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You ever listened to someone speak and say to yourself, Oh, my gosh, I need more. I need more from this person? Well, that is exactly what I feel about my next guest today. Lynn Twist is a global visionary. She has committed her life to alleviating poverty, ending world hunger, empowering the status of women and girls, supporting social justice and environmental sustainability. The scope of Lynn's impact ranges from working with Mother Teresa in Calcutta to working with refugees in camps in Ethiopia. She's explored and studied the threatened rainforests of the Amazon and guided the philanthropy of some of the world's wealthiest families. She writes about her work in the bestselling award-winning book, The Soul of Money, transforming your relationship with money and life. Her Ted talk on the topic had me in awe. And her latest book, Living a Committed Life, finding freedom and fulfillment in a purpose larger than yourself will have you rethinking everything you thought you knew about what it means to seek a higher cause. I myself am a firm believer in action, looking for ways I can put the work in. I left this conversation motivated and invigorated, and I hope you will, too.


I'm Hoda Katvy. Welcome to my podcast, Making Space. First of all, Ms. Lynn Twist, I am so excited to be sitting here with you because all roads keep leading to you. I have never met you in person, but every time I meet someone, talk to someone, listen to someone, your name comes up. And I was like, Lynn twist. Lynn twist. Lynn twist. So, of course, I hit Lynn twist and Ted talk. That's my go to. And I saw this fascinating Ted talk and a fascinating life that you have. And first, I just want to say thank you. And I want to tell our listeners that you might want to have a pen and paper handy because that's what I feel when I hear you speak. I'm like, write it down. What did she say? You're one of those people who has so much beautiful wisdom, life-changing wisdom. Wisdom you don't hear other places. So anyway, welcome. And it's so nice to see you.


Oh, my goodness. Thank you. I can't believe you said all that stuff. Wow. Wonderful. I'm delighted, honored, and thrilled to be talking to you. So it's a match.


You have a beautiful book called Living a Committed Life. And just reading the title of it makes you nod your head and say, I want to have that. And I think, look, a lot of people have a job and their job pays the bills and it's hard work. And they come home and they're tired and they get to spend a little time with their families before they go to bed and wake up and do it all over again. And they find themselves on this merry-go-round and suddenly it's retirement day. Suddenly my back's now out and now I can't do X, Y and Z. And that's where their life has taken them. And having a committed life is a choice. And it's a choice you made early. I found that fascinating because I think it takes a lot of people, sometimes a lot of time because you think I'll have a committed life after I have my house, my car, my kids are in college, and then I'll figure out what I'm committed to. You didn't do it that way.


Well, I feel very fortunate that it's almost like it found me rather than I found it, although I try to help people find it as early as they can in their life. But I was lucky enough to get involved with the great Buckmanster Fuller when I was a young woman. I didn't really understand anything he was talking about, but I loved the way he was, the beingness, the love he had for what he called the intellectual integrity of the universe. I just loved Buckmanster Fuller, we called him Bucky at the time. When I first encountered him in live and in-person was with 2,000 other people in a huge auditorium. I had a realization, a revelation, you could say a transformation and transmutation that changed my life, which was the source of my book, The Soul of Money, and the source of years and years and years of really examining our relationship with money and how distorted it is so that we could be freed up from the money culture. But itknowledge is that a miracle was born, which is called The hunger Project. The hunger project is a commitment to end world hunger. I was in my 30s, and it swept me off my feet that I could be involved in something so gigantic, so life altering, so honorable, so a world changing as to end world hunger, not to only work on alleviating suffering, but really end it.


That gave me such a sense of the capacity to make a difference. Making a difference became a possibility early in my life. When I had little kids, it was inconvenient, but I grabbed it like a shining star and went with it.


That's the I find that fascinating. I happen to have two little kids, two, ones four and one six. But people have children and families and think my very first obligation is to make sure my kids and my family are okay. And if I'm traveling around saving the world, I'm not paying attention to my kids. So that decision for you was a clear one, one that you had with them. You had a conversation about it.


