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Hey, everybody, I don't know if you've heard, but we have a book coming out finally, finally after all these years. It's great. It's fun. You're going to love it. It's called stuff you should know. Colen an incomplete compendium of mostly interesting things. Yeah. And it's 26 jam packed chapters that we wrote with another guy named Nils Parker, who's amazing and has illustrated amazingly by our illustrator, Carly Manado. And it's just an all around joy to pick up and read, even though we haven't physically held her hands yet.

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Welcome to stuff you should know. A production of pirate radios HowStuffWorks. Hey, and welcome to the podcast, I'm Josh Clark, there's Charles W. Scoop Bryant, and this is stuff you should know, one of our infrequent true crime editions. So if you don't like true crime, I probably shouldn't listen to this one because it's about true crime and it's right. And that goes along with it.

And big time trigger warnings on this one. If you have family members who have been sexually assaulted or kidnapped or if you have children that you care about at all and they're even safe in your home, this might be pretty upsetting for you as it was for me.

Yeah, it is a it's a very sad case just in and of itself. I mean, we're talking about the disappearance of a girl who was 19 at the time. Her name was Tara Kalikow, and she disappeared in New Mexico from the area where she lived.

And just that just the fact that she's she's never been found like she basically vanished almost without a trace. That's just sad enough. And the more you dig into the story, it's very sad.

But it also has some like this extra couple of layers that you're average, like true crime, missing person, probably murdered person's story goes that make this case like one of the most fascinating recent true crime cases that I can think of. Yeah, yeah, I know you didn't like this one at all. Now, it was pretty upsetting, so you feel like you can make it through this one? I think so. It should be a laugh riot, right?

As usual.

So. Chuckles Just kind of give some background on this case for everybody who's not familiar.

OK, yeah, here's the deal. And, you know, Ed helped us put this together, and he takes great pains to point out quite a few times that we don't know exactly all the facts, but we know what we know from accounts from Tara's mom and a little bit from some other family members and a little bit from the case files, although I don't think all of those are available still. But I don't know, I saw otherwise. That's that's the problem with true crime is like especially in the age of the Internet, stuff just gets piled on with different weird facts that may or may not be true.

And, you know, down to down to like are the case files still intact, that kind of thing. But yeah, so so I think your larger point is where we don't exactly know all of the details. Right. Yeah.

What we do know is that in 1988 and September 20th, she went for a bike ride. She was athletic and took these very long bike rides, anywhere from 15 to 30 something miles on a regular basis. She was a 19 year old, smart, smart young woman and a student at University of New Mexico and was living in a place called, I guess, Belen, New Mexico.

Belin took her. I think it's Bill in Berlin. I think so, yeah. I think I heard somebody say it like that.

OK, and she left at nine thirty for this bike ride and was last seen at eleven forty five on highway forty seven, which is kind of the standard route that she usually took apparently. Yeah.

And there are just a couple of other details about Torro. She was you said she was an intelligent person. I believe she was a sophomore and in college and she was studying psychology or psychiatry, one of the two. I don't think she decided yet, but she was in the field of psychology and she was a bank teller, too. And when she headed out that day is very widely reported that she had told her mom, if I'm not back by noon, come looking for me.

I saw that mostly reported that she had said it kind of playfully, jokingly in jest, that kind of thing, not that she had set out that day going knowing that she was going to meet her, her grim fate, but that she had a Walkman with her, too, and that she was playing Boston. And I can only assume because she was out for a bike ride that she was listening to Boston's self-titled debut album, which has don't look back in it, which would be excellent for riding your bike to.

In 1988, maybe so, or it could have been the new one. It could have been there several that they released afterward. But Boston, she was listening to Boston. Just remember that. That's right.

And she was on her mom's bike, her huffy bike, and she had a white t shirt, first national bank of Belan and white shorts, green stripes, White Sox tennis shoes, a butterfly ring with diamond insert, a amethyst stone ring and then earrings, a half inch, half inch looping rings.

Yep.

