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What if you thought you killed someone but couldn't remember in the new Amazon original series, tell me your secrets? Emma is trying to figure out what role she played in the disappearance of a missing girl. Teresa Teresa's Mother Mary is obsessed with finding Emma and the truth from the executive producer of The Undoing comes the Amazon original series. Tell Me Your Secrets, premiering February 19th on Amazon Prime video. This week in Ely, Minnesota, a puddle of blood leads investigators to a frozen body and a complete mystery that unravels into something even stranger than they initially expected.


Welcome to small town Myrt. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to small town murder. Yay, yay, indeed, Jimmy, yay, indeed. My name is James Petraglia. I'm here with my co-host, Jimmy Wassmann. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us this week on another crazy, wild, nutty edition of Small Town Murder. As always, we have got just an absolutely weird case, as usual, for you today. I hope you enjoyed last week, which was nuts to watch your it's been so weird lately.


So I hope you're enjoying all this craziness coming at you. If you are, you can tell the world about it. Get on Apple podcast, that purple icon on your phone there and give us five stars. We don't know why, but it helps. Yeah, we have no idea. It really does help drive you up the charts. So thank you for everyone that does that. And if you have it, please do it. Also head over to shut up and give me murder dotcom right now, all sorts of merch up there, new stuff all the time, tickets to live shows, hopefully later in the year.


We don't know. So get on there, check it all out. Probably not, but who knows, maybe it's worth a shot. It feels good. The whole fucking world is nuts. It feels good to help. So get on there. Check all of that out. Also, Patriot is going wild. Check out Patriot. We have been on a roll and we're going to keep it going on a roll. Patriot is going strong. Of course it is.


Of course it is. If you have been catching up or if you haven't caught up, you want to catch up with this. Last time we did Old West murders, that was a lot. Ah, I'm sorry. That's the next episode. Old West Murders, which are crazy. Oh my God. It's think about that is just insanity going on back then.


Crazy stuff. And people are like I don't know. Oh well very, very interesting stories. They're a bunch of old west murders and love after lock-Up was the last one. We've got to talk about love after lock up the best show on TV season three. Oh, it's amazing.


We got to really, really get mad at a lot of people for screwing up their lives and we're so angry at them. Patreon Dotcom Slash Crime and sports is where you get all of that, the back catalogue, everything like that. And you get to be a producer. Jimmy will horribly mispronounce your name. Sure. Well, he tries his hardest to get it right, so that's a lot of fun. Get on that Patreon dotcom slash crime and sports, Patreon dotcom slash crime and sports is where you get all of that and you get access to all the crime and sports bonus and everything else there.


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Right. So that said, I think we need to do the disclaimer quickly. Obviously, this is a comedy podcast. Yeah, it's a comedy show. The murders are real. I swear. There's it sounds crazy. We find crazy murders. So I could see it listening to it going, oh, they're joking about that. No, that's the that's the crazy part. Right. The crazy part is sometimes the comedy. We don't need to say a thing because it's just insane stuff happening.


And obviously the act of murder isn't funny. No, no one's we're not sitting here going, he cut her. How my god, that's hilarious. Cut government to twelve pieces so far. That's not the funny part. That's the point. We are very respectful of stuff like that. You make jokes about all the stuff around a murder. Think about if you're like we should kill that person right away. Someone could take a step back and go, I think you should laugh at yourself because you're going off the rails here, buddy.


So if that's the way it as we go out of our way, not to make fun of the victims or the victims families because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. So that's how that works. So that sounds good to you. You're in for a good time. Do you think true crime and comedy should never go together? And, you know, just not at all. You don't want to hear any jokes if someone's ever been killed, that maybe we're not for you.


Maybe it's not. But it might be. I think maybe it might be looking at it the wrong way. Either way, though, I think it's time right now to sit back, take a deep breath. Yeah. Clear the lungs and shout, shut up and give me murder.


Let's do this. All right. Let's go on a trip to Europe, shall we? We are going up to the. It's cold up here, boy. We are going up to Minnesota. Oh, boy, oh, boy. In Northern Minnesota. This isn't like, you know, Minneapolis suburbs or anything. This is Ely, Minnesota. Ely, Minnesota, I should say. EE ee lee like Robert E yeah. Ely like that. Like you would say that it's l y is how you spell it.


Yeah. God forbid if you said it Ellie or something like that. I'm sure we get a lot of tweets like we did with Lino Lakes, trust me.


So this is in northeastern Minnesota all the way up by Canada. Yeah. Up in no man's land because this is where this is like a very north part of the United States, like it's north of like Michigan and Wisconsin. Our land that it's it's Canada, basically. It's four hours to Minneapolis. That's how far north it is. Two hours down to Duluth, boy.


The party center of Duluth, Minnesota, where all the crazy stuff happened. A place that's so vanilla, the most famous thing there is plaid underwear. There's a company that sells like Duluth Underwear Company is Duluth Trading Company now. Got a bunch of plaid shit. Oh, there you go. It's like farmer riled up there. Smart farmer gear shit that's warm. Yeah. Keep your warm outside. And it's about four hours and 15 minutes to Cora Corcoran, which was our last Minnesota episode, episode one eighty eight back in September of 2000.


Twenty miles or so. Yeah, it's been a little while, six months or so.


This is in St. Louis County. Hard OK, area code two one eight. And the town motto is there's not a lot of people here, but this is this is what they've chosen. You're not cold, are you? That's the town motto.


Any kind of puts. Yeah. You're not cold, are you? Only 12 below outside. Jesus Christ. Why do you wait till tonight comes around. That's when it's cold in the winter shows up. This is it's only August right now. It's shit. So the history of this place here, the first Europeans to explore the area where fur traders only the this is nowhere where no one said we're going to go up there and live.


People are like, I hear they're shit to kill and trade up there. I guess I can survive it. I heard we can got a hat up there. Yeah. So there that's that's true.


I really feel like I'd like to take many animals and make them into a garment of some kind. We like to get a jacket.


I could do it.


So they search. That's what they do. They go into the wilderness to search for shit, to trade furs. It was the lake of Vermillion Gold Rush, though, that brought the largest number of people here in 1865. It's a civil war and dead. There's furs. And now. So people here, there's gold. Yeah. Eighteen hundreds. Whenever anybody heard there was gold, there was just people going from one spot to the next. That's where we're going now.


How many towns have we heard of that? That was how they started was initially people quote heard there was gold. Right.


Not even there was that girl. Not confirmation. I heard about it. Heard some gold was in this town. Are you? Pray tell. Yeah. Where's the gold.


Tell her. Tell rumor of gold in them hills. They're hills. So although hardly any gold was ever found. And that's the thing.


A bunch of people went there. No one guy found a nugget once and he's like, look what I found.


And everybody rather like, fuck you got the only one. That's all there was.


Somebody must have put their foot down and shoot a jacket. They did end up finding large deposits of iron ore up there with, oh, not as good as gold, obviously. And you don't hear people excitedly yell iron.


I found iron, the main iron vein, but a lot of new immigrants were coming in at that time from Europe, lot of German immigrants and things like that. So a lot of them came to this area looking for work in the mines. And it was called the Minnesota Iron Range at that time. Yeah. They, you know, called it as I like to work, none of mine.


Poland iron out of the ground. Oh, my God, Jesus Christ. Or so it's just rocks of fucking iron. This is rough mavie.


Yeah. Dence. So Italy is a weird name. Wonder how it got it. I found in 2020 the the Italy echo put it this way. They wrote quote, The name Eyerly stems from the Isle of Eels, a wetland near Cambridge, England. In historic times, those lakes swarmed with the slithery fish eels obviously that provided sustenance for ancestors of Samu will be eyerly. His clan arrived in the states from Italy, England in the sixteen hundreds. One ancestor was a close associate of George Washington and Samuel, the mining executive, financed the railroad to Ely in 1888, which launched our town.


So that's how this works. Yeah, it's it's named after a place that had so many fucking eels.


They ate them that they ate them and then they then they, they named it after him.


Now the French eel, what they do. But I Japanese in like growing up, if you go fishing and you catch an eel, you cut the line and you don't keep it. God no. You just cut the line. You don't even get your your lure is gone. Your hook is you just cut it.


That's I remember the Hudson River snake. Yeah. When I was a kid I caught one in the Hudson River.


My dad was like, holy shit. Snip there's that goodbye. It's just snipped the line.


I was like, all right, let that digest that. We don't need that. That is ugly and scary. It was fucking it was huge and gross and weird. Man, they're ugly. It was disgusting. So that's how this town is is based on something very gross. Enjoy. There's this town is also famous, famous for hoaxes. Oh yeah. They're people from Italy with the support of the city council have created various hoaxes as a way of garnering free publicity for.


City, this is why they do PR, they are white, like PR firms do weird shit PR they really do like I was just reading this book about this, you know, the rock star game company that makes GTA and shit. In the beginning, they had this publicist who without telling them they were doing this, started this website that was called like Fuck Rock Star. And it was like, OK, all these, you know, mean nasty things about disparaging.


This was because in his mind, he had a big elaborate story that that a programmer quit and then took this website to do this, to get back at that. This was a PR guy's thing and they ended up calling the police and all this shit and found out that it was that not it was crazy. So PR people are not so that this is what I mean when you're trying for publicity, anything's possible.


Sightings of Bigfoot in the Loch Ness Monster. Yes. Don't do that. Exactly. That's what they do.


And then they sell you a keychain. Then you go there and you you buy lunch on a keychain and that's how they survive and we fix potholes. That's it. So one one hoax was that a was a of a fictional family that paints the leaves of trees every fall, everywhere, every fall.


Yeah, they are fictional family was retiring from the business and wanted people to send in a color application if they wanted to help carry out the tradition.


That was the thing they were they were cashing out on their painting, like painting these people go and change the colors from green to orange and red.


They change them. And so if anybody else would like to come in and get an application, we got an opening of them.


Yeah. Previously, they put out a story about Ealey seceding from the United States to be a part of Canada because it's right by Canada.


So that was another thing to get them publicity. It both hoaxes were featured in the on the Chamber of Commerce website. Zelig like that fucking dog was doing this in 2009. They made an international, obviously joking around a bid to host the 2016 Olympics. Claver and Ailee, they're really bought up in this.


They are. I really hope everything's perfect in this town. I hope that somebody come visit. I hope the roads are smooth. I hope those kids have so many textbooks and school shit, they don't know what they're doing. I hope it's just an embarrassment of riches up there. They have time to do this shit. Won't be liars.


I'd be dead dicks. They said in the in the bid that they had a man already employed with a bucket to drain Meiners Lake south of town in order to provide stadium seating for the Olympics again with a bucket. So that's that was their big joke. There's a guy with a bucket empty in and out. You know, they probably had a picture of some some dick out there. Bailon like with a waving with one hand holding a bucket shirtless with waders on, you know, as you can do it, we can help way up.


Oh, you know, it was fun, Dave. I guess so. The hoax became widely known through Minnesota and it was reported. And, you know, I was like a big joke and radio stations and they put out bumper stickers and shirts and even a billboard bearing the slogan Eilidh in 2016 became commonplace throughout the state. So this was like, Jesus, that's what they do. Otherwise nobody would know who the hell they are. I got news for you.


I still don't.


Even though we've talked about them for fifteen minutes, it's still hard, right?


It's best known for being the entry point for the boundary waters, canoe area wilderness. A lot of outdoor shit, lot of lakes. It's beautiful around here. Course, the international Wolf Wolf Center is here and the North American Bear Center is also here.


Well, wolves and bears, wolves and bears, lots of wolves and bears.


Come on through. We had a center for it all.


We got wolves and bears and that hoaxes have at it. Let's go.


Also, Jessica Biel was born here. Really weird, right? Not that weird. Is that moved and got herpes.


Good for her. I guess so. Fucking out of here. It's better than living here, I suppose. Reviews of this town found a few will give you a couple here. Here's a three star spent a week in Italy.


Eight seventeen, assume August 17. Unguided canoe trip. Injured my hip on the trip. That's not the town's fault. No, sir. I had to do laundry at the end of the trip. Well, you didn't bring enough underwear again, like I said, you know how many how many underwear you need, right? No handicap parking around the laundromat while bastard. So I faced by parked facing against the traffic to make it easier to get myself in the laundry out of the vehicle while in the laundromat.


This is really. Yeah.


While in the Laundromat I received a parking ticket. OK, describe the above circumstances but appeal was denied. I've now paid the forty two dollar fine but I'm not happy about this. Not happy about it. I never see another Jessica Biel. No not it's her fault. I'm trying to convince myself the town of really needs the money more than I do, but I won't return. There are other. Gateways to the boundary waters. OK, so he will not return because of a 42 dollar parking fine because he didn't bring enough underwear, right.


For his injured hip. So here's a two star review. Quote, This town tries to rely on tourism way too much, and thus all the jobs are minimum wage. The town has nothing to offer other than the boundary waters. The taxes in this place, in this place is absurd. And they seem to be used in frivolous ways, you know, like putting out campaigns with fucking billboards to get the fucking Olympics for a small town. That shit's expensive.


I mean, small town coffers don't have that kind of money. What are they spending money on in this city?


Are you going to put up the diplomats from foreign countries that it's all I can do at Western? All your fucking hoax is Jesus Christ. The local government is just a bunch of good ol boys stuck in the 1960s. The only people who do well in this town are resort owners and people lucky enough to have landed a mining job in Silver Bay or some other area. Mine lucky enough. Those are the the wo the man that's while those are the people who do well.


Fuck, that's well in this town is you, because you get to be lowered into the ground. I understand it's a lot of places that's where the only good job is as far as you can support your family.


But when you put the words lucky on someone who lowers themselves into the ground every day in the dangerous job, I don't know if Lucky's the right term. They're happy to have a job, I'm sure, but they'd rather probably do something above ground floor or something like that. I don't know. I'm not I don't know, though.


Maybe they're driving one of those giant trucks down into a huge pit. Yeah, that's a tough job, too. Yeah, that is half of those fucking roads into the side of those ledges. Anything mining or so it's. No, I think it looks scary.


Yeah. People in this town population wise are three thousand four hundred twenty five people, so it's pretty small up there and down 14 percent since 1990. And they want the Olympics get the Olympics.


They're obviously kidding, but still shut up about it. More males and females. And that's a lot of due to the mining and all the jobs here are either tourism related or they're like some crazy outdoor Pol Pot.


But the heavy lifting something or other. Yeah, mining, lifting lumber, that sort of shit, agricultural, forestry, that sort of shit. Median age here, older too. It's almost forty seven here, which is about ten years older than the norm. All the demographics, over fifty five are high. All the demographics under the age of 55 are all low.


So it's a lot of people, people stay here and die here. Not really a place where you know, like you would have your beard. Thirty two and you got like a couple and they have a couple of kids and they go, let's move to Italy. Yeah. That's going to be that's not they're not on your own starting out now.


Yeah. Going to land in Italy. It's just not going to happen unless you need a mining job and that's where you got one. So married population is about normal. It's almost 50/50 still. But there are less single people have no children, only five percent. So if you're going out to the bars looking for some fellow no children and single people, good luck with the race of this town. Ninety seven point six percent white.


Really, that is pretty fucking white. Steaming white point six percent black. And they only they know that because even if the black people didn't want to be seen, they're just in the snow. Yeah. So they're like they're we got one there and one here and. Yeah. Got them because everything is just bright white. There is no point four percent Asian. Not a lot there either. It's, it is zero point five percent Hispanic. Wow.


It's just a lot of white people. Forty seven percent of the people here are religious because there is no God underground. Everybody we know that. But then the lakes are beautiful there though now 47 percent religious. It's a good mix of there's some Catholics, some Lutherans and Methodists here and there. You got a couple of Presbyterians and not many Mormons, one point three percent Jewish. So I'm not going to get a Hava Nagila this week out of that.


