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Hey, guys, I'm Jack O'Brien, cocreator of Crack Dotcom, and with my co-host, Miles Gray, I host the twice daily podcast, The Daily Zica on the Daily Zelikow's. We don't just tell you about the culture. We tell you what that culture says about America's psyche. We don't just tell you about the news. We tell you the historical context and where things are headed, always having hilarious and intelligent guests from the world of comedy.

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So tune in to the daily Zelikow's on the radio app, Apple podcast or wherever fine podcasts are given away.

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Election Day is November 3rd. Between a global pandemic and voter suppression efforts. It's critical to help every American register to vote and ensure that every last vote counts, which includes encouraging as many Americans as possible to request a vote by mail vote. Save America. Dotcom is a one stop shop for voter registration and engagement and has created an amazing hub that compiles the tools you need to request your vote by mail ballot early to volunteer to call voters or to be a poll worker and much more.

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Please visit, vote, save America dot com right now to get involved with every last vote, pay färm.

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Jada Pinkett Smith. And this is the Red Tablecloth podcast. All your favorite episodes from the Facebook Watch show in audio produced by Westbrooke Audio and I Heart Radio. Please don't forget to write and review on Apple podcasts.

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So I'm excited, but, well, I know you were excited because you a big fan, oh, you are.

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So this is our girlfriend relationships show. We're talking about different women that I wanted to talk to. Gabrielle Union just kept coming into my mind and I was like, Gabrielle with get real, don't speak Gabrielle. And that we're never really girlfriends. We were great associates that at some point that dissolved and for 17 years we have not really spoken.

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You don't even know what you're mad about. Oh, we don't even know. When we got on the phone, I was like, Gabrielle, what happened? She's like, Girl, I don't know. Yeah.

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So today I really want to talk to Gabrielle to just figure out how we as women specifically get here and then how we reunite with them sometimes and sometimes and sometimes sometimes you can't heal it. Right. And this particular episode is about healing, healing. So I don't fan out on me asking for autographs.

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No, you know, you have taught me well, I don't I try not to ask for pictures or autographs and try not to add goofy, that's hard.

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I learned from my mother.

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How are you so happy to meet you? I'm so glad that you came out.

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Come on, we're going to go to the table.

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This house is beautiful. Thank you. I'll let you leave because I'm OK. I got lost. Did you? I got lost. Oh, Michelle.

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We flew right past it.

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So, yeah, we don't walk on over here to the red table stovepipes. There you go.

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You ready? Let's clear this up, please.

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This is a very special show for me because what I decided to do was to make this about creating a new girlfriend. Gabby and I, we had a bit of a break, we don't know how, and she's been open to this healing and she's been open to this conversation because everyone plays a part.

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Everybody plays as well. Yeah, it felt so good on the phone with you to even just go, hey, I'm sorry that I didn't even take the time to talk to you. You know, and then I had to just apologize and just take it to myself, damn jaded with some pettier. But at the same time, go with us where you are to thank God you someplace else. Now, you know I'm not. You know, I could have been like, OK, I know this is super uncomfortable, but I'm a hop in your face and we're going to write talk, right?

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But I was like, OK, yeah.

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Yeah, exactly. And then every time you're like, it's not going to affect my life. Yeah, but it does. And it is because you keep your brain keeps going back there. Yeah.

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Because every time we would see each other we always cordial and always nice. It was always tension. I think it was. Was it last year, maybe two years ago with I and my friend were leaving the White House. Yes.

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Now this is like black people. We're leaving. I was leaving the White House. Barakaat out of jazz. Yeah. And you were walking up and yes. There was that moment of like, do I have to look like Facebook?

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And it was like it's like it was natural for both of us is to be like, yeah, you know, but we were both on our just. Yeah. You know, like, OK, yeah. Yeah. You talk with Barack and Michelle. So what's it's cool. All right. Right. Yeah.

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And even then I was just like, what the hell is that about? And then we saw each other at the NAACP Awards. There was a picture of like, you guys get in. Yeah. Emails. I want to make her feel weird being like.

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You know, the stiffest picture. Oh, man, it's a trip, it's a trip, and it's not even about having to be the best of friends or best girlfriends or what have you. Just simple consideration, respect and knowing a we're in this together.

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It's our own personal healing.

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What happens when two therapists walk into a podcast and then hold people accountable for their advice?

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Hey, I'm Guy Winch. I write the Dear Guy advice column for Ted.

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And I'm Lori Gottlieb. I write the Dear Therapist Advice column for The Atlantic, and we're the host of a new podcast from My Heart radio called Dear Therapists.

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One of the most frustrating things for us as advice columnist is that afterwards no one gets to hear how the advice worked out.

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But on our show, you will we guide people through a consultation and then have them come back to tell us what worked or didn't and what we can all learn from it.