And she was last seen, Chuck, from what I from what I understand, on her way back from her bike ride along Highway 47, about I think like 11, 45 a.m. or something like that. And then that was that was it. Like she was just riding along, listening to her headphones last time she was singing. The only other detail that adds like a very cryptic twist to that last sighting was that she was reported being followed, it looked like by old timey truck, like one from like the 50s, I think a Ford truck, like some weird color, like a dirty gray or something like that.

Yeah. And the cops. And there will be a few different people working on this case, as is usually the case when its missing persons, different agencies get involved. But in this case, Valencia County Sheriff Romero, his name is Lawrence Romero. He said that they found some bicycle tracks about four miles south of where she lived. And it looked like to them that they the bicycle had been dragged off the side of the road and then back. And they immediately thought that was pretty suspicious.

And then when you put it together with the the details of this pickup truck, then it was all of a sudden a pretty serious case to them. Right, yeah, I mean, because, you know, if you can't find a girl, she doesn't show up home when she says she's going to and she makes that joking, cryptic thing, of course, that's going to terrify her mom. And it did terrify her mom's name was Patty Dole.

And Patty was married to John Dole. And through John Tarah had two step siblings, Chris, her brother and her sister, stepsister Michelle. And just immediately, Patty was very, very worried when Tara didn't show up at home. And then once the once the evidence started coming in, she got increasingly worried. And probably the most tragic figure in this entire story is Patty, because from the moment like she started to get worried till the day she died in 2006, she was worried.

She was overwrought by this, like it just took her over and consumed her. But one of the things to her credit for sure is we'll see is that she didn't just like collapse and buckle and give in, which she would have it would have been very understandable had she done that. She instead channeled a lot of that fright and worry and concern into action and spent like the most of the rest of her life working tirelessly, trying to figure out what happened to her daughter, find some evidence, bring her home.

I don't think she ever gave up the the idea that that Tara might still be out there or at the very least bring bring her killers to justice. Yeah, I'm going to I'm going to go with Tara for the most tragic figure in the story.

But it was very sad what happened with her mom. She died in 2006, never getting any answers. Her biological father died in 2002. Her stepfather, you know, like anyone still holds out hope, although he you know, he readily admits this is from 1988 and the chances are almost zero that anything is ever going to come to fruition about this. But he did have she did have family that was looking out for her, you know, basically the rest of their lives.

Yeah, for sure. And her sister Michelle is still carrying that on, like after Patty died in 2006. Michelle kind of took over Patti's role of just trying to figure figure out what happened, trying to keep the story, the case in the press. And actually, while she was alive, Patty and her husband, John, managed to get deputized by the Valencia County sheriffs.

So they were they were actually allowed to carry guns. They were allowed to contact other law enforcement agencies on behalf of the Valencia County Sheriff's Department to investigate the case. That's the kind of like the level of dedication that that they went to, which is pretty, pretty cool. That's, you know, how they channeled that. Yeah. The sweet late 80s when you needed to be deputized to carry a gun.

Right, exactly. Because when I read that, I was like, it really took that back then. Yeah.

He thinks a New Mexico man, they have it locked down out there. So as far as clues go, they're are pretty scant.

That's one of the most frustrating things about this case. There are reports that they did find a Boston cassette tape a few miles from where she lived on that highway and then a piece of a Walkman at a campground 19 miles away. That it seems like a bit of a stretch to me. It was a long way from Highway 47, but you never know. But there wasn't any like they didn't prove necessarily that that was her tape or part of her Walkman or anything like that.

No, they didn't. But the I saw in a couple of places, this is one of those examples of the facts getting convoluted. I saw that the Boston tape was found with the front of her Walkman at the same location. And then also I saw that it was found elsewhere. So who knows? But that is like one of like even that one tangible fact is still questionable. And you can't even necessarily link it directly to her like you were saying, and that was it.

But that's all that was found. They didn't find either of her rings. They didn't find her shoes. They never found her bike. They never found anything except for those bike tire marks, which seem to be like a bike being dragged rather than ridden. And then that Boston tape and maybe or not a piece of the Walkman. And again, who knows if that was her stuff or not.

