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This is exactly right. Hello and welcome to my favorite murder, that's Georgia Hard Starts, Karen Kilgariff, this is a podcast. Welcome.
You know that because you press that little purple icon on your phone and you're listening to podcasts. So this is not a TV show. Don't Wait for the Visual isn't an audio book. We're not going to read you a story.
No, this is this is not this is nonfiction. Right? Nonfiction is true. Yes. It's also confusing. I remember being taught that in like fifth grade and being like, who's in charge? That this is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. Excuse me. How hard are you trying to make the English language as this is that thing? We're like, guys, I play the guitar, won't just show you how to make a chord with your hand.
You need to talk about, like, all the different whatever words. It's like you could just nonfictional is not true. That was the this is under the category of when am I ever going to need math in my adult life. Yeah. And it all goes it all goes in there. That's crazy. Let us reconfigure the education system. We are just here for this distinctly. Remember being around 10 and being like, I will now say how we're going to refer to books that are true or not true.
Yes, not true as nonfiction. True is fiction. And this is how I needed to go.
Man, I fucking missed the day where they taught yours your your you are that one.
Yeah. That's one of those. And just wasn't in elementary school and just never figured it out until high school because I just miss that fucking day of class. Yeah. That's that same thing happened to me with Long Division which kicked off my math anxiety that became such a bad thing for me. I flunked algebra third quarter of high school and then had to go to a hypnotist to try to relieve my math anxiety. Wow.
That's a guy who ordered that Kilgariff is all about it. She says she got in there and I was like, you know, Pat and I know that this is not I can have math anxiety for the rest of my life, and that's never truly going to impact me. Well, at least the nuns didn't just smack it out of you.
Like, I was like, let me do something that might actually work. Let me step in and make up some dumb bullshit.
You know what I think works? Acupuncture, which it actually does. That does work. Yeah, that's ancient. It's ancient. It I love those ancient ones. Words like who who hear our country has been around for what is it, one hundred and fifty years. Who here is arguing ancient five thousand year old medical knowledge.
How dare you're smarter than 5000 years old. Don't think so. To know what I'm going to do when this pandemic is over, first thing I want to get to shit and want to let you.
What would you guess?
What would you go to go to the Edendale Bar and Grill? Actually, that's the first one. That's number one. That's what you said.
The first thing. Are you really going to do ayahuasca, do an internal reset? Do you think I'm going to do ayahuasca and OK, this is a great Segway into the podcast that you have fucking set me down a rabbit hole on. Oh, my God, Steve, write down the date and time and date because Georgia has taken one of my recommendations right. Right to heart immediately. This podcast called This is actually happening. You text me yesterday about it and I've listened to three episodes already.
And last night I was listening to an episode. It's basically people's true stories of just bananas, things that's happened to them in their lives and usually extremely negative.
Right, because that's the most satisfying story to hear. So it's like I won the lottery and then life and how their lives. I mean, it's beautiful and it's crowded. There's no narrator. It's just the person telling their story in the most beautiful way. And so the one I listen to is called What If You Enter the Void? And it's just incredible. I mean, it's I've never heard depression explained so beautifully and succinctly.
And he goes and does ayahuasca after a lifetime of depression. And I haven't gotten to the end yet, so I don't know if it works or not, but I just feel like it must. So I'm just going to do it.
Yeah, I told him I'd do ayahuasca. That's amazing. Well, wait, that's so that's split up. That's two conversation. So let's pause on the pause on all else, because I definitely want to come back to that. But my the first one. So I, I asked Jay actually to help me find this because I'm off Twitter, but then also I'm the last conversation. Put a pin in that one. OK, that's right. This is going to go back Steven, start making a homeland red thread map for this conversation.
But oh so I tried to ask because somebody actually this was off of the radio rental recommendation of the last podcast I recommended. I believe it was the most recent somebody wrote in and said, if you like, that you're going to love this is actually happening. And I really want to give you credit, if you would write back in, if you'd email, and that would actually help.
And don't lie and don't try and. We can just look at Steel Valley. Yeah, exactly. Oh, so the first one I listen to because I really think the idea that people and I wouldn't say that every person telling their story in this is a quote unquote victim in some way. But there are people who have these experiences that when you hear about them, it's so extreme. It's so bizarre. There's there's a guy who talks about how he was homeless.
Him and his father were homeless and he was also trans. And then he gets put into a shelter because he was still under age when this was happening. And then someone at the shelter whose name I want puts him in touch with people who live up in the Bay Area, who are also trans people. And it's like, you're welcome to come and meet with us for super cheap. And then those people turn out to be live. It's what if you get pulled into an alternate reality or something like that?
And it's one of the most upsetting. But but the but the narrator is so incredibly strong and of his own mind, the entire story where he's basically going, I just was agreeing to get so I could get out of the house. I just kept going with it.
And they were literally like, everything is the government is watching you and you're being manipulated and you have to do what we say. And all this stuff that, like I feel like a less strong person would have been so vulnerable to this concept of two people doing it to him, pointing out all this stuff in like that's how, you know, you're not safe and all this stuff. And he he just, like, got super cheap rent in the city while he tried to get his degree.
It's an incredible story that he got himself out of nowhere where I saw this.
But someone we posted. Oh, we I shouldn't be reading comments. This is part of the social media thing. But someone commented and one of the episodes that we posted recently that went live, she said, I didn't realize that the cheap rent I got from this when I was in inculpate, I didn't realize that the cheap rent I got when I lived in this random place was because I moved into a cult until Karen covered the cult at a live show and I was sitting in the audience.
She also needs to write to us just like I was sitting in the audience and realized that I used to live in like a cult compound because the rent was cheap and I didn't know, my God. Oh, my God. Wait, is that the way the girls. The baby? Yes. I was going to say it was the yellow yellow deli or something like that.
I think it's that. Yeah, it's a study and empathy. This this show, there's one that I just listen to that's a kind of a newer one that I text you. Holy shit. But what if someone you love committed a monstrous crime if you listen to that one. No. Oh, my God.
Oh, my God. I will for sure. Unbelievable. I just can't wait to, like, fucking listen to all of them.
It's like there's so many good ones. But the the one the first one I sent you is called what if it happened in broad daylight about a woman who was attacked and at the bank.
And it's the craziest creepy story. But the way she talks about how she doesn't like being treated as the as the quote unquote victim of this crime is was was really eye opening and really important to hear. That's why I always love first hand account of the person that actually went through it, because they get to dictate how, you know what I mean. Like she is talking about when it first happened. You know, she's they bring her into the back.
Her neck gets sliced with a knife. Yeah. And and everyone around her is freaking out. And she's like, it must have been like the adrenaline or being in shock. But she didn't think anything bad happened. Right. Right. She just knew it was kind of weird. And she got moved away. And it wasn't until she saw the videotape played back for her by the cops that she goes, I felt so bad for that girl on the tape.
It was completely like it wasn't it didn't happen to her.
It's a it's a lesson of like how PTSD and how adrenaline works and how, you know, what your brain does in a panic situation and how people react to trauma or tragedy or violent situations that are not the ones it happened to, but the ones that were there.
It's almost like the witnesses it her version of the story I shouldn't get.
None of this is like a you know, the I'm saying it as a fact.
It's it was fascinating to hear someone's take on what that was like to be the the the subject of it when that is not how she felt. And she it would really bug her the way she was treated as this person that it happened to, and that because the person who perpetrated the crime, they believed she had the person had schizophrenia so she couldn't get answers. She was like, I just wanted to know what I did. There is no answer.
There's there's no good explanation as to why that happened. It's right, I mean, yeah, it's just it's an incredible show. You guys should listen to it.
And it's a great thing to be able to hear people discuss their like you say, it's like it people getting to discuss the like, say, most painful or most difficult or worst thing that's happened to them being able to tell you they're a complete person. Their whole only didn't get they didn't get smashed apart by it. They're completely they're saying and this is what I learned. There's one woman who talks about some, OK, it was her mom joined a cult and she kept saying, I want to I don't want to judge it.
I want to understand it. I want to know because I know I didn't have the life she had or the experience she had, which made me go like, whoa, like I take so much comfort in judging other people's actions. It makes me feel more grounded to judge. Right. When actually you never know the full story. And it's it's like a weird for what you would do in their situation. You can you know, we can fuck and talk about what we would do in someone else's shoes till the fucking cows come home.
But until you're really there, you have no idea because there's so many other things at play, including your fucking, you know, fight flight or fight mode, which actually pertains to this because and almost brings.
Would you find a Segway in a weird thing? Yes. In a weird fucking circular thing. So we you and I together at the same time took social media off of our phones because we you're going to say we took some drug together. Like what? I didn't tell you. I put ketamine in your coffee. We took social media off our phones together because we both realized it was affecting us in a very negative way.
And so I was talking to my therapist unrelated about fight, flight or freeze, freeze.
And so I was looking up the you know what?
Who am I? What do I do? And actually in it said in the context of the freeze part, which I think I do, is mindless scrolling to get yourself. You just can't move forward. And so you find something that's comforting, like taking a nap or scrolling. And so I think maybe we're so panicked and have so much anxiety about the world, what's going on today?
Our fucking business life right now is, you know, for the past four years has been bananas.
And so this mindless scrolling, this commenting, this getting reading comments and all of that is a really great way to avoid that. You know, avoid that the stress that's actually happening that we just can't deal with right now.
Well, it's almost like you get to pick your own stress. So it's a control issue because it's it's like saying, oh, this is what I'm upset about.
I cannot handle stress. Yeah. Yep. I can be mad at this person. I blame the problem. Yeah. Yeah, totally.
Also, that reminds me because there's a similar thing I was saying. It was someone we know made a joke about me being a perfect a perfectionist. And so I actually looked up, what, because I was like, I am not nowhere near being perfect. And then I looked it up and I have it so fucking bad. I don't like what because I always picture like a perfectionist is like Reese Witherspoon.
