Transcribe your podcast

Welcome back to another lovely episode of The Bold and the Beautiful. Welcome, everyone, welcome. Welcome in. How you having a lovely night? How you been doing? That was two different things that was clapping and sad noise.


Oh, I love that. That could be a bittersweet energy to start by. And we have a very natural guest for us, one of our favorite people, close friend, one of our favorite people in the world, also someone with whom we've had the pleasure of working, who also happens to be, in my humble estimation, the one of the best living photographers on the planet Earth. Yeah. Wow. Thanks. I'm talking about David last and live.


This guy. We have the wonderful France. So Sony at Sony Cyberonics Zone Ordure Hungarian. It's Chongyi. Oh yeah. I see. Is a so you're so it's Hungarian is the Czech in Hungary. Czech in Hungarian. Have you been to Czech Republic. No, I've been a lot of places but I haven't been there. I hear that it's a beautiful place but very sadly rundown. It's not like a touristy place that's been up ceps. It's like I went there for the first time earlier this year and right before Luxon.


It is. It's beautiful. The Prague Arregui. Yeah, but it was small. Yeah. It's where you can walk. You can walk from one side to the other and you hear that you sit with small, tiny, unimportant, insignificant. Now I feel like photographers have this sort of willing identity crisis because it's one of those things where people have probably seen your work, but they see the subject and they don't see you. So what would people know you from besides welcome to all production.


Gosh, at the that like everything are like totally unsung. One hundred percent. Yeah. I like Albert like a lot of my favorite people. Early aquafers. Yeah. And it's this meditating thing where they just shoot the picture and let the picture be in slip away into the shadows. Yeah. Yeah I like doing that. But what was the question. I'm sorry. How are people. You've shot both of us. Well we didn't know you from well.


Oh God that's a that's a lengthy question. I don't. Well I shoot Devante Cirlot. I'm lucky to shoot her. I, I like shooting drag queens a lot. I think I've been in Los Angeles for about eight years. And the first person well, the first person I ever reached out to when I moved here was Devin Green, drag queen drag queens. Yeah. Because I saw her, you know, welcome to my Virgin video, iconic.


And I said I have to know her. And the first real drag queen that I shot was certain maharajah. Oh, my God. With the paper in the picture is so cool. Thank you for that. Yeah, I was super broke and I was I was kind of going through like I just happened super broke, but a whole box of Swarovski crystals. So I was like, what can I do with like, um, crystals? And and he was so lovely.


I just reached out to him and said, I'm a big nobody. I just moved here and can I shoot your portrait? And and not only can I shoot your portrait, but like, let's do this, like, finger mustaches tomorrow. And he was like, great, what time do you want me to come over? So that kind of, you know, kind of everyday, at least for me, every shoot kind of leads to the next shoot and snowballs.


But yeah. So that's that's what I have. Oh yeah. I have a million questions, but I don't want to forget to ask the how do you I don't know how to how to. Such a dumb question, but like how did you come up with your how did your signature look develop. Because you have a style that is a very identifiable thanks. I don't know quite how to describe it though and not easily copied. Not right. Thank you.


It's it's very, very, very rare, I think, to find somebody working in art, whether whatever medium it is to be like, oh, that's this person. You know, you have a style that's not it's not derivative. It's not it doesn't like it's unique. Thanks, but. Well, I did that happen. I, I studied illustration actually. I went to school in San Francisco and illustration was my major for about three years and it just was kind of a family friend of mine said, hey, why don't you all the elements that you love, lighting and fashion, makeup and making vignettes exist in photography.


Why don't you try that? And I was just I was kind of like a fluke. And so I was literally on my councillor's hated me. I just thought for three years I was like, well, I'm changing my major. And I just got into film photography, but I never even I didn't even really do that well in school because even in film photography I was doing I really had no interest in photography. Like I was layering like three negatives and I was bleaching things.


And like it really was about illustration for me and actually at my. My Photoshop professor failed me after two years of Photoshop who said I had an unrealistic or unrealistic view of the program or something that I would I would never like be able to use it in a realistic you know, my final project was like all these bald aliens and whatever. Yeah. So, yeah, I you know, I. Hello, I'm still photography. Yeah. Yeah, I'm good.


