I'm Oprah Winfrey, welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast, I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is time taking time to be more fully present. Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us. Starts right now.

It's a golden ball morning in the sleepy lakeside town of Sunapee, New Hampshire. This is about the last place I'd expect to find one of the biggest rock stars on our planet before he became music legend Steven Tyler.

He was Steven Talarico, a skinny, rambunctious boy who spent every summer of his childhood helping his parents manage a handful of vacation cabins they rented to tourists. In his best selling memoir, Does The Noise in My Head Bother You? Steven says it was here in his beloved Sunapee, where his spirit was born. What a perfect setting for our surprising and open hearted conversation.

How my house. I brought flowers from my house to your house, and I cut these myself yesterday in my garden. Oh, do you? Yes.

Yeah. So you take one. I love this place, right? I do. I love this place. I love this place. It's a little nook. It's a little nook. I can't believe it is so. It is so on rock star. Like I can't tell you. That's the other side of it.

Going to find out about. We're going to find out about that side of you. Well, we can put these down someplace. OK, beautiful. How's that feel. Well, tell me about this place. Is this you know, I read your book and as I'm driving and there's.

Actually, the have a smaller than I imagined the way you described it in the book, very country, very small, very country, very small. This is where you are. That's why. Yeah, that's why. That's why all of this is like it's a place that you can grab on to. And there's so much God here and so much life on life's terms here. Huh.

This isn't where you grew up, because where you grew up actually is like where they like little cottages. That's the way you describe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you bought this and then I bought this. Yeah. I would drive by and I'd look down and I'd see down and it was an enclave and a little nest and this house was there but it never looked like this and. But the dock was and the trees were and especially the rocks.

I'm so glad to be here. Thank you for letting me come here.

You know, it's really special when somebody let you inside the space that really is private and belongs to them in a way that people don't normally see you. I think that's amazing. Yeah, this is so calming.

How can you you know, I wake up every morning and I walk down over here like that and I go up those stairs and they jump right off the top of that into the water. And that's my good morning. Really? Really. Yeah. Yeah. So how long have you had the house? You cried. Twenty six years. Wow. And you know, it's one of those places that because you were on tour, we never really go anywhere.

We're always everywhere else, you know. Huh. So so this is always that winter place that we come up to and, you know, have somebody shovel out the snow and come down and light a fire. Yeah. But in winter, nobody's here. I remember in the book you describe standing at the harbor once when you were like a kid and nobody was there.

Nobody because this is deserted and. Well, yeah. And everybody this is deserted. Now listen. You know, usually boats are going up and down and sailboats and people and kids laughing, but, you know, when I was never I never experienced that when people left and I got separation anxiety. I woke up one morning and I realized that the sidewalks were rolled up. And because everybody's gone. Yeah.

And I think I was 17 and I thought about being a man and what am I going to do? I have to get a job and sustain, you know, this thing called life. I'd never put it together.

It was like but I loved you when you were saying that, you know, everybody else was going off to be a man.

People in high school were going off to be become a man to man thing when you weren't you weren't thinking about that at all.

No. I had such a beautiful home life with her and Phyllis Galani and Linda. Linda. She's she's here.

And your dad. I'm so sorry to hear about your dad, but. Ninety five, come on. Ninety five.

Steven's father, Victor Talarico, passed away just days before I arrived. Victor was a professional pianist. Like his only son, Victor devoted his entire life to music. Steven and his sister Linda buried their father next to their mother, Susan, here in Sunapee.

We were all in the room with him when he took his last breath. Oh, it was just last week. What was that like? Oh, I heard him make a noise.

And it was like. You know, it's so hard to to explain it was such a loss. We were all sitting there crying up a storm and, you know, it was just for every breath he took, he took three breaths and then he'd hold it for 30 seconds and then take three breaths again. And then and then it would be held again for forty five seconds. And then it was the last one. It was a whole hour of that.

So it was.

So for every breath you're holding wondering is this going to be the last thing is going to be the last. And you know, I got to sleep with him the night before and hold his hand, talk to him and everything. And it was just. You know, I've never done that before. I've been told that to be with somebody when they die is one of the most important things you can do on the planet to help them out.

Well, that's what I've heard. So that's what I wanted to know. Was it that way for you? Did it feel that way? It felt that way.