Yeah. Flick. Right, right. And that's not it at all.
It's just it's a trying that makes it happen. It's the it's it's unrealistic expectations and goals. And then the procrastination part is the sidelining yourself when you lose all faith. And then it's like it's really fascinating. It's it's it's so good. I was going to send you it was I found an article in Psychology Today about it that had this really good illustration where it was like a person here. The goal set is a is a road that goes straight and then it's like finish line straight up.
And there's someone on the side of the road looking at their phone on one side and on the other side of the road. Cutting the grass was like perfectly true. Like I'm a perfectionist. But that's not their goal at all. That makes total sense. There's all these things about it that I just was like, oh, my God, that's that's what it is. And then you just are always ruining your own good time with those kind of like it'll never work.
I'll never make it. I'll never be. So it's like comparing yourself to people all all the shit everyone does.
Well, you know what the fourth F is that my therapist just told me about I had never heard of.
So you have fight flight freeze or fun like Thorning, like telling someone how beautiful they look and being like, oh my God, you're going to make them like you.
That's the way I like you. The Tigers about to attack him. You're like, you look amazing today.
You're such you're the fucking queen of the jungle and wow, you look great. And that's the person's way to, like, make everyone, like, the. So that they don't get attacked? Well, you know, I feel like I do well and also in in the culture I grew up in, that's how you know who to attack, because that's clearly fake and it doesn't really fit.
And it doesn't it's it's disingenuous. It's like it's like somebody going just putting in the vote of I'm scared of you, which is like, great, I'll take care of that. Remember when one of our first which is perfectionistic of me to be I can't accept compliments because I know you're I know you're lying. And in Hollywood, at my old apartment during one of our first fucking couple months and you sat down to like, talk to me about a serious issue.
And I was like, OK, I totally by the way, your hair looks amazing. And you were like, don't talk about my hair. This is serious. Like, you specifically called me out on it. And yeah. So I fucking totally do that. Let me let me diffuse the situation real quick now. You should like me.
Go ahead. Yeah. Just so manipulative. It's so manipulative.
But this was before and look, this was before I understood your background. Where direct like we're going to sit down and face to face discuss a thing is your worst nightmare. And that is like that's all I know of. Like no, no, no, we have to solve this right now. We're going to talk it out. We're going to put it on the table. And like I was setting you up to be panicked. Like that approach was your work.
It's want my diffusion didn't work. Oh, my God. We should, right?
No, because because I was like, please don't refuse. Well, I have to tell you, it's hard enough to be saying, like, what a fucking stupid thing that I bet you if Steven was able to go like, you know, it was about, we'd both start laughing because it's as if he has every argument on fucking on its computer. So many. Oh, Stephen.
How many times he had to step out of the country and not for the early days.
That's what is going to be about.
The first time I was asked to step out of the apartment and walk around George's neighborhood was but I didn't stop recording.
So don't worry what I had Sealaska wait outside. Are you in the ayahuasca category? Are you fine throwing up in front of others? Because that's the something that blows my mind.
I'm a I'm a I'm a lifelong recovering bulimic. I can't fucking do this. Like, I can do it anywhere.
I, I have a yes, I could do it anywhere. I have no fucking issue with it. It's OK. Some of my best friends have seen me vomit. It's like just not a thing like I know by the way I get help for your eating disorders. It's, I'm making a joke of it but it's serious. Yeah. For sure. It's not good. And also it actually can do serious damage, especially to your heart, to your yourself isn't everything.
It's not good. So but I am I'm an amiable, I have an amiable gag reflex. I'm like good at this. It sucks to be really good at something that you just can't actually use, you know. But there's upsides like ayahuasca.
I was being dirty, but I'm sorry, Mark at Steven Mark know that I love it. And taking that like I'm not fucking taking that. It's like what's happened to this show, what's happened to you in nineteen ayahuasca. Oh.
But I think I saw a good special about you using ayahuasca to help treat PTSD for soldiers coming back from war and really having a hard time.
And that really they see a lot of a lot of real change with that.
So I think that could be amazing to I of course, do my research and take it very seriously. But I'm right. And there's one thousand stand up comedians have who have slowly been transitioning into like ayahuasca schamus because they're so into it. Yeah.
So I'm going to me and Marc Maron, maybe we'll just take a fucking trip to the old.
He does. He doesn't know me. So that would be weird.
Well, that's how you get to know people. I can write nothing like vomiting in front of someone to really get to know them. And then you're like, I'm sorry, it's great talking to you, but I can see the devil right now. So I have to deal with that. And I'm going to have with without Vince, because he's not he is not. I I'm more experimental than he is. And I heard that you see a snake like a lot of people see a snake and he's terrified of snakes.
Like to a point that's incredible. Like a snake comes on TV for a second and he loses it.
Oh, they're pretty bad. Yeah. I'm kind of on his side with snakes. I don't disagree with Slimey. Oh, I wanted to talk about. Oh, let's see. I had a thing. Hold on a second.
I mean, how are you doing though, being off social media in general. Do you feel an improvement?
I feel more more focused, yeah. The first couple of days I realized that. Every single thing that happens in my life and around the house and with the cats is me, is my brain goes to I should post that. This will be a good post.
What do I post about this? That's all I think about. Yes. And the mindless scrolling, of course, you know, I'm still kind of doing it on other sites like news sites. But it's it's it's so sad.
Every time I like enter CNN dot com into my phone, I'm just like I just want to know what's going on. But it's like this real kind of rickety granpa version of getting the news. Yeah, it's so hilarious.
It's like it feels like social media and feels like an intricate not that I'm tied up in. That doesn't feel good. I can't, you know, move well and I can't I can't thrive when I'm tied up that way. But at the same time it's it's comforting. And I've known it for so long and it's and it's been there for me in so many ways and is part of my like a self-esteem boost for me that I need. But at this point, I'm also looking for the negative stuff and it affects me in a way that is really negative and it's mind blowing.
How how the positive stuff you use so easily take it for granted when people are telling you beautiful, wonderful things and then the negative stuff can be just passing so you can tell it's just someone trying to get attention and it'll stick in your brain. Right. And that's the part that and it's not like I honestly don't experience that much of that. Yeah. Because I just immediately mute everyone.
I literally if somebody you're better at that than that's the thing I just like about you just disqualified yourself. You disqualified yourself. So you don't get to talk to me if you're going to use that tone are like honey, like anything that starts like that. I'm like, sorry I'm so much older than you go.
Well, there's just no way that I can do the work that I'm I'm doing with my therapist, which is trying to get past old, like bullying and, you know, self-esteem issues. If I keep reading comments, there's no way I can't both work on those issues that I have and let people get to me that way, which, you know, at the same time, it just doesn't work so well. I'm picking my own fucking psyche and working on that instead of social media.
Good, great. That's that's so much better. And then why I have a can of wine at two thirty in the afternoon right now.
So what its pandemic. What are you supposed to do. It's a pandemic. So I mean we're doing this. You have to have some vices. We're doing this experiment of just being a little bit more off the grid in the middle of the most isolated time in our lives, which is very difficult. I mean, my thing is I realize just Twitter is a social thing for me that isn't real. Right. So I keep going to it like, oh, I just want to can and talk to some people.
It's like then text your friends don't like I want to stay in the loop. It is a totally different thing for comedians though. I'm like, you know, I didn't expect it.
But it is the you're so you're so right about the dopamine hit of interaction, which is good and fine if you can keep the brackets around it. But if it then begins to spill in because someone decided to be kind of like, you know, bitchy or critical to you. Yeah. It's like you don't know who that is. The idea that you just immediately take their opinion straight to heart and be like this matters and now I'm going to feel bad about it is like it's a very sped up reaction and we don't know that that's what we're doing, but that's what we're doing.
We're going whoever you are, a random person, you get a say and you get to say, in my life and how I feel about you going to say. And it's like, sorry, let's not do that to ourselves. Let's keep that circle real small of people who get a say.
That's a great idea.
As as my therapist told me, it's like in year one where she goes, how many, like close friends would you say you have? And I'm like, I don't know, thirty.
That's not a thing. That's not true.
And I was just like, oh, you're right for. Oh, yeah, keep it tight.
Well, your sister has agreed. Your sister Laura has agreed to and Stephen does this, too.
When there's a cute thing on Instagram that pertains to us, she's agreed to send it to me. Yeah, I feel like we should give her the my favorite murder Instagram password and just be like post whatever you want anytime. That's it. Well, they're coming to visit, so maybe we'll make an arrangement. Oh, my God. What if you Nora was our social media manager, your thirteen year old niece.
She's so ticktock based, though. That's the only thing she's all about. We need to talk presence. Great. We we need to eat the youth injection. We're we're old people talking to young people. We need to be managed by even younger PE there.
I think there is like a I don't know, tick tock at all. But we've been tagged in a few things where like. The GAO will say stay sexy and don't get murdered. I don't know that they play sang, stay sexy, don't get murdered and then mimic it. I don't know. Is that it? Is that that's a tick tock tick.
I can see Steven 70s. They lip sync. Steven, do you have something to say about tick tock? I'm too old for tick tock. That's how millennial is to the only thing. The only thing I follow on tick tock is the woman who does Couponing Six sold in Nashville and she does cat rescue stuff.
But she also does shows like all the extreme coupons CBS like you save for hundred dollars, like your thing is what's her name. I want to yes. Her name is Laura. That's Lauren to it. But it's just about the all the ways that you can like. And she donates a lot of the stuff that she gets on coupons to shelters like women's shelters and things like that. She's doing great work. It's really fun. OK, it's very satisfying.
OK, I love couponing man.
I love cookbooks that Laura Bell X at Laura X on Tic-Tac and that's Belle PLL X, Laura Bolex.
