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Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us. Starts right now. Are you guys ready to see your fixer upper?

Just say the word ship flap. And you know, I'm talking about America's favorite TV home design couple, Chip and Joanna games.

I work harder. Not smart. That's true. In 2013, fixer upper on HDTV became a phenomenon.

Go get them. Tell me what you got making the Waco, Texas husband and wife household names. Demolition.

Yes, 19 million viewers tuned in each week as Chip and Joanna juggled their marriage, raising four young children, life on a farm and the highs and lows of transforming rundown houses into dream homes.

Right now, I'm crying. Their popularity and their growing empire named Magnolia exploded. Thank you, guys. Transforming the town of Waco. Tourists flock to visit their retail stores and restaurants. They opened a bakery, launched a magazine and wrote seven bestselling books.

In 2017, after five seasons of fixer upper chip and Joanna shocked their fans by announcing they were ending their show.

Now, after two years out of the spotlight, 17 years of marriage and a new baby.

They're back in a big way. Oh, snap.

This July 2021, Chip and Joanna will launch the Magnolia Network on Discovery plus streaming service, offering 150 hours of original content, including several brand new series focused on home food design and the arts. They've also added to shows of their own on Discovery. Plus, I know your table with Joanna Gaines is pretty and the much anticipated fixer upper. Welcome home.

We're back. We are back at. Hello, Chip and Joanna. My gosh, guys, so good to see you. Welcome to Super Soul and Discovery plus and my garden in Maui. It's great to see you guys. Sorry, it has to be virtually this time. We are beaming you in from Waco, Texas. And I hear that one of your restaurants burst a pipe in the recent storm. It's true.

Yeah. I mean, this happened pretty much it became a bit of a statewide epidemic in the sense that, I mean, pipes were frozen and of course, people didn't realize that they were in a pickle until the the ice started to thaw. And just like millions of other people across the state, we went into the restaurant with water just pouring out of the drywall overhead, and it was because of a frozen pipe in the ceiling. So it was quite the wake up call for sure.

And obviously, the whole family survived that. And now you're telling me it's 70 degrees there. So that's got to feel like whiplash.

I mean, we have gone from one extreme to the other. And then for just a few short days later, it to be in the 70s has been like we were felt like we were all collectively fighting for our lives just a few short days ago. And now it's like we're there with you and your family.

But you know what's so interesting about the fighting for our lives?

I remember when there was the Hurricane Harvey and all of that major flooding.

And I remember so distinctly this black man being out in a boat and being interviewed by some reporter and him saying, why are you constantly, you know, out here you haven't had any sleep? And he said, this is what Texans do now. This is what Texans do.

So I also noticed from this recent catastrophe, everybody coming together in a way that represents the spirit of what we believe America to be.

Did you notice that we believe the best in America, period, and we love the state of Texas and believe the best in it. And so I'm a proud Texan and I was actually a transplant. I was born and raised in Albuquerque, New Mexico, for about the first seven, eight years of my life. And Joe was in fact born in Kansas, but we both ended up in Texas.

And all that to say, it's just like Texans really know how to come together when something like this happens and then the whole country coming together and you feel their support, it just it was a powerful moment for sure. Yeah.

But I just never forgot this is what Texans do. So I was preparing for this interview. Guys, I got to say, you have to be the hardest working couple.

Your lifestyle brand, Magnolia is now this huge I mean, huge empire.

And I wanted to know when you started, was this the dream or is this a case of God dreaming a bigger dream for you than you even could dream for your.

I would say when I think back to the dream, it was the smallest it was, hey, if I can have ten customers come in through the doors a day and I get to interact with ten local women a day, that was kind of my goal. It was never any of this. And so I think that's what I love about it, is I really feel like he birthed this dream ness and it's his thing. It's not really ours at all.

And we get to watch this magic unfold.

When you first opened your local designed store, when was that? 18 years ago. You decided that it was going to be Magnolia Market. And I have since learned that term. Magnolia, the Magnolia tree, all of it has really deeper significance for, of course, you, Chip, who climb the big dollar tree, I think.

