Tonight, special, the NBA is back edition of the Bill Simmons podcast on the ring or podcast that were brought to you by zip code or if you're an employer, you know how challenging can be to hire. But right now you face even more challenges. Mattsson Resources could relate. They need to hire a seasoned senior Citrix administrator to provide I.T. support. So they turn to our presenting sponsor, Zipcar. That's how they found Peter Alcantara Jr. He was laid off during covid-19 needed to find another job quickly.

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If you're missing the sports bar as much as we are, you need to get to Buffalo Wild Wings to watch all the action.

The bears called the wings come in. Twenty four sauces and seasonings. Fans can still be fans. And if you'd rather watch at home, make sure you watch with a wing bundle. You do what you want to do. Just make sure wings are involved. Please drink responsibly. Fatso mentioned the ring or NBA show, which is going to be back in full force. The mismatch with Vernon KFC that's happening this week. It should be up late tonight or early tomorrow morning.

And then Monday we have a new weekly podcast on the Ringer and the show that will be tweeting about, I think, tomorrow or maybe early Monday morning. I'll tell you more about it on Sunday's podcast, but very excited about this. We have a couple new additions coming to the ringer that I am super pumped about. So that's happening. Hey, I wanted to mention Spotify really quickly. Thanks to everybody out there has been spreading the word. Four men were coming up.

It was October 2015 when we launched this podcast, it was the first one on the ring or podcast network. Trivia question, what was the second one? It was Channel thirty three, which was the watch with Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald. I think that was the second one. But, you know, we're heading toward the five year mark here. And now Spotify has podcast charts and the Bill Simmons podcast was one of the ones who made it to the top of the charts.

I love doing the show, obviously, it's been great and and it's been great to watch it grow and watch the audience grow, and especially now that the NBA is back. This is usually when when this is my favorite time to do the show NBA. And then the start of NFL would be the other favorite time. Somehow those two times are now merging, which is bonkers. But I like charts just because it gives you at least a sense of what new paths are coming out, which are the old standbys are still doing well, what episodes are out there, things like that.

If you want to see what other podcast made it on the charts, go to the podcast Hub on Spotify, where you can also check out some of the vodcast here that we did book. A basketball has some videos now and higher learning with Rachel Lindsey and Ben Lathan as well, which is a really good podcast. One more podcast we launched this week. You know this because there are my podcast on Tuesday, but are to see two with CCE Badly and Ryan Maruko.

That one is up. It's just an excellent podcast. Couldn't be happier to have it. The regular podcast now, so check that one out coming up. I'm going to talk about the double header tonight, just my late night thoughts here about the Lakers, Clippers and jazz Pelicans and just what it's like to have basketball back and what tonight meant. And then Kyle Brandt from the NFL Network, who has another podcast that's watching with us in two weeks. We'll talk about that.

But we're going to talk about the possible return of football, whether that's actually going to happen. And we talk a lot about the real world and the challenge. And we're going to talk about the 2007 Pats, all kinds of things. Hold on horses for that. And then at the tail end, we needed a team culture update during the pandemic. So my daughter's coming out for a little mini edition of For Reals is because there's a lot of teen culture.

There's stuff I don't understand with Tic TAC and people fighting, people getting canceled. She's going to explain all of it. That's all coming up. First, our friends. From Pearl Jam. All right, I'm keeping the top of the pack as that is nine thirty seven p.m. Pacific Time Thursday night, just watched basically, I don't know, five and a half straight hours of basketball. Man, did it feel good?

I, I said on the S.S. and Ryuko when they were on the podcast couple of days ago, I was talking about how badly I want a basketball to come back. I felt like Tom Hanks in Castaway Island just waiting for anything to wash up on shore. And then the FedEx boxes show up and you're like, oh, my God, FedEx boxes. I wonder what's in these. That's how I felt about two random regular season games that were on television today that we didn't know if basketball is going to come back.

We didn't know if this was going to work. We didn't know if the huge commitment they were going to make in all these different ways to social justice was going to overpower the basketball, changed the tenor of it. Nobody knew. We didn't know anything. I thought I worked beautifully. I really thought it was one of the great regular season nights the league's ever had, when you think of the stakes, you think everything they went through, how much money, time, effort, energy was put into figuring out how this could work, how they really wanted to use their platform in all of these different ways to raise awareness, to bring home the social justice theme, which started really with that TNT promo with McMeel at the top all the way through the really powerful national anthem with the Pelicans and the Clippers.

There is a vibe and a feeling that I thought was really special, watching on TV from know 3000 miles away and. You know, if you just think like, all right, what were our objectives here, keep this season going. Make the players feel safe, raise awareness, entertain it, did everything, and I thought in one of the weird ironies of all of it, Rudy Gobert was the hero of the first game where you have March 11th, which I just kind of think of now as the global game where it becomes the tipping point.

Really, if the pandemic where I think for Americans, at least we knew this was bad, this was happening, and then all of a sudden that night with basketball and Tom Hanks gets it and all hell breaks loose and they're canceling NBA games and go back positive. And and it all kind of came to a head that night. So then you fast forward nearly five months, almost five months and go bears out there and makes the two big free throws and, you know, was the dominant defensive part of the second half of that Pelicans Koops game.

But I thought that was an interesting turn of events. All right. So. I wrote down a couple of things that I wanted to talk about, just a couple of themes just coming out of this game out of the two games, but especially the Clips Lakers game, which I think was a better game than I expected without Harrell and without Lou Williams. The first question I had.

This home court advantage even matter now, because you think about the games today. The pelicans, I think, were favored by two over the jazz, I don't even know how they come up with that spread and I honestly don't know why the pelicans were favored. And then the Lakers were favored by I think it was five over the Clippers, but. This is the all time neutral court, and if there is a hole in this whole thing and it's a tiny hole, it's a little prick, it's a little pinhole, but it's still a tiny hole.

It's that the we played this whole regular season for an advantage that doesn't seem to really exist, and I think Reggie Miller was almost getting a little confused back because he kept talking in the first half with the Lakers, Clippers and how this didn't really matter. You got to you got to use these games to get your guys, you know, into the groove and get the rhythm back. But ultimately, you know, there's not real stakes here. And I'm thinking like there's actually a lot of stakes for the Clippers.

They could pretty easily drop from a two to four seed.

And then the more I'm thinking about, I'm like, well, who cares? It's not like it's not like there's real home court advantage. It's not like you have to worry about winning a Game seven on somebody else's court. It's the same court for everybody. So I guess I'm looking at it from the Clippers perspective where they were very careful with the minutes with Paul George and coordinate. There is a moment in the fourth quarter when both of those guys were out and they completely fell apart.

And I think if it was like a must, must, must win game, you bring those guys back out. You really you know, you don't let that slip away the way it did, but. The Clippers are like, we just want these guys healthy for the four playoff rounds and we want to get them back in the groove. So in a weird way, Reggie Miller was way right. I hate agree with Reggie Miller, but he's right.

It doesn't really matter if the Clippers are second, third or fourth. I don't know they're going to play the Lakers at some point. So that was my first takeaway where I'm thinking about matchups and stuff. And you think about Philly and the other side where they could end up playing the Celtics in the three six match up or they could try to climb to five. And if you're them, it's like, does it really matter? You don't have to win a Game seven in Boston, so mark that Sopot down.

The second thing, we were worried whether this would feel like basketball and we had a sense from the scrimmage is that it would. But there's a couple of things I really liked one. In the announcers didn't to talk about this, and I was really surprised in both games, I don't think they had a conversation about this. Underneath the basket, where normally there's 10 photographers, the basket support always seems really close, and then you have all the courtside seats pretty close to the baseline, too, and you always worry about the players on drives or whatever, flying past the basket and basically doing what happened to Paul George in that in that fifth game or crashing into a cameraman and breaking their arm, whatever the wide.

Real estate behind the basket, I thought, change the way some of these guys were doing their drives, like they were going full speed at the basket and flying by. There was a couple of points where the guys went so far back, beat back behind, had the basket that their team had to intentionally foul because it was a five on four. So there's a recklessness on these drives in a good way because they don't have in the back of their head.

If I go flying past the basket, I'm potentially going to break my leg flying into a cameraman because there were no cameramen. And it reminded me of of what the FIFA games look like or even with the Olympics look like, so you had that a little bit wider shot, more space, especially under the baskets, just more space in general.

And it was a little weird, but but no weirder than watching, you know, an Olympic qualifier, something. I liked it. I don't I got to be honest, I don't really care about the fans that much because most of the time it's canned noise anyway, or the fans are just, you know, cheering after 3:00 or whatever. But, you know, the crowds that I grew up with in the 70s and 80s were basically all we had was in Oregon and people doing chants like those were real crowds.

And those crowds affected the games. Nowadays, it's it's kind of just noise and manufactured toys some of the time, so I didn't really miss it. I really liked hearing the noise from the teams on the bench, especially like you could really hear, like after a big dunk or big defensive play, you could hear the bench and the coaching staff and make some big kind of roar.

I liked it. I liked hearing the sneakers squeak. I liked hearing sometimes you can hear the guys yell at each other. Other times they would bleep it. But I just didn't miss the fans. I think the digital faces. It's cute. It's adorable.

Ultimately, I would get rid of this if it were up to me. And then the one thing that I was trying to get used to was the jerseys, because, you know, everybody had different phrases written on the back of their jerseys. But it was just disorienting to see, I don't know, Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert, Zion Williamson, but their their actual name wasn't on their jersey and it was always like kind of a double take for me.

And then you're like, oh, that's an. Or other. Yeah, that's Mitchell, but I can't wrap my head around the Jersey thing, but I'll get there. I'll get there. I think it's I think it's cool that they did that.

I would put I think I would put on the front, maybe on the shorts. I would put the guy's name, the letters in descending order on the shorts. So their name is somewhere in there, but. I thought I thought in general it worked, I like the coaches in the polo's, I thought the referee uniforms were cool. And that leads me to another thing that I noticed that I wrote down. I didn't realize I'd miss it this much, four and a half months in, so nice to have bad NBA officiating back, so nice to just bitch about cause you think about all the shit we've been through as a country the last four and a half, five months.

It was nice just to just to place my anger at Scott Foster again, because you know of a terrible no call or LeBron just freaking out for the fifth time in the fourth quarter because he didn't get the call he wanted or terrible long replay reviews. When you knew what the car was going to be and then we have to spend another three minutes watching it from 15 angles, wondering why the hell they do it this way, nobody likes this. Literally nobody.

Kind of enjoyed it. I liked having it back. I liked having stuff to complain about and that stuff that wasn't why is it that guy in the Starbucks line wearing a mask? Because he could get me covered. It was nice to have benevolent things to complain about again. Next thing. And the TNT guys, especially Barkley, was on this at halftime and after the game, too, and it was the big takeaway from that Clippers Lakers game and it was the big take away.

Any time you saw Davis against the Clippers all year, he's their kryptonite. They don't have anyone on the roster who can handle them. They haven't really figured out a solution for it. And then you take Carol out, not that harrowed of, like, shut him down, but at least it was a more effective body. But, you know, it's 17 free throws tonight. It felt like he could have had 50 points if he really wanted to.

And if LeBron was like, I'm getting Davis 50 points tonight, which he wasn't. I didn't think Davis played that great like he I think he was eight for 19. He's such a tough match up for them. He's just so long, they just don't know what to do with him. And it was interesting at the end of the game where LeBron basically took over in the last minute on the crunch time possessions and waived Davis off and did it himself.

He got a layup, then he got that heave that he got the rebound and put it back in. And if we're in a playoff series and I know it's LeBron James, I know he's one of the three best players ever, but if I'm the Clippers, I would much rather have LeBron trying to create his own shot in those situations than trying to figure out something with Davis because they don't have an answer for Davis. And worst case scenario to Davis possession, he's getting fouled.

He just is so. I don't know what they do with that, you look at the minutes that Zubac and Noah played today and they were awful and I don't love perspired us as people now of us in this podcast. But I went to look at the plus minus as I get that can't be good, Zubaidi was only a minus five and 15 minutes. No, as a minus 12.

They don't really have an answer. And it was the one thing I felt like heading into the trade deadline, I really wanted to figure out how they could get another body and not Marcus Morris, who was terrible tonight. I just didn't think they need Marcus Morris. I thought they needed somebody to throw at Anthony Davis.

