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I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the Red Tablecloth podcast. All your favorite episodes from the Facebook Watch show in audio produced by Westbrooke Audio and I hate radio. Please don't forget to write and review on Apple podcasts. So, yeah, I'm really looking forward to to today's show, we haven't talked in a long time. She reached out to me, which was really huge of her, because I really don't know if I'm that big hook.
Sometimes when wounds are still fresh, it can it definitely can create tension.
I'm really going to have to have my listening ears on and really just listen and really understand her side versus being defensive for years has been rumored that I was a Scientologist because I took some courses at the church and was interested in study tech, one of the organizations teaching methods.
I also opened a school that used to study tech, which added to the speculation Leah Remini was a Scientologist her whole life.
Our problem started when she included a story about a party we both attended in her memoir.
Her experience that night was different than mine, and when asked about it on Andy Cohen's Bravo show, I explained what I remembered from that evening. I know she kind of made it seem kind of weird, right.
But it really wasn't like you had issues with my response. And from there, our private disagreement became a public battle.
We haven't talked in years, but she's coming to the red table so we can finally hear each other out.
Oh, yeah, Tomala, yellow and red, yellow and Red Bull ready to sing about the event on Saturday.
We got two minutes so we might as well talk. Here's my position.
People are suffering bad, you know, and when I look at live, like whatever she experienced with the Church of Scientology hurt her bad and hurt people, hurt people. And she took a shot at us out of pain. She was hurt and she started taking shots at us, and I commend you, babe, for taking on these these kinds of topics.
But, you know, I got to give you props because she opened the door. Yeah. You know, she made the first move towards a reconciliation. So is Leah OK?
Was Wassan, I like your operation, I would thank you for coming.
Oh, my God, my pleasure. You look gorgeous. You do, and you always do. You got that skin.
Well, you know, you might have to see.
Yes, yes. Yes, yes. Oh, yes, I know. I know. I really want to say I really I want to start out by thanking you for even like. For this, it says a lot to me, and so it I come with that, I come with this open heart and I know that you invited me with an open heart.
So definitely and this is actually the first time that I'll actually be talking about my involvement with the church or what have you.
And I want to say thank you to you first, because you actually opened the door for this.
You did OK. Yes, I was. Your communication with Dwayne. Yeah. Just to get you guys up to speed, Dwayne Martin, who we're making reference to right now, happens to be a mutual friend of Lee and I both. I remember the first time I met you was 20 years ago, and then we reconnected at Church of Scientology and I went off and did my thing, you eventually went off and did your thing and then you wrote a book.
And that upset me because I didn't understand why we had to be in your book, because, you know, we really didn't have anything to do with this. And there were headlines about Scientology and hide and go seek Atom's and how will I not have participated? And I was hurt. Yeah, but I never said anything. Bajada, I wasn't even considering that you would be hurt. Like I literally looking back on it, I didn't even consider Jada and Will.
I was going in hard on my rightness. And then I looked at it and I said, What responsibility do I have? Can I take your word for upsetting somebody that I actually really care about? And I'm sorry that I didn't consider you because I didn't I was I was so caught up in the I don't want to cry. I was just caught up in that pain. Yeah, right. Yeah. And also the pain of others and the effects that it had.
And, you know, I come from a world of of fighting, you know, and I don't know that that was particularly your experience with Scientology, but. My world fully indoctrinated as a child. There's a lot of anger and there's a lot of fighting, and that is what I was raised with my just a lot of the world is bad. Everyone who's not a Scientologist is bad. Now, what I do know for a fact is you've really didn't know Leah 100 percent, because what we're taught is to act a certain way around other celebrities.
And when the thing happened on on Bravo, like I was flawed, I was really, really like, wow, just not only is she in Scientology, but now they sent Jada out.
Right. Right. I guess that's that's the secret. That's that's why it's really like each other. I'm sure you've been asked this before because Leah Remini in her book talked about like a game of hide and seek at your house with Tom Cruise. It was Tom. So was Tom's hide and seek with everybody, which she didn't want to play or it didn't happen rides.