Was it on the first day if you've ever seen a magnolia bloom there? Gorgeous and really huge. So I plucked one of these blooms off of this tree that was over, climbed the tree.

I mean, he had to show up. He used to say that when he had his landscape business, he would climb these trees and he would scale them and trim them. And so he wanted to show me how he could scale this map. It was a huge magnolia tree.

So watching him get up there, he he had to show off Joanna because wasn't was an hour and a half late for the first date. And I'm telling you, he would have been a minute later. I told my roommates I was like, I'm not answering that door. If he knocks, if he doesn't come in the next five minutes, we're not answering. So he he only had about five minutes left.

Or it would have been I hate to be ugly and be completely transparent here with you today, Miss Winfrey. But Joe, I was like quite the catch. I was really a bit of a player.

I don't mean to go on and on about my love life, but Joe was a bit of like the librarian type. You know, you'd pull the pencil out behind your bun and then realize what was behind the scenes was this beautiful, spectacular woman. But she would have waited. I mean, she has an hour later than the hour and a half. She would have still been waiting. Oh, I wouldn't have. No. He stalked me when I worked for my dad at his Firestone store, I did these commercials for car maintenance, tires and repairs make Jerry Stevens Firestone.

So he'd always say, if I could just meet her.

So he'd come into the Firestone store once a month and finally we bumped into each other. So I would say you were I was stalking you before librarian, this whole thing.

Oh, right. All right.

You know what? This thing you guys have this authentic thing is what makes everything that you do work. So have you taken stock of what the empire entails? Do you all look at yourselves and say, oh, my gosh, look at what we have done? I know you have this incredible business. You now have your own network and all that comes with that.

I think for us it's exactly opposite. I'd really love to hear your take on that, Miss Winfrey. And I mean that very sincerely. What I call me Oprah.

Oprah. Hey, Chip, I'm going to call you Chip, OK? I'm not going to call you Mr. Gates, OK? All right.

Well, if you'll give me permission, I will certainly take it. Yes. Or but I'd love to hear your perspective on this, but Joe and I were both so ambitious isn't the right word. I just mean hopeful and optimistic and excited that even now is all these things have come on line. I feel like we're going to lose it any minute. We're so grateful and we're so thankful and we're so honored to be a part of this journey. But I definitely feel driven to stay one step ahead of whatever it is that feels like it's right around the corner.

We have those conversations. But I think in when we're talking in a place where we aren't, it's not about the fear. I think when we start in the beginning and think this was a gift that we feel like God handed to us, it's true that if it does if it does all go away, we're still going to be fine, that it's not ours to begin with. You think you would fight for it, like if God came down and said, I want it all back?

Yeah. Don't you think there would be a power struggle? It wouldn't be like this borrowing.

It definitely wouldn't be easy. But I think the way I'm more fearful than Chip, I'm a fearful by nature. And so for me to be kind of at peace, I think I have to be at a place where if it all goes away, we're still just fine because this wasn't ours to begin with.

Yes, guys, I know this feeling all too well. I mean, because in the early days rise of The Oprah Winfrey Show, I was like, oh, God, OK, this goes way.

I'll never get another job in television, that kind of feeling, because it feels too good to be true. I actually relish having made every salary. I mean, I started out making one hundred dollars and then got a raise to one hundred and fifteen dollars a week and then I made ten thousand a year, twenty twenty. So I've come up the ranks and it makes you appreciate where you are right now even more.

What makes you marvel the most about where you guys are though, like on just a regular level, is that we get to do this together and that we really like each other.

Like I think the fact that we get to drive to work every day together and we get to tackle these big dreams together, I always have to remind myself every day like where it started so I can really appreciate where it's at. What we started with was so minimal. We were fighting for our lives from a financial standpoint. It felt like every day, every day it was like, do we turn the lights off? And the fact that we're still hanging on together.