Yeah. They were so good. So I, I don't I think any artist I don't deem to like what can I do that's different. I'm just making what I know how to do which is I mean I guess that is, that's like the hallmark of any true unique individual is that you just do you just do your thing and then it is what it is. Yeah, but I don't look to photographers really. I mean, David LaChapelle is a big one in school that I knew of.


Obviously perejil to amazing French photographers. But like, I didn't really know photographers, but like, you know, Mark Davis or Air-to-air, like these great illustrators, I was like, I want my photography to look like that. So thanks for the compliment. It's amazing. It's really like it has almost a, um. Like, it's everything sort of a still from a film in a way, it's very cinematic. Yeah, yeah. There's and I like an environment like a world.


Yeah, it's a universe. Just like you look at your photographs and you kind of get the sense that there is like a Frons universe. It's like Wizard of Oz adjacent in a way, don't you think? And it's very it's very it's otherworldly, but it's also very flattering. Like when we were so we I was so excited to with the Red Scare, so surprised it scares you, which was so, so, so, so, so much fun.


But the thing is, as a drag queen and where I mean, I've been getting photographed to drag for about ten years now or more, and it just as recently as drag on a couple of years ago, they'll get the girls state. Sometimes what will happen is a superstar, quote unquote, photographer will come into the drag rolls and be like, I want to, you know, their interest is piqued and they shoot us. But what they're interested in is texture.


Oh, they want reality is they want they want the star. Yeah. I mean, they want bride and bride reality. The crispy crispy critter. We're of course, listen, fuck them. Whatever it was New York mag, it was two years ago and it was the worst pictures any of us had ever seen in our lives. And I hope everybody involved dies. And I think that's very scary. I was when they took my picture, I was the freshest.


I had just gotten there. I was like fifteen minutes after I arrived and I looked a fucking mess because it was it was like a it was just everything you could see. It was like, you know, there's mirrors that are like five times magnification. Yeah. Yeah. It was the way the way you light to the the unretouched. You see it on the your monitor. And I'm like, this is a great picture if that's the wrong.


Oh my God. Thanks so much. And but so the whole point is with you, I knew 100 percent. I was like, no matter what this motherfucker does, it's going to look fantastic. And that's very rare to have like to have that kind of like trust in a person, because like I said, you never know. It's that even it's sometimes it can go the other way where it's like the photo is so badly airbrushed, where it literally looks like you're on a t shirt in Florida.


Do you know what I mean? Like the person was failed in Photoshop class. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I think and I maybe I can speak for a lot of photographers, but I kind of feel this sounds really philosophical. But whenever I shoot someone, I'm kind of treating it like a self portrait. I'm shooting people the way I would want to be photographed myself. And I don't know if this kind of borders. I mean, we have all these terms.


This is a photographer. An artist is an artist, a photographer. Are they the same things? Sometimes I think obviously we're living in a world that photography is so disposable, it's just in and out where because maybe I just have a different outlook. My goal is always like, what would I hang this picture in my living room? And if I wouldn't, then I don't really have any interest in it. So, you know, I've yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense.


Yeah, you should. I think it's OK to make something and love it. And I know you're supposed to be like whatever I did it, I whatever. I'm glad you like, like I did a thing. You should love what you make. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I agree. And that doesn't mean it has to take forever. I used to be in that kind of mindset where I was like this has to like really like I have to bleed for this to mean something.


So I would spend months making these huge sets and like just like it was my whole life. But I think maybe coming to L.A., I've learned to like, you can make something brilliant, you know, in an afternoon and and granted that, you know, just like I read scarcity, thank you for saying that. That was like that was so much fun. It was flaks. It was fun. Do you always enjoy yourself when you're in the process of shooting or working on something, or can it be a slog?


Yeah, I this also sounds really primadonna, but I get really exhausted from shoot so I don't know if you like your you know, I feinting, I just kept falling. I think God for that. We had three challenges that you place that you find in your life. So thank you. I also by the way this is so weird. I have no hair on my knees and people are sick of hearing your knees. But it's because I know just a little circle you're on your knees so much as a photographer, at least for me.


