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Welcome to love it or leave it vacc to the future gerwin back to the future. I do things like Mr.. At Boosie, when we all go out instead of home, all by myself in prime. Gerwin vice chair. Do things that we still. Try my folks along to. I love you and Don. Going back to the future of that amazing song was by Chris Keen loved it.


These songs are incredible. If you want to make it back to the future theme song, please send it to us at leave it at Crewcut Dotcom, leave it at Kröger Dotcom. Before we get to the show.


Last week, the House held hearings on D.C. statehood. And you know that crooked media. We are fans of making D.C. the fifty first state. We have new D.C. statehood mirch that you can get at the crooked store, crooked dotcoms store. As always, a portion of every order supports vote writers shop at crooked dotcom slash store.


Also, the Oscars are just around the corner. So to stay in the know, tune in to our award season. Experts on Keepit recent guests have included Oscar nominee resumed Tony Award winner Delroy Lindo and one division star, Kat Dennings, plus IRA Lewis.


Anita, they're there to, you know, subscribe to keep it wherever you get your podcasts.


Later in the show, we test a listener on Amazon's weird tweets.


I interviewed the devil and I had a great conversation with the host of the podcast. We, the UN housed Theo Henderson, which you should definitely check out.


But first, welcome writer and producer for Jesus Amaro on Showtime and the host of the podcast Make My Day, returning champion Josh Gandelman.


Good to see you. Good to see you, too. I didn't realize I was a champion in the past. Oh, you're a champion. Thank you. You're a champion. Thank you.


No doubt about it. And you are all doubt about it. Oh, that means so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so, so much.


Of course it's Kathy Griffin who said that in L.A. If you say congratulations to anyone, they won't say why. They'll say thank you. Yeah, because they just have so much going on. That's so funny.


I always want to say why. Because I like him so pathologically terrified of taking credit for things I don't deserve. So what did you hear? Congratulations. Congratulations. Screw you. Congratulations. You're not getting me to take credit for things. Let's get into it. So what a week this Sunday, Christians around the world will mark the holiday of Easter Easter, said Matt Gates. I hardly know her.


Oh, yep, yep. That joke makes me feel gross, but I don't think it's the joke. I just think it's the invocation of Matt Gates and the female pronoun her in the same room together. And I'm just like, well, something bad is going to happen. It's not great.


The New York Times reported that Matt Gates under investigation for possible sex trafficking and the beleaguered congressman went on Tucker Carlson show to say emphatically that he did not travel with a 17 year old, which is, you know, people noted slightly lawyered language. It is as if Jeffrey Epstein said, I never committed crimes on an archipelago.


You know, he really went on TV to split hairs, which is weird considering his hair seems physically impenetrable.


Yeah, he does have quite a look. I'm open to reading some kind of piece on the aesthetics of the right wing that connects Mar a Lago to these politicians.


Their appearance reveals it's like an attempt to cover some deep emptiness badness. Yes, and it can't be covered.


Gates specifically looks like he's a young guy who looks like an old guy trying to look young.


Yeah, he's my age. I understand. Like he's my age. And it's like, why are like I guess he's just putting some city miles.


Those are some city miles on the on the map gates machine, you know. Anyway, Gates happens to be the only member of the House to vote no on a bipartisan anti sex trafficking bill that got 418 yes votes in 2017 and not a single person. George Bush has even taken a moment to praise Mr. Gates for his consistency.


The man has a position. There's so much hypocrisy, I think, within the Republican Party.


Right, saying one thing in public and doing the other in private. And I think Matt Gates is the right person that says, like, yeah, I'm pro sex trafficking. Look at my record. That should be in his ads when he runs for re-election or when he hosts a new show on Newsmax. Yeah, he should just call it the pro sex trafficking hour with Matt Gates.


There are so many politicians who are like, do as I say, not as I do. Yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, but not this guy. No, he's like I'm a creep in my actions in my private life.


I'm a creep in my public positioning.


Yeah. He's literally a sex criminal in the streets and a sex criminal in the sheets.


I will for the rest of my days, I am never tired of the streets sheets joke, I love them, I love them 100 percent of the time.


It's a very day's work on a very pleasing rhyme. Always fun to set up a dichotomy. Yeah.


CNN also reports that Matt Gates showed nude photos of women he slept with two other members of Congress, including on the House floor. Did you hear that? Did you know that?


I saw that last night. What's even worse is that he pointed to the vaginas of the nude women and was like, this is where I want to deny them health care, which so it's just like a gross thing on top of the already gross thing it was doing.


No, I know it's just right, because, again, it was also a policy matter. And I just think it's also like, know your audience, man. It's like, OK, you want to show nude photos on the House floor. But Pelosi's like, I don't. Why are you showing this to me? Like I'm the wrong to show this to your breasts nipple?


Well, I this is like the same cohort that, like, thinks the little Nas X video is the problem.


He showed it to the squad they weren't going for. It just just was too. It wasn't discerning enough. And who would be interested in seeing the nudes he had taken of women in his life?


It's like borderline, if not outright criminal.


And it's just like, yeah, who is he trying to impress?


It also reminds me that the House of Representatives is a terrible work environment, like forget everything else, forget it, put everything else aside. He's at fucking work.


