You are listening to the Reality Steve podcast with your host Reality Steve. He's got all the latest info. And behind the scenes, Juice and Claires upcoming season of The Bachelorette and interviewing some of your favorite reality stars. Now, here's a reality, Steve. What's up, everybody, welcome to podcast number 192. I am your host reality. Steve, thank you. Put it in a great episode this week. The always entertaining Michel Money is on the podcast.

You saw her on the Goat episode this past Monday. We talked briefly about her time about Tripto and Bachelor in Paradise Season one. We do talk about her relationship with Mike Weir. Yes. She even addresses if marriage is in their future.

And of course, we talk about what happened with her daughter Rielle back in April. That was life changing. And Michelle's got some interesting thoughts on that and just how her life got basically flipped upside down back in April.

First, some housecleaning things to take care of. Nick Viall, you all know my stance on the podcast, you heard it in the first 10 minutes of last week's podcast this past Tuesday, Nick opened up his podcast talking about the reaction during the first 50 minutes of his podcast with JP Rosenbaum. I listened. Here's what I'll say. Nick's lack of self-awareness from doing the podcast with me to that response he gave on his podcast two days ago is mind boggling.

So, yeah, that's my reaction to the podcast, just no self-awareness. Moving on, some things to talk about in regards to my site, in regards to Claire's season and regards to what's coming up right now.

Obviously, we know clear season is underway, filming 42 guys that they released online last week. You had all their names and Instagram handles that I posted that day last Wednesday. Those we all knew, 42 men weren't going to make it on. The exact number that they started with, I do not know yet, it is very clear I can I can name at least five. That definitely didn't make it on. And that was Alex be Alex Rousselot, Hanyang, Collins, Youngblood, Josh Elhaj and Ellis Matthews.

There are probably others, but those are the ones I know for sure. There are people that got eliminated after night one, which based on their activity and based on things that I have heard, definitely Jeremey Higgins and AJ Allen are gone from the show. Pretty sure it was after night one.

But when those guys that were eliminated preshow are only 24 hours removed from 24 hours later, guys were opening up their phones and going back on Instagram after first rose ceremony. It might be a little bit tough to determine who was eliminated, preshow show and who was eliminated at first rose ceremony.

But we've got plenty of time filming is underway. Like I said before the season even started. This is going to be different. She's not doing it. There's not many public dates. Maybe they'll let paparazzi on the site to get a couple of pictures like the Daily Mail had a few pictures of player, you know, in her biker shorts and sports bra, you know, hanging around with production. Like that's about as much as you're going to get.

I honestly don't think many pictures are going to come out, probably not any dates. And if they do, it'll be because ABC is allowing certain things on site, certain outlets to be on site. So, yeah, but in terms of what I'm going to get, I just don't know.

I might get things here and there. I might get nothing all season and then find out everything once the filming is over. I really don't know at this point. So the spoilers will be probably pretty light as the season is going on compared to past seasons when I spoil a lot of things in real time. As for the goat episodes, as we know this upcoming Monday, there's no episode and then in two weeks is Alli Fed Hatalsky season of The Bachelorette.

I can tell you this from what I do know, everything from the goat episodes has already been filmed. So all of the Chris Harrison stuff was filmed before he left for looking to where they're filming Claire season. So there was a question member. I brought it up a couple of weeks ago. I was like, well, we'll know he's at Lakita because he'll be in a different place recording with all these people. No, I found out that everything's been recorded.

Every goat episode has been recorded and it was done before he left. The thing is, I don't know which other goat episodes besides Ali's and besides Juan Pablo's, which we know is going to focus a lot on Claire since it's going to probably lead into Claire's season. Those are only two, I know for sure. But there's another three or four weeks in between them that I don't know what's being what other seasons are being considered.

And as for my website, as you know, since covid started, I've basically really done nothing outside of produce a podcast. Every Thursday I started out with the Beverly Hills recaps that ended after a while just because I got so backed up. And I honestly just the motivation to write the recaps. I was so into the show. I was getting so far ahead of myself watching the show that I didn't feel like writing about it because I was enjoying it so much.

But we will get back onto your regularly scheduled programming on my site. However, things will be different in that normally on a normal season. The episode airs Monday. My recap is Tuesday, read her emails is Wednesday and then podcast this Thursday. Well, Claire season, as we know, episodes are airing on Tuesdays, so I'll probably move reader emails to Tuesday.

My recap on Wednesday with the podcast being Thursday, I don't know yet. It seems to be the most logical. I can't write the recap earlier than Wednesday. So but maybe I combine the recap with the reader emails. I don't know what I'm going to do yet. And maybe it's only two days a week that I do something Wednesdays and Thursdays, but I'm going to try and do something else. I'll probably do reader emails Tuesdays now instead of instead of Wednesdays and just.

Flip flop, those two, but other than that, we'll be back to normal once things get going and the plan is assuming there is no shutdown of the season, the plan is clear. Season will start airing Tuesdays, mid-September, and then we go from there and then we're back on track. Looks like Matt James, the season is going to film in September. Like every bachelor season. It'll film till whenever before Thanksgiving and then first Monday in January.

We're back on regular schedule with the first episode of Matt James season. So I'll keep you updated.

We'll hear things as things go on, I'm sure. And any interviews? I'll read, tweet and post on my Instagram stories. I'll keep you updated as much as I can. But as of right now, we don't know the exact number of guys that started Claire's season. We don't know the exact number of guys that were eliminated on night one. But we do know quite a few. We know of at least seven or eight that are definitely not there anymore.

So I will keep you updated on that. But anyway, let's just get going here. One of my favorites she hasn't been on since Episode 15 of my podcast, which was way back in early 2017. And then in the very next week, Episode 16, she interviewed me for over two hours and those were very fun podcasts we haven't had her on since. So a lot to get caught up on. We just saw this past Monday night on the Goat episode.

So here she is, Michelle Money podcast number one ninety.

OK, let's bring her in. You remember her from all the shows?

She was on season 15 of The Bachelor with Brad Womack is his second time around. She was on the second season of Bachelor Pad and the first season of Bachelor in Paradise. Michelle Money.

Joe, hello. How are you? Thank you. I'm doing good. How are you doing?

It's been a long time. You know, I didn't even realize it until we watched the show earlier this week that you were podcast number fifteen. This podcast that I'm recording right now is podcast number one. Ninety two.

Wow. I have to try it.

And then you did fifteen and remember the very next week you interviewed me. Yeah. Yeah.

Number 16 I, I didn't realize I haven't had you on since then. I thought I know.

Crazy. I know. I'm so glad you're still doing it. I mean I remember when you reached out and you're like I'm starting this podcasting and like look here you are still doing that which is so great. I'm glad it's been so successful. Yeah.

