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Hey, Weirdo's, I'm Ash and I'm Allena, and this is morbid. This is very morbid.

[00:00:29]

This is the biggest of all guys, part three of the Moors murders is going to be the worst one, I think, because guess what? It's not even over. Part three, Olina has an announcement.

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Spoiler alert. There's going to be four parts to this. Where are you going to say that at the end? No, I was going to say it's not even a spoiler.

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Well, we're going to have four parts because let me let me say this first, just in case everybody's like, no, I'm not waiting for another part.

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I'm going to give you your closure at the end of this. We're going to get to the sentencing. So I'm not going to leave you with some crazy cliffhanger that you're like now I like to wait two days to hear it. Your closure is coming.

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But so much happened after the sentencing and after they were put in prison.

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I feel I would be remiss not to do an entire episode on what happened after that, but would be very remiss of you. So think of the fourth episode is kind of like bonus information. It's not stuff that you're like. It's like I'm not going to leave you on a cliffhanger. So you feel like, you know, screw it at the end of this. And the fourth episode will be coming out on Wednesday because it's our release. So Wednesday at the end of the day, Wednesday it will come out, I promise, on Wednesday.

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We release on Wednesday and Saturday, Wednesday, Saturday. So it'll be there Wednesday.

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It's going to be, you know, part four will be powerful, will be a little more like it's like, yeah, it's not as heavy. We're not going to hear about any more murders.

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So it's like, are we really just going to hear about like in in my arguing with each other over the two watching kind of like the crazy things that happen in prison with them.

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So that'll be more of like a whoa, OK, so that's cool. You know those. Whoa.

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Well, I think we should start off with like a little bit of lighter news before we really dive into the hell hole that we're about to be in here to crash you back down.

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Exactly. If you don't have social media or, you know, you're Ron Swanson and you're off the grid, it's OK. I really get it. I'm going to tell you right now the exciting news that you may have missed. Are you ready?

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We have partnered with, like, a search team and we have new merch. We have actual merch. Actual merch. Like, it's so exciting. Don't worry, we're still working with murder apparel.

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The murder capital is part of it to this whole new thing that we're doing. And because we love them, I mean, how could we could never let go? We have a special place in our heart for murder apparel. We're essentially family. Yeah. Remember coffee date.

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Yeah. Oh, so fun. It was wonderful. Well, the new merch website, if you didn't see it on social media is shop dot morbid podcast dot com again that shop S.H. OPIS morbid podcast dotcom. There's Hoodie's, there's T-shirts and we're working on like a ton more. So as we get new things, some things are going to filter out. I mean, we're going to give you ample time to see what's there right now in order some stuff.

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But just know that it's not going to be there forever as we introduce new stuff, other stuff is going to get filtered out.

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Yeah. And we'll constantly be adding new designs and new styles and new items. So just we'll keep you updated on all that. But check back whenever you can.

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And, you know, it's fun and it's fun. We're already working on new stuff like we found now. Yeah. We feel so excited that we actually have like real merch to get so exciting in that we don't have to send it out from our living room. Yeah, we have finally made it finally that we can.

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Well, that's not even true. I have one more shipment to send out. Don't worry. There was like a little problem with the distributor, but I'm getting it sent out. But now we don't have to do that. And that's great. No, but now that we've gone that like, exciting news out of the way. Let's go.

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Womp, womp, womp. Yay.

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So when we last left, you guys and part two, we had heard about the murders of Pauline Reed, John Kilbride and Keith Bennett, and they were equally horrifying. Yet all across the board.

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Yeah, we heard how Ian and Myra have a very specific way of going about things. They planned it out to a tee. Myra fucks up the plan. Myra fucks up the plan a lot, but somehow they keep getting away with it and they kill, rape and bury children on Satyal worth more.

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That's their thing. They do continue to do that. But this next murder of Leslie Downey.

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Oh no, ten years old is the one that I began part one like mentioning, because it's the one that first of all, deviates is the first one that deviates away from what they've been doing because what they've been doing the first three times was they, you know, they pick out a kid that you're that kid in with the promise of something because they want them to help them find Myra's lost glove on the moors. That means so much to her.

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And because kids are always wanting to help you, that's how they just preyed on.

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I was going to say preying on. A weakness they continue to prey on weakness and prey on, you know, the helpfulness and kindness and naiveté of children, which is nice, but they now bring this child to Myra's home.

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Oh, so that is very different, very risky, very out of the very horrible and messy.

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We know it's important to now to say here that Ian and Myra don't live together. They stay together a lot. So they're essentially living together. Myra lives with her gran. Oh, she does. So this home that this happens in, her gran lives in this home.

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So she's like this is like very Jeffrey Dahmer ask. Yep, sure is. And Ian was also living with his mother. His stepfather. Yeah. His birth mother and a stepfather.

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So they're like they're like 20 somethings living at home, bumming off their parents and murdering kids and their parents house. Yeah. Like, that's the worst kind of 20 something year old you can have live in your house is a 20 something year old that's going to murder kids in it. Did Gran ever come out and say anything? She heard things. She did.

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Yeah, we're going to hear that. Oh, my God. Yeah. Poor Gran. Oh, poor Gran. Poor everyone.

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We're also going to learn that the Hindley gals are kind of just fuckups all together. Oh, really? Yeah. Maureen's you know, Maureen's a fuck up too. She's a fuckup.

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I mean, she's not I she's not a rape and murder. Kids fuck up, but she's a fuckup. OK, let's go. I'm ready. So let's do this.

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So we are going to start by introducing somebody who doesn't become a victim. Well, not a murdered victim of them, but she's important. OK, so this is a girl named Patricia Hodges. Hi, Patricia. She's twelve years old. OK, her mother was Elsie Masterson and they lived a couple of doors down from Myra's Gran's place. OK, so this was in like an apartment she kind of building.

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So she often went over in to where? To Myra's house where I was and where she would go over there.

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She'd hang out with them a lot. She would bring her toys over there. By all accounts, Ian and Myra didn't hurt her. Interesting. But then maybe they did. OK, so I'm so confused. I know they would take her to trips to the Moors a lot.

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And they'd like go have picnics. They also gave her wine a lot, and she was 12 you, which I would argue is hurting, but like whatever, I mean, but then again, I'm from America and I know that's very different.

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So but like, when it's them giving. Yeah, I don't want anything. I think of giving. I think it's them giving kids wine that I'm like you. But yeah, they would give her wine a lot. So Myra claims that there was nothing sexual, nothing inappropriate about their relationship. But at a medicolegal society meeting in November of 1967, there's a weird comment that was said about this.

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They said so this is what one of the people that were part of this meeting said, quote, They had shown some affection towards the little girl, Pat Hodges. They had also shown some of their sexual perversity towards her because she had been subject to assaults in the presence of Myra. Now, there is no more information about that to me, that sounds like she saw Ian and Myra like they did something in front of her.

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No, she was the subject of assault in the presence of my meaning. Ian assaulted her in the press in the presence of IRA.

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OK, and we will see this could. So at first when you hear this, you're like, oh, my God, what else? So nothing really came out of that. But then we bring back someone from a previous part that can shed a little light on this. Maybe whom Ronnie Sinclair, the ex, a.k.a. Myra Hindley, his ex fiancee, that they were going to murder someone just didn't do it. What did he say? So Ronnie Sinclair was sitting in a pub one weekend around where they lived.

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Yeah, Ian comes walking into the pub and he doesn't know Ian, so Ian can know him. Ian knows him because remember, Ian had done the reconnaissance. He was going to murder him. Oh, yes. Following him to work. He knew his whole schedule, forgot about that. But Ronnie doesn't know Ian. So he walks in and sits next to him, starts chatting with them. Eventually, he brings up Meira, his girlfriend, and Ronnie.

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He's like, oh, shit, OK, like, that's my arm. And just realize he's like, oh, awesome. We were going to get married. Oh, no. I think he's like, oh, you're the you're that guy. Yeah. So then Ian starts bragging about his life of like breaking into homes and stealing shit and how he's so good at it and he makes so much money at it and basically tried to get Ronnie in on a job with him was like, oh, do you want to be like a lookout?

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You can make some money. No, thanks. And Ronnie was like, no, thank you. So then Ian breaks out this fucking photo and he's like, well, are you into this?

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Takes it out of his jacket. And Patricia shows him this photo and he's like, Hey, do you like this kind of thing? It's a naked young girl, bound and gagged. Ronnie said he thought the girl looked to be about thirteen and he was horrified. So he was like, no, I don't like that. Like, no, thank you. That's not my thing. And Ian ignored that and said he took the photos himself and he was like the girls fine.

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Like she agreed to do it. And he said he had more like that.

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And Ronnie was like, no, still not my thing, bro. Like, just no, should it be anyone's thing? And he also so then Ian also asked him, do you know any girls who will pose for me? No. And he was like, what?

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And then he said, I prefer 16 to 20 year olds, but like, I'm really down for anything.

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I love it. He just, like, offered all of this up. Like Brauneis, like what the actual fuck. So Ronnie is like, good day, sir. It's like I came here for a casual beer.

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Well, now it's speculated that the girl in that photo, maybe Tasha Hodges.

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Oh, my God. And it's never been like confirmed. But that to me seems like something might have happened there. Yes. No way that girl was hanging out with them and something bad didn't happen.

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No, I just don't there, too. I mean, I hope to everything that it didn't, but it just doesn't seem that way. They're not the kind of people that don't do something to a child. Exactly. And later, Patricia testified. She said, we went up to the Moors together about once or twice a week. They took wine up with them. They took wine with them nearly every time. So it sounds like they really liked wine.

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I mean, saying like, well, like I said, they drank a bottle a day together. I mean, not same.

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And you know what? It affected both of them later in life. So don't do that. Oh, did it? Yeah, they were real sick later. A bottle of wine a day is a lot of work. And they were heavy smokers like they were and they were killing people.

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So I think like a man, you think just all of that was probably not great for the skin, you know, like she had. No, it's not.

[00:12:23]

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[00:14:45]

So during they did a reinvestigation of the case in 1987, like long after they had been caught and Meira told an investigator, Peter Topping, who he's the one who took her famous confessions, he got a lot out of her, but he got a lot of bullshit out of her, too. And everybody kind of looks at it to be like, oh, look what said to him, because she is just a lot of bullshit. Yeah, well, she said to him that both she and Ian had like what she called an affectionate relationship with Pat.

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Uh huh.

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Which is like I don't want an affectionate relationship with my. And she said, no, absolutely not inappropriate. Not sexual at all. And she said, but like when we would all go in the car, she sometimes would sit on Ian's knee.

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Mm hmm. And and didn't do anything normally.

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Um, yeah. I don't love that note. So that's just showing you a little bit about like they didn't it was kids.

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I'm pretty sure they were doing lots of other things and then those kids were not being murdered.

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Yeah. So they were just all around shit back.

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This is making me feel so yucky.

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So after we have that, because Patricia does come back during the trial, just like briefly, but I figured it was important to say now we're going to come to Boxing Day in the UK.

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Is that the day after Christmas? Yes, December 26th. This was 1960 for. The record that we would be associated with Leslie and Downie's murder, because, remember, they have to have a record for everything. Yeah, I was girl don't come by Sandy Shore, OK?

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Now, Leslie was 10 years old when she was murdered. She was petite, build's. She was four foot 10 inches tall. She had curly brown hair and blue eyes.