That is your job. You work at the house?


Yes. Have you not been paying attention to the world? It's just such like a growth.


I mean, like I think like frat boy as a as an adjective is maybe overused sometimes, but it's it's like a gross frat boy thing to do in addition to the fact that it's like, who are you going to do? It's like you're going to show this to other people in Congress, like Mitt Romney has 11 kids. Mitt Romney fucks like you're not out fucking a guy, a Mormon, a Mormon adjacent senator. I know this is the House floor, but that's my point.




I mean, Mitt Romney has 11 children and he's never seen a breast. That's how that's how much he fucks. It's hard to do.


I do go back to something that I've said before. But but Magots is what happens if a frat paddle becomes a person like that is what he is.


I think Magots seeing his TV appearances, I think like he's like Pinocchio. But if instead of the nose growing when he lies, his head just gets one mm. Dollar.


I also can't believe that we're in the middle of a mad gate scandal about sex trafficking and the word Nestore is not even coming up. I know.


I would have assumed that he was involved. Involved. I just feel so gross like this whole thing is so disgusting.


Right. And there are victims and. All right. He like, hurt people. This is a crime. This is not a victimless crime. I was really hoping that when Matt Gates went down for, like a sex scandal, it would be one that was like purely we could enjoy it. And we, you know, like I was hoping he would like have embezzled taxpayer money and used it to buy like a silicone horse vagina he could have sex with.


And then we're just like, yeah, this is fun for everyone. And so it's like I do want to say it's like important to think about, like he's hurting people and he's just a truly horrible man. Yes, that is a good point.


We joke, but he's a monster.


And, you know, Republicans should, as you said, go back to objectifying women the old fashioned way by trying to ban funding for Planned Parenthood. That's their bread and butter. Well, moving on from the Gates material, human error and vaccine manufacturing plant in Baltimore ruined up to 15 million.


Johnson and Johnson vaccine doses.


So, Josh, I did a little digging. All right. And here's what happened. So they had these two new people working at the plant, and they'd already screwed up at a bunch of other departments, but they had one last chance. Right. And so their boss, who is a kind of stern woman, set them up at this conveyor belt and their job was to make sure each of the vaccine doses was wrapped before it got to the packing department.


OK, and so it started. And at first it seemed like relatively easy. A vaccine dose would come and they would wrap it and let it go through.


But then all of a sudden there were more vaccine doses that they could possibly wrap. And the boss was clear. If even one vaccine dose gets to the patent department without him being robbed, that's it. This was their last chance. And so they're wrapping these vaccine doses as fast as they possibly can, but they can't keep up. So they're putting them in their shirt. They're putting them in their hat. They're taking some of them. They're giving themselves some vaccines.


And it just got out of hand.


And that's that's sort of what happened.


That's what happened to them. It's is this I Love Lucy. That's what happened to those Doucett. I Love Lucy. I'm not familiar, but I know nothing to do with that. No, I don't I don't understand the reference. It's honestly, I'm like, impressed whenever you. Ruined 16 million of something at once. I think about the times that I've fucked up at work, you know, yeah, just in the last week or so we have seen to like world historic fuck ups.


Like I remember when I was a kid and I was learning to drive and my learner's permit and I accidentally backed my mother's car into the closed garage door.


You got to open the garage door.


And that was hunting? Yeah, there was a car shaped dent in the garage door. I paid for that emotionally.


I mean, that came up for a decade. Forget the cost. I heard about that for a decade. And then they get the ship stuck in the Suez Canal. You run 15 million doses of the vaccine.


That is such a bad day. A really bad day. Oh, I hadn't even thought about, like, get this in context of the Suez, the Suez Canal captain. Oh, so embarrassing. Do you think all the other captains on their group chat or just blowing up that person's phone like shipping loser or what?


I don't know what boat jokes are like, but just sending them gifts of cars in too small of parking spaces.


As the captain of a ship, you really never want to be in the Wikipedia of a canal. Hmm. No.


You know, like the Wikipedia, unless you're the first one through the canal, then. Yeah, yeah. That's a nice place. But every other entry is like canal had to close because of a catastrophic spill, was caught embezzling tons of cocaine through the canal.


Would have been better, would have been better, would have at least that's a wrap, you know. Right. That takes some daring do boat crap. Yeah, this is just a fuckup. Yeah. Smuggling is like these. You know, you're getting something going. You're proactive. Right side hustle.


Yeah. Got to be hustling.


15, 16 million vaccine doses. Ruined is like at a time where so many people are waiting for the vaccine in addition to it being like, oh, what a bad day at the office. It's like this is kind of a great reminder of like Joe Biden's ability to tell these companies to, like, open source the recipes or whatever it is.


Yeah, get the recipes out there. It's called a recipe.


I don't think we need a more technical term, because I'll tell you what, when Chipotle had the problem with their their burritos, I was like, that's OK. I know where else to get burritos. Right. But if Johnson Johnson is the only one making MRN a vaccine, it's like we need a vaccine. Cordoba.


See, for me, when Chipotle had the troubles, that to me it was a great opportunity to go to Chipotle because there were no lines, there are no lines, and a lot of times you're just like, just take it. Yeah, just take it and go. That's how I feel about Get Out and Johnson and Johnson vaccines as a sugar.


