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Toyota built for a better world. This week in Needham, Massachusetts, a mystery pops up surrounding a horrific death, but after some investigation, it's not such a mystery after all, just a very, very disturbing mess. Welcome to small town murder.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to small town murder. Yeah, indeed, Jim. Yeah, indeed. My name is James Petraglia. I'm here with my co-host, Jimmy Whisnant. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us. Once again, we cannot be more happy to be here with you.

And if you are your first time joining us, welcome. You are in for a weird one as your first one. This one is to have to tell you off the top, very, very disturbing.

Like we said in the opening, it's a it's a disturbing one. So, you know, kind of, you know, get yourself ready for that, guard it up for a little bit of a just some creepy stuff going on here. So watch out for that. But thank everybody, first of all, for this week. Everything you've done for us reviews mean a lot to us if you haven't done it yet. Apple podcast, that purple icon, please give us five stars helps.

And we don't know why. It feels good. It feels good.

Head over to shut up and give me murder. Dotcom for everything. Crime and sports and small town murder related. You're going to want to get all your merchandise. You got to get the new cheer up bitch. Christmas sweater design. It's fantastic as you look at it. It's great on the march I can give me murder. I compare that to your virtual party. It's amazing. You're going to love that. And we have to tell you to want to announce it right now that all of the shows for the first one, is it the first five months or something of twenty twenty one have been moved into the second half of the year as we kind of all knew that was coming.

It was kind of obvious there's not going to be any thousand seat theater gatherings in January. I'm not going we just. Yeah, we just you know, that's not we can't help that. That's just the way it is. So that's all move there. There'll be new dates announced and everything will be up on the on the site. And I understand it's annoying and it's been like multiple reschedules not up. You know, that's the world. It's what it is.

So, yeah, check up on that and get your tickets for shows whenever they are. So check on all of that. What else? Patriot. Yes, definitely patriot and all sorts of stuff on Patriot on if you want bonus stuff, we got it for you. This week's episode that we did this last couple of days ago on the Chris Watts mess and the American murder documentary. What a disaster that guy is. And yeah, we got in that pretty deep as far as the whole story in the documentary goes on Patriots.

And every week we have all sorts of crazy or every other week, all sorts of crazy patriots stuff for you. And you get access to all the crime and sports patriot. You can't beat it. Patriots Dotcom Slash Crime and crime in sports. Patreon Dotcom Slash Crime and sports. Right. That's better.

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Quick disclaimer, comedy show this. This is definitely a comedy podcast there. It's a story of horrific murder. Obviously, that's what it is every week. And I might say, how does that work exactly? But it does work somehow. That's the thing is the main reason why it works is because we go out of our way not to make fun of the victims or the victims. Families lie because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags.

It is. That's how it works. So that's kind of our whole theory of the show. If you are, too, you can be an asshole to be great. Don't be a scumbag. And there's plenty of stuff around sensitive things that are funny, that aren't sensitive. They're just crazy. So there's a lot to make fun of there. And as we'll find out to sometimes investigations aren't what they should be, as we'll find out. And today, possibly and you know, things like that, there's plenty to make fun of.

Small towns are always fun and we all come from somewhere that sucks. So you'd lighten up about that and we'll all have a good time, if that sounds good to everybody out there. I think it's time. I think it's time to clear the lungs. I think it's time to shout shut up and give me my guitar.

Let's do this. All right. Let's go on a trip, OK?

Shall we go in Idaho? Indiana. I'm in Arizona. So we went we've gone Florida, Arizona. And now we're going to go all the way back over to the northeast now. So or try angling this country. Well, we hung out in the Midwest for a little while. I figured we should really travel South a bit, too. Yeah. So we're going to traverse all around here. We're going to Massachusetts. Right. Needham, Mass.

Needham, which is spelled Needsome. Yep. They need him there. And he said, please, I'll never be there. I need my ham. It's please. Eastern Massachusetts. It's thirty minutes outside of Boston. It's a Boston suburb. You know, it's kind of like it's west of actually you are south maybe south of because the other one was on the north side last time. So it's you work here.

You live here. You have a good job in Boston. You take the train in and you live here in a big house that's too expensive. So on it, that's how it works. Thirty minutes to Boston, to downtown Boston. Forty five minutes to Providence, Rhode Island. Yeah. So, I mean, you could. It's that close, it's the everything's that close there. Yeah, Rhode Island, I mean, Rhode Island's right there. Not that fucking suburb.

Yeah.

If you're in Providence, you get all the Boston news and that's your local news is Boston shit. Yeah, well, the Boston sports and everything like that. 45 minutes to Salem, Massachusetts, which is our last Massachusetts episode, which was episode 156.

You know, they closed that shit down for Halloween. Yeah. They didn't want anybody even near the top.

Didn't want to come. Everyone from all around bring your disease here. Thanks. Now stay home. But it's crazy because Salem in India in fall. I mean, that's that's that's our holiday season.

It's everything that's there. Yeah. That's their whole job. That's how they make money. They're going to be broke as fuck this year.

We did that in January of twenty twenty, which might as well be nineteen sixty one. Yeah. That seems like it was so long ago. It seems like we had like big sized mutton chop sideburns and like it was, you know, that's sort of like panel walls and like it's in sort of that sepia so long ago as January was.

Oh bottoms and rollers. Oh yeah. It's no big collars. Jimmy, let me tell you, I got like a big medallion and chest hair, even though I don't really have just heard the big fluffy tuft of it. Oh my. This is in Norfolk County, seven eight one area code. Thirty three square miles of towns. It's a it's a big area. And the motto of it is kind of a sort of a revolutionary war because everything around here sort of, you know, that Revolutionary War era don't shoot till you see the whites of their eyes.

Yeah. This is close enough to Boston to see the red of their hair.

So it's a good model. Sorry, sorry. Boston Irish people feel the weight of the race is close enough to feel the heat.

So, oh, lost a little bit of history and there's a shitload of Revolutionary War history. I'm not going to get into that stuff. That's you can look that all up. Well documented, more things that are specific to this town. And in 1865, William Carter established a knitting mill in Needham Heights that would eventually become a huge manufacturer and leading brand of children's apparel. You know, all those carders.

Shit that the babies. Oh, that's them. That's this guy. Wow. That's William Carter and a little six year old Billy Carter in eighteen sixty five there. The Billy Carter wasn't a fuck up here. He apparently did this. He made this. And the site of the mill currently houses a an assisted living center. OK, so it's not a mill anymore. And then they in nineteen sixties the company moved to China, moved to Atlanta, Georgia.

Okay. All right. Yeah. Which is funny. They moved their whole everything down there, their headquarters and all that shit. Fascinating. In the late 1860, eighteen sixties, a guy named William Emerson Baker moved to Needham and he was a wealthy man. He had improved the mechanical sewing machine. OK, so I proved in Baker sewing machines was a sewing machine. This guy, I want to say, has something to do with New York, too.

There's some connection to this guy and the Dakota apartment building, the one John Lennon lived in, real shot outside. That's very famous. I can't remember exactly what, but there's. Oh, no, that was the singer guy. OK, never mind. That was the singer sewing guy. Never mind. No, totally different thing. Delete that. Delete that whole thing from your memories. Everybody that to hang on to it like the cheese mark.

Yeah.

Or hang on to that or look up that the singer sewing in the Dakota thing is a weird thing with his wife. It's a whole long story. It's fascinating. Absolutely fascinating and crazy. So anyway, yeah, this guy improved the sewing machine and he assembled a parcel of land that was about eight eight hundred acres and named it Rich Hill Farm. And he built two manmade lakes, including lakes that are still there, really made a lake that's still there and turned his property into an amusement park with exotic animals, tunnels, trick floors and mirrors.

Oh, boy. Whoa. What did he do to the kids there, dude?

An eighteen seventies amusement park. Well, trick with kids would just die. They just tell your parents sorry too. Your kids are eaten by our floor and then a giraffe stopped them. I'm sorry. I have the parents would be like, oh well that's what happens. I guess we are lucky we had 14 other children. That's why you have sixteen kids, because two of them will be eaten by tricolours and trampled by giraffes and then follow the lions around for the next couple of days and you'll get them back.

He'll get them back. Don't worry, at least their clothes or they were wearing any jewelry. That's sure to come out.

It's a bunch of parents following me around with a paper bag waiting to get the grandmas ring at his waiting for while we did give her that necklace. So he built a big hotel in 1888. And this that was that. It was called the Hotel Wesley.

Well, Wellesley, I'm sorry, I had a capacity of three hundred guests and then it burned to the ground in 1891 because like everything that back then just burned right to the ground.

In 1891, George Walker, who was the Boston owner of a lithograph company and a guy named Gustavo. Gordon, who is a scientist, formed the Walker Gordon Laboratories to develop processes for the prevention of contamination of milk. Oh, and to answer the call by enlightened Physicians for Better Babies milk formulas. How do you contaminate milk?

Well, they're in the process of dirty hands pulling on the teeth. Yeah, well, there's a what I don't know in the pasteurization process or whatever the hell they do. There's a there's yeah. You can contaminate it and make it. Yeah. You can have it. It has to be done correctly or else it'll be, it'll be some sort of bacterial grow in there. And then this was the time when they needed formula because not every baby like you know will take to the teeth.

Yeah. So it's the teeth.

He said that almost like a doctor, but stroking your beard so is almost perverted as well. The teeth look like you're a doctor that knows it's wrong to feel that way. But deep down inside you still feel like so not every kid takes to that. Yeah. So you have to. They were looking for good formulas.

I won't latch latch. That's the thing. So the plant for this was located in the Charles River Village section of Needham with another large facility in Jersey. And the scientific dairy production facilities of the dairy farm were widely advertised and and as a big modern advancement in the handling of milk products, they became like the standard of how you how you do milk on anybody else was like that dirty milk, like your shitty dirty milk.

Spilled milk. Yeah. Keep your, like, Krak milk out of here.

Once I heard that that was Possin Milk. That was the day that I was like, I'll never put that even in a cake. That's disgusting. Yeah. That's so gross. Yeah. It's all, it's just. Yeah. You're drinking. Look at a cow. Smell a cow. Do you want anything that comes from its body. No. Drain them out of lies around here. I mean it will just take it apart, eat every part of it.

Take the milk. It's yeah we don't care. But like I said before, people eat goat cheese. Have you ever smelled a goat is the most horrific thing in the world. You would eat nothing that came from its body if you smelled one. God, I love them. They see what I mean. That's what I mean. But it's whatever. So in the 1930s during the Depression, because there was factories here that were actually going to the population in this town grew by over 50 percent in the 30s because there was jobs here.

So people back then, I mean, we were at 30 percent unemployment and people problem. You went where jobs were a period that you didn't give a shit if you liked that. They're not speaking of whether you liked it there or not. Yeah, I have some reviews. All right. And most of them are positive. That's the thing. I have like eight hundred something reviews on the site. There was only a few that were negative. Most of them are very positive.

But of course, we'll talk to everybody. OK, we'll find out.

I found here's a two star, two star quote. Meet him is beautiful. You start out with that for a two star general.

You know what the fuck? So the rest of it must be awful if it's beautiful to start with. And it's only two stars. Most of the people, however, are not so great. OK, the things I have heard them say, I would never want to raise my kids around that very privileged, stereotypical ignorant. OK, these are this is a very wealthy area, by the way, like waiting to get into the real estate.

You're going to look down on people very, very wealthy. It's yeah, they're these are kids that go to private school and all that sort of. Yeah. They're just they think they're better than you. A lot of people. I would think they probably are better.

They're better than me for sure, but maybe not you people out there. We don't know what your situation is, but definitely better than us. We're trash, so we're pure trash. One star review here, OK? Needham used to be a quiet bedroom community off the beaten path. Now it's overrun with snobby, overprivileged, arrogant, entitled jerks. Oh, well, too many highly competitive parents who pushed their kids to the breaking point. No wonder the high school has a drug problem.

Well, that's because kids like drugs as they work.

I'm not saying to do drugs, but there's a reason why kids do you have to take your kids and be honest and go listen, drugs will solve your temporary problems. That's a fact. If you feel stress, drugs will take that away. But you have to then tell them about the other part and then the long term. Yeah, it's a process, really, but it's they'll take them because really it's difficult to say they don't work right now.

And it's also easier for them to take them because they can afford them. They can afford them, especially rich kids. And where's all if you're at school, you know where the drugs are because there's tons of kids around. You know, someone who has drugs. Everybody does it. Oh, God. Jesus was the easiest to find drugs in high school. Yeah, he was great. Yeah. There was times when I was in my early 20s or I was like, man, I wish I was in high school not to hang out just for the drugs.

Right.

And I turned twenty three and stopped talking to those kids have it. Yeah, not anymore.

So the kids want to check out go numb from the stress. The school district sweeps everything under the rug and wants you to keep your hand, your head in the sand. Overall not a. Nice, friendly community, definitely not welcoming to minorities as you kind of would be expected. Boston, by the way, historically, I'm not saying right now, but historically has not been known as the most tolerant town.

Not welcome. There was the you know, it's the Mississippi of the north. Back in the day. The Red Sox didn't have a black player till 1962. I think it was. I mean, that's like they were the last of the majors to have a black player. There's a reason they call it racist in New York. That's what I mean. Yeah, it was.

It's better now, I think, but oh, my gosh, it's a different thing now. One of the most welcoming places I've ever been. Now it's a very expensive and gentrified. So it's hard to have hate if everybody is the exactly the same. So like kind of what it is now.

And I guess when I'm there, I've only gone to a hotel and then to find Seafair and we go to perform for nice people come to see us. Now, none of them are like shouting racist fucking things at us for no reason.

So although if we didn't sell out the Wilbur, I don't know if they'd be nice to him or maybe the Wilbur people would be angry at us telling me to pack up my Guiney and go back to go get your wife and go back.

There ain't no watches over here. So for starters, here we go, four stars. These people really like it. Four stars. Needham is a very safe town with a great public school system. It is very expensive, but a great place to raise a family. As a kid growing up in Needham, you feel as if you are in a bubble. You're not exposed to many hardships that others in the world are going through. That's that explains it right there.

Bubble blinders and just bubble your own little little world. That's it. Here's one for stars. It maintains a small town feel while being connected to the greater Boston area. There's not much nearby in terms of, quote, fun, but it's a safe, welcoming community. The people living here and in the surrounding towns are quite obviously wealthy. There are extremely few houses for rent for sale in the area, especially that ones that are affordable.

Regardless, the people are out going, making it an easy making it easy to integrate into the community.

So there's a guy that makes decent money that wants a strip club. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So I'm going to open a nice strip club here that will serve a buffet lunch.

It's a good greens. I know what it is. I feel like that's going to draw a buffet lunch and it's the only not I do not want to eat lunch in the same room at someone's butthole is out. Keep your food away from keep my food away from her butthole.

Even the butthole is the entertainment. I still I don't want those things. Don't mix for me. Yeah, I don't know. People have a food and sex thing and I'm like now one and then the other. There's not those two things do not go together, right.

The people are like put food on each other right now. I don't know, like that's how you're all sticky right now. I got a hold on a minute. I'd have to have a running hose nearby. All vegan would be a very complex mechanism. Even the whipped cream. That's fucking weird.

Yeah, I like a spray bottle. Looks like a squeegee guy. Now that I'm off of you, let me grab the Lysol. Yeah, this is weird. This is weird and universalistic. This is gross. OK, I'll tell you what.

We're going to go ahead and throw you in the tub and we'll continue this in a while. You do that. I clearly am hungry. I'm going to go go fuck you do that and then see, we should have just done that separately. That was my point. Now you're all sticky.

It's that was the difference there for going to go and get you a this is disgusting.

So this town, it did shoot up in the 1930s and population the it's been pretty steady pretty much since about 1970. It's got like kind of the same exact amount of people. Yeah, it's not a lot of people come and go. People stay here, people like it here. It's one of those places there are thirty thousand four hundred twenty nine people up here right now. It's up ten percent since nineteen ninety seven last thirty years. It's crept up a little bit.

Female's a little bit more than males. It's kind of average median age is a little bit older. It's close to forty four which is it's wealthier. So people that have taken a little time and built some that's, that's what I mean.

You can't move here and buy a house when you're twenty seven. Probably it's more going to be when you're forty five people have kids a little bit later that sort of shit, 25 to 50 for the dominant age groups here though in general, way more married people than normal, which is wealthier towns usually like that.

Sixty four percent married here. So that's a lot. Sixty three point seven percent married overall. Currently married. Sixty three percent. So it's like they stay married, motherfucker, stay married and need them. Yeah, not a lot of even the divorce rate is low. It's like half the rest of the country is divorce rate. Is that a Catholic thing you think.