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She's like the cutest little multitude of I mean, that picture of her smiling with those little chubby cheek. She looks like a baby doll. It destroyed. She looks like a cabbage patch. It destroys me. And I think I like, tweeted about this last night because I had to step away from this particular case like this. You were of me. Elaina was literally like, I just want to let you know that tomorrow is going to be horrible.

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Yeah. I was like, this is going to be really bad. Like, it's so bad. And I had done the rest of the case like this part. And then I had I had left Leslie's moment for last because I just couldn't couldn't bear to get through it. I had read it a million times before and it always bothered me. It's haunted me since I first I didn't have kids at that. My goodness. And now it's just way too much for me.

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It's so bad. But I'm going to give it to you guys because one, her story should be told and to it's my job, so I'm going to do it. So she was beautiful. We posted a photo. We'll post another one. Yeah. Her mother and West. Let me just tell you, this woman, I she has since passed away.

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But you're really going to fuck me up. You just want to wrap your arms. I don't know how she survived, how she did. I really don't. So her mother and West said about Leslie, she always did. As she was told, she came in from school at the at night and she would go up, change out of uniform, make her bed, come down and do her homework. She was perfect. She was absolutely perfect. Oh, my God.

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But like her saying that, like, hurts, it's like so when Leslie was abducted the evening she was abducted, she was wearing a red tartan dress with lace trimmings. She was wearing a pink cardigan over it, red shoes, a blue coat. And she was wearing a string of white a necklace with white beads on them.

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And her older brother, Terry, had given it to her the day before for Christmas.

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Oh, my God. Everybody like, why does everything have to be so horrible?

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I swear they, like, knew these things somehow. So what happened on Boxing Day was Leslie went to a fair with her neighbors.

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Her older brother Terry was supposed to go with her, but he became sick with the flu that day and he couldn't go home. So the next door neighbor, Mrs. Clark, was going to take her own children and said she would take Leslie and her little brother Tommy with her. And Mrs. Clark was like, oh, don't worry.

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And like the mother, she was like, I'll watch them. Like, they're not going to go alone. That's why her mother allowed her to go without her present.

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Unfortunately, at the last second, Mrs. Clark decided not to go and sent the kids by themselves and didn't tell. And that, nope.

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So, OK, it wasn't long before. So they got to they got to the fair, you know, they lasted for a little while.

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There's only so much to do when you have, like, so much money in your pocket. They all had like a couple of coins.

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So they ran out of money. They got kind of bored and they were like, aren't let's let's go back home. And I think everything it was like they went back home for tea, which I was like, I love the UK.

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I do too. I was think that's amazing. But they wanted to go back.

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But Leslie was like, I really want to like hang out at the fair a little more and just like see everything.

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So I'll catch up with, you know. So they left and she stayed. Never leave your friends alone. I know these were all like young kids. I know. But the last person to see Leslie alive, aside from her vicious murders, Myra Hindley and Ian Brady, fuck both of them was Bernard King, who was 11 at the time.

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And he was attending the fair. Yeah. He said he saw Myra Hindley wearing a dark wig and he said she was holding Leslie's right hand and leading her willingly out of the fair. Oh, that's haunting as fuck.

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And he says that he was like, knowing what I know now, like, he was like I was eleven. I had no idea what I was witnessing. And he said she wasn't kicking and screaming. She wasn't dragging her out of the fair. I mean, it just looked like somebody walking. He could have thought it was her mom. Yeah. He was like I didn't think anything of it until I saw later and was like, holy shit, that's what I saw.

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Horrible.

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So what they did was they used another ruse to play on kids need to help adults. What did they do?

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They dropped boxes near Leslie and then they were like, oh, can you help us? And she was like, oh yeah, I can help you bring him to her because she's the sweetest little being ever.

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Exactly. So then I think that what they did was they asked her, you know, can you help us load them to our house and then we'll bring you home. And she was like, sure, I can help you do that.

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Oh, now, Ian says he wasn't there for this whole roof's part because he was like, that wasn't my thing. Like, I really was the one to lure them in. I was the one to pick them up afterwards. Hmm. Myra says that. So he says Lesley was already in the car when she came to pick him up. OK, like she had done that part by herself and then met up. Now she says. That Ian was with her when they did the box thing, so who fucking knows with these two shit stains, like they're just they're always trying to fuck each other over.

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They begin the whole thing, trying to save each other, and then they go the total opposite to try to fuck each other over. So who knows?

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Either way, they got her out of the affair. Yeah, unfortunately, willingly. Which is how that I think that's one of the things that's so bad about this case is like all these kids were led like honestly, like Myra said herself, like lambs to the slaughter. Yeah. They had no idea what they were in for. They were children. What how could they have possibly they just wanted to shore it up. What could happen?

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That's the whole thing, is they just thought they were going to help and like, go home after. Yeah.

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So it's just so fucked up.

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So meanwhile, Leslie's mom, this just I had to include this because this just shows who she was.

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And this just this is going to hurt your heart. Leslie's mom had made a bunch of snowballs to throw at Leslie and Tommy when they got home. And she was excitedly, like, waiting for them.

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She said, quote, So we went in and tidied the sitting room and enjoyed the last hour of unspoiled happiness and our entire lives. I just got chills. Oh, this one.

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So bad. So Leslie was brought OK, this is where it's going to get really bad. OK, I'm going to get through it.

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I was like, can you do it? But like fuck. OK, so Leslie was brought to Myra's Gran's home where her gran was visiting her uncle Jimmy for the night is gone and the sixteen minutes of tape tells us what happens next.

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Sixteen minutes.

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Hello. Is this just is this like an audio recording? This is an audio. OK, and they don't they only recorded them. Trying to take pictures of her, get undressing her oh, God, and terrifying her for 16 minutes. And the more you saw, the actual audio has not been released.

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It has not been released, to my knowledge. Everything I've read says that it hasn't been released to the public. Gotcha. There was a point when and West did say she wanted to release a portion of it for a documentary because she wanted to show everybody else vicious. These monsters are right and to tell her child story, but they determined that it's too harrowing for the public to hear. Wow. Yeah. So she is heard at the beginning of the tape screaming and crying, she's pleading with them to let her see her mommy.

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Oh, yeah, you said that in the beginning. Like, that's fucked up.

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She appeals to God at one point and pleads to God. She literally says, God help me, please. Oh, my God, they're her.

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They're heard through the whole time.

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They're trying to force a handkerchief in her mouth. Ian is terrifying and cruel on this tape, he doesn't say a lot, but what he says is chilling, chilling.

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Myra says a lot of the stuff, but Ian is very terrified, going to say what they say.

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So he's he's trying to force the gag into her mouth and he keeps telling her to shut up. Both of them are telling her to shut up. She's crying and screaming the entire time.

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At one point, he tells her if she keeps struggling, he's going to cut her neck open. Oh, my God.

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She's a ten year old who's crying for her mother.

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Like how I don't understand the depths, the depths of depravity he really is. Both of them. And that's what they wanted out of this. That's the sick part. This is what this is like. That's fun. Especially, I will say, especially Ian. Ian got off on cruelty to children. Yeah. That's just what he got off on. Meira, I think just liked got off seeing and got off. Exactly. So it's fucked up on a whole different level at one.

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So he tells her he's going to cut her neck if she doesn't stop struggling. Myra, who later pretended she was a member, it was not as evil as Brady and didn't she says she wasn't even there. Oh, yeah. She comes out with all kinds of stories. She is heard being just as cruel and says at one point as the child is screaming and crying for her mother and at one point is like, please, just let me say something.

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Please, just let me say it. Like she's trying to talk and she says in your mouth, hush, hush, shut up or I'll forget myself and hit you one eye.

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So, Meira, fuck right off with that shit that you're being manipulated by Ian Brady. You are this cruel mother fucker who looked at ten year old in the face while shoving a fucking gag in her mouth and told her you were going to fucking hit her like, yeah, and you weren't there.

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And you're going to her supporters and people supported her.

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I want to start a group that's like Punch Myra Hindley supporter, because honestly, if you supported this shit, fuck off. She had support and tons of supporters who thought that she was being railroaded and thought that she was manipulated by Ian Brady and poor fucking Meira, she would never have done this without.

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That's mind boggling.

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It's unusual in that she was being unfairly represented in the press.

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And it's like we don't need the press. This is to listen to the audio, like, are you kidding me? Wow.

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So at one point. Even that alone, I wanted to run out of here at one point she tried to call them mommy and daddy. And I think it was possibly to appeal to some kind of humanity in them, yeah, to be like because a normal adult would hear a child calling you mommy or daddy and would be like, fuck, what the hell is happening here?

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But I would them it just fed the yucky thing.

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The audiotape ends after they had bound and gagged her and stripped her naked. Oh, my God. The song's jolly old St. Nicholas and the little drummer boy I be heard playing.

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They then took this is like makes me laugh. I'm like I'm like noshes. I was honestly like that. I had to step away, like I said.

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And I'm giving you a very generalized overview is I really don't like kid cases.

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I don't want to do it for a long time. I don't like this one. I really don't.

[00:27:07]

But this case is so necessary to tell. They then took photos of Leslie naked in several positions and my room. She was sexually assaulted, raped, and then she was murdered.

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There is debate about exactly how she was murdered because when she was found, it was difficult for them to tell. I will get into it in a minute. But of course, as always, Meira, you know, the bullshitting anal fissure that she is. She said that she was looking away the whole time because she was nervous that Leslie's screaming would be heard through the open fucking window.

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I was like, what? Well, that's a lie right off the bat. Yeah.

[00:27:51]

As Dr. Alan Keatley points out in his book, there's no way they would have left a fucking window open.

[00:27:57]

There's no way they planned everything down to open a letter and somebody would have heard her and like, been like, what the fuck?

[00:28:04]

There's just no way he would have been that careless.

[00:28:07]

I'm like, genuinely, like, very nauseous right now. It's like I feel like I'm going to barf.

[00:28:11]

I'm glad we got through that part of it because I needed to get out of my fucking brain and I need to never look at this again. She's lying sack of shit. Like that's I mean, like we said, she can be heard throughout the entire audio, so fuck off.

[00:28:25]

And I hope she's I honestly hope that Myra Hindley is getting the same exact treatment that Lesley got in hell or wherever the fuck she is right now. I hope it's a daily occurrence.

[00:28:34]

Yeah, same because. Oh, it's so this is such an inspiration. It's just. So isn't this just, like, disgusting?

[00:28:43]

It truly is it truly, truly like I'm not kidding you.

[00:28:47]

I would kill her myself.

[00:28:48]

Oh yeah. I think about and West and I mean all these, all these parents.

[00:28:52]

But like NSW just this is like she did she have to go to the trial. Oh yeah. Because I don't know. I wouldn't be able to sit there without trying to murder her. Well don't worry, because their hands and hands very vocal and I just want to hug her each time. Oh well then Myra said so first she said she was looking out the window and she she didn't know what was happening. She didn't see her killed. She didn't see her raped.

[00:29:15]

She didn't see.

[00:29:16]

And then she says, oh no. You know what? I was in the bathroom after the photos were taken and I was running a warm bath for her. Oh, you were running a warm bath for her before you killed her house. Really? How nice of you to do before you brutally murdered. Really? Like that's what you were doing. So she said she waited in there for a while and then she came out and saw Leslie face down on the bed dead.

[00:29:40]

And she had clearly been raped. But she was like, I didn't hear anything and say anything. Of course not really. Like you're in a small, like, apartment. Yeah.