Hit me with one. Let's see what happens.


Let's roll the dice.


The Supreme Court unanimously ruled on Thursday that the Federal Communications Commission could relax rules limiting the number of newspapers, radio stations and television stations that a single entity may own in a given market. Which is why we are proud to announce that love it or leave it is officially part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.


It's great to be here. It's great to be here. Hey, I'm a named gay character. I'm a gay character with the name.


It's possible you don't have to have a gay character in the Marvel universe.


Doesn't just have to be somebody in a group therapy session with Captain America.


This this is huge. This is a huge representation. This is exciting. I feel like it is a matter of time before you're either the Marvel Cinematic Universe, not you specifically, but any any entertainment entity is either part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe or is like pirate radio.


Yeah, that's it. It just like I mean, it's just going to be it's just either a Marvel movie or like some dreck from Jim Jarmusch, you know, it's just we're just like, oh, what's what's your radio?


What's your podcast on? I transmit it individually to truckers over CB radio.


I'm going to get killed for that. I don't think Jim Jarmusch makes drek. Hello. Yeah, quiet, quiet. Small movies, quiet. We need a small movie and every now and again, they can't it can't all be the Incredible Hulk. They can't all be the Hulk.


I do think, though, especially with like the Joker, obviously, as I know your favorite film. That's what I understand.


The The Joker, huge Joker guy, you go like tie for best joker, Jared Leto walking Phoenix, and then you go down Jack Nicholson working in comedy.


I just feel like the Joker became a household name without working in other kinds of entertainment, like he's just a standup. So I think there's something to be said for that.


But I do think that, like Marvel, what they're going to do is like they're going to creep into other genres, like we're going to end up with like like a like a Sofia Coppola style. Oh, yeah. Film about an Avenger.


We're going to get Mumblecore Marvel. Yeah, going to be on the Duplass brothers are going to Mumblecore, so yeah, obviously they're wearing masks, but aren't the real masks what we put on in a marriage like that's really what this film is about.


Yeah, they're superheroes, but they also kind of have lost their affection. And it's through the eyes of a kid. It's the squid and the whale and the Hulk.


Adam Driver just punches fully through the wall of his house.


Oh, my God.


I would see that by but I'm like joking. But it's like, sign me up.


I you know, I mean, I kind of like this. No way, of course. But I kind of like those like unbreakable style movies about like where it's like a superhero, but it's just like a tiny little story about like a guy being like, but if I die, what does it mean to live.


Yeah. Explore it, explore it, explore it. Hey, how does it affect your relationship with your son? I'm interested in that. I'm interested in that.


I don't need another like a ray of light going to the ceiling and then a grey battle against a monster where the rules are punch, punch, punch, punch, punch.


These punches don't count. And then one last super punch. That's the punch that counts. That tends to be the rules in these things.


Yeah, well, look, I don't know that, guys, but he he read some AVAC. But what about climate change? Where are we on that, Tony Stark? I don't know. I actually have not seen enough of the movies to know of. Tony Stark was working to combat climate change.


It definitely doesn't figure prominently. It may have been.


It's the kind of thing that you could see slipping in in some, like, kind of dialogue, getting like, you know, your investments in climate change, paying off handsomely, Mr. Stark, and then you're off to the next thing I think, you know, it's just bullshit.


Corporate lip service, the carbon footprint of his Iron Man suit alone.


I have to imagine. And look again, are we off topic? Sure. But like, what I have never understood is like, OK, the suit is very strong, but he's the person inside the suit and like, kinetic energy is conserved.


So, you know, like so why is it that every time he kind of crashes into the earth, they don't push him out, you know?


Right. Great for people that maybe the suit absorbs, it must absorb because otherwise it would just be like every NFL player, like he would Tony Stark would have just like the worst CTE in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.


Yeah, like that's, by the way, a direction we could go with the series, kind of a rocky five stage rocky paying the price of his of his career, all the success he had and yet the dark side of it. Absolutely.


Will Smith coming in as a doctor, an expert in the field. We're going to get you, though. We're going to get yelled at about Jim Jarmusch. We're going to get yelled at about like actually here's how the suit works.


Idiots tell the truth.


Tell the truth, Tony. There's Ironman suit. All right.


It's fitting, given how we've been talking about this. On Wednesday, New York State legalized recreational marijuana. A token here.


I'm talking.


No, not sorry. No, no, no, no. It's from gosh, eight plus eight plus.


Also, according to the White House, President Biden's dog, Major, was involved in a second biting incident this week. As a result, he will be demoted to captain.


I can't decide whether it's a good sign that we know about how badly behaved the dogs are because it's like, wow, the journalists are really getting into the nitty gritty, right? Like, we're really getting the little stories. So no corruption is going to go unseen or whether it's like a smokescreen, like every time Biden is like changing his immigration policy, he's just like, hey, major, maybe take a little bit out of that guy's hand.


Maybe we can do a Friday news dump. Yeah, we're doing some we're doing some controversial iOS.


Can champ take another shit in the dip room? That was actually pretty helpful.


I do like the idea of seeing how badly behaved the president's dogs can get. I wanted to get to like Beethoven.


