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Zordon Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences, listener discretion is advised.


I mean, you're literally six inches away from me, you curly headed moron. Hello and welcome to season seven and a surprise Episode one sixty nine of Soad and Scale, a show that reveals the worst monsters are real.


OK, so here's what happened. There was a hurricane coming, we didn't put out an episode last week. There was a lot of other things going on in the background we don't have to bore you with. But instead of just skipping a week, we decided, hey, you know what? Let's call up my old friend Charles Adams and have a discussion about all the goings ons of the world because there's plenty of goings ons. And let's have just an old school, old style talk radio format.


Let's do that. How about that? You want to do that? Well, it doesn't matter if you want to or not, because we're doing it, this is what we're doing today, we're going to completely go off the rails and have a discussion about crime and law enforcement and all the things we talked about back in 168 and then a few other things as well. You know, every now and then I look at our iTunes reviews and I'm like, we don't have enough one stars, so let's just screw it all up.


That's why we're here. And you know what? This episode wasn't supposed to happen anyway. So if you don't like it, just skip it. It's fine. It's it's fine. It's going to be fine. We're going to be back to our old format next week as planned. But if you're one of those die hard fans, it just cannot stop hearing certain scale and the lovely, lovely sounds of my beautiful voice. Well, here you go.


Congratulations. This is our gift to you for us not dying in a Category four hurricane which just missed us, by the way, we didn't get like a drop of rain. It just literally just missed us. So we're happy about that. It's unfortunate for everyone else that was in its path. But, hey, shit happens. All right, with that, let's just get right into it. This is a super long episode and it's filled with my personal opinions.


So you're welcome. Adnan did it. Let's go. Oh. OK, we're living in a dystopian nightmare, I'm not sure if it's actually a nightmare or a sick joke by some hack on Twitter, but here we are. We did an episode a few weeks ago that was about what was going on at the time. It was timely. It was smart.


It was about covid-19. Everyone hated it. And we put it out there. And a lot of you got mad. A lot of you got mad that we were telling you how things were actually working in the world rather than selling you the same bullshit you can see on the evening news day after day. Well, guess what?


We're not the kind of show that tries to appease you and tries to give you exactly what you ask for. This isn't Burger King. Like I said before, we're going to tell you how it is. And if you don't like it, then that's between you and the world has nothing to do with us. But you want to apply it to us. You say you don't like us because we're telling you the truth. Well, that's up to you.


That's your problem, not mine. The one thing we're not going to do is sit here and lie to you, sit here and appease you and your politics and your thoughts. Tell you you're right because a lot of you are not right. Let's face it, a lot of you make pretty poor decisions based on just raw emotion, the fact of the matter is deep down, you're trying to do the right thing. Everyone deep down thinks they're doing the right thing even when what they're doing is completely immoral and harming others.


Well, that's why we're here.


God, I sounded so angry in that segment. Know, I, I don't I don't hate you. I love you guys. Well, I love a lot of you guys.


A major percentage of you are quite nice. You're not assholes, like at least 60 percent. I mean, that's a good hard 60.


The rest of you, you know. So with that said, we had an episode we put out recently which caused a hell of a response, that episode was one sixty eight about William Hurt, and we used the phrase, don't talk to cops. You can go back and listen to why we said that our one hour justification for it and hear the entire story for yourself.


But we stand by that statement. And today, after surviving the Category four hurricane that was headed towards Houston, we have a little bit of time to explain why. But but yeah, I know. I love a good 60 percent of you. Just love you, just love you to death, to death. Regardless of that, you can, you know, choose to listen to this or not listen to this at any moment. So thank you so much if you're still here and still being offended.


Here is what we're going to talk about today. We're going to play a few clips from calls we had after Episode 168 debuted on the regular feed, for example. Here's one of them right now. Yes.


I just wanted to call in and thank you for your podcast. I very much enjoy it. In particular, I'd like to thank you for Episode 168. I am a single father to an 11 year old son, and I think that the information in 168 was extremely important and extremely well timed. I listened to parts of the podcast with my son and we discussed it. And it is one of the topics that he and I will be discussing more in the future.


Fantastic. Thank you so much.


Like you see, that's kind of what I expected. That's what a normal person does. They thank you for the information you're providing. They see that it's something that they didn't have in their existence prior and it helps them in some way and then they respond accordingly. Here's another one. Hi, good afternoon. Greetings from Texas. I'm going to try to it brief, but in reference to Episode 168, which I just finished listening to, I felt super compelled to call in and tell you that as a 28 year law enforcement veteran, six of which were spent in criminal investigations of crimes against persons and children specifically, and two of those years spent in internal affairs, I can tell you that you were absolutely spot on, 100 percent correct, to never talk to the police.


I studied the Reid technique, among other techniques, for many, many years before becoming a detective. And even after I continue to follow the teachings, just keep updated on what it was they were teaching. And when I left class, I made a promise to myself to never, ever, under any circumstance employ that technique whatsoever. I find the behavior in the conduct of those specific detectives to be lazy and have horrible and lacking in every bit of investigation or intention whatsoever.


And thank God in most states, thank goodness. Rather, in my state, confession has to be accompanied by physical evidence. A confession alone will not stand in court, particularly in Texas, for that very, very reason. So anyway, I just wanted to dispense with a fantastic episode. Kind of makes me miss being a detective a little bit because I love talking to people, but certainly not ever in that manner or using that technique. And just as a side note, my husband is a firefighter and I have told him from day one, do not under any circumstance talk to the police.


I mean it. And I hope he listens to me. So from that position, you take care and keep up the good work by. Charles Adams from KPRC 950 and other places you're on the television now, is that is that true?


Can I say that there is I cannot I'm about to have something new on local television coming up, but I can't say what it is as of yet.