And they searched like like they searched the area pretty pretty thoroughly, from what I understand.

Yeah. I mean, any time there's a missing persons like this, you you have the big line of people marching through the woods is one of the saddest things that you can see in a movie or TV show. And I can't I've never seen one in real life, never want to see one in real life. But it's it's one of the saddest things you can witness is people literally combing a field or the forest for for the body of somebody, for sure.

So this.

Well, should we take a break? Yeah, I think it's break time. All right.

Let's take a break here and we'll talk a little bit about some of the things that happened after the disappearance right after this.

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All right, so we mentioned this truck, this pickup truck, that's vehicle number one in this case that you need to sort of take note of. Vehicle number two is a white van with no windows, which those are always a little bit scary. This was in 1989, June 15th. So less than a year after her disappearance in Port St. Joe, Florida.

And wait a minute, Chuck, how would a white van import single Florida a year later have anything to do with the disappearance of Tara Kalikow a year earlier in New Mexico? Well, it may or may not, but there was a little piece of evidence potentially that was left behind. This woman comes out of the convenience store, the van drives away, and then she looks down and notices a Polaroid on the ground that look like it was inside of a white van.

I think they later determined it was, in fact, from inside a van and on the inside of the van, it was taken sort of from outside looking in through the side door, probably were a couple of kids on some blankets and pillows, young boy around 10:00, and a young woman that looked like she was probably mid to late teenager. And they were look to be bound. Their hands were behind their back, although you couldn't see rope necessarily.

But I don't see why you would assume anything else.

They had duct tape over their mouth and they were kind of well tanned. And it's pretty, pretty disturbing.

Messed up picture. It's an extremely disturbing picture. It's it's alarming, actually, like when you see this, it sinks in what you're looking at. It's a deeply alarming picture, especially when you realize there like this is real. This was really found in a junior food store parking lot in 1989, imports central Florida like some poor lady like came across this picture and was, I'm sure, just terrified. And the picture is significant enough that the moment they found it, it was it was reported to authorities.

They started setting up roadblocks around the county, Gulf County, Florida, to try to find this white van that the the woman who found the picture had had seen parked in that parking spot when she came when she went in and was gone when she came out and found the picture. So it's a very alarming picture. And a lot of people said, I think that's Tara Kalikow. And the reason that Tara Khalikov and her family found out about it is because a family friend had seen it on A Current Affair.

Like this photo was so alarming and so sinister and also so inexplicable to me. It was not immediately traced to anybody. It was not known, came out immediately. I was like, oh, no, no, that was a hoax. We were just kidding. That kind of thing that ended up on TV. And very quickly, I guess, Tara Calicos mom had seen the The Current Affair episode and said, that's that's Tara.

And so for from that moment on in 1989 until today, it's that is forever been linked to the Tara Kalikow case, whether that's true or not. Yeah.

And there were a couple of other points about this picture. Clearly visible next to the young woman was the V.C. Andrews book My Sweet Audrina. You know, V.C. Andrews wrote Flowers in the Attic and those kind of disturbing horror, I guess. I mean, I don't know if they were horror, but they most of those books were about bad things that happen to kids.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And those the horrors is apt. Yeah. Horror books. Yeah.

And the other thing is that the young boy in the picture family immediately kind of came forward and said, hey, we think that that is our son Michael Hennelly. He disappeared on a camping trip in New Mexico in nineteen eighty eight as well. And I am just the mom talking said basically I'm just sure that's him. That was later kind of found out to not be true because about a year after that they found his body death to exposure. So it became pretty clear that he got lost in the woods and died out there.

Yeah, because his body was found not very far from the camping site that he disappeared from. So the chances that he had been abducted from that camping site kept in a van taken to Port St. Joe, Florida, and then taken back to New Mexico or even just abducted and kept in New Mexico, the chances are pretty slim. Chances are far higher that he wandered off and died of exposure. And that's what the coroner finally came up with to rule.

