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To continuously sustain that wonder, that sense of wanting to know is the basis of science and mysticism. We have no way that a human could perceive a system of that complexity. And yet each of us has it. We can make new strains of mathematics. We can make computer simulations, but will never get it. I'll never get the brain. But even this brain can be manufactured with something as simple as a piece of a carrot or a bread. So I'm saying there is an intelligence here which can create a brain.


This is a place where I feel like science, that mysticism have a real meeting ground. Does it this three words of I don't know. Soupcon. Mother noncurrent. Milana. Smullen. Good evening, everyone. I said good evening. Tell us about the chant, the chant, these are certain types of invocation and the sense. The distinction between an invocation and a prayer is prayer is an effort to talk to whatever other dimensions that people believe in, vocation is a way of inciting a certain dimension of who you are for a particular type of activity.


So this tent is mainly talking about how but is sweet. But death is compassion, because if you cannot die, that's not a good thing. You know, we don't want to die right now, but suppose you cannot die at all. What do you do with it? It'll become a serious problem. The word then life is very sweet. Death is a great compassion if it comes at the right time. Meeting and mingling is very sweet, but memory is a great compassion.


And if one transcends the process that we refer to as time, then the whole existence is compassion for you.


That's what we tend to lament, generally saying so I'm very interested in the intersection of our worlds, science and mysticism. I thought we live in the same planet.


Well, we'll see.


I so so I go into the lab every day and I study how the brain, which is encased in silence and darkness, how it constructs our reality. And the reason we know that this has something to do with the brain is because of the brain is damaged even in small ways. Your reality changes. And if you take drugs or alcohol or other sorts of things, viruses in the system, your reality can change. So I'm interested in finding where our perspectives overlap in this, because your interest is one of your interests is also understanding reality, how we perceive it, how it's individualised to us.


So can you tell us about that?


That is that is existence outside and that is you or me as individual human beings. We have not seen the world. We know it only the way it's projected in the firmament of our minds. When we say mind an English language man, there's just one word and supposed to encompass everything, but in the yogic terminology, we have 16 parts of the mind which function distinct functions and then a whole lot of practices and processes through which one takes charge of this 16 dimensions of mind, the 16 for simple understanding can be brought into four four sections.


The first dimension of the mind is we are referring to as Buddha or what is generally considered intellect. It is the intellect. I think modern societies, particularly modern education, has become too overly focused on the intellect.


Aristotle, you know, I'm not talking with your boy because of we got too engrossed in we got too mesmerized by our own logic and we have invested too much in human intellect, living on the other dimensions of intelligence that functions within us. When we say intellect, it is the logical realm of what's happening in our minds, or in other words, in your intellect.


You can't make your intellect agree. Two plus two is six. It has to be four other words you think is crazy. So it's factual.


It grasp the facts of life and assimilates and makes an analysis of that and lets us penetrate through the world. Or in other words, intellect is like a knife. The sharper the better. Knife is an instrument which is used for cutting things open. So this is one way of exploring the world by dissection. This is how, you know, at least in high school you must have detected something, maybe an earthworm or a cockroach or a frog. I don't know how far you went.


This is one way of moving things, you definitely grasp something, but you never grasp the intrinsic nature of life by dissection. So there are other dimensions of intelligence. And another aspect of the intellect is the second dimension of the mind. We call it as a Hakata, which in English language would translate as the identity. What is the identity you have taken? Your intellect is always a slave of your identity. What you identify with it is only around that it functions simple things.


People are identified the things that they have not even seen and huge emotions are there. Their life is guided by those things. For example, all of us belong to some nation today. There was a time a hundred years ago many people did not belong to any nation. But today everybody belongs to some nation and everybody belongs to some football club. Also, we both have flags and emblems and works.


So nationality is a new idea. It's just about 150, 200 years that we have the strong sense of nationhood. We've shifted from our ethnic ratio and other kinds of identities to national identity. Just the moment you believe I belong to this nation, the emblem of the nation, the flag of the nation, the anthem of the nation brings genuine emotion. Nobody's pretending it's real. It's real because people are willing to die for it. It has to be real, but it's just an identity.


You could just switch at any time. You can move to another country and take that on and it becomes yours. So the moment you identify yourself with something, your intellect is completely always protecting this identity and working around this identity. So identity, if you want to continue that analogy, if intellect is the knife, identity is the hand that holds the knife, how steady or unsteady this hand is will determine what is intellect will do or undo. The next dimension of the mind is called as Mannis.


So this is not just in one place. This is the entire body. Manase is a huge silo of memory to when I say huge silo of memory, whatever memory you may have in your brain, I know your brain and whatever memory you may have in your brain.


Your body has a trillion times more memory than that. You definitely don't remember how your great, great, great, great great grandfather looked like, but his nose is sitting on your face right now. It remembers how your forefathers looked a million years ago. Your body still remembers, has not forgotten. Definitely it is not the capability of your brain. So in terms of memory, the menace is phenomenal and it's right across the body. Every cell in the body carries enormous memory, memory to a point for the origin of life on this planet and beyond.


All that memory is carried in this body. So this is madness. If there is no memory, intellect would be defunct.


It's like a car without gas because there is a memory. Intellect is on this. Memory flows through the hand of identity and whatever is the identity, the memory takes on that color accordingly. And then it plays up the intellect and intellect functions. The fourth dimension of the mind is called Chip that determines its pure intelligence unsullied by memory. There is absolutely no memory free of memory. It's just pure intelligence. When we say pure intelligence, all kinds of things have been said.


With all due respect to everybody's beliefs and faiths and whatever all kinds of things have been said to people that God is generous, God is love, God is this God is that suppose you had nobody told you anything and you just paid attention to all the creation around you, how a flower blossoms, how a leaf is, how and most if you paid enough attention, one thing you that you would definitely come to is whatever it is, the source of creation is a god damn intelligent thing.


Intelligence, intelligence, intelligence. Everything is marked with phenomenal intelligence beyond whatever quite phenomenal brain cannot perceive.


So this is a dimension of intelligence within us, which is the basis of our creation. In a way, if you eat a piece of bread over the afternoon, it becomes a human being because this intelligence exists within you and me. So if you touch this intelligence in a very mysterious way, the Yogi other Yogi Yogi culture says if you touch your tip toe, if you touch the. Dimension of intelligence, then Divine becomes your slave. You don't have to think what you want.


You don't have to seek what you want. If you touch this intelligence, everything that you wish to know is yours is just you have to just direct your focus. And it's all there because there is a dimension of every human being might have accidentally at some point touched this, which makes suddenly one spark of magic in somebody's life. This is because they've touched this dimension of intelligence unconsciously. Now, the question is only about how to get there consciously and to stay there.


So these aspects of the mind are not entirely located here. It is right across the system.


I kind of think this is the endeavour of science is to take the intelligence all around us and across our system and try to understand the principles of that. It's a way of going out and trying to understand the blueprints around us in a way that can be made conscious. And we've made lots of progress that way. And we've walked on the moon and we've cured lots of human suffering that way by viewing this deep intelligence, which I totally agree with you about as something that we can make, um, understandable.


Take it from the ineffable to the affable. And that's part of it's part of what's maybe the biggest part of what's made our world what it is today. If I can intervene when you say understandable, that means we can put it into the parameters of logic. What what if there is a dimension of intelligence with the new which does not fit into the parameters of logic? Trying to fit everything into the parameters of logic means the surface intelligence, which is the intellect, which is our survival mode.


If you don't have an intellect, we wouldn't survive in this world. What is a survival instrument? We are trying to put all dimensions of life through that and it has to pass through that sieve that will completely skew the process. I would want to know that the things that are available to the intellect can't encompass the intelligence of a flower and of a birth and of a body and so on. I, I take the point that there may be limits to our intellect, but I don't know where those limits are and I don't know how to guarantee that there are borders there beyond which there is something else.


The science has done incredible things in the last hundred years. No question our life is the way it is today. The comfort and convenience that all of us are enjoying is essentially because of the outcome of the scientific endeavor on the planet. There's no question about that. But at the same time, the limitation of science is we are trying to touch a dimension which is beyond physical nature with the physical stick. Something that you and I had talked about before is this issue of time perception.


It's one of the things I study in my lab. And I was mentioning to you that I think it's one of the most stubborn psychological filters we have, by which I mean time seems to be a construction of the brain because we can easily manipulated it in the laboratory. So you think something lasted longer or shorter or something happened in a different order? And there are many physicists like Einstein who who were very clear on this point that time doesn't actually exist.


But but we're trapped inside of it.


And so this is an interesting example of using our intellect to to sort of come up against the glass wall and and say, you know, there seem to be things past this wall and it's impossible for me to know what it would be like to be free of time. For example, the time is a very relative experience. Every human being would know this in some context on a particular day. If you are very, very joyful, 24 hours passed off like a moment and another day you're depressed.


24 hours seems like a yawn.


