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[00:00:00]

Hey, Weirdo's, I'm Allena and I'm Ash, and this is morbid.

[00:00:24]

Another morbid, this one's gonna ruin your life.

[00:00:27]

Yeah, yeah, guys, this one is yeah, it's going to ruin your life, I'm fairly certain. Awesome. Yeah. We came up into the pod lab and we were saying, like by to align his mother in law. And I was like, see it a little bit. And then Ilina was like, you're going to come downstairs much different. And I was like, she's going to come downstairs mentally scarred for life. So thanks for that.

[00:00:49]

So I can't wait for the scarring process.

[00:00:52]

Yeah, this one's going to be a doozy, and I might as well just say it right out front.

[00:00:57]

This involves rape, murder, children, just terrible shit. Everything that you can imagine being wrong with the world is in this story.

[00:01:05]

I will tell you, I'm going to give you all the details that I feel are necessary. But I you know, if something was gratuitous, I you know, it's a child really gratuitous.

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I love it. If something feels gratuitous, I'm not going to include it.

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But you're going to get a whole picture and you're going to get details and they might be uncomfortable details.

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So I just want to be upfront about that.

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You should you know, if it's not something you're looking to hear, there is going to be another part to this series. The next the part three, I'm going to cover three of the murders out of five today because I think five will maybe make us all implode. It's a little too much. No, thank you. And I'm going to cover the last two in the next episode and we'll cover the aftermath and all that craziness in that episode.

[00:01:49]

So it'll be a little more or less like to, you know, in your face three, there's going to be two that are going to be like really in your face and then the rest will be a little more perfect.

[00:02:00]

Yeah, I'm pretty excited about it. I mean, it's kind of bad all the way around. But OK, I'm trying I'm trying to make it less horrible, but I can't.

[00:02:08]

Yeah, well, we have palate cleansers for these episodes and we do.

[00:02:11]

We got we got some weakness. I broke. It's OK. It's normally me.

[00:02:17]

And you know what, it's just been a lot of reading books about these two fucking assholes.

[00:02:22]

So I, I had a nightmare last. I did. I had a nightmare with Ian Brady in it. And it upset me when you told me that you had a nightmare, I was like, oh, good. So I'm just going to need like extra therapy this week because I was reading it like fart.

[00:02:35]

I was reading it like far into the night because I was trying to go over like another side of a story. And I it just was too close to bedtime and it just did a number.

[00:02:44]

You should have watched Hamilton again. Ilina made me watch Hamilton with her last night.

[00:02:48]

And then I got a four. Oh, I really should have. And you loved it, didn't you? You know what I fucking did I ten. I just keep singing. You'll be back. Yeah. Like fifty four. That's all I can sing without getting sick. Yeah. So I like Hamilton now. I guess that's a new update in our life. Yeah. That's a new true crime update to do with this. Another update. Is that the Michaels Halloween section.

[00:03:11]

Yeah. Guys get on it literally has nothing to do with anything we were just saying. But just to talk about my week. Yeah. I literally bought so much shit for Michaels today to decorate my home for Halloween and it just feels good that it's spooky season.

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It's here guys. It's here like pre October is days away pre October.

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For those of you who don't know, is September exactly the one I coined September as pre October. I'm seps like, I don't even know what that means. Yeah, that's not even a thing. And we're ready. We're going to get a projector this year and watch horror movies in the backyard and we're going to try to make it fun for the kids since they won't be able to trick or treat.

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Well, yeah, they can come to my house and trick or treat. Yeah, we'll come back and watch Hocus-Pocus and it'll be fun. Everyone's like, it's August.

[00:03:55]

Yeah, don't worry, we're planning. OK, so let's get into the horrific side of it all. So yeah, we're going to get into this. Oh, before I jump right into the case, I just want to mention one last thing. It's very quick. I mentioned all the books that I've been reading for this case. Last time I mispronounced one of the authors names. It's Dr. Alan Keatley. I think I said like Knightley. Oh, because words are hard.

[00:04:17]

I Keatley though I believe I looked it back. I think I looked at the word and I just found an end in it somewhere. I just made it sound like my brain, just like the next word. But I just. Yeah, and but it's a really great book and he's a very good resource. And I didn't want to like, not say his name.

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Right. So, yeah.

[00:04:35]

Dr. Alan Keatley, Ian Brady, read that book. It's great.

[00:04:38]

OK, so the last time we left you, you know, my friend Ian, we we went through their backgrounds. They are together now.

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They just decided they're going to kill children.

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And yeah, they've discovered that they're very in sync with their needs and wants. And they've decided, like I just said, that they want to rape and kill children together and then they decide to just pillow talk.

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Yeah.

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Basically after they're like weird sex that they had good.

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Where he just, like, viciously attacked your face and was like, let me claimer my teeth. Exactly. Yeah.

[00:05:11]

So Ian at this point is 25 years old. Holy shit. He's literally a year older than me.

[00:05:16]

Yeah. And Myra was 22. Wow. Which puts it into being so young because you feel it.

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I don't know why I felt like they were older. No, I did, too. It's not like these are mature things to do, but also I feel like in all the pictures I've seen of them, I'm like, whoa, you're a rough 22 sister. I mean, they both had they had a rough go at it.

[00:05:34]

Yes. So, I mean, they wear it on their faces, both of them.

[00:05:38]

So what we learned was that they have been visiting Satyal worth more a lot.

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And that's where they decided that they wanted to use it as a killing ground and they wanted to use it as a burial ground because of the vastness and the quiet and the distance away from civilization. Nobody really is there. It's very lonely and desolate. It's like the perfect spot for them to get answers.

[00:05:59]

Well, I found out one extra thing about Satyal worth more that I thought was interesting. It has had a lot of like spooky, like weird things happening. And in 1949, 24 people died when a plane crashed on Saturday worth more.

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Oh shit. Which I had no idea it was on a flight from Belfast. People did survive it. I think only eight people survived it. That's crazy. One doctor at the scene said, quote, I found bodies scattered all over the moors.

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There were very there were a few survivors lying, groaning on the hillside, but some of them died before I could attend to them. I have been a doctor since 1914 and served in both wars. But this was the worst sight that I have ever seen. Got so already this place has like serious, dark, ominous energy.

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And we heard from a few of our UK listeners who are like, I live near those moors or the like right next door to me, or they're like right down the street.

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It's crazy. So, like, I love hearing that, like when people were saying that and I was like, that is fascinating because you feel like they're not real. When we're over here, we're over in the United States. It's probably how people feel about, like the Bridgewater Triangle. Exactly that. And we're like, yeah, we live there. They're like, what? But like starting to feel real. Like it doesn't feel like Sadiel worth more is a real place, even though it is.

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So what they've decided now that they're going to start, you know, assaulting and killing children is that they are going to have to form a code to do this way.

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And Myra didn't decide this and decided and they already had, like, that little code where they would raise their eyebrows at each other.

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Oh, this is a different kind of code, like not the code. Like I'm warning you about something. This is like a code, like a moral code to.

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Oh, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

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So this code is like rules that they're going to follow so that they don't get caught.

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Did they, like, write this shit down? They did. And it was Ian who was very serious about this code because he he wanted to do this forever. He was like, he's a Capricorn, right? He sure is.

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It makes sense that he had to write down his fucking plan to you know, whenever I see things like this in this case, like as a Capricorn, I'm like, I get it. It makes sense that he was like, listen, friend, we're going to write everything down. We're going to do this my way.

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He also had we're going to find out soon after they murdered, they had a he created a checklist for them to go down to make sure that they got rid of all the, quote, what he called forensic.

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So so he's a he's very much a Capricorn through and through Vasher, but like the worst kind. So this code, the first thing about in this code was the most important thing, and it was no connecting threads.

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OK, so he was like, there cannot be even one tiny thread that connects us to the person we killed.

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Right. It has to be like a completely random person that we don't know exactly.

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He was like, no way can we ever be connected to this person. We can't kill people. We know we can't kill people that our friends know.

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It has to be a completely random thing can be traced to us, which is, I guess, a good thing to start with if you're going to start murdering people.

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They also write that down.

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Yeah, I mean, don't but then he also said we're going to have to make sure we get rid of any tire marks, any footprints. We have to make sure there's no hairs, fibers, fingerprints. We have to, like, go down the checklist to make sure.

[00:09:12]

And then he said we have to go to these murders with a set of duplicate clothing so that we can take off the closing, closing we use, tear it up into little pieces and burn it, OK?

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And that makes sense. Again, everything has to be cleaned immediately, including the car that we use. It's like has to be done that the second we are done with the murder, we are cleaning everything. You're not spending you know, we're not going to bed and then waking up in the morning like right then and there, it's happening like right there.

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And he also had a luggage like a a pair of luggage that he brought to where did he bring, oh, the Manchester Central Station. And he kept it in the lost luggage. And he used that for what he called incriminating evidence.

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And he just tossed it in there. They were locked.

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So like nobody could get into them except for him. But that's where he kept all the things that he didn't want them to find in his home.

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That's like really smart and legally crazy way. He's so intricate you shit. And they said and they didn't want to, you know, because he said basically we should destroy all evidence, like we shouldn't keep anything. We shouldn't do anything, no trophy.

[00:10:21]

But then he was like, but if we do, we should put it in the luggage. So it's like, well, you're kind of are you breaking your own code there?

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So he also said we have to have false plates on all the cars that we use. We have to destroy the weapons afterwards. So if we use a knife, we have to break the blade off the handle and we have to burn the handle and melt the blade.

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Jesus Christ.

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Yes, I'm like, ah, what are your days off? Also, I'm like, how how long did it take you to come up with all this like that?

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I feel like you've been thinking about this for a while.

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And then the last thing was we they had to make sure they had an alibi of some sort.

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So they would like go to the movies and get a movie ticket or maybe, you know, make sure they talk to their mother before they did this.

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And it had to be they said it had to be viable, this alibi for up to 14 days. Well, we like leading it would check out for that like 14, like it would like if you looked at it a week later, you could still be able to recall exactly where you were. If somebody said two weeks ago, what did you do on this day? Right now, you'd be like, I don't I have literally no way. And I would be like, I.

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I have no idea what I did on that day. He was like, oh, no, we're going to know everything we did on that day.

[00:11:32]

So you have to make sure that at least 14 days out, you can remember every detail of it to him during these economically turbulent times.

[00:11:45]

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[00:13:57]

Yeah, I would have had trouble with that one. Now another like interesting rule that he didn't make official, but he did mention it later. And I just thought it was interesting because I'm like, what? Oh, God. He so this came about when they went on like a quick little getaway to Scotland.

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I mean, Meira once like during a weekend because he would take during their day off.

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Yeah. You know, you would take her back to Scotland and like show her his old hangouts like you would in a relationship.

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I mean, well, they were in a relationship, I guess. And oftentimes, you know, it was Scotland and, you know, the 60s at this point, the late 50s.

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Early 60s. Yeah. A lot of kids were just like playing outside.

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A lot of them by themselves. Yes. Like, it happened all the time.

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And he said often Myra would say, why can't we pick one of these kids? Yeah.

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And he would always say, I would never harm a fellow Scots kid while so he said, absolutely not. We will never take someone from Glasgow.

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I feel like that makes sense because the Scottish Cup is not a murderer, obviously. No, but I feel like that like it makes sense. I like knowing a Scottish person. It makes sense. It does. It's like when he when I read that, I was like, as weird as that sounds, I'm like, yeah, I got it. I get that. Like, Scottish people are like we're all brothers. Yeah, we're all brother.

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And and so July 11th, 1963, we're about to get into it.

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Everybody holds on to those books.

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Like I said last time, Gorilla Glue for the Booty. It's going to get bad. So he has the so he has those two luggage bags and he leaves them at the Manchester Central Station because they're ready. They're ready to go. Now, they know they want to do this. They're start code is in place. Let's get it.