This is Michael Henley's death. But the fact that Michael Hennelly disappeared in New Mexico and that Tara Kalikow disappeared in New Mexico and that the two people, the the young woman and the boy in this picture resembled those two, just like I said, it's inextricably linked. That photo to this this case in Tara's mom apparently said forever that that she was sure that that was her daughter. She there's a discoloration on the girl in the photos like that. Tara's mom said matched her daughter's scar from a car accident that she'd gotten in.

And I believe her sister said also she said, if you had to ask me if I had to say yes or no, if that's Tara in the photo, I would say yes. But I also realize that, you know, this that that makes zero sense. That doesn't it just doesn't make sense for this case. But that photo, Chuck, I feel like, you know, a lot of people link that photo to this case, but that photo is not even, you know, guaranteed to be real.

There's a lot of points that people have raised over the years that say, I don't know if this is actually a photo of what it what it seems to be depicting.

Yeah, I'm not sure I agree with any of those points either, to be honest.

Well, one of the big ones is that it's never been matched to any missing person ever. Right. No one's ever come forward on the one hand and said this is just a hoax. We were just kidding. You can call off your search. But on the other hand, no one's ever said this is this is that boy and this is that girl that's missing. So it seems unlikely that a family would be unaware of that picture. A family that had taken that picture as a hoax would be unaware of it and not come forward, but it's doubly unlikely that two different families with two different kids that had been abducted would not be familiar with that picture, would be like, that's our son or that's our daughter.

Right? That's a big one to me. Yeah. But there was another one where someone said that her legs appeared to be shaved, and I think some people might surmise that that would be unusual for an abduction victim.

Yeah, I don't buy that. But that's what some people think, evidently.

OK, there's also if you look closely, the the the people in the photos shoulders aren't distressed, right? They're not in like a stress position. They're actually kind of relaxed. And if the if they were bound because remember, the bindings aren't visible in the photo, if they were bound, their shoulders would be pinned back a lot further than they are in that photo. So it suggests that they might not actually be bound. Right.

And that's possible, I guess. And then the last one that I saw was the tape that it should be much redder around the tape on their faces than it is if they've been wearing that tape for any significant amount of time.

Yeah, I don't get that one. I don't know why it's assumed that they had to be wearing the tape for a significant amount of time because they were wearing it in the picture.

Well, I don't know that it's saying like like, oh, well, that proves that they weren't actually abducted or being held hostage. I think what they're saying is that suggests that it had just recently been put on.

Yeah. Which I believe if someone was going to open the door to the van to take a picture of two bound children that they had snatched, they would probably put tape over their mouth for they open the door would be my guess.

The thing to me, the one point of all that that that just strongly suggests to me that that picture is not actually real is that it is never since being discovered in 1989, since being broadcast on A Current Affair, Oprah, America's Most Wanted, being all over the Internet, that no one has managed to link it to either the the boy or the young woman in that picture to a missing person that no one no one besides the Tara Calicos family, besides her family, has come forward and been like, no, that's our daughter.

That to me says that I don't know. I think it's I think it might be a hoax. I guess I hate that word these days, but I think that's what it is. Yeah.

And we also didn't point out that the Tara's mom said that that book in the picture was her favorite book. So, you know, who knows? It was definitely an interesting piece of evidence if that was her favorite book. Do you think that that was Tara Kalikow in the picture, or do you think you just think that the picture was real? That wasn't necessarily her? I didn't study it.

And I don't want to go on record for having an opinion on whether or not that was her.

OK, fair enough. Yeah. One thing we do know, though, is that, you know, this picture, like we said, it's alarming enough that the FBI got involved. It was broadcast on national television and Polaroid. It was a Polaroid, one of those the ones that you wave in the air to develop in just a few minutes. It was that kind of Polaroid and Polaroid analyzed it and said this this film that this was taken on, this film stock wasn't available until May of 1989.

So that that could that picture couldn't have been taken before May of 1989. So that's the picture, and it's not necessarily connected to the Tower Kalikow case, although as far as the world is concerned, especially the world of online sleuths, it is in some way or another always going to be connected to the Tar Kalikow case from now on.

