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In need of a cocktail and a good laugh, tune in to our podcast, two guys from Hollywood. I'm Alan Nevins, a literary agent and manager. And I'm Joey Santos, a columnist and celebrity chef. Join us as we host weekly conversations with our friends, clients and contemporaries to discuss the realities of working and living in Los Angeles from show runners, a show stopper of Real Housewives, The Historia. We're serving up stories, knowledge and, of course, cocktail recipes you won't want to miss.

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We don't dish, we serve. So grab a drink and join us each week on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to a podcast. We'll talk to you soon.

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The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is your space to explore mental health, personal development and all of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Hardan Brantford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. And I can't wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday. Listen to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

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Take good care. Pay fam.

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I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the Red Tablecloth podcast. All your favorite episodes from the Facebook Watch show in audio produced by Westbrooke Audio and I hate radio. Please don't forget to write and review on Apple podcasts.

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It was the scandal that sparked national outrage, landed her famous parents in prison and tore her life apart. In March twenty nineteen, Olivia Jade was a successful lifestyle and beauty influencer with major brand deals, even her own makeup line. This is Olivia J.

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But during her freshman year at the University of Southern California, Olivia's world came crashing down.

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Her parents, actress Lori Loughlin, known to a generation as Aunt Becky from full house and fashion designer Massimo Jandali, were arrested.

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I'm definitely ready to address some things.

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Her parents were among dozens charged for bribing and cheating to get their kids into top universities. We're here today to announce charges in the largest college admissions scam ever prosecuted by the Department of Justice.

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Lori and Mossimo had hired college counselor Rick Singer, the mastermind behind the illegal college scheme. The couple allegedly paid five hundred thousand dollars to get their daughters in USC. Olivia was at the center of the scandal.

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She was vilified for her entitlement, fired from brands and removed herself from public life. Her parents are now in federal prison today. Olivia is finally ready to break her silence and address the controversy. Do you have any understanding of why I would be upset at your being here is like child, please.

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We are about to meet with the young lady, Olivia Jade. A lot of people are going to have a lot of opinions about her story. She called an. Wanted to come to our table and we all had very different feelings about it. Yeah, yeah. You know, I fought it to tooth and nail. I just found it really ironic that she chose three black women to reach out to for her redemption story.

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I feel like here are a white woman coming to black women for support when we don't get the same from them. It's just it's it's bothersome to me on so many levels. Her being here is the epitome of white privilege, privilege to me. I understand where you're coming from. But let me just be clear. I never want to be the thing that was done to me by white women. I never want to be there. OK. I also believe that these are the kind that attitudes that feed the same thing that we're fighting.

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It's like people look at us, they say you're black and you're female. They automatically put us in a category. So looking at her as being white, young and privileged and then putting her in a category, it's the same thing. So I just see it as this cycle, it's not our responsibility to raise her consciousness.

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That's going to be lots of people that agree with you 100 percent. And we don't get heat. Yeah, yeah. We all get heat.

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I also feel like this is a practice of compassion to me. This young girl is reaping the repercussions of some actions of our parents when I heard her story. It just reminded me of Jade and Willow and try it didn't remind me of them at all.

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It did for me as a parent, I'm like, Oh, I've been in that position with me thinking I know what's best for my kids. And then they suffer the consequence of it. So you think that she didn't understand what was going on because they did the same thing for her sister?

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Bottom line, we can't act like we know exactly what happened. At the end of the day, I really feel like she's going to be OK, you know, and she's going to recover whether her ass was sitting at this table and that maybe maybe not.

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That's not something that we can say is like this. Just because you have privilege, it doesn't exempt you.

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The fact that Willow for so long suffered in silence and even turned to self harming herself because she didn't feel like she had a right to be hurt. I've had to deal with that part as well. People go, your kids are going to be fine because they're rich. We don't care. And that's painful. And it's not true. Exactly.

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I feel like that Libya deserves a space.

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Obviously you do, because I fought it. And guess what? She will be sitting right there. That's what this table is about. This tape is about growth.

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What I'm trying to do, listening to both of you guys is I'm sitting in between the two truths and going, OK, there has to be a way that these can blend little to emerge just a little bit because both are 100 percent valid and true in their words. My feelings are what they are. And and that's OK. Totally.