I did. But as I say, it shows me. So I reallyI don't know if it was a decision or I chose what swept over me that I couldn't ignore or resist. It was a calling. I call it a calling, and a calling is different than a choice. Well, you choose a calling, but it's different than a decision. Like, should I do this or should I do that? That's the decision. A calling is more like it grabs you, it takes you, and then you need to be true to it. My kids were three, five and seven, so I was just like, I can't do this. I can't end world hunger. I can't go to India, Ethiopia, places like that. I need to show up for snack day and go to parent-teacher conferences and drive kids to the soccer practice and stuff. But somehow I couldn't not do it. It was calling to who I was. So I sat down with them, I think you're referring to this, when I'd been involved for maybe a year, I was trying to do snack day and drive to soccer matches and show up in India for a conference or be in Ethiopia after the famine.


That's impossible. No matter where I was, I was always worried about the other place. I was never actually where I was when I was there. I sat down with them, and I remember sitting on the floor in our family room, my husband, Bill, my three kids, Zachary, Summer, and Billy. Billy was, I think, 10, Summer was and Zachary was six. I was crying and I was saying, I can't not work on ending world hunger. I want you all to just know that this is my calling. I'm doing it for you and for the world, the world in which you live. I'm going to miss some stuff. I know I've already missed some stuff, but if you would just bless this, this is really what I need to do. I'm doing it in honor of our lives and the lives that will follow us. My daughter, Summer, she's our comedian. From she was eight. She said, Mom, if you can end world hunger, we don't want you driving us to the orthodontist. Someone else can do that. We all burst into laughter. Then my youngest son, Zach, said, Mom, I take the coolest things to show and tell.


You brought those masks from Cote d'Ivoire from Africa. We put them up. Everybody's talking about it. Then my oldest son, I said, Mom, we have people staying in our house from Ethiopia. We had people being trained for the hunger project work from India, from Ghana, from Senegal. This is the coolest life. Other families, they go to Aspen for holidays, for spring break, we go to Micronesia. I mean, we're cool. Yeah, you are cool. My kids and my husband, Bill, just gave me total permission. After that, I knew that what I was doing was being true to them, true to myself and true to being an example of listening to a calling.


Well, you know what's interesting? In your book, Living a Committed Life, there's a chapter on, I don't know if it's called The Myth of Scarcity, but it's how we think everything's going away. It's like, I need to get extra toilet paper because we might not have it tomorrow. I need to make sure that we have a freezer full of X. Will you talk about that? Because I feel like we feel like, well, if I've got everything I need, then I can give Mary Smith something, but I can't give it to her unless I have plenty in my house so that we're safe for a long, long time.


Yeah. Well, I thank you for asking that, because that's really what I learned from Buckmanster-Fuller, and that became the central tenet of my life. That there is this mindset. It's an unconscious, unexamined mindset, unconscious and unexamined. A mindset or way of seeing the world that's part of the consumer culture, that's part of the culture of money, that's part of the culture in which we all live. It was here before you and I were born and be here probably after we're gone. And it's a mindset, an unconscious, unexamined belief in scarcity, and that is that there's not enough to go around and someone somewhere is always going to be left out. I'm calling it a lie or a condition of thinking that I really believe is inaccurate, unconscious, and makes us a little bit crazy. There's three toxic myths, I call them, in the mindset of scarcity, which is really a lens from which we look at life rather than something we determine. It's almost like we're looking through a lens of scarcity. There's not enough to go around and someone somewhere is going to be left out. More is better, and that's just the way that it is.


So we don't question it. The first toxic myth and the mindset of scarcity is there's not enough, number one. Then there's not enough. As I said, it's about there's not enough to go around and someone somewhere is going to be left out. I have to make sure it's not me and mine or the people that I'm responsible for or me and the people I consider to be my tribe, my people, my whatever. And that immediately creates an us and a them. And we look at the thems and we think, well, I'll help them later, the people who are left out because it's not enough to go around and somebody's going to be left out. But I have to get way more than I need for me and mine before I help them. And that's the source of excess and accumulation and taking way more than we need, a thinking that someday we'll help them and maybe someday we do. But even if we have to take things at their expense, we think it's responsible to take more than we need. And so that's myth number one, there's not enough. Myth number two is more is better.