And you could feel it tonight that they needed Lou Williams. And I think, you know, that's why it's hard to judge this game in the big context. Clippers, Lakers, not just because they care about Lou Williams. He's he's a possession saver, he's a guy that, you know, you can run eight to 12 plays for him a game, and he will save five possessions that have gone wrong with eight seconds left in the shot clock and get you a good shot.

They didn't have that tonight. It's not Reggie Jackson, Beverley. That's not really what he does. So there was a huge load on Kawhi and Paul George tonight. When Lou Williams is back, not only does he add that, but it's also somebody that the Lakers would have trouble, I think defending basically would be Caruso to him because they lost Avery Bradley, they lost Rondo. Not that Rondo would have done a great job.

But you know, the Lou Williams thing, it's weird everybody's been making jokes about and I heard Chris Vernon talk about this the other day. And I agree, like he you think how well this has gone. Lou Williams could have screwed the whole thing up. By going to Magic City, and I know it's funny to talk about the chicken wings and all that stuff, but he could have singlehandedly undermined so.

I'm with you, the chicken wings thing is hilarious, I laughed at all the Barkha jokes today, but it feels like it should always be batshit every so often that this guy really put this whole bubble thing in danger. And, you know, we're in 2020. We're supposed to all be player friendly and it's supposed to be a big jerk circle for the players. And you have to be really careful about criticizing players and all that stuff. But I don't think Lewins could be criticized enough for that.

They let him out of the bubble and he went to a gentleman's club wearing the mask that the NBA gave the players and. It's a tough one, so we'll see what happens when he's the next Laker game, but that it would have been fun to see him tonight. I don't really know what to take away from the clips tonight. Other than other than George and Kunai, you know, they're really tough for LeBron. It's just really hard for him to get good shots.

And even when he's able to get to the basket or get the shot he wants, it's a lot of work. So that bring that is another reason why the Davis thing so important to the New Orleans game. Really quick. A lot of people are talking about this. I'm sure the minutes restriction, Mazatlán when they do this minute's restriction thing and it somehow results in. The guy not being out there for the four most important minutes of the game.

I don't really have an explanation other than it that's the kind of thing you do if you're Alvin Gentry, if you're just if you don't want to be in the bubble and you're trying to get fired, it's not like New Orleans doesn't need these games.

News flash, they really need these games, so. You end up with a situation where he's on a minutes restriction, that's fine. He's not out there during the only time you really want him out there, like maybe staggered so that he's played the last six minutes. I thought that was crazy. I thought it was crazy. It didn't bring him out for a decoy when they're down to 12 seconds.

I've just put them on the floor, eat on the stand in the corner, at least. At least Utah would have had to worry about him. The the thing with Utah and I need to see them a few more times, but losing Bogdanovich, which I thought was really going to hurt them and I still do. But, you know, they O'Neill basically replaced his minutes and he's a defense glew, energy guy, but it puts more pressure on Connolly to create have the ball in his hands and kind of be Mike Conley.

And he looked like Mike Conley tonight. So did they have to sacrifice by Bogdanovich to get the Mike Conley they actually traded for like, no, that's not how it should have played out, but I do think that might be a result. And he did look like himself. And, you know, I do think it was too many chefs in the kitchen. Bogdanovich is a guy who loves having the ball. Mitchell loves having it. Ingels likes having the ball in his hands.

Really? And then Connolly and you have four guys are just kind of used to playing with the ball or, you know, having the ball kind of play off them. And and you looked more like themselves tonight. But I thought there was some really good Mitchell holiday stuff in that game, too. Some good one on one battles. That was the first time, you know, we got through the national anthem. They're actually playing and getting used to what it looks like and everything.

And then that when they started kind of going toe to toe, that was the first time it really felt like basketball to be. But last thing with that game was. I was if I'm a Portland trailblazer or Portland fan, that was the game you really needed New Orleans to lose because their schedules is pretty easy for the most part, they needed to lose that one. And now you're looking at that. If you're poor, Atlanta, you're going.

This is great. This is that was what we needed to happen, Portland's playing the Grizzlies tomorrow, if they win that one, they're in the mix and house and Sal and I have them at plus 480 to make the playoffs.

So we're in for that. By the way, you know, sports is back with me and house and still had a devastating gambling loss. We had five to one odds on a Jazz Clipper's money line parlay that if the Paul George three goes in, we win.

But this is what we do. We lose at gambling. This is this is why we are us quickly. The last thing I have on this, which is just really annoying and I handed in my awards pics recently, so it's pretty relevant for me at least I have no idea why these eight games did not count for MVP in the NBA. And I think they made a huge mistake with that. I'm somebody who admittedly cares about that stuff more than probably anyone else in the Earth.

I really take it seriously. I know I've said it a million times, but like when I wrote my basketball book, I really relied on the MVP votes in the NBA, even though I knew, you know, there were some mistakes in there. But I've had an awards bout for a while and I think most of the decade, if not the whole decade, I really take it seriously. I think these last eight games should have counted. You know, you think like the eight lottery teams they're not playing was fine.

I wasn't going to vote for anybody in the lottery tables for MVP or all NBA anyway. I think we should have turned in the ballots for everything else. And I think we should have held off on MVP because like, what if the Lakers go, hey, you know, what if LeBron looks awesome? And you know what if Giannis looks like garbage for the last eight games?

There's just too many loopholes now. I'm pretty happy with the words, but I turned in and I'm going to read it to you right now, some people don't disclose their ballots. I've never understood that. I'm going to give you my ballots now. I voted for Bam Adebayo for most improved player. At Brandon Ingram, second Jayson Tatum, third Adonis as defensive player of the Year at Anthony Davis second Rudy Gobert third key a sixth man at Montrezl Harrell, Dennis Schroder, Dennis Schroder, Dennis Schroder and Xman Rookie of the Year Jam Grant Brandon Clark.

Kendrick Nunn ended up not voting for Zion. You only played nineteen games. I can do it Coach there Nick there's Frank Vogel Mike Budenholzer I won't read you my all rookie no defensive teams because who cares. And then. So here's four for MVP. And, you know, that's if you remember my podcast from March, I did not change my my list ionis one, LeBron two, add Kawhi three because I felt like those are the three most important teams.

I thought Kawhi the fact that he was able to bring Paul George there, I do feel like that matters. Same thing for LeBron that he was able to pop the Davis trade. I do weirdly think that should matter. In the MVP voting you're voting for who is the most valuable player of the regular season. And not only were those guys three of the best five or six players in the league, they also single handedly will the better roster their team.

I think that counts. But Kawhi, everything that happened last year, I thought he defended his third pretty well. He missed a couple of games.

So what I Yokich had for for MVP, because that Denver team, when we had to hand in the votes was the three seed and he's the only lead player on it. That's just a fact. And that whole team revolves around him offensively. And he's the only reliable guy they have game after game after game. And I just think that matters. I thought he was awesome the last probably 40 percent of the year two. Then I had Luca Donchak fifth who I had him.

The problem this isn't a slight to James Harden or Davis. I thought there were seven were the top five MVP candidates to share. I thought the stuff Luca did for Dallas on a team that was pretty weird and pretty thrown together in some ways, you know, and yeah, pausing is coming back from an injury. And other than that, just a bunch of role players and young guys and the burden that he had the whole year and how good he was and how he changed the atmosphere and the culture there, I just thought I thought that was worthy of the five spot.

I just couldn't get there with Harden because the last third of the season, he just wasn't that good. And Westbrook was the best part of that team. So, you know, whether he was six, whether seven or whatever, it was a really deep MVP, though. And you think about like patience. The activity, I think was like third in the MVP in 2004. Fourth, something like that. But we've had years where we didn't have three where the MVP candidates, Carmelo is the runner up in 2013.

This year we had, I thought, seven really good choices. And in Zach Lowe would say Zach Lowe at Dame Lillard Fourth. I refused to vote for anybody at under five hundred to him for MVP but but I see the case for them.

He kept them in it. Now they have a chance to make the playoffs. So that's what I did there. And then on NBA, the NBA has allowed us to get more creative.

Over the years with positions and my rule with this now is if I'm picking the five guys, I want to make sure the five together would make sense as a team. And that you could justify every spot, at least by 80 percent, so quite honest. Anthony Davis, James Harden, LeBron James. That's all I had for the top five, and now I know you're like, whoa, wait a second, you're James Harden, first time NBA, but look at the magic fifth MVP over Harden.

Yeah, yeah, I did. Go ahead, sue me. I just thought that it was more valuable to the Mavericks and I thought Harden for everything he did statistically this season. I think he had to be first team. His stats were better than look at that shows that now they are better because because of the burden that he has. But. I just felt good about those five. Now the stretch is playing Davis at Center, which was vindicated tonight because he played center crunch time and then put in LeBron at the guard position, which he is their point guard.

So he's playing guard on one side of the floor. That's good enough for me. So I like that. Kawhi Janice Davis Harden LeBron, my second team. Look at forward, which I could do, because he kind of floats around, he is also six eight Jason Tatum. Now, I had him as my other forward because. I thought as a two way player, he was really special this season, and the stats backed it up when he was on the court, the Celtics were great.

When he was on the court, they weren't as good. And the defensive challenges that he took and the way that he could affect games on both sides of the floor this year, I thought really set him apart. I was saying this before he had his big hot streak, you know, the last six, seven weeks of the season before it stopped. He's one of the best offensive players in the league. And the Celtics team, you know, was one of the five best teams in the league.

So I thought I felt justified put in there. And there's some other candidates we could talk about that I put on third team. I'd Yokich as the center game lowered and Chris Paul is the guard, that was actually pretty easy. Chris Paul, the stuff he did in crunch time this year was just phenomenal. But the way he kept that OKC team together, that seemed like a write off season. They trade Paul George for a bunch of picks, get SGA and Gallo in a contract year to get Chris a seemingly unhappy Chris Paul, and then he just becomes the leader of the team, makes them a playoff team.

So I thought really special season by him. I was psyched that he had one more second on behind him and then third team Pascal S.A.M. and Khris Middleton as my forwards. I had Jimmy Butler and Ben Simmons as my guards and then Bam Adebayo as the center, I put Bam over Rudy Gobert. Because that Miami team, I thought, overachieved because of of Butler and because Bam and how competitive those guys were because of some of the stuff Bam was doing defensively.

I just felt it was more important then than the stuff Rudy did, and here's the caveat. I'm tired of reading these stories and reading between the lines. Our heritage doesn't click with his teammates and whatever. And and sometimes he's, you know, a little bit of a head case and all this stuff. And I, I would just rather have Bam Adebayo. I rather be the guy that everybody talks about what an unbelievable tidbit is. So that's what I did for that second Middleton, Adebayo, Butler and Simmons.

But here's the thing. Oh and then the Simmons case. I had him on first team, our defense too I thought as a two a guy as frustrating as he is offensively. He was a destructive defensive player, an athlete, and somebody that, especially in the last four or five minutes of the game, seemed like he could guard anybody on the floor and. As I've said before, was my number one draft pick for the guy, if you really needed a steal with 10 seconds left, he's your guy, so.

You know, the funny thing with that is 30 Mambi, and he won't get it, I'm sure not enough people voted for him, but I feel like the ceiling for him is way higher than that. But I liked I liked a lot of the stuff I saw from him this year. And I just thought if it was him versus Kyle Lowry who missed some games and Bradley Beal who was just on a shit team, I couldn't do it. I can't reward shit team guy.

Sorry. So that was those are my 15 guys. The reason I bring it up is because we have these eight games left and I really think those eight games would have affected some of these picks. I know it sounds dumb, but that's still, you know, 12. What is it?

And now I'm going to have to do math. Eight games out of it's like 12 percent of the season.

So I thought we should have waited. I thought we should have done it after the season and maybe, you know, if two more weeks, maybe Middleton is my second team for it, I move Tatum down to the second team. Maybe I would have flipped Harden and Luca, who knows? But I wish they had done it that way. Anyway, those are all my basketball thoughts. We're going to take a break and then come back with Colbran one second.

Congrats, NBA all right, Colbran, coming up in one second. First, sports are back, you can find all the action on Fandor. I was there today making another terrible fantasy basketball team for daily MLB here. NBA is back. Fandor doing a major partnership with the ringer. We have a whole bunch of contests, you know, and I love when people who have awesome companies come to me and they say, hey, can you come up with some ideas?

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All right, Kyle Brandt is here, he is launching a new podcast later this month with the ringer is called Ten Questions with Kyle Brandt. That's the title. That's the title. I'm joined by you as well as Wilson. The volleyball is behind you. Would you. What is that, like an eBay purchase? What's going on?

