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[00:00:00]

Made by Women is a new show brought to you by the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio. We bring you inspiring stories and shared learnings to help you successfully navigate today's environment, benefit from the experiences of legendary entrepreneurs as well as everyday women in business who have found success their own way.

[00:00:18]

Consider your real world MBA design for the new Now. I'm Kim Azorella and you can listen to Made by Women on the I Heart radio app Apple podcasts. Rubby, listen to your favorite shows.

[00:00:30]

Hi, this is Leah Remini and I am joined by Mike Rinder. And we are so excited to continue our journey with a new podcast called Scientology Fair Game. Like When Can People Hear It?

[00:00:42]

The first episode is airing on 21 July Leha and then weekly thereafter. OK. And for those who are not hoity toity, that's July 21st. Thank you. Listen to Scientology Fair Game on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[00:01:01]

I'm floating in water. Naked salt burns my eyes, but it doesn't matter. They're of no use. Everything is black. I hold my hand an inch from my face, but I can't see my fingers. Total silence. I'm in an isolation tank. Picture a big horizontal egg half filled with water. You climb in, pull down the hatch, seal yourself in and float. The idea is to eliminate sensory overload, relieve anxiety, boost creativity, focus, or conversely, go blank.

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I don't send out, though. I think about this story about how the missing man likely crashed into water and drowned, about the violence of nature and the brutality of loss. About my burning eyes. My heart media, this is missing in Alaska. The story of two congressmen who vanished in 1972 and my quest to figure out what happened to them. I'm your host, John Walsh. Full disclosure. This was supposed to be our final episode, but we're getting so many new leads that we'll likely be back in the future with updates.

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For now, though, let me examine 16 critical questions about the disappearance and give you some unexpected answers. You'll hear back and forth between me and Paul Deckert, our supervising producer. One, is it really so bizarre for a small plane to disappear in Alaska and never be found?

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Yes, of course planes do vanish in Alaska without a trace. But it's not the norm. In 1972, Air Force Major Henry Stocker, the search commander, told reporters, quote, Ninety five to ninety nine percent of what we were looking for. We locate of the previous twelve hundred planes to disappear. One official said only three had never been found. An Air Force document I obtained says, quote, Had the aircraft or its occupants have been able to send an electronic signal, the probability of detection of this signal was ninety nine percent.

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Their probability of detection of fires, a word other visual signals from survivors was ninety nine percent. Their probability of detection of the aircraft, if intact in the search area was in excess of 97 percent. The probability of locating aircraft wreckage or survivors without fires or signaling devices was in excess of ninety five percent in all search areas and in excess of ninety nine percent and the highest probability area, end quote. So according to the Air Force, there was a ninety nine percent chance of finding wreckage in the highest probability search area.

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But still nothing. No debris, no oil slick, nothing from the plane. And even when planes do disappear, they're often located years or decades later. Take the case of clearance road. A U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service official who vanished on a small plane in Alaska in 1958 despite one hundred and forty seven thousand square mile search. His plane was never found either until 1979, when hikers stumbled upon it in a remote part of the Brooks range, high above the Arctic Circle.

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To where did the plane crash? Probably into Prince William Sound. Somewhere between Portage Pass and Hinchinbrook Island. The last time anyone heard from the plane was right before it entered the pass. But searchers found no wreckage in the pass, nor has any sign of its surface there in the last 50 years. We also have a critical clue. Around nine thirty a.m. on the morning of October 16th, 1972, at least one to three people described in various accounts as a dockworker, construction worker and or fishermen heard a small plane fly over Whittier.

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The only plane in the vicinity of Whittier at that time was the baggage Boggs plane. So it seems that the missing plane did make it through Portage Pass over Whittier and onto Prince William Sound. At that point, it would have been about 75 miles from Johnstone Point on the northern tip of Hinchinbrook Island at John Stone. There was a radio relay that would have allowed the pilot, Don Jons, to speak with a flight service specialist in Anchorage. But Don never radioed in after crossing through Portage Pass.

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Why?

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There are a few possible explanations. Don's radio broke at that very moment right after he crossed through Portage Pass, but before he was within range of Johnstone verdict.

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Possible, but very unlikely, since Don wasn't required to make contact at John. He chose not to. So he actually made it past Hinchinbrook without checking in. But Don was known radio in three to four times when flying between Anchorage and Juneau. And he probably would have wanted to check in to see if there were any new weather updates. Verdict possible, but unlikely. Don crashed right after he got through Portage Pass.

