Hey, Weirdo's, I'm Ash and I'm Allena, and this is morbid. Oh, had it. Yeah, this one's going to be a doozy, huh?

Guys, guys, guys, girls, this one, this is one of those cases, it's just one of those cases and deep, dark, spooky, horrific, brutal, gruesome case.

Yeah, that about covers it. And so we're going to be covering the Moors murders by Ian Brady and Myra Hindley.

We're probably going to be covering them in three parts.

One, two, three. And Alina's has decided to really put her frickin pencil to the paper, kind of. And she's going to give you all the cases two days apart.

Exactly. We're not going to make you wait long for these ones because they're really intense and I've pretty much already finished them.

So you're going to get them. There's only going to be two days between each one and they're going to be right after the other partner. No cases in between.

You're going to get like full Moors murders for the entire week. So you'll be done by Saturday. Well, just say and I guess I'll try to do something light and fluffy on Wednesday. Yeah. Just to make it all light and fluffy. Yes. So it's going to be all murder moors murders all the time this week.

Get excited because it's terrible. Get your get your butt glue together. Just just gorilla glue your hands to your to hold it together because this is a case I think I mentioned it last week when I was saying I was going to cover this.

This is a case that was, you know, how everybody who's been into true crime forever has a couple cases that just have stuck with you. A couple of cases that you like, couldn't get enough of reading about. You just absorbed everything you could about them. And this is that case for me. It was one of those cases that I could not stop reading about.

So that's why this is going to be a very long and very involved case. And there are three cases, probably because I just couldn't believe there was so much about them. There's so much about the cases. There's so much that happened after the murders.

Yeah, there's just so much that we can't just give you, like this quick little like foop about it because it just will not do it will not do the victim's justice, really.

So you're going to get all the information.

Do we want to bring back something that people have missed a lot for these three episodes?

Oh, I think if Annie's willing, she's over there. What do you think about a couple of palate cleanser Zann? Yeah, all got one together. All right, we'll have a palate cleanser for this episode. Yes. Which we might use it pretty early on the episode because I think most of this one we're going to talk about my friend Ian.

We're going to talk about their lives. So we're going to talk about how they got together and their relationship. OK, but I'm going to start it off real bad, OK?

So we might need one right away. All right. Well, Annie, so. Well, the palate cleanser goes after the palate has been destroyed. So, Annie, shoot me a text when you're ready with your palate cleanser. Get it together right now. And Elena, you know what? Just fucking hop right into this bizarre, horrible mess. All right, everybody, it's it's a dude you love that I just, like, assigned everybody. I was like, I'm.

I'm the captain. That was great. I'm the captain. Now that you delegated, that's you. That's what boss ass bitches do. They delegate. While I was doing that, I also, like, shoved some of my sparkly eye shadow that was in the corner of my eye. I saw that into the inside of my eye. And now you're just digging on it. She's having a moment. She's having a moment. It's OK. Don't worry about me.

Go.

You know, you might as well make yourself cry right now because you're about to.

So, I mean, this case in the UK is infamous to this day. It is that case they all hear about. I'm sure all our UK listeners are like, yup, yup. No, this one. Everybody knows this case. It's intense.

I know of the case, but I don't I'm going to find out a lot. I just. So I'm right here with you.

It happened between 1963 and 1965.

That's when the murders occurred, at least mainly this revolves around Satyal Worth Mor's which which is what it is. It's Mor's are just like vast lands.

Like it's like fields. Yeah. Like things like Wuthering Heights. Like it's just like, it's like open plains and it's just like this massive amount of land. OK, I mean there's like rocky portions marsh, it's just a lot of land. OK, it's, they're beautiful because they're beautiful, but these are very tainted, OK.

The killings took place sometimes in the moors and also the bodies would be buried on the moors.

OK, so these are located in West Yorkshire and they became which later, I think West Yorkshire became Manchester leader or like part of it.

Did any Manchester United fans out there, you know, shout out to my step mom? There you go. Well, Glory, that's the song.

It was like, what's happening right now?

But any of our UK listeners who can, you know, probably tell us better about that, I just read, like, a quick little thing. That's it. Like part of it's now Manchester and but it whatever.

I just wanted to put it out there.

So before we get into speaking about these two absolute blights on the kindred spirit. Yeah. These I mean, I want to give you a quick glimpse into what they did because at times you might feel tempted to feel for them or relate to them.

Now, remember, we feel bad for the child to them. We don't feel bad for what they did later.

Well, because we're going to talk about their childhoods. We're going to talk about their relationship.

It has a tendency sometimes to humanize these people. So I really want to dehumanize them right off the jump so that nobody, nobody ends up being like, oh, gross. I felt bad for them for a minute. Yeah, I'm going to help you out with that. You're welcome. I'm just thinking about you guys. You're welcome in advance.

Exactly.

So Ian in particular can be very easily perceived as like charming, intelligent, worldly, like ten of your ex-boyfriend you posted on Twitter.

But if you don't have a Twitter now, you know.

Yeah, it's pretty upsetting. I was like, why does he look so familiar? High school boy.

And then you look at that mug shot and I was like, oh, I tweeted out you. And I was like, well, gosh, I was like, I need that image. I really does. It's upsetting. Sorry.

Well, so he can be seen as like charming, intelligent, all that good stuff. But that also came along with some of the most evil shit that I have ever heard of. And he's someone who took what he wanted when he wanted it, and he just left chaos everywhere he went.

And he did that for basically associate his entire life. He was a career thief. He was just a career thief.

He he, like, burglarize houses his entire like, OK, his entire career, the I was like, well, like he started when he was much younger and he did it basically as a second career.

OK, like he made money out of it. He lived. I thought he was stealing people's jobs. No, he did. Wow. A criminal.

So many people are going, oh yes, I love when they say that he was very overly satisfied with himself to the level of such extreme narcissism that it'll make your ears bleed to hear his quotations. Oh, God, dude thinks he is just the bee's knees, the smartest.

But he had a pretty happy childhood, albeit unconventional, but he had a pretty happy childhood.

So. So I'm not going to feel bad for him.

You're not you might feel bad for Myra, whatever. But you're not after this. So don't worry about. But Myra's childhood was tough, she was everything she was up until the bitter end, ugly as fuck and singed, not cute she was. And I feel bad saying that because she's the one that literally got you on edge of the earth. You can say whatever you want.

And she was obsessed with Ian to the point of almost making you want to feel pity for her.

Oh, because she was into him in a very obsessive, like pre-teen like swooning over him kind of way. Gotcha. And as we'll see later, that was not it was not reciprocated at first. Like it was like the poster on your bedroom wall that you like kiss before you go to bed. Exactly. And said, you know, eventually it changes. But at first you could see that and we'll go into like her diary entries and such about it.

So, no, you could be like, oh, Myra.

But just remember, she's a shit stain. It's always great when they find a diary.

Yeah, exactly. So all of this could make you feel bad for her at points, I'm sure you know, again, feel bad for young Myra with the abusive alcoholic father.

Yeah, definitely feel bad for that.

But she made a choice to be an evil son of a bitch as an adult. And that's solely on her. Exactly.

Not only did she make a choice, but she embraced that despicable side of herself and deserves to be admonished just as much as Ian Brady does.

So let's get it. Well, Myra in particular gets a lot of sympathizers still.

Do you think it's because she's a woman for sure?

Well, people see her as someone who went bad purely because of Ian Brady and her need to please him.

In my opinion, that doesn't happen. You know, it's just very, very rarely does when it comes to crimes as severe as this one. Right. You got it in you. It's if you're doing it again, I feel like I'm really focusing on this person.

But Karla Homolka, like people want to. Paul Bernardo made her do it. And it's like she wanted to do the people that are capable of doing things like this, it's in them or it's not exactly. Well, and that's the thing. None of the investigators who worked on this case think Myra was anything other than an equal part of a truly evil whole. They were like she was an equal opportunity fuckup in this whole thing. It was not him manipulating her into it.

She wanted to do it. It's like somehow these two fucked up people found each other. Exactly.

And there's audio of some of these crimes. And Myra can be heard participating and being supremely cruel and abusive to these children.

Oh, no. She is just as evil as Ian in her attempt to be seen later as a battered and manipulated woman is maddening, like maddening.

And it's so fucking false. It's false. Obviously, those tapes are not released.

No one. And we're not going to read the transcript. Absolutely not. I don't even think there is transcripts, to be honest. They're horrific.

And but just hearing what is on those tapes from the investigators, she was very much an equal participant.

And for her to later say what she will talk about later, heard a later say, you know, I was at one point she said she was running a bath during the whole thing, so she wasn't paying attention.

She was supporting evil in and of itself. And it's like, no, we can hear you on the tape like you're participating in it. But thank you. Good try, though. Thank you for that. It just makes me want to scream. And they're both abhorrent.

But Myra's need to be seen as a victim just makes me hate her on such a separate level, not more just on a separate level, because when somebody is, like you said, so evil and a willing participant and then later when they're caught, they're like, oh, no, like they want sympathy.

Didn't mean to do. Yes. It's like she wants something up. Well, we're going to get into the crimes in detail.

And Part two, that's going to be a very rough episode. Great. And we're going to talk about their interviews from prison and how they turned on each other, maybe in part three. But this sneak peek is just so you can remember right from the jump that they are not a sad story of people led astray.

They are irredeemable, hateful, depraved affliction on the very fabric of humanity.

The way she writes everybody, that is who they are, this bitch. So everybody just keep that in mind for the whole thing.

That is who they are. They are terrible. Just put that in your noggin, but just hold on to that.

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They had five victims between 63 and 65, that they were Edward Evans, who is 17 years old. My God, Keith Bennett, who was 12 years old. Pauline Reed, who was 16 years old. John Kilbride, who was 12 years old, and Lesley and Downey, who was 10 years old, 10 years old.

So young young children across the board.

And Leslie and Tony is the example I'm going to give you a brief glimpse at before moving on to Ian Myers lives and their relationship with each other.