It's a real Wilson. I got that as a gift. And I know you're a big Wilson fan.

And I listen during quarantine to the responsibles of Castaway, which I believe you did solo, and you and I texted about this. I've always wondered, one of the unanswerable questions was shot Nolan, in his darkest, loneliest night, ever intimate with Wilson. I think he was love with them. So you're saying intimate where the volleyball that was involved in the act or the volleyball was peripherally involved?

I think it was involved with the act. I think he was in love. I think it was extremely lonely. And I think that Chuck Noland made love to Wilson. I do. I've always thought that I feel the opposite.

I think if he ever got intimate in the cave, he turned Wilson around so Wilson couldn't see.

Do you think he's innocent? Yeah, I think Wilson could here, but not really know what was going on.

I was obviously just watching it again recently because I'm running out of movies to watch. I still don't understand why he didn't make a real run to try to save Wilson at the end there in the ocean. I know. I know he's been out in the water for a few days. I know it's hot. I know he's afraid to get too far away from the raft. But at the same time, it didn't seem that far away. I felt like he could have pulled it off.

I think he wanted Wilson to go away. I think he needed I think he deep down, he knew he needed to cut the ties.

It's an interesting question because it seemed like just a basic forward crawl for a few strokes. He could have corralled Wilson. And this is the guy who a maniac who decides to leave the island with part of a porta potty as a sail, like he's throwing caution to the wind, but he won't save his best friend, who I think happened to be his lover. It's suspicious.

I agree. Sometimes clever. Sometimes it's football coming back. I think so. It's really scary. I'm looking at this bill football right now, it feels like a character in one of your favorite shows, like maybe better call Saul where you're really rooting for him and you really like him, but you're kind of worried that they're going to die. So you kind of know that they're going to die like Kim Wexler and better call Saul. Everyone so mad she didn't get an Emmy nomination.

We love her and we've gone through all this with her and we get attached with her. But in the back of your head, you know that Kim Wexler might not make it and I hope I'm wrong is starting to feel that way with football.

It's turned and you got you got in the crosshairs a little bit. I heard I've been off Twitter for six weeks and it's been the best six weeks of my life.

Congrats to the whole argument about our sports media members rooting against sports coming back, which is the kind of stuff in month five of the pandemic becomes something that becomes that argument because everybody is so bored and beside themselves.

I I'm torn on this one because I'm the same person who thinks there's too many people out there taking this whole thing too lightly. But on the other hand, I fully support all these leagues trying to figure out if they can do this or not. There's too much money at stake. There's too much history at stake. You're talking about athletes who have a very short shelf life for their career football, no more than any other sport where these guys it's five to eight years for just about anyone.

If you're not a quarterback, I fully support them trying to figure it out. My question is. What's the plan, because now if I was a player, if I was like Russell Wilson, I'd be like, what are we doing?

Where's the hundred and twenty page protocol? How are we going to do games? How are we going to get from point A to point B? Like we should be figuring this out now.

You know, that's the schedule. So why haven't we figured out this other stuff yet? What's your take on that?

I think my take is the craziest part that's come out of that, about what are we doing and how are we going to run. This thing was the memo that was sent to the players about high risk situations that they need to avoid indefinitely for the season. And if they don't, there could be punitive issues like they're telling. But this way they're telling them to take a twenty one year old kid, small program, small town he goes to. He gets drafted.

Let's say he's in Miami, let's say he's in Vegas and he's got a couple hundred grand in his pocket and nothing to do. And he can't go to a bar. He can't go to a club.

He can't even go to a church gathering with a lot of people in it. So if you're sitting around like you can only play so much Xbox, and then when you get the text from the girl who says, hey, we're out of this bar, I'm with some friends, why don't you come out? That twenty one year old has to be like, no, I can't do it. And I think there's going to be total anarch army out this fall looking for players who are out doing things.

The camera phone situation where players are, oh, I saw this guy at a club. I saw this guy, I was at a party, more than 16 people. It's going to be out of control. I don't know how you ask a kid to do that, not even for just one weekend, let alone six months. It's tough. You are on the real world.

Chicago, a million years ago, where would you rank the judgment of people in a real broadcast being asked to make smart decisions versus NFL players, their early twenties?

Who's the favorite in that matchup?

I think I'm going to go real world because we don't have the expendable income. You know, if they had come to me and said, Kyle, we really would prefer that you don't go in the coed shower with Anissa right now. Just don't do it. Stay out of the coed shower. Don't go in the hot tub. Don't go to the confessional booth. I'd be like, yeah, but I want to, but I don't have a six hundred grand in new my checking account, whereas I'm telling you, this Raiders thing is nuts.

This is the year that they moved to Las Vegas and these guys are going to be in a rental condos about two blocks from casinos and strip clubs and they are forbidden to go. They will get fined or I don't know what they're going to do to them, but they're going to get narking, going to get go. So I would say I think real world actually seven strangers living in a house have it easier. I think you're probably right. There's no lose.

Yeah. By the way, speaking of Vanessa, she was on the challenge this year. Yes. I mean, this is somebody you were on the road with, you know, in the nineties. And I wasn't thinking it out. She still was. Wow. She still does it.

I guess she's a lifer. She's an awesome girl, huge Eagles fan to tie it to sports. And I'll never remember I'll never forget the first night ever in the Real World House. This is in two thousand one. I'm just getting my bearings and its cameras and she's kind of hot. And that guy feels this way. And I walked into the bathroom and she was fully naked, like not just boxers or underwear, full, stark naked. And I go, whoa, whoa, whoa.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. She goes, hey, listen, this is how it's going to be. And she goes, Look, it's just titties and it's fine. And I like if that's how you get down, like this is going to be a wild for months because it wasn't just what she said, it was the full Monty. Right.

Well, she's she's still cranking out. I think it takes a special DNA chromosome to be on reality TV for twenty straight years, basically, or eight straight years, whatever. This is because Johnny Bananas is like this, these people that at some point I mean, you're there for four months.

Did you ever get used to the cameras following you around from whatever you're doing? We're got to be weird, right? Totally. It's unbelievably weird. And let's be honest, in 2001, they were this giant forty pounds, shoulder mounted cameras. It's there's nothing smart about it. There was night vision cameras. So, I mean, like, when I got off that experience, I was so stressed out I had lost twenty pounds. I couldn't eat anything.

I was had so much anxiety about everything I was saying. I didn't have the talent Bill. Like I didn't the force was not strong with me as pertains to reality shows, which is I never did the challenge or any of that. Some people feel at home when they're in the coed shower and the cameras are there. So they love it. I just I didn't have it. It was too stressful. I wish you had had the one challenge under your belt, though.

I know. I think about it tonight. I kind of do. Here's the thing. Every time, every every once while I still get the itch. Twenty years later, you know, I could go down to Cabo and maybe win a jet ski or something.

Why not? I'm forty one years old. I give it a shot and then, you know, talk to me out of it. I see the promo and it's like this season on the challenge, dudes just shredded out of their mind all HGH and we're in. Bandannas and there's there's triple kisses and body shots, and I have a six year old I've done my real world days are long gone. That takes me out of just one problem and I'm out.

Yeah, sometimes the married guys come back and they're just kind of amused by the goings on. But about two weeks in, they have a look on their face. Like when I do this, I listen. I've been open about it. I've lost my mind without sports. I watched a lot of challenge seasons and stuff on in the background. I'm used to doing work with games on just kind of, you know, and I wake up in the morning, I'll tape some NBA game from the night before doing emails that I'll have an NBA game on.

And that's just kind of what I did. And if it was a Red Sox game, whatever. But now there's no sports. So the challenge became kind of my sport, substitute the backgrounds, just bang out all the seasons. And it's the same kind of themes every time. But I got to say, it held the fort for me and now basketball's back.

So I'm ready to roll your study. But they got you from point A to point B, Bill, do you go do you prefer more retro? We're looking at Ruthe and some of the legends and back in the Old City seasons or even earlier, or are you more of the modern crowd? This maybe a little more dominant? I don't know.

No, I like the late the mid to late 2000s through about fourteen fifteen, which I think was the sweet spot. It's funny, though, every year because Amazon has this thing called MTV hits and I swear they're not sponsoring it or anything. I'm just seven bucks a month and you could just get you get like twenty five challenge seasons. So the old days in the 05 06, you can tell like they didn't really realize it was going to be a thing yet because the shows were like a half hour.

The challenges would be like, I bet you can't lift twenty watermelons, you know, shit like that.

And then eventually somewhere around 2008, some light bulb went off and all of a sudden, you know, the, the intro with the credits became this heavily produced awesome thing.

The show is an hour the challenges, they're climbing mountains and I don't know, I don't know when the light bulb went off and it was like, let's just have people in bikinis, like rubbing oil on each other as a challenge to this is now like the triathlon. I don't know what happened. I don't know either.

I know that in the real world, this series changed right after our season when they went to Las Vegas is when it really became just about sex, sex, sex, sex. But for the challenge, it did they did go from playing clubs to arenas really fast. I remember there was a season where it was called Battle of the Sexes. And I'm going to put this in about maybe three. And I remember because Puck spit on somebody and Puck, like, spit in somebody's face and they're going to kick back off of it.

And my girlfriend at the time was one of the cast members. So I had like she was like emailing me from here and saying, you will not believe what goes on here. It's way crazier than they show on the air. All the best stuff is off the air. And now I think they just said not at all. Then we're putting that stuff on the air. There's no behind the scenes stuff. And then it just took off.

And it's crazy all year. We've talked about this before, but your real world season was the first ever season with bedroom cameras in the corners of the ceiling, which is now become a one of the great innovations of the 21st century. For all reality TV, it's it's hard to imagine reality TV without these giant surveillance cameras just looking on, which is a whole other level of being invaded. Right. It's it's bad enough to just have the camera crew there, but now it's like you're in a bunk bed and there's some camera just watching every single thing you're doing.

It's the those things are the sliced bread of reality TV. And it's worse than you think, Bill, because there's so many secrets when you get in the House where they don't tell you. All right, here's the deal. Now, we put cameras here. Just FYI, there's a camera over your bed. They don't want you to know anything.

And I remember I was lying in bed one night and you have to share the bed with like three other people. And one of the female cast members walked in and there's not even going on. She was just looking for something.

And I heard about my bed, like in the camera, zoomed in and switched on. And it was it was full of like spy equipment with, like, a little big brother. And not only do they monitor, they record the beds are miked.

I mean, it's all and this was and this was twenty years ago. I can't even imagine what they have now.

It's it's almost like Minority Report or something. Yes. Thank you, Tom Cruise whip and stuff all over the screen. So that's what it felt like. Colin Farrell and Tom Cruise trying to get me when I was just out of college was taught.

What do you think has replaced the real world in twenty, twenty four? Because you think that that show had a really significant hold on the culture, I'd say for about fifteen years. And they even let Johnny Bean in his was on a couple weeks ago. And he was saying how when he tried out for a real world, Key West, which was like five years after your season, the two hundred thousand people applied to be on the show. Yeah.

And then I remember the last ten years, it was it was gone. So do you think, like social media has made the real world impossible or what happened?

Well, they very choices. I think we'll remember the show was there was no elimination. There was no. Game there was there was no immunity, there was none of that. It was just seven people live in a house and they stopped being polite. There was no game. And so I think that the challenge became the superior product. And they're like, why would we bother the people sitting around reading? Because most of the real world is really boring, which means it's probably really hard to produce because you just sit around, read books and play pool all day.

There's no competition. I think it gave way to the challenge. And then I think The Bachelor really picked up the baton from real world because I'm like you, I was in college and you didn't miss an episode. And I remember Stephen and Irene and Seattle and the SLAPP and all that stuff was absolutely nuclear on our campus. But I think The Bachelor really took it. And I don't know how much longer they're going to have it, but they've had a good run.

I also think it maybe I'm maybe I'm overthinking this, but like when I was I was the same age as the railroad, basically. So all the people from ninety two to ninety six that was around their age. And it really did feel kind of real. Right. It was people who were in different situations, like I remember the railroad LSD and one of the dudes, the dude had like frosted tips. He was going to business school or accounting school or something.

And and there would be storylines where it's like he's got a big test tomorrow. Guys, can you keep it down?

I got a huge test. They would fall in the class now and then you come out of the class of like, I think I aced it. And this is like an actual actual like five minutes of the show. But it was the real world.