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Check out the debut season of Built to Last on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Don't go anywhere. More to come after this short break in 20 21, it's finally OK to talk about our mental health and happiness. Humans aren't meant to keep everything inside. It makes us sick and therapy helps. But what is therapy exactly? It's whatever you want it to be. Maybe you're not feeling motivated right now and would like some tools to help.

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Join the millions of people who are seeing what therapy is really about. It may or may not be for you, but it's worth looking into because you are your greatest asset. This podcast is sponsored by Better Help and Oprah Super Soul Conversations. Listeners get 10 percent off their first month at better help. Dotcom slash super soul. That's better at dotcom slash super soul. I saw you on an interview, John. You said that getting the intention right helps make all other decisions going forward that much better and changes his perspective.

I can relate to that because intention is the foundation of everything I do. I mean, I don't do anything without thinking about, OK, why do I really want to do this? And so how has that played a role?

I think for us, with time, we think about the time we have. We have five kids. We've got this business. Anything we say yes to. There's got to be a meaningful way behind it.

It's not just to add it to our portfolio or tackle bigger dreams when we can align with the Y and get passionate about it, then that gives us the fuel to actually get us across the finish line. So I think the intentional part is the most important thing because that's what gets us to show up every day to do the hard work.

And you all spent a year off camera and then decided to come back and start the network that year off camera was because of what?

Well, there was numerous things I would say on my side. It was when you're filming for four or five years, you you begin to lose the way it's now. Just the thing of like we're just showing up. And I think towards the end, we just lost steam. We lost the purpose in it. We wanted to wake up every day and say, this is why we're doing this. And I think towards the end, it almost felt like it was wagging our tail and it was controlling us.

And I remember she and I both said, listen, if Fixer's going to be over and let's say it's tomorrow, how long do you want to basically push pause on any opportunity that may come from the universe our way? How long do we want to hold off on those decisions? And she said 12 months. And I said, you're not going to believe it. I mean, one year was exactly the the time that I had in my mind as well.

So we basically just told our agent to just take all the calls and put them in a folder somewhere and that we would get back to them later. But kind of the way you described it early in your career, Oprah, where you were saying we didn't know that the phone was ever going to ring again, we didn't know that anybody was going to care about us 12 months down the road. We honestly knew very well that this could be the end of it.

This could be just like a chapter was a lot we were advised not to do.

And I think that's sometimes what gets us really excited.

I was going to say everybody, all of your agents, all of the people who work around you work with. Yes. Like don't do that. You can't stop for a year and and come back. And not only did you do that, you stopped and you came back stronger than ever.

And I have to say, what did you all do during those might hunker down and let's be honest again. Oh, yeah. She doesn't have to be transparent and honest. So most of the time she's guarded, wasn't I already now know.

Oh, so we had we had four children before we started filming fixer up. All the babies were on the ground when fixer upper started. And then you might notice Oprah. We had zero children during the five years that we six years that we filmed fixer upper. And then as soon as we took that year off, magically, we we had another child. So that's what we did.

That's what we did. We had to like we had to find ourselves again. I think what happened in fixer Oprah when it first started, we really thought, oh, wow, people in wake are going to get to watch us do these renovations. We didn't know anyone outside of Waco would tune in to this show called Fixer Upper.

And so millions of people like ninety million, we actually love our production company that bound us from the very beginning, had had had a really extremely amicable relationship back and forth. But they sat us down early in the process and said, quote, This is going to be really a niche of a niche of a show for it to have really connected with people on both coasts now all over the world is what I think.

Unbelievable. I think in that process, when the fame thing happens, which that even seems weird for us to say fame, but there's something that you lose a little bit.

You lose normal stuff like the normalcy of life. And I think and that five years we never got to deal with that because we were just going we were filming. And then every year we'd realized, wait, more people know us. You know, you can't really go out as much like you used to. So I think what happened is we needed that year to really ground ourselves again as humans and say this is what's normal for us. Like, that's good.

It was important.

So what kept you grounded? Guys, this is such a great conversation to have with you, too. I have discovered that fame is just your life is the same, you were the same. And everybody has an idea of what that is. It's just more people know your name. And I think if you don't know who you are when the fame thing hits, then you lose yourself.