I know that insert pun in here, but it's exhausting. You know, you have early call times. Oh, yeah. Gorgeous. You don't you know, I'm not like using the bathroom all day. You're barely drinking water. You're just like so in the zone that after twelve hours of that you when reality snaps back, I'm just stuck on such a high when I shoot that I forget to take care of myself. So that's yeah. That's, that's the thing that's I mean I feel like that's just a thing in general.


Yeah. I don't, I enjoyed myself that day a great deal. But it's, it's like the way I was told something very flattering. I was to actually buy multiple people on set. They said, oh, Kourtney would never do this for anyone else. The fact that I was like, no, we need more, we need a couple more hours. Let's do this, this. And you keep showing up. And you were like there.


I felt very flattered because I love when you snatch the pads off and from. Can you go put your house back? You grabbed me at the shoulder like, don't, don't. I'm not going to do that again. Our whole career is I'm like her secretary people. What about you guys doing this? I go, she's never going to do what you don't. But you actually said you didn't. You didn't. But you came back and we made you a lovely mumu and yes, I did.


And we had a fabulous little coda to the day it was you did a whole bunch. We did the video at the end of the day. It was fantastic. Yeah. But I will say that was remarkable because that place had no AC and there was I was wearing a latex vest or a rubber vest and I so there's like moments where I like I almost I can see that on the horizon snapping. I don't think I would never have snapped.


Sometimes I require people to and I always tell this to people like I will keep going until I get the shot. And if you are feeling like you need to stop, like you need to tell me that, because I'll just keep going, not, you know. So yeah. They didn't you just. Yeah. I mean it was always one of my better days, but like that, you know, communication between a photographer in the the person being photographed can be very strange.


And one of the things I noticed with you is that you give clear direction, which I really appreciate, because sometimes you kind of just you're in front of the camera and you have no idea what I mean. I can't see myself I don't know if I look ugly, stupid, whatever. And it's really like you never looks stupid. Wow. I mean. Well, you know what? No, come on. Like two degrees to the left and it's like, man, you know.


So it's like it's kind of hard to to just data helpful. Like just move your chin a few inches to the left. And you said exactly that. Like that's that's very helpful to me. Rather than like fierce. Yeah. Look fierce. Looks like you're like God. But does that mean you're never there was this one photo shoot, whatever it was for Out magazine, and I don't remember the photographer's name. And it was, I believe, the person I remember the name, but it was that, um, pronouns.


And they were shooting me and it was natural light from the side and they were kneeling. And I said, this isn't work. This I believe we should flip this way, like, you know. And I said, I'm worried about all this natural light, like the texture in my skin. And they go, Oh, don't worry, I'm a master manipulator of light. And I go, OK, Thomas Kincaid, oh, let's be real here.


I mean, actually, oh, that whole shoot, they ended up having to put them all in black and white because I was like, these are nasty. You can't trust anybody. I don't trust anybody. Can't trust anybody. Which is like which you why I'm going to get my claws are clinging into your side and they're not leaving. No, because I like that, you know, she's dead and we're photographing the body. You're you're going to be there.


My weight, the casket next year, three months from now. Yeah. Thanks for that. Well, I. I mean, you should always have a clear mind on any set. I feel like I feel like, you know, not all photographers are created equal. As someone who does portrait photography, you know, I could never pick up a camera and like, go shoot a wedding and like, get you know, I've tried to like catch that moment.


It's like to pretend like I can't do it. But other photographers are great at that and don't know what the hell they're doing in a studio. So, you know, I think especially when you're shooting anything along the lines of glamour, you know, it's all lighting. So, you know, yeah, there are photographers that do want to see. And, you know, I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I'm going to say this.


I remember even the Annie Leibovitz shots of Rupal for Vanity Fair. They were stunning, but they were not necessarily lit in the most flattering way. So to. No, not at all. You know, and I think that's just what each photographer's prerogative about, you know, how fantasy you want to take it as opposed to like some photographers really do want. You know, and a lot of art buyers in the art world want to see the realism when they want to see this.