Did you have you played? You didn't see. This is when our kids were really small. OK, Tom love games. That was the whole point of Tom was just fun like that. So I know she kind of made it seem kind of weird. Right. But it really wasn't.
It was just a bunch of us goofing off with our kids and got playing silly games. There's always a back story. There's always a back story. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, I hope this has been a fun girls trip to the clubhouse.
He doesn't tell you what he's going to talk about. Right. He just throws stuff at you, you know. And so when that came up, I was like, that's not how I remember that night going, you know? And I my producer told me that you felt like I wasn't supportive of you. And I just want you to know that you had basically created a situation for Will and now. And I didn't know that.
I know. I didn't know that. Right. I'm not clear on that. So I'm just giving you that where I was in that in that framework of why you might have felt as if I didn't have your back. Right. You know what I'm saying? Because at that point, I'm like, I got to protect Will and I when the thing happened on on Bravo.
And I should also tell you this, and I don't know if you really do know this, but Scientology is policies fair game. Right. And that's to discredit and attack anyone who's speaking out against the abuses of Scientology. But I was like, oh, my God. Like, she's even more than I had thought, you know, so and I was wrong. So when I saw somebody had tweeted me and said, why is Jada throwing to you?
I was like, wait, what? So when I saw it, I was hurt because like, oh, she's. Oh, so she's in she's fair game. Me. Fair Game is a policy in Scientology that calls for the utter destruction of a critic of Scientology. That it. So the thing to do there's there's you get trained on how to do this, you first deal with it with a laugh, you know, like it's boring, it's not worth watching or not worth reading.
And the second thing is to discredit the facts. That's why I said that as a Scientologist, because there's no reason for Jada to be doing that other than fair game. Yeah.
And, you know, I want to apologize to you because, you know, I'd never just so you know, I wasn't fair game on you on Indico, but it was textbook that I took literally.
It was just like, OK, that's not how I remember that happening. Right. I want to acknowledge that I hurt your feelings.
And that's the last thing I want to do.
Hey, I'm Steve Greenberg, the host of Eyharts new podcast, Speed of Sound. Speed of Sound is a music history podcast that gives you an all access pass into the songs and sounds that have become the soundtrack to our lives. You'll hear how the hits really hit the top of the charts straight from the artists and innovators who created them from groundbreaking cultural shifts like the teen pop explosion of the mid 90s to dance crazes like the Twist and disco.
I wouldn't do that song. And she fired me, which was perfectly fine. I didn't want to go down. The guy with great Aretha Franklin disco record will delve into left field pop music phenomena like the monster mash and even who let the dogs out, a guy barking and singing about dogs. I thought, this has got to be a joke. We'll take you back in time and straight through today's charts to tackle Pop's top songs and most sensational scandal filled stories.
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I don't get any joy out of hurting people, but I really don't. And when I saw that you made that statement, I was like, OK, yeah, I felt the need to respond to something that I thought was untrue and was an attack. And listen, this is why it's so important just to have communication, right?
Because this was just a big ass misunderstanding, because you saw me at the Scientology Center, Will, and I always being accused of being a Scientologist in this and being that right. And what's.
And the crazy thing is, is that that is literally if we walked into my library right now. Yeah. Like I love religion because I grew up in the ethical society. So my grandmother was like, you're going to learn all the religions and then you got to decide which one. Yeah. You want to practice love. So for me, all religions have been my home. Sure. Which is why I didn't have a problem going to the Church of Scientology and saying I'm not a Scientologist.
I want to just be here and see what you have to offer. Right. Because that was my life. That's what I'm used to, you know what I mean?
So but I totally see with in your shoes your reality, how you could see me the way that you did, right? Yeah.