More of anything and everything is better. More becomes an indiscriminate way of looking at life. More square feet in my house, more market share, more money, more black pants, more shoes, more this, more that, more, more, more, more. It's indiscriminate. Even multibillionaires think they need more. They need another plane, another boat, and now they need an island, et cetera. And more is better is reinforced by massive marketing and advertising that we all engage in and we all buy. The poster child for more is better is our waste problem, our climate crisis, and just think about the industry of storage. I mean, storage, what a weird thing. Why would we need storage? Why don't we just use the stuff we have and if we don't eat anymore, get rid of it? No, we have to store it because we think we're going to need it someday. Then the third toxic myth, so first being there's not enough, second, more is better. The third is that's just the way that it is and there's nothing you can do about it, so you need to buy in. That's the source of resignation. That's the source of apathy. That's the source of giving up.


That's the source of just being a slave to this mindset of scarcity. If you just clear that away for a moment, like when you see a little baby and a new baby wraps their little hand around your finger and you know this is a moment of absolute bliss and sufficiency or watching the sunrise or the sunset. We all have these moments in nature in our lives when we know that there's enough. There's enough for everyone, everywhere to have a healthy and productive life. Bucky Fuller really taught me that there's enough for everyone everywhere to have a healthy and productive life. The mindset of scarcity has us to live in a you or me paradigm. Either you make it at my expense or I make it at your expense because we think there's not enough for both of us. He said in 1978, we're now in a you and me world. There's enough for everyone where you and I can both make it at no one's expense. I can talk more about that in a minute, but that's a new world.


Well, by the way, I'm fascinated by that whole concept because it's everywhere. It's all around. I think what I loved, going back to your book, The Solve of Money, I think part of it is I loved how there's rich and poor. And I think most people would think if I get enough stuff, I'd be happy. And how could those rich people be so cranky? And why are they complaining? Every time someone rich says, Oh, this is bugging, everyone goes, Oh, give me a break. And someone who's poor, obviously, is like, when you do not have the things you need, that is what hell must be. But I think what I find so fascinating about you is you redefine both terms and they're not what you thought at all.


Well, I don't think there are any haves and have-nots. Working on hunger and poverty, you really learn that. The people who we sometimes think of as poor or have-nots are amazing people. They have to be so resourceful. They have to be. I worked in Africa for many years and subcontinent of India, and I learned that to call people poor is to diminish them and to demean them and those of us who would call them that. Because if you get to know them, you realize how they are so creative. They have to be. They're so innovative. They're super intelligent. They have to be. They may not know how to read or write because they hadn't been given that opportunity, but that doesn't mean they're not intelligent. What's poor is their resources, not them. They're whole and complete people living in the ebb and flow and sometimes crushing reality of resource-poor circumstances, oppression, war, economic deprivation. But they are strong. In fact, they're some of the most remarkable people on this planet, frankly. We take workshops and go to podcasts like this one to get the strength that they have in daily life. Especially women, I'll just say the women in Africa that I come to know and love, they're just awesome, awesome, awesome human beings.


Then to call people rich is also to demean them because they're just whole and complete people dealing with the challenges of life and the ebb and the flaw of resources. But they start, if we call them rich and treat them as rich, they start thinking they are their trust fund, they are their salary, they are their stock price. Then if it goes up or down, their whole survival is threatened. We aren't our resources. We are or our circumstances. We're whole and complete people. There's not haves and have nots. The people living in resource-poor circumstances have a strength, a resilience, a creativity, and innovation that we long for. We may have resources and connections, but together we can make a miracle. And with co-equal partnership, we can heal the world.


God, that is so beautiful. Do you think you talk about you want to end world hunger, yet we probably know in our lifetimes that won't happen? I mean, what's it like to take on something, Lynn, that's so big that you know you will not see to fruition?


