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Due to the graphic nature of this killer's crimes, listener discretion is advised this episode includes discussions of murder, assault and graphic violence that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under 13.


On the evening of October 13th, 1972, 25 year old Herbert Mullin cruised along a windy stretch of the Santa Cruz Mountains to the casual observer.


The young man appeared to be enjoying a peaceful solo drive. But Herbert wasn't exactly alone.


Passengers rode along with him inside his head. Voices warned him that the world was in grave danger. A giant earthquake was headed toward California, and the voices insisted that Herbert was the only man who could stop it if he wanted to save the lives of thousands.


Herbert needed to take one today.


Only if he made a sacrifice to God could natural disaster be prevented.


Herbert gripped the steering wheel tightly, trying to make sense of the instructions the voices were feeding him. But just as he rounded the band, he spotted a lonely hitchhiker up the road and the voices quieted.


Herbert pulled his car to the side of the road and took a deep breath.


He nodded at the hitchhiker, heading his way, then glanced at the baseball bat in his back seat.


He knew what he had to do.


Hi, I'm Greg Polson. This is Serial Killers, a Spotify original from podcast. Every episode we dive into the minds and madness of serial killers. Today, we're taking a look at Herbert Mullein, otherwise known as the earthquake killer. I'm here with my co-host, Vanessa Richardson. Hi, everyone.


You can find episodes of Serial Killers and all other Spotify originals from podcast for free on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.


Today, we'll examine Herbert Mullan's idyllic childhood and discuss how his schizophrenia diagnosis turned a young man with a bright future into an unpredictable murderer.


Next time, we'll dive into Herberts escalating killing spree and follow his bizarre trial.


We've got all that and more coming up.


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Visit Target Dotcom Slash PC gaming to start your adventure today when a killer enters a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity. How often do we actually believe it? Many killers are diagnosed with mental illness, and it's perhaps understandable to be wary when it's used as an excuse because it's clear that some killers are only too aware of their actions, that what they're doing is wrong.


But then there are some people for whom their mental illness is an inescapable trap, a chemical imbalance in their brain that, if left untreated, can lead to strange behavior. And in the most extreme cases, it can lead to murder.


Sometimes there are no childhood warning signs that someone's destined to be a killer. For some, everything more or less goes right. Born in Salinas, California, in 1947, Herbert Mullein was one of those people with his parents, Bill and Gene and his older sister, Patricia. Herbert enjoyed a relatively blissful, normal childhood.


When Herbert was five, his family moved 100 miles north to San Francisco, where his father got a job as a furniture salesman. His mother, a devout Catholic, stayed home with the children in whom she instilled her strong religious values.


Both parents always put Herbert and Patricia first. As such, most of his salary went to their parochial school because Bill and Jean felt that a private Catholic institution would give their kids the best education.


Their constant love and attention paid off. Herbert was a gentle, intelligent child. He made friends, easily made good grades, and he got along with his sister.


Of course, there wasn't much room for Herbert to make any mistakes. While there are no reports of Bill and Gene being anything but kind, caring parents, they were known to be very strict. Their mother's constant focus on religion, coupled with a Catholic education, forced Herbert and Patricia to adhere to a strict code of ethics.


But that wasn't the only way in which the parents were rigid. Bill was a World War Two veteran, and his military background might have contributed to an unyielding stance on discipline. But it also provided him with plenty of gory details to share with his son, which may have negatively impacted young Herbert's mental health.


Vanessa is going to take over and the psychology here and throughout the episode. Please note, Vanessa is not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, but she has done a lot of research for this show. Thanks, Greg. The research on the psychological effects of having a veteran for a parent focuses almost exclusively on the impact of said parents PTSD. But because the existence of PTSD wasn't officially recognized by the U.S. government until 1980, there's no way to know for sure if Bill dealt with a condition or not.


However, a 1989 study published in the Journal of Geriatric Psychiatry and Neurology discovered that as many as 54 percent of World War Two combat veterans may have suffered from undiagnosed PTSD.


It's entirely possible that Bill Mullane was one of those vets. And according to psychiatrist Robert Rosen, head trauma from war is often passed on to the next generation. His 1986 study of the children of World War Two veterans suggests that regardless of the level of PTSD experienced by the soldier, most of the offspring were adversely affected by their father's military service. The children spent their lives paying constant attention to their father's unpredictable moods, nightmares or obsessions. Some kids ended up identifying as rescuers, which meant that they felt a consistent need to save and help their fathers.