I always took the position that I'm here at the Scientology Center to learn what I want to learn. And I have no interest in being a Scientologist. And one of the things that I really prided myself in was to be able to be amongst that group of Scientologists. Right. And still hold my own in regards to. No, no, no, no. You can't tell me that I'm this because I've read past this page, right? No, no, no, no.
I'll tell you if I decide to do that. And you were allowed to do that, right? Because. Oh, yeah. Who you are and who your husband is.
Yeah. And regardless of what was being presented to you from me as a friend, you are seeing a side of me that wasn't one hundred percent authentic because my job was to always be a perfect person in front of you or any celebrity to solely get you into Scientology, fully indoctrinated my fully on board and deserting any other beliefs or or systems of learning. You know, you cannot dabble in Scientology.
I just never got any of that. Like, I wish you wouldn't. Yeah, I never of course you wouldn't. Right.
First of all, your jader that's number one on its own ever to your marriage will. So there's a certain protocol and there's certain things you would not see you would not be privy to. So when I saw you, when we became friendly, I was like, here's one person. Here's all the bad ass chick who is a lover, but also will, you know, put you in your place by then. The wedding. Oh, yeah. We had the it was the wedding.
Tom and Kate's wedding.
Right. So the wedding together. And I'm like, tired. I have a newborn baby, so I'm not really excited about sitting down to a tea course meal, but I can't say any of that. If I say anything, that's critical. I would have gotten my ass handed to me had I been critical of anything that was happening at that wedding. Right. And I have people listening to everything that I'm saying after the wedding. Yeah, I get sent to Florida.
OK, for interrogation for three months, because I was saying things at the wedding, like, where is Shelly Miscavige, the leader's wife? I when I got home to L.A., I had a stack of reports written on me, internal reports from Scientologist. Saying that I was this at the wedding, I was that I was like, oh my God, this is what's happening. Why am I getting all these people? I know? I remember that because I do remember when I got home and.
All that was happened, I was like, you know what, good solier, no, really like the fact that where is your friend?
Where is she?
You know, and I had a lot of respect for the fact that you would not give up on that question.
Well, it's still not answer today, despite me. Hire a lawyer and that lawyer through the Public Information Act trying to get information. We are still being stonewalled today about where is Shelly Miscavige leader's wife, I guess, in three months. This is when I'm on hiatus for King of Queens and I spend my time literally being interrogated for three months. What are your evil intentions towards David Miscavige? What are your even tend toward Scientology, like battering me for three months?
And until I said I didn't see the things that I said I saw. I'm sorry, the wife is not missing. Was I able to leave? And then I went back to work, but I was interrogated for years. For years and punish for years, and it took me six years to extract myself out of it, and then I wrote the book.
Got it. And then you wrote the book, OK?
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Look, I know what sports fans want. You want the fluff, the list, the hot takes, but I give you what you need. I can't say that I'm going to be right all the time, but unlike the rest of these shock jocks, I'm always real. Let me tell you something. Patrick Mahomes is not the Michael Jordan of football, but he is the Steph Curry. And you know what else? Johnny's pulling a Kevin Durant and leaving the small market bucks to build a super team would be great for the NBA.
These are just the facts. Folks, do yourself a favor and listen to Street Fire with Jason McIntyre on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Lisa is such a trip, so now and listening to your experience and everything that you went through. I totally understand how we got into that clash. Yeah, you know, and. It just it's just showing me over and over again at that. How kindness is always the way, because you don't know what people are going through, right, period.
And I really, truly, deeply apologize. I should have thought about. The names in the book, I should have thought about what that meant for you guys and I didn't. OK. I love you anyway, and I love you, I love you anyway. Yeah, so the other thing that I'm learning from this is just having the courage to show that vulnerability is not easy, because when you do, especially as women. Yeah. You know, we're we need to stick together.
We don't see a whole lot of that, you know, publicly.