And of course, we know you and your voice, your very discernible voice from the covert episode we had here, Episode one 60, which was one of the most controversial episodes we've ever done on certain scale.


I mean, initially I thought, you're going to say my sexy voice and my feelings will be hurt, that I'll be somewhat muted for most of the show. But I thought it was, you know, arguably the best episode of getting. Yes, I really enjoyed it. It's probably one of my favorite things in media to ever do. I love talking to you. I love having you on my radio program. But it was a lot of fun to do.


Sawatzki and I got a lot of positive feedback, so I didn't get any negative. I guess they say that for you.


Yeah, well, you know, I get a lot of it. Speaking of your sexy voice, I am a big fan of of it. And you and I listen to your show all the time on KPRC nine 50 is called The Truth with Charles Adams. You can find it on my heart radio and everywhere you listen to podcasts, but I usually listen to it on my phone. And today, before this call, I had some time to kill.


So I turned on my phone and I played it. And this is what I heard.


I'm like, you're literally six inches away from me, you curly headed moron.


Yeah, that was one of my neighbors that had gotten on my elevator. And elevators are one of the most dangerous places to encounter covid-19 because you don't have circulating air. But his dog ran on, which is fine. You're required to be on a leash. That's an expensive building. I live in the penthouse. Oh, don't get carried on me with the leash. I don't mind, but I ran the dog, ran up, started licking my Lukas's, which is fine.


I was the one where the quarter was early. But then it gets right in my face to bend down and I'm like, hey man, you know, you, you're supposed to wear a mask in the building when you're not in your apartment. And he just goes apeshit on me. And, you know, people feel comfortable that they're not going to get punched in the face. And I was just rude back. But, you know, we disagree.


Maybe I think that if we would all follow the rules, we would have never had to shut down the economy. And I wouldn't have lost one hundred fifty thousand dollars over the last few months. So, you know, yeah, I'm passionate about it. There's a lot of there's a lot of punching in the face these days. There's a lot of actual violence going on in the streets and a lot of animosity just in general like people are. Just a couple of different things have happened all at once and people are just pretty angry and a lot of different ways.


One of the things I want to talk about is sort of related to that. I mean, we've seen this sort of violence going on now for months and months and months and animosity mostly directed towards law enforcement. We did an episode last week, Episode one sixty eight, which was about a young man, an 18 year old, William Hurt. He was charged with murdering his fifty four year old uncle Marcus, garlicky in June of twenty twelve. Police believe that he was beaten, strangled.


His body was placed in the Ohio River sometime in June. And had William hurt the eighteen year old that the confession was elicited from, had he been convicted, he would have been sentenced to between forty five to sixty five years in prison on the murder charge and from six to twenty years for each of the other charges. Garlicky was homeless and there were reports from his own brother that he was suicidal and had attempted suicide. In the past, William hurt the teenager who was interrogated for hours and hours to elicit this false confession was proven not guilty.


He had nothing to do with the death of Marcus Galecki. And this entire case is a textbook example of how false confessions can be procured using this weird thing called that I'd never heard of, by the way, before, because I've actually talked to detectives many times over the last six, seven years. Nobody's ever mentioned the Reid method until we found out about it on this particular case. It's kind of sort of a secret. And once we started talking about it on the last episode, we got calls from people that were pissed off, not people, detectives that were pissed off that we were sort of putting this out there.


You have a long history in the criminal justice system. What's your thoughts on this Reid method? Well, and I'll be honest with you, I had never heard it referred to as the Reid method until Episode one eight and I. I'll tell you, one sixty eight is from someone that has, you know, as a police officer and an attorney and a judge, it was very painful for me to listen to. You could tell from the beginning how it was going, and it's horrifying.


But I was taught interrogation techniques in the police academy back in 93, 94, but it mirrored the Reid method as it was, you described it, but it was not called the Reid method. So that might be one reason why even many law enforcement officers aren't familiar with the term, because it's not a term that you, Lisa, was never used in any of the coursework. I did or subsequent in-service training. But I've absolutely used it. But it is something that's is it something that is formally taught in some way?


Is there some sort of.


Oh, well, certainly it's taught as an interrogation technique. And I was always a patrol officer. But you do take courses both in the academy and in-service training. And, you know, after you have to take so many hours a year like a lawyer or an account or doctor to maintain your certification.


And I was taught it specifically those very terms, those very methods. But it was not called the method. It was just called interrogation techniques.


Oh, by the way, here is a YouTube video explaining the Reid method of interrogation.


What is the Reid technique? The Reid technique is a method of interrogating suspects in a crime. It is used by many police forces around the world and is particularly popular in the United States. The technique was created by a man named John Reid, and his company sells videos and other training materials, teaching people the particularities of how to properly use it. This method, which relies on assuming absolute guilt from the very beginning of the interrogation process, has critics who believe that it causes people to confess when they aren't actually guilty.


It's been banned in some countries for this reason and is often the subject of major controversy in the beginning of an interrogation. An individual using the Reid technique will start by going through a long explanation of exactly why the suspect is guilty. This is typically done in a very nice and friendly way. The interrogator goes to great lengths to avoid being interrupted by the suspect and tries to forestall any denials. The next step is normally to start giving the suspect an out of some kind.


For example, in a murder case, the interrogator might envision a scenario where the murder almost seems justified. A police officer using the technique may even seem to sympathize with the suspect's hypothetical motives. At the same time, they will generally offer contrasting possible motives that are much worse so that the suspect is more likely to jump on the less incriminating possibility. People trained to resist the Reid technique will usually try to maintain an atmosphere of total confrontation.


