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I hope you that stuff from Thanksgiving, because I've got some news for you. I got Tony Romo talking football. I got Jim Miller talking. John Belushi, I've got million dollar pics. It's all next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer podcast network, where we launched a three three three new podcast over the last week. One, his recipe club with Dave Chang'e one is Gamblers, a new narrative series by Dave Hill and The Ringer Music Show with Charles Holmes.


I hope you had a chance to check all three of those out there are really good. Speaking of podcast, the watchable, as did eight millimeter for the holidays. It's a holiday movie, The Down Van Lathan and Chris Ryan, one of the most flawed re watchable I think we've ever done. But man, do I like it. And then a new book, a basketball podcast as well, Kevin Garnett, me and Jackie McMillan did that one.


So there you go. This is the last part of the week. I hope you are enjoying the little holiday stretch. I hope you're staying safe. Here's Birgit. All right, I've told this story before, but I knew this guy was going to be a great announcer when we had dinner once and you got up and started imitating different quarterbacks for me and Kimmel and Sal and I was like, this guy's got it. Since his career is over, it's another 40 years going, has it?


Tony Romo, has it been everything you thought it was going to be? You know, it has. I mean, I feel like. You know, it's kind of the unknown when you're done playing football, it's like, what are you going to do next? And, you know, I love the game because I like talking about it and analyzing it. And I studied it basically your whole life. So to be able to kind of keep doing it, that's obviously a huge positive.


And sometimes you get lucky and people may like a little bit of it and not everyone. But I think we did OK at some parts. How how many times have you gotten itchy to come back? Like, let's say you love gambling. I'll give you an over under over under four and a half times.


You got itchy over the first year. I promise that you want. But other than that, probably. Probably. You know, it's just life goes on. I got three boys, they're young and so and just be the dad and I got golf for the competitive side of it and announcing. So I kind of get, you know, competition is really what I love. And so I try another.


All right. So let's talk old quarterbacks, because you would technically be an old quarterback if you're still playing that. We're taping this on a Tuesday Brady last night against the Rams. This was the third time this season when a team that really actually the fourth time with a team that could really pressure him seem to discombobulated him. And it seems like there's two Tom Brady's at this point. One is the guy that if he has time, he looks like the old Tom Brady.


And then there's the other one, like the one we saw last night and a couple other times this season where it looks like it doesn't want to get hit. He's making throws that the Tom Brady of ten years ago didn't make before. And it just seems to me like it's pretty clear anyone that has a front seven that can make him uncomfortable is going to either beat the Bucs or come damn close. What do you see from afar?


Well, that's always been the case with any quarterback forever. And the only difference is, I mean, quarterbacks. I mean, you go back to Aaron Rodgers against the Forty Niners last year. You know, the front four can make it very uncomfortable. And guys who are amazing can look, you know, not at their best against those type of teams. Now, I would say with Brady that when you go into a new system. You have so many, like you built the system when he built for 20 years, basically, he built it, so he had all these things set in place for certain looks, certain blitz packages, certain pressure looks that he could get to win that Welker and then obviously Edelmann.


Yeah, you almost never pressured Brady. And when you did, usually he got caught with a play that all of a sudden look very easy, a wide receiver screen. And a lot of that is because he knew the system so well, he could go to it instantaneous. And when you go to a new system, you've got to learn the system. And there's so many levels to every quarterback has been around a long time, to so many levels to the system.


You start to morph it into you, what you need for certain things, talk to the coaches that they put it in. You start to go ahead and say, I'd like to do this for this, but it doesn't come out often, but it comes up three games and all of a sudden you're like, oh, I can use it. Why? Because we did it in twenty six back in twenty twelve. And you had used it in a while.


I think he just figuring out and the coaching staff really is figuring out that Tom ability to get the right play is going to win in the end. And it's a new system and they don't, they do have skills that checks to have certain things. But you don't have that second, third, fourth, fifth level until you've been in a long time. So teams to get after you, you find very quickly that you're now trying to process the information differently than you used to.


Just kind of go on through that a little bit right now, but. I said it after the first day when people wrote him off a little bit and I said I'd be careful, you know, he has a very unique way of proving people wrong very quickly.


Well, at the same time, he's forty three and this has to end at some point, you know. And I think when you're a quarterback, especially in big games and especially in the playoffs, you're, you know, you're a little bit like a pilot. You can't even if you make one mistake, that might be it. That's the mistake, you know, and that was the thing for years and years. He would always kind of, you know, he would have his moments.


But some of the passes he's had this year, you just kind of go, oh, man, that looked like a 40 year old guy. And that that's the part that's hard for me to figure out, whether it's just age, the system.


And this is a hard one to describe to people in their system. They have the ability for the receiver to read it and the quarterback to read it. And that's a little bit different in that Tom knew over time what each of his receivers, you know, if all the receivers that he had tight ends, he knew what they would do versus just look for outside leverage versus a guy inside versus the safety shaded a little bit. He's going to be a little more he's going to widen it.


All of a sudden, you find a guy. He thinks he's going to widen it bends. It is throwing the ball. And you expected him to do that. And so. Every time he throws an interception, I would argue he's almost learning the people, the system, and so I don't look at it in a way as long as they get in the playoffs. Yeah, I think they'll be fine. But he's probably not going to make the same mistake twice on the same routes and the same coverages, the same looks.


But you almost have to go through that. I don't care who you are. I mean, you just can't learn that second, third, fourth, fifth level, the short amount of time with no off season. I mean, the amount of time is done right now is still not even the same. He'd have had to do it against his defense day in and day out, make those mistakes and no one's looking. And all of a sudden you put that in your brain.


He processes the information. And look at this. He didn't make that again in week one. So he's just going through that a little bit. But he's still playing great. It's just a little bit different. I'm a big body language, facial expression guy, that's one of my things. Some people call me the body language doctor. I haven't like the body language of him in a couple of these games, and especially yesterday, because I think one of the things that made him so awesome to root for for me for 20 years was he carried himself like a movie character.


You know, it was like having Patrick Swayze walking into the double deuce, like that kind of energy. The guy in Tampa, sometimes you could see it when it's happening, especially last night. Just he has this look like I I can't solve this. I don't know what to do. And to me, it seems like he's got three really good receivers. He's got at least one good tight end. Spread him out and do Tom Brady stuff.


And I don't know why they don't do that. So why aren't they doing that? Well, what happens?


The old game of football, like if you go back a long time, like Dan Marino, spread them out, let me look at it, because quarterbacks usually like things spread out, because when you have people very close together, let's say you have a bunch formation, you have a tight end. At the point, a guy with a yard inside of will go with the old Patriots. Right. You got Edelman right here. You got Gronkowski here, and then you get the receiver.


Right. He's on the right side of Brady, just off the line of scrimmage. And then you've got another receiver over here. Well, that makes the defense all get closer to you, as well as the game in the NFL from a quarterback's perspective, is about pressure and not about the four guys up front. It's about who can break down the protection. You got five offensive linemen. There's four D linemen. Let's say one guy gets to block an extra extra.


Brady sends the order online. He says center go block Mike. Fifty two. That's who you got. So who else is left? You got a running back. So when you tell the center of his block and he's got that guy. But if you bring a safety and a nickel corner down over here over that little bunch, all of a sudden you're like, those guys can break the protection down. So most quarterbacks spread it out. If they want to blitz, they've got to come out of the middle of the field or on the side over your ten yards off.


These guys start to show me or that guy who's out there on the slot receiver, he's got to start coming in. I can change the protection center, go get him tailback. I'll get him. Now, in New England, they were incredible because they could do all these tight bunch looks. Most should get sack releases because they did so much stuff quickly. Got the ball out of the stands, was so much unique stuff that it allowed the quarterback to be that if you're blitzing, we have an answer right away.


Now, in his system, it's a little more hot. If you just throw hot, you get three yards, four yards. Well, that's kind of a quarterback struggle. Sometimes it's like, well, certainly, yeah. Do you want to throw for four? And to me, it's just learning the system and what really over time is the right way to do it in the system. And so like any quarterback, the frustration will come in when you're like there might be a better way, but then you got to also go teach it to a lot of people.


And that's very difficult because not everyone has his background of what he had before. The coaches there didn't. So they can't they can't just put stuff in left and right without knowing all the little intricate rules for every single player on the field.


So you're buying long term on the books. You feel like three months from now. This is this are two months from now, I guess. So mid-January, you feel confident that they won't look sloppy like this?


I think it's easier to double team people with space. The league used to be like that. Like I said, quarterbacks just like that. The league has gone to motion. You have the defense running. They don't really want to pressure you if all of a sudden you're going to change very quickly. I think the Bucs could motion a lot more, make the defense have to communicate. And, you know, in a way to talk about it would be like if Jabbar was in the paint for the Lakers.


They're going around fish. You're right. Yeah, well, I could get set up, but it's like, well, this guy is going to catch it and turn and shoot. We're going to double team with that. With rotations in the league starting to get better and faster, people knew how to rotate and go double team and the other guys, but they all had to communicate well in football. It's the same way you want to make defenses, have to talk while the snaps occur.


And when you're static, you're stationary. They can fake it.


They can talk just like offenses. They can do a whole bunch of stuff, make it look like this to get back into the spot. But when you're going like catch Mahomes and the Chiefs do, where you see the motion, the movement of everybody, it kind of comes the defense down. It's hard to pressure those type of things. I think if there's one thing I would say, it's that they probably need to get a little bit more, you know, movement pre snap.


Incredible basketball reference, you know, that's right, that's why you've made the transition, so you're seamlessly able to grab other sports in here first.