Others developed preoccupations with winning fights or surviving danger bills, playful boxing matches with herbut before dinner.


And his stories about the U.S. military may have seemed innocent to him, but to his young son, they may have been inadvertently traumatizing.


That being said, according to Bill, Herbut didn't give any indication that these interactions were negatively impacting him at all. Even when the family uprooted again to move to Santa Cruz in 1963, 16 year old Herbert displayed no signs of mental instability. In fact, he flourished as a teen. Herbert was quite popular, maintained great grades and played for his school's varsity football team. He spent most free time with his best friend, Dean, and his girlfriend Loretta by the end of his senior year in 1965.


Eighteen year old Herbut was voted most likely to succeed by his classmates he applied to Cabriolet College with. Plans for a career in engineering, but in the summer of 1965, just after his high school graduation, everything changed. Herbert's best friend Dean was killed in a car accident, overwhelmed with grief. Herbert built a shrine in his bedroom to commemorate Dean as he pasted photographs onto his walls. He tried to make sense of the terrible tragedy alone in his sorrow.


Herbert began to wonder if there was a deeper meaning behind Dean's death. Eventually, it seems, he arrived at the following conclusion. His best friend was taken from him in order to save the lives of others. To Herbert, this line of thinking felt orderly. It gave Dean's death a purpose, and it gave meaning to a chaotic universe.


It also changed the direction of his future in a move that perhaps stood opposed to his Catholic upbringing. Herbert switched his major from engineering to philosophy. Before long, he was fascinated with Eastern religions and the concept of reincarnation.


Because of the free thinking nature of the 1960s, Herbert's friends and family thought little of his abrupt change in personality. They likely figured that it was normal to behave differently after a death and that his new interests were just a product of the times. Even when Herbert started experimenting with marijuana. No one thought much of it. The drug was notoriously popular among college students, and it seemed Herbert was just going along with the crowd.


But in the summer of 1966, 19 year old Herbert began experimenting with harder substances like hallucinogens, and his strange behavior became harder to ignore. LSD, in particular, caused him to retreat into himself, where he began to nurture dark, paranoid thoughts about natural disasters. He also started hearing voices in his head, some of which contributed to his paranoia. Herbert didn't talk about them with anyone at the time, but if he had, someone might have recognized that his strange behavior wasn't just due to grief or drugs.


They were symptoms of schizophrenia. That's not to say that Dean's death and Herbert's recreational substance use didn't impact his mental health. The trauma Herbert endured after suffering the loss of his best friend may have triggered the emergence of his schizophrenia, a mental illness that often doesn't manifest until early adulthood. And while his experimentation with marijuana and LSD didn't cause his schizophrenia, it very well could have exacerbated it. According to psychiatric nurse practitioners Dr. Timothy Legge and Kathleen Davis, hallucinogens in particular, are known to intensify symptoms of the condition and those like Herbut who are genetically predisposed to it.


Of course, Herbert didn't recognize that his auditory hallucinations were abnormal. In fact, he didn't think his thoughts or his behavior were peculiar whatsoever. All the same, he may have felt judged by Lorretta. And in the summer of 1966, he broke off the relationship.


Herbert then spent the rest of his summer working with a road engineering crew. The hard labor and time spent outdoors seemed to reset his mind, and he started to miss Loretta terribly. He returned to school in the fall and by January of 1967, he couldn't stand being away from his high school sweetheart any longer.


He promised Loretta that he had learned his lesson and would quit using the drugs that made him so different. Then he asked her to marry him. She said yes.


Once he was reunited with Loretta, Herbert seemed to level out once again. It appears he switched his major back to engineering and graduated early that summer. Then he enrolled in San Jose State with the intent of furthering his education and getting another degree.


But shortly after Herbert began classes that September, he started to drift again. He became deeply involved in protesting the Vietnam War and dropped out of school to pursue his newfound hippie lifestyle full time.


A few months later, in January of 1968, Herbert applied to register as a conscientious objector of the war, which meant that he was exercising his right to refuse military service due to freedom of thought, conscience or religion while waiting for his objector status to be approved.