The first five or six I didn't do interviews, so it wasn't until I think podcast number six or seven where I started interviewing former contestants. So you were basically no. I think two weeks before you. I did Claire for the first time and then she was that I think episode thirteen. I can't remember who was fourteen. And then you were 15 and 16 and. Wow. Yeah. No, God, it's been such a long time, but that's crazy.

Great, of course, to have you back on. Thank you. We've got a lot to discuss, obviously.

Clearly, a lot has happened in your life recently and yeah, we'll get to that.

But when the show aired this past Monday with with Brad and his second season, I you had gone on Instagram story a few days before before he recorded with Chris Harrison. And you started to say that you really were getting anxious about this.

And I'm curious. Yeah. What were you just thinking? Oh, my God. More people are just going to jump on me for the stuff that I did. Or what were you thinking about why you were having anxiety about talking about it again?

Well, I think for me, like my experience when the show aired back ten years ago, it was such a traumatic experience. Like I did not know they were going to edit me into the village.

And so for me, I'm thinking it's going to like my experience on the show is awesome. The friends I made were awesome.

Like, I come home and I'm like excited that this show is going to air. And then the promos started rolling out and it was like, wait a minute, I wait. I am being the I'm the villain, I guess. Like, it was just a huge shock for me. And it really did.

It was like a traumatic experience that I couldn't really I couldn't even watch most of the the season.

So, you know, I went on to do bachelor pad and then bachelor paradise where I feel like I got a a the edit that I got was cracked to who I more correct to who I am. Oh for sure. And and so for me it's like, oh that's just water under the bridge. Like we've all moved on like onward and upward. And then to have this show ten years later, like, you know, reburying it just took me back to like the trauma.

It was just like, oh my God. So the anxiety was definitely from just like reliving something that was really hard for me to experience.

Ten years ago when you ended up talking to Chris after the fact, were you like, OK, that didn't go that wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.

I mean, yes and no, because there was a lot of fear that they were going to even edit, which they did. I edited a lot out of what I even said with Chris, so for me it was like. You know, I know that they have turned they turned me into this character on that show that they had to stay consistent with and like, for example, you know, they show my exit on the show of me, like not talking to Brad, getting in the limo, laying down and not saying anything.

And that's not what happened. Like, that's not at all what happened. And Chris even brought it up. And I was like, Chris, no, that's not what happened. I had a really beautiful conversation with Brad. I had an interview in the limo with producers. You guys just cut it out. And even in the interview, they cut that whole thing out, you know? So it's like, oh, my God. Yeah. It's just frustrating when it's like they've created this character that they have to stick to.

And it just it's just lame. You're just kind of like, OK, here we are, whatever.

I mean, yeah, it's funny because I have talked to people that have been on the goat show and they're like, yeah, I talked to Chris for about 45 minutes to an hour and we get five minutes of it. So clearly, yeah, a lot of people are going through the same thing you did where.

Yeah, I understand. They're packing. I get what they I get it. They're packing two seasons into one show.

But like I had introduced my boyfriend and Mike came on and I talked about, you know, so many other things. And it's like you just have to plan on that with the show. It's like it's just a risk. Any time you do anything with that show, there is the risk that you are going that things are going to get edited, you know, and. It's just frustrating, like it's just the way the show works, but, you know, and I worked through a lot of it and again, it's been ten years.

So you're just like on like, let's move on. And so it is a little bit like. Yeah, you're just ready to be done with it, and so anyway, my frustration with my I was so upset that I still had this anxiety around because I've actually been to a lot of therapy and I've worked through a lot of it and I've kind of peeled back a lot of the layers. And it really wasn't until I had this moment where it was like, OK, like, let's accept the parts of ourselves that we are rejecting.

Right. Like and for me it was like, Michelle, maybe you are a villain.

And here I will I will say I was certainly not a villain on that show. But I think the word that the word charges me so much that, like, I had to look at aspects of my life where I have shown up as a villain. And for me it was like, oh, yeah, I can give you a handful of times where I have been a villain.

And I think for whatever reason, by me just looking at it and accepting it, it really softened a lot of my anxiety around it, because I think it's it's more that word that is really triggering for me. Yeah.

Because the word in general villain constitutes something negative. And however you want to put it on this show. Because villains on this show. There are different levels of villainy on this show because you can be a villain and be the girl that is, oh, my God, every girl in the house hated you. You're a giant bitch. And you came across as a giant bitch on TV. Yeah, you're in your edit.

And, you know, I do I do a Sunday Night Live show with Ashley Spidy every Sunday Who Loves You to death. And even this past Sunday when we were, you know, talking about what to expect and she's just like the brother going to show me. I'm, you know, I, I don't think they had to show me, but we she mentioned the fact that Michelle was one of the nicest women in the house. You did everyone's hair and makeup.

And she said the funny thing is anybody who on that season, outside of maybe a couple of people will tell you that Short, Tall was the villain in the house. But Michelle get the villain at it and actually says to this day, she goes, I, I you know, I'm sure Shantal is a great person, but I just did not get along with her and neither did a lot of the other women. She was very mean behind the scenes.

But when you look at her edit it, we never saw any of that. It was the focus on Michelle. And and the other thing about your edit.

Sense of the show, you were technically the villain, but like I said, there's levels of villainy, your level of villainy, watching it back and seeing the clips again on Monday night, it was eerily similar to Olivia's where the things that you said in the edit that was shown of you was more of you just kind of boasting about things you didn't. Right. Right. I'm actually his wife. He's mine. I'm going to be the one that ends up with him in the end.

And Tahiti's practicing making babies like just overconfident statements about yourself.

Where? Within the within the confines of this show, I guess that's considered a villain, but there's certainly people that have acted way worse. Yeah. You know, yeah. And you probably care more about what those women in the house thought of you, not how it came across on TV.

And they all loved you really well. And I think it is. Yeah, it's a good point to bring up. Like, I think, you know, for me, I did leave with a lot of friends.

And and listen, I can promise you, every single girl there had something to say about the other girls. The producers make sure of it like they make sure to ask you questions where you're talking about the other girls and they're looking for that. And my stuff is just the stuff that got aired, you know? So it's like taking it all into context and just remembering like. You know, listen, Shantelle. Yeah, you just aren't going to get along with everyone.

There's always going to be people when you put that many women together. No, you're not going to get along with everyone. And it's just the way life goes.

So I think for me, I took a lot of my edited down version of the show and was able to really look at it and kind of like acknowledge, OK, yes.

Michelle, you are overly confident. You were overly confident. You were very entitled. And I do think, like where I'm at now in life, I'm able to look back and say, you know, it was interesting. Chantelle made a comment that said, you know, Michelle is a girl who knows how to get what she wants. And the truth is, is I I was that was I was able to get a lot of places in life based on my looks.

And you can see that I'm definitely using my my sexuality and my beauty to get ahead. And that is something that I can look at now and say like, whoa, that's not something I'm really proud of. But that was the way I was that I had kind of been showing up in in my world at that time in my life. And, you know, you know, just to give a little bit of a back story, like I had recently just walked away from the religion that I had grown up with my whole life, the Mormon religion.