I think part of this, that that's happened probably late 20s on as the Internet became so much of a part of the real world for people in their teens and twenties. Right. Like they're just online all the time. How do you capture that in a show with seven people in a house who aren't allowed to go online, really have any sort of technology at all? It's actually the unreal world, because that's not what the real world is like. And I think that schism is probably one of the reasons it went sideways.

But do you think so, too?

I like I like the tease going in the commercial. Will he pass this big test tomorrow and everyone has to stay tuned and find out.

I am. There's also like there's a Blair Witch kind of factor to it after Blair. What's happened? All the found footage stuff was like, we know we get the formula a little bit and we're not that into it. And it's just it's it's everything out there now is it's so much more unbelievably salacious. If you look back at some of the big moments on the real world, we're in Miami. And Dan, I think his name was was on the stairs.

And he's just like, why did you look at this? And you see, I was there a terrible word and like, it was a huge fighting match. Now, like, that is doesn't even make the final cut of The Real Housewives that's on the floor. We can't even use that. It's just the volume has been turned way, way up. And it's just I don't know, it doesn't do it anymore. They because they've perfected the recipe to in the challenge.

And Batchelor's like this, too. They you have to have the party yet they have everybody out because they know stuff's going to happen. Right. Then you have everybody out in a van or a bus driving home from the bar at 2:00 in the morning. They're sloshed. It's like, well, we know what's going to happen here. Somebody is going to start yelling at somebody like they've perfected the recipe. The Bachelor, that first rose ceremony, when they all come out of the limos, they're still taping at like seven in the in the morning.

It's it's like a twelve hour event. And they're just pumping these girls with champagne who haven't eaten in three weeks because they're so excited to be on TV. They want to look as good as possible and they're all like lightheaded and out of their minds and then tense.

And they want to impress the back and they all like, go crazy.

But there's like a science to it. Oh, definitely.

I love when they leave the rose ceremony and they go outside to cry and it's fully light outside. It's not even like five a.m. it's it's like ten, fifteen a.m. It's like what have they been doing there for twelve hours except drinking, not eating and checking their instead. So we didn't have that formula. People have asked me for twenty years on real world. Did they make you say stuff. Did they set you in scenarios. No, nothing. They didn't plant with alcohol.

They didn't do any of that stuff. It was truly supposed to be a documentary and now you could never do that.

You have to put them in situations. There's no way. Did you ever think of going for The Bachelor? You were done after the real world.

You know, when I was about 25, I was approached by someone who was in casting casually, it's not like I was made an offer or anything like that. But she said at the time I was on these were lives, you know, and so that's a really easy sell job for The Bachelor, the soap star. It's super corny, super wonky, you know. How many times do they have the prince or the pilot? I would have been the soap star.

And it was like a 10 second conversation because there's one thing to go on there and try to date someone. I just I've always felt marriage was really sacred and I came from divorced parents. And so my goal in life was to have a good, strong marriage. And there was no way I was sitting there having the conversation with Neil Lane and getting down on one knee on the mountaintop to Amber or whoever she was. The second was about marriage.

I was like, no, I'm out.

Yeah. If you want to have a normal marriage, The Bachelor is probably not the place to go to seek one out. It's interesting how some people when they do it. You know, like Jesse Palmer's like this kind of pretends it never happened. Now there's some people like this. Yeah, I'm not even acknowledging that, you know, and I think Jordan Rogers is probably going to be like that, too, now that he's becoming a real football guy.

Speaking of the Rogers family, also this 10 Questions podcast you're doing with us that we're all excited about. Great idea. Thank you. I always worry with certain ideas that they're better on paper. And then when you actually try to do them. It's not going to work for half of it works or whatever, but this one actually works. But see Ed Rogers on you spent two hours with Rogers. What was your takeaway? We haven't run the episode yet.

Obviously, it was while it was on a weekend. I was going to Friday night. And you're still in California and almost two hours. There was a lot of scotch. There was a lot of topics. And it was you just said, ask me anything like we got into really, really, really interesting shit. The first clip that went out from the show is just about him talking about the draft and how the second he got a text from his agent, the Packers didn't tell him there's going to quarterback his agent.

That and he immediately went and got the tequila bottle and just poured a huge thing, a tequila, which I think is like one of the most relatable things he's ever done, especially for people who are going through tough times right now. Like you've got you got a bad call about work and you immediately go to the bottle.

But he was just man, a little sad, I think, about that topic. But otherwise, Bill, you've talked to a bunch of times is pop culture is so good, is unbelievably intelligent, like he has that crazy recall of the third play and the second series of week six and twenty twelve. And we got into really interesting stuff. We talked about, you know, he doesn't really have a rival, I say Jordan, Magic and Bird and whoever made Peyton and Brady went on it for years, like, who's your rival?

And you know, he tried to say one that I thought was total bullshit. And then we kind of debated it reminded me. I remember when you had Eddie Vedder on and you asked them about what is the one song that really gets the crowd going? And he said his answer. And you go, what can I tell you? Mine, even though I'm not the band because I think I have a good answer. I told Rodgers, I'm like, Can I tell you who I think your rival is on the team in the league?

And we kind of debated it. And I think I was right. I think I was right. I would have said, it's Russell Wilson. I think it would have been accurate there, they played eight times there for and four against each other. Know famous playing games. Yeah, famous playoff games, the fail Mary always controversial, always weird. Rivalry doesn't mean you that you play a lot.

It means that one side wins sometimes one side wins the other and there's animosity. And I think there is that for two for both of them.

We talked, we talked a lot about Mahomes in the MA about dude. How are you going to keep up with these guys? I asked him, I said, there's that great scene, I think a really underrated scene and Happy Gilmore, where you see Shooter and he's out in the woods and he's trying to do the Happy Gilmore swing. It's actually a really humanizing moment for Magavern. I said, do you ever I picture you and your Matt Ryan and Roethlisberger, whoever out in the woods trying to do the no look pass?

We're trying to do what Lamar does just because you guys are the old guard and these guys are twenty three years old when in every piece you ever feel like that. And he kind of said no and then went into an absolute adoration session of everything they do. And how much how jealous is of Lamar's running ability? And it's just it's crazy that they're taking over the league and they're still babies. Well, it's been important for video games, too.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, my son is really into Madden and 2K, especially during the pandemic when there's nothing to do, and especially because he's somehow broken each of his feet now.

Oh, no, I'm sorry. What I just said, small bones that each one was football, one was skateboarding. But but he thinks all of these, like the only way to be a good quarterback now is to have this amazing escape ability, because when you play these video games, it's like dropped back to pass. Nothing's there or you're under pressure. Oh, I'll just do I'll just do a turn around, go around the end and run for 30 yards that with 40 speed.

So he looks at people like Brady and like the you know, the old school, Peyton Manning, things like those guys are too slow and they don't fit my scouting profile. I like I like fast quarterbacks. But I also that's probably where the league is going. I think even Belichick in that is not the typical you know, he's not like Lamar, but in his own way is such a great athlete. I think Belichick is super excited just to have a quarterback who's not like I am dropping back five steps.

I'm going to decide and do my quick looks and I'm throwing the ball the way I've done things there. That's our offense. And was like, fuck that.

Other said, if I can't do it, it's got to be it's can you imagine? Brady had a wonderful, wonderful marriage and the buried many children in bountiful marriage. Yeah, but the divorce happens and then you just want to get someone, at least I'm told, whose life is different from your wife as possible. You know, if Brady was this beautiful blonde and he went and bought himself a much younger brunette who does different things like, wow, you're into that, like that must be exciting for Bill after all these years.

I love how you just casually threw in the at least I'm told, just in case there are any lawyers or if your wife was like, wait, why are you thinking about complete opposite, right?

No, no. At least I'm told it's more like my wife is is upstairs like we are not sure of. Chris Noth is in the last scene of Castaway and my wife is upstairs listening. But Bill, I want to present you with something. I know you're thrilled to be on it. Now, the ten questions show that we're doing on the Ringer is it's fun because it's competitive and you leave the show with a score. And I have ten questions for every single guest trivia related, somehow tangentially connected to them.

And they get nervous and they get intense and they want to compete against the competitors. So I thought if you would, we would just do a small example of what the shows like. I have two questions for you. Would you indulge?

So how how do you decide what the scores.

I gave them a trivia question. One of the ten, if they get it right, they get the point. If they get it wrong, they don't get the point. And then on the follow up, we have real substantive conversation about how it connects to their life. OK, let's try it. So I got to do to Bill Simmons two questions. Here we go. Question number one, Bill, your category is Michael Jordan. In the last dance documentary, MJ in a moderate shot are driving to the United Center talking about basketball mortality between himself and Patrick Ewing.

What was MJ's license plate? See, that's how they react to it. I remember it when I remember seeing it. Yep.

Damn it. Was it Jumpman? Is that your final answer? Yeah, I can't remember. I want to say something like that, though. Michael Jordan's license plate was to Trey, to Trey, which had to be so far down on the list of license plates he was interested in, like the 16th option and they went with to Trey.

No one's ever referred to Jordan as to try to spell it t w o t r e y to Trey. Wow, 20. So you did not get that one, bill, and then this is one pray, that's too bad. I then I don't remember. I thought I remembered it, but I've decided.

So now be connected to you. And, Bill, I would ask you, have you ever been a vanity plate guy like when you were in high school? Did you have like chief double zero or something like that?

Could you ever have done so? One time I did it, I got I got it as a joke. When I was in high school and then it just kind of came, it was BS Simmons with a Z, though. Oh my gosh, yeah. Yeah. And the joke that was like to make your friends laugh, he's got a funny I just thought it was funny, but then people are like, hey be.

And I think I got rid of it within a year.

What kind of car was it on. That was I think it was one of those cheap Wagoneer cars that they had with a Z on the Wagoneer.

What color? I think I probably like Brown with a little, um. Yeah, like one of those brown mid, late 80s, you know, whiskey backwards in the Wagoneer most often.

I think it has CDPR oh, yeah, by eighty seven, eighty eight range, there is some CD player acts pretty sure OK I don't I'm the worst person for this because I can't remember anything that happens to me.

I remember sports stuff, but like when we were I was on a Zoome call with my college friends about two weeks ago. And we remember in this one trip when when we broadcast the CNN Holy Cross basketball game, we were driving back and it was an ice storm. And my memory of the trip, I merged this other trip into the trip and it became this trip that had the two different memories in it. And my buddy Jacko, who has an amazing memory for every single thing that ever happened, is like, no, no.

That was the trip when we had to pull over in the MassPike. And you and Sully got out before I did. And I was stuck in the car with the driver. And you guys went and you met Franco. Frank, there's this toll booth operator named Franco. And it's like you got Franco and then you sent for help. And I just couldn't I had merged it with another trip.

So my point is that bad memory in that zoom session was your screen name B Simmons with a Z? No.

Is that it was B.S.. All right. So last follow up then. This is the last question I talked about the last dance in the question. Can you settle this? I consider you one of the NBA Supreme Court justices. Like if they formed one, you'd be on it. I do. Which which justice am I?

Well, I think Ruth Bader Ginsburg, that'd be more like maybe he'll be Brown or someone from the older guard.

I'm not going to say Clarence. That's the chief joke.

So we both went to Holy Cross. So I thought, that's the easiest one.

OK, then then then you're Clarence Thomas. Is that what it is? I don't know.

But he's conservative, though. I feel like I would be on the more liberal one because I'm always trying to, like, blow up the Basketball Hall of Fame and stuff like that. I think I'd be one of the more radical judges. Well, let's see. I mean, whatever the radical answer this is, this is a positional thing. This is almost like a political question. In the last dance.

There's a big to do about the Bulls next series of the nineties. Of course, my question to you, I want to know you're a definitive ruling on did John Starks dunk on Michael Jordan? The answer is no. Tell me more the. Jordan was dunk adjacent, but it was not a dunk over him like Jordan dunked on Patrick Ewing, the famous baseline dunk, when he seemed like he was bringing it back and then whirled around and dunked on his head.

That is a dunk on somebody. Yes, the famous Tom Chambers to hand dunk when somebody and the Suns and he vaults and it seems like he's like superhuman. That's a dunk on somebody. This was dunk adjacent, which I think is is different and depending on the camera angle, can seem like you got dunked on. But I don't think he did.