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He said, yeah. So now Meira said later that she never knew what was in those bags. She never opened them. She never knew it was probably a lie. Right.

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I think I think mostly everything that Meira says is a lie. The reason I think this is because she gets proven wrong quite constantly and she lies to the victims families.

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Outright reactions in court. What moral code does she have? Yeah, and it's like she lied about the Lesley and Downey shit. Like she said she wasn't there. She was running a bath and which we'll get into in part three. But it's like then she was caught.

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She didn't think they would ever get that tape and they got the tape and they find out that she was willing and she saw the shit in the bag she brought because I feel like I picture her more wanting to take something that I picture Ian wanting to take something.

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And you know what? You're right on target. There he is. You will see she kind of fucks up at one, two years into the podcast. I figured it out and now you figured out the code. So, yes. So she said she's never seen what's in them. I think Dr. Alan Keatley was the one who spoke very often to Ian Brady. Yeah. And Ian Brady often contradicted what Meyer said and was like, yeah, OK.

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She can say, I'm like, here's the proof for this. He was and he would often. Yeah. Like be like, here's the proof.

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But he I don't think he ever would answer that question of whether she had seen what's in there or not.

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So they both took that answer with them. OK, basically we know what's in there, obviously. Right. We we don't oh, we don't know what's in. I don't even know where they went. Oh, shit. I know. So it's weird. So they planned that if so they were going to go out and they were going to look for someone. They never had someone in mind ahead of time. They went out hunting. Right. And they picked the person right then and there and they had the plan in place, but they picked the person on the spot.

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That's always scarier. It is.

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So they planned that if they didn't find someone the following day by 8pm that they were going to abort the mission and wait a while, OK, that was their plan. And they also, again, wanted to establish alibis by starting home.

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They were like they wanted to start at home in the evening and be there up until eight o'clock. Right. So so Friday, July 12th, 1963, they both went to work. They worked a normal day to like five, five thirty.

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And then they were like, all right, we're going to go out hunting tonight. That's what they were going to do Friday night. So they went to Gordon Lane to go hunting. That was nearby where they were. And Ian was at his home first and he prepped ahead of time.

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And he got so he what he did was he put like a band on his wrist. And in that elastic band, he put a like a knife, like a sheath knife, OK? And he put the handle towards his hand so he would be able to, like, pull it out, flip it to. Yeah.

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And he also had another knife in an oiled sheath. OK, which if anybody can tell me what like an oiled sheath would do, would that just make it easier to pull out at a moment's notice? Yes, I'm not sure.

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I'm just saying no. I have no idea it would, but I don't know if that's the reason for it. But, like, I doesn't know if you maybe it's so that the knife didn't rust.

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I oh, that that could be it. Oh sure. Why don't you also put on surgical gloves as one does and to hide that because that's pretty like oh hi, I'm my son.

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He put on leather riding gloves over his surgical gloves. All right. But his hands were nice and clammy, real gross and. And so he also had his camera because remember, in part two, he had bought a camera and he got really into documenting a lot of shit because he's a sexual sadist. Sure is. And if you Google Ian Brady and Myra Hindley, many photos that he has taken come up, you know, things they're not like gruesome or anything.

[00:19:15]

They're just of the two of them, like they took a lot of photos of each other.

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So he had his camera and he also had a pair of binoculars, OK? And those things he had hidden ahead of time in Myra's van.

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OK, now, if you remember, Myra had borrowed a black van from a neighbor. Oh, she borrowed it from a neighbor. I think they got it.

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They eventually the neighbor does give them the van. So that was good. But they individually just borrowed.

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She's like, you can keep the van. You got that van. That's all for you.

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So the binoculars were used because they he wanted to be absolutely sure that no one was in, like, miles radius of what they were doing. So they would use the binoculars to make sure there wasn't even the slightest movement out of the force.

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Like they were very paranoid. This is so fucked up. But I'm picturing like a silent film of them getting ready. It's true like a black and white silent film, because he's wearing like a three piece suit. Yeah. Which is very silent film. And then she's like dressed in like the 60s, like. Yeah, like femme fatale. And then I just picture him like looking out like. Yeah. Like side to side with the binoculars. You can hear like the weird like that and I like her like going out to like start the van.

[00:20:23]

Yeah. I brainwork some real what a fucked up silent movie. Yeah.

[00:20:27]

So at 745 p.m. Ian went downstairs and he saw his mother Maggie and he saw his stepfather Pat Brady and they were watching TV I think at the time. And he just said, hey, is the clock right?

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And they were like the smart right. And so they were like, oh yeah, the clock's right, it's this time, blah, blah, blah. And he did that so that boom, they would remember, like, that's it was genius. Yeah. So so he did that.

[00:20:55]

Unfortunately, he's smart. And again, using the neighbor's black van, the plan was that Myra was going to be dry.

[00:21:02]

She was going to drive around in the van with Ian behind her on his motorbike.

[00:21:06]

OK, because remember, he has a motorbike. Yes. When Myra saw a potential victim, she would slow down to alert Ian that she was considering on him and he would see this.

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And if he agreed that this was a good choice, he would is headlights at. Oh, my God. But if he didn't flashes headlights, he was like, keep going. So, yeah, it's insane.

[00:21:26]

Imagine picture it like seeing a guy in a three piece suit just riding a motorbike. No. And and Ian Brady, who's this like super guanglie? Like he almost has, like, bug eyes. He does.

[00:21:37]

He's there's a lot there's a lot of evil just showing on his face like it comes out of his face.

[00:21:43]

Now, the reason that they were giving for needing to go to Seattle worth more when they picked someone up because they weren't just going to pick someone up, abduct them violently and then, like, just kicking and screaming because that was worth more very obvious because they had planned this out.

[00:21:57]

They wanted this to be a cathartic and like transcendental experience for the two of them.

[00:22:03]

So they wanted to be able to lead them out to the Moors and then have the experience.

[00:22:07]

They didn't want to have to drag them out to the moors. That ruins the whole thing.

[00:22:11]

You need the drive to the moors to become. Yeah. And like, exciting. Yes, exactly.

[00:22:15]

So the reason that they how they were going to get this kid in the car and with them to settle more was they were going to say that Meira had dropped a glove earlier on the moors and that this glove was very special to her.

[00:22:27]

It had sentimental value. And they would ask because kids always want to help. And they were going to pray on that.

[00:22:34]

And they were going to say, could you please help us find this glove?

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Like they were going to offer the kid like a ride somewhere, like home or wherever they were going, and then go like first. Do you mind if we stop really quick? And I feel like you'll be able to help us, right.

[00:22:46]

So far, it worked every single time freezy. Yeah.

[00:22:50]

So they also had a spade that they are like a shovel that they had hidden in the NRA and they bought a shovel for every murder because they would get rid of the shovel after afterwards.

[00:23:02]

So they were very thorough with cash. Yes, exactly.

[00:23:06]

So they drove down Gordon Lane and Brady immediately sees a little girl, OK, immediately. And he immediately starts flashing his lights because he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I want this one.

[00:23:16]

Yeah, yeah. And Myra keeps driving. She's not slowing down. So he's like, what the fuck? So he he had her pull over up, like a little ways.

[00:23:24]

And he's like, what? Why didn't you pull over?

[00:23:26]

And she's like, OK, well, that's Mary Rock.

[00:23:30]

I know who that is. And she's eight years old. And she said and she is lucky to have escaped with her life because Ian wanted that.

[00:23:39]

Wanted her. Yeah. So yeah. So he was like, well what so when he said like, why didn't you grab her? She was like, I know who she is. And Myra said she her family were neighbors with Myra's mother.

[00:23:52]

Oh. And that's a very direct link.

[00:23:54]

And they were like also in the two of them did agree on this, that she was like also an eight year old is going to make a lot more headlines than a little older.

[00:24:01]

And also, it's a fucking eight year old. Exactly.

[00:24:05]

Jesus Christ, the way they talk about this is like and then we just realized that, you know, like eight year olds, that's really going to get some attention.

[00:24:12]

It's like you're talking about a fucking child, right? Any any human. It's going to make a splash, but especially a child that's fucking eight year olds. You're talking about it like it's a bike. So he agreed.

[00:24:23]

He was like, yep, that would, you know, connecting threads. We don't need that. And you're right. Let's not start off with a bang and get caught right away. Jesus Christ.

[00:24:30]

So they keep going down Gordon Lane and eventually they let this led to fracks Merlene.

[00:24:35]

And on this street she parked the van and they decided they were going to wait, OK, see if anybody walked in and they waited a little while, not too long.

[00:24:44]

And then a young, beautiful sixteen year old girl named Pauline Reed came walking down the street towards the van. Now, Pauline had dark hair and blue eyes. She was like, beautiful. And she was just like, looks sweet.

[00:24:59]

Like you just look at the picture of her and you're like, oh, do you have dark hair and blue eyes? You're just like the prettiest. I know. That's such a good combination. It is. And it's like rare. Yeah, it is. Yeah. So she was wearing a pink and gold skirt, a black dress shirt, a cardigan and a powder blue coat that was like flared out and like had a belt around it.

[00:25:16]

Yeah. She was wearing new shoes that she had just bought that day.

[00:25:21]

They were white heels with like ankle straps on them.

[00:25:23]

Oh my gosh. She she looked fashionable like, look, you look great, girl.

[00:25:28]

But that evening, so what she was doing out at that time and alone was that evening she had begged her mother to allow her to to attend a dance at the railway worker's social club, which was only about ten minutes walk away from her house.

[00:25:42]

And like that, they this happened a lot. Yeah, her mom initially said no because her friends who were supposed to go with her suddenly weren't allowed to go there.

[00:25:51]

Mom said no because alcohol was sold at that place. And so they were like, no, you're not going there. But eventually she did convince her mom that she had to let her go because she was like, oh, other friends are going to be there and I'll just meet them.

[00:26:03]

Right. And so her mom was like, all right. And even after that, she was like, I like struggled with that decision.

[00:26:10]

And like, obviously she, like, kid yourself for it afterwards.

[00:26:14]

It's like that's like the episode we did on the Irish. Yeah.

[00:26:17]

Ireland varnishing Trishul. And it's like, oh, hindsight is always 20/20. And her mother, whose name is Joan, says she remembers getting her ready, doing her hair and makeup.

[00:26:30]

And then before she left, she gave her her favorite locket to wear around her neck.

[00:26:35]

While the way that just like set up. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And like the she literally was like, I'll take good care of it. Yeah. Like that's what she said.

[00:26:43]

And she remembers, you know, saying good bye to her daughter.

[00:26:46]

And that was the last time she saw her life. She says she had left the house at around seven, 45. I just brewed. So she ran right into them. It was like perfect timing.

[00:26:56]

So on the way before she had seen my friend Ian, she ran into her best friend, Pat Cummings, on the way to the dance. And Pat Cummings was one of the friends who was suddenly not allowed to go to the dance.

[00:27:09]

Yeah. All of a sudden, she wasn't telling she wasn't telling Polynice yet because she wanted to surprise her, her mom that said she could go.

[00:27:16]

Yeah. So when she ran into Pat, she was like, oh, yeah, I still can't go. And then she was going to go around a different way and meet her at the entrance and be like, surprised, we got to go.

[00:27:26]

Oh, my God. Yeah. And it was going to be her and another friend. I think that we're going to do this. Everything that's working the way that it's working right now is like horrific. Yeah. And after talking to her, like, really briefly, they did take another way. They walked down Frogmore Street and they waited at the end of this social club and she never showed up.

[00:27:46]

And they just figured, because I guess everything that I read about her, people said she was very shy, she was very careful, she was nervous of like strangers. She did not like fuck with strangers.