I had, you know, kind of went through a faith crisis and kind of like stepped into my own, you know, sexuality. And, you know, I'd left my marriage and kind of for the first time in my life, was really feeling like independent and confident and had my own opinions and my own feelings and was really kind of owning my truth.

Or for the years prior, I was kind of like boxed into this like very for me it was a very, like, repressed, you know, place to be living. And so it was kind of like the timing of me going on that show.

I mean, I'd only been drinking alcohol for like maybe a year and not, you know, not very much.

And then you get there and they're pouring all the alcohol. I mean, it was I was very naive is I guess what I'm trying to get at.

And it's it's nice to be able to look back and see that I have evolved so much and come so far and really been able to look at the qualities about myself that I love and the qualities that I don't love and kind of, you know, incorporate them into a better version of myself.

And you're saying you're naive. Goes for a ton of contestants on the show. They yeah. They realize that after the fact that, wow, I was naive to this whole this whole process.

Like, you kind of know what you're getting into, but until you're filming, you really don't know what it is.

Now, how long how long were you out of your how long were you divorced before you went and filmed Brad's season?

It wasn't very long. It's seven, eight, nine, ten. I like four years.

OK, I thought it was a little bit closer. I thought you had. Yeah. Maybe three years. No, it was like three, not four years. Yeah.

OK, and it's and it's a really impressive introspective look on yourself where you say, I mean, I don't think many people can admit that even after the fact. Like, yeah, I, I used my looks and my beauty to get ahead in life. Yeah.

And I, I did it unconsciously. It wasn't, it really, truly wasn't a conscious thing for me at the time, but truly like I. It's embarrassing, but it is true, like I really got a lot of things in my life just based on my looks, I didn't have to work really hard for much in my life.

And, you know, up until up until the show started airing, that's the first time that I had really had to like. Take a hard, long look in the mirror, you know, like it's it's unfortunate because, you know, I look at all the other women and to me, I see a lot of really intellectual and like some depth there. And like, I had some depth, but it was it was all the way. The best way to explain it is I feel like I was living my life from the outside in where now I'm living my life from the inside out.

And that's the best way to describe kind of like me at 30.

And when you saw yourself on the show, it's probably one of the first times that you saw yourself. You look in the mirror because you're watching totally before.

I mean, you had done some acting. I think you had been in a TV movie or something like that. I remember that when that went up, when I found out you were a contestant on the show and people were telling me, they were like, yeah, she does. She does movies and stuff like that. And I had seen that. I was like, yeah, you know, maybe she's just going on the show to, you know, improve her acting career, which was always been a thing, know, you know.

But I think, you know, seeing yourself that way on TV and again with an acting background, I'm sure you were very well aware that, hey, you say things and you do things that draw attention. I'm going to get more camera time if I know do and say no. Did you not see?

Nope, that is not even know. And you've got to go back to that time when The Bachelor is airing.

That was not a thing like, you know, like there was no there was no social media.

There was no Twitter was a barely a thing like even think of the prior seasons. Like there was no one before me that had done that. They had all of a sudden, you know what I mean? Like, I truly I think part of the problem, as I was I'm very comfortable in front of a camera. Yeah. And so for me, it's easy for me to have cameras on me.

And I'm like, I can totally be myself. That was the biggest issue. And then the second one is I was just really sure of myself, like overly confident, like I said. And, you know, I think it's the combination of all of that just made it really easy for me to, like, get turned into kind of like the villain, the obnoxious, you know, because there were plenty of other I mean, I remember writing in my journal as I was flying home that I was going to get the edit of the girl who missed her daughter and was always talking about her daughter.

And I mean, I can't tell you how many times I would sit and cry about Brielle. And like, I just want to figure this out, because if he's not the one for me, I want to go home to my daughter. Like, I'm taking this seriously because I have a daughter at home.

Like, if this isn't going to work, I got to go home, you know?

So for me, it was like every single thing that I was doing around, like my very assertive and, like, proactive approach was like, if this isn't going to work, I need to go home. And so I can't tell you how much of that how frustrating it was that none of that was even shown. Yeah.

And I think it didn't help matters as well, that as we saw last night, I think it was in Costa Rica when you were in the Jacuzzi with Brad where you basically. Questioned him about Shantal and that immediately, but that immediately puts the target of Michelle vs. Shantal and yeah, and even Brad said it like, hey, wait, wait a second. Like, why are you even questioning what's. Yeah. Me keeping Seante all around. And the second someone does that, you're almost done on this show.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

You know, I think, you know, you do it now, you know, you would know not to do that now if you ever. Well, you're not going to on the show again. But I'm just saying you would know. Even when he went on pad and even when he went on paradise, it was a completely different Michelle. I think you realized, OK, I kind of get this game now that they're that they're playing and I'm not going to go after people that way.

And you had what you had great one.

Yeah, but they were more that one liners and Pad and Paradice were a little more humorous the second and third time around.

Right. Right, right, right. Right, right. And we still and honestly, we still don't know to this day why you woke up with a black eye dhuey.

I know. We still don't know. It's just it's like what happened. I can't explain.

It is like is it a sleep thing? It could have been. Could it have been asleep?

I don't know. I don't I'm I'm certain alcohol was involved outside of that.

Like, I have no clue what this is. Have you ever woken up with a black eye since then? No, never. Never. So bizarre.

And I remember it was so weird. And I remember when that episode aired, it was such a like just on there wasn't Twitter and there was or Twitter was in its early stages. There definitely wasn't around back then. So people were talking about it. But it wasn't what they talk about nowadays. Right. That was such a big thing that every. Did you see the girl last night that woke up with a black eye? She must have punched herself like the things that were being said.

I know. It was so good. You're just like, you cannot make this up.

This is like unbelievable that I mean, and it was a legit black eye. It wasn't just like something I could cover with makeup and call it good. It was like a solid black eye. And how do you not remember that? How do you not and and in this house filled with cameras, how has how did nobody capture it? Like, it's just they weren't able to find any footage anywhere of, you know. Yeah, there wasn't any of it, and I just just watching the goat episode back and seeing your edit, I was just like, gosh, this is.

Yeah, in terms of this show, she's the villain, but what she's doing really isn't that big of a deal and it's I guess it's very similar to what Olivia said. It was just overconfidence stuff she was saying. Ben Higgins is her husband. I'm I'm you know, I miss Higgins and stuff like that. It's the same exact thing that you were doing and.

Well, and you have to remember, too, you're being totally provoked by the producers. Yeah.

So the producers are egging you on, provoking it, like encouraging it. There's so much manipulation that goes on with that show that leads you to the way that you're acting like you're groomed, you're literally groomed before you even get on the show.

Yeah. You weren't just doing that for the sake of doing it.

Clearly, we've known throughout the years contestants are either told or things are being withheld from them before they say something.

