You are listening to the Reality Steve podcast with your host Reality Steve. He's got all the latest info. And behind the scenes, Juice and Claire's upcoming season of The Bachelorette and interviewing some of your favorite reality stars. Now, here's a reality, Steve. What is up, everybody, welcome to podcast number 194. I'm your host reality. Steve, thank you all for tuning in. A great show for you today.

One of the first authors I've had on my book and on my podcast in a while, Kate Stayman, London, the author of One to Watch, a book that you've heard me promote a little bit on my Instagram live with Ashley Sparboe. If some of you were able to join the Zoome call last Tuesday that we did with Kate and with a lot of you people that were just interested in talking about, it was part of Ashley's book club, that was a lot of fun.

Really get into it with Kate Steam in London in a minute. All right, there's obviously a lot to talk about in regards to bachelorette land, I am recording this open Wednesday afternoon, our mid-evening, so stuff might break between the time I record this and the time you listen to it and it posts on Thursday morning. So just know that I'm recording this part of the podcast on Wednesday. The day before you listen to this president, you listen on a Thursday when I release it.

But so much is going on right now. And there aren't a lot of definitive answers, so the first thing I want to get out of the way is what I tweeted out yesterday in regards to Claire and the hate that she's getting for a lot of people coming after her. Look, if you want to come after because you don't like her or you don't like her being getting a fifth chance or stuff like that, that's not what I'm arguing. That's an opinion that you're allowed to have.

Clearly, what I was trying to make in my Twitter thread yesterday was the people that are coming after her for her tweet back in June telling the guys to respect the process and respect her, you know, respect the rules and whatnot. And because it's on Twitter, I can't just sit here and. Right out, every single thing that I'm talking about, but I thought I made it pretty clear, I guess some people were a little still confused. Basically, I'm talking about.

When Claire was talking about respect the rules, it was more about, look, don't go promoting yourself before you're even on the season, because this is we're in weird times. This is the first time that a cast was released before. Well, it was released and then there was covid that shut everything down, so they were able to go back to their normal lives. Usually the cast is release and filming starts a couple of days later. These guys phones are off, these women's phones are off, and there's nothing they can do.

Claire was clearly talking about Matt James having a cameo account and putting the word bachelor on it when he hadn't even appeared on the show yet. So there was that. And so that's where it gets a little bit tricky with wording. My whole point was she's getting a lot of hate and a lot of shit because of like these so-called rules, like, oh, my God, she broke the rules. She was totally talking to a guy before the show.

It's it's like, look, there are no rules when it comes to this show. Let's be honest. There are basic fundamentals of what the show is about, but there are no rules, and if there are, they're broken every single season, usually by because production allows those rules to be broken.

You know, if Claire wanted to talk to Claire, Claire wanted to talk to Claire, if Claire wanted to talk to Dale pre-season. It's not like every other bachelor or bachelorette before her stuck by the rules and abided by that and Claire didn't, so that makes her a rule breaker.

None of the other 39 previous leads had the ability to do that. It's because of covid covid shut everything down, made this season a complete shit show. It's not going to be the same bachelorette that we're used to. It's going to be very different this season. So Claire decided to take the show into her own hands.

And it's almost like, look. If you're sick of production constantly, what have we heard over the years from fans?

Oh, production does this production makes you do this, which they do here is someone essentially empowering herself and making it like, no, they're not going to direct me on what to do. I'm going to tell them this is how I want it.

And they cirilli they clearly negotiated something because she is now with Dale and engaged if you are to believe the report, which I believe to be true. And ended her own bachelorette season after two weeks, if anything, should she be applauded for this? Why does she be getting hate? Because here's where here's where I think you could give her hate if after two weeks she did this with Dale, got engaged and the whole building was shut down and everyone was out of a job, these people that thought they had a job for 11, four or five or six weeks out of a job after two weeks, that's not what happened.

You made the producer scramble. You made them think they get a new bachelorette in there. And Tatia tastes seemingly going to take over, have her own bachelorette season. So win win for everyone around the season starts airing in five weeks. And this is all any entertainment site is talking about. This is all the blaze on social media right now. That's all anyone's talking about, is this show and what's going on. And oh, my gosh, Rihanna ends there and Becca's there and all that stuff, which we'll get to in a second.

So if anything, this should be an empowering thing for Claire, I don't know why she's getting hate. I understand that a lot of the traditionalists on the show just think, oh, this should be about meeting one guy and give someone a chance and stuff like that. Look, she was put in a position that no other bachelor lead has been able to be in before.

She was able to know guys on her cast before her season started filming. She knew 32 of them back in March. She came home clearly. I think she did an interview on Rachel and Becca's podcast and said, yeah, I've looked them up. I'd be stupid not to.

But now I think the fact that we know that she's engaged to Dale after two weeks of filming, clearly she was speaking to with Dale preshow and it was more I don't think it was just, hey, can't wait to see you on my season.

And he responds back. Yeah. Looking forward to meeting you, too.

I it's clear that they were talking and things got a little bit deep. And if you read some of the stories that are out on on People or US Weekly, it's been hinted at that Claire was smitten on night one and she went into the show basically already in love with Dale, and no one else stood a chance. And it basically wasn't fair to the other guys to have Claire as The Bachelorette doesn't mean it's not fair to have someone else is The Bachelorette.

Because remember, Taisha was also being considered for The Bachelorette as well as Claire. So when they're going through casting, we know this show, the cast that is eventually settled upon for whoever lead it is whatever lead it is. It's not the 30 most. Like perfectly chosen people for that particular person, they're casting a TV show, so if they're filming and they're going through casting before the season and Claire and Taisha and Tia are three of the women that were up for the gig.

They probably had a mix of guys in there that, hey, if we end up going Matear, here's a group of guys that would probably like to you if we end up going with Claire. Here's a group of guys that would like Claire. Same thing for Tasha. Well, now tasted your girl, now tasted your Basharat. So I guarantee there are guys there that they cast for taste or thought would be a good fit for Tatia.

So and I don't think any of those guys not that they were Chanticleer Claire, but I'm sure when they're now told, hey, taste is going to take over and be The Bachelorette, I'm sure they're like, yeah, cool.

I'm down with that. I doubt very few are going to be like, no, I'm bouncin a I don't want to I'm sure those guys are cool about staying around and I think they would have been more upset if Claire left Wooddale after two weeks and they just sent everyone home and said, all right, that's the show by.

That would have been a little more unclear, but I see this is as more of almost as a good thing, it's almost like contestants are now kind of taken back a little bit of power from the show because we know the show is highly manipulated and it's done behind the scenes and people are told to say things and do certain things.