From the beginning, the person under suspicion doesn't want to fall into the trap of believing that the interrogator is her friend. The general idea is to challenge any assertions and immediately turn everything into an argument. In some cases, it's even recommended that the person under interrogation should personally insult the interrogators so that the atmosphere turns as hostile as possible. Some say the Reid technique is an unjust way to interrogate people. It's been blamed for many false confessions, especially among juveniles and those with mental handicaps.


There are also plenty of people who favor the technique, and they generally stress the fact that it's only used when investigators are nearly certain that the person being questioned is guilty.


And like long time listener, currently a police officer in on the West Coast and listening or in the middle of listening, absurd, someone sexy and a little disturbing with how you introduce some good advice. But at the same time, you know, being in law enforcement is hard enough to get a job. And somebody like you said, enough about not talking to the cops. You know, it's good advice. Well, what about those pedophiles? What about those murderers?


What about those people who commit assaults? What about their victims? You didn't do them any justice. You didn't help them at all. Might want to rethink that next time you start thinking that you're going to start changing people's minds. I'll continue to listen, but might want to rethink your whole goal here, maybe in life and doing this podcast, be neutral. Don't don't start leaning one way or the other. Be neutral. Thanks. So there was a time and I remember this, I was working night shift patrol, but I had had to hold over for four hours, which means I had to work till mid-morning the next day because someone had called in sick.


And a 12 year old girl had made an outcry at her junior high that her stepfather had paid her to watch porn with him and then forced him to perform oral sex. So you take the alcohol report, you go to school, you talk to the teacher. I think it was a counselor. She said to that, I talk to her and I take her to Texas Children's. And then I just do the initial report as a police officer, as a patrol officer, I got to work the next evening.


I came early because I had left straight from law school to go to work. And when I got there, two female detectives, one detective sergeant and one detective were trying to interrogate the suspect who they had just recently picked up. I watched them do it from outside for about an hour. They were getting no where he was from Mexico, very macho. And they were trying to intimidate him and he just wasn't having it. So I asked them if I could have a shot at it after about an hour.


And I went in there and talked to him and agreed with him how attractive and older his 12 year old stepdaughter looked and how I don't know if I could control myself and held his hand. Oh, that must have been hard. That must have been so. Yeah. Yeah. And then and then he gave it all up, admitted to it. We caught the mother screaming at the daughter outside of the Sally Port and she bonded him out and they fled back to Mexico with the child.


So horrible story that I did manipulate him into a confession. But I believe it was a sincere confession because he gave a tremendous number of details on what he did to that young girl. And it was absolutely horrifying.


Jesus, there is that sort of aspect to it. We've all heard the terms, good cop, bad cop. And that is actually a way to coerce someone into confessing by having this psychological manipulation taking place in that room. But this seems to go way further into a land that's a little gray about what's OK and what isn't. One of the statistics that I saw was forty two to fifty five percent of suspects will confess during an interrogation in the US.


Now are forty two to fifty five percent of suspects guilty or is there something else going on here? Are we how many how many of these people are are being manipulated? How many these people are below average IQ or perhaps under the influence or have some other psychological ailment that is being exploited to elicit a confession? And how many of these detectives just kind of want to go home and get this over with and put this person in jail and don't really care if they did it or not?


I don't think that is. They don't care if they just want to go home instead. I think it's they very early on decide what they believe happened, even if it's not supported by, you know, actual evidence or circumstantial evidence. They just think that their instinct has led them to the right suspect and they rationalize everything they do to achieve the goal of charging the person they believe did it. The problem is human beings are fallible and they get it wrong.


It's also hard for people that have it bit in that circumstance to understand why anyone would give a false confession, because you as the average citizen, they'd be. Well, why would you ever say you did it if you didn't do it? But the fact is that when you sit in that room and actually win one sixty eight, four hours isn't a long time. There are situations like the what is the Central Park five where they kept them for tens of hours.


And it is you know, there's a mixture of brutality and friendliness and coercion that creates this entire snowball that just runs out. People get to the point psychologically. And then obviously it's far easier to manipulate people with low IQ or mental retardation or other deficiencies. But there are very intelligent people that just get overwhelmed with the desire to give the government what they want to hear so they will stop just destroying them in a room. And like in one sixty eight, the kid didn't know.


He could just say, hey, I want to leave or hey, I want a lawyer and they have to stop. And it was I mean it was really disgusting in a lot of officers need to listen to one sixty eight. In fact I know not to blow smoke up your ass, but I do think it would tremendously help officers who labor under the misconception that people don't falsely confess. And I think a lot of citizens should listen to it, too, especially before jury service, because you do have people you know, when people serve as a juror on a felony, they want to give the government, even though it's beyond a reasonable doubt, this extreme burden the state allegedly has, your natural instinct as the type of citizen that shows up for jury duty is to be the type of citizen that wants to give the government what they are wanting, which is a conviction, which is.


So very, incredibly difficult to obtain the opposite. And I mean, it's like I said, it was very hard to listen to, but very educational.


Well, listen, you can blow as much smoke up my ass as you want. You know, I welcome it. I like smoke up my ass. It's fun, but I think that's part of it, too. That's that's part of the the interrogation techniques that are used. It's it's sort of like it's within human nature to if you're sitting across from another human being to try to please them in some way. And so when you have this one on one conversation with this detective, that's sort of like trying to be your friend, but also has, you know, some demands from you and trying to elicit something from you, there is this natural instinct to try to try to please that person by giving them what they want.


It's part of like just human nature, I think. Right.


And it's hard. It's hard, especially if you've grown up as a law abiding citizen like the kid did. Clearly, it's hard for you even when they're browbeating you and calling you a murderer and a liar. It's hard to see the law enforcement as the bad guys. And they were very clearly the bad guys in this situation. And it's it's sad and it's horrifying and it's something you can never get. I had a case as a defense attorney where there was a very popular tattoo place on fifty nine in Houston called Dagos.