No, because the north northeast Catholics are like that's sort of like yeah, that's like I like Disneyland. It's one of those things like it's Christmas and Easter. And yeah, they're not real into it, put it that way. They're like, what's that? Oh that's that's a funny rule. Hilarious. And they're not real. Kennedy's a Catholic. One of them drove off the bridge.

There's not. Not a lot of fundamentalism, right? Not a lot of fundamentalism to the East Coast, Catholic, the Northeast, Catholic especially, it's just it's not about that. It's more of a cultural thing. So, yes, not a lot of single people with no children, none of that shit. It's pretty, pretty, very, you know, rich and stay together Oriente to stay together because, you know, we got a prenup. Yeah.

It's one of those deals. Because we don't. Because we don't. Or our families make us stay together.

Right. So it's our race of this town, 80, almost 85 percent white, two percent black, eight point two percent Asian, which is more than the average, which is one of the few times we've had that in a town and didn't expect it in Massachusetts, of all places. But OK, that's cool. Two point seven percent Hispanic, which is way below the average. So black and Hispanic, way, way, way under the national averages.

Their religion, though, it's sixty five percent religious, which is way over 50 percent. But like we're going to see fifty five percent of those people, other people overall are Catholic. So Catholics are, as we know, the Baptists of the North. And it's a very it's very loose. Yeah. Like I said, these are rich people. You're not telling them. No fucking priest that makes no money is going to tell them what to do.

Right. You know what I mean? These are Catholic people to the extent of they have a rosary tattoo somewhere and they show up dressed up on holidays so they could say hi to their friends and neighbors and shit like that and their families and things. But they're not going to let this fucking guy who drives a Nissan Sentra tell them what to do. Exactly. Not happening. I have a three million dollar house we're talking about.

What I'm doing is clearly the right way. Yeah, that's I mean, otherwise very low Presbyterian and a couple of Lutherans here and there. Not much.

Three percent Jewish, three percent high. But I've I've Nogi and I don't know, I'd say that's the highest yet.

I think it might be. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Not bad. Five point seven percent in Islam. We're not going to do politics.

Let's keep that on the bus today. No, that's not. Unemployment rate here is low compared to the rest of the country. These are a lot of white collar people and the median household income in America is fifty seven thousand six hundred fifty two dollars here in this town, one hundred forty one thousand six hundred ninety dollars.

Really, median household income with money. That's that's great. Yeah.

This is it's three times the white collar jobs as normal in their job thing. It's close to Boston. It's these are educated. Yeah. You know, Boston is kind of one of the more college heavy cities, obviously, MIT and and Harvard. And it's a pretty smart town. It's a smart town when it comes to shit like that. So white collar type of things and technical things. And that's where they are. Cost of living in this town will be one hundred as regular average.

Here it is. Two hundred and two. So twice the average twice.

But that's nothing because everything else, health care, groceries, all that's normal. The expensive thing is housing. Housing is a 404 out of a hundred. That's the highest ever. That's the highest median home cost. Jimmy. Oh, my gosh. Hold on to your balls here, big guy. Three nine hundred thirty three thousand one hundred dollars.

Median median. Holy shit. Median million. That's just your average house. Median fuck a million dollars. Ten percent of the houses are under half a million dollars here. Ten percent are worth that.

It is just it's an oh money by wealthy town. And if you can afford it, we have for you. Good for you. We need a Massachusetts real estate report.

Your average two bedroom rental here, two bedroom rental, twenty two hundred forty five dollars, which is like right now just under Manhattan price. I was just going to say that's Midtown Price. That's like crazy post covid. That's Midtown. That's what that's what took place. Costs of Manhattan, San Francisco. Oh yeah. That's now that's wild.

Three bedroom, one bath, one thousand eighty square feet of tiny little house. Not great fucked up shingled exterior. It's all broken and fucked up. Four hundred fifty nine thousand dollars for this house. Google's not here. No doubt you have got to really put some work on that thing to where ad where's Facebook's headquarters?

That's what the fuck. Three bedroom, two bath. Eighteen hundred thirty six square foot. Nice clean. Nothing crazy, just a nice clean family house. Very blue. It's a blue house.

Nine hundred forty nine thousand dollars. That for just your average house. Eighteen hundred square feet.

That's what I mean. That's, that's insane. A million dollars, five bedroom, six bath tee ball for everybody home. Four thousand five hundred twenty three square feet. Spread out a bit. Very nice place.

Two point one million dollars. This is you live here.

If you're like if you play for the Patriots. Right. And you're like in your eighth season and you have a wife and two little kids and you and they go well, for seven seasons, that's I mean, they go to like a nice guy, you know, one of those private preschools. It costs a shitload of money. And I live out there and dry. Your wife drives a Range Rover around, has it too little. Yeah. And you, like do like Instagram posts of you guys and you like some, like, muscle building powders of some kind together that you're like husband wife business.

If that's not where you live, stay the fuck out of here.

If you're not like Rob Gronkowski, probably go away. I know he's in Tampa now, but still things to do here. Oh, my. The fifth annual list is last year, the fifth annual Winter Arts Festival. They just started this. Oh, boy.

That's a local artist. Display and sell their crafts. Free admission.

Well, no one's going to pay to buy local art, so you're probably going to have to go free. You know, I mean, not to be insulting, but you got to draw people in there.

And also, if you're doing art and you want to make money at it, you got to set a price and free. And that's that's the thing. Yeah. Yeah. You're devaluing other people, you fucking jerks. What do you feel about it. Right. Whatever you feel is right is not the price now. Yeah. Although you got to have some pride. And what do we do. Give you a free show and say if you'd like to donate on patriots, go ahead and cry with sports.

So I figured I am but we get bonus I that they don't go. Here's a bonus Art. Yeah. I made you this and then here are some earrings. That doesn't happen. That's all we do. Soon as best friends gives you some cash to draw your fuck and you can go with name your price. Thank you. So then set a fucking price at a price. So you're driving down everybody else's art. Yeah. Live music by local band jam sandwich boy oh boy.

And Indian classical dance there and sounds great. Explore a variety of crafts created by over thirty local artists including ceramics woodwork on board already New Year's Needham. Here's one. This is the next one. And this is, this was for New Year's Eve last year. A night of a day and night of music, dance and laughter.

OK, and ah the laughter comes from Jim Ho, John Stetson who mentalist and comedian. Here he is.

Jimmy that guy. All right. Yeah. Yeah. Real, real funny guy.

Some people thought there were audience plants. Come find out for yourself. It says John steps and slides people steps inside people's heads. He knows what you're thinking. Don't believe it. Well, he already knew that, you asshole. You fucking asshole. John has performed for three U.S. presidents, the king of Sweden, the royal family of Monaco, and has appeared on several major television networks. I never would say this, but I wish he would perform for like Kim Kim Jong un.

So we'd have him executed because I fucking hate hypnotised mentally. Not if you do that, but if you were a comedian, mentally, a comedian hypnotist, you can go fuck yourself. I hate that shit so much.

He's done great because he has a mouthful of venire. Smell those Vanier's suit and tie full of shit.

That's bullshit to the suit and tie and like, fucking fuck. You look like you're selling me a fake product, you fucking jerk. It looks like he's trying to sell me some sort of like a pillow, a fluffy or pillow or some sort of like better hearing aid, you know what I mean? I'm not sure which Baptist Church music the jazz Punisher's going to punish you, Ajaz. Yeah, I make that.

Isn't all that punishment really.

This band. They are. You should see them there. No, they're going to punish you hard. What is this, the eleven piece band Soul City.

OK, it's got that ac some saxophones in there. The Tom Nutile big band. Um yeah there's that. And then Seth. Liar, who's a singer songwriter. His Grammy nominated guy, I don't know, for what he didn't win. Sort of folk shit. Maybe he's like by himself with an acoustic guitar. So I'm assuming a folk a folk category, possibly, like beaten by Steve Martin and a banjo making it through.

It's a God damn it. I do not lose again. All I do is my whole life is my life and soul. He's like, I'm going to fuck around in a banjo and be better than most cocksucker crime rate in this town.

What we're worried about here, property crime is less than half the national average. Very, very they don't steal shit leadership. We got our own. Exactly. Got our own shit.

Don't need yours. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime, about one third, the national average. That's safe. Really safe. That's an extremely, extremely safe. I mean, it is one of these towns where if you call the cops are there and you don't even need a phone, you can just yell out the window and someone will show up because it's just like we're just waiting for you.

Yeah, yeah. I'm sure the taxes are ridiculous high for this level of everything but safety.

That said, let's talk about a brutal, horrible murder.

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That we have to choose to forget that they choose to forget all about and Jimmy, this murder, when I tell you this story you like, they're the only person I'm telling.

When we tell you everyone out there collectively this story, you're going to say No. One, how have I never heard this fucking story before? How have I never heard of this person? What else has this person done? Has this is his DNA constantly pulsing through databases like every day because they it should be what the fuck is going on in this world? OK, just brace yourselves for this, OK?

You've never tried to shout it to us, but we couldn't hear it over all the fuckin jazz in this town, possibly as we were being punished with it.

That's why it was a punishing amount of jazz. And then they were, you know, but The Mentalist should have been able to know what we were thinking.

Yeah. Why didn't you know Mr. Mentalists, man? Yeah, that's he says it knows what you're thinking.

Don't believe him. He already knew that. Well, I don't believe you. You should know who killed who.

Now, this person, the closest thing I can like in this whole scenario to is this is another Ted Bundy, this person. And it's very much when you hear the story, you're going to go with this guy, Ted Bundy, like, is he his brother or something?

And what he does and the whole deal, you got to go. This isn't the first time this happened. Like just as far as profiling goes, that there's a progression of the way people do things. And generally, it's not as if people have fantasies and they're not. They usually are. When they murder people, they act them out kind of progressively as they go. Yeah. And if they get to like ten people, it'll be like full fledged.

They'll have them all set up and they'll fucking jizz over here. And I got a whole thing going on. You're brazen enough to break into a sorority house. Yes. And murder of several. Yeah, that's what I mean. But like your first time, you might just, you know, kill someone very convenient and hide them somewhere deep in the woods and do some shit like that. And then it gets more brazen as you go. So it's an interesting thing.

Well, let's talk about some people. Let's start out with a young guy here. We'll start out nineteen eighty seven, OK? We'll go back in time to nineteen eighty seven.

We're going to jump around a little bit from there, but that's going to be our base of operations here. You need them. Yeah, we're going to like like no predator. Yeah. We're going to come in off the half the chopper lands right here. Nineteen eighty seven in the Rice fan. Right. And Predator because that's made in 1987. Except instead of the rice paddies, we are going to be in Massachusetts. Yeah. Here let's talk about Dennis Jason Belle, Dottie VLDL, be B.L., Dotti, Talion.

He's got a name that you would mispronounce horribly. Yeah. At the end of the day. Yeah. Bell did bell double duty bell dot bell dot.

I get it. God damn it. Shit. Can I go bell daddy. Thank you. And I don't even see your list. So in nineteen eighty seven he's thirty two years old. He is born. I was born in Boston on June 16th 1955. Yeah. So like I said, thirty two. His parents are Charles J. Bell, Dottie and Tina Belle. Dottie his father is, is like a science guy. Oh. Like his father has a science degree from college and things like that.

His family is kind of an educated family. They're smart people. So it's not there's no there's no trashiness going on here. As far as, you know, our last few stories, the they're living in a fucking travel trailer last time with no floors rotting out shit everywhere. None of this. This is a very baldie, the science guy. Yeah, this is a different thing. This is everybody's very on the up and up here and very, you know, school orientated and very much into education.

So much so that Jassa are dentists. I'm sorry, Dennis. Daddy, he earns a Bachelor of Science from Boston University in 1977 from South Boston University. He's a good school too. So be is great. He's that's fantastic. Which also means his parents shelled out a few bucks for that. Right. That's expensive. So they do well as well. You can see what I mean, how this town operates. He also goes to Framingham State College as well in nineteen seventy eight.

He earns a degree from there as well. No, if it's a specialty, some kind of specialty state, sounds like it's probably a special technical thing. He's into computers. Oh, so night in the late seventies, people who are into computers, that was a very specialized thing, that very niche. So there was there wasn't a program in every school for that.

There just wasn't some had one and it was the size of their library. That's what I mean. Any kind of computer was so expensive to do that sort of thing. And and they would be it was also experimental back then. And this is like when people figured out how to start, like, hacking and shit like that. So this is Wild West of computer time. So there might have been some computer program at Framingham State College that was specific that he wanted to get with that.

He didn't they didn't have somewhere else. OK, so that's why he was there.

He's into he has interests. He's into skiing, fishing. He likes tennis. Yeah, shit like that. He likes going to auto races as well. He's. Well, that's fascinating. Yeah, it's interesting. Rich douche bag stuff. And then also not like dirt track, though. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. NASCAR. I like to think it's like NASCAR. It's probably like European. Yeah, like European. Street racing is an expensive sports cars, right.

Yeah. Probably more than likely expensive. He doesn't like Dale Earnhardt or Richard Petty.

I don't see that in him at all now. No, absolutely not. He he gets jobs right away too. He had jobs while he was in school working with, like software firms and shit his back then, too. There was not a lot of people that knew how to program anything, just wasn't a lot of people that existed. So if you were in school, you'd also have a job on the side. They'd be recruiting anybody who knew how to program to work places because they were just looking for people constantly, especially people, to work on security and they were building infrastructure.

This is when companies would start to late 70s when they were building their computer systems because they never had they did everything on paper before that. And they'd say, oh, shit, we need to convert everything to computer. And they'd have to hire on a firm, a consulting firm to come in. And for a giant fee, they'd set up some giant bullshit. And that's what this guy did as a kid. So he where he was an analyst with Soft Tech Inc.

in Waltham, Massachusetts, from seventy six to seventy nine. He was also a software engineer for soft tech as well. During that same period, he was doing multiple things. This is while he was, you know, going to school, getting specialized degrees. He was a systems engineer for IBM. Oh. Which is. Yeah, pretty good. I mean, that's my dad worked there for a long time as engineer. Yeah. The systems engineer for IBM in Sudbury in seventy eight and seventy nine.

So he's doing very well for himself. Also then worked for Honeywell after that in seventy nine and eighty after he went from IBM he got so they recruit's I mean I'm sure Honeywell recruited him away from IBM. Yeah. That's what they would do. So he always made very good money. Yeah.

These guys made a shitload of money and when you, if you're making great money and you leave and go somewhere else, it's because you're going to make more. Yeah.

Because they were they recruited you for their thing so that you've got to pay somebody to leave. That's kind of what's going on here and there. He's in demand and he's got a he's on the cutting edge of a new thing. So, I mean, it's just a lot of money for him. So he's doing so well, so well. In nineteen eighty two. He's in the Boston Globe, you know, the major newspaper of Boston. And here is the article.

It is titled Fashionable Men of Boston. Hop to Playboy's Photo Call. OK, OK.

And here he is right there. Oh, that's him. I'll show you. There's this picture. Look at him. And that's a hell of a hell of a suit. He's got the pinstripe. I mean, he is mister like nineteen eighty and he's flocking to Playboy Man there he is looking very dapper. Yeah. Yeah. Well Playboy apparently has a thing going on. They advertised suggesting any Boston male who thought himself well dressed might possibly want to call the Meridian Hotel to talk to Playboy magazine photographers about the possibility of appearing in a future issue of the new Playboy fashion guide thing, that same ad on Craigslist.

Yes, exactly. This would now get you, like, jerked off. I'm just half done by a Turkish man who's just waiting there in looking to bathroom.

Toilet? Oh, probably.

I mean, whatever they pay extra for is between the two of you, honestly. But, I mean, he's at least going to jerk off on you. Fascinating. So, yeah, this is a playboy for the well dressed men of certain cities is what they were doing. The response there, they it says for free. Hundred dollar bills call this number.

That was so seventies. That's hilarious. So they did one called the men of Dallas in the spring summer issue of eighty.

And that it's this is from the article Boston Globe included, quote, eight super hunks, complete with Texas Spurs and Stetson's, and appeared in color centerfolds, as it were, but with clothes on because it's not in a Playgirl. Right.

Because it's a magazine for dudes. And when we read that. Yeah, I want to see you and your Chalong. That's the Boston you're going. I'd love to see what suits are good this year. If you're like, you know, some, like, fucking lawyers sitting there like, oh, God, I don't want can you pull your zipper up so I can get a good look at that suit?