[00:29:50]

You didn't hear anything like, OK, cool.

[00:29:53]

Now on the stand. Later when they got arrested, attorney, the attorney general basically told Myra with this story that she was full of shit. And even he was like, even if you were looking out the fucking window, it's a tiny room, right? Like, are you heard something like this is not like a concert hall. Like you're in a room with her, like you knew exactly what was happening. Then they mentioned that she had literally they were like you literally threatened to hit her on the tape.

[00:30:18]

We all heard it. We heard you like you weren't like, what did she say?

[00:30:22]

You weren't trying to calm her down or anything or not being a part of it. You were actively participating in terrorizing this 10 year old like you're sitting here pretending you're not.

[00:30:31]

And she responded with on the stand, quote, I wouldn't have hit her much, much. I wouldn't have hit her much. Myra Hindley, ladies and gentlemen. I wouldn't have hit her much. I wouldn't have hit the terrified. Fucking 10 year old that I abducted from a fairground two days, I was trying to gag her and strip her before brutally murdering her, I wouldn't hit her much, only once or twice. What the fuck? There's so many parts of this that I just how also I like imagine an attorney like Cross examining her and just being like, I don't know how he didn't just walk out of the courtroom and be like, I quit, I'm done, I'm done for real.

[00:31:11]

Like there's no speaking to these two people.

[00:31:13]

I would die. I would I don't I, I don't think it's a it's one of those situations where you are speechless, blown apart, like it blows every part of you.

[00:31:25]

So Ian says, of course, that Myra is lying through her fucking teeth. He says, yes, she was in the bathroom. She participated in everything. She helped me assault her. She held her down for me. And then she herself strangled her with a length of cord. Well, I held Lesley down. Oh. So he does implicate himself as well. Like he was like where he says we were equal parts of. Right. He's evil as fuck, but at least he's fucking up front about it.

[00:31:51]

That's the thing.

[00:31:52]

He's evil on a galactic galactic level. But at least he's like, yup, I am, I'm gross.

[00:32:00]

He then said that she would take the cord out in public later, like at pubs in anywhere and like play with it because she liked knowing what it was and that other people didn't know what it was.

[00:32:10]

That reminds me of I forget the lady's name, but the case where they were on vacation or something. Yeah, she was wearing a necklace.

[00:32:17]

Yes. With the blood on it. And she just liked to knowing that that was Erica. Erica. Yeah. And he also says, yes, there was a bathroom.

[00:32:24]

I had her run a bath, but he said it was very quick. It didn't take a long time. And I we ran it so that we could wash Leslie's dead body in there and get all the fibers and dog hairs. That's what I thought, too. Like, he's like I'm not even going to pretend like basically giving her a bath.

[00:32:39]

Like he was like I murdered her and that was going to wash her body so they couldn't connect her back to me. Right. Like he's being honest.

[00:32:46]

Like, that's what I was going to say that when you said the bath, yes.

[00:32:49]

He was like because we had never killed in our own home before. So I figured we had to do much more here. So they then tried to bring Leslie to the bars to bury her, obviously. But the weather was bad. It was snowing like crazy.

[00:33:01]

So they brought her back to Gran's house and then they realized that they had to make sure grandma didn't come back because Myra was supposed to go get Gran and bring her back home that night. So Myra drove to her Uncle Jimmy's house and told her she couldn't bring it. He was like she was like, I can't bring Grönholm because the roads are really bad. And he was like, but you have to drive home anyway.

[00:33:23]

And you just drove here like you just drove here to tell me that and you're driving home. Why can't you just put her in the car?

[00:33:29]

So she was like, can't do it. Wouldn't you just like call and say that would not make sense. Like a moron. Later he was like, OK, like it. Later he was like, now I know. Right. But obviously at the time I was like, that's weird. And I don't know what to say.

[00:33:42]

Sometimes when people are like that, you're like, I'm not even going to argue you, I'm just not even what I wanted. This.

[00:33:46]

Meanwhile, poor Leslie's mother and stepfather Allen are losing their minds with why they called the police around 10:00 p.m. They were knocking on doors and frantically searching outside for her in the bad weather.

[00:34:01]

All the while, Leslie was lying naked, dead and facedown on their bed. Well, they slept in another room. Oh, my God.

[00:34:10]

Yeah, they just threw her on the bed, face down. Figured we'll take care of it tomorrow. Let's go to sleep. We'll figure it out tomorrow.

[00:34:16]

That's so that's beyond fucked.

[00:34:19]

So the next morning, Ian and Myra will be were able to get out to the moors because the roads had cleared. Ian ran out with the shovel to get the grave ready. It was near Pauline Reed's grave. Oh, wow. Well, Myra was waiting for with Leslie's body in the car.

[00:34:34]

A police officer pulled up beside her and he said, is everything OK?

[00:34:38]

He's like, everything cool with your car? Like, do you need a jumper? Anything? She's like, yeah, no, it's running.

[00:34:43]

Well, there's just a dead body in here. Yeah, no guilt.

[00:34:46]

She said something about needing to wait for her car to start properly or she was letting, like, sparkplugs dry out or something.

[00:34:52]

She made some of bullshit. Yeah. And he was like, OK, cool. Just drove away.

[00:34:57]

Why does that always happen in like the most gruesome cases? Can you imagine that cop later. That's like a bad temper. Yeah. Like he got stopped with a head in the back seat.

[00:35:06]

Oh, my God. Yeah, I got to go. I'm calling in sick for the rest of this. OK, bye. Yeah.

[00:35:11]

You know, it's just so Ian buried Lesley naked with her clothing on top of her and put the strand of white beads that Terry had given her on top of that.

[00:35:23]

And she was so excited about that necklace and it was like her older brother and her poor older brother Terry, like feel such immense guilt for having the flu and not being able to go nothing.

[00:35:35]

You did nothing. He did. But he's like, if I was there, like, this wouldn't have happened.

[00:35:39]

It's like, I can't know, you know, who Amanda and I feel like everybody has a right to be mad at it. The mom that let them go by yourselves and Mystikal and like, I'm sorry, Mrs. Claus, you're in charge of somebody else's kid. You need to tell the parent exactly what you're doing. Exactly. Like if anybody gets mad at me for that, I don't care. No, that's honest. She fucked. I think this is a universal truth.

[00:36:00]

So you don't fuck with other people's kids?

[00:36:02]

No. That's why my kids are never going to. Sleepovers are like anything anybody else. I'll be like your friends can come with us, but that's it. But you're not going anywhere. No. Sorry. Bye.

[00:36:10]

So a couple of weeks later, they took photos of themselves smiling together, standing next to Leslie and Grave.

[00:36:18]

Wow.

[00:36:18]

Yep. Police dragged waterways and canals. The fare was completely torn down.

[00:36:24]

Allen West was questioned, of course, because the bastards are always being questioned and especially a stepfather like this the last time. Yeah.

[00:36:32]

And Leslie's family actually moved out of their home because they couldn't bear to be in it anymore because it just had too much memories right now, apparently.

[00:36:40]

And Leslie's mother allowed one of the photos to be shown publicly for the first time in that documentary that I mentioned. I don't have the name of it. I don't even know if it like if you can find it. But for part four, I'll let you know if I can find the documentary.

[00:36:56]

OK, it's about the case is from nineteen ninety nine. She agreed to parts of the tape being aired, like I said earlier.

[00:37:03]

Yeah, but they were like the public can't hear this.

[00:37:06]

She agreed to all this because she wanted to show how evil these two were and she wanted the world to know this is what they did to my baby. Yeah. Don't let them out of jail. Don't have support for them. Don't have sympathy for them. This is what they did. Right. And she's right. So later they found Myra's fingerprints on the photos taken of Leslie Van because she had fucking looked at them after Ian developed them.

[00:37:31]

So, again, if she's going to pretend that she was there unwillingly and was just going along with what Ian was telling her to do, then why did you look through the photos later?

[00:37:43]

Right. Like, what did you get out of that? Because you're just as fucked up as him. Exactly. It's insane.

[00:37:50]

So she later said, quote, I don't even want to know what she fucking she later said about it when they asked her, you know, like, why are you.

[00:37:57]

Because she so many things, like, I'm so ashamed, like, fuck right off. And she'd be like, you know, I don't know what to say, blah, blah, blah. But then she said one final thing. That was like a nice dig at her mother. She wrote or she said, quote, The girl shouldn't have been out at that time of night. Are you kidding me? So. She shouldn't have been out at that moment for you to do what you did because, like, so it's her fault now.

[00:38:23]

Well, if you feel that way, why didn't why would you offer her a ride home and bring her home then?

[00:38:28]

Like, this is why Myra Flick's from, like, innocent to, like, depraved, innocent, too depraved in the public so much that it's that's why when she was going for parole, it was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[00:38:42]

So Ian said about Myra when she was trying to get get the parole later, quote, She regarded periodic homicides as rituals of reciprocal innovation, marriage ceremonies theoretically binding us even closer.

[00:38:56]

Yeah. As the records show, before we met, my criminal activities had been primarily mercenary. Afterwards, a duality of motivation developed. Existential philosophy melded with the spirituality of death became predominant. We experimented with the concept of total possibility instead of the requisite Lady Macbeth.

[00:39:17]

I got Mizulina who's busily Mizulina sorry. And actually I wrote Who is Misalign? Who is.

[00:39:25]

She was the Empress who reigned next to the Emperor Claudius in ancient Rome. Claudius was fucked and she was known to be super promiscuous and also known to order Claudius to execute literally anyone that she just didn't like.

[00:39:41]

So he's saying, I thought I was getting Lady Macbeth and I got I got ten.

[00:39:46]

I got more than I bargained. Yeah. Which is like he loved I was going to say love. Yeah. That was like his jam.

[00:39:51]

In a letter to Dr Alan Keatley, Ian said that at this point after they killed Leslie in Downey.

[00:39:57]

Yeah, they were bored. Oh, they killed four kids. And, you know, now they wanted something new. What do you want so much? He said, this is crazy. He said they discussed at length the psychological and logistical mechanics of creating a small race. War was all Charles Manson. Yeah, they did it beforehand. Charles Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, they did it before him. Yep. They were like Helter Skelter.

[00:40:29]

And then he said, however, we had no political or racial motive was just for the fun of it.

[00:40:35]

He said to us it was simply an existential challenge, an end in itself. And then he said, We also discussed and researched the existential challenge of derailing an express train.

[00:40:48]

What so they were like we got real bored with.

[00:40:52]

Killing kids, you know, when we were over that, so we decided we could start a race war or we could just derail a train and watch everybody die, OK, well, like decides, you know, Wednesday thing, I keep shifting in my seat.

[00:41:07]

I'm sorry if you're hearing. I'm just just uncomfortable. So uncomfortable. Now, during all this madness with Leslie and such, David Smith, who is married to my sister Maureen at this point.

[00:41:17]

Oh. You say has just gotten married. Yeah, they have. They now have a baby girl named Angela. No, thank you.

[00:41:24]

And they were apparently in love with Angela. They were very happy as a family. David said he felt like his whole outlook on life had changed.

[00:41:32]

He was very doting. He also said Ian and Myra didn't give a shit about their daughter.

[00:41:38]

Myra never held her like that's her only niece of her sister, supposed to be her best friend. Yeah, that's weird. And it's her little sister that would literally be like me not being like your kids. And actually, they were like the way David put it was like there was no, like, loving and doting, like Uncle Ian and Auntie Myra, like they were just not into it at all.