But point two percent Islam to. OK, so I don't know. It's funny to move to the Middle East. No. Now, unemployment rate in this town is a little bit higher than normal. Kind of ebbs and flows work. Seasonal work is as a thing here. The median income is low here, though. The rest of the country, it's fifty seven thousand six fifty two. Here it is, thirty six thousand one 79, much lower, pretty low for household income.


Most of the households make under fifty thousand dollars a year. A lot of the jobs are tourism related food services, you know, accommodations. That's you work at a hotel here. You sell fucking knickknacks. Right. You know that as you sell shit with, like, wood on it. Right. Because you live in the woods. It's the woods.


I picture this like the great outdoors. Yeah. Town almost. Right. Yeah, kind of like just a lot of trees and a lake.


Teenagers kissing on a veranda. Yeah. Like pool cues going into crotches you know. Exactly. Cost of living in this town, she had some talk in those hips, sheets spun, she flew thung that that thing went for the Olympic javelin throwers. She killed somebody, I think the bouncer.


Something. Something. And nobody even questioned that. Nobody came over there. Everything all right?


No cost of living in this town is about 80. 100 is regular. PA housing is low, though. It's a fifty one. Yeah. And the median home cost here is one hundred eighteen thousand nine hundred dollars Varya for so very affordable. They said the taxes were expensive. But I mean, your house costs nothing. So what do you want. You had to pay for something. They gave you a home. Yeah.


I mean I get that you don't care about the Olympics, but come on, around half the houses here are worth under 100000 dollars.


So that's got to be tiny, though, right?


I mean, that's the thing. Some of them are big and on bigger property and some of them are these tiny, like little kind of thing. Well, you know what?


Let's find out. All right. With for you the Ely, Minnesota real estate report.


Your average two bedroom rental here goes for about seven hundred seventy dollars, which is about five hundred below the national average. That's not bad at all. Pretty good.


I found a three bedroom, three hour, two bath set, 1176 square foot. It's a tiny little house with a tiny little yard. And there's another tiny little house, a tiny little yard right next to it. It's their little tiny houses in a row here. But they're nice. They're clean little nice houses, one hundred three thousand dollars.


So, I mean, it's not that bad little house, especially if you're retired or something that's perfect.


Found a three bedroom, two bath and seventeen hundred seventy one square foot home. It's not so nice is that one though. It's a little rundown. It's not quite as uncapped, as bigger, but it's bigger. One hundred thirty five thousand dollars little work. That would be fine. Sure. Then I found this shit. Yeah. Three bedroom, three bath. Thirty six hundred square feet. Wow. Beautiful. This is a picture.


This is. Look at the a box up to your backyard. Yeah. A big giant beautiful fucking lake. Is that surrounded by beautiful trees that the water's James.


That is the boundary. I don't know if that's about it.


It's a you're looking out at two eyelids for fuck's sake. Beautiful.


It's like on this dirt road and then you have you back up to the lake. It is. Somebody just painted the trees. It's beautiful. Freshly painted trees over an acre of land to all. So no one can live right on top of you. Nine hundred and fifty thousand bucks.


Hell, yeah. So if you want to live here on the lake, I mean, that's expensive, obviously, but you're going to. What do you want. That's how I want to retire. Right. There's beautiful every amazing place to retire.


I want to quit. All of you know all of it. Damn it. You're all going down things to do. First of all, just outdoor shit and canoeing. This is an outdoor easy type of play.


They have a winter festival, a winter celebration that's there to celebrate winter where they have ice carvings and shit like that.


Oh, God, they love the freezing cold shiver all day. Another thing they have this. I just love the name of it. It's the Harvest Moon Festival, which reminds me of the feast of the Hunter's Moon. Right. Anything with a moon in it. I'm into that festival.


I want to find out more about it. And that's in fall. That's in autumn in Italy.


Also brings the Harvest Moon Festival, which takes place the first weekend after Labor Day. This is a three day. It's still summer in Phoenix. They consider that I get it in the right, 12 degrees there. Yeah, yeah. Here. It's like, well, we hope it gets under one hundred and ten in the next month and a half, literally. That's what we're worried about.


It's a three day festival filled with arts, crafts, food, live entertainment and activities to share with the family and friends of all ages. Bring your old folks down here. Over ten thousand people join us. Holy shit. Wow. To enjoy this beautiful fall weather, that's three times the downside.


They're outsourcing it.


Wow shop. A delightful mix of original arts and crafts, some from over one hundred twenty five local and regional art artists and craftsmen select from functional and decorative pottery.


Functional, functional.


I guess you could use like a pot, I guess like pottery, hand turn, wooden bowls, beadwork, paintings, leather and lots more.


This sounds like shit. This is hippie stuff. It's like old people, like old men that right now we've got the like will stamp your name in your belly. Yeah. Like a big beard and some overalls making shit out of leather. That's what I feel like, that this is like a feed company hat on. It's like Jarome. But like if these people were like, I'm just going to do this for my job. Don't exactly replace hippies for farmers.


That's what you got here. I think that's how that says there will be pony rides and a petting zoo for children and family entertainment by the all-American stunt dog challenge. They're bringing in stunt dogs, dogs that do tricks. The touring, that's the. That's the entertainment. Holy shit, they're doing like stupid human tricks. Yeah, except with dogs, stupid dog tricks. So enjoy live music every day with Timmy House. Hey, us. Yeah. How's the singing Slovenes.


The singing Slovenes.


Oh, my. Oh my God.


If you can handle how they talk, why stick around for how they sing. This is the most aggressive form of of Fourth of July you've ever heard.


That's fucking wild. You're sure to find that perfect piece of art for your home or that unique gift for someone special city ordinance does not allow dogs in the park to fuck. Are you going to have a stunt show? How are you going to have a dog stop shop? There's no goddamn dogs allowed in the park. You can bring them in. But I can't bring my fucking I can't bring my dog where you can bring a whole team of dogs to, I assume, leash list to jump around and do things.


They're going to back flip shit all over this place. But I can't bring my schnauzer.


No bullshit. Another one is the Dorothy Mulcher Museum. That's what this looks like. A lot of shit. That's a museum. Oh yeah.


It's OK. It's a cabin. Barely kind of still.


It's sort of like a it looks like a large, enclosed, enclosed porch. Thompson's a little bit. Yeah. But today the Dorothy Malter Cabin and museum are located. They're known as the root beer lady. She lived for fifty six years on Knife Lake and in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness. Gradually, she gained national prominence and extensive coverage and media books and documentaries over the years as people stopped here to drink her homemade root beer. OK, she makes root beer in that shithole.


She first visited her home on Knife Lake in 1930 and bla bla bla. The Isle Pines Resort was typical of many Northwoods Resort. I want to know more about root beer. That's what I want to drink.


Root beer past age twelve. I mean with ice cream, root beer float. I suppose I like any caffeine sits around and drinks root beer.


We got to stop at that ladies enclosed front porch because she makes root beer on her stove and I need to get some of that. Like that's a weird thing to stop. And what right is it carbonated or is it just some chewing.


Otherwise it would just be like tar. Here we go. You could syrup. I'm just going to go pour. You got a crack out in your driveway. I'm going to go fill that in quick and let it dry. So this is fresh.


Some on your house, lady toilet. There you go. It doesn't look good. Yeah, I Smedes dry. She said it looks like coffee like I know. Oh it's it's really sweet and gross.


So they have a museum now for her. Great. The crime rate in this town, what we're interested in property crime is about one third higher than the national average. Actually a lot of tourists and shit like that. So and a and also, too, you get a lot of miners and you're going to get some. Yeah. Some drunk nights and some public urination, I'm sure, and things like that. But violent crime, murder, rape, robbery and assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime is less than half the national rate under half.


So it's a safe place.


But, you know, somebody might be on some lose a thing. Yeah. Tourists, you know, you figure that that, you know, parking tickets outside the laundromat, that's all going to factor in here. That said, this safe damn near Canadian town up here.


Let's talk about a murder. All right, let's do it.


OK, March 14th, 1975. Let's go back to that 1975 in Ely, Minnesota. Oh, boy. Oh, baby. This is some wild time.


Like, I can't imagine, like, I feel like the 70s wouldn't have really infiltrated here very much.


No, I don't picture a lot of Saturday Night Fever looking motherfuckers walking around easily on March and March of seventy five. This whole area. Yeah. Just come out of the mind of your platforms. I don't see a butterfly collar and your your, your vilvoorde on my crazy get you get your chest out.


I figure this is still a very flannel car kind of place.


Probably it's maybe, maybe some, some thinner dickeys if you're not so inclined. Polyester doesn't seem warm. That's the thing. So I don't think you could really have probably never spread much to Minnesota. A lot of lined whatever whatever the product is, the word line is in it for a line. Yeah. Polyester lined bellbottom disco pants. That would be amazing.


That would be something they probably had that they roll up the sleeves and it's got the plaid underneath for it.


Yeah, they dance together. What's up?


I don't picture that blind comes in everything that they wear. Yes. I don't imagine. I feel like the 70s. They just be watching the rest of the 70s going, Jesus, the world's gone crazy.


You know hell's wrong with those people out there wearing such little amounts of clothing?


That's then they're going to freeze to death. They're going to freeze now. I'm getting frostbite.


Well, if that happens, then you have to pay. You go get frostbite, whatever. Once in a while, you live up there. Now let's talk about this date, March 14th, 1975. It's still very, very, very cold up there, by the way, in March and early March. That's still winter there. There's a car in a parking lot. It's a gold Plymouth duster.


Yeah, it's a duster here is, I don't know, on the air. It's like a, you know, late 60s, early 70s. Beat up duster. Yeah, it's a duster.


And we talk about my friend had the duster and he would I lived in one, he would bash it into garbage cans because it was such a pile of shit and it had a hole in the back floor that people would pay out of.


So there was that was about 13 years old and the duct work for the heater was falling out of the bottom of the place. And that elephant tube that I had in. Yeah, and it had holes all in it. So the vents, whenever you turn the air, the heat on, he didn't come out of there. It came out kind of leaked out after him out of the broken vents, the tubing. So you had to snuggle into the floorboard and rub your hands together against the tubing.


That's a nice one. That's a nice that's my house.


His had the liner all fell in the roof. If that line sticks to go, we just he's like, set it on fire from time to time. So like a blue flame would spread across the car. That's across the phone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Set your car on fire right after I Bastiaan in this mailbox and why you piss out of the hole in the back and you're going to snuggle up to the heater on the floor with a pile of shit.


These cars were hafitz cars and not one of them was painted a decent color, gold, gold, neon fucking blue. My mom's was neon yellow.


Green was brown, I think, or something in there. It was rusty and climate.


So I don't think it mattered at that point. Uster it's a piece of shit.


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Now back to the show. So this car was parked in the co-op store parking lot. Yeah, I assume that's just like a regular kind of a the water company. You know, the co-op. It's like the general store deal here.


This is in Ely, Minnesota, right there. It's parked there in the morning. It apparently had been in this spot since March 9th, since it broke down on March 9th. It's Bukhara since it died there. And people are snuggled up around here. They die as March 9th, 1912. He five is since about ten or ten thirty in the morning. It's the first time it was seen there and it's been there ever since. Yeah. So five days sitting out there as a, you know, a couple of days whenever somebody got dropped off or whatever.


But five days you're like, all right, why is it when the fuck is this car going to going to go away. All the cars, doors are locked. So it's not like you can get in and somebody will look around. So eventually the police are called and when they get there to just see what the fuck's going on, the cops first thing they notice before they even get inside the car is they notice something beneath the trunk of the car and they don't they're like, oh, looks like it's dripping something, but not in a place where oil would be.


It's instead a puddle of frozen blood. Wow. Underneath the trunk of the car area that they find on the ground. So they're like, oh, boy, we should probably get inside this car. And we look say, yeah, yeah.


Otherwise if you just see the car, the doors are locked, you go, I don't know, do you want to tow it or not? Yes. The owner, if you want to tow it and if they do, then they'll tow it. Otherwise, I don't know what you want from me. It's bleeding so we should take it. If it's bleeding. We're going to take a look inside, make sure see what the hell's going on here.


Why is this guy. There's a duster bleeding in the parking lot. We got questions for this car. We got to ask this car a couple questions. Either we have another problem or this car's in terrible shape. Someone's done something very bad to it.


Either way, it's a Goba that needs a fixing.


Are you are you a transformer? Are you what can I do to make you turn into a robot? Are you Bumblebee? Can I help you? Do you need a paint job?


Are you fucking with that other one? I can't remember that one was thinking of an old actual transformer.


It was gold. It's got to be bubbleheads I'm sure. No, no. There was another one that was like it wasn't a it wasn't Bumblebee. There's another guy who was a car. It's like a kind of a shittier lower level of transformer.


So all the doors are locked. They noticed the blood dripping. So they go in the car and nothing is in the car. They pop the trunk. Different story there.


They find a young man in the trunk. Yep. Not alive, obviously. And leave me a strange place to camp for five days in the freezing trunk with his blood dripping out of you. It's a guy named Jeffrey Getas, GeoEye, Z getters. That's how it's pronounced. He's nineteen years old, Jeff. And he is he is very much deceased in the trunk of this car. There is almost no blood left in his body. It's all in the trunk.


It's all in the trunk and on the ground and somewhere else too. That's the other thing. It's not all in the trunk. It's not all on the ground. All the blood that he should have had that he's no longer does. Yeah. So there must be blood somewhere else. So, yeah, they find him there. He, like I said, in bad shape. We'll get to the autopsy in a moment. His wallet is not missing.


He's still got his wallet in his back pocket, which is strange. And they do a little research here by going into the glove compartment and finding the registration and find out this is his car. So he is stuffed into the trunk of his own car with no blood left in his body. Strange, not the thing you'd expect to find in the truth co-op parking lot here. So they do an autopsy. Obviously, the autopsy reveals that the cause of death is blood loss from multiple wounds.


There's a wound two and three quarter inches long on each side of his head. Oh, think about that. Which fractured the skull and bruised the brain. Wow. That's like Carita. Two and three quarters. Like on each side. Yeah. Like, you know, like a hatchet. Oh, no. The length of a thing.


Both sides of the head, a massive gaping wound which went from the back of the neck around to the right side, cut the muscles of the neck down to the backbone, cut the mastoid bone and the skull and penetrated the brain. Mind more. Think about that. What a violent. Yeah. How the force you would have to have. That's like trying to decapitate somebody. Yeah, that's like a failed attaining.


It's a rage, rage filled murder. That seems like somebody with a, you know, like a broadsword coming at you, like focused on the head and neck area.


It's wild. The police are the pathologist believe the wounds were caused by a sharp weapon with considerable force.


No shit recall. Yeah. Good call. College. Wow, that's a you're a doctor, right? And that's why we got that sweet Jesus. There were also large cuts on the left side of the face and neck. Think pretty soon they're going to say it's not a suicide. They're going to classify it as a homicide, really blow our our minds here with their expertise.


There are large cuts on the left side of the face and neck, one of which broke the jaw bone in two teeth with a cut out.


That's a wow.


The force of these of these blade attacks here. That's wow. In the opinion of the pathologist, the wounds were probably. Caused by a double edged knife, applied with great force, in addition, various lacerations, bruises, cuts were found which, according to the pathologist, were incurred while Guterres was trying to defend himself from the attack. And this is there's a lot here. The pathologist calls this a defensive wound. Get his left thumb was missing.


