Transcribe your podcast

This story contains adult content and language, listener discretion is advised. OK, tell me what we're doing. Oh, this is the mock cemetery and Cedarville Springs, and this is where most of Harriet's family is buried in the whole cemetery sold all Tomter Craig Scott is leading me through a 19th century graveyard in upstate New York.


We're searching for his relatives, a generation of Scots who died almost 150 years ago.


That was, I remember in Scotland, players right over there. You might be the big one there in the middle. It's below freezing and really windy. So I'm trying to carefully climb this hill that's covered with thick snow. This definitely isn't the best time of year to do this. There are almost 30 Scots buried here, most of them actually lived a pretty long time, at least by 1800 standards.


Help some of the kids on the son, so you see Harriet, who else see? Jean. William.


James. James. And then Effron from help. I can barely read four of the names, but they are the reason why we're here. They were all murdered in 1845 by a serial killer. This season is about them, the story of the Scots, they obviously were a very tight knit family and it was devastating to lose any of them. But it's also about the man who spread hatred and death like a contagion through their family. He's the most intelligent, known killer in America.


And his case left 19th century neuroscientists with a really controversial question, what if he and other killers weren't actually to blame for their crimes? What if their brains made them do it? They wanted the message that, you know, this was not these people's fault, that they had taken off and killed somebody, you know, they were suffering from a disease of the brain. But there's something even deeper here.


This killer was complex because he was a genius and he could actually offer something to society.


He was outside the mainstream of the 19th century. He clearly did not know a lot and his brain might just save his life. But he was absolutely horrible.


I don't think he ever sees himself as a villain.


There's no remorse. How would you describe him? Serial killer.


Ruthless, genius, evil. I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a true crime historian and author of the new book American Sherlock, along with my first book, Death in the Air, I write stories about history and murder, and this is tenfold more wicked. Each season is a new case with new families at the center of it.


I sought out the facts from the fables and family history, and I try to give them some kind of closure, even if it does come more than a century later.


This is our first season. A horrifying, true crime tale about America's own Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. This is dried in a village in upstate New York near Ithaca. The first settler arrived here in 1797 and it was eventually named after English poet John Dryden. The small country village they founded was quirky. Six Mile Creek was actually 20 miles long, but the people who lived there were proud of their heritage after the Revolutionary War. The town became part of the military tract program.


It was a government scheme that gifted each New York soldier hundreds of acres of land, a type of payment for participating in the war. The War of 1812 drafted even more soldiers, so more veterans came, and some of its most notable early villagers were the Scots. They were a respected family that was really well-known for their contributions to the village, but they were also known for the string of horrific murders in their family.


Sorry I'm late, you can imagine this, I was no where I'm from. I'm a journalism professor at the University of Texas in Austin, and now I've never really driven in the snow. It took me about an hour just to drive 13 miles from Ithaca.


OK, I'll call you Craig Scott and I drive the back roads of Dryden, winding past churches and fields to Brookfield Farm. This has been in his family for almost 200 years. Another Scott, Kathy Chadwick, lives here with her son and her dog, Hannah.


Oh, Hannah. Dylan. Good morning. I wander around for a while also.


Hannah, you know, Craig is a retired local businessman and politician who has lived off of Scutt Road for decades. The local cemeteries are filled with his ancestors. The Scutt name rings like royalty and Dryden, at least to me. He and Kathy have hundreds of relatives in the county, but they've never actually met most of them. What is it like to come from such a large family? I have two cousins and you have a vast family here. We always are running into people that we didn't know we were.


There were part of a tree somewhere. I least I find that. Yeah, I went to the picnic a couple of years ago and. Oh, my word. Where did all these cuts come from? So it was a little surprising to me that the family was so extensive. The Scotts arrived in America in the early 60s. Hundreds from Amsterdam, they owned lumber mills, clothing mills and thousands of acres of farmland. They felt blessed to be a part of such a close community.


Gerald Smith is a historian in nearby Broome County and an expert on small town life in the eighteen hundreds.


Everybody knows everybody else. Everybody would go over and help the neighboring farmer or two or three farms down if there was a problem. The barn burned down. There's a barn raising.


The family's patriarch in 1842 was John Scutt. He was a 55 year old decorated veteran in the War of 1812.


John owned this house, which looks really small from the outside, but it's two stories with four bedrooms and a large basement, a pretty impressive eighteen forties house that has stayed in the Scutt family for generations as well.