[00:41:59]

And she was an infant.

[00:42:00]

That's like unfathomable to me. Whenever you're pregnant, I literally lose my shit.

[00:42:06]

Well, that's a normal response to somebody. You love having a baby. Yeah, but April 24th, 1965, and this is really sad.

[00:42:15]

Maureen and David Smith's daughter died at six months old.

[00:42:18]

Oh, she died of bronchitis. Oh, they were devastated. Yeah.

[00:42:23]

And the two couples started hanging out more because I think Maureen was just looking for her sister's comfort. She was like, I just need somebody. And it kind of organically just helped them numb the pain. Of course, they started bringing them to Seattle, worth more fucked up. And many times they brought them to gravesites without them knowing just to get kicks out of it. That's not funny. Yep.

[00:42:46]

This is after their own baby had just died there, bringing them to gravesites of children they've murdered. Yeah.

[00:42:52]

Yep. So now they're hanging out with Ian and they're hanging out. And Ian and David would sit and drink and chat. And Ian kept trying to get David into like the robbery, housebreaking kind of thing.

[00:43:04]

And he's always trying to recruit, like always be closing in on him. Like also.

[00:43:10]

Are you even doing that anymore? Yeah, like, you just do it yourself.

[00:43:13]

Like, why are you constantly trying to recruit everyone around you a lot?

[00:43:16]

He figured it was a good way for David to make money because David was struggling to get jobs. So he was like, yeah, you can make money with me. And David was like, maybe I'd rather do it the honorable way.

[00:43:26]

Sure. Actually, David was no no Boy Scout rebel himself.

[00:43:31]

But I mean, he was he was not this bad, but he was not like he was like, no, sir. Like he was just like, I don't know. I'm a little nervous about that. Yeah.

[00:43:39]

So but then Ian, according to David, asked him if he was capable of murder, like, you know, all of a sudden just came out.

[00:43:46]

It was like, hey, yeah. So you should do some robberies with me. Like, it's super easy. You can just be like a lookout. Do you think you're capable of murder? I also love that. What's it David is isn't name. Yeah. He's like I'm a little nervous about like breaking into these houses and he's like, but what about murder?

[00:44:01]

Like, you know what to do that will start small. You want to murder a child like that might be easier. Yeah. Than that. Than a rock. But you know what? To Ian, that's probably like the starting point. He's like, let's murder a child. That's very easy and then we can move on to robbery bananas.

[00:44:16]

It's insane. David was like, well, and he was like, uh, Ian was like because I've done it.

[00:44:22]

Oh. And he was like, what now? And he said, I've done it. I've killed three or four. You don't really believe me, do you? Their bodies are buried on the moors.

[00:44:31]

You and Maureen were sitting there. One of them.

[00:44:33]

Oh my God. Can you have so fucked up to do to someone? I'm not laughing because it's funny. I know it's because I'm so uncomfortable.

[00:44:40]

There's going to be a lot of nervous laughter and like, weird emotions happening. Yeah. Like everybody's just got to go with it because I'm sure honestly, I'm sure you're listening right now being like, oh yeah.

[00:44:49]

So we all get it. We're all in this together. Oh yeah.

[00:44:52]

You guys were sitting near one. Oh oh.

[00:44:53]

Well can you're just sitting there drinking with your brother in law and you're like, oh I now what the fuck.

[00:45:01]

Eventually he did convince David Smith to commit a robbery with him and he was like, honestly, David probably agreed out of fear because yeah, he's like, well, now I know that you murdered someone. So even said he said a bunch of times that he was like, you know what? I was nervous that David was a little too scared to go through this. He wasn't he was too much anxiety. He didn't have the nerve. And he was like, you know what?

[00:45:23]

I got to test him.

[00:45:24]

I got to make sure that he's going to be someone who's not going to run and bail at the slightest sense of danger, you know.

[00:45:31]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he said he was going to take him to them.

[00:45:34]

He was like at first I thought I'd just take him to the moors with a victim that I grabbed, you know, and he said he was going to try to hand him a gun to shoot the kid.

[00:45:43]

And if David wouldn't do it, he would ask for the gun back and then shoot them both in the head.

[00:45:48]

But like, why are you even involving David? Like, what is the point of that? I don't get it, I. Is it to add to the excitement because they were bored of killing?

[00:45:55]

I think it was to add to the excitement and I think it was also some weird thing where he felt he I feel like he got off on the fact that he was like kind of corrupting my sister, OK, which was an important person in his life to her.

[00:46:09]

Well, I also liked her.

[00:46:11]

So I think it was like a mixture of just getting her involved in some way, OK? I feel it just corrupting people in general. Yeah, it almost seems like he wanted to start a community of, like, just fucked up people. Like, you want to think, yeah, do Charlie Manson. Hello.

[00:46:25]

We're the community of fucked up people doing fucked up things. How can we help you establish 1966? How can we hurt you? How can we hurt you?

[00:46:33]

Wolf, it's so the robbery was in a few days and David was acting more and more nervous about it. Every time they brought it up, he was like, yeah, totally. I totally understand. This is exciting. So it was like, all right, we're going to test him because I think he'll crack, but I'm not going to do that Mars thing because I don't have a victim picked out. And it's a big thing.

[00:46:50]

But he would crack. Yeah. You know, anybody would crack for that. And so he told David that they could practice the robbery by and I quote, rolling a queer.

[00:47:00]

What does that mean?

[00:47:01]

Which meant convincing, convincing a gay person to come back to the house, like acting that they wanted to have sex with them and then just robbing them, rolling a queer.

[00:47:11]

And at this time in the sixties, it was illegal to for like homosexual acts.

[00:47:16]

Yeah. So they could rob a gay person by promising them sex acts or doing sex acts with them and then robbing them.

[00:47:24]

And they knew they weren't going to get in trouble with it because that person wasn't going to go to the police because they would get in trouble because holy shit, because life is just one big fucked up medley. It's just like a layer after layer of shit in this case. So October 6th, 1965.

[00:47:44]

Oh, man. Edward Evans would be the last victim of Ian Brady and Myra Hindley.

[00:47:50]

The record that they purchased and that they would think of for this one last one was Bob Dylan's. It's all over now, baby blue.

[00:47:58]

No, you don't ruin Bob Dylan for someone. They did it. No, they sure did.

[00:48:03]

I'm glad it was that song, though, because I don't really like those song. I'm glad.

[00:48:06]

So Edward was seventeen years old. He was one of three children to his parents, Edith and John. He was a good kid all around.

[00:48:14]

He was an apprentice engineer actually at AEI Electrical Works on Trafford Park Estate.

[00:48:22]

When he was murdered, he was wearing a white button up shirt, jeans, a brown dress, shoes and a nice suede jacket. Because he was going out that night. Yeah, that particular evening, he was going to be meeting his friend Michael, and they were going to go see Manchester United play Helsinki at Old Trafford Soccer Stadium.

[00:48:41]

I knew that Man United was going to play part in this. Did I know that man United? I love how you just were like, you know, Man United because my step mom is like a huge, opinionated fan.

[00:48:51]

I love it. So. So, yeah, he was going to meet his friend Michael. They were going to go see the game all excited.

[00:48:57]

Well, his friend bailed at the last second and he was like out at a bar waiting for him and he just didn't show up.

[00:49:03]

So he was pissed. He was like, that sucks. I had like a whole night planned. Yeah. So Ian, Ian and Myra were out to get wine and Ian walked out to get the wine, like in this basically like I Packy I don't know what they call it in the UK, but we probably had to know probably a liquor store.

[00:49:19]

I'm probably like something weird. We're like I'll pack a pack.

[00:49:23]

And they saw and so he sees Edward outside of it and he was like, that's the guy.

[00:49:29]

I'm going to get that guy. So he asked him if he wanted to come to his place and have some drinks. And Edward agreed because he again, his night just got fucked up. He's said, sure, why not? So he asked him, You want to come back? He says, sure. And he acted. He did. And he said it.

[00:49:45]

He was like, I acted like I wanted to have sex with them.

[00:49:48]

Well, and Ian was gay or excuse me, by and actually most people think that he was actually like gay. He was not by but that he was just like Myra does look like a dude.

[00:49:59]

She sure does. So so it's very possible. But he said I you know, I made it very clear to him what I was looking for.

[00:50:06]

And he was he was into it. So when they got in the car, he was like, oh, this is my sister Tamaya. About Meira. Yeah.

[00:50:13]

Because he's like, I wanted to make it as an again, a woman always makes people feel a little less threatened. Yeah. And all these kids you see a woman you're always told, be scared of scary men. You're not really told as a kid, be scared of scary women. Tell my kids to be scared of everything.

[00:50:30]

Yeah, basically. So he says Meyers's sister Myra drops them off at her gran's house was grand tonight and oh, Gran was home. Oh, goody.

[00:50:41]

And Ian told her to get David Smith at Maureen's house. I was like, go get David Smith or their house because they're married. Right. And to wait a bit there before she returned with him. Now, allegedly, it appears Edward and Ian did have sex, this was while Meira was getting David Smith, Meira went to get Maureen went to Maureen and David's with and she used some excuse for why she was there that night.

[00:51:05]

Like she told, they're like, oh, I had to tell you this. And yeah. And so then she was like, Hey, David, can you walk me back home?

[00:51:11]

Because the streetlights are out and I'm nervous.

[00:51:14]

So he agreed and he took a walking stick with them and this had a string attached to the end of it. I was trying to look up pictures of this kind of thing and I couldn't really find anything that makes sense.

[00:51:23]

But basically it's like a walking stick.

[00:51:25]

And it had a like a long length of string on the end of it for why it's important because at first I was like, what we have I ever told you guys about this wicked cool game that's going to change game night forever?

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[00:53:01]

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But as soon as David in Myra show up, Brady led them into the living room where Edward was sitting on a couch and walked up behind Edward with an axe that he had hidden and came down with it on his skull, just boom out of nowhere. He said Edward turned at the last second to look at him and the blow went a little to the side, otherwise, according to him, it only would have taken one hit.

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Oh, OK.

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And but instead it took 14. This is Ian's telling of what happened next. Oh, we also you're in Gran's living room and you're slaughtering somebody. Oh, yeah.

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And Gran yells down at one point like, hey, what's going on? And I was like, don't worry about it.

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Yeah. So do they clean that up? Sorry, we're getting there. I'm sorry. So Ian's retell Ian's telling of what happened. Evans screamed out as I rained down blows to his head. He was writhing on the floor to protect himself. Myra was in the room watching. The two dogs were excited and barking in the kitchen. Myra's grandmother had been woken up by the noise and shouted down to ask what was happening. Myra shouted something in reply, but I was too occupied to know what it was.

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Evans was still alive. After I hit him about a dozen times, I went into the kitchen to fetch a length of electrical flex. I put a cushion over his head and strangled him by wrapping the wire around his neck. Evans stopped gurgling. It was suddenly quiet. The walls, floor and carpets were splattered with blood.

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I handed the axe to Smith so that his fingerprints were on the handle. I lit a cigarette and muttered something about it being the messiest murder I had ever committed. Myra made a comment about the terror in Evans eyes as he was being flayed.

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No, she didn't. Of course she did not. I don't think she said anything. No, she wasn't even in the room. She wasn't even in England.

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No, she wasn't. She was actually in Germany. Yes, she was totally gone.