Did you all start to sense that or did you know that you were grounded before you even before the fame thing hit? You were so grounded, had your own life, the four kids, and you took the time off because you wanted to reground.

And I would. I want to speak on Joe's behalf because she would never say things like this, but she is so incredibly wise, so incredibly grounded, all the things that you just described is who Joanna is. And to be really frank, I thought that's who I was also. But really, what what happened and was the truth for Joe and I was it was no big deal for her. But for me to become famous, I lost a part of myself that was really it was sad.

And I would say it took me a year or two while I was still filming to try to grapple with what exactly it was that I was losing. And then that year off, I really think that Joe and I were able to kind of hunker down and really kind of try to unpack what it was about fame that seemed so incompatible with my personality.

Chip is just he's so relational and that is what fuels them. But it's that authentic. It's when it passes that layer of superficial to them, that really genuine, authentic thing. And I think sometimes with fame. Oh, my gosh.

Can I get a picture with you? I think that's what maybe eats his lunch more, that it's just it feels a little more superficial because of maybe who he is more than who he really is. And I think it's important to him these authentic, meaningful moments that the more famous you get, the harder those moments are to come by. Yeah, I love this.

What you write in your new book, No Pain, No Gain. Chip, you say that for much of your life you were a shape shifter. You were always trying to change your personality in order to fit in. And I thought, this is so interesting. You wrote My Imitation Act, took its final bow soon after I met Joe. What was it about Joanna that made you figure out who you really wanted to be?

Great thought and a great memory to go back to, because when I was in high school and pre high school and then college and young adult hood, I was always trying to be everything for everybody. I mean, no matter who I ran into, I wanted to be the most liked human being on the planet. But when Joe and I first started dating, I realized and she would bring this to my attention, just how many different versions of myself I was trying to entertain simultaneously.

And I just remember when she said to me, who is it that you want to be? I remember that we had this really kind of heartfelt conversation. And I said, Joe, I want to be who God wants me to be, whoever that is in the future, this future version of myself. I want that more than I want anything in the world. And I remember that we had a kind of a breakthrough moment when that when that kind of popped out of my mouth.

And I don't know where it came from, but I know that there was some that's what I think brought me like that piece of if that's what he wants, I can trust that. But I can't trust if you want to be this or that for everybody. And so I think that did that was a really clarifying moment for both of us. Yeah.

You also joked that I never wanted the loud guy and you weren't looking for the quiet girl either.

Is it because opposites attract that you all are so magnetic? This is what we're watching. This is the you're opposite. This makes you so authentic.

I appreciate that. And I certainly agree with that thought that opposites attract on our first date was just talking and talking and talking.

And I sat there and kind of went away like this isn't going to last. He talks too much. And this is one I've heard God's voice more than ever. I heard him say, this is the man you're going to marry. And I'm arguing with God. I said, no, it's not in my mind. Way, way in the back. I'm like, no, it's not. This is the man you're going to marry. No, he talks a lot.

God, you don't tip.

Still going. He doesn't even know I've left the conversation now. I'm, like, arguing with God. And so for that moment, I knew, holy cow, like my whole life, I was attracted to quiet. I was attracted to the life of the party. What are the chances? We got exactly opposite of what we were attracted to and somehow it worked.

Well, you know, Joanna, you've talked about how at different points in your life, you've heard the voice of God, God has spoken to you. And since this is super soul, I want to know how that shows up for you. Is it like a voice in your head? Is it a feeling? Is it prayer?

How does God speaks three of those things for sure. It's always met with this presence of peace where any time I'm wondering, what does that mean? Because I'm in my head a lot. Like a lot of the times I'm wondering, is that me talking? I will say there have probably been five pivotal moments in my life where I can say that was God's voice. I would have never that was that was him. And I felt this sense of peace almost like that moment where you get chills and, you know, there's something else.