I chose Leslie to drive my point home with not because her death is in some way, you know, more important than Edward, Keith, Pauline or John's. Yeah, not that.

It's just because there's tangible evidence to show the evil of Ian and Myra that I think will keep everyone in the correct mindset while we talk about their lives.

OK, so they kidnapped, tortured, sexually assaulted, filmed, recorded and then murdered Leslie and Danny in their home while the audio of her pleas and cries to go home is six minutes long.

At one point, possibly the most heart wrenching part of the audio and let me take a deep breath before I mention this part, this is going to be rough, guys, so just get ready, OK? It's just one sentence, but it's enough. She says to Ian, don't undress me, will you?

I want to see Mummy. Oh, no. All while the sound of the Christmas song Little Drummer Boy is playing in the background looped. Shut the fuck up. That's like that's beyond sickening.

Like even just saying it. My heart just dropped now to my toes. Now, is that something they did on purpose, put on Christmas music on loop? Well, actually, she was abducted the day before Christmas Eve, the dough.

But did they put it on loop to be like a scary probably. I think they just put it on just to make it more of a chaotic situation for her, because both of them, both of them had a lot of fun on that audio.

Both of them are fully into it. So in tries to say later that like, no, I was I was not part of that.

And meanwhile, the investigators are like, oh, no.

She was very in fact, she was cruel on that tape. Oh, no. So the former police chief, John Stocker, he passed away in 2009, but he worked on this case and he listened to that 16 minute recording, as did all the investigators will change you.

He had a lot to say about the effects that this case had on everyone who worked on it.

And he said whenever he heard the Little Drummer Boy during Christmas after he said he would have like a physical, visceral reaction.

You can't even imagine. You must. Yeah.

And he said, quote, Nothing in criminal behavior has penetrated my heart with quite the same paralyzing intensity. It's an innocent children's Christmas song, but a chill goes down my spine every time I hear The Little Drummer Boy because it reminds me of Myra Hindley who opened for him to just say Myra.

And she was a big part of that tape.

And he also said, quote, The song brings back terrible memories of having to listen to a tape of Hindley and her accomplice, Ian Brady, torturing a terrified little Lesley Andoni with that music playing in the background.

Mm hmm. He said, quote, I first heard the tape when I was a detective sergeant. Manchester investigating the Moors murders when the six minute tape was played at the police station.

Before the trial, I saw senior detectives and legendary crime reporters, hard men who had been through the war and seen terrible things dissolve into tears.

Anybody unfortunate enough to have to listen to her harrowing last desperate moments could not fail to conclude that Hindley was evil and an equal partner with Brady in the crimes.

So he's like, fuck off.

Anybody who listen to that tape will tell you she is right there with him. Right? So to me, the I want mummy thing is like will destroy you. That's just I mean, I can't eat. Her parents had to listen to that tape to identify their daughter's voice.

Are you serious? Yup.

These two demons created a world where NWA, Leslie's mother had to hear her baby pleading for scene on tape that is so beyond any kind of redemption, like it's unable to be even articulated properly.

No, like I can't even find the words. Rarely can I not find the words. I can't find the words new for you like I and I think it's like the mummy thing.

Like for some reason and I say it all the time, cases like this, like really good. Well, yeah, you change when you have children, but it's also like you think of like the George Floyd case we call his mother. When you said it, that's exactly what I thought of. It's if you look into that, like I have talked about it, a lot of people's last one of their last words are like, I want my mom are like mommy.

Exactly.

And it's like I that like that part of that case, too, was just like, oh my God. And you're just I mean, this is this is me.

I'm not speaking for all mothers. I see most mothers who care about the children feel this way. But I don't want to speak for everybody. And I feel like maybe I'm like a little crazier at times because, like, I tried really hard to have my kids and like, it took us a long time. Yeah.

So I feel like very overprotective, possibly like to a fault, like moderately like moderately crazy.

No, but I feel like even when my kids will say, like, you know, when I'm like, you know, that was no idea what you just did and, you know, no snack after lunch.

Yeah.

When one of them will go, like, OK, Momma, I immediately I'm like, that was me. Like I was too much like I'm like, you know, I don't know what it is.

It's like the word mama or mommy or mom when you're a mother.

Yeah. To me I have such like a sense of duty. I know that when that word is like, thrown at me. Yeah. So when one of my kids says that I just feel like I need to immediately be there.

I'm like, well even even when you just like give the kid a punishment, like you saying that like I remember baby sitting like I'm the oldest in the family. So I babysat like all the grandkids and like giving them like a punishment, like being like no snack after lunch or like go sit on the stairs. You see something in their face and it hurts.

It does. You're like, oh, you're like, you know what? Never mind. Never mind. It's hard. You can't do it.

It's so hard. So for this poor little baby and we're going to post a photo of like the victims, obviously. And Lesley Andoni is like a baby and she's this beautiful little girl.

And it's until she's get a little face.

And for these two demons to hear her say, I want my mommy and to have no contempt for where did they abduct her from?

They abducted her from a fairground. Like a carnival. Yeah. And we're going to go into the detail of the whole thing in part two. Yeah, but and again, as if you know this.

Wouldn't just be enough to make you want to, like, launch this planet into the sun, because there's two people like this exist on it, Meira doubled down and said so in 1987 after she had admitted to her role in the murders.

She wrote a fucking letter to Leslie and Downey's mother and hitting me, and she acted like she deserved to be pitied.

How is that even allowed? I if if I was the fucking postman or like the guy that took care of the shit at jail, I would have lost that letter. Well, it's it's unbelievable.

She wrote that even if she wrote to this woman acting like she was the victim, there is a quote so that one of the quotes is I know almost everyone describes me as cold and calculating.

You are evil, Myra, but I ask you to believe that I find all of this deeply upsetting.

Do you know you find it upsetting because you're in jail now? That's that's what you find upsetting.

IRA, no one gives a shit that you're upset about being called evil, you shit brained, busted, faced, whiny little twat. Are you kidding me? Right. You're talking to a woman whose daughter you brutally assaulted and murdered and filmed it, and you're asking her to please believe in you.

And you're saying, I'm so sad that people are calling me evil. Fuck, right?

Oh, she's so sad that the evil woman who's writing to her murdered her dog. It gets worse. So then she lies knowing that and has heard the fucking tape of her child being tortured and murdered.

She knew that. She heard that.

And so and she said, quote, Please believe me, not for my sake, but simply in the hope that it will give you even a little peace of mind, because that's what I want to do, that, however monstrous and unforgivable the crime was.

Your child was not tortured to death. No, she was also.

That doesn't help you disgusting vermin. That's proof right there to me that she doesn't understand human empathy or human emotion, right? She can't see that. It does absolutely nothing to reassure a mother that although you violently abducted, filmed, recorded and murdered her 12 year old baby girl, that you didn't torture her to death. Right. Like what? Like you can't understand, like why she wouldn't give a shit what you are saying right now.

That's like when Mel addressed the family happened. Brenda Sue Schaffer's case, when he finally admitted that he did, it was like, I like I raped, I tortured, I took photos. I did all this. But she died peacefully. Like, no, she did it. No one gives a shit. And that's not true. And that's just you're a liar. And that's why you can see that these kind of people are such a different kind.

They don't understand how our brains work. They do not understand basic human empathy or emotion. It's mind boggling. She started a scam against them and a letter that they didn't fall for, and that was caught a year or so later. So she says in the letter I have written to the Home Office and the parole board to say I do not wish to be considered for parole. And my own belief is that I shall probably remain in prison until I die.

So that sounds nice, right? That's right. Have a great time. You understand that you shouldn't get parole. That's real nice, Myra. So she claims she isn't going to go for parole because she's such a good person now and wants to serve her sentence.

Never be released. So nice, Myra.

Well, it turns out that was a ploy.

She was she didn't want them to show up to the parole hearing while she was trying to get Leslie and Downey's family to stop campaigning against her possible parole and in blocking it, because within a couple of years, she petitioned for parole again and was denied in 1994.

Right. And W continuously petition for the government to stop Myra from ever being released until she died in 1999.

WRP and and but her husband, Alan, continued until Myra died in 2012 or 2002. I'm sorry.

But so she was literally trying to trying to manipulate this poor woman whose daughter she brutally murdered into dropping her campaign against her getting out of parole so that she could go for parole and not have her blocking it. What a sick twist. Like she's a sick fuck. They both I mean, Ian is just as sick of fuck as we will see. But Myra just she really tried until the very end to play that victim.

I just I it's crazy to me. I didn't even realize that victims families could be contacted by the murderer. Yeah, it was unbelievable. There should be some like, you know, how murderers can't like people in jail, can't write like she couldn't write to Ian. Yeah. There should be another thing where you can't write to the fucking.

Well, actually, her and Ian did communicate at one point, did well there. And and there's always loopholes.

John Kilbride's brother also was contacted Meira. They spoke Theodosia. So let's let's start with Meira. Okay.

I took a trip to L.A. and I was on Hollywood Boulevard, and there is someone getting a star on the Walk of Fame and it was Mr. 305 Pit and himself.

Myra Hindley is called the most evil woman in Britain. I believe that she was born July 23, 1942, in Manchester. She was born to Nellie and Robert Bob. I love the name Nellie.

Her father, Robert, fought in World War Two, so he wasn't actually around for her birth and he wasn't around until she was like three or four years old.

She was raised mainly by her mother, Nellie, and her grandmother, Ellen, OK. Now, while the father was away, they lived with Ellen, who she called Gran, OK?

She loved Gran. According to everything. Gran is a great human being who spoiled her. And Grandma sounds like a gem.

Yeah, she got along with Gran really well. When her father got home from war, they moved into so they had moved in with Gran while he was gone, but then they moved out.

When the father came back from war, they moved into a house that was like really close to grandma's house. So the whole family was on like one little neighborhood. They had another daughter, Maureen.

On August 21st, 1946, Maureen and Myra became like best friends, like they and they remained best friends.

This all sounds great so far.