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But before he was within range of Johnstone, this would have had to occur during a narrow window of time, though, say five to 15 minutes, because once he got through the pass, he would have been within range of the radio relay pretty quickly. Verdict possible, but less likely.

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Don had a sudden emergency while he was within range of Johnstone and then crashed in this case. Even if he could radio in, he would have been preoccupied with saving the plane verdict possible.

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On this note, there's also a chance Don was within range of John Stone, but too low to make contact. Maybe there was an emergency and he wanted to call in, but he couldn't. His radio was line of sight. So terrain like mountains could have blocked a transmission verdict possible. Some people speculate that Dawn did not cross through Portage Pass. They think he took an alternate route without notifying the authorities. Maybe he followed a rail line down to Seward.

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Crossed over water and then disappeared. But this doesn't take into account witness reports of a plane crossing over woodier that morning verdict possible, but very unlikely.

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So to recap, based on available evidence, it's still most likely that the plane crashed somewhere between Portage Pass and Hinchinbrook Island, probably into Prince William Sound. Three was the Cessna tail Bob Martinsen found around 1980 in Port Etchells, right off Hinchinbrook Island, part of the baggage Boggs plane.

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Maybe the coloration, size and tail number all apparently match. So does the location. Poor duchesses. Only about 10 miles south of V three one seven. The route, Don Jon's plan to take on October 16th, 1972. That day, if Don flew low under a cloud ceiling, he would have had to circle around Hinchinbrook, not over it, by heading north or south. If he flew south trying to circle around the island and if he had an emergency, he would have likely turned east into Port Etches instead of heading out over open ocean.

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Once the Port Duchesse, he likely would have tried to cross through a low pass of about a thousand feet and then attempted to land either somewhere on Hinchinbrook or in Cordova. For what happened to the tailpiece, Bob found, Bob is fuzzy on whether he, his father and only Rizza, their fishing partner, left the tail in the water. If they brought it back to Cordova or if they sent it back on a tender, a type of supply boat.

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Bob thinks they sent it back to Cordova on a tender. Five, if it made it back to Cordova, to the Alaska state troopers, what happened then? Where is it? Honestly, I have no idea. I tried to track down troopers who were stationed in Cordova around 1980 to ask them, because even if they determined that it belonged to a different plane, that's not the type of thing you forget. There should be documentation of which plane it belonged to.

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Unfortunately, the only troopers I could find have died.

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Six. What happened to the plane? On October 16th, 1972. Why did it crash? Again, there are multiple possible explanations, including a mechanical failure, B, whether C, pilot error or D, a bomb or some other black swan event. I don't buy option a catastrophic mechanical failure. The plane had just undergone a 100 hour inspection the day before it disappeared. And then that night, Don flew it safely from Fairbanks to Anchorage. I know at this very moment some pilots are squirming in their seats.

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So let me explain to the general public what these pilots have explained to me. The odds of a small plane suffering a mechanical failure actually go up after a thorough inspection because everything gets jostled around, etc., but the higher odds are still extremely low. So option B, whether this is what most people believe brought down the plane, specifically ice turbulence seems less likely. It would have been most severe in Portage Pass, but the plane apparently made it through the pass, through the worst of it.

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So, again, ice, to be clear, there's zero doubt that icing conditions were present that day. The weather was undeniably bad, but it's important to explain a few things. First, when you think of a small plane icing up and crashing, what do you picture?

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Do you see it freezing into an ice cube and just falling out of the sky? Because if so, that's not how it works. The real reason ISIS so dangerous, as Don himself pointed out in his article, Ice Without Fear, which ran the same month he disappeared, is not the weight it adds. It's because ice can interfere with airflow, making it hard, if not impossible, for small planes to climb. So you risk losing altitude, stalling and then eventually crashing.

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Second, why does nearly everyone believe ICE brought down the missing plane? There are two important reasons here. No wreckage was ever found. So zero evidence. But everyone wants some explanation. And that brings me to Don Jons, the pilot. He's an easy scapegoat in ice without fear, which again was on newsstands when the plane disappeared. Don made several inflammatory comments, including, quote, Playing with ice is like playing with the devil. Fun, but don't play unless you can cheat.