There was a shooting, a murder in the parking lot. And my guy's brother had went in there and filled out the paperwork and him and his brother were outside in the parking lot waiting for their tattoo. There were African-American and the the murderer was African-American, but the similarities ended there.


But when the cops showed up with a warrant at their house, they started tearing up the house part of the apartment.


And my guy got the red ass. He you know, he got pissed off because they were tearing up a shit.


Can I say that? Can I curse? I'm here for sure. You can, of course, curse all the time like a caricature.


But anyhow, so they end up just taking some denim shorts and a white t shirt because that's what the murderer was wearing. And follow my guy for murder and he sits in jail.


Is grandmother paying me from New Orleans? Murders take a long time to get in trial. He sat there actually longer than the eight months of the kid, one six days out there for almost a year and a half. And there was a videotape from the parking lot which the police would not give the district attorney's office. And finally, we got to the point where I got the judge mad enough and he said, you know, if it's not here on Monday, you know, this case is over.


They finally produced the video completely clear that it was not, my God, this was just some HPD detectives trying to close a case in mad at my guy for being rude to them when they were serving a warrant. And he was really rude to them. But wouldn't you be if people were tearing apart your apartment? So there are some just there's awful policing out there. I think it's the exception than the anomaly. But and it sucks. And to think of this, this kid that his uncle committed suicide, he gets terrible things, sits in jail for a year.


You never get those eight months of your life back in jail is not a pleasant place. And it can have long term PTSD on you, especially if you're innocent. I mean, it's it's heartbreaking. Yeah. Tell me about it if you're going to jail, Mike, can I ask you that?


Yeah. No, you know, there was an incident where I was pulled over at one point and I was charged with a DUI and I spent a night in jail. And I am sorry for asking that.


I did what I listed. I figured the answer was no, no, no.


That would surprise surprises till then and hopefully away after then, until the rest of my life, there will never be another instance of that. And that was because I cut an old person off and they followed me for seven miles after that. And that's what happens in Miami. Angry drivers. But but but I'll tell you what.


It was the worst night of my life. It's awful. Could you imagine doing it eight months when you know you're innocent or someone like Michael Morton here in Texas?


And it's not just it's not just that. It's it's the probably years of trying to litigate and get out of that and like, you know, do all your community service and whatever. After that, it doesn't go away. Once you get stuck in that system, you know, you get you find yourself in the closet. That system you are in for a ride and there's nothing you can do about it. We're going to talk more about that in just a second.


But before we do, let's take a quick break. Here's a call from a mom as a mom being a mom.


Hi. I just finished listening to Episode 168, and I just want to thank you. As a mom of two teenage boys, I am going to force them to listen to this episode because I think it is so important for them. To understand, to never talk to police and to always get a lawyer, thank you so much that I. How are you doing, Charles, man? You know, I survived as we both did the hurricane here in Houston.


I'm very sick of this pandemic, economic shutdown. I have to go spend quarantine for two weeks overseas next month. I'm just full of first world problems.


What are you doing overseas? Well, we have to get into that for a second. What are you doing overseas during quarantine? What are you doing? I am going with my youngest, who's starting his master's degree in a foreign country. Oh, wow. I'm going to we have to spend two weeks in quarantine in that country before I can spend a week getting into his apartment and then coming back home.


Have you thought of maybe not doing that at all? I mean, my, my, my both my kids are very, very smart and academically very, very successful. He's excited about a very, you know, top tier program and a top tier school, a global school. And, you know, if I could go live in a foreign land on my father's dime when I was young, I would have done it. I didn't grow up with that circumstance.


But his his penthouse apartment is costing me a thousand dollars a week. Wow. So it's. Yeah, but I love him. He's a sweet kid. He graduated from undergrad and a top 10 university in three years, Phi Beta Kappa. So, you know, I want to facilitate his dreams. That's why I work all the time and have all these jobs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It makes sense.


You want to I mean, you do everything for your ducks', right? I mean, you're doux, you know, no bounds of course, kind of to say, all right, that's enough of that. Let's leave my ducks out of this.


You know, it's funny because we're living in a time now where it seems to be a changing of the guard and the young people of today are telling the old boomers to go to hell in a lot of different scenarios.


You mentioned earlier about how, you know, these cops in these situations of interrogation, they've rationalized what they're doing because they've picked the side, they've picked a narrative and because they are so sure about that being true, everything else that comes after that is justified.


And we're seeing that in major cities today. We've seen it just yesterday. I mean, at the time of this recording in Wisconsin. Do you have anything to say about what's going on in the world right now in terms of value, referring to Kenosha, Wisconsin, and Carl Rittenhouse?


Yeah, Jacob Lake, that's correct. I think I think there are a lot of conservative pundits who don't understand the law, who are arguing that Carl Rittenhouse was legally justified in all three of the shootings he is accused of in Wisconsin. I've done a bit of research on it, and I also am very aware of the applicable Texas law.


So if he had in Texas, if he had some actual relationship with the business that the alleged arsonist was trying to burn the car dealership, he could probably use deadly force at night if the person was on the property. But it's very narrow and it's would just be a defense to prosecution, not a defense to being charged or anything.


Wait, so you're saying that you're saying that he has to be and he has to have some sort of relationship with the business that he's trying to protect from being brought to the ground? Right.


You can't, as a citizen, just go up and shoot a guy that you think is an arsonist, even if he's actually an arsonist. You couldn't do that in Texas. You most certainly couldn't do it in Wisconsin.