Herbert reportedly started using drugs again heavily. His incoherent rambling returned. He broke up with Loretta again, announced that he was bisexual and allegedly started having sexual relationships with men. Despite the erratic behavior, Herbert's father is said to have written a letter to the draft on his son's behalf in support of his conscientious objector status. Bill Mullen reportedly wrote that his son was very peacefully minded and as a veteran, he supported Herbert's choice not to enlist. Herbert status was approved in October of 1968.


Over the next few months, Herbert made grand plans for his future. He decided that in. Out of utilizing his engineering degree, he wanted to move to India and study yoga. He started putting away the money he had made while working at a local goodwill and bragged to everyone about his impending Asian adventure. But Herbut never made it to India. Instead, in early 1969. The 21 year old moved into a trailer in his sister, Patricia's backyard in Sebastopol, California.


The decision to stay close to his family certainly seemed like a more stable choice than some of Herbert's recent plans. But as Patricia and her husband, who will call John, spent more time with Herbert, they realized that he was anything but stable. In fact, he appeared to be seriously disturbed.


Coming up, Herbert's unhinged behavior scares the people closest to him.


Hi, listeners.


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Now back to the story, in early 1969, 21 year old Herbert Moland moved into a trailer on the ranch owned by his older sister, Patricia, and her husband, John. About a month after his arrival, Herbert's behavior allegedly took a disturbing turn over dinner one night. The evening started out pleasant enough. Patricia, John and Herbert sat around the table, enjoying a hearty meal and making small talk. But as the evening went on, Patricia noticed her brother mimic everything her husband did when John picked up a glass.


So did Herbert. When John ate a fork full of food, so did Herbert. He also repeated everything John said, imitating his tone and volume when Herbert wasn't copying John's words and actions. He sat completely still, staring blankly at his dinner companions. Patricia was extremely concerned. Herbert liked John. He had never poked fun at him before. Then again, he didn't really seem to be mocking him. Now this was something different. In fact, Herbert appeared to have no idea that he was mimicking Patricia's husband at all.


She couldn't tell if her brother was on drugs or if something was seriously wrong at that dinner. It's likely that Herbert was displaying echolalia and Echo Proxima, which are the exact repetition of speech and action respectively. Both of these involuntary tics are part of a specific set of symptoms displayed by some people with schizophrenia that are collectively known as catatonia. According to the DSM, five, catatonia in general refers to the mute, expressionless state that Herbert was in, as well as his mimicking of John's speech and gestures.


It's generally believed that most patients with catatonic schizophrenia are not able to get help for their illness on their own. They don't necessarily realize they're behaving abnormally and therefore don't see a reason to seek assistance. Instead, it's often a family member who notices something is awry and gets the patient positioned for treatment.


This was exactly what happened with Herbert and his sister, Patricia. She spoke to Herbert about his conduct at dinner and he was apparently just as upset by it as she was. Together, they decided that the best course of action was to seek professional help at the beginning of April. Herbert voluntarily checked into the Mendocino State Hospital during his six week stay. Doctors officially diagnosed him with schizophrenia that had been exacerbated by his drug use.


He was prescribed therapy and antipsychotic medication while he was at the hospital because Herbert had committed himself.


It seemed like things are on the up and up when he checked himself out in May of 1969. His friends and family expected to see big changes in the 22 year old. But almost as soon as Herbert left treatment, he stopped complying with his doctors directives. He didn't continue with therapy and he stopped taking his medication. It's unclear what drove Herbert's decision, but sometimes people who experience the positive effects of mental health treatment might consider themselves cured or their improved mental condition might fool them into believing they never needed treatment in the first place.


So they stopped treatment.


Neglecting his mental health had immediate, alarming effects on Herbert's behavior. For starters, he allegedly asked Patricia if she would have sex with him and when she told him she wouldn't. He reportedly asked if her husband would upset Patricia, and John promptly told her to leave.


So a month after he left the hospital, Herbert moved down to Lake Tahoe. There, he found work as a dishwasher at a gambling resort. When he wasn't working, Herbert allegedly spent the summer getting high, spending his wages on marijuana and LSD.


At the end of the season, Herbert left his job in Lake Tahoe and went back to Santa Cruz, where he moved in with his parents around August of 1969. Trouble flared up again, wanting to spend a night under the stars. Herbert tried to set up a tent in a forest where camping wasn't allowed when a park ranger approached him to tell him he needed to vacate the premises. Herbert pulled a knife on the man and threatened to stab him.