So they just kind of OK, I'll just give you what you want. I want to go to bed, you know. Yeah, I heard that from people that said they would not let me go to sleep until I gave them something. So I finally I finally gave them it gave in after two hours of sitting in an ATM where I wouldn't give them what they wanted.

Right. You know. Right. You know. Yeah. Trust me, there's obviously a lot we talk about it all the time on this podcast of what goes on behind the scenes. But when I look back at your when when I looked back at your at it again, because I had you know, obviously most people haven't seen Brad's season in a long time.

Yeah.

But just the clips that they showed, it's just like, OK, it was clear Michelle Michelle was more of one of the like, I don't know, funny villains or just boasting villains as opposed to villains who called other women out and called other women bitches and purposely trashing other women in the house. And, you know, yeah, obviously, I love Ashley Sparboe to death and I respect her opinion more so than most people in this franchise. And when she says, look, all the girls loved Michelle, she did ah, she did her hair.

She did her makeup. You know, it's so funny because none of us thought Michelle was going to get the edit that she did.

We were surprised when the show aired, what we were what we were looking at.

Yeah. Because we didn't see it when we were there. And yeah.

You know, you know, the group date stuff where other women are kissing him and they have you make sure make sure they have a camera on Michelle pulling her hair over her face so she doesn't have to watch. Yeah. Brad making out with Chantelle.

It's like yeah, it's comedy. It's it's more fun than anything like that is like it right now.

But when you when you were in Costa Rica, that was the last that's where you got eliminated.

Right. Costa Rica. Yep. I know. Anguilla angle as well. So yeah. You were at a point where it was down to the final five, which was Emily, Shantal, Ashley, Shantelle and you and yes, the three of you, Sean Tall and Ashley have the Sports Illustrated swimsuit.

Yeah. Group date, which was very sexy and very provocative at the time.

Yeah. But I still think that. I think most people that didn't know the spoilers back then thought that you were going to make it to hometowns and I'm sure you did. So when you didn't get to hometowns, obviously, you said that your exit was a lot more than what was shown. But tell us exactly what more the conversation with Brad and what you did say in the limo.

Gosh, if I just remember thanking Brad and he was like, Michelle, you are such a.

He was very kind and very like I and I and and I remember him bringing up my dad because I had told opened up about my dad having cancer.

And he was very considerate of like that. My dad was. Home with cancer and like, he just didn't see us. You know, progressing and so it didn't feel right to keep me around and I mean, the conversation was really. Because you have to understand, like we had there were so much more like it wouldn't have made sense if the show aired our conversation because the way that they had edited me was so contradictory to like anything we were saying to each other.

So it was almost like they had to edit it out. Otherwise people would have been confused because he was very considerate and kind and thoughtful and and and so for me, it was a relief. It was like again. If if this isn't going to work out, and I think he knew, like I had made that such a big point, like if this isn't going to work out, I need to get home to my daughter. I need to go home.

And I think he was very respectful of, like, burial at home. My dad having cancer. Like, I don't see this going any further, like.

Yeah, it was it was exactly what I needed to hear for me to just be like, OK, got it, it's time to go. I'm not going to keep trying to like I just could never really get. Like past this kind of there was like this guard up all the time with him and I just couldn't quite get there with him. And for me, it was like a relief on my end, too. For me, it was relieving because it was like, yeah, I can't imagine taking him to my family right now.

I don't even feel like I know him.

And when you went in the car and laid down, like you said, there was more that was shown. But that was the first thing you did was later. No, not first.

No, no, no, no. I got in the car. I did the interview. I get really, really carsick.

And for me, like, I did the interview and I started getting sick. I'm like, you guys, I'm so sorry I have to lay down or I'm going to throw up like I get really carsick. So, um, yeah, it was after the interview I'd lay down and. And then I think I got back up, I'm like, OK, I can finish this and and but I think they were disappointed cause I wasn't crying and there weren't any tears.

And it was like I wasn't giving them what they wanted, you know, I was just because I was sick, it's like I'm going to vomit.

All right. I want to talk about. We probably talked about it three years ago when you were on the podcast, but briefly hit on coming off that. Then you go to bachelor pad season two. Yeah, how how nervous were you? And again, you knew you said this, you know, watching the show back and you even couldn't watch it at times. It was very traumatic. So how were you convinced that going on bachelor pad was the right choice to make?

Yeah, I mean, it took a lot of convincing.

And I eventually got to this place where I kind of had my little list of things that I needed in return and. They were able to show up on their end with that and I at the end of the day, it was my dad who convinced me to do it and was like, Michelle, I think you should, you know, because I was, you know, again, my dad was was dealing with colon cancer and but they were able to fly.

They flew my parents and my daughter out every weekend we filmed.

So I never went more than, like, five days without seeing any of them.

And then. A lot of it was like a gut feeling and not wanting that to be the end of, like what people saw of me the last time that you had on me.

Yeah. And I think, like, it was a huge risk.

But, you know, the producers convinced me that, like, it wouldn't make sense to keep editing you that way, like you want an arc in the character. And we're not going to show that.

Like they were all very like, we're so sorry you got like in anyway. I'm not that I trusted any of them. It was kind of more and. I wanted to do it, first of all, and my dad kind of giving me his blessing on it, that made me think like, OK, I'll do it. And for those that don't remember from, I think the time I could be wrong on the timing, but from the time filming ended on bachelor pad to to when the finale rolled around is when your dad passed.

Right. It didn't happen yet while you were filming. Yeah, it wasn't, you know, OK. Yeah. Yeah, I know.

Was crazy because I remember obviously at that finale is when it was announced that you and Graham had given you the flowers on the finale. Yeah.

So yeah, that was that was tough for you. I know. But probably also in a good light because no. One, your dad encouraged you to do it and then you did do it and so much good. Yeah.

I came out of it so much good came up from it. I mean the biggest thing would be like bringing awareness to colon cancer and, you know, being able to go on and on and do some charity work and bring awareness to the importance of getting your colonoscopy, which is it's funny. Mike is getting his tomorrow. Oh, he just turned 50. And I'm like, all right, we're doing this.

Yeah. Yeah. And just like the relationships I made on bachelor pad, like with Gram, I mean, he really was the greatest blessing in my life. And he, you know, the relationship that we had formed on that show was really special and still is to this day. He's such an amazing man and all their friendships I made on that show were just really.

Beautiful, and it was just, yeah, I'm really glad I did it. Which then brings us to. Bachelor in Paradise, Season one, where they brought you on. For Paradice, season one, clearly it was another show. It was a show where you had nothing to base. Previous seasons. Yeah, like it was the first season of it, so you didn't know what to expect. I actually had a couple of weeks ago, I had markelle on the podcast and.

Oh, nice. We we spoke about that because you were one of the first people that was involved with MARKELLE when I think. Yeah. You were his first date or. Yeah, he was or whatever.