Now, can you go up and beat a guy that's protecting a business with a gun? Oh, no. Did did you see the horrible story about the employee, the elderly employee of the mattress store in Kenosha who was just using a fire extinguisher to try to run the arsonist out, put out the fire and someone bashed him with a bottle and left him on the ground and then people were trying to protect him all the while, quote unquote, protesters, rioters were, in fact, being, you know, trying to rationalize this beating of this 73 year old man.


Now, there's disgusting criminality going on that the mainstream media is saying is just protest. And if you'll look at the Bill of Rights, mostly peaceful, that you have a right to the peaceful. You're right. You have a right to peacefully assemble. And while there are people that are being peaceful and there are people that merely want to see paradigmatic change in policing in America, there's also a you know, a number of people that are a number of disgusting criminals, victimizers that are exploiting the situation to their own ends and trying to disrupt Americanism.


And we are the greatest country in the world and we have our problems that need to be fixed. But this anti Americanist movement is frightening. And but the problem is this young man, Rittenhouse, and he's legally he's got it 17. He's reached his majority for the criminal laws in Wisconsin. So he's an adult. He had no legal right to shoot some guy, even if that guy was throwing a Molotov cocktail and engaged in the group that was committing arson in Kenosha.


And if you instigate violence in almost every state in the Union, you are waiving the the the the right to self-defense. So while if you look at the video that shows the other guy's clearly one guy was trying to sucker him into lowering his weapon so he could shoot him, the guy that Renou shot in the arm and the other guy was, it appears, was throwing Molotov cocktails or some other devices as a guy hitting him with a skateboard.


That's the far right attack.


Right. And Rittenhouse heads. But at that point, because he in the instigated the violence by shooting the person off the video, he very well may have waived his right to self-defense.


And you have to take a minute to correct the record right here. All three of the alleged victims that Rittenhouse shot were criminals with extensive rap sheets. Two of them had charges of sexual assault in their history, violent sexual assault. One of those was against a minor. Yes, a pedophile, allegedly. These are not innocent protesters. And Rittenhouse was out there that night trying to protect local businesses. Whether you agree with that or not, that's irrelevant.


There is video evidence that there were shots fired before Rittenhouse fired his weapon. Hey, we're just waiting for this all to come out and you don't start a riot and start burning down cities in the meantime because things aren't going your way. That's not how it works in America. That's not at least how it should work in America today. I'm just an immigrant. Why would you listen to me? This whole abolished or abolished prison, so we don't really mean abolish prisons, we're just saying abolish prisons or defund police, we don't really mean defund police.


We're just saying do. A lot of those are just radicalized extremists that live in this naive world of a utopia that doesn't require that there aren't monsters out there, as you would say. And of course, there are. And they need to have consequence. And, you know, I contrast that on my show with the young woman that was kidnapped and raped and murdered while jogging in Arkansas last weekend. I mean, there is true evil out there. And I do think our law enforcement should stop focusing on the war on drugs.


I think we should just in that completely. I don't care if people want to ingest drugs, let them.


It is we have a real what we're seeing in, quote unquote, criminal justice reform now is letting down victims of violent crime because we as Americans are being told we somehow deserve to be a victim or that our victimizers are, in fact, you know, because of their poverty, other reasons, they're justified in their right.


They're able to yeah, they're able to do whatever they want because, you know, we're the we're the aggressors where the as anyone that has any success at all, anyone that has ever worked for anything and has built something, if you have a nicer home than someone walking down the street chanting Black Lives Matter with their fists in the air, they want to take over your home because you're privileged.


You just got to let that is extreme. And so, I mean, there are people are chanting Black Lives Matter that I truly believe we do have a disparate although we have a larger amount in gross numbers of violence towards white male Americans by police, we have a disparate amount of violence towards when you look at per capita basis towards black males, people of color, by police, I mean there are things that need to be fixed. The war on drugs.


Everyone uses drugs at the same rate, like every race, every socioeconomic demographic, but it disparately impacts people of color and, you know, just cannibalizes the intellectual capital of America by locking people up in prison, doesn't it really doesn't.


It doesn't really affect people of color because people of color, if statistically the crime rate is much higher based upon just race, if you look at it statistically, well, it depends on the crime rate.


You do have per capita a larger amount of certain types of violent crime committed by men of color. Right. But when you also qualify for poverty and a great number of other variables, that kind of dissipates and there is a economic legacy to Jim Crow, there is an economic legacy to slavery, we can act like there's not. But there is. And, you know, there's I mean, there are things that we need to change. But the real problem in American policing is two very simple things that no one cares about and no one wants to hear.


Like if you listen to chess, a boat when the son of radicalized terrorists who is now the D.A. in San Francisco, true story. It's crazy. He really wants people to believe that if you're a middle class, you and you are victimized by robbery or burglary by people that are poor, you deserve it. And there shouldn't be a prosecution.


And that's insane. It's absolutely insane. You don't fix criminal justice reform by turning your back on victims. And most importantly, victimization is almost always racially and socioeconomically moggies. So when you stop protecting victims, you are actually allowing people of color to be more victimized and poor people to begin with. It's crazy.


Yeah, that that is that is exactly the point that I'm trying to make with not just upset one sixty eight, but this particular conversation we're having right now. If you eliminate law enforcement from these impoverished communities, these these people that have no way to protect themselves other than the government and the existing system of law and order that we have in this country, you are doing a disservice to the poorest, most impoverished people in this country.


I was a police officer in a overwhelmingly minority, overwhelmingly poor part of Harris County.


And I mean, I was a farmer. I was actually a phenomenal police officer. I believed in windows down policing. I knew almost everyone in my patrol area with a sexy voice as well. Like, yeah, yeah, I was younger.