And now here's Claire saying, look, I found my guy. Yeah, I was speaking to him pre show and I don't need to put on a fake show for you guys. You really want me to go through with this? You really want me to go on dates with guys I have no interest in? Probably not. And clearly something was negotiated where it was like, OK, what do we do?

And Claire says stance was essentially I'm not filming anymore. So you figure it out and put them on their toes and they had to figure it out. And that's where they came to and has been brought in as The Bachelorette. So let's ease up on Claire, the hate on Claire just because she broke some sort of rules that weren't even rules.

There was no rules the minute covid came in and postponed her season. Throw all rules out the window. And like I said in my tweet, unless. When covid came in and everyone was sent home, producers strictly told her, you are absolutely 110 percent not allowed to talk to anybody. And if any of your guys contact you, you immediately have to report him to us. We don't know. My guess is that's not what happened. My guess is they didn't tell her anything and just let things play out as they did.

And here we are. I don't think they would tell her not to do that. Not not during covid. I think they just probably said nothing now because I don't think they told her to do it as well either. I think they just said nothing. And and that's where we're at. So that's on the clear front. Now, the reports are that Becca Ghufron is there and so is Hannah. And there's pictures of Hannah and there and Becca Cooper and has been discovered as being Hannah and a little bungalow or casita there.

That's on the site. She's definitely there and so is Hannah and why they are there immediately. Speculation turned to, well, maybe they had there they're going to have a four week season of classes and then they're going to go into Bachelor in Paradise. And this is like, well, for Bachelor in Paradise, yeah, you've got guys there, but you have two girls there, Taisha and Hanahan, and as far as I know, you would need six to eight more girls to bring in to have those guys that are left date those girls.

And no, they're not going half bachelorette, half bachelor in paradise season. There's no other women there other than those two.

I'm hearing reports of Jared and Ashley, their wells heading down there. Those are not single people. So that has nothing to do with Bachelor in Paradise. I really think these people are going down just for helping out stuff, whether it's with the guys or whether it's with Tatia as The Bachelorette. I don't think we're having a double bachelorette season with Hannah and and Tasha. Becca certainly is not any part of any bachelorette season. She hasn't even publicly broken up with her fiancee yet.

Do you really think she's jumping into a bachelorette season as a lead? No issue jumping into a possible bajram paradise season when she hasn't even broken up publicly with her fiancee. No. So I don't know why, because Ghufron is there. I really don't know why Hanrahan and is there, but I think people are wanting it to be this big, massive thing. And I think it's nothing more than they're there to lend support. And. Well, why did she have a big briefcase?

Why did she have a big suitcase? Well, because anybody that goes into that bubble has to quarantine for a week before they start doing anything. So maybe Hanah just, you know, needed to bring eight sundresses to 115 degree heat out in the desert.

I don't know, but. I don't know the answers, like I said, there's no definitive answers right now, nobody has any definitive answers of anything. But I think I've I know the show pretty well and I know it well enough to know that they're not doing a double bachelorette. They're not doing a bachelor in paradise season. Every single outlet e e US Weekly, Life and style, they're all reported, Taisha is the new Bachelorette, I don't think all four.

Media outlets would be that off if there was a double bachelorette season, they wouldn't have said it and they wouldn't have all reported it. And you also got to remember something. Lauren Zema is the mouthpiece for Entertainment Tonight when it comes to bachelor bachelorette reporting. It is was the first one to put it out there, I believe. Hey, Claire is out. Taisha is the new bachelorette. Lauren Zema is the girlfriend of the host of the show.

She's not going to put out any wrong information. She's not ever going to put out negative information. And she certainly never going to put out any misleading information, trust me on that.

So if you want to take one of the media outlets and say who's the most credible, it probably best considering the leader of that news source for their bachelor and bachelorette information is Lauren Zema, who's the girlfriend of the host of the show. So she's never going to do anything negative about the show ever. She's also not going to put out any misleading information to try and trick the audience, nor is she going to put out something that's just flat out wrong.

So. Everyone's saying Tater's, the Basharat, every BATCHELLER person saying on social media, congrats to Tatia, can't wait to see you. They wouldn't be saying that if there was some double bachelorette coming or something like that, it's just I can't tell you I know what the answer is for why Becca and Hannah and are there. But I don't think it's what people think it is. I think it's just more of they're there for to help out and to talk to people and maybe, you know, help Taisha through this so or even the guys through this.

So I think I think that's where we're at. But like I said, recording this on Wednesday, something could break Wednesday night. And, you know, things change, but I will hopefully nothing does and keep it on my Twitter and my Instagram story and my Instagram feed. That's where I'm going to be doing a lot of stuff. I do have a column up today that is basically the written version of what I just said. For people that have been saying they don't read Twitter, they're not Instagram people.

You know, it is tough because we are in twenty twenty. And unfortunately, if you're not on Twitter or you don't have an Instagram account and you don't follow Instagram stories, I'm sorry you are missing out on stuff. It's a lot easier for me. A hell of a lot easier for me. To when I get some information sent to me, whether it's in a phone call or an email or a GM to immediately just tweet that out rather than run to my website and put a post up, especially if it's only something that's two sentences long.

That's what Twitter is for, or maybe a few sentences. And I do two or three tweets and then I just screenshot those and put them in my Instagram story. It's just it's so much easier that way. We will be getting back to normal programming once that's where it starts. But for the time being, you know, it's just much easier to go that way. When Claire season station season starts airing in September, we're back to normal probably and have read her emails on Tuesdays.

The recaps going to be on Wednesdays because the show's airing on Tuesdays and then the podcast on Thursdays. We're back to normal. And I know that people think, oh, trust me, I'm getting emails and DMS all the time. Why don't you write me more? This is ridiculous. It's like, look, this is I'm still giving you everything I can just in a different form for right now because it's easier.

If I have two sentences to write, when am I ever on my website, put a post up that was two or three sentences long ever? No. You know, you have at least a full page of stuff, and if I just have a tweet to put out, there's no reason to go to my site. That's what you've got to follow me on Twitter at reality, Steve and Instagram at reality. See, you're just going to get stuff easier that way and.

We'll work on it from there, so let's get started with the podcast. It's Kate Stayman, London. She wrote the book, One to Watch, it is basically the idea of what if they had a plus sized bachelorette? So her show in the book is called Main Squeeze. There's a blogger named Bea who's a plus size model or a plus sized blogger and talks about the show with her girlfriends every week, writes about it on her blog. And then the production team comes to her and says, We'd love for you.