Well, I actually think that's a gift because number one, if you think of your own life as a gift that you are given, then it's your opportunity or maybe your responsibility to give it. Rather than to live a lifestyle like me, we all have this thing that success is a lifestyle like you thatthat where you can take credit for things and become wealthy and famous and successful in all the ways that our society defines it. But if you take on a purpose larger than your own life, larger than your own life, starring you, something you can never take credit for. It humbles you, it enobles your life, it gives you a deep and profound meaning, and you are a contribution. You aren't trying tolet's say, you're not trying to meet a goal or take credit or put stuff on the scoreboard. You're actually living in the possibility of something like ending world hunger, for example. I have a commitment, a life commitment to bring forth an environmentally-sustainable, spiritually-fulfilling, socially-just human presence on this planet. I'm not going to be able to check that off like a to-do, but it's a way to live my life.


And when I live consistent with that new dream for humanity, I make choices that become consistent with that future. And it gives you a life of meaning, of purpose, and you start becoming the person you need to be to fulfill it. It's like the commitment reaches back into your life and makes you into the person you need to be to fulfill that commitment, rather than you have to be the person who can fulfill it first and then you commit and then you can do it. No, it's the other way around. It's just amazing. How do- It lights you up.


Yes, I could tell, man. You're effervescent, I have to say. So how do you if you have not had the moment like you had in your 30s where it hit you like a lightning bolt? That's my purpose. I know there are people listening right now who are saying to themselves, I'd like to find, I want what she's having, but my lightning bolt hasn't hit me. Can you go find it or does it have to come to you? How do you suggest people find the purpose?


Well, I would say listening to podcast like yours, listening to people like you. But really what I invite people to do is I have them really, and I invite people to do this now, to look and see when you look out in the world, the big world, the whole thing, all of humanity, the community of life, the Earth, all of it. What really truly breaks your heart? What really breaks your heart? And maybe many, many things, obviously, there's so much to this heartbreaking now, but what is one of the primary, most deep things that breaks your heart? When you really tap into that, it might be that a child would have no one who stands for them, or the cruelty to the community of life, or the breakdown of our living systems, or what really breaks your heart, something big. Then what makes your heart sing? What really makes your heart sing? Not just what gives you a little bit of fun now and then, but what when it happens or when you're doing it, when you're being it, what makes your heart sing? Often what breaks your heart and what makes your heart sing defines who you really are, why you're here on this planet, what you came to do, who you came to be.


I say, because we're living at such an epic time, I mean, this is the decisive decade. Many would say that. I say it. Here we are, 2023 going in 2024. This is a decisive time, 2020, 2030, for the environment, for all kinds of things. If you're on this planet now, I say you have a role to play. It may not be a big role or small role. It's just your role or you wouldn't be here. That's what I think. If you think of things that way and you listen for the signs. When you were a little girl in the playground or a little boy in the playground, did you defend against the bullies? Maybe you're a justice person. Maybe you want justice for every single person. Or you're the person who chose the person first for kickball that was the least able to kick the ball. Maybe you're all about including people who feel left out. Are you the person who was marveling at the beauty of a tree? When you were three or four years old, you just loved it more than you loved anything. Maybe you're a person who stands for giving people access to beauty.


You can see in your childhood of your heroes and heroines, you can see there's often a through line in your life that leads you to, it's my big commitment. What do I really stand for? What am I here for? And if you start listening and looking for those signs, that calling will start to call to you. That's what I recommend.


God, that's beautiful. Because people still have to pay their bills, like their rent and their food. I think you want to chase that. Annoying. You want to chase that purpose. But I think sometimes people to revert to the more practical side, which is that sounds all well and good, and I'd love to do all that stuff. But quite frankly, my rent comes due at the first of the month, and I got to be ready. And if I pull up stakes from where I am and try to find that big, lofty, beautiful thing, maybe I won't be able to take care of my needs.


Well, that's a bit of a challenge and a bit of an irritation. I experienced that myself. At the same time, I think we all know people and have experiences where we know that it's possible no matter who you are and no matter where you are, no matter what your economic or financial circumstances to live a life of meaning and purpose and to incorporate the livelihoodness, how to earn your way into the hearts and minds of people everywhere and earn your way into a sufficient life financially and put those things together as well as you can. Sometimes it takes you got to do this a little bit before you do that. Sometimes there's a first we have to, and sometimes there's not. If the context of your life is large enough, the content will align. Context is decisive. Context gives content meaning. I'm remembering a man who used to drive a bus. When my husband went to business school in Chicago when we were young and still in school, and he always used to get to the corner where he took the bus to his business school classes to get this bus driver named Joe. Because Joe, when people got on Joe's bus, he greeted them, Bill, my husband, Bill, how's it going today?