So we talked about that a little bit and but yeah, it was a show where you guys all went down there and I'm sure they were selling you a bill of goods before the show, like, oh, it's got to be so much fun and it's going to be yessica with this resort not telling you you're going to be human as fuck and you're going to be having crabs, are you, the whole time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was it wasn't actually, you know, quote unquote paradise down there.

The renditions weren't the greatest. But to do that show to convince you to do that one, how did they do that?

It just I think for me it was a timing thing like where I was at in my life. You know, I had been on this on these shows and I had kind of dated a few different guys since then. And there was there was it was a really hard to date, guys, because they didn't they were always very threatened by the show and threatened by it was just I don't know. I think there was this part of me that's like, gosh, it would be so awesome to meet someone who's been through the same thing I've been through, so that, like, have been on the show and experienced kind of like being in the limelight and the same thing and getting attention.

And because it just eliminates a whole level of like insecurity for, you know, like it's just an uncomfortable thing to have to start. I don't know. I don't know how to how to break it down. So for me, it was like it would be so great to meet another guy who's been through with the things I've been through and who was, you know, so I just happened to be in a place in my life where I was like, yes, I make up for that.

Like, I'm interested.

And then obviously that you left that show in a relationship, that relationship. Yeah.

Continued on to couples.

Marriage boot camp. Boot camp. Yeah. Which was. I got to tell you, Michel, watching that one was because I it because I felt like I knew you at that point watching you. I mean, I knew you when you went on on Paradise, but I. Watching Mary's boot camp and watching you on that, I cringed, I was like, this is oh, this is such it was brutal. It was not the show for, you know, it was well.

And it I mean, maybe it helped inspire. And I learned a lot through that show, but like it all it did was just expose how like unhealthy Cody and I were like it just was like this magnifying glass on like how.

Messed up our relationship.

I mean, it was so hard and it's so interesting, like, I think again, like I really Cody was such a lover and he was so sweet and like, I think like I really needed someone like Cody at that time in my life where it was just like, I love this girl. And he was like shouting it from the rooftops. And he just made me feel really special. And like there was this part of me that really, like, wanted something like that, but.

I was incredibly stubborn and so was he, and there was just a lot of emotional like ups and downs in our relationship that made it really difficult to feel safe for either of us. And so going on that show was just like. The worst decision we could have made, truly, it was it was that was quite an interesting show. Yeah. You know, there are couples from The Bachelor franchise that went on that show that you look at it and you were like, you know, because Ashley and JP went on it, Trista Ryan went on it.

And you don't think those couples would go on a show like that? Because it seemed like, you know, the images. Those couples are perfect, like, wow.

Yeah. Actually, JP are just great. Yeah. And same with with Tristan Ryan. And actually, when they went on those shows, I don't I don't think I watched Ashley Japes. I remember watching Justin Ryan's and everybody in the house would basically make fun of them, like, why are they here? They're like the perfect couple and you know.

Yeah, yeah. Small issues, communication, stuff or whatever. But it wasn't clear to some of the other drama that these other couples had with cheating allegations and all this stuff.

Yeah, I can't remember. Who are the other couples on your season?

I will remember what you tell me about Harry Reid was on. That's right. Yeah. And. I don't even remember. Oh, so you don't keep in touch with any of those couples like, you know? Oh, no.

And I try to pretend that that never happened. I've tried to just pretend that was just a bad dream.

It was the one thing I learned, the one thing I realized from that show that I hadn't that I didn't know because the only reality TV I'd done was with The Bachelor franchise. Yeah. And like I remember after we were done filming, like Terreri and I got into this big fight and after we were done filming the like, I had brought that fight up or something. And the girls were like. The producers told us to pick a fight with you, and I was like, wait, what?

And they're like, yeah, we needed to like they made it sound like I was stupid for thinking that that was a real fight. Like it was the first time that I was like, OK, reality TV is totally different from The Bachelor.

Like, The Bachelor uses manipulation and they messed with your head where like other reality shows are straight up. Just like you guys. We need drama because we need ratings. So figure it out.

And for the first time, I was like. Oh, I bet. OK, like I made that distinction between how most reality shows work, like The Real Housewives, all that stuff, it's all very like the producers will just come out and say, if we don't have drama, we're not going to get another season, you know? And so they all just fake the drama where that's just not how The Bachelorette works.

Yeah, no, it's a little more mind fucking if that's what you want to call 100 percent, 100 percent is they'll say like, hey, what do you think?

What do you think about so-and-so getting the one on one day today? For sure, you know, but that's not directly coming out and saying, you know what? What did you trash the fact that so-and-so went on the one on one date today? Yeah, it's totally the way they frame the question, essentially.

How long after?

Max boot camp, did you meet Mike? I'm like like I want to stay like a year and a half.

OK, so you've been with Mike since 2001, 2016, OK?

It's yeah, it's funny because when I had you on the podcast was right around the beginning of 2017, so you were fairly new into your relationship with and I remember asking you or maybe you just said it and you offered it up in the podcast about like, look, I know nothing about golf, but this guy this guy's great.

You're like, I should go.

I couldn't tell you the first clue. The funny thing now is I while I watch your Instagram story, I know here you are at the races political.

You're at the range.

You're playing with him on the ball.

I'm so happy for you.

I'm so I know I got into it and I know it's just been recently, but I do love golf now.

It is it is a very relaxing sport. And you will. Yeah, you will be happy to know this. Yeah. I put my I put my clubs away about ten years ago when I was just like, I, I just got too frustrated.

It's a very frustrating sport, as you know.

And about ten years ago, I put my clubs away and just recently in the last two or three weeks, I decided to take it back up again, bought a whole new set, bought a whole new job.

So I'm so proud of you. You know what I find it to be? So it's like a form of meditation to just go hit balls. Oh, yeah. It's like I'll put my earphones on, listen to a podcast and just hit balls out of the range and.

And yeah, Mike, Mike is always working on his swing and his work, and I'm like, I might as well just figure out how this sport works.

So, yeah, I'm not much of a. I'm not much of a bucket list guy in terms of grand things I want to do in my life, however, you know, smaller things, things I'd like to go see, games I'd like to attend, but I now have a small, small bucket list thing. And maybe when covid is over or something happens and we can start traveling again, whatever I one of my small bucket list things now is I want to play with you and Mike one time.

Oh my gosh. Let's make it happen. I so want to play. I mean I'll be I'm sure I'll be nervous as hell playing with a former Masters champion, but let's do it.

It would be so fun. I would love to just play around and just have fun with you guys out there. If I ever come visit, I'm bringing my sticks and we're going to.

We're doing it. We're doing it.

I love that I, I told you at the time, I don't know if you remember this. I told you in that first podcast that. The guy who caddied for Mike when he won the Masters, Brennan is someone that I know out here in Dallas that I've played around with before out here in Dallas. So he's he's a guy that lives actually somewhat close to me. No way.