First when they came out right. When they were moving and going and. Oh, yeah.


And now you've brought two NBA teams in this. I love it. All right. So we have no fans this year and you can pick up. Basically, every audible, every signal, every whatever that the quarterback saying and all these little test things, there was one game I was watching. It was it was a car was doing like Sammy Davis. And when you're watching these games, because you have that weird brain where you in general know what everybody's going to do, are you even picking up, like, the terms and by the third quarter going, oh, they're doing Sammy Davis.


That means the running back to the like. How much can you absorb even as the game's happening?


Oh, I mean, I think you're absorbing all the time. I think people sometimes talk about a coach and some people in your organization or someone might ask me a question about when they're hiring someone to. Certain things I look at and just a point about what you make would be your ability to adapt. So. From a coaching perspective of a quarterback, it's like, can you process the information that just happened and come up with a plan that's in your system on offense, let's say?


Yeah, offensive coordinator. This is happening. We weren't prepared for that. Right. How can I teach it? Make it very simple for 11 guys can't say do this because they don't have all the rules of difference. So you have to have 11 guys. How do you make that simple for all 11 guys and make it something that we do, but we're going to change it. Because they're doing all this crazy stuff now, and that's just your ability to adapt on the fly.


And a lot of coaches I found can do it on Monday morning after they look at the tape, they're like, oh, we should have got to this or should have done this earlier. Could have done this in quarterbacks the same way. And then the rare guys, the guys were really gifted. They're doing it on the next round. So, so blue 80. Is that blue 72? Yeah. I mean, it is, but it's it's like Sammy Davis, right?


Yeah. The defense should get coached up on the side of a middle linebacker if you guys walk services. Hey, that was Sammy Davis when they ran outside zone, right. Yeah. Let's pretend it was Red Rover. OK, well, there's an opening there. So officers are making it really easy and simple because it goes Red Rover. Red Rover. Right. So is it the best players who are running players outside? Just great guys. Next time they run Red Rover, I want you to slide the line.


That's the middle linebacker. He's the quarterback of the defense. Say slide. Right. Well, you have that and you just weren't prepared for this week. But we've done it before. You just slide the line and gain a little advantage. That's that.


So the other thing, it could be like railroad, Range Rover, Rod Stewart, anything with an R and everybody knows just to go right. Is football. That is.


No, it's not because it's red. Might be right. Rover might be the play. Red might be right. And what happens is offensive then here that you know that and they would like to come back with Red Letter. Gotcha. All of a sudden the place is going bust, so it's just not how they are goes back and forth. I don't know how they keep track of this stuff. So has there been a game this year? Because literally we can hear everything this year.


Has there been a game this year where by the fourth quarter you knew everything the team was going to do?


No, I mean, you never know everything someone's going to do. But, you know, once you know football, it's almost like. Sometimes it can be like math, where you can kind of. Give yourself a great opportunity, I guess you could say, to to guess your guess. So it's more like poker. Oh, yeah, yeah, I don't know. I know you don't gamble at all, so in poker, sometimes you can kind of guess what people say.


But by the way, that's another part of the permutations of this. Don't just end with someone saying something. It's mannerisms of people like you said it just the way that guy's looking like. You'll see there's a linebacker, right? You walk up with the line of scrimmage. And I told you before the center, hey, Tom Brady says center mike 50 to go block fifty two. But you're sitting there. Fifty two, looking around, looking at you.


He's pretending to blitz. Yeah he's six is right next to him. Fifty six to stand there looking down at the ground. And through all the years you played it, now change it, lock it, and all of a sudden fifty six comes, and it's because the mannerisms of the guy, it's like guys are trying to hide when they don't want to look at the quarterback. Don't look at me. Look at me. I'm not here. I'm not here.


I'm not watching. And you already know that's not right. You would never do that unless it's so hard.


It's I think it's the hardest job in all sports. And you see, like, even to I had the dolphins, I had the money line, not the minus three now, but. Oh, yeah, the Dolphins beat the Broncos. The Broncos stink. They've been down twenty in four straight games. And then to whatever they're doing with them in that first half, he just can't figure it out. And then it gets into the second half. It's like, oh, they'll make adjustments.


Nope. Still can't figure it out. Finally, they have to go to the Fitzpatrick thing. And the reason you could figure it out the short in the field on them, they're sending weird pressure. Sometimes they're rushing for sometimes a weird blitz and he doesn't have enough confidence to just drop the ball like over people's heads. And they basically have to take him out. And I still think two is good, but it just shows you like the stuff that like somebody like Herbert's doing where he's thirty seven completions in a game, your rookie.


And I don't know, I just think the position is so much harder. But do you think we expect too much from some of these rookies?


Well, it depends on the system here in the towns around you. Everything. The one part is. You know, with the two one, you've got to remember who he won against, and I think Vic Fangio, who's the head coach of the Broncos, is one of the best. Defensive design coach. So he was the defensive coordinator before, he has one of the most difficult that I went against as far as like what? Like usually we have rules.


You look at after the snap based on coverage of certain rules or if it's covered to these rules, adjust to this for our receivers. If it's cover three, we know what we're looking at. But the very I mean, the league why it's different than college or high school. You've got to figure out whether in. Right after the snap or pre snap off its first or second down, third down gets very difficult. But after the snap, you have to look at certain guys to tell you what you know for safety.


They both go back. It's covered, too, because you've watched it all week, right? Well, if one guy goes down and the other goes back to three and that means that three guys have all the way to the end zone to protect on defense, two corners go back and the one safety goes back to safeties cover to they go back, they half the field, 50 percent of the field, all the way to the end zone. So what happens is you're always looking at safeties, maybe linebackers once in a while to determine where you start your read.


So my read starts and cover two over here, one to two to three in the four and cover three. Same route. We didn't change our concept. Oh, it's cover three. I start over here one, two, three to four. So what happens when you're young and going against Vic Fangio? You kind of don't know what it is. Is it cover two, four, three, two, man. And all of a sudden you're kind of like holding the ball and you don't know where to start and you don't know how to get through a read because you're just randomly looking and so you don't make it systematic.


Hmm. Something wrong with Lamar or is this just one of those year from hell for them?


Well, it's a it's a combination of multiple things. I mean, we know how talented he is. You can't luck your win the MVP. Yeah, we know he's a very special quarterback and I think he's going to have a great career in the NFL this year. Just, you know, they lost the right guard. He retired, was a great player, Marshall. And then their left tackle, Ronny Stanley, he's Zaara lost him. He's I mean, those are two of the best linemen.


Yeah. I fell and. People don't understand how you went from two and a half to three seconds in the pocket to one and a half to two seconds. Now all of a sudden all the reads are used to doing at this pace, you normally go boom, boom, boom, boom. Now you're going back to that and you're like, whoa, that wasn't like that last year. And it's like Baker Mayfield near one. He had Zeiler, an offensive lineman, to trade him to the Giants.


And I think for Olivier Vernon, if I remember correctly, it could run there, but and I was like, I didn't love it simply because Baker was used to playing at the speed. His brain was like, I can read it. I have time to get through this. Now, the next year, he's reading the same things that boom. And now your internal clock speeds up on every place you're trying to do it faster. And over time that starts to make mistakes happen.


And all of a sudden these places that were great a year ago are quite their teams have had a year to study. So that was going to help half a second. Players in front of you aren't quite there anymore. There is another half a second. I mean, all this stuff adds up and that's why it's really hard to maintain it for a long time without.


Have you done a herbut game yet? I actually did his first one. Oh, which was amazing because this is the Tyrod Taylor almost get stabbed to death by the team doctor, basically that and that herbut comes in. Looks like he hadn't even showered or put his contact lenses in my plan and then was really good. And I was watching that going, wait, this is he good. And now now we know, like, the guy is special and he's kind of unlike any other QB right now is just like this old school AFL gunslinger, right?


Yeah. I mean, he's you must love him. Well, I watched one drive. I watched his first drive and I said, I'm going to tell you right now, this kid, he's not pretty good. He's really good. So I could see some of those small little things. Sometimes you're like, he shouldn't have been able to do that. Yeah, that was rare. And then I'm like, okay, maybe that was like and then I'm like, he should have been able to do that either.


There was two of them on the first drive and I said, you know, I told Jim. I'm telling you, this kid's not pretty good, he's really good and he's special. They hit a homerun right here.


So, you know, from what I remember, I remember you do in that game now that you're bringing this up and I remember you becoming more and more impressed as the game went along, you kept pointing it out.


I think it was the chiefs, if I remember correctly, maybe there was somebody else. But I think it was the chiefs that when they had to be yelling down score to beat them. Right. And Herbert said a few tough losses. That was quite amazing. But he. Has the ability to, I call it process information quickly and so when you're young, you really can't like I described, I'm like, you can't always know exactly what to look at when you're young.


You don't know where all the rules are for the stuff I said you don't remember. But when he does have a special awareness, he's like, I don't know, there's more guys over here. I'm throw it over here. And that was kind of like underneath him. I'll just throw behind. And he said that he had that that touchdown he threw where the guy hadn't even turned around yet and he threw it through this twenty five yard laser to the spot where the guy was going to be a second and a half later.


It was unbelievable.


I haven't seen in our game. He threw a rock that he threw two balls that quarterbacks don't usually make in the first game I did. This was later on in the they already knew it was really good and I mentioned it on air, but he was. Exceptional. Like, I mean, it's hard to describe, but, you know, it would be too long for me to explain everything. Yeah, I saw something, but he just does things that are that are rare and he has the ability to throw the ball downfield versus certain coverages, not others do.