Seems they want the they want the public. I'm on the side of the duck. Yes. Yeah. And that's fine. That's you know, that's interesting to that. You know how many of those I've retouched. Girl, what has been the wildest thing you've retouched. I like what's the nastiest, weirdest, wildest thing because you're really zooming in on people's nether regions. Yeah. I can't say anyone in specific. Everybody's equally gross, you know, for the people at home.


Let's recap some of my favorite pictures that obviously Katja shot me dead in a bunch of times. Right. And that those Disney shot to death. Yeah, I shutter's Maleficent. So how do you get a contract? Disney. Incredible. There's you did if you a Marleau that wonderful. And I don't know if she was who was the one that had the crown of uncut dicks. Well that was so that was I mean that was probably the most retouching I've done on a piece.


I did a piece called Medusa and instead of it started off as a joke. I just had a bunch of I went great to do a head of penises instead of snakes. And everyone said, that's completely mad, you have to do it. And I had just gotten signed with Disney prior to that. So I was like, well, maybe I shouldn't do this right now, but I'm Disney, actually. They said whatever you just your own private would like to do it.


They hide the nipple just like hide the pixelate. Yeah. Oh, no. That was very. There was. A lot of those, but I worked with them, Marlo was the face of that, and then a lovely gentleman who shall not be named was the penises for that. And that took a long time because they just, you know, the dicks individually. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, they were all him. Yeah.


Fortunately, I knew him on a romantic level, so she was a little bit more, you know, we know what it was, you know. Well, yeah, I think yeah. You know, I know whatever. I enjoy my work. Yeah. And explain why you kept touching me during. I'm kidding. That is not a joke. Twenty twenty either. Well, you know who else I'm trying to think of all my favorite DJs.


That guy with the Byrds. Oh my G. Yeah. Sometimes people don't. That's another thing that's interesting. I find with people that I think most most people that are used to being shot are used to producing a lot of content. We need this many outfits, get the shot, you know, turn out so we have lots of options. Whereas when I'm doing a piece like that, it's like you're going to spend eight hours in hair and makeup and then I'm going to shoot you for a half an hour and we're going to get one shot and that's it.


That's why I love my favorite photographers have all done that. It's amazing. You love I love shooting with you and then Albert and then you don't. Adam from Chicago, he shoots a lot of the Queens or he used to what's his last name like Almani Hammie or something. Yes. Yeah. He is like, you know, he'll go in on that retouching. Yeah. Yeah. But he shoots for like twenty minutes and he gets it. And it was always to me when you hear that that number of clicks keeps going up, you start to realize that the person doesn't know what they're looking for.


It's a waste too. I never understand photographers. I mean, I guess unless you're shooting motion where you just click, click, click, trying to get the right one, it's like why I'm I come from the school of film where like, if you're shooting medium format film, like you've got ten shots and not ten shots, just cost you 500 bucks for, you know, so like get the shot. Don't subtlely Dudly with stuff like, you know, set up but the one with GGGI actually took.


I should take that back because you know we were shooting with one bird named Pkwy which I had to shoot, and multiple positions all around her and then composited all together. And fun fact. The woman who owned that bird, Pecky was the woman who played Samarrah in the ring. You're kidding. Yeah, she was the contortionist. And so she has this pet bird. So it was a great shoot. And the bird was amazing and like literally was like a cat, like you could hold it and loved and talk to you and would like snuggle into your neck and it totally changed.


I'm a little scared of birds because they are dinosaurs, but I love. Yeah. Oh I love birds. They're gorgeous. But you know, don't bite your ear off. Yeah. Yeah. Peck your eyes out. You don't think a dog will kill you. Like absolutely no. Notice that I don't have any illusions about the next shoot. I'm putting dogs all over your shoulders. Yeah. Her dead dogs. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God.


