're full of shit when I'm done with this opening statements.


OK, so Johnny has done a career of weird, wonky, oddball goofball parts.


Some worked great. Some didn't. He'd try to play a leading man in a movie like the astronauts wife or something disaster. And it gets to the point where we all get in our career where they're like, not that many get out of jail free cards left. And Disney, meanwhile, decided to make movies about their theme parks rights, which people are like what? What is going to a movie called The Haunted? What? What? So they do the Haunted Mansion.


Which is about the haunted mansion ride, Eddie Murphy does it. It's a disaster. So like, all right, we're going to do the most famous ride we have, which is Pirates of the Caribbean. It's a movie about a ride. Now, it's hard for people to remember it that way because it's become in our consciousness these amazing groups of movies, which they are. But originally, it's a movie about a ride wreck. And so they go out to Johnny Depp.


You hire Johnny Depp to play Captain Jack Sparrow. Errol Flynn, the pirate, the big bleeding man, swash buckling, great jaw bone, chiseled, handsome man. And you get. What he gave you, right? Tell me what that was like the first time you saw those dailies, because there's no way you think you're getting that money when you're developing that movie, am I wrong?


100 percent right. The part was written like for if he was alive, Burt Lancaster. That's who was Jesus. Burt Lancaster. That's that's who Jack Sparrow was. We did a reading of the script at the Viper Room with some of the people we cast, including Johnny Weir, where that's the first place you want to read a script.


I know. I do. Like if they're going to like, hey, can we read like, let's do it next to all the vomit and the needles right at the Viper Room.


So he went to the Viper Room and he started playing Jack Sparrow, that, you know. Which was just hilarious off the off the wall character, so Disney says they weren't there, but Disney said we would like to see his costume.


And, you know, you always do hair and makeup and hair and makeup and costume that he's got. All his teeth are gold.


Right. So I get a call from I think it was Dick Cook who said we can't make this movie with him with all those gold teeth. I'm sorry. You know, this is Disney.


I don't know what the gold teeth is, where he drew the line. Not not the clay is. It's like the adult teeth. Hadn't seen that yet.


Oh, shit. Then OK. My God. OK, good. This is great. So we set a meeting with Johnny and Dick and myself. And so, you know, Dick says, well, you know the teeth and in and Johnny says, listen, this is part of the character. So I created the characters, got to have the teeth. And so I said, Johnny, just take a few of the teeth out, just have some normal teeth.


And they're just accented with the goal. It's better because you don't want the audience just looking at your mouth. You want to focus on your performance, so don't make such a spectacle. And he agreed to do that. And then Disney was happy with the look. Now, when the first couple of days of dailies came in, that was the total freakout. Oh, my God, the drunk. Is he gay? What is this character? What are you guys doing?


This is awful. And when you look at dailies, as you know, because you're a producer and an actor and you see stuff, you know, you get a variation of performance. Right. Some are really outrageous and some are a little. More so short term, so I said to them, I said, let us cut a sequence together just so you can see what he's doing. And we cut a sequence together and they became more comfortable.


They were never really comfortable with the performance and it was it scared and half to death. And it's really interesting because there was no merchandising done for the movie. They had very little faith. First of all, Country Bears, which was another one of their rides that they made, tanked. The already haunted house tanked, and now we're doing pirates. And when they came to us, they said, we want to make you got to make it for 50 million dollars.


That's what those other movies cost. And we had sea battles and we're in the Caribbean. There's no way we could have made it for that amount of money. And they want it to be a PG movie or a movie. And I went to Dick and I said, Dick, you can't constrain Johnny to a PG or G movie. Just not who this guy is. You don't want that. You want this movie to be from eight to 80.


That's what you want. And I promised him that we let me do it. PG 13 and Dick agree. I said there won't be any terrible language, but it'll be edgy. You won't know sexuality if I agreed to do it. That was the first PG 13 movie Disney had ever made.


Wow. I didn't. I didn't know that. That's amazing.