I'm so thrilled that you said that because when they did that part of the last dance they have Sue Bird, come on, who knows everything about basketball and grew up a Knicks fan. And she says, My favorite memory of a Knicks fan is when John Starks dunked on Michael Jordan. Nobody. And I'm like, in my opinion. So I think he dumped on Horace Grant. And as Bill now says, he was dunking Jason. But for that whole era of Knicks fans, that moment is all they have.

That's there's the shittiest continental belt ever is what they have in my barbershop here. It's called Jacques's Barbershop. I live right now not far from where you grew up. They have this huge poster and they're all sports fans of John Starks. And it just says the dunk. You're like in a series that they lost and he's sort of maybe was in the neighborhood of Jordan. That's the dunk. I'm glad to hear you feel his dunks.

The Jason Knicks fans are losers, and it takes one to know one in this case because they're very reminiscent of Red Sox fans pre 2004, of which I am one where completely overrated, our own significance and impact created rivalries that weren't rivalries.

They were just one sided feuds that we lost like the Red Sox. I remember writing a column about this for page two and like, oh, two or three about the Red Sox Yankees rivalry. And it's like this isn't a rivalry. They beat us every time a rivalry is when each side wins every once in a while. This is like they've beaten us for 80 plus years with the Knicks fans.

Really, all they have to hold onto is that players love playing at MSG and that when MSG was rocking and rolling, there's nothing like it. And then they list these two teams that played in the nineteen sixty nine 70 season. When I was an infant, you were, you know, ten years from being born and the seventy three season and that's really it. And then it's like they had one Bernard King season, they had a couple of young years that by the way those teams weren't fun to watch, nobody enjoyed watching those Knicks teams.

And then they had the weird lockout season. Ninety nine Knicks, they made the second round with Carmelo. But it's like the real Knicks fans, like the Knicks fans are like, our team sucks. It's this goes back, you know, way further than Dolan. But I remember when I spent time with Bill Russell in 2012, we were there with two days with him basically. And the Knicks have come up and he would just start laughing. He was like, we killed them.

They were a joke. They were like they were they were like the league doormat. We just destroyed them. So anyway, I think they try to overrate these John Starks moments and you know, how close they came. And if only Charles Smith hadn't been blocked four times, if only Starks had won in the game seven, it's like, yeah, but that's why you weren't going to win the title, because you were you, Charles Smith. And the biggest moment of your season, you're John Starks, the biggest moment of your season.

Like that's why you didn't win the title.

So anyway, into my next rant, I still think Charles Smith is under that basket at night, just still trying to put up laps and dunks. And he's still the janitor comes over and blocks them and then the night watchman blocks him. He's still there to me. Not only one of the most satisfying moments as the Bulls fan, but one of the truly hilarious athletic failure moments from the last thirty years that you can't get that bucket in.

There's one undeniable foul, apparently. I think it's like the third one. Down lower.

Up high. I can't remember blocking them, apparently there's a camera angle and I've never seen it where it's like indisputably he's hacked, but, you know, he's got people all around him. The refs are blocked with their sight lines and it's the end of the game. They're going to probably 10 to let stuff go anyway. But he also, Jordan and Pippen are two of the five greatest athletes who have ever played defense in a situation like that. Right.

It would be those two guys, Kawhi Leonard, Dennis Rodman, Andre Andre Iguodala, maybe. And then, you know, you go big or you go Bill Russell. But I'm just talking about, like perimeter athletes having those two guys there just be like we're not letting you score. Like, that's a nightmare. It was like having Mardi Gianetti and Shawn Michaels in their prime at the same time. Oh, yeah, I would say like I would say like Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair and their primary.

You're right. Like almost because genetically my colleague. Yeah, Gianetti.

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All right, question two, we promise two questions. Bill, you did not get the question. Michael Jordan, right? His vanity plate was to Trey, but your next category is alcohol. Here we go. I met you, Bill Simmons, at an ESPN Super Bowl party in 2008. We were standing around with a group of friends doing a lot of real world talk. I said to the group, I'm going to the bar. Does anybody need a drink?

You said, sure. Can I get a. What drink did you order and remember, this is not about remembering it, it's more thinking about yourself in 2008 and what you would have had at that party. So it's a great question. So all through the 90s, I was a jack and Coke bottle until somebody pointed out when you have like eight to 12 Jack and Cokes and smoke eight cigarettes, you're probably going to be wired when you try to fall asleep.

And it's like, oh, that's a good point. So at some point, I moved to Red Bull and vodka and then eventually vodka soda. Mm hmm. So I think my late 20s, I was probably I'd probably realized the wisdom of being older and doing a vodka soda. So I'm going to say I asked for a kettle one and soda with the lime. The answer is the drink you asked me for, which I got you asked me for a tequila on the rocks.

Yeah.

Does that ring a bell? Yes, because that was during that stage when? Because tequila was another one where, you know. No, no, no other mixers in there clean. You can have ten of them. You don't get like the sugar hangover for all the other stuff. So yeah, that would have been my other guests, man. I went over to another.

Yeah, you did. Well, but I can't tell you now. I'm kind of still in that no chaser. I mean, no mixer if I'm doing cocktails, something where I could just have a bunch of them but not have all the other shit that I've never been one of those.

You're at the bar and you order like the twenty dollar cocktail with, like the six things in it. Sure. I've never, ever like that. So I'm I'm always like usually tequila and soda, vodka and soda, and that's it. So the connective tissue here to the question, for example, when I would ask Aaron Rodgers a trivia question about Lord of the Rings four, which is a huge fan, we talk about Lord of the Rings the second, then I get into the idea that he only has one ring and how does he feel about that?

And he's pretty passionate about it for you. I'm asking about me meeting you in two thousand eight. I've told you a bunch of times that I read you for years and you were a big inspiration for me.

And I love that Conan O'Brien talks a lot about that. He gets approached by fanboys and they'll often ask them about him writing the Marge versus the monorails assistance episode that like, people love that and he gets asked about it constantly. Do you have an old column or anything you wrote back in the day that people still approach you about are like, oh, man, I remember reading that one that blew my mind. Is there one that really jumps out?

No, it can't, because I wrote so many different types of columns, it would kind of depend on the person, like definitely when I was younger, a lot of people would bring up the biggest stuff because I would always write about Vegas and guys trips to Vegas, stuff like that. If it was a Red Sox fan always, it would immediately go on a Red Sox if it was somebody I love, sports movies that would do the sports movie stuff.

NBA draft IRI's, I think was a big probably at all the columns, I think from the twins. I would say the atrocious GM summit was probably the one that got brought up the most because people just really like that one for whatever reason. And I think for probably this decade, the the one, you know, because I'm older, I was a little more sentimental, but the one I wrote about when I went back to see LeBron, when he beat the Celtics, but it was the same time when we had King season tickets and my daughter, we went to the game and she thought they were going to win the Stanley Cup, but they lost.

And she was so upset in the car after. And it was like our first tough loss. So it was like a calm about tough losses. But it seemed like that that hit a lot of people. We have no let's go. And it was usually the Vegas stuff, which is funny because nobody would ever rate those kind of Vegas things anymore. I was even thinking about that with the when we did the swingers, we watch balls and how much fun that era was from like ninety six to twenty five, just when Vegas was still a little bit underground.

And I just kind of went there with your buddies and that was it.

And you drive, which is you know, the stuff you guys were saying on that episode that you watch was about driving to Vegas. It's it's one of the most overrated ideas in history, especially the drive back in the south where most people just you cannot win does. It's terrible.

Well, you know what? One of the best ideas I came up with, I think, was the one hundred and fifty minute rule, which is nothing should ever be longer than one hundred and fifty minutes, anything. So movies, a sporting event, a drive, dinner. Once you once you get to one hundred and fifty one minutes, it's it, it just goes sideways and the Vegas drive is four hours conservatively, you know. And sometimes I forget the four and a half.

Wow. It's, it's from L.A. It's like I don't know, two hundred and eighty miles. Two hundred and eighty miles. Something like that.

No but why is it one hundred and fifty minutes. Because I think it's the right it's the right thing for for a sporting event. Right, football's probably the only exception, but let's face it, football could easily have two, two and a half hour games. They just choose to add an extra 30 minutes of whatever basketball it's the sweet spot is like 20 somewhere in there. Baseball, if it's a crisp to 30 year, like, delighted.

That's like the you had a great time. I used to love Tim Wakefield for that reason. But I think that's one of the reasons people drifted to soccer with the two hour games and soccer where it's just like you kind of know at the beginning middle and is. But like with movies, if you're going over two and a half hours in a movie, you better you better be like The Godfather, you know, anything other than that. It's it just doesn't work.

One of your recurring comments, I think, on the watch of those, which I think is accurate, is you said, you know, they could have sliced the quick 20 minutes off this movie. I don't think anybody would have missed it. And it's usually it's usually the truth about your columns.

I remember my columns were it was too long. So it's funny that I'm criticizing length that I was probably one of the biggest defenders.

So I have nothing to say that there is there is an irony there that you like just getting warmed up at about twenty five hundred words. Yeah. The one I'm talking about I remember well I think it was one and you did a column where you compared each I think it was NBA team to a Pearl Jam lyric. And I remember reading it and being like you can do that like crazy.

That's the coolest thing ever. And then that was like the one that did it for me as my first hit. And that brings us here.

When I had my old site, I was I was looking for any sort of way to stand out because I was by myself. You had to come to me. So if I was going to do an awards column or like, you know, here, here's my Super Bowl review, I just wanted to make it seem different than anyone. So I was always trying to come up with some idea and half of them worked, half of them didn't. But I think the cool thing about back then was you could try stuff and if it didn't work, you just moved on to the next thing.

I think one of the things one of the things that worries me now about writing, like really worries me is that nobody trash it anymore. Nobody takes chances. Everybody just writes pieces in the same kind of style as everybody else because they try some gimmick or whatever and it doesn't work. Then people make fun of them on Twitter and their feelings get hurt. So I think that early the late 90s were kind of innocent because it was like, oh yeah, I wrote this thing.

I get some emails, but that sucked. Don't do that again. I'm like, I don't won't do it again. And you just kind of move on to the next idea.

It makes me think of what you said at the beginning about sometimes ideas look really good on paper for pods or whatever, and then in practice they don't work because as you know, you and I talk about this for a while, that the pod that I'm doing now is different. Like it is not the standard format where you just chitchat, chat and maybe have a guest on like it's a whole game and it's heavily produced. And I don't know, I hope people like it.

It's different. And Rodgers liked it a lot. And we had another star quarterback. Come on. We had another first team all pro and we had an Avenger and they all seem to really like it.

I'm psyched for it. Everybody's pumped, by the way, we met in 08. Yeah, I think that was like one of the most disappointing weekends of my life was that Arizona 100 percent was the Patriots Giants won. Yeah, I took my dad because it was his sixtieth birthday, so we had this whole trip to the Super Bowl, we'd never been together. He'd been I had been, but we'd never been together. And and and we were going to watch the Patriots go 19 and know it's going to be awesome.

And that Friday, we're at a bar in Scottsdale. In the afternoon, we're having drinks. We're just talking about the game. We're so excited. And I looked up on the TV and I'm like, it looks like the Lakers made a trade. I remember like squinting to see what it was. I think that said, Pau Gasol and I went over the TV and and they listed what the Pau Gasol trade was. And it was like Lakers get Pau Gasol for a bag of shit and two sticks.

And it's just like the World Trade.

And and I'm looking at it and then I'm standing there. Remember, the ticker would take like five minutes for the tape. So I'm just like, hold on, I that can't be the whole trade. I'm just waiting. And then it comes back and it's like Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, a first round pick. And we went back to the table and we were like, what the fuck? How do they get out? And it just kind of set the tone for the weekend.

It was this great weekend. The Celtics were title favorites. The Red Sox had just won the World Series. The Patriots are about to go. They did it all. And then everything just kind of led to the Tyree catch, which.

I could still see there. What was that like, you're standing next to that and you're like, who the hell is the court? That thing he sacked? Oh, my God. No, he's not like, what was it like?

Well, we took a picture which I put in the column with at the two minute warning on the scoreboard behind us with our arms around each other. We got to commemorate this because we're about to win.

And it's fucking Eli Manning. He's not going to pull it off now. And then he threw he threw Samuel an interception, which Samuel mistimed the jump game's over, played out as his job correctly. And then that that they had another it was like a fourth and one. And they kind of quick snapped it, did a running play. And then and then that crazy play where it was like he seemed like he got sacked nine times and then he just just flings it up.

