#206 - Why Charles Manson Wasn't In "Friends" - Moses Lake, WashingtonSmall Town Murder
- 1,473 views
- 14 Jan 2021
This week, in Moses Lake, Washington, the dynamic in a group of young friends becomes very weird, when everyone decides to live in a one room apartment together. The problem is, some are runaways, one is pregnant, some are just plain dumb, and one claims to be a 19 year old Mafia hitman & high Satanic priest, named "Shadowlord". This all leads to a disturbingly brutal crime & even more inept cover up!
Along the way, we find out that not all of Washington state is rainy, that teenagers can flip their whole image on a dime, and that you shouldn't have 10th graders help you cover up a murder!!
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This week in Moses Lake, Washington, the dynamic in a group of young friends turns very dark very quickly and the results are an absolute horror.
Welcome to small town murder.
Hello, everybody, and welcome back to small town murder. Yeah, indeed, Jimmy. Yeah, indeed. My name is James Patrick. I'm here with my co-host, Jimmy Weitzman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us. We are excited, as always, to give you terrible stories. Odd as that sounds, when you hear the show, it makes sense. So thanks for joining us, everybody. The news, it's camouflaged with it anyway.
What the hell? So thank you very much, everybody. Crazy story as usual this week. And if you didn't hear last week, you should probably go back and listen to that one, because it was we're on a run of some weird stuff. And this week, again, very odd story and some crazy stuff going on. And just quickly before we get started, first of all, Apple podcast, Purple Icon, give us five stars. It helps a lot and we don't know why.
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A murder story actually next week for on. That is one of those stories. You know, we have those stories where someone dies and you go that good?
Yeah, I don't like that person anyway. You know, those victimless crimes when a person's a monster and you're like, wow.
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Quickly, the disclaimer, this is a comedy show. There's murders that happen, terrible murders, all the horror, horrible stories. They happen all over the world. We talk about some of them. We're going to make jokes about things. Now, that sounds weird. I get it. If you're if you're new to this, you're going to go, wow, that's strange. You're going to talk about a murder and then make jokes about it. Yes.
But trust us on this. There's a lot of weird stuff that goes on around murders. And we don't we go out of our way not to talk about the victims or the victims families because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. You have it. That's it. We talk about that. We talk about small towns. Don't be offended by anything about a small town. We're doing this because we would make fun of where we're from. Harder. Yeah, that's just it's a roast.
It's fun. That's we've never been to these places. We don't know. We go by what people say and it's funny. So lighten up and joke about it. It's a good time. If that all sounds good to you, we are going to have a blast. And I think it's time I think it's time to sit back and clear the lungs and shout, shut up and give me Marda.
Let's do this. All right, let's do it.
Let's go on a trip, shall we? Hear that head out. We're heading out from the East Coast, obviously. Where were we in New Hampshire where you are now, you know?
No, not New Hampshire. Yes. Now, we were in New Hampshire that when we were in North Carolina, New Jersey last week, and it was a new state. So New Jersey, let's go clear across the country. Terrific. All the way out to Washington State. Oh, boy, it's been a while and it's always fun. We're in the Pacific North. The special kind of weird in the Pacific North really breeds some some interesting facts for murder.
Some strange stuff going on out there. Let me tell you here, this is Moses Lake Washington, which I've never heard of before. It is in central Washington, kind of dead center. What goes on in there? You don't hear anything about that in Washington.
You hear about the coast.
Yeah, and then the border. And then what's another town on the other Spokane. That one here it exists. You don't hear anything actually about it other than it's close to Idaho. Tacoma, that's Seattle. It's what I'm saying is everywhere you think of wet and foresty, this isn't like that. This is like a desert place. It's weird to two hours and 50 minutes to Seattle. So almost. Three hours an hour and 40 minutes to Spokane to the east and then four hours to Shelton, Washington, which was episode one.
Fifty two a.m. and yeah, January 1st, twenty twenty, I believe that was the Scarlet Haubert episode is possible. I believe so, yeah. So that's, that's a wild beast.
And, and then the oh the Job Corps murders were there to Oregon jogger murders. Specific person. Yeah that's true. I mean it's weird stuff up there. This is in Grant County area code five nine. It's a big area. Twenty one square miles. There's some water in there. Lake and because it's Lake Moses, obviously.
So piece of that history real quick, not as rainy as you'd imagine. Washington State, you just picture constant rain here. Yeah, just everything's got green shit. Basically, it looks like Ireland. Yeah. Yeah. The worms, those grass slugs they've got are so big. It's weird. They're gross. It's so wet. It looks like goose shit. Yeah. It's alive. It's so wet. Yeah. Here.
Not at all. The average precipitation here is under eight inches a year. It's, it's the desert. Yeah. It never rains. It's evenly distributed throughout the year. It's not like, you know, seasons and all that time. No. But it's basically in the midsummer sometimes you'll go a month, six weeks without rain. So in Seattle that never happens, obviously. So it's, you know, that sort of thing here. Now, before the construction of the big dam on the Columbia River near here, they and also they built the Moses Lake Army Air Base in nineteen forty two.
Well, obviously the Native Americans knew the area as Hopa.
Oh. Which meant Willo. Yeah I guess. Yeah. Chief Moses was the leader of the tribe around here. There you go. And he was forced to negotiate with the settlers quote unquote, who began to settle in the 80s under pressure from the government. He traded the Columbia Basin land for a reservation that stretched from the Lake Shore, challenged Challan North to the US Canada border to trade it. And all the river bay, all this basin land here.
The area, Columbia. Yeah, I guess so. Sounds like it. So, yeah, that's kind of what happens here. So the new settlers in honor of this, you know, forced gesture, they named it after a while, they named it Moses.
Like, is that a sheep and is that an honor or is that an insult? That's what I mean. I don't know what it is. But if somebody stole your car from you and then called the James Mobile James.
Right. It's yeah, I might be pissed off at that. They're not happy about that. It looks like the James tonight's real big honor. Thanks, assholes.
So the city was originally named Nebel after a town in Germany where one of the settlers had lived. The first settlers, first settlers had fisheries and farms and all that sort of thing. They were exporting carp, carp, jack rabbits and fruit grows. That's that was what this place was. The carp, carp, the bottom feeders don't even eat that. I was going to say I don't know what they're doing with carp, so I suppose you can I guess back then eat whatever you can get.
It's exporting jackrabbits. Do we want you know, I don't think. Eat jackrabbits, do you? I don't know. I guess there's more meat. I suppose they look gross the anyway.
And we are pretty athletic. I don't know. Yeah they are fast. I think they want to eat now. We like eating a tiny greyhound. They don't want to eat. That sounds disgusting right.
Am I wrong here. I don't want that. So irrigation attempts failed and the settlers would leave. They'd come try to irrigate. Didn't work. They take off. So this has happened multiple times in this area. The town was incorporated and named Lake Moses ah Moses Lake in nineteen thirty eight. At that point there was three hundred two people here, so nobody was here. And then the air base came in and then they got, they, you know, the army figured out how to pump water and because you know, they're good at that.
Right. Yeah they want water, they're getting water. They'll get resources. The military. Yeah. Whereas if you're trying to irrigate your farm it might not work. So they ended up pumping off of here and then people started coming because now there's water and so they started fishing. There's a place to water sheep and cattle now all that sort of shit, and became a kind of a hub for this area of the central state.
I guess Evel Knievel lived here for a long time. Right. Which is a strange stat.
I thought that was so weird. I had to mention it. The stunt guy cleared out like white trash.
Superman is what he said. We will do a bonus episode on him for crying. Oh, I'm coming up very bad my next couple of months. So that's another patriotic. I think you guys are going to want hear anybody that grew up wearing Dukes of Hazard t shirts loved him. So, yeah, he was a kids, loved him in the snow. Isn't that weird because he did crazy. Yeah. They're like, whoa, I want to jump up Canyon on a motorcycle.
But some kids were real excited about jump. Thirty seven cars for no reason. The kids would be like, I have a dirt bike, I can't jump thirty seven cars on it. But maybe I could if I. I worked at it. Neither can Evel Knievel. He never landed anything, he always he always jumped up and then broke his body. His main his main talent was survival.
That was his diet, because it was like exercising in his talent. It's the doctors threw himself out of an airplane and landed. It's like, what a stunt. No, it wasn't a stunt. It didn't work at all. He just didn't die. That's why it's not tragic. Everything just stayed together.
He had he had broken inside there. What he was doing was a zero sum game. It was if I survive, I did a good job. That's it. If I don't die, I'm here. I win. It's like up.
If you order a mirror and it's still all the pieces are in the box, it's all still in there. So we when we did it, that's done. That was his flight. But the public was cool with that. Essentially what he did, a hero show inside is broken apart. They'd show him in the hospital bed, totally broken into body parts, just giving one thumbs up like and they'd be like sea legs. They are bone not broken.
It's the one that matters. What's your next jump idea? And he's like, I'm thinking maybe they weld me back together.
A snake can be like, The fuck are you talking about? I heard of the Snake River. It's so I mean, a case of PBR. Yeah. So for some reason this was a turn to this place was attractive to him for a long time. BMW as a giant factory there. I guess they make electric cars there. There's a bunch of factories here actually of different companies. ConAgra has a place here. There's some paper place also. There's a bunch of that kind of shit, low taxes for their industry, I guess.
I suppose I have some reviews. The town, obviously. And once again, disclaimer on these. We didn't write these these or other people wrote them. And I'm reading them to you. I mean, so when you complain, complain to them, not to me. Don't say you guys don't know. We don't. We're reading what other people said.
That's the point. So it is shocking that somebody could go the reviews that they wrote. Now, what we know now, if I wrote them, they'd be better.
I'd make them even funnier because I you know, it would have a lot to them. One star. This is all about the food. This is one of those very focused ones. One star. There is no mall here. Oh, well, goddammit, no national chains like Olive Garden, Red Lobster or Applebee's. That sounds like a blessing. That sounds great.
No Olive Garden in town. Oh, damn. Yeah. Jesus. And only two.
Taco Bell's only two Taco Bell you need.
How many Taco Bell's do you need? When you hear the population, you're going to go, yeah, that's enough tacos for you. How many you need, how much tacos to McDonald's.
Yeah, to Arby's. To Arby's. What town has to Arby's I get to. You're telling me that Arby's is selling at the same rate as tacos at in this fucking point. What a weird town. I am shocked how I've never seen a line at that place. Now no one's there are two of them. Why are they still open?
And also and they have five subways. Good law. That's a lot.
One might be in a gas station off the highway, one over here, but still five subways and three Starbucks, no Wendy's, no chicken places except KFC.
That has the worst service. It's a chicken place, but they have the worst service.
According to this person, there is nowhere to shop at Wal-Mart. This town supports twenty five thousand people. And we can't get none of these things here. If you like Mexican food, this is the place to live because that is all we have here. Somebody is done with the rice and beans. Yeah, they are. They have had their fill. That is wild. Next one, one star. This town is very small, racist and bigoted.
Oh, too much.
Once again, not for from that's not a judgment to say a person saying they could be right. They could be completely wrong. We have no idea.
Just read someone else's words out loud. That's it. I mean, it's literally a review that's not ours. Too much crime, a huge drug problem. A lot of teen pregnancy. Well, it sounds like utopia over there. This is awful crime, drugs and pregnant teenagers. This is terrible. The races is the drug and drug addicts and they're fucking breeding.
They're knocked up when they're very young. The schools are too crowded. The jobs don't pay well, even with a degree. People are not friendly. The nearest airport is hours away. The city politics are crooked and do not allow growth due to, quote, old money. The medical care is horrible and everyone ends up in Spokane or Seattle.
There is no decent shopping unless you want to go, quote, downtown and pay up the ass for subpar crap and a condescending attitude. Jesus have to say up the ass, work on this, isn't it? Pay out the ass. No, I know it's not there right up the ass in this town because this is a in this town. That's the that's the complaint. Normally pay out the ass. This town, you have to pay up the ass.
It's much more difficult. I understand why they're complaining. Yeah. I give it one start too. I only had twenty dollars so I had to pay up the I had to pay it right up the ass man. I paid for the rest of it.
Here's a here's another one, one star gets one, had a lot of one star reviews this town, a lot of one and two stars, poor and terrible, tiny little town, overrun with crazy religious racist weirdos who seem to be passing around the same half past brain, probably half assed.
They mean it's a crapshoot. Who has it at the moment? Oh, OK. They're trying to make a joke. This is a great bunch of dummies. I don't know who's carrying the vibe generally, least not much for jobs.
Everywhere here pays minimum wage, pays minimum regardless of the position of the CEO. Sorry. Sorry, you're making ten fifty an hour. We're sorry, ma'am. We we can't we can't possibly provide you health insurance. The business around a business around here have the worst customer service ever. Well, that's due for bad customer service is their position as well. Where else are you going to go?
I mean, there's two Taco Bell's. I'll go to the other side.
I go to the other Arby's. They make a better beef and cheddar. Anyway, there are five subways. The drug, the drugs and gangs are equal to that of an actual city.
Not this little pawn dunk. I think they mean Fogdog. Yeah. Horndog sixteen square mile dust ball of a town. Jesus porn dunk. That'll be a better town probably. Yeah. Sounds hot. Hahn dunk Washington like. Well what goes on there. That's interesting. Jesus Christ. Let's see, here's two stars. They liked it better. I'd say the positive for last year a lot of petty crime and gang activity for being a small town. Also, this area has some real issues with methamphetamine production and use a boy.
Schools are subpar and overcrowded. That's due for that. And aside from outdoor activities, there's very little to do without driving two hours on the upside. There are a lot of sunny days, tons of lakes and cost of living is pretty low for Washington state. Traffic is good as well.
All come to about eighty five percent of America. You just described America, Chief. That's everything. That's pretty much everywhere. Yeah. And then there's another one that's two stars that they like it also. And they say there's a lot of homeless people and drugs in this town and they would not recommend walking outside at night or walking alone through the town.
You know, I'm starting to feel in terms of the theme of these reviews is that everybody, James, every person on Earth wants seventy five degrees and the beach. And if it doesn't have it and all the fast, oh, your reviews are going to suffer. And every fast food restaurant, more than two Allsopp, at least three gardens, at least three. He kidding me. So this place went from having three hundred people in nineteen forty to over 11000 in nineteen sixty.
Oh. So it just blew up once they got water. Yes. That's how that worked right now. Twenty two thousand thirty eight people and two Arby's. Thank you. U.S. Army. Eleventh hour. Eleven thousand people per hour. That's, that's way too many Arabs. Think about Phoenix. There's like four million people. Yeah. How many Arabs would that have to be if it's eleven thousand people per hour? I'll bet there's a heaven in Phoenix.
We'd have hundreds of Arby's here on that rate. Well, I want the math done on the map. We get like half a million per Arby's here. Yeah, that's what I mean. Find out the number of Arby's as opposed to the population in the Portland area. They are killing it the most. Arby's per capita possibly on earth right here. I think maybe it's possible.
I swear to God, twenty two thousand thirty eight people up ninety six percent and probably a whole Arby's since nineteen ninety female population is way higher than male here. It's like fifty four percent all out of whack, which is weird for a population that high. A lot of kids under for a lot of people over eighty five. Oh. So either the eighty five year olds are very frisky or something else is happening right around eighty one. That's when they start pumping up.