Oh, no. Just gone. They never found this thumb. It's not in the trunk with him. And it wasn't like in his pocket or something, you know, stuffed in his shirt pocket. It was taken just not around. So thumb is missing and sliced off like it was a defensive wound came off. If somebody with, like, a sword was attacking you, you would maybe lose your thumb like that. Hair stuck to the hand indicated that Getas probably had his hand to his head trying to ward off the blows because his hand was like stuck to his head with blood and holy fuck, man.




When they found him till he was frozen solid, he was fucking frozen. It was say they had to farm out like Frankie Kabalan and Goodfellas to give them a goddamn autopsy march in Minnesota. Yeah, it was for five days in a trunk frozen solid.


He also he said Getas had been alive when he was placed in the trunk. That's fucked up. That's fucked up.


So not only did all of these horrible things happen, he had survived this vicious attack and then was stuffed into a trunk and left there to bleed out and die and freeze to death.


I mean, that's that's bad. Can it get worse? Yeah. Based on the stomach contents, the pathologist testified that Getas could have died any time between. And this guy has this is there.


I really find it hard to believe a pathologist said this exact amount of thing between the blood loss and the freezing. I would say you're full of shit. And he gets that because pathologists will tell you like it's a time of death is unless the conditions are 68 degrees and this and that, then we can tell exactly if you add in warm spot for a while, then frozen that we have no fucking idea. Throw in some rain, throw in some rain outside decomposition.


Is it hot? Did it go faster? They go by bug growth. You can tell a certain amount by that. But what if they were frozen first and now they're not and now they it's who knows? So to say, they died between four a.m. and 10 a.m. on March 9th, to put it within six hours, just four days before. And then he says there's an eighty five percent probability that he died before eight a.m. on that day.


So between four and ten, but most likely between four and eight.


If my calculations are off, they may have been between eight and ten, but I think or the next day because he's frozen goddamn solid. So when someone's frozen solid, you can't see how they can do this in a week's time, giving a better window of time of death as the cable company when they arrive of anybody, when they fucking unbelievable.


This is I'm sorry, the based on the stomach contents, I get it that they go by the digestion and the thing. But he's frozen solid, man. There's no way you're putting it. That's I mean, the ice man used to freeze people solid on purpose because like six months because it would mess up the time of death. So you don't know when. I don't know whatever. You can't there's no there's no insect growth. There's no like maggots.


So you can't tell by that. There's no anything here. The pathologist concluded that two weapons were probably used here, a double edged knife and an instrument with a broad flat blade that could make. Yeah, two and three quarter inch lacerations that can penetrate your skull makes like a yeah.


Like a like a hatchet. Like an ax like that, that sort of thing. A big sword, something of that nature. So is this young man, Jeff Getas. Let's find out who he is and where he's from. Jeffrey Goldberg Getas is his name is a Jew. Geoffrey with a G, Jeffrey with a J. OK, which is strange because he's got double jeopardy past that didn't want to be triple G. I guess his parents, they were kind to him.


You know, he's born March 8th. Nineteen fifty six. He's got a little brother, Jay, and an older sister Rose. Rose is the reason why he's in this area. Rose had moved to the Eilidh area with her husband. And, you know, Jeffrey's nineteen and where he was, there wasn't a lot going on. So we heard there was jobs in the mines up there. So he said, I'll go hang out up there, I'll stay with my sister and hang out.


So that's what he does. He means other checks and shit like that. Yeah, there's all sorts of vibes. Swedish chicks, they pull out of mines, you know, works. And he's also got at least two older brothers that I can figure out here.


His dad, Stan, is a miner. Stan the miner. Yeah. And his mom, Katie's a homemaker, of course. Katie and Stan and homemaker and a miner there that's, you know, salt of the Earth, baby.


Sounds like he came back from World War Two. Yeah, got a job in the mine and started plowing away and making as many kids as he could. OK, so it sounds like Jeff and Jay were close to his younger brother by a few years, but they were close. They hunted and fished in the woods and did all that kind of shit together. They they hung out, rode snowmobiles and. Yeah, kind of had that kind of life, right?


Yeah. They had a fun. That sounds like a fun life, but the teenage life hunting and fishing and snowmobiling and motorcycles and shit and dirt bikes, that's cool. They, they this is I don't know how this came about.


This is incongruous, I think where they hunted and fish together in the woods near their house, rode snowmobiles and motorcycles. They also modeled shorts and fashion shows on the stage at the local theater.


Oh, that's weird. Why? It's like a school thing.


It's like an in between or some sort of charity event where to school fashion trying to get the girls accentuate the balls. That's so weird. Shorts. It's nineteen seventy three in Minnesota. What are you putting shorts on. And those are short shorts.


That's, I mean those are, those aren't like 73 shorts or the your balls are going to come out like in The Inbetweeners again. It's a lot of breeze on the nuts. It's a lot of not breeze I got to say. So anyway they model shorts, they spent their summers together up in this area visiting their sister Rose. They come up there for the summer, do all this shit outdoors in the woods. And then Jeff graduated from high school and said, fuck, yeah, I'm moving to Ely so I can become a taconite miner.


Taco Taco night. It's spelled Taco and it's Taco Night. He's mining taco night. That sounds delicious. Yeah, I want to do everybody. Is there a job out there? I can have a taco night mine because that sounds wonderful. What does Taco Night go on? It's a supreme face.


There's tomatoes in here. This is great. Oh, there's sour cream. I want to dig. There's sour cream everywhere. I hit the sour cream vein and now it's over. Jesus Christ. Watch out. Here we go.


Taco night going on. It's pouring out. What does that go? It's got to be a rock. Right.


And I it's I guess it's they're pulling it from the ground. They're mining it. So I don't know. But it's delicious. I've never heard of Taco Night, but it sounds amazing. I really just say it sounds like you come up every day, man. How was work today. Delicious. It smelled amazing. It was so good. I'm telling you. It was it was great. I had so many tacos.


So on his 19th birthday, which was March 8th, nineteen seventy five, Jeffrey was going to go out and party and do some stuff. Rose and her husband gave him a birthday present. All right. They gave him a bottle of banana liquor. What, gross. Ninety nine bananas, banana liquor. Like banana schnapps or something. That's disgusting. That's disgusting. That's Larry Sanders with tank bottom of the rung booth.


What did Hank do?


Hank was on the couch crying and he was drinking is the only thing in his school drinking banana liquor. And his assistant comes in and he's like, oh, my God, Hank, what are you doing? What are you drinking? And he goes, it's it's pouring out of the car. He goes, My breath smells like a monkey's asshole.


I crying, he starts sobbing like a monkey's asshole.


I love Jeffrey Tambor. Anyway, he's fantastic. So at the end of the night, his breath smelled like a monkey's asshole that, you know, for that has confirmed. That's a confirmed fact. Happy birthday. Happy birthday.


Are you go banana lick your gross. Why would someone drink that? That's his drink of choice. Because he's nineteen. He's not twenty one. He doesn't know any better now but nineteen. That's drinking. Age was 18 back then in the 70s. Right. Yeah. Fuck yeah. Oh Jesus. Yeah. This was especially if they could have given him whiskey and they gave him that, they gave him banana liquor containment.


Think about that. Here you go sonny boy. Now he works in the mines. He's got enough to work in the mines. You drink but not banana liquor.


Don't drink that down with the fellows that work in the mines. Let us say, if you've brought that around your miner friends, I feel like in the 70s, I feel like they got well, la di da I liquor.


They're going to pants you and drag you ass through the fucking snow.


Let me ask you a question, Jeff. What part of San Francisco you buy that bottle of banana liquor and did it come with a big purple dildo or what came in a box.


You get banana liquor and a dildo. Did you get that from your boyfriend or did you buy it for him? Which one? Right. Could he give it to you or do you give it to him? Which one is it? You know, in the 70s, these miners would not. Oh, boy. Very progressive, I can imagine. And it's disgusting. It's not good stuff.


It's I mean, Bonanos, any kind of liquor is terrible. That's Anana extra gross.


What does that mean. Why is it liquor instead of liquor. Does that just mean it's too old. More sugar than supposed to be. Probably it also means it's for women. Well, back then was out. It was maybe or is it a mixer of some sort mixer or was it like for a specific thing, like, did you have it like after a meal you wanted to taste like bananas for the rest of I don't know what year.


Ninety nine bananas is one of the worst things ever made. What is that. It's that it's bananas. Oh it's a banana. Looking like I'll buy you a little shot of it. I am not all over it. You smell it because it's like no sex. They almost give it away but you buy a Pepsi that comes with a nine and a banana comes with that.


And a purple dildo.


Yeah, yeah.


It's a spinning one on and there you go. Take some days and the guy fell in the back. Wants to give you his number.


He said, yeah, I say you're going like I mean he's a he likes the stuff. My feller is how they'd name him the guy feller. He says he'll drink it with you. He said, come on back here, bring your liquor.


And also Benilde, he will put that shot in his mouth and then spit it back into it.


It's going to be sexy. That's what I feel like. These guys would be back like. Absolutely.


They would make fun of his liquor, but apparently he didn't care and he drank it that night. Oh, man. 19TH birthday. Whoo! Banana on the card. Glug, glug, glug.


You're going to wake up and hate yourself. Imagine the banana liquor hangover. What that's like. Now imagine the taste in your mouth from banana liquor vomit. I think about that now.


The taste is so sweet but not of sight.


Know I threw up but I got I taste like it tastes like a monkey's ass.


Oh that's the nastiest. That would be the worst. I can't tell. I was going to say I don't know if it would be better to have like a fruity tastier vibe and I don't think so. I don't think you want to know because the worst thing that ever happened to me one time was I threw up after a Lucky Charms.


Oh, no, I, I forgot. It was like a couple hours earlier and I threw up and I thought I was dying because I had like this rainbow colored drop because oh my God, what the fuck is wrong with me. And then I went, oh I lucky. That's right. OK, it really scared me though. I thought I was a lot I had a real problem like this. Every color of the rainbow. God, there's pink cards, yellow balloons aren't stars and green clovers.


Oh, they do shots of Soko and lime and that's the worst thing you'll ever throw up.


Oh it's it's Berney on the. It's everywhere. It tastes like stomach acid going down. Yeah. And it gets worse when it comes but tastes like bile. It's so bad it's not good. It's a very terrible memory.


I enjoyed my I don't know what's wrong with your daughter.


I used to get thrown out of places like drinking fucking Southern Comfort and wine.


I was a psychopath. What is wrong with you Jimmy. You are.


That is I'm telling you, I would love to go back and beat the shit out of 21 year old me. At least that sounds like your latest attack. Maybe twenty three. Twenty three and younger. Could have used a good ass weapon from like future me. Anybody else. I wanted to give it a fuck future.


You if you come back and be like, yeah, I like dude from the future, I promise you don't do this, don't do this.


But if you do it then everything will work out fine. But you'll be miserable now. Yeah. I mean you might need this for that. And so never mind. Keep going.


That's going to taste bad in a few hours. So you have the opposite approach.


My approach is always if I could go back I go do less. Yeah, even more. It doesn't matter. Nothing you're doing here is going to accomplish anything you will do nothing that matters to yourself or your anything until you're like in your late thirties. So fuck off all you want. Now that's what I want. It's all myself. Stop trying. Stop it. Survive for now. Get to your thirties and then you'll start doing better. But until then, it's going to be a mess, right?


I'm going to be a bitch.


You're going to hate everything I enjoy and don't marry or don't marry her and try to do more drugs because it's going to help your your sanity has been so.


Yeah, they banana liquor pulled out of the taco night mine. There you go. She said that he drank it that night. Now let's introduce you to somebody else. Yeah. Roy, Eric Walberg.


Like, like ballpark. Mark Wahlberg, Donnie Wahlberg, same spelling.


Roy Roy. What's the next words out of my mouth. So Roy Roy Wahlberg. That's amazing.


By the way, recently Goldie Hawn got a dog and named it Roy, so evidentally amaze her favorite line, too. Is it really it has to be fucking hilarious. No way that it's not. It's the greatest delivery. I just that's one of those things where you like as a fan, you know, whatever you would if you have, you would never bring that up to somebody because they go, I don't even remember that line. Right.


But it's the funniest line in that evidentally it's got to be her favorite thing she's ever said.


To look on her face is so like, oh, yeah, she sizes him up and everything. Roy, obviously, it's. All right. I don't know, though, and I don't care to say so anyway, Roy Roy's mom's name.


Oh, my God, this is bad. His name, Broyd. Eric Wolberg. That sounds fine. His mom's name, Myrtle Kangas. Well, yeah. Myrtle Kangas. Jesus.


Oh, Myrtle here. Myrtle where he Roy's a young child compared to his other his other siblings. He's he's got two older sisters, Judy and Joan, who were 12 and nine when he was born. So he's he's a.. He's the baby. Yeah. And, you know, obviously, by the time he's 10 years old, they'll both be out of the house.


So it's one of those the one woman here says that this is Roy's mother's girlfriend or girlfriend's mother, mother's girlfriend, girlfriends, his girlfriend's mother, his girlfriend's brother, Roy, is twenty three at this time.


He's a few years older than Jeff here. She says, to quote, His sisters told Roxann, which is Roy's girlfriend at the time, that when Roy was born, it was like they didn't exist anymore. Yeah, so the mother. Got a boy, she had two two girls and she had this boy and she just doted on him and gave all our attention to him and kind of ignored the daughters of at least according from their point of view, they said that he would they would smother with lavished attention on him so much.


And Roy Senior, because he's a junior, this guy that we know from crime and sports could be a problem.


Tara Roy Senior kept his hands out of it. He didn't even bother trying to fight the whole thing because he was like, Myrtle wouldn't let Roy have any discipline. You leave that boy alone. And he was like, fine, he's yours. I don't fucking care what my name. It's all I give a shit about.


That's it, he said. And later Roy will say, quote, Potch dear speare walleyes and shoot deer out of season. That's all my dad taught me. OK, shoot to your out of season to season. Yeah. Illegal game. Oh, illegal game. Yeah, absolutely. I guess I live in the woods and he's like, I guess that's kind of a little knock on his dad trying to say his dad was kind of. Yeah. Not up and up completely here.


Now his girlfriend's mother will say he had a problem at home. His dad never did nothing to reprimand him or anything. His dad never did didn't never did do nothing to reprimand him or nothing. I'll tell you what. Or nothing. Or nothing. Oh, boy. One time Roxann went out to his house with him. That's his girlfriend. I don't know what he had done, but his mother kept a hollering to his father, get the belt.


Get the belt. Oh, boy. That's a safe.


Oh, no, you've kept a holler.


And that's what she says. Kept kept hollering to the father, get the belt, get the belt. OK, but the father didn't budge. He didn't do nothing. She went and she got the belt and she started hitting him in front of Roxann, who was standing by the door. Well, anyway, then I suppose he was very embarrassed. So he got up and he went into the bedroom and he came out with a gun and he calmly told his mother he was going to kill her.


He did this in front of his girlfriend. OK, well, first he got his ass kicked in front of his girlfriend. Oh, yeah. Let's just go over this scenario very quickly here.


Again, just just to just to back it up without a character voice or anything like that.


His mom was mad at him for something, told his dad to get the belt. His dad didn't do it. So his mom got a belt, started hitting him. This is while he's a teenager. Now he's got a girlfriend and all that 20 years old or something.


He goes in his room to get a gun to tell his mother, I'm going to kill you while dad still while dad still hasn't moved and his girlfriend is standing in the doorway, like, what kind of white trash insanity have I gotten myself attached to get back to heehaw?


Imagine being a girl, a young girl, and you go to your boyfriend's house and this is what's going on in front of you. Holy shit. I'd be running across the yard. So, yeah, this is what happened. So this woman says his mother back down and they left. Roxann was just flabbergasted when she come home. She was very shook up when she come home, by the way, not came home. When she come home, she was very shook up.