Beautiful of it. There we are. Here we are. We got our Tic-Tac in. Yeah. We'll have Nora walk us through it. You Inventure come over and we can sit down and have dinner on the patio and then we'll get will set. Is your dad can we make one of his welldone burgers for us. Yes. Don't tell him I fucking said that.
Well the problem is they're either completely done or you are eating red meat off of the styrofoam white thing. I mean, he's there in the past. He's served burgers that were just like we everyone was pretending to eat them and then had to put them down, was like they were so raw. It's like Topsham episode of Top Chef sanity.
We're going to make something that's not that's like tacos where you just know exactly exactly what the cooking is. But, yeah, we'll get that all figured out. Look, I'm definitely not going to be off social media forever, but I think it's so good at a time like this to to watch yourself and actually just be in the world like I had to. As you know, I dropped my I dropped my phone.
Oh, my God. Listen to this, you guys. It's the most L-A thing I can hear. This is an asshole story, and I apologize. Text me the other morning. Are our assistant so. Well, it was like, hey, I'm sure she told you, but Karen dropped her phone in the pool. So we have to cancel this meeting or whatever. And I was like, she didn't tell me I was the second it happened, I was like, yeah, I don't want to do any calls for, like, days.
I was in my mind, I was like, you just buy yourself a week of freedom. And then I'm like, what am I talking about? Like, I can do everything on my lap, you know, what am I doing? So I left my house and went to the phone place. That's not the phone store or the Apple store because they're all closed to my local phone place. And a woman who worked there, the I guess what it would be, a Sherman Oaks AT&T store.
Cindy, what's up with the greatest? OK, this woman I loved her so much went in it. Of course, there's like dots everywhere where you should stand everything. Now, all those tables in those, like phone stores have the plastic divider on them. I mean, all this stuff. So trippy, dystopian as fuck. Yeah, it's crazy. And we're both wearing masks. And so she's I'm like, I just need to replace this phone.
What's the latest one? I'll have the one you're having.
I thank God I have insurance pools, count, whatever. So she's just doing it real fast, not asking me all those extra questions. She just knew we needed to both get out of there quickly. And so then I go over, she goes back to get it. I go over to like, look for what my new phone case will be, because, of course, it's a different size.
I know everything.
And a woman comes in who's wearing a mask but walks straight in and starts telling everybody what to do. And Cindy's like, ma'am, could you please stand over there? You have we have we already have three customers telling them what to do, just like I need to pay my bills, blah, blah, blah.
But but Cindy's like, oh, you need to stand over here because we already have the maximum people in the store.
And this woman, it was like she was waiting for her cue. Oh, it's. Oh, I'm sorry. Did someone in this store die? Is that why you're being this dramatic? And she started going off and I looked I looked at her. I was just like I almost started yelling. I was like, you've got to be kidding me. This is total crap. And Cindy handled it beautifully. She was just like, ma'am, I'm sorry.
I understand your frustration. This is for the safety of others she handled.
Like the woman immediately realized there was going to be no attention got and there's going to be no no one was going to join her in her fight. And she just went and stood. She handled it so perfectly.
So you know how they usually say and I just say, what a pity it is that she because you're an. A mask didn't get the full effect of Karen's fuck you face, but at the same time you were able to fucking give it with just your eyes showing an eyebrow. Those eyebrows are pretty.
The eyebrows, the eyebrows do it. They're plucked specifically for making people freeze in their tracks. But I actually started yelling when she started yelling. I immediately started yelling because that's double. That's what we do. Do. Yeah. Oh, are you yelling? I'm more mad immediately.
Heitman is like, yeah, it's weird, but I'm against her. I'm a. a. heightmap. Yeah. But I realized I was like, do not escalate this. Sydney's got it.
You don't know. Blah blah blah. Whatever. When they said they sent me the thing of will you fill out a survey. And normally I completely ignore those even if I've gotten great service. I filled out that survey and wrote texted a paragraph this long about how well Cindy handled herself and this situation and completely defused it.
And if AT&T is going to have people in stores, they need to pay them more because they're doing more than the average job, because now they have to manage and mitigate people who are anti maskers coming in and screaming at everybody. And that's on them. And and because I had a long conversation with Cindy about it, where I was like, she goes, we would have like a weird thing happen in the store maybe once a while before she goes.
Now it's five times a day.
And because. But antagonises but.
The reason she understood, she goes, it's easy for me to calm them down and to stay neutral because I know your phone is your lifeline. And if you're in a place where the government hasn't sent you a check and you don't have anything, and all of a sudden you can't make your payment and you're getting your phone cut off, then you're cut off. And so this is all the same people in these stores. This is there on the front line of people who are being affected by the mismanagement of this entire situation and had so many.
So I wrote to I wrote to my in my report, in my review, I was like, please pay these people more because they're protecting your brand. So you need to protect them. I mean, she can imagine what it's like right now for it's horrible.
Georgia, 10 years ago, I would have been fucked. There's no moving home because there's no fucking home. There's no not paying rent. You'll get kicked out. You're in your fucking your roommates over. You know, it's like I don't know what I would I don't know what I would do if I were Karen. Karen five years ago would have been literally pack up the dogs and move back to my dad's house because and look, people are doing that and there is no shame in collecting yourself in a situation like this.
This is like unprecedented insanity. If you have to if you're lucky enough to have a family to go home, to just say thank you and do those dishes and feel not one ounce of shame because this is crazy. This is unprecedented. And it's also it's also unmanaged. This is this is beyond. Yeah, but that's Cindi's of the world. Please think when you're out and about and you're going to places that have reopened, please be ultra careful, concerned, polite and defensive of the people who are now also essential workers.
But they're working at, you know, at a phone store. It's like, please, please be protective and careful and know that those people are being deeply affected by the stresses of others and the people who can't manage themselves. And all of a sudden you're like, I'm just here working to sell iPhones and suddenly I have to. I'm a crisis manager.
Cindy was. Anyway, Cindy, props. Props to Cindy. Fuck. All right. Sorry, that was. Should we start talking about the book? God damn it, you haven't even gone to exactly. Write news yet. Oh, my God. Literally, when I sat down, I was like, I have nothing to do.
I actually wrote two things down that I could talk about and we haven't talked about them. I like what you got. What you got? Well, I have the beautiful and amazing actor Dan Levy. He posted this Instagram recently that I saw before I took Instagram off.
We can I'd say. Yeah. Is it about taking that class? Yes. Oh, I loved him so much.
He is there's a there's a free course being offered through the University of Alberta called Indigenous Canada. It's a twelve lesson course that explores indigenous histories and contemporary issues from an indigenous perspective. And he is not only starts this week, it's like twelve courses he'll be doing hosting a weekly discussion with the professors for twelve weeks and they're all going to learn together. I have it pulled up right here. It's it looks awesome. It's I mean, it's so brilliant.
Yeah. I love that Dan Levy is getting involved.
He's incredible because also it's like what are you doing with your time? Like, you know, how many times can I watch the same show that I already like? And when I saw that that was before I left Twitter, I saw that I was like that genius bastard.
He's done it again because it's like learn about something you should know. Right, that very few of our educations provided for us in a meaningful way.
And the other thing was that the Anchorage Daily News, I saw this on Reddit, they on the cover of their newspaper. It's a it's a huge blank newspaper page with a tiny little paragraph at the bottom that says, over the past month, we've presented the stories of women and men choosing to speak out about their experiences with sexual violence in Alaska. Talking about rape and sexual assault is difficult. Many survivors may not be in a position to do so right now.
This space, which is the blank space, is dedicated to those not ready to share. We're leaving this open for you. Oh, my gosh. So you can write.
And you know how important it is to even write a letter that you don't send. They let out the entire front page open for for survivors of sexual assault to write their experience and just keep it beautiful.
I know. Brilliant. Yeah. Who is that? Editor in chief. Hi fi. Anchorage, the Anchorage. What is the newspaper? Daily News. Wow, congratulations. What a beautiful gesture, I know. All right, that was what I had. Oh, and then we have we have we're going to make some face masks, you guys.
We made face masks. You guys, guys, we may face masks. They say stay sexy and don't get though. They just say stay sexy. They stay, stay just stay safe. And then they have the my favorite murder logo on them. So you can everyone you walk by, you're going to be giving them a message if you buy one.
All proceeds are going to go to Feeding America, dawg. That's right. And so Feeding America, their mission statement is Our mission is to feed America's hungry through a nationwide network of member food banks and engage our country in the fight to end hunger. So it's it's pretty cool. It's been around since nineteen seventy nine. We're really into it. So any any facemask you buy from us at my favorite murder. Com in the store, all the proceeds are going to go to them to Feeding America.
Right. Which is super important right now as we were just talking about, this is very intense, very difficult time for so many people. And this is just one way we all have like, you know, I have about four different masks. One was one my sister bought for me, one I got a package of like the disposable ones. But so, you know, you can have one for your car and have one for your house answering the front door, whatever.
Our house is littered with masks, really ridiculous things.
Keeps buying like different.
You know, he wants to support the businesses he likes. So he keeps buying Macs from different places. And then we have the big thing of the disposable ones. And it's just we love it and love it. The coolest. Yeah. So get in there and so you can protect yourself and support a very good cause and help help out hungry people in America. And then real quick to want to do exactly right corner. Yes. Like this week.
So Monday Murder Squad covered the case of the Taco Bell Strangler, whose name to Henry Louis Wallace. He targeted black women in Charlotte, North Carolina in the nineties, but he's only confessed to the murders that he everyone knew he was tied to. So Bill and Paul explore how many other potential victims he could possibly have.
I've never even that's I've never heard of I've never heard of the strangler on bananas, OK?
When we were told that this was going to be a guest on bananas and you know how good Scotty and Kurt are with Gus, this one tops them all. Erin Brockovich.