And it just didn't seem like terracotta, it was a God that definitely hit the ground and then the refs doing this thing with this, it was like, wait, what's going on? And but was the greatest thing about that Patriots team, though. I think there was like 30 seconds left and I really felt like we're going to whizzo. I was like, this is enough time Brady's going to hit moss, and then in that I think it was third down, Brady rolls out to the right, plants his feet and he throws it like seventy five yards to moss.

And Moss is like, it's still the greatest thing I've ever seen in person. It's him running full speed, you know, him and U.S. both. Those are the only two things I could think of because I say Usain Bolt at the Olympics and Moss just going to guys around him is outrunning them and he jumps for the ball. The is like a tiny bit behind them. And if it had been like one yard further, he just catches it in stride for the seventy five yard game winning Super Bowl touchdown, which would have been the greatest football moment of all time.

Right. I remember that play vividly. And Bill, tell me I'm wrong. My take away from that play was just feel like Randy could have done a little more. I never feel like Randy.

His whole thing is I most people I jump up over them and take the ball and it always felt like he was in fourth gear. Randy Moss.

And I just feel like he should have had a LeBron blocks Iguodala at the height of his powers moment and a great play ever. And I feel like it's a great point. I'm with you. I'm with you, I think. It left me a little lacking, but at the same time, it felt like he was running at a speed that I had never seen before. But when the ball was actually there, it was like. He just kind of jumped up for it, but it wasn't like, I am fucking getting this, this is going to be the greatest play of my life.

He kind of handled it like every other play.

I never, ever heard him talk about it. I haven't either. I have no idea, but I think it's an unbelievably underrated moment in the Patriots empire because it's just all Tiree and it's all Plaxico. But if you knew that that was the single greatest receiving season ever from Randy Moss and no one could stop him, I just feel like he left it on the field a little bit.

Now didn't leave it on the field. The underrated moment of that play is Insider. I'm friends with Sean O'Hara, who was the Giants Center, have just worked with him a bunch. And he always says the unsung hero of that play. It's not Tyree and it's not Eli. It is the referee standing right behind Eli. If you watch the field level replay, he is so close to blowing his whistle and stopping the play for a sack and protecting the quarterback, he is shoulders actually tense up and you see his lungs filled with oxygen to blow the whistle.

Right doesn't. And he shows the poise and him blowing that whistle alters everything. So he's the unsung hero. Well, and that was right there in the air with a defensive lineman were starting to change how they reacted when they had a QB tied up, because I think at that place 15 years ago, they're just pounding, you know, grabbing Eli, bad thing and patting down or whatever. And it was there is a passivity to it. But I still that one, though, and I feel like the Giants had a better team like that day.

I thought they outplayed the Patriots. The Patriots had no running game when Sammy Morris went out that year. They just kind of never figured out that side of it. I think they were really worn out mentally. And the Giants overpowering the front for the other one is the one that bothers me because the pass the second. Yeah, because the Pats were a better team that year and they just screw that they screwed the game up and let the Giants hang around.

Gronk was hurt. I think of Gronk is healthy. They win that one pretty easily. But I think they should have lost that that twenty eight won. Like, I do think the Giants outplayed them.

It's weird because that game in 2008 was a sequel, not in the Super Bowl sense, but the game that they played in the regular season was really, really amazing. Game the game. And it's funny because Moss made the miracle play and he saved it. I feel like the Giants were better than them that day. And then Brady and Moss just put magic out of their ass and won the game. But if you were a Patriots fan, you must have been like, damn, those giants are actually pretty good the first eight, nine weeks of that 07 season.

That's still the best football team I've ever seen. And then injuries, some other stuff, like they were never kind of able to sustain it that way. But when when it was like Brady was just pulling Moss out of the garage, it was like this race car. He had never been behind before.

And he was just like, oh, my God, whoa, look at these gears and and just watch it. That was so thrilling. And I mean, I think Moss is the second best receiver I've ever seen. It's this is obviously the clear first. But to me, Moss is the clear second. I don't even know if that's a very controversial opinion. I think it's like rice, no question. Moss, no question. And then when you get to the next level, then you could have a bunch of guys and it could go a bunch of different ways.

But I think that's clearly the levels for that.

You know, I think Moss is unbelievable. I'm actually a really, really big fan of T.O. But anything you could say about T.O., any Moss fan could point to that same Patriots season and be like, what are you going to do about this? This is my trump card. It's funny we were saying about the early parts of that season when Moss was just dominate the most fun detail of it. And I know because you wrote about this was that I don't know, the Patriots would be up on the bills or something.

Thirty eight to seven. And they would always have the screw you touchdown at the end of the game. It was like Joaquin Phoenix was Bellatrix just doing the thumbs down, cut their head off and they would punch one in with full middle fingers with malice.

And it was so funny. I remember your column about it. That's exactly what it was. It was like now we've been you and now we're going to say, fuck you and then go get on the bus. They were bad dudes. Well, it's interesting because we've seen other teams and athletes do that where you kind of just have to embrace the villain at some point because at once Spygate happened and once the and and America was like, all right, fuck this team.

And the Patriots became Duke, basically, Belichick kind of owned it. You know, I think when LeBron was in that same situation, that first Miami Heat season, yeah, he tried to own it, but it wasn't him. I don't I don't think that was what his character was and all the stuff he was trying to do and like defiantly looking out in the crowd and it just kind of didn't fit who he was. I think for that Patriots team, they were all kind of like, yeah, fuck you, we're just going to win fifty to ten and enjoy this.

I remember in the finals, LeBron cut all this shit because I think it was he and Bosh, maybe they were they were mocking Dirk for like having his way or something. It was. Yeah. And they were like fake coffin. And it's like they're just being jerks. But jerks who didn't know how to be jerks, like it was just a ham handed attempt. Belichick had it down to a symphony and obviously that's the guy he was meant to be in.

Brady just kind of was the captain of the ship. But Belichick, like, I hate all of you. I hate the league. I'm going for ninety points and you try to do something about it. You know, he's pushing away camera people and he's stiffing referees. That was really Bill's last year. Yeah. The bummer for me with Belichick was losing a playoff game at home to Rex Ryan.

Like, that's the one where you just kind of look back and go, wow, Belichick lost to Sanchez and Rex Ryan. What happened? How did all that that transpire? It's unbelievable.

That club, the exclusive club of Wehbe, Brady and Belichick in Foxborough like Club Foxborough, the only people in there, Sanchez Flacco is in there. Yeah. And then just now, this last year, it's a tannahill. So it's a weird, weird group. It's not like, OK, Roethlisberger got us and then Phil Rivers or Aaron Rodgers, I guess, in the Super Bowl or something. But the only people have gone into Foxborough in the AFC, Sanchez, Flacco, we're both currently out of the league.

And then Ryan Tannehill. I'll tell you this, though, Flacco is just fucking awesome, that one that one year best ever.

Gote, unbelievable playoff run these lights out.

And that's happened before because I remember I don't know if you're old enough, so. Yeah, you're old enough to Mark Rypien had a year like that for the Red Horse. Yeah. And we were betting them all the time that season. And he just for one year he could just hit every deep throw and then it was gone. It just never happened again with him.

I remember well they ran into the Falcons in the playoff and this was the too legit to quit Deon Sanders Falcons who had just won in the Superdome. And there like this team has something special.

M.C. Hammer goes to their games and they wrap afterwards and they seem cool and everything. And they ran up against the RIP and Redskins and got destroyed in Mark Rypien. Could not miss this kind of this Dowi sort of guy. Not a real impressive physical specimen, but just for that January, he was Joe Montana.

It was while my buddy Jeff and I, because we used to bet together and we just had so many rip jokes, he said that giant head, he would take that helmet off. It was like this giant KAZUE helmet and it's just big noggin. And he just didn't look like a quarterback. You know, he looked like a villain in a movie or something.

A big back jersey, big hips. Now, it was like he had that idea that Kozko helmet on, but it's the Super Bowl champs.

That's Flacco is the last version of those kind of quarterbacks where it's just like just feeling a deep. You'll hit a couple of them, you might get a by. But it's kind of when you're going against it, it really makes you nervous for some reason. I hated going against Flacco on the Ravens. I always felt like either he was going to hit the deep pass is going to be incomplete or in there. And those are like the only three scenarios.

And you basically have a one in three chance of being happy. But like back in the old days, like Darrell Armonica was like that. That's I remember he used to read about him where he was just like drop back to pass and just throw downfield. And I was like, well, the other team catches it fine. It's like a punt, but I wish I would come back. I do, too, if Flaco would be kind of like he had punching power, as they would say, you know, like a boxer who loses the first seven rounds, like old George Foreman, who can barely drown and then all just is one punch.

And Michael Moore is unconscious on the canvas. That was Flacco. He was terrible for seventy five percent of the snaps. And it's checkdown this. But then Jacoby Jones is going to get loose once and Flacco is going to throw it three hundred yards and hit him and then they would just rip your heart up.

That was we could probably end on this on this topic. Most shameful pandemic. YouTube deep dives.

Mm hmm. I basically plowed through the entire heavyweight boxing catalogue of the 70s and 80s, like just to make like Earnie Shavers, Ron Lyle, Dwayne Bobic Kenora and think just going through, just watching the different knockouts and stuff. And so you mentioned Flacco and the guy who's down, you know, six rounds to one and then just lands the haymaker. But the entire division was like that for like 12 years. There is a guy, Mike Weaver, who basically wins the title like that, where he just he knocks out somebody in the 15th round out of nowhere.

His final record, I think his career record was like 33 and 18. And he was the champion for two years. But it was basically what you're describing. He's down there. He knocked him out.

Did you make it to the Tyson era in your YouTube bench now?

Because I've already done that, Tyson, like when they created YouTube, it was like, Tyson, you're going immediately to the old wrestling, to Tyson, to you know, there's as like an OG search. Yeah. Now I'm in their Earnie Shavers level of my YouTube relationship.

If you type in an old wrestler just for jollies on a Saturday night, if you've had a few tequilas and just because you like watching them, what name you type in a. I think that stuff, the early 80s Madison Square Garden stuff is really great. Yeah, because the crowd. Late 70s, early 80s, because it was always their biggest show, because the non-paper views back then in the crowd is like the greatest possible crowd you're ever going to hear in your life.

So, like, if you go and you put in that the boot camp match of Sergeant Slaughter and iron chic. The crowd is reacting like the Red Sox crowd in 2004 when, like Ortiz wins game five, like, I'm not kidding. People are jumping up and down and losing their minds. And that's just what wrestling was like for people. Even if you go back and you watch like some of the old Bruno Sammartino matches in their early 70s, which are terrible.

But the crowd is reacting like, you know, it's like like a Bulls crowd during the Jordan era, like that kind of level of passion. And you never know when that went away, huh?

Did you go do you ever in that crowd, did you go as a kid with your dad or something? I did. I went I went a few times MSG in Boston Garden. I saw some good times.

Yeah. What hardliners did you see? Well, so this was tough. I saw at MSG, I saw a Big John stud back when title match that had a certain ending. And then in Boston, same match like a month later, exact same ending, and I'm like, boy, that's weird, what a coincidence. I can't believe they just didn't realize what he did. The backbreaker that back. He's going to have to rope. You would have thought he would have learned that from New York, but never, never dawned on me that wrestling was was fake.

That's awesome. Yeah. Anyway, all right. This is fun. For a minute, I felt like I was on your podcast. We kind of did a host switch. If we could still hear you on Good Morning Football, right? Every single day on network. What are you guys talking about?

Do you just argue about the pandemic? Yeah, it sucks, it's it's not fun, which is why sometimes you get off a three hour show and then you tweet things that piss people off about the pandemic in the media because you sit every morning and talk about who's acting out today, who's going to say, I'm not going to play today, who has a sick parent or a baby at home and can't play football? It's sad because we try to make football fun, but it's stuff right now, you know.

Yeah, the Patriots, when people try to get this narrative that Belichick was like up to some sort of Belichick thing and it was like every single person that opted out of the season, there was a legitimate reason to do is Google it for. Two seconds, but everyone's like, what spell check up to he was going to get Trevor Lawrence by having all of his players opt out and take the season, go to three and 13 and then have like the next 15 years of his career.

I mean, it's it's a radical radical theory. But I mean, I laughed at it when I read it.

I got to say, there's a zero percent chance Bell checks ever taking a season. He will never do that. Unless unless, like, something like he like 40 of his guys opted out and he was like, all right, well, this is our only option. I have to do it this way. Otherwise, he cares too much about the career wins and all these different streaks proving that he can win without Brady, all that stuff, he's just not going to do it.