So I think that's something that since I was a little girl, I've I've experienced God in that real way, very relational. That's why I kind of with the idea of religion, I shy away from that. It's more my relationship with God. It's like no one else is just like yours with, you know, it's like God is so creative that. I can't impose what my belief and what my relationship that I have with him should be like chips or should be like yours, it's he shows up and beautiful, unique ways for all of us.

I'm very realistic. I need to hear it. I'm literal. And so that's how he shows up for me and for Chip, it's very different.

So, Chip, how does God show up for you? How does God shows up for me? And very practical, real ways, you know, like I work. That's how I meet with God. And when I sweat and I'm lonely, I'm sad, I'm mad about something. I mean, when you chop firewood, like literally that or demo day, you know, you see this Demo Day thing, you don't have to have any talent to be good at demolition.

You just want to break stuff, you know? And I think that God meets me in those very childlike, very natural, very simple ways. You know, I'm not a theologian. I don't understand. I mean, there were years you know, we both grew up in pretty conservative Christian families and we were brought up in church in the very traditional sense. But I didn't love to open the Bible and read the Bible for hours a day. And then I would go out at my granddad's ranch and I'd get on a horse or I'd get thrown off of a horse or I'd go try to wrestle a cow or I'd go see a cow being born.

And I would really feel like I experienced God in those moments.

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I've interviewed tens of thousands of people over the years, and when you ask people, what do you want to be happy? Most times people will say, oh, I just want my children to be happy. Joe, I read that the reason the whole family works is because you all put the marriage first and everything else comes after that.

Yeah. And I even think but even before that, it's one thing I'm so thankful for is that we met each other a little later in life, was probably one of the oldest of his friends to get married.

And in that time period, it's like we both I know for me, like as a woman, I figured out know I wanted to be as whole as possible with all the stuff like, how can I be whole? We didn't want to come to marriage saying, how will someone complete me? But I think as much as we can not rely on each other to fill us up, that's not our job. It's to come together and partner together. Then we're the best for our children.

So it's got to be in that priority in our minds and our heart and in our home that we're healthy and whole so that our children what trickles down to them is health and wholeness as well.

It's like our relationship is what brings us passion and energy and fulfillment. And if Joe and I are out of whack in that sense, then obviously the kids are going to suffer as a result. And then we think about our business will, of course, then suffer as a result of that, and it becomes a compounding enemy that works against us.

Joe, you know, I've kept a journal my entire life, and I heard that at one point you let Chip see your journal where you've written down the dream of Magnolia Market. And, you know, I'm a big believer in that. What happened next? Can you give this? You showed it to him. I have this idea.

And then, you know, I'm such an internal processor and I have to journal every day. That's how I start my day. And that's the only time Chipps ever seen my journal is when I said, hey, I've written down some dreams I want to do. But when I showed it to him, for me it was a dream. And when I used to say dream, that meant it'll probably never happen. Well, when I showed up, he said, Why wouldn't you do this if it was in such a like a childlike faith?

Like, why wouldn't you try this? And I said, Oh, I don't want to fail. What if I fail? And he's like, well, what if you fail? And so I would say a week later you get one pep talk from Chip game and it's like I can rule the world. And so the next week I find a building chip is like, hey, anything. It was a tiny little building burned or we had no building.

You could possibly imagine. Somehow he gets a loan. I mean, within three weeks. Now, I own this building. And now the dream that I had dreamed of for years, I'm seeing like happen and play out because chip gains. Coach Gaines said go for it. And then I'd say the rest is history.

This feels like such a perfect it's an incredible match. You can see the hand of God all in it all over you all because you wouldn't have been the person woman that you are had it not been for him and he wouldn't be who he is had it not been for you. In what ways do you bring the best to each other?

For me, it's perfectly clear. I was like chasing my tail. I was like a dog chasing his tail in his circle, trying to be all the things for all the people. And I can just beyond a shadow of a doubt, quickly say she grounded me. And it's almost like the dog then saw the tennis ball or whatever and calm down. You know, I was just such a an idiot and I was just so, so anxious and so excitable.