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So she had taken a number and she was out of there. So, yeah, this is just in. I axe murdering someone just for the hell of it. Yeah, there's literally no reason for this, not that there's a reason for anything, but what, like you just hit an axe and just went in somebody's gran's house?

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That's the other thing. It's like you, didn't you? Who thinks of everything? You didn't think this one through to be like, well, that's going to be messy, right?

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So this is so bizarre to me.

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It's very bizarre. And that's how you can tell that they were unraveling. Right. Like, there's always that point. You can see where it was just they weren't going go for much longer. They were going to fuck up. And this is their fuckup.

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So then they took his wallet, his shoes and the murder weapon into I think they put him in a bag and they put them in an upstairs bedroom somewhere, and then they spread a white sheet on the floor. They placed Edward's body on the sheet. He then took that string from David's walking stick because he's trying to tie David to to this.

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Yeah. And he tied Edward with it into a fetal position.

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Oh, God. They then carried him upstairs to store in a spare bedroom to be disposed of the next morning.

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You know, Grainne was lying there like, what the fuck is going on?

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She says she knew that her kid was evil or why is my ugly as fuck sin grand bitch downstairs with that gaunt looking motherfucker?

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Yeah. And someone screaming.

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And now you are my other stupid granddaughter, stupid husband down there. Like, I'm just this poor old woman. She raised them seriously. She fucking raised them. And this is what they do to her. God damn.

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Well, what I need to know why Maureen so fucked up. And I feel like we're approaching that. It is actually. So you know what? I'll give it to you now. It's going to it might come up in part four.

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So because I said it now, I don't want to be like the Levinger. Basically later Maureen does end up having more kids and she turns into a complete shit bag and neglects them. And like malnourish is them and they get taken away from. She malnourish. Yeah. She doesn't feed them.

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They're all under six years old. She has three of them, three boys under six years old. She leaves them alone in the house to go like party, like she's a shit bag just like Morenas or just like Meyerrose who gives a fuck about bitches.

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Whereas Devah do I find out later. You will. Yeah.

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You'll find out where with Steve. With David factors into a lot of you know, David you David.

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So then they got to cleaning because of course now there's a big mess to clean up, like on the ceiling, like the ceiling.

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So he said it took the three of us almost three hours to clean up the blood in the living room using buckets of soap, soapy water and rags. The carpets were the most troublesome. I found it incomprehensible that the police couldn't find traces of blood on the carpets. This incompetence led them to assume that I had taken up the carpets before Evans arrived in preparation for the slaughter. Even Smith said that the carpets were down all the time. So yeah, so they couldn't find apparently they couldn't find any blood.

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But I don't think forensics was really at its height since the 60s in the UK.

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But so they sat around after this, after they cleaned everything up, all three of them drank together, smoked some cigs together, and they discussed plans for disposal because now what are we going to do?

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Yeah, they agreed that they would use David's recently dead infant daughter's baby carriage to transport Edward's body because it wouldn't arouse suspicion.

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And he agreed to this.

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What they wrote the plan down. I repeat, they wrote the plan down.

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Well, he's a Capricorn. Of course they did. I'm not sure. And then they put it in Ian's wallet, I believe.

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Yeah. You wrote the plan down like the stupidest thing I've ever heard, though. But I believe that I know I do, too, but like, fuck.

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So around three or four a.m., David is like a fucking wreck and he's trying to hold it together in front of them and act like it's like slowly wearing off.

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Well, and he just did not want any part of this to begin with.

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He got, like, bamboozled into this. Yeah. They just tricked him into being a witness of this murder.

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Yeah. And he's like, oh, and so he's trying to act like, yeah, this was fun. Can't wait to do it again, like yippy. And so around three or four a.m. he's like, you know what, I'm going to go back to Moreen if that's cool.

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Can I go. I'm going to go get some sleep so I can help you guys out with this like fun disposal plan tomorrow.

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Like, Woo, can't wait for that.

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And he said he was absolutely terrified and he thought he was he was like, I thought they weren't going to let me leave. I really thought he was next. Yeah.

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And he said he walked away, just walked down the street after they were like, OK, they let him go and he walked until they couldn't see him anymore. And then he broke into a sprint and sprinted all the way home. I believe he immediately told Maureen and she said he was like dry heaving and vomiting. He was so upset they immediately called the police. Yeah. And October 7th, 1965, at six or seven a.m., Constable Keith Edwards opened, answered the.

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Phone call where David told them, hi, my name is David Smith, there's been a murder. Aha.

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David Smith is the one who brought down Myra Hindley, Annie and Brady while they bamboozled him into witnessing a murder.

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And he immediately went home, was like, well, we're going to call the police now.

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It makes me so sad that Maureen turned out to be such a shit bad because you could have been heroes.

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I know we could be heroes, but they weren't true. Yes, just one day.

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But and actually, they were never treated as heroes because everyone thought David had more to do with this than he was letting on. What do you think? I don't think he did. The investigators don't either. OK. Was he like a great person? No. But did he have anything to do with any of the murders? No, no, I don't believe that. I wonder why people thought that. I think it's just because they took and well and Ian and Myra lie and say that he was part of things.

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So those people. Oh, yeah. Let's trust those guys.

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They've been such a beacon of honesty so far. So when they arrived when the police arrived, David told them the entire story. He included, you know, that Ian has told me he's killed before three or four times.

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He said this bodies buried on the moors.

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He's got guns in the house like he gave them all of it. He was like, here is all the shit you need, right? Please, please, please help me.

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And the police said he was genuinely terrified. Yeah, of course he was. And he was next. In fact, they said when they pulled up in the police car, he drove into the police car because he was like, I'm afraid they're around, like I say, terrible.

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But they were.

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Now, Superintendent Bob Talbot Dysport dispatched 24 uniformed and six plainclothes policemen to block the surrounding roads around Myra's gran's house, and the rest went to Ian and Myra's doorstep. OK, now, no one was out of the house by eight thirty a.m. when they were all waiting. Yeah, because Ian was planning to call in sick at work and Myra was going into work to not arouse suspicion that he was like, we can't fuck up our routine.

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You have to go to work. The only reason he wasn't going to work was because he hurt his ankle the night before. My God. And like a little bitch, he was like, my ankle hurts.

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You know, one time I worked an entire shift with a sprained ankle in heels, not Ian Brady. And my manager was like, you can go home now, not Ian Brady.

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So they so yes. So was on her way out. She wasn't going to be leaving until around close to 9am. So they were just kind of waiting for someone to open the door.

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Yeah. So Talbot, the superintendent, he sees a bread delivery man and he asked him if he can borrow his uniform in a tray of bread and he goes up to the door and just knocks on the door as a bread delivery man who does the like police officer?

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Oh, this police superintendent walked up to the door to be like, yeah, where's your bread? You're arrested. So he he went up there, he knocks on the door and Myra opens the door. Because if they walked up and just knocked on the door, those two were going to fucking go out in a blaze of glory.

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You know that? One hundred percent.

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But if he's walking up as a free man, the door is going to open my loves fucking cars.

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Exactly. Who doesn't really? So Myra answers the door. And in the way he describes it, it just made me laugh because he was like she looked about 35. She was 23. I told you, she's a rough 22 sister and I was just twenty three.

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I just love that little dig, like for sure dolls. She looked more than a decade older than what she actually was she did when you told me she was twenty two. And my last part of the part before I was like excuse. Erm well I don't think she ever looked twenty two.

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I think she came out of the womb looking thirty, thirty five is generous.

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I was going to say thirty five is like I'm thirty fo so it's thirty five. I'm like that's very nice.

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You also look eighteen and still a quarter.

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She looks, she looks a rough like fifty. She really does. She had a rough fifty. I'm not simply a bad forty something. Yeah it's a rough forty says she's like a forty. Yeah.

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It's no good. So she just answers the door and he's like hey there, hey I have some bread and she's like that's weird, we don't need bread.

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And he's like cool, I'm just going to come in your house because I'm like, Thanks for opening the door, honey. So. So he's like, hey, where's your husband? And she was like, I don't have a husband. And he was like, where's the man that lives in this house? And she was like, there's no man in this house. And he was like, and he just looks behind. He's like, what's that man sitting on the couch in there?

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And she was like, was that in? Yeah, it was just Ian sitting on the fucking couch in the living, she's like, there's no man, there's no man here. He's like, told you he was like, there, he's right there. What about that one? Well, so they they just walk in and they're like, yeah. So we know that you did this.

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So they walk in and is sitting on the couch like we're eating barely anything short because he's like scared. I like sharding his pants. See your face sharp. Like what I'm like is he's starting his pants. No he was not. Oh he was writing a letter to his boss to excuse him for work that day because his ankle hurt and he did not stop writing that letter as the police walked into the house.

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OK, he finished writing the letter.

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Don't know why, because he didn't need it, but OK, so he's sitting on the couch and they were like, all right, we're going upstairs. We're checking these rooms.

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They go to open one of the bedroom doors, the bedroom door, and it's locked.

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So they're like, open this up. And she says the keys are at the office and it's, you know, I'm not going to go to the office and get you those keys.

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And you're like, no, they're they're like, what now? And Ian, without even looking up, said, you'd better give him the key. I got a fight. Got out of hand last night. It's upstairs. Oh, no. So he's like, yeah, there was a fight though. It's upstairs. And they were like, what now?

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So they didn't they did get into the room and they found Edward's body.

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Is this what reminded you of the Twilight murders? So you thought, OK, yeah, OK, maybe think of it now.

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Ian had planned Ian and Myra had planned to go down shooting. Yeah.

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If they were ever caught, they had a very well worked plan that they were going to grab a gun and they were just going to start shooting police officers.

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That was what they're going to do normally. He had his revolver under his bed and under the pillow, but that they slept on. So he was sitting on the bed. He bent down to tie his shoes because they told them, get dressed like you, sickly looking motherfucker. Get dressed right. Look at your like Guanglie naked ass. He escaped.

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So he starts putting up he starts putting on his outfit and he's tying his shoes and he reaches back to grab the revolver.

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Oh, well, he realised that last night when he and David Smith were bringing Edward's dead body into the upstairs bedroom, he was wearing a shoulder holster with a gun it with his revolver in it.

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It was bothering him and making it hard for him to manoeuvre. So he took it off and threw it in another bedroom.

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Oh, how many other items are in this apartment? The revolver that he I think he threw it in the bedroom that he put Edward OK, but he was so you're like normally it would be under the bed, but I could just reach and go.

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But today one little thing that one little and he swore till the very end, if I had just put it under the bed, I wouldn't be here.

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But here I am. I kind of believe that and I kind of believe it.

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But so and those police officers are lucky, man, because I've been bad.

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That's a literal not today state.

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And their plan together was to kill anyone who tried to take them out. And then if it got too crazy and they couldn't do that, they had a murder suicide pact. Right. He was going to shoot her in the head and then kill spells out. But he couldn't, but he couldn't do it. So when they searched the rest of the home, they found the plans that they had written for disposing of Edward.

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They found books on sexual perversion and they found notebooks of Ian's where he had written the name John Kilbride.

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Oh, shit.

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And immediately they're like, oh, fuck. Like, what have we here? Because they're just looking at they had no idea that John Kilbride was going to be involved in this.

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They were like, wait, what? Or any of the other.

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So now they're like, holy shit, now we have to really look through this. So they were both brought in. Ian was charged with Edward Evans's murder.