No shit.


I would be to your boyfriend just threatened to kill his mom in front of you after she beat him with a belt.


Right. What is happening in this town? Like what's going on?


Roy's mother would call the girlfriends of the girlfriend's house there repeatedly. If her son was late getting home on a work night, she would just call over there, say, hey there, see there, see there, over and over.


She appeared behind their house once taunting him outside the car where he was parked with Roxann. Like talking shit to him, why would she do that, because she's apparently a fucking nut job. Apparently the mother is Mertle Kangas is out there by all accounts.


I don't know if it's a fact, but it definitely doesn't sound normal by what these people are saying. So they said he took refuge in their house until his mother started calling again and wouldn't stop at 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning. Roy went home, finally gave up and said she's not going to quit. I just got to give up and go home.


She smoked him out. She smoked him out. Yeah, she she he tried to run away and she didn't take she just called the house all night, the girlfriend's house, until it was like, fine, I'll leave you.


You're bothering everybody. Not yup. The girlfriend's mother said, quote, I told my husband, as long as she's alive, I'll never be better. The the only thing that that boy would ever say to about the mother, to the girlfriend's mother was, quote, She's a wonderful person. She's just wasn't a very good mother. That's what he would say.


So he could have could have had a better home life, I would say, than this. But I mean, I've heard worse. Yeah. On this show. Sure. We've heard way worse.


I mean, this, but not much. I mean, from the he's not getting beat is bad. There's no physical kind and it's just kind of torment, weird redneck environment with a mother who has mental issues and obviously has some sort of strange, you know, not even co-dependency, but some kind of weird, like a bizarre fixation on a bizarre fixation on the it's a good way to put it. Very, very strange here. So now Roy's friends thought the opposite.


They loved his mom. She's hilarious. They did. They said Roy's mom was, you know, always behind him, guy named Phil Potter, Joy who who was best friends with Roy, along with a guy named Red Nelson. Yeah, Red Redvale Roy are all going to have Roy bunch of single syllable names. That's it.


But Will Red's real name is Daniel OK? You don't call him Dan because there's already there's already a Dan. Yeah. And you know his hair red so we can call him red and Danny's a little boy's name and it's a little boy's name. You know, Danny know Dan sounds like I don't know, like you like you, like you wear like a Thai places and they like you. So, you know, red will go red.


Perfect. Because your hair's red. Yeah.


So and all the cells. Your neck. Yes. So all your flannel, your hair, your neck and your flannel all match. So I figured I'd just call you that.


So I guess he said this Phil Potter Joy. He said that at the time everybody envied Roy, they said everybody envied Roy for his looks. Yeah. Said he was a handsome guy. He was charming. Yeah. He had a cool car. They said he had the family's cabin was on the lake like they had like he had all these advantages for this area, like weather. Like he a fucking hall. He was like a cool dude with a cool car.


Cool place to hang out. Minnesota rock star. That's it. They said his mother was behind him always. You know, they didn't realize that it was a more obsessive relationship than they realize. They just realized it is like, oh, wow, mother does stuff for him. Look at that. So they said, wow. They said, quote, A lot of things I did with him that have affected me to this day is one of his friends said, this is the Phil Potter joy.


Mainly, he said, bad treatment of women that they used to do together. That was Roy was definitely the the instigator of it. So he said, well, this guy says, quote, My wife says, I don't have any respect for women. And I guess I don't. My wife says that that's my wife says I don't and I guess I don't. He says that's how he starts this little description.


My wife said my wife says I don't have respect for the women and they don't. She would know she's right and she's right.


She know my wife. So. Yeah, and I guess I don't basically I'm a pretty good guy, except for the fact that I don't have any kind of consecutive sentences. I don't have my wife says I don't respect her and I don't. I'm a pretty good guy, though. Well, except for the fact that you don't respect me.


I'm a great guy if you're a guy. Yeah, that's that's.


Yeah, I guess that's what I think that's what it is. Yeah. You know, if you're it's that someone should do he's a good dude, you know. He does that with women. Why. I don't know about that. He's a good dude. He's nice to me. It's one of those things awful. So basically I'm a pretty good guy, but there's deep down things that we did with women. Oh, what?


Deep down the back. Oh, he's so gross. This isn't me. Yeah. OK, cool quote. Serial sex with a fat gal in town in the back of Wahlberg's van.


Was one of them serious. What is that serial. Not like with a bowl of cereal like they would one after the other. They would, I think, run a train on on a, quote, fat gal and pound in the back of the van whenever they felt like.


That's fat in Minnesota, that's third's good shape in Minnesota. It's one of the healthiest country. Yeah, I was going to say I don't know. I don't know. I was trying to think like to know answer to that. I don't know. She's probably. Who cares? Yeah, she's probably a big girl. I'm sure there's heavy girls. I'm sure she's a happy girl. It doesn't matter either way. Don't do that and don't be mean to them.




That's my point. That's the point. You're saying something like that about somebody that's willing to fuck you and your friend. He's almost saying he feels bad, but not.


That's what I mean. This is a weird statement, though. I guess I don't basically I'm a pretty good guy. But there's some things deep down we did with women, serial sex with a fat girl, a fat gal in town in the back of Wahlberg's van. I saw him get rough with Roxann a couple of times. That's his girlfriend, whose mother, whatever, his girlfriend who witnessed the abuse there, he said that Wahlberg wanted to keep it quiet.


He said, quote, He had an image. Nothing seemed to bother him. Nothing seemed to bother him was his image. And he was there to help people. He wanted people to think that. So he's got a definite like he wants to be a certain, you know, have this people think of him as like, oh, he's a nice guy and he's handsome and everybody likes him. He wants to be this perfect guy. But he's also treats women like shit and, you know, hits his girlfriend.


And, you know, that's not cool. So, I mean, a lot of people are like that.


They said whatever, you know, hatred. This guy said he treated women like shit, but women were all over him all the time. Like, he couldn't they couldn't get enough of him all the time. That exactly. He says, quote, No one had his charisma and no one since this guy has never seen his charisma before or since. Never. He's a pussy. Babe Ruth. That's what he said.


It just a flock. Well, the way he put it was a pussy. Moses only did he run? He said, quote, People followed him like Moses or something. He's so he likes to park the knees. That's good. Is he really he parts of the vagina, the vaginal.


See, he parts of the lips is what he does.


And that's what he is. I was going to pay for that. Oh yeah. I nailed it. He got exactly where he was going with it. You know, dirtbag's one thing Jimmy knows it's white trash.


I really know the worst in society. Growing up in Phoenix really gives you an insight into white trash like nothing else.


This is this place is like it's where they go. It's like a magnet for whatever it is. It's like the like the it's like it's like Oakland in the sixties. That's what it is. It's like we Phoenix now is Oakland in the this is where the Canadian geese go. Yes. If white trash were Canadian geese, white trash flock sounds in the winter collect in the last bastion of what they deem as they are quote unquote freedom.


It's true. Fuck you leave. OK, stop it. Stop. Bring your heel. Bellary from around the country.


I know too much about you.


You goddamn help silencing people followed him like he was Moses.


Let's see Moses. I see Moses spread the knees.


I will spread that. I wish I could name this episode Pussy Moses. I don't think I can.


Can you call a spread in the 70s? Probably not so high, he said.


In high school, though, Roy was a loner who played the French horn. So you're not getting a lot of women playing the French horn in high school? You know, it's very, very few.


He called them, quote, clean cut, straight laced. All the little old ladies liked him. There he is.


That he's that kind of he was a nice boy, polite, nice. Got my French horn under my arm. Yeah. But then after that, they said that he while this is the crux of it, they said this is funny. A darker version of him came back after a year at college. Yep. A darker version. Who the ladies all love. He went to Concordia College in Moorhead, Minnesota for a year. Yeah. And came back with a totally new vibe, totally new backpack full of banana.


Lacau Well, he's said now this guy, he was doing drugs now. Oh, he got into drugs and of course, dabbling in Satanism a little just back then, in the 70s, it seemed like if you told a certain type of girl that, you know, you knew a little Satanism that made her like, oh, he's dark and like, you know, blah, blah, blah, like that seem like a thing back then that was like, cool.


He's got a snake. Oh, yeah. Oh, he's so interesting. Oh, man. I bet he keeps snakes in his van. I bet his whole I bet his van has the thickest shag carpeting on the walls in the back. Oh baby. I can't wait to get in the back of that van.


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And let's get back to the show. So, yeah, that's what was going on here.


He start he comes back a different guy, you know, one year in Moorhead, Minnesota, all the time it's all took came back no longer a French horn playing nerd. Now he's he's in the dark. He's like he's like some sort of like Johnny Depp character, like back when he was not, you know, after Gilbert. Great.


Back when he was still considered attractive to the world back then. That's what he comes back. So he he said that he kind of told everybody about it. They went on a smelting trip to Lake Superior. Oh, I guess to get Smeltz little fish.


Is that it? Or are they go they smelting shit down. Yeah. Like Melchett down.


I only think that it would probably be to get smelt because it's to the lake.


Yeah. Unless they've got some factory out on Lake Superior, I don't know. Maybe so either way it's off we go. Smelt some things down on the lake now. So they go on a smelting trip to Lake Superior, this pottery guy said he said when he and Roy stopped in a local bar, he said only earlier that day he found out Roy was carrying a pistol as well. Yeah. And he said that night the dance floor was packed and, you know, it was loud.


Everybody's dancing there, you know, fucking in a local bar, like people having fun and dancing during this Roys dancing to he pulls his gun out y points it above his head and starts firing shots into the ceiling while everybody's dancing. What the fuck, Roy, what the fuck are you doing. We're trying to have it. And then. And then. And this isn't a what are you doing.


Oh no. Yeah, it's so this Potter Joyce says, quote, He's in there going, bang, bang, bang. People lived up there and he's shooting through the floor. What the fuck? There's a bubble in apartment. Oh, my God. Above the place. He's not shooting it outside or into the, you know, whatever. He's shooting it through somebody's floor. Oh, my God. Imagine that. Popping that thing to the crib.


I think it's bad enough that you live above a bar where everybody is singing and dancing and screaming and everything, but now they're shooting guns through the floor. I'm moving. Wow. So he says, quote, He was a crazy guy, a fun loving, crazy guy. So much fun. Just so much fun. My God. He said that he called Wahlberg had called himself a hope to die druggie by this point.


So this is a guy who really looks for identity. Yeah. He's you know, all the old ladies like him. He's playing the French horn. He's getting good grades, goes to college for one year now. He's got a rebel, comes back saying he knows about Satan carrying a pistol fire and shots on the dance floor. He's a joke. I'm just a I'm a hopeless druggie. Hope to die druggie. That's how hard I am.


Open in a year. Yeah, in a year. Took him that long. You don't even have a tolerance any year now. Like in a year. If somebody somebody could smoke weed every day for it. I'm just saying we not even a drug dealer.


Oh yeah. He's probably in something harder than that. Yeah, definitely. I know for a fact. What do you mean he could, you could smoke. Weed is the most entry level shit here every day for a year. OK, and you have if you hadn't smoked it before you couldn't hang out with me for an hour. Still every day for a year. I would fucking have you asleep in an hour.


Not enough time to build a thing for you.


You know that for a fact is the way it is. So who said it? Somebody said it for your brother Marv. I can't believe he smokes as much.


I can't do this. I cannot do this. This is all day for him.


But the time before a show, especially before a show, I got to know.


Take it back. My cousin Shannon said, Oh yeah, Shannon for the show. And she smokes a shitload away before the show. She smoked with you and she goes, I don't know. I still I don't know. I still smoking. I don't know why. He just he pulled out another joint, you know. Does he not think everybody's high now? No, I don't know. Not enough. I'm like, he's not yet. No, no, I'm fine.


I'm just it's a live show and I need to, you know, I need to get in the car.


James, this was after this. Everything was done. Oh, good. No, that was done for now. That was the night that I needed it that night. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That was a rocky one. That was technically a bad time. Thanks so much. That was bad stuff. Nice sitting next to us on stage work. The projector man wasn't his fault either. No, but I.


I got a lot of yelling that he burned down the trees. Oh, motherfucker. It was happening. That was on that night on enough weed to cover the mountain.


It needed to be done. I didn't care there. It was a lot of people in there trying to share a forest fire. It was it was it had to be the only way it was going to sanity was going to keep.


So a lot of people liked him still. Now, Roy, though, he says about himself, quote, I was so full of self-hatred that there was no way I could feel love for anyone. I had no respect for me or anyone else. He said he hated Ely, he hated being there, and he didn't like his parents. And he and he worked with his parents, too.


That's the other thing he he like I believe he or his parents run the dairy, the local dairy at this point.


So he is working at the dairy or some shit. It's pretty interesting.


Mom beats the shit out of day and night. Yeah. Boy, with milk bottles like noodles or something.


Wet noodles. Here's a guy here, girl still like them. Two girls are into this guy. There's a woman named Carol Michaels. She is. She met him when she was a kid when he was going out with her sister. Oh, it was her. She was it was her older sister. And she says later on, quote, I first met Roy when I was walking up to my house. He was giving one of my sisters a kiss.


I thought my turn will come. Wow, that's OK.


I got age into that one, too. Wow. Oh, holy shit.


When he's done with her, I am going to smell his fingers, like, really talking about. I don't mean to be crass, but Christ Almighty, my turtle come next I'm going to get into my sister's boyfriend.


That's just weird. Yeah. She said, quote, He was cute, had fast cars and gave good parties. There was a group of girls who are always after him.


She says Roy is killing it. It sounds like he started sneaking drinks while he was young from his parents liquor cabinet, because it's it's it's cold up there. Everybody does that. I think for the last four or five years, he said he'd been drinking hard liquor all the time. And then he said he got into college and now here he got into taking both hallucinogens and amphetamines. Do you want to rack up the hallucinogens, which is basically like a mid 60s Hells Angel cocktail?


But I'm going to trip and be on speed. LSD was the predominant drug that he liked and he liked to take drugs and alcohol at the same time. That was his thing.


And hard liquor and LSD, which don't mix now. It's pointless to drink while you're on acid. Your poison is the phrase. Well, there's also and if you're doing substances, there's always one substance that will dominate the rest of the substances, you know what I mean? Like you could drink a bunch of booze, but if you did two lines of Coke, you wouldn't even know you had any booze in you. Can you feel one hundred percent sober and feel all jacked up because coke trumps booze, you know what I'm saying?


Acid trumps everything. Acid is the umbrella.


There's nothing you can do. You can't affect that that will poke through that acid bubble. You can drink all you want and all you're going to feel is like you're tripping because your body a little affect you, but your brain will not notice it at all.


It'll kill you. It'll kill you, it'll slow down everything and all that.


But your brain won't know. You won't go, man, I'm drunk or I'm dial up fucking tripping. I know a kid in high school.


I, I've this is I know people just like this and grew up with them and this is who I hung out with, assholes like that's for sure. Ingested as much as they could of weird shit.


So I know a guy who he was, he was trippin, he was drinking, he was smoking a ton of weed with dust in it. You're smoking dust once and shit back and this is, you know, eleventh grade or smoke and dust one season.


He's drinking liquor from the bottle, that guy.


And when we left, I was like, man, he must be fucked up. And he goes, I'm tripping my ass off. And I'm like, You drank so much.


He goes, Oh, I'm tripping out. I don't even fucking matter. I don't feel any of that shit. He goes, I'm tripping my balls off.


And that's all that matters.


Has a guy that cannot be sober.