That's when you get viral again. It's like going thank you Viagra. A dead body has a rager and then they calm down and then there's a second record. Right. And so that's how that works. I think that's what that is. You're very sterile, you're very virile and you're going to impotency. And then you're back and it's back.
It's back again. If you make it to 80 bo drop eighty rock art.
How they. I'm just virile. Yeah. Just by sperm count through the roof. So race of this town, it's about sixty percent white, which is right about the national average. That's like sixty one and a half, one point five percent black. That, that's well above the national average, two point one percent Asian, which is low for Washington state and low for the national average to as a matter of fact, one percent Native American, which is actually high for the US and thirty three point three percent Hispanic.
So, yeah, it's a lot lot going on there in terms of diversity, I guess, as well. Not really. It's pretty much just white, Mexican, white or Mexican. It's like, yeah, it's like anywhere in the West except not on the very, very coast anywhere west of, say, Oklahoma. Yeah, pretty much forty point eight percent of the people here are religious. So that's less than the fifty fifty norm. And nothing.
Seventeen percent can. But you got a third Hispanic, so that's going to make up for that or everybody else is pretty mixed evenly, nine percent LDS. I was going to say there's probably a lot of Mormon going to get that. And zero point zero percent Jewish, though not not having that at all. So no Hava Nagila this week. It's too close to Utah. They're not interested there. I guess so. I think the Jewish people may not be interested in living there.
Yeah, that's that's the way I meant it. And that came out wrong. So anyway, by unemployment rate here is high.
It's about double the national average for what it was in the beginning of the year anyway. The household income, though, is decent here. It's the rest of the country. Fifty seven and a half thousand dollars here. It's forty almost fifty thousand forty nine thousand eight hundred. So pretty close to the national average. Not terrible. A lot of manufacturing jobs, but I saw a lot of the reviews. They said the jobs come and go. Really, though not seasonal.
But like the manufacturer, manufacturing plants will hire a bunch of people for certain projects and then, like, lay a bunch of them off and then bring them back. So it's not a real steady thing where you just have a job and you're going to work in this plant for 30 years, almost gig economy for production kind of. Sometimes they'll close for a while, opened back up for, you know, whatever. So cost of living. One hundred is average.
Here it is. Eighty five. Not that bad. Housing's an eighty four. So I mean pretty, you know, not bad. Median home cost one hundred ninety three thousand four hundred dollars. So affordable a lot of houses between one hundred and two hundred thousand. And if we've convinced you I don't know how, I don't know how. But you need to be here when you want. You need to get you know why, you know, waiting at Arby's, that's just wide open.
You want the highest Arby's per capita in the United States. We have for you the Moses Lake Washington real estate report.
Your average two bedroom rental here goes for seven hundred ninety three dollars, which is well below the national average. That's usually like twelve hundred. So that's not bad. I found a three bedroom, two bath, twelve hundred ninety six square foot house. It's not great. Let me be honest with you. It's a need some work. Right. You could live there, but here it's the insides pretty. The floors are weird. It's not great but it's fine.
One hundred fifty four thousand nine hundred bucks. So if you needed that to get in there, that's your lowest point of entry. That's not like a trailer. Basically, I found some of those to found a four bedroom, two bath.
Twenty seven hundred eighty four square foot house. Sounds good. That's big. It's weird. Yeah it is fucking green.
I bet it was added on a lot. Right. Probably the weird. It's green and I'm not talking like a forest green or like a Kelly Green. It's like a Crayola green. No, it's like a weird like a like a light green.
Yeah. Like a split pea soup green. It's Yeah.
Kind of. It's a very odd green. Not nice. Two hundred fifty nine thousand nine hundred bucks for that answer and a couple of gallons of paint.
Yeah. And then I found four bedroom, three bath. Thirty eight hundred and sixty eight square foot. Very nice big outdoor brick oven thing in the back which nice patty. Probably a pizza oven I think it is. It's the new thing. People are dying now. It's called boy you could see it from the side. I couldn't tell what it was but over an acre of land. Very nice. Nine hundred sixty seven thousand dollars that you're paying for it.
If you want to get something half four thousand square feet, though, it's a big house. Yeah, it's a big house. Yeah. It's it's it's a really nice house. It's kind of kind of farty on the inside.
But a million dollars million dollars you're going to want to redo the kitchen.
So that's it's bad things to do. Yeah. That's not a lot going on here. Here's one. This is the what is this. The Lake. Moses Lake Spring Festival. Yeah. This is they love this shit. I'm bringing on the fun and Moses Lake. It says I'm here. Come on, come join one of Moses Lakes biggest, most spectacular event of the year. Event of the year. Come on, guys. Events put the sun there, the Moses Lake Spring Festival.
There is always something to see or do. Watch the three on three basketball tournament.
That's what I want to watch. I want to watch the fucking people who live in rural Washington play three on three basketball with each other. Probably a lot of talent there, I imagine. I need the night shift of Taco Bell playing the night shift of Arby's.
Yeah, it's no thank you. Oh, man. It's the beef and shatters are play in the chalupa. This is amazing. I can't wait to watch the gorditas see if the combo can fucking defend its title is gonna be awesome. Can't wait.
Oh the five four five roast beef supply in the end is the most disgusting offer on earth. That's not. I don't want any of that. I don't want any of that free admission.
Free live music. Let the kids play at the carnival and watch the Spring Fest Lip Sync competition. Oh boy. Lip Sync.
Koppa Lips. What competition is that talent. Fuck you, I guess to perform. But either way you're lip. Thinking of two people, both, in other words, to the songs, I mean, I think it's time you got all the words right. Yay, good job. What the fuck is that? It's like it's like having an air guitar competition, but worse, it's so stupid. Or just walk around and see it all. You got to take off the tournament, the lip synching out of it.
You don't want to miss a minute of that song.
Oh, my God, how dumb. Oh, my God. They got to really dig deeper than this. This is all just garbage. That's yeah. It's free. So it's free admission and free parking. I'm going to charge you for that. Don't forget to grab some great food and drink. Oh, boy. And they also have the oh my God. The Spring Festival kiddie parade, which sounds just horrible.
Yeah. And just after we do the show for two one two hundred episodes, I just picture as a murderous pedophile in Saigon which one of my picking out for later I picture a road lined with dudes and lawn chairs.
And they just don't break your fucking sling blade and goes, yeah, I want me that one in the third row. What's your name. What's your name sweetheart.
No, disgusting. Then there's the Freedom Feste which scared me a little too. You never know. But it's the 4th of July thing now. So it's like, OK, well that makes sense.
How did the word freedom become so fucking insulting? So have I become specific to like people are going to be armed? That's the zone. I hate that word heavily, not even a little bit. There's a food truck rodeo. I hope that means it's just food trucks. I hope they're not competing in some sort of movement.
Can get your lasso around the smokestack and that diesel. Oh, maybe use some doors then and it's all you can eat if you can lasso up the smokestack, farmers market food truck, radio and car and bike show, vendor market beer and wine garden. Then the live music starts. Oh yeah. Five thirty pm when all the good music starts with cruise control coming on opening night. Oh baby. And then from eight to ten closing out the show, the Sonic Funk Orchestra closing everything out with a big fireworks display.
Oh baby sounds amazing. Crime rate in this town. Property almost double. Yeah. So they weren't lying. And the reviews of a lot of shit being stolen and then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is pretty much right at double real.
So, yeah, it's there's some shit going on. What is happening? I think it's meth. Yeah, I think that's just the area you look at. I'm not we don't know, but I'd look at this area and go like, oh, this probably if you drove by. Here you go. I bet there's meth and there seems like Kingman to me. Yeah. Seems like Kingman, Washington kind of comparing it to Arizona. James, I drove by Whitman the other day because we were talking about it in the reviews of Homicide.
I drove by. There was a house that was boarded up that said not for sale. We think it's not for sale. We live here. Oh, my God, that's not abandoned. That's what that says. Not for sale. We go squatting, boarded up.
What the fuck is happening?
America. That's Whittman. Everybody. That's that's that's Arizona right there.
That tells you what's happening. Whitman it's all drugs. And that's probably what's happening in this town. It's got to be a similar situation. I guess what I mean, I'm sure there's a nice part. I'm sure. That said, let's talk about a murder, OK? I can't wait. Let's do this. We'll go back in time a little bit here. Let's let's go back let's go back to October 15th.
Nineteen eighty six. Nineteen eighty six. That's a it's a good year. I think so. Vehicles. No fancy vehicles. You know the eighty suck doesn't say what is it a good year for. Except that the Giants won the Super Bowl, which is really cool. Outside of that I can't think of another good thing is happening.
There was no war happening yet. I mean, it didn't kick off for a few more years. It was a good peaceful time.
You know, in the Cold War, still Russia and peaceful times, we tend to we tend to get real relaxed with every.
Oh, we do each other right out. Yeah. Had those cool, creative, cool claymation videos came out. Remember that. Now, Peter Gabriel had that song. Yes. Sledgehammer hit the Land of Confusion or whatever it was that Phil Collins. That's one of the things that they both do.
They both do it. I don't know. They were both in Genesis. That's all I know. It doesn't matter. Eighty six. Let's talk about him. It was a good video. That's interesting. So October 15th, nineteen eighty six. OK, there is a young man, a high school student named Robert Neverson. Yeah. And on this particular day he heads up to the Grant County Sheriff's Office and walks in.
He's got something interesting to tell them that they probably don't hear. Every day he walks in and says, hi, I'm Robert. There's a body buried by Moses Lake, buried, buried. I know about a body that's buried, basically walked in and said went to see a dead body.
And officer. I saw a great movie.
Yeah. And so he. They were like, are you it's a kid, it's not. So they were kind of like bullshit, you know, the first day they go through it because they don't believe him at first, honestly find this. And so he says, no, I know where it is. I've been heard where it was. I'll take you there like I know exactly what somebody told me it was. So if you want to go check it out, come with me.
Police say find somebody, go with this fucking kid and go look. They look and oh, boy, what do they find? They find in a very, very shallow grave near the lake and some bushes, they find the body of a young woman and they can't tell. The age appears to be somewhere between, say, 16 and twenty four somewhere in that area, young lady. And she has been quite through the wringer. There's some serious decomposition happening.
And from what they can tell right away, she's definitely been beaten and stabbed a lot.
Like a lot. This is the whole thing. This is a particularly brutal thing that they have seen that they found here. And yeah, so they find this body and they don't know who the hell it is, though. That's the only thing. It's not really identifiable except through this person isn't except through dental records. So they're going to try and figure out who that is while they're doing that. Let's go back a little bit of time to the 70s.
Talk about some people noticed earlier in eighty six. Let's talk about some people here.
You've hit that midday slump. I need a pick me up. Imagine if you worked 30 percent less, you'd be getting ready to come home. Now, I'm sorry we can't shorten your working day. I Cadbury dairy milk. Thirty percent less sugar. Your favorite music stream should help Cadbury dairy milk, 30 percent less sugar just as irresistable. Well, they're doing that. That is October of eighty six. Keep that in mind. So let's talk about a young lady named Oh look at this.
Her name. I forgot about this at the time. I was so excited not to know its embargo.
OK? Yes, e. OK, but they call her kind of like I Carly I guess except E embargo. But they call her Margaux. But her. Well yeah. Her official name is Margot I guess embargo and Westermann is your name with a fucking T stuck in there. Tim W.H astm. Yeah. That's Dan Westman. Mickey Westman is her.
She hated it too. So she hyphenated. No, no. Westmount Westminister last name. Her name is Amargosa on Westermann. But even though she's only 18, her married name is Mickey. So she's just added the mickey. She goes by Margot Mickey. She hung on to the Listman. No, no, no, no. She goes by Margot. Mickey, but that's her. She was originally Margot and whispered, OK, and now she's Margot.
Mickey got it. So by an eighty six, she's Margot. Mickey, maiden name Westermann.
Lucky woman could change it. There you go. Here she is right here.
You can see her. It's the newspaper picture. So you can see there she is young. Yeah. So that's like a high school senior picture her obviously. So she's got like a dress on and you could tell. Yeah. Some, some eighty six are going on now Margot.
All through high school, all through her life here. She has a kind of a tragic she's got a tragic thing here. Her parents are dead. Oh yeah. So that's a rough thing. She has a she has a family that raises her and they go when she was twelve. OK, so not good one died when she was twelve, another died another time. Separate incident separate and one had cancer. I think she's she's had it tough. But through it all she has been I mean, you can see her, she looks pretty straight laced, you know what I mean?
She's like she's a straight a student churchgoing girl, very much like, you know, into the family. A tragedy like that will make kids go one of two ways to. But that's what'll happen. Yeah. They'll either go crazy and go out and find all the meth they can or you lace up your shoes and do the right thing or. Yeah, exactly. Or you might go the complete opposite, trying to and also to. If you have new parents like that, you're probably trying to please them because you don't want them to go away.
Because in your in your fucked up psychology kid brain, you think something you did made your parents die, right? That's what everybody think. Your parents get divorced. I must have fucking did that.
Or at minimum, it just taught you that parents are certainly temporary. Exactly the least, you know, I mean, whether or not they die or just you never know. Yeah. They don't necessarily stick around. So be nice and hopefully they'll stay around. Yes. I think that's maybe her psychology. I'm not positive obviously, but yeah. Churchgoing, straight-A student. She goes to Moses Lake High and she is her main goal in life is to do really well in school, get good grades and get the fuck out of, like Moses Lake.
That is her goal. I am going to get out of here, go to college somewhere else and move away from this shithole is the way she thinks of life. So that's yeah. It's no matter where you're from, if it's a nice even if it's from a nice place, you want to leave there for a while, you should leave, you should see something and then figure out where you want to be. So you can't just say this is the best place ever and you've never been anywhere else.
Right. Because you don't know. Have no clue. You have no clue. It might be the best place you might leave and then go home and move back there somewhere some day. That was the best place. Who knows?
But you should at least leave if you leave and you find somewhere else and you realize that's not better than. Yeah, at least you know that this place is not the worst point. Exactly.
At least you know now. Thank you. So, yeah, she wanted to she lived in Moses Lake her whole life and she just wanted out and not even like she hated it. She just wanted to leave. It's a small area kind of by itself. Yeah. I'm sure if you're a kid it's got to feel claustrophobic after a while. So I would understand. So there's not a lot for kids to do here either. Just in the eighties we're talking there's about ten thousand people here.
So I mean, they they might have only had one Arby's, Gemmy.
That's how that's how tragic this could have been. And it's very difficult times. I mean, probably to Taco Bell still. But one Arby's, I mean, not a lot to do.
And they run out of even Gedda's. They're going to run out of beef. And Chatter's if you only have one Arby's with ten thousand people, they're going to bum rush the place, obviously, for five.
How many out of ten thousand people how many people could you expect to want Arby's on a daily basis?
I guess if you if you bet on one hundred people eating there an entire day, maybe they put it from open to close. Maybe they have one like right by a factory, two for lunch. Well, that didn't pay the bills. That's what I mean. I don't know. Arby's is a lot of lights on that signs bright. There's a lot of shit going on. It takes a lot of lectures, people running around back their stupid hats on.
There's got to be something going microwave for your quote unquote meat, whatever that slurry.