Hi. Oh, my God. Legend. Let's all watch that tonight. What? The movie. The movie. Erin Brockovich. Absolutely. Such a good movie, but she's an incredible advocate, so she is on bananas this week. Please tune in.
Yeah. And then the fall line is releasing this week. They release part one of their new two part series called Identity after Death, which sounds so cool. They have a unique lecture in France, forensic anthropologist named Dr. Amy Michael, who's talking about common misconceptions, the state of forensic science, how cold cases might be solved like this is a person who's in it and studying it and on the cutting edge. So I can't wait to listen to that sound so great.
Yeah, cool. Great stuff happening in soccer happening.
Did is that everything. Forty five million. No, sorry.
There is one more thing. So last week because the the TV continent.
This TV show. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah.
OK, so we talked a little bit about the, the new HBO series Lovecraft Country premiered and we talked about how much we loved it. Oh God. It's so. So and that's Jordan Peele is one of the producers on it. Why am I not surprised that somebody. Yeah. Yeah. So so we got this email and it says, hey crew, I was so excited and moved to tears to hear you both bring up Lovecraft country this week.
I'm one of the set decoration buyers on the show and the entire crew put so much love, sweat and tears into it. And it's just nice to see our hard work being recognized. I, I think my parents sometimes imagine I'm still painting flats for high school play as I was spending hours in my van traveling around Georgia to find period correct pieces.
This isn't the see this.
This is my favorite thing in the world. I can say it.
She goes and I mean it. There's not even a single book on any set that was published after nineteen fifty four buck that damn rad capacity. That's my like that's my. If you weren't doing what you're doing now what would you want to do. That's my dream job. Right.
It's the coolest. And you all were keeping me company. So as she was doing this, doing these buying she was listening to us which is such a great compliment. Every Monday and Thursday, several of us would get distracted. Talking about this week's episode in my office, you could find various DGM. You're in a cult called Your Dad and. Other MFM Mirch, I even have a few people on our crew who remembered the casket with the, quote, suspicious substance formaldehyde that was in a mini so that came out while we were filming.
That was that one was not on our show. I promise to never buy a used casket for work, no matter what the discount is. Anyway, I just wanted to say on behalf of the Lovecraft crew or at the very least the set decoration department, that we are happy to be friends of the family, stay sexy and stay away from racist. And Hogarth's Natasha.
Amazing. Yeah, I love it. I love it. I was so excited. We were so excited. So thank you, Natasha. I'm assuming she pronounces it Natasha, but it's NATO. OSHA, yeah. Natasha Tausche. Yeah. It's a different spelling. Sure. Please say hi to everybody. Yeah. And and way to go.
Yeah. Super. Congratulations to a beautifully beautifully made. You love it but also so fucking creepy like the first when it's all spoilers.
It's ok. Don't don't spoil ok. Yeah. Watch it and watch the other one and we'll talk about it next week. And really quick I just for the comedy side, if you're looking for something to watch, I finally, I had been saving it because when it first came out I didn't watch it. Even though I love Rob Delaney and I love him, I love he's truly the funniest. He's the king of Twitter, but he's also an amazing actor, an amazing comedian.
So kind to fucking I knew him for a little while when he lived here. He remembers my name when he didn't have to, you know what I mean? Like, I was important to your life in any way. But he would be like, Hi, George and Vince. He was just so nice.
Yes, he knows. He knows his stuff. So he made a show with Sharon Horgan. He's an amazing Irish actress and comedian called Catastrophe. So Good. There's, I believe, three seasons of it.
So and it is so fucking funny and so brilliant to people that get together and start a family. And that's all you need to know. The jokes are superb. People are so real. I love it so much. And I it's I always feel bad when I don't watch things the second they come out. But oftentimes I resist because there's always this first wave of like opinion. Yeah. And I want to like, get away from that and then have my own opinion and be somebody else and just watch it and you love it.
I just watched it literally for like seventy two hours. I did not stop watching it because I loved it so much.
You know what that reminds me of? Did you watch the Nexium cult. Yeah. Your memory. Yes. Episode what's called the Vow. The Vow on HBO. And so good. It made me think of this because I thought to myself, it's on HBO. So it's episodic every week. And I am just like I was mad that I couldn't binge watch it. Yes, we can.
We not do that anymore. All I want to do is fucking sit there for a weekend and binge the show. Yes.
I mean, and while you're at it, if I'm bingeing a show, you don't need to put up a thing that asked me if I'm still watching it.
Get stop judging me for laying on the couch for nine hours.
Still that still is in italics. Harrill Karriem And then a little Pigface.
The vow is really good. I am.
The value is great at about it the way it is setting it up for a second. I was kind of like this feels a little bit prone axiom to me what's going on. Yeah but it's like they're establishing, it's good documentary filmmaking.
They're establishing what, what was good about because there's always people got pulled in and you can totally understand.
Yes. The positivity. And it's so I love that it's it's like a learning process where I'm, I was like cinema going, I don't like this. They're basically. And then I went, oh yeah. Yeah, that's the whole idea of a cult, is you don't see a cult and go, this is a bunch of bullshit. You like the girl who was talking about realizing she's in a cult at the show. Of course it's welcoming. It makes you feel good.
It's hitting all of those.
You feel like you have a big deal of this. This which yeah.
Sorry isn't a real life doesn't happen in real life unless you have kids maybe. I think if you have kids and that's that's a cult. Not according to catastrophe.
No, but I mean, it's it's it's such a good this is the way we learn about cults so that we can learn to stay away from them or to recognize when something switches from being super helpful and beneficial to literally controlling your life.
Yeah. Yeah. Thank God.
There's a lot of good TV out now in these times already. Are you ready to make some media that are that will also entertain people?
Well we're fording, we're forty nine and fifty something seconds. And so I feel like now is the time. It's time.
Just tell me like a four minute story. Hello, I'm Bridger Weininger, you may know that I host a podcast called I Said No Gifts, and if you don't know that, that's fine. Learning is a lifelong journey. But now that we're all on the same page, I want to invite you to listen to I said no gifts. Every Thursday. I have a guest on the show with one rule, no gifts. And every week my guest flagrantly disrespects my request.
Fortunately, I'm a very gracious host and I never fly into a fit of rage. Rather, we discuss whatever my guest brings me. I've had all kinds of terrific guests, people like Emma Thompson. I have a slight obsession with vacuum cleaners. I have a lot of vacuum cleaners and actually I'm literally looking at one now that vacuums this floor and basically takes if you vacuum yourself with it, it would just take your skin off. Yes. Or Lester, basketball shorts go to Melinda Gates because there's just no world in which basketball shorts have come across her like life in the past twenty five years.
It is impossible. It's impossible. I like, hey, you know, wear these while you're, like, handing out the malaria.
Andy Richter, you at your most relaxed. It's not it's not pretty. Oh, speak for yourself. I just staying gorgeous, right.
Like a reclining alabaster statue. Karen Kilgariff, is that another Patrick Wilson horror movie. Yeah, I think plays like in two different series. Right. He's all over the map of his choices, loves demons. He wants to fight them. He wants to be the father around them.
Father of a demon. Lauren Lapidus. Zachary Tyler.
Yeah. Zachary Ty Bryant. Yeah. Is now the proud owner of a BYU or the entire chain or something.
He started again. OK, well, you can say a lot of things on a podcast. They become true. But he is not the CEO of Buffalo and out and more.
If you want to know what all these wonderful people have given me, you have to listen to I said no gifts. Thursdays on exactly right. Subscribe now on Stitcher, Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to listen. I don't care where you listen. That's none of my business.
I said no girls, Shubra. Stephen, his first Karen, your first comment, OK, is it me? Oh, because the last week, the quilt episode, right, George I did the dungeon in the Carolina in Charleston.
And Karen, you did the Stull Cemetery on the right.
OK, ok. OK, so Georgia, the story I'm going to do for you this week, read to you is the story of Delaware's Patty Cannon, the wickedest woman in America who don't know it.
OK, this was suggested by Anna H. She sent this suggestion into the MFM Gmail inbox. Thank you, Anna H. I had never heard of her. Of course, what she was she basically ran the reverse underground railroad while she was an escaped slave catcher in the eighteen hundreds. Mm hmm. There's so much of this stuff as I was looking it up and reading it, that of course I've never heard of any of it. Historian as fuck.
They don't they don't teach it in the fuck and they don't teach it and they don't teach a slave patrols, slave traders, all of it. It's it's such an ugly time and it has to be discussed. This should not be the only thing you know about it. So please, this is this is basically an overview. There's plenty to read about this and to look into yourself. OK, so I got this information. There's a Ranko article that was written by a writer named Amanda Sedlack, Hebner and all that's interesting article that was written by Emily Stringer and articles from, of course, Wikipedia, newspapers, Dotcom and The Dover Post.
Just as a quick overview, as most of us know. And the only thing I've ever heard of is that the Underground Railroad itself, the original, which was the secret network of safe houses, hiding places and travel routes that lead escaped slaves out of slave owning states and to free states and up to Canada. So, of course, it is an incredibly secretive system. So there's not much about like when it was established or who did it first or anything like that.
That was all very secret. But what we do know is that it was set up by free men who had been escaped slaves themselves, black and white abolitionists at the time, many of whom were Quakers. The Quaker religion is very active.
They're very active and in helping slaves escape. Also, members of the African Methodist Episcopal Church, which was established in 1816, that they did tons of work on the Underground Railroad. And it basically just provided it was it was very loose. Some of the some of the network, some of the spots in the network knew about each other, but it was very loosely organized. It was like, oh, if you make it to this place, you know.
Exactly. You go to that place. It was the set up.
You know, it's the same thing with like, you know, fucking Jewish people in Germany during World War Two. The more everyone knows about it, the more you can tell the authorities when you get caught. So right there, the more danger. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. To keep it small, you had to keep it very, very secretive, and especially at this period of time, which would be like mid seventeen late, seventeen hundreds into the eighteen hundreds because America was founded and established with slavery simultaneous.