He now hates it and he does fine. Now, if he does, he's a family. He's he's doing great. This is a man needs to do. He used to have a party at his place on a Friday and he would sit with whatever leftover kegs were there and not sleep till Sunday. He would just sit and drink the whole time. And it was a he was a a disaster machine. A machine.


I saw him eat a Wendy's hamburger that had rocks in it because he because he he drove a bike there so he wouldn't get a DUI and he fell over the handlebars and all the food came out, his eyes picking it up out of the dirt and it was all dirt in the hamburgers. What did you do? As he says, you want some burgers? There was like grass and shit. And I'm like, where did you get these hamburgers? And I flipped over the handlebars, man.


I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Your food is trash. Yeah, that's what happened and he's fine. He turned out fine.


I don't know how it happened. He's not fine. He's fine. I see him. He's he's doing OK. He's not fine now. He's got a job and kids and a wife that somehow wants to be with him. It's crazy. I don't know what he's doing, but congratulations to him for figuring it out. He was one guy's like, there's no he used to go to jail just for because he was bored. What? He was taking a lot of stress.


And he'd be like, oh, that's cool. You go for, like his he was always on probation for something. So he goes, I just violate on purpose. You guys put me in for like three months. He goes, I could chill out, like regroup, you know, got no bills, not how he goes out of plan because I know everybody in there. It's cool. Like that was his fucking thing. Like, I'll just go chill is like what?


Who goes to jail just to unwind for a couple of months? That's the weirdest thing. Yeah, that's literally what he did. I don't know. It's kind of like sandals on clothes he'd smoked the night before as his probation.


If he wanted to go back. He goes out to smoke tonight. I'll violate tomorrow. Degenerate sandals. No, that's all degenerate sandals. Degenerate club man. That's exactly what it is. Scum said it's it's a club man. Oh boy.


So he was always partying, doing his thing and taking all this shit is what he says. Now he is living with his parents. His parents own the Eyerly Dairy. Yeah.


I guess where you get all your dairy shit which Roy had been managing for about a year, he's going to take over the dairy eventually. I assume his friends describe him as a, quote, average guy. They said Roy is a peaceful guy. He avoids fights. Yeah. He doesn't really go after anything like that. He's just kind of an average guy. He says, quote, I celebrate every Saturday night, every Saturday. And this particular Saturday in March, March 8th, he celebrated with beer, rum, coke, banana, liquor, speed, weed, and right before attending a party with his girlfriend, a bunch of LSD to it sounds like exactly what with what my friend did minus the Coke, because I don't play that you push it inside me.


Yeah. You're not hanging that fucking hanging out with coke here with me. I don't like coke, but the rest of that stuff go crazy.


So he's he does that shit and take some drop some acid too. Now his girlfriend, Roxann, the one who witnessed the weird shit at his house, Roxann, she says that when he wasn't on drugs, he was a peaceful guy, very easy to talk to. But when he's on acid, he's a different guy. Yeah. He's you know, he's on fucking acid. Right. Obviously, you're not in your right mind if you're on acid.


No. If you're not, you're you're completely a different person. Your focus is elsewhere. You're a four year old. You're a different person. Completely. I've never seen people get, like, real mean or anything nasty. It's usually you get real, like docile on acid is what I've always seen.


You turn a little child like I know a four year old. Yeah, that's it.


Because you're trying to absorb to your new habitat.


That's all. Your brain is completely different. It's totally different. So she said, yeah, nice guy when he's not on drugs. So Roxann, his girlfriend, she and her sister Brenda are driving around ealey drinking beer. Yeah, driving around drinking beer. I mean, it's the 70s. It's what you do, I guess. Yeah, you did. Yeah, I guess. Like even like. Wow. And the dude in the eighties. Yeah.


Driving through the desert, drinking it, you know is a very common thing. It's rural areas. Still have family in Scranton. And I had this cousin that when I was like fourteen they own like this bar down the down whatever. He drove us in the dark through the woods to the bar, drinking, feeding us drinks is underage, very underage kids in the bar. And then shit faced with a drink drove us back through the woods in the pitch black.


So that's just normal. Just a thing that was weird. That's yeah. It's a thing that goes so they're doing that. They see him, they found, they find him, they find Roy and they pick him up, I guess, while they drive. Hey, there's Roy, there's your boyfriend. You should pick him up, OK? They pick him up. He told them that he dropped two hits of acid before he left home.


Yeah. So he's going to be tripping pretty hard. I'm having fun, Roxann. She'll say later on that he giggled. He was giggling and acting a little funny. He's trippin. That's your first hour of trip. And once it starts and everything's hilarious, childlike, everything's fucking hilarious. Then he says that he wants to drop two more hits of acid. No, don't do that. Which if you've done acid, that's the thing. The first hour is very dangerous because you're you you feel like before you're really picking on it, you feel just like this euphoria of laughter and you're like, I got to have more of this.


Oh, boy, I wanted this to feel more. But if you wait, you will feel more. The problem is you just feel this is so good. I want more than you take more. And it's like, oh, no, if you ever done that a few hours later, when you're like, this is never going to end, then it's a fucking story. Because I've been in that I. More ahead here, this is I'm having a great time.


I'm just making this worse. So he's doing that. Roxann saw him take a small bottle out of his pocket and put something in his mouth. Another friend who is in the car said that she saw him put acid in his mouth at this time. Now he's got a liquid. He's got I don't know if he's got liquid or if he dropped a hit and then, like, washed it down to wash the taste because it does have a weird taste that have been a sugar cube.


Yeah. So it's. Yeah, either. Yeah. Back then they used sugar cubes too. I don't know, I've only had it on paper but they are the three of them went to a party at seven thirty pm and they hung out for about three hours and Roy drank mixed drinks the whole time so he is just getting it on. Boy that's crazy. That's just why I guess when you're trying to you can just drink mix drinks and it's not doesn't affect you the same way.


So he's just drinking them. I guess. The acid annoyed his girlfriend. His girlfriend was annoyed with him, because if you want to hang out with someone on a human level, you can't. They would if they're tripping, they're just they're not there. It's a new world.


It's a they're both in different world. Yeah. You have a five year old. That's the same thing as if you have a four year old who's got like a, you know, a Nintendo switch in their hand, got to play in D.C. or some shit like they're not in your world that you can't have a conversation with a four year old is playing a video game. Two different things are, you know, the fact that they're four and the fact they're playing a video game is they're not good communication, certainly preoccupied.


They're a little bit preoccupied. So, yeah, she said that night it left him the LSD, left him hard to get along with and hard to communicate with.


Yeah. Which Yeah. And she was talking about the relationship. Yeah. I, well she just wants to hang out and like have her boyfriend with her at a party and he's just like giggling and tripping and acting weird and shit. Well at least he's not firing guns into the ceiling. Excellent point. You know, so I mean, good thing he's not on not on Coke or anything. His drug use would lead to some shit sometimes. Apparently he has smashed multiple windshields, not on acid, on other things, including his own.


He smashed other people's. That's like his trick that he does as he likes to smash windshields. Yeah, I just. That's his go.


Oh, fuck. Royce on the goddamn hood again. Get right off the shit. I just put the goddamn windshield on. What an asshole.


Vladimir from the program every goddamned Yeah. Person heads through windows through windows left and right. Man So he did that.


He would occasionally freak out and trash an apartment, go crazy like a rock band in a hotel room and start trashing shit. Yeah, but I'm not renting the shit for tonight. This is my shit.


This is your shit. That's what I mean. Including his own girlfriend's apartment. Oh God. He trashed his own girlfriend's apartment, which will not endear you to your girlfriend. If you have some drug fueled freak out and rip up her apartment, usually that's going to get you. She's going to be pissed at you for that. Roy and and Roxann this particular night argued at the party and all this type of shit. They were arguing. He kept drinking.


He's acting goofy on the acid. She's tired of him. And eventually she takes off, OK? She doesn't want to deal with him anymore. And so he is left with Brenda, the younger sister. Yeah, Roxanna's younger sister, the one that's going to age into this. So that's a no no. That's a different oh, that's a difference. Carol Michaels, this is Roxanne's girlfriend, Brenda. Carmichaels will come up later on, by the way, from being twelve.


Back then, she'll come up as an adult again. But for now, she's out of the story. So Roy and Roxanne argue at the party after several mixed drinks. Like we said, he he he leaves with Brenda. So, Fites, they get in fights all the time. Part of it is because he's on drugs. He trashes her apartment, probably smashed your windshield. Right. Do another thing is because he's always fooling around on the side.


Oh, by the way, most of the time with underage girls, really underage girls, it's this thing that's his thing. And not exactly. She's not even as mad at him for cheating. It's the fact that he's always cheating with, like a tenth grader that makes her a little wary of him. One time he was caught naked in the backseat of a car with an underage girl and got thrown in jail for statutory rape. Somehow the charges got dropped, but he was naked, just like Charles Manson got caught.


And it's the same exact thing. Unbelievable hair like never mind, back then it was so much. Nowadays, if you're caught naked with a minor in the back of your car, that's a very serious God. Back then it was like, what do you do in goofball? Get out of there. I was not the same. Don't you know? You can't do that. You can't look at this. He's got that girl all naked. Now lie.


What a jerk. I'll tell you what, I bet you'll be lucky if her dad doesn't punch you in the mouth like that's no jail. Yeah, buckin 20 something years old. Twenty three years old. And so Brenda, the younger sister, she says that she and Roy left the party together at about eleven forty five. Brenda sent him into the Legion Bar. A look for her boyfriend, so she stopped by a bar and she said, go in there and look for my boy.


This is a very this whole thing is we're going to look for my boyfriend in the bar and girlfriend left. And, boy, he was in the Legion for about 10 or 15 minutes. And when he returned, he's in there for ten minutes. He comes back and he goes, I couldn't find your boyfriend, but I got in a fight. Very helpful. Thanks, Rosie. Hey, thanks. Right here.


I did not find your boyfriend, but I did beat up a man named Richard, who I you know, I mean, a man named Richard will not wonder why I was looking for your boyfriend. I don't know. As I see your boyfriend, I think I might have beat up your boyfriend. Oh, shit, my bad. So she said she didn't observe any cuts on him, but it was dark in the car. So who knows? During the six hours she was with him, Brenda said that he never became loud or boisterous, never lost his temper, never stumbled, never slurred his speech.


He was just kind of giggly and silly. So the owner of the Legion Bar said that he came in to the bar around twelve forty, but he didn't see any fight. No fight ensued. OK, so who knows? He said that's what I mean. I don't know if he got like he had a weird fantasy. He took these other four hits acid. I mean he could do anything. You could fight, you could fight Jesus on faucet's acid literally.


You could be like man I threw down on his ass. I'm lucky he's skinny. He's muscular, though. He's sinewy, you know what I mean? You got to look out for him. He's tough, but, you know, he's got a disadvantage being twenty years old.


So I had a slight speed advantage on him and I think I took it over. So he said no fight happened. He's the bartender says that he did he didn't even appear noticeably intoxicated when he was there. So now, Roy, to Tomala, who's Roy's third cousin, OK, Roy's third cousin, Roy. Yeah, this is a good white trash episode. My brother Darryl. My other brother Darryl. Yeah, my my third cousin Darrel, as a matter of fact, as well.


Roy was sleeping.


Roy was sleeping in the apartment of Cynthia Teller on the evening of March 8th at 5:00 a.m. on March 9th, which is just a continuation of this evening.


He or Roy Toomelah and Cynthia Teller heard people running up the stairs and pounding on their apartment door. So this Roy Tamela answers the door and he sees Red Nelson who's there? Richard Murdo, another guy. It's Daniel Red Nelson, Richard Murder, Murdo Roy Wahlberg here.


And Jeff Getas.


Oh, that's who's there by 5:00 a.m.. This is the foursome at I may. Yeah. So midnight twelve forty. It's just him and Brenda by five a.m. he's with three other guys, including our deceased young man pounding on somebody's apartment door. He's had a crazy night, is definitely an ass at night. He's running around. Yeah.


He told them that there's no they thought there was a party at the apartment. It's just them sleeping. It's two people sleeping.


Yeah. They're like the sleeping in the door in his boxers, the eyes half closed. It's dark in there. He's like, hey, what's up? He's like, where's party? And they're like, huh, fucking party. We'll fucking party.


Get out of here, you assholes. So he tells them no party at the apartment and sends them away. He goes back to bed. He heard the group, I guess they were in the house. They came in the house because he went back to the bed, but he left them out there. He said he heard the group opened the refrigerator looking for beer and then leave in five, ten minutes. They're like, there's no party, but we're going to make one.


Like we heard there's a party, which means we're partying, motherfucker. There's two beers. We can split them and Democrats do it.


So, yeah, everybody in. So there's another guy coming in here, Terry Ghafour fella. He says that he was living at the Wolf Lake Resort ten miles west of Ely on March 9th. And then he went out of town or he went out to warm up his truck between six fifteen and six thirty and mile, warming it up. That's a cold weather thing.


He saw a gold duster drive very slowly down the loop road.


And stop is what he says.


He saw the driver, who he later will identify as Red Nelson, OK, he could not see if others were in the car. He said he drove up behind the duster and followed it for a while as both vehicles headed toward IEL. He wasn't following it on purpose. He was just going that direction.


Yeah, go Feller drove into the holiday station, which is a gas station about seven 10 a.m. in Ely and bought a pie, bought a pie like a hostess bar.


And what time? 7:00, 10:00 am. Like a hostess out better than I hope.


So I've been buying a whole pie and cherry pie, but be a pumpkin pie over at the gas station seven o'clock in the morning that made peach cobbler and a cup of coffee. That's a peach. Oh, no, a whole cobbler. Not a not a slice of covid. All ten of cobblers just. A big ol round cobbler of a table is a big square covid, so he did that. He said he went out to his truck at that point and saw the same gold duster in the gas pump area of the station.


He saw the driver standing by the car, but was unable to see if anyone else was inside. Just as he left, he saw the duster head east outside of the city limits at about 7:00 a.m. That's his story. Robert Owens, the manager of the gas station, who knew Roy because he delivered dairy products there regularly because the dairy guy, he says that shortly after seven, Roy arrived at the holiday station in the gold duster. Roy was in the duster.


The manager thought that two others got out of the car, but he remembered that that Roy got out from the passenger side and came in and talked for the manager for a while. Manager, manager didn't notice any cuts or bruises on him. The car which he arrived in was filled with one dollars worth of gas at the holiday station, enough to get to the next gas station.


One dollar. I need one dollar. Take a dollar on new. I'll take one on two.


That's great for people.


One dollar. Yeah, but in 73 that was like 17 gallons.


Seventy five is up right before the gas crisis. Yeah, that would have been because like a year later that would have been like a teaspoon. Yeah. So now Roxann, she testifies later on that Roy came to her apartment about nine, 20 a.m. so that's 720. And now we got a two hour window there between them at the gas station, talking to the manager, getting a dollar's worth of gas. And he shows up to the apartment at nine two a.m. She said he appeared tired, shaky, nervous and hungover.


He's had a long night. He has. That's I mean, Jesus Christ, I'm exhausted. This guy's night, she noticed a tiny bruise on the bridge of his nose and it and a tiny cut or crack on his lip. There were two small cuts or scratches on his left hand. She noticed his appearance had changed from the night before. When she last she saw him. She said he now had on dress jeans instead of his work jeans, got work jeans and dress jeans.


These are going out jeans. Now, come on. These are my wedding jeans I wear at weddings. Funerals, yeah, my going out dress jeans. And then I got to work. Jeans is every day. Just every day, you know.


I mean I can really. No I got it. Yeah. Yeah I but the blue one of your jeans you are at work. Yeah. Yeah. I got blue ones that I just do whatever and you know what I mean. The black ones that are nice. Jean. Yeah. This is my funeral. Black.