Can I ask us aside who's like your your favorite person you've gotten to shoot. We are like this is like the stuff that I dreamed about doing. Well I still have a list of people that I was really last. Yeah. Who's on the ladder vision. Anjelica Huston. Come on. I've, I've, I was close to shooting her once. I'm still going to try and spend time with her on the floor. Yeah. Tilda Swinton, I feel like you have to shoot her shoot till do guys that like oh I mean talk about alien.


They talk about like she always looks like National Geographic. The last photo of her seen alive. Yeah. I love them. Yeah. They're just but which is why you love shooting. Yeah. Yeah. Why. Nice. But I mean I would love to shoot like Gaga and you know, I like shooting. I'm not necessarily after shooting like what's the biggest celebrity I can shoot. That's not really what it's about for me. It's more about like who can I transform the most?


And usually I like that process a lot of like let's take you out of your element completely. And I know everyone's heard it like let's do something totally different that you've never done. But I really like aspire to do that with every shoot that I do. And sometimes it's got me in trouble. I hope I've pushed people a little too far out of their comfort zone and they they don't know how to react to the photos. In the in the end, it's too much for them, really.


So have you had, like, a person who's, like, really unhappy with the reality and I don't want to talk about I've really well to different degrees. I mean, for the most part, everyone's always even you know, people are I'm really grateful that the majority of people that I've shot always are really happy with their images. Sometimes people that I've shot will be, you know, will give me a list of my along of like, I love it, but like, please fix this, which I'm always happy to do.


There was only one person that I shot which I shall not name her name, but it was. Yes. And it was it was horrifyingly, but we just we just mouthed the words to Susan Boyle. You know, I would love to shoot her. Yeah, and it was and I think, you know, without fluffing my own feathers, I thought the images turned out gorgeous. And everyone that saw the images said that she had never looked better.


But I think it was just too far out of the comfort zone, her comfort zone with how she's used to being seen. And and, yeah, that was kind of an ugly story, because instead of just maybe politely saying these aren't quite what I wanted, she really kind of degraded me. You're kidding. I was really bad. I was like, really, really bad. It took me a long time to get over that. And you think that when you shoot people that have been in the industry for so long that they would have decorum and courtesy.


But, yeah, I didn't that there is something like that before they approach it with a bit of tact. Portrait like a portrait with someone like you is also so intimate. So I'm sure for a lot of people it just is how is it not vulnerable and how is it not, you know. Well, I mean, I, I mean, I had a similar situation where I remember, you know, we're after our shots. Shots were done and they were rolling out, like you said.


Sure. We had to stop. And that you just said after I shouted and your shoot. No, what I shit wet shit. I farted wet shit all over the floor. You know, she didn't say anything. Well, you quietly cleaned it up yourself. I did what I thought was very impressive. Thank you very much. Know, but when the images came out, I said, aren't you going to retouch them at all? And you said, no, they need to stay raw.


I'm not going to retouch these images. We need to show you people as you really are. And those were the images that people saw. No Photoshop. It's true. Yeah. In fact, I added wrinkles and once to see the finished one to me on a journey, I went, we really. I didn't realize you were here. Oh, no. The retouching, I think is the most fun part. And retouching has been around forever.


I really have, like over the years have had to like, wade through the retouching pull because it's something that is so people get so opinionated about retouching. People loved people love this. And now that the the democratization of retouching is like through faith to everybody else retouched, you know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, I don't know any drag queens who would throw up an image without a filter filter or some kind of festoon thing besides you.


I do it a lot. You I wear so much makeup that I know that if I light it like straight on, it is what it is. Yeah. As long as the skin texture isn't like being brought out, like you can live with it. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think about I mean there's, I'm always fascinated by this like oh it's like you have to pull the wool over people's eyes, like when you're retouching your own images that you can't let anybody know like that you've done like you've.


Yes. Like a shameful element of it. It's like pulp, especially with dragons. That's a lot of times, too. I don't allow people to see the images while we're shooting because people will get in their head and they'll lose the goal of the shoot. They'll just immediately go, oh, God, I need to change this. And they won't just give me what I need and let me worry about that later. But I mean, retouching has been around forever.