I probably wasn't as deep and resonated. But I mean, I just really I have made a bunch of friendships that I still have today. And the thing is, most poor people are wonderful people who are trying to find an avenue out of poverty, whether they're immigrants or that American. For generations, and it doesn't matter what color they are, there are more poor per capita. There is a disparity with people of color versus what their growth numbers are.


More white people in poverty, tremendously larger numbers than any other category. And they also, if you narrow for impoverished white Americans, their crime rate mirrors the crime rates of other people of other demographics. Right.


So, I mean, the real thing is we need to protect poor people from victimization women. We also need to provide them a platform for success, like poor kids that go to, quote unquote rough schools. And it's seen as a bad thing to succeed at school. They suffer, right. And there's not. And when you limit discipline for virtue, signalling, opportunity, politics, reasoning, which the Obama administration did, the Barack Obama did a bunch of great things.


We also just like every president and a bunch of bad things. And some of the decision making made for four federal education rules really put young men and women of color that were in impoverished school districts in danger because they're victimizers were being punished. And that's the same thing with police departments. You have to punish, victimize. Now, if your house is broken into, if your car gets broken into, if something is stolen, the police just take a report and do nothing right.


But we spend so much law enforcement, energy on the war on drugs, so much on device crimes. And then and honestly, like I was the presiding judge for a city. Right. And I would constantly have the city council want to talk to me about the revenue generated by my court. And I had a job mayor that backed me. And I just you know, I'm not talking to you all about that. That's not my goal is to generate money.


My goal is to, you know, facilitate justice. But that is how so many, almost all cities and counties balance their budgets in America right now is by the regressive taxes citation. So you're incentivizing police officers to spend their days instead of fighting crimes to target people with Ticketek tickets and Ticketek Citation based revenue nonsense. And we've seen they target Hispanic people and black Americans more than white Americans. It's truth people that want to believe it, but they do.


Well, how do you fix it? Well, we're going to get into how to fix it. But at least right now we can all agree that we all want some legalized marijuana up in this bitch, please, yesterday. We're going to take a quick break. Really? Right. Come on. Yeah, we're going to take a quick break here. But in the meantime, here is a teacher with an open mind.


Hey, Mike, this is Sarah from Panama City, Florida. I just want to let you know, I just wanted to observe 168. And it was so informative that I'm going to be including it as part of my curriculum and my American class, where we are doing the justice system and the American justice system to super informative and a little scary, but fantastic.


Keep up the good work. Thanks. All right, we're back with Charles Adams from The Truth with Charles Adams on our Radio KPRC 950 a.m. and several other TV appearances that he can't talk about. Super secret, but all right, it's time to fix it. I mean, you and me right now to podcasters, pretty much one smarter than the other. Well, I mean, my mine's a radio show. No big deal. You make a lot more money doing it.


Like I still have the lawyer, but, you know, I'm on the actual radio, so I'm just kidding. Podcasting is the podcasting is the future. Like when people and you do hear radio guys try to be pompous about radio versus podcasting. And then I say, well, you know, every professional podcast right now makes far more money than all of you.


So what are you doing? Well, that is training how you want to talk about how we fix American.


We can argue about who's smarter. They're, you know, based on revenue.


You don't have to do anything except a podcast and you have a full staff working on the podcast. I am a partner in two law firms. I don't I can't even count how many. I own a consulting firm. I got to do all this crap just to keep up with you. And you basically play with dogs and sit around with your beautiful better half. I mean, we're to in and out and also have better luck in that. Yeah.


Yeah. You are far better looking, right. I mean, I could take a fist fight between the two of us. Would not last very long. I'm going to give myself that. You go. But you are you have one in there. You got to have something that you guys have got to cling to something. Right. All right. But yeah. So when we talk about American policing, so was on TV talking about either Rittenhouse or Blake a few times this week, and there was a Hispanic activist who kept saying, we just need to reform policing and stop the white patriarchy and just had all these buzzwords.


And I kept asking them, well, how do you think we should reform policing? Because he's one of those abolish and defund the police units, but they never have anything substantive to say, at least a lot of them.


And now when it's just coming, the white patriarchy start there and they're like, let's see how stupid you sound. It doesn't make any sense when you start going into these buzzwords from from certain parts. I guess they don't understand what they're saying. Right. And a lot of people on it's both the right and the left because the right has their whole thing, just a tide of buzzwords that are equally meaningless. And no one wants to have real conversations and no one wants to recognize that the extremists on both sides like soy.


Is that one of the words?


So I had a guy I had a guy called me a cock today. Yesterday, he told me that he supported anti pedophilia efforts by subscribing to Alex Jones's podcast, called that an anti pedophilia pro reptilian pedophilia. Yeah. Was like, you know, and I love you. One of those guys. It'll call you a cock on Instagram and Minds at being angry law if anybody wants to check it out. But then when you meet them, I love meeting those people in real life.


I'm like, hey, you know, remember what you were talking about this or that, and you're looming over them at seven feet. And I'm usually rather you with a crew of, like, very gangsterish looking guys to and so it's they never have anything to say.


Check out Charles's Instagram, by the way. He he's not playing around. I do have a funny Instagram. It is. It is. You know, it was my first social media despite being at Harvard Law School when they set up the Facebook at the college. And in my small, you know, I was like, that's stupid. It just went on with my life for 14 years before I ever reconsidered that I was stupid for not being on social media.


But, you know, all these people that you saw we just seen abolished police. What planet? Right. What planet do we live in where there aren't evil people out there that need consequence for their evil? Right. Thing is, we need to stop negative interactions with police, with good people. And you stop that by say the when you say the war on drugs people, the gold, the cartel and Mathinna, but it's almost overwhelmingly just Mughals.