Yeah. I have my round the house jeans and you got your like you're going to dinner. Yeah. Jeans. Looking for those jeans.


That's right. It's funny. It does. It's just does at his work is dress James dress jeans is the thing that sounds that's what ruins the dress jeans really.


Your dress jeans.


They're just like the guy with the Jordans who told me these are dress Jordans and I would pardon but the shoes. The dress Jordans. Yeah. Yeah. So do you wear jeans and what the fuck out of here with that.


So anyway she, she said her, his appearance was different. Now he's got on his work jeans, he's no longer wearing the flowered shirt he wore the night before.


That must have been some outfit shirt and just your shirt. That's his outfit. Boy, I got my flowered shirt on my best dress jeans. I'm ready to party. So he came in and he laid his head on Roxanne's lap for a while. He then went into the bedroom, took his clothes off and went to bed. She noticed his long underwear was damp. They all wear the long underwear, layers and layers was damp from the knees down and there was a hole in the knee.


He told her that that he got wet wading through the snow and he told her that he thought he might have been in a fight at the Legion. I'm not sure I read Nelson was with me eventually ask him, but I'm not positive right now.


So, yeah, she didn't hear anything about Jeff Getas being with him or anything like that. So Roy's story is he took a couple hits of LSD, went to a party because that's her view. Yeah.


Now, Roy's point of view here is he took a couple hits to do, like some real Karasawa shit here. He he he at the party drank strong, mixed drinks.


He said one after another, he was pounding them, pounded him after he took a bunch of acid. He said that he was really loaded when he when he had left the party and he had trouble maneuvering the steps. That's what he says. Now they said he seemed fine, but whatever.


He spent several hours with Brenda and then he and read Nelson and Rich. Murdo drove around together drinking beer, of course, while they were driving a car.


Why wouldn't you just stop somewhere and drink? Why you got a drink in the car? Because it's warm something. I've done it. It's it's so fun. I swear to you, it's so fun to drink and drive. I don't say that.


Please, we're going to get sober as a kid. And when.


When it was completely. Innocuous desert. Don't do that, please don't listen to anything I get what you're saying. No danger of anybody getting out in the desert. Me again saying, yeah, on the road. Fuck that. That's crazy.


Yeah, they're driving around the moon and they're just driving around the middle of the night. That's absurd, man. Getting hammered after they've been drinking all night. That's what I mean. Yeah. Yeah. You were in the desert by yourself all along. Crashed some horler so I hit a tree. Or you can bleed to death out there on your own, but all on me. No, you're not taking anyone down. No, that's true. So he drove around now while they're drinking and drinking and driving a car, flashed its lights at them while they're drinking.


Yeah. Flash the lights.


So he broyd pulled over and got out and talk to the driver of the car. The driver smiled at him, showing him a bottle of banana liquor.


OK, that's what he said you to you to look at that. He's like, I got this. Like he was like, you want to drink this with me? Yeah. So and he asked Roy if he wanted to get into his car and help him drink this banana liquor. Let's get into my car so we can drive around and drink banana liquor. What a weird how does this even have that right? So Roy later found out that that he didn't even know him.


He didn't even know that was Jeff Getas till later. He never met him. You drank it, flashed lights and a car gone. He's like, what's up, buddy? Want to drink banana in the car with me? That's his story. That's crazy. I don't know about that. So, Richard, Murdo read Nelson and Roy Roy. Yeah. Join Getas in his car and they drove around in the gold duster. Getas was driving as they drove.


They all drank the banana liquor and Getas told them about a girl named Liz who he had met that night. They drove by the girls home and then to read Nelson's house where he had some vodka they were going to go pick up.


And, you know, because you're driving, you got to run out of booze. How he wants to drive once you're out of booze. So they decided they wanted to get some beer at at Synthia Teller's apartment. That's why they all went up to that. That's so that lines up with them showing up at the apartment. They open the door. They took all the all the beer that was in the refrigerator and left and drank all the beer. They then went to the Wolf Lake Resort area looking for more beer.


Red Nelson drove Geter sat in the front seat.


That's where that other guy saw that loop and come back. Red Nelson drove Getas in the front seat. Roy and Rich Murdo were sleeping in the back. When they got to Ely, Roy and Murdo woke up. They dropped Murdo off at his home. Geter said he wanted to check on his girlfriend once more and get some gas. He just driving by this. He just met her that night. Your girlfriend. You're a stalker? Yeah. You met her that night.


You're going back and forth. This is weird. You're ruining it. So they need a gas. So they pulled into the gas station. He remembered he might. That's when Roy said he remembered he might have to deliver milk that morning. So he went into the store and talked to the manager when he got out of the car, like, you're not you're not expecting milk, are you? Should see if the guy was surprised he wasn't carrying like a case of dairy.


If the guy looks surprised, I'm fucked. Right. Do I owe you milk? Yeah. If he just goes, hey, what are you doing here this morning?


Then I'm good. But I could be fucked for a couple of days early, aren't you? Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't. I'm just here for gas, so that's amazing. So he said he got back when he got back he noticed Jeff Getas was in the driver's seat. He said that he wanted to go home.


At that point Roy did. So I getas dropped him and Nelson off at Roy's truck at the zoo parking lot. I don't know what that is. Getas drove away in the duster. Roy says he didn't see him again. He said he dropped him off about seven thirty. That's a story later on to say eight fifteen. Seven thirty is a you know, time goes back and forth. But that's fine. Ass it. Yeah.


Roy said that he took Nelson home and then drove home or he took out his contact lenses and snorted some speed to wake up because, you know, he was getting tired. Obviously, he then drove to Roxanne's apartment where she said he was acting funny because he was on speed. Yeah. He did not remember what he said. He could only remember going to bed. He says he doesn't know how we got cuts on his hands and face. He said that his relationship with Getas was good and that he never he didn't do anything to him.


He doesn't know how he ended up there. He left him, drove away that somebody must have got him. Said he has no idea. He doesn't know. He said he took drugs and alcohol. And how could he possibly have any fucking idea what happened? Sorry. Now, that's the two points of view. Now, here's what must have actually happened. OK, this is a great article. It's in, oddly enough, and it'll make sense in


You're going to go, why would this this is the least technologically anything we're talking about gold dusters and banana or very little technology. In the 70s, drinking and driving is wired, getting into carbureted vehicle.


Now they love dustups. No, but dusters. Yes, that's the weird part. No, that's the odd part. And the article is written by a guy named Ted Conover, who I'm like. I know. That name and I looked him up, he wrote that amazing book on being a guard in Sing Sing, oh, he's the guy that went undercover as a guard in Sing Sing. It's called New Jack, not the wrestler, New Jack guarding Sing, Sing or a year in Sing, Sing or Whatever It Is by Ted Conover.


Really good writer and a good investigative journalist type of guy. So an excellent article here. A lot of good information only came from this article. So at one point in this evening here, Roy went to a local bar at the same time as Jeff Gaiters. That's where they ran into each other. Godet not flashing lights. It was Getas 19th birthday. He'd been drinking and everything like that. Now, Getas had a date that night with an eyerly woman, OK, but he forgot about it.


Oh, so he had made a date, but he forgot about the date, spaced it out because he was drinking and went to the bar instead. So he went to this bar and was hanging out. This is the lead and I believe the same place the guy when Roy ran into looking for the other ones, Brenda's boyfriend.


So he went in there and pretty soon he was hanging out with a college student who was home for the weekend from Duluth. That's how he met that night.


That was the little girl that he was talking about that they and another couple went down, went for pizza down the street at 1:00 a.m..


Yep. So that's what you do. So they left they went at 1:00 a.m. That's after Roy would have stopped at the bar. They leave them.


Getas offered her his class ring. He just met this girl at the bar catus.


He's already giving her jewelry. Boy, you have had five drinks and a slice of pizza with this one. You do not give away jewelry of any guy, especially sentimental things. This is why you don't drink banana liquor. Exactly. Get real real.


This is why the drinking age was raised to twenty one, because it really went and started giving away all your belongings. Nineteen year old gives you anyway. You want a car. You like dusters.


Do you say you like this watch. You listen.


It tells you what you wear. You just take it. My granddad gave me this class ring.


Now no one remembers whether Jeff and Roy spoke at the bar. It's uncertain whether they even knew each other then. But sometime after 2:00 three a.m., they met on the streets of Ely somewhere not in the bar, because everybody was gone somehow. So the lights flashing thing may have happened. Maybe they thought they confused him for somebody else. Or maybe it was just a group of guys were all partying. But would you flashing lights at a car full of strange guys in the middle of the night?


That's a way to get beat up, right?


That's a shot or shot or robbed or fucking woods of Minnesota.


Yeah. Administrative thing. That's they're going to get out and beat the shit out of you probably and like, leave you there. Think we're cute.


That's what it is. I was look at him. He wants to shake his ass at me. That's all mixed up in it is he wants your phone number. That's what it is that he's drinking banana liquor and who drinks banana liquor. What I'm saying is your boyfriend buy that for you. It goes right back to that again. He likes you, Roy. Right back to Roy.


So, yeah, they're, you know, probably just the last people around that night. You know, it's a quiet, small town. I assume you see a car like, who's that? And you probably recognize the car from the bar, maybe recognize that it was him. Hey, is that dude again? Yeah. Now Getas driving later on his blood alcohol level is measured at point one seven.


He's done it. So that's after the autopsy. Point one seven is Happy Birthday. And that's that's had to have come down a little since then. So he was drinking.


Everybody was really late as time went on tonight.


So he let Roy take the wheel of the duster and he climbed in the back seat to go to sleep. That's what we've put together from other people. He said, you drive my car, I'm passing out. So it's at this point that they were joined by Daniel Ratt Nelson, who is I love how Conover put it as, quote, Daniel Read Nelson, a shoplifter and vandal who sold drugs to kids. That's how he describes them. How would you like that to be your introduction into the national press?


Jimmy Westman, a shoplifter and vandal who sold drugs to kids just an all around great scum of the earth.


Great. Good. I feel wonderful. Yeah, piece of shit. Jimmy Wilson, Jimmy Wilson. My piece of shit sells drugs to kids, wrecks shit. You know him. He's an asshole.


So draws dicks on things. You know, he's a loser.


So it's at this point that they meet up with, with these three. So it's not those three met up with getters, it's getters and and Roy met up with the rest of his scumbag crew and Murdo. Yeah.


So the police theory was that Wahlberg was talking shit to read Nelson about his suspicion that Getas Getas didn't want to take any drugs. They were doing lines and shit. And he's like, nah, nah, I just wanted to drink booze because that's what he did and he's nineteen. They said, I bet he's a narc. They started saying he's a narc, you know, because they're doing spee. Right. When you do speed, you get paranoid, you think, shit, that's weird, you're weird.


Yeah, out of it, you're all out of it.


So I also read Nelson said that years earlier Wahlberg was jealous of Getas, who had just moved there, but local girls had started. He does well with the local girls because he's new. Yeah. So, you know, he's the new guy. And Roy doesn't like that, that the local girl starting to like him, especially the younger ones, because that's how he likes his game. So that's that was that's read Nelson's theory here. Now, as Geter slept, they picked up, they stopped at Roy's truck and they grabbed a hatchet and they also grabbed a stolen Bowie knife at Red Nelson's house.


OK, so now they have a nice a knife and a hatchet. This is while Jeff Gatsas is sleeping in the back seat.


They drove to a remote logging road eight miles north of town and they stop their getas, wakes up and he gets out to pee. Yeah, that's how it works. He gets out to take a leak. And his last words, according to Red Nelson, were, quote, Oh, no, don't do that.


Screaming like Nelson will end up he'll end up turning and giving evidence will be state's evidence here.


He says that Jesus Christ. Yeah. He says that that getas and the hatchet, they they attacked him with the hatchet, basically.


Jesus Christ, this is this is rough. They attack him with the hatchet and and they cuff they basically throw the hatchet into the trunk and covered the bloodstained ground with snow. There's all blood there and, you know, to cover that up.


And so they've never located the precise murder site here either.


They went back to Italy with getas body in the trunk, Nelson, stop at the car and read our Aroy, remove the hatchet from the trunk. And the hatchet was cleaned and returned to the inside of the car. Nelson and Roy returned to Italy and took Getas car to to the car wash and clean the blood stains from the car.


They took the car to the co-op parking lot, stole the tape player out of it, of course, raises the tapes and the speakers want to take the stereo, take the stereo out, and then they left it there.


This was after viciously attacking him while he was sleeping, which is fucking ridiculous here, by the way. Like we said, he will read will will plead to this and testify against Roy and his sentence can be anywhere from. Well, we'll get to that.


I'll give you that. We got Murdo took off Murdo. They dropped off before any of this happened.


The guy whose name is damn near murder, the murder, they got rid of him. He's the guy who doesn't kill anybody. So apparently this red Nelson says the dialogue was that Getas was a narcotics agent.


And basically they were talking about, you know, we got to kill this narc and all this type of shit. And yeah, so that's that's the thing. So they actually went to get weapons to do all this sort of shit, which is crazy. Now, the investigation there, the people last seen with Gater, with Geter. So Red Nelson and Wahlberg are prime suspects. They knocked on that guy's door who saw them all together at five a.m. So this all goes on.


You think it'd be pretty open and shut to 17 months before it's in a grand jury? Why this deal?


During those months, Roy freely talked with the lead investigator, talked with police, tried to I tried to like lead them in other directions and all that sort of shit. He thought he said he was playing mental chess with the police there. So Wahlberg ends up obviously getting arrested for this whole thing and he's arrested for first degree murder. And many years later, he would say, quote, My memory is very, very piecemeal. I have an overall impression of of killing myself, of killing myself for a long time.


I remember watching Red commit the Myrdal. I mean, the murder, looking through the back, looking through the back of a pickup truck. And about the last five years later, I remembered, wait a minute, we had a camper on the back of the pickup.


I couldn't have looked out the back of the pickup, who's like I'm realizing that, like, my memories aren't my memories, like I see them, but they're not. They couldn't have happened that way. Oh, that's not good. That's not good at all. And we don't know if he's full of shit.


That's an easier way to say I didn't even know I did it. Or if he's that could be too. I mean, memories are weird like that. And if you're on drugs, it fucking further alters your memories. And you could definitely say, I know this happened. And then you'd say, oh, that's impossible for that to have happened. So I've done that thought something definitely happened and it didn't. So, yeah, they they talk about the like they're talking about the evidence and talking about everything like that.


And it shows that Nelson. Could recall even the smallest details of wounds on Jeff Getas and gave vivid accounts of the contents of Getas car trunk when they threw it in there, like he knew everything that was in the car trunk, he knew everything, had attention to detail. They said they took careful evidence, careful jail time, destroying the evidence at the scene of the crime. They they cleaned the hatchet very well. Their clothes were cleaned and immediately followed the crime.


It's all this sort of shit. So this isn't if you're tripping, you don't do this sort of thing. So that's the thing, I think. Plus acid about eight hours and the last two, you're not even tripping really anymore. You're coming down south.


Feels like Roy is using the jazz, like as an excuse for not knowing. Yeah, that's right.


I don't know every yeah. He's like I know exactly what happened because Red's got a lot of motivation to know. He's got like a very much shrunken down prison sentence. They're now awaiting trial. Roy is in jail and he attempted to commit suicide while in jail and he was placed on the suicide list. His psychiatrist at the time said his ability to laugh was excessive under the circumstances. He said, I believe that the possibility of serving a life sentence is just now beginning to dawn upon him because of his fair complexion and youthful appearance.


He states that he's been getting a lot of pressure from the other inmates for sex, and I bet now it's a crime. This is great.