There's a piece of me that didn't want to go through all that didn't want to hear all that. And it was a piece of me that knew that I need to be there with dad. And then when every second was changed, I realized the family was with me, 12 people, and then I was alone with them like this, listening to my daddy take his last breath. And it was just so you know, that now I can I can intellectualize about it.

But it was just pure feeling, pure emotion that daddy's going right now.

Oh. It was so, so hard. I was the last thing you said to him. I love you, Dad. The last thing I said I heard him take. He held his breath for forty five seconds and when it got to four, five seconds, I said I was like, so, you know, and I went, mommy or daddy? And then I thought it took another breath again. I thought, oh, just. Yeah, because mom passed away two years ago and I just said, Mom, Daddy's coming to you and, you know, I tried to be that spiritual guy, but that my emotions took our way, way too much.

And I love my daddy so much. I wonder what it be like when your mom and dad are gone. Like I've heard people who say when they've lost their parents, do you feel like you lost your anchor? Yes and no, because I afforded myself the last year, wherever I was, I was able to complete it and just stop on a dime. People were lending me their planes and come see Dad. Sorry, I got to wrap up my relationship with him again.

And he was there. But not one day he'd be playing the piano because he was a classical pianist and the next day, you know, wasn't there at all. And I just every time I think of dad, I thank God of this whole last year that I got a chance to be close to them. That's the part. Yeah. Things I never thought about. That's what matters. Did you get a chance to say everything you wanted to say?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Feel everything you wanted to feel. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

This I could see where you could. Why don't you come home to this. I see. Is swimming to these rocks and just sit there. And this has been a beautiful year except for the bittersweet of having the family there because my dad passed, you know, live said, you know, I've never been with with my sisters and brothers. When my mom passed upstairs, she said that and you imagine that that's we live these kind of lives, you and I, that when the tail of a comet.

Right. And when we stop and we really do feel the family, I feel bad. I do what I do. I feel bad. I left, you know, me and my ex, my first wife here. I left him here. I abandoned him. I was on drugs, but also went on tour. And then I come back here and think, oh, my God. Why do you leave on? And let's go and time, why did I ever leave?

It's all OK. It is. It's really all OK.

Are you a nice boy? This looks like a family lives here. Family lives here.

How? Rock star family.

Yeah. Yeah.

Just added the leopard thing and we just it just it was it was not so good before.

That really looks good. Looks good now this year. Yeah. When we first started I bought one of those. If you read in the book about me finding a suitcase by the side and I opened the suitcase was full of dirty Roc's ounce of marijuana. Yeah. And it's on a box. I bought that. That's what you dig. Some guy up here, we stop. That's what is so magical up here. We stopped at the gas station and I says, I have your own piano, so excuse me, because you have the piano that you dream on on says Aerosmith on the top.

And I where is it? I went overlooked and he wound up giving it to me because the guilt at him to death, that's it.

He didn't make you pay thousands and thousands of dollars. Again, it was really nice. That guy local. That country guy. That is it. There's the magic. There's the magic. There's the magic. And how long is this piano been here? My dad gave you this. It's a it's a super long eight footer, so it's got phenomenal bass. And he used to play here all the time. Yeah. He played here. Yeah. He always wanted the tune before he came in and he was playing here five months ago.

Four months ago. Yeah. Really. Yeah. But he wasn't playing this correctly.

This. I managed to get out of my house, it was about. I got to finish this book at. I will finish that, you will finish it was in the house. Oh, yeah, in the house. Oh, but in the house. All right, let's go sit down. OK, thanks for letting me in your house. So cozy, so warm on a cold. I would love this on a cold, rainy day.

Right. Fireplace going.

Yeah, yeah. The outside all the for all the sunny days and the fireplace kozulin the wall.

Yeah, yeah. Love, love, love, love, love, love.

This is what I love about you. You understand ultimately that we are all just transmitting energy, that you are electromagnetic field. You talk a lot about that in the book.

So what is it when you walk into a room, do you think the energy charge, what is that energy charge that you're you're emitting?

I think it's it's being willing to be a receptor. Oh, like, I, I when I look at somebody, I can I have a whole problem today with judging. I'm not supposed to judge, but I wonder when I look into people's eyes I feel something from them. It's an unspoken thing. I can feel the energy and I get something and I understand where they're coming from and all kinds of stuff before they even speak. But I think it's because I'm open.

I think it has to do with us being willing not to mention your magical being. I feel it from you already. I think before you were open tunnel famous, I think I want to said from your being, it's your personality. Not everybody's born like that with it. But you went and ran with it. Yeah.