Yeah, and there were some other pictures over the years that have come out that are also not connected yet somehow connected because of the Internet. And there was there was one that was a couple of people joking around on the train. It looks like a young woman and a guy a little bit older. And to me, it just looks like two people goofing around on a train for sure. I'm not sure why so sinister. The other one is another young woman with tape over her mouth.

And there is a similar similarity to the straight pillow is that Polaroid? And it was found in California at a construction site.

But you can't you can't really identify much about her at all. And I think the only reason it's connected is because, hey, it's another picture of a young woman with tape on her mouth.

Yeah, it looks vaguely like her. And that's that's not like if you go on to Reddit or Web sleuths or any of these online forums about this case, there's at least several other photos that have been associated over time that seem to just be like, here's an amateur BDM photo that somebody took and I found somewhere. And I think that's Tara Kalikow. And this is evidence rather than this is just somebodies picture from, you know, a wild Saturday night or something like that.

Right. For sure. The Internet definitely has that effect for sure. So, Chuck, before I guess this is a pretty good place to put an American, then maybe we'll come back and talk about conspiracies. Yeah, let's do it. OK, we'll be right back, everybody.

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So there are a couple of conspiracies that have emerged over the years since then, many, many years later in 2008, the sheriff of Valencia County at the time, Renee Rivera, said that he had some information about what happened and he was just waiting to release this information. He wanted to build an airtight case, get all the evidence and perhaps even locate her body. And here here was the quote. The information I have is that the truck accidentally ended up hitting her.

I believe the truck bumped her bike, at which time she fell to the side of the road. From there, the individuals took her. And remember, the truck that he's referencing is that truck that was supposedly following her when she was last seen like 11. Forty five a.m..

That's right. And that she was killed later on, maybe because she threatened to call the cops or something and that there could be a couple of extra people involved in this case.

Right, so he said, but I'm not going to be arresting anybody because we don't have a body and I want everybody, so I'm just going to sit here and hold press conferences instead. And John Dole, Tara's stepfather, came out publicly and it's like that was the dumbest thing I've heard in a very long time. Like, OK, if you if you want, like, an airtight case and you need to find Tara's body to do that, fine.

But you don't publicize everything else. You know, because to John Dole, that was that seemed like a bit of a warning to the to the suspects that were out there. At the very least, it just seemed foolish to him or a waste of time. And the thing is, is that Sheriff Rivera, who I believe is still the Valencia County sheriff, hasn't made any arrests since that press conference. And admittedly, Tara's body has not been found.

But it does seem like a weird thing to do. So that was kind of like one of the first things that that kind of reinvigorated this case that had managed to be kept alive over the the 90s, but really started to kind of come back in the 2000s. And, you know, multiple lights have been shown on it. But even beyond, like, you know, somebody doing a story on it or a follow up or an interview with her sister or brother or something, the the police investigations into head kind of like piques our increased interest in the 2000s as well.

Yeah.

So now a character enters name Melinda Esquibel, and she is a blogger and a podcast her and I guess one of these sleuths and had done a lot of work on this case. And apparently at one point and this was in about 2010, was at least said she was working on a documentary film about Tara and that she had information on the body and that she was being followed and that threats were being made. So in 2010, state police officer in New Mexico, author Ortiz, he was brought in for a meeting about this case, mainly because of what was going on with Isabel and her research and what she said.

Yeah, she said she is getting death threats, right? Yes. So that that actually kind of reinvigorated this case. Well, it almost did. Ortiz started to kind of look into it a little more, but was eventually told like, hey, that's the Valencia County sheriff's case and just leave it to them. So we're going to reassign you. And that was that. Apparently, the death threats or I guess it was death threats that Melinda Esquibel said she was getting were enough to make her move to L.A. And then later on, she came back and started investigating the case again with Michele DOWL, Tara's stepsister, and they released a podcast called Vanished the Terror, the Tara Calicos story about this investigation that was, I believe, revealed some new some new facts and definitely pieced a lot of stuff together.