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And I'm glad in a way that it did happen this way because I've learned more about myself and what I will and won't stand for in relationship.

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I don't want to lose sight of the negative feelings that I caused her. I just hope that at some point she can forgive me.

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If you would like to walk into a podcast, email us with your dilemma at Lorean guy. I hope media dot com.

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Subscribe now and listen to Dear Therapist starting July 30th on Apple podcast, the I Heart Radio app, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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I'm John Horn, host of the podcast Hollywood, the sequel. On every episode, we're challenging producers, actors and directors to tell us what's broken in Hollywood and how they'd fix it. Here's producer Ava DuVernay on ending systemic racism.

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A check is not enough. A statement, it's not enough. One black executive is not enough to is not enough. Your company must look like the real world.

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And we're tackling other problems, like keeping everybody safe on set and fixing Hollywood's broken gig economy. Here's Meulen producer Jason Reid. The financial pressure to do less with more in terms of days running a crew 12 to 14 hours, six days a week wasn't a sustainable model before, and it's definitely not a sustainable model. Now listen to Hollywood, the sequel on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. One of the things I found really powerful, you did a speech at Essence just about your journey as far as your healing with female relationships.

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I used to shrink in the presence of other dope, beautiful women. I used to revel in gossip and rumors. I took joy in people's pain and I tap danced on their misery. Real fierce and fearless women celebrate and compliment other women, and we recognize and embrace the notion that their shine in no way diminishes our life and that it actually makes our light shine brighter. I listened to you speak and I'm like Gabs on the path, she's figuring it out, she's in a process.

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So I really want to know what was that moment for you when you realized, OK, enough is enough? I had to hit rock bottom. I had to lose. Everything for me, that was my first marriage, right? Going through a divorce process, I lost my show, my show was canceled and I was having difficult relationships with my before starting my day ones and. It was everyone's fault, but my own. And I literally found myself under my bed with my dog.

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It was like, I don't think I can get away with it because probably what people mean, they've they say they've hit rock bottom. Right. And I started working with A.J. Johnson.

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Can you just explain to a red table family who A.J. Johnson is?

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Aja Johnson is a physical trainer and life coach and also an actress. Yes. And she's been a host at times, but she is a changer of many lives in Hollywood.

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Yes, she is. She's been around a long time. We love her. And with A.J., it was a combination of working out OK. And while in the middle of working out, she would kind of be shouting out questions. And so one day she said, make a happy list. But we were boxing. Got it. She said, tell me ten things that make you happy. And I'm I'm some, but I can't think of anything that makes me have not one thing that makes me happy.

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So she's like, give me give me something, anything like, OK, butter, imitation, crab, ground beef. So butter, imitation crab. And she stops and she's she said, OK, of course your marriage failed.

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Wow. You don't know what makes you happy. Why would you think somebody else knows how to make you happy when you don't know what makes you happy? That part. So we start doing the work and feeling amazing. I'm starting to feel a lot better about myself. Right. And we go to a party and there's you know, this woman walks in L.A. girl. And I start to feel like I'm shrinking and I start reverting to my usual OK, which is when I feel like I'm shrinking, OK?

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And attention is being taken away.

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When I feel like I've got a good outfit on, my hair is done. Yep. I have got enough credit to be seen by I am division. I am deserving of of attention. Right.

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You know when Michelle Obama said you know highroad. Yes. I hate the higher up.

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I hate it. It's like getting on the floor five and four o'clock on a Friday.

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Hey, I know the high road because you don't get the instant gratification. No. You don't know what is on your mind. I know it is not an exact tone.

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And, you know, so I get the attention back on me because I'm talking about the hot girl.

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How is she at this party?

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Who did she do X, Y and Z to, you know, start you start to assassinate someone's character. And she said, OK, wait, I'm gonna stop you right there. Did you get the job that you wanted and my car ride, she said, did your house get bigger? Did your bank account grow? I'm like, what are you talking? She's like, what did you accomplish by tearing that woman down?

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Right. All you did was reveal to everyone in this party what low self-esteem you have or that.

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Right? And it just that was that's what it took. She got me right between the eyes. It was harsh in the moment. But then it was like, damn, I have been communicating through negativity. I've been shrinking other people hoping that I'm growing.

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Yes, I will be the Superfriends Super Mother, super freak, super Sheff's, whatever.

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And when you do all of that, you have nothing left for yourself.

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We've all been there, we've all been there, somebody else comes along and we feel threatened in some form and we feel like we have to shrink somebody else down in order to feel bigger. I have had so much revelation and just the idea of what?

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What it takes to connect to other women and what creates within us the inability to do that. What was the process that you took on in order to.

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I had to call a thing and thing first. And what was that? I'm a hater. I'm a troll. OK, you know, now you would say you're an Internet troll. Come to light. God, the worst part of the comment section of social media. She's like all those negative things that had been happening in your life. Right? It's exactly what you're putting out. You're getting back. Got it. So is that reflection, that mirror.