With original slate, Stone sits just feet from the house. A murder of crows lives in a massive willow tree nearby.


I can remember as a child coming out here to visit, it's not a bad thing to hang on a little bit to the past.


John Scott was Kathy Chadwicks great, great, great grandfather. He became a well-known school teacher in Dryden, a leader in the village. He was highly intellectual and very hardworking and a little strict.


Will you tell me about the family values? Well, perseverance, stubborn. Right up there on top of the list, my grandfather used to say a man's only as good as his word if you give somebody your word. Make sure you keep it. He always was stressing that. Yeah. And that was something that I did live by as well in commitment to each other.


You know, Henry Scott was John and Hanna's second eldest child. Henry was trusting his mother and father, had raised their five girls and seven boys to always welcome the wandering men who stumbled on to their farm because the Scotts were really known for inviting people in their home, was always open to anybody that needed a place to stay.


Or PASSERS-BY, you know, could come in and spend the night or get a meal that they were just that kind of people. And so that leads you to be pretty trusting. Yes, you have to be to do that.


And Henry Scott had become used to meeting laborers searching for work along the canal. The 27 year old worked on a packet, a small, shallow vessel that carried riders between stops along the waterway. Passengers stepped on and off along the route between Albany, on the Hudson River and Buffalo at Lake Erie. Local reporter David Rinn has studied the region's history extensively.


So in that day and age with the Erie Canal, then the boats and the traffic, Cayuga was was quite busy. So there were a lot of strangers coming and going.


When Henry Scott docked briefly in Syracuse that may have 1842, a man strolled down the path, caught his eye and then soon gripped his hand. He seemed about Henry's age, early 20s, with dark, gleaming eyes and a quick smile. He seemed cheerful. Henry gave him a silent evaluation. The man's name was Edward Ruoff.


People are attracted to people who are intelligent. You know, it was a big brawny guy. His personality was charming when he was charming. The man wasn't particularly tall, just under five foot nine, but he was solid with broad shoulders and a compact body. The model for a canal laborer, Henry noticed that he didn't smell like alcohol. He also seemed well groomed, not at all disheveled. Like the other workers, Edward promised he would be reliable.


He said he needed a job on the canal just for a bit. He had been a clerk at a hardware store, but now he was out of work. He hoped to begin a teaching career in a country village. Soon, he loved books on history and philosophy. He knew many different languages. Edward assured Henry that his work ethic would help him educate many young students. He had noble intentions, he said.


Edward proved to be a godsend for Henry. When they approached the towpath, Edward would hop out and wade through the muddy water to guide the boat and its passengers. The men became good friends. Edward was so incredibly nice. Personality was everything. I think he really wooed them.


And when it came time for Henry to return to his family's home, the boatman asked his assistant to come along. They set off on horseback together, both looking forward to their new friendship.


But soon, both men would recall that chance encounter on the passenger boat with bitterness, regret and sorrow, Henry Scott didn't know it yet, but he was traveling through the countryside with a devil. But for now, the pair rode happily together toward Driton, no one in that village could know how much hell one man could bring along with him. When Edward Rudolph arrived at Brookfield Farm in May of 1842, John and Hannah Schutte welcomed him into their home.


He was hardworking, friendly, and he seemed committed to starting a teaching career. Edward happily chopped wood in a barn, fed the horses and did other odd jobs in exchange for room and board. He even played with the kids.


The couple had three children under the age of 10.


John watched to the 23 year old read late into the night by his oil lamp. Edward was clearly bright and very ambitious. What are the things that are fascinating about him as a person, his mastery of language? He he certainly wrote beautifully.


He was well versed in Latin, Greek, French and German, among other disciplines. He could recall the Latin names for all the flora and fauna in the county. His penmanship was gorgeous. John Scott was an incredibly respected teacher, so he decided to help. He asked a neighbor if Edward could teach some classes at the man's house. Not an uncommon practice in rural communities in the 1930s. Soon, local families began sending their students to Edwards select school.


What do you think the family thought of him? Well, he was very intelligent, so they were probably impressed by that. These families knew nothing about him. He just seemed so sincere. David Redden says that people in the countryside had blind faith in just about everybody.


I mean, it seems gullible to me. People fall for the snake oil salesmen.


They actually enjoy the snake oil salesmen. Well, actually, they didn't have blind faith in everyone. John Scott treated Edward politely, but with some reservation. He did not trust immigrants. And Edward said he was German historian H.W. Brands says that John's concern was typical for someone in a small village in the 19th century.