Yes. So back in 2010, when Ortiz got this information, he met with Sheriff Rivera. And Rivera, for his part, said, you know what, there was a thorough investigation. We identified three possible suspects. One of them is dead now.

And I also got some information about where this body might be and basically who was captain donc dongles. It sounds fun and I guess worked alongside Rivera, is that what it was? It was kind of hard to tell. That was what I got as well.

I mean, it's a quote from Ortiz, and he's just kind of presuming everybody was reading this, quote, understands who Captain Don Argus is. Maybe it's Sheriff Rivera's imaginary friend or something, Captain.

It does sound like that. It does either be one joke in here. Yeah.

So Don Argus advised advised them that there was a, you know, a dig basically at this location where they thought the body was and that they didn't find anything. But they did they did dig for the body at this place. Right.

And then, like I said, Ortiz basically gets moved off of the case because he's state police and this is Valencia County's turf.

So so that was that was kind of like a that was 2010. And that was some some new fresh blood investigation injected into the case. And then in 2013, the state police interviewed a guy named Frank Matola, who was a former deputy with the Valencia County Sheriff's Department. He's not any longer. He apparently was kind of drummed out of the sheriff's office, possibly for stuff that was unrelated to that. I saw he was arrested while he was still a sheriff's deputy because he had failed to appear in court for causing a crash in a neighborhood during a high speed chase.

Oh, interesting. Yeah.

So it's possible that something like that led to his dismissal. But regardless, he came forward after he was no longer a deputy and said, hey, while I was the deputy, I interviewed this guy named Henry Browne. And Henry Browne was said he was dying and he needed to get something off of his chest. And he he gave an official statement. And the statement, from what I understand, definitely exists and has been verified. This isn't just like hearsay, but that Henry Browne said, I was friends with this guy and his name was Lawrence Romero Jr.

And Lawrence Romero Jr. was not a he was a bit of a he was not he was not a good guy necessarily, from what I understand. But he was the sheriff's son, Lawrence Romero Jr. at the time that that all this happened, that Tara Kalikow went missing. He was the sheriff of Valencia County. And Henry Browne said, I was friends with Junior.

And one day I was hanging out at Junior's house and the the subject of Tara Kalikow came up. And before I knew it, Lawrence Romero Jr. and another guy were admitting that they had killed her and that her body had been right there where we were sitting not too long before, which they had moved her body after they started searching for. And then they took her and moved her to a pond later on. And that's where she remains. But that he definitely killed her.

And the reason why nothing ever came of it because he was the sheriff's son. And that apparently was given that that statement was given and written down and taken into into the record by the Valencia County Sheriff's Department. Yeah.

And apparently some of these guys were involved with dealing drugs and that may have had something to do with it. There was also a report in that statement that it was sort of a conspiracy and that that Deputy Rivera had their backs was the direct quote. So, you know, maybe because the son was in deep trouble, the deputy got involved and made sure that that sort of stayed buried. But again, this is you know, I think to call this hearsay is pretty, pretty accurate.

But it's also a pretty juicy deathbed story, which, you know, these always play well in these kind of cases for sure.

I also saw that there was another guy who who gave a third hand confession or a second hand confession like that, said that Lawrence Romero Jr. confessed to him as well. And Lawrence Romero Jr. died in 1991 from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. And it's not clear whether he died by suicide or other people say that he was playing Russian roulette very foolishly and it did not go so well. But either way, he died in 1991 within a couple of years of Tara Calicoes disappearance.

So at the time, again, his father was sheriff of Valencia County. And this deputy Rivera, who supposedly had the the Romeros backs, became sheriff later and is now still sheriff of Valencia County, from what we understand. And what's weird, though, is a lot of that statement jibes with Rivera's weirdo press conference that he held in 2008 that. That these these kids had you know, she was being followed in a trunk, she was bumped by a truck, she was bumped from behind, she was killed, that the the people's family helped them cover up the crime.