Well, Beethoven just pausing to remind everybody that the plot of the children's film Beethoven is that an evil man wanted to test bullets on Beethoven's brain.


That really, really is the plot of the film Beethoven is that an evil weapons manufacturer or dealer pretends to be a vet so that he can kidnap Beethoven, so that he can test his super brain bullets on a human sized skull.


That is Beethoven's skull. That is the I look, I. They say, I've not seen this Charles Grodin, Bonnie Hunt vehicle since I was a child. But this is seared into my fucking memory that the plot of the film is about stopping a man from testing bullets on Beethoven.


And again, no, I'm not criticizing it because that is such a, like, consultancy group solution to him being like, well, I want to shoot people in the skull. And they're like, that is a bad luck. Is there like a really big dog? Like, isn't that worse?


Like, depends on how big the dog is, but it's also unaddressed in the film is like why it has to be this family's dog. It's a really intricate plot. Like he gets to know like the dog is. It's personal. Yeah. He's very intent on this one dog.


Right. Instead of like creating a dog's skull in a lab or something like a synthetic options. Yeah. He's like, we need to disappoint those kids. That's who I want to see cry.


If I remember in order to get Beethoven, he frames Beethoven for a bite. He pretends to have been attacked by Beethoven, which obviously the children know is is alive because Beethoven would never hurt a living soul. Beethoven's gentle giant. He's a gentle giant. Absolutely.


Just a gentle giant would never do it, which is obviously what sets up the third act anyway. Major is a vicious monster and just a ferocious animal.


So anyway, Biden jumped onto a countertop to avoid yet another lunge from this untamed, unquenchable beast that now can only survive on human blood like the bear in the film The Edge. If you go back to your your scripture in the film The Edge.


So Biden gets on the counter and then he announces his infrastructure plan, it's two trillion dollars to modernize our electric grid and transportation network and other infrastructure, and one trillion will help fight climate change. And new polling out shows that Americans are more likely to support it when they find out it's paid for by raising taxes on the rich and corporations infrastructure, said Matt Gates. I hardly know her.


I saw it. I saw it coming. And I clenched my body like I was about to get into a car crash.


It's because, in a way, you were.


In a sense you did. Mm hmm.


I feel like he could pull the full Cuomo right of being like, oh, allegations against me. Everybody get high as hell. He should just be like infrastructure, baby. I'm all I'm all in, you know, could just totally flip and people would be so mad at him. The Republican Party would be so much madder at him for supporting a Biden policy than they would for sex trafficking.


Oh, I mean, if there's one thing that we have learned that there is only one sin in Republican politics and it is the sin of supporting minor tax increases for rich people in the corporations, that that's the only unforgivable act.


The thing I saw this not to go back again. I saw that the reports that Matt Gates was using ecstasy, right. Like that was one of the other things which like I'm not here to look down my nose at people who use recreational drugs.


I will say my kids hangs out with a lot of Holocaust deniers. And I think if you don't think the Holocaust happened, I would be so happy if there was no Holocaust. I would need to see.


Right. Just like, hey, you know what?


There was no Holocaust like for real. If I was for real, I'd be like, wow, what a what a weight I've been carrying. Just thinking about the worst evils. Humanity can come. I mean, there's other ones, but that specific one as a Jew. A big one. Yeah. I'm Rolan. I just want to touch Velvet and dance to it. Yeah.


Yeah. I would say hell is being trapped in a conversation with Matt Gates while he's on MDMA. I think that that is the definition of hell on earth and I would not wish it on my worst enemy.


It's Josh Gandelman has been so great to talk to you. This was so fun. Thank you for helping us break down the news this week.


When we come back, I talked to Satan himself about that. Yeah, that. Thanks for having me, John. Don't go anywhere. There's more. Love it or leave it coming up. Love it or leave it is brought to you by policy genius. April means a lot of not so fun things getting fooled, getting rained on and getting your taxes done.


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Don't be a fool. Don't be a fool. Pity the fool. Yeah. There you go.


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And we're back.


Earlier this week, little little little little Noisettes release Montoro friends call me by her name and brands, which has created some like controversy over a romantic interlude in the music video between the singer and Satan.


We reshot a little Marzak, but he was unavailable. Thankfully, the Dark Lord was an easier booking. Here to discuss his appearance in the music video is the Devil.


Thank you for being here, Satan.


You didn't plug my podcast, OK? I figured we'd do it at the end.


Hi, I'm the devil and I have a brand new limited series podcast. It's a candid conversation about life, about growing up, about cancer culture with me and one of music's biggest names.


Nervous, nervous about who this is. It's Prince. No, stop it. You stop it. It's not. It's not. It's Clapton. It's Eric Clapton.


We do it over Zoom. It's really just two friends talking. You know, he talks about his racist outburst. He talks about that anti lockdown's song he did with Van Morrison. I talk about working with some parts to make a brand new coronavirus. And my work on Emily in Paris, you can get new episodes exclusively on Luminary.


It's only on luminary. That's a bummer. Can we just focus, though? I really want to. That's not why you're here. Yeah. Are you surprised by the backlash to the video?


