Hey, Weirdo's, I'm ushe and Emelina, and this is morbid. It's a real morbid and I remember to say what my name was before pausing, you did you didn't pause this time. I was proud of you. Hey, yo. Hey, you know, only took me two years. You got it. You're here. We're all here. We're proud of you. Let's do this together.

All righty. Let's let's do the damn thing. I feel ready now. Let's do it. See, I'm a pump up artist. Nothing.

So I think we really only have, like, a couple of things we wanted to touch upon before we enter this ash centric episode.

Hi, it's me, Ash. The first thing was just something true. Crime news. I'm sure everybody has been aware that there's been some movement in the Madeleine McCann case. Finally thousand seven, that case we've always wanted to cover. But there was just a lot of movement in it.

And I kind of wanted to wait until the moving parts have stopped. And I think I'm going we're going to continue to wait and see on this one because things have really heated up in it.

And I don't want to do what happened with the Vanessa Keaton case and have people notice that we did it too quick.

So I'm going to wait on this one. Yeah.

And wait till the final till we figure out what's going on, because what's happening is they have this German like pedophile. Essentially, he's a rapist, a pedophile like a genuine monster.

They're calling him Christian be Christian, which I think is dumb. They just release this fucker and have at it. He's already in prison for raping a 72 year old woman.

Oh, my God. On camera what he did.

And he raped this woman in the same place in Portugal where Maddy was taken.

Oh, shit.

And it was like yards away from where? I'm sorry.

I think you've said this before. There's many coincidences in life. But this is not one of them. Not one of them. Not one. Also, there's not that many coincidences, really. Let's be real. Let's be real.

And I mean, his van was seen like outside of where she was taken.

It seems plausible that she would have to be put into like a van or something, you know? I mean, it's just right. The whole thing is really adding up. They've been searching his property. They found a hidden cellar in his property. They also were looking at a well on his property that had been boarded up. I'm sorry.

If you have a boarded up well and a hidden cellar on your property, you're up to no good.

And there's somebody who's living in, like one of the parts of the property right now, like she was renting part of it because he's not living there right now. What do you know? This we'll know. She her name is Sabina Selig, and she knows she's the one who contacted police. And we're like, I think that, like, there might be things here, like I'm terrified. She actually said that she is sleeping outside because she's in such a panic that she's sleeping on a dead body.

Oh, I said I'd be like, is it OK if I break my lease? I hope you don't mind, please. And thank you. So there is there's another case of this guy could be connected to.

It's often referred to as the German madie, which I don't like them. Like she has a name. She's a human being. Yeah. Well, fuck, Madeleine McCann is one person in this person.

Ingar Rikki is a five year old who went missing and she went missing May 2nd, 2015, from a forest in Germany pretty recently. And she was at a barbecue with her family. She went to get firewood with other children and she just disappeared. Oh, my God.

And what they found was that he, Christian B, had rented a parking spot very close to where her family was having this barbecue because he saw all the kids.

How is it that this fucker is that close to this many missing children? Yeah, that just doesn't happen. It doesn't make any sense. So they've been searching that.

I mean, I'm hoping they find something that really gives closure serious.

Again, I'm not going to go fully into the Maddy case or anything like that yet because we want to cover it and a total like a total episode. And I have lots of thoughts. Beliefs.

Yeah, well, and I think it's nice to be able to cover a case in its entirety. Yeah. It's like, sure, it's nice when whenever we get updates, it's fun to be like, oh guys, this is updated. But I if we can get a full, you know, some closure at the end of it, obviously that's the best way to wrap it up with a neat little bow.

And we got time because what are we all doing, you know, we're all here together. Yeah. We'll just wait around for it.

We're all in this together.

We're all going to pretend that that didn't happen. We're just going to move right along. It's who I am. We're going to where to sail right through that one. I remember when you took me to High School Musical, and I do remember that. So you did that. You just did that for you? I did.

So I think the only other thing we wanted to mention was that we are still working on, you know, next year for twenty twenty one, getting your shows rescheduled. Some people are probably going to be getting refunds because it's like dates can't be set yet. But again, we're going to update you as soon as we know these things. I just want to keep you abreast of the situation. We want you to know all the updates. So that's the latest update we have, is that there's.

Really not a lot on this update is no update. We're also we're working on it, though. We're working on it.

And we're also planning some more virtual live events to keep you satiated in the meantime.

We're going to try to get some for the, you know, all our international lovelies that, you know, it was not a crazy time. The last one for you. We'll try to work one for you guys. You know, maybe it won't just be us next time. Maybe maybe we'll invite a friend, too. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Do you know? I don't know. Who knows?

I like when we talk to them, like. Like we're in the car together. I love it. Hi, guys. Hey, girl. Well, but I think that's really all we had to touch upon. Yeah. So let's, uh, let's do this thing.

All right. So before I even start my case, I have to say that so many people just like randomly one week we're tweeting at me that I needed to watch Bailly Syrians videos and I was like, who's mainly Syrian? And then I sat on my couch for I was a Sunday. I sat there for a solid eight hours and just watched 90 million daily Syrian videos. And I was like, this girl is my soul sister. I love her.

Yes. And her videos are so good. It's amazing. I love her. She's so talented. So if you don't know who that is, she's a YouTube and she does makeup in Murder Mystery Mondays. Yep. And then she also uploads on Saturdays. But the makeup and murder mystery Mondays are so far so good.

So I was watching a ton of them and one that like really interested me and I wanted to find more and more was the one that she did about the Jenny Jones show. Yes. So it's the Jenny Jones secret crush murder. I used to watch the Jenny Jones show.

OK, so cool, because in my bolded notes right here, it says, Does Elena remember?

I really do, because it was one of those things that, like, mom wouldn't let me watch. Oh, I would like sneak it. I believe it. Don't don't say too much because I have questions. So let me start I'll let you start over here.

So the Jenny Jones show premiered in 1993. Sure did.

I wasn't born yet. I love to do that to you guys. But you. That's right. So Jenny Jones herself, I don't know. Maybe you didn't know all this. She was like a Jill of all trades. She was a comedian, a singer. And before she got her talk show, she made like random appearances, like here, there and everywhere.

I didn't know that you didn't like. I'm going to tell you some more about her. Tell me about it.