This is going to be our twist. We want to have a plus sized bachelorette and then just all the shenanigans that go along with it. And it's a very, very interesting read. Here's what I did for the podcast. For those that don't want to be spoiled, the first 30 minutes of the podcast with Kate. Army talking with Kate without spoilers, the only thing we spoil is the name of the lead, which is me and her producer, Lauren, we don't talk about anything that gives anything away.

And then we're we're 30 minutes in. I was like, man, this is tough. I didn't think about this beforehand. This wasn't planned. It was just like we were 30 minutes in. I was like, this is this is tough. I want to talk about the spoilers.

So it's just like, why don't we it's OK. So about 30 minutes in, you'll hear us immediately switch gears. And for the next 15 minutes, we talk about the book. So if you have read it, you can continue to listen for there because she gives insight to why she wrote the motivation behind the characters, the motivation of why she ended the book the way she did, and any thoughts we have going forward for possible sequels and stuff like that.

So if you haven't read the book, I would go get it and listen to the first 30 minutes. And then once we start talking about spoilers, if you don't want to be spoiled, then just shut the podcast off at that point. But if you read the book, I know you probably liked it. This will be a great podcast for you. Kate was great to have on. I love the fact that she threw a reality Stefan in her book and there was actually more that was supposed to be a reality, Stefan, that got deleted in the final draft, which I'm very bummed about.

But anyway, great podcast guest. And if you heard me on my Sunday night show, you knew that I have a pretty big guest coming up. That's going to happen next week. I haven't recorded it yet, but we're set to record on Tuesday. And it's going to be a very interesting interview. I guarantee you trust me on this. It's someone that I'm not going to tell you whether it's a guy or a girl. And it's someone that you probably wouldn't expect to be on my podcast.

I wouldn't have expected it. But it's happened and it's going to happen, and that'll be the podcast next week, barring something crazy and we don't record on Tuesday, but trust me, you will all be interested in this one as I am. So without any further ado, let's get going. Kate Stayman, London, the author of One to Watch for podcast number one. Ninety four. All right, let's bring her in, she is the author of a book called One to Watch.

It came out at the beginning of July, I believe, if I'm not mistaken. But we'll get we'll get clarification on that in just a moment. It is Kate Stiehm in London. Kate, how are you?

I'm doing so well, Steve. How are you? I'm good. When was the actual release of your book?

July 4th. OK, so for those that don't, no one to watch is a book that is essentially a parody of a parody is the right word, but it is a book that is written about a reality TV show with a suitor who is a plus size woman named B, who is on a show called Main Squeeze.

And she has X amount of suitors basically in the vein of The Bachelor and The Bachelorette franchise, because you, as I have found out. Or a big fan of the show, a super fan of the show, actually, you've watched a lot of the season, so I want you to first off explain to people where and when the concept of this idea for writing this book came to you.

Yeah, so it was actually it was early, twenty, seventeen, and I had actually worked as the lead digital writer for Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign and after that was back in L.A., where I had been writing before the campaign and was trying to figure out what to do next with my life and was thinking about a lot of different ideas. And that was McBeal season of The Bachelor. And I'm a big fan. And I was watching that season as I watched pretty much every season.

And it was the night of his finale and I was watching it. And suddenly the idea just kind of hit me like a bolt of under what is a plus size woman was The Bachelorette, and it was such a simple idea. But kind of the more I thought about it, the more rich the story possibilities were. And I just couldn't stop thinking about it. I stayed up until two o'clock in the morning that night, writing just like a little proposal for my agent.

I sat down and wrote the first chapter that weekend and we sold it two months later.

Yeah, it's it's such a good read. And I, I actually Spiderbait was the one that turned me on to this and then said, hey, I've got a zoom call with the author. We want to be on it, and I said, yeah, send me the book and I finished it in four hours. It's about four hundred and seventeen pages, I believe, for 19 maybe anyway.

Yeah, 470 reader than I am. Yeah. For him, 17 pages. I read it in four hours. I was hooked from the very beginning. And as I said on the Zoome call this Tuesday night, this past Tuesday night, you know, look, I'm not a guy that reads at all. I don't read books that aren't sports related or written by someone in that situation because those are the books I've read recently. I literally was going in my head.

What is the last, you know, non sports, non gambling related or non book written by a bachelor contestant that I read or media related? And I honestly couldn't think of one I. I want to say, even though this was media late, it was desperate networks and that was written.

I read that book, love that book, but that was also 20 years ago or something like that 15 years ago. Totally.

Yeah. So that like 10 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. By John Carter. Right. As I was named John Carter, I believe that I would have to look it up.

I read it in graduate school. OK, yeah.

Great. Really interesting book. Behind the scenes about television shows and how they get brought to networks and stuff like that. But I want to say that was the last book I read. And but this one was you know, obviously I cover The Bachelor and The Bachelorette very easy to get into this book. And, you know, we talked about a lot of this stuff. But I want to for people that didn't weren't on the Zoome call, obviously want to go over some things that we talked about.

So you said it started in 2017 or next season. And this idea of having a plus sized bachelorette who this character B is A is a blogger. She's a beauty blogger. And the networks come to her because she writes about the show, was always critical about the show. And I don't want to give away too many spoilers, but essentially that's the premise of the show. Plus Size Bachelorette, something that we've never seen on this show. We don't even see plus sized contestants, let alone the lead of this show.

So that was probably a major thing for you.

Is selling this as believable since the people who follow this show don't see plus size people at all? Totally, and I think maybe it was Bob Guiney season that there was one quote unquote plus sized model who got eliminated the first night and she was like a size 10. And it was just like, oh, cool. You threw us a bone there. ABC thanks for that one.

But I think, you know, a big part of the way I wanted to write this book was to think about, well, so much of what we love about The Bachelorette and The Bachelor is sort of the aspirational wish fulfillment quality of it.

But what would it actually be like if you're a person who doesn't look like every single person in bachelor nation and conform to these ridiculous beauty standards? What would people on the Internet say about you? What would columnists say about you and bloggers and everybody else, let alone your own insecurities and the people in your life? So it was so interesting for me to kind of explore from the inside and the outside what that would look like if it were actually to happen.

Yeah, and it's really a fascinating look because it's something that us fans who are fans of the show and watch the show religiously just don't see. And this this got brought up on the Zoome call and forgot to ask you this, and it was never brought up when once you came on was we know that B is plus size.

Do we ever get an actual like is she just bigger for the average girl on The Bachelor or was she someone that. Do we have A plus size on B do we have a size. Did you write down the size of her on this in the book. I can't remember if we ever got one.

So the terminology that I use in the book is medium fat, which is terminology that's used within the fat acceptance and plus size community. And what that means is around a size 20 to a twenty four. But to give it an actual number, sizes look so different from brand to brand and even person to person. So that was the terminology that I went with because it's really that's what's used in the community.