Jesus Christ. I came here for Miss September and I got George from Boston. Jesus, I'm down. My, my, my. So Dennis Belle. Belle Daddy, though, is in this article as he's the picture is only a picture of one guy in the article and it's him. He's the only guy, the only guy pictured here that they show. Yeah. He's the picture of here's a here's a local man, Dennis Baldie, dapper, dressed in his fucking like fancy pen in his hand even here.

And it says under here that he's a whereases. Dennis Daddy, international marketing consulting agent. From Needham, shook hands all around and explained he was applying because, quote, A girl I know saw the ad and said I should apply because I am smooth.

She read this and said, I know a guy. I know a guy.

By this time, they were seeing a number of other men who had not made appointments but were wandering in to try their luck. And Dennis, I guess he made like a final round of whatever. I think he made the final cut, but he got pretty close. He made the final round. So he's got he's very charming. Women like him. He likes going he likes hanging around schools and shit like that, like going to school. And also, you know, he's not a nerd, but he does.

He's in a nerdy shit, but he's not a nerd of that time. He does social shit. He's likes to talk to the ladies. Also, as we start a Ted Bundy parallel, he is very and this is completely non-political, just a parallel to Bundy. He's very much into Republican politics as well. Like as say like, you know, kind of junior, junior Republican type of deal, just like Ted Bundy was into that sort of thing.

So he's got just a similar similar vibe. When you see him in the suit, you go, yeah, it's the same fucking thing. So it's the same deal. So he's an international marketing analyst for Prime Computer in Natick, Massachusetts, from 1980 to 1986. So that's when he's international market marketing analyst, not an ugly man either. Fairly handsome, fairly handsome, well-dressed, intelligent, lots of hair, lots of hair, good sense of humor.

Everybody says he's got you know, he's got a lot going for him. This guy. Women like him a lot. He's always known to have many beautiful women on his arm, you know, that sort of thing.

Like so well known that when they see that Playboy is looking for a certain type, they think that's a positive thing. They go, I know that guy Amsden. His name is Dennis and you're going to love him.

So that's the type of cat he is. And he also he does on the side. He does photography as well, which for some reason and we all need photographers and we know photographers that are nice people and we have great people for some reason, there is definitely a higher percentage of creeps that are into photography. I don't know, not that all of them are because we know ones that aren't, but it's because they got to a fucking there's some creep factor to it.

I don't know what the reliving of a fantasy requires.

A visual memory. Yeah. And usually to do that, you got to have a picture of it. Yeah. But there's something about someone who just like I'm going to take this and put it in a dark room. Right. You know what I mean.

Like about guys who like physically developed their own pictures and shit like just there's some I don't know what it is. It's a creepy thing.

Anybody that I ever knew that worked at a photo booth back when that was a thing, fucking weird, fucking creepy, super.

And then like from like the nineties, you got the Robin Williams movie where he was a creepy, crazy Joe Davola with fucking the pictures of Elaine develop. It all involve the guy from fucking American Beauty. There you go. There's another creepy bloodsucker. Yeah, creepy, creepy. Everybody that fucks with photos of the creepy. I don't know why it is sorry. Everybody that fucks with photos, that is a creep. But every creep fucks with a creep.

Fucks with us. Yeah, it's every. Yeah, yeah. You got it right there. And it's oh it's the guy still you don't see creepy women doing that.

Girls that do it just. Yeah. They have shit all over their house you know. I mean like pictures that they took you know. Oh that's really nice. You're like I took that in Arizona. Well yeah.

It's like a flower, not a dismembered head. No, it's a picture of a desert. A guy would be like something about and you cut its head off. It's just it's just beautiful, you know, like some weird, crazy, creepy shit like that.

So nineteen eighty six, he starts his own computer firm.

That's when he branches away from prime computer and he says, I'm going to start my own consulting firm and he makes good money here doing this. He is actually whereas he's named on the the who's who list by Marky magazine. I don't know what that is but some magazine that dealt with Boston, he's a hotel. He's one of the who's who is a noteworthy computer company executive in nineteen eighty seven.

So we're talking about thirty two years old. I'm saying like you're going to but this is wonderful. Wait till I tell you something else he does. You're going to, you're going to like this guy. OK, President of S. S s. S Select Corporation here. That's the, that's his computer corporation. And it's August twenty fifth nineteen eighty six. I found the corporate registry for it. Yeah. So that's exactly when it was filed for.

That's when he started it. His company is the SS, it's the S Select Corporation. No, no. And it's capital s selected. It's not Espace select. It's S select. Yeah. Oh it's ss elect is it. It's like so Nazi computer. Right. This is Tarryl. Don't think he meant that but it doesn't look right. Get out of his website today would be ss dot com. It'd be ss. Yeah that's that's a lexicon that would be terrible.

Awful. Yeah, so Blackstock is not good. Yeah, now that's bad. So as I select, which is the new freak FARC, the new license plate SSL Act, it's not that select. No, it's select. So he he's good friends during the last few years here with a guy named Gary Hart Tacitus. Ah ha tatis heartattack this hesus. That's hard to say. Our taxes are ATSIC. Why didn't he did our taxes. I can shorten it to heart.

I would have been somewhere else. It's horror. It's well it's Horwitz's. It's all heart martz's.

So it's a HRR, a ti ss it's horseraces so it's a tough name. People are going to mispronounce that a lot and it's hideous and it's, it's just not easy. It's not enough. Full roll off the tongue kind of name. It's hard, but Gary's a great guy from what we understand. Gary's a really nice guy. Everybody likes Gary. Yeah. Nobody ever has a bad word to say about Gary from what I get here now, Dennis, then he's he starts the company and for the first few months, he's just doing everything on his own and then he needs an employee.

After a while, he needs a another programmer, somebody to do kind of clerical stuff to and keep him organized and getting hired. Yeah, he's the president. He needs a vice president as a way he puts it. But so he finds the perfect person. And Gary's wife. Oh, Gary is married to a young woman who's twenty two years old, Eugenia Conti Horwitz's. She is close by. Gina, she is really tiny, five foot tall, hundred pounds.

So little he or she is right here. Yeah. Oh, I'll get her super pretty girl. Very pretty.

Objectively you'd go anybody would see her and go, oh what a pretty girl. I mean she's just pretty pretty young lady there to to sound like an old newscaster.

Very pretty young lady China.

So I don't want to sexualize the fucking person from thirty years ago, but, you know, whatever. So nice looking, nice looking lady. Anyway, she's married to Gary, she's originally from Framingham, so she should be able to take care of herself at least.

Anyway, it's tough broads over there in Framingham, but she lives in Sudbury with Gary and he's nice young, married couple, happy. They don't have any kids yet, but maybe someday sort of thing. So you never know. She is Dennis's assistant and the company VP all around. Second in command keeps the place rolling while Dennis kind of tries to drum up business and does his thing. And it helps it helps his business. It becomes more successful, more successful, starts to get a little weird after a while.

Some people that Dennis knows will say that Dennis started telling them that he and Gino were actually hooking up.

Oh, they didn't know if it was true. Nobody ever saw any proof of it. And everybody that knew everybody said that her and Gary seem to be very happy together, like newly. They were just married recently. They're not like, oh, Dennis, you're a dick. Shut up. It's not like they've been married for twenty years. And you're like, wow, maybe it's maybe the spark is gone or something. They have an agreement like they're newlyweds.

Everybody said they're very much into each other. So they thought it was odd. But it's, you know, it's the eighties and who the hell those people are.

People have some free fucking.

But if you're going to do it, you know, shut your goddamn mouth. But now he said, yeah, he's braggin. He said they and they didn't. They thought it was weird, too, because they're like she and Gary seem very happy and and Dennis and Gary are best friends. This is just a really weird affair for him to have, if that's true. So much so that they didn't really believe it. They thought maybe that Gary was just kind of talking because he had a pretty young girl around and want people to think he wasn't banging her.

You know what I mean? Tanaiste it. Dennis, I'm sorry. Dennis had a pretty young girl around. He didn't want people to think, oh, yeah, you know, Dennis can't close the deal over there. Can okay. What the fuck man thought you were Mr. Playboy. And what's wrong with you? That's how kind of people started taking. And it was like their, you know, whatever. Why is that?

That with money and power, it's got to come with like I can fuck anything I want to. What is that? I don't know. It's a fucking absurd. It's it all it's all ego. I suppose all all of your ego swells evenly. I feel like any part of it that's inflated, it brings other you know, it's like the rising tide lifts all boats. Yeah. The rising ego floats all my fucking weirdness. It floats all of your disgusting.

Maybe maybe it's you're right. It's it's ego because as a rising ego floats all cocks is the guy that hates himself. I don't if I if I was rich, I don't want that to come with any woman will fuck. I don't want that. No, not at all. And I don't want and I don't want people to be like, why are you so rich and powerful. You can't fuck everything. Kesari ego suck.

So we would assume that someone only liked us for our money, whereas rich guys have big egos. Assume that the money doesn't matter. Seriously. Yeah. You'll find these robots that belowdecks. Show her on the yacht. It's so fascinating to watch people on a fucking yacht because they're they're just so they think like the people, they're they're almost like if you're on the out in the ocean, you don't exist anymore. And the people that are serving you are like robot people whose memories will be wiped out at the end of the trip.

So you can act like fucking animals when we get off this boat.

Will Smith going to flashy thing, it's all. Yeah. And that's and it's constantly you see, like fifty three year old guys with, like a big gut and a hairy back and bald and their personalities are fucking repulsive. International water laws. Yeah. But they're not funny. They're not like charming, they're not really nice but they're real fucking rich. That's what it is. And they have like twenty three year old women with them who don't talk to them at all.

And the guys literally don't think it's because of the money. They think that they're like handsome or they're charming or that's what it is. I could live in a trailer and pull this broad down. It's not that we're on a hundred and fifty foot. Forty million dollar yacht. Yeah, it's my dick. It's me and this fat belly that this dick hides under, that would be like the twenty two year old woman thinking, I'm sure I'm only here because of my personality.

I'm really funny and that's why I'm here. Like everyone should know why you're here. You're here because you're hot. You're, you're here because you're gross. And the two fucking reasons why we're all gathered, you're here because the hot guy she's into can't even afford is Civica. That's why she's here. When you get back on land, she will bang him again for sure.

She really likes him.

It's true, though, that's everybody should know what they're what. Just have some selfishness squareness. Be honest with looking in the mirror and go. That's what you are. Yes, exactly. Go say this. She's married. She's happy. Yeah. Not me. So alone she goes on to tell people that that she and her husband Gary were having marital problems at that point and telling people that they had been, you know, together and shit like that and that they've been having an ongoing sexual affair while she's at work with him and all this type of shit.

He runs his business, by the way, out of his parents home that he lives in. It's a big home. Yeah, I'll show you the picture of it.

And he takes like he has the whole upstairs. It's like a without a wing. He's got a wing and he runs the business out of there.

OK, so in October of nineteen eighty seven, he Dennis this that is participates with the U.S. government, with the US, with a US Postal inspector named John Dunne in taking down a Copenhagen based child pornography ring. Oh so he does a participates in the sting operation to get this guy arrested with the postmaster here. So awesome. It's kind of cool. Or a postal inspector, one of the top postal inspectors, he has federal authorities enlist him to fly to Copenhagen as part of this big sting operation.

There's this giant, I guess, producer of. Danish producer of kiddie porn yeuk fucking grosses people in the world, obviously not Danish, he's Danish.

This guy I'm saying not the Danish being Grosz's PPK. You fucking Danish.

Like we have any opinion on the Danes. I just want to make sure I like. What's it like if someone says that we go we don't even know what that is. We don't even know a country that's from. What are you talking about? We have no opinion on them whatsoever. Quick, Jimmy, what country Danish people come from? Exactly right. And lazed Fazli. That's exactly right. Dadeland know, sort of saying, no, we have no opinion on the Danes in Copenhagen.

There you go. I just said that. I said that.

You got it. Yeah. That's a fucking amazing.

I pulled it out. That's perfect. So unbelievable. This is October eighty seven. So the business has been open for about a year. So they send Bell over to Denmark to purchase child pornography tapes from Jorgen Jensen or Jorgen Jensen. We'll call him. I'm sure it's Jorgen Jensen. So Jorgen Jensen is his name, which sounds like a made up Danish guy, doesn't it? I don't know. Jorgen Bargain Jegan Bargain Jensen. I fucking know his name is him in the Swedish chef and everybody outside of that.

Right. So it's basically flies him there to have him make these purchases and also kind of get in with this guy because he's a smooth talker and tell him that he's got more customers back in the States that would really love to hook up with him, get a bunch of these tapes and to be able to broker that deal. So then then that deal will be made by a federal agent who will then go there, make the deal themselves and have the end and bust this guy.

That's that's the fucking plan here for him. Absolutely gross. But, yeah, people like this need to be pro work. Yeah, this is this is crazy shit need to be taken down. So he does that the second purchaser will be done, the postal inspector himself, who, you know, ultimately does all this shit. Jensen ends up being arrested in the months before all this undercover sting operation.

The leads will lead to basically busting Jensen for smuggling two hundred and eighty hours of child pornography tapes into the country. That's what ends and it ends up being to the to Belle daddy. And then there's more here for the postal inspector in the sting. Jensen sold done the postal inspector some tapes for fifteen thousand dollars in nineteen eighty seven. Right. A lot of money. That's I mean eighty hours. This is. Well we'll find out, honey, believing that this guy was he thought Jensen thought that Dunn was a US distributor.

He thought he was like blockbuster kiddie porn US version literally. He thought he was like, oh, you're going to put it out on the streets. Good for you. You know, what's your distribution plan? Right. He got posters, disgusting, Paramount Pictures. This is the grossest shit in the world. These people are hideous. So they made further arrangements after this original sale to four done to procure about three hundred magazines and two hundred eighty hours more of videotape.

So we're talking mondo amounts of this shit.

Any amount is a shitload of disgustingness of it. This is. Oh yeah. Got magazines with titles and shit like not like a fucking you know, some like pulpy with chunks of wood in it, like underground stapled together by hand and a printing press. This is somebody put a glossy out man. Christ, it's gross. It's fucking disgusting.

Didn't know they had that. No. Oh it's gross man.

So Jensen agreed after the first sale. He's very comfortable now because he's made a sale to Bell and then he made a sale to Don. And so he's comfortable with the whole arrangement. Jensen agrees to fly to Boston to seal the last deal with Don. Yeah.

Where at that point, obviously, federal agents are going to get him that? Yeah, I would say so. It hopes and they fucking deal here. They get that. US attorney Susan Veha said it was, quote, the largest case in terms of quantity of videos in the history of US child pornography cases at the time, really the biggest bust in the history. Three hundred hours. That's the most they got so far in one place. Yeah.

Get back to work via because back then, think about it. To make a video was a big thing and it was awkward to organize a professional thing, not just some underground eight millimeter tape being passed around between people like actual produced magazines and videos that they were selling. He's like, that's that's disgusting. So you you want to fucking nip that right in the bud? They said. All but six hours of the videotapes were reprints from eight millimeter movies made in the seventies.

It was a gross shit like that, the newly made pornography depicted girls age from ages four to 10, possibly related with each other and engaged in sexual acts. Fucking disgusting. Oh, but Bill Doddy helped them bust this big ring. So you can say it. He's my kind of hero. There you go. That's my. Give me your kind of guy. He's great.

OK, how do you get involved in this? You might wonder. That's a you know, I was wondering how the fuck do you even. Well mean he's not your kind of guy that. Yeah. Federal investigators discovered postcards Bildad he had received from JPMorgan, who at the time before they knew they believed to be a major exporter of child pornography. Baldy's cooperation was solicited after charges of illegal receipt of pornography against him were dropped.

In return, he had his ratting on the dealer. Oh, my God. He had magazines, Jimmy. Oh, my God. There's this. They have names like I'm not reading the police and discussing names. Are they puns and shit like that or. No, no, no.

Discussants we fuck his thirty two page magazine he had and he had other things. Do you have like a I produced thirty two page. I'm so uncomfortable of that.

Or thirty of the worst shit ever. Yeah. The worst shit ever. And one time I assume they're saying I want to go on my little Lolita color special twelve.

It's enough. That's disgusting. That's why I'm saying your new age. That's what I mean. This is horrific and everybody out there is wincing right now. I am how I'm swinging in my chair. I'm not comfortable. I'm with you guys. I'm fucking horrified by this shit.

And I know, Jimmy, obviously, from your past experiences, this is something that you want to.