He had so Robert Hanley had a tough time adjusting some PTSD. Probably he had become an alcoholic. He was very abusive. Who knows if PTSD was involved because it's not like World War Two was a great time. So when he got back, there was suddenly lots of fighting between the parents. And when this happened, Myra would walk with her sister Maureen down to her grandparents house.

And eventually they actually ended up moving in with their grandparents or their grandmother.

Sure. Because Gran was like, you know what? This isn't an environment. We really don't want you growing up with this violence.

And I'm happy to take you. And, you know, that's fine. And these are the best. She later said any good in me comes from grandma.

Wow. Yeah. So they worked it out as a family where she was going to sleep at Grandma's house.

Ah, they both were going to sleep at grandma's house, but her dad really wanted to make sure that they spent days with their parents and they had meals with their parents.

OK, so it seemed like everybody was pretty sick with this. I get fucked up and start yelling at your mom, let's fish and chips for lunch. I think that's what it was. I think it was like probably as it usually happens, because I find out he went to pubs that night where he would get soused and then come home and it was usually pandemonium. I know what that's like. So it sounds like my entire childhood.

I think it was like before he would go to the pub, things were OK. The like Leghorn. He was kind of a tough guy. But like, I don't think it was as bad during the.

Well, some people are like so different. It's like you can be this amazing person during the day. Yeah. Amazing Dad. And then flip a switch at night. You get soused and you're different.

Do well. Myra was a tough chick. She was a tough chick her whole life. Sounds like she kind of had to be in the beginning. She definitely got what she did. She was taught violence pretty early on, obviously, and her father encouraged his daughters to stand up for themselves, which is just good. Sure. But he encouraged it with violence.

Like, you should punch people if they make you mad. You shouldn't do that. He was a championship boxer in the military and he literally took me outside in the backyard and, like, taught her how to punch correctly.

All right. Which is not like a total bad thing to teach your kid, like, how to sell themselves, but like, he encouraged it to, like, solve problems. And that's not good. It's not how we solve problems.

So, like, when she was eight years old, a boy, you know, she was known like, you don't mess with Meira, like she'll fuck you up forever when her whole life literally she will fuck you up forever.

And when she was eight, a boy was like bullying her and he ended up reaching out and scratching her face. And she told her father this. When she went home, she was like, what the hell is this about?

He scratched my face and her father was like, go find that kid and punch him in the face. And so she was like, all right, so she wasn't gonna get out.

I can't argue that. Yes, you if somebody else throws a punch first punch Harvat. I mean, he scratched you. Yeah, as far as I'm concerned. But here's the problem. So she went and punched this kid. She she comes over and she's like, Dad, I did it. And he was like, I am so proud of you.

So she really and suddenly she got this approval and he's giving her a hug and being like, that's my girl.

So now she's going to beat people up to get love and attention at home.

So now she's learning the violence is going to lead to approval, which maybe later happened in her relationship.

Mm. Not between the two of them.

Yeah, but but yeah. So Meira, we have to remember, is a lying sack of dog shit.

Just to be clear, she said about a hundred different stories regarding the abuse she either suffered or didn't suffer when she was younger.

She at various points, has said her father only abused her a couple times, that she was she was only hit when she was punished, that he beat her and her sister regularly, that he would knock them unconscious for nothing at all.

It's a big leap that he would abuse them so badly that they would almost die. Then she would say her mother sometimes abused them, too, but then other times she would say. She never even spanked us, so she's just she's a lying sex sounds a little confused. She manipulates to get whatever reaction she's looking for at that time.

That minute, yeah, that minute.

You need me to say that he abused me so badly that I almost died. Well, there it is. That's the story.

So we really don't know because what we do know is later in life, he disowned her when he found out what she did.

So he was horrified. Wow.

Well, a good deal. So she also said that every night her father, like I said, would go to the pub, get drunk. He would fight because he was a championship boxer.

So he had that in him and he was like, pull it out when he would get mad at the pub and then he come home and fight with her mother and she said, Mr. Yeah. And then she said sometimes Myra was sent back to the pub to gather his jacket, that he would often take off when he would fight people at the bar. Yeah.

And she said, quote, I never sought to blame him for anything I did when I was older. It devastated him that his daughter could possibly have done the things I did and he disowned me.

But he was far from being a good role model, which of course, not everybody has good role models. But to me, it's Myra being like, no, I don't blame him. But look, listen what he did.

But he did do like it. So it's like you are trying to blame you're trying to subconsciously plant it in everyone's mind that it's probably as well. And it's like, you know what?

Plenty of people have that growing up and they don't do the things that you did.

And she wrote an article in The Guardian in 1995 about this stuff, and she said the violence she saw definitely made her learn about dominance and control, which she later brought into her own relationship and her crimes.

Either way, through all this, she did really well in school.

She was happy in school.

She was apparently like a brilliant writer. OK, apparently one of her essays was so good that they, like, displayed it in the school because she's good at lying, in fact. Yeah. So she typically you can write about those things. Well, she also read a ton and her favorite book was The Secret Garden, which I was like, I don't know, we all read that.

Thanks for ruining that. That's a bummer.

When she was a teenager, she and her girlfriend babysat a lot around town, which is horrifying to think about.

Now, I don't think she was known to be a great babysitter who was wonderful with kids. That's like Marion. Sure. She was a babysitter. Yep.

And she apparently loved kids when she was younger, like so much happened, but took pride later in saying that she did not want to be a mother and that kids sucked when she got older.

It's fine if you don't want to be a mom, but kids don't suck.

Well, and it's weird that you were like so into them in the house, like completely were like, never mind.

But when she was 15 years old, this was kind of like a big thing that happened in her life.

When she was 15 years old, she saw a 13 year old boy being bullied. And because she would stand up for herself, she felt it was because, again, at this point, she loved kids. So at this point, she when she would see a kid being bullied, she stood up for them like she was not a bully. She stood up to bullies. Yeah. Everybody, this is so weird, isn't it? So weird. So she saw this thirteen year old boy being bullied.

She stands up for him, fights the bully and is like, get the fuck out of here. Good. Eventually these to her and the kid that was bullied become best friends I love. And his name was Michael Higgins. And they were together all the time and there were only two years apart. So it was crazy. But one day he asked her to hang out by this old reservoir. Yeah, I used to hang out there a lot romance and she had made another plan.

So she was like, no, I can't come.

Well, later she heard all this commotion was happening by the reservoir.

Oh, no, she ran to the reservoir and she sees that they are pulling Michael Higgins out of the reservoir and he had drowned. Oh, no.

And so she feels extreme guilt for that because she said up till the end, if I was there, I could have helped him.

Right. It survivor's guilt.

It is so totally so. She left school at 15 years old to start her life. This wasn't uncommon at this point because he said it's like it's before the sixties even. Yeah. So this was just, you know, she's a girl. She's so at this time of life, she's a girl. She's going to leave school. She's had to learn how to type. Yeah. She's going to learn how to type.

She's going to marry a man and she's going to pop out some kids that are like, well, let's get it.

Somaya at the time wanted that was ready for that.

She was like, all right, let's leave school, start this whole shebang, go and find Emily. Well, she also got super into religion at this point, which l o l yeah.

My being into religion, like, really, really.

In 1958, she started taking classes in the Catholic faith at a monastery monastery of Saint Francis, I believe it's called.

She had her first communion that same year. So she was like really committed to it. Her family was super happy about this. They gave her this white prayer book that was inscribed and shit.

And that was later taken into evidence when she abducted and murdered children with her shithead existentialist wannabe boyfriend. So they took in her prayer book as well. And we'll talk about so. Then she starts, so she's super religious now she's she's dressing modestly, she's got a set of morals for herself, she decided that she is not going to have premarital sex. She's a virgin at this point. So she's like, I am not. I'm saving myself for marriage.

That's your thing. So she started working at a car sales places like a temp clerk kind of thing. Yeah.

I mean, who really gives a shit what she was doing? There are literally but everything was going fine.

People there thought she was fine. Then one day she gets her paycheck and they used to give the paychecks and cash.

She got a dream she loved or bad. She left and she comes running back crying and saying she lost the envelope on the way home.

I don't believe. Well, all of her coworkers, they felt really bad for her. And they were like, oh, that's awful. You just lost like a whole weeks of pay. Like, that sucks.

So they all pooled their own money together to give her her paycheck, this lying sack of shit, her money back. Yeah. So they're like, oh, that was really sad for her. And then a couple of weeks later, the exact same thing happened.

Oh, it's oh isn't it so sad how like some people it just it's always them just accidents happen, you know what I mean.

So the coworkers didn't believe that shit. No. They really were like, you got our money last. Yeah. As soon as it happened the first time, they were like, no, that doesn't happen. So they were like, no. So they start being very wary of her because all of a sudden she's like trying to con them out of their own position. And she's like, woman, no, thank you.

Now, this probably I mean, helped her practice for conning the grieving mother of a child she tortured to death, probably campaigning for her to stay in prison forever.

So good for her for, you know, practicing Roman of the century. Practice your craft. Exactly. So then in her late teens, she suddenly decided, you know, I want to change again. I want to change my look. Oh, I get a little bored of my look. She's of dark hair.

Like I said, she was ugly ason, not you.

Nothing helped her. She was right till the end. I was going to say not sorry. I know that she lightened her hair but didn't do doesn't always do a lot for people. If anything it just drew attention to that McGahern. Sometimes it makes it worse. Kind of did. Bleaching your hair is not always necessary. Yeah. Because that's, this is what she did. She dyed her hair platinum blonde for the first time.

We're not all meant to be platinum. Meira No. And she started wearing heavier makeup. She really went with eye makeup like heavy lined eyes because again, this is like, you know, the 60s.

Somebody on Twitter said that she looked like a drag queen. And I was like, how dare you drag drag queens like that? Well, I think my response was she wishes. Yeah, yeah, she does. Because Drag Queen does way more beautiful. Yeah.

No, this girl is not. But so she's wearing more makeup and you know, she's wearing her hair in that big poofy bouffant.

Yeah. Like 60s hairstyle. Like the beehive. Yeah. And her sister Maureen who is the younger sister remember started doing the exact same thing. Cute. She didn't die your hair blonde. She kept it dark but she was doing the eye makeup. They look very similar in pictures. Just one is black hair. One is.

