Hi, guys, I'm Katie Lowes, actress, mom and host of the parenting podcast. Chrin, a show that helps women navigate the colossal changes that come with motherhood. You'll hear from resilient mammas knowledgeable experts and me asking a whole lot of questions. It's real talk that offers real perspective on what it's really like to be a parent. New episodes publish every other Thursday. Listen to Katie's crib on I heart radio app or on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Alex Aono and I have a new podcast. Let's get into it. It's all about tackling the stuff you and I want to know. Each week I'm joined by a friend and a WisdomTree, and we discuss everything you want to know about money, love your relationships, even fitness and mental health. I love having deep conversations with my friends. And now it's your turn to get in on it.
Listen to Alex Ioana. Let's get into it on the I Heart radio app. Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.
From my heart media, this is missing in Alaska. The story of two congressmen who vanished in 1972 and my quest to figure out what happened to them. I'm your host, John Walsh, back at the end of every episode.
I assigned what some lovingly call homework ways. You can help move this story forward. And guess what you have I've heard from so many of you, and I really appreciate your help in episode two. I asked you to help me find the ham radio operators who heard a mysterious transmission that allegedly came from the baggage Boggs plane the day it disappeared. I knew that two of the ham operators were dead, but I wasn't sure about the other four. Then I started to hear from you, our listeners.
One person who e-mailed us was an shepherd of Abingdon, Maryland, and did some sleuthing and figured out that one of the hams, Ronald Crawford, was actually Donald Crawford. Newspapers misreported his name in 1972. Thanks to an hour, assistant producer Chris Brown was able to speak with Don's son, Bane, who clearly remembers the incident. He said his father heard the alleged pilots say the plane was, quote, sliding after and leads continued to flow in, including one from Wyoming where a couple heard my call for help.
They told me they knew a man named Joe Tatum. He lived in an assisted living facility. He might be the Joe Tatum, one of the hams who heard the mystery transmission. They called him. Turns out he is the Joe Tatum, the last person alive who heard the transmission made.
They find the plane, huh? Tatum is 83. He lives in Evanston, Wyoming. Can you tell me, what did you hear? I heard a play, a part in a plane for now. And what did he what did he say? Do you remember what he said? Hey, hey, pass me Irene in 30 miles southwest of Juneau, Alaska. May I made a map and had everything backwards. Cause I did not know that. Is there anything about Alaska?
I just picked it up on the radio on. When Ferreyra. And did you actually speak with him or did you just hear the transmission of the transmission? But you didn't have a chance to directly speak with him. No, I didn't dies somewhere a hundred and thirty miles from Juneau, Alaska, in air. And did he say anything else of his? Did he say the plane was in distress? Yes, he said it. Is it a player in distress?
He said he was parked out and 30 miles southwest of Juneau. And that they wind down and it hit the rocks. He had three casualties. And they they said the plane was slippery. That's all I heard. Ten. We lost. Do you remember about how long you heard these transmissions for, was it a few minutes? Was it was it several times over the course of an hour?
It was probably about five minutes all total time here. And I'm trying to talk to him. And the plane going down.
So you heard him while he was in the air and then you say after he crashed. He evidently after a crash, because we heard I heard him being here first in a month, he said he was probably 130 miles southwest A. And the next the next thing I knew, he said the planet, they had hit rocks. And he was had three casualties and. That's all we can say. Did you get a name? No. He he said to me a true ID pashing version.
He had three casualties. Day. No name. No name. Nothing like that. How we all I heard was just stress on the radio. Did you hear any tail number? No. And so I found your name in an old newspaper article. And as far as I can tell, there were, I think, four to five other men who heard this transmission. Do you mind if I pass their names by you and you tell me if you remember any of them?
Yes. Go ahead. Al Miller. If you find that plane had a note. Absolutely, sir. Yes. Al Miller.
I'm not Mayor Victor Parker. Roy Harris. I see most these guys on the radio. Then was all under false pretense, saying, hey, give their regular name. We didn't know who was who until we most of us may about a plane. When you say under false pretense, you mean just because people didn't have official licenses? Yes. Well, I wasn't Decru ham operator. I had my had a CB radio strapped down to where I could talk to just about anybody I want to do.
So when you picked up this transmission, did you pick it up on a ham radio or on a CB radio? I could get from my ham receiver and most of it was heard on TV radio. Gotcha. So just to be clear, you picked it up on on a ham receiver, though. Yes. And then so you obviously know more about radio than me, but you picked it up on the ham and a CB radio or just on the ham.