So the slave codes that came to America, they came with the slave owners in America, they were just, it was just kind of they weren't the laws that were enacted. It was kind of like what had been established in either France or Spain or England. And there were there weren't any laws set up in any meaningful way. Essentially across the board, a slave owner was legally allowed to beat, to rape or in some cases to kill his property, quote unquote, these human beings at will.
And so it's so essentially they're human beings that were bought into servitude and then treated so poorly. Obviously, backbreaking work, inhumane living conditions. I mean, so escaping to the northern free states was a obviously huge and they had the slave owners made it a very, very scary thing to try to do. Right. And so many people of whoever tried it and got caught. Exactly. And get these slave patrols, people that would just go out at night hired for money to try to catch people who are trying to escape slavery.
So there's I read this article a couple of months ago and had this quote in it that I remembered. And it was from there's a black composer named George Walker, who was the first black composer to win a Pulitzer for music. He won it in nineteen. Six. Oh, my. Yeah, and he he's he he died in twenty eighteen, but he was the grandson of a slave and when he his grandmother of course never talked about it.
And when he finally had the courage to ask her what was it like, the only thing she said to him was they did everything except eat us.
So OK, so I'm just giving you the overview of the setup. Definitely look into all of that slave patrols, all of that. It's so creepy, horrifying. And it basically was the birth of what is happening in this country right now. In about 1820, there's a woman by the name of Paddy Cannon and she tends bar at her tavern in Johnsen's crossroad, which is in a town in Delaware that's situated right on the Delaware Maryland border. And so it sits right on the Mason-Dixon line.
So slave traders would often stop at Paddy's Tavern as they were traveling to and from the slave states in the Friede States. Yeah. So tonight, Paddy waits on a slave trader who makes the terrible mistake of flashing a huge wad of cash that he has. And so she invites him to have dinner in her nearby home. And he says, yes, they have dinner with her son in law, Joe Johnson and Joe's brother, Ebeneezer.
If you. Yeah, if you just want to creepy the white guy named Webb. What's up, EBR?
Ebeneezer So the slave traders seated at the dining room table and petty excuses herself to go outside to throw her flowers. She says that's the excuse uses. And from the garden, which sits right below the dining room window, Patty has a clear sight of the slave traders back, pulls out a gun, shoots him from behind and kills him, takes his money, obviously. Then Patty Joe at Ebenezer pack his body into pieces, wrap him in the bloody tablecloth, stuff him into a blue chest three feet wide and bury him out behind her house.
And this is standard fare for Patty Cannon. This is this is life at her tavern. So she was born Martha. Patricia Hanley there. There's some people say her first name was Lucretia, but they think that that's just a rumor that stemmed from Lucretia Borgia, who is the Italian noble woman who was famous for poisoning people. Yeah. So they think that just that just kind of got tacked on to her. But records of her early life aren't exact.
She was believed to be born in seventeen sixty in Montreal. Her father was a British nobleman, turned bad boy who defied his parents and married a barmaid. So her father's parents disowned him and they they fled to Montreal. They have Patty and three other daughters. And so Patty's father supports the family by smuggling and other crimes. So she's basically born into a life of crime. It's very common for her. Basically, her father gets into a fight with someone who threatens to turn him into the local police so he kills the snitch with an axe.
He's caught in the act. He's arrested and he's hanged for murder. So Patty's mom is left to support the family on her own. So she forces Patty and her sister into sex work as well, and then she tries to marry her daughter's off so she doesn't have to take care of them anymore. So around 1776, when she's 16 years old, Patty marries a man named Jesse Cannon visiting Montreal from Delaware, where he is a farmer. So she ends up she marries him and moves back to Delaware with him and they move to a town called Johnsen's Crossroads, which is now resilience Delaware, which is right on the Delaware Maryland border.
So Johnson's crossroads sits in the Delmarva Peninsula. So that's right along the border. There are three separate counties, Caroline, Dorchester and Sussex, and they all meet together right in this one spot. So Patty and Jesse have two kids, Jesse Jr. and a girl named Mary. So she works as a barmaid while Jesse farms. And eventually she wants more money. So she tries to add sex work back into her rotation. But she even like her idea she'll start to be a sex worker again and then eventually become a madam and run her own brothel.
But she's such an unpleasant person.
She has such a shit personality that most of her potential johns find her attitude off-putting.
The later days they're like, Could you lower your voice so the brothel idea never pans out because she just isn't very nice.
This was the. Description of Patty Cannon from the Dover Post, quote, Descriptions of Cannon all written many years after her death Painter is a rather fearsome person. She was, quote, massive of bosom, massive elsewhere, according to a 1987 newspaper article, and Amazonian Paul Bunyan, who personally hog tied some of her kidnap victims. She was and then it says she was more or less robust, had a wealth of black hair and her face, while showing the effects of her evil passions, anticipations was more or less good to look upon.
She was a hottie, but her attitude was so sorry. No sex work for you.
Instead, she leans on her bartending skills and opens a tavern around 1784 when she's twenty four years old in her own tavern so that she basically, instead of the brothel, she just has like middle age back then, like she was she was scheduled to die within 10 years. So soon after she opens this tavern, her husband, Jesse Cannan senior, dies under mysterious circumstances. So Patty's left to fend for herself and her kids. So sometime in the early eighteen hundreds, her daughter, Mary Cannon, marries a man named Henry Brereton.
Henry is a blacksmith, but he's gotten into the illegal slave trading game. So what happened was basically in they pass a law in seven, which came into effect on January 1st of 1888. That was the act prohibiting importation of slaves. So essentially, they made it illegal to import any more slaves into America and it's supposed to limit the slave population and end international slave trading. But what happens is because slavery is still legal in the United States, it then leads to a rise in the underground slave trade, illegal slave trading market, and that they call that the reversed underground railroad.
So basically now plantation owners are willing to pay more for slaves. So making basically that if slaves ran away, it was you couldn't just go buy more rights. So they would pay people to go find them, bring them back or just buy an illegally.
Yeah, it's such a sensitive thing to talk about. We're talking about people. It's so crazy. So what ends up happening is with the illegal slave trade, these illegal slave traders go to free states and kidnap free black people off of the street, lock them, whether they are slaves, whether they were born free and those free states, whatever, they're kidnapping and getting them to boats and shipping them back down to the slave states on super dark.
Really creepy. So essentially in 1811, Henry teams up with the cannons to kidnap free black people and sell them back into the slave trade. So Henry Pattee and other accomplices, they would like get get other people to help them out. They joined Joseph Griffeth and develop a system so the guys find accomplices, they troll. The waterfront's in a ferry looking for free. Black men, women and especially children do them. And then they kidnap them through force or through trickery.
Oftentimes, they would promise them to work, basically kidnap them and hide them. Patty had built in the attic of her tavern. She built this horrible jail so she could keep people there. She she abused them. She tortured them. They were horrible conditions. And essentially they would while they would stay up there while she was making arrangements with these slave traders. So she was making money. They would make the exchange and then send the victims back down south.
So one way they would do this when they would end up tricking black people is Patte owned a slave herself. It was just a boy named Cyrus James. She bought him when he was seven years old. So she would make and her gang would force Cyrus to trick people into boarding their ferry by saying, oh, are you looking for work here? Come with me. I'm going to take you to a place. So, of course, they would trust a child, a black child when they weren't kidnapping free black people.
Patty and her gang are also making counterfeit money and they're also robbing the tavern patrons, the rich tavern patrons. So they were just they were just basically or an organized crime syndicate all at this tavern. So in 1811, Henry gets caught during an attempted capture in Georgetown, Delaware. He's given a prison sentence for his crimes, but within a year, he escapes. He gets back to Paddy's Tavern and there he, Paddy and Joe, Joseph Griffith pick up.
Right back where they left off and then one day in the spring of 1813, they devise a plan to rob a slave trader who frequents the tavern named Ridgell. They get him drunk. And then as he's leaving for the night, they ambush his carriage and they rob him. But he fights back. And in the midst of that fight, Ridgell gets shot and killed. So Henry and Joseph are captured and found guilty of murder and they're sentenced to death.
And at noon on April 13th, 1813, they're both hanged. So so now Pattiz in charge. And it does not slow her down one bit because right after the new widow, Mary, her daughter Mary immediately marries another illegal slave trader named Joe Johnson. Joe partners up with Patty to continue this same slave trading enterprise that she had built with Henry. And Joe's an even better partner. They recruit as many as 50 to 60 other people to help them, and they become known in the area as the Cannon Johnson gang.
And we will never know the exact numbers because there was a book written after her death that they think she had a hand in writing. So they're not sure if the numbers are correct because but they they think she killed around 30 people and sold thousands of black people back into slavery or into slavery for the first time, men, women and children. It's really sad there, these stories, because this became so common. There were posters on the streets of Boston warning black people to be careful, not to talk to police, not to not to interact with police and not to not to believe anyone offering them a job off the street, which like you'll get in trouble for immediately if you don't talk to police and don't interact with police if they interact with you.
It's almost just like it's that steer clear thing. It reminds me of that that that scene in love of country where they're just trying to stop for lunch. Right. And they suddenly realize the cafe they're in isn't the safe place that they got in the book. It's that place has been burned down and they're in a sundown town. Yes. So sorry, spoiler alert.
But it's the same thing where there's just traps everywhere. It's, again, that thing we talk about, about black people culturally have not been safe ever. They just don't they can't. They can't feel safe. Yeah. It's it's not right. So law enforcement, of course, looks the other way. They know what they're doing. But a lot of white people make money off of doing this.