So now let's talk about running with it. When you were growing up around here, was there a part of you that sensed that this would be a place to come home to but this would not be your life? Definitely. I first grew up here and had all those feelings about the water and the smell. I went out in a canoe before and I was paddling in by myself and the smell off the lake. And this is the true Stephen. It that is it.

Looking for a little beach here. And that's why I bought this property is like, you know, fifteen feet of beach and the feeling in the woods. And so then I left at eighteen nineteen to rock and roll out and why I'm taking so many drugs that alter your stuff. That's you know, I thought I was taking this with me because every time I smoked a joint I felt like I was up on the chairlift about Sunapee, you know what I mean.

Every time I would do whatever other drug, I felt like I was underwater here, you know, look at the fish and all this. I was trying to recreate it. So when I come back here and felt it again and it was such a poll because by then I had been addicted to the dark side or the the light side, may I say I am surprised you're still alive.

I am just you know, when I read your book, I don't know of another who is taking more drugs, has done more stuff, has lived outside of yourself more than you. You know, it used to be called here that now it kind of hurts. It does a little bit. I might have a little shame about, you know, not being as wide eyed open like this while that was going on, like during the 70s and the 80s here.

I was just full blown doing stuff that. Are you surprised your life?

Yeah. Yeah, I am. Yeah. I used to hate people that said this last run I was on a nighttime sleeping drug and and drugs from my feet because the operations I had because I have to walk around and it hurts to walk. So I was on those drugs and just just that little bit. It makes you like this, whereas you and I are peripheral visionaries and dammit, what was I doing this for? Was a more comfortable heroin, you know, is like putting it's like I've got a chinchilla.

It's like putting a coat on a cloak of fur heroin. You Leakey's just feel so comfortable in a world of doing Madison Square Garden coming off stage, you're getting pegged to death like chickens. It's a comfort to go sniff a little something and go somewhere. And so I just rode that that beast. But this last run when I was like, falling asleep here in the pit, you know, the pit being over there could be right there. Yeah.

They would say, you know, you're going to kill yourself, you know, you're going to be dead tomorrow.

And I thought what just fell asleep is what I normally do. So it's an adventure.

You know what? The drugs for me was falling down the rabbit hole.

I know. Alice, you got Alice. Oh, yeah. We had an affair for a long time. What did drugs do for you?

That fame and money and adoration and all that comes with being a rock star could not.

What did drugs do, I think made me feel like a rock star before I was one, because I thought that that's what rock stars did.

Did you always know you were going to be a rock star?

Yeah, yeah.

I told my mom and as they put in the book, I said, Mom, go to the bars on the window. I mean, how lofty is that?

But, yeah, you put bars on the window because the fans are going to be coming. And she would say, yeah, yeah.

Oh, she would say, OK. Right. And so I just I lived in that world. I you know, the funny thing is, is everything I've ever thought of, of imagined I've done really I've imagine doing this with you before, really, because it was something I wanted to do. I like you. I loved your show. I loved who you were. I knew you. I knew that this was going to be really comfortable for me.

And I knew that I wanted to get something out more than just singing before, because remember, I'm a drug addict, alcoholic. I know that there's another album in me. I think there may be another high. I don't know whether I'll survive it. I hope not. I'm so locked and loaded right now and aid and in my program, my 12 step program that I'm good with it. But yeah, I always.

But that doesn't mean you will never get high again. No it doesn't. That's the thing. I know it won't, but it doesn't mean I won't. So I have to be careful about that.

So when you say I know you want, that means you believe. You want, you think you want. You don't want to go.

I've got what it means is right now I've set myself up with sponsors. I've got a. Bunch of great people in my life that are sober as well that have been to the dark side, lived in the dark side of the moon, and I love them. I've got a great sponsor in L.A. I got a sponsor in Boston, and I go to meetings and I, I keep it real and I don't want to go back there or I lose it all.

What's the lowest you've been. Seventy nine. Eighty one. Eighty to seventy nine. Everyone in those years.

Yes. Walking the streets of New York looking for heroin on 9th Avenue and in between stuff it happened so much you know. Yeah, even as much as many drugs as you've been on and eight times in rehab, you still don't think drugs are all bad?

Well, no, they can't be. I mean, you know, I took them on the right now from my feet. If I wasn't, I would be losing it because it's so painful that Morten's neuroma. And why are you feeling so bad? Because of where? And I think from dancing around, dancing on stage all those years, I have no toes and I just have a big fat toe. They're all squished and underneath, you know, and the other my toes are all like this.