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Yeah. So let's carry on. It's safe to say 2020 was one of the most difficult years ever for so many, and these remain very challenging times. That's why I'm here to ask you, how can I help? My name is Dr. Gail Saltz, host of the new weekly podcast, How Can I Help with Dr. Gail Saltz, brought to you by the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio. I'm a clinical associate professor of psychiatry at the New York Presbyterian Hospital, a psychoanalyst, bestselling author.

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And I'm here to help. Join me every Friday where you can ask your most pressing questions and get helpful guidance on topics ranging from coping with anxiety and mood relationships to family and parenting issues, to workplace dynamics, to dealing with covid fatigue and everything in between.

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While it has been a tough time, you don't have to navigate it alone. So how can I help? You can send your questions anonymously to me at how can I help at Seneca Women Dotcom and I will answer with specific advice and understanding. Listen to how can I help with Dr. Gail Saltz on the I Heart radio app, on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

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The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is your space to explore mental health, personal development and all of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Hardan Brantford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. And I can't wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday. Listen to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

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Take good care of the red tape.

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OK?

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All right, let's shall we bring a chair? Hi. Their hair is racing out of fire. Welcome at the table. How is everybody? Everybody is good. How are you feeling? I'm nervous. You I should feel my heart. It's like. But I'm excited. I think I'm definitely ready to address some things and I can't think of a better place. So thank you for having me. What made you want to come to the table?

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I think that this has been like a really eye opening experience for me and situation. And although there's a lot of negative around it and there's a lot of mistakes and wrongdoings, it's led me to have a completely different outlook on a lot of situations.

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Right. I also felt like I wanted to be somewhere where I didn't feel like attacked and maybe I could feel more understood. I've watched the show and I think you guys are all amazing and it feels really safe. Yeah, but it also feels honest and it feels like we're going to all lay it out here and it's going to be like an open conversation, which is really important to me as well.

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Got it. Yeah. Your mom's been in prison for a few weeks yet. Your dad just went. Yes. Has that been. It's been hard, I think for anybody.

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No matter what the situation is, you don't want to see your parents go to prison. Yeah, but also, I think it's necessary for us to move on. Right. And move forward. So before they went, did you on that have any conversation about the circumstances and what went on?

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We definitely did. I think that what hasn't been super public is that there is no justifying or excusing what happened because what happened was wrong. And I think every single person in my family can be like that was messed up. That was a big mistake. But I think what's so important to me is like to learn from the mistake, not to now be shamed and punished and never given a second chance because I'm twenty one, I feel like I deserve a second chance to redeem myself, to show I've grown.

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Can you talk to them while they're in prison? I actually haven't spoken to either of them there. There's a quarantine phase just because of covid, so I think that is the reason. But I'm not too. I just haven't heard anything, so I'm just waiting. Oh, wow. Yeah.

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How does that make you feel? It's so I've never gone that long with that, I'm super close with my parents, especially my mom, she's like my best friend. So it's definitely been really hard not being able to talk to her. But I know she's strong and I know it's a good reflection, period. I'm trying to look at the positives and situations, you know, totally. And I know that it's a positive that she's in there right now.

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She gets to really rethink everything that happened, kind of figure out, you know, when she comes out what she wants to do with what she's learned through all of this. Right. And I think that hopefully will be a blessing in the end.

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When you first heard about your parents arrest you on spring break, right? Mm hmm.

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I just remember getting a call and it was like, hey, Liv, have you talked to your mom? I was like, no, why? And they were like, well, I'll just let you talk to her. And then. Call me back if I hang up the phone and I had this really weird gut feeling, I didn't know what she was talking about, but I was like, I'm just going to search my mom's name up. Then it's everywhere.

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And I was sitting with a group of friends, and I knew any second everybody was going to know to write if they didn't already. And I remember just like freezing and feeling so ashamed, I went home and hid myself for probably like three or four months and school was still in session like I was technically after spring break, I was going back to school and I felt so ashamed and embarrassed. And although I didn't really 100 percent understand what just had happened, because there was a lot that when I was applying, I was not fully aware of what was going on.

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Right. So when I got home, I just felt so ashamed. I was like, I can't go back there. This is wrong. But I just remember feeling embarrassed, ashamed and getting the hell home. And did you go back to school or did you decide not to return?

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Yeah, I never went back. I was too embarrassed. Yeah. Yeah, I was I you know, I shouldn't have been there in the first place, clearly. So there was no point in me trying to go back.

