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I couldn't forgive anyone if they cross the line with me, if they didn't stick up for me, it's like out, out, out, out.

I'm sitting here with a whole different Chelsie right now and that was after my father dragged me out of their house by my hair. Did you feel like you were the white girl that was going to come in and fix the family?

I went up to her and I slapped her on the butt. Oh, really? And yeah. And she said black women have been defined by their hair and their asses for ages. You have no right to touch my body. This is just such classic white privilege right here. Yes, can we get to. Very excited to be on the red table today. This is serious. Can you say on red table? I hope so. If not, I'm at the wrong show.

Things like that pop out of my mouth so easily.

The last time I saw Chelsea was at her show.

Oh, OK. All right. Jada Pinkett Smith. The great thing about Chelsea is that she's a straight shooter. It's hard to find people, specifically white people that want to talk about that, want to talk about it.

You know, mommy's always tell us when you're born white, you're born with your foot in the door. And that's real talk. That's the truth.

Right? A lot of white people don't feel like that.

OK, well, yeah, moving on. Ladies, ladies, ladies, and. Nice to meet you. You gave me. Everybody calls me Gary. Welcome to the table.

Chelsea, thank you so much for having me. I'm really, really excited to have you here because white privilege, this is the topic that we we talk about a lot. And I know you're a straight shooter. All right.

I hope I don't screw it up, too, but you can screw it up at all. I'm telling you, it's going to be good. So my understanding is that you kind of had a space in your life where you really had to kind of deal with some of your anger and really look at some internal issues that brought you to explore white privilege.

Well, I had a big shift in therapy. I came from a lot of anger, like I was very tough, very like I could take care of myself. I don't need a man. I don't need babies back off. Right. You know, I just had this huge kind of shield up around me which didn't allow vulnerability until I went to therapy and learned that I was mourning the loss of my brother from nine.

And I was still pissed about that. I didn't know. Anger is your cover for being in deep pain. I'm sorry that I'm forty four just learning about this now, but better late to the party than never to show up at all. One day my psychiatrist walked in and handed me an orange and I remember my seeing my body like I was revolted but a man handed me something and then I was like, oh you hate men doing anything nice for you.

And when he handed it to me, I just I became undone. I said, I need to tell you about the day my brother died and what happened to my family, because him handing me something, just doing something, he picked an orange off of history in his backyard and gave it to me. And it was the nicest thing any man has done for me. Right. So I'm peeling the orange. I'm, you know, foaming at the mouth.

I'm like, slobbering. It was the first time I was able to release my pain, release my anger.

I didn't know that I was mad at my brother for dying. I thought I was upset or heard and that I was OK. And I put it away. Are you comfortable sharing what happened to your brother? Oh, yeah. So I was the youngest of six. He was the oldest. His name was Chad. We did everything together and he went on a trip to go hiking in the Grand Tetons and he fell. So the night before he left, he said he was coming back and said to me, I'll never leave you with this family, like talking about my parents, because they were a little bit.

And that was the last conversation I had. Right. But, yeah, you know, we get stuck in victimhood also. You want to blame somebody else for bad things. Guess how many other people's brothers died? Millions. You know, when I had a professional explain that to me, that I had spent my last 30 some years being angry at men for disappointing me. Well, I was like, well, that makes perfect sense why I can't be with somebody and why I need to do everything on my own.

And, you know, no dependents. I don't want to depend on anyone. People can depend on me. And I'll show up shop, shop, shop. But no one I can ever depend on another person. Right. Did you find that your rage affected your relationships with men? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I would you know, if they didn't do something wrong, I'd make sure they did. Oh, you know, I'm afraid.

Yeah, my mother, like I said, I know what's going to happen here.

So let me just set this up so I can dump you. You know that deep. Yeah. Impulsiveness, really bad.

Impulsiveness and very. Yeah. Just fly off the handle, you know, break up with somebody, get back together with them the next day. Never really had a healthy. I've had some two long term relationships, but I wouldn't describe either one of them as healthy.

I couldn't forgive anyone if they cross the line with me, if they weren't a loyal friend, if they didn't stick up for me, it's like out, out, out, out. Right. And then eventually you're like, well, who's here?

Yes, exactly. Like, it's nice to be an adult for the first time in my life. Yeah, I feel like that. I'm just now entering an adult relationship with Will Will.

After two years, we've finally I learned to have an adult relationship. I feel so different than I've ever felt before.

Now I'm on stage. I don't drink before I go on stage anymore, like I used to just be like whatever. The second show would be gone. And I'd be like, that's vaguely memorable. You know, I just didn't have any respect for my own art. Yeah.