They took the nerves out of here and here. So after that operation, I simply this was this was 2002, three years after that operation. I was on so many drugs and I didn't give them to someone else to hold. Remember, I'm a drug addict, so, you know, I'm in bands like this and I start snorting it. And and I got really bummed out, ashamed.

Steven was sober for 12 years when a string of medical and personal issues brought him back to bad habits, Stephen began suffering the effects of Morten's neuroma. It's a painful nerve condition in his feet. He had surgery but feared he'd never be able to dance on stage again. While he recovered, the band took a year off.

For years, Stephen had been infected with hepatitis C. He began undergoing a painful, year long treatment regimen which cured the illness but left him weakened and sick as he rehabilitated another blow. He and his wife of 17 years, Teresa Baric, split.

So that was 2002. I had hepatitis C and you know, you shoot the interferon and I took a lot of more pills and I was supposed to and the band was taking a year off. And I said, OK, I'll do it. And I started you to treat your hepatitis C, your hepatitis C? Yes. Because I'm the kind of guy that jumps in with both feet. Let's do it. So I did. And three months in, I got into it right with my wife.

She left me and I was there with the kids alone and I was diagnosed with a brain tumor and I had another boy's problem. And I went, Wait, what? What I might not be sexually active anymore, and I have a tumor, I mean, I was I was just every night I had to straighten up and go to sleep with the kids. And at night after they came back from the nanny and just pretend to be right and then.

My mom passed. You know, there was just a lot of things, both dogs died, the kids, when they went away to college. This was just in the last year. So it was a nine year run of things happening. But I wasn't going to meetings and point blank, I'm just I'm that good a drug addict. I have to always remember there's a 500 pound gorilla waiting in the parking lot for me.

Now, it feels weird saying that after two years because they do have it under control now. But I have to always remember that. I have to always remember that. Always, always, always, and, you know, I've always said of all the things I ever lost, I miss my mind the most. It's one of those things.

Yeah, what you say in the book is, is that the drugs take away the peripheral vision. They do make you myopic, makes you myopic.

OK, so what's the difference between walking out on the stage with thirty thousand people on drugs and off drugs, on drugs? Can you feel them or do you feel them differently?

When I got sober, I asked myself, why did I even take them on stage? It was just a way of life. You know, I wasn't born this. Remember, I survived the 60s and 70s. If you didn't take LSD in high school, you weren't cool. And we took it. It was so great. We took acid and walked up to the top of Mount Sunapee, walked, tasted the wind when it blew and drank Pinetree.

You drank it. You could taste the water before we looked at a brook. Oh, yeah. The green smell of the rolling hills. You tasted it. Oh. Oh yeah. Some drugs are the greatest. It's just it's it's like, no, I can look at a field full of wildflowers and smell and taste it just as well. You don't need that. But it was fun back then and that's what I did. Jimi Hendrix excuse me while I kiss the sky and kiss the sky, but.

You know, it's that I wanted to taste everything and see it, but I you're talking about all of these experiences that drugs gave you.

Yeah, but I can do that now with a song I can get so inside of. I don't want to miss a thing when we're in the throes of an emotion and I'm singing to them. I don't want to miss a thing. And they're singing the words back like this. Every word, every nuance.

I don't want to get in one night. I don't want to use one kiss. I just want to be with you right here with you just like this. I just want to sing it back to me full on there.

It's like making love. You're singing a song. It's a it's a complete song. As lyrics have been worked out, they've been crafted in such a way to mean so much. There's the first verse to set you up. I could lie awake just to hear you breathing once you smile while you're sleeping so far away and dreaming, it's just a complete set of two. I don't want to, you know, I don't wanna miss a thing. Oh, it's a complete full sentence.

It's a lifetime in song if the melody is just right. Tell me this, though. How do you do that?

Night after night, year after year for forty years and not be completely controlled by your ego? How does one live a life where you are idolized?

You are an American idol and hold on to yourself.

I just I don't buy into that lofty I can't live off the ego when it comes to things like that. Who who do I think I am? It's like a gift to me. That I get to be that guy on stage. It's not something I earned because I'm that great. It's a gift that I've made contact with him. That's an honor, so my ego, it's a gift, and when they came, that was the gift that anyone showed up at all.

So it's not me. I also know at any moment I could sing a song and it could be the end of my career.