Ansel Adams retouched his work. And I mean, every shot you've ever seen of Marilyn Monroe, they would bleached their negatives. And and, you know, physically, you know, that's where the term airbrushing comes. You physically airbrush your work with paint. And so I, I kind of get up in arms a lot about the debates of like, you know, in order. Thomas Edison, Thomas Edison famously wore a shape tape concealer at all times.


Exactly. Well, yeah. I mean, look at the idea of idealizing. Art has been around forever since the Egyptians. So I don't know which just got me talking about all of this. It's just like the idea of like, oh, this is retouched. You touch it, you're going to it's not real. If you're going to be anti retouch, you also have to be anti hair and makeup. Yeah. And like clothing like. Yeah.


None of that's not. Are we doing well. What do you think about like taking out a leg, you know, like sometimes it's always funny to see, like, you know, in vogue or whatever where they're like they'll just they'll, they'll take the scale out of something or they'll just like whittle down somebody's arm to like to a bonus and it just like kind of saying that way. But but I guess on the cover of Vogue, it's probably more like it's less about fantasy and more about reality.


Although I could be wrong about it. I wish it was back to fantasy. I know. I don't know. Well, you're really toeing the line as far as like which you do evoke a very high fantasy in it that which may be on your Vogue cover. Oh, God, probably somebody's already dead. Yeah. I mean, like a good paper. The agreement of the Lucille Ball. If I could shoot Lucy, that would be OK.


That's like the dream, you know. I mean, yeah. What about a man who's your dead man. Oh, living. So let's say two met living and dead loser like a Vincent Price. I mean, I'm playing with live for the. Like, I thought he was him in his youth, if you overlook a picture of Vincent Price, young damn religious. Yeah, I'm going to look at it while you guys look that up. We're going to take a break.


For more than a decade, Britney Spears has been trapped in a conservatorship that gives her father incredible power over every aspect of her life. It's hard not to wonder how did she go from pop princess to prisoner this season of wondering? Even the rich is looking for answers and chronicling the life of Britney Spears, starting with Britney as a young girl, Britney wanted to sing and dance her way out of Louisiana, but she had no idea that she would later become one of the most famous pop icons of the twenty first century.


But the more famous she got, the more harmful the press became until it finally was all too much for her to handle. A very public breakdown led to a family intervention and a conservatorship. It was supposed to be temporary, but Britney is still at the mercy of her father's control today, her fans formed a movement hashtag Britney, dedicated to freeing Britney from the conservatorship. But there's a lot more to it than that. I listen to the first episode of this podcast.


I have to say I'm pretty riveted.


You know, I'm really interested to kind of go beyond the tabloid headlines because there's a lot of I don't really know, like the the gritty details of what's going on with her. And it's so fascinating. Know the princess in a palace prison. But anyways, yeah, it's it's a really cool, really cool podcast. So check it out. Listen to the latest season of even the rich free Britney on Apple podcast Spotify or listen, ad free by joining Wonderings in the laundry app.


And we're back and we're back. So so Vincent Price, young Vincent Price was a hottie who who would be your living male cover guy? Oh, no, I'm so bad at this. I know. He's beautiful. Who's beautiful? Are you paying attention to the people who are alive right now? Really? No, I'm not. You know, I never I never know what anything is. Yeah. I mean, who's a who? Who do you think?


I mean I mean, uh, you know, you would be really good with Timothy Charlamagne. Oh, Timothy. Timothy shallowing. Yeah. Because he's got that. I feel like you could insert him into some kind of like Dandi he could. Or Harry Styles. I'd love to shoot Harry Styles. You know, I'd love to shoot Jonathan Taylor. Thomas cheat. I would crush someone asked me that ages ago. There was this in the past, like heartthrob.


Would you shoot. But he's done he's just he's he's dead. Oh, no, I don't think I got I this line. No, he's just I don't I don't know where to find him, but like, you know, want to keep working. You have you act like you're walking around Hollywood, like Hollywood like Jonathan. I'm going to get that tattooed to my mum. I was just looking for jury. I have to ask, besides your photography, you have a very distinct personal style.