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What was some of the repercussions throughout this whole situation? Because you're a beautiful young white woman who's been born into privilege.

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Right. And so there would be some people that would feel like she'll be fine, like I feel that way.

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Right.

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Clearly, I feel like you will be fine. Right.

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And that there are other people that wouldn't be fine. Right. Right.

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That's why it's hard, because I'm not trying to come across like, oh, this situation.

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Like, I'm not trying to victimize myself. I don't want pity. I don't deserve pity. We messed up. I just want a second chance to be like I recognize I messed up. And for so long I wasn't able to talk about this because of the legalities behind it. I never got to say I'm really sorry that this happened or I really own that this was a big mess up on everybody's part. But I think everybody feels that way in my family right now.

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What do you think has been the most hurtful for you emotionally in this whole situation?

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I felt mostly like embarrassed and ashamed of everything that's happened and things I've lost. I guess just from looking as an outsider, you could say I lost grandioso, I lost followers or whatever it was.

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But I, I really felt most moved by the fact that we. Did all of this and we're so ignorant and I feel like a huge part of having privilege is not knowing you have privilege. And so when it was happening, it didn't feel wrong. It didn't feel like that's not fair. A lot of people don't have that. I was in my own little bubble focusing about my comfortable world. I never had to look outside of that bubble. I also felt very misunderstood.

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The picture that has been painted of me. I feel like it's not who I am. I'm not this ratty girl that doesn't want to change anything. Also, I understand why people are angry and I understand when people say hurtful things. And I would too, if I wasn't in my boat when I think I had to go through the backlash and the stuff, because when you read it, you realize that there's like some truth in it. I understood that people were upset and angry and maybe it took me a little bit longer to understand what for.

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Right. But man, am I glad I did realize for better late than never.

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So what have you learned specifically when all this first happened and it became public? I, I remember thinking which my thoughts are completely different now, but I remember thinking, how are people mad about this? Like, I know that sounds so silly, but in the in the bubble that I grew up in, I didn't know so much outside of it. And a lot of kids in that bubble, their parents were donating to schools and doing stuff that advantage.

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So many advantages. It's not fair and it's not right. But it was happening. Right. And so when this first came out, I was like, I don't really understand what's wrong with this. Like, I'm not I'm not understand this. Was it because what was going on look like to you that it was just this is what happens. Everybody does is normal. But I don't realize at the time that's privilege. I didn't I didn't put those two together.

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I was like, oh, this is what everybody does. And my parents worked really hard. And I don't understand. But that's not that's not how it should be. And unfortunately, that's how it was. And I'm grateful for the situation to see that big change in that big difference in my own mind to know, like, OK, Levere, the fact that you were on YouTube and you were saying stuff like, I don't want to go to school, I just want to go party at school.

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I don't know how much of school I'm going to attend, but I'm going to go in and talk to my deans and everyone. And I hope that I can try and balance it all. But I do want the experience of, like, game days partying. I don't really care about school, like the fact that you even could say those things just shows how fortunate you were that you don't have to worry about that. You knew you were going to be OK without it.

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And that sits with me and makes me cringe.

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And it's embarrassing that I ever said those types of things and only said them, but edited it, uploaded it, and then saw their response to realize it was wrong.

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Why there was no, like, malicious intent behind it. Right. I was never trying to hurt anybody or say those things to brag about my life. It was just I was oblivious. Right.

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And it just a level of unconsciousness. Yeah, completely. And it's like I sit here now and I'm like, how? I don't like how don't you realize stuff like that. That's embarrassing that that did fly over your head. But so let me ask you if you have a clear understanding of what white privilege really is.

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Now, I understand that I just based off my skin color. I already had my foot in the door and I was already ahead of everybody else. Right. I think one hundred percent. I can recognize that going forward. I do want to do stuff to change that and to help that. And I had a really cool experience a few weeks back where I went downtown in the Watts area and I got to work with some kids in this after school program.

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And it was kind of just shifted my whole mentality, because when I was sitting with them and talking to them and they were they all were so little, but they were so grateful for that education, that after school place that they could go away from their neighborhood to come back and have a little freedom and focus on their schoolwork. And I was watching all of them and I was thinking about my situation and that I took all of that for granted.