Well, I'm sorry Maureen, which is sad because you like she obviously looked up to her and they were so close. Yeah. That I be like if you just became a crazy murderer. Exactly. And you be like that's what I'd be real weird to be like. Who am I going to do this podcast? I'd be real weird.

Well, she started getting a little attention from men. Oh. You know, so she was like because obviously Platinum Blonde some sometimes it doesn't matter what's under it, it's just a platinum blonde.

I, like a lot of people are very like just immediately attracted to that hair color because like Bolds and. Right. And whoa, you know what I mean? Especially at that time in the sixties, you're not seeing a ton of platinum blondes walking around like peroxide blondes.

So all of a sudden men are like paying attention. And she's like, hey, oh. So she's like she's like a Myra, what's up? A mirror and a murder people later.

But she's now remember, she's newly religious, although she's liking this attention, she's still trying to be very modest and she does all this with her platinum blonde hair.

So she's trying to, like, get the attention, but she doesn't really want to become like anybody else. I really get it. But it's a fun game, Myra.

So when she was around 17 years old, she was reintroduced to a guy who she had gone to school with. She had known for most of her life, but she hadn't seen him in a while. Yeah, his name was Ronnie Sinclair, and they started dating and everything was fine.

She later described him as like boring and kind of reminding her of her father in the way that not only the abuse of her was going to say, but in the way that he was very working class.

And like he always she said he always had grease under his finger. How horrible. Yeah. My friend Ian have a very such God complexes like they both think that they are admired all everybody.

And she said he used to have grease under his fingernails and it reminded her of her father. Like this working God just means he's earned in his paycheck.

But he wasn't a bad guy. Well, he wasn't abusive. He wasn't he was just a nice guy. He just worked. Exactly. And they started dating. And when she turned 18, he proposed to her and she was very excited about this at first, like super psyched and a big deal told their parents and her dad was sick. But her mom was like, I'm not psyched, and she was like, why? And she was like, this is your first boyfriend.

Yeah. Like you shouldn't marry your first boyfriend, which I'm like, good for these advice, you know, because you could have just sat her down and been like, this is your life now and deal with it. Right.

But then you look back and you're like, maybe you should have married Ronnie. Yeah, because maybe, I don't know, would all this have happened if somebody didn't go along with you to do it? I don't know. So she's not psyched about it. So suddenly she's she's like, all right, mom, whatever. And then all of a sudden she's like, you know what? You're kind of right. And she starts seeing things that are annoying her about him.

And she's looking around saying, I don't want this life. I don't want to be saddled with anybody.

So this is already starting the wheels. Turning now, December 1960, she switched jobs. She's not at the card place anymore. She switched a couple of times to different jobs, is like a typist, but she never really stuck any for where she had to learn how to type. She wasn't doing this. And she ended up getting a job as a typist slash secretary at Millard's merchandising. OK, this is where she met Ian Brady in Face Brady.

She said it was love at first sight down it, wasn't it? Oh, I think it was love at first sight for her. Oh, no. She's saying for her, OK. She rightly admits he did not pay attention to her at all. I love that. Now, she referred to it later as, quote, an instant fatal attraction. Oh. And he was not interested in her at all. At first. He completely ignored her and she was obsessed.

And I feel like people like Myra to like being ignored makes you want it even more.

And I think it was also having to do with you, with her newly blonde hair in the way she was doing all her stuff to like all the makeup and hair and smoky. She was getting a little attention. So the fact that he wasn't part of that attention, she was like, why isn't he turning and looking at me kind of thing?

I think I have these abilities with my eyes, blonde hair, like I have peroxide, hair gel. She's like, you know how much my fucking scalp burned to do that? She's like, everyone loves peroxide hair. It's true. He actually says later he did not like her peroxide hair. Oh, really? Yeah.

And I'll discuss it more later. But to me.

He saw her as his equal later in their desire to cause chaos, and he saw her as someone who was as ruthless as he was and someone who he could be very confident around because she worshipped him so much.

Yeah. So it's never a simple attraction physically. I think she was she was very attracted to him, but I do not think he was attracted to her at any point. I just don't think I mean, who knows?

He's never he's never said he was. So he's very cold. That would that would lead you to believe that he was not.

Yeah, it's I don't know. So Ian Brady, he is known as the most hated man in Britain. They have good likeness. Yeah, they have good nicknames.

She's the most evil woman. He's the most hated man. OK, he was born January 2nd, 1938.

He's a Capricorn, the Capricorn we love because she's a Leo, in case you were wondering. And he's a Capricorn. And that makes me sad.

He was born and he was born in Glasgow, Scotland, and his mother was nineteen year old Maggie Peggy Stuart, and he was born in rotten row maternity hospital.

That makes a lot of sense, which I was like, wow, sorry. If you're born they're bad, but it's quite a name.

I will say he was actually initially named Iain Duncan Stewart because their last name was Stuart. OK, so his father was not present. He possibly died a few months before his birth. That's what he was told. Aha. That's what I found in a lot of sources. But then he later said that he didn't think he died and that he was led to believe that maybe he just left, OK, didn't. But his mom didn't want him to know that.

That's nice.

His mum was a good mom. Oh, she she struggled. But to me she was nineteen. She cared.

Yeah. About him and tried to do the right thing with him. So what's her deal. So. So what's her deal. So she was a waitress at a tearoom. She was nineteen years old so she decided that she, she was trying, trying, trying to take care of him. But what's happening was she wanted to go back to work so she can make money to afford the room she was renting and she needed somebody to take care of him.

She couldn't afford somebody to take care of him so she couldn't get a job. She couldn't get the job. It was it was a cycle of things. So then she does kind of a strange thing. She puts up this, like, advertisement at a local in like a shop window, and it says that she'll pay someone one pound a week to look after Ian while she worked, OK?

And it was raining literally. Anyone will know it was kind of an unofficial adoption.

Basically, she wanted to be able to see him and she wanted to stay in his life, but she needed someone that could essentially take care of him. OK, so like not like watch him like.

No, not like a babysitter. She was asking for someone to basically openly and she wanted to be, but she wanted to be part of. So an open adoption. Yeah. And so she saw this as the only way that he was going to get like a real life.

That's really sad. I mean, to make that decision. Yeah, I feel it. Feel bad. And so this woman named Mary Sloane and her husband, John Sloane, saw this and they were like, we will take him.

They had two daughters, Jean and me and a son named Robert already.

Ian was like four months old by this point. OK, so at least he's not, like, old enough to remember.

You know, he was they were happy to take him. They were known as a warm and loving family, but they were also not super. They were pretty poor themselves, but they took care of their kids. Right. And that's all that really mattered. She was like, as long as you can feed him and house him and give them love him, that's what I want.

So he was told very early on that they were not his biological parents, OK? And he was fine and he called them and.

Well, yeah, sure. So Scottish. I love it.

And he said they were super nice to him. They loved him. They gave him everything he needed.

He never felt neglected. Yeah.

But he said he inherently felt like kind of an outsider because he knew he wasn't one of the siblings, but he still was very close with all that's understandable. But he was a good kid. He had a lot of friends, again, good home life.

And he even says later that he was like I was pretty spoiled for them being like as bad off as they were financially.

He's like we lived in like a two bedroom house with like a bathroom outside. And he was like, but they literally spoiled me. Like I was the baby of the family.

And his mother came all the time. She came every night and all weekend. OK, so that's amazing. Yeah.

And so she would bring him gifts, she would bring him clothes, whatever she could afford to bring him, she would shower, she cared about him.

And these people were obviously great people. So like all the sat essentially taking another person into there. Exactly.

And he eventually was told that this woman was his mother. They were like, this is your mother. He was happy about it. He was like, cool. So I get to hang with her.

This is like a weird almost like Ted Bundy. Yes, it's very weird, except she was like his aunt for a minute, except they were so honest with him.

You were like, these are not your real parents. Here's your mother. This is the situation. He was like. It was like Ted Bundy done right? Everyone was happy and harmonious, everything was fine. He did great in school. He excelled in writing in English, just like. Interesting. He says he didn't believe in God right from the jump. OK, immediately question religion and was an atheist. He was like right from the jump. In fact, he said at Sunday school, which they all went to, they would ask like, who believes in God?

And he would not me like you would immediately say it like he and he had right from the get go. No reason for it.

He just said, I just always felt that way are going to get mad that I left at that.

Oh, whatever.

OK, I'm I'm like atheist agnostic. So I'm agnostic. I don't necessarily believe like God, but I know, like something's open. Yeah. Something's going on and I don't know what but and everybody is entitled to their own.

Yeah I have.

I would never tell someone they can't believe in God or Jesus or whatever you want to believe and believe what you want to believe. I believe in Santa for a long time. There you go.

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So again, he was doing great.

He ended up learning to play the piano. They taught how to play the piano. He loved classical music from a young age. You read very hey, I like classical but I read voraciously, which stuck with him for his whole life.

He was a crazy reader.

Yeah, and one big event in his early life that was pretty traumatizing, kind of like Myra was when he was playing a game with his friends called Catch the Hugi. What is a huggy? Well, the game was that these kids would wait for a passing van or like a trucker.

I already hate this. They would jump onto the back of it and hold on to whatever they could hold onto on the back of it. And then they would just hold on as long as they could and jump off. That sounds so early 60s, like late 70s. This was actually like 50s. Oh, there it is. So it sounds old. It does.

Well, one day they were playing this and a boy jumped on, but he slipped off prematurely, rolled under the wheels of a truck that was behind the van. And Ian said he didn't see anything but a brown child's shoe filled to the brim with blood in the middle of the road.

So that's kind of traumatizing. I'd say that will change you. Yeah, that's no good.

And at one point, his birth mother, Maggie, met a man who wanted to move to Australia.

So Maggie left. No, he said know. So he was like she was like, Ian, I would like you to come with us. And he was like, no, I don't want to leave the Sloanes like this. My family and my friends are here. So his mother refused to leave him and just left the man.