Do you know Wayne Newton? I do. I figured we knew. You don't know. I do. But I was just making sure everybody's on the same page.

Wayne Newton was the one that actually discovered Jenny while she was she was like with her band touring in Las Vegas. Yeah. And he was like, yo, that girl so talented. Let me let me put her on. I didn't know that. So she got a little bigger after that. And along the way she kind of started to realize that comedy was more her thing, like she'd be singing and then in between songs she'd be like boom and, you know, just like a really good drummer.

She did Star Search in 1986 and she ended up winning the comedy prize that included getting a hundred thousand dollar check. We'll get her. So she started to be like rolling in it. Yeah.

So she wins all that money and she keeps singing and she keeps touring and she starts getting a lot more attention and like magazines and stuff from media all over the place. Yeah.

And that's when she got approached by Warner Brothers to do the Jenny Jones show.

Huh. I wondered how that happened. I always wonder how people get these things. I do, too, because it's like, who are you? Yeah. Also, her real name is not Jenny Jones.

Oh, that's upsetting because I was going to say with a name like Jenny Jones, I forget what it got to do. Something like that. I just looked it up. Her real name is Janina Strunsky. OK, yeah, I mean, that's a lot. Well, she's she's actually kind of a cool name, but she's Canadian American and I think she was born in Israel. Wow. So I think I mean, it's definitely not is like easy to like Jenny Jones is like it rolls off the tongue.

It's easy to remember. It's like it's a Jenny Jones. It's like, you know, everybody knows Jenny, everyone knows a Jones. And like the Jenny Jones show just sounds like such a show of that era. You can't have, like, a unique name and have a talk show, you know, exactly like Geneina. Stransky wouldn't have work. No, people wouldn't remember it, I think, because it would be hard to remember.

Yeah, I got that. So Jenny Jones was like, hell, yeah, let's get it. Let's do the Jenny Jones show. I'm stoked. So now I want you to kind of talk about, like, what was on the Jenny Jones show, if I remember correctly, because I watched it when I was younger.

I think it was like akin to like a Ricki Lake show are like almost like because Maury didn't start out with, like, the art. You are the father. Well, neither did Jenny.

Started out with, like, more like Oprah. Yeah.

Yeah, it was it was kind of like like I don't know if anybody has watched now because I haven't watched it, but I've seen it like in passing the Tamron Hall show where she has people on and they talk about like, oh, I've watched that like a couple times, like lots of drama and lots of like. Yeah, but the Jenny Jones show kind of started off just like you said, how Maury didn't start off. That's actually exactly what I started off with, the paternity test and stuff like that.

She kind of started off wanting to be like Oprah. Yeah. Like, like really talking about issues and like. Right. Like she almost like like a Dr. Phil Oprah show she into to very dramatic things with people. Right. Like and kind of like helping I guess. But that doesn't make for good ratings all the time. No. And then all these other shows, like you said, the Maury Show and Jerry Springer, they get that grab Ricki Lake, I think I think, um, never mind.

I forgot what I was going to say. So I'm like I just, like, closed my eyes and I'll see. She just put her hands her, like, fingers over her eyes or was just like, no, never mind, never forget. Because, you know, when you're going to say something to me like what the fuck was I just about to say? Just goes Woombye. Yeah. So back to Jaja.

She was like, you know, I'm not getting these ratings. Warner Brothers was probably like, we got to keep up your show, so let's go. So then she started doing things like like Balestrero Saryan was saying, like her favorites were the teenage makeovers. My golf daughter.

I don't want her to look OK. That's exactly what I remember. Yeah. And like you said, the paternity test. And then they got this episode idea that was called Secret Crush.

Oh, yes. OK, OK. Yeah, you know. Yeah, OK, that's no I didn't know, I couldn't find if there had ever been one before this happened. So, so it was a thing secret rush because the specific episode that we're going to talk about was filmed but never aired. Yeah. I can understand why.

So basically like the idea was that if you had a secret crush on somebody, you would write into the show kind of explaining your crush and like what you liked about them, who you were, who you were, and you would get on the show and then you would be like sitting there on the stage and kind of explaining this about them.

And then they would be brought out on stage and it would be revealed right there. And I think a lot of people remember that as ambush television. Yes. Because you are kind of ambushed. Definitely ambushed. Right.

And like the person would have no idea until they were right there on stage and the cameras were rolling and they would have to react appropriately. That is a little bit of an ambush. It's the definition of an ambush. Yeah.

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So there was this man, Scott Ammeter, and he was a viewer and like a fan of the Jenny Jones show, and he also had a secret crush. Yes, girl. Oh, I nailed a secret crush. But you know how I do these. Before we get into that, we got to go back a little bit. We certainly do. Got to start at the beginning. Let's find out which is where I never start. But before we get to that, I think it's important to talk a little bit about who Scott was.

So Scott was born in Pittsburgh in 1963.

His parents were Frank and Patricia, Frank and Frank and Patty, Frank and Patty. You know, they had five kids together, which like Kalgoorlie. Good for you, man. So Scott had three brothers and a sister. I'm not totally sure where he was on line up. I tried to figure it out, but yes, sometimes it's hard to find that stuff.

Well, especially in cases like this, it's like they only tell you the story of what happened. And finding background is so difficult. It is. Yeah. Like even what I'm talking about here, I had to dig real hard to be like, who are you?

Like, I got in the dirt other than just this. So yeah, the five or five kids he has three brothers and a sister. Crazy. Other than that, his childhood was pretty normal. His parents did get divorced when he was five and he and his siblings primarily lived with their dad.

OK, so when he was 17, he decides he wants to drop out of high school and he wants to enlist in the army, which at that time was like not something so crazy. Yeah, a lot of people were doing that.

So he does just that. And he really enjoyed what he did and he was super, super good at it. His specific specialty was satellite communications. And not only did he do all that, but while he was enlisted, he also got his GED.

Wow, look at him go. He was like doing the damn thing, doing it.

So he ended up being in the army for about three years and he was honorably discharged. I think he had, like, broken his leg at one point. So I think that had something to do with it. OK, it wasn't. But it was possibly like disability. Kind of, yeah. So when he was done in the army, he was kind of just working like regular nine to five jobs, kind of like the stuff that he was doing in the army, like the satellite work and everything.