And he has the ability because he sees it very quickly and his eyes can go, oh, yeah. And if you watch people, why do people always Patrick Mahomes has this like times ten to anybody, but he'll look over here and he's looking over there. People have seen him go like that and throw it. Yeah, I see that. But in reality, they don't see the one where he's looking at the guy, but the linebacker, if you go watch the say he's he's throwing a guy break in this way.


Right. He's going to throw here. He just looks right here. And the linebacker moves and then he goes and he's just using his eyes, so what he's not doing is he's not actually looking. Most quarterbacks look at the guy they're going to throw to. Yeah. When you get really good, you just look at the defensive move. You say, I already know where my guy is. I'm going to look at the defender and I'm going to throw here.


Just move your body with just an inch. Start your body weight here. Bam, I got the extra foot I need. It all goes back there and that's where I think it has a little bit of that.


The NFL top hundred shows that they did that Belichick on and they were doing the Ed Reed section and they showed this play where Ed Reed faked out, meaning where he was kind of ref or somebody know, where he basically he pretended he was going to veer left because he knew what Manning was going to do, pretend he was going to throw away and then throw it back, left deep to Reggie Wayne. So Edri drifted that way and then basically did this 180 sprint to the spot and picked off Manning and Manning came off the field like he was just what the fuck had this guy taking?


And Belichick was so excited about it. He was like, that is the greatest play I've ever seen a safety make in my life. But it was the only time I remember the secondary guy outwitting the dude who's outwitting him with the eyeball look to the right because that was a Manning specialty. You were good at that, too, by the way. That way back when I tell you that, you're exactly right. It's. If you're good enough, like if you know the rules to things right when you see this, so when people come off the ball, if you're Edry and you see this combination for guys are going that way, right?


Yeah. And you see the quarterback who's really good. You go against the rookie. He looks over here, you flow with him right away. You go pick it up or charge against Peyton Manning. You're watching enough tape. If you're really like I said, if you're going to adapt, you're watching the tape. You're like every time he looks right on these four guys going vertical, he throws left.


Yeah, why is that? But are you willing to trust that in a game? Yeah. And so when he looks right, he's really still looking at you and he's trying to move you because he wants to throw this guy. So I'm going to look here. I'm going to throw this scene. And then he goes, boom, and you're like, oh, I fell for it, right? And everybody does, because then they get on the field.


It's like it's real. It's not like this video game thing. It's like these are big plays and your responsibility stay there, but you got to flow quickly. So he basically says, I'm going to make him think I'm flowing with my body language. He says he feels that leverage. I'm going to I'm going to go right away the other way, I'm guessing. Yeah, that's what happened. Yeah. The either that to me to you got me the Herberts cannon.


On top of everything else, I sat and I talked about this on Sunday and our part, I'm just, you know, all due respect to the Chargers fans, but they're basically like a team without a city right now there in L.A. It's like the second team. You just think like if you put this dude on the Cowboys or the Broncos or the Bears, these teams that have these generations of fans, they'd be absolutely losing their mind. And here it's like maybe he's the gateway to the Chargers having fans in L.A. and people like my son.


But but it's just weird that this is and then Dambrot, who sadly went down last week. But I, I felt like burned a lot of ways, was was just as good and just as impressive as herbut is. The difference is the age. I think Burrowes probably like three and a half years older, but I haven't done a real game I think is really good.


I watched once again a couple of drugs. Yeah, you should watch a couple of drivers just to get an evaluation from my own brain. So, you know, right away pretty much it was quarterbacks. Yeah I can tell, but.


I knew right away it was over. I mean, that was. Yeah, that might be the best pick in that draft. And I'll tell you right now that this would be a lot of teams ahead of him who are going to look back and be like, how do we miss this? Well, how about Miami? And I'd like to, but Miami takes to over on top of the injuries.


But I got to be honest to say, I'll be honest, I've yet to see one playoff, two so far each week I'm studying the game. We're done. And I had like in the first game and Ryan was the quarterback.


Fitzpatrick Yeah. Is Mahomes the most talented quarterback ever? I'm not saying is the best ever, but does he bring the most the table from a talent standpoint?


That's hard to say because. What is telling me, like when you say that, just like give me a call. So I would say Jordan and LeBron brought the most of the table, but they also maximized it by how hard they were. But they were just if you're just checking out what are the 20 things I need from the best guy in the league, they probably check the bounce boxes.


So with Mahomes, if you're trying to create, that's a better description. Yeah, he checks so many boxes, it's hard to describe because he kind of has the vision and instincts, you know, like a Peyton Manning. But like when I say that, I mean, like the vision, the ability to look off do these things. Yeah. Has a little bit of an arm close to like Aaron Rodgers or early Farve. Yeah, but with Farve.


He's back then you got to remember, people were under center a lot more, and so the game was I don't want to say it fast, but. Shotgun, the game slows down a little bit of quarterbacks because you're not rush to get it back to get set up and. That's why I even went to Shotgunned was like quarterback and feel things better differently, and so it's a different if you put I thought Farve played this. I don't say it's.


Slow in the pocket, but if you watched Aaron Rodgers or Brady, they're common the pocket when fire started, it was Rush back, get there. Right. These things and a can, right? Well, Roger said can Patrick does to Patrick place very calm. And so he moves when he needs to move. But he can move, you know. Whatever he wants, he can run for 20. I mean, in the playoff game last year, he ran for 40 yard touchdown.


I think two guys missing a tackle, but he just he checks so many boxes, it's hard to think that someone else has ever checked that many boxes. And that's how I feel. The only thing that comes to my brain is that like a Brady. These boxes, there's 10 of them he checks about. Well, I still have a great description for you that tells you what's that one that really has that's 14 points better than everybody else. There is one of those.


And and it's like that box right there. Well, that just made those other four really not matter. And, you know, that's for another day.


But, well, that thing with Mahomes on top of everything else is just like that. Thirty nine play where you call the perfect. The two guys are chasing him. He's about to get sacked and then he just puts his jet skis on and all of a sudden he runs for 11 yards. You're just like we played that perfectly. That's the fact that he has that piece on top of everything else is nuts. I think the quarterback play, you know, it seems like we ebb and flow with this stuff.


But I think I like the state of quarterbacks right now, especially with the rookie infusion we had. And it's gone down the line. There's only like a few teams that are really screwed. Losing Dak obviously wasn't great, but but in general, I think, like half the league has to be at least somewhat happy with their QB play. By the way, this is this is probably the best. Collection of talent. There was one other time frame, this product, twenty seven to 11 or 12 you had like.


The older guys and the younger guys together were still playing. He was in Minnesota, you know, you had Rogers, you had and then your generations coming in. Yeah, and it was Brady Manning, but you had Roethlisberger, so you had Brady. And obviously you had far you had Aaron Rodgers, who was about to come in rivers by 2011. They were like 15 and whatever it was. And then you also had Kurt Warner. I mean, you had probably and Roethlisberger I mean, you had probably 10 or 12 guys that be Hall of Famers, you know, along the way.


And so this is probably the best collection of debts that I've seen since then. And I think it's probably better because everyone learns from the people before him. I never saw you just start to, like, be like, how did that guy do? And they study it. And then the coaches study with that guy with Peyton Manning, figured out what Tom Brady figured out. Other coaches are studying what their system is doing and trying to implement it to make it hard on defenses.


And eventually they start using it and it makes life easier on the quarterback. Basketball is like that, two basketball ebbs and flows right now, the basketball is an awesome talent stretch. You know, like you look at the three all NBA teams and 10 guys that don't make it, we're like, man, the league's got like 30 awesome guys right now. And sometimes that number could be 12. But yeah, it's funny when the quarterbacks like that.


I know you haven't seen every team yet. Is there a defense that's jumped out to you as a watch out for that team and cold weather, Jan? That's going to that's going to be a bitch to play?


Well, I feel like last year, San Francisco right away, it was like they're going to rush for us. But the system was like. You know, everyone else that Kansas City just went in that circle and I said this is going to be a game and people just can't understand how. Talented, but also the team was really good on both sides of the ball and, you know, they were pretty close to winning the Super Bowl and everyone forgets Kansas City had to come back three games in the playoffs to win.


How about the garappolo bomb?


If it's if it's a yard short or they they go ahead with, like a minute and a half left and that's that's where it's like, oh, this team's so great.


They're going to be a danger. Well, the chiefs are great. They have Andy Reid, Ashram's Terry kill. The combination is up. And, you know, I said this is about Brady. I said. When Tom Brady, if you have the best quarterback and meets the best coach and they're together. They're going to win multiple championships because they're always going to be the most prepared, they're always going to have the most answers and the guys can overcome little things that other people can.


And then they're going to always be the mixture possibly win just based on those two, regardless of kind of people that come out. And when you get really good people around you, you win and go 16 and up. And it was like Popovich with Duncan right now. Duncan wasn't LeBron or Michael, let's say, but he was he's way up there in the class of people. And that combination means they're going to be in the mix every year, that those two are together.


Right, 50 wins every year. That's Andy Reid and Patrick.


Yeah, it's 11 wins every year unless something weird happens. Yeah, I know, I know you frown on gambling and you don't like gambling at all, but I've it is there, first of all, sound.


I decided on Sunday night Mahomes was the MVP and he was plus one heading into those games. And now we're just like as long as he's Mahomes for five more games, that's a wrap. I don't. Do you see any other MVP candidate across the board? Like you could make a case. Maybe Kyla Murray could get hot down the stretch. But other than that, I don't see it now.