They say how long a minute is depends on which side of the bathroom door you are.


Somebody says, just one minute, wait. So the basis of time as I perceive it, you must pardon me because I'm uneducated. OK. The only thing I know, I mean, being uneducated is not an easy thing. Yes, because from the first moment you were born, your parents, your teachers, every other adult around you, everybody is busy wanting to teach you something that has not worked in their life.


Yes, everybody's trying to instruct you on something. It doesn't matter what the only thing that they know better than a just born infant is they know some survival tricks. The adults, they don't know anything else about life. They are not perceived any life any better than a child. They just know of your survival tricks.


They know how to make money. They know how to build this. They know how to do that. But they do not know life in any sense because all these other things are just accessories of life. They're not life. Life is something that's throbbing within you.


So when we come to time in the yogic way of seeing things, we just see life as a dance of time and energy. It's a certain amount of time and a certain amount of energy actually in the local language is the expression for that is very beautiful music. Harlemite, that means his time got over when in normal language, when we say somebody passed away, we don't say it as we are saying it in English, we say his time got over.


Actually, that's all that happened.


Somebody's time got over now to put this time and energy together in a proper weave it together.


Well, if your time gets over when you're still energy's vibrant, we say this is an untimely death. If your energy gets over, when you're still time is on, it's a vegetative life to the art of putting this time and energy together so that both of them play together, dance together well is a successful life. So when we set time, there are many, many things we can do with energy. But as far as time is concerned, it's ticking off for all of us at the same pace.


In that sense, I know that there's research I'll come to that. It doesn't matter what we say, but our time is ticking off. At the same time, we may think many things. We came to this dark, we went to the cinema, we went to the university. We went here and there. But as far as physical bodies concerned, it's going straight to the grave because it is keeping time. You may forget you're happy. You forgot that you're 65 or 70.


You felt like you were eighteen because today your joyful but your body is keeping time. Your brain can be easily fooled, but body is properly keeping time.


That way you can fool this body all the time, keeping time because time is of consequence. Time is not a factor by itself. Time is a consequence of cyclical movements in the physical reality. We know time if if the earth spins once we say it's a day, if the moon goes around us, we say it's a month. If the earth goes around the sun, we say to you, our idea of time has come essentially because of the cyclical movements of everything that's physical around us.


This is the nature of physicality. Physicality is essentially cyclical, whether it's atomic or cosmic. Everything is cyclical. The moment you are identified with physical nature, time is a big factor. If you dissociate yourself with your physical nature, if you sit here and if you have a little space between you and your physical body, because what you call as my body is an accumulated process, it is something that you accumulated is just a piece of the planet.


If a little space comes between you and your body, suddenly time is not a factor to such an extent. We have any number of people.


This may be very difficult for a Western audience to digest, but I have seen yogis who have not moved from the place they were sitting for over six months, seven months, just in the same place. By any normal standards, your body should not survive that. But once they sit down, they want more just like that. Not moving at all, because once you distance yourself from your physiological process, time is not a factor. Right now. You're sitting here.


It's not your watch which is keeping the time. It's your body. If I make you sit here for three hours, your body self says it's enough. But suppose you did not have a body. We are going to sit here for 3000 years. What's the problem? So essentially because of your routine in your physical platform, which you call as the body which you built over a period of time from the accumulations that you gathered from this plan. That is the basis of experience of time, if you distance yourself from that, there is no consequence of time on you.


What is the you that can be separated from the physical? Is it the fact that you gathered your body over a period of time? It's the fact that this body gathered together over a period of time. And it may be that I emerge as a consequence of that, this feeling of I as opposed to me doing the gathering. Tell me you've been having lunch and dinner or have I been having lunch? Dinner? Yeah, yeah. This this dynamic accumulation has been eating plenty.


Yeah. So what you what you refer to as my body right now is an accumulation of food to heap of food. Not a pleasant way to describe you, but it is what you call it.


In my mind, largely in people's experience is an accumulation of impressions over a period of time. Agreed. So if you have to gather this much of impressions and this much of body, something more fundamental must be there, isn't it? Houston, Texas is an accumulation of roadways and buildings, but we wouldn't say that there was Houston was there. You gather you are not a piece of geography. You are not a piece of geography. Are you your you know, I may be exactly that.


A physical a physical being. I'll tell you why. From my perspective, that seems like a possibility. It's because we're across the street from the world's largest medical center and every day thousands of people there whose geography is changing because of Alzheimer's or stroke or tumor or traumatic brain injury and who they are changes. It doesn't seem like there's something fundamental that outlasts damage to the tissue.


You see, you're talking about heart and emotion. The biggest mistake we have made is we haven't given too much significance to human thought. Whatever you think is only happening from the limited data that you have gathered. Yes. All agree. Yes. So the data that you and me have gathered, however big we may think it is in terms of the cosmos, it's minuscule. It's nothing. It's really not of any consequence. So from this minuscule of data that we have gathered, we are generating some thought which could be useful in making our lives.


It could be useful in creating a few things that could be useful fundamentally for our survival and the enhancement of our survival process of this. But it doesn't give you access to life, thought and emotion. It's psychological drama that's happening within you. You can conduct it any way you want. You're talking about somebody had a tumor or Alzheimer's or an accident or something, and the drama went wrong.


The drama can go wrong even without any of those elements.


You ask people people's drama goes wrong without any accident or injury or ailment, just like that drama goes wrong on a daily basis for a lot of people.


We usually give that a name, though, something like depression or a psychotic break. That's a business. Not when I'm making any money, I'm saying there's only this much either your your faculties are taking instructions from you or they have become compulsive for some reason. All right. Either your body and mind, you can conduct it consciously or it's become compulsive. That's all that's happening. Whether you call it a physical ailment or mental ailment. All that's happened is just this, that your fundamental faculties of existence on this planet is your body and your mind.


These two things, you have lost grip over them so it can become this kind of ailment of that kind of ailment or whatever. But fundamentally, you have lost touch. That's all that's happened.


If your body and your brain took instructions from you, would you create depression? Would you create illness? Would you create anything? You would create highest level of pleasantness for you? We certainly would if there were a separate you that could gain that control. The we can come to this like this. There is something called because I see that you keep referring my brain. If you say my brain, that means it's yours. What is yours can be you.


Right. It's a colloquialism that we use because I need to refer to this one in here. I need to specify which I'm talking about when I say my hand.


I know even without my hand, I can still exist. Similarly, if certain parts of the brain are gone, our ability to think and feel the way we were doing it earlier may be gone. But still, that person is not gone. That's the question. So if I lose a little part of my finger, I'm still me. But if I lose a chunk of brain tissue that same size, I can be someone completely different. I can.


You're talking about personality, personality again, an acquired thing beyond personality.


I can lose memory. I can lose consciousness. Of course I can lose the ability to perceive reality the way that we do now. I might become color blind because of a lesion, because damage to a particular part of my brain, I lose the ability to understand what objects are. OK, let's come to this. See, suppose somebody became colour blind because of an injury or whatever that happened to them. Unfortunately, that person still knows I have become colour blind.


Isn't. He's still there.


It's true for the person who becomes color blind, but it's not true for, uh, for example, a person who is born colorblind, they don't even have a concept that they that they could be they don't have a concept of color. So let's take versus board blind entirely. They don't even have a concept vision. So who's the you for them?


Do they they even a person who has visually impaired, who's never seen the world around, he still exists within himself. He's as much a man or a woman as anybody else can be. It's just that if all of us were blind, we would be quite a fine society without us. Right. Right. Yes.


Isn't it only because somebody has and I don't have in competition, I have a problem. Otherwise, if none of us had ice, you would think we wouldn't have found our way around.


We would have maybe not the same way in a different way. Oh, I totally agree, because in so I mentioned there are mammals who are flying by, you know, sound. Yeah.


Well, there are so many dimensions that we are blind to now. So what we call visible light is just a one 10 trillionth of the electromagnetic spectrum that's out there. We only detect a little bit in some branches of physics. It seems there might be between 10 to 13 spatial dimensions, not just these three.


And yet we're trapped in these where we are moving away from consciousness to perception. But my point is we're already blind to most of the world, so I agree with you that, OK, so let's move back to perception.


The. What you what an individual life is, you cannot disagree that your life you've got a piece of life, I'm a piece of land, everybody is what kind of personalities we have acquired, what kind of likes and dislikes we've acquired, what kinds of gods and demons we have acquired, what kinds of other things we have acquired is a social process that's happened to us cultural and social process. If you were born in a different part of the world, it would be entirely different depending upon what we are exposed to.


These are impressions that we have taken in phenomenal amount of impressions. Leaving that aside, let's look at one fundamental. Whatever you gather, you can only claim it's mine. You cannot say it's me, isn't it? Whatever you gather. How do you mean you mean your body, you say anything, anything, anything. I can say this is my chair, if I sit here every day and then I said, this is me, then there's a problem.