It's been a. Theme of American history to feel as though whoever the latest immigrants are, they represent a threat to the American way of life. And so when Germans started arriving in large numbers in the 18th century, even pretty open minded people like Benjamin Franklin thought that they're just not assimilating. They're not going to make good Americans. But Edward Roloff seemed to want to assimilate. He wore clothes from the area to look like other villagers. He didn't speak German, only English.


He hid his accent. Gerald Smith says that villagers accepted Edward because he wanted to be an American to.


We're strangers embraced if they're speaking English without an accent, if they're going to a Protestant church, if you're white and if you're male, you assimilate essentially. Yes. In the 1980s, America's landscape was changing, but it was still mostly rural and academics were not a priority. Most students in the countryside only completed eighth grade before they began working full time to help support their families.


But the cuts strongly believed in educating their children, including the girls.


So they enrolled their two eldest daughters in Edwards classes. John Scott hoped the young teacher would become a trusted mentor. He was so much more intelligent than the other villagers, everyone in and seemed to trust him. So John Scott hit his suspicions for now, what a dreadful mistake.


16 year old Harriet was a beauty, tall, slender, with long, thick, light brown hair, pale skin and hazel eyes. She was studious, too serious about her schoolwork. She knew that not all girls in the countryside were given an opportunity to be educated. But Craig Scott says Harriet seems like an innocent 16 year old.


She was a very bright young lady in her own right, attractive. I think she may have been some kind of naive about men.


Harriet was devoted to her family, especially her parents. Edward smiled at her as he glanced over her work lying on her school desk. He piled wood in the small stove during the winter storms, determined to keep her warm almost from the beginning. He complimented her looks. She grinned and flirted back. By the fall of 1843, a year later, it was clear that Harriet and Edward were determined to be married, Edwards career appeared to be thriving. He was still teaching and writing, but he was also apprenticing with a botanical doctor in Ithaca.


He was learning how to treat patients with herbs and roots.


Yet the Scots still knew little about the girls suitor, and Edwards growing status wasn't a comfort at all to Harry's older brother, Efram, or the rest of the family. Edwards seemed so unstable at times when he was calm, his voice was mellow, even a little indifferent as he described his love of academia. He was lively and animated, but when he was upset, his tone became shrill and harsh, and he liked to play mean tricks on the boys in his school house.


It's really kind of an amazing it's almost as if the three faces of Eve, he had more than one clear personality. You just didn't want to be around him when he was unpleasant.


If Harriet became too flirty with another man, Edward might scowl at the girl, then quickly turn cold. And when Harriet finally apologized, he would flash a wolfish half grin to show he was pleased that she had relented.


He seems like what you would call an incredible narcissist. It's all about him. The universe is around him.


That was Michael Weiss, a linguistics professor at Cornell University.


He studied Edward's story for quite a while. I'll explain more about that later. By December of 1843, all of the men and Harriet's family were frustrated. The wedding day was almost here. Harriet had eight brothers and none of them liked Edward.


The brothers approached Harriet delicately. There's something not quite right about him.


They pleaded to her, but she absolutely refused to abandon her fiancee. And she was furious at her brothers for trying to turn her against him. Efram Scott was exasperated and he did the only thing he could, he demanded character references from Edward's past life, people who might be able to explain his curious personality positive testimonials might provide some comfort to an increasingly alarmed family. Edward was insulted and he was outraged at the notion that his professional reputation wasn't enough to gain passage into this family.


It's just that obviously he held a vendetta. Even if he decided he didn't like you, Edward would later complain to a friend. They were an ignorant, ordinary sort of family. He said they were always bickering and back biting each other, such as is always the case in large families of country people. I was not used to such tattling and telltale deceit. He vigorously and nearly violently refused Ephram's request.


He couldn't offer any personal references to comfort them, not even one. He didn't have any close friends. Edward Roloff would only ever reveal things about his life to just one person. Years later, he secretly confided in a small town journalist named Hamilton Freeman. Most people called him how their relationship would become very important later on. But for now, him served as his sounding board. Edward would later tell him about his engagement to Harriet.


He said some of the family tried to kick up a hell of a row about it, and that made me angry with the whole concern.


And I have never forgotten their taunts and insults. If the Scots had only understood who Edward Roloff really was, they certainly would have banished him from Harriet's life and then forced him out of that small village. Well, the Scots, I think, were very community minded all the way around. He'd been in trouble even at a younger age up there.