[00:27:56]

So they thought she didn't. Maybe she changed her mind.

[00:27:58]

And they were like, I think she really thought we weren't going to go.

[00:28:01]

And she they were like, we were surprised, honestly, that she was like being so confident to, like, just go by herself. So they were like we thought she just went home because this wasn't a school dance.

[00:28:10]

This is like this is just like a dance dance. Right? Right.

[00:28:12]

And so later, Pat Cummings said, quote, When she came to our house, she would ask me to walk her home if it was dusk. She was not the sort to get in a car with a stranger, OK? And the thing about this is she doesn't get in the car with a stranger. She knew Myra.

[00:28:28]

So why don't you go get her?

[00:28:30]

So her full name is Pauline Pauline Catherine Reid.

[00:28:34]

And she was raised as a Catholic. She loved going to mass. She was a good girl. Her parents were Joan and Amos Reed. She had an older brother named Paul, and they were a very close family.

[00:28:45]

Yeah, it sounds like it.

[00:28:47]

Yeah, like she was close to everyone in her family. But Paul and her were super close, like very close siblings. And her and her mother were very close.

[00:28:54]

Yeah.

[00:28:55]

She like I said, she knew Myra and how she knew Myra was she had gone to school with her sister Maureen.

[00:29:02]

Oh. And Maureen was 17 at the time. Right.

[00:29:05]

So she's like a younger only a year older than and Myra had spoken to Pauline's mother several times. You're kidding. They had interacted before.

[00:29:17]

So already you're breaking the rules. Oh, yeah.

[00:29:19]

Well, then Myra's father, like the drunk one, slowly, like, went crazy. And like Ian, he and Pauline's father, Amos, were often together at the pub talking.

[00:29:32]

The two fathers knew each other. OK, so this is like completely.

[00:29:35]

Oh, and just wait, because there's another connection that will come up, what, later?

[00:29:39]

Oh yeah, a little. It just in a little bit. But as Pauline walks down the road, she's stopped by Baira in the black van and she asked her, she was like, Oh hey, do you want a lift?

[00:29:50]

Like I'm Maureen's sister. And she was like, oh yeah. Like I know you look just like fucking Maureen. Exactly. So she agreed because she's like, of course, I'm going to get in. It's like Maureen's older sister. I know her. I've seen her talk to her.

[00:30:00]

So then Myra said, OK, cool, I'll bring you to the dance. And then she said, But you know what? Can we stop at Satyal worth more real quick because I lost a very important glove, yada, yada, yada.

[00:30:11]

Couldn't you help me find it.

[00:30:12]

And Pauline's a sweetheart girl.

[00:30:14]

She's kind, she's helpful. So she was like, absolutely. And again, this is someone she knows older sister.

[00:30:21]

She's just being a good, good person. Exactly. Now of course at this time the signal had now gone out to Brady and he was to Ian Brady and he was alerted to meet her at the code because apparently I was going with this OK, which is not a good idea what she's supposed to do now.

[00:30:40]

He said later. I just have to read what he said about his when he got that signal and he was like, cool, I'm going to go meet them.

[00:30:46]

Oh, man. His inner thoughts.

[00:30:48]

Because you do think about it like he must have been thinking crazy. She's saying, we're doing this. He's watching this girl get into the car and he's sitting there going, I'm going to brutally murder this girl.

[00:31:00]

Right. We're on our way to do this right now.

[00:31:02]

Like, this is the first one. So he later said of this, quote, No one who and this is something that like you don't think about until somebody says it. No one who saw me ride past them on my way to Gordon could have guessed what I was about to do. That's that is crazy. Yeah. It was unfolding before their eyes. But how could they know?

[00:31:20]

They would know many, many years later, but wouldn't remember that I rode past them that night. For me, it was the beginning of an existential exercise to be on good and evil. The streets of Manchester were the backdrops for scene one. This was the one far off event to which my destiny had been taking me all these years. I recoiled at the idea, but at the same time I was impatient for its fruition. The passing the passing throng could not know it.

[00:31:46]

They were cut off from me forever. Something irrevocable was about to happen, which would affect the lives of thousands for decades into the future and soon reduced my life to the status of a ghost on the human stage. I felt a strange sense of nostalgia for the world I was about to abandon, as though in an irreversible final parting was taking place. Was I about to step through the final doorway to madness, or had I already entered it long ago?

[00:32:12]

We don't need the cliff notes for that one. So basically what he's saying is he drove by a bunch of people that day and in his mind, as he's driving by them, he's like, they have no idea what I'm about to do.

[00:32:22]

Yeah, but later when, like, you know, when the story is told, they're going to be like, holy fuck, I they'll find out. And he was like, and, you know, he's he's like, it's going to affect thousands of people. Like this is going to be something that's going to shatter the world like he thought.

[00:32:36]

He's one of those obviously people that thinks a lot about themselves, like they will remember me, Ian.

[00:32:43]

Unfortunately, he's correct, of course. And also he thinks so highly of himself. Just the way he speaks is like I'm so above all everybody. It's like he goes way. He's so hyperbolic and he's so like and like floury with his language and theatrical. It's like, oh, not to feed into it.

[00:33:03]

And he's not above anybody, but the way that he thinks is just so far removed from how anybody and it's unfortunate, but it's it would be a lie to say that he's not highly intelligent. He is more intelligent than many people. You just does it in a very evil way. Yeah.

[00:33:21]

He just tapped into a really dark part of that intelligence.

[00:33:24]

Yeah. And it's unfortunate, but I thought it was interesting to hear what went through his mind, because rarely do we hear what goes through a serial killer's mind as they're about to go commit their first murder.

[00:33:34]

That is very true. That is so planned out.

[00:33:37]

So when they get there, he said, Myron, Pauline, this is what Ian said, that Myron Paulene were smoking cigarettes together, sitting in the van.

[00:33:45]

And he said he looked at Paulene and he said she was very pretty immediately. And in Dr. Alan Keely's book, he said that Ian told him he started to remove the leather gloves as he approached them, but then realized that he had the surgical gloves underneath them.

[00:34:00]

So he was like, oh, shit. So he kept them on.

[00:34:02]

But can you imagine this dude walking up to you and he pulls off his clothes, he's wearing surgical gloves. I be like, whoa.

[00:34:08]

So they started all looking for the glove because that's what they were there for. He was like, let's go look.

[00:34:13]

But my friend Ian had a place already planned out, so they were taking her directly to the place, actually showed no idea. Yep. And they led her directly there. Ian trailed behind them a little.

[00:34:24]

But then after letting Meira know that he was ready to go through what he called the grout show where he, like, lifted his eyebrows. Yeah, he did that. And that was the sign that he was going to grab Pauline and it was going to begin. OK, so he did it and he came up behind Pauline.

[00:34:41]

He grabbed her from behind in what he referred to as a Japanese strangle hold.

[00:34:46]

OK, and I think you probably just grabbed it like don't. Yeah, OK, let's calm down. Let's not exactly.

[00:34:51]

She fell to the ground and they were she was told not to make a sound because it was pointless anyways. That's what she told to literally was.

[00:34:58]

And it was unfortunately, according to Ian, she looked up at Myra and immediately started begging her, Please, Myra, make him stop, because again, she's thinking like Iris girl will make this stop like this can't happen. And he said Myra just smiled down at her.

[00:35:16]

And Ian said that Myra just yelled at her to be quiet again and like in her face, just changed to like she was like, shit, I have no one here. Right. That was immediately she was like, OK, it's just realization.

[00:35:28]

So Ian claims that Pauline also begged Myra to tell him that she was unwell and he was like and he was like, you need to tell me what that means.

[00:35:37]

What do you mean no? Well, and Myra was like she means she's on her period.

[00:35:42]

She's on that time of the month, OK? And obviously he did he didn't care. And she was trying to say that to avoid being raped because he's like she knows what has her on the ground. She can see what's happening. Myra immediately started undressing her as he held her. She begged she begged her to stop the entire time and Myra kept going.

[00:36:04]

They undressed her completely. They raped her together. You know, when they were done, they let her get dressed. But when she went to put on the necklace, Myra grabbed it out of her hands. I knew the necklace was going to come into play.

[00:36:15]

And she said something like, you won't be needing this where you're going. Oh, now that sounds like something out of a movie.

[00:36:23]

And like, you're not going to need this where you're going.

[00:36:25]

Well, Ian was pissed because if you remember from part one, one of his biggest things is he does he wants to be shocking, likes to surprise his victims. He doesn't want them knowing what's happening. Right. And so he was pissed and he said the first thing that he came to his mind was he just reached out and slapped me right across the face, like struck her in the face of it.

[00:36:44]

So confusing for Pauline must have been like, what the fuck? Because they've done this horrific thing to you. Now they're fighting with each other.

[00:36:52]

I'd be like, oh, my God, what's going to happen here? So, yeah. So she he slaps her in the face. And Ian said that he left after that. It just went silent. Everyone just went silent and he said he looked like the dark, deep, oppressive silence.

[00:37:08]

Just hang for a moment.

[00:37:10]

You. And everybody just terror hanging in the air and he right, obviously, and he let Pauline understand and he said that silence was supposed to let her understand that they were going to kill her, OK? And he was like and it did because I looked in her face and it was like abject terror, like she knew great. Then Myra said, out of nowhere, she's Pauline Reid. And Ian was like I say, well, why did she say that?

[00:37:40]

So I think do you think she just realized, you know, she got slapped in the face and then she was like a slap you? Well, guess what, motherfucker? It's Pauline Reid. We just broke our first code. Like, I think she was literally like, yeah, well, there you go.

[00:37:53]

So, like, slap me, I'll slap you. Slap me.

[00:37:55]

I'm going. I just fucked you over, like, sorry. So Ian, what had happened was because he was like, wait, Pauline read what.

[00:38:02]

And he's like he was going to say, does that mean. Well Ian had taken photos of Maureen Myra's sister, like Maureen had asked him to take photos.

[00:38:11]

Yes, he was he was a good photographer. And she was like, can you take photos for me? I want to give it to my give these photos to my boyfriend, David Smith, who was 17 as well.

[00:38:20]

Yeah.

[00:38:21]

They also called Maureen. OK, yeah. Let me he thought now Ian thought that Maureen was more attractive than Myra and let yeah.

[00:38:30]

Let Myra know that like they made it very obvious, again, like Karla Homolka and it's literally the same way Paarlberg Bernardo just forgot the same thing. That's weird.

[00:38:41]

And the whole time he was telling her like how beautiful and he was flirting with her in my room was there in Myra was right there watching the entire thing. Yep.

[00:38:50]

What the fuck. I be like cool then we're done. Yeah. Well and then Myra had so marital. So after the photo session, Myra allegedly told Ian that David Maureen's boyfriend. Yes. Had been seen with another girl recently and she was pissed about it. And she said that girl's name is Pauline Reid.

[00:39:10]

OK, so this other girl, that 16 year old girl that no, it wasn't. She was seen with her, like making out with her. So it was there was a scene together and it piss her off. That's all it was.

[00:39:21]

Now, Myra, initially, when he when she told Ian this, like after the photo session, yeah.

[00:39:27]

She was like, I want David dead. But Ian was like, no, we can't kill Ian like that. Do you see how this doesn't work? Right. We can't kill your sister's boyfriend way too connected. You're stupid. Part of the code.

[00:39:39]

And then he was like, no, what we could do was sometime later we can get Maureen and David to help us, like we can blackmail them into helping us.

[00:39:46]

OK, so he's like they're useful. They're seventeen. Like, we can totally manipulate them into helping us. It's terrifying. So she gave it up. You would think you'd be smarter than to like involve like young people. You would think.

[00:39:57]

But Ian, immediately now. Now, like we go forward when she says it's Pauline Reid, he immediately is like, oh, shit.