I think there's a possibility that it's exactly what happens, that the stuff that this piece of life can end up controlling becomes me. The reason I think this is my hand is because it's most of the time is that my hand is OK. No problem. My hand is OK. It means the problem. What does it mean? My hand means it belongs to you. No problem with that. When it becomes me, then it leads to a completely distortion of perception.


OK, I think so you're you're talking about identity, what you identify yourself as so you can see the nature of the mind as such. It is looking for some because human intellect and human intelligence as broken out of a certain bond which was there for every other creature, that they could function like an automated machine through certain instinctual process. What has happened with the human being, with the process of evolution is he's a human being, has broken out of that instinctual process.


And there is an intelligence which has to function consciously.


But functioning consciously means every moment of life is an exploration which is too scary for a whole lot of people. So the best thing is identify with something which gives you some sense of what you are. But this some sense of what you are, which you took on based on your social and cultural background. What you took on makes sense for your survival process, but not for explorative process. It doesn't explore life. It keeps you sane. It's a good choice.


It keeps you it helps you to sleep well in the night. But it doesn't awaken a different dimension of knowing. It doesn't awaken the possibility of exploring dimensions which are not yet within you. So you have this has to happen. The most important thing is to be able to sit here not identified with anything. When I said it's so hard to remain uneducated in this world because everybody is busy wanting to teach you something. This is all I did in my life, to remain uneducated, not to be influenced by parents, by a family, by religion that's happening around your culture, that's happening around your education, that people are forcing on you just to be the way creation intended you to be.


Simply, I'm not fit into the university, but I'm OK.


You know, just simply the way you were born, not tangling up your intelligence to any particular thing, either your nationality or your religion or your race or your creed or your family or any kind of identity or your gender or whatever, simply to be able to view your life just as a piece of life. If one does this, then you will see perception will explode in ways that they have not imagined possible, that as a physical body, you're unable to not be influenced by the by the clothing of your culture, by this is a statement is not a compulsive thing, but you don't dress is somebody who's Chinese or an Eskimo or something.


When I'm in the North Pole, I will.


I think so. You can't.


So so from my perspective, there's this issue of brain plasticity, which is to say that we absorb what's coming in. And I think it's exactly consistent with your description about who you are. The end is is an accumulation of all these perceptions. There's also the case that we come to the table with some preprogramming in our DNA, which I think is consistent with what you're talking about is the memory of all of your ancestors leading up to this point. But because we are creatures that go around and vacuum in the our cultures and we speak this particular language and we we are males and we dress in certain ways, it's hard to avoid that.


Now, I'm guessing you're going to say, but you don't identify with it. Is that is that right? What is a social requirement is one thing. I just saw you going into the women's room and you, too, by the way, because that was the only bathroom available. Yes.


So by social norm, you do certain things because in the room that we were sitting, there was only woman's room.


I don't know why they marked it like that. I don't know. So you went in? I went in. Every other male went in. Only the female did not go.


So now what do you do for the norm that exists so that you don't collide into situations is one thing. What you identify with is another thing. So the moment you identify with anything, for that matter, starting from your body to everything else, what is your body? Is the limited body, what you call as family, the larger body, what you call as communities, a much bigger body, what you call as a nation is a much bigger body, what you call it.


Humanity is a much bigger body. This is how human identities go. People think it's better to be identified with a nation than to be with an individual. When there is a war, when there's some situation, people think it's better to be identified with the whole humanity. But any identity you it takes away the fundamental possibility of what this life is. Identity is required for a survival process to manage day to day situations. But it is not an exploratory process because the intention of science is to know the technology is a fallout.


Unfortunately, in this world, nobody would fund science if it did not spin technology, which is a very unfortunate thing because human intelligence wants to know it need not be useful.


It simply wants to know. So technology is useful and what is useful today, tomorrow, you may realize, is very destructive.


It may take away our life that so technology has to be judiciously looked at, what to apply, what we should not apply. But that judiciousness is gone because everything is commercialized and it's on full force. Everything that we do after 50 years, we come back and say we did the wrong thing, now we're doing the right thing. And again, after 25 years, we come back and then we did the wrong thing. Now we're doing the right thing every every stage of life.


We seem to know it perfectly well. But after some time, looking back, we know we did not know nothing. We missed too many pieces.


So technology is something that we have to judiciously do. Science must happen rampantly. Mysticism must happen rapidly because this is simply exploratory. This is not about seeing how to make it useful. But today, modern science has become a slave of technology. If you don't make it useful, nobody is going to find you anymore. You simply say, I want to know nobody's interested in this. How can it be turned into an enterprise that's all that interested in?


This is a wrong way to approach science, because science is a this is a fundamental need within a human being wanting to know it's the nature of human intelligence.


It is not something that somebody made up. It's not a bunch of scientists who made this up. This is a fundamental need within human intelligence, wanting to know it is the nature of a human being. If you see something new, he wants to know what this is, but a small thing or a big thing. So to continuously sustain that wonder, that sense of wanting to know is the basis of science and mysticism. It is only the fundamental approach is different in the sense science is trying to achieve everything through physical means by taking physical quantities, going by the physical loss.


But physical is like the peel of the fruit. It has no purpose of it. On the pill is useful only as a protective layer to the fruit. Once the fruit is eaten, Bill goes to the trash can. The right now the fruit is inside. So this body is very important. We have to feed it. We have to decorate it. We have to dress it up. We have to put it in so many ways. Tomorrow morning of the fruit is gone.


Nobody's interested in this body anymore. Nobody wants to transact with this anymore only because there is something else inside. The body is so, so, such great significance once this is gone. What is this? This is just like a fruit pit. People want to get rid of it at the earliest, at least in America. They dress it up in India within four hours.


You must get rid of the body. That's the root of the ones that leave the dead to the dead. You know, somebody said someone's as long as they're alive, you know, whatever, once they're dead, you're done because the people is meaningless without the food.


Right now, the fundamental flaw in this approach is, though, it's produced phenomenal results in terms of well-being for us, comfort for us, convenience for us, the kind of comfort and convenience we're enjoying. No other generation ever has known on this planet. This is a fruit of science or technology, whether in spite of that, will it lead to human wellbeing? That's a question mark. Comfort and convenience will come. But will well-being come? That's a question mark, because if you look back on the humanity, let's say 100 years ago, a thousand years ago, how people were and how people like you today, are you more joyful than them?


Are you more blistered than them? So are you more blessed doubt than previous generations? It's not true. We are in much more comfort, but we are not in much more joyful states or pleasant states within ourselves or in essence, our well-being or the fundamental quality of our life has not change, though the physical quality of our life has changed like unimaginable proportions in the last 50 years. So we are trying to approach everything through physical means. If you go through physical means, you will hit the glass wall somewhere.


I think in my perception, I'm not a scientist. I don't know all of it. But in my perception, I think the physics are near the glass wall. They might not have hit it there near. That's the unknown question, right? We have no guarantee how far will get in science. And we we may run. But by glass wall, I assume you mean we we run to a place where we said we can't present faculties will not be good enough.


The present present faculties of five senses and a brain will not be good enough that we hit a long time ago.


So for example, things like quantum physics, quantum physics, you can't understand it, but you can write it down in equations that make predictions accurate out to 14 decimal places. So we think it's pretty good and we can build new things out of it that we we can see things much smaller and much farther away than we ever could before. We understand the wonderfulness of the subtleness of everything around us much better than we did before. But the actual physics, a human can't understand.


We just make tools to to get where we need to go with it. So we've already hit that point.


And certainly it's the case with the human brain, which is made up of almost a hundred billion specialized cells with thousands of trillions of connections between them and every cell in the way of saying it with the passion.


He, like some people, are talking about food or somewhere I'm a Bravia instead of a fluid on the brain.


Yeah, but the reason the reason it's easy to be passionate about it is because it's a system of such unimaginable complexity that it bankrupts the language.


It we have no way that a human could perceive a system of that complexity. And yet each of us has it.


Uh, you know, this is three pound organ that we're carrying around, but we've already hit that point a long time ago in science where we realize we can make new strains of mathematics, we can make computer simulations, but will never get it.


I'll never get the brain. All I can do is take the, uh, you know, the way the way that you explained the 16 aspects of the mind, you simplified it down to four.


I you know, best I could do is take the thousands of trillions of connections in the brain and make some cartoony model that my impoverished intellect can sort of get. It's get a sense of the building.


A simulator. Brain simulator. I know. Yeah. And a busy building, this simulated brain. All that is fine.


We are looking at the physical mechanics of what's happening. The complexity of what's happening is beyond the physical mechanics. See, looking at the physical mechanics of the brain, the neuronal function and the electric, the thing that's happening, the wave that are flowing, whatever things happening is fantastic because of the complexity of what it is, the sophistication of what it is.


It is the gadget, no question. OK, this human gadget is the gadget on the planet of what we have seen. This is the most sophisticated gadget on the planet.