OK, so the idea of coming up with this book and coming up with this concept, you had to find X amount of suitors for her. And as someone who's read the book and you see the book as you're reading it, you're just trying to compare her suitors to former guys that have been on the show like, oh, wow, was she was she molding him after this guy or she holding him after this guy? So explain to people how you did the character development on the guys that were pursuing be on the show Main Squeeze.

I had so much fun writing the men because obviously as a huge Bachelorette fan, there are just so many interesting people in the history of the franchise to choose from. And so what I did actually was I sat on my living room floor with a pile of index cards and I wrote out sort of different tropes that we've seen over the season, which is sort of like the exuberant younger guy or the Virgin or the snotty academic guy or the sexy foreigner. And then I started thinking about, OK, well, what are the versions of this that we've seen already?

And then how can I sort of turn that on its head or show it to you in a different, more exciting way than maybe what we've seen on the show before?

And did you have I mean, you don't have to name the characters in the book, but did you have a mash up of guys that were on previous seasons that ended up being one of your characters on the show? Can you name guys from the franchise? You're like, yeah, I kind of got a pattern with this guy in the book about after him. Well, I told you, I'm an exile fan.

And there's definitely he had especially I think he he sort of got over it in his later seasons. But in his earlier appearances with andI and Kaitlynn, he had like a little bit of smugness about him that I always thought where he he a little bit like felt like he was maybe a little too good for where he was. And I always loved I thought that was such an interesting sort of character tick of his. So I, I used that for one of the characters in the book and that and Eric from Rachel's season.

And he had just such like a a pure and loving energy about him, where he was sort of discovering his own personal growth as he was on the show. And I, I loved there's just such a purity and a joy about him.

And that was something that I thought, you know, in a book where they're going to be a lot of twists and turns and a lot of drama, I wanted to have at least one of the characters and I really have a couple of them who have that really joyful energy that Eric brought.

Was it tough writing the Bee character as a lead of the show and the things that she was thinking? Because when I'm reading this and I'm sitting here and I'm reading the book and again, never having experienced this show, having any sort of women who were little in size 20 or 22, let alone probably size 10, I mean, I don't know how many. I mean, I don't know how many women have worked as women sizes work in particular, but.

You know, B's character is really pretty deep about the way she feels about herself, the way she feels about how other people perceive her. Was it difficult to write for me or was it something where it was like, you know what? This is the way I want to see I want to see other people look at how. Plus, size people view themselves and view how other people view them. Yeah, you know, one piece of feedback that I've gotten from a lot of readers that I really appreciate is they say, you know, often when I read books about plus sized protagonists, they just have to be a total tough boss, super confident, never doubt themselves, never have insecurities.

And with B, they felt that they really relate it to her so much because, sure, she she is tough.

She is a boss. She is, you know, a career woman who has the confidence and bravery to go and star on a television show. But like that doesn't mean she's not going to face terrible insecurities, especially, you know, I think dating and falling in love is something that can bring up anyone's insecurities, let alone doing it with a camera crew following your every move and millions of people watching and commenting on you and commenting on your body. So for me, the only way to tell the story, honestly, was to sort of look at both sides of that coin, both her confidence and her insecurities, and sort of look at how could the experience of being on the show be an opportunity for her to grow and become a little bit more secure and who she is and care less about what other people think of her.

And, you know, that's someone who has covered the show as long as I have and talked about the insides of the show that not a lot of people see on a weekly basis every Monday night for two hours, you definitely dive into that aspect of the show where you have a character in there that as a producer that is kind of leading.

Islay is BS lead producer throughout the whole show who is doing things and saying things that are just like, wow, you know, stuff that I've written about over over the years.

I'm like, yeah, this is this hits the nail on the head of everything that I've heard that kind of goes on behind the scenes.

You obviously have. You know, you've never worked on The Bachelor and The Bachelorette, but you've obviously read and heard things over the years to make you create these characters that you did kind of like in the unreal fashion, the the television show that was a parody of The Bachelorette Bachelorette.

Did you did you kind of take that as inspiration as well?

Definitely. And actually, unreal is I'm really glad you brought that up as kind of a counterpoint, because unreal, I think, is so much about that kind of manipulation that happens behind the scenes. And it's not really about the thing that I love most about the show, which is that like every so often you really and truly get to see two people fall in love and meet the person they're going to be with for the rest of their lives. And I think about like Jason and Molly and what that was like seeing him like say goodbye to her and then get back together with her or Ashley H.

And JP going on their first date and knowing that, like, oh my God, they're going to be married and have kids one day because of the show. So that like that sort of behind the scenes of what is it actually like to fall in love in a situation like this where you do have people manipulating you and you do have so many different agendas, sort of all playing out at the same time? That was what I was really interested in.

And I really the character of the the main producer, Lauren, she was the hardest to write because I wanted to write a really rich, three dimensional character. So it's not just that she's manipulative and she's a producer, like, sure, those things are true, but she also kind of like sees herself as a feminist and sees casting B as like this cool feminist thing to do. And that's true, too. So, again, just trying to find the sort of the more nuanced things that maybe we haven't gotten to see as much in other things about The Bachelor, what are the major characters of this show?

Or if this book is a guy called Reality Stefen just getting, you know, not a major I'm not a major character. However, you do reference the fact that this is a television show, main squeeze. But you reference a guy named Reality Stefan, who in the past has spoiled main squeeze on numerous occasions. So this producer, Lauren, is trying to pull one over on everybody and even says she doesn't want that motherfucker reality. Steve, to spoil this little surprise that they have, which is we're going to name this plus size woman as our bachelorette, whatever you want to, you know, the main character.

So, again, I really appreciate the fact that you throw that in there. And I got I got to get a mention in a book that I'm sure is going to be a New York Times bestseller. I am just elated. And I had so many people sending it to me before I actually even told me about one to watch was, hey, you're in this book like I think it's this is you. And I'm like, oh, all the more reason to read it.

And can we can we can we do a sequel to this book where we just dive into the reality, Stefan's life, what it was like, one to watch, two reality stuff.

I think I think that's that's what the people are crying out for. Certainly I'm getting DM's about it every day. Yeah.

No, it's it was it was a funny reference that you brought up. And there are references to even other people in the franchise, the host, the creator, stuff like that. The creator of Main Squeeze is a guy named Michael.

Foust which is, you know, pretty funny, pretty similar to another person who created a dating show, just as it says on the copyright page, all similarities to persons living or dead are purely coincidental or coincidental.