He had a deal. I had it on both. And the thing about it is, hey, most ahead Channel nine and Ray, you in that plane because we had it, we heard in plain clear. And so do you remember any other details about what he said? I've slept in. And so you said that you made a map. Was that just you pulled out a map of Alaska and you and you were look at all. I didn't go on a map of Alaska.
I sat down and drag me a piece of paper or a piece of paper. A hurry was moment or he was going. And I had it backwards because I didn't know that Junon was on a Lorean and. Not governor. Where he was at. I took it all back for Jarrah's kind of dumbfounded over that stupid job, Drooler learned that the journal was way down here the next hour. Yeah. Station Alaska was a happier day, was further north here.
His journals pretty low. You're right. I think, you know, most people, unless you look at a map, I think Alaska and what you think of is the northern part and Juneau's, you know, all the way further down. But so so, you know, you said that he he mentioned being that you say 120 or 130 miles southwest of Juneau. I hear him say POCs me out and 30 miles. Hundred and thirty. Just to be clear.
Yes. And did he give any way after. I'm sorry. After I got up there and then realized I was stupid, that dividend was backwards, I realized that he was he was at war, I thought he was because John met backwards. They took the middle a map that drug their forces got it somewhere up there. And so the map that you drew.
Did he give you any other directions or indication other than just saying he was one hundred and thirty miles southwest of Juneau?
No, he didn't have much time to give us anything. What it is. What did you what did he sound like? What was his purpose? Did he sound upset? Was he angry? He needed help. He needed help because you could tell his voice and everything that he was in trouble. How we lost him. Do you remember the last thing that you heard from him? I think when he said a hundred and thirty miles southwest of Juneau, Alaska.
And so after you heard this transmission, who did you contact? What happened afterward? H e rocks and the plane was slipping. He had to crash these. And did you call the police or who did you contact? Were calm or can be or I think or worse, they are based. And they said they had their door ready. And the next morning, they had us meet at the airbase and get on a plane and fly like hankered.
What was that experience like? This is a plane ride I've never had. And they did go in the seats on that big plane. They sold all the seats out of it. I did, Deb, and made room for us to get in. It was a fuel jet. So they used. And you said the other the other men that flew up with you to Alaska. Did you know any of them or were they all new to you?
I think Trump works, I think is to more with this, and I knew I knew of him because I had talked to him several times and when I went out when I went by Channel Nine picked up, he does last little part of what was going on. Sure. Parks. Is going to war. I went to first, and I think Don Crawford out of Mary Jo is one of the boys. Yeah. And Don is type of person, you better be right, because you don't want to much bullshit.
He was. He was. He was John Radio. He he picked it up from Channel Nine and he offered me one that already went by channel line. It first picked it up. And then I was trying to get her murder her how we. You can only hear so much. All right, you and the guy dated Degauque. And I still think he's between Juno and. Catch it again or somewhere down there. And so when you went to Alaska, did they.
Were they just asking you a million questions or what was that process like in Alaska? We said great. Now, I was looking at pictures taken already with the plans. If we recognize anything. Wait, wait. Dave, how do you look at pictures of of what? Was we just went into an office type room and sat down and started looking step. What were the pictures of? Most of it was shot from an airplane. Gay marriage, yes.
Yes. My nerves can locate somebody, so they they had you The View and the other ham operators looking over photos that they had taken to see if you could spot the wreck.
That seems kind of seems kind of odd. Do you have any idea why they would ask you guys to do that in particular? Well, they were trying to get she who recommended hinting that we might have seen her there and their pictures. And the thing about it is they. They took a lot of pictures and did find out. I think another plane may have been lost. Server poor up there in the ice. But I don't know exactly what time it was the day to day.
Did you get another plane? Wouldn't the one we were looking for?
And you mentioned you mentioned Don Crawford, who was the first person that you mentioned. Schwab prox was handled smallpox fox. Do you remember his name? No, I don't. Solutions. And do you by any chance, do you have a diary or any records from 1972? No, I haven't. I had family problems in the divorce and be married. Everything else, my. I have and I've got a radio upstairs, magic at my work desk blown out of it.
And when you heard this transmission, where in California, what city were you living in? I was living in Butte City, just kind of Oroville, California. I had an antenna that I built and I talked all over the world with. So after they talked that the Air Force interviewed you guys. What the what Major Stocker, who was leading the search command, said was that he they all believed the ham operators, that you guys were telling the truth, but they thought that the transmission was likely a hoax.