I mean. No homes unless he gets hurt or something, which you never. And then the other thing that's going on, this is right around the time everybody decides who's going to be in the Super Bowl. But as we learn every year, who we decide, never actually, that's never actually the Super Bowl. Is there a kind of medium shot? That you like somebody in that seven to three, six and four range, like maybe maybe a Ravens, maybe the Bucks, maybe Buffalo, maybe like what you saw from Tennessee, you did the game on Sunday.


Is there is there kind of a mid-range team that you're enamored with? So give me the division leaders, do you have enough off your head right now? Yeah, I got, but well, AFSA, it's Buffalo Steelers Tennis's in a tie with Indy, but I think Indy has the the thing and then the chiefs and then in the NFC, I mean, we'll throw the E out Packers Saints. And I think it's the Rams right now, maybe Rams, Seahawks, as the two teams that come to mind would be the Cardinals and the bills.


OK, those are two teams that can give any team trouble in the league in a one game. So Sean McDermott, great coach for the bills, Josh Allen. Has rare ability and he's still learning the game, but I think you'll see, you know, you start to see the flashes of how good he can be. It's just him learning and then they're off and their offense.


I think people jumped off on including myself and maybe look back and it's like I got a couple of bad weather games. There was one weird covid week and maybe we shouldn't have been so eager to jump off that team.


Well, I think anybody who jumps on or off for a game sincerely in general, because sometimes a coach on the other side just came up with a great scene that day that really made it very difficult and everything was hard. And you go back and look, I'm on it, but when you play them. Again, in six weeks or in the playoffs, you're way more prepared because that same scheme is not going to work. So where do you go from that?


And so, you know, that happens sometimes. I mean, we've seen like, well, we keep talking about the Patriots, but. How many times do we put them four dead over the years? I mean, I can remember the Kansas City game years ago where they lost and came in and threw a touchdown, the last drive. And it was like that and it was like 2014. They only played like three or four Super Bowls and they were three more titles after that.


So Buffalo is twenty five to one, Tennessee's thirty one cardinals at thirty two to one. I think.


I think to me the Cardinals and Buffalo will be the two like Darkhorse teams. I'm not going to get there, but they be teams that have the quarterback who can do it and have a defensive system that I think could define the thing with the cards.


So they play the Pats is sweet. That's a team they should beat. The Pats don't have a front seven that's going to hurt Cuyler in any way. And if they're really good, they said we're at the point of the season. And so you just got to take care of business in games like that. You win by 10, go to the next game and that's what happens.


This statement, though, in the NFL, because there is like you're not going to play Bill Belichick and all of a sudden, like the Ravens, like that was an easy go win a game two weeks ago.


And yeah. So that's a lot what just happened. But Bill Belichick is really good. I'll tell people the same thing. Be very careful about this season. Saying that he's not so Bill, Bill Belichick, the same with Brady. It's like these two guys, they're not pretty good. They're the best and they're going to figure this thing out, even if it's not this year. Over time, they're going to figure it out.


Well, him beating the Ravens is ridiculous. He pulled out a game plan from the Broncos to Gursky, and then he convinced God to have a monsoon during the fourth quarter. Is it really that's why he's the best. Let's talk about golf really quick before you go. You love golf. You watch golf constantly. You fantasize about maybe being in the senior tour some day after yourself, OK? Oh, even better. OK, whatever. D.J. finally wins the Masters, everyone, psyche's pound for pound, he's kind of the mahomes of golf in some ways he's ESX the most boxes of all the golfer.


Then you have Koepka, who seemed like he was banged up this year. A year ago it was like Ultragaz goes through Koepka and then two years before that was up Rogas through Jordan. It just seems like the guy kind of changes year to year. Who's the guy for you right now? Well, I would say based on your statement right there, this is sports in general, like those very rare times where you have. You got to know Michael Jordan didn't win a title for, what, seven years, yeah, seven years, so.


You can be the guy doesn't mean guaranteed success and, you know, even with bathrooms, I think sometimes it's. What happens when something like Tiree killing one of their Digo die? He can do it. He's that good, but all of a sudden it makes everything way harder. And teams pressure you now because they're not scared of that guy scoring a touchdown. Yeah, and Tom Brady lost Randy Moss, Wes Welker. Like, when guys go down Gronkowski, things get more difficult no matter how good you are at the professional level, because the game just isn't as easy as it looks.


Year in, year out and. There's one Tiger Woods, I would say, I don't think that we're going to see that probably very soon the combination of speed, power and precision, touch, softness and then obviously incredible putting. But I think you're right that Dustin Johnson is a rare ability to people watch. I can still remember watching Aaron Rodgers at the Pro Bowl one year he threw a ball. And it was in a practice and I remember watching it, I turn to the coach and I was like.


You have never seen anybody do that. And I was like, I can't believe that ball just went that high that far with that effortless power. And it was like, well, if that guy's on, it's really hard to beat them in golf, let's say. Right. And. It's the same way, just kind of one of those guys, but the rest of it's like you can get injured. That's what you're talking about. Brooks Mahomes has one or two guys get hurt.


You know, if things happen, they just happen in sports. You're never guaranteed tomorrow. I mean, Dan Marino come out for forty eight touchdowns his rookie year or whatever, his second year. And he was incredible. And he was the standard then, too. And he he went to Super Bowl and didn't win it to anyone against Joe Montana. Obviously, that's very difficult. I mean, how great is that game? But then after that, Dan Marino let you talk to any quarterbacks growing up in that era?


He was the guy they looked at. He was like, wow, that's Dan Marino. That's that's more homes right now. But you're not guaranteed. Well, talk to a Patriots fan who had to root against Dan Rather, that guy was absolutely petrified. Yeah, I think that they witkoff because it does change year to year. Right. Everybody is the guy and then something will happen. And what's more interesting to me is. There's always one guy who becomes the guy in a tournament, if he's like to back, the fans are aware of it like fourth round.


Oh yes, eagled eight. And there's always that one guy that the other guys are like, oh, shit, that guy's coming. And that was what was so great about Tiger, even after his run basically ended in 08 that all the shit happened to him. But he still was able to had that persona of like the tiger shadow over those over those fourth rounds where he could be five back, three back. And you're still kind of aware of them.


I feel like Brooks is that guy now, even though he hasn't had, you know, a year remotely like what he had the previous two years. But even then, that Masters weekend, all of a sudden, he was kind of lingering for a second. It's like, oh, here comes Brooks. So I guess like the title would be the Oh, Here comes Blanky. And I think that's Brooks. And you disagree? No, Brooks has been incredible for such a stretch, but he was banged up.


What happens is like in professional sports, you've got to learn your body like all the same stuff you used to feel like in golf to the golf ball. That's fine. It's not like your hands and your. Thought process go away, but it's like a quarterback who gets hurt and can't quite run like you do. He's so used to doing it this way, but the body doesn't quite react that way. And that's why health matters. So Brooks is just learning how to get back to where it was.


But he's just he has to go through the process like everybody else. You know, it's this isn't like high schooler and just show up in some much because I'm better than everybody. It's like a really good and if you're not at your best, it's hard to win against guys who are at their best because it's just small margins between them. But Brooks was able to keep that for such a long period of time. And so people talk about confidence, all that stuff.


And I'm like, confidence is just a demonstrated ability to yourself. You know, I have confidence because I know I've been doing this every day on the ranch, in the tournaments. I know what it is. And I know. I know, I know they know. And so it's like I'm going to go do it. When you get hurt, you come back. You're like, I pulled that one shot. I don't normally pull it in the front nine in the first round, I mean, I might pull it on the fortieth hole of the tournament and I know how to adjust it.


But now I'm like, all right, let me go ahead and correct it a little bit. Your confidence is just a little bit. And some people say, I got to be more confident. I'm like, you get confident. I'm going to show yourself you should go practice, make it one hundred percent. You want to eliminate left, eliminate it, hit one hundred balls, never start when left of the flag. Do that now you're going to get cancer.


It's demonstrated ability. So Brooks just is going through what everybody does. Professional athlete. He'll be fine. He's incredible.


Are you pro Bryson or anti Bryson now? I love it. I think it's great for the unprogressive too. I get mad when people I know it's kind of a villain. It's like, why? Because you hate the shit out of the ball. How is this that fun? No, no, no. There's a weird backlash to them that I don't totally sure when you're when you're.


We are doing something. And other people are trying to copy you, you're doing something right at the professional level, it's very hard because there's a lot of people who have a lot of great teaching. They work very hard and it's their livelihood. I mean, it's all there and you're studying it and doing everything. And you hire a team and they got everything around. But, you know. Rice deserves credit for figuring something out, and that requires.


Patience, practice, ingenuity, adapting, and also at the same time, it requires. You trusting it fully and all of a sudden after that, it's like, oh, maybe we should all do that where people don't really want to, you know, it's like me. It's like no one's really if you're really PGA guy or a guy who's a really good golfer. So the guy is a football player. I know. But if I beat a guy, then they might ask, what are you doing with your technique?


And so when you start winning, people want to know how come you haven't ended up in one of these goofy skins matches with the celebrity and the real golfer, and they go head to head and everybody's like, how have you not done this yet?


They asked a couple times. But, you know, just that's not a good answer. Well, I just haven't been and not just not ready yet. What are you afraid of? I'm not afraid. I just I got life. I got kids. I only have so much time, man.


So do you realize how much fun and I would have betting on you in some goofy celebrity skins match? Why are you depriving us of this?