He's hitting the you know, the last stretch of his career here is that throwing a year away so he can go to and 14 and then maybe get a chance at Trevor Lawrence like, you know, if you're going to potentially get the number one pick if you do it.

I think even if he has 40 guys up, that he's still going to knuckle down, turn his rings around and just fight and somehow get that as well. Much too much ego. He's not going into the Hall of Fame like, oh, remember that year in twenty twenty that you went three and thirteen.

Hell no. Hell no.

I meant what are my favorite bets that I made the last few years was during the Brady four game suspension a.k.a. railroading some when that played the last game on Sunday night that Jimmy G got hurt. The Pats were underdogs. I think it was against the Texans.

Yeah, I remember it well. They played really well that night and they were underdogs.

And I was like, this is like on a fucking platter like this. Check this. This is why he wakes up in the mornings to have a game like this where people are like, oh, he has no chance if like OK, watch me win with Jacoby Brissett on National TV. I'm doing it right now. It was great.

And he and Josh McDaniels had Jacoby was running the option. They had all these creative things that they did with it and in a way it's maybe that's what they'll do with Cam this year. Oh my gosh, we got a new toy. I think they're so excited for Cam. I think last year, last year was so unsatisfying for everybody. And I think I think people have really underrated just Brady's quality of play. I just don't think he played well last year.

And I think he is becoming a quarterback who's hard to play with unless he has awesome weapons. But couldn't you say that about any quarterback like, well, he needs, you know, his older needs awesome weapons. It's like, well, every quarterback needs awesome weapons. Who's, like, cool, I don't need weapons. Just give me saver's. I'll be fine. I think it's it's Ellickson.

When you fall off your diet and you quit your diet, you don't eat salads, you go to Wendy's and give me six cheeseburgers. Let's go nuts. If you get out of a long term relationship and get a new girlfriend, you're going to break everything. I think that is a bill now. Like we can do everything. Let's line it up. Let's let our hair on fire. Let's have some fun.

I think it's going to be cool. Well, I hope we have football. I hope I hope you have stuff to talk about in your show. I look forward to watching your show on the Ringer podcast network. What day is it? August 17th. So August 12th. August 12th. It's coming up less than two weeks. Look out for that. Kyle Brandt, always good to see you.

Thanks for coming up, Bill. I'm going to keep rocking and rolling and making better films.

I'm going to bring in my daughter in one second, but I wanted to mention the podcast charts on Spotify because they launched them, they're really cool. More importantly to me. I have one of the top podcasts on the charts, so thank you for that. Thank you for spreading the word. Look, I'm biased, I fully admit it with Spotify because, you know, they bought the ringer. I was using the app well before we started seriously talking to them.

I just really like their podcast that I really do. I listen to it at one point, two speed, I got to say Fareway Relin with House and Nathan, one point two speed is really the sweet spot for that. But other ones, you kind of need the one point five bump. I like being able to to to decide my own speeds and also I just like navigating the app. I highly recommend it, but now they have charts.

So now I have a better idea of how you're doing to see what other podcasts made it on the charts other than mine. Go to the podcast sub to find the top in trending shows. And while you're at it, you know, give a couple of the other Ringham podcast lists and tap the banner to explore a top podcast charts right now. All right. We're going to bring in my daughter for a special miniature edition for reals. Find out what's going on with teen culture during the pandemic.

Here we go. All right, the pandemic stretches on, we have not had my daughter on to talk about teen culture, she's freaked out because I had bad facial hair going for a long time and I shaved it like an hour ago. And now you're just staring at me like I'm a new person.

Now it's just freaking me out because half of your face had been covered for like a month or maybe more than that was like two months, two months. And I haven't seen your bare face in two months. So it's a nice little change.

My face is on protest until basketball, but now it's back teen culture. We have a lot to cover. There's just a lot going on. The pandemic not only has affected the movie industry, sports, restaurants, everything, but also also the teens. But there's some good news. Last week, kissing Booth, too, came out. Oh, yeah, this was the equivalent of like the new Avengers movie coming out from normal people. Walk us through what happened.

OK, so in this new kissing booth, obviously, we left off with Ellen Noah saying goodbye at the airport as he was going off to Harvard.

Did we believe that? We believe we got into Harvard. He addressed that really fast. Go ahead, Noah. Getting into Harvard, a school that has, what, like a five percent accepted acceptance rate? Yeah. And he is just a kid who goes to a private school and probably plays a couple of sports and doesn't really come off as the smartest person. I don't think he's the best Harvard candidate. He didn't play he wasn't playing sports or however he was playing well.

He played football in high school. And that was like his thing. He was like the big Jocky guy. But it's like he didn't really come off as someone who would be going off to Harvard.

Well, bad news. He got kicked out of Harvard because they saw his euphoria stuff, said the same guy from Euphoria, right?

Yeah, I saw that show. They kicked him out. I haven't watched, you know, because I haven't watched for families. I'll let you watch when you turn twenty one Sunday night. So he goes off to Harvard, he goes off to Harvard and Ella's left. She's a senior now because he was a year above or junior whatever.

Her friends are giving her shit that he's going to go find a new girlfriend. Yeah. Basically, which by the way is and it's very true. So he finds another kind of interest and she's seeing all of his Internet like social media of him being around her. And she's kind of getting worried about this girl. And then she has another love interest who comes into play who basically looks like the same as Noah.

Who is this third guy? Marco. Yeah, Marco. Yeah. And he looks they look exactly the same, literally just well, maybe she has the type she maybe she does, but it's like. It's just he comes in, he's the new guy, right? Yeah, and he's like they kind of they dislike each other. That's the main thing here. Yeah. They don't really get along. But for some reason, he has interest towards L.

.

Well, that's usually what happens. People pretend they don't like each other, but they really deep down do like each other. Yeah. This is your brother's strategy with all women. But yeah, I agree.

But yeah. So they just have like a little flirty type of thing going on. You can tell he's kind of interested in her, but it's like a big brother little sister relationship or they're just constantly bashing each other whenever they're around each other. It's completely sarcastic. Yeah. So it's it's that let me guess. Will things change? Things do change. Don't spoil it. Did you like it or not? I loved the movie. I like it more than the first one.

The first one holds a special place in my heart. So that's like a difficult thing for me to decide. But I would say I really did enjoy it as I expected I would, because the kissing booth one was probably one of my favorite bad movies and this will probably be one of my favorite bad movies as well. Like, I would watch this ten times. Well, the critics do not like no, no one liked it. Well, here's the reason why they might not have liked it.

Many it's not a mini spoiler. It's like a mini spoilers. If you haven't seen it, you can just beware. I don't think we're spoiling it.

OK, movie here, guys, but l gets accepted into Harvard as well. Her and her best friend Li, they're trying to get into Berkeley. That's been the dream school since they were little. Their moms went to Berkeley and they've been talking about this this whole time.

But I want you to go back to but Noah, because he goes to Harvard, she decides why don't I apply there so I can be with Noah? So she applies to Harvard. She gets in to both Harvard and Berkeley, a girl who her only personality trait throughout the entire movie was playing Dance Dance Revolution at the pier.

Yeah, well, what are her credentials? What is she like? A genius, though?

She went to a private school and they didn't she didn't show off.

She was like a giant athlete. No, she played soccer and we both saw her soccer scene and kissing Booth one. Not very impressive. I don't think she would be getting into Harvard if this were in actual real life situation. Interesting. Very interesting. Well, it sounds ridiculous. It sounds terrible. And it sounds right in your wheelhouse. Yeah. This is like we've been plowing through a lot of the rom coms from the 90s. 2000s. Yeah.

2010s because all these streaming services have them and we have nothing to watch. It seems like just go with it. Is your favorite one about. I love that movie so much.

Drew Barrymore. Honestly, no, not your favorite. Jennifer Aniston. Adam Sandler, Jennifer Aniston.

I for one, she is like probably my favorite actress of all time next to Cameron Diaz. They're both high up there, but I love her. And then Adam Sandler. You can never go wrong. He's probably my favorite male actor.

Well, it's on it's on streaming services all over the place.

It's Simmons recommendation for fantasy. So it. All right. Let's talk about the tick tock universe because all hell broke loose during the pandemic. Yeah. Explain the the hype house falling apart. What happened here and what look, first of all, what was I passed and then why did it fall apart?

OK, so the hype house basically was a collective group of tech talkers who just grew and got a lot of fame. And then they decided, why don't we all join forces, buy a mansion and make take talks in this mansion, which is absolutely absurd. How many people are we talking about? It kind of a lot. Like five or ten. Yeah. So ten plus tech talkers in a mansion just making tech talk, making them tick tock videos that you like.

I think I wasn't really into the hype house, so I didn't know everything about it. But I'm sure not everyone lives there full time. Like a group probably lives there full time and then the rest just hang out there constantly. OK, so now covid happens, no more hype. Yes, they're still hanging out. People who are like who have fame and think that they're better than everyone else thinks that they're immune to the virus. Now, they're all in the past like they're all happening.

Yeah. And by the way, like a little offset of this, Jake. Paul, who we all know, very big guy. We all know his mistakes, everything he's made. He decided to have a party with, like a bunch of people around a thousand maybe in his mansion. And he got sued for like six million dollars.

Because it covid happened because of covid, because he decided to have a party with, like a lot of people could get spread or it's just somebody sued him. So I think they sued him because he was like not following the rules of the pandemic.

Well, he's that he's has a big fight next month. Oh, Nate Robinson on the undercard, everyone. I don't really understand, Paul.

It seems like he lost his mind. He is a little bit.

But, you know, Ben Simmons is carrying his lunchbox in facts, the hypos.

So the entire thing that happened, the entire controversy was that Chase Hudson, who was like probably I think he was the main creator of the hyperglycemic. He was the big guy. And then Charlie DeMille, we all know her. We all love her support.

Charlie, they were I don't know that is. But she sounds great. She she's like the biggest talker. She is 40 million plus followers. Jesus. Yeah. So they were kind of like the staple of the high palace and they ended up getting into a relationship, which he's like 18 now and I think she's 16. So little kind of weird. That's not totally legal. No, no, no. It wasn't before. I think he was 17.

She was 15 when they were dating. But like, would you be happy if I were dating a 17 year old? I'm not happy that you're dating a 16 year old, OK? Exactly.

So that's like a little weird and off putting already. But so they had their little relationship and like throughout the relationship, they had a bunch of these friends and other people were dating each other and basically little hottie whose Chase Hudson he got exposed for, like saying racial slurs.

And he also not only that, but there was another couple in the house, Josh Richards and Nessa Barrett. And they were they had a relationship. They were dating. And it was rumored that he had kissed NASA love triangle. Yeah, well, kind of more than a triangle love square. So they were like rumored they had this whole thing. And Charlie kind of didn't say anything on it, but he got exposed from that. And he told everybody that he had kissed her before the relationship.

But, you know, there was some blurred lines there. So probably wasn't before the relationship, probably while he was dating. And they might have both cheated on their significant other.

This sounds like your version. It's like a high school like drama. Well, I was going to say like nanotube and in the night. Yes, this is now like your version of tune out. Yeah. But so basically that whole thing happened. And then when he started getting exposed, people were bashing him on the Internet. He made this entire tweet, which I'm looking at right now. And basically it like it starts off with since all my drama has been put to the Internet for the world to judge me, let's lay out everyone else's, all of his friends in the hype.

He flamed everybody. And then he proceeds to say Anthony got with Cynthia a week after they broke up on tour. And then he just names like six of his friends in different lines, just very vague and saying exactly what they did wrong, like he cheated on Olivia and all this type of stuff. Just one line completely like drama filled, ruining their relationship. So it sounds like professional wrestling, almost.

So it's just it's just so I think the baggage that people had done. Yeah. So he is a bad guy. And then this broke up another relationship in the past just because he says, oh, oh, I know. But he ends his tweet after flaming about like six of his friends, he ends a tweet with an apology towards Charlie. For the supposed rumors of him kissing this up, it seemed so nice to apologize by flaming other people.

And so she obviously knew it was genuine. It just created entire like Internet explosion. And then a bunch of the boys who were mentioned in his tweet went over to his house and were like threatening to fight him. And they were just he basically was down and hung out in the high palace. You wouldn't come outside and they were sitting in the car ready to have a fight. So tick tock, tick, tick tock. Drama. Jesus, thank you.