Now, Jeff's dad, Stan, is fucking pissed. He wants blood. Geoff stabbed Stan. He he said that he's really, really upset.


He says, quote, I had a long time before I could say the our father. I mean, forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sinned against us. I could never forgive him ever. And his idea of his fantasy justice, his father is, quote, give me my thirty six. I just want one shot. That's all I need.


Oh boy. Yeah. He's just wants to take him out to he said while he's running across a field he just wants to treat him like a deer. Let him run our son Greg give me one shot at him. That's what he's saying. I'll fix this. I got this and the rest of the getters kind of feel the same way. The children, they want the death penalty. They were skeptical of parole for him. They didn't want him getting out.


They said somebody that evil I personally don't believe can ever change their change their inside, no matter what. That's his brother, Jay. And they said the same type of thing. Now, the trial read Nelson here he is allowed to plead guilty to second degree murder the his sentence, but can run anywhere from zero to forty years depending on what they feel like having him and how good of a witness he has. Basically, we'll see. That's why he remembers the smallest fucking details of attack in this.


And they did they attack to get that sentence down to zero.


They attacked him and apparently the last thing that happened was red telling, red telling Roy to finish him, to finish him off. And that's what ended up happening. Roy was attacking him with a hatchet and that's how it went down apparently here. So, yeah.


So the judge judges, the judge has all the discretion here.


Jeffrey's little brother, Jay, who was a high school student at the time, he said that he we did everything we could to hold ourselves back, to try not to choke that bastard.


There was so much anger and trapped violence now the first year in jail, in prison, because he is going to be sentenced guilty as fuck, obviously, and he is going to get a life sentence, which does not translate to what you think it would here.


So we'll talk about that. You, sir, may fuck off, but it's more than that in prison.


The first year, Roy's dad died of a heart attack while shoveling snow off the roof of the house. Roxann, stop visiting him because he's in jail. She said she had migraine headaches whenever she went there. It's stressful jail. His psychiatrist prescribed him anti-depressants and sedatives, but he ended up in the infirmary close to death from injecting himself with Dilaudid, which he somehow got in Gen Y and is injecting himself with that shit in prison.


He got in prison. Yeah, except fucking guns, pretty much.


He doesn't have anything, though, in terms of value to get that though. Right. And I mean, his parents might be put money on his books house, I would assume so he can survive. Is that ever golden bottle if that's what I mean. He is he is like he said, he said to make himself less physically vulnerable, he began lifting weights. He tried to stay in his cell and do a lot of reading, and he slowly got better and better.


And he starts doing a prison run program called Insight as he joins. OK, we'll talk about that in a second. Now, Carol, Michael's.


Remember her? Yeah, the little sister, she she comes back and she said she didn't care about the murder conviction. What she said my whole reaction. Was that I didn't care, her parents did and her her parents forbade him to visit him, forbade her to visit him in jail, but when she turned 18, she went anyway. Oh, Mike and Roy had been in for a few years at that point, and Carol Michaels was visiting him all the time.


She said once or twice a week. For years, huh? My turn will come. Oh, wow. I asked him to marry me a couple of times and he said no from prison.


Yeah. He said it was pointless for me to wait around because he was going to be in prison for the rest of his life. Now, Incyte, very quickly, is a program started by two prisoners who were smart people. They were both murderers. They started this program where they lobbied the state legislature to basically allow them to apply for grants to get college education in jail, basically.


So then they got it. So they do that there did that there. They took standardized tests and the whoever was accepted lived in a special cell block and they did their full time prison work and full academic schedule schedule and the whole deal. So they had computer work and everything. So Roy scored very high and was accepted. This is in the 80s. Insight's cell block was a they said it's a safe place. Basically, it's all the people there going to school and they're not trying to game the system or anything.


Exactly. They're not trying to no one's in there to try to, you know, rape each other or anything here. So he starts doing his bachelor's degree and he says that it was a slow start because his brain was a little addled. He said, My own theory was I was carrying so many chemicals in my body, like PCP. It just took time for that to dissipate and for my mind to start working again. And which is true that if you're do drugs for a long time, you've got like a brain cloud that takes a while to to go.


He said that, you know, he was just doing tons of drugs before that. So anyway, what he does is he starts he starts doing this. And he said that he was really good at it. He got his bachelor's in computer programming and started to work on his MBA. He said I had to learn like five or six additional computer languages and basically just stay barely ahead of the other students. So he thought that it was it was fun.


He said he stopped doing drugs and he was the first time he was into something that wasn't terrible for him, basically. And in the meantime, Incyte had gone online and received a big grant from Control Data Corporation, which was a computer manufacturer. And Roy became lead instructor of Control Data's Homework Project, a national training program for homebound and disabled people conducted over the network.


OK, this is the main guy. This is the guy. In many cases, the students were quadraplegic and programming with a mouth stick and shit like that. So, yeah, he said I just identified with them so much they were isolated from the mainstream workplace, just like me. A little different reason. Yeah.


In nineteen eighty two, he secretly teamed up with control data analyst Barbara Hanson.


When she ends up hooking up with as well to form a corporation, he's got this Digital Dispatch Inc DDE SOC contracts for computer based education programming from outside companies like Merrill Lynch and shit like that, the Florida State Lottery and then subtract contracted with insight for programmers to do their work. Wow. So he's got a whole little scam going on here. Yeah, he this is a little white collar scam he's got going on in prison. An article he read in eighty five said that he anticipated they anticipated the arrival of computer viruses coming.


So the piece is theoretical, he said. But given what I knew about the people around me, he said it's definitely going to happen, no doubt. So he began initial work on an antivirus program which ended up working out and all this sort of shit. So he ends up he talks to a murderer who's in there, who's a computer genius, who just killed a guy in a love squabble.


And he said that inmates were basically weren't supposed to hang out with new people, but he got a hold of him anyway and got his pick his brain a little bit here. Anyway, they start doing this. He'd eventually they said, quote, So he's essentially in his cell on paper, write everything. And I go back and put it in the computer and come back to him with error messages and he would tell you how to fix them.


That's how he did it with this guy.


Wahlberg gets transferred to Insight's headquarters in the medium security prison in Lionel Lino Lakes and was almost he immediately got a small office with a terminal on the Internet. He said that's where he lived. When I got in front of that computer, I could be communicating with all of academia, people with larger ideas, blah, blah, blah. So he likes the Internet and he thought it was a good marketing tool. He made his first antivirus product data physician and he spread the word online.


Barbara, Hanssens in this sort of thing dies tax free. Turns from 91, ninety two now and ninety three show gross receipts of eight hundred thirteen thousand nine hundred forty nine hundred forty two thousand eight hundred thirty nine dollars and eight hundred thirty three thousand five hundred twenty five dollars respectively. Where does that go? And in nineteen ninety one, Barbara Hanson took home a salary of one hundred and forty seven thousand dollars. OK, now media interest was big too.


The first the computer magazines started calling and the national media and Barbara Hanson routing the calls from her house there that she bought, she would send them to the Insight cell block and they had no idea they were talking to him in prison.


They know they were talking to a prisoner that had a regular phone line. He didn't have to go through the prison system. So he was quoted about sales of antivirus products in nineteen eighty eight in The Washington Post from prison. National Public Radio's All Things Considered stays on their NPR NPR. He's using Erik Hansen as an alibi, which is his middle name and Barbara's last name. He told the people that alias. Alias. Yeah, that's yeah. That's his alias here.


And meanwhile here, there's that other programmer who helped him do everything he's doing technically to the murder.


He's doing technical support, Gall's. And he said that he handled all the data physician physician tech calls from people at the U.S. Department of Transportation, Department of Energy, the Postal Service, the IRS. None of them knew they were talking to inmates, idiots.


None of them. None of them.


But in their defense, there's no way to know for them to know. That's right. They got duped. So he says they said, you know, this must have been scary to run from in prison. He said, quote, Oh, it was it was a terrifying time for me. He said that, you know, any time this could happen, he goes, I knew if I got caught, I would fuck my parole up. He said I never knew when my calls were monitored, but I spent days talking to these media people.


I was getting so stressed out. Finally, Bill, that's the guy who helped him, said, look, if you're going to crash, you might as well grab a hold of the controls and have some fun on the way down. I took that in perspective and said, all right, let's go with it, let's have some fun. But I always just assumed it was going to blow up in our faces and our faces.


Now he's doing all this. Nobody knows about it. But Jay Getas, the little brother who's now an adult, who's now an attorney, mind you, by the way. Yeah. By now, he had gone to law school and become a tax attorney. Awesome. He wanted to be a prosecutor, but they told him in law school, you got too much. There's too much around. There's too much for you to do that that's too personal for it can't be personal.


Be a tax attorney. You'll make money and you won't want to kill anybody.


So that's what he said. He says that he knew about what was going on. He said that Roy had become a millionaire in prison by doing some computer shit. He said his mother was mouthing off up north.


He said, you know, telling everybody that her son so rich now, God damn whitey. Yeah, he so they said it was they started an investigation and they do all this type of shit. They look into everything and they they have this investigator look into shit. And it's fucking interesting. Now, the family is adamantly against him ever getting out of jail and everything like that. But they they look into it and he says basically they sit down with a prisoner and tell him, you jump through these hoops like a dog and he'll get out.


It started becoming quite evident that they were dead on course to release him at some point. So he starts to get worried. And Getas says that he'll tell the Department of Corrections about the secret business. So the Department of Corrections replied that a business, that business does not exist and he's like it fucking does like, nope, we checked. It's nothing in there. So Getas tried to tell on him for the business and the person said, nope, you're wrong.


Oh, boy, that's that. So Jesus Christ. So Getas organized a campaign to stop him from getting parole. Obviously through public opinion. He wrote to the governor who didn't respond. He mounted a petition drive sending family members into the stores and bars of Krosby and Iron Range and canvassing everybody talking to people. Don't let him out. He appeared on local radio and television shows, spoke to political groups, told everybody to write. The governor allied himself with the National of Victims Rights Group for murdered children.


I mean, you name it, it's wow.


He does all this type of shit. I'm Mertle screaming about our son's rich. Exactly.


So in Minnesota, the power to parole, though none of that other shit matters. Power to parole rests solely with the commissioner of corrections. So you only have to convince that guy eventually. Eventually they would succeed in passing Getas law, which transferred power of parole in first degree murder cases to a panel consisting of the governor, attorney general and chief justice of the Supreme Court goes to a lot of different people. In January 1993, he's up for parole and they announce they will.


Are all rEU, I have no idea about the commissioner here, Orvil Pung, he said this is a guy who represents no risk to the public. He is probably an example, the best example of a person who has changed. I don't know of anybody who's been who has been so ready to get out. It's just a person who have done some remarkable things. And so, you know, the brothers passed the family's past to Dorval get a donation to his re-election committee.


What the fuck? I don't know. They're impressed that he is teaching people and doing and learning. Got a bachelor's degree. They they release him from prison July 23, 1993. After 17 years in jail. He's getting he gets like anonymous crank phone calls all the time right away, saying, how's it feel to be free?


Too bad Jeff can't be free and shit like that.


It's the family that's probably doing that now. Carol Mychal's backs away. She's been with him the whole time, but she backs away when she realizes that he's in a relationship with his Barbara Hanson.


She's doing him. He's in a business with.


Yeah, yeah. Her relationship. It's fucking crazy. So the Getas family hates him. They're still, like, trying to, you know, they still want him. Basically, they sue him. They said we can file a civil complaint. Yeah. So they they do. And they said they file a civil complaint saying that Wolberg offered an annual payment to the family of five percent of his net after income tax after tax income. Eighty percent of any inheritance or windfall earnings, and fifty percent of the proceeds from the sale of any business interest, evidently for the rest of his life.


That's what he said.


So the was, as Jay said, my original intent and turn now.


This is my original intent in turning my life around in prison, was to try and succeed economically in order to create an educational or business investment trust for your family. There was nothing I could do to bring back the life that was lost, but I had to at least try to do something positive. I'd like to try to do that again. You mean ever for the first time? Yeah. So the offer was rejected though, and they they go into it further because they're talking about it and he's like the brothers like I have.


If I do that then I have to root for you to succeed. I don't want to root for this guy to succeed. That's a great point for me to for our family to make money. This guy's got to make millions of dollars. I don't want him to make millions of dollars. Fuck this guy. So he's like, I don't really not really into that. So they pursued the question of what became of the money they couldn't find his money to for a while.


It's it's bad Wolberg while they're coming after him, he says, oh God, this is going to fuck everything up because he's going to come after me. This is going to go on and on and on and on. So now he starts claiming he's broke. He has no money, none, even though he definitely does. And lawyers are unsuccessful proving otherwise because he knows how to hide it. Right.


So he said that he that he'd given away, loaned out or lost everything. That's what he said. He has over ten thousand dollars in credit card debt and his bank accounts empty. And according to the books of DTI, he's not even making any business any money. So they end up with this big deal with a lifetime cap of of three hundred seventy five thousand dollars as the most money they can get. So that's how that works. And Jay Gater said, yeah, it's ironic and eerie thing to know that financially I'm interested in his success.


I don't like that which. Yeah, he said, what if the what the what the family would really like would be if he just killed himself.


Jesus Christ. Wow. OK, Jay, I mean, what do you do then.


So the station W Minneapolis w Scott spent a year developing a sixty minutes style exposé on INSIGHT, the PRISM program, and it's called When Prison Pays Off and it basically makes everybody pissed off. The people are going to jail and learning how to make money to do things is how that works well. So he's trying to piss everybody off.


But I mean, you know, you got to got to do something. What do you want him to do?


I mean, would you rather they just sit in there and rot and then come out and be a fucking drain on all of us? Or would you like them to go in there, get corrected and be a functioning member of society? Exactly. With some supervision and lack of trust. But maybe paycheck and taxes would be nice. Yes, that's it. Help out. But instead, before the show aired, the state had the had shut everything down.


Computers and financial records were seized and the former inmates on contract to die were locked out of their offices. Roy Wahlberg basically was able to bullshit people that they had technical problems for a while, but after about thirty days, they had to close everything down, he said. The Department of Corrections basically would clear it all up, but then he thought he was fucked. He's like, I'm so fucked, he said. The Department of Corrections. He said, they took all my shit.


I'm totally screwed. I can't do the business. Oh, by the way, on some of their computers, they found child pornography. Oh, on there on a hard drive and announced it to the press that they had sent computers to the FBI. So now he goes, oh, I'm fucked now. Now, that's connected to my business. That's his favorite. He's totally fucking said. But after the wrongful death suit, I don't have the money.


Besides, suing the agency in charge of your parole may not be the best idea because he's on fucking parole. So he says maybe I'll give up.


He says, quote, In times past, people went down with their ship. That's exactly what I'm inclined to do. It's the honorable thing. Well, I called my parole officer and asked if it was possible to have my parole revoked, and they said, no, stupid.


That means we have to pay for you. That's not how this works. It's not a fucking motel.


The check in out now at the hotel.


Yes. So he says that there's an old Native American principle that if your enemy has a knife to your throat, you lean into it to rob him of the pleasure of your fear. I want to lean into the knife. It's like it's like the ultimate fuck you. I'm leaning into their knife and they don't fucking expect it or like it. He says they want to control. But the only way the state or the family had power is if he started caring about being free.


That's what he said. So he expected to be arrested. And he said he even tried to kill himself. He said he ran his car in his closed garage. He said, but that damn Mitsubishi was too efficient.


I was in there all day long and takes no gas, takes no gas, runs very lean.


So he said not long after, a friend of his told said that Roy loaned an old prison, acquaints his car and it had been used to commit a crime. And so that's he said he's being looked into and he expects to be arrested and he does. But not for that. No. February nineteen ninety five, Roy is arrested for possession of LSD.