Yeah. But then he kind of realized that he preferred working at night. He was like, you know, nightlife is kind of my thing. Like I like to talk to people. I love the nightlife. Maybe the nightlife is fun. I was going to say, like, the nightlife didn't choose me. I chose the nightlife the other way around anyways.

So he was like, I'm going to become a bartender. Oh, that's a perfect nightlife job, perfect nightlife job. And he really loved, like I said, talking to people. And according to his friends and family, he was a super good time, like really friendly guy. So they go bartenders, perfect for you. He was also somebody who would help anybody if they needed it. Scott himself identified as gay and a lot of his friends had been diagnosed with the AIDS virus.

And if they didn't have anywhere to go, he would take them and like no questions asked and just take care of them.

I love that. What a human. That's like a little bit about Scotton. Yeah, even a little blip. It's like, wow, what's your period? Yeah, you really are. So now back to the Jenny Jones show, which is a little not period. No. So not at all. Like I said, he was a fan of Jenny Jones. He like to watch it and he was like, we all did. I mean, what the fuck else are you going to do?

Like, it's daytime television. Hello? And he was at home during the day. Yeah. So and this was at its peak peak daytime television, right. Yeah.

So a little bit before he he ends up writing into the Jenny Jones show about a secret crush. OK, but a little bit before he did that he was heading to his brother's apartment to like hang out or something for the day. And his friend Donna Riley also lived in the same complex. OK, so he like walks and they're not day. And he's like, oh, look, it's Donna. And he runs into her and she's like standing outside of her car.

And she had a friend working on her car. And he's like, Oh, who's this fella working on your car? Who was this tall drink of water? Exactly. Someone called John that once. And I get remember when he thought that was an insult, but it was an insult. John had never heard that being called a tall drink of water was an insult. It's like, why is that insulting? So why would that be insulting? I don't know.

Also, why would anybody say that was like, no, it means you're handsome. Like, look at this tall drink of water.

And then you're like, who said it to hydrating me? Hydrating me? It was an older gentleman. It was pretty wonderful. I loved it. That's whimsy. Yeah. I was like, I agree. Like, that's true. That's Womersley, right? So Donna's outside. She's got this tall drink of water working on her car. And Scott thought this guy was super cute, super good looking, and he was like, immediately interested.

Awesome. So who's this guy? Yeah, who is he? Jonathan Schmitt's. Jonathan, it's a really fun last name to Secretase. He was like 25, 26 at the time. And Scott didn't know if he was gay or not. Yeah.

So Donna was pretty sure he was in, but she was like I do remember Jonathan mentioning his family had questioned him on whether or not he was gay, OK, at one point. So she was like, I am not sure, like, yeah, he could be. Maybe he's bi. He hasn't come out to me, right? So he and like the reason his family had been asking him about it is because he had like multiple girlfriends. And actually, I think I think it was Billy Saryan who said or I read it somewhere that he was engaged at one point and it didn't work out OK.

So after meeting Jonathan and becoming, like, super interested, he just he really thought this guy was so cute.

And I'll get to that at some point, but it makes me sad. Oh, that hurts my heart. I know. So he sees that Jenny Jones secret crush thing and he's like, oh, my God, that's perfect.

So honestly, to me, it seems kind of just thought this was going to be like a super like cute and lighthearted way to have one thing to shoot his shot. Yeah.

And it's like I feel like that's something I would do. Like if I didn't if I wasn't dating Annie and like I was interested in her, I'd be like, oh my God. Like a secret crush. Like, I fucking love TV. Let's make it a big deal. Like what? And I want to be on TV like like let's make it like a limelight situation. Right. And I think Scott was kind of I feel like I kind of like, like resonate with him.

Like I'm like I get you I get where you're coming at a little extra to him. Yeah. Like he was ready for it. And he even his brother said he was like, I think you just wanted to be on TV. Like the whole thing would be fun.

And again, it's just a fun way to shoot your shot. Right.

So I don't think he thought anything bad would come of it other than like maybe Jonathan not having mutual feelings and then maybe they could just be like, well, you know, like tried.

And it seems like Scott was the kind of guy who would just be like, oh, I gave it a shot, like we tried. So the show was set to tape on May 6th, 1995. Scott and Donna Donna actually went with him, Donna, they flew to Chicago where the show was taped. They flew together and Donna was like kind of his wing woman for the trip, which I loved. I love that daughter. Like, you're the cutest.

And Jonathan obviously didn't know that they were going. So he is going separately because he has no idea that, like, it's it's Scott that's interested in him. Oh, man. So they all fly out to Chicago separately, except for you get it. They fly out there. You got it. You know who's with you? They're all using air travel appropriately to get there, which also I think of flight. They lived in Michigan and the show was in Chicago.

I'm pretty sure that flight is like half an hour. Yeah, I was going to say that doesn't seem it's like a Boston to New York.

Yeah, but so all the producers apparently had told Jonathan before he flew out that the premise of the show was that someone had a crush on him and it would be revealed on the show, on the show.

I don't really know what happened. Sorry, I just stopped recording to give us a moment to collect her vocal chords off the floor. Are you good sense you smoke a pack a day, but yeah, I don't. So OK. On the show. Not on the show. OK, get it together. That's like the really metal version of the show on the show. OK, ok. All right. Back. Oh so they were like yep.

Somebody has a crush on you. It's going to be real on the show. And I think like I said before, Jonathan was engaged before.

So I think it was Bellisario who said it and I wish I remembered. But either way, he thought that it was going to be his fiancee. Oh. So he was like, OK, like, I'll go on the show and on the show they'll be there and yada, yada, yada.

OK, that makes sense. So it's the day of filming. Jenny Jones opens up and Scott and Donna are sitting there on the stage and Jenny Jones is explaining who Scott is to the audience and like what his secret crushes. So she's like, Scott, explain what Jonathan looks like and tell us why you're so interested.

You know, like, what's up? Like, why are you here?

So basically, Scott is just like I think this dude is super cute. Like, he got a little, like, intense with it.

Like, I forget I don't have a direct quote of what he said, but he basically was just like, I think he's really hot. Yeah. And then she was like, I know you also have this kind of, like, fantasy about him. Like, can you tell us what that is? And Scott was like, Yeah, bitch.