Wow. Which I was like, Meg, if that it only happened to me, man. Shit, right. Shit like that's that's good. Mommy, that is. Good morning. My good for Meg. You don't just take your kid to Australia because I feel for Maggie. I do too. I do. So she tried her best chef and there was just she couldn't do anything. He was who he was. Yeah.

But that's the only shit. At the end of the she gets mega screwed up. She does. She should have gone to Australia.

She should have just went to Australia because of wanting to better it anyway. No but then his mother met a man named Patrick Brady.

And they decided to move to Manchester, England, so away from Glasgow. I was like, wait, they if there all right, no, but I was like, oh yeah.

This made it difficult for Maggie and Ian to see each other all the time. So they were the visits are starting to dwindle. They are keeping in touch. But he starts rebelling a little bit and using a teen almost seems like a young kid. He's like a young teen, I'd say like. So this this started to bother them a little bit. Yeah. But it didn't become like a big thing. Like, he doesn't talk about it like it was.

He was like we saw each other sometime or like talked, you know, like it was fine.

And he ends up really liking Patrick Brady. Cool. I get along but he becomes inbreed.

Exactly. This is when he begins.

Everybody said that they noticed he was bringing like a little like flip knife over around with them all the time, which is not like out of the ordinary, especially teenage boys and love knives.

Well, then he started becoming a bully and he was starting to become like a real alpha and he was making kids fight each other.

He was getting in fights he had. And then he started hanging out with troublemakers.

And these troublemakers were at his beck and call kind of thing, like it was start. And that actually stayed throughout his life.

As soon as we get into, like, making other people fight, that's just bizarre and yucky.

Yeah. And he this is something that was his whole life. He was he was a bully his whole life. He was kind of an alpha. His he had like a pack of and he always had someone who could do shit for him or with him like Meira.

Yeah.

So there is a rumor, there's a lot of rumors that come with Ian in particular. Meira doesn't get as many like rumors about her upbringing as he does.

So a lot of times people want to find a reason, right. So people will associate things with people that just aren't true.

Right. One of the things that one of the stories that gets told is that one day he tied this kid to a pole and got some newspaper, put it around the pole, wrapped him in it, and he tells all his friends who are there, I'm going to light them on fire and watch him burn to death.

Oh, and the other kids are like, what do you like? Excuse me? And then he lights a match and throws it on the newspaper.

Now, this isn't true. The kids freaked out. They got the kid untied. They saved him. Ian was pissed that they let him go and the only kid. But the problem is the only kid who is saying this is the kid who was tied to the pole. He's the only one that tells the story. Well, yeah, all the other kids don't say because they just have to go against.

And even though now was he or now he's dead. But when he was the one he was. Yeah, he would. He denied this. He was like that never happened.

He's like what this kid is thinking of was role play. We would always play like war games and like fucked up games. When we were little, we were fucked up kids. Like that's what happened. Yeah.

He was like we were like jumping on cars and holding on, like we did weird shit. Right.

And he was like, we would pretend to be like war criminals and like holds people. And he's like, I never let anyone on fire. I never tried to. And when he admitted all the horrible things he admits to raping, torturing and murdering children with, like, no hesitation is like, yeah, I did that.

Like, there's really no reason to deny that. And he says that he's like, I think people just are looking for little like signs. And he's like, there really wasn't. I was just a shithead. Like, that's just so that's weird. And it's like, I don't know what to believe with that. I mean, I want to I believe the kid who said it happened, I was going to say, well, yeah, yeah. That's just that's what I'll you know what, guys?

That's what I'm going to do. You heard it here first. I really believe the kid that was tied to the pole. So that's typically do whatever you want, not the guy sitting in the jail cell. Yeah, exactly.

And so in 1946, when he again, when he was like eight or nine years old, the Sloans took him and his siblings on vacation to Loch Lomond. He said that this was the first time because he had lived in like cities like small, like slummy kind of cities, too.

And he this was the first time he'd seen wide open spaces, which anybody was like, never been around.

Wide open spaces can. It's overwhelming.

Like the first time you are.

You just start like it's like the first time we went to the Berkshires, I was like, yeah, well, it just blows your mind, like it's just something different. Yeah. Never seen. So he says, quote, I was shattered by the sense of vastness. This new sense of reality and freedom was intoxicating. I was in I was encountering the naked essence of life itself. This was the earth in CinemaScope.

That's exactly what I thought of the first time we went to the Berkshires. That's exactly what one day of Earth and Cinema's Urgo in cinema. So I was just like, whoa, that's big.

Well, the reason I say this is because this was his first time where he was like, wow, like the beauty of wide open spaces. And later he would use Satah worth more as this awful nightmare place. But he spent so much time on it and it became such a giant fixture in his life. And that is weird that it became something he loved. So this was the first time he was exposed to that. And I think it's important now.

I just keep thinking into the great wide open. There you go. I don't want. I'll be thinking about Tom Petty, how no, you don't. And you really don't. So his first girlfriend was like 11. He was like 11 years old. I know.

I said that is like a and I was like, oh, what what would it be? Shocking.

No, no. He was like 11 years old when he was first up.

And early on, he this is just a very interesting thing that comes up a little later. He discovered very early on that he when he kissed someone, he liked to kiss them violently.

He he described it as violently, which to me, I was like, oh, I don't think I had a very visceral reaction to reading that.

I was like, no, that makes me feel young. And then I was like, what does that mean? Did he just, like, grab their head?

He said he liked, like, when your teeth knocked together and he said he liked when blood would flow into your mouth and mix with the other person.

That's never happened in my experience of making out with like anyone.

He liked to draw blood when he kissed people.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was like, yeah, that's not weird at all.

It's like, no, that's weird. So in 1950, that's when his mother married Patrick Brady and Ian took his last name. Now Ian starts at this point committing. So he's like an early preteen. He's committing breakings and he meets he now has a gang head of like troublemakers and they're breaking into houses. They're stealing shit. He says sometimes they were just going for the thrill of it and wouldn't steal anything. OK, but it became a lifelong thing where he would steal and burglarize.

He began dating a girl.

I'm not going to name her because I can't really find because that poor, poor girl and I don't really know if it's her actual name that people are using, so I'm not going to say it.

We're going to call her Emma Eliška.

So she started dating a girl named Emma for a while. He was obsessed with her and he was obsessed with eyes. He had a thing with women's eyes. He would have loved you.

I know. And it gets even better ready. He was obsessed with almond shaped eyes.

Girl run and you have like fucking orange eyes, which is the weirdest.

I have so scary. So he was and he said that over and over again that eyes, almond shaped eyes were like his thing. And he was always very I can't picture my mirror does not have almond shaped as she has big eyes. So he's like fuck her. And he did say that her eyes were the one thing he found. She does. She does have giant eyes. Yeah. I'm picturing and he did mention her eyes were the thing that like he actually was like, I can't get past the rest.

It's like I can tell the rest of it. Just look at the eyes. Look at the eyes, but knock her teeth out.

These two men dated like on and off throughout their lives, kind of like they were like passing by.

And one was the one that got away. I think she was like they were always dating other people and kind of like fucking around on each other. And then they would just come back together and then break up again. It was just one of those things. But one quote he had about her, I was like, yeah, that shows you exactly who he is as a person. Oh, no.

He said, quote, Her ears were shell like small and pink. My only interest in them was that I wanted to bite them, OK?

And he told me today that I had small ears. Maybe she wanted to bite. Did you want to bite my ears? Hell, no.

So when he was 15 years old, he also left school because again, that's kind of like the age.

Yeah. Point, you know, when you just leave school the age you step out of school. I tried. So people you decide you gave it a valiant effort to get it. I barely went. Yeah. So people say this is another thing.

People say he became obsessed with Nazis and shit. Oh, fuck. But in his own words, he was fascinated by Nazis and he was fascinated by like Hitler and the whole thing.

Again, it is fascinating. World War had just occurred.

And he said, but I was more fascinated. I was fascinated as much as anyone else was, you know, and he wasn't a he said he wasn't obsessed.

He really didn't, like, seek out a ton of information. He would read a book here and there. But he was like the whole thing started after they were arrested for the Moors murders because it kind of helped people validate their own feelings of being like tied up with some ideology like Naziism. Right. Mean.

So he basically thinks people who are obsessed with Nazis and Hitler also want to bring him into that and just be like, look at these people are in your career, you know?

I mean, but other sources I read contradict that. And they say, no, he was he would read Mein Kampf and he would read a lot of like German stuff. And he always wanted to be the German Nazi soldier when they played war games. And he would do Nazi salutes.

And like he was he was he. At one point I read that he collected Nazi memorabilia and but he himself. But again, he's an unreliable source because he's a bullshit. Right. So he himself says he wasn't more into it than anyone else.

But take from that what you will. Yeah, because we'll never know.

It is weird that he, like we said earlier, will admit to like torturing murdering children, but. Not yeah, what happened before that, but then later, we're going to see soon that, like little bits of this Nazi stuff do creep in. Well, to me, I think he was a little fascinated by it, more fascinated than most.

And I think it's almost kind of a scare tactic for him to be like, you know, I'm just like this.

I'm just no lead up to it and brought no signs. So I know maybe he probably he probably was.

I thought he was I would say he was probably more fascinated than most of us. Yes. And maybe brought it into a weird place because I'm actually not fascinated. I don't know anything about it. But like, you know, his history is history.

Historians are, you know, I mean, I think he was definitely on a different level. Sure, sure. Sure, sure.

Now, he and his gang of thieves got caught and they got caught 15 because someone snitched snitch, just get stiffed.

So he found out who this guy was and he tied him to a tree and put him on fire.

No. And waited 10 years for his revenge. Well, that's just fucked.

He said, quote, I found his address and went up the stairs of his block 10 years later in order to knock on the door and shoot him in the head. As I approached this door, a woman came out of another door on the same landing to beat a carpet on the stair rail. I remember she was using a clover shaped beating stick. I had to turn away and walk down the stairs on such little things. People's lives depend. What the fuck?