So this illegal the illegal aspect of this slave trading, No one no one's coming out and going, this is wrong. You can't do it at all. Right. But the crimes, the the Canon Johnson gang, they start committing all these crimes against white people. And of course, that's what gets the the authorities attention. So they start hanging out at the tavern paying more attention to what Patty and her people are doing. But she lives so close to the state line that any time she catches when that the cops are going to come and like, take a look around, she just hops the border.
And so she's she's out of the area and they can't do anything about it. In 18 to a few members of the Canon Johnson gang are finally caught, one being Joe Johnson. And he's the only one that's brought to trial for kidnapping because he's he was basically the leader found guilty. And his punishment is to be placed in the stocks and given thirty nine lashes. So he takes his punishment and then him and his brother Ebeneezer take off for the south.
Patty once again, she's dodged a bullet, but that changes in eighteen twenty nine when a tenant farmer working her land stumbles upon something interesting beneath the dirt, a three foot wide blue chest. The farmer opens it. And inside are the remains of the slave trader that Patty killed with Joe and Ebeneezer back in 1820. So there were farmer reports, this finding to the local law enforcement. They go to find Patty, but before they can find her, they they wind up catching Cyrus James in Delaware, who is Patty's young boy slave.
So he's also wanted, for his part, in this illegal slave trading operation, which is, of course, bullshit, because he's a slave. He's being forced to work with them. But the good thing is when the police questioned him, he just spills the beans and tells them everything. He confesses to seeing Patty, Joe and Ebeneezer killed a slave trader and bury him in the blue chest. He tells them about all the horrors he's seen in the tavern, about the attic jail, about how Joe Johnson would whip the black captives, who would say they're free.
They you know, they're not they're not escaped slaves. They were born free. He even says there are at least three other bodies of victims. Patty killed and buried on her land. He leads authorities to the locations and enough. When they dig there, they find three more bodies, a young boy who had been killed on June 1st, 1824, when Petit hit him in the head with a wooden board and two other children who were both killed on April.
Twenty six. Eighteen twenty two. Oh, my God. So with the help of Cyrus James testimony, law enforcement has all they need to arrest Patty. In April of eighteen twenty nine, she's caught and charged with four counts of murder. She's found guilty and sentenced to death by hanging. But on May 11th, 18 29, Pattiz guilty conscience gets the best of her. She calls for a minister and she confesses that she's personally killed 11 people, including her husband Jesse Canne, and she poisoned as well as one of her own babies who she strangled when they were three days old.
So, yeah, she was a fucking monster. Yeah. And I think that's probably where the Lucretia Borgia thing, because she poisoned her her first husband the same afternoon Pattie's found dead in her cell at age 70, she had secretly smuggled arsenic into her cell and used it to poison herself three weeks before her scheduled hanging. So Patty's body is buried outside the Sussex County courthouse in Delaware, but her remains are moved in 1987 when the area is exhumed for the development of a parking lot.
So they end up burying her in a potter's field near a local jail except for the skull. Somebody saw one of the courthouse employees who was there during the exhumation saw Patty's skull that was separated from the rest of her remains and took it and kept it.
Yes, they kept that in their family until nineteen sixty one when someone finally donated it to the Dover library. So that skull has since been donated to the Smithsonian in Washington, D.C. on long term loan. And in 2010, Dr. Douglas Owsley, the chief of the Division of Physical Anthropology at the Smithsonian, announced his plans to conduct a forensic examination of the skull and saying he wished to preserve it as a part of a larger study of life in the Chesapeake from colonial times to the 19th century.
And that is the story of Patty Cannon and the reverse Underground Railroad fact.
That was a whirlwind. I mean, it's not enough. There's no it's you know, we'll talk more about all this stuff. Yeah, but the idea that, you know, this talk about a serial killer, talk about talk about evil, evil, evil person that we should know about.
Yeah, I think, yeah. That whole idea of people who made money by catching escaped slaves, Dr. Mengele, it's fucking it's just people who are who are using the excuse of the times to do their fucking evil bidding and getting away with it. Wow. That's fucking evil. That's evil and horrible.
It's fascinating because this stuff went on for so long. She's not the only it's not like this is a rare, you know, moment in history. This is she's yeah. She's the anti Harriet Tubman. But what's cool is in in reading up on all this stuff, they're the coolest thing about Harriet Tubman that I don't think I understood, because basically the Underground Railroad went until obviously the Civil War, you know, through that. And then Harriet Tubman, the the the union army, hired her to be a spy because she knew all these routes down the secret routes and places down to the south.
And so they basically would use her to go in and she would dress up as an old woman and no one paid attention to her. And then she would go get intel and information to bring back to the generals. That's my favorite. I mean, everything else is incredible and amazing. And her bravery in the fact that she went into slave states upwards of 30 times to to a free escaping slaves, then she she worked for the for the for the Army to during the civil war, bananas.
That was incredible. Great fucking job and weirdly, mine is like my story this week is like and later, 150 years later. Yeah, OK, Dad. OK, I love it. And here's a here's a unsolved murder I hadn't heard about ever that we should know more about and we should know more about the woman. This is the murder of civil rights activist Elberta Jones. Nice. So I got information from this from there's a great New York Times article by Trip Gabriel Black Past Dog Article Face to Face Africa Article Black, then dotcom article by Jones 11, article by Derrick Rose and Lena Duncan, a Washington Post article by Deneen L.
And just yeah, the it's just coming to light about this incredible woman. So Alberta Odell Jones is born on November 12th. Nineteen thirty to Sarah Francis Crawford and Odell Jones, which let's bring back the name Odo.
What does a pretty good name in Louisville, Kentucky. So Alberta attends Louisville Central High School and then Louisville Municipal College, which was a school for black students only. But it emerges at that time with the University of Louisville during desegregation. So she graduates and this is a black woman in the nineteen fifties. She graduates third in her class and gets her bachelor's degree from the University of Louisville, also at the top of her class. Basically, she's really smart, really driven.
And in nineteen fifty six, she's the first black person to attend the University of Louisville Law School. She transfers during her second year to Howard University School of Law in Washington, D.C., which is the oldest historically black university law school in the United States. And she graduates fourth in her class. Nice. And now she's killing. She's killing it. Yeah. In nineteen fifty nine, she becomes one of the first black women to pass the Kentucky bar.
And so she's taking the bar exam and a newspaper photographer shows up to take photos of her because it's historic. And she says to the journalist at the time, quote, If I had known how much was depending on me because she didn't even know about that, she was one of the first black women to even take the Kentucky bar. She said, I would have studied harder and Shooz and I would have worn something different for real, like I would send a bunch of photographers and make sure, like, no pressure, but you better pass this.
Yeah. So she was also like she was a great speaker. She was really funny and charming and caring. After passing the bar, she returns to Kentucky and opens a law office with partners in downtown Louisville. And over the next couple of years, Alberta Jones is profiled in the Courier Journal several times for her work and accomplishments and is described as cheerful and outgoing with a great sense of humor. And there's this photo that kind of goes along with all of her articles, and she's just this like darling, bright, lovely person with a big smile.
You know, it's an a bigger brain and a ginormous brain.
Just a I think about the guy Branum who I know who has passed the bar.
Yeah. And how smart he is and how much it takes to pass the bar because all of law study is memorization of specific, detailed. I don't know how people do it. It's an accomplishment. What the adversity of being a woman, which what did not happen back then to begin with and then be a black woman, which was also so challenging. Yes. And she and she did it at the top of her class, top of her class in Australia.
But yeah, there's. Yeah. Incredible. Right.
So she's a member of several distinguished groups, the Fall City Bar Association, the Louisville Bar Association, the American Bar Association. And she's a member of the Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, which is the third largest predominantly African-American sorority. And their focus is on addressing social causes. So social causes are really big. For Alberta Jones, this is the focus of her career. She loves speaking to groups of younger women to try to get them to also go into law.
You know, she's just she's a powerful person who could have who achieved so much in her short life and could have achieved so much more.
Well, that alone, I mean, being able to stand there and go, I did it. So can you. Yeah, that's that's all most of us. And we need to represent you. Just please show me one person that looks like me has a background like me. You know, the end has gone somewhere and turned around and goes, come on, you can do it totally. It's invaluable. So early in her career in nineteen sixty, so she's got this neighbor, you know, longtime family friend.
His name is Cassius Clay. And he's an up and coming boxer, and he is someone to negotiate his first professional fight contract for him. And so are you kidding? Here's his friend, Alberta Jones to you. Of course, he later becomes known as Muhammad Ali. And she against or like with or against 11 wealthy white businessmen working on this contract. Make sure that he gets a fair deal and even makes sure that some of the money is put in a trust that he can't touch till after he's thirty five because she's like, I fucking know.
You're just going to you know, you're excited to spend it all. So she yeah. This fucking lawyer, she negotiates this contract for him. Oh yes. Amazing. Brilliant. So she's also of course a massive civil rights activist, a member of the NAACP. She marches in Louisville, protests, attends the March on Washington in 1963, in August, and she forms the Independent Voters Association of Louisville. And so she with that with that association, she and they are able to register 6000 black voters in Louisville, which is a huge amount of people.
It's 6000 extra people voted in this upcoming election with sway things. So one hundred percent, it's important. So I just have to stop you really quick to say that it is bumming me out where we're going with this, because I've never heard of this person. I know.
I know. And it's it's that it's that we had never heard of her and all her work and then we had never heard of other stuff. And it's it's we can it's time. And, you know, Washington Post and New York Times and all these outlets are finally giving her and what happened to her the attention it deserves. So amazing. And I'm bummed. I know when she's doing this voter association, you know, things work, work. She also rents voting machines so that she can teach, you know, teach the people how to vote when they get in there.
So they're not nervous and freaked out. They know what needs to be done. I'm sure it's a really have loved that right. To vote first. Yeah. Yes, it's nerve and it's fucking you know, these groups of black people who have never voted before. And she wants them to be confident when they walk in. And because of this, this movement ends up causing a major political shake up in nineteen sixty one. When black voters help oust the old school mayor and many of the city's aldermen, they fuckin vote those fucking old school racist dickheads out.