But do you feel like a rock star? I mean, I have to say, I mean, I have a wonderful life. I love my life.

But I would have to say that in the world of, you know, dream things to be on stage, I was I had 10 Tina Turner on the show years ago, and we did a song together on stage in Los Angeles.

And just looking out of that crowd and seeing the people, I thought, well, isn't this this is an amazing thing to have happen to you, that people are singing the words to your songs and they're literally, you know, holding you in some kind of reverence?

Well, I imagine being in a room full of twenty thousand people and they're singing that song and they're singing that chorus the whole place together, you've gotten everyone on the same page for a few seconds. What a miracle that is. That's beyond miracle. And I feel it.

What are the songs come from? Well, that one came from Diane one.

Excuse me, I love Diane here, but like sweet emotion.

Tom was playing do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do I don't. Swedenborgian just came.

Yeah.

Are the songs always there waiting to be uncovered or do they come in.

Well the gift my father gave me playing back and Beethoven I would say that piano and I grew up under it from six months to eight months on the couch till I could crawl under there and feel very confident when dad played Bach and Brahms and Debussy.

Boom boom. Ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba boom.

And you'd be on air. It sounds like this looks this lake in the water boat out at sea. The water's moving this way. Oh and there's the trees in both houses and maybe the birds fly. It's all a complete sentence. So I learned that living under the piano hearing that. So I think they used to say the guy that did the David Michelangelo would say, yes, it was always there.

The rock was in the way. I just chisel the rock away, the melodies there. I've learned it from my dad, the gift. And it's just waiting. It's like a hanger and I'm waiting or a hat and waiting for the just right hat rack to come along. I know how to fling my hat right onto it.

Arrowsmith is the best selling American rock and roll band in history. Over the past five decades, addiction and internal conflict have threatened to tear the group apart. But in 2009, in the middle of a performance in South Dakota, Stephen fell eight feet off the stage, leaving him with a broken shoulder. He says no one in the band visited him in the hospital, which upset him to this day. In his book, Stephen says his band was plagued by something he called the other LSD lead singer disorder.

Let's talk about LSD lead singer.

Isn't it the funniest? Yeah, I you know, when I was reading that, I was thinking, well, yeah, of course. I always wondered if you're the lead singer of the band, then the rest of the band members sometimes get pissed off with you or jealous or want to know how come my name isn't up there or why doesn't that happen?

It happens hugely.

So you're the only person I've ever heard talk about it, because I guess it's an unspoken thing is they're afraid to tell you flat out.

It it it I put myself in their position, you know, when someone comes up and asked for my autograph because I'm the big lip singer of the band of Aerosmith and they don't ask my drummer, I'm so hurt. You are. I am so hurt. So can you imagine. What about him. Yeah. I said, you know, but the truth is, is that they, they're not as well seen. They're not as the I'm not even in a personality.

I'm so beyond that. Yeah. So, so when so because of that personality that I am that I put that out on this dancing bear and all that stuff. I'm the face that they recognize and it hurts them and in that I don't think they I don't think those guys in the band have really looked at that and said, you know what, I'm just I'm jealous. Let's call a spade a spade. You know, I was jealous of Joe when he was girls would come up to him.

When we first started out. I was. So I get it. Every lead singer gets it from the rest of the guys. Let's talk about forgiveness then. So does it come with you forgiving and then also forgiving?

Let's talk about forgiveness in the role that it's played in your life. It's one of the things now that I've learned is forgiveness is the answer to everything. It's the answer to every problem anyone has just and it's not some people say just let it go over. Let it go. You go. I can't do that. But if someone says, you know what? What if you forgave them? Just do it. Try this, try forgive. So I forgive you and then say I forgive myself for what I did to you too.

But I forgive you for what you did to me. And I just want to love you. I know it sounds really, you know, or touchy feely or stupid to nice almost right. But it's really the answer to everything. Forgiveness. When I left Betty Ford after falling off the stage and with all the anger I had against those guys and boy, do I have some anger.

But the anger wasn't just about falling off the stage.

No one was angry that they didn't come to the hospital and go, what's wrong with you? Even that would have been fun. I would have felt so healing if they. What's wrong with you, man? You ruined it. Him I know you probably use and you know you. All right, man. And they said, well, we didn't come because your manager said to stay away. And I said to one of them, you know what?

If it was at the White House, I have gotten through the grounds to come in and see you.

Oh, I just said that. Yeah.