There's no way they make that on a grill. Right.
That compressed air is it warms. And I'm making on a grill, I assume, in a bag and water might not even like a Suvi, just the warm water get in there.
Yeah, warm. And that's what they do at Taco Bell. Really? It's in a bag and water. It's in a bag. And then you put it in the thing in the tin. It's in water. It's gross. Yeah. It's a heated thing. Yeah. Yeah. That's why have just big frozen bag. You know, that's how places do do sauces to just stick it in the stainless pan that's in water and it heats it all day.
The same water that holds it. It's not touching the water but that's still gross.
It's still gross. So not a lot of shit to do. One of the teachers from Moses Lake High at this point, she said, quote, Take somebody who doesn't like school and they're kind of lost. There's nothing else to do with school. So if yeah, if you're not into school and school activities and grades, you go home and you sit there and there ain't shit to do. This is pre Internet, pre everything. This is once a year.
You get a carnival. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. You get to go to the spring festival and watch the kiddie parade if you're a pervert from the cruise control. Yeah, that's it.
So there are some people around here, unlike Margot, who does like school and she she, she just wants to do everything she can to get out of here. And she she sees the path of how to do that. So she's going with it.
There are a couple of people here who don't like school will say and one's a year older than her and one's about two years older than her. A couple of young guys from town who are not real in the school. I get the more the burnt out variety and we'll talk about here these two hour checking. Yeah, I mean, you could see these two guys and they look like they share a TransAm, don't they? Right.
Like like a beat up top TransAm that they does that one have that shitty Jack Jack mustache. And I'm talking about like, is that a mustache on his face. I think he's got a real like shitty like Bermas. Adams Yeah. And then it's a bad mustache. Dude's blond is bald, boysie. You can't even see his hair. Look, it looks like a ghost, like there's like an aura thing around him, like his face just showed his face.
And as somebody guesses their color, you just go, oh, blonde, obviously.
Is this is that Ric Flair. So this is Steven S.. Whelchel w h e l c h e l Steven C. Well Charlie's born in nineteen sixty six. He's nineteen almost twenty at this point in time. He is dark hair, stupid smirk and shitty beard. Right. That's a shitty beard guy. And then Jerry McKee, he's about two years older, he's about twenty one at this point. He is this idiot here with the blond hair and the, the Ric Flair hair.
It's his last name.
Mickey. See Mickey. Mickey. So Jerry. Mickey, Stephen Whelchel. Yeah. So, OK, now they are high school dropouts. They're from this area and they're the exact person the teacher was talking about.
If you don't like school, there's nothing else to do except drop out and sit in your fucking trailer and get into drugs or get into whatever, because honestly, there isn't is even like you could go get a bunch of jobs at that point. There isn't really anywhere to work here at this point except at the new Arby's that just opened up a second location.
Thank God they're about to need a sandwich, are going to need some help. There's five of the 17 hour subways and fifteen Starbucks, something I don't remember. A lot of them was it was out number and everything else.
Five. Yeah, twenty. That's amazing. That is that is twenty two thousand people. That's that's wild. That's like four thousand thirty five hundred people per subway. That's, that's awesome. It's so much. Think about how many subways there to be in Phoenix. I need the math of the subway and RB content to Phoenix someone. It was the number one store, fast food in the country for a while. So I'll bet. I'll bet in Phoenix.
I'll bet there's fifty. I'll bet there is.
There's more than that probably. You think so? Yeah. Maybe because we knew a guy who owned like twenty. Did you. Yeah, tonight we did. Do I know him. Yes. I don't wait.
Yeah we do. He gave us a gift. Oh that guy. I don't remember. I have a it's like a crystal. Never mind. It's a crystal subway. It's it's a crystal subway sandwich. Yes I know who. It's a crystal. Yeah. It's a it's a crystal tuna sandwich. Yeah. Yeah. New development. It's fucking Rolls Royce. Yeah. Yeah. And then do comedy and you know like why are you doing this. So hang out.
He just wanted to hang out. That's right. He just wanted to hang with us. He wanted to hang out with us because I just liked and the people he thought was funny he would give us awards. Yeah. We're just awards from him. We were in a contest we lost. But don't you worry because he brought awards, he gave us awards, but not everybody on people who were funny. He gave us I remember I have a crystal microphone.
You have one tip sitting on the side of the crystal, the beautiful microphone. That's amazing. Thanks for the laughs. Yeah. Rupinder, there's probably seventy five dollars. Yeah. This is crazy. I barely get what a nice man. Thank you. So you could. Do that or you could stand up and applaud one of the two, what either are the good set that would have sufficed five pound out of a thank you man. So these fucking idiots here, they're high school dropouts who hang around Moses Lake and frequently hang out with and talk to the kids at the high school.
Really, though, those kids, they have nothing else to do. So basically, they're going to their Matthew McConaughey in Dazed and Confused. And I stay the same age and that's what they do. They go to the high school parties. They go to the high school, like hang out in the parking lot and shit out there, drop out. And now they're even too old to be in high school dropouts to begin with. You're not even reliving glory.
You're reliving the worst day.
It's not like they dropped out at 16 and they're 17 and they're going to hang out. I like well, I should be here. All my friends from my year are here. So whatever dropped out when I was 16, they're still here when I'm in my 20s.
Yeah. The kids that were freshmen when you dropped out are now seniors. Are we go there, hang out with them.
It's going to be long gone or long gone, hopefully for their whatever. So this is pathetic. It's a pathetic pairing and you can see them and that's exactly what they look like. It's rare that people look are exactly what they look like. And these two, that's it. They nail it perfectly. So another guy who who they hang out with, this dipshit is named Jeffrey Florida, Florida Alotta. And so I don't know, Florida. We're probably 20 South Florida maybe.
So I'm going to call them Florida. Jefferey, Florida. Yeah. He goes to the town's alternative high school because of his learning difficulties. So I don't know what his learning difficulties are. But he goes to the you know, the you know, the alternative high school. You know that one. Yeah. That the one you and your friend got kicked out of school. I went there yesterday and he had to go there and yeah, everybody knows that they did.
The Family Guy, that was all Italian kids, as I say, everything. You see that now fucking hilarious genius Chris gets sent there. It's just I'll tell you kids, when he shows up, there's the like the principal outside and he's like, I'm Chris. And he goes he goes like, right this way. And they go in this door and it's the Copacabana Goodfellas thing. And they go through the restaurant and he waves his finger and the guy comes with a desk, with a chair on it and fucking puts it down in front in a notebook and pen because it's from Mr.
Tony right over here. Thank you. All the kids are Italian. It's so hilarious. You go, Hey, everybody, it's nine thirty.
We better start thinking about lunch. So they bring out this big table and a table cloth and lose big balls coming out because they got a nice big kind of thing going on in my head. I love when they make fun of me. I love it.
I love it when somebody makes fun of Italians, when it's funny and accurate, accurate, when it's good and when it's funny. I don't care for the I love it. It's my favorite thing in the world.
In school here was me. It was just a bunch of people that they heard.
No, no. It was all my friends. They I heard you could graduate early. Yeah. I didn't realize that there's a negative connotation that you're doing it go in. You're 16 and they would fucking graduate next year. Yeah. Oh great. Good for you. That's wonderful. And then the kid when he worked in the Job Corps and then when that failed, he went to the Navy. I remember that. I remember that. And he failed in that.
That's well, yeah. He's just going to retire. That's a that's comes from his core has nothing to do with the with the school or the Navy or anything else. He would fail no matter where you put him anywhere.
That's the easiest route. That's what most of the kids that went there went there for. Some people are failures. So that's the way it works, happens. There's nothing we can do. So, Margo, back to Margo. So you have those three idiots and then Margot's a completely different case, obviously, than them. Seems like the paths are way they should never know each other. They shouldn't even cross. Exactly. They should she should see them and go, you know, I bet they're going to Arby's.
So Margo turns 18 years old this year, and when she does, she inherits eighteen thousand dollars. Apparently, both of her parents died of cancer like within a year of each other, which is insane.
That's what the fuck kind of luck is that it's got to be environmental. Right? That's not just what did they did the odds? Do they live on the second floor of a fucking power plant or something like a high tension line centered. But they live in the pillbox in the middle of it. Like what? Oh, how is it going on? And they're twelve. They had to be relatively young, right? I mean, the odds of that are I would watch out for she's going to have I'd be getting something I could get Christ on Cristoff minimum.
I'd be calling Erin Brockovich something. Yeah, there's something going on here. So the Sterlings are the family that take in Margo when she was twelve and they promised Margo's mother that they would raise her just like they would raise their own child and they take her in, which Margo very lucky that she has somebody in a stable home that's willing to take her in and be to be a parent. Up to a kid who was broke. Your duty broken if my parents died at 12 of cancer to watch your parents wither away at 12.
Right. That's cancer.
And kids are rarely you get diagnosed. And then it's like over in Tunisia, it's a massive heart attack, which, you know, that's shocking.
But you didn't watch it. And that's brutal. S the worst. Yeah. So they said they do that. This is the she says the one parent before her mother died, she told Margot, I told Margot I was going to be her mother from now on. For a while she was calling us both mom. Oh. So her mom had died. And then the new mom here. Now, in her junior year, Margot heard an Army recruiter came to the school and she heard that speech.
And so that summer, she signed up for the delayed entry program where they can sign people up before they're even of age to fucking sign up for anything to go in when they're of age. It's like a letter of commitment. I hate that it's a promise ring for the military before you get smart and realize this is a tough gig. It's a tough gig and it's dangerous. Yeah. Oh, that sounds fun. And 17 year old more impressionable than 18.
You are. Yeah. You've got some freedom and you've got. Hey, that's dangerous.
I don't want might I might not be able to do that. I may not be able to pull that off. It's a hard job to do. And a year ago. Yeah, not everybody can do that. It's difficult. So this she promises to join the service when she graduates from high school. So in the spring of nineteen eighty six, the Mrs. Sterling, her foster mother or her new mom, I guess here.
Wow, this is rough. Had a kidney removed now. So can you imagine that she had to be like, freaking out Margaux like, oh Jesus. Now this one sec, she's in the hospital having a kidney removed. So when she gets out of the hospital from her kidney removal surgery, she realizes that Margo had moved out while she was in the hospital, which is really weird.
She didn't say anything completely out of character behavior just over the rainbow. Weird. Yeah. So she's shocked. Mrs. Sterling says she talked about getting her own apartment before we knew she wanted to see if she could do it on her own, but she just didn't tell them or like, you know, hey, I'm going to move out and, you know, whatever. She just was gone and she's got her inheritance. So maybe she wants to have her own apartment.
And, you know, it makes sense, I guess, at that point. But it's weird to do that out of the blue is what it was here. So that's about mid-March. Eighty six from there, Margot moves into a small apartment with a student from another student from Moses Lake High. So she gets a little apartment, a little roommate, you know, whatever. At that point, just Jesus Christ. The other girl had a car but her.
So that was the deal was like, I have an apartment, you have a car, you can take me places. But she was still in high school, this girl. So after a couple of weeks, her parents came and got her and made her come home.
Go back? Yeah. She can't usually when like a junior junior in high school, your parents don't let you get an apartment. Yeah, it's a really tough situation unless that's the better solution. Exactly. Yeah. Normally they're like, kick your ass home talking about are you do you live with her back to your room. You don't even do your own laundry yet. Go back to your room. Yeah. Yeah.
You don't know how to make macaroni and cheese. Are you going to do here. Call you in dinner or something. Yeah. Go back to that. Fucking get out of here. Yeah.
So one of the first nights at the new apartment, Margot, they have some people over, you know, just some friends because they're teenagers. It's like they have an apartment. And she meets Jerry McKee by our blonde haired fellow up there, the dropout loser who's twenty one and hangs out in high school parking lots, Mr. Blonde, with high school girls with a stupid blonde hair. Yeah. So, yeah, she meets Mickey. He was on his way to a party.
Margot didn't want to go to the party at all with them. They offered everybody go to the party. Margot's not a real party girl, so she didn't want to go to the party. But Mickey ended up hanging out there with her and talking to her all evening, OK, so they got to know each other all evening. So he was like, I'm not going to the party either. I can hang with you. I'm I'm talking to this girl.
I go to parties to meet girls already here. Already met a girl. What the hell's going on in the party for sand and beach, man? That's what I mean, exactly. What are we doing? So there's the girl. They end up talking all evening. And this is this is the type of guy that you wouldn't want Margo to hang. If you're like Margaux's parents, you'd go, don't talk to that guy. He's a scumbag.
He's way only three years older than you, which is a big three years senior in high school, you know, just after your senior year in high school and twenty one year old scumbag. Right. Are way different levels of your integrity.
And yeah, goals aside, interests are already all skewed exactly year after different things at that point. So that's an interesting thing here. She turns 18 on April 4th. That's when she gets her money. So that's when the all is going on here and on that. Day, this is now granted, she met Jerry McKee a week ago, right? On that day, they decide to get married.
So she taken silver tongued devil imagined the game on this guy. Yeah, he's a dirtbag. He's got nothing going for him whatsoever.
No, he's not even good looking. Now, you saw, I mean, terrible looking man. He looks like Eminem had a mullet. It's not good. Like a puffy haired mullet. It's not a good look for a man. And somehow more blonde and blonder. That's a bit like that. Looks like it's natural. It's creepy as shit. So that and he's going to.
Wow, he's sweet. Talks. An 18 year old girl who's actually has her shit together is on a path to do better things in life. And all this type of shit. She wants to go to the army so she can get money for college. Right. Either way, she's out of Moses Lake. Instead of that, she wants to marry a loser who's never going anywhere. Never, ever. No. Now, it's very strange unless his friend can give him a ride.
Unless you got like a ride and I'll be stranded. No luggage. But you can see the look on a twenty one year old face when he hears the words eighteen thousand dollars cash. There you go. Big deal and say eighteen year old loser. Drop out. Turn out he has eighteen year old chick your own apartment. Got a bunch of cash in the bank. That's a lot of money to somebody. Yeah. I spent an eighty six to a teenager.
That's a lot of fucking. I had a roommate who told me he had forty one thousand dollars in a Roth IRA in 2003. Yeah I was blown away. Oh my God. That is the most money.
Can I look at it. Yes. He showed me to show me the statement bullshit. I don't believe you. I was stunned by that amount of money. That's what I mean. That's what I was making that every year at my job. But but I didn't get to see it at was. Yeah, you weren't saving it. He just has that. I've got to work all year to get that December 31st. You had none of it. So the other difference is like November came and went, man.
So they decide to get married, which is absolutely crazy. It's crazy. It doesn't make sense. Imagine if you're these foster parents, you've raised her so well. And if you're hopeful for her life and you're like, oh, it's all gone now, you're marrying a loser, God damn it. So she buys herself a car around that point. What she needs a car course. Got to have a car. She's got some money. She buys a car.
And then like some time in here over the summer with two of Mickey's friends, they drive down to Reno, to Nevada party. That's the thing. Yeah. Well, if you're from that area, Reno is the spot that's there. Vegas. Yeah. Think about it. Laughlin's too far. Think about it. That's there. Vegas. Oh, boy. We're going to Reno. Wow. Oh, boy. So V.I., they go along, a bunch of the friends come along and not only do they go to Reno, but then they decide why not extend this vacation?