Yeah. So anyway, so they believed that, you know, this guy knew who he was getting the porn from, so that's why they did it. They busted him at his home there and they said that he didn't have an alarming amount of porn, but he had like, you know, kiddie porn. But he had enough to bust and hold them from, you know, try to get thirty two pages. That's what I mean. So they were like more than I got.

It was enough to be able to use him for their. Sure. And also to I don't care if it's anything that shit grows and it's a start and. No, no, no, no, we're not having that shit. So everybody is shocked when this happens. He he denies the whole thing to his friends and family. He'll deny the whole thing and be like, look, they dropped the charges. It was a mistake. I help them.

I'm a hero. This is crazy.

And they believe it because they believe it because he's known as like this handsome Playboy guy. They're like, yeah, he likes adult women. He's always got a bunch of adult women. He's got a nice suit on. And he's, you know, women like him. And this makes no sense. Like this is this is some crazy FBI government bullshit setup is what this is. That's what everybody was saying, literally. That is just blindness.

Yeah, that's shocking. It's just no one told me. I heard that you got a thirty two page magazine at home and were arrested for it. And then I say, no, no, James, I didn't have it. They dropped the charges obviously I didn't have I helped him get the big guy. He had all kinds of shit. You be like how the fuck, how did you know where to get exactly what they were? They should have said they said that.

He said that they just you know, they made him make the contacts. He's a good talker. He's international marketing guy. Yeah. He knows how to market to everybody from your highest level corporate executives at IBM or Honeywell all the way to kiddie porn manufacturers in in Dane land, either one and wherever they make the best chewing tobacco in the world. That's all it is.

So they said his neighbors said they always remembered him as kind of an enigmatic guy because he was like in the computers and that sort of thing. But he was also like an outgoing Playboy types. They didn't understand. There's two sides of him were very much at odds at the time. And they said that, you know, he didn't really bother anybody. They said he seemed like a he's like a spoiled kid. His parents sent him to nice schools and bought him, you know, it's a good car for his 16th birthday shit like that.

Spoiled suburbs, rich kid. They said he spent hours taking care of his Jeep Laredo and his Jeep, that he would polish and fix shit on and put new tires and wheels on. He's one of those guys. And they said that he was kind of a loner, but but socially outgoing. But he was just into computers and stuff and nobody else was really into that. So you're kind of alone based on that. But they said he always wanted to be like a big shot.

He always wanted to start a company, and he always wanted to like, you know, be successful. And at a young age, he had suits on and he was doing that sort of thing. And Alex Keaton type that family ties. Yeah. You know, briefcase to school. Ted Bundy type. Yeah. That sort of thing. So they said that everybody they went to school with him said that the most one person said the most outstanding recollection of him is that they have no recollection of all.

I really.

They said he's just kind of quiet, didn't really have a woman named Donna Resume, who is a neighbor and a high school classmate, said, I don't really have any memory of him. He was always kind of a loner in 20 odd years. I spoke to him maybe three times.

So that's like, oh, yeah, that fucking guy.

That guy, I know him. I mean, I don't know. Yeah, yeah. I think he I saw him get coffee once.

I don't even remember that. So you mentioned it. Yeah. He think he drives a brown car, right.

I don't know. Look straight up nice.

It's like a jeep with there's no doors those things. You know what I mean. In the winter it has doors when the summer is like no doors and bigger tires and stuff. You know, I'm talking about you could fall out of it. Daisy Duke drives one. It's nineteen eighty. I'm trying to relate it to the Laredo's like a derrick right now. I just, I wanted to they took the doors off that fucking. That's like an asshole.

That's yeah. He was like a real asshole. It look like they fell off of that right now. Look like he took a off the ship voluntarily.

So August 2nd, nineteen eighty eight comes around and you know, like we said, through the years gone by now, since the whole kiddie porn issue when it's died down and everybody kind of nothing else has happened. So they more or less believe him. And everybody thinks, I guess the guy's a hero, you know what I mean? I guess he's a normal, decent guy. He's never shown any other weirdness or never, you know, gets in trouble or had any other abberation.

He's just a successful computer guy that women like. Yeah. So, OK, fine. August 2nd comes around and like I said, nineteen eighty eight. It's a very hot day. Hot, humid summer ne day one of those extra stuffy days in the northeast. And Gina comes to work early that day to do some bookwork and some bookkeeping work, some computer shit, some general shit that she has to get done that morning. This is the house, by the way, right here.

And I'll post a picture on social media. That's a beautiful place to live and grow. Big, beautiful yard. You know, the path leads up to a nice big house. Norma's mature trees. Yeah, beautiful home back home. House is white. Yeah, it's gorgeous. It's a big like you can tell it's like a big. I looked it up. Do I have the stats of it. But it's a big like twenty six hundred square foot and like multiple levels and schoolhouse.

It's a cool, it's a cool house. So there's that now that's where she, she's working on the top floor I believe it's over in the over here, the right side of the picture in that wing up on the top floor. So at two thirteen pm there's a nine one one call. Oh OK. It is from Dennis and he calls nine one one. It's the Needham Police Department and he calls to report that a woman's body is on his bathroom floor in his home and he thinks she might have been murdered.

So he's like, you got to come to my house right now. I came home. You know, this is two thirteen p.m. He said, I just got back from running errands. I left at eleven o'clock in the morning, came back just now, and she's on my floor in the bathroom. So fuck over to the house, please. And I'll get here now, as anybody would with a, you know, a body in your house that wasn't there when he left.

And is it a random woman or did he say who would.

He didn't say who it was at the time. He just said there's a woman and she's looks to be murdered. So it was him that called the police. He says, as a matter of fact, quote, She's on the bathroom floor. There's a lot of blood. I think she's been murdered. OK, so that's, you know. Yeah, he's an investigator. Yeah.

And that's but that's these are actually like when they when they analyze people's nine one one calls, this is a you know, this they said he sounded very in a very excited state, appeared to be crying and kind of hyperventilating, having a thing flustered on the bathroom floor. There's a lot of blood. I think she's been murdered, that kind of thing. So it's very much kind of in line with how it goes in line with your state of mind at the time.

It's not like, yes, there is email. Hi, how are you? Yeah, good. Good. I found a female human. Don't believe she's breathing a lot of blood, I would assume murdered on my bathroom floor. If you could come by and take a look.

Thanks. Yeah, thanks. Appreciate it. Sarah, if you could pick up a large pepperoni half sausage on the way over as well. I'm a little peckish. Thank you.

Also, I am a hero. I stopped a child porn ring.

Did I mention I took down a Danish porn distributor and he was pretty gross.

So, yeah, the the sergeant on the other end said, quote, Mr. Baldy was in a very excited state and was crying uncontrollably. The police arrived in under two minutes. Wow. That's how fucking safe this town is. Should you call the cops and say dead body in like ninety seconds, a car or a car will pull up, you know, fast.

That is is awesome. That's. Amazing fast like drive down the street, yeah, count to 90. Yeah, that's how close the cops were. Yeah, that's what I mean. It's amazing. You could just run outside and go cops dead bodies and they would fucking come running. They'd know to come. It takes 90 seconds for me to get to the street by your house, Jane. That's it right there. Oh my God.

I would like to take and I'm not going to judge anybody else's city because I'll take the city. We live in Phoenix if you live in a shitty neighborhood in South Phoenix. How how long if you said there's a dead body, how long would it take the cops to be there? An hour and a half, probably. They'd be like, how dead? Now we'll be talking like it's been dead for a while. Yeah, sort of dead. What do we mean here?

What's your address? How that as soon as I finish this ticket, I'm in the middle of it. That way it's pretty. And I know sounds like they've been dead a while. They'll be still be dead. When I got there he said they're already dead.

Yeah. I got time here. Yeah. 90 seconds on the spot. Unreal. He met the police at the door, set up upstairs, upstairs bathroom. Look on the floor. Holy shit. He said they obviously they said, well, where were you since you're the only person here, his parents are out of town. They're in New Hampshire. So he's the only person in the house, him and a dead woman. So not terrific care.

Once they got there, they realized the dead woman is Gina. Gina Hart, Texas. So Haaretz, the Haaretz, Harat says that's hard to say. The tough one.

It's a hard one.

So, yeah, Eugenia there. So anyway, yeah, that's what they figure out it is.

He says that he left the house at eleven, thirty a.m. He said he went to three stores around because he was between another town and he was going a couple of different stores. They said, did you run into anybody, you know, he's a nobody I talked to. I just watched something left three different stores, you know, said I went to an office in Wellsley Office Park, which is about five minutes away from his home. He said he talked with a woman there and he talked with another woman there.

They said hi to we didn't really talk to her. He just said hi. But then he actually had a conversation with another woman. He said he visited, then a convenience store. He said he got a Snapple and some popcorn bag of popcorn and some Snapple. You don't want popcorn and snack? I like Snapple.

I mean, pineapples. Good salty sweets. A nice treat. It is. It is. I don't know about the popcorn. I feel like the Snapple would disintegrate the popcorn immediately. Worse than soda.

I mean, it's no good. It depends on if you're getting that strawberry lemonade. That's not a good. That's not a good. No, it's a bad. But you know, what are you get what's. Tell me. Tell me.

The guy I'm getting I'm getting I'm getting peach. That's my something. But yeah, I don't know. But this is you got to think eighty seven. We don't have a full range of Snapple flavors. This is probably like iced tea and lemon. Yeah. That's probably your options at this point. But I don't even have that annoying lady hawking it. I know the Snapple lady. I don't even think she's there yet. No. If this is like underground, just Snapple is just kind of in the northeast back then.

So, yeah, he said he talked to some people, went to the convenience store. He said he got home around 2:00 p.m. and soon as he saw the body, he called police. That was two thirteen. The call came in to 911 one. So I mean, that all sounds pretty reasonable. That sounds normal. Yeah.

OK, everybody, let's talk about the condition of of this poor young woman here. OK, buckle up. This is this is rough.

I'm going to read directly from court documents. So whenever I'm reading directly from court documents, you know, it's going to be bad. Yeah. And I'm not going to, you know, passwords and I'm not putting any spin on it. This is right out of the thing. So make it medical and really as clinical as we can here. Quote, The victim was found strangled and mutilated in the upstairs bathroom of the bell. Daddy's home. Her nipples had been excised.

And along the hairline of her pubic area, there were multiple incisions making part of the small bowel visible.

Oh, yeah. Also a deep incision in her left wrist and small cuts and bruises around her throat because of asphyxia is the cause of death.

So all that shit was postmortem. It's possible. Also, she had I'm going to read right from the thing. I'm not even going to make it my own quote. The victim had been violated vaginally, vaginally and anally with a dildo.

OK, that's in court documents tell the court said that those bastards, her body was found encased in trash bags, one bag and closed her legs up to her waist and another bag was over her head down to her waist.

So like a Christmas tree, basically, like, yeah, they meet in the middle who they meet in the middle through the duct tape. Exactly.

And then. Yeah. Wow. So that's what they that's what they found in the bathroom. And he said, I think she's been murdered. Well yeah. On the phone you think Dennis she got in the bag. I don't think she fucking cut her own nipples off then jumped in and fucking two trash bags. That's Holly. What happened. See through the bag that it was a woman. I mean, I guess there's something.

There you go. Yeah. And hate to, you know. Hands sticking out without any nails. I was hair, I don't know who knows he did it, so he's full of shit.

I don't know here. We'll find out. We'll find out.

So there is no sign of forced entry into the house, into the home, by the way, doors were locked as far as like windows and shit like that. Back doors, things like that were locked. Her clothes and jewelry were found in a garbage bag in the hallway, like right outside of the room of there. So not like in the woods or not in the garage or anything like that, just right outside the room there. Like almost like if you went to prison and they put all your shit in the back shit up instead of by the door.

Yeah.

They also said that her clothes, her sister's clothes and jewelry were there. The bathroom where she was found was across the hall from where the the main area of the business.

That's where she would have been. Yeah, the bathroom's right there. The police officer said she was working in that particular house. She was a computer programmer. And then we found her here. So police searched the house.

They get a search warrant and they obtain to search everything in a search, detailed shit. And they seize a lot of shit. Really? Yeah, because they're they're they're suspecting Dennis right away because of the lack of forced entry and the lack of stealing jewelry. And she's a twenty two year old computer programmer not known to have the most enemies. It's not like she's a fucking Hells Angel and she crossed the street and slaves and now they're going to fucking rumble like it's not.

Yeah, you know what I mean. This is this is pretty shit. Nobody really is after her, so they're a little suspicious. I'm going to read a list. This is from the court document of what they say, things they took in the court. This is just the court. There's more and more detailed version. But this is the paragraph from the court document. Clear my throat for this, because it's quite the paragraph here. And I quote, photographs, negatives and slides, which are mostly sexually explicit.

Eight adult magazines and twenty four magazines depicting naked, pubescent and prepubescent girls and boys watch three hardcover collections of adult photographs, female undergarments, one envelope bearing the return address of the victim, one popcorn bag, the tested positive for occult blood that is a blood that can't be seen, can only be found with chemical agents. It was on the back. That's they call that OK? It's not like some he didn't use. This was not blood from a sacrifice or some chicken's blood.

No. Tested positive for occult blood. One broken GLADD heavyweight trash bag box, approximately one hundred videotapes that are sexually explicit or involve bondage or violence toward women for dildoes, bondage paraphernalia. One plastic incased photo of the victim, the contents of the victim's pocketbook, numerous sexually explicit eight millimeter films and numerous sexually explicit magazines.

Why does he have so much porn?

They found whips, ropes, ankle restraints, leather straps, gags, eye covers, full bondage paraphernalia, regalia, which I understand there's this is it of that this is a sensitive thing because there are a lot of people out there who were into this shit who fuck with nobody.

They hurt nobody. Whatever their thing is that that makes them sexually turns, whatever. That's that's the button that they need to push for him. And good for you for keeping that separate from it. Hey, I don't give a fuck what you do with you. And another adult can fucking hang each other by the ankles and beat the shit out of each other fucking in each other's eyes. I don't give a fuck what you do to each other. I really don't.

Right. To just attack each other's buttholes like there's no tomorrow. I don't care. It doesn't bother me. Not my problems. Not enjoy. Hey, I'm happy if you're happy. Good for you. But what the fuck are you doing dude. This is another lot. This is another thing. Well when you combine this with having some obviously obvious kind of a sexual, you know, somewhat his nipples cut off in your fucking house and then you have all sorts of shit like this, that's when it's creepy, very, very, you know, sadomasochistic, mixed with no domination because you've got child shit in there too much.

But the what the fuck here. Oh, man.

By the way, why you relapse, by the way, five foot tall, hundred pound twenty two year old one to look for our equals is for a twelve year old if you have a sick fucking mind. Yeah. And can fucking go. Yeah, I could fucking make that work for me. Oh boy. Think about that. Jimmy, this is, this is this is fucking disturbing. This is what I mean.

And think about what he has and what that was. Do you think that's the first time he did that? Couldn't possibly be you think he acted out his fantasy because there's more to this to we'll get into. That's not all he did. Do you think he got that far into an actual like like, you know, realized fantasy with his first person?

Now, I don't you don't do that in your own house. No. Think about cutting the things he was cutting specific. Yeah. He's specifically doing things on his first that be Kampeas first time. They can't be sorry as your first time, how would you cut, like above you can't be what would you deep cuts so deep you get? That's a lot, man. He was he had balls out. Yeah. And the wrist cut, things like that.

Like he has certain things he was into. They found all sorts of little weird cuts that were clearly done on purpose that just didn't know why is because that's what he was into. And obviously needs are dead to do it. You know, because he killed her first.

Yeah. We'll talk about what he needed, what he needed her to be dead first before he did. But, yeah, it's absolutely disgusting. So, yeah, they found all of that shit, the leather strap, several dildos, 58.

Let's go over it like it's very common. How on a partridge in a pear tree. But they don't say they don't say dildo today in paperwork. They say sex object or back then this is Eldo is a technical term. This is literally from court documents and from the Boston Globe dildo. Nineteen eighty nine or an eighty eighty eight incredible dildo. Fifty eight items of women's lingerie.

OK, that's weird. Yeah. I'm sorry. That's that's one of those like Jerry Brunos collecting shoes thing like there's something to that that's like dressing in it.

Yeah exactly. Now there's something to that. But the collection of it, the fifty eight items, where do those items come from. Right. Does he go by those you think are those people's things like those memories like shoes you would take or or fucking collections. Yeah. Or does he just, does he wear it. Does he put it on. Is he into that. Does he buy it in case he gets a fucking girlfriend. He can try to dress her up in whatever fantasy that he.

Who the fuck knows.