Got to give it to to the executives at at Disney for allowing us to do that. And Gore Verbinski is somebody I love now, something he did and some other things. So it was a young director. So we were very fortunate. We sent him an outline and agreed to do this based off an outline. And he was a sought after director. And I flew to to south of France, where Johnny was living with just some storyboards and big visuals to show them that the character and and we had like a four hour lunch.


I don't know how many bottles of wine, and he agreed to do it. So that's how we got him to to be in the movie. It's kind of a roundabout story, but.


No, but that's that's absolutely amazing. I mean, like for you to to to be able to embrace that, knowing they probably years later, I think they made it might have been one of your movies.


Was it Prince of Persia? Was that you. And it was us. Yeah. Because when I watched Prince of Persia and I saw Jake in that, I think that's probably what they thought they were getting when they hired Johnny Zach.


Right. Exactly right. And to see for you to see that at the Viper Room and go, I'm going to go toe to toe with Disney because they're going to freak.


What's interesting is my career is built on choices, choices for director, choices for writers, choices for actors. And if I believe somebody is really talented, I will move mountains to make sure that they get their vision, whatever that is. If it's a director, if it's a writer, if it's an actor. If I believe in that talent, I will go against anybody to convince them that we have the goods and you've got to take chances. That's what happened with Jack Sparrow.


That was a huge chance.


Huge, huge. I mean, I'm not kidding when I think it's the gutsiest, most important acting choice of it in modern cinema, because the stakes people don't realize how high the stakes were. It's one it's one thing to go take a big swing and some indie movie. Did you I'm saying.


But when it's it's you and it's Disney and it's all of that and you you got to you're at that time in your career as an actress, it's time to deliver a hit.


Pretty much.


And and and you go for that. I mean, he'll always be in the Hall of Fame for me with with that one and you guys for for enabling it.


He's a very inventive actor. And he you know, he had a young daughter at the time. He was watching a lot of cartoons with his daughter, and he he fell in love with the character Pepe Lupu. And that's part of his performance is kind of, if you like. So that's another how we draw from real life and what your life is going through at the time.


As an artist, somebody once told me that that Hannibal Lecter. Right.


That that Anthony Hopkins based Hannibal Lecter on how the computer in 2001, Olivier in the Entertainer. And Katharine Hepburn, I don't know whether Katharine Hepburn came from, but I understand it comes from it's little, it's like the slight, but it just I love that. I mean, if Johnny Depp can make a character out of people Lupu, he can make it out of how.


And the entertainer is a combination of Pepe Lupita and Keith Richards. Keith was a buddy of his. They used to come over all the time and go in Johnny's closet and say, this is a great jacket. He tried on in the walk around the room and the jacket and then he leave you take your jacket. So he based it on how he walk and how we talked. And so in a little bit of popular. So it was a combination of the two.


I have to at some point dig up the. The short film that Charlie Sheen and I made with Johnny when when when Johnny had just done. Was no, I think he was just getting cast in the TV series in what was the TV series he did when he was a kid, it was 21 Jump Street.


Right. And Charlie had this idea. And I think Charlie spent like. Like 15 grand of his own money when he was 20, which is a lot of money to blow up a Fotomat, remember Fotomat. So you go and deliver your film and they do it overnight. So the whole predicate of this eight millimeter movie that Charlie shot starring Johnny Depp was that they didn't deliver Johnny's film on time. And so he blew the thing up with an RPG.


And I think it was really just it was called RPG and it was just an excuse to blow something up on Point Doom and Malibu.


But somewhere that movie exists, I'm sure it's great. I think we need to put the famous Bruckheimer logo.


Now's the time to get it out there. People are just sitting around looking at YouTube videos. So this is it.


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So, as you know, I've been living the Atkins' way for many, many, many years. You know, watching my carbs, watching my sugars, eating high protein. But when I get hungry, I've got my special weapon. It's the Atkins chocolate peanut butter bar. They're literally in my car, they're in my man purse, yes, overmanned purse, they are wherever I may need them when I need them. And if you try it, you're going to be like, what the hell?


This has got to be B.S. because it tastes so good.