This is so much fun. Who do you think's paying for all this, by the way? Everybody is everything that goes fast, man.
Oh, baby. Fast. Especially when you head from Reno, which is gambling town to Disneyland. I want to see Disneyland. Yeah, that's a twenty five hundred dollars two days. An expensive shot in the eighties. In the eighties it was a little better. This is before they've acquired every license for everything and raise the prices like crazy.
So everything you do in there costs money except for ride something. You could probably fry twenty bucks a person at this point to get in or something. But still, that's one hundred bucks. Right. That and now everybody's getting a fuck. Yeah they are. They're all getting stupid ideas. And the one guy's ears you'll hear about what, what name was probably on them and you're going to shit yourself. Whelchel, Stephen Whelchel.
That's not what he goes by. What is the pilot call him. I'm not going to tell you for a minute to wait. You're going to need to wait until an event happens. You're going to go, oh, my fucking God, that's crazy. So, yeah, they go to Disneyland and then head on down to Tijuana as well. That's a long ride. They went from Washington all the way down the coast to from Reno and then down to L.A. That's a lot of money all the way.
Beasley and fucking her car. I mean, you're putting this poor boy down there and back. That's three thousand miles by the time she came home because she's in her senior year of high school. This is the end of her senior year. Right. This is her last month of high school and two months. Tijuana was a nice trip because I was the least money she had to pay for anything, for anything, just like, oh, my God, that's deep down.
That is very cheap, especially in the eighties. Everything. Oh, God, that was the heyday of it, I'm sure.
Yeah. Imagine what her scumbag friends were doing down there. Awful things.
I spent twenty dollars on all of us and everybody got handjob. Everybody got including the donkey. I got him until I was feeling good about myself. So by the time she gets home she has been absent from school for a month. What a month. This is a month she took off.
You do this. You did not even in the summer. Reno Disneyland going on a run. Yes. Most of her money is gone to. Yeah. She spent. Over half of her inheritance, I'm sure they went to the MGM oh, they also stopped in Vegas on the way back and went to the MGM and put some money away there to see the fucking lions. You know, why not? So once she got back to Moses Lake High, she tries to go back to school and they say, oh, no, you're expelled.
Right? You didn't show up for a month. Remember that? And so we just expelled you. How are the Lions? Yeah, she had known that 30 absences meant an automatic expulsion, expulsion. And that's what it is, because she's never absent. She doesn't know. She didn't know. She'd never had an attendance. But that's exactly what they said. She'd never had an attendance. She'd never missed more than two days being sick here or there.
So she had no idea what the system was. She was just like, oh, but it's fine. I'm here now. And they were like, no, right, you're out. So she's like, fuck. Now, at this point, her Army gig was over, too, because the army part of her thing was that she had she had to graduate.
So that was part of the thing that she signed up for. The program was once you graduate, you go. And so she didn't graduate. So avoided the contract. Oh, my God. As well. So her Army gig was up and they didn't want her. And she talked about I guess I got to go to summer school to get my diploma so I could maybe get back into my Army program. And she fucked her entire life up with one month of screwing around, which really sucks because she was very studious her whole life had one like, you know, going to blow it out month in her entire life and it ruined everything.
So that kind of sucks for, you know, someone who's young and who we don't know what she was going through to with the whole kidney thing and her parents and all that kind of shit. So very strange. It gets worse.
OK, you know, that was in April, all that happened.
And then two pink lines by mid-May. Yep. She finds out, God damn it, she is pregnant. Yep. This could not get any worse. It could not get any fucking more out of fuck in a matter of two months.
Yeah. Her life went from one thing to a complete other thing. And of course, of course it's got to be the worst one of all. It's got to be her husband, McKees. Obviously, she's not sleeping with anybody else. It's his baby. He's the worst person you could ever. He's you know, he's the most fertile of the group is the biggest loser. He is. You know, he's really put this woman in a pickle.
Every everything that comes out of his dick is live. You live around your live rounds, man in here. Nothing. It is all live round. So dangerous.
Real life scenarios. Dangerous. Oh, boy.
I'm telling you, you can't even let you know.
Never mind. So even put it on a sock. That's right. Absorbent.
Thank you. You know where I was going. All right. So she's pregnant.
I'm glad you went there. And I didn't know they had been living with Mickey's parents at that point because they moved out of the apartment and because she's pregnant.
So they've been living with his parents. And then at this point, they move in September, they move into their own apartment, which is a studio apartment.
This is how it happens. Yeah, this is how the cycle starts. And this is it just makes that little mistake. Yeah. Awful choices that you have to make that put you in different situations that make you'd make other choices. And you're always making the bad choice. It seems like it's just it's well, it's a snowball once that always happens. And you have to make a bad choice because you made that because it's bad.
And then at some point you just go, who gives a shit? And you just stay that way, who gives a shit? And you park your dead car in your yard and leave it there.
That's what happens as your last to help me push this over there.
And you don't even care anymore. That's what I feel. You know, Mickey is trying to drag her into this black hole, right. Of trash. Yeah, she is not. So it's like it's bad. So they end up living there. They get their own one room apartment within a couple weeks, within a couple of weeks.
I hate hearing that word. One room apartments. That one bed.
It's no, it's a one room apartment is a studio. One room. Yeah. And when you say studio makes it sound glamorous. Oh like it's like a loft. It sounds like a picture. Like an easel on the big outside. It's like an art studio. It's a fucking one room apartment.
You get out of bed, stand up and you're at the stove and you're in the kitchen are you. Go make your breakfast. Everything in one room and then a toilet is a place. Hopefully it's got a door. So it's rough for two people to share that. And that's rough, OK, because it's like a hotel room, you know what I mean? That's if you're in a hotel room, two people in it. Over time, you're like, we got to get the fuck out of here.
She's building up. It's crazy in here.
Well, they also have three other people end up moving in, three more to have five people living in a one room apartment, in a divorce suite and a divorce suite. This is Stephen Whelchel.
Oh, my God. This dirtbag moves in. He moves in with. Well, I mean, why not have two runaway teenage. Girls, a 15 year old and a 16 year old runaway teenage girls that feels illegal now. Oh, it's very early. This whole thing is disgusting as hell. If you knocked on the door, you'd go, I don't know what's happening, but everybody up against the wall, there's something wrong here. I don't know what's going on there.
Too young. There's too many people. Is she pregnant? What's happening? I don't know what's going on.
It took her a month to go from life's on track going into the army when I graduate to make money for college now. Yeah, housing run away now.
It's I guess the runaways can stay here. One The Runaways one fifteen one sixteen. Oh, my God. We'll get into them in a second. To one is Nancy Hughes. And that is that is Jeff Flodders, our float. His girlfriend, of course, because she's only sixteen. So obviously you got to go out with her. My God. And then Beth Macy is the other one and she is fifteen years old friend. And she is Welch's girlfriend.
Oh, my. Of course. What is happening. So that's what's happening here. They've invited another couple, Whelchel Dirtbag Nineteens scum faced shit beard. Yeah. They invite him some face shit beer. That's quite the SpongeBob square. Pants is mortal enemy shit. Face sculpt face come face shit beard. Yeah. Scum they're pretty good shit faced scum beard shit face. That's a fucking.
I want to see that. That's a show I want to watch.
I listen to not under your sink beard shit.
When an avocado under your sink that sounds exactly like where you would live.
That sounds gross but does that with fifteen year olds because he likes them pink up. We'll get out of that.
And I couldn't, I couldn't help it.
I'm sorry. You know I get some face to face. At the foot of the money on it. Yeah, I'm Faye Sheppeard Shitfaced. No, doesn't matter. All and I'll say it really works. It's really Killoran with a turd. Its purpose is shades of its original. Yes. Shades. So this is a nightmare.
OK, five people, two of which are underage girls who are going out with overage guys. It's a disaster. It's illegal.
Yeah, a lot. Those five live there. And Florida, he doesn't live there. He lives with his parents. He knows better. He's there 90 percent of the time. He might go home, change some clothes, whatever. He comes right back because his girlfriend's there and all of his friends are there. So there's essentially six people living in one room here. This is my 12. Yeah. And this is starting to remind me of of a certain thing that we've talked about.
This is very starting to get Manzoni at this point. And it's going to get way more men in a second because Whelchel thinks he is he thinks he's a bit of a he thinks he's the leader of something and he thinks he's got ideas and he thinks he's got all sorts of shit cooking here. The higher power. Well, that's what he says. He tells everybody. By the way, at this point, Margo hates this arrangement. By the way, of course, she's not happy her.
Imagine you're pregnant.
Forget it, James. You this whole environment exists and she's footing the bill for this environment. She's got to be pissed.
She's footing the bill. But more than that, she's like pregnant and not happy to have no room and everything's dirty. And she's used to she was she's comes from a nice environment, like her parents had a good home. Her family has a good home. She comes from like where the toilets clean and stuff in here. Imagine what the boy imagine there's shit everywhere. Yeah. Imagine how gross everything is. And she's getting bigger and the place seems to feel smaller.
That's what I mean. You'd have to be like, oh my God, get these fucking people out of my goddamn house.
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Well, that's nice. That's a feel good saving from us. So save big on the sky sale search sky 50 today, new Sky customers only availability subject to location, minimum term and further terms applied for more info, see Skydeck reports speech. So she especially didn't like Steven Whelchel at all, at all. She thought he was a braggart. Everybody thought he was a braggart because he kind of was a braggart. As a matter of fact, he he brags about several things we'll talk about in a second.
This is like white trash friends. And that's what this is, though. It's that there's six people in an apartment.
This is different than an event that the song would be the same. I told you life was going to be this way. It just be less happy. This is the pregnant girl in the corner crying while they show up credits.
It'd be a country song. I never told you life was gonna be this way.
Parenting down and down the jobs, Joe.
That is a God damn country. You broke.
Your kid ain't got your DNA that I got ad lib that, you know, for a modern, more modern feel for it. So we'll all be there for you.
My truck is always stuck in second gear.
Take up and cruise all in Saigon.
Mickey's got to be hoping that this doesn't all happen, though, because he can't be happy about this situation. We can't afford juice. That's crazy. And it's kind of different, actually.
It's wild, man. Now, her parents, by the way, Ross and Wynona Sterling, are just she's they said they're just a Ross, Ross, Ross and y'know. And of course, this is a Ross. That's what I mean.
And then her little brother, Chandler, is quoted as saying they can't afford by the way, I've never watched a full episode.
I fucking despise everyone. Comedy I tried so hard is just because everybody loves it, because it was just on all the time of syndicated. I just couldn't get into it.
And they picked three chicks that were fun to fun to look at our teenager. Yeah. So I did my best for my ex now. Just didn't like it. Campy and dumb and it wasn't even campy for the sake of like being fun about the can't be like, like Twin Peaks is campy and dumb and they incur it's not like a John Waters movie.
Yeah. Like this is a friend's is just fucking dumb friends. I just don't want I don't know, everybody's bad. My God. You don't like a bad show. Everybody likes friends. I get it when you see it when you're a teenager too.
If you like something like it and then it brings you together because we. All right. Yes. We're not we don't like it. We're not talking shit about your experience with friends. It's just our experience with friends, that's all. It's not about you feeling good? Yeah. It's not that. It makes me feel that feel bad. It feels very, very bad.
So they're all living together. Like I said, they are they are fighting a lot. And the problem is. Well, OK, let's talk about Whelchel for a minute. He claims that he is a high satanic priest at this point. This is when he tells every listen, I didn't want to tell everybody this, but I'm a high satanic priest. I'm also in the Mafia. I don't know if you knew that as well. So I'm a satanic mafioso.
And just so everybody knows, in case you guys get lippy, I've killed sixty four people in California through my mafia.
Well, some summer mafia, some say. And, you know, wouldn't you serve two masters? It's really difficult to know who you killed for what after a while. It's like was was that for Martha? Who is that? Vinny? That sounds like mafia, but I think I killed him for Satan. I'm not positive. How old is he?
Nineteen is the sixty four people. Sixty four people. Very he's a he's a very accomplished mafia hit man by nineteen I mean sixty four. Jesus Christ. This is wild theories like he's top of the line. Yeah. And these are high satanic priests so he's accomplished a lot in his young years. I'll give him that. So and Mickey is like acting like he's like one of his disciples at this point. So another satanic, you know, priest which is pissing, which is pissing Margot off.
She's like, can you get like a job? And like, we have a baby coming, right? Once there's a baby coming, it's like this isn't that's all fun and games and shit.
But, you know, so he said something about Satan. The number one thing that those people do is sacrifice. Well, we fucking figure this out.
Well, yeah, that's in their minds. Yeah. That's what you'd see in a movie back then. And plus, he's just thinking, can you do anything to help rather than Satan isn't paying the bills, so do something. So it's at this point they're all living together and he starts having problems. He said his aura, his aura. This is Whelchel. Whelchel, Steven Whelchel said his aura, quote, had a link that had been busted.
This is late September.
He said his aura, quote, had a link that had been busted. I got a busted link in my car. That's literally what he said. Busted our link man is fucking up my aura. You know, it's a big circle, right? And if a link breaks and just fly. All out everywhere. All right, got it. It's a link of my aura, gets a real scramble or link all messed up so that it makes me to just kill people for the Mafia.
Oh, boy. So, yeah, this is what he's talking about for a few times. September twenty fourth, nineteen eighty six. This is Nancy is there Nancy staying at her friend's house of one night here late that night. They go, they come over. Nancy's there. There's five of them there on the twenty fourth Stephen Whelchel comes over and he is with the girls. I'm sorry. He comes over with these, with these girls again.
The, they were planning also to go to California with the McKees in early October. We're all going to go to California and these underage girls are going to come, let's take them across state lines because that's wards with us. That's smart. Yeah. And Jeff, Florida was going to come. Everybody was coming. Oh, baby was a crime in the car. So all of us all going to cram in the car.
There are very few cars that a nineteen year old can afford that holds six adults comfortably. Comfortably. Yeah, well, two of them are children still. So that's good. There's a sophomore in there. Yeah. They got all sorts of them in the definitely underage. So September twenty sixth.
Nineteen eighty seven. Margo, five months pregnant. Yeah. Starting to feel that. I would think they're little more than not that night obviously. Nancy argues with Whelchel there and Nancy and Whelchel argue with Margo. OK, Margaux's tell them like you guys are messy and all this type of shit.
So it's at that point that Gerry and Margo, the married couple in the Keys, they leave for an hour to cool off and go talk, OK, once they return, when they come back, Mickey, Gerry, Mickey comes back by himself. He's no, he doesn't come back with Margo. So they're all like, where the fuck's Margo? What's going on? She comes out about an hour later, she shows back up. I saw Jimmy.
He's like, Oh, I know. And she shows up an hour later and she apologizes to Steve and Whelchel. I'm sorry. I said I'm sorry.
I'm sorry that I'm upset that you make a mess and call yourself a high priest and bring underage girls into my home while I'm five months pregnant. Sorry, you can't grow a beard. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Shit face come beard. I really can't take it anymore. I really apologize. So now she comes up to the apartment apologizing. Mickey comes back to the apartment and he says that he tells her later that he's still mad at Margo.