Are there people in your life that you feel like you need to make amends to? I've made amends with some people in my life.

You know, that's not comfortable for me.

You know, I definitely I think it's probably not comfortable for most of it's not. So I resisted. Yeah. For me just in my process to recognizing places where I might have hurt people and looking at where I've been a mean girl, looking at where I've been a mean wife, I mean, just me, you know. So it's so funny because, you know, I never really looked at myself as being mean.

Really.

Yeah, I know. Not like that. Don't be like that. You don't know that. No, but that's the thing in our family were considered the main ones in the family. Absolutely, and I've really been working on that. I have been working on that for years.

It's really, really hard to shake and I had to dismantle that a long time ago because I don't want to behave like that. I want to be a girl's girl that I grew up with sisters. So I wanted to be a sister to everybody, not just the women I like. Right. You know, you don't have to be best friends with everybody, as my best friend Mary McCormick says, probably telling me to get the hell away. You don't have to be best friends with everybody, but you have to be a sister.

Everybody, listen, I'm sitting here with a whole different Chelsea right now, which is great. I just I really like I'm like, look at Miss Chelsea, Miss Just who's been doing so as part of her evolution. Chelsea made a controversial documentary. Hello, Privilege. It's me, Chelsea, about a difficult topic.

I'm clearly the beneficiary of white privilege. I want to know how to be a better white person to people of color. We need to talk to people who are white and stop asking black people to solve our problems. Do you think it exists? I wouldn't say it's totally nonexistent, but it's not something that I see very commonly. But would you see it if you're white?

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And here, gardening means to them listening to humans, growing stuff on the radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Greg, I had to get therapy before I shot this, but I had to learn how to sit instead of toss it. Yes.

And listen. So when you looked back at it, did you feel any guilt in regards to white privilege? Yes.

Do you know when you look at your life and you looked at being rewarded even in Hollywood?

For my bad behavior, which was considered bad, but I was being rewarded like a black girl would never have gone around shelver to tell celebrities how stupid they were. Never I would go to Mixed Nuts, which was a black comedy club. And I had this black best friend, Sean Drella, and I'd always go to her club. But she could never come to my club. She could, but she wouldn't get spots. I mean, just the examples when I go back and reflect, I'm like, oh, you idiot, this is the like wake the up.

You are a beneficiary of white privilege to such a degree, like you are the American white dream. God, I can I didn't go to college, didn't think I needed to, couldn't bother. You know, I just thought I was like, oh, I've got something to say. I'm sure people will be interested in that.

So I want to know that moment when your heart cracked open and there was a level of compassion that made you just go, Chelsea, we have to understand how we're participating in this white privilege idea.

OK, Tyshawn, my ex-boyfriend from high school, I dated him for two years. I got pregnant a couple of times. I lived with his family. His mother was a crackhead at the time. She was on and off drugs. She was sober. And so I was always helping out of the house. I mean, I don't know what the hell I thought I was doing there. I was sixteen years old, you know.

Did you feel like did you have that kind of white savior thing happening going on with you when you moved into his house? Did you feel like you were the white girl that was going to come in and fix the family? No, I think I came in, you know, in my family I was the problem child. And I think in their family I wasn't I was the OK and I liked that. I liked being the responsible one. His mom would go out all night and leave me with her.

Two little to see. That's a little bit of a white savior in there. Well, yeah, but at that age, it doesn't happen often. Right now it would be. But I, I wanted to be helpful. Like I was finally helpful in a household. I was congratulating myself at that age, like, I don't care about color. I love these people. I love to his family. That was what I was focused on. I wasn't thinking about him because I was up my own ass for a very long time.

And so I was like, oh, instead of my sister saying these words to me, you know how easy it was for you to go into his world and leave. Think about what it would be like to bring him into your world and how long he would last there. Right. And that was, you know, after my father dragged me out of their house by my hair.

At that point, you got in trouble a lot when we were together. And I was always not able to skirt out of the trouble. That's right. Like, I remember getting pulled over like four or five times on my way home to the house when I had been drinking. I had like five people in the car. And every single time I got through it. No, but you had the complex for the connection. Wow. I was in some pretty hairy situations that I never, ever paid the price for.

Never. Taishan was wasn't dealing drugs initially at the end he was right.

But getting caught, you know, three times with weed, he got arrested all three times and I was let go at the time. White privilege didn't occur to me at the time. I thought, I have a great personality like and I'm cute like that must be it. It didn't occur to me until I had to go back and actually look at that.

I grew up thinking the police were there to protect me.

Right. That's not how people of color grow up. They don't think of that. They're getting pulled over.