We're just trying to get some money. They're not involved in violence and over I mean, almost all drug arrests are just people that want to get high. And if you take drugs and commit a crime, well, you should be held responsible. If you take drugs and ignore your children, you should be held responsible. I'm not saying you should be able to get away with crimes because. But why should we fill our prison with people that want to do a little cocaine?


I've never done cocaine because I'm scared that I'll like it. But why would it make me an evil person if I did and I still managed all my responsibilities? I'll tell you what it seems to me. If you just look at if you step back and you look at it objectively, it feels like what's happening is you have sort of lazy policing or lazy law enforcement. Right. Right. Because what would make more sense? What would solve the drug problem?


In America and the world, would it be to shut down the producers of these drugs completely, the hardcore ones like cocaine and crack and methamphetamines, and just prevent the production completely if that were possible? Let's just say in a perfect world, if you could shut down the production of those things instead of going after every single addict that fell into that trap. Same thing with all sorts of other things like that, all sorts of other criminal activities. Wouldn't it be wouldn't it make more sense to go after the guy that's producing the pedophile photographs and videos and child trafficking and sex trafficking and instead of everyone else that may be, you know, downloading an image out of the Internet?




See, I disagree there. I think where you're engaged in victimization of children, I think they all need to go to prison and in fact, under the prison because I don't think they can be fixed. But like, let's say, adult prostitution. Who are we to say a woman can't sell her vagina or a man can sell his dick? Why do we care? Why should we be involved in as long as they're not being forced to do it, you know, human trafficking, why do we care?


It's the same thing with drugs. You are. It's about living through our cops arrest people who just did a search. Way too many cars. You know, our founding fathers, we should be rolling over in their graves as we trample the Bill of Rights to facilitate the war on drugs for absolutely no damn reason. Right. And we should we should just get out of that business now, except like methamphetamine and fentanyl and all that. But if you legalize all these other drugs and people can just go get it at a store at a reasonable price, where almost all the money goes to the federal government for taxes, for treatment programs, have better schools and more opportunity for Americans, why would you go buy a pill that could maybe kill you like fentanyl when you can just go get a pill that's just going to make you feel loopy for a while at a regular store?


Why would you go buy meth when you could just go get Adderall or speed? Why would you go buy cocaine that had a bunch of, you know, rat poison in it when you just go get regular cocaine? And the sad thing is, you know, people want that. We have America has an appetite for drugs. I love to drink if they legalize and I don't break the law. You know, I was a policeman. I was a judge.


I just don't. But I went to Seattle with my son, had an externship with Amazon a couple of years ago for Christmas. And I got me one of those pins and I was smoking out of I got my wife some edibles. She ate them. She'd never done any drugs. And she looked at me and said, I can tolerate you so much better when I'm eating one of these chocolates and we got to Jamaica. I've got some friends from Jamaica.


Last time I was in Jamaica, we're sitting on the beach in the grill and a guy showed up with a garbage bag. And I'm not talking about a white kitchen bag. I'm talking about picking up leaves in the fall size bag of marijuana and just gave it to us.


Well, here, yeah. Is a friend of a friend of mine, this deejay, Junior, he just said. And, you know, and guess what?


We all had a magical time all week in Jamaica. And we need to we just need to get out of the business of telling people how to live their lives and refocus policing on catching people that are breaking into our cars, raping women, killing people, hurting people. That's all police should do. You know, you just make to misers.


You just made me rethink my argument because I was arguing for stopping the production of things. And then you brought up alcohol and I realized, oh, yeah, prohibition. That didn't really work, did it? Insane.


And you like to drink, right? I know. I like to drive. I know that when me and you go to dinner. I'm Obering. Right.


Because I'm fucked up. Oh yeah. We get out of that and dinner.


Is it any how is it any different. Right. In fact there's a police officer when I was a police officer, you know, drunks want to do they wanted to fight me, which was always fun because I was sober and I got these hands, you know, but people that are stoned, this is the interaction with someone that's stoned on marijuana as a police officer, knock on the door. They answer the door with a bong in their hand.


And I said, hey, man, you know, I'm going to just not see the bong. I don't care. Could you please turn your stereo down? It's bothering the neighbors. Yeah. Dude, man, I'm so sorry. Thanks for being cool. No problem. And then I never have to interact with that guy again. Drunks that are being violent or committing domestic violence all the time. But we're not talking about outlawing beer because we did that and it was stupid.


It's just like it's stupid to make marijuana illegal. And it's really only illegal to be a conspiracy guy because big pharm doesn't know how to monetize it, period. Right.


So you think it's just to get back to the subject here? You think it's basically the problem has to do with the amount of assets we have available as opposed to what's required from those assets. So if we just stopped prosecuting these drug convictions, we'd have a whole lot more policing to do in other aspects of a much more serious issues, much more serious crimes.


And we'd stop even even little crimes, even little crimes like theft that don't get prosecuted. But more importantly, cops, every time they pulled over a car with people of color, that would stop immediately treating them like suspects because of the possibility that he might have drugs. When cops don't give a damn about drugs unless you're driving under the influence, they're not searching every 16 or 17 year old black kids car. And we can pretend that doesn't happen to America.


But it does. And it's horrifying. And it creates this discord between police and people of color to blame for the war on drugs.


And I'm going to give you stop it. I'm going to give you one more chance. One more opportunity, let's put it that way, to change my mind about something that I think is causing a lot of this disparity, as you say, with white cops killing people of color and during traffic stops and whatnot, there's a lot of personal responsibility being emphasized to being placed on the law enforcement officials about what they can and cannot do, even when a suspect is reaching into his car after being ordered by multiple officers with their guns drawn to stop and get on the ground, but continues to do so anyway.