Yeah, no, it was it's a great reference. And the other thing that you do that's really fun was the fact that as the show is going on, the one the one thing that your main squeeze television show within this book is different of how The Bachelor airs is that main squeeze is something that is done on a weekly basis, like they film Monday through Sunday and then Monday. The following Monday's episode is what happened in the previous week, almost like in a Big Brother realm.

So that made you able to have a few liberties with things. Is that something that you all you openly thought about?

Yeah. So actually in the first draft I wrote it where it was like The Bachelor, where it was all filmed, you know, in sort of March and April. And then it airs in May and June. And I had this like, very elaborate spreadsheet that was like this is the week that this chapter is being filmed and this is when it would air. And these are the days. And it was so confusing. And my editor was like, I beg of you, find a better way to do this.

And it just so happened that at that time I had just started watching Love Island UK for the first time. And on that show, they're airing episodes every single day of like what happened yesterday is is on TV today. And I was like, oh, this is so cool. So maybe, you know, I think it probably strains credulity a little bit that they could really because I love Island, obviously they're all in one house for the whole summer and they're not taking the production crew on the road and adding and travel time and union breaks and everything like that.

But so it might not be true that The Bachelor could really film the way that we see The Bachelor on a week to week basis in that way. But I figured it's fiction. This feels like something I can get away with that will make it a little easier to follow. And also it makes it, I think, a little more immediate and exciting to be like, oh, man, she's going on this date on Wednesday and it's going to be on TV on Monday.

And so for some characters, that can really up the stakes when they know that the people in their lives are going to see what just happened and.

Another thing that you added to it was the fact that because the show is basically airing in real time, only on a on a week delay, you have instant feedback from the audience and things can go a certain way. And a producer is telling people in the in the book, hey, this is working well, this isn't working well. People are going to believe this. People aren't going to believe that.

That was also an interesting trope to add as well as you writing as a blogger who's commenting on a show that's currently airing in real time, is this confusing to people out there?

I don't know.

I mean, because it's like the best thing to say is, like, really go read the book because it's it's a really fascinating read. And if you like I said on the Zoome call the other night, if you watch The Bachelor and Bachelorette and you have any look, I'm a guy that doesn't read and I like the book.

So I was going to say, if you have any semblance to liking to read books, you being a fan of this franchise, you will absolutely love this book. I also think that there are so many things when I think of this franchise that is wrong with it. We talk about the diversity that's going on, that this campaign that's been started about it. We just don't see plus size women on this show. We don't even plus size guys on the show.

We think about it. Yeah, there's no plus size people.

So do you think and I know this came up in the Zoome call the other night, do you think this is something to where this could be the start of something and maybe the show read your book sees the reaction to your book about why aren't there more plus sized people in this franchise and it and it adds to it? Or do you just think this is Hollywood and they're not used to something like this and this would be too far off the beaten path for them?

I mean, I think what we've seen time and time again is that people in Hollywood, first and foremost, are interested in making money. And so, you know, they're not not putting size people or fat people on the show because they think that it's a terrible idea. They're doing it because they think they'd lose audiences and that audiences wouldn't be interested in watching it, that they would lose money if the producers had an idea or the network had an idea.

And public pressure is certainly a good way to give them that idea that audiences are interested in seeing themselves reflected. Right. And we're not talking about a minority of people, two thirds of American women where size 14 and above. But we have a franchise that says, sorry, guys, you don't even exist as far as we're concerned. So if we're hearing from audiences in the same way and obviously I don't want to equate size representation with race representation, there are two different issues that have two different historical context.

But, you know, I think seeing the pressure that the diversity campaign has created and I'm a big supporter of that campaign, I think that it's important for people to say, you know, across, you know, disability communities and gender identities and new identities, to say that we would like to see ourselves represented on screen. And I think it's totally appropriate for audiences to say, hey, we're the ones that you're making money off of. And it's important that you hear our voices on these issues.

How long did it take you to write the book? Oh, about two and a half years, I would say, from soup to nuts.

OK, so when you're writing a book, I've clearly never written a book in my life, you're obviously having all these ideas and you're thinking it's going to go one way or maybe another way.

The ending that you did end up with in this book, was that always something you were building towards or did it change as you were writing it?

The ending was the same from basically the work I wrote. When I sold the book. I sold it on proposal. So I had written three chapters and a detailed outline of the entire plot summary where I went through kind of episode by episode. All the twists and turns and almost everything from that original outline stayed the same. It was funny. Some of the stuff we had to change, like there is a character in the book who initially I had scripted and the outline that he had a secret girlfriend and that that comes out and that's a big twist.

And that's when he gets at home. And then as I was writing the first draft, Rachel's season was airing and that happened with Demario and my editor was like, I think we have to change this. So it happened a few different times. The specific things that I had written would then happen in real life and then we'd have to change them. But in terms of the ending and sort of the bigger plot points, those were all the same from the beginning.

Wow.

OK, yeah. I didn't know how that worked. I didn't know if there was certain characters. As you're writing them, you're like, no, you know what, I want this person end up with me.

I want this person because when I'm reading the book and I'm not going to give away spoilers to this, I don't want to. That's why we haven't even revealed names or anything like that other than the main character being our producer, Lauren and reality stuff. And of course, I don't think as as I was reading it, I was the way you wrote it and the way you were writing. The audience was responding to it. I didn't really know where you were headed with.

The ending of the show, I didn't know who was going to end up with, if she was going to meet up with somebody, how it was going to work, what would be her reasoning for why she would pick some guy? Yeah, it was it was really, you know, almost it was a mystery to me.

It was a mystery in bookshelves.

Well, that was part of how I saw it there. There are certainly a lot of elements of suspense on the book, but it is also a little bit of a who's here for the right reasons, mystery and kind of be is doing some, you know, romantic detective work, trying to figure out who is actually interested in her versus who is just trying to get famous and be on television, which I think is something we've seen that a lot of the leaders of this show have had to do.

And I actually I referenced Ashley Hubbard's season a lot because that happened to her in such a big way on her season. And that was really influential to me and how I created this. But the thing that did change as I was writing was sort of as I got to know the characters better, my opinions of them would change.

And the way I wrote them would get a little more complicated. So like, there's one man who was supposed to be the villain. He is he was intended to be the villain of the book.

And the more I wrote him, I really loved him. And there was so much about him that I thought was really interesting and complicated. And he does a terrible thing. But he still ended up being a character that I really loved and so be really loved him. And then there was one character who was supposed to be the hero of the book. He was supposed to be Prince Charming. But the more I wrote him, the more it was like, well, he's had a lot of shit in his past that makes him kind of an insecure and jealous person.