Yeah. Because of their activism.
So and because of this less conservative administration is is in place. And Louisville finally starts enacting anti-discrimination policies. And Alberta Jones is also single handedly able to integrate Louisville City Hall by forcing officials to hire black employees. So she's this fucking little cute, fuckin sprightly, smart, excited, powerful woman who's able to make these changes in her early 30s, like, yeah, uncredible one better one.
But I mean, to actually have that sort of OK.
In nineteen sixty four, Alberta is appointed as city attorney in Louisville, the first woman to ever hold that position in nineteen sixty four. That's so radical. It's so good. In February of the following year, she's also appointed prosecutor for the Domestic Relations Court, which is another first for a woman and a person of color. And she's responsible for prosecuting mostly white men for spousal abuse. Wow. OK, so let's get to the bummer part, because this is a strong, brave young woman and she's this force.
She's up and coming in her career and life. It's a shock to everyone who knows her when on August 5th, nineteen sixty five Elberta at thirty four years old is found dead in the Ohio River. Oh, it's near Louisville's Sherman Minton Bridge.
Initially, police think her death is due to drowning. You know, I don't know, maybe they thought she had just jumped. But her car is discovered several blocks from the bridge and there's a massive amount of blood inside. And then they do the autopsy and they determined that she had received several severe blows to the head, they think, with a brick before entering the water unconscious and dies from drowning. And it's it just doesn't there's no rhyme or reason.
The night she died, Albertus sister Flora Shanklin says that her sister had gotten a call from a friend and that friend had been facing a lawsuit and like asked her to come out and discuss the lawsuit with her. It was like late at night. Elberta was like, I don't want to, but the friend kind of, you know, it was like a girlfriend can. And start to go out doesn't seem like there's anything involved with this, but I don't know.
And so Flora says the last time she talked to her sister, Alberta was on the couch reading a magazine about how about the Kennedy assassination, which had happened like two years before. And the last thing Alberta said to her was casually, I hope I don't get assassinated. And Florida responded, You don't have to worry about it. You're not the president of the United States. And that just stuck with her. So police investigate the murder. They find witnesses who report having seen a woman being attacked and dragged near the bridge by three unidentified men the night Alberta died, which I feel like in nineteen sixty five.
You didn't you didn't interrupt stuff like that. I don't know. They just saw it and moved on.
It's like they witnessed it and I don't know. And they didn't call anybody be like this is domestic.
I don't, I don't anything to do with this three against one. It's not domestic. Know who you're missing. Yeah. No, no.
And then strangely, they find her purse three years after the murder hanging from that bridge, the Sherman Minton Bridge, almost like someone came back to get rid of the purse or it tried to give a clue.
Three years later, it shows up and it has its its credit cards inside. All the contents are still on there. The checks and but the purse just shows up. But the case does go cold and the family is left without answers.
OK, so let's fast forward to twenty thirteen, a first year student at the Brandeis School of Law.
Her name is Lee Remington. And some articles it's Lee Remington Williams. But the name Lee Remington is just a fuckin you're a you're a cow person. You're a you're a cowgirl and you're fucking fighting the good fight, right?
Let's hope so. Yes, she is. She is. So she's like passing through her hallway. She's at her her law school. She sees portraits of civil right leaders and she notices this photo of Alberta Jones. And she is a big civil rights student. She that's like one of her passions. And she's like, how do I not know who this woman, this black and white photo of this woman with all these other civil rights leaders, how do we not know who this is?
And then she looks more into Alberta Jones and she's shocked to learn about her trailblazing accomplishments and her unsolved murder. So she's shocked about it. None of her classmates had ever heard of Alberta either. So she decides to start writing a biography of Alberta Jones's life to get her more recognition. And she even gets in touch with Jones's sister, Flora, who's now in her 80s. Oh, wow. And so Flora tells her all about her sister's death and how she thinks investigators ignored and buried evidence.
And she believes that someone she Flores Flores, thinks that someone paid the killers to kill her sister and that law enforcement didn't care about her sister's murder because they were indifferent about the murder of a civil rights activist at the time, which is fair. Yeah. For years, police told the family there's not enough evidence to arrest anyone and that none of the original investors, investigators were even still alive. So they couldn't it wasn't even worth reopening the case. And so when Lee Remington starts her research in twenty thirteen, police tell her that the witnesses in the case are all also dead.
And there's like there's nothing to be done. But Lee running down gets access to the case file through an open records request and starts reviewing everything. And she discovers that one of the detectives who worked on the case at the time was super young when he was a detective and he's still alive. They're not all dead. And so she goes and interviews him and he tells her he was in charge of collecting most of the evidence and writing the case report back during the nineteen sixty five investigation and tells her some details and that there is evidence that was collected and, you know, like vacuuming the car for any trace evidence and fingerprints and shit.
So she's like this is could still be an active case. Then Lee Remington finds that there had actually been a new investigation into Alberta Jones, this case in back in 2008 because the FBI had matched a fingerprint found inside Alberta Jones's car to a man who is 17 years old at the time of the murder. Oh, and who lived in the area.
He is referred to as S.J because he's not an official suspects we don't know his name. So Detective Terry Jones of the Cold Case Squad had in 2008 had interviewed this man and this dude, C.J. can't explain why his fingerprint is in this car and denies killing Alberta Jones, although the spot where her car. Had been found, which was kind of far from the bridge, was just a couple blocks from where he and his friends hung out and he claims this guy, C.J., claims he was a bookworm who had just graduated from high school.
He was going to college. And he also said so Albertus car at the time was in the shop. So the car that she was driving where they found the blood in was a rental car. And so this guy, C.J., was like, well, I hitchhike. I hitchhiked a lot. So maybe that's why my fingerprint was in the car. I don't think so. I mean, stranger things have happened. However, let's dig into this a little more.
Yeah. So C.J. offers to take a polygraph.
It's found that he's being deceptive, but he's never charged with anything. And CJ's brother tells reporters that he and C.J. had known Alberta Jones and had met her because she was friends with one of their doctors, but they didn't do it. And his brother said he was home with him the night that Alberta was killed. You know, it's fishy, but two years after the fingerprint discovery. So it's like twenty, ten prosecutors write a letter to the police chief and let them know that they're not pursuing the case further because there aren't any blood samples from the scene available for DNA testing.
Like there's not more evidence to test. Right. Why is there not more evidence to test?
They threw it away. It's just missing. Entire evidence box is missing.
So although a shit ton of evidence was collected by the FBI at the time, fingerprints, vacuum samples from every inch of the car, blood samples, the purse and its contents, her dentures, cigarette butts from the car, her shoes, her clothes, it's all missing.
Whoa. That's not that's a very bad sign.
And I bet it's somewhere like even if it's legitimate, like they can't find it, there's always those fucking storerooms and warehouses. But then you always hear about the floods and the fires that like destroy evidence. And it's just so we can't figure it there.
If there was something much more sinister and calculated about it than like saying that those three people were hired to kill her. Right. Then they you know, then then somebody could also have the juice to then make that case case file go missing evidence go.
And there are people, you know, that that she had issues with, although everyone loved her. Of course, she was a prosecutor and she was prosecuting men for spousal abuse, which is going to piss some people off. And the people she had to work with in the courthouse also didn't fuckin love the idea that they are working with or fighting against a black woman. So they're pissed about it.
You know, it's like then there's also the her influence on on politics and the voter, like basically like that's the power alone of the act. Yeah. Is huge.
Yeah. The people that are out there can have issues with her and hire someone. And it's it's a more complicated case to study. But you that's your job if you're an investigator. So it's your job. Right. And they also they the cold case unit says that there's no one involved with the case that's still alive again. That's back then in 2008. That's their narrative.
But so Ruddington now finds that this letter finds this letter and starts to refute each point. She now has over almost six hundred pages of research that she's uncovered through public records. She's fucking like down this rabbit hole, which is amazing. The most glaring one being that the that one of the detectives involved is still alive.
So she's like, your argument doesn't make any sense. I found him. You can talk to him.
And but also, is that the rule in cold cases? If the detectives who originally investigated alive, then too bad. Like, I don't that doesn't make sense. It doesn't make that you you don't have primary sources. But but you can also have their their notes and interviews at the time should stand for that.
That's the whole idea of keeping files and having an evidence room and obviously.
Exactly. Yeah. So Lee Remington also says that police back in 2008 failed to interview several friends that S.J had mentioned, hanging out with some of who lived, quote, a stone's throw from where the witnesses reported seeing Jones abducted.
And she says that Suge should be reinterviewed. People describe CJ as meek and harmless. And actually, Lee Remington says she doesn't think that he's the killer, but she thinks he definitely knows more than he's letting on, too.
Yeah, I think they describe Ted Bundy as being meek and harmless as well and attractive. And there's also, you know, there's speculation of, you know, what we already talked about as well as maybe her murder has to do with the contract she was drawing up for Muhammad Ali's fights. You know, which there's I mean, there's no I haven't seen any there's no basis for that. But that's just speculation around town. So in times like pulling that the other famous name into the story, right.
So it's a lot of money. It's a lot of money riding on this thing and money, maybe she's fucking with it and they don't like it.
You know, it maybe. Yeah, maybe she's cutting in in a way that's like going to establish a precedent. Right.
That, you know, it's like everywhere she went, she was actually really powerful and young and powerful and stirring shit up.
Yeah. Which is great. OK, so in twenty seventeen Lee Remington Williams now she's now a professor with a Ph.D. she sends a letter to the chief of the Louisville Metro Police Department requesting that the department reopen the investigation. And so the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice also decides to get involved. And the investigation is funded because there's this new law that had come in the Emmett Till Unsolved Civil Rights Crime Act, which provides thirteen point five million annual funds to the Department of Justice, the FBI and the state and local law enforcement agencies to investigate and prosecute pre 1970s killings.