Holy shit. Like he's just like we would be in trouble when I was 15, so I'm going to shoot you.

But this lady with her clover beaten sticks saved yoa. Yeah. And then he's just like, huh. Such weird things. Funny lives depend. Life is so funny. Is a good fucking Æon such a dick. Like he's just when you hear him talk it's like oh god. I also I get like Ed Kemper vibes where he just fucking loves to talk. He does. So he definitely has. Edcon provides in the sense that he likes to talk about themselves.

But Ian Brady unfortunately was highly intelligent, like Ed Kember's too though he was too.

But on like a different way. I don't know how to explain it.

It's like, yeah, I get what you're saying. It's like very far up the scale. Unfortunately, it's not a good thing.

But he also discovered around this time that he was bisexual. Cool. And it turns out that mirror was also bisexual. OK, and this might have been something else that like, you know, they had in common. Yeah.

Because again, at the time, it's not like everyone is running around being like, am I right? And so I think it wasn't even a word for it at that point. I don't even know. So I think them having that in common at that point also drew them together. Once they discovered it, they had some stuff in common. Yeah. So the gang, the you know, the gang of thieves that he ran ran around with, they got caught several times and even had a few probation's like a few times where he had to serve probation.

But that comes back for him later as well.

So one the I think the last thing that people usually get wrong about Ian and this one, they actually do get wrong because it's proven he denies harming any animal.

And I know this is like a thing, because when I read it, I was like, oh, good for you. Like, you you murdered children.

But OK, I'm glad you didn't hurt a squirrel.

But a lot of people like will say these whole things of like how he was murdering, you know, he was killing animals and skinning those. It's a sign, again, because it's one of those things that you just expect of a murder, like a Jeffrey Dahmer, you know what I mean? Yeah.

So he's adamant that the rumors about him harming animals when are completely untrue.

And he has had so when he was younger and living with the Sloans, he had three rabbits, a big grey called Jenny, a black one named Harry and a small one named Smokey.

Oh, he had a black and silver German shepherd called Una and a cocker spaniel named Sheila. And everyone who knew him said that when Sheila died, he was inconsolable.

That's like was it Israel Keyes who was super attached to his animals? And it's a weird thing. And he wouldn't go to a house with an animal. Yeah, yeah. He and Myra later, because Myra also loved animals.

We hurt and him and Myra later got a dog and named it puppet. And they loved that dog. They treated that dog very well. And you can see that pup in some of the happy photos they took together on Saturday. Swarthmore's Wow.

The ones that they took after they would bury a victim there and they would mark the graves with a happy, smiling photo of Myra holding the dog.

I didn't know that on the graves. Yeah, that's how they and we'll talk about it later. But unlike the second part of weird, that's actually that's actually where they found a lot of the victims graves was by those photos. Wow. Yeah.

So the date in the Daily Mail, they had an article about this and they said that a lot of sources will claim things like he imprisoned cats, he, you know, crucified frogs, he would slice up caterpillars.

He would behead rabbits and put their heads on a pike and that later he got a job at a slaughterhouse. And that's where he really got a taste for blood and gore.

Know that. Just the making out, that's all. Exactly. That's all untrue. He never worked in a slaughterhouse. He was a butcher delivery kid once, something very wrong, but he never worked in a slaughterhouse. And he cried when his dog died and also when he was younger.

He remembers this very vivid thing of seeing a horse being injured and seeing the horse being put down and it destroyed until he died.

In fact, the way he describes it is this, he said and the reason I'm saying this is because you're going to see how he goes very deep into how the emotions of this horse were the thing that, like seeing the terror in his eyes, like, bothered so he can I know my emotion.

But you saw terror in children's eyes. And you like what? It's on a different way. It's like very strange.

It's like such a dichotomy of he has two very weird, compartmentalized versions of his Capricorn.

I know.

I don't know. So he said, quote, It lay there with its massive sides heaving in its breath, steaming the frosty air. I was near enough to touch the large head. I can still see the great liquid eyes rolling in terror, looking up in the gray Glasgow morning sky.

It's great FedEx raised ergs.

Yeah Raque to the air, but draggled and wet, a man appeared from nowhere to erect a canvas screen around the Clydesdale. They were going to kill the horse. Even I knew it. My chest was bursting and I began to cry. I fought my way through the mass of bodies and ran to Camden Street trying to hold on to the bag of hot rolls with my hands clasped over my ears. I sat on the tenement stairs until the tears dried up before taking the rolls to my car.

I was afraid to wander near the spot where the horse had died. I couldn't bear to see the remains of bloodstains and hairs. I couldn't read the event and seen from my mind. And then he said, many years later, I saw something in a dark railway arch that triggered the image of that Clydesdale suddenly changing my relaxed mood to one of ice cold fury and leading to a frenzied knife attack on a man in the street. I didn't hang around to check whether it was fatal.

It was enough for me to feel that the Clydesdale had been avenged.

So he just knifed a man to feel better because he had a case of the Sade's from seeing an injured horse when he was little. What? No, sir, that is not how that we're not that's not how we process trauma.

I saw a cat run over by a car on Halloween night when I was like 12.

That's horrible. I didn't knife anyone because I glad I don't feel I need to avenge that cat. I feel bad about it, but like, I'm not going to go avenge somebody, you know, like, that's fucked.

And it just shows like, how can he feel that way about an animal? That's the weirdest thing to me because.

Like what? Yeah, well, either way, the way he says it is, I could never have brought myself to kill sheep or cattle. But the idea of killing people never bothered me in the least, obviously, which to me, the one thing I can say is it seems to me like he started realizing that he just liked animals more than people.

Just I mean, people do, actually. Yeah. And he just kind of was like, this is what I enjoy, which I mean, I enjoy animals more than a lot of people seem. Not to that extent, though. I like my cats a lot better than I like anybody else.

And to prove his commitment to animals, the proceeds from his autobiography entitled Blacklight, by the way, he wrote an autobiography.

It he had it split between four pet charities.

He really showed his family. Well, I'm like, why are you such a shit person? Isn't that a thing? Now, if you read a book from jail, it goes to the slightly different law.

But back then it was not.

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So this is when he got the job as the butcher's delivery driver and he used this job to chase houses for burglarised. Great. Yeah. So he bounced around from job to job a bit.

He's like here's your state. Yeah. Evaluable.

He's like just want to check around real quick. He ended up getting an apprentice job at a shipyard and he was just doing like loading things and working in the market there.

And in 1953 at fifteen years old, he got caught again for burglarizing.

And this time he was charged with nine counts of burglary to him.

He ended up going on probation again. And but this time they were like the Sloan family. His family was sure by this point they're like he's going to go to prison because they were like he's they're like it's caught up to.

Yeah, they were like I don't think because he he was initially given probation, but then he had to appear again for a couple more counts. When he kept breaking probation, they were like, I'm pretty sure they're going to give him jail time now, like, I don't think he's going to get out of this. But the judge was like, no, no, no, it's fine. We'll just deport you from Scotland.

But that's where he was from, right? Yeah. Where were they going to deport him to anywhere but Scotland, which is a bummer for him because he loves Scotland.

Yeah, but it's his birthplace. That's where he lives. So they were like, all right, you can leave now. So he was like, cool.

I guess I'll go live with Maggie, my birth mother in Manchester, because she's living in Manchester with Patrick Brady. All right.

My stepfather, Glory, Glory Man United, he was very he was devastated to leave the Sloan family, but he was like, you know what?

It'll be nice to live with my birth mother. And he literally had no other choice. So he was like, and I have to remember so and also God can't feel anything about this because it just he was like, I don't want to go. But when I got to go, well, eventually he fell in with some friends there. Once he moved, he it was pretty quick that he. Felt pretty comfortable, you know, he was just drinking at pubs and chasing girls, he was just like, you know, being a person and doing you have to you can do about petty theft.

He got like his own little gang again. It was like everything was fine. He actually got a nickname, Mack the Knife.

That's I don't like they originally called him Mac, but they changed it to Mack the Knife. And accordingly, he only liked to be called Mac.

He did not like Mack the Knife because it's stupid, but not because it's stupid. It was because he didn't like people knowing he carried a knife all the time because he was very obsessed with surprising his enemies.

Oh, good. So you didn't like that?

It gave them like a heads up that he had a knife.

Who did you hear that thunder. That was crazy. Thunder It's Bugsy from below deck. I don't know what that is. OK, OK.

So you grew very close to his stepfather, to Patrick Brady. The neighbors around them said they seemed they all seemed very happy together, living there. Yeah. That Ian was always very respectful of his stepfather and his mom. But some other neighbors were like, yeah, he was pretty quiet and like fine and respectable. But sometimes he would make some, like, racist remarks.

Oh, so it's like, oh, no.

Well, and you said like the Nazi. Yeah. So to me that's like further proof that he kind of had that ideology.

So this is around this time is when he started buying cameras and he became very obsessed with filming things, which obviously comes back later.

That's one twenty two tendencies of the so-called sociopath. I just said he was a sociopath. He was a different kind of path of a sociopath, actually. It's also it's of a sexual status. Yeah. There you go.

Well, yeah. He was that so well. Well, at work one day this was a big thing.

Oh.

This truck driver or a lorry driver pulled up and asked in, you know, you look well. You see, it's contagious hard. It's hard to talk. So he said, well, you load this sack of lead seals. It was like this equipment. He said there they'd been discarded on the docks. And he was like, were you load these into my truck because I'm going to take them.

And apparently it was pretty common for truck drivers to do this and make some extra money. And Ian just didn't think about it. He was just working as an apprentice and a truck driver asked him to do something. He did it. It was his job. So he loaded the stuff and just went about his business.

Well, it turned out that the lorry driver was selling it and he got caught.

The person who bought it from him was like, wait, this is stolen. Oh. And he called the police.

And the lorry driver was like, Ian did it like basically implicate like to put past the bar.

Yeah. So suddenly Ian's in trouble, like out of nowhere. And detectives detained him. They questioned him, but he was like so he just told them everything because he was like, I figured if anything I get a fine because I didn't mean to do it right. And he was like, and it really wasn't that big of a deal anyways. But I was like, so I was honest with them. I told them everything.