There's no question about that, keeping that aside.


But even this brain can be manufactured with something as simple as a piece of a carrot or a bread.


So I'm saying this is an intelligence here which can create a brain. Why are you ignoring that intelligence?


I think that's the heart of science, is to try to understand what that is. What I mean by that is, um, you know, so we we have different approaches in science to get there. But studying the genetic code and understanding how the heck with 27000 genes, can you unpack a human being? Because whatever the whatever the truth is of what's happening, happening spiritually, if there's a separate you or what we know for sure is that you can unpack a human being from from these four letters of amino acids.


And, yeah, I mean, these base pairs that make make these proteins and somehow that all gets unpacked fueled by bread and carrots and so on and on.


These kind of questions have always been on human mind. It happened almost 15000 years ago. The yogi that the first yogi, he had seven disciples, these seven disciples. I'm full of questions. They are some of them are astronomer's. Some of them are serious mathematicians, things like this. They have a million questions after some time. Are you guys bored with their questions? Because whatever they ask, it's just a product of their intellect. They're not able to ask a question beyond that.


So they ask, what is the nature of this, your cosmos? Where does it begin? Where does it end? How big is it? He's just bored. So he says, you're your cosmos. I can pack it into your mustard seed, the entire cosmos. I can pack it into your mustard seed. Then they were flabbergasted by this. Then they said, what is it made of? If you can pack such a huge cosmos, which we can't even imagine where it begins and where it ends and the mustard is, what is it made of?


He was completely bored, you know, to utter a word. He simply said like this, five elements, just these five elements. The entire universe is a play of these five elements. If you master the five elements, you have a key to every aspect of creation. If you don't master the five elements, if you approach it from outside as you approach it, it will take one or two linear forms as you try to study it.


It can take on a trillion new forms as you're looking at it, because that is what it is capable of.


Just five things, five million things would be difficult. Five, I'm sure you and me can study isn't at least I'm capable of it. You're talking and millions and billions, but I am five. How are you going to tell me what the five are? Are you going to tell me what the five elements are on these five elements?


It's called Earth Fire, Water, Air, space. These are five things.


Maybe. I mean, maybe, maybe that'll work.


And everything is just within this. Everything that you call as physical creation has substance of some kind. This is Earth and all of it is in moment. That's called air. All of it has collapsed to some temperature. That is fire. And in everything there is water, which is the cohesiveness. If there is no water, there's no cohesiveness in anything. And all of it is held together by what we call it, Arkush here. We're calling it a space in the English language.


It doesn't really describe what we are saying, but it's called Akaash. Maybe a more closer word in English language would be it if that space or whatever they're calling it is.


So these are the five things, whether an atom or a subatomic particle, everything is made of these five things. So you don't have to study the trillions of things which are manifestations of this fire. If you understand these five things, if you have grasped all these five things, then everything becomes accessible. So the fundamental the most basic process, unfortunately, the word yoga conjures completely wrong images in America. The most fundamental aspect of yoga is called beauty should this means cleansing of the elements so that you can feel them separately in your own system.


This very body is 72 percent water and 12 percent at six percent air, four percent fire remaining in space. If you take charge of these things, what you need to know, everything that is life is here because modern physicists are saying as you sit here, every subatomic particle is in communication with the rest of the cosmos. If it is so, you just have to become alive to it. You just have to become receptive to it rather than going around the cosmos and studying.


If you sit here, it's reverberating because the nature I think there is some constructional theory, something coming up in California. I don't know.


You must be acquainted with these things somewhat. I blurbed the book actually either. But fundamentally, what they are saying is whether it is the smallest thing or the biggest thing, everything, the fundamental design is same. It is only the complexity and sophistication which is improving between an amoeba and you. The fundamental design is the same. It is much more complex and sophisticated, but essentially life making design. Is saying so if it is so, the most fundamental materials which make this life and every other physical aspect of what we see in this creation, if we know the ingredients and how they happen, then you have a key to every aspect of life.


But if you try to study the creation itself as you studied, they will multiply into billions and trillions.


It seems it might depend what your goal is. So if you want to create a drug for cancer or build a helicopter, you need to do something with those five elements or break the will.


Not about exploration, it's about utility. What is the use of life? Let me ask you a question I would love to know.


I've wondered that question and I get it that science science isn't getting me there.


I mean, I don't I've been in science my whole adult life, but I don't know, I get much more towards that question when I read literature, which was my first love before I went to science.


So, um, so I take the point that science doesn't help me on that front at all. What would you say? I've wondered what the point is.


No, no. When when we're looking at everything I see right now, there's an unfortunate reality which is doesn't agree with my studies of life. Right now. Science has moved from an exploratory process to an exploitative process.


If you see an atom, how to use it, if you see a bacteria, how to use it, if you see an elephant, how to use it. If you use a way, how to use it. Of course, the next thing is you'll see a human being, how to use them. This is where it's going, everything, how to use it. This is not what life is about. You may get to know how to use every damn thing, but still life won't get any better.


If you know how to keep this one, life will get better. Believe if you just know how to sit here blissed out, life will get better.


I see that point. Let me ask you I'm curious what you think is reality out there, because I think we think you and I come from the same perspective that we're very limited in what we can actually see and that an animal would see reality differently than you and I and you and I might see it differently also if one of us has synesthesia. And so when we hear music, we see colors, things like that, that we might have very different realities.


So what would it be like if you could get beyond the physical trappings?


The languages language can go only thus far, whether it's science or literature. It can go only that far when you speak any language.


It must make logical sense if it does not make logical sense. People are leaving right now.


Yes, because language has this language is deeply enslaved to the fundamental logic, which is a product of our intellect. Without it, we could not speak.


So now you are asking about something which is not going to be logically correct. So I am not willing to make a fool of myself here talking about something that's not going to make sense to them right now. But we will talk about it in a, you know, a different way. This happened I had a family, the first yogi, so some disciple of his from South India carried a basket of mangoes.


I tasted the Indian mango. Yeah, Indian mango have been OK.


So it's during the season right now.


Unfortunately, I'm in America this time of the year. Mango is the only religion in the country.


Everybody's head to toe mango. OK, so mangoes drivers crazy.


In southern India we have over 200 varieties of mangoes. So different days where they want to eat different types of mangoes and they want to cook mango. They want to everything is mango. OK, people have come up with facial creams, mango creams and everything. So somebody carried a basket of mangoes and came all the way to Himalayans to offer them to their guru.


But by the time they came, the basket one by one mango is going bad. Either they threw it away and they ate it up. Something happened.


By the time they came, they had only one mangoes left, one beautiful South Indian mango. I'm talking about it like you talk about bringing it, believe me, it's not like the brain.


So now the yogi has a wife and two children, two boys, now one mango.


Mango is not like an apple. You can't cut it in half and give it to two people. It can only be eaten like this. You know, if you cut it, it won't go equal anyway. So what to do? Both the boys came running. We want the mango. Each one wants the mango. So they didn't know what to do. Then they said what? They have to set up something. Who gets the mango? They said, OK, let's have a little race.


Whoever wins the race gets the mango because these are the youngest children. It's not 100 meter dash.


They said whoever goes around the world three times, first they will get the mango to the younger boy, immediately set off racing around the world wanting to make three rounds and he went away.


The old boy was a little obese.


He just sat there. He didn't move. The parents were surprised then they thought maybe he's given up on the mango. The young boy wants to get it. He's running.


This boy has given up, but this boy sat there for some time.


Then he got up. He went around his father and mother three times and said, Mango, they said, what, you didn't even run?


What do you mean? That race is about going around the world? He's going around the world. I went around my world. You are my world. I'm going around. I deserve the mango. They couldn't argue with this logic. Should they give him the mango he ate and the boy, the younger boy came and, you know, things happen.


Fireworks, fireworks happened.


He became very furious. All those things are the story.


But what I'm saying is there is a subjective reality and there's an object to reality. When I say subjective reality, I'm not talking about just your thoughts and emotions like you are talking about. Cognitive reality can be different. What is meant for somebody stays with someone else. What is sweeter? Somebody is better for somebody else. What's right for one person is darkness for another creature.


Here I see one creature right behind staring at me. So this perception is this. Five senses are tuned for our survival. If survival is what we are seeking, sense organs are fine.


But once you're looking at life as an exploration, you want to know life, not just live life. You want to know when you want to know. Five senses are no good. They are not sufficient faculties to know right now this brain. I'm not trying to downgrade it.


It's a fantastic thing.


This brain is nothing without the five senses. It is these five agencies which are gathering information and feeding up this brain all the time, both every moment of your wakefulness and sleep. This is happening if you walk from here to there.


If somebody is wearing a strong perfume or something else, you may notice it otherwise, generally you may not notice, but if you walk from here that your olfactory cognition is taking in probably 200 different smells.


If you walk from here to there, it is just that you have not paid enough attention to decipher that and your other faculties are overriding that.