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But that's only a single line. Read the whole article. Don was wicked smart and a damn good pilot. He survived more than seventeen thousand hours, flying an often brutal Arctic conditions. Yes, he was arrogant. But there's a difference between arrogance, born of inexperienced youth and arrogance, born of actually being good at what you do. Now, grizzled pilots like to say there are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old bold pilots. And there's some truth to that.

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If you take risks, your odds of dying obviously go up to these old timers. Don is a very polarizing figure. They see him as either a genius or a fool. And this polarization is very important because when you combine bad weather and Don's article, conditions were right for Don to take the fall for the coqui pilot who ice up and crashed narrative to dominate, even though since no wreckage was ever found. That theory, too, is based entirely on speculation.

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Furthermore, while evaluating the ice theory, let's take a closer look at weather conditions that day. By Alaska standards, they were actually pretty mild. The surface temperature along much of the plane's route was in the 40s, well above freezing. And in the air, the freezing level was at about five to six thousand feet. What does this tell us? For argument's sake, let's say Don did encounter moderate to severe icing conditions, first as an experienced pilot.

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He would have known quickly that he was in trouble. Second, it's extremely unlikely, almost impossible that ice could have built up so quickly that it caused the plane to suddenly plummet into the sea. If Don was flying high enough and to accumulate a significant amount of ice that day, he would have had to have been he would have had time to descend into warmer air. And even if he iced up while crossing through Portage Pass, he still had 75 miles to go before reaching Hinchinbrook.

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He would have been over open water most of the time. He had time to escape into warm air and he had room. Now, let's look at the plane itself. A twin engine Cessna 310 see the 310 is not intended to fine icing conditions for any extended period of time, no matter what, regardless. Just because the three 10 Encounter's icing conditions doesn't mean it will automatically crash. So other than pilot experience, the vital question is what kind of icing equipment did the plane have?

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First, you have to delineate between A.I.S equipment and de-ice equipment. A.I.S equipment helps prevent ice buildup. D Ice equipment helps remove it. According to the NTSB final accident report, the missing plane had only a single piece of icing equipment. A heated pito tube, which is a device that prevents ice from interfering with airspeed measurements pass that. The NTSB report states explicitly that the plane had no other A.I.S equipment and it makes no mention of any de-ice equipment either, since ISIS most often cited as the reason the plane crashed.

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This is extremely important.

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Now, listen closely to what I'm about to tell you, because to my knowledge, nobody has ever reported it. Until now, there appear to be major errors in the NTSB report, discrepancies and omissions. Before I go on, let me credit Mike Travis, a pilot based in Washington State who has extensive experience flying in Alaska as the first person to notice this. Mike and I both obtained the missing plane's airworthiness records from the FAA. Mike also obtained copies of the plane's original records from Cessna in these records.

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We found something fascinating. It appears that the missing plane was outfitted with three pieces of anti ice and DHS equipment that were not mentioned in the NTSB accident report. This is a huge deal specifically, Mike. I found documentation that the plane had one pneumatic de-ice boots on both its wings and horizontal stabilizer part of its tail. Pilots inflate de-ice boots to crack ice off a plane's airframe and allow wind to carry it away to an alcohol based A.I.S propeller system, which pumps A.I.S fluid onto propeller blades.

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And three, a de-ice light. According to Andrew Kallet, a Georgia based pilot who co-hosts the defense security podcast De-ice Lights Light. You light up the leading edge of wings at night to see if you're picking up ice. So why did the NTSB mention none of this? How did the NTSB miss three pieces of A.I.S and de-ice equipment on a plane presumed have been felled by ice? The most generous explanation is gross negligence that the NTSB just missed the equipment.

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Beyond that, it's possible that the icing equipment was removed sometime before the plane disappeared. But if it was removed, that should have been documented. Finally, it's possible that the icing equipment was there, but it didn't work. It was an operative. So the NTSB just didn't mention it. But the NTSB did mention a different system on the plane that was functional. But an operative, an oxygen system that worked but had not been serviced with oxygen.

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So even if the plane had an operative icing equipment, the NTSB should have mentioned it, as it did with the oxygen system. For clarification, I called Phil Hughes, the mechanic who worked on the missing plane the day before it disappeared. Phil remembers that at the very least, the plane did have functioning de-ice boots, meaning not only were they not removed, but they weren't. To recap, according to FAA records, Cessna records and Phil with the missing plane, apparently had three pieces of icing equipment not included in the NTSB accident report.