Am I surprised that there's backlash to a music video in which a young man slides down a pole into hell and then two men pantomime gay sex, one of whom is me? Are you under the impression I participated in this video because I thought no one would talk about it? Honey, I'm the devil. I invented drama. I quit my job one time and they wrote poetry about it. People still talk about what is literally my first scandal. And the only thing that happens in it is a girl eats a dang apple.


Do you know how hard it is to sell that just happens? No, no. You have to choose your moments, John, OK? You have to read the zeitgeist. Mama, I was generating likes before the earth cooled my. Story is the story, but the song is also about empowerment and overcoming the confines of sexual and gender binaries.


I can't believe you're interested in that message. I know the video is meant to create a firestorm. That's clearly like the goal. But that firestorm is one in which a young person stands up for the idea of being open about the sexuality of, like, rejecting shame.


Yeah, and I hate that part, obviously. Honestly, I was just I was bored. Trump is gone.


My boy Chris Harrison got canned being accused of being fun. Like a while ago. My prank show with Chris D'Elia got put on hold and I still don't know why.


Do you know what happened to him? You don't you don't know why. No, he won't return my texts here.


Ghosted goes to the devil, yeah, that's too bad, that's too bad, that's too face time them the other day without texting first, which I know is rude, but I just had to know what's going on. That's such a that is something the devil would do. That is something the devil would do.


He wouldn't even answer honestly. It's just I'm bored. It's like how many novels can I write under my pen name. Robert Galbraith skipping.


I'm not going to. Thanks for the last president, by the way. That was a huge bummer. Oh, Trump. You can trump. Yeah. Trump, no.


Oh, God. I'd love to take credit, but I don't work that way. You know, I play a long game, babe. You know, as long as the board game Gloom Haven, which I also invented, we have a saying in hell. John, have you been to hell?


Not not recently. Not since they renovated. Sure. Oh, it's beautiful. Now we have a saying, though. Give a culture Trump and you'll have Trump for four years, teach a culture to create Trump and you'll have Trump's for the rest of your life. Chilling. Do you love it? I mean, it's a hard thing to hear. Yeah.


Oh, I did convince Ted Cruz to grow that nasty beard, though. That was me. That was you. That was you.


But I still don't get it like it's it's a manufactured controversy. Like I was struggling with this. Like, yes, it's good for a little Nozick. It's good for the grifter's who stir up outrage against him. It's good for everybody talking about it. We're doing the segment like we're commenting on it, but we're also part of the firestorm. Are all generated content about this all the time? Well, you could have scripted this.


Like the second you see the video, you know what controversy is coming, the backlash, the backlash to the backlash and the generally cool with it, because I like the message it's sending.


I like the conversation we're having, but it's still just kind of feels like I'll tell you what it is.


Like noise. Yeah, like noise and lots of noise. Honey, when Mark and I were figuring out Facebook, even I didn't understand the power of noise. OK, I'm a huge fan of lying. Lies are my bread and also my butter. But then with Mark, I said, this is my aha moment, you know, which is a phrase I learned from Oprah when I was telling her about the secret.


So you told her about the secret that came. That's how that happened. Uh huh, yeah. Dr. Oz, too. Was that you from start to finish?


That was when I was one of the few. I didn't even need my team. That was all me concept pinned page. And then she wasn't born.


Do you sometimes find that it's nice to kind of do that all yours?


Just a show like that, you can still do it, you know, one hundred percent, especially when you're a leader, they need to know you still have the stuff you know. OK, all right.


We're off topic here. OK, so you were talking about noise. The thing with noise is that it's way harder to overcome than lies. OK, the truth can drown out a lie, but you can't drown out noise. What are you going to do? Make more noise than I win? You can only make more of it. All right.


Go, Patriots. All right. Say everybody knives out. Didn't even have a twist. Amazon doesn't need unions. Get out of here. They like to poop in those bottles. They like to hear devil. Get out of here, you devil. Thank you to the devil himself.


Josh Sharp for joining. That was hilarious. We come back my conversation with Theo Henderson.


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Hey, you've been to that place, Blockbuster and we're back.


He is the host of the podcast We the UN. Welcome Theo Henderson. Theo, thanks for being here.


Thank you for having me. For your gracious welcome. So I wanted to start by asking you about the podcast. We the UN House. Can you just tell us a little bit about it and why you're doing it?


Basically, it's due to my limited experience and the ever growing frustration of mainstream media is categorizing the house and the community and all of the nuances that we're lacking in mainstream media. I took it upon myself to create a independent journalism or guerilla journalism, to interview my closest friends, as well as in-house people in other communities to get their stories and to basically humanize them where that seems to be lacking in the mainstream media, if you will.


I'm a new listener, and there were two things that I found striking when I was listening to the show. The first was just hearing the voices of unhappy people and just interviewing people about their experience. Because what was striking to me is I think there's a lot of assumptions. People have a lot of baggage they bring to the conversation. And this sort of cuts through that about what the experience is like. In one question you ask is what was the first night of being on house like?


Can you talk a little bit about what you've learned? Just interviewing people about their own experience? How differed from yours? What's your what have you learned in these conversations?