You know, he's like he's still mad at Margo. He tells one of the other girls, you know, this is this is shitty forgiven. Yeah. He says he says he's still mad at her and he even talked about killing our dog. He doesn't know, like he's just mad at her. So Steve and Whelchel had asked Jerry for our Jerry, Mickey, Mickey, they're Jesus Flodden, Mickey, Jeffrey and Jerry fucks me up. If tonight was the night and Jerry said, yes, it was.
So that's what they said. That was the twenty sixth. So now the twenty seventh. He's got a broken aura again. He's still talking about it. Link busted in the opera he says Whelchel he goes, listen, I got to fix this aura so let's all of us about three a.m. we'll all head down to Moses Lake OK.
Because he got to have a 3:00 a.m. or affection session at the lake. It's the only way to fix an hour.
Everybody knows that in the darkest time, everybody knows that it's it's obvious under the moonlight, the South Florida and and Whelchel each carry a table leg, which they're going out into, like the kind of the wilds there. Yeah. So they're taking this, I think, for to fend off their ostensibly for protection against if an animal comes their jackrabbits and Karpe coyotes. Yeah. The carp come at you hard, you know, they come right out of the water.
They're tough. You've got to be careful about the car. You have any seaweed on your feet, they'll just eat it running a piece of IKEA. So you're safe.
Well, it's a taped up, reinforced table like. Wow. So it's like what you would carry, like in your fucking in your trunk in under the passenger seat.
Yeah. To watch somebody that's I had a Kirby Puckett model and I was a teenager at all times and he gave it to me. It was a perfect length to whip around, but everybody has, you know, something. So that's what they have reinforced table legs are carrying to protect the group. Yeah.
So the Whelchel also is wearing a hunting knife on his side because he's just one of those idiots, the worst fucking hunting knives. Sure. And just for no reason. And Florida and McKie, that's the Jeffrey and Jerry, they're the and Whelchel separate from the other from the girls. OK, so there's three girls, three guys. They go off in separate now. They go off in separate so they can play a game. Right. Right. This is the game they play rock, paper, scissors.
Yeah. That's the game to be a part of. Do that, rock, paper, scissors is to see who's going to kill Margo. Oh, my God. Rock, paper, scissors. Yeah.
OK, so Rochambeau, whoever wins winner doesn't have to do. No winner has to kill the killer. What? So that's. I don't understand. I'd be just. What's the worst. Fuck. They're all equal. Shit. I don't know.
The loser just doesn't get to doesn't get to kill the two people that lose or find they don't have to kill but the winner has to kill.
I don't know if this is a contest to see who gets to kill or feels like yeah, this is more who gets to than who has to. So he Florida ends up winning the game. Yeah. He wins, but he said he couldn't do it. He tells them that he's like, I can't kill her, dude. I can't kill her.
You know, she's nice and also fucking five months pregnant. It's on top of that. I'm not a monster. This is not the Manson family basically hate her. She has a child.
And this is getting Manzoni right now. Satan, we're in the desert. You're talking about fucking killing a pregnant woman. I'm not liking what I'm hearing right now. I've got a fucking Oura. There's an aura that's busted. You know what I'm saying? If you start slipping Tab's acid to us, I am running the other direction. So I Whelchel says, OK, fine. And then he has everyone, the whole the whole group form a circle and hold hands because he's got to fix his arse.
And we're all going to do this. And imagine you're five months pregnant. You got to go three o'clock in the morning down to the fucking lake so you can fix some dipshits. Or how about fix your beard and then we'll talk about your alright you dipshit.
Fuck or fix your life. Fix your goddamn life, you scumbag, scumbag, fucking idiot. So it's somewhere in the circle. While they're doing this, Whelchel says that he has to break away from the circle to go take a leak. He's like, hold on a minute, you guys keep oring power to the IRA. I'm going to go pee quick. I'll be back in a second. So he takes he leaves her second, goes and takes a piss as he comes back.
Everybody still in the circle. He joins the circle in a different way. Rather than joining hands, he takes a table leg from behind, wails Margot in the back of a head with a table marked with a reinforced table leg knocking her to the ground. Yeah, OK. It's at this point, Nancy, the sixteen year old fucking runs away.
Yeah, she was like, why? What the fuck am I just realized? I'm a child. Oh my God. Yeah. Holy shit, this isn't fun anymore. She just really shit got real really fast. And Jerry McKee follows her. Yeah. Now or is he chasing her. Is he running away also because you know it's his wife. I don't know, maybe, maybe try to protect your pregnant wife. That's a thought. I don't know something.
Or he's going after her to stop the stop her from starting what I'm saying. Or is he chasing her? What's going on here? So we don't know his motives at the time.
So the S at this point, before Mickey left to go after her, Whelchel handed him the knife. So that doesn't look very good at all. OK, but Mickey gave it back saying, I'm not going I'm not stabbing.
Fucking not we're we're ending this here. I'm not doing that.
There's one guy who really has a blood lust and everybody else is just kind of going along, going along with the program because they're part of the group. And also he'll fucking kill you.
Yeah, they're part of the gang. Obviously, they're scumbags also, because if you see somebody well, a fucking pregnant teenager with a table leg and you just kind of go along with it, you don't really have a good, you know. Yeah, yeah.
I would think you'd have to try to even if you were up with the plan when you saw it happen, wouldn't you be like, oh, no, we can't. This is fucking crazy. That's what it looks like. Oh, no, I'm going to the other table leg and. Well, this asshole went right until I get him to stop. So it's at this point that Whelchel shrugs and he just starts beating Margot at the table leg repeatedly.
I mean, a lot. He's just fucking wailing on her.
Jeff, Florida attempted to leave, but Whelchel called him back, made him come back over well, yelled at him, told him to get back over here and insisted that he put Margo in a sleeper hold what he said, put her in a sleeper hold, put her in a sleeper hold. So he makes this kid put this guy fucking put this very badly battered, barely alive, pregnant teenager in a sleeper hold. And they're Florida came back and held her for about five minutes in a sleeper hold.
That's all. This is insane. While this is going on, Whelchel stabs Margo at least a couple of times right. In this at this particular point and gives the table leg to here's an odd one, the 15 year old girl, Beth, that he's going out with. And Beth beats her with the table back as well.
A fifteen year old. Now, the girl, a sophomore girl, is going to beat this girl. This is fucking crazy, is what she probably just wants this to end now, right?
I guess that's her boyfriend. I don't know how Snoad she is by him and how much bullshit he's screwing. This is very Manzoni. He's got two teenage. Girls who otherwise weren't going to fucking go murder a pregnant woman and next thing you know, they're beating and stabbing a pregnant woman.
You got three people culpable now at this moment. This is a lot. Yeah.
The only person at this point is not culpable is the fucking one who ran away. The girl who went, holy shit, this is crazy. And ran away because she didn't know what was going on. So Beth beats her with the table leg, Nancy. She'll end up saying that Beth told her later on about the whole thing.
We talked about it and Beth said that Whelchel handed her a club to beat Margaux and that she obeyed. And she said once she started, she just couldn't stop beating her. Oh, gross. She didn't want to do it at first. But then once she started doing it and she got carried away and got into it or what? It's not a can of Pringles. This is this is crazy. So she's still alive. She's been stabbed twice, put in a sleeper hold for five minutes and repeatedly beaten with a tape with two different table legs.
She's still she's dying. She's begging Whelchel to leave her alone. She said that she's lost so much blood, she's going to die anyway. She's literally going, I'm going to die. Just leave me alone. Stop hurting me. Basically, just let me die here. And Whelchel told her this motherfucker.
Oh, boy, oh, boy, I'm faced motherfucker.
He tells her, quote, You're going to die by my blade. Oh, boy, what a piece of shit. And yet she so then he ended up stabbing her a lot. We'll talk about how many times and when she's finally seemed to be passed away here. He left Whelchel and said, well, that's taken care of. Yeah. And just like acted like that's no big deal. Wipe the blood off the knife. Glowing, feeling good on the other side.
How about you guys? She was Jesus Christ struck. Fuck me. She was stabbed five times and struck between 20 and 30 times at the table. So just beaten with whatever. And it's just disgusting, man. So then he turns to the other people and warns them not to tell anybody about this, obviously. Yeah.
You know, because if you're going to have we've said many times I started with, I want to say, a crime and sports episode from our first ten so far, one of our first ten podcasts, it was first rule was don't have a teenager in your head scribed if you kill people.
Yeah. If you're going to kill people, don't involve teenagers. Teenage girls aren't known. And I'm not saying that girls, but more girl teenage girls are not known for their secret keeping abilities. Generally, they like to tell other people's shit to teenage boys or teenagers like talk. Gossip is so much fun. Yeah.
And they like to say shit they've done and shit they've seen and how cool they are, how badass they are and how dangerous they are. They love that shit so that oh my God. Self-loading at this point. And Whelchel then take Margot, pick her up battered bloody body and dump her into some bushes and push some, push some dirt in some bushes on top of her down by her leg, just, you know, pushing shit on her and pushing some dirt and some debris and all that sort of shit.
And then they all went back to her apartment, back to her house, back to where they were, back to the apartment. They dumped the table legs in the countryside the next day. And a few days later, Jerry and Florida, her husband and Florida went back to the murder site at night again to to put a little more dirt on it, bury it a little better. You know, a couple of days, though, they waited to do that shit.
So that's October 16th. Those girls now, they know other 15 year olds and 16 year olds and they tell them shit. And one of them that we talked about went to the police and said, I think I know where a body is because I I heard some stuff.
So one of the people they told the kids from school had a fucking conscience and went, oh, my God, there's a pregnant, dead teenager out there.
I should tell the cops that. And they believe, Nancy, she doesn't fuck around. So there you go. They ended up doing that and they find it. But this is until October 16th. So three weeks later. Yeah. So the decomposition is not great. It's warm out there. It's it's not good. No, it's not good at all. Oh, my God. They find her. It's it's like I said, a brutal discovery.
They they only identify her through dental records. That's how brutal it is. Very, very bad here. Very, very bad.
So after a friend tells Jerry McKee that the cops found Margot that day, that he hears about it right away, it's a small town. Yeah. Jerry gets right up and goes to the Moses Lake Police Department to file a missing persons report because he hadn't even filed a missing persons report three weeks. Nobody knew she was missing. Oh, no, she didn't really check in with her foster parents very often. So everybody just figured whatever. She didn't have a job where she would show up every day.
Fuck. Basically, if she wasn't there. Those are the only four other people, those five people, the only people that Dr.. Or so nobody was repartner gone, nobody knew she was missing. So he reports are missing that day, like two hours after they find the body, he goes saying, hey, my wife's been missing for about three weeks just in case you run across or they find that suspicious.
That that's weird. What a coincidence. Wow. So they sit him down. Let's have a talk. Jerry, what do you say? And we looked at him. Didn't look like the brightest bulb. Now feel like you could get him to say some shit they take to tape recordings of McKie. Hear both recordings were done with his knowledge and consent after Miranda warning and signing the document and everything here. First recording takes place on the 16th. When he goes there, he files the report and then they they they questioned him for about 40 minutes about it, about his wife and about everything.
And in 40 minutes, think about I've done this guy is in 40 minutes. He went from my wife's. I can't find her. She's missing, too. OK, I come sit down and get some questions. Hair color, eye color, all that shit too. OK, I was there when she was murdered in forty minutes. That was a good investigator in forty minutes. Or a high school dropout has no fucking idea exactly with the murder we've seen like you know of forty eight.
The first forty eight and you see the forty minutes to go from hi. My wife's missing to I was there. Yeah. I mean I didn't do it and I was there those 40 minutes it was shit it's come there was discovered is beard was just at home.
Do it to me.
I wish we could call his episodes come for the weekend. It's so sad they won't let his name at that.
So in his initial statement though, he said that he was present when she was murdered. He said though he left the murder scene as soon as the first blow was struck to go run, him and Nancy both ran away.
He said, quote, I didn't I didn't do I didn't even take part in doing anything to her. Steve and Jeff did it all. So right now, he puts that they didn't know anything about Steve. Now they know about Steve and Jeff. So they're like and Steve and Jeff, who now heads out part I mean, forty minutes. He's not only crying, saying he was there, he's given up accomplices and I mean, fucking Jesus throwing the leads at him all day.
Wow. You could tell he's not the mafia hit man given more leads to the telemarketer market. Right.
Jesus Christ man, he would be bad in the mafia. Yeah. Very, very bad. The worse, the worse he'd be killed. And so he then he proceeded to answer questions. And these questions lead to everyone being arrested. They're all five of everybody else are arrested on October 16th. The whole crew here, when they arrest Florida, he is with he's with Whelchel here. Oh, and a search of the car they were driving because they pulled him over and arrested him like that.
Turns up a knife very consistent with the one that would have killed Margo because this idiot wouldn't ditch is not oh, no survival tool. Ditch the table like this as my knife right here.
It's my blade. My blade along with Margo's purse. What that happens to be in a box of clothing on the back seat. Just sitting on top there, sir. Purse sitting there. So that does not look good. Be one thing. If the purse was in her husband's car, you know, she might have left it in here two months ago.
I don't know. But these people have no reason to have somebody a dead woman's purse in their car. That's not a great thing. So they go ahead and arrest these two as well. And everybody, the whole crew gives it up. Everybody except for High Priest Whelchel here. And we'll talk about why. Because it's his name and where he comes from, I feel like is why what he has on his arrest report is amazing what his actual name is.
His name is not Wilt Welch. It is, but he's changed to something else and it's fucking amazing. So back to Mickey for a minute. Here in the interrogation room, he starts saying that they arrest everybody.
According to Mickey, Whelchel told Mickey that he wanted to kill Margo and he and Whelchel organised all the events leading up to the murder. Mickey says that Whelchel struck Margo on the head with the table. Then he stabbed her. Mickey says, I ran away from the scene with Nancy after the first blow and stayed at the top of the hill for about 90 minutes.
Jimmy, this went on an hour and a half. This went on eating a pregnant teenager for an hour and a half. They tortured this girl. They tortured this fucking girl for an hour and a half. This is even the Manson family didn't fuck with the Tates for this long. They got it over with. I mean, there was a little bit of mucking around. But once that once they started trying to run away and shit, they just started killing people and got it over with.
This is fucking disturbing here. This is enjoying it. This is gross. He said he returned to the scene after the other girl, Beth, came up the hill and told him what Mel Celle, what Whelchel in Florida were that they were taking care of him. Don't worry about it. They got this. It's all over with, he denied any any involvement in the killing, though, Mickey, even when police used the ruse, they even when they said, hey, look, we heard and we know you struck her with a rock, they tried to play that game with him because he said if he did it, he would have bought it.
And he said, no, I didn't hit her with a rock. I didn't fucking hit her. I never hit her. So according to everybody, Mickey never hit her at all.
But I mean, he allowed the whole thing to happen to your wife, and that's what I mean.
Yeah. And you allowed it.
This is crazy. So the next day, police interrogated him again. He again stated that Whelchel did it. He says this time, though, that he saw Whelchel hit Margot at least 10 times before he went up the hill. At this point is like I stayed a little longer than I said before. He also admitted to more serious involvement. They said, quote, Why was Margot killed was the question. And his answer on a tape recorded answer here was, quote, Because I wanted to get Margot out of my life instead of a divorce I wanted instead of a divorce.