Suppose you did not have eyes, ears, nothing. If you shut them off for some time, you will see suddenly your nostrils become so very sensitive you can just smell out how many people are there? If you bring your dog here, he almost knows how many people are here. He doesn't know just how many humans smell. He knows individually distinct smell of each person that is here. We also have that because our neurological system is way more sophisticated than that of a dog, but there are other overriding factors which have diminished that.


But if you wish, you can develop that to a certain level. So cognitive distinctions are there and cognitive confusion is there as well.


What what's that word about? Smell becomes a color and color becomes synesthesia. OK, whatever.


No, it's anesthesia. Synesthesia. Something is lost. Something is mixed up like a drink. A man who is just out of the bar may feel that way. You know, everything may become colorful or not colorful depending upon his mood on that day or what he had.


So these things are happening because you can empower these things or enhance things with a little bit of chemical stimulation or injuries or diseases or this is an essentially a chemical soup. What kind of soup is the question?


So our whole effort in the object system is how to keep it very economists and exuberant at the same time. The problem with most people easy to become, equal minimus become they become like if they become exuberant, they keep flipping all the time to be economists. And exuberant means your sense organs and you can function in a certain way.


You are vibrantly alive, but you are absolutely economists'. If this one thing happens, suddenly your sensory perception will not be the limit for you. There are other dimensions of perception which will not come into one's experience unless there is a certain level of striving. For example, 200 years ago I heard 97 percent of the United States population was illiterate.


Today, probably almost 100 percent literacy in the country. How does this happen? It's the infrastructure of schoolrooms and new human infrastructure of teachers and many other things and books and whatever. If this infrastructure was not built even today, we would be in the same condition. Isn't it so similarly for turning inward. There is no infrastructure, few individuals maybe doing it somewhere, but there is no large scale infrastructure in the society as to look at life just as life, not as to how it is useful.


Life need not be useful, it's a phenomena beyond our use, it is a phenomena that we experienced. We have come here to experience life, not to use life, isn't it?




We have come here to experience life, not about how to put this to use. This is not a work donkey.


I'm trying to understand this issue about knowing.


So where we clearly have overlap in the way we go about it is wanting to know things, wanting to understand everything around us.


But there's this there's a sense in which we're not limited by our intellect because I have the opportunity to ride on the back of all the other humans on the planet, those that have come before me. It's a collective intellect that's now encoded on Wikipedia and in millions of books. And I have an opportunity to take experiences from across the world, places I've never been, ideas that I would have never thought of and so on and feed all that it. So it's a much richer diet, first of all, a much richer data.


It's a diet of data. I mean, it's what shapes my next thoughts is what I've taken in.


No, it's it is just that today we have access to much larger data than maybe a hundred years ago.


All right. But still, we have already looked at this.


It's still a minuscule, I agree, compared to the whole cosmos. Still minuscule, but it's moving in the right direction.


The the unspeakable thirst for knowledge that humans have means that there's this ratcheting up each generation. So it's not that I'm it is, of course, the case that I'm limited in my thoughts to the impressions that I've had.


But I have a much bigger firehose of impressions now that can build on the scaffolding of the generations before me, the things they've already figured out so that I can start at the next that's the next level.


And the next level for what? Towards what end? That's a good question. I mean, it's it's the toward the end of of knowing in the way that in the way that science cares about knowing. So putting aside the usefulness of technology, just the way that scientists asks questions, Richard Feynman, the physicist, said science is like sex.


Sometimes something useful comes out of it, but it's not why we're doing it.


So it's a way of knowing and it's a way of it's a collaborative way of knowing where we link arms across space and across generations as well to try to get somewhere.


I'm in no way trying to disagree with that or in any way discredit that. It's a tremendous effort. But I'm saying if knowing is the purpose, because wanting to know how much time and energy somebody is willing to dedicate to that may be questionable from person to person, but everybody wants to know.


There's no question about that. But knowing everything by intellect, we will know the surface of everything, but never the real source of everything or the core of everything, because the only piece of the only doorway to our experience is this human mechanism.


You don't know the world any other way than the way this one is projecting right now within itself. Yes, I agree. There is no other way.


You don't know how that is.


You only know the way it is happening within you, isn't it? I don't know how you are, really.


I only know the way your picture is right now, projecting in my brain or my system and how I am perceiving it. As you know, you have drill holes into people's brains and empowered something, something and put electric around. And whatever you done, I'm not saying you are the person. I'm saying these things have been done.


You definitely know, by interfering with a certain physical process, the whole perception could change. The world does not change, but perception is change. So in his experience, everything has changed. So that dimension of life is only useful for survival.


When I say survival, everything that we are doing is survival to survive better, to enhance our survival to a better status or an enhanced way of surviving process. But once you come as a human being, it doesn't matter how well you survive. Still, it is not good enough, isn't it? It's never going to be good enough because survival is not going to fulfill a human being.


It doesn't matter how big our homes get, how big our cars get, how energy efficient it gets, how better we dress, how better we eat. Still, we will feel it's not enough because that's not the direction in which the life wants to go. So here's the point I'm trying to understand. Is this issue about knowing this issue, about seeking knowledge, let's say either in science or in mysticism? We depend on our senses for that. Yes.


Or are you saying.


I'm saying they're not dependable. Agreed. They're not dependable.


But isn't it all we have or you're saying there's this other aspect to the mind, c, c, for example, suppose you or me were lost in the jungle infants. OK, if something edible came, we definitely would take it and put it in the mouth. We wouldn't try our use their nostrils and then suddenly by accident, discover the mouth. Not we just know how to eat. No question about that. So I am saying everything concerned with our survival is in its death.


This is millions of years of memory which is there within us. We know how to survive, but we wouldn't know how to read. We wouldn't know how to do so many other things which have become a part of our life. Do you remember when you were two or three years of age when they tried to teach you that alphabet, the dummy, how complicated it was? It was so complicated just to get it right. You had to write 100 times to get it to do with eyes closed.


You can do it because of a certain striving, isn't it? Similarly, anything beyond survival, if we have to have it in our lives, a certain striving is needed.


As I said, striving for inward perception is something, unfortunately that's been banished in modern modern societies because we are on the trail of technology. It's a fantastic thing. But you will see as time progresses, as technology becomes better and better, human beings will become more and more frustrated. If you have not noticed this, just look out and see. You will see eight year old ten year old kids bored in your generation of my generation, you would have never seen.


We never knew. What is damn boredom is when you eight or ten, you were just bubbling with life and on.


But today you see ten year old kids are just bored because they've seen the damn cosmos through their phone screens, then I don't.


So I'm saying all this excess may not lead to betterment of life and it will not. Comfort and convenience will come. But well-being will not happen, the purpose of enhancing human experience on this planet will not happen. It will only entertain us intellectually big time, which it is, no question. I'm not saying it's wrong, but I'm saying it's limited.


It may be the thing that allows people to make a deeper pursuit inexactly. Analogy with the idea of building schoolhouses throughout the country. It would have been 30 years ago that it would be difficult for you to speak to many people. But now you have 500000 followers on Facebook.


Yeah, yeah. I was telling you, I was in a very large gathering of people and somebody asked me, said, Guru, what about all the gurus, ancient gurus who are there? What about them? I said, nothing, nothing.


I am the greatest guru because when I was there, he could speak to his gentle, very gentle human being. Probably he could speak to 50 people at the time and got the maximum.


He stood up and spoke more loudly, maybe 100 people working, and they came a big voice. Maybe he spoke to 200 people. Look at here right now I am speaking to fifty thousand people. And if I want, I can speak to the whole world sitting here. So I am the greatest guru ever because technology is definitely facilitated that. No question. But at the same time, technology doesn't have discriminatory powers.


You can as you can deliver wellbeing, you can deliver disaster through technology by itself. It doesn't have a mind of its own. It has a certain capability and all machines and whatever.


We have created technology from a bicycle to a spacecraft or a computer, whatever, essentially only what we can do enhancement of that because we can speak now on microphone has come, a telephone has come because we can see a telescope has come, a microscope has come. Only what we can do. We are enhancing it with various machines and gadgets we are creating. We have not created one machine or gadget to do something that we ourselves cannot do in a rudimentary way.


I agree with that too. I am saying you are only enhancing your five senses. For now, yes, but no. As you know right now, it can happen right now with a phone. I can talk to somebody in India. It may technology may come. I can smell the food that they're cooking in India. If I'm missing home, they can turn on the phone and I can smell the food from India. It may happen. I'm not saying it's beyond that.


It's very much possible it may happen, but I can do it without a phone also.


So you're very interested in our engineering? My interest isn't Outhred Engineering.


And as you know, I've built a vest in my laboratory with vibratory motors on it and we're experimenting now with feeding in new kinds of data streams into the brain because the brain appears to be flexible enough to take in any kind of new data streams and have a sensation of it. So so if I feed in weather patterns from the surrounding 200 miles or five feet in real time stock market data, you can in theory develop a sense of the economic movements of the planet, things like this.