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And I had to see myself clearly. Right. And it's ugly. It's it's hard. It's painful to recognize that you are the common denominator for the vast majority of your problems.

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Let me tell you something. I've had a couple of years of that looking at somebody else and going, oh, no, no, no, you're the problem. You're the problem. You're the problem.

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But people will tell you that you're keeping it real. Yes. They love it when you point out other people. Absolutely. And while you just sink it. Yeah, it's drowning.

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Yes, exactly. And let me tell you, that was an aha. Moment when I had to do this.

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Oh, no, baby girl. All that you created. And so, yeah. It's so hard.

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It's so hard. It's Devore's. It's not just hard, it's devastating.

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And it's a mourn that death. You thought you were that part. We do need to have girlfriends that are willing to pull our coattails, but in a loving way.

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Well there's some girlfriends I'll use my finger quotes who want to squash you. Right. The goal isn't to watch you evolve, right? The goal is to watch you be miserable. Right. And there's something that is appealing about your misery to that. Right. And then there are the real girlfriends who can be honest in a loving way, because the goal isn't to squash you. The goal is to watch you evolve into the woman that you want actually want to be.

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And again, we also have to be in a space of receiving it in that is now here.

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That's a whole nother thing.

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We got to be ready now because what is right, what is ready even look like, what does it look like? What does it mean? Well, I'll tell you what it was for me, and that was to be ready to receive someone looking at me and going, nah, you're better than that. And I realized that in my life, I just was not willing to have that.

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I was like, no, no, no, no. And it came out of fear because, you know, if you take all that, then we got to be responsible for it. And it's like, no, no, I rather play victim because that is where I get to play small comfort.

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I call it the cloak of victimhood. Yeah. You don't want to take it off. It's like a snugged. I'm like, oh, it's so good. And and people will let you be a victim for your entire life won't they.

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And you wake up and you're seventy and you're like, well. It's been great, and I like that, you know, she was she was an amazing singer, but, you know, that thing happened. Yes. Back in the 60s, too, you know. But people will let you be there because being a victim is also comfortable for everybody else, their part.

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Because when you take accountability for yourself and your own healing, a lot of people lose a little bit of control. It's easier to control a victim than it is to control a highly evolved person.

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Election Day is November 3rd between a global pandemic and voter suppression efforts, it's critical to help every American registered to vote and ensure that every last vote counts, which includes encouraging as many Americans as possible to request a vote by mail vote. Save America. Dotcom is a one stop shop for voter registration and engagement and has created an amazing hub that compiles the tools you need to request your vote by mail ballot early to volunteer to call voters or to be a poll worker and much more.

[00:16:33]

Please visit, vote, save America dot com right now to get involved with every last vote.

[00:16:39]

Hi, I'm Devin Leary. And I'm Carolina Barlowe and we're here to tell you to dump him, break up with your boyfriend and we want you to listen to our podcast, True Romance every week where we talk about our love lives and the love lives of others. Please join our exes who we know will also be listening, like Kyle. Kyle, are you there? Hey, babe, how's life? No, you look good, though. Me?

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Oh, my God. Stop, please. I haven't even gotten a haircut in like three months. OK, please help us pay for Carolina psychiatrist bills by listening on the Hurt radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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I want to. In this process of growth, there have been friends of mine who have kind of fallen off. So have you found that in your church?

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I had to go and I have zero regret.

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I'm still working on that process. I have no. But if you're ready, I'll be over here living my best life and enjoying.

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Who I really am, right, and I see that you are enjoying your misery and will leave you to that right. And I have zero guilt about that.

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So what has been your process in regards to finding your true self with a therapy? Right.

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And silence. Yeah, silence and being OK with my own company and in the stillness, just sitting there and really finding comfort in being alone, I want to tell you that has been for me, the greatest gift to find is that me time?

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And I'm talking about the real deal. Meantime, I'm not talking about an hour in a bathtub.

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I'm talking about days because I did have to get with the fact that I'm a people pleaser. And let me tell you, that was my mother. She's like, you know, you're codependent, right? And that's with everybody. That's what your girlfriends. That's with everybody. That's what you really need to look at your co-dependent. And that was like, I'm not co-dependent.

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I just like people to be happy at my expense and my sanity and peace. Yeah. And you want people to like you. So you say, yes, yes. I will sacrifice my own career to and, you know, to enhance my husband. Yes, I will be the super friend, super mother, super freak, super chef, whatever. Also donate time for, you know, giving blood in the in the homeless and when and when you do all of that so people can call you a good woman or a good friend or a good wife or whatever it is that it takes to be considered amazing, you have nothing left for yourself.

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So how have you dealt with that just in order?