And there's a lot of criticism about what just happened in this particular case because of that. But there doesn't seem to be a lot of personal responsibility placed on anyone that's being pulled over. And one of the things that I think would solve a lot of these problems and would if you truly believe if you truly in your heart feel that black lives matter, then one of the most important things I think we can do as a society is inform and educate everyone that if you are pulled over, if you are in the process of being arrested, if there is four or five or one cop with his gun drawn ordering you to do something, you at that moment do not have the option to ignore his commands, ignore what they're saying, and do whatever the hell you want because that is how you die.


No, no, I will agree with a lot of that. In fact, I used to. Pretty regularly meet with kids at their parents request and talk to them of any color being socially awkward. It's not something to charge anything for and we'll talk to them about how to appropriately act when law enforcement you're engaging or interacting with law enforcement, particularly mainly in a traffic stop. And I actually had a lawyer in Texas compare that to me, suggests that was just like me telling women they shouldn't wear a short skirt to not get raped.


And of course, there's your mansplaining right right now. And I just want to help kids be OK, because a lot of times you're done. And I will tell you, the closest I ever came to shooting someone, it was was it was it last time I was on the air with you and it was not. I'm talking about with the back of the 90s when I was a cop, a convenience store got robbed and the a purple geo metro with a license plate was given as the people that were fleeing.


And it was three Hispanic males in a vehicle. I pull over blocks away on Avenue A, I remember this this purple Jhelum metro with the same three letters and numbers and the license plate. And I walk out Hub's It's Dark Road McGunn out and, you know, put their hands up monosodium and wait. I'm sorry.


Can you say that again. What, where do you want to start from the monos. Did you say models. Sorry model. Sorry I put your hands up monosodium.


OK come on man. I mean I, well I worked in an area, there was a lot of Spanish speakers but some talking to the driver and I see the glint of metal in the hand of the back seat passenger and it's at his waist and I turn on him and I swear to God I almost shot him and the idiot was just trying to put on a seatbelt. And another officer, Mike Powers, at that very moment stopped the same purple geo metro with the same three letters and numbers in the license plate going in the opposite direction with the real actual robbers in it.


These guys were completely innocent. And I almost killed a guy because he wasn't following my instruction because he was worried about getting a traffic ticket for not wearing a seatbelt.


Well, the fact that the word is a rheba instead of a rebate may have had something to do with that. He spoke English, dammit. I tried to cover my bases. All right. I could I could almost get through an entire traffic stop and Spanglish, you know, you don't have to lord that over me and don't just speak Castilian Spanish. Excuse me. Excuse me. I'll speak.


No, don't don't Cuban speak a very different Spanish than the spoken in Mexico. Am I wrong about that? I don't know, Charles.


I always love having you on. You are you are. I'm a big fan. Like I said here, that you're the best and always full of incredible practical life lessons and legal knowledge and a whole lifetime of it.


So we're always happy to have you love talking to you. Would love to be on your show again at some point.


I invited you three times and you've told me, no, let's not lie to the listeners. You are always welcome on my show. Always. I would rather just do a show every day with you because it'd be a lot easier if I could make my money without putting any effort into it so that now we have it all. We have a record. Thank you for having me on tonight, though. I love the show. You've got the best podcast other than my wife's Clewiston.


If you check it out, you've got the best true crime podcast in the world.


But thank you so much. Say hi to Kat for me and thank you for being on. And I will we'll have that steak dinner soon to help my treat.


We got to do it. You just let me know. In fact, a week ago, just meet me and your better half and my better half and you could stay home. I you don't have to be there, you know, whatever you want to be.


Brother, I'm sure you would like to talk to you later. Charles. Always a treat.


Take this. All right, well, that's it. We hope you like it if you didn't, you know what? We didn't have to do this. I stayed up. Right now I'm looking at the clock. It's one thirty eight in the morning. So you don't like it. He goes in the Crab Shack and stay safe. Hey, Mike, this is Andrea calling from Oregon, not Portland. So put me in the same category that I just wanted to call and tell you how much I love your show and watch or sorry, I've been listening to this article since the beginning and I love it.


But all my co-workers listen to it and my family and my friends and I look forward to all the networks right now is I'm working on all my projects.


I'm sitting here listening to all of them from the beginning. Again, the good work and keep those folks coming.


I love to thank my high school students. I'm calling from Washington State. I just want to say how much I love the podcast.


I just love listening to up to two one, six, eight about interrogations. And honestly, there was so much information in there that I didn't even know about police interrogation, and it was so eye opening. So thank you for sharing that, because I think it's important to know your rights and to know that you're going to be safe going into a situation where people might be promising to keep you safe.


But that's not always the case. So they don't get you guys to keep it up. I love the podcast. How are you, man? Good. I survived that that thing that came through, that whole horrible thing.


It was, you know, we actually were in the Pinnell for Harvey and it was like need to say we even had some water get on the roads. But it was neat to watch from up here. But this was boring. Like, I moved my fucking smoker and my fucking grill and from the balcony fucking and all the furniture people are paying nothing.


That's what it is. People are pissed that he moved shit, that they didn't need to move on and now they're going to move it back.


And the guy, the island that boarded shit up and I had a meteorologist telling me like midday yesterday, yeah, this is not going to be anything.


Don't worry about it. And my secretary's like left early on Tuesday and didn't work Wednesday and like. But no fucking people.


Yeah, we've monetized we monetize outrage and we monetize site and we always think will be monetized. Right. Yeah, right.


You know, the fucking worst storm in the fucking here. You're six hundred fifty miles across.


I think I killed one person, a 14 year old girl, which is sad, but one fucking person in Lake Charles, it's usually just like an elderly person that's out outside standing under a tree for no reason.


Yeah. The tree fell onto the girl's room. A freak accident. Yeah, that sucks. And thanks for bringing down the whole mood there, Charles.