[00:40:07]

Lisa's Pauline that Maureen had seen talking to her friend fucking David Smith. And he was like, oh, my God, Myra did this just to get revenge on this guy.

[00:40:17]

Like to take away the source of Maureen's like like she did with her sister almost. And he's like, what the fuck? Like, you can't do that. Like, we can't just like and that's not what this is like. That's not how this works. So he's like, oh, shit.

[00:40:31]

So again, this is a direct connection in many ways. So he's pissed. So at this point he ran back to the van to grab the camera and such and left her with Myra because he's like, now, nothing is good here. We have to kill her. No, not that I was going to not kill her, but like, what other choice do we have?

[00:40:49]

And he didn't really probably want to at that point anymore. And now it's kind of like broken down the very like clinical very like by the book way that he wanted to do that.

[00:41:00]

And let me tell you what happens when you fuck with a Capricorns plan. It's true. It's not good. It would never fuck with Elaine this place. Exactly. And that's what just and this this happened in a big way. Yeah. So he's real.

[00:41:11]

Not happy, but he leaves Meira.

[00:41:13]

He's real. Real, not happy. He's I would one would say he's real. Not happy.

[00:41:19]

Okay. Just pudding's not happy. Look OK. Real not happy. I don't know why it came out like that. That was funny. I just have a lot going on. But it was.

[00:41:28]

So he leaves her with Myra, he runs back to get the stuff when he comes back.

[00:41:33]

He says that Myra was on top of Pauline and was screaming for Ian to help her.

[00:41:38]

And he was like, what the fuck just happened? Like what? He's like, I didn't tell you to do it. And then he realizes that she has tried to stab Pauline in the chest with the kitchen knife that they had. But the kitchen knife was too dull and the blade had bent. She had hit her so hard that the blade bent. Oh, my God.

[00:41:55]

And then he says he looks at her face and her head and she's gushing blood from everywhere because Maya had literally, like, beat the shit out of her with her fists or something, or maybe the knife even.

[00:42:05]

Yeah, he was like he hit her with something because she had like a huge hematoma on her head. Her nose was busted, her mouth was bleeding.

[00:42:12]

He's like, I've been gone for like four seconds. And he's like, damn. So he was like, all right, well, OK, blood is everywhere. So he kneels down, he grabs the knife.

[00:42:21]

And that he had strapped to his wrist like she not the bent one. Yeah. Because he was like, you didn't even do this, right? Apparently. So he grabs the one on his wrists and he cuts her throat. OK, the first cut was not deep enough to sever the carotid. Tartary, so he did it again. Oh, God. The second one worked and she but he said she bled out instantaneously, OK? Now that's how she died and later said, quote, Although I have dropped to the depths of depravity, Mira dropped even further.

[00:42:52]

It is human nature that if caught, the people will blame the master for their own criminal conduct.

[00:42:57]

But should the criminal enterprises succeed, I can assure you from wide personal experience, the pupils, the pupils devotion to criminal activities can outdo that of the master like that of a convert.

[00:43:11]

Wow. So he was literally like she would have outdone me. Yeah.

[00:43:14]

Because again, Meira will go into what's going to happen is we are going to hear Ian's version of these stories in Miras. You guys can decide which one you believe.

[00:43:26]

I think it's somewhere not in the middle because I think Myra is a lying asshole. Ian is an asshole, right? I don't think he I don't I don't think he cares about looking bad, but I think he's just like, yes, this is what I did. And I'm sure he embellishes. I think it more than necessary. Exactly.

[00:43:43]

So I think he, if anything, adds on to what happened, Myra takes away.

[00:43:49]

Oh, completely. So I think that some flies a lot closer to even closer to Ian's version and is I think is completely false because she removes herself from any blame at all.

[00:44:00]

And how as we know from the audio of Lesley and Downey, she is not blameless.

[00:44:05]

Well, I think that she knows she's a woman. And I think she probably thought she could be like I. Oh, yeah.

[00:44:10]

She thinks she's going to get all the sympathy, but certainly no one believes her. So Myra had got so she got out of the van. They put them weapons away while he waited. He chain smoked, he said, but he was very careful to put the butts in his pocket. He looked like them on the moors because that would be DNA.

[00:44:28]

And he said he just sat there and stared at Pauline's body in the silence, in the darkness, OK, which is like you fucking monster, like twisted fuck.

[00:44:37]

That's monster under your bed. Shit, that's like I'm just sitting there staring at this woman I just brutalized this whole thing.

[00:44:43]

Sounds like a fake movie. It does. And it's real, which is so scary. And I have to say, the way you're telling it, I'm like picturing everything in my head. Right. It's like because it's the way it happened. It's just so like cinematic, unfortunately, like horror. I'm like, it's just so movie.

[00:44:59]

It's so movie. Like Marvel movies, so cinema. We're not going to this tonight. So they dug a grave about four or five feet deep because it's like Pete out there. So it's very like easy to dig in.

[00:45:12]

I was like, it's one, you know, like, yeah, Peter.

[00:45:15]

And they placed her in they took care not to make the outside of the grave look like the earth had been disturbed.

[00:45:21]

So they made it look like it was just everything else. They counted their steps going back so that they could come back and photograph it later. OK, yeah.

[00:45:30]

They tore up all their clothing and they burned them along with the handle of the knife and they threw the remnants of it in the river or. Well, they cleaned the van completely.

[00:45:41]

Meira admitted to him that she kept the necklace out of nowhere. She was like, Oh, I have this necklace, by the way.

[00:45:47]

And did they go put it in the car?

[00:45:49]

And he was like, You dumb ass. Well, no, he was like, no. Like, we did not discuss taking that. You can't do this. Like, he's like the entire first thing.

[00:45:57]

Well, and she also was like, I also took the money out of her purse.

[00:46:01]

Out of her pocket. Excuse me.

[00:46:03]

You can't spend her money now. According to Ian, that's what happened. Meira took the money and was like, well, and they were like, well, now we have to spend this to get it away from us. Like, we can't have this right. And but according to Meira, Ian took the money and she said that they should put it they should bury it with her body. No, I think I think she took the money. Exactly.

[00:46:23]

So I just I have no idea. But the both of them say the complete opposite because his whole thing was, no, we can't take it.

[00:46:29]

I don't think he would have taken the money.

[00:46:30]

And they ended up burying the necklace somewhere far away. Like which how sad is that that her mother never said necklace is somewhere buried? Yeah, like that kills me. So what they say either way, what they said was that they went they watched a movie, they had sex, they drank a bottle of wine and they went to sleep because it was a success.

[00:46:51]

That is always so shocking to me that people just do this and then go about their regular life day to day. Exactly. It's insane.

[00:46:58]

Now, like I said, Meira, like the lying sack of shit, said at one point that and it's like, why would you even say this? Like, she's trying now. She's trying to sound evil. It's like she wants to sound innocent, but also because she can't decide. So Myra said at one point that that when they were going back to the house that night that they saw Pauline's mother looking for her.

[00:47:18]

Huh. Now, Ian said that's a lie. And in the book Return to Hell by Robert Wilson, he's a journalist. Yeah.

[00:47:25]

Pauline's brother Paul said he saw Myra on Chalmers Street at nine forty five p.m. that night as he returned home from being out at the movies that night. Yeah, so at that point, the mom wasn't out looking at, but he and Paul saw Myra Meyer didn't see Paul, right. So it just became like a totally different story. Stupid. And I guess Paul said, like, when he got home, that's when his mom was like, Pauline isn't home yet.

[00:47:49]

And that's when they went out OK.

[00:47:51]

So now Myra claims that she was not into it at all and that if Ian said that so Ian said that if she backed out of this whole thing, like if she decided to go to the police or decided she didn't want to do this again, that he was going to put her in the same grave as falling, OK. He denies this.

[00:48:06]

And I don't think she ever said she didn't want to do it, because the whole thing is she's the one that picked Pauline. Exactly. And he's he had resigned himself like, I'm going to be in prison forever.

[00:48:18]

So he held on to a lot of shit. Yeah. But it was mostly just to spite other people. It wasn't to save his own ass. Yeah. It was more to like or even more evil to the victim's family.

[00:48:28]

Wanted to look as evil as humanly possible. So I do believe him on that one. I would say just but the fact that she tries to manipulate everybody.

[00:48:42]

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[00:51:01]

Such morbid. According to Myra's side of the story, Ian had arrived at the Moores before them, like had arrived there and then heard Pauline got there. OK, so this is Myra saying and she's saying that he took Pauline all by himself to the location they scouted. Yeah. In Meira said she just sat at the car innocently until Ian came back and knocked on the window to tell her that he needed help moving Pauline's body back.

[00:51:31]

So she had nothing, nothing to do with it. And she didn't even know what happened because then look up, you know, she's dead now because then he would have taken the necklace and he wrote down that he wasn't going to take the necklace.

[00:51:41]

And I don't believe that he would have taken it.

[00:51:42]

And it's just his version of the story is very cut and dry. He's just like, yeah, we had a plan. We made a sign for each other. One of us would grab her. We didn't sit down. We did it. And she's like, no, I didn't have anything to do. I don't believe that. And it's like, oh, honey, stop your bull.

[00:51:57]

And hers is just so, like, no detail. I had nothing to do. Right.

[00:52:01]

And when every single time she tells her side of the story, she also never heard anything. She never saw anything.

[00:52:07]

She never heard anything. Right. That doesn't make any sense and it just doesn't make sense.

[00:52:10]

So both of their stories do say that she was because she said when I saw her, she was almost decapitated.

[00:52:17]

That's how deep she was cut. Yeah, this is true because the pathologist do autopsy er later said that the second cut severed her spinal cord.

[00:52:26]

That's how deep so to she also said and it's like this is why she's just she goes back and forth to Inspector Tyrrell, who was on the case during her confession. Myra said, quote, I made all of my own decisions. People go through several stages in their life after discussions, they change their mind. Ian never made me do anything I didn't want to do. All that killing is bloody rubbish.

[00:52:50]

OK, so he didn't kill her then.

[00:52:53]

So she's saying, no, she's he's she's saying whatever happened, I did it because I wanted to. He didn't make me do it. But then later she's like, Ian made me do everything right. This is the beginning. And then the other story she spends is I didn't do anything. So it's like, which one is it, honey? She's annoying. Yeah. So the news of Pauline missing went everywhere. Yeah. Real 16 year old girl on her way to a dance.

[00:53:16]

It's in all the papers. Police are going door to door searching. Her family's going door to door, searching. I mean, they're interviewing everyone. Police were completely stumped.

[00:53:26]

They had no evidence yet. They did do their due diligence.

[00:53:29]

And at that point, do they have a body? No, they didn't have a body and they didn't have bodies until a long time.

[00:53:35]

Did this for these kids, did it take getting Ian and Myra to get up? Yeah, right.

[00:53:40]

And a neighbour like her neighbours around them started freaking out because they were like, we all know each other.

[00:53:47]

Like, Yeah. Who did this? Like someone took this girl. Because the other thing was her family, of course they're going to say like, did she run away? And then all these things started like, was she pregnant? Did she have a boyfriend? This and that.

[00:53:59]

And her family was like, no, she would never have run away.

[00:54:02]

Like we know her. This is not something she would have done. Right. And the neighbors all knew that, too. So now they're going, who took her?

[00:54:09]

Someone took her. Yeah. Like, that's what's going on right now.

[00:54:12]

So for weeks, the newspapers reported about her disappearance. They drained canals. Joan was speaking out several times like a week. She was, you know, trying to say if her daughter came home that she wouldn't be in trouble. Like she was trying to hold out hope.

[00:54:27]

Like, if you're if you think you did something wrong, like you can come home, it's OK. Yeah. Her parents just did not they didn't rely just on the police to search or investigate.