That's great. Yeah, he's the best. Yeah. Brennan is a great guy. I can't I think he's on I think he's on Gary Woodland's bag now.

Yeah, he's on Gary Woodman's bag. He's he is one of the greatest guys. I love Brennan.

Yeah. No, Brennan is is a great guy. And, you know, obviously, Mike, turning you say he's turning 50, so that means he's now going to compete on the senior tour.

Yep. Yep. His first tournament is next week. And we are so bummed because there's no spectators allowed, not even girlfriends or wives.

So and I thought they were at least allowing family. I thought the I know they're not.

So it really sucks. Right. Know where's the where's the tournament next week.

It's in Flint, Michigan. OK, wow. I didn't, I didn't I know.

I thought they were allowing I, I know it's such a bummer because it's outside and you're like, come on, even if we're wearing masks like so I mean I get it. They're trying to be really careful.

And I mean, we're we're grateful that he even can go out and play.

So, um. Yeah.

So, yeah, it's kind of a big time in his life right now because he's kind of embarking into this next tour, which is going to be so fun and and he's so ready for. So that starts next week.

And he can still either qualify possibly for PGA events. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think being a master, I think he's I think Masters is lifetime exemption. So he can always play in the Masters. Yeah. My mistake.

He's always yup. He's always at the Masters which is this year. It's in November I think. Yeah. Yeah.

So that'll be crazy. And it's I know, I know it's kind of it's weird that my life is turned into like golf, this golf ball.

But it's been so amazing. And Mike is just the most unbelievable human being. I mean, I cannot believe that I got this lucky. I mean, everything I've been through in my life, I'm just like, oh, my gosh, I would go through all of it again to end up with this man. He is the most amazing human being. I'm very lucky.

How did you how did you meet Mike again? So we I was walking into a restaurant with some friends and he was walking out with some friends, like they just got done eating. And so he saw me and the group of guys that he was with new knew who I was and had a mutual friend that knew me. And Mike's like, I want to go out with that girl. So they reached out to a mutual contact and basically just lined up.

So, um, and from the first the first date, it's just been this easy, organic, natural, like, slow progression that has been so healthy and and like. So beautiful, and I don't think that I would have appreciated how like how much I value a healthy relationship if I hadn't been through so many dysfunctional relationships prior. So it's just the timing was perfect. And, yeah, that was over four years ago.

Wow. OK, I know.

And now we live together and our daughters are calling each other sister. And in fact, on our four year anniversary, Mike got down on a knee and gave me a ring and said, Will you be my forever girlfriend?

And I was like, yes. So we don't plan on getting married. We have both been married before. And it's just not something that we are interested in doing in our lives. But we are. Fully like committed to each other, want to grow old together, want, you know, got you to raise grandbabies together. Are we just in our life right now like marriage? Marriage isn't is not a hell. Yes, Mike is a hell.

Yes, marriage is not. Hell, yes. So we're honoring that.

And one last thing about Mike and golf. He. He's dealt with a lot of health issues, right, is that and that's why over the last few years, hasn't he been well, he had a he had an elbow injury that happened back.

Gosh, I don't remember one maybe. I don't even want to guess I don't know before I met him, and so he had to do a lot of rehabbing, but then, you know, he went through a divorce and, you know, that was really difficult. He kind of just. Yeah, but it was kind of one thing after another. But he's doing really good now, like, he's playing great golf and he's ready to. Yeah.

All right, just get some wins, just tell him if and when I play around, I want the guys, I want 10, I want 10 strokes aside, basically that's what I say.

I'm going to be good when I think about it. When I think about it, 10 strokes aside, that's probably I mean, if you if he shoots even or under, I got to shoot low 90.

It depends on what course you play, but I know I would need probably 10 strokes side.

OK, yeah. All right.

I want to I want to get into the most recent news, which, gosh, you know, when you posted what you did about Merial for the first time, I mean, obviously nobody knew until that until that happened. I mean, I can't tell you.

I mean, the outpouring of love for you and Brielle when it came down was, you know, you you saw it. You experience. Yeah. It was amazing.

Can you. I mean, it's probably hard to relive, but as much as you can, can you tell us that that day, what went down, how you found out and exactly the first time you saw Brielle, what shape she was in?

Yeah, so so it was on a Sunday evening. And, um, you know, Bria longboards on her dad's house and in his neighborhood, they have it's like a flat neighborhood where Mike and I live. It's kind of in the at the base of a canyon. There's lots of hills. And she you know, we've been quarantining we were bored. She's like, can we go get my longboard?

I want to longboard over here.

So we drove and got her longboard board and it was just like this very like this conversation of like Braille. You have to wear your helmet. And she said, no, mom, I don't need to wear my helmet. I'm a professional long border. I'm like, no, you're not a professional. Like, she's like, Mom, come on. I'm like, no, you have to wear it well. She ended up going out by herself without a helmet and her first run like down the driveway, then down this hill and she crashed and she was laying there unconscious for 13 minutes before my neighbors, who happened to be on a walk, found her laying and in the gutter, basically up against a dumpster.

And so it had been about, you know, you know, 15 minutes since she had left. And I went to go look out the window to see if I could see her. And I saw some commotion going on at the end of the street, like kind of a ways down. I was like, oh, man, debris like break her ankle as she did. She sprained something. So I got right in my car and just drove down thinking I was just going to take her straight to the emergency room.

Well, I drove down there and my neighbor was on the phone with nine one one and she was unconscious and there was, you know, blood all over. And she was it was the most traumatic thing I've ever experienced in my life. And it was just absolutely horrific. And within, you know, minutes, the ambulance came. And I'll just never forget the ambulance driver saying, you know, where should we take her? And the guy said, we got to take her to Primary Children's.

And the other driver said, do we have enough time? And because it's a little bit further of a drive, and I just remember thinking, oh, my God, like it was just your worst nightmare as a parent. And so. Yeah, we got her to Primary Children's Hospital, where she was in a coma for 10 days. And, you know, during those 10 days, there were blood clots and she wasn't responding to certain medications and the pressure, we couldn't get under control.

And it was it was just this all during covid. So it was like you you couldn't have two parents are at the same time. I couldn't have anyone with me. And it was it was the most awful experience to just be looking at your daughter completely unconscious, like in a coma, hooked up to every single I mean, on life support and just wondering if she was going to make it. And so. Yes, the support and the outpouring of love and concern for her really is what got us through all this.

And after a week of her still being in a coma, I remember we decided to do a group prayer. And, um, I asked, you know, my followers to pray as well. And at four o'clock on that Sunday, thousands and thousands and thousands of people prayed for her. And that is when things started turning up. That's when we started getting her and the pressure in her brain under control. And that's when she slowly started coming out of the coma.

So it was like, I truly believe so strongly in the power of prayer. And I saw it firsthand with my my daughter. And I just will forever be grateful for this community, this bachelor nation for, you know, the bachelor family, for everyone who shared her story. And the beautiful thing is it has brought so much awareness to the importance of wearing a helmet. And I I mean, Brielle, I truly believe Braille has saved numerous lives by going through what she went through.