So he didn't say, yeah, but he was like basically it was along the lines of like, I have a hammock in my yard and like I would get some champagne and some strawberries and whipped cream and like maybe it involved, like tying somebody up.

Oh, at first I was like, that's so pure and let it go. Yeah. Like the hammock. I was like, adorable, so cute. I mean, it's all still adorable. I was going to say, that's still great. You just especially I mean with a willing consenting partner there it is adorable. Great date. I get it. He had a fucking plan, honestly. Good job, Scott. Good job, Scott. He was ready and willing.

So, yeah, that's what the fantasy involved. And obviously there's a sexual connotation behind that. Yeah. And I, I think, like Scott was kind of joking at the same time, like, well he was he was probably just like playing it up, like you're going to be like we've all done that with a crush, like we're all just like, oh my God, the things I would what I would do, we're interested right now.

Like, it's going to be crazy you're playing you up to because you're on TV. So on the Jenny Jones show, you've got to bring the salt. Yeah. You can't just go on there and be like I think they're very nice person.

I think I would like to take him to dinner and pay for the chicken. Attractive, right, like Jenny Jones would be like, you need to give me some. She's like, So do you want to fuck her? Like, let's get it. Let's talk about the real issue.

So while all this is happening, Jonathan is backstage and he has headphones. And so he just not going to hear anything. They don't want to spoil the secret of who the crushes, even though he thinks he knows.

Well, Jenny then is like, well, let's bring Jonathan out. So Jonathan walks out and he's like grinning. And he's like, you can tell he's a little surprised, but he's he doesn't look like sugar, like angry or nothing. And I think when he walked out at first, he thought it might have been Donna who got the secret because it gives her a hug and they all know each other. Yeah. So he gives her a hug and a kiss on the cheek.

And then as he's about to kind of go give Scott a hug or sit down, Jenny Jones is like, so did you know it was Scott with the crush on you?

Like it's Scott, it's not Donna. And he's like, oh, and you can tell he gets like slightly uncomfortable and they they still give each other a hug.

But it is a little bit of a you can see a shift in like the like sphere, a little bit of the slightest shift.

It's nothing like almost like indiscernible. Right. Like if we weren't talking about this case, it would have just been like, wow, that guy handled that so well even though like fuck off it's nothing exactly. But like, he he wasn't he didn't make it weird. Right.

He didn't make it weird. He's like sort of nervously laughing but looks normal otherwise. And then Jenny Jones is like, oh, excuse me. Before I say what she said, when he sits down he looks at because he's sitting right next to Scott. Scott is in the middle, then Jonathan and then on the other side, Donna, OK. And when he sits down, he looks at them and he goes, You guys lied to me. And he says it laughing but he says it laughing.

So I couldn't find, like, what exactly that meant.

Hmm. Now I feel like you have like, what do you think? I'm just think I just whenever somebody says something like that, like you lied to me is never like I think that's really funny.

That's going to be like, oh, you lied to me.

You lied to me. And I'm real pissed about it. But we're on TV right now. So I'm going to say you lied to me. Yeah. It's like one of those like I'm going to fuck you up, but like, I'm going to pretend it's fine right now. Mean me. That's how I would immediately take that. I get that. I also came up with this idea in my head just to kind of explain the whole thing.

I was like, I because remember, he lived in the same apartment complex as Donna and Scott's brother lived there, too. Oh.

So part of me kind of wonders if they, like, ran into each other with luggage and that he was like, oh, where are you going?

And they said something else. I forgot that they lived in the same apartment complex. So that makes sense. But also your thing makes sense to it all. Kind of makes sense. I think maybe it was a combination of both because he could have been like, oh, you lied to me about where you were going like that. This was all going to be happening. Like you lied to me about everything. And I'm annoyed, like I'm real annoyed right now.

So it gets better. But then you wonder too. Maybe they maybe they let or Donna maybe or someone let him believe that it was it was say or like. Yeah. Pushed to that narrative slightly maybe like didn't dispel it if he brought it up that's a good idea. And maybe he was excited about that and then. Yes. Disappointed. Yeah. There's a lot of possibilities and there is, we don't really know unfortunately. Yeah. So he, he sits down, he says that and then, then Jenny kind of is obviously it's her fucking daytime television talk show that she's trying to get the ratings ratings.

Exactly.

And she's like, oh well like let's play back the tape so that Jonathan can hear about the fucking sexual fantasy that Scott has about him.

And Scott's like, OK, he seems fine with it.

And Jonathan is, I hate to say, a good sport about it because it's like there's nothing wrong with being gay, obviously.

No, at all.

But but honestly, male or female, it's like if it's like gay, straight by whatever it is, I feel like it's a shared situation regardless. Right. So I think I'm just not you know, being a good sport means just like him being a good sport about being told on national television about something like this.

I just wanted to say what I meant. Yeah, it's clear. Yeah. So make it clear. Yeah. So he's he's a good sport about it. He like sits through the fantasy and then Jenny's like, so why. Because that would be uncomfortable for anybody. Yeah. And I mean it's slightly embarrassing and I'm going to get to that a little bit for sure.

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I'm on level two, 12 wholly. I'm in hell. I still haven't cracked the 200 yet. Girl, I know I'm still in the upper one hundredths. OK, whatever. Well, I'm close. I'm going to get there. You do have like 85 kids to give me a minute and I'll get that. Well, let me tell you, things do get harder as you go. You do, but you definitely get a feel for which fiends to use in certain situations and how to use them.

Bomb fiends, I've told you guys are typically the best because they can get so much out of the way. Bomb fins of the bomb, the bomb convertor fiends.

I feel like they're like the like one step below the MVP's.

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What he's like, oh, like, that's flattering, and she's like, so are you single and he's like, I am. But he says right on the show he's like, I am single, I'm available, but I am 100 percent heterosexual. OK, like, I am not gay. And it kind of seems like you can't watch the entire thing. So I've just seen bits and pieces and that's what you see. And I don't know how it ends or anything like that.

But I do know it is frustrating, but I do know that they all hung out together afterwards.

So it's not like it was this big bomb drop of like.

No, I mean, I'm sure it was a bomb dropped slightly, but yeah, it seemed like he kind of got over it and then they all went to dinner together and had drinks and flew back home together because it's also like, sure, this this is a little on a different level because he brought him on TV to do it.