Is a life or death experience, life or death? I've been pulled over and yelled at.

The officers yelled, like, what do you think you're doing? You know, this before I was famous just out of my entitlement, just been like, you can't arrest me. My father will if I'm my father.

I mean, my father was a used car dealer.

I don't know what I was about, but I was just like and, you know, and I it worked. I was just like had this mouth on me. And I could and I thought, oh, yeah. Like, police are safe. I had a lot of revelation and watching your documentary, seeing how white people could actually be confused by the idea of white privilege and why there would be some white people that believe that white privilege is nonexistent.

So what we're filming is a documentary on white privilege to see if it exists or if it's a fantasy that people are just making up in their heads. What do you think? I think it's something they're making up in their heads. You don't think it exists? I have the same problem. Just the. The other guys had and what other guys, other guys, black, white, Hispanic, you know, right. I think everybody makes their own choices.

You were surprised about that? I was surprised. Really? Yes. Because privileged to a lot of people is related to money.

That's how I thought of it. Right. Right. And I read a line in a book and that said, to many people, equality feels like a loss. Right. And that's the moment. That was the line. I'm very big on one line. Take race. Equality feels like a loss. And then I thought, what would I be willing to give up in in the name of equality. Right.

If I really were if you were to say to me, hey, give me your house and everything's going to be fair and equal. Oh, sure. Of course I would. Right.

But what would individuals who who have nothing to give might be OK with giving?

I feel like if you're born white, you're born with your foot in the door. Absolutely. I've sat down and broken bread with underprivileged white people. Right.

So I could see how there would be white people in America that would say, I don't know how I'm paying my bills. I don't know how I'm going to get my kid into college privilege. Oh, he is struggling. What are you talking about? And I think that's a defining word, the struggle. I've had hard times in my life, but I've never struggled to eat, to have food on the table, worried about my next job in a real way.

Right.

But there are a lot of white people in this country that do.

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not saying white people. Yeah, absolutely. But that's a good word to use. And it is intimidating because people don't want to get out of their comfort zones that people say, I don't I don't see racism. It's because you don't know any black people. So when would you witness it?

So have you come up with a definition that you feel really describes white privilege?

I always use the example that, you know, we're going into a grocery store as a white person is totally different than going into the grocery store. As a black person. No one's looking at you, which is screw up. No one's looking at you to take something. No one suspects anything, do you? Every time I've walked out of grocery stores because the line was too long and I didn't feel like waiting, I was like, this is annoying.

I'm just going to take it and shoplifted. I mean, talk about entitlement and privilege. I just knew I wouldn't get caught.

But when when you were talking to that group of Republican women in the documentary, to me that was.

I can't get it out, I felt like, are you living under a rock? There was not only an awareness but a righteousness about it, righteousness. And just as I'm concerned.

Yeah, I didn't get anywhere by being white and having a privilege. I got there because I worked my ass off. Right. So, OK, I can respect that. Yeah. What's your what's your situation? My take on the white privilege thing is, I mean, if we're going to say there's white privilege, then you would have to say that there's some form of privilege for any race or any gender, any religion. If you're an attractive woman, you have a privilege.

I think there's all different kinds of privileges. I mean, I don't know. Privilege is the right word. Do you think black people have privilege in every race? Like I said, privilege to people of color get a college admission now. Yeah, OK. I mean, that's kind of a big one. That's about a certain percentage have to be hired. You think that's wrong?

Not that that's wrong, but you really feel like you need to hire someone based on their skin color. It seems wrong, isn't it kind of the right thing to do to say, hey, let's give people who we were oppressing for so long, a little bit of a head start, a little bit of an opportunity since we've all benefited from those opportunities. I know you don't think that you have. I definitely think I've benefited from the color of my skin.

I don't think I would have gone away with my career if I were a black girl. Part of me thinks it's time to move on and not get off and quit talking about it.

This country, we're in a really, really bad space right now. And, you know, I think a lot of us just like just throw up our hands and don't know what to do. Yeah.

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But if you if you have no close relationship with anybody black, then you're going to be like, well, I don't think you will know. Right. Right. And I think a lot of this whole attitude about racism is minimal and they just need to get over it. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, that is I mean, that's incensing, obviously. And it's also, you know, they don't want to be blamed for, you know, their ancestry. It's like if you can't admit it, right. You know, you're resisting the idea that it's happening. So there is no shame in saying, yes, this is an epidemic. This is terrible. This is a result of, you know, of our history and we have to fix it until everybody can come to the table and say, hey, yeah, this is going on now.

Teach me, learn, let's learn, because that's how I feel. I want to learn more and more and do the right thing.