I know it's raining outside, but it's cozy in this bus. You sit down here right next to me. I'd like to hear how things are going for you while I'm driving. And this guy is a bus driver. But being a beautiful African-American man, he wanted people on his bus to be happy and welcomed and warm. And that was his mission in life, love, love every single person to make them feel wanted, seen, included and heard. And sometimes people were grumpy and they didn't like Joe talking to them, but he made it good for them, too. So you could be a waitress, you could be a bus driver, you can be ending Worldwide. You could be ending World Honor, you could be Avatma Gandhi, you can be anything you want, and you can make it into something that serves the long-term future of life and gives people and yourself a purpose larger than your lifestyle and you.


Coming up, Lynn shares the lessons she learned from Mother Teresa. That's after the break.


Hey there. I'm Maya Schunker, and I'm a scientist.


Who studies.


Human behavior. Many of us have experienced a moment in our lives that changes everything. A moment that instantly divides our life into a before and an after. On my podcast, A Slightly Change of Plans, I talk to people about how they've navigated exactly these moments, because as we all know, the only constant is change. So let's make the most of it. Listen to a slight change of plans on the iHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.


Hey, everybody. It's Hoda Coughlin. And Jen and Bush Hager. And we got big news, you all. Our show is now a podcast.


That's right. You can take us anywhere you go, in your car, to the gym, even just at home on your own couch with a glass of wine.


We like spending time with each other. And now we love that we can spend even more time with you. Are you sick of us yet?


Don't be, because you can never have to miss a.


Moment of fun, laughs, or friendship. Subscribe. Listen to today with Hoda and Jenna, where we get to podcast. You worked alongside Mother Teresa, which is just another dream. And when you think of the Mother Teresas and the Mahatma Gandhi's and the Martin Luther Kings and all these people, you imagine them only on the world stage. That's how I see them. And when I was reading, I was like, Lynn was side by side with Mother Teresa. First of all, they didn't all start off big, obviously. They just started off doing good things. But what did you learn from Mother Teresa? What did she teach you?


Oh, my God. I just started to cry there, but she taught me humility. You can see Christ in every face. I had an encounter with some very rude and ungrateful people who were meeting with her, who broke into a meeting that I was having with her. She treated them with such respect and they were so rude to her. Imagine being rude to Mother Teresa. I was so angry with these people. But when they left, I realized that my blood was boiling and she was fine with these people. I wrote to her afterwards, and she told me you can see Christ in every face, even in the entitled, the rude, the wealthy, the overbearing, the domineering. Christ is inside of every face, or a love is in every face. She said this one cool thing, and it's quoted from time to time, but I heard her say it, and I remember thinking, Oh, my God. She said, The unadultrated love of one person can nullify the hatred of millions. This quote, I'll just say it again. The unadultrated love of one person can nullify the hatred of millions. I can't prove that. There's not a lot of evidence for that, but that's a way to live, and that's the way she lived.


She was an awesome example. Wow. At the core, love is at the core. Love is God. Love is the universe. Love is who we are at our core. Wow.


Common ground is something that seems, I don't know, not as prevalent as it used to be. Having conversations, getting people together because, just finding the things that we share seems like it's such a far-fetched. We just had the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade not too long ago, and it was the highest rated they've had in forever. And the reason being, I think, is because it's something everyone agrees on. Oh, my gosh, it's a parade. There's not you and me or them and us. This is just what we do. And I'm just looking for more of those things that seem to bring everyone together to.


The table. There's enough for everyone everywhere to have a healthy and productive life. This you or me paradigm is still reigning supreme, but it's in its death throes, actually. That's why it's so intense, I think. I think one of the most powerful things that people are doing now, and this podcast and your work is part of it, is reaching across to each other, connecting, belonging, realizing it's not left, it's not right. Let's not go left. Let's not go right. Let's go deep. Let's go deep. We are aligned. We may not agree, that's up here. But when we go deep, we're aligned. We want the world to work for everyone with no one and nothing left out. We want human life to flourish with the community of life, our kin on this planet, the other animals and plants. We want the end of not just all these other supremacies that we talk about. We want the end of human supremacy. We want human beings to tone it down and to participate with everybody else here. We all want the same thing deep down underneath. When we reach across, get in conversation, collaborate, that's co-labor, work together.