Actually, I've grown better interviewing as a result of it and understanding the nuances about how when I became on house, I definitely drank into the mainstream Kool-Aid. I listen to some of the corrosive ideas of deserving and undeserving. Sometimes media always only gets superficial issues. So what I started to talk with White House people. I noticed there was a different development that mainstream media does not have. They relaxed around. They could be a little bit more open because we have a shared common experience and they tell me their stories that maybe a lot of times you just don't want.


They want the crunchy headline you see, like the streets of shame. They talking over the White House person. They're trying to get their point and produce it doesn't want them to get the idea of just being neutral or indifferent to people's real trauma and experience. So that way, when I found out about the scope of helplessness and the scope is a lot wider than people that are people write them off as mentally ill, no one to work or substance usage.


And that's the thing to be most people's ideas of what helplessness is. But we're not talking about the ever growing and frightening spread of and how elderly senior citizens, they can't work themselves out of this. They're not on substance use and they're not mentally ill. Some of them have maybe dementia and Alzheimer's, but it's not the scope of what they're talking about. Most people really frame that and they call upon the law enforcement as the panacea to this all the going well.


You had a conversation with a woman named Shirley and she talked about how hard it is to not drink, to stay clean, which she sounds like she was successfully able to do when there are no tools and resources. She felt that she had had her she had built her own internal tools. But it's hard to be around a lot of people who have not had the opportunity to do that and have no resources whatsoever. And so I do think part of this, too, is people talk about mental illness, they talk about substance abuse, not the inability of people dealing with those issues to get out of it if they're on house.


And even if they are, that even though she has the intestinal resources to abstain from drinking, she's still in house. That's the second part of the issue. But also the reason why many people are using substances, surely also pointed out, is to cope with the trauma of being on house because it's the. Out of experience, every constant NIMBY or neighborhood staying constant police harassment, because people that live in houses are calling the police or city council members and painting them as the pariahs of society.


And so that could take a toll in dealing with the winds and rain of heaven and response of dealing with cold climate and different challenges like vermin running over you and things like that. I didn't put up any house person running around calling on house people to live a year out there in the same environment and see how they perspective and their mind and their landscape would change.


And how would they cope with what's also striking in the conversations you have as you talk to people that are on house? You also talk to people that are working with the with people who aren't housed. And what seems to be a thread was how much of the job of organizers of volunteers is trying to keep public services at bay, trying to keep the police out, trying to keep sanitation out, trying to just keep the government away so that they can do their work.


And then how much of the work that these private organizations are doing that we wish the government would do right there doing the work that we kind of would rather the government do. What has been your experience in dealing with in the services that nonprofits have been doing that you wish the government would be doing?


Well, let me be clear. The city and the government are not there to help one house people. There are solutions are always been trivialisation. Case in point, the Echo Park debacle, they believe that house people should be criminalized. And once we get them into services, we should always have the specter of criminalization or making a paternalistic hundred white supremacist idea of health services. I can't talk about nonprofits, non-profits I have an issue with because many of them have a religious slant to it.


And then a lot of it is doesn't reach the entire scope of house because they are telling them to go to hell or they having this leave, put yourself up by your bootstraps. But when I can't speak intelligently on the people that I talk to, these are volunteer people that are not paid and they are coming in. For example, street watch ground game catering for all those organizations are stepping forward because they're in need and they are trying to reimagine public safety.


And when you contact one, people like they are linked together like LOSA and sanitation. And when they are coming up in people's lives and when people have the temerity to stand around and get afraid and call police, they make it like the situation is such an untenable. Like this morning I covered the slipped out and about and this elderly woman who was disabled and called over 13 service workers, but at least six or seven police officers to up in this woman, as well as this other elderly gentleman, Mr.


Tony, that could barely walk. And when we've seen this out of three billion dollars, this is fifty four percent of our budget. And we utilize them as they're the panacea to every social ills that there is without understanding their intent, that they are not there to help on how the last workers are abrasive. The sanitation worker was very disrespectful to the elderly woman about the abundance or the food that she couldn't cook anyway because she did not have the cooking implements to do that and then basically trying to shame, humiliate them.


And then when they get on places like The Hollywood Reporter or Los Angeles Times who doesn't really hold them to task, they make it sound like it's the activist that is causing the hang up or slowing down the production of getting on house before. But it's really they refused to meet with the people that have a say in their own lives. I'll give you an example, if I may, and I'll let you go to the next question. Let's say, for example, that you were looking for a home, you were looking for an apartment.


You know, your lights are at your dislikes are you have a pet. You may don't want to smoke and you may want to have another person. And it's all of these issues that it's according to you. And you go in and you act these kind of questions. And in return, they may be the place that you're looking for, maybe is close to transportation because so you want to get your groceries, you may not have a car. You might want to take your laundry, go down the street.


Now, let's imagine this take this to another concept. The community want this very same thing. They don't want curfews. They want to cater to the open door. They want to be able to be respected like adults. But somehow the mindset of maybe some of the nonprofits as well as the city refuses to allow that humanity. And they think, what if they want to go and take their shopping somewhere else? Or maybe they don't want to eat the food that's given to them because they have a allergy?


Well, maybe they have a dietary need. And so they might want to go in there, but they can't bring certain things in or let's say, for example, that people have certain suffering from illnesses and they believe in alternative medication like CBD or cannabis smoke. That will be grounds to check the person out of that. All right. Let's take another step forward. Someone is having separate issues and they don't have the support of services to support them and they have a relapse.