That's what I mean. He is to hold on to it for the texture while he. That's what I mean. Just put it around his cock and bull shit like the shoe. That's what I mean. Does he is it some sort of. Yeah. Tactile thing. What the fuck. Who knows. So he had thousands of pictures, obviously magazines, videos. They were like bondage videos, tamed and tortured for the title of one shit like that.

Yeah. And things like, you know, gross things, gross names and shit. So tons of things. Also, what they found in his possession were twenty nine nude photographs of Harat.

Yes. Oh. Of her that which her husband, when they asked him about, identified as pictures that they had taken together.

Where was he and her and Dennis stole them from their home and they didn't know they were gone holy. She had them locked up in something somewhere. Dennis had somehow gotten in there, found the fucking pictures and stolen them and had them for God knows how long. Unreal.

So that that's how dangerous this person he's he found in a hidden place. Yeah. The naked pictures. The most personal things. Yeah. So who knows what he's been doing. I mean, this is this is scary. This is like like I said, this guy is very Bundy esque to me. Like I want to know where the rest of them are. Yeah. Is what I'm talking. And the fact that once he got in there, it's almost like they tried to he's just he's not talked about like it's almost like let's pretend that guy didn't exist because we blew that one for a while.

Like that's what it almost feels like. I'm not saying that's what it is, but that's what it feels like to me. He yeah. So he said that they had you know, he didn't when he heard about the pictures, he looked for his pictures and realized they were gone.

And those are the pictures, the husband there.

So Gary, the evidence supporting why they're why they're obviously looking at Dennis would be his cache of shit like that, the lack of forced entry to his house right away, just as in terms of evidence of the murder. And then on top of that, him stealing these naked pictures, they talk to neighbors and then they say that he said he was banging her where it just doesn't add up that way. Other people have said that. Gina said that he's made passes at her before and she's turned them down.

OK, so it's it's a lot of conflicting stories are going on and they don't really know what to do. So for the whole day, they kind of hold on to him and talk to him. But he's not under arrest or they don't really know what to do with him at the moment. They're not sure what to do with him. Oh, and on top of that, he's also a federal witness. Right. So that means something to they have to deal with that as well.

And I really think that helps him a lot, as we'll talk about here.

He it's OK. So, yeah, we heard that that she had resisted his interests in her in the past. You know, Dennis is interest in her and. Yeah, the pictures, that's the most disturbing part. Once they get Dennis down to the station to he they ask if they could do some tests for blood on him and he volunteers for it. And they find occult blood, which is blood you can't see they have found on his hands, arms, close car under his fingernails everywhere.

And he had a three to four inch, very fresh scratch on his chest.

So basically, he makes O.J. look like the most innocent man in the world, like they found his blood in more places and he's got a scratch. It's like. You can't fucking make this up like it's like, wow, this is what a murderer looks like with fucking Lucite shit on him. You know, this is what he looks like. Look at that. So, yeah, there you go. They said that they did blood on both his arms, two hands car.

They also had a fingerprint. And the fingerprint expert found that his bare footprints were found on trash bags near the body as well.

Oh, he was barefoot. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure he was naked. Not going to ruin a suit and probably naked. Oh, he was naked. That, I'm sure, of a year long, fresh scratch on his chest. They said that he said that when he got home, he said, I don't know what you're talking about. I got home, I, I washed my hands before I went upstairs, and I haven't watched him since.

So when I found her, I was, you know, moving stuff around. Maybe the maybe the blood must have just rubbed off my hands so you couldn't see it. But it was there. He said that also he cut his he cut his finger, opening a box the day before, and he showed the guy a slight cut on his fingers. And see, I cut my finger from yesterday from yes. It's like O.J. I broke my arm.

I remember I cut of glass, I broke a glass and I cut my hand yesterday, same day my wife got stabbed. A shitload of weird. We both got cut yesterday. Super. You know why? It's because we're that close. I felt it for her. I was surprised O.J. didn't put that aside to say to try to pull stigmata moment. I love her so much. Like if she feels pain, I feel pain. So, you know, Jesus Christ.

So the police said that he they figured he had the opportunity to commit the murder. There's no corroboration of his traveling to Navteq from Natick, from Needham and back and forth. And there's no corroboration of him doing anything. He says he went out, but the only thing they know is that he bought a Snapple and a bag of popcorn. And what they think is that he did all this shit, killed her, did everything, clean himself up, got dressed, then went and bought a Snapple in a bag of popcorn, came home.

Oh, no. Call nine one one. Wow. That's that's the theory here of what he did. That's psychotic.

Yeah. You think because the Snapple is still called it was a hot day. Yeah. You think it's psychotic.

That is sick. That's fucking is. I got to go get a treat. First emerged. First time. No way. First time you do all the time you can still eat. Oh there's more Gemito there's more.

So it's three imprint's from a burrito from a burrito of him were found near the her body. Fingerprint expert said the prints were on unopened plastic trash trash trash stick flashbacks.

I fear if you will, that were recovered from the floor of the upstairs hallway near the entrance of the bathroom where the body was discovered. The bag was six to eight feet from the body, he said, and underneath a similar one, which her clothes were found.

So there's no way you just, like, touched it? No. He would have to fucking put it there.

You'd have to put it. Yeah, it was underneath something. So it's not even like there's no way unless somebody saw no one could have came after him and done it because he was there. So that's what I mean.

He made so many mistakes, though, James. That doesn't a like a first time to do this. I don't know if he had his overwhelming fucking fantasy to do it and he did this whole thing and he was like, I'll just say I wasn't here. Yeah, but in your own house, you can't with all that other stuff, too. And also, where do you hear other stuff that's in there? It's just how do you do that in your house knowing that you got that many dildos?

All I can think of knowing how many dildos you have, you know, the dildo collection is you can't do crazy shit in your house. You know, your cache of dildos. You know, you have your house has to be squeaky clean. Otherwise, if you're going to keep that kind of dildo collection and with that kind of weird shit, you can't have anything untoward happen because it's going to they're going to go and you have that many dildos, the dildos are going to aggravate everything.

Otherwise, you're dildo inventory is ruining your store. Ruining your story is fucked. If you have if you do nothing, if you're totally normal and you're like, oh, he's just got one hundred and fifty dildos. It's a quirk at that point. It's almost like it's kind of an interesting character thing that he has. Yeah. Like he's got, he's normal but I don't know what it is. I just love dildoes. He's just got a lot of dildos I guess.

I don't know. He's like Patrice O'Neal. Yes. We'll talk about his bag of dildos, but otherwise use Patrice O'Neal. But he's like I just like to have, like, you know, dildoes to have fucking miserable bitches wit or whatever he would fuck.

It's bad. Patrice O'Neal, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's all they would do. Like, but this isn't like that. Patrice O'Neal called and was like, yo, there's a girl with her nipples cut off of my fucking bathroom. Yeah. I believe the dildos would probably come into play at that point. Probably. I think he's got a he's got an exercise bag full of dildo, the whole fucking duffle bag. No matter what you're doing, if there's a dildo nearby, it changes every scenario.

It's true. Everything. It's true. It's true. It's funny no matter really what. You fucking deal no matter what. You had a birthday party for children and there's dildos around. It's weird that it's true you'd be at the gym, this dildo in your bag. That's weird. Running for office instead of American flags behind. You have dildos hanging. It's it's very weird. People would go, that's very strange. I don't know if I'm voting for that person.

Dildoes change everything. A little pro dildo for me.

I don't know if that's you know what? It's your right to bear dildoes. Your right to bear.

Yeah, there's a Second Amendment for a reason, and it is your right to have as many dildos in your possession as you want.

So weird. Yeah. So this is this is disturbing. They said that the prints matched everything. It's the right big toe taken after all this. The bag was one of nine that earlier people said were found wrapped around the body and elsewhere on the second floor as what they what the detectives found. Now, the chemist also said that the particles of blood were found inside the house and also on his shoes inside and outside the shoes, inside and outside the house.

However, those that blood they couldn't identify because this is eighty eight. This is prerelease. And, you know, there is DNA, but it takes months. So at this point, they can only tell, say, the blood type so they know it's a similar type to the victim and that's all they know at this point. But if there's one person massively with massive blood loss upstairs and there's a bunch of blood to go ahead and say it's probably hers, just as a, you know, I don't know, call me fucking crazy, call me a dreamer.

But, you know, so they also said that, oh, my God, this is just disturbing.

Now, his stories, they said, you know, we found blood on your fingers and forearms and all this in your car. You get it in your car. You got it in your shoe afterwards. Yeah. You said it was after. And he gave conflicting stories, obviously. You know, he said one minute he said, well, I went here and there. And that's when he said, well, I guess I might have taken my shoes off and whatever.

He was trying to bend his story to. What, the evidence. Right, exactly.

So the police think that after they after he choked her to death, he basically, you know, got off. He did it. That's when he did the carving. And he was getting off on that. And then he did some other things that we'll talk about in a moment. And then he went to the store and bought himself a Snapple and some popcorn. So they think he's an extra huge asshole at this point. Sure. They question him.

And, you know, he says this is what he says to the detective in his interrogation from the recording, quote, No, no, I didn't.

I loved her. We were having an affair. I came home and she was lying in the bathroom. This is when they said, we think you killed her, Dennis. No, no, I didn't. I loved her. We were having an affair. That's when he was the first time he said to the cops that they were having an affair. That's when he came out and they said, we think he killed her. He's like, no, I loved her.

We were having an affair. As a matter of fact, we were fucking mutually. That's how much. Yeah, that's how much I didn't kill her because we were, you know, because no one's ever killed anyone. They've loved her name. That's never happened. Or anybody there fucking ever, never, ever. In a million years, ever. Really. I mean, that's the thing that's so great when you see when there's a married couple and one of them's that you can eliminate, the one spouse is a suspect right away while they're married.

She wouldn't do that or he wouldn't do that, obviously, as you've seen from small town. Right. That's why people.

So that's why people get married, because somebody tells them that they love them and they go, well, at least I'm safe with this guy. At least they'll never kill me. I'll never do it now. So.

Wow. So that's what he says. And so they he tells them also. He says, as a matter of fact, we had sex before I left the house to do my errands. That's what happened. She came over, did little bookkeeping. We had sex. I left, went around to this town, to that town, stopped at a couple places, said hi to a lady in an office, got myself a snack, came home. Oh, my God.

Yeah. Bathroom floor. Right. I guess I'll take my shoes off and walk around in it. You know how that works. So that's his story. Take them off. Put them on and take them off. Put them on because there's blood inside.

Yes, that's crazy. He said at that point that they said, well, how is their blood here and there? And he said, well, when I saw something, I didn't know what it was. I saw a bunch of blood and I freaked out. So I pulled one of the bags back until I realized, you know, who it was.

And he said, quote, It was her. That's when I stopped and I went, oh, my God. And I called the you know, I called the police and they said they asked him, quote, I asked him if he got any blood on himself and he said no, which I don't know how you wouldn't in that scenario. But he did, obviously. And then they found blood all over the place, like we said, also all throughout his bedroom on fucking door handles the steering wheel, front seat pedals of his car.

It's all over the place. His car was like just a speckled polka dotted with blood, his entire fucking car and his yard and everything else.

He's just dragged it all over the. That's what happens when you're covered in blood. Yeah, you can't get rid of it even on the front of his shorts that he was wearing that he didn't see on the everywhere man, it's crazy under his fingernails, like we said, on a bottle in a can of food that he purchased before everything. Wow. He wasn't arrested until about 10:00 that night. And that's when he was arrested after he didn't have signed.

He didn't have good excuses for the blood. Now he's not put in jail right away. By the way, here's him at this point when he's being arraigned. Oh, there's this picture that'll be on the social media site as well. A lot of guys that everybody knows that murder small. Yeah, he is a very common. Doesn't look scary at all. Who else is like that? Oh, man. Named Bundy.

That's I mean, who else looks like they really blend in and then. Yeah, you wouldn't think twice every football stadium every Sunday. Yeah, absolutely. Except he's like a little bit thinner and in better shape in ten years he'll be the guy in the football stadium.

But I mean really little push broom mustache. Yeah. Decent head of hair and. Yeah. Good. A forgettable face. Still in the 80s the mustache was fashionable. Yeah. That's time you were Tom Selleck. Cool with a mustache. Unbelievable. So which was cool back then. Tom Selleck is 100 now and he does like he does the reverse mortgage commercials now.

He does. He's like, let me tell you folks about something out there. He's the new Wilford Brimley. Now, that's what he's turned into. I'm glad that we got a new one. We need a man with a mustache we can trust for your old people stuff. If he starts selling diabetic supplies, I'm going to shit myself. Oh, it's coming. It's definitely. Absolutely. I'm not a diabetic myself. Obviously, I'm going to go out of shape.

But I think my friends that are diabetics are sending a Liberty Mutual or whatever, Liberty Medical, wherever you get your get your diabetes supply. They told me to say it like that. I'm not sure why. So the judge here, our district attorney announces, quote, He was ordered to Bridgewater State Hospital for twenty days of psychiatric evaluation and observation to determine whether he's competent to stand trial. They think he might have a screw loose or two here. So the reaction of the community, they call his mother up.

The press does. And his mother says, this is Tina Belle. Daddy. She says, quote, My son is innocent and hangs up the phone, which is a good Italian mom, since you don't know my Dennis bag.

And she'd hang up, tell my mother I killed somebody. You could find 12 women hanging around my house and all this. If you eventually proved that she would, she would yell at me and beat me to death. But at first you'd go, that's a completely untrue. You don't understand. That's how she would answer the phone. Yeah, my son is innocent. Hello. He was. He was framed. He's framed. Yes. Mrs. Fletcher Gallery.

Not even anymore right now. God, not for forty years. But yeah. This is a landslide. Yeah. My son's innocent. He's innocent. Goodbye.

Like so the man Gary, they called Gary up. Yeah.

The husband. And he said, quote, There will be no comment from this household. Leave me the fuck alone. Can you imagine? I am sad my wife is dead. Hey, Gary, can we talk about your dead wife? I'm trying to watch Jeopardy and forget about that now. Yeah, I mean Snapple anymore.

I fucked my TV dinner now and fucking sit here and be depressed. I say you assholes.

So the rumors are swirling about all this shit too. They're talking about because this is like it's a small, rich little town. This people go crazy. This is like small town murder one on one here they go batshit.

They talk about there was a big set up because the people that know Dennis here that he says he didn't do it. So there's a big setup. He came home. Was it somebody that was mad at Dennis? Was it the porn guys? International, literally. People were like, oh, my God, it's the international child porn cabal that he put this guy in jail and now they're fucking coming after him. That's not how that works. And, you know, they're going to take him down.

And it's like, no, kiddie porn makers are pussies and they also like to stay under the radar, bring it back like, you know, come on over.

Yeah, come on. Let's talk, mother fucker. Yeah, I'm not twelve. Let's get it on my kids. Twelve and I'll kick the shit out of you. Yeah, it's going to save my kid's fucking six foot one. Enjoy. He's only thirteen would have had it. I dare you. That's huge. So yeah. This is what I mean like that's but that's one of the rumors like because I mean it's an international crime syndicate that he busted.

So they're thinking people are like that must be what it is. It's a it's a revenge plot or maybe something else. Who knows? Then people start talking about was it some experimental sex thing? Was it some weird, kinky shit they were into, you know, like like asphyxiation because people die because she died of asphyxiation.

Logical. The guy's got a shit load of dildos. He's got dildoes, he's got gags and things and pulleys and all sorts of weird bondage shit. So they're wondering maybe this shit was just a mistake. Right? You know, they're thinking maybe that's what it was. People didn't know what it was. The principal of the high school talked to them. I love them. They just talk to random people. This is Edwin Frid. He is the principal of Needham High School.

Well, he said there's a feeling something's missing, that there's a piece missing to all of this, so they're not just buying this simple explanation of he's a weird pervert, killed her, had a very bad exit strategy.

Yeah, like he's too smart for that. I think maybe he's too he thinks he's too smart for it. He thinks he can talk his way out of it.

Maybe he's so smart that he thinks this there's no way this is all of it. They're going to think there's another piece and therefore nobody will believe it. And I think he thought he could talk his way out of it because he's smart and also because he's was he was a federal witness. I think he's got some sort. He thinks he's got some sort of something and he's not completely wrong, as we'll talk about in a moment here.

The the wow, the neighbors who grew up near him said that the Bell Dottie families was quiet. They kept to themselves, never bothered anybody. One person said, we never heard anything from them. They were quiet, well-behaved. I can't believe something like this happened. I can't believe something like this happened. And our nice neighbor, when they say this is small town, this is why we do this show, because that person shocked. So we think it's funny that they think they're safe.