They're really good, they're my favorite bars. So now it's turned out that they don't just need them on the go, I use them in the house any time, anywhere. They're excellent stuff. You don't have to be doing the Atkins diet or the Atkins way of eating to enjoy the benefits of these Atkins bars. They are my secret weapon. So welcome home, Atkins Bar. Tell me about the new Top Gun. I'm so pumped and look, I'm kind of a I'm kind of jaded.


I'm like I kind of feel like I've seen everything, done everything, and but and I don't really get it up that much to go out. I'm so there for that movie. You have no idea how good it's going to be.


Fantastic. The flying sequences are the best that have ever been filmed. Tom, as an aviator himself, he flies helicopters, you fly jets, he does aerobatic work. He has his own single engine plane, World War Two plane that he has. And he's just an aviation genius. He can do anything in the air. And he wanted to bring the audience inside the cockpit and tell the story about these very courageous aviators. It's really the love of aviation.


That's what the movie's about. And so what he did is he had every actor. He told them, you're going to have to learn how to sit in an effort and feel the G forces, because on the first movie, we put the actors in an F 14 and every one of them threw up and we couldn't use one frame for the first time. We got some footage on Tom and he wasn't even a pilot then. But he's he's he's got a mind set to get anything done.


And so this time he said, we're going to train you for three months. So the first thing you've got to do is you've got to go through through it, escape from the from the from the jet into water because they do this water safety thing that you do. So what they do, among other things, is they put you in a cage, they blindfold you, they put you in the water and they turn the cage upside down.


You've got to figure out how to get out. That's just one of the little things that they do to train you. And then they put you in the cockpit of a helicopter and they dunk you and flip you and turn you. And you've got to figure out how to open the door and how to get out. So that's the first thing they started with. Then Tom put them in just a single engine prop plane, just a normal segment, just so they get the sense of flying.


Then he put them in an aerobatic prop, which they started to feel some G forces. You know, they roll them and flip them and then he put them in a jet aerobatic jet. And then they really started to feel the difference and the speed of a real jet versus a prop. And after they mastered that and stopped throwing up, you put them in the fatty, which takes it to a ten times the level of just a normal jet.


And so they had to endure. Flying in these in these planes for three months, so once we got them up in the air, they were accustomed to the G forces, but you can see it on their faces.


You see how they're stretched and, you know, they pass out. A couple of them did pass. Because you've got to what you have to do is you have to force the blood to your head. So you have to constantly grunt and get the blood up there so you don't pass out. And they were spectacular, every one of them. Just three months of going through that. An actor normally would rehearse for two weeks and then start start the movie.


But this was a whole different thing. And we also had a we built a cockpit on the ground. So what we do is we run their lines on the ground before they went up at the plane. But don't forget, they had to be the cameraman, too. So we had five cameras in the cockpit filming them and they had to turn the camera on, turn the camera off. And in order to save their lives, they had the sun had to be in a certain position because that because we'd already done some of the aerial stuff.


So you knew the sun was behind in front of them. So in the end, a certain line. And because you want to cut outside to see the jet, the sun had to be in the same place so they can remember where the sun was, what lines they had to say when the sun was at position. They had to turn the thing on and off. It's so easy to start acting. Forget to turn the camera on. So they had to go through this.


And Tom, what's interesting about Tom, you know how dedicated he is. He did the briefings on all the flights because you do a briefing before the flight and you do a debrief after it takes hours. Besides being in the air and being up in the air and being exhausted, getting up at 4:00 or 5:00 in the morning to do these sorties with these phenomenal Navy aviators, just fantastic and helped us to make this movie is spectacular, as it turned out to be here.


So I was wondering about this when Tom is flying the plane because he's an aviator, right?


Is he he's not flying that F 18, is he? Possibly.


Well, let me put it this way. He could he could very easily.


But the government wouldn't let it be really expensive plane. So that's why he's not in the cards. But he easily could step in and fly that plane in a second. That would it's it's certainly and he's ready to do what he could do it if they let him. And we tried believe we tried to do it.