Because you're calling it goofy. So that's good. I'm dying to see it. Who would you pair up with? Who would be your guy? Who would be your partner? I'll take Sal. Who do you take? No, no, no, not Sal, a real gofer. Who would you take? Brooks No, I'm taking Sal.


Right. And he's good at golf. You know, you definitely don't want that either. Yeah.


He doesn't check and he checks their boxes for. No, I mean. There's a lot of great art, I'll be fine, but just scheduling wise and just so diplomatic to diplomatic answer from you, but it's like I like playing tournament golf where it matters, if that makes sense, what you've done, Pebble Beach and all that stuff.


Right? Yeah, I've seen you in there. What's the best one to do as a celebrity kind of moonlighting in this stuff?


Well, I mean, I've played in a few PGA Tour events, and so my goal was obviously to take the next step and keep going there. But as far as the American century is amazing. You know, in Lake Tahoe, that's always my family. My boys love to go down there. So that's been really enjoyable. But that's pretty much the only one I plan to that I'm going to end on this.


Speaking of boys, so my son really got into football like a year ago and became obsessed with Lety. So we watched the football finality, which is just like it's like who's the best defensive player ever? It's like it's out there. So let's move on to the next segment. So then he started watching all the football lives and they made one about you that was really good. And he beat belatedly became a Romo fan, even though you're retired. But they did a nice job of capturing your career and some of the ups and downs and all that stuff.


And he was he was really into it. Have you actually watched that or did you just do an interview? But you're one of those people you don't want to watch it, not 99 percent of time.


I don't really watch a whole lot of the stuff, but that one I did. But I. I actually. I was excited about that one because it felt to me like. It's one of those things where you're going to be able to pass on to your kids. And so. I don't know, I felt honored that anybody would do that, you know, a lot of times, you know, there's too much going on. Well, but I think that one felt weirdly felt like an honor.


It just felt like I was like, wow, I can't believe anyone would want to do that to me. But it felt special and unique. And I just thought about my kids and grandkids and I'm dead and gone, you know, hopefully more than 10 years. But they'll all be able to go back and look at that and kind of see it. So I give them time and I try to be as honest as I could. And I loved it.


I thought they did a great job and I watched it all the way through and they were good.


I'm glad you watched it because, you know, obviously when we created 30 for 30, we weren't expecting that historical document aspect of it. And I remember like the Fab Five when we did about Jaylon, that, like, changed England's life. He was this whole new generation of people who had no idea what that team was. And they watched that Fab Five and like, belatedly became a cool team again. And it got mentioned to him for the next ten years.


So I was firer right there. Oh, yeah. But that's the thing. If you do those correctly, it's really cool and it's really cool to watch it with your kids, your grandkids someday, all that stuff. So anyway, I'm glad you watched it. It was good seeing you. I'm glad you're well. Hopefully you're right about Brady. I would hate to see him go down the tubes. Don't work. Yeah. On a different team at this point.


Now he's going to figure it out. I believe you are great seeing you and congrats on all the QBs stuff. It's been really, really fun watching you do the games and keep it up.


Thanks to all of you the best. Thank you. All right, I'm taping this piece of the podcast on Thanksgiving, 530 Pacific Time, it's been one of the worst Thanksgiving football days ever, if not the worst. I can't speak of anything that happened before I was born, but at least in my lifetime, this was the lousiest one. We started out with Houston and Detroit. It was a terrible game. Detroit obviously quit on their coach a couple of weeks ago.


Houston blows them out. That was game one. Game two was an NFC East Shibam between Dallas and Washington. It was just a matter of who was going to screw up more. The winner was Dallas. Antonio Gibson was great if you had him in fantasy, but Dallas just blew that game in a bunch of different ways, culminating in a fourth and ten fake punt that ended up being a long developing reverse sweep where the guy just ran right into the line where four guys were.


It was maybe the worst fake punt I've ever seen, at least in the top five. So that was game two. And then Baltimore. Pittsburgh was supposed to be the third game that one gets postponed, which we knew heading into today. So we lost the only game that actually would have been fun. And then right before I taped this, we find out that Lamar Jackson reportedly has covered the Ravens are in such trouble right now that they have shut down their facility.


Nothing is going to happen at least until Monday. And that game is probably going to get postponed for God knows how many days. So I took I had that Pittsburgh in two different million dollar pics. I guess we're just going to avoid those. One of them, one Houston, the other one lost Dallas. So if that doesn't happen this week, I guess one avoid in those. You knew? You knew the covid thing with football, you knew this was a high wire act and you knew at some point.


There is going to be a reckoning and it's starting to feel like this week is the reckoning as the numbers surge everywhere, as the government that we currently have seems completely oblivious to anything. And as the cold weather is coming and it just feels like if sports reflects society and a bunch of different ways, as we know, it's definitely going to reflect everything that's going on. Society now and the numbers are surging. It makes sense that it's going to really mess with the rest of this football season, 17 week season could see it getting pushed to 18 weeks, maybe 19 weeks.


I could see them extending the playoffs to eight seeds per conference. You know, sound are going to cover all of this on Sunday. We'll have a lot more information then. But it's depressing. So, you know, hear about million dollar pics of the press. First one. Colts minus three against the Titans. I just like the way the Colts are playing now, Michael Pittman, the rookie receiver, I think has really added something to them.


And you throw in and you throw in Taylor, they have an explosiveness that as long as they're playing a team that doesn't have a good defense and isn't harassing Phil Rivers, they can control the clock. Their defense is really good with Darius Leonard back. And I like the way they're playing. I wasn't a big fan of them three weeks ago, but I like the way they're playing now. I think they're better than Tennessee, so I like the minus three.


They're home and I think they can grab a foothold in the AFC South. So that's one game cards minus one and a half against the Patriots. This is in New England. Doesn't matter. I just like Cayler against New England's front seven. And I. I think the Patriots teams have just kind of figured out that they're going to try to run the ball all the time and they're just stacking them and making Cam Newton throw. I think the cards have more firepower.


I think the NFC West is way better than the AFC East.


And I think the cards minus one half mark, that one down also mark down Panthers plus three and a half against the Vikings. The Vikings lost to Dallas last week. You watched Dallas today. Dallas is terrible, right? Well, why would you like the Vikings? This land feels like it should be Panthers plus two and a half. I feel like I'm getting a free point. And I just think the Panthers are a well coached. You know, if you're if you have a tournament of all the bad teams, this is probably the most professional bad team.


Also, Teddy Bridgewater plays we got a little Teddy Bridgewater homecoming thing in Minnesota, which can't be can't be ignored either. So you got that last one, Vegas, minus three against the Falcons. Vegas is a playoff team. They they've been impressive enough times and they have enough use. They they have enough explosiveness. They're good on both sides of the ball. And I've just been impressed by them. What's funny is their schedule has been brutal and it's about to get a lot easier.


So if you're if you've liked what you've seen from Vegas, you really are going to start liking it now because now they're about to play some bad teams. First one is at Atlanta. I just think they're better. And I think Atlanta gets weirdly favored in the betting community just because they're allegedly explosive. And yet every week they're disappointing, basically. So mark that one down. Tiss for you. One is the Seahawks with the Saints Seahawks playing Philly on Monday Night Saints in Denver.


I don't see Denver winning two games that are out. I just think these are two superior teams playing inferior teams during a point of the season when you don't fuck around anymore. So Seahawks, Saints together, both of them just have to win by a half point, mark that one down. And then the other teams I have is a Trevor Lawrence piece. I just want to go against the Jets and Jaguars. The Jaguars have not only thrown away the season, they've brought in Mike Glennon to really try to throw away the season.


So they're playing the Browns and the Dolphins are playing the Jets and the Jets and Jaguars are in a death match to try to get Trevor Lawrence. So when I profit from this, tease the Dolphins down to one, tease the Browns down to a half point, the Browns worry me a little bit just because they're they're a little banged up. They've had some covid stuff. And, you know, they're not playing with a full deck right now. I'm not sure it's going to matter.


I think they're just going to run the ball make don't do the rest. So that is my Trevor Lawrence Tees. And I might do that the rest of the way. Just go against the Jets in the Jags together in the same pilots, mark that one down. And then finally, a four team or three to one odds for Team T, Seahawks, Saints, Dolphins, Browns, everybody goes down to a half point except the Dolphins who goes down to a point.


So three to one on its mark, that one down long Chapala Charger's plus one ninety in Buffalo. And you figure if they win, it'll be because their offense is awesome. Herbert does Herbert stuff and and keep cementing his rookie of the Year claims and it's just a high scoring game. Really fun old school AFL type game. The over fifty two and a half. I want to parlay those together charges plus 190 over fifty two and a half. Figuring if the Chargers win they would have high scoring game plus four thirty three, mark that one down as well.


So here are million of our picks for the rest of week. Twelve Colts minus three over the Titans. One hundred and fifty K cards minus one and a half over the past one hundred fifty K Panthers plus three and a half at Minnesota. One hundred and fifty K Vegas. Minus three at Atlanta. One hundred and fifty K two teasers. Dolphins down to one browns down to a half point one hundred K Seahawks and Saints both down to a half point one hundred K.


In those teases both sides have to win and then fifty can a three to one to Seahawks, Saints, Dolphins, Browns. We're throwing all them together.


So if all four of those win I will win one hundred two hundred. Three hundred and fifty.


Great. And then long shot parlay the week fifty K on the Chargers plus one 990 with the over fifty two and a half. That is plus four thirty three. We are down. I'm sorry we are up one hundred and seventy seven K for the season. I guess we're avoiding those two Steelers bets. Good luck to the Ravens. Hope you recover from just the. Horrendous Thanksgiving Football Day, but I hope you enjoyed seeing your family. Hope you enjoyed eating.