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I say no, I'm no use to be so terrifying because no means of boundary. Right. And if you put up boundaries, maybe people won't come back. They're both wives, we have our own careers and our own thing, but then we also happen to have husbands that have their careers and have their own thing, because when you talk about those sacrifices that will make for our husbands, partners, life partners. But I think as women, we have this fear of, oh, man, if I don't do this, he'll find somebody else.

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He'll do it. And I hate that messaging. And I got to the point. In my own situation, I was like, well, if you can find somebody else to do it, I got to go do it, because for real, I can't do that like that anymore. I have to do more for myself. I have to having the partner that I have. Thank God he came along on the train. I became a new woman.

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I really did. It was quite freeing. Have you had that kind of process in your situation? Because we went through so much in the dating phase. Yeah, that's true. And. The idea that a good woman, right, or a good future wife should have the propensity to handle enormous amounts of pain. Yeah, and that's what makes you a good wife. When we got married, we had to redefine that as an evolved person, as a healed person.

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I'm not interested in pain and I'm not interested in hurting you either. I married somebody dream. It was like I married D Wade and I have a marriage with Dwayne Tyrone Wade Jr. He go and I'm still getting to know him.

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Yes. And I'm in a amazing friendship marriage with.

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This beautiful man that I didn't even know existed. Just explain to me a little bit of why the Metoo movement is important to you. It's incredibly personal, right? Me to write. When I was 19, I was raped at gunpoint at my after school job and. It speaks to me because I had to figure out how to go from victim to survivor. Yeah. And kind of at times feeling very alone in that feeling like I was screaming into a hurricane and no one was was hearing me.

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And with the Metoo movement, I feel like I found my people. It's a tribe I never wanted to be in, but now that I'm here, I'm so happy to know that there's other people who want to be healed, who want to get justice, who want to unleash and unload their pain. And I and I want to be a voice for some of the voiceless. I thank God for the metoo movement because so many people have just been suffering in silence.

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I want you to know I really I commend you for having the courage to talk about it in the way that you have. I really thank you for that. It's working. Like I told you on the phone, this is my year growth. I'm really just in my life just cleaning up a lot of stuff, and you were one of them having this moment with you is helping me in that process.

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Well, I told you on the phone it was like a gorilla hopped off my back, but I didn't even know it was there. Right. And I needed I needed that. I needed I need to do so.

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Thank you. Thank you.

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This has been beautiful and I hope from here on out that we have a bond and, you know, you can call on me for anything. And thank you for just being open to this.

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And thank you guys for being here with us at the table and please comment about what you saw today and, you know, tell us your story.

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And I want to hear. I want to see you. I want to. I want to know. Yeah, for sure. So just let us know. These are tough journeys. But they're they're worth it. They are worth it. Most definitely.

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All right. Let's get Gabe out of here. She's been here long enough, but thank you guys for making this easy. I hope it was easy opening your home. Yes, I hope it was easy. Mama. Let's have a look on our next round table talk, we are talking about parenting women that were warring over Janet.

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I don't want to be like everybody else. I get it. It's just so simple. I remember will call me. And he was like, have you talked about this with Jane and him wearing a skirt?

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Eighty six on the video that wanted you to have something super special when you came here, something special that just reminded you always of how special you are, how grateful I am that you have been so open to this process. And so I wanted to give you something as a memory.

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Yes. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Are you kidding me? No. Thank you. I want to put it on you, let this key be a reminder that you are the key to your power.

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Yeah, that looks so beautiful on you. You are so welcome.

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So, Gab, before you leave, can I get a picture?

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Of course, yeah, you realize it's OK to join the red table, talk family and become a part of the conversation. Follow us at Facebook. Dot com slash red tabletop. Thanks for listening to this episode of Red Tablecloth podcast produced by Facebook. Watch Westbrooke Audio and I Heart Radio.

[00:25:35]

Everybody has a podcast. All right. Every celebrity, every what you do in college, there are literally hundreds of thousands of podcasts out there.

[00:25:44]

And yeah, it's a bit of a mess. I'm Nick Quaff and my new show, Servant of Pot. We'll give you the most interesting and important stories in podcasting. And I'll tell you why you should care to listen to serve in a pod on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[00:26:05]

I'm John Horn, host of the podcast Hollywood, the sequel. On every episode, we're challenging producers, actors and directors to tell us what's broken in Hollywood and how they'd fix it. Here's producer Ava DuVernay on ending systemic racism.

[00:26:20]

It's is not enough a statement. It's not enough. One black executive is not enough to is not enough. Your company must look like the real world.

[00:26:29]

And we're tackling other problems, like keeping everybody safe on set and fixing Hollywood's broken gig economy. Here's Meulen producer Jason Reid. The financial pressure to do less with more interns days running. A crew of 12 to 14 hours, six days a week wasn't a sustainable model before, and it's definitely not a sustainable model. Now listen to Hollywood, the sequel on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.