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I didn't think that I was lucky to have that. I just expected it because that's what I grew up around. So it was a big shift in my head knowing like, OK, let's kind of start recognizing where the wrongs are and that I was looking for something to work with because I haven't been doing much. And I'm like, I want to work with something and feel good and I want to give not to give back. Yeah. To children who want is privileged.

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Exactly. And putting time into it too. And I'm just at the beginning and I want to continue doing stuff and finding more things to do, but not just throw money at a problem, you know, like I want to invest myself so I can start taking the time. Yeah. I don't want to act here like I've been doing all like I'm trying, I'm starting, but I'm still learning and it's taken me a minute to do. But I also think I needed to have that understanding in that mindset switch to be genuine while I'm doing stuff.

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Yeah. And I think if I were to come on here a year ago, this would have been a completely different conversation. And so I needed to learn. Yeah.

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So do you understand why different people in the community would be upset? Do you have any understanding of why I would be upset at your being here and what you all did? I would love to hear from you because I feel like it's a good learning thing. I think I can understand how wrong it is. And we had the means to do something and we completely took it and ran with it. And it was something that was wrong. And I think what a lot of people not that it matters because nothing that happened was it really can't be excused like on paper.

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It's bad. It's really bad. But I think what a lot of people don't know is my parents came from a place of just I love my kids. I just want to help my kids, whatever's best for them. I worked my whole life to provide for my family, and I think they thought it was normal. Right. And I think that there was a college counselor involved who seemed legitimate and ended up not being legitimate. And in that community, it was it was it was not out of the ordinary.

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And it's it's embarrassing to say that I didn't know. Yeah, right. What's up, guys?

[00:19:18]

I'm Rishabh allowed. And I am Troy Milligan's. And we are the host of the Ernie Edesia podcast, where we break down business models and examine the latest trends in finance.

[00:19:26]

We talk to the legends of business, sports and entertainment about how they got their start and most importantly, how to make their money early. Elysha is a college business class mixed with pop culture annualise.

[00:19:37]

A podcast is available. Now listen to any of these children. I heart radio app, Apple podcast or whatever you listen to podcast.

[00:19:46]

My name is Rita Kaye. I am Ellen Bernstein Brodsky. This is your grandmother. What's the matter with you?

[00:19:54]

Well, and it is a podcast about the relationship between grandmothers and grandchildren, as my mother would have said, TACA, who wouldn't have wanted a Jewish grandmother?

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Sometimes she accidentally live streams. We're like, who's going to tell her?

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I'm just hearing about this now. Let's you to call your grandmother on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Do you want to express why? This would be upsetting for you just so that she has understanding, you know what I mean, in a totally different perspective, for me, it's like there is so much. Violent dehumanization that the black community has to go through on a daily basis. Yeah, right. There is so much devastation, particularly this year, 20, 20, with the pandemic and everything being brought to the table, just how there's so much inequality.

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Yeah, inequality and inequity that when you come to the table with something like this is like, child, please.

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No, I get that. I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted with everything that we have to deal with as a community. And I just don't have the energy to put into. The fact that you lost your. Endorsements, right, you know, or you're not in school right now, because at the end of the day, you're going to be OK because your parents are going to go in and they're going to do their 60 days and they're going to pay their fine.

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And you guys will go on and you'll be OK and you will live your life right. And there are so many of us that is not going to be that situation. It just makes it very difficult right now for me to care for this atmosphere that we are in right now a year from now. I might feel differently. Mm hmm. But right now in the atmosphere that the world is in, it's very difficult for me. To feel compassionate about you, but I'm trying to and it's and I shouldn't say about you because I don't want you to take it.

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That personally, you know what I mean, it's not really about you, but this is when I am glad, because what I am hearing from you is that there is an interest and a desire to learn and figure out where you fit in the world and what your role is to try to make a difference.

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Here's what I love about this conversation. Makes me very hopeful in the sense of you are in a space and have a really beautiful opportunity to come outside of that bubble and use your knowhow and your resources.

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To serve, it may take you a minute to find out exactly what that niche is for you, right. You know what? It's going to require your willingness to do some education on your own and to really understand white privilege and what's happening in the world today.

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Yeah, I didn't come on here to, like, try and win people over. And I really need people to like me. I just want to apologize for contributing to these social inequalities without maybe not even though I didn't realize it at the time, like being able to come here and recognize that I'm aware. Yes. You know, and that's all we can ask. Listen, we all have levels of unconsciousness. Lord knows, I had so many.