Hope it stayed safe. We're going to take a break and then we're going to get to Jim Miller.


All right, Jim Miller is here. He wrote books on SNL and ESPN, and he's got one coming on HBO next year and he's been on this podcast before. You texted me like three weeks ago, two weeks ago or whatever, and you were like, did you see the Belushi duck? And I'm like, wait, that's going to be good, and you were like, you got to watch it. So it came out on Showtime. I watched it on Sunday night.


And then I watched it again yesterday, I watched it twice. I'm like the all time Bellucci guy and I feel like it was directed by R.J. Cutler. I think they did a really good job. I learned a lot. And Jim and I are just going to talk about the doc. Were you surprised it was this good?


Hell, yeah. I mean, because there was look, there's no way anyone could understand how good it could be because Judy was sitting on so much. You know, I think this thing is I mean, you have to go back to when Woodward wrote Wired and everybody I mean, it was such a polarizing, awful thing for so many people. And at that point, everybody was trying to put toothpaste back in the tube and say, look, we got to own the narrative through.


John really was even all three, the 60 degrees of who he was. But it's been talked about for so long and it just had no idea. I mean, look, I think can be a cancer in somebody's life, but somebody who worked on two volumes of the SNL book, I just sat there with my jaw on the ground, the letters, some of the recordings that we didn't even know existed. Obviously, some of the footage, it's all it's just it's just beautiful.


So for people listening, Judy is Belushi's widow, by the way. For people, listening is my favorite guy ever for favorite comic about time, and Belushi was second. And the reason I fell in love with that live in the first place was when they started showing the greatest hits on whatever night that was when they would take the cadenced 1/2 hours or hours earlier than they were from the first like four years. So right around season four, they started showing those in primetime.


And if you're a little kid, you just gravitated to Bellucci. You're like, who's this guy? And at that same time, Animal House is coming out. He's on covers and stuff. And he was just this force of nature. And I remember one of the times I was able to stay up and got to see him as as the Incredible Hulk in the Margot Kidder season, or they showed the replay, whatever. And it was just him as the Hulk.


He clears out the bathroom. And you're just like, this guy is my favorite guy ever. I can't believe this person exists. So I was I went to I saw his movies in the theater, and then I remember buying Wired. I remember buying the Saturday Night Live book that came out maybe two years after, which seems like it was a little affected by how divisive Wird was. And then you did the two oral histories. And at some point, as you said, the Bellucci side tried to own the narrative because the Wired thing went so badly.


And that's why I never thought we'd get this documentary. It's certainly been how many years has it been floating around as an idea, these five or six, right?


Yeah, but you have to really go back to Wired, where people started to talk to Judy Belushi and say to her, listen, we can't let this be the final word. And it was just very interesting because she got remarried and she didn't want to be delving into a project. And I respect her husband, her second husband like that, immersed in the world of her first husband. And then she got divorced. And I think she just came to the conclusion that she needed to do this.


And thank God she did, because I was stunned by by how much I didn't realize, for instance, a lot of people didn't realize how many notes and letters he wrote. And thank God, by the way, email sucks. It's like it's so great to go back to when people really communicated on paper and to see his handwriting. And he Bill Hader does the reads on his on his letters. And Bill is perfect, is a perfect human being.


And he does a great job with that. And so the whole combination of everything is just it's literally breathtaking. All right.


So let's go backwards to Wird, because just to put that in context, Bellucci dies, March of eighty two. And it's the culmination of somewhere between six and eight years of him leading a really hard life and him spiraling out of control. One of the things that they really didn't have back there was rehab centers and interventions.


And I think you heard Betty Ford open the year John died. Right. And you also had you know, this is an epidemic, this drug in Hollywood and sports and comedy and music, you name it, a lot of people are just not realizing how dangerous it is. So it's hard for some of them to intervene when there are also using a party and stuff like that. So he does. Everyone spun that is only three years old. And Judy, his widow brings Woodward in, who at that point is probably the most famous investigative reporter.


Hey, I really you know, I want you to find out what happened here. And she thinks it's going to be news stories. He ends up writing this book and everybody was blindsided. And I actually read the first three hundred pages of the book after I watched the documentary again because I had on my iPad. He's got everybody in that book. He, like Spielberg's, interviewed. He every SNL person is interviewed, all these different actors he talks to, you know, Robin Williams.


And I think people thought because it was Woodward, it was going to be the same love of the book. And as Al Franken pointed out years later, the book was the equivalent of reading somebody who wrote this account of your life in college called Puked. And it was just every story was about how you partied too much.


You threw up and it missed all the nuances of why all these people loved him and not even not even the new one best and missed everything.


So as you were doing your oral history, there was still that residue of I don't trust writers to to handle the John legacy. How did you handle that?


Usually with kneepads and begging. But I think it's also, I think, being keenly aware of the fact that there was a lot to tell that hadn't been told before. And I think that appealed to people, certainly with Akroyd and others, because they didn't want Wired to be the final word. They didn't want that to be what an entire generation remembered about John Belushi. I mean, there are three hundred sixty degrees of this guy. He can be John Belushi.


I mean, but the whole point is you just can't take 90 degrees at forty five degrees and then run with it and make that, you know, be the defining characteristics of who he was. And I think that's one of the great things that Cutler does here, which is we understand the dark side, we understand the light side. But it's such a it's such a beautiful combination of everything that John Belushi was.


Yeah, it definitely doesn't shy away from some of the drug stuff and especially including mentioning heroin.


Right. But they don't want one of the things that I appreciated was it didn't even mention who was with them when he died. And he was with that lady, Kathy Smith, who was really about as low as something about can we just say one thing about the ending, one about the death?


Yeah. This is so well done. It is stunning. I don't know if you remember, but, you know, you're cut and you can see maybe I'm just obsessed with it. But you can tell by the foliage that you're right outside the mind. Yeah. And all of a sudden he gets this tracking shot of this guy. We don't even know who the guy is. He's just a guy and he's walking right to us. And so you can't help but wonder, why are we talking, wise guy, you know, in the center of the shot?


And then the guy comes towards us and makes this left hand turn. And on the back of his jacket, you see corner. Yeah. And it's just like it just shakes you. I mean, it's just such beautiful editing and it's you know, you don't need any voiceover, you don't need anything. It's just he does such a wonderful job with the footage.


Well, and the other thing I so I had Jim Belushi on a couple of months ago and I, I could have easily started by saying your brother is one of my favorite people of all time. I didn't. And he he mentioned his brother a couple of times organically and then near the second half of the pod, we kind of eased into it a little bit. But I didn't want him to feel like I just want to get stories your brother out.


But the thing that struck me was he really like talking about his brother. And I think that's the recurring theme of all those people from now that the Wird was thirty five, thirty six years ago. I think they I think they're OK with, like, talking about what a special guy he was. And yeah, he had some demons, but for the most part they had never been anybody like him before or since. And I think that's the difference with him and other comics.


Usually comics are they're more like that Jim Carrey side. Right. We're just kind of really super weird and quirky or they're like saying they're like just an awesome guy, just has this dude's everybody loves him or people like that or like Eddie, where they just they close off everything by the age. They're twenty four. And they have their inner circle, and that's it, everybody shut out Bellucci, like belong to everybody. And I don't know if there was has been another comic like that.


Can you think of anybody? It's tough because he is so exceptional. And the other thing is and it shows itself in Saturday Night Live and Animal House and to a degree, Blues Brothers, a lot of comics are they go on stage. I mean, Eddie on stage, you you just can't take your eyes off of him. He's fantastic. Robin Williams. Belushi is like the leader of the pack. He's the alpha male. And he isn't in fact, he isn't threatened and he doesn't dismiss the idea of people around him.


He's always had people around him. He had people around them back in high school and college. And so as Chevy starts to wane and ultimately leaves SNL and John becomes one, says the alpha male, it's so easy to see everybody around. And then, of course, if you look at the script of mental health, the shooting script, you're not going to say Bluto is the breakout guy. Like you're not going to say, oh, my gosh, whoever gets to play the task is his goal.


From this moment on, it was the force of his expressions, his eyebrows, his the way he deals with an entourage and communicates. And everybody I mean, only on the stairs with Stephen Bishop probably is that is that singular Belushi moment. The rest of it is like he's getting he's trying to cheer people up. He's trying to be that bad boy. It's it's just the way he interacts, I think is singular for a comic.


How much pollution material did you have when you did your book that you were not using?


Did you have you must have had so much more than you actually use.


Yeah, that's that is the and it was the first time doing the oral history. So I have to say that that was a little heartbreaking because people, particularly in the course of an interview, then they'll say, you know, you can't use this. But and then it was just like, you know, the most incredible story. I mean, it happens on every book, but particularly with Belushi, it was just there was just a lot that people said, but that couldn't be used.


And it was frustrating and heartbreaking. But, you know, I mean, you got to obviously kind of pay attention and and go along with that.


Well, the other thing about him on SNL, you know, the relationship he had with that. Great. And the fact that two stars were the two dominant guys on the show, but also as close, that's never happened again on the show.


How can we just talk about Dan Aykroyd for a second? Because one of the things that this this documentary does and people have known it for decades, but this is this is a good man. Yeah. I mean, he's he's super talented. But remember, at no point Belushi becomes a real big star. Bill, do you see Akwe acting out? He's jealous. He's bitter. I mean, how many times have we seen that? I mean, my God, you've got to go back to Lewis and Martin for that kind of bitterness and jealousy.