And my dad used to, you know, in a loving way, but was like, man, son. Talking to you is like trying to get a drink of water out of a at a fire hydrant. And it was just like I was always that kind of energy, you know, it wasn't pleasant. It wasn't huge. It was like anxious, anxiety inducing, you know.

And Joe has just kind of grounded me in this place. The where I would say that just it's almost like when when I die or I'm on my deathbed. What I'll say, looking back, is that I owe you my life because you settled me down. You know, you kind of it's almost like a horse that's wild.

Oh, I think I can tend to, again, because I'm more operational click into like a robotic mode and just show up and do the thing and forget the why. A lot of the times forget the joy to find the joy in that moment. And Chip is always teaching me, if you're not having fun, if you're not enjoying and savoring these moments, then why are you doing it? And he also pushes me to do it.

Chip and Joanna are the proud parents of five children. Sixteen year old Drake, fourteen year old Ella, twelve year old Duke, eleven year old Amy, and their newest addition, their son, Crewe, born June 21st.

Twenty eighteen. In your book, McNall, your story, you write about how you made the choice to let go of someone else's ideas of perfection and not just survive, but then to begin to thrive.

Survival is something that I think a lot of us we always try to figure, hey, today, what are we feeling? Are we feeling like we're trying to tread above water or are we thriving in this moment? And I would say when I said that a long time ago, it was when I was, you know, mothering for kids four and under.

And I just felt like I couldn't see straight. I forgot what was I doing. And I was treading water and I felt like I was in the deep end. Oh, my.

But that's after you shift your mentality and you see the wonders of the things that wake them up, the things that bring wonder to their eye when you start getting out of your head and you start seeing the moment for what it is, which is a gift. It changes everything. And I had to have that pivotal moment of, you know, I wanted my house to be perfect, but I have four kids. And it was I had white couches.

Who does that when you have four kids? And so I was constantly trying to juggle this life of perfection, but then also trying to be a good mom. And I realized that my priorities were off. And the second I let go of that perfection is when I could truly start living. And it's like now I look back and think I'm thankful I learned that early on because now it's just a lot easier to parent when I'm not worried about all the other things.

Is it true that since you all have been married with kids, that there has not been a TV this year?

I tried to tell Cheb we did a little add on to our house and I said, can we please get a TV and put it over the fireplace? And he said, no. But from the beginning, Oprah, when we were engaged, we went to marriage counseling and they said, hey, we challenge you guys for six months, don't get a TV play cards go on a walk.

And so for six months, they left it to us to say how long, how long do it and go. And everybody said, a couple of weeks. A couple of months. We just came back instinctively, like we did with the year off of television. We said we want to be without television for one year. And wouldn't that be something we literally just thought it would be romantic. And at the end of that one year, we said, well, got another year.

And we both looked at each other, kind of laughed and was like, all right, let's do one more year. And then after that, the people that say it takes 21 days to form a habit, those people are like it takes two years to four.

But I will say after that second year, we've never looked back.

Well, how do you how do you watch yourselves? This is funny. Do you not watch when the fixer would be on? We'd go to our friends. So every Tuesday night we'd get a babysitter and we'd go to friends and we'd watch it.

Well, now with the discovery and we'd sit and just laugh at me. We were like, he is, oh, wait, that's me.

I'm funny. Such a dork. But now with the streaming we get in front of my little computer, all seven of us on the couch. And I took a picture the other day to show a friend and they said, you're not joking. You really don't have a TV. We've got this tiny little computer and all of us are trying to see us. And so that's that's how we watch it. My mouth is open wide.

The irony of having a network and not having a TV, you know, kind of odd, but very crazy. I tried this year, Oprah, and he said no. So I'm fine with that.

More of this episode after a short break. Anyone's life felt extra crazy lately. OK, maybe everyone's life has. Well, here's a delicious, crunchy way to help unclassy your life. Almonds, a snack to help fuel your best. You mind, body and soul almonds are natural energy packed. Stay on task. Feel good fuel to power you through a handful of almonds, has six grams of plant based protein and is an excellent source of vitamin E and magnesium.