Oh, I believe it with Tom. He is I but that. That both all of the teasers, all of the coming attraction trailers are as good as anything I've ever seen. I'm just you just want to tear the seats out because I'm so ready. And so the new the new release date is Christmas, is that right?


It is. It is. Let's hope everything is good then. And we can get a movie that hopefully will be opened sooner for films.


That's one of the ones I mean, that's a movie. I'm I'm all for streaming, but that's a movie you've got to you want to see in a theater. Are you sure?


It's enormous and the sounds are fantastic. And on Zoomer doing the score with Harold Ford Tommyrot was the original composer. It is really a spectacular film. Can't wait for everybody to see it.


Let's see what I do. OK, so I had I had Jon Lovitz on the show a while back and he was telling me and I think Judd's a big liar.


So I just I just created that he created that character. So. Yeah. Is that exactly.


He tried he tried to sell us that bad boys your movie. Was originally going to be him. I was going to be him and Dana Carvey, what come?


I mean, it's a different approach, obviously. Yes, it was him and Dana Carvey and Michael Bay did a test for them. And for whatever reason, Disney didn't go for it. And so the project became dormant for a while. We tried to know what really happened as Dana dropped out. Hmm.


We were left with John. There's varying stories of what happened on John's version and other people's version, but the movie never got made with John and somebody else. So I never give up. I just never do. When I believe in a movie, I just till I can get it made, I just keep pushing, pushing, pushing. And I met somebody, set me up with a young actor named Will Smith, who was basically a TV actor.


He'd done one movie previously. This guy comes in, he's charming, he's funny, he's handsome. And I said, this is the guy and then one of the executives at Sony because the picture was moved over to Sony when Disney passed and they were more excited about making the movie. So we had Will. But Will wasn't a big enough star. Martin Lawrence was a bigger star at the time that little was. And we sent the script to First Arsenio Hall because he was the hottest guy in the business at the time.


And unfortunately, he passed away. Fortunately for Will, he passed. And then we went on to Martin, who loved it and wanted to make it. Martin got the movie made. And that pairing is, you know, obviously we just had another huge success with the what's the third one? We're developing the fourth one. So but we're so talented. And we had to we're very lucky with two really talented people, three talented people. We had two actors and Michael Bay, Michael Bay.


This is his first movie. And he coming off commercials where, you know, he gets to do basically what he wants now, when you're making a move, you got to follow a script, you got to listen to the studio. And fortunately, when you do commercials, you have to deal with a client if you shooting. We did that commercial. She had to deal with the advertising agency. So he understood how to deal with the studio, which was great.


He got the sense you had to he got what you wanted, but also make them feel they were getting what they want. So he did an excellent job.


I got to tell me, what is your obsession with hockey?


Where does that come from? But for people listening in, Jerry, is I don't know how to I mean, you have kept hockey alive in show business.


Your you have your own league. I mean, I'll let you tell it. But when I think of when I think of hockey, I mean, you're you're literally Mr. Nicholson is to the Lakers.


You are talking well, here's where it started when I was seven or eight years old, my dad I grew up in Detroit. My dad took me to a red wing game, was in this old arena called the Olympia Arena, where you're basically almost over the ice. We were way up in the nosebleed section, but you were hanging over the ice. It was a fantastic experience. And at that time, the the Red Wings were kind of like the Lakers in their heyday.


They were a great team and they won a lot of Stanley Cups. So I went to some really exciting games with my dad. And then I said, well, maybe I should start learning how to play this game. So I got as a Christmas gift, I got a pair of skates and convinced hegemonistic and a helmet and the whole thing. So I started to learn how to skate. And I, I lived about three blocks from a Drive-In.


Susan, Detroit's in the winter. It's cold.


Drive-Ins are closed, but in their homes where your car goes up on a hunt. So between the hump, there's valleys and there used to be water in there. And so we used to play in the valleys there when it was so I'd walk three blocks, carry my coat and play it freezing cold and became obsessed with it. So I was always somebody who liked to organize things. So I took a bunch of our neighborhood buddies that played with us and I created a team.