You know, both of us are strong freakin warriors. Yes. You know, and it takes a little softness and gentleness to to just lay it down and the moment. The moment the way Martin said to me that you reached out to him, I was like, I'm going to grab this moment. Thank you. But it was you. Do you know that you were really such a huge person in this because. I don't think I would have done that right, but you did, and that is that's huge.
I'm damn near 50 kind of feeling like I'm just for the first time really finding out who I really am as opposed to what has been taught to me. Right. It's even just being a mom now because my daughter is now the most important thing, you know.
Well, you hope you also learn unselfish as all hell. And I realize that a lot. Right. OK, even when she's talking to me than a day, I'm like, is she still like she's just looking at me like like it's a run on sentence, like. And I'm like, isn't that amazing? Right. She just got me out of my self-absorbed little world that I'm in. Right. And there's such a gift in that way. Absolutely.
I have to tell you, my daughter has taught me so much and I really had to learn through my kids how to access my more vulnerable side, you know, because they happen to be super affectionate kids. And I didn't grow up that way, you know. And so my journey has been through my children to get to just that goofy, vulnerable, softs, you know, because how we both have grown up.
I can see that you've had some tough. Things to deal with, and I know you have to, and so it creates that kind of hard exterior. I realized through therapy that I have to deal with the pain, why I wasn't allowed to deal with pain in Scientology. I'm dealing now for the first time in my life in therapy. That I do have pain from not having a father, but I've never dealt with the pain of him. I just pushed it aside.
I go, well, that's just a bad father. Many people have bad fathers, but I never really saw that. That might be dictating how I look at men, how I treat men.
Yeah, that is an argument because I've had to deal with my father issues and and and in that way of just not bringing the stuff that I went through with my father and to my. Yes. Relationship with Will or my sons. Yes. You know, so I totally hear you on that. Yeah.
It's a lot of that is dealing with that childhood trauma that I never really dealt with and being ripped from my home and my life and going into Scientology. Right. And I have of course, I fight. I had to fight because I didn't have somebody fighting. Right. And that's what I'm starting to learn. You don't need to fight every fight because I've not had third seasons of shows because I was climbing over a table. In a boardroom going, I will punch you in your eye, don't give a shit about the show and I'm proud of that side of myself because I don't put up with this business.
Right. But I was I said I don't actually like that side of me. I like the intention behind it, but I don't like the way I'm coming in like a fighter. Got it. I don't mind being it, but not a damn business meeting.
See, I told it.
You know what I so get it is the little razor inside.
Yes. When I turn 40, I had a just a complete and utter mid-life crisis. Like everything in my life was just upside down.
And I was like, I'm ready to take off the vest with explosives because literally that's how I had been walking around all my life. Like, say something else, I'll blow us all the. Exactly.
I have the same mentality. And it's is from all that pain. Yes. And it's just that little girl in this rage.
And I don't know how to get past the moment when it happens. Right. And so with my therapist, she said, you're missing something. You just need to find out what you're missing. Why just in those moments, just ask yourself or ask the person that saying these things or antagonizing you. I'm sorry, what are we missing here? What do you think? I don't understand.
That's the lesson. Yeah. Good lesson. Yeah. Because I would definitely say you showed me that today. Like, I totally. I missed it, I missed it, too, right? It's a beautiful thing, you know, and I say that's just never too late, you know, for friends, for families, you know, it's just never too late to heal live.
Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Thank you. I want to hug you. I want to hug you back. This is great. Yes, thank you. On our next round table talk, why black women and white women have such a difficult time.
Women of color. Sometimes I feel like they don't want to be my friend. I'm not interested. Oh, get over the idea that you are white.
There's one race.
You know what? You need to shut up, will you, after you grow up in their car. Are you going to make this what happens when you get old?
It's so good to see you and I am sorry, I really didn't mean.
It's all good to join the red table, talk family and become a part of the conversation. Follow us at Facebook. Dot com slash red tabletop. Thanks for listening to this episode of Red Tablecloth podcast produced by Facebook. Watch Westbrooke Audio and I Heart Radio.
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