Steven Whelchel had that done.
So it's his plan. It's his plan because he wanted to get out of his marriage that he's been in for fucking five months and knocked this poor girl marriage he created. This is his doing.
Wow. So he said that he never asked Whelchel to murder his wife, but told him, quote, Just don't involve me when Whelchel said he would kill her. So he was like, well, I want to know about it, but you can kill her if you want, which is just as bad. So both Mickey and Florida admitted to knowing that Whelchel wanted to kill Margo when they all went down to the lake together, that that was the plan.
They both admitted they did nothing to try to save her life. They learn from Florida that they played rock, paper, scissors and all that sort of shit.
Jesus, fuck, this is this is awful. If Florida also ascribed the most of the fault of the murder to Whelchel saying that Margo was still alive after he put her in the sleeper hold, what she said that he was forced to do and was stabbed to death as well there after the sleeper hold. Mickey in Florida also stated that Whelchel would have harmed them if they interfered with the murder. Well, there's two of you and you have table like so HAYNAM and shit.
It's a good point. Two of you start beating this mother fucker with table legs. I don't care who he is or what kind of knife he's got. One goes high, one goes low and you fucking beat his ass. If me and you have table legs, we can kick anybody's ass. I'm sorry.
Anybody unarmed or with a knife I'm in.
I'm whuppin in their goddamn ass. You go high, I go low and that's it. Knees and face. I mean, they're going down. You mean you go hi. I tried to my say the other way around that would be I am not going, I'm going high. You're going lower. You're right. I'm coming from the back. You go at the knees. I don't know how you're going to get to the knees. John's going to be hard.
It's going to be a really long way. It's it's better. So both of them, both guys said that they feared and disliked Whelchel. And also Mickey said that Whelchel had threatened to come after him if he said anything implicating about him. So, Jerry, Florida, they also follow up whatever the fuck they they tape record his whole deal and after his Miranda and everything like that, he said it was Whelchel.
Same thing he said I did put her in a sleeper hold, yadda, yadda, yadda. So everybody pretty much has the same exact story. Yeah. Even the girls, they say it's Whelchel had was forcing other people to participate, that sort of shit. Now, like we said, the police have some evidence like Margaux's purse found in Stephen's car and Steven's name on record.
Yeah, yeah. This is on his record because I have it right here, the name that he puts. Let's take a look, Jimmy.
I'm going to read that for me and the fuck out of you. Charles, he just wrote that down. That's his name. Jimmy Shadowlord.
Shadowlord one word by Shadowlord, right? Not Lord, comma, Chateau Shadowlord.
So I don't know if this is like some game character or what, but I hate him. He got his police record, says his name is Shadowlord. This guy's an asshole. In the eighties before online video games, he had a screen name, Shadowlord the Asshole.
He'll have the latest on. My God.
So right away there's the physical evidence is not good. No, they don't have anything. No, basically, they have no blood was found on Whelchel clothes, my and the two wooden table legs that were found. Neither were ever conclusively determined to have been the murder weapon they had sat outside for. They didn't find the table legs for a month and a half, so they were shitty. Would their shitty watch the tape on them? The the tape also, it doesn't soak into the wood as much.
It's a whatever rain happens dirt and it disintegrate. Disintegrate. Exactly. So it's all basically there's nothing no way to establish that. They say it's something like that here, but they can establish an exact that sucks because it's not acute enough. If it was like a like a crowbar, you could see exactly what some tool marks you could put on a skull or something. But you can't do it with these clubs because they're. So they could have.
Iraq could have been any blunt object the way they are, so additionally, the prosecution could not establish that a knife found in Welch's car, which everybody said was the one that he used to stab Whelchel, they couldn't tie it to to that, though, physically. Margo, that's a stab mark. Yeah, they say that people said that's what he used, but he said no.
So what the shit?
How do you not have blood trace on it or something that they boil it?
I mean, apparently they whatever. Yeah. They couldn't they couldn't tie it physically. He must have cleaned it off. I don't know, maybe put some bleach on it. People all say that that was the knife and that one's very similar. It was bought by Macay and the knife actually that they found McKees are the only fingerprints on this knife. Oh, they don't know. They don't know if either he's lying or if that maybe this is a different knife and it's McKees Knife and not the knife that Whelchel used or we have no idea or Whelchel cleaned it then.
Mickey has had it since then or we don't. They all live in a room with a full of shit, knows everybody's got all of their if one of them got covid, everyone's got it. I mean, it's either they're very close together. These guys are super spreaders. Any group of them, these fucking there's a little group here. So yeah, they, they, they said that this knife there's also they said that Mickey in Florida tried to sell the knife used to kill Margot sometime between the murder and their arrest.
One of the girls said that the younger girls, the only piece of physical evidence linking Whelchel to the murder was Margaux's purse found in his car, which can be explained away in certain ways here. The presence of the purse kind of goes with Whelchel. Whelchel ends up saying that he helped Vlada and Mickey and Mickey cover up the crime after they committed it. That's says it goes. We I help them cover it up. So that's why I had the purse.
But I didn't think they were the one, the ones who killed her. You know, they came to me, the Shadowlord, when you need to cover something up, you come to the Shadowlord, obviously, and I'll cast a shadow upon it.
I'd be afraid of admitting anything like that based on how Manson Manson never killed anybody there.
But now, I mean conspiracy to put you away forever, too. Yeah, he did chop Gary benzer off and that he participated in that death. So but still. Yeah, it's bad. So yeah, they, they do all of this. He said that he also brought in a box full of items containing flodders close to his house to wash blood for them to wash the blood off of him. So according to Whelchel, said he was stopped by police when he was returning clothes and other items in the box to Florida.
So he was saying I was cleaning all this shit up for him and bringing it back to him. I'm all done with my job. And that was it. Yeah. Now there's he says he has an alibi.
George Floater, who is Jeffrey's father? Yeah. He said that Whelchel mid-morning of afternoon, the day of the murder, he he testified about this later on. Whelchel says he left the group when they went down to the lake there. He said at that time, five people since it was Marga was there still the night of the murder. And he went back to his parents house and he went home around 1:00 a.m. and he spent the night there. He said he woke up about ten thirty and Whelchel dead.
And his mother and father and sister all said that he was home that night and they saw him awake on the morning of the twenty seventh and then he left the house. So he's saying, I went over there. Yeah. And you know, I wasn't even around when they went down to the lake. I went to my parent's house and hung out, went to sleep and then I got caught up with them again the next day. OK, that's his story here.
But the state presents the testimony of, you know, of a shitload of witnesses that say otherwise, including Detective Deputy Frank Del Detro Leo.
Yeah, that's a fucking mouthful. That handle of Grant County Sheriff's Office testified that he went to the Whelchel residence on September twenty seventh at twelve thirty pm, looking for the two runaway teenage girls, one of which he's going out with a boy. I think about that. They were that that day, that morning hours, nine hours after this assault started, there was a police officer at this guy's door for completely unrelated issue. That's how much of a scumbag he is.
Yeah. He's got cops come and look for runaway teenage girls, he says the trolly says that he did not see Whelchel at the home during his visit. And when he asked the Welches father if his son was home, the father said that Whelchel did not live there. So he's not home. He's not here because doesn't live here.
Why would he try to cover for him even after the fact? The father did not know. Now he's in court saying he was home. No, no, no. The father saying he wasn't home. OK, Whelchel saying he's home on it. But the father the father is trying to cover for. Yeah, that's my point. Yeah. The father's trying to cover, but he forgot that I talked to a police officer the fucking that day like a jackass.
It's all in there. There's only ten thousand people here the day. Yeah. I want to go to parties. So while his father said that he wasn't home, he also said that, you know, obviously different testimony later on second. Ginetta Massee, who is Beth's mom, she says that she went to Whelchel parents home the morning of the twenty seven to look for her daughter then then she ended up sending the police. After that, she said that she arrived at the Whelchel home at about 11 a.m. and sat with Welches mother and father in the kitchen.
She said she didn't see Whelchel in the house either. So everybody's looking for these girls now.
The so he you know, they said he might have been somewhere else in the house, but they said he didn't live there. So that's all they know.
Third, a guy named David Frot, he is the manager of Jerry McKees and Margot McKees apartment complex. And he also they got a statement from him. He said that he saw Whelchel leaving the McKees apartment with everybody else at three a.m. the morning of the twenty seven. He saw them leaving, going to the manager's up at that time.
And apparently, I don't know what the hell he's doing, but he's a lot of Mathinna.
So the later on he'll say he was sleepy when he saw the group and he only saw the backs of them. But, you know, he figured whatever he said, he only saw the backs of five people, not six. So under the prosecution's theory, there should have been six people at three a.m.. Good point. And should have been six people. Then on the way back, there should have been five. But here there should be six.
But he's also as tired and who knows if he missed one of them because he didn't think he would have to know this for a murder trial later on that he has to fire. Yeah.
Finally, he says that he thought he saw the guy he thought thought he saw was Whelchel only because Whelchel had long, dark hair and that's all he saw. And but Florida had long dark hair, too. So who the hell knows?
Fourth, George thought of the father, testified that he went to Welches parents home on the twenty seventh to look for his son at a time when Whelchel should have been at the house, according to his alibi.
So three different people. The time that everybody, his family says he was home, literally three different people went there. And we're all told not only is he not here, he doesn't live here that morning.
That's a busy house. That's a lot of people coming and going, looking for teenage girls and alibis.
This is crazy shit. So they talk about the autopsy also, like we said, very awful autopsy here. The two young girls spell it Betha, Nancy, like, I'll tell you every fucking thing we know they're going to make a deal with Beth and Nancy because you try them as juveniles if they will testify against everybody else. That's the that's the deal. They're Masae, which is Beth. She pleads guilty to first degree murder by complicity and used it.
Nancy pleaded to first degree rendering of criminal assistance.
I like Nancy charges. I don't like Beth's. Beth should be stricter.
Yeah, she participated in murder. She hit a pregnant woman with a woman.
She hit a pregnant child with a fucking leg on the table repeatedly, just over and over. Was it just like, do it now?
And she was like, OK, it hit her once and ran away. She was like, once I got into it, once you pop, you can't stop bugging. So, yeah. So they plead to that. They're given plea bargains in exchange for their testimony at the trials of Florida, Mickey and Whelchel. So they're going to try Mickey in Florida together and then Whelchel is going to get a separate trial. Good as he's the the kingpin here, the he's the hit man.
So Nancy testifies that a couple of weeks before the killing, she walked in on a discussion between Whelchel and Mickey in which Whelchel said that he would he would have Margo killed on his way to California. He's like, tell you what, I'll kill her on the way out. Don't worry about it. I got you covered. That was a couple of weeks before it.
And the night of the twenty seventh, she said that she that Whelchel told Florida News, quote, Tonight's the night we're getting her tonight.
She said they formed a circle, he excused herself and all of that sort of thing happened. She said for the first time, I really knew Steve would when they went to the table like that, Nancy said for the first time I really knew Steve was going to kill her. Yeah, that would make sense at that point. She also said that she she said that while she was dying, that she was pleading with God to make Satan stop beating her because she thought he was Satan at the time.
This is fucking horrible, that poor girl. So according to all of this, to Jesus Christ, it's just fucking terrible. Man between the. I'm just disturbed by this shit so absorbed. It's a lot, man. So someone from the high school cleaned out Margo's locker a few days after her body was found and brought some papers by and for her mother, her foster mother there, Mrs. Sterling. She said that she saw something from one of Margaux's last days of school that she had written down, and she made a list of things she could do so she and Jerry wouldn't fight.
Oh, that's what she was doing, trying to appease the man's fucking jackass, idiot, fucking moron that he is.
And she's trying.
There's something inside him that she likes and wants to preserve. I don't know what it is. Unbelievable.
It's fucking horrible. So in exchange for being prosecuted as juveniles, Massey and Hughes, the young girls, Nancy and Beth, plead guilty and they testify, like we said. And so a principal part of the case here is the tape recorded statements that they made admitting to this shit and putting Whelchel into everything. Additionally, the state relies upon George Flodders deposition of going there, not Whelchel wasn't home that ruins his alibi. So all that sort of shit, they end up finding a bloodstained blanket.
OK, OK. This is a couple months later. Sure. This is like December. They find a bloodstained blanket near the crime scene and had a large bloodstain on it, as well as two human hairs. One hair was naturally blond and one hair was bleach blonde. So either way to blond hairs, because of the exposure to the elements. For several months, though, a blood type analysis couldn't even be performed on the blanket. Everything was deteriorated.
It was all, you know, just gone.
So there you go. It could not even be determined whether the blood on the blanket was human at that point. They couldn't even tell that. They could just tell that it was it looks red. Yeah, that's all they could say nowadays. They could probably pull a little more out of it. In eighty six. They were like, I don't know, damn near clonopin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They could probably make a dinosaur out of that blanket at this point.
So Steve here Whelchel he maintains the presence of the hairs which matched the hair colors of Margaux and Mickey and the absence of any hair matching his color. So I see I wasn't there. Right Soldier Dunn case closed with anomalies there, exoneration and possibly not lose one of my scum beard. Obviously I would. He also says that the blanket confirms his testimony that Florida told him he threw away a sheet or a blanket over Margot when he choked her. So he's like this all it all makes sense and clears me.
So November 12th, eighty six, the state chart gives everybody an extra charge, or at least the guys gives all three guys an extra charge and charging them with the death of the fetus as well. Oh, good. They charge him there. It's also it's manslaughter in the death of the fetus. They're going to charge that. Also, they said that the law they're talking about aggravated first degree murder and whether that's an option. And the prosecutor says it isn't a matter of whether we want to seek it out or not.
It's a whether it's whether it qualifies under the law. There's really no discretion on our part in this doesn't qualify because there's no are specific things for first degree murder that whatever for the special aggravated first degree murder. So they decide on a manslaughter charge for the fetus and all of that. They learned that Mickey had visited Margo had visited an obstetrician four days before her death, four days.
So I think that's what made viable vinicky pregnancy. And she was keeping it. I think that's what made Mickey flip out right. Think about that for days. He's a fucking idiot. Yeah.
January nineteen eighty seven, though, it comes out that they can't be charged with the death of the fetus at this point. Now the judge tosses out the charge. It's too young to be protected under the law. The law addresses fetuses. Twenty eight weeks and older for this specific thing. Seven months and this was twenty one weeks. So it just didn't, didn't fall under the law, basically. So they couldn't charge him with that. But, you know, regular murder is good.
So we still have that Mickey and Flodders trial is first here. OK, so they basically say that they put it all on Mickey and they say fucking hey, he had his first wife killed because he was tired of her. She didn't get along with his friends. They want to hear her complain anymore. They didn't want to pay for a baby. She said that she felt that their privacy was invaded when everybody moved in and there was all this complaining and she was tired of it.
That's what they're saying, which is that's a hell of a motive for murder, as I've imagine that that's a that's what they're thinking is the motive.
I mean, hey, it seems to be the reason, though. That's the weird part. That's how pathetic these people are. Is that as enough for these assholes?
So the defense here, they say that it's all it's all the other guy. So why are we even here? Basically, like he forced us to do it. We're very scared of him. His. Wow, OK, McKees. The lawyer says that he believed Whelchel had mystical powers over the small group. All right, he had mystical powers. He, quote, bragged that he was a high priest of Satan, that he was a member of the mafia, and that he had killed sixty four people in California.