The ranger called the police and Herbert was arrested. No charges were filed, but it was clear that Herbert was under the influence of drugs. So he was ordered to enter a prevention center and begin treatment for drug abuse. Herbert didn't stay in the prevention center long, and his upsetting behavior increased upon his release in October.


By this stage, the voices in his head were more prominent, and he reportedly took to burning his penis with a lit cigarette. He also made an obscene sexual pass at a friend.


According to one account, the guy was troubled enough by Herbert's advances that he mentioned the incident to someone in his family with a medical degree.


The doctor correctly deduced that Herbert was exhibiting signs of schizophrenia and convinced the local sheriff that he needed to be committed after meeting with. About the sheriff agreed that herbut was a potential danger to himself and others and ordered him to check into the San Luis Obispo County Hospital. Herbert was irate.


He told his parents there was nothing wrong with him and that he'd been forcibly committed. Bill and Jeanne understood his frustration but didn't agree with his self-assessment. They visited their son and wrote him letters during his stay, but insisted that he continue being treated for his mental illness.


Once again, Herbert was diagnosed as a schizophrenic. However, this time the psychiatrist assigned to treat him classified his patient as a paranoid schizophrenic. Because the subtypes of schizophrenia overlapped so much, the DSM five no longer recognizes them today. However, in 1969, a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia was considered valid. Herbert's exhibition of delusions, hallucinations and impulse control all fell within the expected symptoms of the condition, making the psychiatrist's assessment an easy one.


Herbert stayed in the San Luis Obispo County Hospital for eight weeks. But in late November 1969, the 22 year old was released and allowed to move back in with his parents.


However, the psychiatrist who diagnosed Herbert likely had great reservations about allowing such a disturbed young man back out into the public. Given his history, it was clear that Herbert needed regular treatment. So the doctor ordered him to attend sessions at the Santa Cruz Mental Health Clinic in order to keep up his treatment.


However, Herbert rarely attended these sessions. He also rarely took his prescribed medication and hardly ever visited the therapy group his doctors recommended.


Herbert didn't offer any reasons for his resistance to treatment. Whether he thought he was cured or whether he decided his mental health had never been a problem in the first place is unclear. But we know that it wasn't long before he moved out of his parents house, most likely because they didn't agree about how to proceed with his care.


In the spring of 1970, Herbert left his parents home, hoping to be accepted into a local Santa Cruz commune. He had visited the commune often and enjoyed the free spirited nature of the group. Unfortunately, the residents didn't take well to Herbert. His bizarre behavior scared them, and they rejected his application for residency.


However, he did make one friend. During his visits. An older woman took a liking to Herbert, and they decided to take a vacation to Hawaii together. Not long after they arrived in Maui, his friend went off in her own direction and left herbut alone. The 23 year old felt abandoned and depressed and decided to check himself into yet another mental health clinic.


He spent the summer of 1970 working on his mental stability and teaching yoga and nonviolence to other patients at the clinic. Once again, it seemed like Herbert turned a corner, but his departure from the clinic proved otherwise. In July, he checked himself out of the Maui clinic while allegedly still wearing his hospital gown after wandering around for a while. Herbert called his parents and asked them to pay for his plane ticket home, worried about their son, Bill and Jean agreed and waited with bated breath to see if he would actually make it back.


Much to his parents relief, Herbert immediately hopped on a plane to Santa Cruz. But on July 30th, 1970, he began displaying violent behavior. The police were called, and Herbert was arrested for being under the influence and for the possession of various drugs while in his jail cell. Herbert's behavior was so erratic that the police decided to have him involuntarily committed to the county hospital psychiatric ward while in the hospital.


Herbert refused treatment, however, because the authorities decided to drop the charges against Herbert, he was required by law to be released after 72 hours, despite his troubling mental state. Herbert Mullin was allowed back out into the public and his downward spiral was just beginning.


Coming up, the voices in Herberts head become clearer than ever.


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Contact your local Land Rover retailer today to schedule a test drive Land Rover above and beyond. Now back to the story, in July of 1970, 23 year old Herbert Mullein was released from the hospital yet again. His mental health, which had been steadily declining for several years, proved to be worse than ever for reasons unknown. He put himself on a macrobiotic diet, which consisted almost solely of whole grains and vegetables. Already slight, Herbert lost a lot of weight incredibly fast, giving him a haunting, gaunt look and as if changing his body from the inside wasn't enough, Herbert started switching up his look as well.