Right. But it's like we've all I think a lot of people have had this kind of situation where, like, either you. Yeah.

Think someone's you have a crush on someone, you tell them or you have someone else tell them. They're like, I don't feel the same way. Right. You either. That's it. And you just kind of fade apart. Right. You just like whatever one of my best friends, Jeff, USINDO you like I had a crush on Jeff and Jeff was like, yeah. Like I don't like you, so. Yeah. And not like that.

He was just like, I don't like you romantically. Yeah. And it didn't work out, but we're still friends and I was still friends with my face just turned red. Did you see that.

Yeah but well we like hang out from time to time and we're like oh I remember when I like professed that I liked you and he was like, yeah, but you can be cool about, you can get totally moved past it and it just becomes a funny part of your relationship history.

I can feel how red my faces. I feel like I'm like it's a big deal for everyone. I'm picturing all these people listening to this and my unrequited feelings. I'm totally kidding. But it's true.

It's like you can really you can move past it and be totally fine.

So it makes sense that they were like, oh, whatever. That's weird. That was a crazy story that we can tell later for a little while.

And it's like, why didn't just why don't you just keep going with that? Right.

So it didn't take long for them to not keep going with that. Three days after the show taped, Jonathan was returning home and he was either returning home or leaving.

And he found a note taped to his door and it said something.

It was alongside some kind of like construction light or equipment. And it said something along the lines of, quote, You have the right tools to turn this on, which I think is fucking hilarious. If I got that note, I'd be like, that's great. Like what? But he knew that it was from Scott and he was like, I'm not gay. Like, yeah, I'm not interested. And he I don't want to say he snapped because I was like, get it together.

You're like, but he in a way snapped and he decided something snapped in him. Right. Yeah. He decided right. That in there that he was going to kill Scott. Dude, it's that is like a big fucking jump to come on like just go to like just be like, you know what, I'm not interested. Please stop. Yeah. And if he doesn't stop, like, go from there. But it's not OK to kill anybody for any fucking reason.

No. You have to sit down with him and be like that, like lay out your boundaries. You can either be friends but if you can't handle that then we need to not hang out. Exactly.

You need communication. This is called being a mature adult with Elaina now. Exactly. Oh, that's not at all. Would have give it a try, man. I think the big problem here was that Jonathan was pissed off that Scott put him on the show. Yeah. That he was going to be potentially, even though he said on the show like I'm 100 percent heterosexual. I think he was very nervous about what people were going to think of him.

Yeah. And especially his family, which I'm going to get into later. Oh, I'm sure that several in it. Like I said, he makes the decision right there. He's fucking enraged and he drives right to the bank to take out money, then drives to the store to get a gun.

And I'm pretty sure he drove to a separate store to get ammunition. Oh, and then he immediately drives to Scott's home. He sits outside of Scott's place for a while, which like right then in there, that's fucking premeditation. You could have seen this whole trip along the way there. You could have stopped it. Oh, he made several stops to plan this whole thing. Exactly. So hello plan. Hello.

He knocks on the door and confronts Scott. And I'm pretty sure, based on a few of the articles that I read the first time he went to the door, he did not have the gun, OK? And then, like, the conversation got heated and he goes back to the car and he grabs the gun. Obviously, he opens the screen door with the tip of and it was a 12 gauge bucchi shotgun.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, that is like a 12 gauge Bucchi shotgun. That's that's intending to do a lot of damage, a lot of damage. Scott yelled to his roommate, Gary, that Jonathan had a gun like basically like help me. And it was already too late because Jonathan. Pulled the trigger twice and fired two shots directly into Scott's chest at like super close range. Oh, my God.

So close range that people are waiting from. One of the shells was found in Scott's heart and then a fragment from the other shell was found in his left lung.

So, like, insanely close. Wow.

There was also evidence that Scott had held up a chair to try and defend himself, which is that's going to come back later.

Oh, that makes me so sad. So Jonathan immediately flee the scene, fled, fled the scene and started driving toward his sister's house. She lives, like, close by, I guess. And he stopped at a gas station to use the pay phone and called 911 and turned himself in. Wow. Yeah. And he told the operator he's like, obviously, I just shot a man. And the operator was like, why did you do that?

Like, why? I think she was just shocked. And he said to the operator, this is the guy that I shot, played a really awful trick on me. Oh, so so that did a lot of the actual trick of, like getting him on the show seems to be it was it was in his psyche. That's a big trigger. Right. So Scott's roommate, Gary, had also called the police and an ambulance came as well.

But it was already too late. Scott was pronounced dead and they found the chair he tried to defend. He tried to use to defend himself, knocked over not far from where he was laying.

So this judge didn't need to happen?

No. So I know all murder is senseless. You know, like but like this is especially so senseless. Really tough case communication. Yeah.

Breakdown from the jump when it's just like it's it goes to show how like how differently people think to one person. It might just be super light hearted, good fun. Like everybody has a different definition of lighthearted and that's like pranks, especially pranks.

Some people think it's fun.

Some people in some people have it from like childhood where they got teased or something. And it's a huge trigger for them. I think you like our family is big on teasing and sometimes it can go too far. And yeah, I think you and I especially we don't like to be all of a sudden you can see like on both of our eyes when Ash has hit her like it's not funny anymore and same with you and it just shoots right over you and it even reaches you.

Right. You're suddenly like, all right, fuck off, everybody, shut up.

I'm obviously neither of us has ever gotten violent with our family, but it does kind of like flick this switch in your head where you're like you want to slam your fist on a table or like and that's why those shows like the Jenny Jones show and all these shows that like television people, that's so dangerous.

And I'm not saying it's their fault.

Right. You know, like directly or anything, but like, I think that these kind of shows should have a lot more like psych like psychologists being involved in this and being like this isn't a good idea. Well, isn't that something that's going to end?

Well, 100 percent of the time and that's a big part of this case, is that we're going to get into that because the psychology is just overlooked. Here it is. Everyone does not find being ambushed or surprised. Fun, right. That's not everybody's idea of like you be surprised at all. And honestly, I. I wouldn't want to and I know I said earlier, like, I would think that was fun, but I wouldn't want to actually be on the receiving end if I didn't have those feelings.