I had a white friend the other day who said something that was offensive that she didn't know was offensive about another black person's features. And I had to pull my girlfriend over and I was like, you can't do that.

And she said, Tell me what I did.

Yeah, I said, You're Jewish. If I had said, I could tell that you're Jewish because of your nose. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. And you're not going to like this. I but want to tell you because it was a learning point, but I have done things like that in my life. This black woman was standing up singing a song and I went up to her and I said, oh my God, I was beautiful.

And I hugged her and I slapped her on the butt. Oh, really? And yeah, I'm shocked.

I shouldn't jump. Yeah. Yeah, you are.

And so was she. And she said black women have been defined by their hair and their asses for ages. You have no right to touch my body. Right. And she said it's not about your intention. It's about the reception. Yeah. And that was. Oh, it doesn't matter. I smack everybody on the ass. I smack my sisters. I shouldn't be I shouldn't be smacking anybody on their body because it's disrespectful, because I'm not taking into account other people's experiences.

Right. So that was another light bulb moment. So now when I'm like when people are like, wow, I didn't mean anything by it. It's like it doesn't matter if you didn't mean anything by it, it was received that way. You can't deny that that's somebody feeling badly because of your actions. Yeah. This is just such classic white privilege right here, because it's how you move about in the world. It's just a total unawareness.

Totally. Yeah. That for me and and probably my generation that we just are very, very impatient with now. Yeah. So while you're asking me to be compassionate, I'm like, go about with that.

Yeah.

Oh it's OK. We can, we can bloom. Well I've heard a curse like 17 times, but it is so up to white people to fix this problem. It's not right. Exactly. That is part of the vision. I understand that you're fed up. I would be fed up too. I totally get it. I don't have any answers. I don't know what the solution is and I don't know what I want you to do. Right.

Right.

I know what I want done.

I just want some compassion, because at the end of the day, I think the biggest issue is that part of the privilege is that you don't have to give until it's time to give up.

And that comes at different points.

That's what happened today for sure, that I didn't have to. That's exactly right, because I think the biggest issue for me as a white person is that everybody's so scared to ask questions and they're so scared to have uncomfortable conversations. It is hard to say to two black women, hey, what can I say? Like, I want to be you know, I don't I want to be respectful and I want to be inclusive. Tell me how I want to ask those questions because I want to be educated.

Right. I want to ask, you know, any sort of marginalized group, what is the most respectful way to refer to you, to include you? You got to go headfirst into deep things and get in trouble and say stupid things to learn how to say smarter things. But I also think. The economy grew. People to say stupid stuff sometimes, because at the end of the day, what we can't deny as black people is that white privilege has been going on for so long that there is an unconsciousness and not every step with the mouth, not every you know, not every action is racist.

It's just not knowing. And its habits, its bad habits. I did this thing. I remember seeing a black man outside of my house in Ballarat, my neighbor's yard. And I was so over-the-top ridiculous about accepting.

I'm like, hey, what are you doing? Like, why are you like you are too much, like, overly solicitous. And of course, I met with this female director, a black woman, who was like, you know, when you do that, like we know what you're doing and it's annoying.

That's like overcompensating.

It's about starting the conversation. And white people are so defensive about white privilege, because if they admit that they are benefiting from it, then they have to do something about it. Right. Right. White people are they're fragile about this. Right. Right. They're so filled with anger and, yes, with rage. And when you're so filled with anger and you're so filled, you want to put that on something.

And I know that there's so many of us that, you know, it's like white people have the problem. But for me, I just feel like everybody is coming from a different vantage point as well, too. So sometimes it just takes really continuing the conversation for maybe a point of view to really penetrate.

Yeah.

You know, for the idea to actually land so nice when a doorway, like, opens up in your brain and then it leads to all these other doorways.

But that's why I feel like we can't close the door on communication.

Chelsea Right. This has been fantastic. Thank you so much for having me and talking about this. Thank you for welcoming me into your beautiful, gargantuan heart.

Thank you. And thank you to Gammie. Thank you. Thank you for coming on the next round table talk.

The respected evangelical pastor who finally decided to live her truth. Pastor Paul is now Paula as Paul. You were married and I'm assuming that you loved your wife.

It's still her and what her family thinks now. OK, my dad's gone. Yeah, like this is it. There'll always be that pain all in the next round table talk. It's nice to see you happy. Thank you. And just beaming. Now I just got to get my man and I'll be off and running. We got Chelsea here with us. Did he talk about our family? That's that's that's that's the sad part. To join the red table, talk family and become a part of the conversation, follow us at Facebook dot com slash red tabletop.

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