He had worn long hair and beaded necklaces for a while, but suddenly took to wearing business suits and pretending to be an executive. After that got dull, he shaved his head, thanked a Mexican accent and sported a sombrero. The rapid, confusing style adjustments seem to reflect a mind in turmoil, and things weren't getting any smoother for Herbert.


He was detained by the police yet again in early 1971 for public intoxication and resisting arrest. After a short stay in jail, the public intoxication charges were dropped and he was released. However, because Herbert never followed through on the treatment plans that had been repeatedly recommended by the various mental health facilities he visited. Very little changed throughout this time. Herbert lived with his parents. His inability to hold on a consistent job had left him penniless so he couldn't afford to rent a place on his own.


Even though Bill and Jean were remarkably kind and lenient with their troubled son, Herbert blame them for all of his problems. Suddenly, he looked at his normal, loving childhood through a disturbed lens.


Herbert said that his mother's focus on religion and his father's rigidity caused his same sex attraction. He also claimed that the playful boxing matches he and Bill had were actually terrifying, torturous experiences for him. The pronouncements left his parents shocked, not that Herbert cared.


In May of 1971, at 24 years old, he cut ties with his parents and drove about 75 miles north to San Francisco. He reportedly found an apartment in a rundown part of the city, which he shared with a few other drifters and drug users.


Herbert now had a whole new population of people to confront, scare and attempt to befriend. He liked to approach women on the street and ask if they would marry him. He would do the same in the city's gay friendly neighborhoods, asking men he met in bars if they wanted to move in with him. He was, of course, consistently rejected. His eccentric behavior wasn't limited to romantic conquests. Herbert went to a Catholic church and shouted in the middle of service that they were not preaching proper Christianity.


He tried boxing at a local gym and was kicked out for refusing to stop assailing his opponents even after winning when Herbert wasn't accosting strangers with strange requests or fighting people in a boxing ring.


He spent most of his time at the public library. A new friend had reinvigorated Herberts interest in reincarnation, and as Herbert looked into the theory, he found what he believed to be the perfect explanation for the voices he kept hearing inside his head.


Herbert was sure that he was receiving telepathic messages from God who had chosen him to complete a mission. The specifics of that mission weren't yet clear to him. But that didn't matter to him. Positive that he was truly someone special, Herbert began looking into aspects of his life or confirmation that he was as important as he felt.


He discovered that his birthday, April 18th, was also the day that Albert Einstein died. Because of this, Herbert decided he was destined to be as significant as Einstein was. This kind of irrational leap in logic is not uncommon for schizophrenics. Deficits in logical and deductive reasoning have long been associated with schizophrenia, according to Robert Ressler, an FBI agent who pioneered the psychological profiling of serial killers. Schizophrenics will often take information from various sources, weave bits and pieces of it together, and draw delusional conclusions when schizophrenics perceive meaningful connections between unrelated things.


It's called apophenia. The term was coined by a German psychiatrist named Klaus Conrade back in 1958, and its presence can indicate that a patient's schizophrenia has reached an acute level.


When Herbert drew a line between his birth and Albert Einstein's death, it should have been clear to everyone that his psychosis was officially out of control. Unfortunately, he was surrounded by other addicts who likely couldn't see beyond their own issues. So Herbert didn't receive the help he desperately needed.


For the next year and a half, he stayed in San Francisco, getting high and nurturing his delusions by September of 1972. It seems that Herbert may have made up with his parents the 20. Five year old drove back to their house in Santa Cruz and moved in with them once again upon his relocation, Herbert's apophenia grew even more out of control sometime that fall. He learned that April 18th was also the date of the famous San Francisco earthquake of 1986.


It was another connection between his birthday and a significant world event.


At the time, seismologists were predicting a major upcoming earthquake in California. As Herbert read the weather reports, he became certain that God's mission for him was to prevent future earthquakes. He was also convinced that the only way to do so was to make human sacrifices in Herbert's mind.


The reason there hadn't been an earthquake in California in several years was due to the numerous deaths occurring in the Vietnam War. Once again, his apophenia created connections where there weren't any.


By piecing together these mismatched fragments, Herbert finally understood what the rambling voices in his mind were telling him to do kill a few in order to save many. So what could he do but obey?