When when did you I mean, it's your drag. When did you start dressing the fantasy? Every day. Oh, I have a great mom who really encouraged me from I mean, really, I was wearing dresses and jelly shoes in elementary school. I mean, and my my and I should say both of my parents are really fine with that. But yeah, I don't I think I was really privileged in many ways growing up, including that that it was like I never question that when people were like, why are you wearing a, like, floor length kimono in, like high school to, you know, on a Tuesday?


I just didn't win. I don't know. I didn't get. Yeah, and I grew up in Reno, which is a now it's a little bigger, but, you know, like the best place you could shop, it was like hot topic. And I was like, I'm not going to go to J.C. Penney. And I just know I just wasn't like a jeans and t shirt kid. So, yeah, I thanks for saying that because I really only wear black milliner's every day.


Know. But you're so glam. Yeah. You're ugly. And you so and you also I mean I remember a couple of years ago, wear over your house and you're like, it's like, oh I've been playing around with music and then you play us. How have we not touched on the latest track like so like you've been doing it all year long. Johns being both an inspiration and beauty in front of and on the on the camera lens.


Yeah, I'm behind the camera. In the camera. Yeah. Thank you for that. You also are a fabulous musician with probably some music videos you ever see in the music industry. That was so good Petunia. So like it's embarrassing how good you are. Thank. Really that means a lot when people I have no idea what I'm doing musically. I truly do not. I don't know because I, I have to say this to coming from the photo background.


I really when I turned 30, I kind of had one of those, like, what am I doing with my life? Like, why am I not doing more stuff? Like, I know I'm a photographer and I love what I'm doing, but like, I should just be doing more artistic things. I think it's good for photographers to to be in front of the camera every now and again because it helps you direct your subjects so much better, which blows my photographers.


Oh, I can't get my picture taken. It's like. No, like you need to know what you're making others suffer through, you know. Yeah. How do you how do you how do you deal. Are you more meticulous or are you harder on yourself when you're in front of the camera. What's your experience of being the the the self portrait. I just I myself you're just somebody I don't know. I don't look at myself as anything.


Nobody's a model and everybody's a model. So I think to a photographer, I'm like, I know what I can. You can you can alter everything nowadays. So yeah, I just I whenever we. Great. Sorry. Music Thank you for appreciating my music. It really just started off as like a you know, I took a book of poetry that I had been working on. I was like, how do I turn? You're also a poet.


Well anything else. Car repair. We had to book because I it on the tree and made the paper very true. We all write poetry. Come on world. Yes. We finally did seven volumes. Yeah, exactly. Scripture really. I shouldn't even say poetry. Just we all have ideas and we write them on paper. We know we're all poetry. We write the check. Exactly. Yeah. But speaking of Devin Green and her magnificent Beau Douglas, a really I just it was just friends that were like encouraged me that just said you should turn this into music.


And so I just got I you know, I'm just lucky that I'm working with really talented people that I can, you know, really like the first album that I did. I don't know how to read music or. I've never studied anything, so I was being very Enyart in the sense that I was doing all of my demos just by layering myself humming in garage band, and I was taking all of these, Tonette, and saying, like, OK, like here are the tracks that need to be a guitar like.


And it sounded like a mess, but, you know, a good producer who deciphered it. Yeah. He was like totally great British. And he hates when I do that, but it's yeah. He was just like. Brilliant. It's so cool to be like I feel like we have a little coven going on here in L.A. It's like it's a cool little like group, like there's people and then there's the people. You actually would have the privilege to meet the people who really like you, who are just creatives who have set the standard for both like like the final product.


Everything you put out is so like you know it, you stand by it, you swear by it. The integrity, your well, the feeling is mutual due to I think it comes down to art for art's sake. There are people who are making commercial integrity. I agree. But it's it's true. I mean, what you guys do comes from the heart. And you guys have to go into another dimension to be as crazy as, you know what I mean?


You're not I don't view you guys as being like commercial artists, even though what you do translates to commercialism. Well, but I think the core of what you do, neither one of you think about like what will do good commercially. You're just crazy people that are making art, which I really relate to, you know. So it's got to be fun, man. It's a good balance because I've always got like a I'm always trying to sell something on the corner and she's always kind of like, but I don't want to do that.