A little lady for what they tell the jury. Why Vietnam? And he says that Whelchel made those statements to impress everybody and they believed him and they were very scared of him. He also says that Whelchel planned the murder on his own and nobody even knew what he was doing. Flodders said that he was at the scene, but that he is, quote, stupid and naive and scared to death of Whelchel. His lawyer said there was no conspiracy, just a single savage moment by Steven Whelchel.
90 minutes is not a fucking moment.
No, no, not on the whole movie. You had a lot of ways, a lot of time to intervene. And Mickey, in 90 minutes when he wasn't even near the scene, could have been calling the police.
The cops could have shown up while they were still murdering her. Yeah, that's how that's how much fucking time they had and how much the opportunity he had. Literally, they could have shown up while she was still alive, even if you were afraid to do it yourself. So, yeah, his lawyer, Jerry McKees lawyer, describes him as a timid, cowardly, immature boy with no sense of responsibility.
Yeah, sure. And murder. You can add to that Adnan asshole. Yeah. So they said that Whelchel was jealous of Margot Macay and felt threatened when his friendship with Jerry about her. The girls, like we said, they testify the same thing they said earlier. There is one little thing here about it. The one of the girls testified that she contradicts her story, talking about who initiated the conversations in the beginning. Was it Mickey or was it Whelchel three weeks earlier?
Because the one girl had said that she heard one guy bring it up and then the other one said she heard the other one bring it up. So we don't know if those were just different times, just a matter. And they had the same subject. But that was the thing that the defense was trying to buy, was trying to hone in on, is the girls that they don't even know who said it. They don't even know what's going on.
Meanwhile, it was like, you know, that thing in passing four months ago. So in closing, the Grant County prosecutor told the jury that Margo Mackey was, quote, a rose surrounded by noxious weeds, which is a pretty nice way of putting it. They are not whole screeds.
Yeah, disgusting shit faced scum, beards and dandelions, a bunch of dandelions. So February 1st, nineteen eighty seven. Mickey in Florida, the verdict comes in for them. The jury deliberated six men, six women. They deliberate for ten and a half hours over a two day period and they find them guilty of first degree murder by both of them. Yeah. Wanted to be guilty and guilty of first degree murder. So now they are going to appeal, though, of course, as we'll talk about their sentencing, an appeal and all that sort of shit here.
And there's a reason why something gets fucked up for later on, all based on this. OK, eighty seven starts.
The Whelchel trial starts here. Steven Whelchel, the high priest of Douche Bag right here. The first of all, the trial judge denies his request to introduce the evidence of the bloodstained blanket. They want to introduce that and they say, well, they can't even prove. He says, you can't even prove that was part of the murder. So he can prove that's a blanket with blood on it. Yeah, we don't even have any part of so that you can prove it.
Fuck off. So he can't. So the openings there. Wow, this is this is amazing. The defense says, quote, or is this the I know this is the this is the defense lawyer. Now, just as the blood of Able cried out for vengeance, so will the blood of Margot Mackey.
Oh, he's getting fucking wild, getting all biblical on that ass. He also said, this is Luke, Mickey and the defense attorney. He called the say the slaying a savage, brutal and senseless killing. But he said the defense evidence will dispute everybody's account and will show what an innocent guy Steven Whelchel is. OK, the blood, he says, quote, The blood of Margot McGee on the clothing of Jerry McKee, Jeff Vlada and and Beth Packer will tell you who killed Margo Mickey, as he says that there was blood stains found on Welches clothing as evidence that he killed Mickey.
That's what the prosecution says. But the defense says that the blood came from a cut on his forehead. He sat on his forearms. It was just a cut that he had. He bled on himself. It's not her blood. The other guy's totally guilty, though. OK, so that's what they're going to say here.
They said also, members of Wellesley's family will testify that he was at home with his family, do a nice, innocent things.
That's a that's a ballsy thing to say when so many people dispute it, though. That's what I mean. Timeline is so fucked. You don't want to go on talk about three people have nothing to do with each other. A cop apparent, another parent, I'll say no. Really know each other. Didn't even say them. Nope. So it doesn't even live here, so the lawyers also both lawyers, though, portray Jerry McKee as an opportunist scumbag asshole who married a young girl for her inheritance, married her, knocked her up, and then got sick of her when she didn't have any more money.
So that's basically how what they do there. But the prosecution says Whelchel is planned. It was his idea to kill Margo. And the defense is saying, no, it was all Jerry, Mickey, that's the key there at their trial. They you know the difference here, though, as Mickey and Flora would be great if they testified here, since that's part of their deal. Right. But they don't testify because they have an appeal pending now because they tried them first.
So based on that, any testimony, any cross-examination they could face is their appeal. Absolutely. So they're not they don't have to testify. So they made this deal done.
So that shit. Yeah, they don't have to testify. All fucked. It's all fucked. It's all fucked out. Jimmy.
God, they are allowed to introduce their recorded statements, though, but that's not the same thing. You hear a tape regarding the Jerry blagged fucking tunes out after five minutes, you've got to have a face to look at, you know? So, yeah, they said everybody else is testifying. The recordings are in the Whelchel. The attorney freaked out about the tapes. This is ridiculous. This is bullshit. I should have to you know, I get to I have to get to cross-examine these people, which is kind of a good point.
Facing your accusers is kind of one of the main deals of, you know, of the Constitution.
So why are they framing him, the nose? Are they framing? The prosecution presented seven different witnesses to whom Whelchel allegedly admitted committing the murder or said he planned to do so. A hell of a fight even. That's a lot. Yes. Taurima Libbrecht testified that Whelchel said, quote, We killed Bargo. That's pretty plain. Yeah. Audrey McClelland testified that Whelchel told her, quote, We killed Margo.
Whelchel says that these statements are consistent with his story, that he was involved with the cover up. And that's it. He also here we go. Whelchel argues that a Traci Weaver's testimony only implicated him in the conspiracy. Weaver testified that Whelchel had, quote, come in and said that him and his friends killed Jerry's wife, Margo.
He saw me and my friends. Mary Moseley's testimony said the same thing. She testified that she heard Whelchel referring to Margo say, quote, We're going to kill her.
Oh, no, this is a lot. This is like people this is everybody you've ever known said they talk so much. It's something that's obviously so fucking illegal. This is wild. This is it couldn't be more like a t shirt. I killed Margo and Stephen Kirkendall testified that Whelchel told him, quote, Margo was going to be killed.
And that, quote, I wanted her kept. Like Whelchel said, I want her killed. On cross-examination, he said that Whelchel never told him he was going to kill Margo himself, like personally. He also said that he had previously been injured by Whelchel, which during that something he characterized as a, quote, sucker punch to the head, which led to a three day hospital stay. So well, it's just a great guy who's a real fucking piece of work.
And he said that he does hold a grudge against Whelchel and he would love to see him convicted, but he did hear that anyway, doesn't make it less true. But sure, I'd love to see him in jail for murder. Fuck this guy. So two people testified that he actually said he committed the murder. Douglas Crosier testified that Whelchel said that he killed someone, though, didn't mention Margo's name. He said that Whelchel said that, quote, he had killed someone and that he would do it again if a friend ever asked him to say he's ready to kill.
Some more on cross-examination, he admitted some animosity toward Whelchel anyway. Outside of that, and David Joye, a former cellmate of both Whelchel and McGee, testified that Whelchel told him that he killed Margo. So, yeah, there you go. On cross-examination, he said that, you know, that he had talked to them and that's basically what he said. No, they came up that they both told me that. I'm telling you what they said. So, yeah, this is fucking amazing.
They try to do the alibi thing, which kind of dies out there. So the the girls testify again. And this time you said that she ran away when she heard, quote, quote, I heard a crack like when you hit a baseball.
That's what she said. It sounded like that. She said she did turn back around and Margo was on her knees and Steve Whelchel was standing behind her. She said she then ran away and that later she started to run, return to the scene. And Whelchel told her to, quote, get the hell out of here.
So he was busy, I guess she said that she heard Margo pleading with him to stop. On cross-examination, though, it says that she made an earlier statement that said she held her hands over her ears after Margo was first struck with something so. The during the murder part, but she says everything else is consistent up to that point. Yeah, yeah. Now Massee, she testified that she actually saw Whelchel kill Margo because she was right there. And she also hit her with a goddamn table leg part of it.
She admitted that she hit Marco with a table leg and all of that sort of shit. So first here, Masih broke up with Whelchel right before the murder, but before she agreed to testify and Whelchel threatened also to turn her in. So they did this whole thing where like she had broken up with him and then he she threatened to turn him in. And then she said, well, why don't I turn you in?
They went back and forth like that. Such a mature relationship.
It's ridiculous. Steven himself testifies by like a fucking moron. You got to you all that shit facing. Yeah, exactly. And he wants to talk shit. He wants to get a shit out there, just like Manson wanted to talk as much as he could. He says he left home about one 30 a.m. He said that it was not till the next day that he learned about Margo's murder from Jerry. He says that Mickey told him that Beth repeatedly hit Margo and that Florida to put her in a chokehold and that she went limp.
He said that Mickey told Mickey, told him that that floater had stabbed Bargo and that, you know, all that sort of shit. But he wasn't there. He just said that he agreed to watch Beth and Mickey's bloody clothes at his house and that he and Mickey also drove out to the country where they threw the table legs away and they talked about his alibi witnesses and all that sort of shit. Yeah. So anyway, they said, why didn't you give any information to the authorities until you got arrested?
And he said, quote, No one came to me. He said, we felt that it was best to keep quiet. The father said that we felt that it was best to keep quiet until he had a counsel. Nobody asked. Nobody asked me.
Oh, no. Minding my own business. So June 1st. Nineteen eighty seven. Yeah. The jury deliberates for four days. Wow. This is first degree murder, mind you, with no evidence. So just witnesses, co-conspirators. So four days of deliberation and he is found guilty of first degree murder. Good. Pretty fucked here. First degree murder. Sentencing comes around. He reads a statement.
This is this is his time to shine. This is Plead for Mercy. This isn't one of those guys that goes. I have nothing to say, Your Honor. I'd just like to say, you know, I hope a family friend, none of that shit. This is Charles Manson. I get to make a statement now. Great. So this isn't going to be short?
No, it's going to be long. He reads an hour long stay.
Oh, my God. This is not what they want when they say, do you have anything to say? They don't expect an hour long statement. And our only assholes who call themselves Shadowlord and want to make public spectacles of themselves like Manson do this shit.
It takes months to build an hour of material. That's so I did it right out.
Jesus, he said he reads an hour long statement. He maintains his innocence during this and accuses Jerry, Mickey and Beth Massee of being the real killers. He also said that he was harassed and threatened by the Grant County Sheriff's Department and other officers during his arrest. He said, quote, Law enforcement in this county has wanted me and my family out of this county for some time.
Yeah, the whites over here now inclosing here and an hour and fifty eight minutes he starts is closer.
Think about this. An hour of this. Oh my God, they did it. And the sheriff's department wants me. One time when my daddy was fourteen, he went to school with the guys. Now imagine this for a fucking hour.
And finally he said that this is fucking great and closing. He said, quote, I'm afraid now that I've said these things, I will not see my appeal. That's what he said. He's just he said they're going to kill me now because I've talked shit about the sheriff's department. So they handcuffed him and all of that. Sit him down. And the judge also has something to say to him as well. Within an hour, he called. I wasn't as little short of that.
He called what he did cruel and senseless and said that he could not find the he said it was cruel and senseless, but even though it was cruel and senseless, he couldn't find a compelling reason to go beyond the standard sentencing range.
Though you, sir, may fuck off. Twenty seven years and nine months he gets for this three hundred thirty three months. Basically, I would like life for this. Thank good. I mean, it's something here. I also find ten thousand dollars and so there's that big deal.
Twenty seven years now. He asked for bail. Yeah well, well he's spending all of this while all this is pending in the public. Defender filed an appeal while his appeal is pending. He files it. So he's been sentenced. Yeah. But he wants bail following appeal while the appeal is going. That happens in like white collar shit. No one's life is in danger.
You killed a child, man. This is crazy. Really? Yeah. And the thing I agree, the prosecution said the bell will be set at two hundred. Fifty thousand a year, let this fucking guy out on the street, not that he has two hundred thousand dollars, but still this is like. Yes, and then made it twenty five billion dollars. Yeah.
Twenty five quadrillion trillion dollars. Enjoy the Jubayl November. Eighty seven appeals. And now we're going to go through his appeal just quick. I'm not going to go through the details of it because it's very detailed. He says he wasn't allowed to confront his accusers because his attorney wasn't allowed to cross-examine Florida. And Mickey, that's for boys, which is a good fucking point, though. So that's a good point there. They said that Mickey in Florida had a strong incentive to misrepresent their role in the murder and to shift the blame from his point of view.
You're right there. And the appeals court held that the admission of the tape recorded statements by them was not an error because Mickey in Florida were not legally available to testify at the trial that they didn't do it because they didn't want to. They didn't. They couldn't because of the appeal. So they said that the the statements borrus a sufficient showing of trustworthiness. Whelchel that appealed to the Washington Supreme Court, which granted him a review on the issue of whether the tape recorded statements should have been allowed under the Sixth Amendment, the confrontation clause in the Sixth Amendment.
Should they have tried them after him? That's probably what they should have absolutely done.
That was in the order was backwards. Absolutely. But they needed to have them locked down so they would write. They wouldn't make a deal. It was a mess. So the court affirms the conviction it held. The admission of the tape recordings was constitutional because the error didn't fall under blah, blah, blah. Right. So they also held the error to be harmless, overwhelming, untainted evidence of the of the defendant's guilt was presented at trial, they said.
So one error doesn't matter, but through further appeals here, because this goes up the line and up the line, they talk about the Sixth Amendment and you know what it could do. And one court says the Florida and Mickey recordings are textbook examples of co-defendants statements that are presumptively unreliable because they're self-serving and uncorroborated coconspirator testimony. So that's a that's I don't know if one corroborates the other. If they're both co-conspirators, though, I'm not sure. So while Flodden Mickey, they admitted to being at the murder scene and we're aware that they were Margo was to be killed, they minimize their own role.
And they said, hey, I mean, that's just good for them. They said it's an attempt to foist blame on Whelchel while minimizing their responsibility. Obviously, they were tried together, so they had the advantage of doing that, whereas he's all by himself over here. They said the statements were contrary to the penal interests of me. I just love hearing the penal interest.
I don't know why we all have penal interests, guys, but you got to watch them, you know, watch your penal interest. They're so the this all goes through. We'll just get to the the deal here. They decide to give him a new trial. They set a new trial. All the boys seem to be digging come through now. They can testify now so they decide a new trial hearing. The district court correctly held the confirmation the confrontation clause era had a substantial and injurious effect on the influence of the jury.
The case against Whelchel consisted of three types of evidence, physical evidence, the testimony of third parties. We either heard Whelchel making incriminating statements about the murder or placed him near the scene and the testimony of his four co-defendants. So if you take one of those out, it really doesn't hold up. So he's supposed to get a retrial. February nineteen ninety eight is when his retrial is supposed to come. Three days before the trial's supposed to start a year.