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And then something happens in my life that just smacks me on top of the head, that has to shake me into more awareness. And that's just what life is.

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But the beautiful part is that when we had these experiences that shake us, we listen to the call right when this happened with your parents, I'm sure you were angry or were you angry?

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We're assuming that. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Are you angry or you honest? I wasn't angry at God, and I think it's because I didn't have a good understanding of what just happened. Right. I didn't see the wrong in it. Like a hundred percent honesty when it first happened. I didn't look at it and say, oh, my God, like, how dare we do this? I was like, why is everybody complaining?

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I'm confused what we did. And that's embarrassing to admit. Right? That's embarrassing within itself that I walked around my whole 20 years of life not realizing, like, you have insane privilege. You're like the poster child of white privilege and you had no idea. Right.

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And so I think that although I've had a really strong relationship with my mom and my dad my whole life, I was definitely. Confused when this all came out and I went and confronted them about everything, they didn't really have much to say except like, I'm so sorry, I like, really messed up in trying to give the best to you and your sister.

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Mm hmm.

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And they're my family, and I've known them since I was out of the life. So I know they're good people and I know that I'm not going to judge them for a mistake they made. And although it's a big one lie there, they're going to pay the price for it. And regardless of what people say, I've seen them day in and day out and how they've received all of this. And I know that they've struggled. What do you think it was so important for your parents to have you go to that school?

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I really believe my dad has attachment issues and didn't want us to leave California, for starters. I think he just loves his kids and his daughters and wanted them close. My mom, really, for most of the time when I was applying to school, was in Canada shooting a movie. It was involved in my whole childhood. But when it came to that, she was like, Mos, you handle it. I'm out like, I'm going to work now because she's she put off so much work to raise us.

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Right. So she felt like she got us to an age where we can handle ourselves. And then she went back to working. So I think having us close to home was a big one. I think knowing that she knew a lot of people that went there and how all the amazing experiences she was so tunnel vision on, I just want my kids to have a good college experience and I just want them to have an amazing education. And I know I can give that to them.

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Neither of them went to college, so I think it was important for them. Like we didn't get to have that. I want to give it to you, but they wanted to give it to us a little too much. Right, right. Right.

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How is your sister doing throughout all this? She's also learned a lot and she's kind of more laid back and relaxed. And she's like a little bit, I think, calmer than I am throughout a lot of this in terms of just feeling emotional if like my parents being away or whatever it is. Although I it's hard because I don't want to come across like woe is me, you know, I know people go through way worse. Right. You know, and I don't want that.

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I'm just speaking from my personal experience. I'm still a human with feelings, so, you know. Yeah, but she's good.

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Do you feel like this has brought you to closure?

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Yeah. We also live together and we have like for like around each other's necks all the time because we live together in an apartment. So got it. We're as close as it can be.

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I get it.

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How do your friends feel about what what you've been through?

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Do you have friends who are in the same same state. Right. Oblivion, oblivious parents.

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Yeah. Yeah, I do. And unawareness as you were one hundred percent. They all grew up similar lifestyles.

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None of us are intentionally trying to look the other way. Right. You don't need to address these problems. But we weren't presented these things right. And like you don't know what you don't know.

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I hear what you're saying. But I also recognize to this kind of stuff that I'm talking about has been on the news every day, all day. I'm talking about this state of oblivion, oblivion and unawareness that she and her friends are living in. It sounds like we're putting the responsibility for that on somebody else when it's not there. Young adults and the news is on every day and you have some responsibility in that yourself right now. I can't argue that.

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Yeah. Yeah. So that's, you know, no, I totally understand. But at the same time, there's some acceptance that we have to have around that and having to make room an allowance for change when I also understand we're at.

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No, why don't I give you the chance now to say you understand when you've had all this time? Right. It's been going on for generations. I get all that frustration. Absolutely. It would be a lie to say I've been knowing and working towards equality since when I was this big. It would be a lie to say I was actively doing stuff if I ever heard a comment. Of course, I'm going to speak up and say something I know right from wrong.

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I just didn't think I. I never knew the depth behind it. That makes sense.

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And I want to take the focus off to a little because I put a lot of emphasis on that just for me personally, from the racial point of view, but also just the fact that the measures that were taken to get you into a college or university doesn't have anything to do with race. It's people that have worked hard to earn the right to be in that college. And your parents decision to pay somebody to alter whatever it was that they did.