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Why did the NTSB exclude this equipment? I don't know. But by not including it, the NTSB helped further the ISTEP and crashed narrative, the narrative that most people to this day still believe. Now, the fact that the plane had this extra equipment does not mean it's impossible that an ice shtupping crashed. It means it's less likely the extra equipment should have bought Don Jons, the pilot, at least an additional five to 10 minutes to escape into better conditions and or warmer air altogether.

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When you combine Don's experience, mild temperatures and extra unreported icing equipment not cited by the NTSB, the ISTEP in crash theory seems much less likely today than at any point in the last 50 years.

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Can I help you? One. Her brother dead, said it was an unimaginable crime.

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How it was the second biggest mass murder in 2016. Behind the Pulse nightclub shooting, eight people dead, all from the same family. It would become the largest criminal investigation in Ohio's history.

[00:20:32]

Pike County sheriffs requested state help immediately after they got word. In the early morning of April 22nd, 2016, eight members of the Rowden family were brutally murdered, shot to death execution style in their homes.

[00:20:48]

Eight victims and 24 gunshot wounds, three children left alive at the scenes. This is the pectin massacre. Listen to the piped in massacre on Wednesday, July twenty ninth on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcasts over ever you get your podcasts. Hello, this is Leah Rumney and I am joined by Mike Rinder, and we are so excited to continue this journey with a new podcast called Scientology. Fair Game. Mike, thank you for continuing this journey with me.

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And thank you for continuing to fight.

[00:21:27]

Of course, Leah. And the same to you. I couldn't be happier to be back together in the saddle again, taking on the subject of the abuses of Scientology. And hopefully with this podcast, we can get into things in even greater depth and perhaps more incisively than we were able to do in the limitations of a network TV show.

[00:21:51]

So we got a lot to do here. Leah, guess who isn't happy about this podcast? Mike Scientology. So gear up.

[00:22:01]

Scientology can be a bumpy ride. Listen to Scientology fair game on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[00:22:26]

So I've examined two possible explanations for why the plane crashed, mechanical failure and weather. What about the others? Option C is pilot error. Now, Don was very smart and very experienced. But that doesn't rule out pilot error. It just means it's less likely, for argument's sake, let's say pilot error did play a role here. There are many possible scenarios and we can't examine them all. But one, perhaps the likeliest is that Don flew too low and slammed into a mountain or glacier.

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But this doesn't make sense. Remember, witnesses heard a plane. Probably this plane pass over Whittier and beyond Whittier. It's mostly open water and toll Hinchinbrook. That leaves us with option D.. The Black Swan event, a bomb or something else? Unexpected and extreme. Seven. Was the plane bombed? I don't know. Eight. Could the plane have been bombed? Yes. How? Maybe with a bomb triggered by barometric pressure or a timer or a radio receiver.

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The possibilities are endless. Where would you hide it? Probably in the tail compartment. Why would anyone bomb it? Well, that gets to motive. That gets to Jerry Paisley and his claims. Nine. Do you think Jerry Peisley lied?

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I think there's a strong possibility that he did tell the truth, at least in part. And I'm not alone in that opinion. The three members of law enforcement and the NBC producer who interviewed him all agree with me. Look, if I thought everything Paisley said was bullshit, I would tell you I'm not here to lie to you. I'm here to tell the truth to the best of my ability. I've tried to keep speculation to a minimum. I want you to make up your own mind.

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But come on. You mean to tell me that one year after a congressman vanished by pure coincidence, his widow stumbled into a mobster, married him? And by the way, this guy murdered five or six people, bombed a judge's house and had close ties to two prominent mafia families? For argument's sake. Okay, chalk it up to coincidence. Twenty years after this coincidence, this guy, Jerry Paisley, tells law enforcement a shocking story. He claims that Peggie Baggage met with mob boss Joe Bonnano in Tucson in the summer of 1972 right before her husband, Congressman Nick Begich, disappeared.

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He claims that shortly thereafter, a banana lieutenant named Joe Ayata Rola or Joey the. I asked him to fly a suitcase to Anchorage. He claims he did fly a suitcase to Anchorage. He claims that two men, Danis Evidence and Jean Fowler picked him up at the Anchorage airport and that later that night, the three of them met up with Gene's brother, Larry. He claims that after he Peggy and given it went into business in 1974, Zevin told him that Peggy owed him because he, quote, blew her old man out of the sky.