So he certainly didn't have too many values, moral values. At least they weren't expressed in his actions. Beautiful snow blanketed the main house on Scutt Farm, the massive maple trees sitting near it was bare of its customary orange leaves, hemlock lay under the snow. This was winter in upstate New York. It might have seemed like an odd time of year to host a wedding, but perhaps the season was appropriate considering the chill felt inside the farmhouse that day.


It was New Year's Eve, 1843. No one seemed happy for the wedding ceremony, and Edwards sensed it. John Scott told his sons that Harriet was lost. Now he said he washed his hands of the crime if she chose to marry that foreigner.


Harriet's family disgusted Edward. He cringed when the Scotts joked about how he met Henry that day on the canal. They thought they could make a tool, a sort of servant out of me because I was poor and they picked me up at the canal. His desperation to keep Harriet kept him quiet for now.


But even days before the wedding, his relationship with the entire Scott family was acrimonious. He later complained to him. They called me a pauper and made fun of my awkward manners. I knew I was better than they and that my family was far superior. Craig Scott says he's not surprised by any of those comments.


He was cocky, was overbearing. He talked down to the family at times, you know, because he thought he was so much more intelligent than any of them. Nevertheless, Edward Rudolph's marriage to Harriet Scutt took place in a beautiful winter ceremony on her family's farm. The flames of candles stuttered. The cast iron wood stove crackled, warming the house. Her 11 siblings stood around Harriet. Edward looked around the room. None of his family was there. He never bothered to tell his two younger brothers and the most important woman in his life.


His mother had died the same month he had arrived in Dryden, which was a shame because his 17 year old bride looked so striking that day.


Edward would later admit to him that the marriage wasn't beginning with a strong foundation. There never was much of any courtship or love about it. We rather slid into it.


Edward admired Harriet in her white silk dress. He noticed someone else admiring her to her cousin, Dr. Henry Bull watched the ceremony, Edward grumbled as the physicians strutted around the property, smiling and chatting. He seemed too friendly with the Scutt women. He always insisted on kissing each one of them on the cheek, and he liked to visit with them every week.


Dr. Bull apparently was very likable. Everybody liked him and apparently he and Harriet were very close as cousins.


Edward paced around the kitchen after his ceremony and then stopped and stared. He watched Harriet receive a kiss from Dr. Bull as they stood together in the pantry. She was still in her wedding dress. Edwards scoffed at the notion that the small pack was virtuous, this was different, Dr. Bull was handsome, wealthy and single, quite a threat to a new husband during an era when wooing cousins was common. But Craig Scott believes it really was an innocent kiss.


Harriet tried to reassure him that that just wasn't happening. And I think some of the rest of her family even said to him she wouldn't do that. It was jealousy because he was a threat. Yeah, he was definitely a he's he perceived him as a threat to his marriage and to his life. Edward quietly walked away, never saying a word. He was very angry, said a friend. He said he would never take her anywhere again. I imagine that my wife liked him better than she did me, Edwards said.


I was wild. All sorts of ideas and plans passed through my head. After a few days, matters grew worse.


The day had already been difficult for him. Right after the ceremony, the minister leaned over and kissed Harriet. Edward was furious.


The next day, Harriet's brother William would marry his fiancee, Amelia, and the same minister would kiss her to Edward later turned to a friend and mumbled that if he were a woman, he would murder the minister for being disrespectful.


Those women have ignored their vows, he hissed. Privately, Edward berated his new bride and hit her several times over the next few weeks. Harriet was inconsolable. William Scott's wife, Amelia, once found her sobbing alone in a room she didn't eat for days. The family worried the girl might have made a grave mistake, but 19th century rules dictated that wives should obey their husbands and in-laws shouldn't get involved. Edward was desperate to keep her under control. Craig Scott says that at this point, his relatives were really losing patience.


He was jealous of Dr. Bull. Several witness times when he struck her. I think that was kind of the last straw for the family.


Days after his wedding, Edward continued to fume, unsure of what to do. He hoped that suave Dr. Bull would stop his visits. And of course, he didn't. When Dr. Bull would arrive and begin his greetings, Edward would excuse himself and quietly stew. His ego was already pretty delicate, and now it was scarred and soon someone would die.


Within one week of their marriage, Edward packed up their meager belongings and moved his wife away from her family, Harriet and Edward began a new life in Lansing about 10 miles away.