[00:54:36]

They were searching every day.

[00:54:39]

Her mother, Joan, especially, would take the bus to like other towns, go door to door.

[00:54:44]

I can't imagine, like would not stop.

[00:54:46]

They never gave up hope in her mother Jones said, quote, It was just one living in hope all the time, thinking she'd come home. I was sat with my coat on for about three months, waiting for daylight to come, to run out to see if I could find her. I was just crying and crying and thinking about what had happened in my mind. And I kept thinking about it. It built up and built up. And I think that's what caused it.

[00:55:09]

My nervous breakdown, of course, she had we ended up having to enter a psychiatric facility. At one point, she had a complete breakdown.

[00:55:17]

That's her only daughter. Yeah.

[00:55:19]

And then she also another quote by her just to show, because what we see is that they don't know the consequences of these murders is so far reaching in these families. It's so sad.

[00:55:31]

She said, I was always looking. I even did an Avon job going house to house, thinking I'd find her in one of the houses like the make up. Yeah, I care.

[00:55:39]

I went miles on my own, traveling on buses and everything, thinking if I'd seen her on a bus and I'd be running after that bus. I never thought that Myra Hindley and Ian Brady had something to do with it all because her sister was a near neighbour, lived next door. But one with one Maureen, she went visiting there. Myra Hindley was talking to me normally and saying she was sorry about Pauline. What's so fucked up knowing she had done that, I don't think.

[00:56:05]

I don't I didn't think till after it all came back to me what is what? So now that also goes against Meyerrose. I didn't I thought it was horrible and I didn't want to do it anymore.

[00:56:16]

And he told me he'd put me in the same dream as Pauline.

[00:56:18]

Really? Because you're going up to her grieving mother and saying how sorry you are knowing that you guys killed her, right?

[00:56:23]

You son of a bitch. Some kind of thrill. Yeah, not so.

[00:56:26]

Don't pretend that you didn't enjoy all of that. So meanwhile, the next morning, Ian had seen that he had blood on his collar.

[00:56:34]

And so he because apparently that was the one thing that he didn't think of was the one it was like his coat collar that you're going to get blowback when you stab somebody.

[00:56:43]

Exactly. And like a carotid artery. Yeah, come on.

[00:56:46]

And so he ended up taking the coat to the dry cleaners and they used the alias Kennedy because of the president of the United States at the time.

[00:56:55]

It's random. Isn't that a weird fact? I just had to put that. And that is weird. A lot like centres around when Kennedy was shot and stuff, too, because it's the same type of time.

[00:57:03]

Yeah. Ian, soon as soon after this, Ian gave Myra a record and the record was the theme song of a movie called The Legion's Last Patrol in the U.K..

[00:57:15]

My favorite movie. Yeah. And so he gave her this. And what it was was an anniversary present. He called it July1 anniversary.

[00:57:24]

And he was like the anniversary of our first perfect murder, you know?

[00:57:29]

And what they did was they would also hum this song to each other when they wanted to remember it.

[00:57:35]

You what the fuck? Yeah. And this became a theme.

[00:57:38]

He would buy her record for every murder and then they would hum that that song to each other when they wanted to bring that murder back up. OK. Yep.

[00:57:48]

So then during this time, something crazy.

[00:57:51]

I had no idea that this happened and their relationship was just a weird thing. Myra started dating and sleeping with a cop.

[00:57:58]

Oh yeah. She's just like actively trying to fuck this whole family. And I don't know, there's several different stories about how they got together, so I'm not even going to spin them.

[00:58:09]

They had an open relationship, though, right? They did. But, you know, I was already pissed that she was sleeping with the cop he was not happy about. Yeah.

[00:58:17]

Do you think he would have cared if it wasn't a cop? I don't know, because I feel like he would want control.

[00:58:22]

I think he wanted the open relationship because he wanted to do what he wanted to do, but he probably didn't want her to feel like a lot of times that's what I well, dudes want open relationships.

[00:58:30]

And this cop was also married. Good. And this was after Pauline's murder in this cop spent time in Myra's home. That's where they had gotten rid of evidence in the fireplace. Yeah.

[00:58:40]

So this dude sitting there probably actively, like, knows about all of this. Well, yeah.

[00:58:45]

And because Ian and Myra didn't live together. Right. They kind of did they didn't officially live together. They would like go back and forth between. So at this point they hadn't actually got a place to gather.

[00:58:57]

So apparently, Ian, according to Meira, Ian got pissed when he found out she was sleeping with them. Yeah.

[00:59:04]

And but then the cop actually did say that he showed up once Ian showed up when they were together and was like, you need to back the fuck off, like was like threatening him like later.

[00:59:15]

So, yeah, that seems to check out. I mean, I get that look. I believe it. So Myra did break it off eventually with this cop, but she later said that if she had met the cop before Ian, then she would have married and had children with him.

[00:59:27]

Like she said, I didn't she was literally falling in love with this cop.

[00:59:30]

Why? Who they were both in relationships, whatever, having them there. You would have had children. Yeah, you would.

[00:59:37]

To start killing just how fucked up they both are in her head. I'm just like, what goes on up there, girl?

[00:59:43]

So this is November 1963 and now Myra has become she needs guns because Ian wants guns and he can't get guns because he has a criminal record. So he was like, you need to get guns. So she starts talking to people at work who go to gun clubs and stuff and they help her out picking stuff out. Yeah, she got a Webley or Webley 45 or revolver. I'm sorry. I'm sure somebody is gonna get mad at me about that.

[01:00:08]

I literally never heard all that, though. It's a revolver. We don't know guns. She also bought a Smith and Wesson one, which I know that. And a rifle. A what? A right. I'm kidding. I was like a rifle. I would say I was just like, oh, you know.

[01:00:23]

So they did target practice on the moors with like tin cans and targets and stuff.

[01:00:28]

This shit is a fucking movie, I'm telling. What's weird is they don't use them like they know they don't shoot people. Oh, that's weird. So it's just a hobby. So I feel like it's kind of like a Bonnie and Clyde thing.

[01:00:38]

They just thought it was cool to have guns. I don't even know because. Well, some people just like to collect them, I guess. Yeah.

[01:00:43]

But like, he was like, we need guns now and then.

[01:00:45]

They just never like why they probably just like decided against it for some. Yeah. Reason or another. So loud. Yeah exactly.

[01:00:53]

So according this is one like according to Meira he became like really abusive and started like scaring her with the guns with like point them at her.

[01:01:02]

I do kind of totally believe that he.

[01:01:04]

Probably did that. Yeah, and then at one point she says that, like, I think she pointed a gun at him and he was like, what the fuck? And he was like, actually terrified. And she was like, how does it fucking feel?

[01:01:14]

It's like, all right, is there a movie about like this? There is actually there is a couple of movies. I mention it at the end of the third one.

[01:01:21]

But yeah, there's a couple of movies because there needs to be I hate to say it would like make like all of this just sounds like a movie anyway. I'm like I want to like watch this. It's fascinating. Yeah I know it sounds child Sarda part is I don't want to watch but no I don't want I didn't mean they're weird relationship. Yes exactly. Yeah. It's very weird. So this is when they decide we want to kill again.

[01:01:43]

Ian says that Mira came up with it Meira socity and comes up with it. So take that as the greatest show.

[01:01:48]

They probably just both want to do it. Exactly.

[01:01:50]

Caecum in the same people laying in bed, they were like, let's fucking kill another kid. That's what happened. They adjusted gross income without each other's teeth. And they were like, OK, yeah.

[01:01:59]

And like, you know, just so this doesn't come out of nowhere, in part when we mention this, maybe she stuck a candle up as.

[01:02:05]

But I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. You know, you don't know because if you didn't listen to her one you'll be like, excuse me. Why did you listen to part one.

[01:02:13]

Yeah, listen to part one. So yeah. So they want to kill someone again. And Myra said that Ian told her that, you know, you you're the one who's going to lure this child in, that jobs is the whole thing. And he also said that he was like, this time you're going to lure in, I'll come after.

[01:02:30]

And he said, I want a child this time. Gross.

[01:02:33]

And he said, Pauline fought and struggled a lot and he and it was hard to hold her down.

[01:02:39]

Right. So she was like because she's sixteen older and more aware.

[01:02:43]

And he was like, I don't want that anymore. I want someone that I can literally just take complete control of.

[01:02:48]

And I and he also was a disgusting pedophile.

[01:02:52]

So he just wanted a child, you know, because Ian Brady was a fucking pedophile. Yes, I was married. They both are.

[01:03:00]

So I mean, because it's easy to forget that, like, not only are they brutal fucking murders, they're pedophiles.

[01:03:06]

It's like it's disgusting. So, yes.

[01:03:09]

So he was like, I want a child to make sure you find me one. You know, Saturday, November 22, 1963, they had a plan. They were going to pick a victim. Hindley lures them in. She drives to the more, lets the victim go with Brady into the moors to find that glove. And she would leave. She was going to leave and go around the other side of the moors with whatever car she was in.

[01:03:31]

Oh, I believe it's like Greenfield is where the entrance to the moors is.

[01:03:35]

OK, and there she was going to take the rifle that would be in the back and she was going to put it on the front passenger seat. She never explains why, because they don't use it.

[01:03:44]

It's just supposed to be a scary I'm not really sure because whoever was going to be dead before, like no one was coming back in the car. So I don't really know. It's weird. But then after thirty minutes, she was going to drive back around to where she dropped them off and then she was going to flash her headlights three times. And then if everything was cool and going according to plan in the Moors, Ian was going to flash a flashlight three times back at her.

[01:04:08]

OK, so that was their plan. Very intricate. Exactly.

[01:04:12]

So they planned this time to find their victim at Asheton underline. Yeah. Which had a huge market on the weekends. One thing says that they did this because of that market and they knew they'd be able to find a kid there that was probably unattended. And there's a lot of people they wouldn't notice. And then a couple of other sources say that they just happened upon this giant market. So whatever.

[01:04:32]

Maybe it's a little bit of both. Yeah, could be on it. And then there were like, oh, perfect.

[01:04:35]

So Hindley got a Rent-A-Car for this occasion because she gave the van back to the neighbor.

[01:04:40]

Feel like that's not a good idea? No. And picked up Ian at his home. He had another anniversary gift in honor of their next their second murder.

[01:04:49]

But if it doesn't work and it was a record and it was 24 hours from Tulsa by Gene Pitney, I think it is sorry to ruin all these songs.

[01:04:57]

I know. I'm really sorry. Again, whenever they hummed it around each other, it was a little subtle nod to the murder because they wanted to relive it. Yeah, totally. Now it sounds like Maya is very against this and scared, huh?

[01:05:09]

Super. Yeah, no. So they drove to the lake in Staffordshire and they hung out there. They hiked. They had a day of it. They made it like a couples thing.

[01:05:19]

Then they drove to Huddersfield and Myra put on a disguise. She wore a black wig that almost looked like her sister's hair. Oh. Which I'm like, well, you to implicate your sister because you looked like her.

[01:05:32]

But yeah. So you put she put on the black hair. She put on like a head scarf and like sunglasses. So it really didn't look like her. And then she went into a store, she purchased a shovel, a knife and some rope and cord, just casual purchases.

[01:05:47]

Can you imagine going in there dressed like that and being like, I'd like a shovel, a knife and some cord fleece?

[01:05:52]

Like if you're going to get those things, maybe go to different stores also maybe throw in like an air freshener, like, you know, that would look even worse.

[01:05:58]

I was going to say, I don't know why that was the first thing that came to mind. Maybe throw in like. Yeah, like a griddles like. Refreshment like something that doesn't scream like I'm about to murder someone. Yeah, yeah, I don't know, but apparently they didn't care.