Now we're just at the foot of the mountain on this, but it may be that there are whole new kinds of human senses, and that would be a proof of principle, of developing something that goes that goes beyond that makes a new kind of sense and essentially takes these peripheral devices and adds adds new ones. And eventually we'll probably build new kinds of sensors and plug them right into the brain.


That's still there. Will only enhance your present capabilities. Not something new, not entirely new.


I don't know if I could actually have an individual experience of weather patterns 200 miles wide. As I'm walking around. I'm I'm captain do that.


I think that's a new human experience, that this is something that happened almost forty four to five years ago when I was living on a farm.


So there is a man, a middle aged man in the village who is you know, he can barely hear 95 percent gone. Just if you shout at him, he hears something. So because you cannot hear he cannot say anything, you just demand steps and things. So everybody thinks he's a fool and, you know, things happening. He's not valued in the village. So I took him as my man Friday and I said, you stay on my farm and work for me.


So he was with me. What I found was one morning he gets up and gets the plough and the you know, those are the days, not tractor days. He still play with the animals. So you get the animals and the plow ready. I said, what are you doing? I'm getting ready to plow. I said, very, very well to plow. It's dry because it is going to rain today. I look at the sky, it's clear.


Sky said nonsense. Where is it going to rain?


He said, no, it's going to rain. He simply sits there like this because nobody, no social communication he can't hear. He simply sits there like this the whole day. There's no work. He just sits in one place and he just knows and you won't believe it'll ruin the day. He says it'll rain. It will rain. Then I sit up, OK, I'm doing all this yoga. I'm not getting this this guy.


So I said the day after day after day, turning my hand like this, turning like this, trying to feel this time I feel that feeling, looking up, looking down everything. I applied myself for eighteen months and today in tropical climate with my eyes closed, I will say today it's going to rain means 95 percent is going to rain. It's just a keen observation of everything that's wrong. You just because he could not hear he disappointed the other aspects so much, he just knows when it'll rain and always bangun.


Maybe he had one of my vests on possible, but he was not sparkling like you. I'm curious on a completely different topic.


When you look at other faith traditions, when you look at the the the rabbi sages and imams and people all over the world of different traditions, what do you see in common?


The common is they all believe something that they don't know. Because. I think the the main reason why every human being is not a natural seeker is they have not realised the immensity of I do not know.


Only if you see I do not know the possibility of knowing arises, longing to know arise or seeking to know arises. Then knowing becomes a possibility and a reality. Everything that you do not know if you just believe you destroyed the possibility of knowing altogether. But belief is a is something that builds confidence in the human being, makes him far more surefooted than others.


But confidence without clarity is very disastrous, both for the individual and the larger humanity on the planet itself.


Suppose let's say my vision is not clear. It is, but I'm just saying, suppose my vision is not clear. I want to walk through you, but I can't see clearly. But I'm very confident, you know what a disaster that will be for you. All right.


If I understand my vision is not clear and I don't have this foolish idea of confidence, then I will walk gently and seek somebody help and have some humility to walk through people in a certain way. Otherwise, I will see how to clear my vision, what I have to do for that.


But if you have no clarity and you have confidence, it's a dangerous it's a it's a.. It's bound to explode in humanity somewhere. It keeps happening here that we are just looking at adoption, small adoptions.


But it's bound to happen somewhere, large scale.


But at the same time as human intellect is sparkling like never before.


For the first time in the history of humanity, more human beings are thinking for themselves than ever before.


All these thousands of years, one village or one town with a few thousand people means only one guy would think. Others would just take instructions from him.


Now almost everybody is able to think how clearly how how much, how much clarity or confusion is a different thing.


But at least the thinking as they what I believe in the next 50 to 100 years, as more and more human beings start thinking for themselves, then you will see believing in something will be completely out of work, because essentially believing something means, with all due respect to everybody, essentially believing something means you are not sincere enough to admit that you do not know. We all have to come to this much. What I know. I know what I do not know.


I do not know. This is a fantastic way to be and I do not know. A person cannot fight with anybody. That's the biggest thing I know always.


There is a fact. So all these religious processes which have ended up as religions at one time when they started, started as an individual experience for somebody. That person shared his experience with a few people around him, maybe a dozen or maybe 100 or maybe a few thousand he shared. And over a period of time, it gets organized and becomes something totally, totally different.


So it has a huge responsibility of handling psychological well-being of the human beings in the sense.


The human beings are psychologically always confused and they don't know where to be, what is their wellbeing, and every small thing there is confusion. And it's something that I realized when I went to the university, I refused to I'm sorry, I'm speaking in university. I refuse to sit in the classrooms because it was too uninteresting for me. So I sat in the garden outside under a tree.


Once I planted myself that everybody knew that I am there every day without fail under the tree where all kinds of debates and discussions we started and people started coming to me with all kinds of problems, you know, students having their own problems, their education problems, boyfriend girlfriend problems, parenting problems.


As I sat there and heard through everybody's everything in these three years that I was there, I must have heard thousands of people about their problems.


It became like a problem point. Anybody has a problem.


They come to me. I realized I was the only Frico who did not have a problem.


Everybody had a problem. It made them normal.


I did not know what the problem is, not that everything was perfect, but it's just that I didn't view it as a problem. I just saw situations out there, some works for me, some don't work for me. But everybody has a problem if you really look at it. The problem with humanity is just this. From from being a monkey or a chimpanzee to a human being, it's actually a small change, you know, from from a chimpanzee to a human being, there is only one point two, three percent DNA difference.


I believe that's not much, isn't it? We could forget sometimes who we are, but what a phenomenal change in the intelligence that we have compared to a chimpanzee or a monkey. So the problem is just this. We have this intellect which is sharp, and we don't know how to hold it.


Whichever way we touch it, it cuts us all.


The suffering human suffering on the planet is manufactured in their own mind from outside. How much suffering is happening to you? Tell me.


Nothing much. It's all it's all self-help. This is because this evolutionary process has happened so rapidly.


As Charles Darwin went about describing a goat became a giraffe. It took many million years. A pig became an elephant many, many million years.


But from monkey to man, it happened rather quickly to a point where people think there is a missing link somewhere. OK, so quickly that we have still not gotten used to this intelligence. We are struggling as to how to manage this intelligence. And this intelligence is the basis of people suffering. If you remove the brain, most of them will be peaceful.


Yes. So you're the expert. You must tell me, you know. Yeah.


In mental asylums, when people are completely out of control, they are doing lobotomy, remote part of the brain, they become peaceful. So right now, just to be peaceful and happy, such a huge challenge for most human beings simply because they are not able to conduct the the sparkle of their own intelligence. If they were little dumber, they would be peaceful.




So the problem is not of the problem is of plenty. The problem is not a positive. It is just that a certain level of intelligence, which we are not able to handle because there is no stable platform, there is an intelligence here for which there is no stable platform unless you create a stable enough platform. This intelligence will not become will not work for us. It will work against us simply because it's a sharp knife. If you don't know how to hold it, it'll cut you up.


Why we do not give a knife to a child's hand is not because knife is dangerous. Because a child's hand is not sturdy enough. He could become dangerous to himself or to somebody.


So this process of perception and understanding and consciousness, all these things are questions being asked by the intellect. Intellect is always looking at the world only in pieces, in bits and pieces, because all the information that comes to the intellect is coming true. Sense organs and sense organs perceive everything only by comparison. Without context, they cannot perceive anything but example. If I touch this glass, it feels cool to me. It is not that I know what is happening with this glass.


It is just that my body temperature in a certain way. Because of that, I feel it's cool. If I lower my body temperature and touch this, this would be warm to me. So sense organs are giving a perspective only in comparison which is useful for survival. What this means is simple. You're six feet tall, you stand like a tall man.


You walk like a tall man, you feel like a tall man. You are tall man.


You went to another society, but everybody is eight feet tall. Suddenly you stand like a short man, walk like a short man, feel like a short man. You are a short man. So I am saying this perspective of combatted, but knowing everything by comparison is only useful for survival process. Now that science science in its essence is interested in knowing, not about enslaving the world, how to use it is not a question how to know.


This is just an intrigue that from nowhere we just pop up and full-scale drama and suddenly we pop out and don't know what.


For this we have simplistic answers. OK, you will go to heaven, OK?


You will go to hell. The people that you don't like will go to hell. Of course you want me will go to heaven.


So these things are there. This is we are trying to handle our ignorance with Solis. Solis is what you're seeking. You must believe something believe is a good thing because today modern secretaries are here trying to solve these problems that human beings are having with their intelligence, which Iraq turned against themselves. Essentially, all human suffering is their own intelligence, having turned against them. That's all it is so psychiatrists are trying to handle. But they can only handle one client at a time and they need a lot of furniture and all this.