And so it because the bottom line is you fell off the stage, they didn't come see you. And what you wanted to know is what I always say. And I've said all these years, everybody wants to know that I matter.

Yeah.

You want to know that you mattered, that you're falling off the stage mattered and somebody cared that not somebody that your band mates cared that that happened to you.

Isn't that the truth?

I guess that's it when you boil it right down to it. I wanted them to come to me. And are you all right?

Yes. Are you all right? But you know what?

I did what I called a band meeting, and I wanted my band. I wanted to tell them something I was about to tell you, but I sat there with them. I begged for their forgiveness. I said, Will you forgive me for falling off the tour stage and ruining the tour? You forgive me for that. And they said, yes, you got it, I got it. And they said and they said, I forgive you. And after now, it's been two years now the most amazing miracles happened.

We're back to the way we were back then. We're going to go back on tour and everyone's cleared and. Rock legend Steven Tyler calls his four children the loves of his life, his oldest daughter, actress Liv Tyler, was born after an affair with model Bebe Buell. Steven became a grandfather when Liv had her son, Milo. Steven married his first wife, Surinder Fox, here at Lake Sunapee. Together, they had Mia, now a model.

After nine years of marriage, Steven and surrendered, divorced. She died of a brain tumor at age 50. Steven, second marriage to Theresa Baric, lasted 17 years. They had two children. Twenty two year old Chelsea and 19 year old. A few minutes ago you mentioned you said my wife left me.

Were you a good person to be married to? I wanted the dream.

I knew I could get anything as long as I could imagine it.

And I saw a picket fence and a lake, a lake, the lake, just all of it. When I brought my first wife surrender here, I brought her. It was freezing cold. January brought her in the jeep out here to this house. The lake was frozen, pulled up like this. The lights were out. Moon drove all the way out here. And I went, OK, open your eyes. And actually, her eyes were closed all the way to here.

And I said, Close your eyes. And I turned the lights on. I said, Now open them. And here was the house. And I married her and we had Mia and and then, you know, I abandoned them, I left them up here. In this house, yeah, you're not the happiest person about that, you know, I talk to them about it a lot and you know, you know, because I really haven't forgiven myself, because I'm a realist.

I know what I did, regardless whether I was on drugs. A lot of people have told me, that's OK. I hear them, I get it. But a piece of me, my heart still broken that I did that to her.

You know, my angel always says, when you know better, you do better. Did you know better when you left them here?

Did you know then what you were doing?

I think that's why I'm so shameful about it. Because my the me that's me who you're looking at now knows better. Oh, yeah, I know better. And I went out on tour, I went out on tour and I was alone and stayed and stayed on.

I wasn't getting along with your mom and it was this.

I'm not doing it. And it was so wrong. And I once thought that thinking was so cool. Now it's interesting. Yeah, it's so wrong. You said that being a father changed you. And when I read that, I thought, well, I didn't really. Because you continued your life.

As you wanted it, as you saw it, as you chose it, it felt like for many years without regard for your children, am I correct or not?

You are OK. Yeah. I had them, but obviously the drugs got in the way that the lifestyle got in the way and then live and was with Baby, she was my girlfriend and I'm old. And don't get me wrong, every one of those girls, I love them dearly. When we made love, we cried.

And after that. Oh, that's good. That's good. And after that, we had a kid. Oh, really? It was that when it was that heavy. Yeah. There was magic. Yeah. It never was planted. It never happens like that all the time. Right. Never crying. And you know as you climax and that's something I never even told the book you ever told anybody that was it's those four times really. Well we are each time you cried and there was and we had baby really it's like oh something that was.

Yeah.

Young and babies were born and and live and, you know, well, it's good to be born out of that. That's a good thing. So it's not beyond love, you know? And because you were irresponsible, were you not irresponsible?

Yeah, I was. I just hate thinking about myself. Like, that hurts right now. I get it. I see the picture. I can own it. It just still hurts.

Yeah, and when I see live now and we cry and, you know, I talk about it not as much as I did when I first got sober. Yeah, I said you may never forgive me and I would talk like that. And it was something they didn't want to hear. Forgiveness has to be earned. I have to earn it. Do you think you have yet? Do you think. Oh, I've been there for them. Oh, yeah.

We've done this. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's great.

I'm Oprah Winfrey and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. If you haven't yet, go to Apple podcast and subscribe rate and review this podcast. Join me next week for another super soul conversation. Thank you for listening.