We will create institutions, new economic systems that are circular, that recycle everything, not just they things, but are the economic systems where no one's left out. We can do that. We have that intelligence now, and we have so many tools. After the.


Break, Lynn shares the way of thinking that can redirect your life, tackling self-doubt and fear, and how gratitude can be transformational. Stay with us.


Hi there. It's Kelly Rippa, and I have a new.


Podcast called Let's.


Talk Off Camera. You might know me from your TV, but now we're turning the cameras off and getting real. Uncensored, unfiltered, and maybe a little unhinged with cebes, experts, friends, and more. Trust me, you won't want to miss a single episode. No lights, no camera, all action. Listen to Let's Talk Off-camera with Kelly Rippa wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm June Diane, Rayfeel, and I'm Jessica St. Clair. And we would like to invite you on a hilarious and heartfelt journey each week on The Deep Dive. From navigating the chaos of motherhood and family to exploring the depths of grief and loss, we are just two best friends who process life together and with you guys. Discover our secrets to finding joy amidst the madness and get ready for unfiltered conversations about life, love, and everything in between. And nails, we talk a lot about nails. Now, community is everything to us at The Deep Dive. We believe in the power of connection and the strength that comes from supporting one another. And we would love to have you with us. So be sure to join us every Wednesday on The Deep Dive from Lemonata Media, wherever you get your podcasts.


You said something that I loved for everybody who's walking around in their own private, Idaho with their own problems and their own things. And you talked about how when you're younger, sometimes you're given a life sentence. And I love this phrasing because it's like a line. Somebody says to you and you carry it your whole life. And it's a burden because someone has tagged you or described you. And now you're like, I guess that's me. I'm the this one or the that one. Will you just talk about that? I find that fascinating. And also how do you get rid of.


That thing? The life sentence being like a life sentence, like a prison that's in your mind. And it might have been that someone told you you're never amount to anything. And that got stuck in your mind, and that gets repeated like riverlets in the snow and you're doing cross country skiing. And every time you think you don't amount to anything, you don't amount to anything. You're never amount to anything. It gets deeper and deeper and it becomes a life sentence, a prison in the way you think. But you can free yourself from your life sentences. When you start to listen to a life sentence that you'll never measure up to your mother or God, it must be tough being blank or this or that. That if it's a negative life sentence, you can replace it with an affirmation. You can say, really, it sounds so simple, it must not possibly work, but it does. You can say cancel. You can say if you have these doubts about yourself, and we all do, and I'm going to do a terrible interview with Hoda, I won't be ready. I say, Cancel, cancel. I am so ready. I've lived a life.


I earned the right to talk to her today. I'm going to do the best interview I've ever done on the soul of money, on living a committed life, on anything she asks me. I'm so excited. Your brain will obey. It will obey. But you have to say cancel out loud or in your mind. And it's really incredible how simple but not easy it is to redirect the trajectory of your own life. Every single moment we have the opportunity to transform our lives and to live in the deep and profound gratitude for just being alive at such an remarkable time where you can make this a difference and know that not only can you, but I think there's a demand, a request, an invitation, maybe even a responsibility to realize that if you're alive now, as I said before, you have a role to play and play with all your heart. And don't let those doubts and fears and those life sentences free yourself of those prisons and replace them with the affirmations that give you the access to the life you've always dreamed of and to make the difference that you're here to make. It's a responsibility to get rid of those life sentences.


It's not just life would be easier and better and more fun. No, don't allow that saying, No, not for me. I have so much to do. I have such a difference to make, get out of here, those ideas. They're not valid. That's not who I am. Who I am is somebody who's here to really matter.


Do you ever lose your mojo? Do you ever have days where you're like, you know what? Every interview I've watched, every interaction you've had, I just see electricity because... And that's why it's so clear it's your calling. But sometimes we all try and we have stumbles along the way. How do you get yourself out of a bunk when you get in one? And just what's the best way to do that?