But religions and faiths have managed people for a long time. Hats off to them for that big. Was there given solace and balance to people for a very long time, but solace is one thing solution and seeking is something totally different. If you're talking about seeking to know, then belief systems are of no consequence. If solace is what you're seeking. Yes, you must believe something, because instead of going to weekly psychiatry sessions, if you simply believe something, everything will just settle down within you.


It's a fantastic tool that way. This is a place where I feel like science and mysticism have a real meeting ground. Is that this three words of I don't know. And sometimes science gets a bad reputation about this. And people say things like, well, scientists have proven this or that, but scientists never used the word proof or truth or, you know, we know this is the way it is.


Um, instead, you know, these this capacity to hold on to multiple hypotheses at the same time and say, I don't know what is the right answer is part of the scientific temperament.


It's an important part of the fabric of everything we do in science.


Is this understanding that Mother Nature is way bigger than we are and that we in our lifetimes might not get anything but one step closer to in the direction of truth.


The process, the methodology and blinded by science is not a one lifetime.


If you come for a million lifetimes still, you will not know because the phenomena of creation is such as you're studying it, it'll multiply into a million more. That is the nature of creation. The same things can become so elaborate. I think this is what is happening to science. What they thought is one thing. They looked into it, they found a million and they thought, OK, we got a million. They looked into that million. It became a billion endlessly.


It's going on because that is the nature of creation.


So looking at the physical phenomenon, wanting to know the source of creation is I'm just saying the thinking is fantastic, but the methodology will only throughout useful technologies. But how many technologies do you need to live? Well, I'm asking, OK, your iPhone six is good enough. Do you want to eight tomorrow morning? What are you going to do with it? Even the dam is six. Most people are not using and using three percent of its capabilities.


Yes, most people are not even three percent of that phone's capability.


Look, I think our science is too young still to know whether we are always going to confront a multiplication of problems or not.


I don't see the problems will be more things to study the top. Yes, but sometimes people call that we need science, by which I mean, once you understand the structure of the atom and so on, you could measure the neutron definer and find a resolution. But who cares? Because that's not the fundamental problem anymore.


And we're still at such a young age that we don't know whether science will keep bifurcating into more and more interesting questions or whether it'll just become waying things. And it doesn't matter because now we kind of get the core of it.


We might not know that for one hundred years or a thousand years, but I don't know for certain that we are doomed to infinite complexity.


It may be that we can put together a very clear.


What I'm saying is you're fundamentally implying sense organs. I agree with the sense organ is the basis of all scientific pursuit. I'm saying sense organs are not reliable instruments.


You ask the.


I just I think that the pursuit of science is really trying to surmount our sense organs, is trying to figure out just how would this amount by understanding laws of nature that we don't know why they're true, but they seem to be correct, like quantum mechanics, like basic Newtonian physics by, you know, figuring out why force equals mass times acceleration.


Why is that true? Nobody knows. But that's the way that people pursue trying to understand. It's a way of reaching into the cosmos and figuring out that there are laws that go beyond my sense organs.


I have no way to to smell or touch F equals them. And yet it seems to hold. And that's the sense in which we go beyond the little peripheral devices that we come to the table with and try to understand what's past that.


It is true that we have to translate things into equations and equations we might write down or we might hear for a blind person. But in theory, that's something that's beyond our basic sensory apparatus.


I see we distribute this we just for convenience and make it into form, OK? We look at creation as four different dimensions. Stoler, which means the gross physical creation Sukma, which means subtle. That means you cannot perceive them through sense organs. But if you hone your attention to a certain level, then you can perceive that. So this is called as vitiates a gun, which means an extraordinary perception are it's called begun today in India. In local languages, the word for signs has begun.


That means it's a vicious gun. This is gunman's extraordinary perception. So we are perceiving things that our sense organs could not perceive. But still, they are in the realm of physicality and all physicality is pursuable through sense organs. If they're horned well, if you men are to be able to perceive some other creature on the planet is able to perceive you, I think, yeah, different creatures have totally different.


They're able to perceive. That means it's still physical reality. So what is called a stoler is gross reality, which all of us can see and hear and smell what is considered a Sukma still physicality, but so subtle that your eyes and ears are not good enough for that. But if you're willing to pay attention, you can perceive then next is called a Sunia, which literally translates as emptiness in English. But emptiness is not the word. It is.


It is physicality. Without form there is no form. All physical has defined form.


But Sunia means physicality has reached a place where there is no form to it. It's just physical or its fundamental material of physicality. The next is called a Shiva, which means that which is not. That means that which is not physical at all.


So existence is seen as these four components and how to perceive these four dimensions. There's a whole methodology why I'm saying this is if only scientists who have pursued things so far into physical reality, if they pay little attention to the most fundamental physicality, which is themselves, if they turn inward rather than constantly looking through a telescope or a microscope, you to spend equal amount of time turning inward.


I think something phenomenal could come out of it.


For many scientists, the reason they turn outward is as a way of of understanding what what this is all made out of, which would include which would include understanding something about what a piece of life is.


Let me ask you this. When you say I am a piece of life, you are a piece of life. I hear that and understand that a particular way. But I want to know what you mean by a piece of life. Because what you drink is life, what you eat is life, what you breathe is life.


All this we are gathering and this is a piece of life which has acquired a certain level of information, built its own kind of software unconsciously and its own tendencies and its own character and its own personality. But that's a bubble.


It's like if you blow some bubbles, each bubble has a character of its own. When the burst, the most essential ingredient of the bubble was the air. Where is it? It's all there. So this is all air and the bubble is a piece of air. Similarly, this is all life.


This whole cosmos is a living cosmos here.


I'm a piece of life and this is life has given me this privilege that I can hold this piece of life within myself and experience it as if I'm by myself.


Everything is a fantastic privilege, but we should not abuse this. And do you see that as being illusory?


The idea that you're a piece of life and I'm a piece of life, given that we share atoms and when I'm breathing out and you're breathing in and so on, we're exchanging atoms.


Do you do you do you see that is an illusion that there is a you and a me or is that are we all the same, um, life.


See, the thing is, right now, you know, all these apps have come and different kinds of software have come.


So this is easy to understand today because people are using this as if their life they are alive in their own way because a certain amount of information has been calibrated in a certain way to do certain things. And it's almost like I think most people have a better relationship with their WhatsApp, with them, with their family. OK.


Yes. People are so engaged with it because it has a character of its own and it's even predicting what the next what you will type.


Which your family, Canada, your friends, Canada, probably.


So this is just like that, it is accumulated a certain amount of information. This was life that's available around it to be from the bubble.


This is my bubble. That's your bubble. What is the content of the bubble? It's the same stuff. But what is the surface of the bubble myself, which is entirely different from yours. And it has its own characteristic. It has its own flavor. It has its own tendencies. So this is an unconscious software that every one of is a building with phenomenal amount of information that we are requiring as we sit here. The five senses are getting a phenomenal amount of the amount of information that one gathers in 24 hours of time.


If you spend a million years, you can't process it that much information we are gathering. This is what traditionally we refer to as karma is all twisted out in America. I'm seeing the word karma. Everybody's calling themselves karma. Now, you know, people are named karma. I heard some people who are named karma. So we will suppose we see right now the we don't know how the outside world is quite good.


I think in the evening at least, the air conditioning is good. Everything is nice.


You're fine. Nobody's troubling you here, but you're sitting here miserably. Then we say it is karma. What it means is the word karma literally translates as action or doing so we say who you are right now is entirely your doing the way you have structure yourself, knowingly or unknowingly. The kind of womb that you were born in is also an unconscious choice because you created a certain type of tendencies. That's where you moved in search of that kind of tendencies.


What what facilitates that? So this software is building up all the time unconsciously. So only thing that I want to say now, he's whatever you can do unconsciously, if you are willing, if you are willing, you can do the same thing consciously. If you can build so much software unconsciously, if you are willing, you can restructure that consciously. I can show you millions of people who restructure themselves in a matter of few weeks. I can show you a few people where the very shape of their face will change in twenty four hours time simply because they start a certain process entirely.


Their whole personalities altered within a matter of one or two days of doing certain processes because distancing yourself from your genetic memory.


There's an entire process most Indians have forgotten otherwise. It was then in every family, whenever somebody dies or even when your parents are alive, there are processes how to distance yourself from your genetic memory, because this is very important.


If you want to be a unique, fresh bubble of your own, then you must distance yourself from genetic memory. Otherwise you will. 018, your great rebell, you don't want to be like your parents and this and that. You see when you're forty five, suddenly you start walking like your father, talking like your mother. Stuff is happening to you. You don't know because don't underestimate these people. They won't give up so easily. Your grandfather may be dead and gone, but the guy wants to live through you.


So the thing is to distance yourself from genetic memory so that you don't become a cyclical pattern of repetitiveness. You want to be a fresh life. That means you have to recalibrate your software consciously. Anything that you can do consciously. You can also do anything that you can do unconsciously. You can also do consciously.