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Now, what if peaslee story. Can we prove Peisley? Did Mary Peggy baggage Peisley and Peggy did go into business with zevin edge. Peisley did have close ties to two mob families. The Bonanos and the lack of always Peisley did murder people and conduct bombings. The rest, I'm not 100 percent sure. But if Paisleys claims are true, if I'd speculate the following things. One Gene and Larry Fowler were bit players. Gene was paid to pick up Peisley at the airport and not ask questions.

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And the three men just hung out that night with Larry to Joe. Ayatollah was also a bit player. He ran an errand for his boss. Three Peisley knew more than he let on, but he was still mostly a bit player. For as for Danny's Evan, it he's a cipher. I don't know much about him. He was in the military, moved to Alaska and was a bartender. Next thing you know, he owns 50 percent of Macs Inc, the company he started with, Peggy and Peisley five.

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The mob would have gotten involved for one of two reasons. First, there's always a direct payment. Give us money. We'll give you a bomb. Second, and I think this is more likely if Peggy won next seat and she did run for it. The mob would have had Alaska's only Congress person in its back pocket during a gold rush time. The oil boom, when there were moves and money to be made, you could ask, well, why go through all that trouble?

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Why not bribe or blackmail Nick baggage instead? And my answer would be that every single person I've interviewed and I mean every person said Nick was clean and a man of integrity. I don't think he could be bought off or blackmailed. Six, if the plane was bombed, why do it with Hale Boggs on board? To that, I'd say if someone bombed the plane, they would have had to factor in the likelihood that wreckage would be found and a bomb identified as the cause of the crash.

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And then who would everyone pinpoint as the target? The nerdy first term congressman from Alaska or the House majority leader who served on the Warren Commission? Seven. Why would Peggy get involved, though? Her son Tom denies it. Multiple people told me that Peggies marriage to Nick was strained, that they were separated and considering a divorce. Peggy met Nick in Minnesota when Nick was a young 20 something high school teacher, her high school teacher. They got married, moved to Alaska, had six kids, and then Nick was gone most of the time.

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Working documents show that Peggy got about a million dollars in today's dollars after Nick disappeared. Eight. Even if Paisley told the truth, it's possible Peggy did not know what she was getting herself into. She could have been manipulated and used nine Peisley might have told the truth. In part, it might not be so simple as he lied or he told the truth. Maybe he told part of the truth.

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And this leads me to an interesting theory. When I sat down with Tom Davis, the Arizona investigator who observed Paisleys wedding to Peggy in 1974 and interviewed. Paisley in nineteen ninety four, he pointed out something interesting in the red dot photos. Peggy Paisley wedding photos. Every person connected to organized crime is tied primarily to the liquor vollies, not the Bonanos. Heck, even Pete Lick of old Junior himself is there, but none of the Bonanos. In addition, the Kon-Tiki where Paisley claimed Peggie met with Joe Bonnano was owned, at least in part not by the Bonanos but by the lick of Alwis.

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Also in 1974, Joe I, Motorola or Joey, the I, the man who allegedly gave Paisley the suitcase filled with explosives, was secretly photographed at a Tucson golf tournament with two of paisleys friends Sal Spinelli and Pete like of all Junior. Finally, in F.B.I. Records, I found something very interesting. An FBI memo dated October six, 1972, only 10 days before the congressman disappeared. States that Gerry Paisley was spotted in September 1972, around the same time he claimed to have transported explosives to Anchorage with Pete Lick of Olie Senior.

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The big boss. Here's part of the memo with the word blank substituted in for redacted sections. Quote, Source advised that on nine nineteen seventy two, Jerry Max Paisley and Pete Lick of Always Senior had been in the Hilton in Bar together during the time they were in the bar. They blank source stated that she had heard that Paisley was presently residing at the Hilton in motel and quote and there is a second FBI memo quote On September 21st, 1972 p.

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x t dashed to advise that on blank Jerry Max Paisley and Pete Lick of Always Senior had been in the Hilton in Bar together during the time that they were in the bar together. They were also joined by Blank Source stated he had heard that Paisley was presently residing at the Hilton in motel. End quote. So part two FBI memos, Gerry Paisley was observed with Pete like of only senior in Tucson on September 19th, 1972, only 27 days before the congressman disappeared again.