Well, I have those days, and I do them really full out. Sometimes when I'm having a downer and I have them, I mean, my God, I'm human being too. I realize I just need to give myself a break here and let myself complain and moan and say terrible things. I have colleagues and friends, we probably all do, and methodologies where I say... I have my business partner, my work wife, I call her, Sarah Vetter. I say to her, Sarah, I want to do a spring cleaning. This comes from a woman named Mama Gina, who does incredible work. I want to do a spring cleaning. A spring cleaning is something where she's just there and she listens to me complain and complain and complain. She doesn't agree with me. She doesn't validate it. She doesn't argue with. She does try to change my mind. She just says, Thank you. What else? I said, Well, I just hate this. I can't get on Google Docs and something's wrong with my computer. I'm so mad at my husband because he didn't… Then she says, Thank you. And what else?


I love this.


Then you complete with, What are you grateful for? When you're done with the download, What are you grateful for? Well, I'm so grateful for this conversation because I feel so much better now. I'm so grateful to be alive. Actually, I have such awesome health for my age. I can't even believe it. Actually, the day, it's so sunny. Holy moly, I forgot my grandchildren. I'm going to spend time with them this weekend. Pretty soon, I'm so moved, I'm crying, and I'm inspired again. Everybody can get themselves out of a punk. I also love, love, love as we all do nature. I can go sit. I live near… I live in California, Northern California, and I live near what's called the Presidio. There's a forest not far from my home, and there's a redwood grove. If I go to that redwood grove and I look at those trees, I mean, I just think about them, these magnificent trees, they're just gigantic. They're strong. They're resilient. They've been there for thousands of years. I realize the privilege it is to be alive at a time when I can be in communion with that a being. It all comes back to me and I can be inspired again.


I also consider myself someone whose job in life, and I think you're like this too, is to inspire people. I know that I need to clear myself so that I can be back on duty. When I'm back on duty, I'm inspired by literally everything I look at. Gratitude is a tonic. Gratitude is transformational. Gratitude can always take you from where you are to where you want to be. Those are some of the things that I do.


This all makes so much sense to me. I just want to say thank you. But before we say goodbye, Lynn, we do call this podcast Making Space because I feel like everyone should make space for themselves, time where they can recharge and recalibrate, where they don't have to be on the giving end. So if you had a blank slate day, no kids, no grandkids, no speeches, no podcasts. It was your day. How would you make space for yourself on that day? How would you spend it?


Oh, gosh, what a great question. I'm happy with that. Well, I would walk on the beach. I live near the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco and Beautiful Beaches in Northern California. I would spend time in the forest, the beautiful forest that we have in Northern California. I would spend time with my... I would hike with my grandchildren because there's nothing more wonderful than being with grandchildren, particularly my grandchildren. They're so precious. I would spend time with my beloved husband, Bill Twist, who I've been married to for 57 years. I would get a massage. I love massage. I would meditate. I would pray. I would lay on the Earth and cry with joy because it's such a gift to be alive right now when both life is both in danger and we have the opportunity to turn the tide like no generation that's ever lived. I would live that day in gratefulness or great fullness, which is noticing absolutely everything of beauty around me and bowing to it, acknowledging it, and honoring it. So that's what I would do.


Lynn, I had such high expectations for this interview, and it totally eclipsed it as I knew it would. Lynn, thank you so much.


Thank you. This has been an absolute joy. I'm deeply grateful and keep it up.


I will. I will.


Thank you, Lynn.


Hey, guys, thank you so much for listening and for coming on this journey with me. If you like what you heard and I hope that you do, please give Making Space a five-star rating and review on Apple podcasts. Make sure you tell your friends. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening right now. Making Space with Hoda Khabi is produced by Allison Berger and Alexa Kasebeka, along with Kate Saunders and our production assistant is Megan Cilio. Our Associate Audio Engineer is Juliana Mastarili. Our audio engineers are Bob Mallory and Katherine Anderson. Original music by John Estes. Bryce and Barnes is our head of audio production. Missy Dunlock-Parsons is our executive producer. Sharise Williams-Laredo is our senior producer.


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