The trial is canceled by Grant County Superior Judge Ivan B Spurlin. He's sent back to the pennant, Walla Walla while the state appeals court and a federal court while he appeals that now he has to appeal the state, appeal the decision and they won. So now he's got to appeal the appeal. And that could take up to a year going all the way to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court, put him back in the avocado under the sink. That's it.
Wow, two thousand. He finally gets the answer to nineteen ninety eight. Yeah. Where several constitutional errors were made during his trial confrontation clause. A couple of things that have to do with that violation of his due process rights by failure to admit certain evidence found at the crime scene, meaning the blanket cumulative error preventing him receiving a fair trial. And they said but they end up affirming his conviction.
So during all of this, though, he ends up making a deal with them to make an Alford plea basically through all of that guilt.
But admit guilt, but not admit you have enough evidence to convict me, but not not admit guilt. Yeah.
So he ends up doing that through that because they're like, we're sick of fucking doing this with this guy.
So through all of that, the time that he's supposed to be in there own ends up coming up. And June of 2002, Steven is released from prison staff released now. 15 years in jail, he's ended up pleading guilty to second degree murder on that, gained his freedom through a plea bargain, saying he already served more than the maximum term A allowed at the time of the crime. So they went back to there and it was a, well, an Alford plea.
And that's how it works. He was just. Yeah, so he gets out. Oh, Jesus. By the way, he gets right back into technology because, you know, it's new time he gets an email address. Looking at his email address was Shadowlord at AOL Dotcom.
But not but, you know, taken some vowels out somewhere.
Someone else already had Shadowlord, I'm for I'm sure by 25 January 2004 to January 5th, to be exact, is when it happens. He's arrested again. Of course he is. For harassment of and assault in the fourth degree. Oh, I'm not sure of who, but crazy thing happens here.
Stop harassment. Assault in the fourth degree. You can't do that sometime. Not when you were a murder. Right? Sometime within twenty four hours of this happening, he dies.
He's fuckin dead at thirty seven. I don't know if I couldn't find an article. I don't know if the cops killed him. I don't know if he got shot by the cops. I don't know if he died in custody. I don't know if you like old when they were had a fucking massive heart attack resulted, came back and found him. We don't know. But within twenty four hours of him being arrested or 48 hours, he's he's dead.
He's a shadow dead. Two thousand four Whelchel is dead as a doornail.
Oh fuck that guy. That small town murder right there. So sort of a happy ending now because had he stayed in jail, he probably would still be alive. Who knows? Yeah, I don't know what happened. Or maybe someone in jail killed him. We don't know what happened to him, but unbelievable. It's wild. So anyway, if you like that story, I don't know how you want. And that's a crazy story. What a story.
Please tell us the other two folks still in jail or they get out. They got twenty years. They're out by now. Yeah. So they got out by now. Not dummies anymore.
Let's hope they just start doing something quiet and shutting up and staying out of everybody's way, doing math and keeping to themselves.
That's all. Hopefully maybe having a heart attack in a trailer we'll say. So if you like the show, tell us about it. Tell the world get on Apple podcast, the purple icon and give us five stars, because it really does help drive us up. The charts also head over to shut up and give me murder dotcom. We got everything there. Merchandise, all for crime and sports and small town murder. And more importantly, though, tickets to the live show are virtual live show.
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We do. We take those episodes very seriously. And we they are. That's where the comedy I mean, these shows are funny, but those are like like dynamite packed into one hour. We just they're wild shows. You want the Patriota Method Man thing.
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I came to bring the Patriots so that you know what? Who knows what he's up to. He's probably does sing. But I I'm him to do that on camera. I mean, he's probably on it. He's probably got a patriot. So he's like that's part of his marketing. That's, you know, it's like anthem.
So last week we did a small town, one star reviews of these awful reviews of towns and a couple of our show as well. Throw in there. But Christ, was it funny? Let me tell you something. That was a sick, wild, funny episode. And the crime and sports episode that you'll also get access to that bonus episode was about a defunct wrestling company with a crazy owner who died. And one of the most insane ways I've ever heard in my life.
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And Jimmy must pronounce your name horribly, even if you don't sign up for Patrão. But you go to PayPal and you just throw a couple bucks that way because you want to have good karma and you want to be a producer. He'll mispronounce your name there. And all you did was use our email address, crime and sports at Gmail dot com to make that donation. And thank you, God damn it, that we appreciate every penny to thank you guys so much.
Even people, like I said, if you give. Give us a dollar there, like I know that doesn't help. It does. A lot of people listen to the show dollars, lot of literally giving us loose change. And we were like, thanks. Yeah, that's we don't care about it. We'll take it. We'll take anything. Thank you. So because we put the show out for free. So any time somebody wants to pay us for it, that's your you are doing something you don't have to do.
You're going above and beyond. So well we're blown away by that. So we try to give you the best damn patriotic content we can for the dollar and everything else. Thank you, everybody, for that. And that said, yeah, I need to hear the names of the people who have no broken aura and who go right up to Arby's with no line in a small town. Jimmy, heavy with those people right now.
This week's executive producers, Alistaire George, who donated both ways. Wow. And an unbelievable sweet. Thank you. Thank you so much. I remember that. Thank you so much. Unbelievable. Other other producers I know other executives this week are Elizabeth Hok, Colleen Vegas. I think that's a G. Josh Denton Jordan. Jordan Bennett, Jesus. I put Kate Jordan Bennett and Amanda with no last name, Dan Kammen, Zaim Zend, Christine Mellick and Shelby Whittman.
Thank you guys so much. We can't do without. Oh, God. Thank you. Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows, Liz Vasquez, Kendall Passmore, also Jenny Moore of Moravec Moravec.
Her son is suffering. It's brutal there now, but she listens just to help her get through it. And it's very, very sweet. What we can do much about now happen in our lives. We could be there for you and hang in there. Hang in there. Yeah, we're here for a lot of tough kitto.
Other producers also are. And that film, Michelle Lockhardt, Jeff Carlston, Liz Vasquez, James Marter, Michelle Lockart was in Steve Irwin's memory also. He passed away recently. I guess he loved us, which was very nice.
Spencer Wescott neck with no last name. Carl Kershner. Christopher Gillispie. Andrea Alakija. Yeah. Abigail Lau. Alison Bruer. Ryan Commins. Jackson Palmer. Alec. Nope, that's Andy Krampf. And Andy's cute. But also apparently so I'm told evidently he's got a great one.
Well good for you. Good Kabukiman can with no last name. Stephanie Phelps. Janet Cross-check Nikki with no last name. Kimberly Cooey, Andrew Dalzell Roberts. Matthew Bohlin. Thomas Keibel. Holly Stiffle Myers. Sean Morey is Italian of course.
Of course. Ronnie Mayo. Ronnie Yep. I am such a piece going to Italy someday to swear to God.
I just could not be able to read anything that happens. Oh, it isn't. Spaghetti will be spelt. We're going to be like, fuck, I don't know. Do you have the spaghetti with say anything like that. Are you going to have it? Hey, Jonathan Grogan. Alistair, Georgia said that she's amazing. Jacob, Shahd, Mike, Mike Shapp, Kelsey Underwood, Darian Stephens Page would no last name calling keys. Crystal O'Brien, Crystal Matsumoto I think Malick and Matt Hartke, Chris Aphorist.
Fiona Light, Admin's Sheerer, Lisa Maring Golo, Lori Rosler, Devin Fliss, Lelani Filles. Janice Hill. Evan Miller, Joshua Barek. Caitlin Miller. Andrew Goss'. Alex Pierce. Crystal Reynolds. Randy Cantrell. Jason S.. Canadian Pocan Pocket. Robin Chud Lorde took everything. Omar Gobe, Gobbi and Beeb's Boutique Suite.
Listen, I'm never going to get that right. I don't think Stephanie King Jesse would no last name. Hollin Smith. Leslie Gal Carvey's Gone. Kavi Bronnie, Virion Nosik, Tim Taylor and Berlin. Oh, Tim Teszler. He's in Berlin now. In Berlin. Travis now.
OK, Lewis Haas, Holly Blue Webb, Hanno Duffie Brenn Peacocke, Craig Wisk Jenniskens. Caleb Cooke. Matthew Marleau. Pamela Greenly. Kyla Crawford. Tim Board. Lea Michele Hansen. Yes. Oh Michelle Hansen asked me if I've been to the candy store. Everybody's been to the candy store. I've been there way too many times. Thomas that's a shitty strip club in North Phoenix, by the way. It's called the Candy Store. It's disgusting. Yeah, I've been there.
Thomas Lopez Provan go. No, Provan Gano got up. There you go, Vicky. Come, let's see. What is this line? Lina Gaspar. Vince Secuity. What's up?
You got that Jimmy Buffet, please. Any Italian people out there just even if it's just a fucking dollar. I don't get it. I'm not trying it. But it'll be worth Liese. It'll be worth it later. Jimmy, destroy your name. Taylor Ireland.
Joshua Burton, Mary Bates, Sean Mead, June Dickinson, Adam Yates, Brendan Abels and David Wallace. Steve Slade. Alexandra Gerwel, Trevor Hansen, Brandon Germany, Joli Coile, Ashley, Owen Harrington, Sandra Polski, Kristen Hendler, I think Sydney Vettori.
It's not right either. Monica Young, Monica Young is doing something amazing when she has a good night at her job and doesn't matter why she sends us money, because this week people tipped very well and it's so sweet. Thank you, Monica. Julie Masina, Don Stewart, Casper Jaideep Reid. I think that's right. He get all the letters are together. I can't read that. Casper Dadri zigzaggy.
Mike McClure. Brandon Monohan. Tess Wyatt. Carlos Hernandez. Austin Dewart. Nope. That's Dartez. Taryn Rin's. Phil Nope. That's Paris Grant. Laura Vandar Buben Chris. Nope, that's Sarah Christensen, the James Gang. Dustin Queen Anna Celotto David McGrath. Happy Birthday Shelley Tyrolean, Michelle Beranek, Jo Hsueh or Hosoi Santos. Stephanie Loftis. Adrien would no last name. Tami Shaam. Orion. Sarah Bradshaw. Eduardo Gonzalez. Michael Doheny. Dustin Parece Perez John would no last name.
Jason Romick. Jen Scaturro. Diana Lentini nine. Yes. Jessica McPhail. Christine Pate. Aaron Shmucks. Sharon Whiley Ali Gary. Megan Iman's. Monice Manassero. What the fuck.
Kaylee Cannon. Amber Siegmund Mike Frank. Jeff Blackwell. Lainez Hines. Michelle Kastel. Castile Olsen. Ashlee Simpson. Probably not. Jill Zakar. Jamie Jamie Furch. Joshua Brassard. Wendy Abara. Gregory Elliott. Haley Rimmer.
I'm sorry Haley Nick where everyone from Haley Rimmer and Nicole Loader. OK, fuck is happening. Hilary Clark.
Michelle with no last name. Zapara Whity Poona. OK, now I swear to God, Yeppoon. Amy Bishop Derald McDonald Michy Abner missioner using her I don't know Jamie Caulder, Robert Judger Civic Brad Merriman. Eric would no last name and that's with an A Eric with a Tyler as William Galloway. Kayla with no last name. David Francis. Avon Gail. Erica Pathum. Corey Coward. What. Lindsey Lowe. Amy Ah Deasey. What is this. Lukwiya Benton.
Carla Pearson. Lewis Laine Cole. Raimund Brandon. No last name. Elizabeth Jordan. Frank is up. Zamperini Taylor. Nope. That's Tanner McCutchen. Kerry Meyer. Angela Ankeny. Tanit Hansen Williams. Jim J. Mazing Anderson. Kyle Gary. It's Laura Hankies Megan Alice Barr. What Kathy and Gary Friedman. Rodney Little Lenzen Dorf Michael Mike. Bert Burris. David Flake. Jacqueline Currie. Dave Brown. Shantell with no last name. Joe Lynn Shavar.
Jason Fazlur. Jen McCoy. Alex Bonica. Julian Jordan. Kyle Kane. Dominic KONE's Jeff. Nope. That's Phil Jeff Bill Turpin S. Scott Haraga Ascott. That's Scott, right. Yeah, I think so. Christina Milano, Monica Munsie and Leslie Jordan. Probably not Shina would no last name. Monica Fitzgerald. Samantha Thompson. Hazen Chandler. Dulci Blakely. Caitlin Ward. Brian Dickson. Larry Thomas. Gabriel Moore. Brad Hiebert. Ryan Foley, Ghostwood.
No last name. Qiqi McGee. Janah well House. Jane Whitaker. Megan Johnson. Lisa Koosman, Joe Kenney, Karen Fleg I think John Witkoff, Jennifer Moyer, Lewis Ralston, Snoopy. Snoopy Noodle. Amanda Hall.
Dylan Barnat Lin thirty thirty.
Tori Lio Lawrence, Aaron Smith, Victoria Quarrels. Brian Kozik Bartholemew Straten. Tim Turner. Brian Dickson. Ben Rosenthal. Keith Katie Lynn. Nope. That's Katie Lee Jones. Heidi Beuttler. Stacy Benson Payton with no last name. Garreth States or stripes or strikes germaneness. Jesus. Tricia Bentley I know sounded out Wassmann. Nicole Galvani. Galvani What is that. Galvani is the Vaine. Christy Smith. Dan Lemley. Amelia Tedesco. Ryan J. Blair fanning the Jackson leg or Ligi Lauren Lurie being Mike Hunt, sure, OK, beat Zoe, Zoe, Zoe, Tom Stone, John, Daniel, your boy here.
Damron, Damron Damron, Caleb Cooke, Jackie Hewitt. Oh, what is this? Ozma Brown. Alexis Walsch. Nope, that's Alex sorry. Jake Summers. Joey May. Dan Lindsay. Leela, Gustavo. Matthew. As far as what as far as as far as Bryce Kirchen, a girl gamer Moses Gunner Tracy Jacobs, Lady Beard, Summer Mossman, Jasper Warton, Mattie Peck, Justin Murray, Randy Billing's Adam Holt, Rowdy Mekele Fresh Madison would no last name.
Adam White. James Rich. Rickie Saunders. Brook El Jaclyn Thompson. Beth Bell. Matt Rustum. Jack Nope. That's Rachel Voelz Laura had no last name. Angela Bingham. Henry Lorraine Adam Alan Murray. Jessica under draw under undera de Jennifer Kolstad Latasha with no last name. Trent Holleyman Kelly. Cora Corrington. Lucy Crookshank. Michael Conway. Danny Somerfield. Goddammit I'm close Rebecca. That's what happened. Yeah. Oh Rebecca Mitchell Darcy More Lexar Donnally Austin Theel.
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Jimmy, what if somebody wanted to fix Iara? How could they get all they can find me? They know they we've said her out there. I'm going to shows two hundred and thirty I think to for twelve six to six. Told them enough I think to forty two or something on crime and sports are quite a bit damn near 500.
You know, you people know how to look, you know how to look. Someone up on the goddamn internet. Go ahead and look us up and figure it out and follow us on there. You know where to find us. Lots of good stuff and content and all that shit there. We are more than excited to keep coming back each and every week, and we will keep doing that until next week. Everybody, it's been our pleasure. Man.
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