And we had to go, I don't know, we had to take buses of parents, my mom didn't drive at the time, so I had to take a bus to go to the rink. Our games were at seven, so I didn't get up at 5:00. And sometimes my dad took me. But I had this little team. We weren't very good and we were terrible. But that was my experience of playing hockey. But unfortunately, I didn't follow it up until back when Gretzky came to L.A. and I said, well, maybe I should start taking skating less because I never could afford skating lessons when I first started playing.


So I started taking skating lessons and I put another group of guys together and we played in Pasadena, some actors, some people who I knew loved hockey. And then we eventually moved to where the Kings practice. Now we have a game every Sunday night and then there's another game Monday night that I play. So Sunday, Monday, when I usually can play hockey.


And what were the what were the legendary Vegas want? Because those were legendary. I'm the organizers.


So I started a tournament in Vegas and went on for twenty three years. Yes. I started with like there were, I think, 20 of us, Marty McSorley, I think being one of them. And what we do is we'd have had had two teams. We used to have one or two pros on each team, so bunch of bums, myself included. And with these pros, it was the greatest thing ever. And it developed into six teams where every team had three or four pros and we had over one hundred and fifty guys, friends coming and playing.


And then it dwindled back down to four teams. But now it's all just spread everywhere. Now we're playing with their kids. Wow, guys, I started with our kids. In fact, one of them is going to be drafted in the first round of the NHL draft he's in. Looks like Kobe in the first round. Really. So that's about now.


Do you get to draft as an expansion? And congratulations, by the way, you're that you're one of the owners of the new Seattle expansion team, correct?


Yeah. We get to have a draft. We take one player from each team. So that's great.


They tell me what's the name what's the name of your team? What's the name of the team? We're we're working on that right now.


Oh, this is great. Fantastic. OK, let's talk about names, logos, mascots, uniforms, ok. Because there's nothing worse not to scare you, you've dealt with titles, you're going to be just fine, but there's nothing worse than a bad name or a bad logo. I still can't get beyond, like, the Tampa Devil Rays. I can't I'm now they're not the devils are just the red. Like, you screwed up and you got like something to answer for.


So what do we what do we think? And it's Seattle.


So what I think it's more about a winning team. No matter what your name is, if you build a culture and you start winning, it doesn't matter.


I mean, The Mighty Ducks, because I was going to say that's that's the most egregious. That's your friend Mike Eisner, right?


That's our right. We want to promote his movie Smart Move, but they want the Stanley Cup. It's a good franchise, a terrific franchise. And they've had some great players play go through there. So it's oh, it's always about being getting a winning culture and you've got to win.


I for sure. I think. You should call it either the chiefs and as an homage to the greatest hockey movie ever made, Slapshot right, of course, or The Youngbloods for one of the lesser hockey movies.


Oh, another government may never go to the game. You go to games. I see a game sometimes. Yeah, I do.


I go to games and people just go crazy because there there have been that many movies made about junior hockey. Right. And and so young blood being you know, it's like a Bible for those kids were they're on the road. Everybody knows it, everybody watches it. So when they get to the to the bigs and I go and they see me, they lose, they lose their minds because they they think I'm so much better. I skate like a movie actor skates.


Well, I'm sure that's pretty good. We've had some very good actors skate with us.


I learned. I did. I trained I trained for young blood for six weeks, eight hours a day, every single day. I did not know how to skate when I started and by the end I could I was really good. I could skate. My stick handling was OK, but not anywhere near fillable. So I always say to people, I do all the skating. If there's a puck in the shot, it's not me.


Right? I'm kind of the same way, but I got to go in front of the net and they got to feed me the park. That's the only way.


Yeah, they call me the human tripod. I'm like, I'm the same way. Exactly. I'm like just tripod there with all the stress we go through in our business.


It's the only time I can take my mind off of all the stress that's around me, because at any moment I'll get killed out there. They're there faster and they'll run me over in a second.