There's nothing like that. He's always that Canadian is sitting there writing Ghostbusters for John. Yeah, John's going through this and he never says a negative word about him. And I mean, even Blues Brothers, I mean, it's obviously a buddy movie. But Akroyd has such a low level of ego and paranoia that he's always just letting Belushi take up whatever space Belushi needs. And I just think Dan Aykroyd doesn't get enough credit for being I mean, obviously, he's incredibly talented, but he's just like an incredible human being.


Yeah. And the Ghostbusters is a pretty sizable whatever for Belushi. If they have the whole rehab system in place, he clearly is in rehab at that point. You know, on the other hand, they tried you covered this in your book. They tried with Chris Farley. How many rehab stents did he have? Ten at some point. It just doesn't seem people maybe it wouldn't have taken with Bush. I don't know.


I mean, there was rehab before the Betty Ford Center, and there were ways in which people in the I mean, the studios in the nineteen forties used to send their starlets or stars to places to to to dry out or to take care. But I think that you have to be open to it. You have to go through it. I mean, it's a whole complex subculture. And obviously Chris Farley had many attempts. Ironic that when Chris Farley got to somebody like one of the first things he wanted to do was try on the oil pollution wardrobe and then wound up dying at the same age.


Well, and they kept referencing it to him. Do you want to end up like Bellucci? Like a widow is your idol, but you don't have to actually end up like him. But you think about like if Belushi somehow. Gets through it Ghostbusters, I would assume it would have been the Bill Murray part rate. For I think it would have been had to have been the part, because that was the funniest part of the movie. Yeah, but I think it would have just been very different.


I think according to Dan, I think he said before, though, I mean, obviously, when you're writing for John, it's not like anybody can just come in and even fill his role, I think was measured compared to what Alooshe would have done around Gholston in that outfit and everything else. Mean, I think that there was probably some changes, but yeah, I would have been natural.


Well, I think you know the most about the old SNL history of anyone I've met, but I'm probably a close second. There are a couple of things in there that I didn't know. Like, for instance, they showed that video of when Baluchis in L.A. and he sent the video back to Lorne with all the girls in the pool about, sorry, I can't be there. And Lorne ended up that easy. I remember reading the story in the books.


I didn't know the video existed and they fucking unleashed the video is unbelievable.


And Judy was like, OK. I mean, that video was startling on so many different levels. I mean, obviously, it was a kind of a certain kind of statement about his version of marriage at that time. But also, I think it was he wasn't aware. He wasn't aware of the optics. And I think one correctly points out, we can't put this on and we can't do this. This is crazy. And that's one of the things about Lorne Michaels.


If he bends, but he doesn't break, it's like he has done a lot of accommodating. But on something like that, the other thing and in the dark was when Belushi is sick and the doctor says he's afraid that if he goes on, he might die. And Lorne says, what are the percentages? And the doctor says, well, I think it's 50 50. And Lawrence says, basically, I can live with that. Right. That that is a side of Lorne Michaels that rarely that people rarely get to see.


Well, you know, all the old SNL is around Peacocke now. Anything that has any music, the sketches and in there. But for the most part, the bones of every show isn't so that that episode when they thought Belushi might die, was the one Kate Jackson hosted. And you can just go watch it on Peacocke like that opening scene is there. And Bellucci, up until when they said, all right, ready, action, Bellucci. They don't know if he's even coherent enough to be on stage.


So it's really weird that, you know, when you were doing your book and even way back when the when Helen Wagram did their book in the mid 80s, like they're they're just diving into the library of the stuff and we're kind of just trusting the writers take that this is what happened. It's weird that we can actually go and just watch this stuff now, right?


I don't know. That would have been very helpful when I was doing the book. But the truth is that there were time after time after time guest host who interviewed and said. It was like ten thirty or something, and they said they ran to the door and said, Baluchis passed out, we're going to have to like change that operates Katcher, we don't have to. And more times than not, they're like that. Don't worry, he'll be fine.


And that was also part of the reason why, like that strong Albanian stock, nobody thought even even though he was doing drugs and everybody was worried about him, they they somehow couldn't see him coming because he was he always got up and he always prevailed. I did think it was there was one note that Ricchiuti shows that she says she was afraid when he went to L.A. she couldn't go with him, that he might die. That was that was another incredibly poignant moment in the doc.


They cut they covered the stuff about Smokey the Bodyguard, which was always a fascinating Bellucci wrinkle, where he just basically they were paying this guy to basically protect him from himself, which is a rarity. But the guy I spoke worked for him and just over and over again was was forwarding all these people. I mean, one of the things look wired. I wish he had written the book differently and he did a bad job, only capturing one side of Belushi.


But if you read that book now, it's a pretty interesting snapshot of how bad cocaine was in L.A. in that era. And I think that's kind of what Woodward became more fascinated by, was this whole this whole community where basically everybody was doing drugs and nobody could help themselves and basically people were losing their minds. And I don't know if that's an accurate. No, I mean, look, Robin Williams, I mean, look, the list is long, but I think maybe it's instructive to just point out for a second, here's a guy that when he was 30 as the number one movie, number one album, number one show.


And so people might think, why does he need Coke and what is. But the truth is that, you know, sometimes, you know, you can't get away from yourself and for a good part of his life. And I think the doctors, some of that, John, was that there was a dark part of his of his being and he was sometimes insecure and sometimes depressed and sometimes unable to be, you know, who we think of him as being.


And that's part of the port of entry for the drunk. And I mean, it's just so weird because so many people out, why would he need them? Any and everything. But that's the devil, because that never explains it all.


Well, there's some good stuff in the Woodward book about that, ironically, because Judy was giving Woodward some of the letters and stuff and it was the same thing in the documentary. Belushi seemed like he had a lot of trouble. Kind of understanding what was what had happened to his life, where you're this dude who's in Second City and you're in lemmings and you're trying to work your way up and then you're on this this TV show, then all of a sudden it becomes the most important TV show for anybody under 30, you know, and you get watched by 20 million people and then you're an animal house and now you're the biggest movie.


Blues Brothers and distributors had to be in a position. Now you're on stage. And I think that's why Cutler led with that concert of nineteen seventy eight, a Bellucci with seven thousand fans singing with his buddy, because it's kind of like, all right, I've checked every box and I still don't feel great. Now what? And that's usually what happens to people who are on top who kind of self-destruct where they thought it was going to feel differently and it doesn't.


That old cliche about when the Lord wants to punish you, he answers your prayers. But I mean, like when I was in each of those seven people that first season when it probably hit the fifth or sixth show, they started getting noticed walking down the street in New York. And I remember Lorraine Newman's. That's that was just totally I mean, that just blew them away.


They weren't prepared for well, what's a girl that, like, terrified by it, like she would like run hiding people. People would come up and strangers. And sometimes you don't even know if they're going to be like attacking you or if they're her friend or you don't even know. And there wasn't a lot of training back then. And certainly they were just walking around the streets in New York and hanging out and everything else. And so I think it's a lot to get used to.


I mean, we see it with athletes for sure, and and rock stars and and people like this. But it really he was he was on the cover of Newsweek. I mean, this is this is he was the guy he owned the culture at that moment. And and I think that it wasn't as easy for him as a lot of people might imagine.


Yeah. It's a different level of fame back then. If you're on a hit TV show, it's twenty twenty five billion a week. You know, it's basically a Super Bowl audience. And and you also had less people, you know, and you had less people on TV so that you had this outsized importance than a movie like Animal House. When that hits, you know, it makes three hundred million or whatever made. But now it'd be like if it made three, three billion, you know, and everybody went to see it.


But the other thing is, if this happens a lot, if you think about what was going on his 30th birthday, so all the success that he has and then you decide to do Continental Divide or neighbors, and it's not I mean, not every movie is going to be as gigantic as Animal House or even as fun and basically great as Blues Brothers. But boy, oh, boy, if you do something and the audience doesn't like it, then you have to deal with that.


And I think that was hard as well as saw neighbors.


I must have been 12. And it was so disappointed, and even as at age 12, I was like, why, why didn't they switch roles? Why wasn't Bellucci the crazy guy? But that was part of what attracted the movie is I now know what we're going to go against the stereotypes. And meanwhile, that was the catastrophic decision. Well, yeah, I, I'm glad that this this exists. I think sometimes Romo and I just talked about it actually, because he had that football life documentary that I thought was a good snapshot of his career.


Sometimes if you do these documentaries correctly, you know that then they they live on the same way a book does. And I feel like this the Bellucci thing, we needed something like this that finally happened. I think so.


And I feel really sorry for anybody else who's been planning to do a flu shot because I don't think they left a lot of meat on the bone. I think for the first time, for the first time between if you want to include any of the books that have been written. But I think now people can generally have a real understanding of who John Belushi was for better, for worse, and more importantly, why people like Judy Belushi and Dan Aykroyd and others were so dedicated to him and so loyal to him for so long because there was something just beyond agonizing.


It was compelling about him that you just you just couldn't get him out of your system.


And even beyond the inner circle, people, people, his other friends like guys like Tim Kasserine ski there is like another another few dozen people who just were ferociously defending his memory and the wire thing. There's never really been anything like that wird book where Hollywood like literally revolted against that book. And then when they made the movie with Michael Chiklis, it was like Michael Chiklis was on the outs of Hollywood for seven years after because he played Bellucci talk about bad food and small portions.


I mean, God damn, we're going to we're going to take this book out. We're going to make it a movie. It's like, wow, that was that was brutal. That was that that had no chance. That had no chance.