Exactly. Because it's like either way, you kind of look like an asshole to some people. You don't have those feelings.

And it's it's like a feeling out.

If you think of, like catfish, that's completely different because, like, that person has been catfish somebody. Yeah, but think of how embarrassed those people are. And that's the thing, the levels that they go to. Exactly. And it's like how embarrassed they can be.

So, yeah, it's all it's just you got to I think those shows I mean, it was a time when we weren't probably thinking too hard into the actual, you know, things, psychological effects.

Yeah. So I think it's just now we think a little more about those things. The 90s, the nineties, am I right?

So Jonathan was taken into custody and he admitted everything to the police, even telling them that once he found the note right then in there, that's when he decided to kill Scott.

So he told them everything that's like right here it is. It's strange.

This is a very interesting case. Very strange.

He went to trial in 1996 and obviously he was up for first degree murder.

The defense had a few tricks up their sleeve, though, so they they used the good old gay panic defense, the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard.

I think it's an absolute drug.

I don't understand how it's still a thing because it still is in most states, obviously.

In fact, we we laid out in the if you listen to the Matthew Shepard, I think it was part two until you talked about Westhill. Still, I think I laid out each state where it's where it's pending. I was going to say it's being worked on to go to be thrown out. If you listen to that episode, you'll hear how many states still have it, how many don't, how many are pending to get it off the books.

And this was right around the same time. But like I said, 1996, because Massachusetts is in the process of getting it's still pending. Right. So they use the case, the gay panic defence. They also argued that Jonathan was mentally ill and he suffered from manic depression and Grave's disease. Oh, OK.

So I didn't know what Grave's disease was actually Centaurus, so I looked it up. You looked it up.

And according to the National Institute, the Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases, Grave's Disease is, quote, an autoimmune disorder that causes hyperthyroid thyroid ism. Yes. Or overactive thyroid. Your immune system attacks the thyroid and causes it to make more thyroid hormone than your body needs.

The thyroid is a small butterfly shaped glynne in the front of your neck.

So, yeah, sure is. And also make your eyes bulge. That's a sign of graves'. I didn't know that. So the defense argued that some of the side effects of Grave's disease and this is true are irritability and irrational, sometimes violent behavior. Which is true. Yeah. Essentially, what they were saying was that their client was homophobic. Yes, so he freaked out and panicked when Scott admitted the crush on this ambushed TV show and the note was what pushed him over the edge.

And the Graves disease helped along the way because it helped him, too. It just helped fuel the already the already there's thoughts that he was having, naturally. So I hate to even use this, but the perfect storm. Yes.

When it was because by no means is anyone saying grave disease makes you dangerous. No one actually said actually.

I'm going to talk about that later. OK, good.

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The prosecution argued that Jonathan could have stopped at any point along the way to Scott's house. He definitely stopped before he went to the bank while he was on the way to get the gun, the ammunition, while he was sitting outside. And he was pretty much sitting outside, I'm sure, contemplating what he was going to do. Yeah. So like I said that right then and there is. Yeah. Premeditation. A lot of times he could have stopped.

So there were some issues in the case. There were two confessions made by Jonathan. Like I said, he told them everything. There was a videotaped one in a regular oral one. But the judge would not allow them to be used in the trial because one was made before Jonathan was read his Miranda.

Oh, I knew they were going to say that they didn't. Miranda ransom note, which is I'm like, isn't that the it is the first thing you should be like.

But oftentimes have you seen cops. Oh, God.

And then the other one was made before he had been given a right to counsel. So it's so, so part of the Miranda.

Right. Exactly. So it all had to do with Miranda rights.

Then there was the issue of the overturned chair because you kind of had to go one way versus the other. The prosecution tried to say that the chair had been used in a completely different matter. That's what you're going to say excuse me, manner to throw at Jonathan. And that's when things got heated. Mm hmm. And really, how are you going to argue that?

I mean, nobody knows except the two people that were standing there and Gary was there and I the roommate. But I don't know if he was able to testify or like what the deal was. But, yeah, I couldn't. I'm sorry. Find too much about it. Yeah, sometimes you can't. They really just can't.

But and basically they were saying that could have set him off and like that's when he went and got the gun.

So I mean every any time someone throws a chair, you it's definitely a good idea to grab a shotgun and pump two shells into them. Yeah, it's definitely not. I believe guys that yeah. That does it still it's still not good to not do it, but I think they were saying like, well they both got fired. Yeah. Of course lawyers have to make their case something.

Do they got to do their job. So multiple people testified at the trial and some of them this is interesting. Some of them actually said that they thought that Scott and Jonathan had slept together. Oh, so I don't know. Jonathan's father testified. Now, Jonathan's father, I saw that first testified and kind of gave Essence to the home that Jonathan was brought up in when he was younger. Oh, his father was definitely homophobic.

There's literally no other way to put it. It makes sense that he would raise a homophobic son. And if you think back to I said Donna Riley had said that Jonathan told her his family had questioned if he was gay in the past. So clearly it was not an acceptable good thing to be gay in this family. OK? And he also at one point, he was he was being cross-examined. And while he was on the stand, he asked one of the lawyers in in response to a question, well, how would you feel if someone thought you were gay?

And I don't think the lawyer's going to be like, you know what, sir, you're totally right.

I'd be homicidal. I would shoot someone like you, Elliot.

Are you kidding me? OK, like you feel if someone thought you were gay. Like what? Like, I be like, well, you're I'm not on the stand, so fuck off. No. And I be like, what kind of fucking questions. Right. Like giving credence to you should kill someone if they think you're gay. Like what exactly.

So that happened. So I think that kind of gave, like I said, a lot of insight to people about where.

Yeah. Where Jonathan came from for sure. And it kind of seemed like the jurors had a soft spot for him. And if you see him, too, I think that's another thing. He was like this like young guy. He kind of looked like somebody that would be like on TV. And one of the he would be like the heartthrob in teenage show. Yeah.

And like, you could see why Scott really douga yeah.

You could see why Scott Dugin and you could I guess see why these jurors felt bad. I guess. I don't it's human nature is a weird thing. It is. It's like the Diane Downs thing.