[01:06:11]

So then they went back to Manchester and they went to see with to Russia with Love, which was a double 007 movie also.

[01:06:18]

They did this for an alibi. Of course, you need the stuff because they weren't just going to see the movie. Come Will remember that you did that.

[01:06:25]

Then they both went home. Oh, and then around 4:00 p.m., because, again, they needed that alibi. They went home and then four p.m. they get back together. They get in the rental car again. They put plastic sheet in the trunk. Oh. And they also put the shovel, the rifle and a flashlight on the plastic sheet. Meyer is wearing the disguise because we're being theatrical now.

[01:06:46]

Duh.

[01:06:47]

They drove to Ashton underline. And within minutes, Ian was like, I see someone. So he immediately was like, I see a boy alone and I want him.

[01:06:57]

And so they walked around and they were acting like this.

[01:07:00]

Like very normal couple. Yes. Like looking at things and holding hands, going to a fair you know, just looking around the market. The boy they chose was John Kilbride. Mm hmm. John was 12 years old and lived in Asheton underline.

[01:07:15]

He was unbelievably adorable, like the picture of him just melt, going to rain.

[01:07:21]

He had huge eyes, this like gap in his front teeth. And it's like a face you just want to protect. Like you're like, let me just help you.

[01:07:29]

And he looked so innocent and child like he really did. His parents were Sheila and Patrick Kilbride. He had six younger siblings. He took care of his younger siblings very happily. He seemed to take pride in helping people, especially his own family, who he was known as a super sweet kid. He was always singing to himself.

[01:07:49]

He would often help his grandmother out around the house and in her yard because she was sick.

[01:07:53]

Just fuck me up on it.

[01:07:55]

You know, he was very close with his younger brother, Danny, who was only younger by a year. So they were pretty close in age. Yeah. Danny later said he never stopped making sure and he didn't he never stopped making sure that Myra Hindley would stay locked up forever. Good. Because obviously, Ian Brady wasn't going anywhere like no one needed to fight to keep him safe.

[01:08:14]

He had like Samira was the one a lot of people needed to fight to keep in prison because she was trying to get out.

[01:08:19]

That's so awful that you lose somebody. And then I'll tell you, after the rest of your days, you're making sure that this bitch stays where she is.

[01:08:25]

You have to relive it, relive it, relive it, and you just have to, like, constantly be fighting and seeing this piece of shit that you're just in a constant state of remembering. Yeah. And and just shit. So John Kilbride attended Catholic school at St Damien's Secondary School.

[01:08:40]

He was very popular. He had a ton of friends. He loved it.

[01:08:44]

In fact, he was very well loved in that school because when he went missing, they every day like the head, like the principal or headmaster.

[01:08:53]

Sure. I'm not really sure how it is in a Catholic school. I think it's a headmaster. They would come over the thing and say, let's all say a prayer for John Kilbride.

[01:09:02]

But while he was missing, yeah, he loved soccer or football, as it's known there, which honestly makes much more sense for you.

[01:09:12]

OK, I did like wee wee football. Make sense.

[01:09:15]

I got so many messages that were like, yeah, man united. Yeah. Then you got some that were like, no, I actually didn't get any. I saw them. Oh you were there. Don't worry.

[01:09:23]

I saved you from all the people that like Arsenal. Yeah. And he loved movies.

[01:09:27]

He was always going to the movies. It's just we got to talk.

[01:09:30]

Yeah. You got to know who. John, we need to humanize the victim. Yeah. And it's like he deserves to be known.

[01:09:35]

So in fact he was at the movies with some friends before going to the market that day and they had all and it was actually him and like two or three friends who were also named John.

[01:09:45]

So it was like John, John, John, John. And I think John Mulaney has a skit about actually that he had like three friends, erm John.

[01:09:53]

So what they were going to do was they were going to go to the market and they would do this a lot, they would go and offer the shop keepers like, well we'll help out and shopkeepers would give him tips or they give him food or just like it was just something to do.

[01:10:06]

Yeah. Which like how wholesome. It's also like the sixties. Like what the fuck else are you so wholesome, like so wholesome, so full queue.

[01:10:13]

When he went missing that day he was wearing a white shirt, he was wearing black chisel toed shoes.

[01:10:19]

Not really sure what those are. That's what they were described as. He was also wearing grey flannel pants under his shirt. He was wearing his father's old vest, which his mom had, like, sewed to fit him.

[01:10:31]

Why is this like everybody's wearing something of their parents?

[01:10:34]

It's I it's I know it's too much. That's heart wrenching. He was also wearing a jacket with football shaped buttons, which is such a little kid.

[01:10:44]

Yeah. That reminds me of, like, our little nugget. I know.

[01:10:48]

It's like just oh, I'm talking like Alina's nephew and I know I can't it's like I it does. It reminds me of the now Ian led mirror over to John who is sitting eating like a biscuit that was given to him for helping one of the shopkeepers. Yeah, he was alone and she walked up. To him, and she said something about like, oh, why are you out so late, like for such a young lad, like laughing like she was trying to be like Twardy and they got his name.

[01:11:12]

They got, like, you know, where he was from. Like they just chatted him up. Right. You know, gaining his trust.

[01:11:18]

And then Ian said something about, you know, where parents ourselves and I would be worried sick if my child was out alone at you know, they're probably worried about you home.

[01:11:29]

And it was five thirty PM. It wasn't like she said she but they were like, you know, what will drive you home.

[01:11:35]

And he was like, OK, because he kenzi's and he was like, you don't want to make it right. Yeah.

[01:11:41]

So the way that they were able to get him to the moors without him being like I don't live there. Yeah I was on the way there.

[01:11:48]

Ian was like, oh, we have a bottle of sherry at home.

[01:11:52]

And he was like, and if you help us find this glove that is just so special to Meira on the moors, we'll give you this bottle of sherry to bring home to your parents is like a thank you.

[01:12:02]

Yeah. And John was like, great.

[01:12:04]

So he was like for you. And then my parents will get something out of it.

[01:12:07]

Exactly. And he was like, we live by the moors.

[01:12:09]

So this is perfect. Like this is what Ian said. He was like, oh, we live by the Moors, so we'll go find the glove, then I'll bring you to our house, get the sherry and we'll drive you home, OK?

[01:12:18]

So he's like, right. So yeah. So when they get closer, Ian's like, all right, why don't we stop and find that glove. Yeah. And he's like, all right, cool.

[01:12:28]

So he did say Ian Brady says that John was nervous and he could tell he was starting to just hold my stuff together.

[01:12:37]

And it's like you just picture this child understanding all of a sudden like something bad is going on.

[01:12:42]

You just get a bad feeling and that like, yeah, he totally gets me to think about and I'm sure Ian loved it.

[01:12:49]

I was going to say that he loves to do it all. And that's the thing.

[01:12:52]

He loves saying these things because he wants family to hear that and know it.

[01:13:05]

I'm going to tell you about a nightmare I had the other night.

[01:13:07]

Oh, I'm excited. This is what happens. It was I was at my house and I was finishing a glass of wine and I was like, oh, my God, let's go have another. Because, like, every day is the weekend these days. And I went to go pour another bottle and there was none left, man.

[01:13:23]

I was expecting something better. Why? That's a horrible nightmare. Sure. But thanks to firstly, if I get personalized boxes of wine shipped right to my door. So that was simply a dream. All right. Well, actually, it's a dream that they ship them to my door. It was a nightmare that I thought that they didn't. Yeah, logistics. So you need to get first leave anyways. That's the whole point of me telling you this.

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Anyways, I always have something new to try with first leaf. I have got I you know that I'm only a red girl. I oh I dread that. But I branched out a little bit and they sent me this really good rosé and I'm going to have to tell you what it was next time because I forgot what it was.

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[01:15:56]

Now, Ian had the flashlight in his pocket and he also had the knife or he had the flashlight and he also had the knife in the cord in his pocket. OK, at Satyal worth more, they parked and Ian was like, All right, come with me. We'll go find the glove.

[01:16:09]

Myra says that the two of them left together into the Moors. She did her part of the deal.

[01:16:14]

She had lured him in so she was done that Janis's now what is and say well and she said she went to the entrance, she moved the rifle.

[01:16:22]

She waited 30 minutes, drove back around where they dropped him off, flash the headlights three times. She got three flashlights back.

[01:16:29]

So she was like, good to go by.

[01:16:31]

Then Ian comes to the car out of breath and she said he's holding a small boy shoe in his hand. Yeah. And he was like, what? She was like, why are you holding that shoe?

[01:16:41]

And he was like, oh, after I buried him, I guess I forgot this. Like, he struggled.

[01:16:46]

So it must have just fallen off my like it's just what. So he told her, you know, he had sexually assaulted John and then he said I tried to slight slices throat, but the knife was too dull so it wouldn't slice him properly.

[01:17:00]

Yeah.

[01:17:00]

So he said, thankfully I had this court in my pocket and I strangled him with it. OK, now Ian's version is different. He says the three of them went into the moors and further says Myra is a liar because he said that whole thing about the rifle, which doesn't even make sense. He goes, We didn't purchase that rifle until a year later. Oh, OK. And then he was like, you can even look at the receipts.

[01:17:22]

And they did. And it's true, right? So he was like, well, he's like, I don't even know why she lied.

[01:17:26]

It's also just like a weird thing to lie about that made no sense whatsoever.

[01:17:29]

He said again, John definitely knew what was up and he said it was getting dark. No one was answering anything that he was asking so he could tell because he was like, why are we doing this?

[01:17:39]

It's dark. We're not going to find this glove like that kind of thing. So he said he had to give Myra the Groucho thing three different times before Myra got the message like, oh, that sucks.

[01:17:51]

Like he says it like, you know, I had to give her it three times before he murdered this kid. It's like, God damn it. So sorry, though. That was hard for you.

[01:17:58]

I'm so sorry you were so inconvenienced by her hesitance. She says that's like Jesus. So he did that. She finally got the hint and he says the two of them took John to the ground. He said he fought a ton. Yeah. And raped him and then strangled him while Myra held him down. So he's implicating Myra the entire time. Ian himself said after he killed John, he slapped John in the back, after he put him in the grave and then looked up at the sky and said, Take that, you bastard.

[01:18:30]

Like what? And then later he explained that because people are like, what does that mean? And he said, this was my gesture in the face of whatever malignant force it is, which underlines the universe devoted only to chaos. So this was him being like, take that, you bastard.

[01:18:45]

Whatever, like God is up there, like you don't even believe in God according to you. Well, that's what he said. Whatever malignant force in the universe is doing that. And it's like you're disgusting. Like what is wrong with you? I also think he thought that was cool.

[01:18:58]

You're one hundred percent did. And that's why he's disgusting, because I'm like, first of all, do I believe you did it?

[01:19:04]

Maybe because he's weird and theatrical. Yes, but I, I agree. I think he is so psyched to be able to tell that story like he was like and I shook my fist at the sky and I said, take that.

[01:19:17]

Your best are like he's so happy to be able to tell just stupid.

[01:19:20]

This is such he's so lame going back to mirror, like saying that she didn't do anything.

[01:19:26]

I also think obviously she I feel as though she had to be there because the fact that she has to hold them down makes sense, because I feel like then Ian would have been covered in like scratches or stuff like that exact or the people that fought.

[01:19:38]

There's no way he would have gotten out of that without getting because he says he readily admits all they all fought back.

[01:19:45]

Yeah. Like Pauline gave him a lot of would typically rape victims do fight, obviously. And it's like because it's just human nature, you're going to try to get out from under the person who's trying to hold you down.

[01:19:55]

And it's like I just think they she just had to be there. She had to be there. She did. And this whole Groucho thing that he keeps saying, it makes sense. Everything that he's saying makes sense. Yeah.

[01:20:05]

She's just trying to keep she wanted to get parole. That's all this is. Her whole thing was trying to get out of prison. That's all she wanted to do.

[01:20:12]

She would have done horrific things had she gotten out of. Oh, yeah, she would have she definitely she wouldn't have just found that cop and had kids, you know, horrific. She would have done terrible shit.

[01:20:22]

Now, they drove back to Gorton and they went to Myra's house and they did the same like forensic clean up that they did the first time. Yeah. John's family at this point is panicked. Yes. He's never late.

[01:20:34]

And you just think of them panicking at this point.

[01:20:36]

And what they don't know is that he's gone and buried in the moors.

[01:20:41]

That's like like horrific. His younger brother, Danny, the one that he was so close to that was like a year Forfar. He went door to door and was asking people where he was. Shela His mother got upset around like nine p.m. and she was like, we got to call the. Yes, I can't wait any longer. Twelve, they were so a huge, massive search started like massive. They asked all the shopkeepers at the market if they had seen them.

[01:21:05]

Like, they got a little bit they got over 700 statements from that while there were missing posters everywhere.

[01:21:13]

The parents went everywhere, searching the same thing as Pauline's parents. They went everywhere. They were asking everyone about him. Monday morning, the Manchester Evening News posted the first big article about it.

[01:21:24]

Myra and Ian were absolutely psyched about this because everyone in their office was talking about it on Monday morning.

[01:21:30]

Like all their coworkers were like, holy shit, do you see this? And they were like, we did OK. Yeah. And they're feeling great about it. And Ian later said, the audience is the value and quality of the act.

[01:21:41]

It makes sense, unfortunately, just like. Oh, so you're BTK. Yeah. You wanted to you loved the audience.

[01:21:48]

Yeah. Yeah. And if nobody was talking about it, he would have shit his pants about it and like written into newspapers, like he would have watches this disc. Yeah, exactly. Also I love water. Also water. Tim Wednesday. That Wednesday. Yeah.

[01:22:03]

They returned, they returned to John and Pauline's burial sites on the moors because they would do they called it like reconnaissance, which was just them going back to the burial sites and making sure that they weren't like disturbed, OK.

[01:22:16]

And it was just them wanting to keep reliving it. Yeah, that's for them. But they made it seem like like they nerd out and they're like it's a reconnaissance mission.

[01:22:24]

And it's like, no, you're just going back to the place you murder people. That's just reliving that's just serial killer shit. Like just call it what it is.

[01:22:30]

So then the search for John is widening to, I mean, hundreds of volunteers in his mother.

[01:22:36]

This is going to hurt your heart. Great.

[01:22:38]

His mother continued to make dinner for him every night and set up a spot for him just in case he came home. Yep. Oh, my God. Doesn't that just kill you? Yes.

[01:22:49]

Oh, so soon?

[01:22:51]

The news reported that the search was getting closer to the Moors. Yeah. And Meira starts getting nervous because she was like shit. And Ian's under the impression because, of course, he's smarter than everybody.

[01:23:03]

I don't know if you know this, obviously, but he's smarter than everybody.

[01:23:06]

And he was like, they're just working off of like they're just guessing in the Moors. They're just they're so he's just they're just guessing. Oh, OK. So it's like, OK, keep thinking that. So Sunday, December 1st, 2000 volunteers were out searching.

[01:23:19]

Whoa in a local businessman offered a hundred pound reward for any information on finding him.

[01:23:25]

And it was later reported that two thousand volunteer search, they said it was the biggest search for any missing person before this.

[01:23:31]

My God. So John was very missed. Yes. Obviously, they brought in a psychic at one point because, I mean, it happens.

[01:23:38]

They do get into it. Yeah. And the psychic was used basically out of, you know, desperation. And they said they the psychic said they saw John, quote, some way down a slope with the skyline completely barren and not a tree in sight, a main road on the right and quite a quite narrow stream.

[01:23:57]

This is remarkably I was going to say that's not wrong. No.

[01:24:01]

And it's like and I think they even brought this to Ian later, like I think that Dr. Alan Keatley did.

[01:24:07]

And yes. Like, what do you make of that?

[01:24:10]

Like, they were kind of on the nose did. He was like he was like, that's weird. They're on the nose. But I think it's just them, like just they can draw anything out of anything.

[01:24:17]

Yeah. Like, he didn't believe it. I don't you know, I don't know what I believe, but that's very that's very interesting.

[01:24:22]

Yeah. I will give it.

[01:24:24]

But meanwhile, Ian and Myra are now visiting the Moors very often just to check, make sure nothing's disturbed and just take it in. They spend lots of time there. They're often also sat on a street near John's home and watched the family home.

[01:24:41]

Oh, together.

[01:24:43]

And they just said that they imagined what chaos the family was living through hour by hour, not knowing where you are, monsters.

[01:24:51]

There's no words for what they go so beyond.

[01:24:53]

They even go beyond Paul and fucking Khalil because they they get so much enjoyment out of the chaos that they cause in these people's lives, like by taking their children follow up on it.

[01:25:03]

Yeah. And they they marinate in it. They really do. They they bask in it. Yeah.

[01:25:08]

It's unbelievable. And John's brother Terry said, quote, My mother always used to be singing when she was cooking or ironing, but that just stopped.

[01:25:17]

Everything stopped. That's awful.

[01:25:19]

So sad. So New Years of that year, 1963, they went to the moors, they raised a glass of whisky and they yelled to John.

[01:25:30]

You know that I can't stress enough how fucking evil these two are, right, and they admit that readily like what we did. So, you know, yeah, it's unbelievable.

[01:25:40]

Now, it was in February of the next year, I believe, February or March. That's when they did the first of the pictures on the burial sites that they took. OK, they had a dog named Puppet, you mentioned in the first episode. And they were like, you know what, let's go to the Moors and we're going to take pictures on the burial sites so we can remember them.

[01:26:00]

Yeah.

[01:26:00]

And what Meira said that was Ian liked putting these pictures into regular photo albums with the like, just regular, I believe.

[01:26:08]

And he said then family and friends would be flipping through it and they'd have no idea what they were looking at. And we gave him some kind of joke.

[01:26:14]

I 100 percent believe that. That's like textbook Ian. Yes, that is that's so Ian. So Ian. So they got a new car eventually.

[01:26:23]

I think it was like a two door station wagon. And in May 5th, May 15th, 1964, was John's birthday, his 13th birthday. His mother bought him presents, bought a card in the card.

[01:26:36]

I don't have the exact same thing she wrote, but she basically wrote, If you are home on this day like I love you and I missed you basically, but I bought him presents, wrapped them all just like waited for him back.

[01:26:48]

Yeah. Like it kills my heart.

[01:26:51]

It the things they did to me when I was probably two almost like a like a thing for her where like she had to go out and do that. Yeah. Like almost pretend like he's still there and he's going to open these presents.

[01:27:03]

And this is what we do on his birthday because that is because that's what you do on that day. Right. So it's like we are just going to do what we do.

[01:27:09]

Yeah. Like we're not if we don't. And part of her probably thought if I don't get these presents is accepting that maybe, yeah.

[01:27:15]

Maybe he won't come home. But if I buy them, maybe he'll come home, you know.

[01:27:19]

Oh it just killzone. It's like a mother's brain work so differently. It really does. It's just like.

[01:27:24]

Oh so June 16th, 1964, Henley went to get Ian.

[01:27:31]

I know I keep I keep forgetting, like if I'm calling them Hindley or Myra.

[01:27:35]

I mean we all know I feel bad though like probably skipping around, but I write it differently every time.

[01:27:40]

OK, so Myra, I'm just going to stick with Myra when to get Ian in the new station wagon. She was dressed in the disguise she wears. Yeah.

[01:27:49]

She picked him up at seven thirty pm and they almost immediately saw a group of children. Oh good.

[01:27:55]

Now before this car ride they had decided they were excited. They wanted to do it again. Oh, and this was not that long after John. Right.

[01:28:03]

So yeah. A cooling off period is starting to. Yeah, exactly. It's getting smaller and smaller.

[01:28:09]

And one boy was alone and Ian was like, that's our next victim. Mm hmm.

[01:28:14]

That boy was Keith Bennett. OK, now, before they did this, Ian made sure to give Myra another gift, another and a gift, a record.

[01:28:24]

And it was Roy Orbison's It's Over record.

[01:28:27]

And again, they would commit to each other when they wanted to remember this because remember, they're evil as fuck.

[01:28:34]

Now, Keith, really, this one, like, hurts me because you'll find out. So Keith was barely twelve years old.

[01:28:41]

He just turned oh, I was like eleven but twelve basically. He was just eleven like a few days earlier.

[01:28:48]

Keith was wearing a t shirt. He was wearing black shoes, a white leather zip up jacket over blue jeans. He was gone.

[01:28:54]

So he he was. Stupid, precious. I mean, the photo of him, you're just like, oh, like this just snuggle little chipmunk of a baby.

[01:29:05]

I feel like I don't even want to see them because it's going to ruin me. Yeah, he was small for his age. He had glasses. He had like a big smile, like all his stepsister, Susan was his best friend.

[01:29:17]

His younger sister, who was three years old, was obsessed with him and followed him at Star Stop. That's when it gets too real. It does. He was one of six kids. He lived with his mother, Winnie, and his father, stepfather Jimmy. He had a very good relationship with his stepfather, very good relationship with his step siblings. He loved playing football. He loved nature. He would bring back like little bugs and stuff to show his parents he loved collecting coins.

[01:29:44]

And he was just undeterrable muffin.

[01:29:47]

The night he was abducted, his mother was going to be going to bingo and his mother was seven months pregnant on the way and went into premature labor after he went missing.

[01:29:56]

All the baby ended up being OK. But like that was from stress because I was going to say her body was so stressed.

[01:30:01]

Yeah.

[01:30:02]

And so that night, his mother was going to be going to bingo. And so she was going to bring the kids to the grandparents house. The grandmother's house. Yeah. For the night. And she did this like every now and then. Yeah.

[01:30:12]

And then the grandmother would walk them all home the next day. It was just the thing they did. So on the way to dropping him off on the way, like all the kids are going with the mom and Keith sees some friends from school and he's like, I want to go play with them. And he she's like, cool, you can go play with them. It's the 60s going. Exactly. You can just just walk because the grandmother didn't live far away at all.

[01:30:32]

So she was like, just make sure you head back there. So she was like, cool. So the last she saw of him, he had run across the street, turned around and waved to her.

[01:30:40]

And that's the last thing she saw. That's fucked up. Now, in Myra's version of events, Myra pulled up next to Keith and asked him if he wanted to help her and Ian load some boxes into her car. She said Keith hesitated but then got into the passenger seat because Ian was in the back. Hmm.

[01:30:56]

So she starts driving and then Ian made Meira stop and ask Keith to come in the back seat with him. Mm hmm.

[01:31:03]

So he gets in the back seat and that's when Ian's like, listen, Myra lost a glove and goes through that whole spiel. And he's like, she's so sad about it. And like, you seem like a really good kid. Like, do you want to help me find it?

[01:31:15]

Jesus Christ. And he was like, well, son of a bitch. I know. I've heard the story three times. He is like he is so.

[01:31:20]

Oh, he said, sure, they went to the Moors where he got out with Keith on the pretense of looking for the glove.

[01:31:27]

Now, in Ian's version, he was waiting on a totally different street and Myra did the scooping and then picked him up.

[01:31:33]

He wasn't even in the car. Yeah, he was like I was not in the back seat.

[01:31:36]

Like it was just Myra pulling him. You would also think that Keith would think that was weird. Exactly.

[01:31:41]

Why is he in the bathroom? Say something like, why do you need me to help you? Because when you said that, I was like, what exactly?

[01:31:47]

So he's like, no, I was on a different street. Myra lured him and got him in the car, came to the street and picked me up.