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Myra was released after questioning because they didn't have anything on her and she stayed with her mother for four days.

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Those were her last four days of freedom. Oh, good. And in those days, she destroyed evidence. Tammet, of course, she said that she had burned a ton of envelopes without looking to see what they were.

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She didn't know what they were.

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But Ian was like, no, she knew what they were. Oh, she burst. Why else would you burn them? She burned. She knows what was in them. And then he said, actually, some of the stuff in those envelopes would have helped you locate Keith Bennett's body.

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Oh, no.

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And they never located that might not even be true. He might just be saying that to be a dick. He probably was the luggage ticket that would lead to the pieces of luggage that he had left at the railway station. Those luggage that he would put, like all the fucked up shit in. Yeah. Got like Meyerrose.

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Like I never saw what was in mouth. No, you did what?

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Meanwhile, you probably took half the ship. I was exactly the ticket. So it's the luggage ticket that you would need to go get those luggage things was shoved into that prayer book that she was given on her first communion there in part one when she converted to a new religion. Yes. Remember I said that prayer book by prayer book was going to come back?

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They had put the fucking luggage ticket, which the luggage is where the. Things that contain the Leslie and Downey tapes and photos were in her fucking prayer book, that's bananas, and then later she's going to try that religious shit again when she put the fucking ticket that has naked 10 year old girl photos in the thing that's connected to it in her fucking prayer book. So that whole religious shit that she pulled later, I'm like, you weren't religious.

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You're almost sacrilegious. Mother of the most blaspheming evil human on planet Earth. Are you kidding me? I am getting so hyped.

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It's insane.

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So so she couldn't get so she couldn't get that prayer book back because police officers were guarding her gran's home because it was still a crime scene.

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So she couldn't go in there and get the prayer book right. She was hoping she going to get rid of one. She was hoping they just wouldn't look in it. But she had displayed it because she liked being like she look at how religious I am.

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I am one with the God. But knowing that she had this fucking terrible thing in it. Right.

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Because it was like how they would put those pictures on, like, exactly in the in the album to fuck with people. Right. Well, they found it and they were like a vengeance. What have we here? They go to the luggage and they got the luggage.

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Open it up. They found the photos of Leslie Andoni and the tape and all they needed.

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Three p.m. Monday, October 11th, Myra Hindley was charged with Edward's murder.

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Oh, and she was brought back in.

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Also, four days later, while they were doing interviews, the police learned about Patricia Hodges, the 12 year old that lived a couple of doors down from her, and they learned that she went to the more Zeitun with them and they were like, holy shit, can you please walk us to where they used to bring you?

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Right. Because it might be where these kids are buried.

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Right. Because they love to do that shit. So Saturday, October 16th, police went walking and they pointed out a few things and they started looking through the photos that were like in this bag because some of the photos also were the photos they took of them at the mall. Right. They went with what Patricia Hodges was showing them, which they always went to certain spots, like very over and over.

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Well, on this October 16th day, they discovered Leslie and Downie's body using all of those different methods. Her mother, Ann, had to identify her body.

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She had to look at two photos that Ian had took of her and had to listen to a minute of tape to identify all of it. Allen West, her stepfather, said that he would have done it, but he wasn't blood relation and they wouldn't let him. Oh, my God.

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But he said it always bothered him that he didn't get to shoulder that burden instead of because he said I would have taken all that burden from her.

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I never would have wanted her to have simply he probably was like her father, like, oh, yeah, you know what I mean? Oh, he said he was like I and he said I would have taken that like a bullet for Faran.

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Right. Which just like you wish that they would just let him like you. Can't you just let him do it man. Like have you heard the fucking tape for real.

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It's just so after being charged with Edwards's murder and was brought into an interview room alone.

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And this was after they found the luggage. This is after they've now discovered Leslie's body.

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He doesn't know this.

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So Detective Chief and Superintendent Arthur Bean Fields in Superintendent Rob Tyrrell.

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It's either Tirrell or I like Tyrel because Game of Thrones Serialist, we'll go with it.

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They came in and they just stand there for a second and just look at them. Hey, bud. I mean, he's just like, whatever, because he's because he's so far of everybody.

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They come in and they just toss Leslie's socks, shoes, clothing and the necklace on the table in front of him.

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Mm hmm. And they informed him that they found these buried on the moors and they were like, you know what else we found? They we found these on top of her body. And they said, you know what's weird, we also found photos of her in your luggage at the railway station when we took that ticket out of that prayer book, which you left out for everybody. Did he chaat then?

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He didn't. So they said so he just they said, do you want to say anything? And he said, not at present. Yeah. So they said, OK, cool. We just want you to listen really quick to this tape we found to. But he probably enjoyed that. So they started. So they go to tap and he goes, I know the tape. Yeah. Because, I mean, it's like I don't give a shit.

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And he listened.

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They said he listened with his head in his hands like he wouldn't look at them. That's interesting. And then he said he said, OK, I took the photos of her and that's me on that tape. Yeah. And he said, but when she left my house, she left alive. Why would he even say that? And they were like, wait, what? And he said he was she was brought to me by two men, David Smith and another man.

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And I took the photos of her. That's what we agreed.

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I wanted the photos I'd like. Sure. Charge me with that. I sent her on her way and they took her. And that was the last I've seen her. So now he's saying David Smith killed her.

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Aha. So they were like, OK, so they do the same technique with Meira. They throw the clothes in front of her. They do the whole thing because they're not going to have the same story. They start playing the audiotape and she just says, I have nothing to say, nothing to say.

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And they were like, do you want her? Like, No, no, no, you're going to say something. And she said, I'm ashamed. That's all she could say. So then they do the same thing to David Smith because now he's been implicated.

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So I'm going to do what I had to hear that David Smith started sobbing when he heard the tape because, yeah, he hasn't heard this like this. He was not present for that. Right. So he starts sobbing.

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So they're like, yeah, that's that's quite a reaction. I believe that that's probably genuine.

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Right. So then October 21st, 1965, both Myra and Ian were officially charged with Leslie Van Downies murder no good.

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So after Leslie, they started looking further into these photos that they found in the photo albums and in the luggage. And these are the ones of them posing on the moors because now they found Leslie through them. So they're like, this is real. These are grave markers. So they realize, you know what, we got to really take these seriously. So Detective Joe Munsie, who had a very special interest in the case of John Kilbride, like he was very focused on that case.

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He wanted so badly to solve it. He had done a recreation of the case of his last day. Right. Just to try to find something. And his brother, I think his brother Terry, was the one that volunteered to play John in that recreation. And so they went like hard to find this.

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So and John is the body that they've never found. No, Keith is Keith. And they did find John. OK, so Detective Joe Munsie, he had the special interest in John Kilbride. He was walking out there with Inspector Chadwick and crime scene photographer Mike Mashita, I believe.

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So they took the crime scene photographer Mike Mashita out there because they wanted to use the photo that they had that they could, like, put it up and see where the site was, which the Moors are like 400 miles, like, you know, like it's vast.

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That's crazy that they were able to identify.

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It's insane. So they ended up because they stumbled upon a place that looked just like the photo. Yeah. And then they had Mike take a photo so they could compare the two photos so they could really make it really the place.

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And so they stumbled upon this place and they they look and they're like, this is the one of mirror holding puppet the dog. And it's the one where she's looking at the ground underneath her like she's crouched on top of it. Now, they're like, this is it. This is exactly it. So Shaddick Inspector Shaddick takes a stick and he just pushes it into the soft ground there and he pulls it back out and he holds it up. And the smell of decomposition is on the end of the stick.

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Oh, no. It was John Kilbride's grave.

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The investigators brought his shoe to his home for his parents to identify first. And his brother Terry later said, quote, It broke my mom's heart and my dad just sat in the chair with his head between his knees.

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Oh, my God. I can't imagine.

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Yeah, his mother, Sheila, was the one who made dinner for him every night and bought him the presents for his birthday. She had to go identify him at the morgue that day. And she said she could tell by the football button she had sewn onto his jacket that that was him.

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God, because he was very decomposed, had been over a year, and he had also been in a grave that had water running through it.

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Oh, yeah.

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So when questioned about the photos of her crouching and happily gazing onto the grave of John Kilbride, which they were able to determine that the date of that photo was after he was buried there, you were able to tell that.

[01:19:00]

So they questioned Myra about that and she denied it. No, like, I didn't know that he was there. We have a picture. She was like, yeah, weird. I had no idea he was OK. They're like, OK, I would stab. Her with the football buttons. Well, so what? This is this is pretty amazing, I think. So what Detective Gilman's he did because he was getting sick of her shit. Yeah.

[01:19:21]

And he was like, OK, that's cool. I'm going to put together. So he put together a random little album with with just random photos of her and Ian and just like normal photos. And then he interspersed photos of Leslie and Jon's decomposed corpses, but variously like through this. Good. So she's flicking he's flicking through it for her and she has no idea when another one is going.

[01:19:42]

Just like what they did to people. Exactly. So she turned away when she saw them and said, I don't want to see anymore.

[01:19:49]

But he was like, OK, asshole. And he was like, OK, no, I'm going to push this even further into your face. So he put it even closer to her and he was like, oh, no, honey, look at what you did. So eventually she screams, take them away. I'm not looking at them.

[01:20:04]

I would hit her over the head with them. Like, not only are you going to look at these because I don't even give a quarter of a fuck about your sudden delicate constitution that you have suddenly grown right. That you somehow have just grown out of nowhere after murdering innocent babies.

[01:20:22]

But now I'm going to use a fucking one of those purple Elmer's glue sticks the little kids use. I'm going to fucking stick them to your eyeballs so you don't have the fucking choice since their parents who identified them in the horrific state at the goddamn morgue will never have the choice to look away from the images in their mind of their babies like that for the rest of their fucking life.

[01:20:42]

There it is, you asshole. Yeah, I take those away. I don't want to look at them, do you think? And West wanted to look at her fucking child being used pornographic by you too sick. You know what they should do?

[01:20:54]

They should literally just hang them up every day in her cell.

[01:20:57]

They should take an Elmers glue stick and and stick them to her fucking eyeballs that she couldn't see them that way. I don't care. I know. I want her to see them. Fuck her. I know. I want her to see her. Her eyeballs with a fucking lighter.

[01:21:10]

No, let's not let go so that we so she could see them in her cell every day. So. So he didn't say all that much harder.

[01:21:18]

He didn't. Oh I want to hurt. I do too. I want to hurt you. Just I, I want to stab her with the football but I want to hurt her with everything I have. I truly do.

[01:21:26]

So then you didn't like I said he didn't say all that. Yeah.

[01:21:30]

No he didn't know but he was real annoyed with her so he just kind of like stepped off and then he looked at her and without any context he just started quoting a Bible passage and he said, suffer little children to come in to me and forbid them not for as such as the kingdom of God.

[01:21:49]

And then he left. Oh. And she was like, what the fuck?

[01:21:53]

Yeah.

[01:21:53]

Because he was trying to like because she's making a total mockery of religion by pretending that she like her fucking prayer book with the right in it. And she's trying to pretend she's still very much like she goes back and forth because on the stand she wouldn't swear on a Bible interests, which is fine if you're not religious, because I probably wouldn't either.

[01:22:11]

But she says that she has a prayer book, but she's like, what if I can't? So he was just using it as like a good like, can you refuse to swear on the Bible?

[01:22:20]

Yeah, you can. Oh, I didn't know that.