That's another the grounds to eject them. So. When you hear these questions and when people are saying that they want to stay at the table, they want to talk about how can we meet people where they are and have understanding instead of this carceral idea that we just throw them in there and we force them into it and they don't like it, they're going to jail or we're going to take them and create more hardship for him. This is not solving the problem.


This is what the city has to offer.


I'm curious what you think about how we can make a change here. These organizations that are on the ground, are they doing the kind of work you'd like to see the public sector adopt? Are you seeing the actual tools and methods and ways to help people, really help people in what these volunteers are doing?


I wouldn't recommend them if I didn't believe in them. So I believe in them and I recommend them. They are reimagining of the state and because they're having conversations, ongoing conversations about changing the dynamic. So we're doing de-escalation things. They're doing trauma informed care, they're doing harm reduction, all of the things that the city should be embracing instead of the model of a beating down on house people, sweeping them up and putting them in jail and causing more hardship.


Can you talk a little bit about Project Room Key and if there are aspects of it that are working and what aspects aren't working?


Well, Project Room Key is a step above streets in some respects. It has a shower where you can go and take a bath and have a bed. But with one of the things that it doesn't work is that took the TV out. They took the phone out. You have a room that looks like a jail cell and you have a curfew and you want it in and then you're treated like as if you are in jail, but you're free. You're not on any kind of trouble.


So basically, I've heard mixed reports on how it's people like it because it's a way for them to feel safe and have a place to put the things, because some people that run on a project room key doesn't have those same structures. But many of the houses that I've composite and if you have stayed out of the office, they did not like the aspect that they lose their freedom and they didn't like the aspect that is a pervasive idea, what the staff members do not always the security staff members, that they are the scum that's on their shoe and they've been treated like that and they don't appreciate that.


I wonder if people listening hear that and they say, well, this is still better than being on the street. It's still a bed in a room with a roof. People always say that. Yeah.


What's your reaction? Curious what you think about that.


It's always interesting. Whenever I push the conversation back, I says, OK, let's trade your position. Let's put the house in your place. And you live there for a year and then you come back to see how you like. But then always it appears that the conversation fades off because like this gentleman that works sanitation, he was trying to push that very same thing. And I said, OK, it seems like, you know, that this is a problem, but yet you want to put someone else over.


So what does that say to you about a person? Because you're giving a personalistic a harmful solution where you know that this dehumanizing human beings, but you're OK with it being a vulnerable population, but you won't take the courage to jump into that. So that tells me, you know, it's a problem, but you don't want to go through that same suffering.


So if you don't want to do it, why do you think other the people go to are there strategies or policies that you've seen that are working that you think that we should be adopting, that you should point people to, that we should point people to most of the actions and things that have taken place in the city that's starting to change some things as been backing from the activists and policy, like, for example, noticed that being on beat a couple of times with other places where they're doing cleanup before sanitation arrived.


So all they can do is just stop playing and leave the house and capital. The second thing we are doing is understanding the nuances of medical issues. And I think one of the things the Street Watch is doing a very good job of is trying to get a medical statement from doctors to tell them where and CDC guidelines as well as medical issues. You should not be moving people that have open medical issues just because you want to clean the sidewalk or some NIMBY, Nancy or NIMBY.


Nobody wants to enjoy the life of a duck or whatever nonsense that they have and not understand the true scope of the problem of how exploding rents are not livable wages. All of these kind of things, along with medical challenges, make up this whole recipe of this whole stew of corrosiveness.


What can people do to get involved? How can they how can they help? What if people are listening and they want to support you, they want to support the work you're doing? What should they do? Two things.


I have noticed that it's very difficult for people to support that with help. And the second thing is, it's like I have a podcast that's auditory and I have a visual and I strongly encourage I've been trying to get to where that I can get two thousand views. So if you can please go to Wheadon house the videos, because a little more expanded in the auditory and you can see a little bit more and can get a little more insight. So my Patreon and then also have a demo.


You really support this kind of thing because this reporting, it's not embraced a lot with the mainstream media that some of them that slowly getting to the point to it, but they're still not quite there yet.


But I'll give you straight with no chaser Theo Henderson, thank you so much for your time. And everybody search for we, Thanhouser, listen to it, support this work and hope to see again soon.


Thank you very much for having me on. Thank you to Theo for joining us.


When we come back, I quiz a listener about some unsettling Amazon tweets.


Don't go anywhere. There's more. Love it or leave it. Coming up, we're back.


Amazon, it's one of the largest companies on Earth and it has made its founder the richest person in the history of the world. But it's also paid a price for success.


That tweets also a documented record of dystopian work conditions and brutal incentives exposed by journalists and whistleblowers from bottles of pee to dead bodies unattended on the floor. This has led to an historic organizing effort at one of Amazon's facilities in Bessemer, Alabama, as we speak. The National Labor Relations Board is counting the votes very slowly for some reason, the results of which may change the power dynamic between Amazon and its workers. Amazon is not taking this lying down. You're not allowed to lie down.


They have some tweets of their own, including some by supposedly real Amazon employees who can say what they want so long as what they want to say is what Amazon doesn't not want them to say, if you understand what I'm saying.