He just stopped short of saying who it was. And that was just very odd if he was the one that was helping cover things up. To have that press conference is is a very odd thing to do if you're in on it, you know. Yeah.

And the one thing we didn't mention earlier, that's pretty important, too. If you think back to that Polaroid, if you're asking yourself, like, surely they analyzed this thing for real.

And it's not just up to Internet people to to compare photos. There were a few different organizations that looked into it. And they very frustratingly, one said, yes, we think that's her. One said, no, that's not. And one said, well, we can't be sure. So that just leads to the frustration to literally have three groups looking into this and each of them have a different take on it kind of leads you back to nowhere for sure.

And if it's frustrating for us or for the Web sleuths or whoever's listening, think of what it's like for the family.

You know, to hear you just rather hear everybody say yes or everybody say no to have it just inconclusive like that or contradictory, it's just got to make it so much harder. Yeah, for sure. Ultimately, when you put all the pieces on the table, which one makes more sense that she was killed locally and it was covered up by some local families who had the ability to cover it up or that she was abducted and ended up somehow in a Polaroid in Port St.

Joe, Florida, a year later. And I think that's what her sister was saying, where where she was saying, if I look at this photograph, I know that it's Tara. But I also realized that that explanation makes the least sense of all the explanations that are out there.

Right. So the case is still ongoing in 2019. The FBI apparently out of nowhere, released a 20000 dollar reward for information on the Tara Kalikow case. No one apparently has any idea what prompted them to do that or why they did it. But it's out there. So if you know anything about Tara Calicos disappearance and you want to make a call, 20 grand, get in touch with the FBI or don't even do it for the money, do it for the humanity.

How about that? Yeah.

And that's it, huh? You got anything else? I got nothing else. Well, then I guess that's it for the Tara Kalikow case, hopefully for now. And since I said that, it's time for listener mail.

Uh, I'm going to call this math, math, math.

I was hoping you were going to ignore this or you hadn't seen it at all. Well, I don't even know if I mean, if this person is right, this could be one of those great ones where then someone corrects the correction.

That would be great. But we'll soon somebody, uh.

Hey, guys, listening to one 800 podcast and responding to Chuck's anticipation for a correction of Josh's math. Josh, your confidence and certainty in your math are charming and inspiring. And I appreciate it when people say something with conviction. Um, now onto the sour part. Josh, you almost had the math, right? But for some reason, you stated that the last seven digits range from technically one million to nine million nine hundred ninety nine thousand nine hundred ninety nine.

This were true. Then you would be correct in your calculations. But according to what I can find, that does not seem to be the case. The FCC website and toll free number spells out prefixes which are available, but it does not provide a restricted range available for the last seven digits if you enter zero zero zero zero zero zero zero as the last seven digits to check that if a number is available, there is no information about that being an invalid option.

Mm hmm. I'm not quite sure I follow. For example, I checked one eight three three all zeros and it said there that it was available. So then that brings us the range from all zeros to all nines, which provides us with ten million, not nine million. Sorry, Josh. So when you multiply that by seven prefixes, you get 70 million combos, seven times nine million a 63 million, not 54 million.

The only reason that I'm sending this email is not to draw attention to a well, actually, you did the math wrong wire, but rather because Chuck drew attention to it. So blame him, Josh. OK, all right.

I'll go with that. Can I blame you both? Sure. I think that's most appropriate.

And that's from Noah in Philadelphia. Uh, we saw you guys at the Bell house. My sister and I saw you for her twenty fifth birthday. Please give a shout out to Becca if this ends up on the show, so. Hello, Becca.

Happy very belated birthday, Becca.

Well, she's had another one since then.

Have birthdays, I guess we do the Bell house in October, so it's coming up in twenty twenty.

Who knows. Um, well thanks a lot Noah. And thanks to you ambacher for coming to see us live. Eventually we will be out there live again. Can't wait. Yes, it'll be nice. So keep an ear out. I don't know when but we will eventually.

And in the meantime, if you want to get in touch with us, you can do it by email. Send it off to Stuff podcast that I heart. Radio dot com.

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