Well, he was pissed because they put him in front of a judge the next morning and the judge was like, yeah, you're going to wait three months in jail because you pled guilty to this. And the next time we're going to do like these trials for this is three months.

So he was like, are you fucking kidding me? That sucks.

So during this time, as when he read the book Crime and Punishment by just Dostoevski Dustups, Dostoevski Dostoevski. There you go.

I can never say it. I'm good at German. Well done.

I had a Ohmar once. Well they go Dostoevski.

Is that German or Russian. I don't know. I think it might be Russian.

I don't know motherfucker. Either way. You did a great thanks. I appreciate it. And this is when he starts like reading books on like nihilism and existentialism and he really considered himself an existentialist. So he believed that, you know, everything is entirely up to him as an individual. He could live in whatever manner he chooses. No wrong.

And he could have his own moral code that doesn't work like that. And again, he was also a nihilist. So he thought that life was there was really no meaning to life.

Maybe there's not meaning. Maybe you can have that. Yeah. And he said, you know, the universe has no purpose.

There's no one dictating this. There's no fate. And that religions just just really a delusion that people have and that he was the only one who understood this.

It's like a little bit sad. It's very sad that it's a little too bleak for him. It was very bleak, that is for sure.

And after three months, he went back in front of the judge and they gave him two years and they sentenced him to do these two years at a training camp called The Borstel, which was apparently four people under, I think, the age of twenty three.

And it ended up being like a military kind of training saying like boot camp. Yes. And he was transferred to Hatfield Borstel, which was a military training camp.

And this was specifically for one one for men or young men, really boys and men, that they didn't really have a crazy criminal record.

And also they were above high intelligence.

So this was for like those who became Cadet Kelly. Exactly. Exactly. But after being given a psychological exam, they deemed him unfit for military service makes a lot of sense.

It's like good on them.

So he was transferred out of there because he got drunk on prison booze one night, which attacked a warden. So they transferred him to a very harsh borstel, which was located in Hull prison.

And this is where he spent a ton of time learning to brew his own alcohol.

He became an alcoholic. Then he became very hardened. He started making lots of contacts, were like with people on the inside that later he could use bad shit.

And he learned accounting because they realized that because you had also learned how to balance the books, he also was crunching numbers. He was into assets. And the other thing, you know, debts and debts. No, they just discovered that, like, he was a really smart guy.

He was very talented in numbers. So they were like, you know what? You can do the bookkeeping cool. And he learned it.

I don't know if it helped him later. It's a very valuable thing to have on your list. I mean, I wish I was that good with numbers, but he was released at 19 years old. So he went back to Glasgow at this point and he was eventually just trying out more jobs, you know, going with his probation. But this is when he vowed revenge because he was pissed that he had been put in prison. He was going to ask for one telling the truth and two for something.

He was like, I was just trying to help this truck driver out. And he turned on me. He was like, he really wanted to find the truck driver, but he didn't.

I'm surprised he didn't show up on his doorstep. And he said, quote, If they wanted me to be a criminal than I thought to myself, I'll be a proper one.

And that's like so teenager. I know.

If if you think I am, then I can be like, OK, well, then he claimed that he stabbed a guy during this time and he said about it, he was like, I don't know if he died or not. And then they were like, why did you do that? And he said quote, There was a reason I felt justified at the time. OK, OK, that's OK.

No further questions. Mr. Brady, what else are you going to ask? All right.

So his probation officer was like, you need to get a real job. You needed to got a career. You got to stop stabbing people just because you feel like knifings. Listen, Mack the knife. Drop the knife. Yeah, like, chill out.

And he was 21 years old at this point in 1959. And he was like, fine. So he's was like, I'll get an office job, OK? Like, I'll really balance the book. And he said, quote, If I hadn't been so forced, I wouldn't have ended up with Myra Hindley as my typist and been brought down by existential folly. Before that, all my objectives were mercenary, which means like, you know, motivated by money.

He was like, but, you know, then all of a sudden I had a higher purpose. Oh, yeah.

So at this point, he had also really come into, like, personal style at this point, like pictures you see of him, he's always wearing like a three piece suit.

He was pretty stylish. Well, it's weird. Like he just like was that's I don't know, he's jazzy. Does it fit with his personality? Maybe. I don't know. His hair is also is like slicked. Oh, he had a very like that.

What's it called. Bufano. Is it a bouffant pompadour.

I almost just said pottsboro part. If he had about how to be like OK, he had a ballet move, but we're nearing the end and it's very hot this week. And I was just I was like, people are screaming at the, like, stereo that they're listening to. But I know I'm a fucking hairstylist, too. Yeah, he had a pompadour and like he just like he loved the three piece suits. He always got them tailored perfectly.

He was just very meticulous that way. The reason I say this is because, like, Myra tried to kind of match that style later.

And to be honest, they were very nicely dressed. Couple between the two.

They loved Banana Republic. They were still high class.

So this is when he started working at Millard's merchandising with my I keep busy.

I keep saying with Roy because of Schitt's Creek, this was February 16th. Nineteen fifty nine. So initially, like I said, not indoor, didn't I didn't even remember her really when they first met he said quote and I quote, Oh God, this is such a dick.

He was like he knew how obsessed he she was with him.

She could at least bullshit later then be like Yeah no Olina life doesn't matter. So he said, quote, She was simply the new typist. As far as I was concerned. I paid no more attention to her than I did the rest of the females on the staff.

That is to say, very little. I can't recall having any memorable conversations with her. It was just standard routine office dialogue. I didn't go for her peroxided hairstyle.

I quoted Dick Cut and Dry. What a straight up dick.

So at this point she saw and she wanted it.

She's like, I mean like my peroxide hair. You like you do. So she ended up breaking off her engagement. Tharani right. He was devastated. He obviously tried to get her back. He would like call her all the time and said, it's OK, you won.

You did do. You really did.

So she also started writing constantly in a journal that she kept. Work and locked in her drawer, so weird. The first entry in the journal, Ian looked at me today.

No joke. I'm just going to give you a couple of other entries because they are less like, yikes, Ian looked at me today.

That's enough to journal about July 23, 1961. Wonder if Ian is courting. Still feel the same. OK, the 20th, July 25th. Haven't spoken to him yet. July 27th spoke to him. He smiles as though embarrassed. I'm going to change.

You'll notice that in the way I write. I'm going to change. I'm going to like I'm going to change for him. Like you're going to notice.

This is August 14th. I love Ian all over again. He has a cold and I would love to mother him, you know, live here August 24th.

I'm in a bad mood because he hasn't spoken to me today, man. August 29th. I hope he loves me and will marry me someday.

Wow. That escalated quickly.

Myra was in trouble because a psychiatrist of Brady said about him, quote, Brady is intelligent, tall, charismatic, engaging, interesting to talk to, widely knowledgeable about certain areas of life and extremely self-control. I like that she threw tallit.

Yeah, he is able to dangle you on a string if he knows that you want to know something about him and he doesn't want you to know if he doesn't want it, you won't learn what it is you want to know.

He sounds like the best time. Sounds scary.

Sounds like a lot of exes in that Guardian article I mentioned that Mayer wrote in December 1995. She said, quote, For almost a year during which I broke off my engagement, he took virtually no notice of me.

I was a year of emotional torture, which I'd never experienced before.

I went from loving him to hating him and loving and hating him at the same time, when he smiled or was even a little nice to me, I felt blessed and floated on air. She also explains how she obsessively stalked him outside of court, hoping to see him in bars near his home and then walking her baby cousin in a stroller by his house, the address of which she overheard him saying on a work call.

Oh, yeah.

Eventually all this commitment that she had paid off for I mean, work hard for what you could because she was also a voracious reader and she would read at work on like lunch break, and he would, too.

So they have that in common. So one day he came up to her and was like, what you read in?

And they started talking about books. And that was how the conversation began.

Then in 1961, their office had their Christmas party, and it was after this party that he asked for their first date.

So they met at the Three Arrows pub. They saw a movie afterwards. And after the movie, they got another drink and then walked back to my house.

I'm confused about why he even wanted to, like, hang out with her, though, if he didn't think of her much.

Well, I think it was because, first of all, like he could see that she was also into, like, reading and then they were interested in the same books.

Like he was like, oh, I want to read that. And she was like, Oh, I want to read that. So I think he was starting to see, like, maybe she'll think like I do. OK, so he also just wanted to give it a shot. So they went back to Myra's and he's walking her there and they start like making out on the street and he back her lip the first time they kiss.

He also said because they were like because again, he's a very violent kisser and she loves him.

He felt that she was wearing a girdle under her clothes and he told her, I don't like girls. They accumulate stale sweat and she never wore a girdle again.

He's not wrong. But I was like, Wowza. I would have been like, all right. I think this is our first date. You assaulted me. You insulted me.

I'm not into it. So they went out again the next day, which was Christmas Eve. They went to a church service, which I was not psyched about.

I know when they left, he actually peed on the side of the church and said, this is what I think about religion.

They went to Myra's house and fucked by the fire.

All right. And that's when Myra lost her virginity. So she remembers seeing herself or maybe saving it for marriage. But then Ian came sauntering in right after church, right after he defecate.

Well, he didn't defecate, insulted your church, and then he met her father and mother.

Her mother was not into him because her mom was.

No. And her mother said he's like your father. Oh, like she was like, good, good.

Try with that. And then the father liked him a lot. He was like, you're like one day.

And she wrote in her diary, quote, Ian is so gentle he makes me want to cry.

Yeah. That's what she wrote about him meeting her dad, to which I say, yikes.

Yeah. Now he had a motorbike that he had gotten recently and he would just randomly stop by her place without announcing vroom vroom.

And she stopped going out with friends or going anywhere just on the chance that he would stop by.