He bought a large old store and converted it into a home. Soon, he was enjoying professional success. He was practicing botanical medicine with Dr. Stone in nearby Ithaca. He was learning the age-Old method of treating diseases with herbs and other organic medicines, medical treatment in 19th century America was a battleground between traditional physicians who were formally educated and botanical doctors who were largely taught through apprenticeships. Edward passionately defended herbal medicine during really nasty debates with Dr. Bull.


The men had no professional respect for each other, of course, but privately Edward feared that the botanical concoctions were useless and Dr Stone was a quack. And now so was he a damned fraud. I was ashamed of myself, he told Hamilton Freeman. I only undertook it as a flyer until I could get into something else that was more profitable and legitimate. But Edward's reputation as a physician was exceptional. He was gaining prominence as a scholar and a healer who spoke a variety of languages.


An Edwards character, according to townspeople, was beyond reproach. But despite his booming medical practice, Edward felt really isolated in the countryside. He yearned for an academic life in a large city where he could find intellectual debates and stimulating collaborations.


He was a fraud as a physician and a monster at home. Edwards rage poisoned his home wife, Harriet would argue with him, usually over visiting her family.


He would dramatically fling open a suitcase, her old clothes inside, slam it shut and stomp out the door, threatening to leave her. A disgraced woman, he ripped her beautiful silk wedding dress and frantically watered it into a ball. He was afraid she was going to use it to marry Dr. Bull.


But throughout all of this madness. Harriet denied at all. You know, she was young and he was somewhat older, a lot more experienced. You're married and you make the best of it and you do it. At 17, Harriet was barely an adult, yet she worked constantly to please her husband, typical for a 19th century bride.


I think she really wanted to make her marriage work. You know, there's times when she could have said I'm through and her brothers were somewhere around and they would have taken her somewhere. But it was always, oh, it's my fault. I'm sorry. You know, when anybody caught it, she was always apologizing. It's my fault that he hit me or he didn't hit me that hard.


Harriet's large, honest family now despised Edward Rohloff, and they found good reasons.


During a visit to the Scotts farm, one of Harriet's older brothers heard her crying softly in a bedroom. When he threw open the door, Edward turned and glared at him in silence. Tears ran down Harriet's face. He witnessed him being abusive and he told Roulettes, leave with us, we'll look after her and make sure that enraged him even more. They were religious people and they had a lot of good morals. And striking a woman was not a good thing in their view.


Efram Scutt snapped at his brother in law demanding that he treat Harriet properly or just leave her with the family. Pick one. Edward quietly agreed to temper himself, but privately he blamed the Scotts. And that summer, his animosity toward them only deepened. The horseback trip from Dryden to Ithaca was usually lovely, 10 miles of fields filled with wheat and cotton, spotted with rolling hills and patches of forest. It was a time for the writers to reflect on their journey, almost like a meditation.


Unfortunately for William Scott, that was not the sort of journey he would enjoy when his hysterical brother in law joined him on horseback in July of 1844, Harriet's weary older brother half listened as Edward Wolff obsessed for hours. He complained about enduring six months of Dr. Bowles inappropriate flirtations with his wife.


William later remembered the conversation. He thought Dr. Bill and his wife had had intercourse together and he thought he should leave her.


Edward now despised Dr. Bull. He said he had spotted Harriet with her cousin at a mill near Brookfield Farm and it seemed like they might kiss again.


He told her friend, Don't you see her life is in my hands. William Scott patiently listened to Edwards complaints.


He frantically pleaded for the family to stop Dr. Bolls visits right now, but William refused and he offered no sympathy. Edward was furious at William's disloyalty. How could William defend Dr. Bull and abandon his own brother in law? He was a gifted teacher who had dazzled college professors with his understanding of languages. But now he couldn't calm his own anxiety. Edward obsessed over the idea of killing. He was going to kill someone. Many people, actually, he's confusing to me.


And he was the boogey man in upstate New York.


He's not confusing to me. He's a psychopath. Harriet Scott and her sister Jane, were always close. They were just two years apart and both were Edwards students when he taught at the Dryden's schoolhouse a few years earlier. He really isn't that unpleasant, Jane argued to her family. He's a good provider, but her view of her brother in law would quickly darken less than six months after the couple was married. Edward listened as Jane and her sister chatted in their small kitchen in Lansing.


Harriet lifted a heavy 20 pound marble pedestal and poured some peppercorns into a large stone water. Jane Scott described what happened next. She didn't pound it fine enough to suit him.