It doesn't get any easier to feel good so you can feel good. They also taste great anyway. Any time hool as a snack, almond milk in your smoothies or almond butter spread on just about anything. It's just really that good. That reminds me, do we have any almond butter here anyway? You eat them. Almonds are natural fuel for the best. You California almonds on your every day. Every day. More of this conversation in just a moment.

Spotify and higher ground launch a new podcast, Renegades Born in the USA. President Barack Obama and Bruce Springsteen sit down to discuss the country that's given them both so much, chronicled the stories of its people and connect their own search for meaning, truth and community. With the larger story of America, they may seem like unlikely friends, two men with very different backgrounds and career paths. Yet they built a friendship on their shared sensibilities and a belief in the American ideal.

In renegades born in the USA, we get to eavesdrop as they reminisce about their hometowns and role models, explore manhood, fatherhood and grown up in America, and examine the sometimes painful distance between the American dream and the American reality. And they get into some trouble with a joy ride in Springsteen's vintage Corvette. Don't miss renegades born in the USA. Listen free only on Spotify. I want to ask you a few questions I've been asking other special guests about life during the pandemic, what did the pandemic teach you that you could live without and teach you that you could not let me do it?

Can't live without. OK, can you do the. Can live without. OK, ok. You feel ok. But am I giving you a.

I don't know what I'm going, I'm just you go. OK, my thing that I have found that I longed for so desperately is just human touch and sincere in person, human connection and relationship. And I, I knew that, I thought I needed that. But I have come to a place of like, very sincere, passionate understanding that, like, I need a hug, like I need to shake somebody people and to look people in the eye and tell them I love them and for them to say they love me, you know, and I knew that.

I thought I needed that. But I would say beyond a shadow of a doubt, I now know I need that.

What I realized during the pandemic is the time with my kids. Like I didn't realize the gift that it would bring us, even with crew.

You know, as a little toddler, you know, we have Drake, who's 16, who's driving for the first time. And this week, you know, and then you've got crew who I'm trying to potty train.

Are you nervous? Wreck every time he goes out.

Are you nervous with every time you get to where I follow him and it shows how far I've turned into that mom, where I'm like, oh, he made it.

And she literally burst into tears the first day. Like, I'm opposite. I'm like the biggest cheerleader. I was like, dude, you're going to get to go through a drive through restaurant. You're going to get to order your first hamburger by yourself. I can't believe it. There's going to be so exciting and just thought he was like moving to Paris. I didn't know I would react like that. But it is I'm still dealing with it like.

It's like what? I'm not even a crier. But there's something about that season shift that I feel like I hate change. Like I. I love the way we do things. I love taking him to school. The connection I have with Drake in the car is our best time together. It's when he's the most vulnerable and real is me and him in the car. And now that moment's gone. So I feel like for me, I'm just grieving the loss of that, but also so excited about the freedom that he's finding as a sixteen year old boy.

So it's such a weird thing, but I didn't think it hit me like that. I told the other kids it won't be as hard with them. It's just the first I had to deal with it to get through the first.

And now this idea of taking houses, turning them into homes, being a place where literally the essence of the people who live there gets expressed in those spaces, you're going to do that on your network with every show. What is the vision and intention behind the network?

With every show that's on the network? When we are finished watching it, our hope is that when others are finished watching it, that they say what's untapped in my life, what fear is keeping me from that, whether it's small or big, it is that idea of, hey, they have they've inspired me to move forward with this.

And I think that's our hope, is that when people watch these stories that they in some way can relate to the talents, vulnerability. When you put yourself out there and you're vulnerable, I think it opens up the door for other people to do the same. There's a freedom in that.

So those two things, unbeknownst to us, because we didn't go after these units, these shows with this thought in mind, but as they started developing and we started realizing there was a common denominator in all the shows, it was vulnerability and risk. I mean, these people were taking these life worthy risks, these God sized risks in each of their circumstances under completely different each story was different than the next. But we just realized that we were really drawn to those two components.