You have to have gotten run over with all the hockey you've played. You have to have gotten run over. I got a doctor on call, orthopedic guy on call with all the times I've been slammed in it, mostly by accident, but because of my own doing, I run into somebody. But anyway, it's worth it. It takes a lot of the stress away.


Well, this has been going on. I'm going to wrap up with something that I like to do with my smarter guests.


And you qualify, which is the the low down. And there are a series of questions based on sort of like the old Proust questionnaire that used to be in the back of Vanity Fair. What is your greatest extravagance or whatever? I know what your greatest extravagance is. It's got to be the hockey rink you built in Kentucky. Right? Has to be. You're right.


You're absolutely right. I have a fabulous little three on three ranking Kentucky I've got to bring my friends to. And we have a great weekend playing and and just telling stories.


Kentucky, the hotbed of hockey.


Right. That's so great, I love that. OK, so your top three movies. Not yet. Let's do both. Let's do your actual top three movies and then let's do movies that you had nothing to do with your top three.


I won't tell you my top three. Come on. No chance. Because they're all your kids. There's no top three, which is your favorite dog. You're not going to tell.


All right. I'll let you get away with it now as my movies.


I love Bridge on the River Kwai, Doctor Zhivago, Driving Miss Daisy, The Godfather, just. Just old classics.


Those are good ones. I just watch River Kwai last week. Now as a campaign director. Can't argue with that.


What was your what is your favorite professional moment? That's a that's a hard one because I've had so many good ones, I think, you know, getting my hands and feet in and in front of the Chinese theater was how? That is a big win for for listeners like I think they'll give a Hollywood walk of fame to anybody at this point, considering I'm a recipient of that. But but hands and feet at what we used to call Grumman's, we can't what is it called now?


So any serious theater, you know? So that's that's that was pretty great.


That's that's pretty spectacular. Here's a great one. I love this one because I remember all of them. Do you remember the worst review? These are gotten here, by the way, I love how I love how quickly you answer that. I hadn't even gotten the question out of my mouth. You sure love that. Flashdance, the journalists call it a toxic waste dump, the movie Death that now cut to 10 or 15 years later, he sees the movie and he said, I missed it.


Really, a toxic waste dump is up there with mine. Mine was a movie called that I made with Marty Ransdorf and Lewis John Carlino called Class and it wasn't toxic waste dump, but it was a vile concoction.


Oh, my God. Well, you're right up there with me. I can only hope. Jerry, thank you so much. This was great, it was it's it's a rarity to get you out and to talk about your amazing life and work.


And good to talk to you. Thanks so much for your time. Up front. You bet. They care about. That was so great. I mean, it's not often you get to hear a deep dive with somebody like Jerry that he takes the time to to come out, do publicity like this, and it'll all be worth it, particularly if he gets me a seat for the Top Gun premier. And I don't know if you noticed, but the sneaky take away in this is that Tom Cruise didn't really fly the F-16 to the new movie.


Just see you next time. You have been listening to literally with Rob Lowe, produced and engineered by me, Devon Tory Bryant, executive produced by Rob Lowe for low profile Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross, Team Coco and Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Stitcher. The supervising producer is Aaron Blair's talent producer, Jennifer Sanders. Please write and review the show on Apple podcast and remember to subscribe on Apple podcast, Stitcher or wherever you get your pocket. Scam, con robbery and fraud.


Squad car robbery and from Galgut is what's Poppin listeners, I'm Lacey Mosley, host of the podcast Scam Goddess.


Each week I talk with very special guests about the scam. You scammers of all time want to know about fake heiresses. We've got them. What about career con men? We got them two guys that were wined and dined you and then steal all your coins. Oh, yes. They're also represented and I'm very excited to share that scam. Goddess has joined the Team Coco network. So check out the show. I've got guests like Nicole Byer, Jameela Jamil, IRA Madison, the third.


And I've even got a brand new episode where Conan O'Brien and I dig into the wolf of Wall Street. So join the congregation, listen to scam. God is wherever you get your back is. This has been 18 cocoa production in association with Sketcher.