[01:22:22]

You can't you can use your own, like, if you use the Koran or you use the, you know, any other kind of like book of holy book.

[01:22:30]

So when he did this with Ian because he did the same thing with Ian.

[01:22:33]

Yeah. He was totally unaffected by the just I was like, whatever, that's not funny. And he just seemed to laugh.

[01:22:39]

And then he was just like, OK, yep. We did intend to take that photo of Chen Kilbride's grave.

[01:22:45]

Like we thought it was funny. Yeah. Because, like, he just was like, yep, that's what we did. And then he was like, and you know what? I did kill Edward. Like, I definitely did that. And I hit him like 14 times. And then he was like, I did take the photos of Leslie. But like I said, David and the other guy, he started he stuck to it.

[01:23:03]

Meira So they're sitting in there waiting for their trial. While this is happening. Meira sent a letter to her mom saying, can you send me some, like, better heels because hers were trampy looking her heels. Yeah, that's what's important.

[01:23:17]

OK, and then she had her lawyer ask the court to allow her to get her hair done and dyed. Because and I quote, this is what they sent to the court. Her dark roots are becoming very obvious. This fact has been the subject of press comment, which is naturally a source of irritation to our client. It's irritating to you that your roots are growing in prison because you're in prison, because you murdered children, you know what's irritating?

[01:23:48]

You murder children also. I can't. How did they find a hairdresser that was down to do that girl's hair? Well, it was denied. Like, why? I feel like, fuck, you know, oh, my God, you know what? I would do her fucking hair and I would leave that bleach on and I would keep applying. And I'm like, it's not like it's just gonna bring that bitch would.

[01:24:11]

I've given myself scalp abrasions because like, I love to be super blonde. I would give her so many scalp abrasions that she would just be a scalp abrasion. Well, I wish you were here for this.

[01:24:22]

Fuck me, too. No one thought to do that well, but it just the fact that they were like it's really irritating her that the press is commenting on her dark roots.

[01:24:31]

Like, she's got dark roots that are not just her dark roots run deep. Yeah, right from the womb. Oh, shit. So December 2nd, 1965. Can you imagine being a lawyer like, you know, I understand. Fighting for certain things. Yeah. You're going to fight for this bitch's hair. Yeah. No, I'd be like I quit. I feel like we're not going to do that, Myra. No, go ahead. Sorry.

[01:24:52]

So Ian was charged with murder in Meira was charged as an accessory after the fact. That does change later. OK, but initially that's what the charges were going to like. But now during the committal hearings in early December and committal hearings are where they determine whether the case is going to be held in open court.

[01:25:10]

Basically, they were protected behind glass.

[01:25:13]

And actually a journalist took a photo of them that I had never seen before until I looked this photo up after reading this. Well, because you always see, like, the normal photos of them that everybody's seen like that. Yeah. You know, the ones of them on the moors and the ones they took at the police station.

[01:25:28]

But this was a weird, like candid one. It was just weird. Is it the two of them together?

[01:25:32]

They weren't allowed to take photos.

[01:25:34]

And so he got they got in trouble for publishing this, but it's them standing in court together next to each other and there's glass around them.

[01:25:42]

And it's just strange to see them in like a a public setting, I guess. I don't know what it is.

[01:25:47]

It's like very weird, but we'll post it for sure now. And they put glass for their own protection. Yeah. During one of the hearings. And this just this like just my heart.

[01:25:59]

So during one of the hearings and W was on the stand and she's answering things, and then all of a sudden she just stopped going.

[01:26:06]

She looked at my ear and she said, I'll kill you. I'll kill you. An innocent baby. She can sit staring at me. And she took a little baby's life, the beast. And then she just kept calling her a tramp before dissolving into sobs. And I feel so.

[01:26:22]

Meanwhile, while this is happening, Ian and Myra are holding hands and comforting each other. And Myra whispered to him, I'm not a tramp. Oh, my God.

[01:26:32]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. You are the tramp. Oh, I hate her.

[01:26:41]

So I'm not a tramp and I'm not a tramp. And then Ian was like, you know, you're not a tramp. Like, that's what you're worried about right now. They're both tramps.

[01:26:51]

Use a tramp. You are both tramps. You're worse than I. I can't even think of what you are fucking.

[01:26:57]

I would have I would have broken the fucking glass. I would have killed her right then you can just imagine and was like, just can you imagine being like I would I would not be controllable.

[01:27:07]

Yeah. Oh, so Leslie's biological father, Terry. Yeah, because remember, Alan is her stepfather, right, Terry and her uncle Patrick, they attended these hearings as well, obviously. Yeah. And they wanted to kill these two, obviously.

[01:27:24]

And they attacked a police car outside that they thought had Myra and Ian.

[01:27:29]

But what happened was because the mobs to the side of these things got so huge and dangerous because people wanted to fucking kill them. Yeah, I wish they just I was going to say they should have just let them just let them out and let the kids take care of cases like this. They, like parents, should be allowed to kill their children's murderers.

[01:27:48]

Oh, I believe at me, I believe wholeheartedly that if you are I mean, there's audiotape.

[01:27:55]

Yeah, there's photos. It's proof. There's evidence.

[01:27:57]

Like if that happens, you should be as a parent should all be allowed in a locked room with that person to destroy them. Just do whatever you want to destroy.

[01:28:07]

I would support that 100 percent. Well, they attacked this police car and what had happened was they had used decoys, dammit.

[01:28:14]

And Ian and Myra were still inside waiting for that to happen.

[01:28:18]

They were they were like tackled down by police, obviously, and they were told, you know, you can't do that.

[01:28:23]

I feel like I can do whatever the fuck I want for the rest of ever be like, oh, no, I'm definitely going to murder them, just so you know. Thanks, though.

[01:28:29]

But so Terry said he said I would have smashed their heads and if given the chance, same now.

[01:28:36]

December 8th, David Smith took the stand and he got immunity for his cooperation with the case so he could not be charged for this.

[01:28:43]

I don't think he should have been. I don't think so either. December 16th, there was bad weather, so they had to. So Ian and Myra had to spend the night in cells under the courthouse instead of being transported back to the jail. So they asked. So in the morning, other than that, well, they wanted to, but they're like, you're fucking high if you think you're going to stay together.

[01:29:02]

And then one of the guards got called over by my friend.

[01:29:05]

She was like, can I have some makeup for the morning? What he was like was he was like, no, no, here's a Crayola crayon bitch, do with it what you will.

[01:29:16]

Oh, no, he did not. No, not even you know what he gave her. He said, no, but here's some hot tea. And he had poured salt in it. Oh, my God, that's awesome. I love that. Which is like I want to shake your hand. Yeah. Enjoy. But that's so awesomely just like because she thinks that she's going to get like, here's your slutty bitch and then it has salt in it.

[01:29:34]

That's the piping hot tea bitch. End of March. Myra got to have her fucking hair bleached. They allowed it.

[01:29:41]

Who did they find to do it. No idea. Why did she not burn the shit out of her skull? No, I would have hurt her.

[01:29:48]

So Tuesday, the 19th of April, 1966, that's when their trial began because it was during the committal hearing. Obviously, they were like, yeah, we need to trial.

[01:29:58]

I'm sure that she was allowed to get her hair done. It really bothered me.

[01:30:01]

I was like, wow, that's insane. Why was she allowed to bleach her hair? What judge was like? You know what? Yeah, it doesn't make sense. So the trial judge who was a different judge is Judge Justice Fenton Atkinson. They were charged only with the murder of John Kilbride, Leslie and Tony and Edward Evans because they did not admit to Pauline and Keith until twenty years later.

[01:30:23]

Well, had they found Pauline at that point, did they even know if they didn't find Pauline for 20 more years?

[01:30:28]

And Keith, they have never found. Right.

[01:30:30]

So at this point, Pauline's family had no idea that she was involved in this them. So Maureen got on the stand during the trial and Maureen testified, this is the thing at first. You're like, yeah, Maureen. And then she just goes to show, what did she do? Maureen testified against her sister at trial and said she she said she's pretending she wasn't familiar with certain places like the market where they got John Kilbride. Yeah. She had said on the stand, Myra, that she had never been to that market before.

[01:30:57]

Her sister said, oh, no, she was very familiar with that murder. Yeah, sure, that's a lie.

[01:31:02]

And she said they had also discussed Leslie's disappearance one day together because it was in the newspaper.

[01:31:08]

Right. And Maureen had mentioned how her mother must be such a wreck. And she said Myra left.

[01:31:15]

And she was like and it bothered me ever since. Yeah, she also said Meira hated children and babies and was just like even by her own baby. And she was like, and that's just the way it is.

[01:31:25]

Mira was pissed about this, sent a letter to their mother being like, can you believe her? Her mother was like a total enabler, too.

[01:31:32]

I was going to say is, well, I would be like, I'm not writing to you anymore. I feel like your real gross.

[01:31:35]

See you later. David and Maureen did admit on the stand that they were getting money from a newspaper deal about this case.

[01:31:43]

So that didn't help people thinking they were being shady because once money becomes involved, they're like, well, whose side are you on now?

[01:31:50]

Right.

[01:31:51]

But because now you have a horse, now you know you have a horse in the race. So. Well, the John Kilbride case was being tried because they went like they did the Edward Evans than John Kilbride.

[01:32:01]

And then Leslie, I'm glad that they all had separate trials. Yes.

[01:32:03]

So, well, John Kilbride case was being tried in a mirror, were passing notes to each other and giggling with each other the entire time.

[01:32:11]

And why was that not stopped? Not real. Sure. Ian took the stand and said the same thing about Leslie with David and the other, because this was after the John Kilbride one.

[01:32:21]

Yeah, he said the same thing about Leslie with David Smith and the other man. He said, I didn't kill her. She left my house. That's what he said on the stand. But he fucked up. What did he say twice? What did he say? He said he put and this is awful. He put a handkerchief in her mouth in a scarf to cover her face like half her face.

[01:32:40]

And then he said the words just before the end. And the judge was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. The end of was right, and he was like, and it's not like Ian was like, oh, the end of the photo session or something. He literally was like the life. And then he said, maybe when I was opening the tripod and he was like, that's not the end of anything like that. Why did you say the end?

[01:33:05]

And he was like, I don't know. And then he was just allowed to keep going. OK, so that was the first thing that they were like, oh, OK.

[01:33:12]

And then he said the phrase, after completion, we all got dressed and went downstairs.

[01:33:20]

So and there was the completion of what, like you raped her is what you're saying. And then he denied he even said that in one jury member because he denied it. Then his attorney denied it.

[01:33:33]

And one juror stood up and was like, no, he said it.

[01:33:37]

I was here like we were here. So he knew he fucked that up.

[01:33:42]

So that there tells you right there that he was like, you're damn well about Meira on the stand.

[01:33:48]

When I ask him about her, he said he I mean, I was such a fucking idiot because this dude is such a dick. He said, quote, She was my typist in the office. I dictated to her in my office.

[01:34:00]

This tended to wrap over, I guess, once. And it's like, what the fuck look like?

[01:34:06]

He's acting like he's like, I'm going to save you. And then on the stand, he's like, I don't give a fuck. He's like, you just did what I am like. I just dictated that tramp. So Meira took the stand next and Meira showed no genuine remorse during this trial.

[01:34:19]

She tried, but it did not come out. But she's a sociopath, so she can in fact, she stuck her tongue out at someone at one point on the stand, you're shitting me.