[01:31:53]

Myra sounds like a dumb ass. She really is. I'm like, do you really know any of what you're saying makes any sense?

[01:31:59]

No, I think she does. She's like, absolutely everybody should believe me.

[01:32:03]

OK, well, in Myra's version, what happened next was Myra followed them. She sat like into the moors. Yeah. She sat down somewhere after Ian told her to stop. And waited for about 40 minutes. She said she didn't hear or see anything. Of course not. When he came back after 40 minutes, he was dirty, out of breath. And he was like, I strangled Keith with the cord or the rope. And, you know, I raped him as well.

[01:32:27]

Mm hmm. And he said that this time, though, he was like, I took a picture of him after I murdered him before I buried him.

[01:32:34]

Yeah. And she was, like, neat.

[01:32:37]

So in Ian's version, they all went together three miles into the more. Yeah, away from the car. Away from the road.

[01:32:45]

And that he said again, Keith was very nervous and Keith was nervous that his grandmother would be concerned about him not getting there until late.

[01:32:52]

Oh, my God. And he said Myra kept telling him, you'll be home soon.

[01:32:56]

Don't worry. That's so fucked.

[01:32:58]

Myra was holding the shovel and the rifle, and I believe they said it was covered in plastic. So you can tell what it was. And Ian said the sign was for him. That was just fucked up.

[01:33:08]

Ian says the sign, too, like we're going to take him down. The grouching was that he would start whistling when you wish upon a star.

[01:33:16]

Are you fucking kidding me? Nope.

[01:33:20]

And that was when they were supposed to attack him. And basically the same thing happened to Keith that happened to John initially. Brady grabbed him by the throat. Meyer held him down. He was sexually assaulted and strangled, but he was strangled by Ian's bare hands, according to Ian.

[01:33:34]

And he said while I was strangling him, Myra was holding him down.

[01:33:38]

Yeah, obviously, because she would need to. You do. She was there. You would definitely need to. They buried him together, according to him. And Ian said he put a large boulder where his grave was to come back to it.

[01:33:49]

Yeah.

[01:33:49]

Now, the thing I said earlier about how this one really gets to me is because Keith is the only one who has never been found, never he is still not found to this day. And we will get into it in part three.

[01:34:02]

How fucked up Ian Brady is, because he refused.

[01:34:06]

I mean, Myra did, too. But Ian really refused till the last second. Like the last second, he was like, you're never going to find IRA, wasn't there?

[01:34:15]

No, she wasn't there. So she wouldn't know. Now, he hasn't been found. And Ian said that he was surprised that police metal detectors haven't located him yet because he said that metal zipper on his jacket.

[01:34:28]

But it might look like it might have just been knocked away by animals.

[01:34:32]

I don't know. No, he was buried. I don't know. He's buried feet under the ground like he's in there somewhere. He can be found.

[01:34:38]

Can't they just dig up the whole moors until they find the Moors are unbelievably gigantic, really?

[01:34:43]

UN. But this is why they chose them.

[01:34:45]

It would honestly I don't think you could ever look everywhere. You would. You could I mean, you could lose someone in a minute there.

[01:34:51]

That's awful. And he knows that.

[01:34:53]

But but for him to say, I'm surprised the police haven't, you know, use metal metal detectors and found that zipper, it's like that's just another like, fuck you to his family. Right? It just oh, I'm like, you're so gross.

[01:35:05]

Now, his mother, Keith's mother, when he died in 2012 at 78 years old.

[01:35:10]

Oh, my God. She went like her whole life, one never knowing where he was. And she I mean, she knew he was in the moors, but she was like nowhere. And she was buried with Keith's glasses, which he had broken earlier that week. And she had intended to fix them the day he went missing.

[01:35:26]

So she was buried with the broken glass that just made me get that lump in my throat before she passed away.

[01:35:31]

She said, I need my keys to be returned from those bleak, cold and windy moors that look down on me from almost everywhere I turn in my hometown of Manchester, my heart is torn from me.

[01:35:43]

Who and it's just like I just got like a like that brought a Big Gulp to me. Yeah. Yes.

[01:35:49]

So that's really sad and it sucks because that's a cheap hobby. That's your baby. And like like like she's I like cold. She knows that she's alone out there. And you picture her like going anywhere and she's like, oh they're just like they're just right there. They're just there.

[01:36:05]

I can't imagine. I can't imagine. I really can't.

[01:36:08]

So like I said earlier, they bought new shovels each time that they that they did this and they would bury the shovels out on the moors.

[01:36:15]

Yeah, they did the same after murder checklist, get rid of everything, clean everything that went through the same thing and also created this time a dark room.

[01:36:24]

And they're in Myra's home over the phone because he was like, now I want to take pictures. So this is when he would start developing photos like the ones he took of Keith.

[01:36:33]

But he said he destroyed that photo and it has never been found because he said that it was blurry. But he showed it to Myra first and Myra said she never saw it.

[01:36:42]

Of course, now he went to the suitcases he had at the railway station to add things to them. And Myra said she has no idea what he added. Keith's grandmother didn't have a phone, so she assumed when he didn't come that he was staying with his mom or at a friend's house. She just was like, oh, and she had no way of calling the mom to be like, was he supposed to be here? Right. And so she just walked the rest of the kids home the next morning.

[01:37:07]

And his parents were like, Where's Keith? And she explained she was like, oh, he never came. Yeah, I thought he just wasn't coming.

[01:37:14]

No one else had seen him. So they contacted the police and his siblings apparently were like a fucking mess. They said his sisters cried themselves to sleep every night, like wondering where he was.

[01:37:27]

Like the the far reaching of this. The chaos and just calamity that this caused is so unbelievable.

[01:37:35]

Yeah. It's like unquantifiable. It's just so sad. He's just your grandmother and he lives felt so guilty.

[01:37:41]

Right, exactly. And she herself is elderly, sick. Grandmother would go to different towns. She would bang on doors. She would search like she took it upon herself.

[01:37:50]

She's doing as well. You know what I just thought of?

[01:37:53]

I feel like him making that comment about the zipper. I almost wonder if they took off the zipper. I wonder that, too. And they put it in my luggage, luggage.

[01:38:01]

And they're just being like, I wonder why they didn't find that.

[01:38:03]

Right, because they knew the police would probably do that. And it probably did do that.

[01:38:06]

And it feels like Ian Brady would think they could fix this zipper. So he was probably like, oh, that's funny. I bet they took the jacket. That's a good point. That's a really good point. I guarantee you. That's it. Yeah.

[01:38:17]

Well, Jimmy, the stepfather and like John Kilbride's father, Patrick, both of them were questioned immediately and rumors were flying that the both of them were involved in their kids to school, and especially this guy because he's the stepdad.

[01:38:31]

Exactly.

[01:38:31]

And they were like being super cooperative. And they were like, I just want to find him. But it was starting to like wear on them. Like, they were like, I'm being accused of killing or like Drew my child, my child.

[01:38:42]

So it was just breaking these families apart. In the search began. The media went bonkers again. People were going door to door. Police are going door to door.

[01:38:49]

There's bloodhounds being released everywhere. They're dragging bodies of water. They're looking in places he, you know, wanted to hang out like railroads and stuff.

[01:38:59]

Because you like trains, you can train tracks soon. The parents of Pauline, Joan and Amos and John and John and Keith's parents, they all realized there's got to be a connection, a serial killer.

[01:39:13]

And especially between John and Keith's disappearance, I think Pauline's was quite immediate, that they were thinking the connection, but they were like John and Keith's are have to definitely connect and they're so close in time period.

[01:39:23]

Exactly. So the mother's Wendy and Sheila, they met to discuss this in the media, actually took pictures of it. And we're like two grieving mothers get together. Really sweet if that's like cool. They ended up meeting a couple of times after that, like keeping up with each other. And then Joan Pauline's mother joined as well. And they, like, bonded together, all of us.

[01:39:42]

Now, one day, a woman randomly walked up to Winnie on the street and said, you're Keith's mom, right? And then told her he's been chopped up and fed to pigs.

[01:39:53]

I literally hope that woman got chopped up and she was like traumatized, like she was like I felt like I was literally getting hit from all angles. Why would you ever do that?

[01:40:01]

Just like another piece of shit, just walking around. I hope you get hit by a car.

[01:40:05]

And she said this is when she started to lose hope. Yeah. It's like I'm really starting to think that, like, he's just not when you and I'm sure she like obviously didn't have people walking up to her saying shit like that. But you hear town rumblings, you're like and yeah, time starts to go by, you know. Exactly, exactly.

[01:40:21]

Now, Myra later said of these three children, John, Pauline and Keith, that she's such a piece of shit.

[01:40:29]

She later said that she likened them to lambs walking to the slaughter. Of course she did.

[01:40:35]

That's what she said about these three little babies.

[01:40:38]

She said she would watch them walk behind me and she would say they're like little lambs walking to the slaughter.

[01:40:43]

That's because she also said they all walked and she made sure to say this like this. She was like they all walked to their own deaths.

[01:40:49]

They weren't dragged. Well, no.

[01:40:51]

You could see their children preyed on their fucking trusting nature. Right. You absolute piece of garbage walk into their own death.

[01:41:01]

You took them there like you. It's just it's it's just her being a cunt that's so, like just they did it themselves. Yeah. Again, just I'm not going to take responsibility. They came right. And it's like, fuck off. So two months after they murdered Keith Saturday, August 15th, 1964, Myers little sister Maureen married her boyfriend, David Smith, 17 years. She did. David Smith would not too long after this became the man who single handedly stopped the Moors murderers.

[01:41:34]

Oh, shit. But not before they claimed two more innocent lives in the process.

[01:41:39]

But her sister's husband is the one that stops them. And we're going to talk about that in part three, you asshole.

[01:41:47]

Because honestly, I've actually I'm I'm like tossing out the last two are doozies.

[01:41:54]

And we've already had three deucy I think we all need to take a little breath. This whole damn thing is a doozy.

[01:41:59]

It's a lot for everybody to process. It's a lot for me to talk about. So we're going to break it right here. And I think we're pretty good. We're like almost two hours.

[01:42:06]

So I'd say this is a pretty good length and part three is going to be coming out on Saturday.

[01:42:14]

So in two days. Yeah. So just look out for that. It will be on Saturday and all of our episodes most of the time, like literally all of the time.

[01:42:20]

Come on, the end of the day. Yeah, at the end of the day, Wednesday and Saturday, if it's going to be a day, a day, which we hope won't happen often, we will let you know.

[01:42:29]

Yeah, we always do. But this one won't be late. Don't worry, it's coming on Saturday.

[01:42:32]

But in that one, we're going to talk about the final two murders, which are real bad. We're going to talk about David Smith and how he factors into this. I'm excited to hear about that.

[01:42:44]

It's very interesting how they were arrested, the trial, how they fucked each other over after the trial and all the way up until, you know, they both died.

[01:42:55]

So. All right, strap in, guys. I hope you handled that. I was going to say I enjoyed that, but I hope you handled that. Yeah. Hint about well, you're on Instagram decompressing. Shoot us a follow.

[01:43:07]

Yeah, I'm at morbid podcast. I just burped a little.

[01:43:10]

I hope you didn't hear that. That's fine.

[01:43:11]

You can also follow us on Twitter at a morbid podcast and you can send us a Gmail listener. Tales, case suggestions.

[01:43:18]

All of the above can be sent their morbid podcast at Gmail dot com. We'll be keep listening and we hope you keep it moving. But it's so rare that you might o'hanley and like an idiot, insync horrible songs to each other.

[01:43:30]

You guys are fucking worse. Yeah. There's only so much you say. Yeah. No you guys they suck and they're getting flogged in hell by miltiades. Correct. By.