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Paisley claimed that Peggy Baggage visited Tucson sometime around August 1972, and that about two weeks later, he transported a locked suitcase with explosives to Anchorage. So why would Peisley blame the Bonanos instead of the lick of Alwis? I don't know. Maybe he wanted to protect them. Maybe he wanted to protect himself by changing key details. At this point, let me pause, because I need to correct an error I made in two previous episodes in Episodes four and eight.

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I stated that Peggie Baggage and Jerry Peisley were accompanied on their honeymoon to Mexico in 1974 by Pete Look of only Junior and his wife, Kathy. That's incorrect. Kathy is Pete's sister, not his wife. So my correction is this. Peggy Baggage and Jerry Paisley were accompanied in March 1974 on their honeymoon to Mexico by Pete Lick of Olie Junior and his sister Kathy. Two of my boss, Pete Lica voice. Seniors, children.

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Hi, I'm Heidi Murkoff, host of the upcoming What to Expect podcasts, an I heart radio. Motherhood is the ultimate sisterhood. The you know that black moms in the U.S. are three to four times more likely to die from a pregnancy related complication because of a lack of quality care. That's unacceptable. And that's why I'm asking you to join us on July 22nd for our sixth annual fund day to celebrate beautiful bumps and healthy pregnancies and show your solidarity and support for moms everywhere to share a bomb past or present yours or a bump you love with the hashtag bump day.

[00:33:04]

For more information, go to what to expect. Project dot org.

[00:33:11]

Hey, I'm Steve Greenberg, the host of Hart's new podcast, Speed of Sound.

[00:33:17]

Speed of Sound is a music history podcast that gives you an all access pass into the songs and sounds that have become the soundtrack to our lives.

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You'll hear how the hits really hit the top of the charts straight from the artists and innovators who created them from groundbreaking cultural shifts like the teen pop explosion of the mid 90s to dance crazes like The Twist and Disco Studio 54 changed the entire game.

[00:33:41]

It felt you were a magical place. And if they played your music, wow, you really will delve into left field pop music phenomena like the monster mash and even who let the dogs out. A guy barking and singing about dogs. I thought this is got be a joke. We'll take you back in time and straight through today's charts to tackle Pop's top songs and most sensational scandal filled stories.

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Obviously, people were doing drugs. Could you be up at that hour? Not be doing drugs?

[00:34:13]

You know, the Speed of Sound premieres July 28. Listen and follow a speed of sound on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Ten, whether or not his claims are true, why did Paisley make them at all? Why did he speak to law enforcement? I don't know. However, I've said it before and I'll say it again. It is possible Paisley just lied. Maybe there's no good reason why.

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Maybe he was just an asshole. But beyond lying for the fun of it, I struggle to see any logical reason why he would make these claims if they were false. He got no time off his sentence. No media attention, no money. And he did not express a boiling hatred of Peggie baggage. In fact, if you read the transcript, even Paisley speculates that she didn't really know what she got herself into. In an email, Tom Baggage told me, quote, My family is wearied by the things people like Jerry have said for their moment of fame or notoriety.

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And the quote. But to Tom, I'd ask this. What fame, what notoriety? Paisley spoke about this with one journalist before he died. He did not embark on a publicity campaign. Paisley even asked his biographer, Sean Atwood, to use a pseudonym after he died. And in Atwood's book, The Mafia Philosopher. There's no mention of the alleged bombing, something you'd figure Paisley would want if he craved fame. Finally, if what he wanted was fame and glory.

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Why would Paisley downplay his role? Because in the bombing narrative, he's not some bad ass mob guy. He's a glorified delivery man who flew a suitcase from Tucson to Anchorage.

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Eleven past speculation. Is there anything that backs up Paisleys story, even parts of it? In short, maybe Peisley told investigators that when Peggie Baggage visited Tucson around August 1972, he used a fake name to book her room at the Spanish Trail Motel in the FBI records I obtained. There are conveniently multiple memos detailing where Peisley lived at various points during the summer of 1972. June 1st, 1972. The Tidelands Motel. August 18th, 1972. The Spanish Trail Motel.

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September 21st, 1972. The Hilton in. So the FBI records document that not only did Peisley live at the Spanish Trail Motel in August 1972 when Peggie Baggage allegedly stayed there, but also that Peisley moved frequently. So if Peisley lied, he had an amazing ability 24 years later to remember exactly where he lived. During one month in the summer of 1972 so that he could incorporate that detail into his lie. Twelve. Did you find anything else in the FBI records?