But these Amazon tweets, like any photo taken at Mar a Lago or any interview with a golden girl about working with Bea Arthur can hide an underlying existential sadness just beneath the attempt to paint a happy portrait. In fact, we don't think you'll be able to tell the difference between real tweets sent on behalf of Amazon and ones we made up. That's why we are joined by Alissa.


Hi, Alyssa. Hi. And we are going to read also some real quote unquote, real Amazon tweets and some ones we made up. And you have to decide which are the real ones real adjacent and which are the fake ones.


OK, Alyssa, OK, where in the country are you? I'm in Washington, D.C.. Nice. Should make that place a state. We should. I agree.


All right. Here we go. Are you ready? Yes.


I can safely say that none of my ideas have panned out anywhere near what Jeff Bezos has accomplished. I am more than happy, though, to continue working here at BFE four in Washington. I receive a more than fair wage and work with some pretty good people making history every day. That's fake.


No, that's a real one. Next next tweet, longtime pick her first time caller.


Amazon gives us breaks with plenty of time. Just the other day, I went to the little employee's room for 10 minutes, which left me more than enough wiggle room for the 10 minute walk back to my station, even though I was lost in a kind of fog and came to in a different part of the warehouse.


OK, that is big.


OK, next week I don't want to bring up images of the three bears with the too much, too little thing, but my wages are just right bare wink.


Seriously, I can pay my bills just fine.


That one's got to be so weird. It's real.


That's real. You got it. Amazon has really developed into something pretty amazing since it started in 1994, and I for one, am sure glad it did. I have been with the code just over a year now. I wouldn't trade my time in the FC for anything real.


Real. Hey there, Hater's. Yeah, I work at Amazon and yeah, I like it here. People buy so many dildos. That's hilarious. A job with benefits and unlimited dildo. Chuckles Sign me up fake.


Yeah. Yeah it's fake. Yeah. I suffer from depression too.


And at one point I wanted to quit Amazon but I realized it was my fault for the problems I was dealing with and not Amazon's. I'm allowed to talk to people, but sometimes I don't want to. Now I have some great co-workers to pass the nights with once real.


That one's real. Yeah. Next tweet.


Hey, probably shouldn't tweet this year, but I am stuck between a forklift and the side of what appears to be a wading pool for children. It is Minyon Themed if that helps you isolate my location, Faith, Yaddo and SPAC.


And finally, last Thursday was my five year anniversary working at Amazon. Five wonderful years of frequent bathroom breaks and lessons learned. Here's to many more.


That one's real. That one's real. Elyssa. Yeah, you've won the game. Thank you. We come back, we'll end on a high note.


Don't go anywhere. Is love it or leave it and there's more on the way and we're back because we all need it this week. Here it is the Heino.


I love it. It's Tobi from Arkansas and my high notes for this week is that I was able to celebrate Passover with four or five other friends, including some small humans, that we're able to be vaccinated and celebrate together and understand that we weren't able to celebrate together last year. But in the middle of Arkansas, where we joke that we only had three Jews, we were able to be together and to be safe and. To uphold our traditions of remembering the exodus and remembering what it's like to be a person, we discussed how we can better advocate in our own communities and uplift those who are currently oppressed.


So very grateful for the vaccine and the ability to safely practice our freedom of religion here in Arkansas. Love it.


Hi, John. This is Leah from Minnesota. And I want to talk about my six year old son. He has been trying for months to snap his fingers. And the other day at dinner, it clicked in every sense of the word. He was able to snap his fingers and the look of pride on his face when that crystal clear snap right out was just really heartwarming. And we celebrated and we snapped and just had a great evening. So I hope you have a great day and thanks for everything.


I love it.


I'm calling from she I can't say that I know for the week and I know it's a little cheesy and it's not, but my Heino is these high notes every week they make me a little bit emotional and just me with such hopes. So my Heino for the week after the show and the title. So thank you so much for all you do and I hope you are thinking.


Thanks. I love it.


My name is Jen from Portland, Oregon. My district is after 28 years as trama, I finally have a product therapist and have finally trusted someone and am about to get to work and leave it and let myself say thanks to everybody who called in.


If you want to leave us a message about something that gave you hope, you can call us at two one three two six two four four to seven.


Thank you so much to Josh Gandelman, Theo Henderson, Josh Sharpe and everyone who called in. There are five hundred and eighty four days until the 2022 midterm election. Have a great weekend. Love it or leave it is a crooked media production, it is written and produced by me, Jon Lovett, Lee Eisenberg, Jocelyn Kaufman, Pallavi Gwendolyn and Peter Miller are the writers are assistant producer is Sidney Rapp. Bill Lance is our editor and Kyle segment is our sound engineer.


Our theme song is written and performed by Shirker, thanks to our designers Jesse McClain and Jamie Skil for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast. And to our digital producers Nahm Melkonian and Milo Kim for filming and editing video each week so you can. Most of us want to be better, but we're not sure where to begin. Well, this year you have Chris Duffie to help you tune in to Ted's new weekly podcast to hear from guests and past speakers who might just make you a better human phone.


All your chips in the Chris Duffy basket, How to be a Better Human, your guide to becoming a little less terrible. Listen now on Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts.