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Hey, Weirdo's Emelina, I'm and this is part two of Ashe's morbid, which is going to be a three pada. That's insane. It's crazy.


This case is nuts. This case is bananas. In fact, I was texting Allena this morning and I was like, this is going to be a three part hour.


And she was like, are you sure? Like, I don't know, like, could it be a three part? And I was like, girl.


Yeah. Let me tell you, there's so much we don't know. There's so much there's a connection I'm not going to talk about in this part. So like spoiler alert, but there's a connection to Ben Rhodes in this case. It's crazy. It's just like a little small thing that I'll mention next week.


But Belliard Nana Robert Ben Rhodes keeps coming up in our like in daily discussions every once in a while recently. And you really know what that means. Is he dead? Oh, I don't remember. I don't know if he said shit, I need to look it up now.


I want to know if he's dead or not because, like, why is he popping up in our day to day lives? Yeah, I hope he's dead. I know. I, um. I hope he's not popping up on, like, a truck stop. Yeah. Like, where is he? I don't even think we're near a truck stop, guys.


He's still alive. Well, fuck me. He's 74 years old, but, you know, he's still he's rotting away in prison, so. OK, so that's fine.


So we good right now? What does it all mean? What does it all mean? Everybody. Has anyone else had rubber Ben Rhodes come up in their daily lives lately?


I bet you will now. You will. Sorry, sorry. Put it into the universe.


Well, other than making sure that he is not coming up in your day to day lives, I think we have a lot of business.


Yeah, I don't think we do either. I mean, the live shows, we're still in the same spot.


Definitely all happening next year. We're still working on some behind the scenes.


Yeah, we we have some fun, like virtual live shows that will be coming up soon. So keep an eye and ear out for that. We'll update you as we go. We do have some fun live shows next year. As long as everything goes according to plan that we're working on, as long as we can get rid of the COFCO, get rid of the Wrona. But, you know, we're all working together here.


We're doing it. We're doing the damn thing. But we have some fun stuff coming up. So I think that's really it.


All right. Well, do you remember Mel? Oh, I remember Mel Maldonado, Mel Nado.


And I believe when we left him, he was like running through the house with, like, a bottle of whiskey, was it? It was. I don't know if it was. I think I might have been whiskey. I think you're right. Was it. It was it was alcohol. And he was I regard it as whiskey. I don't know why. Yeah. I feel like I picture just a bottle of Jack, but no one mellow is probably something he couldn't afford.


So other than Jack and he was like, I don't know, a fancy drink whiskey.


But anyways, so they talked to Dr. Spaulding. They talked about this friends and her family, and then they had that interaction that they had with Mel, like they're talking about. And the police and the FBI.


Yeah, the FBI is involved now, of course, the FEBA is involved FBI. They were in agreement that they had their dude, but they did not realize how hard it was going to be to get Mel Ignarro like borderline impossible.


So they wanted to dive even deeper into his past and the FBI specifically so that they could kind of profile him and, yeah, figure out his deal. And let me tell you, we're going to talk more about his, like, profile in part three. Scary motherfucker.


Mel is no joke, no Jaziri joke. That sounded much luckier than I thought of Jesty joke.


I don't like that. All right. So Rose. So to dive into part two, they start talking to the women that Mel had previously been romantically involved with who I want to hear from them. Well, they had some shit to say. I'm shocked.


So Mel had actually been married before and he had three children, really two daughters at that one. And the son, obviously.


But I was like, what, like daughters? And this is how you treat women, like, real nice smell.


Okay, so he was married to this woman named Sharon. Her name is Sharon Kippin. And her and Mel. Her and Mel. I'm gross. She and Mel were married American, male and female. They were married in 1960 and they were actually married for thirteen years before they got separated.


Lucky number 13. Yeah, it was not so lucky. Well, maybe it was lucky that she got lucky for her to get out of there. Yeah. So they separated in 1973.


Sharon had a lot of shit to tell the investigators and the Fibi, the FBI about now.


Sharon SPIL that ti not only does she spillett, she's dumping glass after glass over their heads. Amazing. She said that Mel was very controlling, which we know he considered himself to be her superior, which I think we know.


And he made all of the decisions for the household. Oh, that's no good.


You got to be a team. You got to be a team is very important. It's an especially when you have children. I think it becomes it's always important. But then when you have kids, it becomes even more important because they need to see you as a unit. Exactly. We're not going to get anything passed either of these. Exactly. Are forcefield, no good cop, bad cop. And then it's like even a relationship in any way, especially when you're living together.


You got to be a team now, like when marriage makes it legal, that's when it got to be on the same team. Right. Or advice or else you're going to end up losing some shit. Just always be teammates. Just. No, just do it, it's fun, it's a it's a Lorde song, I think, team. Sure, OK. I think it is. I think you're right. Yeah, I don't I would sing it, but I actually if it isn't so, I'm pretty sure it is.


But that's way off base. So maximalism scary guy was he was super obsessed with what he looked like. He always needed a trendy haircut, which I'm like, you're ugly. So like I get why you wanted your hair to look better, but we're doing a good job.


Don't no. Like you're disgusting. He he was obsessed with like what his hair looked like, what he dressed like. He wore a diamond ring and he wore gold chains. If that's your thing, cool. But you're a murderer.


I was going to say if you're a murderer and you wear those things not good, it adds to the. Yeah, it's no good.


And I I'm sorry if you're a dude that wears a pinkie ring, but I just picture Mel with a pinky ring. Yeah.


I'm not a big pinkie ring person. If you are someone who wears one, like a preference is a preference, it's just a preference.


Yeah. So I'm like holding. Sorry you up here. My hand's cracking in the background. I'm like I'm like holding my pinkie like aggressively. She is.


So you definitely wear pinky ring he wore, he definitely wore a diamond ring and gold chains but so like what had shared in the kids wear because he was really obsessed with appearances. Right. Yeah. He's so fancy they must be to. No, no. You know where they got their clothes. Kmart.


Oh they watch like Kmart actually has some good stuff. I'm not a car you. But when he's out there at like Banana Republic in frickin other expensive places, Banana Republic is not an expensive place to shop.


I guess that was just a funny one for you to pull out of your butt. I don't know. I think that's just like what I associate rich people.


A very high end for the Obama White House black market. Is that another one? I think I'm actually just saying stores that used to be in a like place where I worked like a shop.


Oh, yeah. And that's where I like the rich people. And so I was like, I really like to the Banana Republic would sponsor us.


So which is it sad they had to get their clothes from Kmart and he's out there where all his nice shit. Yeah. And if Sharon ran into any issues where she needed more money, she had no choice but to ask Mel because he controlled all the finances.


And I couldn't find that he gave her an allowance. But that's basically what it sounded like because it seems if you need more money, you have to come to me. Right, exactly. So that's as far as I'm concerned, that's a fucking allowance. Yeah. And no, thank you. So Mel would punish her for different things like that.


Like if she asked for money, more money, she would get punished. If she was slightly late to something, she would get punished or you can't punish your spouse.


Let's just not you know, I don't even I think that goes without saying you're not my parent. Like, no, no. Like, thank you, though, like my parents weren't even good about. So, like, I don't know why you're trying, but Mel's idea of punishment was this is I'm actually going to give you a trigger warning because this is really fucked up. Oh, he forced her to have anal sex. Oh, sure. Yeah.


What the side was his. Her. Yeah, he absolutely literally raped her and sodomized her as a punishment for being late. Exactly. Sodomy was the punishment. Mel, literally go sit on a chainsaw.


Like that's insane. I'm going to give you honestly a trigger warning for the rest of the episode because it's so fucked up.


Wow. Sharon said that he wasn't.


I mean, I think she maybe had a different definition of violence because she said that he he was only violent with her twice and she meant hitting. Yeah, but I mean. Well, she was probably so brainwashed. Absolutely. It's just that's what it is. That's vile, isn't it? So Sharon said he hit her on two occasions in their marriage once he split her lip by hitting her Jesus. And then the other time he bruised her arm like really badly.


She was done toward the end of their marriage, obviously. Yeah. But when she asked Mel about getting a divorce and also I think she was like, you don't love me. Like, why are we married to each other? Like, can we just go?


But for Mel, it was her wanting to get out of it, which is rejection, which these fuckers don't like. Yeah, because it's out of their control. So Mel, like, turned around and threatened to complete suicide if she divorced him and then he, like, stopped showing up to family events and like, stopped having dinner with them and shit. Which they were probably like we didn't want to eat dinner with you anyways. I know. Honestly, I'd be like, this is better.


So thank you. So thank you very much. Thanks so much, Mel. So eventually he agreed to the divorce, thank God. And they were able to get divorced in 1973. Good.


But Mel did not go down without a fight. Of course not. And he got basically everything. He got full custody of the kids.


So he is raping her and beating her and something. This fucker gets full custody of children.


You obviously she must have been so scared of him that I think maybe this was the first time she had told anybody in law enforcement what had happened to her. Oh, it's awful.


But I think he and we'll see the way that he has such control and his victims that a lot of people do. It's so messed up. So not only did he got full custody of the children, he got their home and all the belongings in the home. He got alimony from her. He got to keep all of his personal accounts, which is I think that's rare for a divorce.


And he got to keep his car, which was like an expensive car.


People were like, what does he have on her? But she thought he got the kids, especially the kids, because remember, this was the 70s. And even now, it's pretty rare that a family gets custody. But in the 70s, that was like unheard of. Yeah. So people were like, what happened? Or like, what does he have on her?


And what he had on her was fear.


She was able to give a 12 page testimonial on what it was like being married to Mel, to the FBI. That's horrifying. Well, two pages and they that's like a horrific brief summary. Oh, so imagine what else was in there. Oh, man.


We've all probably been hanging at home more than we're used to these days.


And to be honest with you, I'm totally fine with that. Me too. I'm a homebody. Me too. I just got, like, a little boring, just like sitting on the couch watching TV, though, you know, I don't do that so well.


Sometimes I do. But you know what? We are always saying we got to change up our routine. But this time it's so that you can get closer to a murderer.


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Yeah, hunter killer. So after he got divorced, like maybe like the day after, it seems like he met this woman named Marian Shaw, OK, who is a fucking flaming twat whole I would hate her.


And you're going to, too. Oh, good. They met at I think it's called risk or low risk. Low score. And it sounds like Riscoe was like a HomeGoods kind of store, like they sold like lamps and like ceramic like like it sounds like HomeGoods. I love HomeGoods. But then once it was around for longer, I guess it mostly focused on furniture. OK, and it's pretty beside the point. It really doesn't matter because I was like awesome about a mountain.


But just, you know, I want you to. You're setting the scene. Yeah. Thank you. So act one.


No, just kidding. Mel and Marianne, they they both worked there and they hit it off.


But Mel told people that he didn't have any interest really in like dating Marianne or any respect for her. He was just using her for sex. OK, but he would write her notes that were like, what, you would expect a high school boyfriend to like sex to you? Like, he would write like weird, creepy things on notes. I don't have any direct notes, but they were like icky.


He was doing the thing that abusers do write, like, suck you in that way. Yes, exactly. They throw on the charm, throw on the charm.


And for her it it was like she was a very different woman than Brenda Shaffer. Like Brenda Shaffer was like gorgeous, classic, elegant, like the best. Yeah. Marianne was just Youko just so he was like, oh, I just have to send her like sexy notes to get her. Whereas like Brenda, like he had to get her like some nice stuff. He really had to. Now it's OK for me to say this about Marianne because she's horrible.


Yeah. You'll you'll agree. Yes. Just wait. So he was like, yeah, I just use her for sex. But Marianne was smitten with Mel.


Investigators kind of learned what the relationship was like and it was a little more serious than what Mel had given it credit for. They were dating. Oh, of course.


And while he dated Marianne, remember, he has the custody of kids. She would just, like, watch his kids while he was away on business trips because remember, he was like a traveling salesman. So he was gone for like six weeks at a time.


And this random lady would just be watching his children, watching his children. Yup. And she was honestly just there to have an adult there, I guess, because she didn't cook for the kids. The housework was up to them. And then as they got older, they started noticing that their personal belongings were missing from their rooms.


Because she's a thief, she is a thief on top of everything. Oh, she's just scum. She was so obviously she was stealing stuff from, like, the kids, which that's messed up as it is.


And then the investigators started to hear similar things from the people in Marion's life, not just the kids that lived with her. They heard she couldn't hold down a job. She was unreliable. She was manipulative. She actually once destroyed a typewriter at her job because she was, like, really pissed off about something. So she just decided that was a good idea. I got to get out of the typewriter and like, one of that typewriter due to you, nothing.


So like I said, Mel might have just been using her for, like sex and an in-house babysitter. But Marianne felt much more for him. Of course, she was basically like not just in love with him. She was obsessed with him. She would tell the kids that her and Mel were just waiting to get married until they were out of the house. So she was like, you need to get out of here so that I could marry your dad.


And actually, all of Mel's kids left when they were teenagers, so they left the house pretty early. I'm not shocked at all. Imagine the house that they were looking to get me the fuck out of here. Yeah.


So ultimately, the couple, the sweet, lovely couple broke up in 1984.


Oh, they did. They did. And then now after Brenda goes missing, the police showed up to talk to Marianne. They're like, I want more information on Mel. You seem crazy. Let's talk to you. Exactly.


And she's like, oh, I haven't heard from Mel since April. And at this point, remember, it was like Brenda went missing on the 24th of September. So it was like late September, early October when they took her.


And she's like, nope, I haven't even talked to him since April. Wrong. Oh, they also asked Marianne about what she and Mel sex life was together. And she was like she was pretty straightforward, like he wasn't into bondage or anything. He never laid a hand on me.


He was never violent or angry. He was great.


He was an angel, very vanilla. I almost had very vanilla bourbon, very vanilla. They did learn, though, that the breakup was not maybe it was amicable and Mel's eyes. But Marianne was just like following Mel everywhere he went.


Oh, OK. So very normal.


Donna, who's Mel's oldest daughter, remembered seeing Marianne from time to time, just sitting outside their house in her car watching them.


Oh, yeah. You don't do that to all your exes. No, just no. I mean, I did like maybe once or twice, but then I was like, I guess I got to stop doing this. I should probably stop. I got caught, that's all. My ex's daughter saw me. Otherwise you would have just kept doing it. Yeah, of course. Yeah, Donna saw me. Totally kidding. That's fucked up. Don't do that.


No. So at this point, the police wanted to do a formal interview with Mel because they're like, oh, OK. Like your ex-wife had a lot to say about you. Marion has, like, nothing bad to say about you, but Maryanne's shady a. Let's talk to you again in this time. This is like the first actual former formal interview so he can remember now he has an attorney. So he and Charlie Ricketts went down to the police station.


Charlie Ricketts, that's a pretty good name.


I feel like I have to say it like that. Also, Charlie Ricketts used to be like a reporter, so he's a very interesting attorney to have a seasoned reporter as well.


Yeah, good old Charlie Ricketts in the scoop. Not that there's anything wrong with reporters. I'm just saying he was a different kind of lawyer. No, you know what?


If you're a reporter and you're listening, I'm sorry, somebody some reporters are shitheads.


Sorry, sorry. The way it is. The way it is.


So they go down the police station and they're like, we're going to ask you some questions. So all the way there, Mel, is perfectly fine. While they were setting up, Mel was perfectly fine. Hmm. They hit that fucking tape recorder and started recording everything.


And Mel was like, oh, man. Hey, Meryl Streep, did he Meryl Streep on the show, like, let's give him an Oscar. Except, no, he became super emotional about Brenda's disappearance.


He was like sobbing. And the investigators were like, okay, we're going to pause this so you can calm down.


You OK? Calm down pretty quickly. Put the tears back on when they started back up again. But a little more composed this time, you know, does he have, like, little vapor drops, like in his pocket where you can just be like, no, I just start crying. I literally think he's just so psychopathic and terrifying that he can just like he can just tap into these things.


He needs what he needs. He can just. Oh, and there it is. SNAP.


It is a snap, but no snaps for Mel. No. So as he's being questioned and they're just asking him regular questions about Brenda, like, can you tell us again, what did you do that day?


Like, just regular shit.


He's fidgeting. He's moving his glasses on and off. He's tall and his creepy ass mustache.


And he is offering up suspects left and right, which that's always it's always weird, but it's always going to throw an antenna up into me.


It was these five people. Let me break out a list of people I think it could be. And he did. He said maybe it was Jim Rash, maybe because he has a drug problem. Did you know that you should you should look into his drug problem? Or maybe it was Charlie Van Pelt since he never got over that divorce from Brenda?


Never. Yeah, no. It had to have been him.


But you know what? On second thought, maybe it was Dr. Spaulding. You know, he's really upset about Brenda. I think there might have been more to their relationship.


I think, you know, so I know I'm sitting here right now, but I'm pretty upset. So I'm going to go and I. I just want you to have that information. Thank you. Thank you so much.


They all he also changed his story and he said which it wasn't like a huge change. But it's worth noting that he changed the story and he said that they actually hadn't gone to that housing development before. That was the weekend before Brenda disappeared.


And he just wanted to let them know in case they looked into that. Oh, because look how thorough I am and truthful and very honest. I actually reviewed my notes that I read from and I realized that was dated wrong. Wow.


We'll also find out that Mel Wright's shit down, like literally writes everything down, like everything, because he knows he's going to have to cover his shit all the time. And he's just a psychopath because he knows he does shit wrong all the time.


So he's like, I should probably always have my stuff covered. Exactly. So Tom Schaefer, Brenda's brother, remember we talked about he was the one that was married to Linda who was trying to help run to get out of this.


He agreed to meet Mel on multiple occasions, wearing a wire just to see if he could just I don't think they thought they were going to get anything like a confession, but they just needed more.


Yeah, like maybe like a slip up for anything else.


Yeah. Anything else. And they did. They got a few things. Oh. So Tom actually had gone out himself to where Brenda's car was found, like on the highway. He went out one Saturday night around the time that she was supposed to have last been seen. And he was like, I just don't buy that. She was kidnapped on this highway at like eleven thirty at night like on a Saturday. And if you think about even around here on a Saturday night at eleven thirty, the highway is still pretty bustling, like there's no traffic, but there's still plenty of cars going by.


Yeah. And he noticed on this particular highway there was plenty of cars going by. He was like somebody would have seen something. Yeah. So I think some somebody would have seen something strange.


Right, exactly. So he tells me all this one night when they're at the diner and he's Mel is like visibly shaken. He's like, you went out there like you were there. And he's like, well, yeah, like I went out there like last weekend. And he's like, oh, oh. I thought you meant like you were out there that specific Saturday.


And I was like, worried for you all.


Worried for you, worried for you. Oh, OK. Meanwhile, you just thought that he saw something. That's what I was hearing. Bill was like, no, you're dumb. I went out there afterwards to see what I could find.


So I don't know how Tom sat through these meetings with Mel and neither did the FBI. They were like, I don't know how you didn't just punch that dude in the face. He says so clearly the guy, so clearly the guy.


And also just the shit that he says it's. So aggravating, so one night they're sitting there together after and after telling Tom he just didn't know how he was going to live the rest of his life without Brenda. Oh, please.


Like you're talking to her brother. Yeah. You don't know how you're going to live your life. Like, what about her brother? And it's like we know you, man, right?


So after sitting there telling him that he pulls out a list out of his pocket and this list has Brenda's assets, all of her assets and everything they were worth, and he had everything written down. Tom was like stunned what she knew, how much everything he knew, the worth of literally everything, what she had in all her accounts, what she had and shared her jewelry for. He had totals for the furs that she had, like her fur coats.


She had a couple. And he also knew he also knew that she had been making payments on this grandfather clock that she really wanted. They had found it in like Tennessee and she, like, loved it. So she was making payments on it. He knew what that was worth. And he not only knew the values of everything, but he also knew who Brenda wanted everything to go to. Oh, like he was acting like this was a will, which.


Wow. Remember, Brenda disappeared out of nowhere. So this was not a will.


Wow. Yep. And of course, he was like, I just want to see everything go to who she would have wanted it to go to.


And Tom's like, yeah, she, we don't know that she's dead yet.


I was going to say they haven't even discovered that she's been killed yet and that's the problem.


So he's sitting there telling Tom, this is like I can not believe that my sister had been gone for a few weeks. And you're basically reading her wills. I mean, you've killed her like you've killed her, like, you know, figuratively. And remember, he had said to the older sister, I just know she's dead. And that's when Linda was like, oh, I just know that you did it then.


So it's like, either way, the last thing I'd be thinking of is assets. No, but obviously, like when you think of Meleager, like, of course he was thinking of the assets. So he tells he tells Tom, you know, she wanted the jewelry. And I think one of the first to go to me.


So if if we don't find her, I'm happy to take that from the life insurance.


Oh, you are. I'll take that off your hands. Oh, that's so nice.


Like, what's so helpful? What? And then as after he did all of that, he's like and by the way, I think Van Pelt has something to do with this. I think I think we were calling it Pete in the beginning. He went by Pete, not John. Yeah. He's like, I think the police need to be looking into him a lot more.


All of a sudden he's like, guys, I got the guy and it's like, OK, no.


And actually no, thank you. Charlie Van Pelt. They did look into him because they were like, you know, he was her ex-husband. Yeah. He actually had an alibi for the night Brenda went missing. He was working at the police department. So there's a lot of people there. It's pretty decent alibi. He was working there until close to midnight.


And then right after that, he went to his second job as a security guard where he worked until like six in the morning.


So he was literally covered the entire night, the entire night.


I mean, they didn't they weren't able to, like, make sure that he was like in his car. And there was no witnesses saying he was sitting in his like a security job car. But they're like, that's that's a pretty tight alibi. Yeah, it definitely is not. I mean, there's a few room for them. Yeah, there's definitely room.


But they were like, he's not our guy, but it's you know who I guess they checked out the alibi and time stamps checked out for Dr. Spaulding because Dr. Spaulding was like I was actually in Tennessee the night that Brenda went missing. I think his daughter was like in a horse show, like she was riding a horse or something, and he had stayed in a hotel there. So they got checked out completely. And then they checked into Jim Rash, the billboard sweetheart.


Yes, Jim, he was the only one who didn't have an airtight alibi. Oh, Jim, he had just been at home, but at least he was there to take that.


Remember, Bessie only got Essy called at like 4:00 in the morning. Oh, yeah. He was there to take that phone call. So it was like I feel like that would have been weird. And they were like, we just we know that our guys. Málaga Yeah. So they did keep Jim on the list as a potential suspect, but they really didn't think he had anything to do.


Yeah. I mean, it's good that they kept him on the list because if you can't like, you can't rule them down.


That alibi, it's like we can't say he wasn't. Exactly.


And also, I don't know if I mentioned number one, there was four jurisdictions on this case. So there's four separate police departments and the FBI. But I have to say, they didn't really fuck anything up.


It seemed like, wow, that's actually very rare.


Look, I think they did a I think because the FBI was brought in so early, maybe that's why maybe they were able to kind of cohesively get everybody together. Right. Usually when it's even just two jurisdictions, it's like it's so messed up. Yeah. We've seen how many times have we seen it?


A million times. But they did a good job.


So yada, yada, yada. Those all those people have alibis also. I'm just going to say this now because I don't really know where to fit this in later. Jim ends up dying.


No, I think he died like right before they found Brenda's body of he was like he had a lot of heart problems. Well, that's sad. And when he died, they actually took DNA from him and he was ruled out as a suspect. So he had absolutely nothing to do with this. Oh, that sucks, though, so sad. And I mean, he died like still being like a person of interest, at least a person of interest and not knowing he was in not knowing though in love.


Yeah. Like they remember they were going to start things back up again and not knowing if she was alive or not or if she was either going to be found.


He had no idea. Oh, that's really sad. And he had a member like Brenda was upset that he was a drinker. I think he was a drinker before. And then I think after she disappeared, he continued it and probably did so more.


Yeah, I'm sure that's sad. It is sad. So they go back to check on Brenda's car, which is now like has been processed as evidence, and they notice that her driver's seat was pushed out like super, super back, like somebody very tall, had been driving her car.


And remember, she was five three. Yeah. So they put somebody in the car that was exactly five three. She couldn't even reach the brake pedal, which she extends out more than the gas. Yes. Like, no, no, this does not work.


And then I don't know if you remember, the tire was flat on her car. So they found out that that had been caused by a nail.


But the nail had been previously either put into the tire or run over and the tire had slowly been losing air.


So that wasn't something that was like punctured right then in there, they said actually that the tire could have been losing air for like either a hundred to like a thousand miles. Oh, wow. And it went flat after it had been parked. And it was probably just like and it was just the pressure that's sitting there. Exactly.


So they're like, things are weird with her car. Like, she wouldn't have been able to drive this herself. No. Like somebody was clearly in that car.


Somebody got in her car and then they kind of figured that the break in might have happened after it had been placed there. Like they don't think it was staged that way. They think somebody actually tried to break into it. But, yeah, that makes sense. I don't think her body was ever there. Actually, it wasn't. I can tell you. I don't think so.


The family was trying to get any information anywhere they could. Tom and Linda actually traveled to Tennessee where Brenda had bought that clock just to kind of talk to the guy and hang up posters around there because they well, she's been here. She's doing stuff. And the so Tom is talking to the guy about the clock and he actually knew how much Brenda loves the clock. So he continued to make the payments on it just in case she ever came back that she would still have the clock.


The sweetest thing I've ever heard, like brother, brother, her brothers are like are going to make you cry multiple times throughout this story.


Oh, man.


So he talks to the guy that sold Brenda the clock in this guy's like, oh, yeah, that guy that was with her was a total nut, a screwball. I couldn't talk to your sister. He would dominate. I could talk to him and nobody else.




So they're like, I think she bought that clock with Mel. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Who does that sound like? So all these tips are rolling in and everyone's like, no, I saw Brenda here at that time.


No, no. I saw her here, of course. And like, waitresses were like I served her that night and she looked to stress positive, which is like everybody was lying. They hadn't seen her, of course, which is frustrating. Yeah. Come on.


And it was making an already challenging investigation. Even more challenging, of course, a psychic came through because that always happens with these big cases. Throw psychics. You always get mad at what they say and I'm getting mad at you. Just casually do. They said that Brenda had been murdered and was in a plastic bag in a 55 gallon drum that was buried in some place that was wet. So divers had been searching for Brenda's body. They were searching the Ohio Ohio River for hours and hours and days, like, yeah, I think it was eighty hours total and they couldn't come up with anything.


Yeah. Because she wasn't in there. Right. But one day they were diving pretty close to a spot where Mel was known to take his boat fishing and they came across a 55 gallon bag with holes in it in a plastic bag inside of it. Oh you mean a drum. Yes. Oh what did I say?


A bag found that 55 gallon drum and it had a tag inside of it, which is exactly what the psychic said.


And it was in a spot where Mel Blake was known to fish.


All right. Psychic, you know, they and they were like, oh, like this must be Brenda. They opened it up empty.


Oh, but how weird. Like, how weird that coincidence. Like, it's like the complete exact same measurements in a spot where Mel was known to be.


Yeah, that's weird. Unless she put it there herself, the psychic, which I mean it's a lot of work to go to be a lot. Yeah. I don't think she did but that's crazy bananas. Wow. The police, they had to keep getting more information because they're this investigation was so challenging because like they knew that Mel did it.


But they there's nothing to get him.


They just couldn't pin it on. There's no first of all, there's no body.


So that makes things ten times harder. Always. There's no nothing. Yeah, there's nothing.


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But what there is, is all these people that they keep talking to and they keep connecting Mel and Marianne together, Mary Anne Shaw, the twatt lady, the twatt lady, what Joyce Smallwood, Brenda's friend, who had actually set her up with Mel in the first place.


We talked about her. Oh, she went to a hairdresser named Lauren. And Lauren was also Mel's hairdresser and also Marion's hairdresser. Oh, we got to talk to Lauren.


And we do. Oh, good Lord.


Told investigators that she knew for a fact. Are you ready that I don't know if I'm ready? I was just going for it. I was like, are you ready that? Are you ready? Because it's coming. Are you ready for this jelly? Are you guys ready? I'm ready now.


OK, sorry it took me a second, but I'm ready.


Mel had been having sex with Marion the entire time that he was dating. Brenda grows the entire time.


That's a really gross smell. It's really gross, Mel and Marianne.


So like, how are you going to do Brenda like that? She was beautiful and wonderful embroidery. You is a twat lady. How dare you?


And I just and also, Marianne, get some self-respect. Yeah, that's the other thing. It's like, come on. She was constantly following him and had like we'll get into later. She knew he was with Brenda. Yeah. That's gross. It's like it's gross on both of you. Don't be doing it both gross. Lauren had a lot to say. She also told them just how obsessed Marianne still was with Mel. So remember, they Donna, Mel's daughter had said like I saw her outside the house.


That was when they first broke up in 1984. OK, this is 1989 that he's dating Brenda. He she Mariana still following him everywhere.


Girl everywhere. She would drive up to that. And also, you're telling your hairdresser this like I'm a hairdresser. I've been told some crazy shit.


Well, I was going to say when you were like the hairdresser had all the shit, I was going to be like the hairdresser always has a hairdresser, of course, but I can always count on a hairdresser to tell you the hot cos I've been told some crazy shit. Like I just said, I've never been told anything like this. If my client told me that they were driving to their old man's house and like watching him and his new gal, I'd be like, ha ha ha.


But you don't know how long Lauren has been a hairdresser, that she could be one of those seasoned vets that here's like murder confessions and shit. And it's just like and it's just like like in confessional at church. Can you imagine if you got a murder confession? You know, you never know.


40 years down the road you could. I know people get real comfy with their hairdressers. I want that to happen. I've been told some I should do an episode on some stuff that I. Yeah, that's right. In the beginning of your career. I know.


Think about it decades later. Oh, I got told crazy shit in hair school. Yeah.


So who knows. Lauren could be one of those that just hears it all now she might. Well she had some advice for Marianne.


She was like, you're not in love, you're obsessed. Yeah. You got to stop.


Very different love and obsession are two different things. That movie with Beyonce. I do it. Beyonce was the one he loved.


That other lady obsessed. Yeah. And the title was obsessed. That blonde girl.


Yeah. I don't know her name. I knew her name, but I can't remember it. It doesn't matter because she's the crappy one.


She's the one lady. She is the nobody cares about the lady's name. It's true, you know.


So she's like, you're obsessed. You got to chill, stop. And Merriam's like, no. So she kept going to different clubs. No, no. She's like also that Larry's a little too long. Can you can I put that up? She kept going to different clubs and bars just to watch him. And she just she kept it going and they looked more into Marion's past and they saw Marianne not only like she was a shady character when they first looked in them, they did a double look in and there were actually warrants out for Mary Ann's arrest.


That is the least shocking thing I've heard all year. Honestly, five warrants out for this girl's arrest because she had been writing bad checks.


I feel like that's like hand in hand. It's also just the lamest thing to get.


Like it's always like when they're doing this kind of stuff and you're like, wow, you're shady, you're scary. You're starting to be all of a sudden you look back and you like and you wrote bad checks. It's always in there somewhere in the history.


I know a lady that writes a lot of bad checks and usually it escalates from there.


It makes sense. So where she's been writing these bad checks, where Kmart is a running theme in the story, she wrote a bad check to Kmart for something. I don't have the exact amount, but it was like twenty bucks. Wow. Like you're reading about check for twenty dollars, like, is it worth it? And I think there was only like two or three bad checks that she wrote and none of the amounts were over like none of them exceeded.


They were not significant at all. No. So it's like why if it doesn't feel worth it for the consequences that are going to hit you right at all, like what do you need? And she didn't have any kids right now. So it's like what could really be worth that?


Like you are buying, like formula for your child and you were like, you know what? The consequences be damned. All right. This is she was buying like a shower curtain at Kmart and she was like, the debit funds haven't hit. So I need that Sharika. I guess wow, so but that I say sell a lot and I'm sorry for it. I do too, don't worry. But so that's what the police were like. This is what we can get her on.


Like we can hold her on this. Yeah, because it's great. And keep her in for longer.


So they're like, we're going to go out there and we're going to go question her again.


And actually she agreed to do a polygraph even though they couldn't use it in court. They were pretty happy because she flunked the shit out of the polygraph test.


And I feel like that's always just like a good because I've said it before that it's like, you know, about as useful as a hot dog in a trenchcoat, but it's a nice little jumping off point. Like looks like you're getting a little nervous. So when it's like playing on that, we can go from here. It's a psychological game.


And this play, yeah, this polygraph wasn't just about the bad checks that she had written. It wasn't just about Kmart. Of course it wasn't.


They were asking her things like, so do you know anything about Brenda Schaffer's disappearance that you're not telling us? And she was like, no.


And they were like lies.


They were like, looks like this needle is saying something different. This needle is spinning a tail jump and jump and jump, jump, jump it.


And then it was jump and jump and back to be on, say, I know roads lead, all roads lead to be. They do.


So she takes this polygraph test where she just lies and lies and lies. And she's like, after it's done, she's like, I want to leave, of course. And they're like, you know what? We don't want to jump and jump in too quickly. So they let her go. Yeah, because you can't hold her. Technically, they could have because they had the warrants out for her. Oh yeah.


I forgot that they had that, but they were like, it's too soon to use that. Like we got it. We got to keep. Yeah.


You got to use that as your, as your card that you throw at the end. They've got to keep it close to the chest and the chest. I love you so loud.


So they let her go and she before she went she made a couple of phone calls and they were like, oh, she 100 percent fucking called Mel and was like, yeah, they're on to us. Oh, yeah. And they were pretty sure they knew for a fact that it was him.


So they dropped Mary Mary Ellen. Mary Ellen. They oh my God. Yeah, right. No, you got this. They drop, they ran. Stop, drop and roll. Get tuck and roll on this car. Beatch. No, they dropped Merian off at the house where she was a live in babysitter.


I just want you to stow that in your fucking memory that this lady is in charge of children.


That horrifies me in ways I can't explain. Just wait. But they decide they drop her off, but they're going to keep tabs on her.


They're not fucking going anywhere. Hell, yeah. I'm Omarion. Me too. I got my eyes on you. Yeah, that sounds like a song.


I'm watching Mary. And maybe it is. Yeah. They drop her off. They watch her. It's great.


Guess who fucking shows up together. Walking in the rain, taking a nice romantic walk together in the rain, no straight up walking in the rain. Oh, like a bit like Maroon five video. Yes, OK, except uglier.


I'm going to say Mel and Maryann walking in the rain to. I got it.


So they're like, hmm, what could Marion be talking to him about and what could be scaring her into not saying what could this cinematic scene tell us. Cinematic Marion was cracking.


They knew that's why she was meeting with Mel. Oh yeah. Like she's losing her shit. She's trying to be like, we got to go tell them they're on to us. They're closing in. I'm scared. What will you do? Her shit is being held together by very fragile webs of fabric to begin with. Yes. You start like poking at it and it's just gonna be like all the bad checks. Just get shredded up your paper shredder for nothing.


It's holding that together. So they're like, you know what? We were holding this earlier today close to our chests, but it's getting hot in here. So they arrested her right then. They're in that romantic brainwork. That's great.


And this sounds like a movie. Murry's film noir smells like.


Just cooperate, Marijan. You don't have to tell the thing. And it's like they're both reaching for each other as the rain pelts down on their disgusting face. You would think that. But you know that Mel, like, tripped her while they were handcuffing her just to make it easier because he's like, I hate you and I hate that I involved you in this, but don't tell them shit, but don't tell them anything.


I feel like shut up. He's also like, cooperate with them, but don't tell them anything. I'm calling Warlpiri with the police, but don't tell them shit like that.


So Marion is arrested right then in there they book her on five outstanding warrants that she had and she's like, I want an attorney. And they're like, we figured like, you know what? That's probably a good move. That's probably a good, good mood. It is a good mood. It's a it's very much a mood. It's like an attorney there. Mood, mood. Her brother was able to get her an attorney.


It's Jack Avidity. So I hope I'm saying that right. If you if you're not, that should be his name, because that's a cool last name. I'm going to call him Jack has been it's always hard to say and I'm to saying it wrong and it's not whatever. This story's great. Don't yell at me for just so Jack thought that this was going to be pretty cut and dry case. He's like, OK, like bad checks. I can do that.


I'm Jack. I'm Jack. I'm Jack. Put it out. I can do this. It was Jackie Brown. So Jack brings her to the arraignment the next day and she got sentenced to like a fine and some parole time. I didn't even bother looking into that shit because who gives a shit? Not me. But what I do give a shit about is that an FBI agent stopped Marion and Jack in the hall of the courthouse and they were like, hey, we want to bring you back in for questioning.


And where would the Fibi so would the Fibi.


So so Jack is like, what the fuck? Like what the FBI want to talk to her about a twenty dollar Kmart bad check. Oh, poor Jack.


He's like whole Jack is like, I'm not ready. I wasn't ready for this jelly. Oh I know. It keeps going in and it's natural, it's, it's natural and it's just isn't very organic.


So he's like yeah well this is not good. So he's like, hey girl, what haven't you told me she wants to build.


And she's like, yeah. So I used to date this guy and his girlfriend is missing and I have nothing to do with it. But like people think that I have something to do with it. I don't know nothing. I don't know anything at all. But Mel. Well, I love him, you know, she's like, so annoying.


You know how that is, right? Yeah.


It's like, you know, when that happens on a Friday after work and you're just tired and you don't want to deal with it. Everybody understands this. It's just like one of those things in life. Yeah. That's why I didn't tell you. I just didn't feel like dealing with it today. It's no big deal. I had plans to go to Kmart, write a check for fifteen dollars, a check for fifteen dollars because I just really liked that pillow.


Yeah. And he's like, oh fuck, what have I gotten myself into.


But well all that's going on. Let's go, let's get back to Mel.


What's what's your guy doing. I've been dying to know what Mel's doing. Mel was dating around and living his life. Oh. And he's out on the town. In fact, Mel had been dating people again just six weeks after Brenda had gone missing. You know, he's so upset, so upset, needs a shoulder to cry on. And he actually, like, spins that tale for himself and people by that, which, of course, still upset about to this day.


Yeah, because, you know, because come on this a few weeks ago. So I'm still upset. I'm still upset to this day. To this day since the 70s, seven upset about this bahouth. Everyone else was affected, obviously terribly. Brenda's family for one. Yeah.


But also Dr. Spaulding, who she used to work for all doctors.


Bolding was becoming increasingly paranoid and he feared that Mel was going to come after him because remember, he, like he told the police some crazy shit about how he threw his name in the ring.


Right. He was so scared that he literally ran drills in the office where, like, he was like, Mel's going to break in.


What are we going to do? I kind of love that. Like, I feel bad that he was so paranoid. Yeah. Like good on him. I feel like that's a specific type of brain. That works that way, that's like it's like when you and I go to the movies and we're like escape route before the previews where we go, like, that's just smart like that. You know what? You're looking at the situation. You're saying he's a crazy person.


He's been spewing all this stuff about me. Things could get crazy. And even if they don't, at least we're prepared. It's type A preparation and I respect that and I'm here for it. So he's like, what happened? So remember Joyce Smollett, who set them up? She worked at the office, so she's still working there. And he had her carry an eight millimeter in her desk. All right. In case Mel was to come in.


Yeah. And do what you got to do. He was carrying a gun himself and they were prepared to protect themselves should anything happen. He was literally like, do it. Like going and taking, like, target. Yeah. What's it called like target practice. Yeah, target shooting. He was doing that. He was doing that thing where you shoot a gun at a target. Yup. I know guns.


He was also this, this is like the super paranoid part. That's just sad. He was constantly hearing footsteps behind him, constantly calling the police to report like potential break ins when there was actually no break ins, man, and things like that.


He was so invested in the case and he he just wanted to see justice so badly that he set up a reward fund himself for any information on Brenda's case.


Dr. Spaulding, I love him so much. Oh, man. He just he just wanted justice, like, that's the thing. So he cared so much about getting information that he actually asked the police, like, what would happen to me if I ever sent a letter to Mel? And they were like, well, like, what are you going to say in the letter?


And he read the letter to them and they were like, Doctor, don't do that because we're going to have to put you in jail and you're going to have to pay a fine. Oh, no. And he was like, oh, I really don't want to pay a fine, but like, I'd be fine doing jail time because I could use the rest.


I, I kind of get that. I feel like you do what? As someone who is tired right now, I'm like, yeah, I could use the rest because you saw us and they were like, yeah, I don't send that letter.


And he was like, OK, oh good. And then you sent the letter. Oh of course he did. He's looking for that rest. Yeah.


So the letter was not written from scalding, but instead of Floridian drug lord who was going to send Cubans after Mel if Mel did not give up information, all the information that he had about Brenda.


Wow, that's that's a lot. It's very intense. And that was a very brief summary. If I would like to know more about that. You should read the book, Double Jeopardy by Bob Hill. Wow. Thank you. So Spalding had the letter sent from Florida to make it look real, but Mel figured it out somehow and he pressed charges for terroristic threatening because unfortunately, it is.


Unfortunately, that kind of is it is. It all works out. Don't worry. Yeah, I hope so.


Dr. Spalding, in the meantime, checked himself into a psychiatric hospital because he was just like really having a tough go out. Yeah, he was losing weight. He had shrunk. Oh, yeah. And he was like, you went into space for a year. It I think he did. Essentially he technically did. He was like a shell of himself. And he he just wanted information about Brenda because I think he ends up saying that because everybody's like, why did he love Brenda so much?


It's that kind of weird. But I think she was like a daughter to him. Yeah, really. Like, I think people are being bitchy about it. Yeah, I can understand that. I mean, I get it, but and you know what?


If something was going on, whatever. What do you want your boss to care about you that much? Yeah, I would hope. I would hope my boss would. You're kind of my boss, so. Yeah, I would care. Yeah. Anyways, Spalding stayed in the hospital for a month and he was diagnosed.


Oh so loud that was it. Scared the shit out of me. So he was diagnosed as bipolar and he had manic depression.


Oh you know. Well at least he got help. He did. He stayed in the hospital for a month and I already said that. But while he was in the hospital, Mel was weighing his options of also because, remember, he already pressed charges for the terroristic threats.


Now he's like, I could do a civil suit and I could definitely win that. And then I would be able to pay Marijan hush money. Oh, yeah. So he's like weirdly cunning. He's so cunning. Like, I don't love that. I hate it. I hate when they're like kind of smart and not evil. It's like, well, it's really shitty.


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So on August 8th, 1989, Dr. Spaulding was found guilty on charges of terroristic threatening oh, man, Dr. Spaulding. But because of the circumstances surrounding the case, he only had to pay three hundred dollar fine. Oh, heyo. Because I think people felt bad for him.


I would add something good came from this case. Oh, good. That something good was the fact that Scott Cox, who was a U.S. attorney, he had been sitting through the trial. I think he was a consulting with one of the other lawyers. There's a lot of lawyers at trials. Yeah. And while Mel was on the stand explaining how hurt he was by Brenda's disappearance and how it had ruined him, Scott just felt that there was something not right about this dude.


He was like, I got a feeling I want to do more.


And then the Brenda Brenda Schaffer's case actually ended up on his desk. Oh, so he got an idea when this happened. And he's like, I'm going to go talk to Charlie Ricketts. Oh, good old Charlie records. You always got to go talk to Charlie Scott's idea was to get a grand jury investigation going where they could put Mel on the stand. And Scott was hoping that he would somehow be able to trip Mel up or the jury would kind of like feel the same as he did about the slime ball.


That is the slime bell that is now, you know, that slimy bill, that smell. But so Scott's idea, he he sold the idea to Ricketts as a way for Mel to clear his name. He's like, I believe he, like, totally like shmooze this guy. Oh, yeah, phenomenal. He's like, oh, yeah. I think he's, you know, innocent. And I think this is a great way for him to prove it.


And Charlie Ricketts is like, I think you're right. Like, thank you for caring about my client. So, oh, Charlie and Scott's like, I care. I care so much. He didn't give a fuck. He was like, well, he testified really well during the case against Dr. Spaulding. So that's why it's going to be good for him. But he had plans to take me down on the stand and get him to crack. And then if he didn't get nailed to crack, he was like, I have a plan to get Marianne to testify so that I can get her to fucking crack because that lady's going to crack.


He's like, I'd really just like an omelet today. I really would. And crack. She fucking did. I am not shocked. Mel, unfortunately, did a really good job of making himself look like a victim while he was on the stand. I figured just like in the Spaulding case, he pushed the tail forward, that he was a broken man who was financially and emotionally ruined. I'm a broken man. I'm broke. And Michelle myself.


And when he was asked about his sexual relationship with Marianne, he said he just needed companionship after Brenda was gone because to make myself feel better.


Well, that's what the doctor prescribed. Gross. After you testified, he did this like super big press conference outside the courthouse. And he said, and I quote, I hope in some way this will help the investigative officers to redirect their case in an effort to try to make to find my fiancee and find out what happened and who was involved. It's not don't worry, though. It that's what I have to say to you should stay. And it's not going to lead them elsewhere, I tell you that much.


So he was like, I'm not worried. But he was worried. He was worried that Marianne was getting on the stand. Oh, yeah. And a couple of weeks before she was supposed to get on the stand, he actually basically overdosed. He makes too much too much vodka with Valium and he ended up in the hospital. Oh. So the investigators were like, was this a suicide attempt? Now, I don't really think it was a suicide attempt because I think he's too vain to kill himself.


Yeah. And so I feel like those people typically that's pretty off the cuff for them. Yeah. Like feeling out of the norm. I mean, he's too I feel like I don't know, he is too cocky to do. He is, he's too cocky with this. He thinks he's going to get away with this. He does not think he's going to be caught. Right. I think he thought he was in full control, but I think he knew the hold that he had on Marianne, too.


And he didn't think she would turn on him, but he was worried about it, at least a little bit.


Makes sense. But what is simple, but that's also a very stupid mistake to make because it makes him look guilty. Exactly.


So it's like I don't know, also maybe he just did that because maybe he was stressed and like took some blame and he is walking into places holding, like, big old things of alcohol. So maybe that was just a coincidence. That's what I think it was an accident. I don't think he was intoxicated. I don't think he was trying to, you know, complete suicide. And I don't think he did it and didn't do with any, you know what I mean?


Like, didn't complete it. Yeah, I think it was just he was drinking. He probably took some Valium and he probably fucked it up. Exactly. I agree with that.


So to make himself feel better, Mel joined a church and he got himself baptized. All right. That fixes everything. Of course it does.


Some of the people in the church were the church were absolutely horrified. And but they were like actually mad because they felt like he was making a mockery of their religion, which he was, because he's literally being like, OK, dunk me in this holy water and now everything's fine.


And I didn't do it right. I'm no what is it absolved of my sins?


I'm yeah. For years. For years.


So he became close to one woman who later came forward and told investee. That he called her one night to talk to her about their faith and this is what he said to her. He basically said hypothetically, let's say that I did kill Brenda Schiefer wouldn't the state she shouldn't at the state do what God has done and just forgive. And the lady was like, yeah, wouldn't that be nice? But then there would be no need for jail because everybody would just turn to religion and confess their sins over and over again.


And like, we just have criminals running around all the time. Yeah, she was like, that doesn't make any sense.


And she was like, if you did kill her, then here on Earth you need to face your punishment and then maybe God will forgive you like you should if you face your punishment.


But if you're lying, then your sins are not completely absolved. Yeah, and she was she said that Mel would constantly call her over and over again and be like, why aren't you calling me back? Like, why aren't you calling me that call? Fuck that. He was like, really interested in this lady. But that was the last time she ever talked to him because she was like, yeah, no.


She was like, if you say like, what if I hypothetically killed this person that I'm a suspect in the murder case for? You probably killed them. It's like you're O.J. before.


That's a thing. Exactly. So Mel kind of was O.J. before he was O.J. a little bit before O.J. was O.J. and then, like other people in the church supported Mel and they couldn't believe that this was a man capable of murder. So it kind of it also, like, divided the church community that he was involved.


Yeah, because the people who he was, he was able to pull the the you know, the what's it called the veil over their eyes.


But those are the carpet out from under them. Like what? What is he pulling. He's pulling something. He's pulling some shit over there.


It was the people who he was able to do that, too, like being charming, I'm sure, and being very sympathetic and like, you know, played on all that. But then it's the people that are like actually looking at it through, like, clear eyes that are like right now.


Exactly. And they like he saw religion as like an escape to murder somebody. Yeah. He saw it as like a safety net. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And he was going to like church events, like the singles events that the church had and people into the mixes. This is disgusting. Like get out of here. You killed your fiancee. Like no one wants to date. You know what.


Like we're actually pretty afraid of you.


Yeah, but while that was all going on, Marianne, she got on the stand. Oh, I'm ready.


And she fucking blew it. Oh, she's a canary. She yeah. So she started out fine. Cool, calm, collected all cucumber if you will.


Oh my God. All the C.A.T., all of it. But when Scott Cox asked her this is what he asked her and she fucking loses it. Can you just describe Brenda Schaefer to the jury? Oh, I see why she lost it. That's true, that's a very aggressive question. So she said, well, I only saw her that one time with Mel at a bar. And Scott was like, OK, can you describe her from that last occasion or the last time you saw her?


The last time you saw her picture, what she's thinking, oh, she obviously remembered the last time she fucking saw Brenda, which was not at that random bar with Mel, and she literally hopped off the stand and was like, I have to talk to my attorney, because I guess I know and I don't completely understand this, but I think how grand jury investigations work is that, like your attorney, like if your testifying has to be in the hallway, like it's just the grand jury and the person testifying, I think sense.


So she runs out into the hallway and is like, I have to talk to my lawyer. She's like, I need to ask my lawyer if I can explain seeing her being murdered or if that will get me in trouble.


So hold on one sec. So Jack was like she runs out there and Jack's like, OK, like, what's the issue? And Marion was like, well, they asked me to describe Brenda. And Jack was like, OK. And she said, you know what those words mean, right? At that point, it was it was slowly, slowly becoming evident. But at this point, like real evident, that Marianne knew a lot more than she was saying to anybody, including him.


Absolutely. And he's like, if I'm going to represent you, I need to know everything you need to be honest, like, because that's how I'm going to help you. So she went back on the stand and she just said that Brenda had medium length brown hair. That's all she said. And Scott was like, why did you get so upset when I asked you to describe Brenda? Like, what? What can you explain to us what happened?


And she said, I just don't know how to describe her.


You just did, though, right? Exactly. Exactly. And it was real easy.


So after her slip up on the stand, the FBI, Scott Cox and even Jack, her own fucking attorney, agreed that, like I said, she knew more than she was saying. Yeah. So they arranged an off the record meeting and they kept going back and forth during the meeting with Marianne, she was staying quiet, but they could tell she had something to say. Yeah, she was quiet. But they can they know body language. They know the way you answer a question.


They know when you're fuckin holding. Yeah. Withholding, and they just keep chipping away. So Scott finally tells her, if we find out something and it's not from you, like you didn't tell us and it involves you or this murder in connection with each other, you're going to get the electric chair. Good. I'm glad they were just like, we're going to kill. You know, that's literally like he was like you like if this happens, you're going to die and like, you'll get the death penalty.


Yeah. So just sit with that if you want to just know. And that's when she really started to look freaked out, obviously, and she was like, can I just take a break?


And they were like, yeah, sure, sweetie, baby, what is it. But you think, sweet honey, baby, sweetie pie, honey, baby, sweetie pie. Take all the time you need.


Yeah. So they broke off for a little bit and she's talking to her attorney Jack and he's like, Maryann, if you know something you need to tell me.


And then maybe if you tell me I can somehow work out a deal for you. Yeah. So she's she heard that she would get a deal and she was like, OK, I'll talk. She's like, oh, you know what? She should have said it. So he gives she gives him some information and he goes back to the FBI and the agents and everybody and they go back and forth and Marianne finally breaks down and goes, I suppose I know where she's buried.


Oh, I suppose I know where she's buried. Wow, you've had that fucking information for how long? Wow, it had been. You don't even know that she's dead at this point.


No, no, it's she was I. Well, yeah, but they're like we don't have a body normally. We don't have like blood evidence or anything. Nothing. They have no evidence. And now she's like, what if I could and she's OK, so let's keep going. And it's like, suppose I know where she's buried. Oh, we wouldn't want that information. Well, no, don't tell us that. That's that's like. No way.


Come on. Give us something we can use. Mary.


So Jack is like mother fucker. I thought this was just bad. He's like, oh shit. He's like, can we work out a deal somehow even though like I don't want to he's like, help me, I'm insane. And well, to me I'm very over my head. So Marianne comes back, she tells me everything. She said that Mel had been calling her up and saying this. So this is everything that happened. Mel Gibson calling her up, saying he wanted to do a sex therapy workshop with Brenda and he needed Marianne's help.


Oh, so trigger warning. Yeah. So she said that his plan was an entire plan of torture, rape, and he planned to kill Brenda. But Marianne had been in the kitchen when Brenda died, so she didn't. Oh, you're doing you're fine, Marianne.


But she did say that she took photos of the assault, but that Mel had them. So she told them that she helped Mel dispose of Brenda's body in the woods behind her house. Remember, she had five acres of land. Oh, shit. But she doesn't live there anymore. She got an apartment like she sold the house because she didn't get along with the fucking landlady because she's a twat lady. Obviously not the landlady. Marianne, Marianne.


And she said that she could even lead them to Brenda's body if they cut her a deal. And they agreed they agreed to cut her a deal because they thought that she had just like really helped in burying the body. Yeah. So they considered it tampering with evidence. And she would only get, I think, one to five years for tampering with evidence. It's a class D felony fuck. Yup. So that's good. So they so remember, this is all technically off the record and they needed to know more.


So they didn't really have a choice here. Like they were like we have to give her this deal because we Mel is the one that we want to get. And somebody said something like, you got to like take the small devil so you can get to the big deal. Yeah. Which is so bad. So they asked Maryann if she would be able to wear a wire and talk to Mel and maybe get him over to her apartment to, like, confess.


And they were going to set up a sting basically.


And this would be awesome because like we were, we don't really give a shit about Marianne. So it's like, yeah, go in there. Otherwise you're going to find out that you wanted to give a shit about me.


And she told them, like, yup, that should be easy, because Melko had been calling her for months, every single day at 4:00 to check in on her, see who she had talked to and see what they had talked about every single day. So they had to rush to cut Marianne this deal, like on paper, they had to get her to her apartment, get her whole place wired, get her wired, like, carefully, and they had to get her back to her apartment in time to get this four o'clock phone call or else Mel was going to do something crazy.


Yeah. And like find out probably. So they made her the deal, like I said, tampering with evidence. And if she was found guilty, she'd get one to five years, like I said. So they got to the apartment. They get the whole place bugged. They have officers dressed as workers for the apartment building, which I thought was so cool. And they're ready to strike. When Mel shows up after, basically, they're like, you got to get him to admit the murder somehow on the phone.


Yeah, they coached her. They were like, make sure you say Brenda's name. Like, tell Mel that they're selling the land where we buried Brenda. Like, again, say her name, say where we buried her and like Kenny, ask him if he can come over because she really needs to talk to him and she's worried that they're going to get caught soon. Marion is apparently uncoachable and the worst fucking person to wire. That doesn't surprise me because she didn't get anything done on that call that they had asked her.


She didn't even say Brenda's name one time on the phone call because she knows what she did. She knows what she did 100 percent. And the phone call barely lasted even five minutes because Mel honestly outsmarted the whole thing. He just didn't trust it. He was too smart to get over the phone, which I hate to say. Yeah. And he told Marianne, if you want to talk to me, I'll meet you at the ice cream shop, which was their usual meeting spot.


And if you want to find out what they talked about, the ice cream shop, you're going to have to listen to part three, you motherfucker.


I know. Holy shit. Isn't this all crazy? This is insane.


She's like, I helped to dispose of the body and I took pictures and they're like, OK, well, I guess we'll just give you tampering with evidence one to five years, one to five years. And we're going to talk about in part three, Mary Anne on the stand again today when she just hopped off of the stand. Yeah, we're going to talk about how Mel got away with murder, essentially. And we're going to talk about how karma is a bitch and runs full circle.


And maybe you'll be happy in the end. I hope so.


I need a good ending here because so far these jackals are really just running around doing whatever they want. It's pissing me off. They really are. It's making me mad. So I can't wait to see four part three.


And then it's like Marianne just told them to like he called me. He said he was like planning to torture, rape and murder this woman.


So I went to his house. It's like, yeah, that enough that that alone is enough to be like you're an accomplice to murder, you're a psychopath and we need to put you away forever. And they were like, I think we should just cut the deal.


I get why they wanted to do. I mean, it's but it sucks in a roundabout way. You're like, OK, I get that you have to, you know, do the small to get to the big. You can't make an omelet without cracking a few.


But honestly, I don't think she was the small thing to get the two of them. She made the big I texted this to you this morning. It's it's a Karla Homolka situation. It really is. She is she acts like so innocent and she gets the deal and she gets the fucking kaala deal with the devil, just the small devil, just the kind of small devil.


So, yeah, we also need to shout out some patrons.


But Trueness is normally do this here, right? We do. OK, good. OK, I'm on the record. Yeah.


You know, so tonight we're going to thank Kellyann Spight Kellyann spite. I think that's how you say your last. Thank you so much. Thank you. And then next, we're going to thank Adrian Johnson.


Adrian Johnson, thank you so much. You're great. Then we are going to thank Kristin Davis, Kristin Davis, thank you, Chris and Davis IOI. And then I think it's Kaili. Could be Carly Yirga. Thank you. Kelly Kelly, your Yorga. We appreciate you. Thanks so much. We appreciate you so much. You know who else we appreciate?


Kaitlyn Boulay. Caitlin Boulay. Thank you so much. Thank you, Gemma, Dobel, Gemma, Dobel, you're so noble, you are noble. Thank you so much.


I love you with my whole entire heart. Next, we are going to thank Carol Reep, Carol Reep, you the best.


You reap what you Carol. So you do Justice Liebe Berk's. I want to thank you and apologize if I said your last name wrong. Thank you so much. You're great.


I love you. You're all also. Then we have Ali. Night, Ali. Night like and it's not like nighttime. It's like I'm a fight. Like I like I'm a princess night. Yeah. Like, what's up. Yeah, exactly. We love Nela the princess.


I mean, we love you and then we love a Madonna. Oh yeah.


So hot right now Hannah. So hot right now. Thank you so much. Then we want to thank Don Troche or Trog, Don Trog or Teruggi.


You're the best. Thanks so much. I'd like to thank Cameron with a K. Cameron with a K.. We love you cameraman. Like yourself out right now.


And then just another Madonna. Michelle, Michelle with one l my belle Michelle. My Belle with one l so hot right now. Oops. I went into a different screen. I'm trying to print you off Michelle. I'm trying to print you. I love you that much. Last but not least, I would like to thank Tessa Amaroo, Tessa Amaro, thank you so much. Thank you so much to all of our patronizes. We could not do this show without you.


You are here from the beginning.


You're here now and we love you for it started from the bottom. We appreciate you so much. Thank you.


Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And as always, guys, you can follow us on Instagram at more of a podcast, hit us up on Twitter, a morbid podcast and also email morvai podcast at Gmail dot com.


Keep listening and we hope you keep it weird, but not so rare that you're like, oh, but not sorry that you're writing bad checks to Kmart for only like twenty dollars.


And then you meet this guy named Ellen, you're like, oh my God, I love Bill so much from L is only using you and you should really know that you should have a lot more self respect. The Merian sure. Don't keep it somewhere that you don't have any self-respect in your writing bad checks and then you helping a murderer and you're like, I didn't just help in the murder, I buried the body and I took pictures. But I'm just going to get off on one to five years because I'm the devil.