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Yes, and it's weird again. Let me read you part of an FBI memo using the word blank for redacted sections, quote, On August 20 3rd, 1972, Blank telephoned blank, advised that he had received information from his blank.

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That during the early part of August 1972, Blank had told her that he had been brought to the Tucson area by the chief of the FBI in New Orleans.

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He stated that this trip had been made on an FBI jet aircraft and that several other agents, possibly from the Albuquerque area, had a company blank.

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And the agent from New Orleans Blank stated that he was told by blank that upon their arrival at Tucson, all of the individuals interviewed Jerry Peisley at the airport and that Peisley had been taken to the airport by local Tucson FBI agents. End quote. So here in an FBI memo, we have an allegation that Jerry Peisley was taken to the Tucson airport in early August 1972 and interviewed by FBI agents 13.

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Does the idea of the plane being bombed make any sense? Yes. Here's what we know. The missing plane likely made it through Portage Pass within five to 15 minutes. It would have been within range of the radio relay at Johnstone Point, but the pilot, Don John's, never radioed in again. So as far as I can tell, something catastrophic and sudden caused the plane to crash. I've told you why. I think mechanical failure and pilot error are unlikely.

[00:39:04]

So what does that leave 14? Aren't you reading too much into this? The simplest explanation still is that the plane iced up and crashed. The weather was bad that day. Yes, the weather was bad. But let's do an exercise. Let's say you put a bomb in my trunk and I drive off a cliff during a blizzard. Nobody finds me. Does the fact that I drove off a cliff in a blizzard mean the bomb wasn't in my trunk?

[00:39:32]

Fifteen. Aren't you being extremely unfair to Peggy baggage?

[00:39:37]

In my opinion, no. I gave Miss Baggage and her family plenty of opportunities to tell their side of the story except for Tom Baggage, his e-mails. They declined to answer any questions. And Charles Wohlforth, their friend, the author who investigated Paisleys claims but never published them, posted a message with multiple inaccuracies on Facebook last year, warning people not to work with me. I still want to tell Peggy's side of the story. She always has an open invitation to do an interview.

[00:40:07]

The baggage is probably figured it was wise not to speak with me to deny the story oxygen. And hey, it worked to some degree as of this recording. No media in Alaska except the Fairbanks Daily News minor has reported this story. Still, it's especially egregious, in my opinion, that the Anchorage Daily News hasn't covered it at all.

[00:40:30]

16. So what now? Two things. First, the FBI should reopen its investigation into Jerry Paisleys claims. There are people alive who have answers. It's not too late. Also, the bureau should examine how the case was handled in the 1990s. Second, someone should conduct a full search for the plane in and around Port Etches where Bob Martinsen found the tailpiece. We searched, but obviously we don't have the resources of, say, the federal government or James Cameron.

[00:41:05]

Now, we could go back with more equipment. So if you're listening and you want to fund another search, email us seriously. If we go back to Port Etches in addition to ARV's or remotely operated vehicles, we need at least three other things a magnetometer, a tow behind metal detector and side scan sonar. A magnetometer would allow us to detect certain metals, ferrous metals like iron and steel, but not aluminum. It would allow us to search for parts of the plane, like the engines, a tow behind metal detector.

[00:41:39]

On the other hand, would allow us to detect aluminum and side scan sonar would allow us to look at the sea floor with this equipment. If the baggage bogs plane, it is in port edges. There's a good chance we could find it, regardless of what comes of this show. Whether or not the FBI reopens its investigation or another search is conducted in Port Etches, I will continue to investigate new leads and we are getting them every day. For now, though, this is a story with no ending.

[00:42:11]

But even stories with no ending deserve to be told. But wait. Only a few days ago, after we finalized this episode, we got some startling new information. So even though this was supposed to be our final episode, we'll be back. However, at this point, we're reporting the story in real time, meaning we can't publish every week. Stay tuned. No task this week. Instead, questions for the Alaska news media, especially the Anchorage Daily News.

[00:42:50]

How long can you ignore this story? When will you report it? And why haven't you reported it ever? You can reach us by phone at one eight three three MRA tips. That's one eight three three six four two eight four seven seven again one eight three three six four two eight four seven seven.