But I'm glad this existed. And and I thought they did. As somebody who really cares about this stuff, I thought they hit all the right notes. Before we go, though, SNL had Jim Carrey playing Biden for five weeks there. And it became pretty clear after week one that this was not a good idea. And they said they committed to it. They kept going with it. I don't know what version of Biden that was. It got slightly better by the fifth episode, but never really worked.


What was your take as the ultimate SNL follower slash chronicler watching this unfold?


Look, it was a very specific choice. I think there's two quick things, which is, one, you start to realize, oh, I guess there wasn't anybody on the cast that could step up to the role. And for many, many years and decades, in fact, there always was. So you look outside and you think, oh, my gosh, we're going to be if he wants to do it, can we really turn down the star quality of Jim Carrey?


And at that point, it's a very specific choice. And it was a physical. It was it was just a physical, physical kind of impersonation. And the thing that I think the reason why I don't think it worked, particularly in terms of SNL history, is because every great presidential impression always had. There was a physical component, but it always had another layer when like Phil Hartman is Clinton goes into McDonalds and starts in everybody's burger and fries and stuff.


It's going to tell you something else about the when Will Ferrell is doing w you know, people always arguing, is it good for you or is it bad? Well, some people thought, you know, it makes them out to be like a guy you want to have a beer with, you know, but like the words treachery and all that stuff, there's always multidimensional understanding. And it took you into a different kind of level, like real political satire.


And with we'll go back to Chevy Chase with Ford, like he didn't look anything like them, but it was all the physical stuff.


And not only that, but Ford was a it was a great football player. They just, you know, I mean, he was falling all over the place, but they but it's stuck. You know, it's stuck. And I think that the thing that Kerry didn't do was it didn't give us another dimension of who Joe Biden is or who he could be or anything else. And so I think that's one of the reasons why it didn't work. Yeah, it was too bad.


I mean. You and I have we've we've talked about this in the past, but to not have a cast member playing either of the presidential candidates to me is just it's a very strange time for the show. And it made me think like even when you see the blue shoe thing, how that that the cast was everything for the show, the guest host would come in. But the cast was in everything. A lot of the times, especially in the first 10 years, the opening segment would always be cast members or, you know, playing off each other.


They'd bring internal stuff onto thing. They would vote. They were always pushing the cast and it was cast, cast, cast. And now it's like they the the show seems like it's drifted toward the most important people on the show are the celebrities that drift through the orbit and the cast is marginalized. And I don't know whether it's because Lorne doesn't believe in the cast members he has or whether the show has just become, you know, like almost like addicted to celebrity, which is really weird because it should be parodying these people over, like relying on them for the sketches.


I don't get it right.


I mean, it that's that's the big question people ask because, look, it's not a small cast, but.


Know they have like 14 people. It's a big cast. And you would think that it's probably a decision that they've made that they'd like this stunt casting and this the star quality to give some lift. But it's not the way it has been for for from for basically the majority of the show's history.


But by the way, how are you going to build the next generation of stars if you're not giving them the most important parts on your show? That's the other part I don't get like Will Ferrell. You know, you think back to ninety five. He was a force of nature, right, like that. It was going to happen for him. But there's been other people where, you know, like Cartman. Hartman was the glue guy, everybody kind of loved them, but I don't feel like he really vaulted to the next level until the Clinton stuff and that was what really nailed him.


I think Fero became a bigger star doing W. in two thousand and even like something like Norm MacDonald doing Bob Dole at that elevated him up a level. And I think that's the piece they've missed. Like not having a cast member playing Trump the last four years is just inexplicable to me. And they're throwing away the Biden thing. Even if you were doing, you could have done a weekend at Bernie's thing with Biden, where he just comes on and he's got two guys dressed like Andrew McCarthy and the other guy next to him.


And they're just kind of holding Biden up and but I just don't get it.


That's satire. I mean, how's it going back to Dan Aykroyd playing Richard Nixon and Jimmy Carter? There was always that other level that he was where they were telling us something about the person. And sometimes it was like a de facto branding of that person. It was like that's how they that's how the country started to see that person, because that was just so well done. Right. Well, remember remember, one of the best ones I ever did going way, way back was when Aykroyd's Jimmy Carter and he's taking calls in the one guy's like he took bad acid or something.


And it is like, what do I do? And it's like, do you have any Allman Brothers? And Carter is like walking them through. Had to come off an acid trip. It's ridiculous. It would never happen. But that was the point. It was it was what you said about take the person, then add the funny layer to it, and now you got something to do. That's what they lost with this. You remember the Pepsi syndrome, one of the longest sketches in SNL history.


What year was that? I think seventy seven or seventy eight. Oh, the China Syndrome ripoff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're Carter becomes the amazing, colossal president. But there are so many Jimmy Carter lines in there that are just out. Right? I mean, they're just so funny and they're so telling. And it just makes you think of Carter in a different way. That's what didn't happen.


Well, I wonder if your SNL right now, this is a country that has lost its sense of humor for a variety of reasons and a bunch of different ways. And a lot of the stuff that you would parody now or push buttons with. I think people are afraid to do it. Like even think back to the Belushi era and stuff like the Claudine Claudine Launch Ski Invitational. Yeah. Oh, she's another skiers, but accidently shot by a cloudy lunch.


And it's like I don't feel like the show would do that now because people back. Hey, Claudine, lounge's husband died. Like, that's that's not cool. You should apologize. How do you do comedy in that era?


This is a really rough time. I mean, I was just writing about it for the book and you couldn't do it now. I mean, you want to compete with what's going on now. You can't even make it up. I mean, 90 percent of what happens in the political sphere over the last four years, if you put in a script, the studio would send it back and say, oh, cut it out. You're pushing too far now.


It's not realistic now. You've gotten too crazy. But there it is every day on our know, on our sets and on our on our timeline. So I just I think it's really difficult. And they have to figure that out. They they have to figure that out starting January.


Yeah, I'm not even sure. If they had a breakout star. You know, maybe it's not this year, but next year, if you have, like the Will Ferrell moment or Hartman or whatever, like what would what would that person be doing to break out? Because I think it's probably like the Kate McKinnon way of just like you're playing these crazy characters, doing it that way. But in terms of like being cultural critics, which I think was such an important piece of SNL for so many years, you got to be willing to take the hits with it.


You've got to be willing to kind of if you're going to push the line, you're going to go over the line every once in a while. You got to be ready to take the backlash for that. And I'm not sure the show's ready for the backlash with stuff which which means they're going to make safe choices.


The history of SNL reads like an EKG. And there have been times when, you know, in eighty five or eighty in eighty five other years where people thought it was EOA and somehow they come back. And I think that I think that the Biden administration is going to be a fresh start for the show. And they got a right to a different level. And by the way, I miss Reoccurred sketches. You know, I think they used to be so much of the show.


It shows history. We had, you know, whether it was like the lovers are going back to Belushi in several different examples, a million. And we don't have those anymore. And I think that that's going to be something that I think would be fun as well.


Well, here's the thing with SNL. You made the key point. It's it's always going to come back. And I'm sure I would always bet on the show finding its stride and and figuring it out, figuring out the landscape. I am amazed that nobody's trying to challenge the. That they have through the years, Howard Stern. I don't I'm saying right now that Netflix hasn't just looked at this and crunched some algorithm and said, like, hey, we should just go after these dudes and come up with a Friday night show and we could push the envelope in a way that maybe they can't.


But I think I've said this to you for the last four years and it's never happened before.


And I think SNL is on a mission right now. Right. You got four more years to the fiftieth anniversary. I fully expect Lorne to stay on. I think that they're going to pay for that. I think that they're going to do everything they can. But I but I do think some of the things that we're talking about now are going to be essential to to that level.


The big thing for me and then will go is just like trust your cast members. If you hired, especially if you're going to have a 14 person cast, let them cook, let the chefs get the kitchen, try to build some new stars like you can't just rely on these cameos. That's the thing that drives me nuts anyway. All right. Fattiness. Yeah. Oh, I meant to ask you, by the way, because I was asking about some of this.


Do you think Keenan could host a late night show? I think you can do anything. I think he's I think he's a dark horse because I'm watching this Fallon stuff, Fallon got rid of another executive producer and I know they renewed him for a year. But at some point, if that showed as a rebound, we know with late night right at it's when you least expect it. And I, I feel like Kenan could host one of those shows everybody likes.


I think Seth would be moving over before it went to anybody.


You know, I assume Seth was going to move up.


I'm saying like four, if you talk about somebody to enter that 11, 30, 12, 30 landscape as somebody in the wings or whatever, I could see kind of being a guy, I would say if I were his manager, that's kind of like a Porsche going 40, because his physicality, his ability to do different impersonations, I mean, it would have to gravitate to almost like a composite talk show, slash sketch show or something in order to take advantage of all that he does.


But maybe that's what maybe that's how you win, though. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe that's the new formula. But he he's so good at that and he has saved so many shows and there's so many sketches where it's kind of average. And then just his performance is, I mean just otherworldly. I'm buying and stock. I think something happens with him. Because I just feel like if he started a show, I would give the first episode a chance, so I'm going to find that where I put a little 20 to one odds on it could be a production.


Jim Miller. Great to see you as always. Thanks for the tip. Glad we got to talk about about somebody we both really liked a lot. And happy holidays. OK, thank you too. Thanks for having me.


That's it for the best podcast. Happy holidays, everybody. Don't forget about the Book of basketball podcast with Kevin Garnett.


He's not on it. It's just me and Jack McMahon breaking down his career essay at the top. If you haven't listened as podcast, please check them out. Enjoy the rest of the week. Stay safe. See you Sunday night, Whittaker's.