It is. Well and they couldn't look at him and think of him as this evil monster. In fact one of them was like, I feel like he would be like my son or like my friend. Yeah. And I couldn't get that out of my head. And honestly, his counsel probably played that up and oh, I had like a certain graphics shirt, sweatshirt things. Yeah. So and they also couldn't get over the fact that if it were not for the Jenny Jones show, this situation probably never would have happened.

I mean and yeah, I, I think if I was on that jury, I would think the exact same thing I honestly might do because it's like I don't know if Scott would have gone, you know, if anything he would have just told him how he felt and he wouldn't have felt, you know, that he had to answer in front of the world. And also. Well, that's the thing. It wouldn't have been a national. Yeah, it would have just been like a conversation between two people and maybe his family and friends when they found out.

And it would have been and who knows if Jonathan felt the same way and just felt like he couldn't say it in front of the world. And then he felt pissed that Scott did it in front of. The whole world, so he couldn't answer him when he wanted to. Again, this is just speculating totally, but it's all very valid speculation. So and obviously does not none of it. And it's like it doesn't kill someone and none of it condones his actions.

We're just trying to I think we always try and understand understand the psyche. And it goes back to the show, the ambush. Right.

The ambush way that they were doing things and the jurors couldn't get that out of their head. So they convicted Jonathan of second degree murder. And because he did murder somebody at the end of the day. Yeah.

So they convicted him of second degree murder and the judge sentenced him to a minimum of 25 years to a max of 50 years.

Wow. And the judge looked at him and told him he had three days to stop himself after the show and deal with what had happened and then said the sentence will rob you of your youth, not your life. Wow. Which it's like you robbed somebody of their life. But I'm not going to do the same thing to you. So Jonathan's lawyer urged him to sue the show after this or at least think about it and to use all his appeals.

And he did end up appealing his sentence in 1998. His case was overturned and he was retried. But the see, he got the same verdict, Simpson, because I was like, if they reduced that, I was going to be pissed. Yeah, I was going to be pissed to the immediate family was also not happy at the end of the day. Yeah, that's Scott's family. In fact, Scott's brother, Frank, basically put it like our family lost their son and brother and so did Jonathan's family.

And both of the families agreed this would not have happened if it weren't for the Jenny Jones show. They both it seemed like everybody was in agreement.

And it's like and it's not Scott is not this shouldn't be the one to have to figure out that the psychology behind all this, it's like the show should have known Ryan should have had people to determine this exact you know, it's not Scott Scott being like it's it's not Scott's fault. And it's I don't want to say it's not Jonathan's fault, but I think they were both put in a position where they didn't think about the outcomes, because I think other I think people with more knowledge should have stopped this.

Right?

People who are. Have have a have a platform and should be more responsible with their platform. Yeah, I guess as a way to put that also gross noise. That's weird. This is a very weird case.

It is weird because it's like you also can't put all the blame on the Jenny Jones show. No, you can't. Some of it does. He donnison made a choice, a decision to murder someone. Right. But I no reason at all. Right. And I think it's very easy to kind of go back and forth with. I went back and forth with how I felt the entire time researching this, and I'm still back and forth about how I feel.

Yeah, I think what really runs the vein that runs through all of this is homophobia for sure. And the phobia deafen. And it's either like internalized like self-hatred, which or it's just learned behavior that was taught to him.

I think it was a little bit of both. Yeah. So like I said, both families were not happy. They had both lost their child or brother or, you know. So in 1999, the Amidror family sued the Jenny Jones Jenny Jones show in a wrongful death suit. Yeah. Jenny Jones herself, who she had previously put out a statement saying she wanted she literally was like, I just want to clear some things up, which it's like, oh, maybe don't start, you know, like somebody is dead.

Don't do that. She claimed no responsibility. Like she claimed that the show is not responsible at all. OK, Jenny. Yeah, it's fucking bullshit. OK, Jenny ends up getting fucked over real hard.

Cool. Jenny.

She went on the show as well as the producers from the show, and they admitted that they didn't know or ask about Jonathan's mental health at the time of the show or before the show.

Yeah, that's that's a problem right then. And their problem is negligent. They also testified that they told him his secret crush could be a man or a woman, but they did agree that he was maybe led to believe that it was a woman.

Oh, come on. Right. Come on, guys. So you didn't pull the trigger, but that's that's some culpability there. You didn't pull the trigger, but you. Yelps Yeah. You pushed some things along here. So the attorney that was hired by the amateur family is intense as fuck. It's Jerry Feiger. Do you know, I've heard that he's so intense. He if if this happened in our family, he would be the dude that I want to hire.

He went balls to the wall. Good. He had Jenny on this on the stand and he went to town on her, like in the cross-examination before when it was like the defense or when it was not the family. Their lawyer. Yeah. I'm so bad about prosecution.

Yes. Thank you. The prosecution, she she did really well on the stand. But once Jerry Figler got her, she fucking crumbled. Good.

So he basically went after her and asked her questions about the advertising for her show. He argued that she wanted to be like Oprah in the beginning. But then when she realized that ambush television was where the money was at, that's what she got into him. He also asked her about whether or not the guests were prepared for the show. And like other questions about how the show worked when it came to guests and getting them on the show. Yeah, basically asking, is there some kind of process where you make sure that they're mentally capable, them properly?

And she didn't have an answer because they didn't. Right. And he argued, how can you claim no responsibility when you don't even know what's going on behind the scenes of your own show? Yeah, like, it's ridiculous. And she actually had written a book where she talked about the murder and everything in the book. She claimed no responsibility.

And it's like you can't so shady.

You can't claim no responsibility when you have no idea your name is on this.

I would want to know every fucking in and out of that show if my name, like I know every in and out of morbid, you know, our names are all you need to know what's going on.

Like, obviously very different situations, but especially on that level.

Yeah, it's the same thing. Like when we were you know, the Facebook group is on its way out because our name is attached to. Right. And if we can't vet every single person that gets into that group and what their opinions are and what they're going to say exactly, we don't want it attached. I don't want to be associated to that. So you remove your you have to take care of that shit. That's your that's your name.

That's your name. So you got the decision was made by the jury at the end of the trial that the Jenny Jones show, Warner Brothers, who produced the show and Telepictures Productions were to pay the Amedure family 25 to twenty nine million dollars in damages. Wow. I read 25 in some places and 29 others. The family never saw a dime of that money. That's fuck never saw a dime. And the Jenny Jones show appealed multiple times. That is shady.