On October 13th, 1972, Herbert was driving down a remote stretch of the Santa Cruz Mountains when he spotted a hitchhiker. The man extending his thumb on the side of the road was 55 year old Lawrence White, a transient. Glancing around him, Herbert realized that they were totally alone. It was the perfect opportunity to make his first sacrifice.


Herbert pulled over to the side of the road, facing car trouble. He asked Lawrence if he might take a look at the engine. Lawrence happily complied, perhaps hoping to score a ride for his trouble. Herbert pop the hood and Lawrence bent over and peered inside.


As Herbert watched the man examine his car, he believed he could hear Lawrence's voice in his head. The man was telepathically asking to be killed, so Herbert hastily retrieved a baseball bat from his car, strode over to Lawrence and beat him to death. He didn't bother to hide the body. Instead, he just dragged it onto the grass and left it there while he drove away.


Lawrence's body was found the next day, but the death seemed of little concern to anyone because Lawrence was a transient with no family. His death didn't make any headlines. His funeral was unattended and the investigation into his murder was closed almost as quickly as it began.


Herbert had gotten away with his first murder and it had been incredibly easy. Now the voices in his head grew louder and stronger. They told him that the first kill was a test and he had passed it.


They also told him that the earth was still polluted by the presence of humans and that the only way to prevent natural disaster was to kill again. So 11 days after Herbert murdered Lawrence White, he sought out a second victim.


He went out for a drive and spotted another hitchhiker on the side of the road. 24 year old Mary Guilfoile was headed to a job interview in Santa Cruz.


Even though Mary knew not to get into a car with strangers, she trusted Herbert. The minute he rolled down his window, he was small, attractive and soft-spoken. He didn't seem like he would hurt a fly, so she accepted his offer to take her into town.


Unfortunately, Mary's initial impression was wrong. Shortly after he began driving, Herbert pulled a hunting knife out of his pocket. He kept one hand on the steering wheel. He plunged the knife into Mary's chest. It's presumed that the single stab wound killed her quickly.


Then he pulled over and dragged Mary's body into the woods. There he undressed her and cut open her abdomen. He pulled out Mary's organs and examined them one by one, hanging them each from tree branches to get a better look. If humans were indeed polluting the earth and causing earthquakes, it seems Herbert was curious to see what was going on inside them. Perhaps there would be something visibly wrong that he could point to. It's unclear what Herbert, a man with no medical education or experience, was hoping to find.


Nor do we know if he saw anything that he believed to be useful.


Yet again, Herbert didn't bother to bury or conceal the body before leaving the crime scene. However, because he'd taken Mary's body to a secluded area, her body went undiscovered for some time. With each day that passed after Mary's murder, Herbert likely became more and more confident that he was doing the right thing, not only how he avoided detection by the police, but he was certain he'd prevented yet another earthquake. In his mind, Mary's life had been taken for a valuable cause.


But even though Herbert felt that he was saving lives, a part of him still felt guilty about what he was doing. Nine days after murdering Mary, Herbert decided he needed to consult a priest about his recent activity. On November 2nd, 1972, Herbert walked into St. Mary's Church in Los Gatos, about 20 miles outside of Santa Cruz. He pushed into the confessional booth, prepared to tell everything to the priest sitting on the other side of the partition. He was this close to turning a corner to recognizing that he was sick and that what he was doing was wrong.


But it doesn't seem that Herbert said anything. Instead, he listened to the voices in his head, were talking again, and they were telling him it was time to kill. Thanks again for tuning in to serial killers will be back soon with part two of HERBUT Mullen as the earthquake killer continues his bloody mission from God.


For more information on Herbut Mullen, amongst the many sources we used, we found Whoever Fights Monsters by Robert Kressler and Tom Schokman extremely helpful to our research.


You can find more episodes of Serial Killers and all other Spotify originals from Paşa cast for free on Spotify. We'll see you next time. Have a killer week.


Serial Killers is a Spotify original from podcast. Executive producers include Max and Ron Cuddler Sound Design by Nick Johnson with production assistance by Ron Shapiro, Carly Madden and Joshua Kern. This episode of Serial Killers was written by Lee Reid with writing assistants by Jane O and Joel Kaplan, fact checking by Bennett Logan and research by Brian Peatross and Chelsea Wood. Serial Killers stars Greg Polson and Vanessa Richardson.