[01:34:26]

And Ian smiled many times at the judge, like the judge would look over at him in the box and he'd just like, give them a big cheesy smile.

[01:34:34]

Oh, my God. And then Meira on the stand and she contradicts this about a hundred different times. She said, quote, I made my own decisions and never made me do anything I did not want to do.

[01:34:44]

Oh, she literally says, you fucked yourself by saying that, sister. So then after she claimed when they asked her about the Edward Evans murder, she claimed that she was in the kitchen when it all happened. She heard his screams and she threw her hands over her ears and was like, horrified.

[01:35:01]

Oh, I'm so sorry.

[01:35:02]

No, she now she first said that that she was in the kitchen and Ian agreed because Ian is the whole plan here is that Ian knows he's fucked. Ian knows that he's going away forever. He's never getting out. He's fine.

[01:35:15]

Yeah, but he said I knew Myra could get out if we played our cards right. And he wanted to do that. And his whole thing wasn't even for her. He wanted her to tell the story.

[01:35:26]

He wanted his story, his horror story to be told, like he wanted to become the boss. So it literally had nothing to do with her at all. No, I love.

[01:35:34]

And so he was trying to get her off. So he was making sure that he was agreeing with things like, yep, she was in the kitchen. Later, he says, no, she was in the living room. Right.

[01:35:42]

They discovered arterial blood spatter on her shoes anywhere in the kitchen. It wasn't like any kind of other blood spatter. And you only get that when you're near an actual pumping artery that's flying out blood.

[01:35:55]

And she tried to say that those shoes were just left in the room, but there was no blood inside the shoes. So feet were in the shoes when that happened.

[01:36:04]

So good try, honey. But so she said she put her hands over her ears and couldn't listen to it. It was so horrifying. The attorney general said this court has heard more than one scream in the room where you were, and she said yes. And then the attorney general said the screams of a little girl of 10 of your sex, madam, did you put your hands over your ears when you heard the screams of the Leslie and Downey?

[01:36:26]

And she said no.

[01:36:29]

Are you kidding, because they were like, OK, so you're this delicate flower who put their hands over their ears because you heard this like 17 year old screaming in the other room, but not when you were your little girl while she was screaming and you were shoving a handkerchief in her mouth and telling her you were going to smack her.

[01:36:45]

That makes sense to you. I was like, yes.

[01:36:48]

She was like, yeah, you're right. Cool. And then, you know, I was just I wasn't there.

[01:36:53]

And then she she immediately said she feels shame all that. And they responded to her. Your shame is a counterfeit shame, essentially.

[01:37:01]

Yeah, I left. I love that. Like you're fake aspect letter. That's exactly what translates literally use a fake asshole. So on May 6th, Ian was found guilty of all three murders and Meira was guilty of the murders of Leslie Andoni and Edward Evans and guilty of harboring Ian Brady knowing that he had killed John Kilbride.

[01:37:23]

OK, so she goes by that because they just couldn't connect her to actually murdering John Kilbride, but they could to the other two, they were both sentenced to life in prison because four weeks before they were arrested, the death penalty in the UK was abolished four weeks before.

[01:37:39]

Well, you know what, though? I'm glad that they had to live.

[01:37:42]

It's true. I know. But it's like if any two people deserve to hang for their crimes, it's these two.

[01:37:47]

It is. Absolutely. And the families deserve to be able to have that.

[01:37:51]

Well, Myra was later described during the trial as, quote, a quiet, controlled and passive witness who lied remorselessly.

[01:37:59]

That's how they described her. In 1994, Arthur Benfield, the retired police superintendent, said, quote, She should have hanged. She was pure evil.

[01:38:08]

It might be fair for her to rot in prison. Yeah. So all these inspectors see her for what she is like. Don't all these trained people exactly like don't even think about it?

[01:38:18]

So Ian went to Durham Prison and Myra went to Hollaway prison. They went to separate prisons. Yeah. Seeing each other after they were sentenced was the last time they saw each other again.

[01:38:29]

Bye bye. Myra was immediately attacked in prison.

[01:38:33]

Was she because they put her into like this like solitary at first because they knew that it was going to be bad, too.

[01:38:39]

But when she was released into general population, ten inmates invited her to a card game. Oh, my God. And she was like, cool.

[01:38:46]

And then they just beat the shit out of her incredible child. Murderers don't do well in prison. Lowell, what happened to Ian?

[01:38:53]

Yeah, so she so she then asked for solitary and they were like, no. And they were also like, you're going to be in here for a long time. You can't be in solitary for that long. Right. But they did assign a guard to walk around with her.

[01:39:05]

She couldn't go anywhere without a guard next door because people tried to kill her.

[01:39:08]

So she did lodge an appeal saying that it fucked up her chances of a fair trial to be tried next to Ian.

[01:39:16]

Aha. So she's already turning to be like he's fucked up, but you chose to be with him for your life, so you probably should have thought about that.

[01:39:23]

Well, they were also like, no, honey, you are exactly who you were during trial. Right. And in fact, you told us on the stand that he never made you controlling. And they also said and Ian actually tried his damndest to make sure that you weren't implicated in anything, so.

[01:39:39]

Right. Fuck right off. So the question mark. Question mark, thank you for trying. Come again, but don't. Well, she also got a special privilege, which pisses me off and it pisses everybody off to want. She got her gran, like her gran was able to visit her because she was dying. Oh, grandma. But honestly, I think she should have had to miss out on seeing her gran ever again.

[01:40:01]

Yeah, you shouldn't. No one gives a shit. Maybe you just felt like Gran wanted to see her, so that's why they did it.

[01:40:07]

I'd be like, no, it's not good for you to see her. No, I know absolutely not. Gren, look at what she did in your house. Yeah, it's no. So Ian spent 19 years in prison where he was beaten by inmates and had to be put in solitary for the remainder and escorted by a guard as well. Then he was eventually, after the nineteen years, transferred to Ashworth's high security psychiatric hospital.

[01:40:30]

This was in nineteen eighty five and he stayed there until he died.

[01:40:33]

Why did he get moved to a psychiatric hospital? Because he had lots of psychiatric problems. Oh for that. Yeah. For the first three years that they talked through letters because they corresponded weekly. I thought that wasn't a lie. No, totally was. They did break up a couple of times through prison.

[01:40:52]

I like what you're broken up because you can't beat each other like that's stupid. Well, they also a petition to get married because married prisoners, one get to see each other. And they had petitioned earlier even before they were sentenced to prison, because if you're married to each other, you are not forced to go on the stand and testify against your spouse. Huh. So that was denied, though.

[01:41:15]

Yeah. But they're like, no, no, no, this is not a holy.

[01:41:18]

Now, I'm going to end this part with this really crazy thing that they did. They used to write secret codes in their letters because they never do anything, you know, normal.

[01:41:30]

So they had something called a six, seven, eight code, OK?

[01:41:34]

And if one of them underlined the date on the letter, it meant that there was a secret code in this letter.

[01:41:40]

How did they, like, even figure out what that meant between the two? I have no idea. So the secret text would start on the sixth line. That's the sixth.

[01:41:49]

The seventh and eighth words would be the first two words of the message, OK. Then the seventh and eighth words on each remaining line would be the rest of the message.

[01:41:58]

You have to give it to them like they were. Oh, they start. They really were.

[01:42:02]

I mean, I'm sure even came up with this one, by the way, later when they broke up like for good and they started really going at each other, which we're going to talk about in part four, because it's a lot of fun.

[01:42:13]

I can't wait. They started really coming at each other.

[01:42:16]

Ian was like, well, I'm just going to reveal all the things in the secret codes that in the secret letters that we wrote because she's a fucked up individual. And I can make sure that you don't give her while because she wrote me some fucked up shit and she freaked out when she heard this and tried to do damage control ahead of time because she knew what was in the letters. What did she try to how does she going to get rid of that?

[01:42:37]

So she said, oh, well, just so you know, if he ever releases this, he did like to have me sometimes write him like things that would arouse him sexually. And it was usually stuff about, like hurting kids.

[01:42:51]

Aha, so she used to write fondly and like in sexually explicit ways about harming children and now she's like, oh, he just wanted me to do that. Please don't think that it's me who's doing that. And it's like, oh, bitch, you just showed all your cards right? Because also when she did that, Ian was like, bitch, I wasn't going to reveal it. Right. Like, he just did it because she knew, like, she's going to do it herself.

[01:43:15]

It's like he's manipulating her from his from behind psychiatric hospital. So I'm just going to read you one letter that they wrote to each other that has a secret code in it in the secret code was written by Mira.

[01:43:30]

OK, so this is what the letter says. I'll tell you the letter and I'm going to read you the code.

[01:43:35]

OK, I've been thinking for a while, why don't you ask if you can go to the church on Sundays so you can at least see each other there. You get someone to help with this, see the governor if necessary. There are places in the chapel for people in your situation. Ian, go. So ask someone to look into it for you.

[01:43:51]

Now, this is when they were being held in jails and they were in the same jail like before the trial.

[01:43:56]

OK, there's someone here who goes with two officers. She's in here for killing her own children and also for attempting to throw acid in her boyfriend's face.

[01:44:04]

She's just crying. No one likes her. She's on rule 43. Of course, your mention of facial expressions in your last letter, I could have seen the one on Brett. His face was a picture when you stared him out. So now I'm going to read you the the code. Yeah. Why don't you get someone to throw acid on Brett? Brett was Leslie's four year old brother. Oh, my God.

[01:44:28]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Yep. She was requesting that he had one of his criminal people out on the outside throw acid on Leslie and Downie's four year old brother. I got to go. Are we done? And that's the end of part three FOX and part four is going to be the discovery of Pauline Reed's grave, which was a long time coming. We're going to talk more about and West.

[01:44:57]

We're going to talk more about David Smith.

[01:44:59]

We'll talk about Æon and meyerrose correspondence and how it became, oh, so sour later.

[01:45:05]

I can't wait to hear them turn on each other because. Oh, yeah, we're going to talk about their health failures and how they both died because it's to their livers, just like all out of their asshole. No, so much. It's Sheff's kiss, especially especially IANS, because he wasn't allowed to die. And it's like my favorite thing ever. He wanted to die so badly and they wouldn't let him.

[01:45:26]

It's a mistake. That's actually it's great to see. Trust me, there's some good stuff coming after that. I'm excited to see the picture of them and look. Yes. And we'll post that on and we'll definitely post that.

[01:45:36]

But I know this one was it was tough. Yeah, it was. But we're through the toughest everybody now. We're at the part where we can all, like, skip along to the. Yeah, to the beat. Now we're going to be like the bonus information that I just feel like it's it's information that's important to this case because it's a really unique case and it's a unique relationship. They had it's a while. It's a unique situation all around.

[01:46:00]

So I think it's important to talk about that. And her bids for parole. Yeah. How it was stopped by the families, how the families banded together.

[01:46:07]

It's just it's all going to come in part four and part four will be on Wednesday, I promise, by the end of the day, by the end of the day on Wednesday.

[01:46:16]

So hopefully everybody can take a deep breath and go ahead and follow us on Instagram at Morbid Podcast. Hit us up on Twitter at a morbid podcast.

[01:46:27]

Send us a Gmail morbid podcast at Gmail dot com and make sure to buy our new merch at ShopTalk morbid podcast, Dotcom Yipee!

[01:46:36]

We hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it here. But it's so weird that you're just pirating it because I got to go mirit my.