The person who's most shocked, though, is the well, first of all, one of the neighbors said he's always nice.

He's always so nice. It's hard to believe he could do something like that. We were all so shocked. That's a neighbor. The one that is most puzzled is the postal guy. Yeah. He's the guy that helped him blown away by this.

Well, talk about him in a second. That lady, the Donna room that he went to school with, she said, I didn't hear or see anything when she drove by. She said nothing unusual happened. She had driven by that day and didn't see anything. Another neighbor said, I look at the house and say, God, did this go on there? I don't think he had any history of anything like that. But we don't ever really know.

Do we guess what else is in there?

You don't ever really know what to tell. Does so many so many dildos and fucking blindfolds and mouth gags. It's just porn mags. We're in your neighborhood.

Do you know how many but plugs are there mixed with kiddie porn? The postal guy from the setup said, quote, It said that it was just completely a stunner. He said, quote, It's not the same person I dealt with. If it's true, he is not buying it. He said he was a cooperative, articulate, intelligent individual. He said I was completely shocked. He said I was probably of the most of the most surprised, if not the most surprised person around by all of this.

He said that it's certainly out of character from the person I know. I know. I'm not sure I believe this is what he said. He said in nineteen eighty seven what he had, what he described as a small collection of pornography. Even the porn, he said, seems like out of character for him. Not quite a dealer, not quite. You know, is it not personal use. So he's gets out after twenty days of the evaluation and he goes for a bail hearing, as you would imagine, obviously.

What do you think will happen here to a man who cut somebody's nipples off in his house, head on home to your dildos?

Yeah, he split out on bail and we believe he is let out on a hundred thousand dollars bail.

There were nipples. Hundred thousand dollars. Ballies release on mouse sniffles in the house and he's allowed to go home. A dead woman. Yeah. Carved up. Yeah. Picked fucking nipples. Jimmy's nipples and dildos everywhere. Head home. No, I'm not a big look.

OK, they said that they're going to put a bracelet on him. Yeah. So if he goes out more than 150 feet away from his telephone, the alarm goes off. Right. Big fucking deal. This happened very close to his telephone. So that's not really an issue.

Within that proximity of this happened. Nipples came off a woman's 12 feet from his telephone. Right. Like like there's a force field around your telephone that keeps women's nipples on them.

No, it's not what happened. I'll bet you every dildo is within that proximity. Oh, they're all in that process. The fuck they said they released him because it was the jails were overcrowded. So they released so they couldn't have him in there now. And not a big law and order bullshit. But I'm not that's just not me. I'm not do that. I sold shit. I shouldn't izal when I was younger and I've done a lot of shit.

So I don't believe that mistakes that don't physically hurt people I don't believe in really. You can don't worry about that forever. You can get over that shit. I'm not I'm not like that's a grace period. I look, I'm one of those and I'm not one of those people. It's like, let's lock people up so we all feel better. Right. Well, now he's in there and I don't want him watching any TV while he's in there.

Like, I don't fucking care if if if giving people in prison some educational shit and letting them do whatever makes them statistically less likely to fucking another person's nipples off when they get out. I'm all for it. I don't fucking care. Teach them, Colaneri. Whatever's better right is whatever works. I'm for hey, we can do an experiment, see what works best and then do that, you know, like fucking people today. It's like science stuff.

I really like that sort of things I've done to help, yeah, so I get it that there's not enough sense in jail, but there's got to be some guy in there for fucking drugs or something that you can let him out and not let. Yeah. The mammary mutilator go free. Somebody with a fuckin nickname like that. That's his nickname. I just made that up off the top of my head. But you understand what I'm saying, like somebody that deserves one for sure.

This is disgusting. I want to fucking just kick this guy in the dick and we're letting him out on this one hundred grand now.

And it's close to him like mad close. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like employs her. He killed someone exactly where they're letting him stay in his mom's house. It makes no sense. It just doesn't make any sense. So the neighbors who were so shocked now start a huge petition to get his bail revoked. They don't want him on the street, obviously. Right. They say the prosecutors have painted a picture of him as a sinister sex criminal.

Yeah. You know, murder, everything else. They hired an attorney to make their case. And the the guy said, you know, we don't know if I can do anything for them, but I'll give it a shot. He said, I don't think there are any indicators of who is going to commit murders unless they are a serial murder murderer. So it might be a hard case to push. The one resident here, Charles Hogan, helped organize the drive.

He said that, quote, The judges are looking to consider the release of violent offenders to home arrest as a way of managing the prison population. And, you know, they don't want that there. Obviously, they don't want this guy home. Exactly. Especially because he killed him, killed her there. They said given the allegations and the offense and his alleged involvement in child pornography, this bail is completely inappropriate. And there's the lawyer. They got said as a former prosecutor in the homicide unit for six years in Boston, I know there was never any similar bail in cases I've ever prosecuted.

I think this is a first where you butcher a woman and your one hundred thousand dollars. But that's insane, right? That's fucking insane. It's a lot, dude.

They don't grind.

They held O.J. without bail and he was fucking O.J. You knew who he was like. If he was going somewhere, people go, where's O.J. go? And they could see him. There's no way this guy could slip away in the night. And who cares if he cut his bracelet off? Don't know where he is. And really, the list of people that O.J. hated was zero anymore. Yeah, O.J. was really not a threat to anyone else. The person he hated was one.

That's what I mean. Not we're not defending O.J. We're just saying not that O.J. was a threat to the public at that point. He probably wasn't. But this guy is a fucking threat to the public. I'm saying. I mean, technically, this wasn't a hatred of a person. This was a compulsive desire of of somebody. This is even worse. He was into this.

This is what he makes his dick hard e by. Yeah. So they're all doing that. The one guy says, I don't like the fact that a man who has been accused of such a violent crime as this, who's been involved with child pornography, is staying two blocks from my child's elementary school. By the way, there's an elementary school point three miles from their house. Oh, yeah. So that'll say something there. And another a lawyer says, I don't like it as set as a precedent.

I understand that in some cases, an ankle bracelet and house arrest has been used to punish drunk drivers or something of that offense. But I don't like it for a case like this.

It's not like they built that thing to your fucking bone. Those things come off all the time and people just leave the bracelet there and then the guy is going to go off and they can cut somebody's body parts. I'll find somebody else. That's what I'm saying. I don't care if the alarm goes off. No, even 90 seconds for the cops to get there. You could slip away. It's a little too too much.

You know, what may be the possibility of it is is September 30th, which is right after this. Nineteen eighty eight is Jorgen Jensen's trial begins. Oh, gee, you don't think that the fucking you don't think that that has anything to do with an oven. Literally an unprecedented bail of one hundred thousand dollars for a brutal accused sinister sex crime, sex, murder. You're going to let him out on the street if he wasn't a federal fucking witness for the most high profile.

He's a child. Yeah, ever. This is what to do with federal agencies the way it is still, because they are in the homicide book, the David Simon book. They talk about a couple of mob guys, a mob guy who is a witness for the federal government. They sent his kids down there in the program, basically, and one of his jerk off kids got in a fight and shot some guy on the street. And it was obvious that he did it.

He admitted that he did it and the FBI came, scooped him right up out of jail and moved him on to the next city. The next fucking day, judge set a fucking like, you know, thousand dollar bail on a murder charge and got him the fuck out of there. I never heard from again. Charges dropped. Wow. Because that was more important because we need him. Exactly.

So if you're Gary and your wife was just eviscerated and fucking all this horrible shit's been done to her and they're letting him out on the street because you're child porn guy like, yeah, we want the child porn guy off the street, but that has nothing to do with my fucking wife. Like, she's not getting justice now because to Gary, the child, this guy is not as much of a threat as.

This guy exactly in my whole life, yep, now the Jorgen Jensen guy, he says that U.S. laws do not apply to him as his whole thing here. He says that he's on trial for selling thousands and thousands of dollars worth of kiddie porn. Obviously, we told you what he did. He said that I basically can't touch me. Yeah. Yeah. He said at this point, he waived his right to a jury trial and he wants to have a judge trial bench trial.

If convicted, he faces up to 20 years in prison and a fine of half a million dollars, as he should.

They defense adds a twist here.

They say they try to say that the the trial will revolve around jurisdictional questions, basically saying, is it you know, he crossed here, but he's from there and they're going to try to muddy the waters with that sort of shit, which is fucking gross. Absolutely disgusting. The whole fucking thing here. So October 7th, nineteen eighty eight, Dennis is still out and it comes to light a little something that they found in his safe. His safe.

Oh, boy. Imagine how gross that is.

Everything that the dildos are in the open. Yeah.

Think about all that other crazy shit we found that's just hanging out in his room, not in the same.

What is he lock up behind closed doors if he want to see. Well, what he has is Polaroids in a safe in the safe.

You know, the Polaroids are from what kids are that they're not kids. No, it's worse. Oh, the Polaroids are close up shots of his crime. Yeah, he's after those.

He took pictures of the nipples after he cut them off. Oh, no. He took pictures of the wounds.

He took pictures of his dick inside them.

He took pictures. He had sex with her. Then he took pictures of he used the dildos in all orifices and took pictures of that while all of the things in there, everything he's been fantasizing about the pictures he wants.

Yeah. Of exactly how I want to pose them in court and weird and whatever crazy weird shit turns him on. That's what he did. And he took them unreal. And he put them in his fucking in his closet and it's safe. And he was like, yeah, you know, they can't find him there.

They found distinguishing marks, obviously, and the wounds that matched up with the bodies. So they know it was him. It was five photographs, five Polaroids that he took. Yeah. So at this point, they ask for his bail to be revoked.

They're like, OK, he's not he can't say he's innocent. Now, we found pictures of what he did. Let's get the fuck out of here. So they. Oh, my God, Jesus Christ. The judge says yes, fuck that. Yanked him back in jail. Says, quote, Mr. Belden is a threat to society, the community in the neighborhood where he lives, which is a high residential area. Yeah. By schools. Oh, my God.

The his attorney said the bell shouldn't be revoked, though.

Imagine. Imagine that's your job. I feel that you have to do that because you're a lawyer. It's your job. Everybody deserves a defense. But I mean, if you're this guy, how do you go up there and go, you really want me to go out there and say, dude, they found Polaroids in your fuck and no one else put them there. Dennis, come on, bro.

He's going to go to jail. We don't know.

Those are his I mean, you know, they could be anybody could slip them into a locked safe. Right. That's all I know is combination talks a lot. Right. He wrote it down somewhere and lost it at the center.

Gave him bail at one time. Come on, let's hang on to it now. He hasn't killed anybody in the last month. He's been out. That's what I have. That's a judge.

Can you be cool about this? Just give him like a man when he got bail. You know, he should have said the first time when they did do it, he should have said sweet.

That is a bonus. I guarantee. He said fucking really? Yeah. He was like, for real. Holy shit, you're good.

I said to the lawyer, I thought so. They said that the prosecutor said also the large collection of child porn and all that sort of thing, it's pretty significant by the elementary school. He also said, quote, There was some mutilation to her body. As far as what mutilation? I will not go into that in detail. But, you know, if this is bad and we should be anchormen, so they do they revoke his bail.

He wants evidence suppressed. He wants it doesn't want it in there. First, the Polaroids, obviously. Yeah.

He placed himself in evidence because he had the photographs and one of the photographs, he was visible in it.

So that's a problem. That's a problem. Yeah. The other one were pictures that he had, you know, taken from their house, which is pretty bad. So that's a hard one to ones that he stole from Gary that from the bedroom there. But he says the argument is on the seizure from his bedroom closet of Polaroids and portions of nude female body, which is the fucking the victim, the. Victim, right, he said the seizure from his bedroom of a camera which to take Polaroid photographs as well, the judge reads all these out, blah, blah, blah, said the photographs.

Wow. Photographs could have been seized for the determining presence of blood and thus fall into the scope of the warrant. That's what they say. They go, hey, we could take anything to test it for blood. And then if we look inside it and it's photographs, well, then whatever's on those photographs, we're not blind. We can see that. And that all goes in line. We were just looking for blood. So he's trying to say they weren't looking for those photographs.

They were looking for blood. So, you know, and they said, well, I mean, they were in plain sight. They were in plain view, in clear plastic folders. So we saw what the fuck was in there. We were disgusted by it. And we knew that they corresponded to the crime that happened ten feet from there, kind of put two and two together, you know, investigation style like you do having plastic envelopes like like trading cards.

He put them in like like a Michael Jordan rookie. He put them in like a file folder, like a plastic sleeve, like you put it like a dishwasher warranty. You'd save it just in case you throw it in the registration. I'll throw that in my file thing and put it. I wouldn't do that. But some people do. So Jesus Christ. Register it, James. It's got a year warranty. That's what I'm saying. I never do.

And I, I'm like, I don't know, I'm not going to get online about my fucking dishwasher.

Do not even call them if it breaks. No, I'm going to throw it out and get angry. So the guy he says there's no probable cause to issue a warrant to search him or his car or anything else. All you did was find a butchered woman and child porn in my house. What gives you the right to search me? Why is he serious? Holy shit.

Wow, this is crazy. The my God, the victim's husband authorized the search of the vehicle that she came there and and that she had driven to work that day and he had no standing to change to to change challenge the lawfulness of that, because I think he took her car and shit all over it, got blood all over it.

They also he also contends that the state chemist that tested him for signs of occult blood didn't show probable cause. And they said, well, you agreed to do it, though. If you're voluntary, doesn't matter if we have probable cause or not. We can ask you to do anything. We can ask to look inside your butthole. If you let us, then I mean, it's on you sign you if that's where you put the murder weapon. That's what I'm saying.

You can say, no, that's unreasonable. You need a warrant to get inside my fucking orifice. But you want to get up in the crack, you're going to need a fucking piece of paper or you can be like right on and grab your ankles. So at that point, what do you want from us? So, no, you're rights, motherfucker. Don't know what to tell you. So he says the affidavit was more than relevant. The defendant that was his employee worked in the office, found murdered right there.

Obvious shit. It's going nowhere. The evidence January nineteen eighty nine is Dennis's trial. It's a six day trial. The police witnesses testified about everything, sexually explicit magazines portraying women in various forms of bondage and all the shit and dildos. He doesn't testify, obviously.

No, he better not know. Now, the defense is only defense is they seize on one thing and it's really weak. They seize on the fact that around noon that she, the victim in the office, had a phone call and talked on the phone.

So it's probably, according to the defense, whoever she talked to on the phone at noon must have killed her. That's what it was. He gets a guy on the he's got to in one of the investigators, the medical examiner here. And the lawyer says, would it assist you because they were talking about time of death and you can't as a medical examiner, you're not taking into account like the what they said, who left where. You're just looking at the science of it and you put a time of death.

You can't put it. There is no half hour window and time of day. He died sometime between ten, thirty, eleven. Impossible. It never happens. They give like a six hour window because you don't fucking know everybody's different temperatures. Rigor happens, different size of people. It's a it's a big math equation. So the medical examiner said sometime between 8:00 a.m. and 2:00 p.m. that's all I know. And because it's a warm day, she would have stayed out of rigor longer.

She's smaller, blah, blah, blah. So they said the lawyer said, what did assist you if you were to learn that miss her heart? Sis took a telephone call at 12:00 noon, and the guy was like, well, then probably after then sometime between then and two fifteen when we found her dead, then I would put it right in there any time after she was talking.

And when we found her dead, I would say sometime in there she's probably killed. Well, thank you for giving me that four hour window shop. I went to medical school. Now we have to two more hours. That's it. To catch up to. That's all it is. So they said by two, she was definitely that. We know that much because we fucking found her and she had blood out and all that sort of thing. Now, they talked about also tried to seize on the fact that it just shows blood type, right.

Doesn't show that it was her blood.

Well, that was the only blood spread all over the house, so, yeah, the jury was juries don't need DNA when it's that much of a thing, like nobody else was bleeding.

So, you know, it's probably her blood. We've got a body sande's blood and footprints with her blood from the goddamn body all the way. You know, if they start at the body, it's probably hers.

The prosecution closing here. They say that he demonstrated the prolonged determination to kill his victim needed for a first degree conviction because the jury can either pick first or second degree second degree. I'll get him out after 15 years or so in first and get him life with or without parole. So, yeah, they maintains that he left the house to do some errands. He found the body, but they don't believe that. The prosecutors said, quote, he was jealous of Gina and Gary and he planned the cruel and vicious way for Eugenia to die.