Tick tock room for the update. So he canceled, what is it, a cancellation of Chase Chase Dawson, Chase Semigloss, Chase Hudson Chase known as Little Huddy, Océane Dawson, Shane Dawsons, the next little Harry. So little has got canceled, but he's in probation.

He's no one likes him now. It's like it's not a full canceling. I think he's done other things that would be worth canceling, but it's like he's just said, not even relevant anymore. Shane Dawson was canceled. You said? Yes, he's been canceled. He saw what happened. Why was he canceled? So because, first of all, tell people who Shane Dawson was. Because everyone knows who. Shane Dawson, the king of you, too.

OK, King. Sure. Yeah. So Shane Dawson, we all know him. He makes his short movie like series on YouTube. He does the conspiracy theories just YouTube since day one. He's been there since the beginning. So Shane Dawson has some had some videos resurfaced of him saying racial slurs, you know, like kind of he did blackface, like, terrible things like that. Shane. Yeah, I know. And he was like on the Internet.

And you shouldn't do that even off the Internet, but just stupid. And then. Oh, what a shame. Like, he's old. He's like mid thirties, I think. Jesus.

Yeah, but and then there were also some other videos resurfaced of him making like pedophilia and some jokes revolving around younger kids, not pedophilia.

But that's what that's what they called it, though.

Right. But so he was just. So he's out. He's out. A lot of people are really astonished that something like this could happen. And one of the great because. Well, yeah, obviously.

But his entire palate just came out and he's been riding on this high and now he's completely bashed and no one likes him.

Man Yeah, totally. Guys, tough time for Shane Dawson. Yeah. Don't do terrible, shitty stuff. You're going to come back to it, get you any other Tic-Tac stuff. Now, the biggest emerging star of the pandemic.

Anybody emerging star. Interesting. You said you have people here in L.A. that you you don't they're not friends of yours, but like friends of friends or just people in other schools.

The thing about tech talk is like anyone can get famous. It's kind of a platform where it's like open to anybody. Right. So there are people that I know or mutual friends with that do have like a really wide following. And that kind of just happens. And it's based off of your appearance, which kind of sucks for the most part of the people that I'm like aware of that have fame. But there are some, like, genuine funny take talkers that like make interesting videos.

Well, I'm so glad I don't like you embed to them. Yeah. Something you and do love is Hamilton. Oh, and it was on Disney. Plus this revolution of the year, this was like a year long thing and 15 and 16 with you two, you and your brother. And you were like we had to buy Revolutionary War outfits. You were performing entire songs. Yeah. And like everything else with Ben, he moved on to the next thing.

But this was like a year long, you know, the words everything really long phase. So anything goes on Disney plus your mom's away.

It's the three of us.

We start watching it and within like five minutes, they're slowly coming out of the shell, fucking embarrassed in the corner. It can barely even mouth the words because he doesn't want to get yelled at.

But then he just found it. Yeah. Now, both of you have been on another Hamilton big. Oh, it's back. It's back.

It's definitely in full force. And I've also seen that a lot of people because of this, who didn't have their Hamilton phase or never really got into it or couldn't even see the play, just didn't know about it that much. Everyone's getting into it now. That's like my entire for you pages. Just Hamilton and I kind of I love to see it because it deserves the recognition. When you saw it in New York, it wasn't the full original cast.

Right. There are some people that weren't there. Yeah.

I just wasn't lyin. I think that was. Yeah, but we had an amazing Hamilton.

I thought they did a really good job.

I did too because they apparently they recorded one with the audience.

Yeah. They recorded some of the laughing and the backing track and they said that it was nice. Yeah. Like when the king the spic came out of his mouth. Yeah.

Everybody was a huge thing on tape that everyone's talking about. It is hilarious.

Who do you think was the MVP of the Hamilton movie Hamilton. I love George Washington so much. I think his voice is just incredible.

I like you love David. I think he's I think he's so talented. He is. He's really great.

There's there's not one untalented person in that cast. Like everyone is just incredible. The woman. Really stood out in the movie. Yeah, they're just so good, but but like that. Yeah, she was great. All right, Siesta Key is next.

Oh my God. We all know My Fond Love for Siesta is your favorite show.

It's really the only throwback show on MTV to the old era of shows like this, like the hills, things like that. It was built around this douchebag named Alex who quote unquote, on Siesta Keys to his own siesta key.

And he's had a relationship with every girl and siesta key. He has a huge boat and a big house and his dad runs Siesta Key.

Yeah, well, allegedly, Alex made the mistake of saying a lot of terrible racial stuff. Yeah, that's the media right before the Season three premiere. And they had to basically edit him out even though he was amongst the plots.

So you watch the show, Alex, is the plot. That's the thing. And then we haven't seen his face once. He's in a love triangle where he impregnated his girlfriend while he was also hooking up with his old girlfriend. Yeah. And then he also runs the place where Chloe, who's the star of the show now. Yeah. Which honestly so they have to edit out all the scenes.

The only way I could describe it to people out there would be like. I don't know if they if they made Beverly Hills cop, but they had to edit out all of Eddie Murphy's scenes and just show like the back of his head, they're like they're having like the the the reveal for what sex the baby is, what the gender of the show is. I can't show Alex, even though it's at his house with his family and it's his baby.

I don't understand. I get I get, like, the sensitivity and all that stuff, but like and that's much appreciated that.

But you're raising him out of the show. But then he's still in all the plots. So it's like, what's the point of not showing up on the show? And he's in all of the show or don't do the show. That's my thing. It's like if you're going to cancel it, cancel it, you're not going to cancel it. Just put disclaimers. Yeah. Just say like, hey, Alex is a huge asshole. He said all this stuff, but we already filmed it.

So here's the show.

Yeah, I feel like that honestly would have been a lot better just because every episode revolved around Alex and the things that he's doing. But we barely even know what he's doing because we can't see him.

It's ruined the show, which is honestly so heartbreaking for me because you like my fear. It's my favorite TV show. Well, we had Khloe try to step it up. All she does is have lunch with people and find their relationships and everything started fine.

She's mad about it. Khloe is the queen. We stand Khloe. We think there is a opportunity for a a new show, maybe in a different location, but the same kind of principle where you have like the seven or eight people that really Twyning I why wouldn't they go back to California?

I guess in the pandemic you can't do it.

I love Shibasaki, though. You just like being in Siesta Key.

Yeah, because I'm someone who likes to travel throughout the TV that I watch because especially because we can't leave our house right now. You're a visual traveler. Yeah. So it's nice to actually get to feel like you're on vacation with them. Right. I like that part. Maybe like a Hawaiian siesta key spin off.

Well they had that show for. Yeah. I wonder if that it was called Northshore.

It was awesome. I you loved it. No way. I find that we'll find you should find that Taylor Swift album. See. OK, so we've had mixed feelings about Taylor Swift. I loved her when she was country. Yeah. She was the best. That was my favorite music of all time. And then when she kind of became pop and that was her thing, I kind of fell off. But I listen to this album and I really like it.

I like the vibe that it gives. It's like she's not trying too hard to be like a Billy or she's not trying to be an Ariana Grande day. She's just being Taylor Swift. And it's like authentically herself.

And I really like it. You like the lyrics and stuff like songs.

They're really meaningful lyrics. And you don't find that very often, especially nowadays, when it's like rapping about boobs and stuff like that. Yeah, it's like she actually means what she's saying and that's what it's been like from the beginning. She writes her music and her music has always had a lot of meaning behind it. And that kind of got lost in her pop stage. And now I feel like she's embracing it again and it makes me really happy.

And I also like the vibe of her music in the way it sounds and stuff. So does the album list and check it out with their Billy owlish up they are Billy. I really haven't heard about her. She's been kind of quiet since she has been quiet. I think there's a big documentary coming out there that yeah, maybe.

I think she's so cool. I'll always love Billy Eilish. She also probably does want to get like involved with all this love drama going on right now, which is smart favorite you tubers right now.

Give us three, three or two bloggers.

I've honestly I've been really getting back into Amazon. Chamberlain she was an old one and now I'm back into your age. No, she's older. She's like eighteen or nineteen. She does the blogging, right? Yeah. And she makes videos too. She got almost she got canceled for a little bit. Oh yeah. Like an Instagram post. That was like she was. I don't know.

I feel like you could become a vlogger YouTube person only because you've never done anything in your life that would have gotten you canceled. There would be nothing. If you like skeleton free life, that'd I'd be boring.

Yeah, but you still have a. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe that's what makes people in the first place kind of want to be on because they're just throwing their opinions out. Sometimes those opinions are a little haywire. Yeah.

But I really like I'm a Shamblin. She's been keeping me company throughout quarantine which anybody else then I'm so I'm like a little bit embarrassed to say this. Actually, I'm not. I'm going to embrace it. I've been watching James Charles a little bit recently.

Oh, he's got a bit of a comeback. He got canceled for a hot minute, but his videos are actually interesting. And I like watching the make up that he does because I'm in no way talented within that region. So I like watching him do it. It is we didn't talk about it, tick tock, that old school tick tock versus like the author. Oh yeah, explain that really quick.

So there is this whole battle between Altig talk and straight talk. Talk, straight talk, talk.

But that's not a sex thing. It's no. Yeah, well kind of. Oh it is. OK, explain it straight in it. Straight tick tock is basically like the hype house. It's people like Noah Back who's probably like the heartthrob of tech talk right now. OK, but it's like no big Josh Richards. All those people like dancing around and trying to act flirty and that's like that's quote unquote straight tick talk videos like that or point of views.

Right, about like relationship, stuff like that. That's considered straight tech talk, but alt tech talk is like crazy. It's like videos of people putting animal or like people are putting bugs and syringes and then squeezing it. And it's like weird stuff like that. So it's like jackass. It's like a dark Internet version of tech talk. Oh no. Yeah, it's on Tic TAC. Yeah.

But it's like it's not it's not terrible things that they're doing, like murdering people. It's just weird.

I'm a little bit on ultrarich talk and I can't really explain it. Is it Benwood? Like I'll take talk but I bet he's on straight talk talk. But it's like this whole battle as people would be talking and your superior, if you're on alternate take talk and if you're on straight talk, then you're not.

This sounds like the dumbest thing. It is. It really is the dumbest thing I've ever done.

And I know people are going haywire, but you've had five months without that saccharomyces. Yeah, this is the longest I've ever not played a team sport. I know. It's very sad.

All you've been doing is working out and you're almost like it's like watching somebody in a prison movie who seems like you're like crazy AB exercises power, you know, you got to keep yourself busy and people are struggling.

This could be a full year without soccer.

Yeah, that that would be absolutely terrible. Imagine that. I don't know, they said used sports, so they're playing high school football in 37 of the 50 states, which I assume is going to fall apart because of how we have no solution to offer covid.

Yeah, what is that? Haven't they, like, released people out of prison because of covid? Yeah, I mean, they've done all kinds of stuff if they've done that, but they haven't like if they're talking about us going back to school. But it it came to the extent that they had to release people out of prison. I don't know.

Would you feel good about going back to school or now? I know that it would not be anywhere close to normal, like you would be super weird just having to wear masks and staying away from friends. It's not even school because the whole part of school that everyone loves and cherishes is like the sense of community and getting to be around your friends and just the social aspect, just doing the work. I feel like that's the same as virtual. Like being there won't really make a difference.

It's I think it's tougher for a little kids. You make your circle tight. You've tried not to hang around with people who you think might be out there hanging around with pictures of people.

I just I'm. I feel like. It's still the situation where people are inconsiderate and not really thinking about their family members or other people they can be affecting by seeing friends. So I've been trying to keep that in mind. And goody two shoes.

Oh, I don't know. I don't want you to. I don't know how I'm half responsible for how it was way more inconsiderate and selfish.

All right. So we could check you out on the Instagram, for reals is. Yep. But this is a good pandemic. Timecode SketchUp, I'm glad. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for inviting yourself. Forcing me to have you out. Good to see you. All right, thanks to Kyle Brandt, thanks to my daughter, thanks to the procreated, thanks to Buffalo Wild Wings, thanks to Spotify. Don't forget to check out their charts. We got a new rewash was coming on Monday.

We have our to see two. If you haven't subscribed to that already. We have a brand new show on the ring or NBA feed on Monday. And a couple more announcements as well. Man, basketball's back, it's all do it all weekend, and I will be back Sunday with our old friend Ryan Rossella. We are going to watch every game all weekend, and then we're going to do a long podcast about all of them. See that?