[00:43:14]

Or you can reach us via email at tips at eye heart media dot com. That's tips t ip as an I heart media dot com and you've already been very helpful. Among other things, you helped us find Joe Tatum, The Last Man Alive, who heard the bizarre radio transmission the day the plane vanished. You helped us find Alex Dressler, the reporter who observed Peggie and Paisleys wedding. Dressler did not respond to interview requests. Regardless, thanks to Michael Knocka for helping us find him.

[00:43:45]

Finally, you also help us figure out that the photo everyone thought was the last known photo of the missing congressman is actually not the last known photo of them. There are others. Unfortunately, the photographer who did take the final known photos did not respond to interview requests. An important note, none of the people Jerry Peisley claim took part in or had knowledge of the alleged bombing. Joe Bonano. Joe, I had to roll a Danny's vintage Jean Fowler, Larry Fowler or Peggy Baggage wherever charged with or convicted of any crimes tied to any of paisleys allegations.

[00:44:23]

Peggy Baggage and Deniz of Inish declined multiple interview requests.

[00:44:27]

Jean Fowler was unavailable for an interview. Joe Bonnano, Joe Ayatollah and Larry Fowler are dead.

[00:44:33]

P LIG of L.A. Junior and Mike, like of Olie, did not respond to multiple interview requests. We were unable to reach Kathy. Look, of only Pete. Like of all, a senior is dead. Ben Bowlin is our executive producer of Debt and is our supervising producer. Chris Brown is our assistant producer. Seth, Nicholas Johnson is our producer. Sam Teagarden is our research assistant. And I'm your host and executive producer, Jon Walzak. You can find me on Twitter,@@ John Wall, Zach Jato and WAFL CV, a.k.a..

[00:45:06]

Our team has been amazing. Ben, Paul, Chris, Seth and Sam. Thank you. And thank you to I heart for supporting this show. Paul is also a filmmaker.

[00:45:17]

He directed a movie that came out last year called Annie in the City. Check it out on Amazon, A and E. Why in the city? On a personal note, thank you to my friends and family, especially the three fearless women who helped raise me, my mom, aunt and grandma, and my dad, too. A shout out to my alma mater, USC Asheville. And a special thanks to Janine Robb for studio space and for your support.

[00:45:44]

Missing in Alaska is a work of investigative journalism. I spent nine years researching this story, but most journalists don't have the luxury of spending years or months or even weeks on a single story. To that end, please support local media regardless of your politics. A strong local press is vital to hold everyone accountable.

[00:46:04]

And I'd like to ask you a favor if you can please donate to The Lens, a small non-profit news outlet in my city, New Orleans. Go to the lens. Nola dawg. That's the lens. Nola dawg. Finally, there's also an amazing non-profit that cleans up marine debris in Prince William Sound called Gulf of Alaska Keeper Wargo, a.k.a.. Thank you to Chris Pallister, who founded the Organization for consulting with us before our trip to Hinchinbrook Island. You can learn more about and donate to go AKCA at Go AKCA Dawg.

[00:46:41]

That's go a k dot org. Missing in Alaska is a co-production of Eye, Heart, Media and Green for Media. Hi, this is Leah Remini and I am joined by Mike Rinder, and we are so excited to continue our journey with a new podcast called Scientology Fair Game. Mike. When can people hear it? The first episode is airing on 21 July Leha and then weekly thereafter. OK. And for those who are not hoity toity. That's July 21st.

[00:47:17]

Thank you. Listen to Scientology Fair Game on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[00:47:26]

Hi, I'm Heidi Murkoff, author of What to Expect When You're Expecting and host of the upcoming What to Expect podcast. And I heart radio, I always say motherhood is the ultimate sisterhood. But did you know that black moms in the United States are three to four times more likely to die from pregnancy related complications because of disparities in care, and more than two thirds of those deaths are preventable? That's unacceptable. And that's why I'm asking you to join us on July 22nd for our sixth annual Bumpe Day to celebrate beautiful bumps and healthy pregnancies, raise awareness and show your solidarity and support for every mom everywhere.

[00:48:10]

Just share a bump. Past or present, yours or bump you love with the hashtag bump day. So every mom can expect a healthy beginning and a healthy future for herself and the baby she loves. On July 22nd, please spread the word. Share the love, help save lives. See you on Monday. For more information, go to what to expect project dot org.