And that's going to be a real problem for him. And B and so that's going to be something they're going to have to overcome. So while the actual plot points of, you know, did this guy do a terrible thing? Did this guy end up being the right guy for her? Those things didn't change. But I think the shading of who they were as characters got more and more complicated. And that's why, you know, it takes so long to write a book because you're writing a draft after draft and you're learning new things every time that you go back to it.

And I know those guys that you were just talking about. I know which ones you were saying. And I want to look at it from the mountaintops of, oh, I know what it is.

Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about.

But yeah, because there are twists and turns, just like any bachelor bachelorette season, we have twists and turns. We have people back home. We have people that, you know, might not be there for the wrong reasons, people that are interested in being on possible spinoff shows of the franchise. And yeah, I mean, it's it's it's really it's really a fun look at this show. But from a perspective of a plus size person that we just don't see in the franchise, is is there anything when you were writing the book that you were like you originally had in and said, no, taking that out?

I don't think that's a good idea or something along those lines. I don't think so, I'm trying to think I can't think of anything, you know, there were some things that were just as I told you this already. So this is going to be a surprise to you. But reality stuff that actually used to be a bigger character in the book.

There were no there was you know, there's the one little reference that's in there, which, by the way, is the number one thing that readers who are like. There are so many Easter eggs, there's even a reality stuff that people tell me all the time. And like they're like 50 Easter eggs in there, but that's everybody's favorite.

But so, like, I had it where he with a little more of, like, a nemesis character for the producer. And it was just like really a running joke. And then, you know, he writes a blog post about her and she's really upset about it and whatever.

And so there were like little things like that that ultimately there's so much story in the book because basically I've written an entire season of television in one novel. Right. So there's just so much to get through in terms of all her different relationships and all the episodes and what happens that we had to lose some of those sort of minor plot lines that were maybe just very enjoyable for me to write. But ultimately, we couldn't have like a seven hundred page book.

Well, there's always possibilities for sequels to this because, you know, this is a this is this this is a book about, like you said, covers one season of a reality television show where clearly there could be winners and losers and then people that may be beaten up with end up getting their own there on the next season of Main Squeeze. And people have asked, like, you know, I'm interested. Is there a possible sequel coming with the characters of this book in the future, or is it something that you haven't even thought of yet?

I think never say never the I would say the thing I was most interested in writing in this book was BS story, and I think the story is pretty well complete at the end of the book. But the fact that people have loved it so much and that I do get this question all the time. Will you write more seasons? Will there be another season? You know, and it wouldn't necessarily have to be a book. Maybe it's something we could see on television.

Who's to say so? I think, you know, the more that people love the book and buy the book and talk about the book, the bigger the odds are that there will be more to do with it.

Yeah, well, just the idea of one to watch becoming a 10, 10, 10 episode series on Netflix isn't far fetched at all. Like this could easily be a television show spaced out over eight to 10 episodes. If somebody wanted to do that, I hope I hope it does get made into a television show to be great for you.

I mean, from your mouth to God's ears. Yeah, but yeah, I think it's I think it's something clearly to look into. I don't know.

It's weird because I don't know like because said I don't know much about the literary world in terms of books because I don't read books and it just sounds horrible and I don't read books, but I, I don't know how it works in terms of.

Do you have to have X amount of, I don't know, bookseller's to even consider writing a sequel? Do you have to just want to write a sequel? Do you how does it work?

I think it would depend on every author and the specifics of their deal. But I think it first and foremost, a nice thing about the publishing world is it's about the author and their creativity and what's inspiring to them and what they want to write. Because, you know, if you think about it, when I decide what I'm writing next, I'm really choosing how I'm going to spend the next two or three years of my life. Right. That's a big decision.

So, you know, you're talking with your editor and your agent in the various other players involved to decide, OK, obviously we're interested in knowing if there's a market for something that you can tip the decision. But ultimately, it has to be about you to think the way you're going to spend your time, because if you're writing something you don't want to be writing, that's going to show up in the pages, I think.

Yeah. And I think when we did talk on the Zoome call, you said that you had ideas for a possible sequel. If you decide to go down that road, there are already ideas floating around in your head, right?

Yeah. You know, when you spend so much time with characters, the kind of the more time you spend writing them, the more obvious it sort of becomes. Oh, here's what they would do in this situation. Here's what they would do in that situation. And sort of, you know, when quarantine happened, I was thinking, oh, where would everybody, everybody be right now? And I was like, oh, I know exactly where everybody would be right now.

So it becomes, you know, as they start to take on a life of their own, it's like, oh, sure, I could see what would happen to them next.

Well, is there anything? I'm trying to think of it's tough because I don't want to spoil the book.

I maybe have asked this well, we could do like a spoiler section if you wanted, like, you know, OK, you know, I want to because I think a lot of people that are listening to this probably have read the book.

So this first 30 minutes for those of you that read it, I you probably know a lot of the references that that Kate has been making and I have been making. But I do want to talk about some specifics. So this next half, if you have not read the book and you don't want to know spoilers about it, I would suggest just muting or fast forwarding to the end. But I do want to talk spoilers from the book, so let me do it.

All right, let's do it. When you talked about Nick Viall earlier, you were talking about Luke, right? I was actually talking about Asher. Oh, I thought you were talking about weight. Oh, I didn't see. I didn't I only didn't I didn't link Asher to Nick violently because Asher had kids, so I.

Yeah, the way the way Nick sort of you know, I think in the old days everybody had a job, but Nick was some sort of like on the precipice of like when no one on the show has a job anymore. But he like in the beginning, like he was from Chicago, he had a real job. He was a successful career guy. And he was kind of like, what am I doing here? But he also it was like sort of a push pull with him of like, does he actually want to be on this show?

And then, of course, by the end, it was very clear to us that he wanted to be on many seasons of the show.

But that that sort of push pull. What am I actually doing here? Do I want to be here? I love that for the character.

I thought I was relating Nick to Luke because of just how he was like the sexual Lothario. And that's that was Nick on tape and that was Nick on Kaitlynn season. And that was Nick just like just sleeping with women, obviously. And Luke was in the book like she couldn't get a read on this. Is this is this guy for real, like this guy just feeding me a bunch of lines.

But that's why I was thinking, oh, that's got to be Nick. OK, what is the other thing? Oh, so we talk we talk about possibly writing a sequel. You had said and I think even on the Zoome call that a lot of people were more fired up about you possibly writing a sequel to My God, why am I blanking on his name?

But Sam Sam, that you were that you said. Yeah, you know, I've got some ideas for a Sam as the lead for Main Squeeze, because then it allows you to write off to write Sam as a main squeeze and then go back into all the kind of themes that we've seen about the female contestants on this show, the Krier, the Overdrink. I'm sure you could come up with great characters for a season of Sam being the master.