I'll tell you, Boston, that's a five hundred thousand dollars bail. Twenty five years in prison and a revoked parole is what they're talking about with him. His parole is going to be revoked. All this shit, the story. This is wild.


There's a woman named Heather who he met at a pie shop. OK, Tony, a friend of Heather's, wanted to sell Roy some LSD. Jason, who was a young homeless man who'd been living with Roy and and Michelle, who was Wahlberg's latest girlfriend, and Cathy, who was fifteen, who was a runaway. We're all hanging out, Jason, the homeless guy, and Kathy, the runaway had gone in Roy's truck to a meeting with Tony, the drug dealer, in a parking lot of the Fanta Sweet Motel in suburban Burnsville on Minneapolis's Assadi to buy LSD.


Yeah, Jason, who was carrying one hundred and fifty dollars of what he said was Roy's money called Roy from the motel to say that the truck wouldn't start. Roy and Michelle drove down to help. Soon the truck started and it's cab. Jason handed the sheet of 100 hits of acid to Roy in an instant, a swarm of agents from the south. Not that task force arrested everybody, but not Jason. Not Michelle. Only Roy. Yeah, the meeting had been a setup.


Tony was a police informer. Jason had turned on Wahlberg and implicated him afterwards when they caught him. And that's how that ended up happening. Police claim they hadn't targeted Wahlberg and didn't know about his record until after the arrest.


It's just a lucky they don't know about him in Minneapolis. Got him so lucky snack. Yeah, Jay said that his Jay Getas, the family there, they said the family was elated about his arrest. They loved it. Yeah. They they get him possession of LSD as well as a TI handled knife. They revoke his parole, send him back to Stillwater for at least another three years. Wahlberg's mother close the office that he had sold or gave away his computers, put shit in storage, and everybody that worked there went went off to work.


He said, quote, I wasn't going to buy acid. I knew the cops were down there. I think he likes to sound smarter than he is. You can't know what it feels like to be the focal point of all that negative energy. You can read about it in the newspapers, but you're not sitting there as the focal point, having the pressure from reporters and listening to the direction they're going. You question everything after a while, especially yourself.


Yeah, you're a piece of shit, man. Yeah, he said there's this. He's a terrible human being. He is. He said this is a story about hatred gearing up after two fucking decades and ruining a beautiful person. Now, he called himself a beautiful person.


Is this guy does he sound like there's there's certain people he sounds like this is a story of you doing this to me, even though I've done all this horrible Germans off being and now it's come home to roost and it's your fault.


Listen to this. I looked in the mirror the other day and thought, OK, what do you think? I've ruined my life.


I've done this, lowered my teeth, you know, quote, I could have been a professional kind of. Fucking idiot. I got a Vince Lombardi 2004, he is up for parole. Yes, he is up for parole and he is denied parole and he will not be up again for six more years after that. They do transfer him, though, to transferred from Lino Lakes to Oak Park Heights because of medical reasons. I know he was Lino.


Yeah, I know.


I know. He says he was they denied him parole due to disciplinary problems. He is a dick. He's a dick. Basically, he won his early parole, obviously, but then he's right back in there and he's stuck. Now, Jeffrey's parents get his parents. They died. Katie died in 2007. Stan died in 2008. James still around, though. Roy seems to be, as we can see, still in prison.


Oh, there he is.


He never got out. He has the most rEU face. He looks like a scene right now.


That is a real ayari. He never got back out, dude. Wow. Got arrested, got ninety five. They've got him for twenty five. You know, they just yanked his parole. They've never given him parole again. He got denied his parole and denied again and denied. He just keeps getting denied now.


Now he's fucked around where he is. He's either, he's either in murkoff Stillwater. I have two different find a prisoner things either NCF Stillwater or in murkoff Oak Park Heights.


I cannot believe how Roy he is. He is so fucking Roy. There he is.


And Jeffrey is buried at the where is he? At the Lakewood Cemetery in Krosby, Minnesota. Is that is beautiful though. Isn't that nice. What a nice. That's a picture of his headstone. They have like really nice like a garden, like flower baskets on like black like planter things around it. So it's just these beautiful flowers coming down in front. They have flowers growing in front of it in front. It's fucking gorgeous, man. Like that's the grave you want, right?


Absolutely. That's all three of them to that's Jeffrey, mother and father. That's the three of them in one big plot there on the thing. So and that's nice. It sucks that their dad, Jeffrey's, you know, he should have been he should have been somebody. He should have been sixty five years old. Right now he's born the same here as my dad. Right. You know what I mean? He died at nineteen.


That sucks. And this asshole, though, still in prison. So fuck them. Hilarious. I don't feel bad for Roy Wahlberg. He can eat dicks. Yeah. So I hope you enjoyed that goddamn show. That's a crazy ass ride, right? I mean, that's a wild ride.


All right. We were drinking and driving drink and drive and swerving there, swerving everywhere, man. And all sorts of shit going on there. Now, if you like to tell us about it, tell the world about it. Get on Apple podcast, that purple icon. Tell everybody, give us five stars. It really, really does help drive you up the charts. We have no goddamn idea why. In addition to that, head over to shut up and give me murder.


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There are our episodes. Our Patrón episodes are amazing. Honestly, I'm going to I'm going to be arrogant about it. We put good ones out there pretty fucking good. I would. I would definitely. They're worth the five dollars a month and you get access to both shows stuff. So you're going to get access to all sorts of shit, the back catalogs of it. Lots of stuff to listen to. Patreon dotcom slash crime and sports and you'll get a shout out to little Jimmy is going to mispronounce your name at the end of the show because you're a producer and dammit, we respect you.


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That said, Jimmy, I think I need to know please no Roys.


I need the list of people who would never, ever, ever attack us with a hatchet after sharing a bottle of banana liquor with us.


Hit me with those names right now, please.


This week's executive producers are Liz Vasquez, Jordan Bennett, C.J. Buford, Trent Pearson, Filipinos sex thing.


God, it's helpful know you're doing something right at that point in.


Groom George Neimann, and it's Eric Cole, Kamps birthday. Happy birthday, Bud, and indeed other producers this week are Aaron Ozzy and his girlfriend, Edna Lopez. Yes, Charlie. Listen, Linda Patha, Aaron doesn't want you to be his girlfriend. Oh, no, no, that sounds bad. Yeah, it's not. But he would prefer it if he called you his fiancee for a short time and then hopefully call you his wife when you guys set on a date.


If you're OK with that, take the ring from him right this second. Yes. It's beautiful, right? That's nice. I'll start crying some of those happy tears.


Kids, call your sister, you know, face time with your cousin and show her the ring.


It's going to be, as you said, no. Then it's Aaron's tears. So I assume congratulations. And we're terribly sorry that we did this for you. We deal with it. So congrats.


The producers. Are Jenn, at your fandom or mine? Brian Spratt. Congrats on the weight loss, Bryan. Keep going. James Marter, Jennifer Stephens, Peyton Meadows. Carl Kirschner's wife, Christy had a birthday this week. Happy birthday, Amanda.


Tonight, somehow I somehow I put an argument over the you.


I don't know how I did that because you got so many types of stuff and now that's happening. So how did you find the watch? I mean, what's going on here?


I have no idea that I can barely scroll.


We're lucky I can scroll through these somehow. I put a fucking lot in there. Amanda Knight, Thomas DeMello, Shey Foden in Australia, Marko's Dinara Deianeira, Jesus fuck. Amanda Jacobs, Monroe Monroe Kasarda boyfriend. No, that's best friend of her name's Emily and she had a birthday. Happy birthday. That's terrific. Garyville heavily happy birthday, Grant Stansberry.


Joseph nope. That's Joshua friend. COHRE Shenise are not Iora Bonnar going Kendall and John.


First of all Zach Vinaya. Chris Mahi's giant cock. I can read thou Holon. So good for him. Savlon valet's Joanna. Joanna A'Hearn. She's fantastic. She's tearing it up. She's, she's a wonderful woman. Janice Hill. Alexander Capello's girlfriend. Kayla. Yes. I got to write that she had a birthday though. Happy birthday Kayla. Happy birthday, Margaret Drozd Zenovich.


Tanya Van Kampen, Mackenzie McLean, Thomas Smith, Trey Volcan, our Ashley VO, Steve Schnell. Chris Bartley. Corey Cyphers. Ashley Burleigh's, I think.


Baloji OK, listen here here kuraishi cash and Javadoc because you have a stroke in the middle of that.


No those were all letters. I swear you finally killed Jimmy.


Everybody who did it, that man broke them made to you de Mayama his tongue fell out. It's over Robin with no last name. Kari Krib Jason Lorna Long grow final sin. Sarah Savol Svoboda looks like Wayne Moyer kickstand with no last name. Laura Haddock. Christina with no last name. Georgia Beau Kyle. Seth Miller.


Steven Sparks. Aiden Hlophe lovely Kristen Kirstyn loathsome Charles Rivera Jr. You're doing great Jimmy. John McCarthy.


Somebody wrote that well say you needed the encouragement. They knew it was Eduardo Villanueva, William Klukowski, Michael Robert's own boy, Elan Engleberg Stator.


Wow. That's where I got to work harder at this Lexie being out. Allison Kabah, Crystal Wite, Taylor LeMaster, Steffanie Utter Monaca, Thornber Thornburgh, Tom Jones and Brawly and Brawly Drew Sherri Sandoval's, Laurie Dornoch Donnegan Marguerita Dixon, Vinnie Caputo Fon. Nate Caputo.


I did have an uncle named Vinny Caputo. It's pretty funny. I think it's him that I have an uncle.


They've been a couple that surprising everybody. Is that surprising that I have an uncle named Jimmy playing Vinny Cafero since the prize No.


One, Jacob Gibson, Raymond Ramone Pontes, Daniel Lawson, Marie Spalding, Volks Payne. Andrew Steffen's sunlit. Jimmy Feeney Nicollet. Kevin Kievan. Daisy Heart and I don't know what that is, Catherine. There's a guy that's lived at the end.


No, and not Mexico and like North Dakota, I said, and I was like, Dr. Van, that person's a medical professional, sir. I don't know what the fuck that is. Joe Jaggedly yellow. I tell Ray Schurman, Colby Roberts, just Paronto Ashley Thielemann, Nate Sumpter Jaman with no last name or Jamen Christina Philippe. Felipe Phillipi. Jonathan Goldsmith. Gordon Smith. Er Eric Kolar. Jennifer Quinton's. Yes, Mike's big banana. Tyler Lam Chloe would no last name.


Nick Howard Bridger fate.


I think I'm never going to know Kat if only I've evely name.


Karen O'Donnell rainless Melecio real fake person. Jeff Crowder. Monica Silva. Ren Jaga writer Beckert a what is this. Is that Amanda and I put a put a comma, a comma and cipollini so supposedly supposedly cipollini this is literally sounds like an Italian restaurant.


I'll have the chip Fellaini. That's typical of Leni. Excuse me, Sarkozy said because he said you are so embarrassing. Gustavo Panaro, Audrey Martin Newsie Brandon with no last name. Sandra Le Mansky. Ingeborg Splinting emigrates. Grace Aaron shouts. Tim Conklin. Stephanie Quinto. Yep. Frog Pond Farm. Vanessa Haigler. Mark Limpia. Zac Pennington. Steve Zack Aranda. Dawn Dickinson. Ricky, Ricky. Ricky, Ricky. Elaine. Is that Ricky. Also Jimmy Hall.


Madison would no last name Mike Brown. Francheska and or asshole but not a scumbag boyfriend. Sebastian celebrated their sixth Valentine's Day Jesus Christ Raul Perez, Ashley Vera, Carrie and Ray Blair. Turk Cameron Hankel. Melissa Schmidt. Jo Reynolds, Maverick Moralez. Ashley Lerer, Hubway. Rebecca Mikveh Travis Travis. Mass surveillance.


Is that real?


Travis Just Michael Veach, Amanda Mack, TSCA. Drew Bittner. Robin would no last name. Julia Borith. James Scott, Russell Jannsen, Chris Sloan. So Alexis Nielsen. Alyssa Bruce. Andrew Molen. Brandi Nope. That's Brittany Meggs Amant. Nope, that's Amber. Amber Hadley.


Jenn Case Kayla Classic Demi Lamarre.


Kaitlyn Berkely. Holly Seltmann. Nope. Krista May Carver and Chastity Orwick. Chris Brown hope stop beating women please. Cody Belle and Debbie Lewis. Razali Rosily. Oh Boy Lewis Rosily. Michael Simmons. Slater Von Essen. Laura Stephens. Zach Shiza Oh Boy. Jessica Fletcher. Chelsea Rush. Michael Gooden. John Knickerbocker. Brian Connolly. Jess Colter. Chris Karen. Kathy Riley. Christian Rogier. Kayla Conley. Joe KW. Candice McCord. Summer with no last name.


Maynard Linder. Yep. Tiffany Snuck. Paul Brassard, Bella O'Niel, Abby Artley, Samantha Harris, Kathryn Harrison, Sara Chapman, Keegan not NUPE. Michael Tripp's Trepp Sick tripped me up. Gavin Cookes. Robert Schwartz, Spencer Townsend, Richard Matthews, Chelsea Craig, Theo Anderson, Riley Shuk. Sasha Anderson, Dennis Mazia. Erica Copeland, Mitchell Alexian. Jamie Kwiatkowski. Wow. Oh boy. Good job. Michael Oliver. Amy Dalton. Stephanie with no last name.


Yori Johnson. Robert Hempel, HAMP HAMP Joe with no last name. Matthew Radtke. Caitlin Ferro. Amy Khandahar. Candy Sun Höss. Hey Casey Tackett Ryan and Grofe Connor Connor Heffernan. Dale Ashburn Mike Mark H. Monica Rowden. Kyle with no last name. AJ Jaquiss Dexter wore green. Tuqay Thorton. Josh Rhodes. Jennifer Schafer Aaron Steven Stephan's Aaron. Rob Rabe. Oh boy. Sebastian Carlson. Jake Nope. That's Jason Baker jenaveve Harris Jessica with no last name.


Dan Carnes. Tyler Roosevelt. Rizzle Rizzle Votto. Darren where. Ronnie Bailey. Meredith with no last name. Zach Clark. Love come. What got some Mwanga, whoa, Hayle, Selldorff, Thomas, Dering, Deklin, Deklin, Wollard, Twyla S. Toyi, Joe Conason. Oh boy. Jonathan and Michelle Cooper, Jay Dyce, 83, and Amanda Lupus and all of our patrons. You guys are fantastic. Thank you so much for everything you do for us.


We can't do without you.


Thank you everybody so much. Honestly, we cannot do any of this without you and we just appreciate the shit out of everything you do for us. So just thank you so much. What if they wanted to get a hold of you would. Thank you.


Know where we're at. There's enough you know, where Twitter handles and Instagram. There's plenty of people who know how to find you don't need to follow me. Well, but if you do, you know where I'm at, you'll find it. Yeah.


You Google search people and. Yeah, then I'll shows up. He's a Jimmy James small town murder.


They'll pop up every one of them all. It'll all pop up. And that's the same thing for me. You're going to find me on there too. So we just want to thank you for everything you do for us. And this one was crazy. Everything. Yeah. We had so much fun doing this. We well, if you out a lot of fun as well. And yeah. I hope hope everybody's not as mad as the Getas family is out.


I totally understand where they're coming from. Just pissed. It's a tough way to live like that.


I thought I let that. Are you sorry for hanging on to it and fighting to the end. That's got to do it. I love it.


That's what he wants to do. He can do it. So yeah, I think it's time to Yeah. That time again and decompress.


Thank you again everybody. And until next week it's been our pleasure. My.