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You understand what I'm saying? So that doesn't have anything to do with race. That just has to do with financial privilege and entitlement.

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I think what was hard for me, too, is I worked my ass off in high school. I wasn't slacking in high school. I don't want to discredit myself to the point where I was like, I've all this. And then also I didn't care. Like, I really did care. I was always a very involved student. I think that I put a lot of.

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Crossed into a person that claim their profession was college counseling, right, and it led me in a wrong direction and it's not to shift blame, but it's just to explain, like, I wasn't aware of what was going on. Right. I did work hard. And when this did come out, I was a little confused when I saw stuff about what I had written on my application. And I remember writing on my application about my YouTube channel and Videocon.

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And there were two very different things, right. You know, so there was a lot of it that I was like, what?

[00:30:19]

And I'm sitting, you know, reading things online. And I'm like, if only people knew how much how how bad I feel that this happened. I think I want people to understand that I've made a million mistakes. And this one, I think on my family's part, whatever, it was a really big one. But I just want people to know they were just in their heads. It was like everybody has a college counselor and I'm just going to donate to a school like all my friends did with their kids.

[00:30:44]

And and I think what's crazier is that's how so many people in that. In our area, like don't recognize that it's wrong, I think, although it took a crazy experience for me and my family to realize I'm happy that we do know, like that'll never happen when I have kids, that'll never happen. I just hope that people can see that I just want to move forward. And I totally, totally understand if people aren't ready to jump on board with me.

[00:31:09]

But I'm here because I want to leave it on the table. I don't want to keep dragging this throughout my life. I often think if every single person like you reflect on the biggest mistake you ever made, to then have that be so public didn't make it much easier, you know. Yeah. When I was on YouTube, it was. So we'll just come along with my world, like, see where I'm at. Let's just go for my journey.

[00:31:29]

And I know and I go back. I just want to make it very clear and very where like, oh, but there are big problems going on in the world that are outside my bubble and I'm so comfortable that I don't have to go outside of it.

[00:31:39]

So it's making that change of like, yeah, you could sit where you are, wouldn't affect you, but how much better of a person would you be if you used your blessings to help somebody else?

[00:31:49]

What I will say is that I'm really happy that you were breaking those patterns. And so. You know, you come in to the table and also just talking about your new awareness, that brings me a lot of joy. It really does, because you're a brave girl. I don't know too many young women in your position that will come and sit with the three of us.

[00:32:13]

Thanks for the wrath of GAM is no joke. Right? But let me tell you, I feel that way. I tell you, the truth of the matter is you don't have to do.

[00:32:25]

Yeah, yeah, you really don't, you don't, because the fact of the matter is you could just keep on keeping you could just keep on keeping on and you know the problem, right? Keep on keeping on. I think what was important was for me to come here and say, I'm sorry, I acknowledge what was wrong, and I wasn't able to say that for so long. So I think people almost thought, oh, she must not care.

[00:32:45]

That must have not affected her. And she wasn't moved by that. And I took my privilege and all my blessings for granted. And I never thought anything of it. And that's what really rocked me. I was like, this is wrong. You need to talk about this. You need to do it publicly because the situation was public and then you need to move forward and do better.

[00:33:01]

Yeah, that's all we can ask. When we know better, we do better. When that goes across the board, Lord knows I'm learning every day to just do better life lessons.

[00:33:11]

I life unfolds, we learn, keep moving and keep moving. Well, thanks guys. My heart was this. I know, like, I, I really you know, I've never done an interview before. I don't think I think this is like my first interview. I was a little bit I was like, guess I'm going to read to you. I'm just going, oh God. Yeah, you did.

[00:33:31]

Well, now, you know, if Jamison you did well, did you then you the first thing to say right now, because we've been talking deep for so long, but I love the color of your suit. I was studying and I. Just like Gando say about what he has, that's your uniform is like, oh yeah, when you walked in I was like, Oh yes it is. I don't even want me to be better. I definitely don't want you to be mad at me.

[00:34:09]

I think it's I think it's not you.

[00:34:13]

It's the situation to join the red table, talk family and become a part of the conversation.

[00:34:19]

Follow us at Facebook. Dot com slash red tabletop. Thanks for listening to this episode of Red Tape Talk podcast produced by Facebook Watch Westbrooke Audio and I heart radio.

[00:34:31]

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