That's an interesting idea. And I will say, you know, also in the book we make reference to a show called Main Squeeze Mansion, which is sort of like the bachelor pad or Bachelor in Paradise. And I think something like that might be really interesting because then we could get to see some women from Sam's season, but also some men from this season. So I think there are a lot of opportunities. You know, you can do a little jump ahead in time or a move back in time and sort of see what's going on with everybody.

Yeah, no, I think it was an interesting and interesting look at it. And when you mentioned it on the Zoome call, the possibilities are really endless because if you did do a one to watch part two, which would be the next season, the main squeeze with Sam is the lead character.

You have to think of another 15 or so female contestants that you want to write for and come up with there and compare them to former female contestants on this show, like the the the overly emotional one, the one that isn't there to make friends, the one who gets drunk.

Right. Like there's so many ways you can go. And the way you wrote these male characters, so easy to I.

I mean, I say easy.

I'm not a writer but a book writer. But yeah, it seems like you would be excellent at coming up with ways to think of women on the show and then just slam the character.

The character of Sam himself was really interesting because when I was reading it, I guess when you first presented us with guys from the show, I never saw Sam getting to the end ever. Like what made you bring Sam to the end? So I think with them and I think that a lot of romances, there's a character who he just seems perfect and a lot of plays and he's sweet and he's lovely and he just wants what's best for the female protagonist.

And everything with them is really easy. And often in stories like that, the woman just has to get over her own shit so that she can just let herself be with the really easy guy.

And I think that that's not really how dating tends to work usually. Like, I don't know, I've never been with a guy who I'm like, oh, you're so perfect.

And if I could just deal with my emotional problems, I could let myself be with you, you perfect man. And so Sam was kind of there. Obviously, he's his own character and he has a lot of his own complex stuff going on. But at the end of the day, you know, I think that maybe if Sam's comparable to anyone, it's Melissa from Jason's season of like, you know, this is the person who on paper is the person I should be with.

But at the end of the day, I'm in love with somebody else and you can't choose who you fall in love with. And I really I loved that moment for B of realizing she's gone the whole season being like, I just don't want to end up alone. I just don't want to end up alone. I need people to see me as someone who could have a boyfriend or a fiancee. And then at the end, for her to say, actually, that isn't what matters at all.

What matters is that I'm with someone who I'm actually in love with. So that was that was fun for me to be able to get her to that point.

So what ultimately made you have her end up with Asher? Why did you think that being ASHers connection was the best one? And why write it the way you did where she doesn't choose? You know, Ashar eliminated himself or she did it again.

I'm sorry.

I'm blanking whenever he leaves, when Ray shows up and after that it's.

And after she slept with Luke.

So with Asher, you know, I sort of from the beginning knew that he was the character I was writing to end up with B and I sort of one of my things that I do is he's the only man who you see in every single episode up until when he leaves, which is sort of a thing that the producers of the show do as well, that whoever the you know, is going to win the season as often and every single episode.

And that's how you can tell earlier on if you don't read Reality, Steve's blog.

And so with Ashar. But I didn't again, it couldn't be too easy. Right. And he's the character who the more I wrote him, the more I realized, like, oh, he's actually quite an insecure and jealous person. And this show is going to be hell for him. It is going to be so awful for him to see this woman that he's falling in love with the with all these other men. And ultimately, he's not going to be able to do it right like that.

He is capable of falling in love with B and being an amazing partner for her and the right partner for her. But he's not capable of doing it in the context of this show. So it's the main question of the book is what does it look like to fall in love on national television? Is it possible? I think for some people, yes. And for B, she learns for herself that she can do it and actually learn for himself that he can't do it.

So for someone who came in kind of thinking, I'm too good for the show, what he kind of learns is I wasn't actually emotionally mature enough for the show, which I think is a good little crossing of the arcs for the two of them. Then once they've both completed their respective emotional journey, they got to be together.

One character that I had talked about with Ashley on my live last week, two days before the Zoome, I had just started the book. I was 50 pages in and I told Ashley, I said, look, Ashley, I don't want to know anything about it because we're doing the zoom in two days. I will finish the book by then. But Ray's is going to play a role in this. He's going to come back and she's going to do up with.

Right. I that was my prediction based 50 pages in. I was like, she's bringing up Ray too much. She keeps bringing up the fact that she cannot get over this guy. He's going to play a role. And then as I'm reading, I keep seeing you constantly referencing Ray and how she felt about when Ray touched her and when when Ray kissed her. I'm like, OK, he's coming, he's coming. He's coming back.

And then I immediately thought, oh, the second he comes back. She's picking him, and you did a great job of it because I didn't understand why she didn't take him, but then the way you wrote it out, it was like, OK, this makes sense. This guy is only there when he wants to be. He's only there for her when he wants to be there for her. And she actually saw that. Now, did I think that she would be strong enough to say that to him after her friend Marian tells her that that's what's going on with Ray?

That's the way he treats you? I don't know. I didn't think she would I think she would disregard her friend. And I still thought she was going to go with Ray. But that's the way you decided to go with that. So I thought that was very well written because you had me fooled. I thought the second Ray came back on the show, she was ending up with Ray. Oh, man.

And when you said that on the live, my editor and I were like a spoiler. We got we got them. But yeah, no, I think, you know, and in my life and in the life of every female friend I've ever had, you know, we have all at one time or another fallen for a guy who we just think hung the moon and who ultimately was not that good of a dude. And your friends try to tell you and they try to make you see it.

But it's really hard when you're in love with someone to see that maybe they're not actually that good of a person. And maybe the reason that you're upset all the time isn't because of you, it's because of them.

So writing for me that some of the hardest stuff for for me to write personally, just because I've been there, so many of my friends have been there.

But I think ultimately, like, we wouldn't be satisfied with these ending if she wasn't able to overcome sort of her feelings for this problematic person in her life and understand how she and like her own role in it.

Right. Why why this was so appealing for her, this guy who was never good to her, who was never, you know, sort of love her the way she wanted or deserve to be loved. Why was that appealing to her? And ultimately, it was because of her, her insecurities and her own sort of lack of confidence and being able to say and fight for what she wanted. So what she's able to kind of overcome all of those things, then she can say, OK, now I can go and ask for what I actually want and ultimately get it.

Yeah, it was a great twist. Had me completely fooled. All I knew was this guy is playing a role. At some point later on in the book, he's coming back and she's going to go out with him. And he did come back. He comes back at the end causes ask her to leave and then it's a Ray and Sam finale. And I didn't think she was going to choose neither either.