And so it's a good balance of like we have to get paid a little bit and actually enjoy it. Yeah. And have to get paid or else you can't make the Ganassi, you gotta get paid. So speaking of getting paid to take another break, speaking of getting paid, let's take another break. We are back, we are back, so speaking of getting paid, what is it? So talk about working for Disney. Well, I mean, that sentence sounds a lot better than it is.


I've only have one piece that's been released by them as of now, even though I have a whole stack of images that I've finished for them that are waiting to be Disney. What you want to know? That's at the Malefic. That's the Maleficent. That was the first one. You know, I have to say and I'm saying that we all do love I wasn't really Disney's cup of tea, so to speak, but I grew up watching Disney films.


When I moved to L.A., I was like, I have to do work for Disney and Disney. Fine art is who I'm signed with. But it's it's kind of a it's a section of their merchandising where they feature maybe 100 artists worldwide that do different variations of Disney characters. But they they don't work with photographers. They only work with illustrators and sculptors and whatnot. And so I went in there with all these big ideas and it took five years for them to I'm not exaggerating five years of back and forth in meetings.


And they probably had extremely protective. They're very protective thing is old and like, I don't know, like, I guess what's the word important to them as like a Sleeping Beauty care. Yeah. I was referencing of, you know, Salvador Dali was one of Disney's best friends and the stuff that if you look at like old from the 50s, like conceptual art of those early Disney films, they were dark and like, weird as hell. And that's what I really wanted to tap into.


But I and I have to be careful what I say. I don't know if those ideas are still what is wanted by Disney, but I'm still pushing it as far as I can. And I'd be looking here, Devin, I mean, the way you shot her in the way it's lit, it's she's definitely spooky. She's definitely spookier than she's portrayed in the films. Yeah. Her face is it's if you look up in the night and saw that across the room.


Yeah. It's horrifying. That shoot, by the way, too, is like a 13 hour shoot. The police came because of all the smoke bombs. It was like that was a good example of like, you know, Devon standing there dressed really like and Devon is such a pro didn't trust anyone, even though she passed out literally once because the people in the face I know, I know always pulling horns were real. And so they weighed so much and just having weight on your head for that long.


And, you know, I was pushing her to smoke bombs, Sulzer everywhere. And just it was like a lot of knives. Yeah. Knives and forks. Yeah. The bit that you bound to discard. Yes. Beauty standards. Yeah. So I'm, I'm such an icon. I just sometimes can't believe we know you. I know. And you're not an asshole. I mean, you know, you hear so many horror stories about people with major talent and it's like you start to think that if if anybody is that good, then they have to come with all this, you know, these caveats and baggage.


But you ego, right? You will start to write. Yeah. Who has time for all that? Yeah, exactly. It's time for all that. You know, you it's such a privilege and to be shot by you is like a whole nother privilege. And I just always can't wait to see what you do next. Well, let's keep it going, you two. Yeah. Where can we where can people find you in your work where you can find me on my website franzoni dot com or on Instagram at the same name.


And that's to anyway way to see Z. I'm telling you guys, just go to the website. It's the first thing you're hit with is gallery view of some of these images. And they will just it I mean, I'm not encouraging you to do this, but it would make great phone phone screens. Absolutely. These pictures are so beautiful. Look at Kandi can. Oh God. That is so great. So great that you, young man.


That's fantastic. Yeah. What have you showed? Violet I'm sure. Violet Yeah. They were. I don't know. She survived. She looks fabulous. I did some promo stuff for her to her. I never shot her. Yeah. Commercial. Yeah. I always shot Violet as Violet. I've never really quite taken her as like Fran's world, but I'd love to at some point. Yeah. I mean when you're Violet it's you've already arrived.


Yeah. Yeah. It's great for us. He's more like what have we got you in a totally different way to make up a completely different outfit. OK, what if what if you look good. Yeah, I always say that's the spirit of drag. You are a star. We just got to change your height, your voice, your hair color, my hair cut my hair. We love you so much. I love you both so much.


Do you think you guys. Of course. The nine.