She said he proposed to do it for her. Edward was determined to control virtually every aspect of his wife's life. He lunged toward the pistol, but Harry pushed back, insisting she could finish the job. She was really growing tired of his demands.


Frustrated, Edwards snatched the heavy pistol and flung it against her face. Jane flinched.


It knocked her back several steps, said Harriet's sister. Edward had hit her so hard that it left a contusion on her forehead. Jane stood in silence as he began to apologize over and over again. I'm sorry, he pleaded with her. You did it on purpose. Harriet snapped. She refused to look at him. They're unstable. Marriage was slipping into open hostility. And now Edward realized how delicate his wife really was and how easy it might be to overpower her.


The summer after their marriage, the roof stayed at a boarding house over a tailor shop in Ithaka, Harriet's 11 year old sister Mary was visiting and her uncle William was supposed to pick her up before it became dark. But Harriet's brother was running late and Edward was furious. He wanted young Mary to leave now. The scouts were insensitive, always taking advantage of him. He thought. Edward demanded Mary walk home to Dryden, about 10 miles away, all by herself.


He was so angry and he started shoving Mary toward the stairs. He seemed cruel. Harriet refused to let her walk home alone. Edward stared at his wife. He demanded Harriet follow him to the upstairs bedroom on the top floor. They argued, and the landlady in the parlor heard scuffling. Harriet was screaming, Come up quick. Edward is going to make me take poison and then take it himself. Edward and Harriet were clenched together, wrestling over a vial with a strange powder inside.


He yelled at her by living God. This poison will kill both of us in five minutes and that would put an end to our troubles.


She cried out, Oh, Edward, I'm as innocent as an unborn child. He opened his hand and smacked her hard in the face, knocked her over. Edward looked down at her and hissed. God damn you, you know better than to come near me when I am as angry as I am now. He unleashed a stream of obscenities sure to offend anyone, especially a naive young country girl. The landlady glared at Edward and ordered him to leave.


He stared down at Harriet and sneered. He told her that if she left him, he would kill her the way a local shoemaker had murdered his wife just a few years before. In 1832, a man named Guy Clark nearly knocked out his wife's eye during a fight and when she convinced deputies and Ithica to arrest him, he vowed, I'll kill you for this.


And after serving just 10 days, that's what he did.


He hacked her to death with an axe. Edward actually called Clark a gentleman. He told Harriott he would chop her as fine as mincemeat.


It was such a frightening declaration, but unfortunately, Harriet didn't seem to take it seriously. She looked at him sweetly, Edwards seemed exhausted. He flopped down on his knees with his forehead resting on the bed, Harriet sat near him and put her hand gently on his hair. She whispered, You're mine forever, dear Edward, whether you live with me or not. Edward looked up at her, then slowly walked downstairs and ordered a horse and carriage. He escorted Harriet and Mary back to the Scotts farm.


Craig Scott doesn't believe his family knew just how much Edward Rudolph despised them.


I think that must have been kind of the straw that broke the camel's back with him. I'm going to show her you can't do that. By then. He had built up this apparent hatred for the whole family and he did not want her go back to them and leave him.


Hours later, Edward returned to the boarding house in Ithaca and he was enraged. William Scott had ordered him to leave Brookfield Farm. He was no longer welcome. And then Edward told the landlady something horrifying. He told her that he wanted to destroy the whole family and then be hung like an honest man by Clarke. Edward resented the entire clan, but he was especially disgusted with the eldest brother. He hated William as much as he did his own wife and Dr.


Bill. And soon at least one of them would die. This season on tenfold more wicked, there's a story about him taking her away and her turning around and waving, and that's the last memory like her mother and some of them had of her, sort of awoke the area, that evil can be anywhere at any time.


The charisma that man had, he had everybody for a long time, sort of like a Ted Bundy.


If you love historical true crime, be sure to order my book, American Sherlock. It's about a real life Sherlock Holmes who solved some of the most gruesome murders in the 1920s. This has been an exactly right and ten fold more media production producers Jason Whaling and Laura Sobell, sound designer. Eric Friend, composer Curtis Heath artwork. Nick Todger, executive producers, Georgia Howard Stark, Karen Kilgariff and Danielle Cramer follow us on Instagram and Facebook at tenfold more wicked and on Twitter at tenfold more.


If you're an advertiser interested in advertising on our show, go to Mirel Dotcom ads and if you know of a historical crime that could use some attention. Email us at info at tenfold more wicked dotcom. So please listen, subscribe leave us a review on Apple podcast, Ditcher or wherever you get your podcasts.