I thought that she would. I thought. Did you think she was going to pick. Oh, Ray, I totally thought she was going to be Ray. And I thought it was great.

And then I thought it was going to end up with them like I did. The other thing I was doing was feeling how many pages I had left to the book because I you know, I was reading I wasn't reading it on a Kindle. I was reading the actual book. So that also was like, wait a second, there's more coming because there's too thick of pages here for this to be just over. Like it was like she's she's got to be covering post show stuff that's going on and yeah.

We got to do after the final rose. Yeah. I mean how can we not do Mappa. Yeah.

I was just, I was still like even when even when she didn't pick Sam or Ray at the end I felt that there were still thick enough pages to where it was like, OK, she still might have I thought she was going to ask for came out of nowhere for me is what I'm saying. I thought it was going to be a change of heart of Ray.

I thought it was going to be something like that. Like Ray realizes the way he's been with her and he admits that she was right about him and give me a chance or something like that. And I for some reason, I guess I thought she was going to take Ray back on the after the final rose. I think that's what I was thinking when I was reading the book. Pretty sure. Yeah.

I think that's what came out of left field for me. I did not see that. I did not see that coming.

Well I'm glad to manufacture it. A good twist there. Yeah. No it's it's a great little twist at the end.

And I think even on the Zoome call last night, the other night with a lot of the women that were on it, they loved the fact that she ended up with Ashar and it made all the sense in the world to them and they were happy with it. So you pleased a lot of people?

Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, listen, one of the reasons I've been excited for Claire's season is because it's you know, when you hit your thirties, you're kind of looking for different stuff in a relationship. And I think, you know, especially with Peter's season where everyone was so young and it was just like, OK, it's OK. But, you know, to see someone who's out there who's really looking for an adult relationship, which means it is going to be complicated and like, yeah, he has kids and he has a job and maybe it conflicts with her job and he has his own baggage and she has her own baggage.

Right. And I think that we all get that, like, that's always going to be the case. It's never going to be a fairy tale. It's always going to be messy and complicated because people are messy and complicated. But that ultimately with the person you love, you figure out a way to make it work anyway. Well, for those of you that listen to the first 30 minutes and did not listen to the last 15, I could tell you right now, go get the book.

It's called One to Watch by Kate Stayman, London. It is if you're a fan of the franchise, it's it's a book that you can't not like. Clearly, if you've already purchased the book, good on you. That certainly helped Kate. I think this is I really hope that this ends up being a New York Times best seller. If it isn't already. I don't know. Is it has it been named.

We are. We're we're a USA Today bestseller. Gotcha. OK, I know Ashley Spivey was the one that turned me on to this. Ashlee's book club has been huge to a lot of my listeners and a lot of my readers. They love her stuff. She's been promoting the hell out of this book for the last month or so. She's the one that turned me on to this. But Kate, doing the Zoome call with you the other night was great doing this podcast even better because I got to get to dive in a little bit, even a little bit more to everything that you wrote and possible sequels, possible TV shows, were watching maybe reality stuff and could be the next main squeeze.

Who's to say? I think that would be a brilliant idea. And any and I would like any sort of consulting credit. Anything you want to talk about. Totally.

Who what what type of people that I like.

Who I would like is my bachelorette's, by all means run anything by.

Absolutely. And we'll get the whole producer team in there.

But, Kate, thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it. And we will definitely like I said, if you haven't purchased it one to watch, you can get it on anywhere where you buy any books, bookstore, Amazon. I'll put the link to it on the site. And yeah, thanks for coming on. I appreciate it. And good luck with everything in the future.

Thank you so much. Total pleasure. You got it. Thanks, Kate. Thank you so much to Kate for coming on. Really appreciate that. A couple of weeks ago, or maybe it was like a month ago, I had the Back to the Future offer on Brad Sclavos. Brad Gilmore called Brad Gilbert, who's a tennis coach. Brad Gilmore, who came on to talk about his Back to the Future book. And this one, like I said, I'm not much of a reader, but when it comes to a book all about parenting, The Bachelor or Bachelorette franchise.

Yeah, I was going to read it. Ashley Spivey told me to said it was great. I said I finished it about four hours and just a really good read and really makes you think about things, because this is a show that we would we have never seen and we don't know if we will ever see in The Bachelor franchise, if they would really ever put a lead as a the lead being a plus size person. Hell, it'd be nice if the lead was a size 10.

I don't even know. I'm not great with sizes. But have we ever had a lead female lead that was a size 10. I don't know. Doesn't I don't think so, but I could be wrong, but I'm talking about yeah, and this what she's a size 22 is what she basically made me out to be. We've definitely never seen it up to this point. Who knows if we ever will in the future, but it was great talking to her about that.

I hope you all enjoy that. If you haven't read the book, go get it. It's worth it coming from a guy who doesn't read books. And if you have read it, I hope you enjoyed the discussion and her motivations behind the characters and stuff like that. So I also want to kind of talk about. You know, like I said, I predicted at the beginning of the podcast, but, yeah, we got a big guest next week, assuming everything goes well and a record on Tuesday, you're going to want to hear this one.

It's going to be interesting. And yeah, I don't want to tease it any further guy or girl or anything like that, because I just don't like drinking, jinxing, stuff like that.

But you will trust me, be interested in listening to this one, as I know I am as interested in talking to this person and kind of getting to the bottom of some of the things that I had said about them over the years. So curious to see how this goes. That'll be next week. And please, you know, keep it on my Instagram, keep it on my Twitter for any updates and also write, subscribe and review and Apple podcasts.

It's much appreciated working on a few things for the podcast coming up, hopefully they come through, I will update you them accordingly and yeah, we'll just keep going here. And I know that just a shit show and Basharat and everyone wants to know what's going on every minute of the day, but you just nobody has any definitive answers. It's all kind of speculation at this point. So when I get definitive answers, I give them to you. I don't have anything definitive yet.

That's why I've just been kind of throwing stuff out there of things that I think it may be. And things like what? The motivation behind why they're doing certain things. It's all I can do at this point. But I definitely think by the time the first episode airs of this season, you're going to know what happened and you're going to know what happened, because I told you so. I have a I'm confident that I'll be able to get stuff eventually.

I just don't know when.

Anyway, thank you all for tuning in. I really appreciate it. Thanks to Kate for coming on. Go get the book one to watch. I have the link on my site on Amazon.com through Amazon.com. You could purchase it straight off their. Yeah, I hope you all enjoyed that. So for Kate Stayman, London, I am really sorry. Thank you all for tuning podcast one ninety four. I talk to you next week.