And the more different, the better. You know, I think a lot of people were like Chip and Joe network. And we're just like we don't want it to feel like we want every show to feel different and unique in its own beautiful way.

Yes. And showing us the possibility, I think, you know, what I come away with any time I watch one of your fixers is that, oh, you see possibility and things that you didn't know were there. And then that is a metaphor for your own life, finding possibility for yourself.

OK, I want to ask these little super soul questions for you. When was your faith most tested chip gained?

I would say when we were just on the verge of bankruptcy. And I joke with the our inner circle that the only reason we didn't file bankruptcy literally and technically was just we didn't really have enough stuff to qualify. I don't think we could have gone back. What were they going to do? Yeah, give us that chicken. Give us back our dog. I mean, we didn't have any things. And so, I mean, there were just moments where Joe and I were at the absolute end of our rope.

And I think I really did kind of cry out to God in a pretty literal sense and was just like, God, I'm so sorry for this. Whatever. I've gotten myself into here, and if you can get me out of this and if you can help me find a way out of this, I'll I'll be forever grateful. I'll remember this forever, that I think that the idea that when you go through that type of pain and suffering, you can't help but be empathetic and sympathetic to people who are going through issues of their own.

And it makes you want to help if you want to be a part of the solution.

But it also it Joe, in Iraq, it changed our view, our idea of money. I think for four years we were like, God help us.

And I think now that we look back, it wasn't that God was like allowing that to teach us a lesson. I don't believe that's how God works in our life. But I do think he uses these as beautiful lessons. And instead of looking at money as a savior or the thing that's going to get us to get to the next level, once I get this boy, I'll be happy.

It was a tool.

And once you understand how to handle and understand money, it no longer once you get it, it doesn't have that hold on you.

I was going to say it doesn't have that power. And I look back now and maybe that's what you needed.

Maybe that's what you needed because you believe. Yes, God knew what was around the corner besides your work, obviously your family and children, what do you think is your true offering to the world? Because I believe that all of us come here with gifts of grace and that the work that we do is an offering to the world.

What do you think that offering proves?

It's a deep, deep thought, deep question.

What do you have some thoughts that come to mind or I think, well, I have a couple things that I would like me to ramble around and just to give her a little time to get her thoughts together, I wanted to make sure I didn't steal her thoughts.

I think finding beauty in kind of in everything, whether it's like I can look back on my life now and all the times I begged God to get me out of this, whether it was when I was little and I was being made fun of, or I and I couldn't find friend like all the moments I said, God, fix this right now.

I can now look back as a 43 year old woman and see the beauty in that moment that I couldn't feel when I was little or that I couldn't feel when we were struggling financially. But there's beauty to be found in everything. And I think whether that's a house, whether that's someone's story, whatever it is that to to look for the beauty, that beauty will always rise in the ashes.

You guys are awesome. I see why the world loves you so much and the world watches you and they see this well lived life. So this is my final question. You appear from every aspect of things that we know about you to have a well lived life and a lot of people seek to have this well lived life. What is your advice or offering to people who are looking to get what it looks like with the two of you for us?

You know, one thing Chip is always pushed us both on is contentment at every stage in our life, having this contentment with what we have here. This is enough. I think for us it's like finding contentment in every stage and not assuming that the next stage will be better or that that really kind of savoring that gift and moment in time this season, even if in pain, kind of find contentment there. It's that in every season it is a well, love life because we are living and we're breathing and we have this gift of time in our hands.

And so for me, it's that right here and now, this is a well, love life no matter what I have.

That is what all the great philosophers say. Thank you so much, Chip and Joanna Gaines, thank you for coming on Super Soul. And you know what? I can feel believe that your vision for the network is going to be blessed because you are in alignment with that intention. So God bless you both. And we look forward to seeing you both on Discovery.

Plus, I'm Oprah Winfrey and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. If you haven't yet, go to Apple podcast and subscribe rate and review this podcast. Join me next week for another super soul conversation. Thank you for listening.