In 2002, the Michigan State Court threw out the original jury ruling of the money awarded to the amateur family, stating that the show had no legal responsibility to protect a guest on the show after it aired.

That's. Yeah, and that's not even. And it's like. But. You had it, you had you had to protect them while they were there and you didn't. Yeah, exactly. Jenny Jones said that she was, quote, elated by the decision. Oh, good. And then went on to say Scott Omidyar's murder was a horrible tragedy. But I have always believed that it was fundamentally wrong and unfair, unfair to blame the show. I am thrilled that the Court of Appeals agreed that the show could not possibly have predicted and prevented this brutal crime.

OK, sure, you can't predict it? Not by any stretch.

We're not calling you a witch by bike, but by bringing people off the street who you know nothing about.

You have a responsibility to learn a damn thing about them or their mental health before bringing them on and doing something that would stress out somebody without any mental health issues. That that's your fault. Exactly.

And actually, I think I said I was going to get into that later when we were talking about how he felt and like how it would be awkward to have anybody profess their sexual feelings toward you in front of a lot of people.

I'm not entirely sure exactly who it was, but one of the lawyers who was cross examining somebody on trial was like, how would you like why don't I ask you about you and your wife? Like a sexual fantasy, like between you and your wife. And the guy was like, no, I'm not fucking talking about that. That's very same point. Proven. Exactly. You don't want to talk about it. Exactly.

So the Jenny Jones show was canceled in 2003, finally too late when its ratings basically plummeted. Good. And as for Jonathan Schmitz, he was let out of prison on good behavior in twenty seventeen. He was 47 and he had served 22 years of his sentence. Wow. Yeah. Scott's brother, Frank, who actually suffers from Grave's disease himself and said it never made him violent. No, of course not. Said that he hoped Jonathan is actually sorry.

He hopes that he received psychiatric treatment while he was in jail and he hopes that he's not homophobic anymore. Wow. So. Whoo hoo! That's a tough, tough one case, and I think if you want to watch I watched this show on Netflix. It's called Trial by Media. This is the first episode. And Frank Ammeter, the Scott's brother, talks a lot. He's like the primary one being interviewed. Yeah.

And he was literally right outside of Scott's home the day his body was taken away. And like he he talks a lot about the experience of them growing up together. And it's just senseless who he was and and how he feels about Jonathan now.

So and it's just and the thing that, like, sits at the heart of it is just homophobia. Homophobia. That's really that's really, really, really unfortunate, because the end result of that, it's and it's just so sad that I mean, it's sad that both families lost somebody.

Yeah. And it's and it really pisses me off that Jenny Jones could have come out and she could have been like, we need to do better. We need to we need to fix this. And this was we did not think this through.

We were not we we were negligent.

We would have been like, wow. And people because all people want I mean, this is a very large mistake.

Yeah. But when mistakes happen, you got to own up to it.

Well, one turned it around and make something come out of it. Try to fix it, try to go.

You know what I right. This this happened and we're going to try where we might not succeed, but we're going to give it a shot.

Right. Because because it's my responsibility now to do that. But she then instead she's like she was like, I have nothing to do with that. And it's like, you asshole, your name is all over that table. And that's the other thing. It's negligent. That's the whole thing. They were trying to argue. And I hope I mean, they did argue when in the original sentencing, but the show was negligent and they did this negligence.

Jenny Jones herself was negligent as fuck. She didn't know what was happening on her own show. Yeah, you can't have people coming onto the show and being ambushed for anything if you don't know. I mean, you could that could have triggered him the second he walked out on the on the stage if he was mentally unstable, think about anything. Could have lights could have triggered someone. Yeah. Was can trigger like you don't know anything about this person.

Well think about like even like the Maury Show in the Jerry Springer Show. Like people get into fistfights and things like like and I mean I'm assuming now things are much different and you kind of I'm sure they have to sign a waiver upon waiver. Yeah. They're hopefully their psychology is locked in.

I'm sure it's like, you know, I'm sure lot stage and all that. But like back then it wasn't it was not at all. It was all like, let's just terrify this person. Let's just get paid for it. And then they put Scott in a position where it was like, yeah, this is all fun and everybody's going to think this is fun because you think it's fun. And it's like, so what was he to do? Right.

It was just fun. And he was a fan of the show he'd watched in the past. I'm sure he was a fan of Jenny Jones. He probably saw that everything ended up fine with everybody else.

Right.

So, I mean, Jonathan's a murderer straight up black and white is what it is, a dangerous human being. Right.

He is obviously mentally unstable in some way.

And well, like Frank's brother said, excuse me, Scott's brother Frank said, I hope he did get psychiatric treatment and while he was in jail. Yeah, I mean, I hope he did, too, especially because he's out. I mean, the whole point of jail is to rehabilitate. Exactly. So let's hope. And because he was by no means at fault for anything, he didn't do anything wrong at all.

I really think all the response I think it's like I don't want to say 50/50 because it's not 50/50, but all the responsibility falls on the Jenny Jones show. And Jonathan Jonathan, I don't know in what percentages, but I feel like it goes meld together.

I've been looking at this case for weeks and that's my final conclusion and that's how I feel. So if you want to go watch that show, definitely watch that Netflix show. That's interest. There's like shit tons of articles about this. You can watch the Court TV like things obsequiousness and watch Meely Syrians videos because they're so good.

They are. She's great. And thank you to everybody who told us to watch her. Yeah, because she's great. Yeah. Wow. That was a crazy one. It was. That's nuts. And share your thoughts nicely and respectfully. Thank you. When we post this and because some people might not agree and that's fine. Like what the what our thoughts are. Well that's that's like that's part of the fun of doing that. Just remember, be nice, be respectful about it.

Leave the snark at home. Opinions are not wrong. Have nice debates if you want. We're going to stay out of it, but we're going to let you guys talk about it.

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And then somebody finds you and you're like, oh my God, I'm so good at comedy. And then you become a comedian and you're like, oh my God, I'm going to have my own TV show, but I'm not going to look into any of the mental stability of the people that I'm going to have on the show and I'm going to ambush the fuck out of them. And then it's going to turn out really badly and I'm going to claim no responsibility.

Keep it that we. I checked.