That's what he says. The defense closed closing he says he turns to. And guys, come on, what else can you say? Come on. I mean, you heard the evidence. He looked at him. Look at that mustache. It's an honest mustache, right? I mean, you know what I'm talking about. So he's in a weird shit. Clearly, the evidence is wrong. Yeah, no, it's all it's all wrong. So he said that he could he he killed her.

He could not have. They said that he cooperated with the police. He displayed true grief. They said if he really killed her, he couldn't reacted that way.

OK, you know, he couldn't have pretended. So January twenty six, the jury comes in. That's the end of the day. They've deliberated for four and a half hours and they can't reach a decision. They need another day, so they go home. All right. We're going to give you guys one more day. So mid-afternoon they come in and then they come out and they say, we need you to explain, oh, my God, we need an explanation.

What's the difference between first and second degree murder? And they set a conviction for second degree murder, made him eligible. After fifteen years for parole, first degree conviction could be returned. And they said only if the jury believed that he planned the murder so intently that he made a clear decision to kill Horwitz's before he attacked her. The killer must also have used extreme cruelty and atrocity to warrant a first degree murder conviction. The first degree that they the prosecution said they asked for the first degree on the grounds that the strangulation took several minutes and then he systematically took her apart and did horrible shit to her and it was pretty gross and all that sort of thing.

So finally, after 12 hours of deliberation, the jury comes back.

We think we got it now, guilty of first degree murder, really first degree. So the judge is more than happy. Good, more than happy. He says that he kid killed her with extreme cruelty.

And he says, you, sir, may fuck off life without parole or take a hike. I am shocked.

Take a walk, Saraf that they got that right. Well, wait a Liggett's. Where do you hear what they get wrong, too? So, Gary, the husband said he's just glad it's over January eighty nine. Jorgen Jensen verdict comes in.

So I was right after that. So it was all right in a row. You know, the shit has a lot to do with everything here. They find him here guilty of whatever the hell he was doing. He had a Copenhagen bookstore and selling all this shit. Yeah, absolutely disgusting. They say use sir again. May fuck off. This is not enough, though.

Thirty seven months imprisonment, three years and a month and forty and forty thousand dollars of for the most for the high profile child kiddie porn thing in the history.

That three months. That's what you get.

That's what you again and I don't believe Amanda Kopenhagen for that. That's what I'm saying.

Forty grand's barely going to cover the expenses of the sting. Right. And I'm not saying that like also again, I'm not one of these people who's like I don't believe that sentencing a person to jail should be sentencing them to some other form of violence, because that's that's not a sentence. The sentence is jail. So when people are in jail, you should also make sure they don't stab each other like crazy and rape each other and things in life.

Except this guy. Except this guy. You just hope you go. Thirty seven months, someone's going to fuck him up.

Right? Right. He's the Danish kiddie porn guy. Yeah. Someone's going to cut his fucking throat in the shower. I you my whole thirty seven months is torture for him. I hope, I hope he is just they generally put those guys in with other guys like them and they don't stop. I was going to say no because they're all gross. They're going to say his, they're all pussy. His main concern should be whether the skinheads or the black guys are going to stab me first.

That should be his concern at this point.

They hold a charity ball for Eugenia's, I guess people here in her memory there on April 1st. Nineteen ninety. It's at the Crown Plaza on Route nine. There they have all this stuff. And it was if they had one earlier, I guess with her name and they do it for cancer benefit. So that's really not even in the nice girl. Even in death, they're using her for cancer benefit. Really nice.

April nineteen ninety two. OK, now we've said, like who said, how does the lawyer go up with that? That's Dennis finally has one. I don't think he can find a lawyer to do it for him. He acts as his own attorney again. Who does did that? Yeah, exactly.

What is he trying to do? He wants his porn back. What?

He wants all the porn returned to them, the dildos, the bondage, everything taken from his house. He wants returned to him.

That's his property. I miss my dildo, OK?

Including the kiddie porn. What he wants is kiddie porn back. Jimmy, I'm not fucking shitting you.

How do you define file that he wants those items seized that the Commonwealth now has in its possession, those items that have been returned to the possession of Maldive. They want them to be returned to him or designated a family member anyway.

OK, he says, oh, my God, Jesus Christ. With a straight face. He went in and he said that he argued that the prosecutors were refusing to return seized items simply because of their sexual nature in violation of his constitutional rights.

It's called evidence doesn't not just stay. I would well, especially the dildoes were used in the commission of a fucking felony commission of the post murder disgustingness. He wants us back. Of course he does. They're fucking souvenirs you wouldn't want. Yeah, of course that would he's. Wow.

What? That's like the deer head that you get from our guest. This is disgusting. Yeah. He said that to the judge, quote, They're asking you to infringe on my First Amendment rights, Your Honor. That's what he says. Ask acting as his own attorney.

He said he wants to take the court the case back to superior court for a full hearing. He indicated that he did not want to be. The judge said, I don't want to be the guy making the fucking decision here. He said he made no ruling and said that he was inclined to order that all his belongings should be released to him. But he said that that order will have to be stayed pending a review by the appeals court. He said, Jesus Christ, man, he got to question people on the stand while he questioned people.

He asked he didn't ask the whereabouts about his pornography. He instead quizzed the investigators about a towel found next to Gina's body and asked why only ten of the twelve empty envelopes taken from the office had been returned to family members.

That's what he said. Nineteen ninety two, the judge. Finally, there's a ruling. The judge rules.

I got to get a gavel to gavel. The judge rules. He can have his porn back. What? All of it. I'm not shitting you. He said this is the most infuriating thing ever. He said that the Commonwealth return everything except the envelope bearing the victim's return address and the contents of her purse. What about the kiddie porn? He then stayed the order pending a review. But he said he reasoned that he's serving a life in prison without the possibility of parole.

From this, he found no compelling public interest justifying forfeiture of these items seized. He noted that Baldy's property would be returned to a designated representative and not to Baghdadi himself. Whether Baghdadi would be permitted to possess the returned items in prison would be, according to the judge, determined by correctional facility rules and not an issue before him.

This is fucking wild, they said. Yeah, the district attorney said, you know, there's images of naked children, including twenty four magazines depicting naked children with, you know, titles such as Disgusting to talk about here.

Give that back. He said, you know, what the fuck basically.

And they said, well, this is going to be the most infuriating shit you've ever heard in your life, OK? The order to return all of this shit pissed everybody off. They said there was pictures of preadolescent adolescent children, which very well could be in violation of the state's child pornography laws. Why the fuck is he going to get that?

And they said that US postal inspectors, wow, if for intent to distribute must be proven in order to convict under the state's child pornography law. OK, so basically you there's basically the it's a crime to get it right and it's a crime to give it right. But if he has it and he didn't produce it, it's not a crime and he's not going to give it to anybody else at that moment, there was no technical present tense personal use.

I have it and I back to it. Fucking statute. No, no, back into it.

Statute if you can get in possession of it and not get caught. So they said to have it. The judge said technically by law, I can't keep it from technically it's not illegal by in the scope of the law, even though it's clearly illegal.

And I would have to give it back to him. Call your senator.

Also, to add insult to injury, as The Boston Globe put it, he claims that if his items are returned, he should receive restitution.

Oh, my God, you should have to. This we shouldn't. Well, at that point, we should lock him up forever for what you just said, you just sell me kiddie porn, sold the kiddie porn, case closed. Barnes' closed.

Done. Now burn that shit. Oh, my. That should be enough. Right. Saying I deserve restitution. You just told me above about trying to sell me a kid's dick.

Yeah, I'm getting worse. September ninety five, he sues over cancer fears. He said he's late. He's upset because they used the chemical agent to detect traces of blood on him. So he's suing for six million dollars because he might get cancer from it.

Joining the class action suit, the it's the chemical ortho title Talledega, which is known to cause cancer, probably not in one application. I would assume people are constantly exposed to it, like the doctor probably has to worry about it. Not a one guy who touched his arm once. It's the guy that sprays the roundup that is the guy that's most exposed to it, you know? I mean, it's yeah. It's not the it's not the stocks.

The shelves. Exactly.

They said that it is he said that he's very nervous at the thought of coming down with cancer and has difficulty sleeping. Police captain said he wasn't exposed, that he wasn't exposed to the chemical. The chemical is not applied directly to the skin. You can see it like over it. It's whatever it's it's it attaches itself to it. And you it's like how they do fingerprints back in the day with a certain shrinky trick you can do. Well, there's a trick you can do with to get prints that are on shet with the hand.

Never mind.

So August Lord watch Beverly Hills Cop two. It's in there with the tape and then another with the. You can burn something and get a Oh OK. Yeah. So August twenty third, nineteen ninety six. The final ruling on the porn. I've never been so interested in whether a man gets his pornography or not here. So they finally said that the Commonwealth argues that restoring his possession of four dildos, twenty four items of alleged child pornography and numerous sexually explicit productions, including tamed and tortured body torture and tortured ladies, would justify what justifiably spark outrage and disgust and the general public.

The decision is you cannot have your fucking porn back, you disgusting asshole. Good to know. They said it's a three judge panel said that it's not in the public interest for your disgusting ass to get your porn back. Fuck you. How's that? We throw it away.

We don't care. They said in these circumstances, to return the proper property would be so offensive to the basic concepts of decency treasured in a civilized society. It would undermine the confidence that the people have the right to expect in the criminal justice system. Who exactly? That's why there's appeals. OK, 2013, Dennis and two other prisoners sued. They bring a lawsuit up to try to get voting rights from prison. Oh, we've already established that.

Again, worry about not getting ass raped. Right? Worry about whether the skinheads or the black guys will stab you first for what you've done. Are you fucking kidding me?

You don't get a say in what happens out here when you have life without parole. That's what I'm saying to you. If you're going to come back, then, yeah, maybe, I don't know, whatever the fuck we'll talk about it or, you know, life without. Fuck you, because I looked it up. Massachusetts, too, is one of the 14 states that prohibit people from voting while incarcerated in prison, but return the right immediately upon release.

You don't have to wait five years. There's no real application for your rights. You get out. You can vote tomorrow because you're out. That's I hate that shit when they. Well, that person can't vote now. Well, you know what?

Come on. Let's see if I can break if somebody wants to vote. Well, that's that's that's going in a different direction. They want to participate in society like that. That's a completely different direction than whatever. Put them in prison. Right.

That shows that they are super and that's positive. And what's happened, that's like getting a job, doing things like that, voting. These are like society things that we do. So if you're involved in that, that's that's great. That's good. Yeah. That's not underground.

So I like that, but I don't like that he wants to be involved in the shit that happens out here. You don't. Yeah. You've lost that. Right. They told him to fuck off anyway. But still legislators said that people who've committed murder and other heinous crimes don't deserve to vote. One guy said, this is Paul Froster Representative. This is an issue about justice. Philosophically, no. This one guy says he doesn't believe that inmates have the right to vote at all.

I don't know, whatever. I guess while you're in there, it's kind of hard.

But at the same time, I don't know whatever that's like, say, never one that's telling me how to like my life, your life without I don't care. You showed us that you don't know how to live a life.

Well, that's I mean, you've kind of lost it with a murder. Like we need to separate murder from everything else. Do I think that's the other thing we have to separate, like violent crime big time. Like we need to separate how people are housed. Everything you can't put violent criminals in when people aren't violent. It's you're making a predatory system. You're making people, other people violent that wouldn't have been violent because now they have to be violent and it's not good for later.

People say, oh, well, they're in prison, fuck them, I'm not like that anyway. But either way, even if you are like that, unless you're this guy, they are not going to be in prison forever. So when they do get out, do you want them extra pissed off or do you want them with, like, kind of a purpose and somewhere to go? Yeah, I'd rather have somewhere to go. Something to do.

I don't know.

It's just me. The other point is that that's about as political as we get. If you're going to push somebody in prison and just say, well, whatever, fuck them, they're in prison and they're on a not so long term, eventually they're not going to be in prison. I mean, they are help them and they're getting not in prison. And you just now sharpened the knife. They're going to come out and be fucked. You're going you're going to eat those words.

And it's only because people and I get I get the I get the thought behind this and I get the feelings behind. So they go in there, do something wrong, and they get to get an education or they get to get that. And then they come out and they're got to step up over my kid who has no education. Well, first of all, you're that person's prison education and they're prison on there. We'll put them below your kid on the scale of things anyway.

So don't worry about that.

If your kid's such a fuck up, he's picked over by someone who's a violent prisoner. I was I didn't go to school or anything like that to. But I don't know. I just I don't care about shit like that.

You have to think about the bigger picture anyway, because what about, you know, otherwise this person is going to keep going back in jail. And in the end, guess who keeps paying for them? You you you're upset about it. So if you don't want if you're so upset about it, make them not have to go back. It's better. I don't know. So anyway, they they ended up doing some other shit, but it's not has nothing to do with them.

They went nowhere with that. So anyway, he currently is in at MCI Norfork, which is a medium security prison.

Yeah. I don't I feel like that in Massachusetts. That's in Massachusetts and that's the county they're in there. So he is, they're still in prison. So good for him. It's been over thirty years and he definitely certainly deserves to be there and he'll be there a while. I mean he was born fifty five so he's only in the sixties. Well he's got some more time left. He could be there another twenty years. He's barely older than Don Lemon.

That's what I mean. Barely. That's a shock that he was young. Eugenia Contee. Her access was buried at the Edwards Church Cemetery in Framingham. I believe that's where she's from. Yeah. And yeah, that poor girl, Jesus.

Twenty two years old, so young, washed away, two years old, living and even more disturbing for some reason, all over fucking eBay are for sale. Pictures from this case here is you can look here. I'll put them on social media. Here's this for seventeen dollars. Just a picture of Dennis standing there being arraigned. I'll look at the courthouse, at the courthouse.

They're like professional, like press pictures that we're like that we're like they're from like newspapers that were. But they're the originals. So there's that. Here is the picture of Jena. Yeah. That the family gave them. It's like it's like a yearbook. It's like our senior year. How much of that one. Seventeen dollars. And then was it nineteen twenty two dollars. Canadian. Here is Dennis. This is when the jury was taken back to his house.

The jury was taken to the crime scene and this is him standing, watching the jury watch the bathroom and there's that. And then here is him leaving the crime scene with surrounded by police officers about it.

No. Oh, you know, he's not disappointed. I hate that we had to be here with strangers. This is my happy place. This is a happy place.

Now, his house, that house at twenty five, Paul Revere is the address in Needham. Yeah, that house sold in two thousand two four four hundred five thousand dollars and sold again in two thousand three four five hundred forty five thousand dollars. Yeah, it's currently off the market. Someone lives there, right? I don't know if they know what happened there. I'm sure they do. I fucking hope so. That neighborhood, someone had to sell it to someone told them.

But right now the estimate on the thing there on Zillow is one million seven thousand two hundred and eighteen dollars.

That's a nice return after fifteen years. Not bad. What about the one people. They sold it for one hundred and forty thousand dollars profit in a year. Not bad. Not too shabby. They bought it cheap because it's a murder house and then they fucking unload it to someone who know knows a murder house. The property made some cash. That is neat.

In Pennsylvania are Pennsylvania, Massachusetts and I don't know, one of the most twisted, weird, fucked up people.

I don't I'm I would be surprised if there's not more.

I'm shocked if that's just as first that's I think he's done it before, but not to this extent. I think there's somewhere in Boston or somewhere outside of his comfort zone. There are places where they have found women, maybe, you know, street women, things like that, when children, possibly whatever, he could find that. But that were they didn't know they found him behind a dumpster or something. And that was his first attempt and he never got to do his thing.

And finally, he had in his environment with. Nobody around all the dildos, all the dildos, all the bullshit, all the cutting he wanted, he could do anything he wanted with somebody little that he could work out his fantasy. Finally, maybe he couldn't fucking this was it. I don't know. But I personally, just from what I've heard, I would be surprised if it was his first, although the clumsiness of the getaway would suggest that he definitely didn't plan it out very well for a guy who's smarter than that.

So or he got to a point where he was like, fuck, there is blood everywhere and I can't. It's my parents house. Yeah. I'm not going to get her out of here. That's what I call the cops.

Do you think that he started trying to just trying to have sex with her? She resisted. And so he started strangling her, possibly donate to whatever. And then once once he strangled her. Yeah. I mean, we got to go all the way with it. Can't can't choke or halfway. Then let her go home to her husband. She's going to tell who's going to come over and kick the shit out of me probably. Or call the cops or do something.

Find out I got his picture, come over with a bunch of guys from Framingham and beat the piss out of me while screaming about the Red Sox. That's not a good thing. I want that to happen. So, you know, maybe he decided to go the rest of the way, kill her, and then once he killed her, he was like, well, she's dead now. I get to do anything, you know, what else am I going to do?