And, you know, now we we have really been proactive in in sharing her story so that people will remember that it is so important to wear that stupid helmet. You just have to wear it. You got to put it on. And as adults, as children, all of us, you get you have one brain like you've got to protect it and it is not worth it. So we've learned a lot. We've grown a lot. And Brielle is currently doing amazing.

You know, it's only been a few months since her accident, let's say April, May. Yeah, it'll be almost yeah. It's been two and a half months. And she's tested out of all of her therapies. And she is she's doing really, really good. She's still got some short term memory issues and some focusing issues that are just normal. I mean, it's going to take up to a year for her brain to fully heal. Yeah.

So we are eternally grateful for all the support and love.

Yeah, no, I mean, it was it was a frightening time because we could only follow along on what you were giving us on on Instagram and what you're and what your ex-husband was giving us on Instagram as well and. When you first posted, the first thing you posted was the picture of her, it wasn't just someone lying in a hospital bed with, you know, a breathing tube. I mean, it was right. It seemed like she had something going in everywhere and, yeah, hooked up to a lot of stuff.

And we were like, wow. How what was the like the main thing that she was in for? What was her biggest injury? A bleeding on the blow? Was that what it was? Yep. So so that so she smashed the right side of her head on the pavement and the and it cracked her skull. And then the pressure of that pushed her brain from the right side to the left side. So it bruised the left side of her brain too.

So there was blood on the brain. A fractured skull. Yeah, a severe it was a severe TBI. So the pressure, however she fell, must have just been like so much impact and so much momentum that it just. Pushed her brain like practical school, pushed her brain from one side to the other side, so there was damage on both sides of the brain. So because she obviously doesn't remember anything since probably right before, but nobody saw it happened, that was the determination that she somehow fell off the longboard, maybe she hit a rock or something.

I think that she might have hit a manhole. We actually have some of the footage on our Vivint camera. I don't I won't look at it. Yeah. And apparently you can't really make it out, but like, you can kind of see where abouts she fell and there's a manhole right there. So we think she was like going really fast because it was a pretty steep hill and then hit the manhole and just like. Yeah, fell forward and so it was she didn't hit herself on a car, it was on the curb.

Yep, yep, yep. On the pavement. I know pavement now and it's crazy.

Like, she didn't have any other injuries. She had a scrape on the right side of her, like it's like her head took all of the fall. Which is so weird, I don't know how it happened. So here's a question that I have. Is she back longboarding or is she just like I'm done?

No. She says that she will get on the longboard again, but she has to have two feet on the ground for a year after a brain injury. You have to be incredibly careful because if you were to get another brain injury, it would be like really bad. So she yeah, she's not allowed to be on a longboard for at least a year, OK, but she thinks that she'll get back on it. And I'm like, oh, I don't know, man.

I mean, it would it would it would almost be, you know, over overcoming a fear. I mean, people to get injured in a sport and then they go back to it. I mean. I know.

I know clearly she would she would do it and and and wear and wear and wear a helmet.

But just to get back on it just I would think the fear of I know.

I know. I don't think I could do it. But we'll see. I mean, it'll be interesting to see. You know that the nice thing is she does not remember anything, anything about it. She does not remember the day before the accident. She doesn't remember she has very few memories of being in the hospital after she came out of her coma like that. All still is a total blur, you know, so she really doesn't have. And any recollection of it at all, so I don't know if it will trigger any sort of PTSD or not, but I'm hoping that we just avoid the longer altogether take up golf, really just.

I know.

I know she has been taking up golf and I'm like, God bless. Yeah. It just I think one of the things that just one of the amazing things about the whole thing and I even texted you this after she was pretty much out of the woods, was for everything that we were seeing through your ex-husband and what you had posted.

And then for the first thing that I saw of her being healthy, which was I think her walking down the street of your street and just everybody coming out of their house and waving at her. And I was just like, I don't know what I was expecting. I knew that she had, you know, a brain injury. I guess I was expecting maybe a limp or somehow walking. I was just like, oh, she looks like nothing happened to her.

And it's amazing that we saw her on the goat show.

We saw her on a couple of your Instagram videos. She just seems like nothing happened.

It's great. Now, it is the most miraculous experience of my life. And I truly attribute so much of that to the prayers I'm telling you. And I think this kid, it really does have a big purpose in life. And I think, you know, she is going to be really, really beautiful to watch her and see what she does and how she takes this and becomes stronger. And it's just so cool to be her mom. It feels like such an honor to be mothering someone like her in this day and age.

You're just like, wow, this kid has a lot of power. And yeah, I'm really proud of her.

And how old how old is real now and what grade 15. So she's 15, so she will still be a sophomore next year. Yep. Sophomore.

OK, yeah. I think this is it's amazing what has happened. We saw on the show and God seeing her again on Monday show the goat I so I'm like, first off you guys are you guys are sisters.

Like you could easily be so weird.

It is crazy how much she looks like, you know. And I mean, I just remember Brielle as being, you know, little Brielle. I remember the way I know.

I remember the one time you guys were in a. A parking lot at the you guys were shopping one time and you FaceTime me and you said Reale had a question for me, I hear what the question was.

But I remember Brielle, that Brielle, like, she just seemed so young that I know I know this.

And I didn't realize until we saw Emily and and Ricky and Ricky in the exact same age.

Little Ricky's a little bit younger. Oh, she is OK. I thought Ricky was Ricky's 14 embryo's 15. But they're close. OK, they're close.

Yeah. Yeah. I just. God, she's so grown up. It's unbelievable.

I know it's such a trip. I mean, 10 years has flown by. It has been. And I'm about ready to turn 40 in September. I'll be 40. Yeah. And there's this huge part of me that's like, you know, as annoying as this was to have to relive the show from ten years prior, it actually has brought a lot of healing. And exactly when I needed it, like I'm so ready to step into my 40s and put all of this behind me and just kind of approach my forties with more self love and more self acceptance and be able to look back and see how how naive and how, you know, how far I've come since then and how proud I am of the woman that I've kind of evolved into.

And and so I'm ready to like bring on the 40s, bring on my 40s, man. Yeah.

And Michelle, you don't you might be turning 40 in September. You don't look anywhere near 40.

Oh, my gosh. You're so nice. Yeah, no, I'm ready for it. It's funny that a lot of people like our I'm so ready for my 40s. I feel ready for my 40s. I feel like. Yeah, I'm ready to kind of just step into that next era of my life with a little bit more softness and compassion and, you know. Yeah, and thank you. Thank you.

The Botox helps to. Two quick things before we wrap up here. Number one, the first time we did the podcast, you told an unbelievable story that people remember to this day where you broke the news about you had just gotten reacquired. I don't know what the word is reacquainted with your son that you had given up for adoption when you were to tell everyone where you were.