If the necessary striving is there, what does it take for people to have that level of striving? It depends how far they want to go. If you if somebody comes and asks if I want to know, then I'm not the new physics. What has happened till now. If I want to know how long does it take?


If a fresh student comes and asks, is there a time you can say no, you can say, OK, start on a science undergrad. Let's see if he does undergrad and he thinks he's beginning to know everything, then you start telling him this is not it, you got to do your master's. If he does that to you and say, then you have to do your duty after your peers, do you declare that you don't know much?


That's right. That's the path of wisdom in science.


A little the most basic thing that one can do. How long does it take?


Means the most fundamental thing is, first of all, to know that there is another dimension of.


I'll be within us that there's another way of perceiving things, that there is something beyond not as a belief, not as a conclusion, not as something that is said in some scripture, always some guru or some teacher or whatever, but by yourself to know beyond this body, beyond this mind, there is something within you, this experience.


If this has to happen, I would say if you are willing to dedicate just 30 hours of absolutely focused time, if you give me in 30 hours time, we can bring you to a place, we can give you a tool through which you know something beyond your physicality, what that thing is, you don't have to jump into a conclusion, but something you're beyond your physical nature will become alive within you. And you know, that is something beyond physical nature, if that is enough inspiration for you to continue your pursuit.


But then how long it will take the entire pursuit. You cannot say each individual needs own.


They're saying, you know, OK, I have it, I have a message that we're going to go to Q&A now. And Trent, is there a pattern to the community in terms of people getting a microphone or should they just shout? OK, I see their microphone runners and people raise their hand, OK? I thought they were announcing dinnertime. But even so, my question is directed towards you, so I've heard from you in the past that for this part of seeking one does need a good one, needs someone to show the light.


So. So how does one select a group? How does one know who is the right person to take him through that?


But I've got an app for that.


So if I give you a torchlight in your hand, still does not mean you're going to find your way home.


OK, a torchlight just shows. How you see it, whether you read what the right part with how you handle this, all this is entirely left to you, but it lights up the torch, light lights up so that you don't step into your drain or you don't step into a ditch. It lights up the place. But with the torch light, many people have walked to their death. Yes, people have with headlamps on the one crashed through it.


So this is just lighting up the place. What you do is always left to you. So which is the best line today? I think a lady is doing well. So who is the best light? It is. You should not make a conclusion like that. Who is the best light on the planet? I told you, give me 30 hours. If it works very well for you, if it enhances your life.


Let's try 60 hours. If it works really fantastic. Let's try a little more. Let's go in and start.


I don't want anybody to be hanging on to me thinking I'm their savior or something. That's not the way to go for it. Experiment with it. If it works, let's put more energy and more time into it. If it works for them, let's put more energy and more time into it. I think that's the way to go. Not today. Coming here and making a decision.


OK, this is my man does not matter. OK. You know, right here, first, I would ask David for a question, and I don't want to discount science from mysticism or mysticism from science, but what I want to go through this discussion, what I had been thinking about is, as you say, you observe. How can I have a question for David first? Have you ever studied someone who has observed themselves from outside, like suspending yourself from within you and observing you and to Sadhguru?


What would be the best technique to achieve that level of human intelligence that you suspend yourself out of yourself and observe yourself?


So it depends exactly what we mean by observing yourself from the outside. There is what's called an out of body illusion that people can have. It's a it's a little complicated to explain the setup, but it has to do with wearing some video goggles and putting a camera behind you. And so you're now seeing your body with your goggles, you're seeing your own body there.


And, you know, somebody scratches your back and and you can see your back getting scratched over there and you're feeling it also.


But you're seeing your own body at a distance.


And this allows people to sometimes have a very clear experience where their body is there, but they feel like I am six feet behind over here.


So there's a neuroscience group in Europe that was able to induce this delusion when people who were even lying down and that gave them the opportunity to stick them into a brain scanner and measure brain activity while they were having this out of body experience and thought they were six feet away from their body.


Brain imaging is limited in the sense that what we can say is, well, there are particular sets of Christmas lights that light up when you're having that kind of experience.


But unfortunately, that's where science gets a little bit stuck because we can describe the neural correlates of subjective experience, but we don't know yet why they're identical to that subjective experience. So the answer to your question is it has been measured, but the answer is not satisfying. I must tell you my experience of this, I don't subject to these indignities anymore. Many years ago, it happened that somebody wanted to I was in some institute in India and with a little bit of an obligation, I said, OK, they wanted to study my, you know, measure my gamma waves in my brain.


I did not know I had gamma waves in my brain.


They said, no, you have we want to study. You meditate. I said, I don't know any meditation. They said, you teach meditation to everybody. I said, yes, I did them because they don't know how to sit still. You teach them methods of sitting still if you want to sit still, but their problem is their scientific study. They want the name of the meditation, the method. Then what happens to the gamma wave?


Something that's how the process is.


Then I had to put some 14 electrodes to me and I said that after some time, maybe 15, 20 minutes, they with some metallic object, they started hitting my knee. I thought, okay, part of their experiment is out there. Then the my ankles, you know, that that funny place. Yeah, that very painful place. They hit that place. I thought, OK, it's that experiment done. Experiment is painful, but it became very persistent and extremely painful.


Then I slowly opened my eyes, OK, why am I being beaten up like this?


I open my eyes and they were all giving me a weird look.


I said, Did I do something wrong? They said, according to our instruments, you are dead.


So that's a great diagnosis. And then they said, you're either dead or your brain dead. I said, no, no, that's too insulting. I'll take the first diagnosis. I'm dead. I'm OK if you're going really if you give me a certificate that I'm dead, I can live with that. If you give me a certificate, I'm brain dead. That's not a good thing.


So I don't know what this thing was about. But what I'm saying is all instruments created by us are definitely lesser instruments than this one. It can't be more than that, though. A telephone can speak that far and I can only speak this for all this.


But they are lesser instruments in terms of sophistication, in terms of a particular action. They may be bigger than us. A bicycle can go run faster than I can run. A motorcycle can go much faster. Better than aircraft which can fly. Yes, all that is there. But in terms of sophistication, there cannot be anything more sophisticated than who we are because we cannot create something more sophisticated than ourselves. Whatever we create will be a byproduct of who we are.


So in that context, using instruments to measure, yes, you can you can very easily fool the brain. You know, it's it's very simple. There are many, many techniques like this in yoga like. But I mean, David is talking about how he was talking to me about how you could trick the mind. That smell can become a sound. A sound can become something else. The whole lot of without all these gadgets, there are many ways that you could trick the human mind.


And the magicians of the world have mastered this thing, you know, simply like this, the big things out of your pocket without your knowing what's happening to you, because there is a certain way that you can use the faculty to go behind that and do certain things that are part in terms of fundamental sophistication that is nothing more sophisticated than this gadget.


This is the gadget. And this is the only form of experience you have with the world. When I said this is the only form of experience you have right now, can you see me?


All of you just use your hands and point out, where am I? Oh, you got it all wrong. You know, I am a I'm a mystic from South India.


Now, this light is falling upon me, reflecting inverted image in the retina. You know, the whole story. Where do you see me now? Within yourself? Where do you hear me now? Within yourself, whether within the whole world, within yourself. Everything that ever happened to you happened only within you. Right now, someone next to you that touch your hand, you think you're feeling their hand now you're only experiencing the sensations in your hand.


You do one thing. You make somebody touch you like this five times. Just observe this after that. No hand. That person is not here. Simply sit here. You can create the same sensation. Either you can do it with external stimuli or you can internally manufacture anything that you want, what you call mental problems or mental diseases.


It's just that they're creating many things without external stimuli all the time. It's happening. It's happening to everybody in so many different ways. When it goes out of control, we call it enablement. Otherwise, almost every human being is various experiences they are creating without any external stimuli. If you go through your dream, a dream is as true as a reality when you are going through it, isn't it? I was you know, we started a school a few years ago and this eight year old boy, I just walked into the school, the eight year old boy comes and I said, Is life real or is it a dream?


I look at this eight year old, you have to come with the truth. You know, I said life is a dream, but a dream is true also.


Do you always like this?


Only, but that's a fact. Life is a dream the way it's happening within you right now. It's a dream. But the dream is true in your experience. But this dream, you can make it whichever way you want, whichever way you want in the sense. What a joke in the sense we're on a certain day a lady went to sleep in her sleep. She had a dream in her dream, she saw a hunk of a man standing there staring at her.


Then he started coming closer and closer and closer. He came so close she could even feel his breath and she trembled, not in fear. Then she asked, What will you do to me? The man said, Well, lady, it's your dream.


If you want to say something, please, so it's your dream, you can make whatever out of it and we can make this into your fantastic dream for ourselves and for everybody on this planet. Science and technology has done wonderful things for us to enhance our dreams, but I want the scientists to meditate.


Thank you very much.