But all the shit I want to do.

Then once the bag drop, he is like, oh, my God. Dead bodies much heavier than I thought. This is heavy.

There's blood everywhere. I don't know where to put a dead body because I'm not you know, I haven't done this a million times, even killing it in the back of my house to take my out of what am I going to drive away with this? What if I get pulled over?

Says my parents house. That's what I mean. So who knows? I don't know. I don't know if you if you know, tell us. Tell somebody. But most of all, tell the world get on Apple podcast that Purply can give us a review. They help a ton. They really do. We don't know why five stars would be wonderful. Also go to shut up and give me murder dotcom where we have to announce that the first part of the year shows, I think it's the first four or five months from May through may have been moved again.

Twenty, twenty one, because obviously there's no thousand person theater shows going on anywhere in the country. So we're not going to be the only ones doing that. That would be insane and you'd be insane and it would be pointless. So we look like dicks and then we get you sick. We're no one's doing any of that. So it'll be moved. And when we can do it, we'll do it. And we are going to have another virtual live show.

This time we'll do the actual small town murder. We'll do a case. It'll be just like a live show. We we got a better sound set up this time. It's going to be really awesome. And like a real live show just in your living room because we can't get anywhere else. Do you guys. So do that. Check all that out. Listen to crime and sports as well. Also listen to I hate this movie. Follow us on social media, please.

We are at murder small on Twitter, at small town part on Facebook and at small town murder on Instagram Patreon. You want to have the bonus episode, right? They are awesome. They're really great. We have tons of good patriots stuff. We really do. It's not just us sitting here taking off on Patriots. It's a real thing. We make it funny. It's always good. And you can get all of that bonus stuff, including last week's, which was on the American Murder documentary on Netflix about Chris.

What's that horrible shit that he did to his wife and what a star is? Fucking poor little babies. Everything that happened today is terrible. But that compared to that is those babies. I can't get that out of my fucking head, James.

I have to get that out of my head. I searched him and read up on his behavior in prison.

He was such an idiot. His is with his underwear and Vaseline, James in another guise.

So there you go. There you go. It's great. There you go. What's he has a great body he's been working on. So you can get all of that wonderful, terrible stuff there and you get all the crime and sports bonus do. So tons of amazing bonus stuff, patrie on dotcom slash crime and sports. And also Jimmy will give you a shout out and mess up your name. And if you just want a shout out and to have good karma, you can do that as well.

Be a producer in another way. That would be over on PayPal using our email address, crime and sports at Gmail dot com. That said, I know what I need right now, and that is I need to hear the names of the most wonderful goddamn people in the world who would never, ever kill us and put us in two separate garbage bags. Jimmy hit me with them. Now, this week's executive producers are Lisa Letterman. What did I do?

God damn it. On the first one. Second one, Lucy. Yes, Crookshank, Anthony Folie, Andrew Couch, Ridell Turner. Chris Hornberger. Jesse Gee, Tony are Zagar. Herczog, yes. Hector Grimshaw, Jared Watkins', Joanne A'Hearn, Sean Qadim Shedden, Snedden, Molly McDermott.

Hang in there. She's Oh boy. She's got to, she's doing it. She's going through it. Rachel, Rachel Funderburk, Karen James and Jordan Bennett. You guys we can't do it. Thank you guys. So want to say it but for real. Thank you so. So my greatest. Thank you. Other producers this week are Nesto Ortiz. We love her and Marsteller needs somebody we love. We miss you. Our Nestel. You're a good man.

I miss the shit out of you. You're you're one of the reasons I miss. No one shows here. Absolutely. One of the Keys, a Phoenix comic who is one of the few that we like outdoor, really funny, too. Very funny. Find him on Twitter or wherever you are. Nesto Ortiz. He's I don't know how to I don't know what his handle is probably like. I don't know. You look up that, you'll find him.

He's a great he's a great guy. He's he'll be friends with us or following us. Yeah, that's the guy. Yeah. Other producers are Reisa Wadden, I think. Anthony Munoz. Patricia Helene's of Lineman for the Cincinnati Bengals. I think so. The Hall of Famer is all next.

Anthony Munoz, Zoriah Nesto Anthony's Coolac, Patricia Hilliard, Shannon St. Louis. She's the daughter of St. Louis. Emily Petroski. Wonderful. Juanita Sinnen. I don't think that's Simon. I think it's Sanon, Giovana Vargus, Lee Jennings boy. Kat Ferguson. I mean, this isn't going to be a good week for me. Rosie Goldstein, Dave Brown, Tina Gresham, Elizabeth Janmaat, McKayla Campbell, Kayla, Christina. Here's what I did. I figure I write better with pencil, so I wrote it in pencil.

I can't reconcile.

That's the I can write better, but I can't write the other issue. Kayla, Christine, McKayla Campbell, Elizabeth, Jay, Dillon Marsh, Kyla Joy. Martha would no last name. Valerie Atwood's Destiny Wolf Slayer better with that light. Nope, not that certain. Another light on Virginia is not that house know.

So, so the light actually bounces off the pencil. So then now that now the whole sheet just a blur. Now it's like wet asphalt. I do my best lesson. Sarah Turner. I said that Michelle feminize destiny Wolseley. Our Lisa Rose, Jo Jo Freeman. Miles Joyner. Michelle Warren Bonzai Hansen. Oh Frank. What an I do Crawley. Maureen Perrineau. Karen a proxy I think proxy. Brendon with no last name read with no last name.

Kate Foshee. Benjamin Fresco. Rachel Barters. Dominic Penix. I think that can't be penis right. Auto auto this score devo boy. Nope. It's never going to happen. Cynthia Jones. Julia Nope. That's Julie Brooks, Amanda Cavanaugh, Elizabeth Rochelle, Carmen Perez. Jeff Watson, Jordan Wood. No last name make good. Nineteen eighty one. Casey Boyd. Boyce, Katy. Oh boy. Oh meet me out Medwed. That's what I did.

Michael Kate Ratkovic would I know a guy named Covington. He's a fucking rat so that makes that bubble sprite. Sarah grossing Jessica Kampfner, Tallia Dabbs. Clayton Barney. Oh what did I do. Oh my God John that can't be right. Jonah, John. Jonah. Oh I was going to say, Jonah, when all that happened. And Holland for John. Jimmy, there's an issue here. Clayton Barney, Tallia Dabbs, Mary Grace Mattey with no last name.

Nicky Albertsen, Eric Gonzalez, Julia Keliher, Samantha Pichon Reylene Gutierrez Ashli with them or Whitham. Mike Jefferson. Jeremy Barella Birria. It's it's Italian. James Huai and Alex Haywood's Anastasia Sagansky, I think. No, probably not. Luke Hopper. Jackie Meadow's Caroline or Caroline Edwards. Adam Crane. Steph would no last name. Kim Bales'. Emily Osborn. Mary Mahaffey Murphy. Christine Pacho.

Look drunk Bray Wyatt. That's a wrestler, right? Yes, I think so. Nick Longly, the probably Luke's kid, I'm sure. Bradley driv doll. Susan Nichols. Patrick Krick Karakul No Kriegel Moreen Cavnar Trevor bald guy. Summer Blinco. Becky Nope. That's back j.l Susan Nichols. I said that Nick Bunting Deja Deja Garver call Heather Dustmen. Jesus McKay. What. McKayla Red Janeck. That can't be right. Connor Francis Dorsay Garcia. Megan Ray David.

What's what is this. Stephanie May. I think that's right. Kayla, Christine. Katie with no last name. Brooke. Chaffer chatter Cindy fills metal Mike. Sixty eight. Martha with no last name. Jamie would no last name. Joey Scarlet treh wildly. I think Kate hiden cat can't hide and can't deem it. David No last name. Jeremy Swensson, David Plant Ryan Quick Katie Bertman, Miah Ponet and Abbott. What. Lance Howard. Holly Norwood Brady Kay Sammy Wagner Ah Choo Choo Robin James.

Jonny Florez. Lisa Watson. Brian Corcoran. Stephanie Vasseur. Probably Phil's daughter I'm sure.

Absolutely. I mean I wouldn't doubt it. I do that so I can fix this. Elizabeth Goldstein, Laurie Sarsae, Matt Grauwe, Hannah Waters. Luis Moreno. Nyima Jay. Daniel Oliver.

Danny Chesnut. Paula Hardy. Hello, lady. It's never going to happen, Cassandra. Pito, Lee-Anne would no last name, Adam, Joel, Joel Rattenbury, Rottenberg, Brady, what beriberi rotten? I don't know. Braiden would no last name. Stephanie Savage, Caitlin Payne, Norio and Ceferino Meline. Marlene Lind. Lydia Platt. A Plant God Carroll Young Rob Gold Rush Keiren I think. Rebecca Danovitch. Sam S.. Daniel Morgan. Jennifer Reed.

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CPS took her baby. She's crying her. Got us the best documentary ever made, Madison Snuggly, Donna Donnis House, Jason Stuart, Anders Hansen, Katleen for what? Kaitlyn Thrasher Fraizer. God damn it, Krikor, the sexiest of the white family.

She makes the Whose and the Buku Cricket Hillyard Info Sports now. Sophie Aitkin. William Horton probably Tim stuntwomen I assume.

Ah he hears a who won with Sandy with no last name. Crystal Moon, Becky Safak Dustin Gibson. Tammy Yorkeys Addison Burki. I think Ben Slater Ghosty with no last name loop with no last name. Leeanna Martin. Heather White. Scott Hamilton. Sarah Grubb. Rebecca Mildred Mildren will heart Mireia I think Ave Maria. Maria. Yeah.

That's too many letters. It's, it doesn't make sense. You looked at me. I don't have it right on the inside with no last name. Ken Junior. Dahla Pursey, Ashlynn Michelle Michael Reeves'. Melissa Cockapoo. Poop Scheier. What Royal is her last name. James Martin. And he donated both ways. Well James has been around forever. Thank you so much Bill. Nicole, Brandon, Jane, Kyle, Gary. It's Gary Garrett. Peggy Garrard Jarrard.

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I'm just, I'm really just not good at this. Erika Fowler.

I don't know why I promised this when I'm terrible at having Avenir Callum Lane, Kyle Nordberg, Kelly Weaver, John Wood.

No last name Lukken Aníbal Marco Luna, Tonya Kristi Batmen with no less because that's Batmen we know him and shit and Nurnberger what oche yet. And Urna. Oh boy. Casey Ma. Elizabeth Rakowski. Cristie Torpey. Yes. Mandy Griffo. Emily Costa. Christina Anderson. Melissa Seigler.

Tiffany begrudgingly getting it right. Tiffany Rennolds. Erica Para. Kat Hiden. I said she donated like three times. Wow. Thank you so much. Kyle McGovern, Jessica Rooker, Colin Boyle, Chris Brown, Jason Demayo, Joseph Mercal boy Addie Swann or Chris Turner. What Turner. Neil. Liz Hernandez. Jennifer Cabala. Kubla Taylor would no last name Alexa or or Erica.

Erika probably with an accent like like a pornographic female character. Alexa lot of rock hard Fenice Aaron would no last name. Teddy what. Teddy O'Donovan. Kathy Heffelfinger. I think you know how Austin Zoey Ashley Brill flocco would no last name. Kyle Bingham. Kathy I said that Charlotte Brooks carry on a Guerard. Carly What. Reginette More Mortlock What. Husaini Ashley Colpeper done. No, that's David Heller. Molly Joe Rosen. Princess Bright eyes as easy as fuck it up.

David Heller. Ashley Colpeper. I said that Laura Clark, Hunter Bresnik and his girlfriend Sarah Siriano. Quenton what is this. Quentin Kirkham. David Ruys, Sol Rivera, Bambam Kim West, Connie Spencer below Balin. I don't know if that's a W well, Tyson Bone. Chris Red Mike would no last name. Jonathan Bitti. Vincent Bernado. Leon Vincent. Yes, Leon Leon Young. Kimberly Provost What Pronovost Sierra Jussara Pixie de Leon, thank you so much.

She has sent a nice email. Also Adam Walsh, Steven Dunlap, Sarah Randolph, Heidi and Morgan Krieger. Ashley, hurry, hurry. Caitlin Crane, Bubba Wilson, Steven Check. Helen Larson. Megan would no last name beriberi. Doug Brown, David Barber, Shelby Kluver, Lisa Atkinson, Shelley Chapman, Darcy Moore, Shawn Huss. Andrew would no last name. Carly Smith. Jennifer Parker, Coby Niekerk. I think Emily Gold Goldsworthy. Oh boy.

Amanda Murphy. Chantelle Lochley. Probably Heather Stone.

I'm sure it's Heather's positive you had a miracle too. You had Angela. Absolutely. Leah Howard and Andrew Couch, Kevin Fitzpatrick, Lori, handsome son of his and Jim's daughter, Lori Hansen. Christopher Scott, Sherry. Venus Gilbert. Ashley Byrnes. Rain Hooper, Home Stretch, Jodie Andrews', Louise Wood. Happy birthday, Kim ologist Crystal Lamay and Melissa Raef. Wow. Happy birthday. Wow. Fuck. Kenneth Kenneth Hammond.

Adam Meir's s SNOP. Yeah, that's just s no last name, but Yashiro is part of the email. So I didn't I wanted to at least give him some credit, but they gave us nothing but an access and Norvelle Tonya Pool. Liz Farquaad took pity on you honestly and I made it worse. Caitlin Hanrahan. Thomas Smith. Ashley Veoh. Martina Leili Wollongong. Martina Holly Polaski. Nope. That's William Kameido, Norman Farr, Nat Cole, Sterling, Marcellus fucking Shannon.

Or maybe it's Shannon Hero. I'm not sure. I don't know anymore. It could be anything. It could be shenanigans. It could be crazy. Jason White, Peyton Meadows, Carrie Moralez Vasquez, Kevin Pesters, Ivan Lee Griffin, Marzin Dorper. Jennifer Baird, Andrew Sullivan, Mary Robinson, Julia Cloudera, our Susan Ologists. Amanda, nice meeting with great people. Unbelievable stutt. Stacy, Halsy, Sarah, Dr. Foxe, Mindy, good for you.

Hey, Steve said that Jennifer Stevens, Hector Grimshaw, Didi Beltz, Janice Hildes, Rachel Morrison, Neil would no last name. Adam Lomax. Bernie sked clearly Neil's kin.

Oh, that was Neil Lomax.

Yeah. The quarterback of the Cardinals, Bernie, that weekend. I know you're talking about to go to Harrington. Steven Poe. Alan Edgar is your Alex Sanchez. Great, great, great grandson, Nathaniel Plass. Sarah Eriksen over there. And where she at? I think she's an Arkansas Eriksen. I don't know Norway Rabbi Shmuley. All of it. I don't know. Rhonda George Marcus White, Sarah Pixie donated twice. Garrett Phelps, Brendan Abels, Elizabeth Bercow, Rebecca Hendricks.

Kendall passed Moore. Where did I go over here? God damn it, Ashley would no last name. Regina Amond. Kim Kim Capelin. I think David Jackson, Ashley T, Heather Kelly, Kyle Warez. Stephanie Maffia. I think big jlr g. He's large. Don't forget Lisa with no last name and Benjamin Ortiz and all of our Patrón supporters. You guys are amazing.

Thank you so much everybody. Honestly you guys are amazing. Everybody out there. Thank you for everything you do for us. You have really made our lives much better, just changed our lives for the better and we can't thank you enough for it. And what if they wanted to get a hold of you and say thank you? How could they possibly do that? I'm on social media. Is it even possible, Jimmy, is it possible to find you?

I'm on social media. You can find me. I'm I'm around. And Drake Levin's mom found me. Oh, and it's his birthday cake. We met him in in Charlotte. Well, happy birthday. So I remember social anxiety. Oh, yeah. That's great, kid. Yeah. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. Thanks for being with us, Alex. All Thank you, buddy. It's I just really appreciate you guys truly. And it's fucking shocking that we've built something like this.

And to have an audience hence this involved is incredible. So thank you.

We love you guys. Thank you. James, you know how to work social media. My name's there and you just copy and paste it, you'll figure it out. That's set, everybody.

By the way, this is Episode one ninety eight oh one ninety nine is next week, which I believe is Thanksgiving is which nobody cares anyway.

And then the week after that is our two 100th episode. You bet your balls that's going to be a burner there. That's going to be a good one. That's unbelievable. It's going to be hot. Hot. That's crazy, man. We're not going to stop there and we're going to keep going. Keep going every single week and until next week. Everybody, it's been our pleasure.

My.