That is now. And if you start with him.

Yes. So, yeah, in 2016, I. Was reconnected, in fact, the reason we were reconnected was because of marriage, bootcamp, that stupid show. Yeah, that is the one good thing that came from it. And. We were able to reconnect, so when I was 16 years old, I placed a little boy for adoption and had always hoped that we'd find each other, but wanted to be very sensitive to him and his family and his adoptive parents and come to find out they had they had followed me my whole life.

They found out my last name and had followed me and watched me on the shows. And in marriage boot camp, I opened up about him because I knew by the time that show aired that he would be 18. And so I opened up about it. And one of the drills that we did and it was like this very emotional kind of like conversation about it. And his parents saw it. And ironically, that same time he had been asking about me.

And so his parents had him down and said, this is your birth mom. And if you want to meet her, we'd love to help support that. So, um, yeah, they reached out and I was able to meet him in person after. Yeah. 18 years and. Gosh, I can't begin to tell you how beautiful it was, and so now he lives in Utah and he has his adoptive parents have been so kind to me.

And, you know, he comes over for Christmas and Thanksgiving and we try to get together as much as possible. This quarantine has made it hard because his birth mom or his adoptive mom has some health issues. So she has to be very careful. But I and then he just spent some time in Japan and he's just as incredible like young man. I mean, he's an adult, but you're just like, oh, my gosh, this this man.

That I had prayed for, to reconnect with and to have him back in my life has been one of the most beautiful, um, yeah. Things that has happened to me for sure. And he's just an incredible, incredible man.

Well, that's great. And I remember when you told that story had a lot of people that reacted to that and said when they heard you talk about that on the podcast, that they they cried listening to the podcast.

It was really it was it was a bizarre story. One final thing I want to bring up, I, I think we probably would have heard this if it was. But I just want to ask you about it and see what your thoughts were.

Yeah, I don't watch the franchise, but I do hear that a Real Housewives of Salt Lake is starting on.

Yes. Yes. Were you is happening. Were you approached?

I don't think you're doing it, but I'm not doing it. But yes, I was approached. You guys were approached about this. Yeah, I was. I am I am like the opposite of like what? A Real Housewife. It's like my interview with them was very much like, listen, I practiced meditation. I, I own maybe a handful of things that are designer. I'm like, you know, I was very honest with them, you know, because it was kind of just like.

We're talking to a few people there. They had an original cast and then something happened with one of the cast members and they were considering adding someone else.

And so they they reached out and it was just this very uncomfortable conversation of like, yeah, I don't know that this is going to work for it or, you know, I mean, I would be the girl that's like staging everything and telling everyone to just like deep breathe and meditate through it. And like, I'm not.

I'm not a housewife. Yeah, yeah, I but I do have friends that are on the show that are amazing women and I think it will be a really great series. I'm excited. I'm really excited for it to air. I think it's going to air this fall.

I was going to say I'm assuming they completed all filming before covid, OK? Yup, they did. So they did. All right. So we'll probably see what's happening.

It is happening and I, I'm here for it. I'm excited to watch. I mean, I think. I think it'll be good TV. I know if you do Deep's, I'm sure if you do deep searches, not even deep but deep searches on the Internet, blogs that cover that stuff, I'm sure somebody has revealed who the women are that are on that cast. But I don't think.

Yeah, I'm sure. Bravo. Yeah. I don't think there's been any sort of like official official announcement, but. Yeah. Yeah. And interesting. I know. I can't wait to watch you.

Yeah. This is, this is, this is going to be. Oh I think, I actually think I know. I heard. Who won. Oh, wait a sec, we'll talk about this off air. Yeah, I think I think I heard one of them was OK. Anyway, Michelle, thank you so much.

Thank you, Steve. Thank you for being so supportive and wonderful to talk to me. And Brielle, during all about you were just such a great support. And you always happen. And I just really value that and appreciate it.

Oh, thank you. And I can anything I can do to to help out in any way, you know, I'll be here for you.

And I wish you I wish I wish you still through your your charity event.

I know. I know. I went to that like how much work those were, you know, those were that was a I mean this wasn't just like, hey, let's get together for a mixer like this thing where I know you did a really good job with both of those.

Thank you.

I want to say that was like twenty one. What, a 2012, 2013 summer event.

Yeah, maybe like 2013. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, yeah. Those were those were a blast.

But you know, you're so sweet. But thanks again for coming on and. Hey, Steve, thank you.

We will obviously be in touch and make sure wish Mike my best and tell him he better get to. Thank you.

I'm coming. Yes. Let's make it happen. Cross that off your list. All right. Okay. Steve, talk to you later, Mike. Thank you so much to Michelle for that, I've been friends with Michelle going back, gosh, eight years now. 2012, 2013, whenever those. Events she put on in L.A. for colon cancer, I went back to back years, the first year was mostly her women from Brad's season ending. The second year, I remember, was the women from Sean's season who had just finished because it was like around.

April ish. Yeah, it was like April, so the bachelor season from that year had just ended airing. And the new bachelorette season had just started filming, so, yeah, the first the second year there was. With Shawn's girl, because I remember meeting Lesley Murphy there and quite a few others, and that was I know that was the first time I met Leslie and I remember that because I brought it up in the podcast with her because that was the funny story.

I remember Leslie Murphy at that event asked me because Desiree Season was filming at that time. Hey, where are they going for Desiree season? I'm like, oh, well, I've heard I've heard this place and I've heard this place. And Leslie asked me and then come to find out, remember, on Desiree, season four or five of her best friends got to travel out to one of our locations to meet all of her men.

And and when Leslie came on the podcast years ago, I grilled her about, like, were you asking me because you already knew where you were going and you wanted to see if I knew or you were trying to get an answer out of me, like, hey, where am I going to be going later on when I meet up with that?

So and I don't even remember what her answer was, but I do remember that conversation and meeting a lot of Sean's girls that season at Michelle's charity event. But, yeah, I've I've always I'll always champion for Michelle. And you heard her in that interview. She's great. Very open and honest. I think that's the first time she really ever admitted.

How she used her looks to get where she was in life at that time that she first appeared on on Brad season, I had never heard her say that before. So very introspective of her and very brave to admit that most people can't admit that even though they know that's what they're doing and they use their looks and to get men and to get things that they want from men. Not many women admit that so good on her, she was great. I hope you all enjoyed that.

Thanks again for listening. Please write, subscribe and review and Apple podcasts. As for the beginning of this podcast, like I said, I'm not going to spend any more time than I need to anymore on the podcast. It's over and done with.

I gave my thoughts last week, spent 10 minutes on it this week. You got a couple of sentences and that shows you where I am. I'm moving on. I'm sure he is too. So thank you very much for tuning in. I really appreciate it. Back next podcast. All 193 from Money. I'm reality. Steve, thank you all for tuning in. We'll talk to you next week.