What do you think about that? Well, they did a decade telling me they died. That day was a hoax. He wasn't right. But thing about it is there was too many of us heard it. And no one was not connected. There was a little man there, which is I think he lived in now I've heard or somewhere of Europe. And he took an oath. He swore off and down that we wish to try to put a hoax.
And then after he heard what went on there, he will know more about it, too. Oh, how? I've still got I've still got part of that radio upstairs and magic. Oh, really? So I could really if I could if I could record it backwards. I sure would for you. So you still have part of the radio receiver that you used when he received the transmission? Oh, I talk from California to South Korea. I talk to ships off the coast of Alaska.
I talk to ships and boats. That is a bizarre thing. I think out from Korea, I was curious. And use Bonneau to attack the ship here years ago. I. If it's a hoax, I want to know why we're here and why. Because what I heard was somebody in stress, Warner Delp. Well, the tower, the radio tower that you built, do you remember how tall it was or any details about a mega antenna used?
Yes, sir. Top obviously, to create probably a hundred feet for an air. And I apologized, asked this again. But when you first picked up the plane transmission, that was via the ham receiver. Yeah. It was only in machine receiver play a show on Channel Nine, which you say Bikaner. Interesting. OK. I had a habit may attack a lot. She appears at the habit everytime we say to change channel, to go by cattle line.
Wait a few minutes, see if there was anybody. One help. Maybe somebody run out of gas. Maybe so mad. A flat tire. I could I could pick that up on radio. I went, I won't buy Channel Nine. I think I probably go on for 24 hours or one of our hotels. I went by Channel nine and I heard this. It was he was in stress. He was out and 30 miles southwest of Alaska.
Juneau. And he needed help and I thought, you know, was way upon the other end of Alaska. And now the wrong. Have you ever been interviewed by a journalist before about this? No. So almost 50 years later, this is the very first time you've ever been interviewed about this. I've got a phone call here about a week ago. I wouldn't know if I was a joke that he was talking about number radio.
You know, one of the things since we're airing the show is that we were asking people for help. And I had one listener who helped me figure out that it was Donald. Not Ronald. So Don Crawford. And then another listener who found you and which is which is amazing because I've been looking for the longest time to try to speak to anybody. And like I said it, you're you're the very last ham who's still alive. So it's been a few if you get a call from a rancher.
Yeah. The guy I work for is some is one that called me. I want to know if I was the one he was talking about. Huh. And told me I said I was there looking for that thing. I swear to God if they're valid. Well, how and what an experience. I'm really happy that I found you. I like I said, you're the last one who is alive. And as far as I could tell, nobody ever recorded an interview with any of the others and nobody recorded an interview with you.
So it's a little little piece of history. I'm glad I had a chance to talk with you. Is there anything else that you remember or any questions that you want to ask me if you find out something I want to know?
Yes, sir. I will call you eye to eye. I kind of thought no, maybe they found something. Well, I'm on a I'm looking forward to. A kid called me, wanted to know if I was the one from Alaska. They were looking for. Well, cool. OK. I appreciate it.
I know I know where you are right now. Thank you.
Bye bye bye. You can reach us by phone at one eight three three MBA tips. That's one eight three three six four two eight four seven seven again, one eight three three six four two, eight, four, seven seven. Or you can reach us via email at tips at eye heart media dot com. That's tips t ip s at eye heart media dot com. Ben Bolen is our executive producer. Paul Decken as our supervising producer.
Chris Brown is our assistant producer. Seth, Nicholas Johnson is our producer. Sam Teagarden is our research assistant.
And I'm your host and executive producer, John Wall. Zach. You can find me on Twitter at at John Wall, Zach J. O and WAFL C. Z a k. Special thanks to an Shepard and Joe Tatum. Thank you. Also to the couple in Wyoming who connected me with Joe. They declined to be named on the show. Missing in Alaska is a co-production of IPART Media and Green Fought Media. I'm Alex Aono and I have a new podcast.
Let's get into it is all about tackling the stuff you and I want to know. Each week I'm joined by a friend and a wisdom tree, and we discuss everything you want to know about money, love your relationships, even fitness and mental health. I love having deep conversations with my friends. And now it's your turn to get in on it.
Listen to Alex Iona. Let's get into it on the I Heart radio app. Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.
Hi, guys. Katie Loews here. Actress, mom and host of the parenting podcast Katie's Crib, a show that helps women navigate the colossal changes that come with motherhood. You'll hear from resilient moms, knowledgeable experts and me asking a whole lot of questions. It's real talk that offers real perspective on what it's really like to be a parent. So join me. New episodes publish every other Thursday. Listen to Katie's crib on the I Heart radio app or an Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.