And of course, Emmett Till is a 14 year old African-American child who was lynched in Mississippi in nineteen fifty five after being wrongfully accused of offending a white woman and her family's grocery store and his wife killers were acquitted.
It's just this whole what's the word travesty of justice. If this whole travesty of justice, it's sick. And so now all this money is being put into investigate, you know, crimes like this that should have gone a different way. Yeah.
That should have been investigated and properly executed. But what exactly? So finally, fifty two years after her murder, Alberta Jones case is officially reopened. And this means. I know. And this means her case also finally gets recognized by nationwide media outlets like The New York Times who did this great article about it and The Washington Post. Wow. But so it's reopened. She's finally getting the attention she deserves. And her legacy as a civil rights pioneer and advocate is also finally being recognized as well.
So because of the new attention around her case, which is this tragic thing, but also her work is being celebrated.
And certainly in the fall of 2017, Alberta Jones is honored in a hometown heroes ceremony, including a large banner of her photo being hung in downtown Louisville at 6th and Muhammad Ali. And it's this huge, beautiful photo. A local councilwoman sponsors a resolution to rename a street near Alberta's old downtown office honourary Alberta Jones, Esq. Boulevard. And there's portraits and plaques of her placed in the county's attorney's office, the University of Louisville Law School, and the library at Bellarmine University, where she attended law school and a law scholarship at Bellarmine is now named in Jones's honor and at her high school Central High School.
There's a new law and government magnet program, and the classroom stands as a courtroom and it's named in her honor.
Oh, you know. So good, huh?
And there haven't been any new leads, unfortunately, yet in recent years, although the attention that's being put on this case maybe will make some people want to, you know, confess what they know or finally, you know. Yeah, exactly. But a sergeant on the Louisville Homicide Department says that the case is still open. And as for Alberta Jones, she has this quote.
So people were constantly doubting her, saying she had gotten home from law school. And they're like, you have two strikes against you already. You're a woman and you're black. Like, what? What what do you think you're doing? And she would respond, quote, Yeah, but I've got one strike left and I've seen people get home runs when all they've got left is one strike. Hell yeah. And that is the story of civil rights activist Alberta Jones and her tragic murder.
Alberta Jones, Alberta, just to name most more people should know.
Look, I mean, she's fucking I mean, she's light and power and love.
There's so many stories, though, that are like this where it's it's the. The murder of black people who are making an affecting change in places that need it so badly, it's so part of the tragedy is how common this kind of a story is and how much we don't hear about it and how how swept under the rug it is. Yeah. Yeah. And it feels like in his last in his last five months or so, it's people are especially it's white people starting to wake up to the fact that they have these incredibly incomplete education and picture of how this country has been working and how it needs to change.
And also, just speaking about this, because Alberta Jones is from Louisville, they still need to arrest the cops that murdered Brianna Taylor back and straight up murder. It has to happen. And everybody knows this case is it's her face has been on the cover of Oprah magazine. I mean, it's like this talk about something. I bet you Alberta Jones would get behind in a very big way if she if she wasn't murdered in the prime of her life, fighting for the murder of a young woman who was absolutely had every one of her rights.
Absolutely. There is no world that where you can argue that that was not murder from the from the the cop who lied to get that warrant to the cop who fucking signed it, knowing that it was incorrect and that the person who they were signing the warrant for had already been arrested that day to the number of bullets that were shot into everything. Going against procedure is so egregious. It's so beyond God to change. Yeah. Great job. Beautifully done.
I'm so excited that I know who Alberta Jones is. Thank you for that. Yeah.
Well, OK, let's let's end this by reading some fucking Tories. This is from Kelsey at this. Mrs. Robinson, I have a fucking hurry. Going back to teaching has been one of the most stressful and trying seasons of my life, not knowing what will happen to seasons.
She called it one of the seasons of her life love. And I bet you she is not over thirty years old. She's definitely still in the spring winter area. Yeah, OK. Not knowing what will happen between health, safety, mental health and the status of my job, people insulting and manipulating the situation makes you question if it's all worth it. But this week I was reminded why I chose this job. The kids I teach three year olds to eleven year olds and they are messaging me how they miss me and love me.
I'm reminded that this is a season that will pass and reminded of the kindness in people shout out MFM for highlighting the good and we can all persevere through these times together. Did you guys hear about the shout out in the Letterkenny?
Oh yeah, I know about the squirrelly Dan is a fan to say, Hey, good job, Kelsi.
Sorry you're in that situation and it's very smart of you to keep it positive like that.
Yeah, and thanks Letterkenny for the shout out Letterkenny. We talked about that a long while ago, right. Yeah, but yeah. Canada. What's up Canada.
Lovely. This is from Con Man Bell 14 on Instagram. Hi, Karen in Georgia. My fucking hurry I wanted to share with you guys is as a twenty four year old gay Christian. I recently came out to my parents and hope to soon introduce them to my amazing boyfriend of three years.
Oh, my message to others is that no matter where you are in your coming out journey, that is that you matter and you are loved both inside and outside of the closet.
Thank you, ladies, for doing what you do and for being allies to the LGBTQ plus community CGM, Connor, Connor, that's like double hard gay, gay, Christian.
But you fucking did it like you did it. What an incredible feat.
Yeah, we're proud of you. Awesome. Yeah. Congrats. Yeah. OK, this one's from Victoria. My fucking is that my family and I have been playing an UNO championship since the beginning of lockdown. Yes.
We didn't have any idea how long it would last, but we knew we would keep playing until one of us went back to, quote, normal life. My dad went into his office last week, so we finish our five month long championship.
And I won that with a score of seven thousand three hundred and forty two score was eight thousand three hundred and thirty eight.
Ha ha. It's been such a lovely way to spend our evenings together, especially as I'm going back to university soon and we will be living three point five hours away. Thank you. Murder girls love this podcast so much. You're all awesome. Keep doing what you're doing. You are valid.
You are supported. Oh Victoria. Sorry you did that to all the. Going back to school. Fuck, good luck. This I've been really enjoying the university, you know, they all have to go two weeks before to like quarantine and the meals that they've been giving them that are disgusting meals in their dorms been really during those photos.
OK, I'm enjoying how people are going back immediately. Fifty eight people get sick and then they cancel in person classes, which they shouldn't be doing.
They should be doing crazy.
This one's from Benjy. Here's a fucking her right is covered started. I found out my best friend had to move from D.C. to California for work that night. I broke down and told him I had feelings for him. Turns out he felt the same way too. But we'd both been too nervous to say anything because he's a cis straight guy and I'm a trans gay guy. And he wanted to make sure my gender felt respected and I wanted to be sure his sexual identity felt respected.
Well, three days modern looks.
I love it three days later, I got covid symptoms and moved in with him because I had been with my parents and they have heart. They have heart disease. Long story short, I'm typing this from a hotel room in western Nebraska on the 3rd morning of our cross-country road trip. And because quarantine time is weird, we're talking about marriage. Wow.
I can't remember the last time I felt this happy. And I've saved a backlog of Mepham for the trip. So you've been there with me for the ride. SDM, Ben and I look, of course, had to I sneak and look at the Instagram that they and it's the cutest. I cried. I cried. It's like it's the best things about social media. It's. Yes, that's so lovely.
Congratulations to the younger generation.
They're going to be like the the beautiful part of it is that, like that's such a brave thing to do. That's such a strong, brave, kind of like important thing to declare feelings in such a risky situation, such a question mark.
It's so brutally I mean, it's like it's only one life and you get to decide what chances you want to take and are willing to take whether they're going to work out or not. You you get to decide and like, are you going to regret, you know, when you're fucking 40 that you like me? You didn't you didn't take those chances. You know, I. Yeah.
That you didn't like what the you calculated that risk. You did it right.
And it worked out for you and we're fucking stoked for you.
I'm stoked and super jealous, which I think is even better. A better compliment is I kind of hate you a little bit for being so young and strong and modern that you're like, you know what, I I'm so I would, of course, like me back. Where did you get that? Is that self esteem in it? In a nutshell, that's how you build something. You build it.
That's what Generex Gen X parents give you. That's right. You know, we we didn't get you and I had fucking boomers as parents and they were like you and me that a man will never love me.
If with your wife marry will marry a rich man, Georgia, marry, go to college, they can meet a rich man, get yourself a doctor. Why don't you want me to be like my dad would say, get yourself a doctor. My mom would say no. Become a doctor. Yeah, you know that share quote where she goes. My mom always told me to to marry or to marry a rich man. And I said, Mom, I am a rich man.
I can they listen to share whatever you do for real. That's that's a way to live a life, right? That's right. That's amazing. That's a nice job. Everybody everyone's, you know, in the midst of a real shit time, there are people who are making it work anyway.
Just try a little bit. That's all you got to do. We believe in you. Thank you guys for listening. Stephen, thank you for helping us in a RV right now in the middle of a desert in Arizona.
I love it if everyone thinks I'm in a desert Stevens in the middle of the desert in an RV, he's doing Burning Man by himself this year.
How is he engineering on this drive on the playa, Steve?
It's beyond ayahuasca. Yeah. Bring me back. So that's why you're a barfing on me while we were doing our story. I love it. Send us your pick entrees wherever. And they thank you.
Thank you guys for being there for us. We get lots of stories about like you. We're here for you because you're listening to our voices are it's me. You guys have changed our lives. So much for the better. And we can't we can't literally cannot thank you directly, properly, especially in foreign. But we love you. Please note deep in your heart and we mean you specifically. You specifically you. Yes. The one who thinks it's not.
You know, I know you're important to us. Here's another thing I want you to hear.
Stay sexy and don't get murdered by Elvis.
Do you want a cookie?