So you can already see this is becoming a very sad, very like it's not even like he was like, you need to be home. She was like, no, she was like me. I will be. I must see his three piece suit and perfectly quaffed pompadour so you can already see how the power dynamic is in this relationship to further show how different they view their relationship. In 1962, she wrote in her diary, I've been at Mill Wirth's for 12 months and only had just gone out with him.

I hope Ian and I love each other all of our lives and get married and our happily ever after.

Yeah, good luck with that sister. And of this time, Ian says, quote, I behaved as though nothing had occurred between us. This was a difficult from my point of view, nothing had mirror should accept that face or find some loser in pastors knew she could do whatever she wanted.

I intended to. Oh, what did he say, Jack? That sounds like every dude every day is like, what a dick.

So either way, they hung out a ton. They started hanging out on Satyal worth more.

And this was a place they would go to walk.

And after spending a lot of time exploring there and hanging out and admitted that they did grow close to virtually living together, it was like point. Eventually I let her shoot her. She was fine. You felt like he could speak freely around her. And like I said, it seemed like a soulmate kind of thing and not a sexual attraction thing. Yeah, he said it seemed like Ian just liked that he they understood each other. OK, so they had a lot of discussions about creating their own lives and how lives their lives were, what they make them.

They didn't want to be hammered into marriage. They didn't want kids.

They said life's what you make it. So let's make it right. Exactly, exactly what she said, you know, and Montana.

That's why I didn't know that. So she was like he was like a cult leader with her, like to the point where she would just be entranced by it. But he didn't even have to do like he wasn't even trying to be like that. He wasn't manipulating her. She was just entranced by him like anything he said she was like, yes, yes.

And with those like at in her eyes, he later said, quote, When we were together, there was a third entity, something intangible, that possessed a power beyond both of us. We were both conscious of the joint momentum developing into an advocate in evocative united force.

So he's saying, well, the two of us together, we're a fucking force and we can feel it coming, like we feel like they're giving themselves a little too much credit.

I feel like they both just wanted to kill.

They definitely I don't think there was like a black arrow around about Ian Brady is he thinks he is so much more than he actually all that negative.

He thinks he's Hannibal Lecter. Like he needs to calm down. Right. So she said, quote, Within months, he had convinced me that there was no God at all. He he could have told me that the earth was flat, the moon was made of green cheese, and that the sun rose in the west. And I would have believed him. He became, my God, my idol, my object of worship. And I worshipped him blindly.

I just couldn't say no to him. She ended up having nicknames for each other. She called him Netty because it was after, like the show, they loved the Goon Show.

There was a character on there because there are a couple of goons, you know, and he called her kiddo. That makes it it's so patronising to me. And they also had a secret code where if they would raise their eyebrows, eyebrows twice, it was called the Groucho and and it meant follow my line.

So it was like for them to be like, I'm looking at something over here, look at it with me.

And then they would say they said, well, then because both of them were bisexual and very, like, open with their sexuality. Sure. They would say D.C., which meant which meant delicious creature. And it was to be like, this person's hot over here.

Oh, wow. Yeah. So like that you're alone. You're like, wow, that would be cute if you guys didn't suck.

They came into this us against the world kind of thing, which we see in a lot of these situations.

They decided they hated everyone and everyone was even stupider than they were and everyone else was expendable and they were above everybody. Now, shut up. Myra molded herself into what she thought Ian wanted her to look like.

And basically he kind of told her what he what he liked to cheer it on her blond hair.

Nope. She kept the blonde hair, but she used to dress, like I said, like pretty modestly and normal.

And she started dressing in like very like provocative things, like to get attention. Yeah.

She would dress up in high heels and boots, which is not like crazy, but for her for her in, like, short, tight skirts, she was like, I'm going to change showing the bosoms a little bit. And this goes back to the Nazi thing. And this is because Ian has said that he had a real infatuation, infatuation with a woman named Irma Gracer. Now, this woman was an SS guard at the Nazi concentration camps of Ravensbruck and Auschwitz, and she served as warden of the women's section.

And she's known to be like ruthless. And she was known to like dress in the dark, like SS uniform would know what I mean, like that kind of thing.

And Myra carried her photo around. That's weird as shit. Yeah.

And she also said she this is later. She said she was like, you know, I loved him and he was so hot and blah, blah, blah.

And then she was like, but he couldn't kiss for shit because he's fucking insulting your face. And that's when she was like, yeah, he always drew blood when he. Yeah, that's not enjoyable. So this is like real. Now she's head over heels and transfer him. He's feeling like they're unified at least, and they had a live fast die young boto between two of them.

So that was their thing. Oh they're just getting so lame. I was going to say I literally hate them at this point.

So he said he made sure that, you know, this is an open relationship.

I can fuck whoever I want. And she was like, cool, no.

Now he and he introduced her to like classical music and the books he read, he very much influence her in that way.

He's like this showing her this book.

Then came the weird discussions. Ian brought up enemies and the idea that everyone has an enemy and everyone has an enemy that they would like to see die.

And if you say that you don't, you're lying to me as if she had anyone that she would like to see dead.

And she responded, Ronnie Sinclair, that's not fair. It's all locked up. And then he was like, All right, give me details. No. And she got really vivid and cold about it. And he said he she actually surprised him with how ruthless she was when talking about it. And she said she wanted him to be humiliated before he was killed. You already did. You fucking left. And no reason she wanted to watch. She said she would feel nothing for having anything to do with his death and told Ian, quote, I want him to be terrified, Netty, to know that he's going to die.

Then they went to Seattle worth more and planned it out and said that they can make it look like an accident.

So he followed him home into work several times. They were really going to do this. They plotted they planned this meticulously. It never happened.

I wonder why. And he got into a motorbike accident shortly after the planning process started.

And I think it just got like shifted to the wayside. And they were just like, and we'll do that.

We'll do that in ten years.

So Myra claims that he threatened to kill himself if she left him. No cue to which he says, quote, She flatters herself.

Oh, I just love the quotes between the two of them are so funny to read later.

She said later he did say, of course, we were in love, OK? And then he said, at least you said that we wanted to go down together at the trial, which is true.

And we'll talk about that at the trial. So he does admit like we were in love. Yes, that is the thing.

They were definitely into, like super rough sex between the two of them.

I can only imagine with the way that he kisses, kisses to draw blood so you can take what you want from God. Myra said she often had to drink in order to, like, really get into it. They drink a bottle of wine a day.

She said, oh, together I'm surprised they weren't more bloated. He also had a thing where he liked a candlestick shoved up his ass, which I just think is funny.

Because, fuck you, that also reminds me of what's that show, Shameless, here you go. So that yeah, that's him. Then they had pillow talk and the pillow talk would suddenly turn into his fantasies about raping and killing a child and not getting away with it. So here we see how Myra's not this innocent victim because she was like, oh, tell me more like right after they fucked and they wanted it to be the perfect crime and they started talking about it real.

I'm not really like, you want to buy a big house someday. Yeah, but no, he was like, I would really love to abduct and murder a child and not get away with it.

And she was there. Sounds great. Did he ever come up and say why children know that's so? We don't know. Well, yeah, he never really explains it.

Well, when talking about this, Myra said later that she just liked swimming against the tide and not doing other things that people did or doing things that people wouldn't do.

So she just like going at like killing children, which is like. Yeah, like swim against the tide of like people eating tide pods that tide swim against that.

But the tide of people like loving and cherishing and protecting children or just not caring about like just ignoring children, go with that flow, swim with that tide, like you have to give a shit about children, just ignore them.

Right. Like why this is not a tide that you swim against. I don't understand. So he had her read this novel by my 11. It was called compulsion, I think. And it was a fictional novel that was took basically was based off of Leopold and Loeb.

OK, well, that was a big thunderclap to him and he which we covered in our first live show. We did.

And so this was obviously a fictional telling of this killer or these two killers killing a child basically for thrill. And these killers thought they were above everything. They thought they were smarter than everyone. And he was like, use this as a manual.

This is who we are. No, so not.

She read it and they were ready to go. So Ian showed her how to conquer her emotions, she said, and how to appear levelheaded so people around them would just think they were a normal, decent couple.

And Ian said the way Myra was infatuated with him and looked up to him made him confident that this was the time to begin killing children.

So it was like, Thanks, Myra.

So they got a black van and they drove around Manchester to find kids and start this whole process. So Ian took photos of children playing, which they like, compensated these later.

And there really is he took photos of children playing and like. Yeah, and they went to like Myra's old school and took photos of children outside. They followed children took notes. They discussed how to lure one into a van since Myra was a woman. And she figured children would take comfort in that.

Aha. And they planned to bury the children they killed at with Maurice. And they visited the spot several times. They plotted it out.

Ian would hold a mirror and she would go limp like a dead body so that they could practice carrying a dead limp child across the moors.

Oh, and they did this several times.

And Myra admits this. She did this happily, she said, because she said she wanted to do this, like, let's do this, huh?

She said, quote, I was considered good with children, an excellent babysitter, and able to put children at ease. Could I therefore be considered capable of child abduction or violence towards children?

Apparently, to which I say yes.

Yes, you can. Yeah, girl.

Now, we're going to end it here, because right after this is when they started their reign of terror and now you are caught up after almost two hours.

Damn. Two hours. Yeah. OK, so that is Myron Ian. Yeah, that is them getting up to the point of planning their first murder.

That's fucked up and it's going to be rough in part two, because we are coming up right to the murder of Pauline Reed, who was their first victim. She was 16 years old.

Oh, and yeah. So hopefully you guys are hopefully I've given you enough ammo that you are just feeling so much rage towards Ian and Myra because shit's going to get so much worse. I definitely feel a lot of rage. Yeah.

So that is that's their tale. Up until now, I don't really know how to tell you to follow us on Instagram. Yeah, but you can do and you can do it at morbid podcast.

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Morbid podcast at Gmail Dotcom. We hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it.

We're going to see whether you die.

Your hair, platinum blonde, you're like, oh my God, I'm going to get this cool guy name and I'm going to write my diary about it every single day. I'm going to be like, oh, my God, I'm going to change for you and leave me reading this book.

I love books. Let's go kill kids. No, don't give it away. Don't fuck about.