Tonight in the best podcast, my old Grantland teammate Zach Lowe is coming out to talk about the twenty 20 NBA finals and we're going to play a game that will enrage a lot of basketball fans.

I'm also doing million dollar pix. That's all next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Dotcom and the Ringer podcast network, where we are still cranking out all kinds of podcasts. Don't forget about the hour to see two podcasts with CC Sabathia and Ryan Ryuko. They came on late after a Yankee game this week. It's really fun here. And talk about the Yankees and getting frustrated about some of these games and some of the moments and things like that.

I'm starting to get into the baseball playoffs. Just in case you're wondering the Mookie Betts thing. I'm starting to get pulled. Then I'm really rooting for that guy. I love Mookie Betts, man. It's tough. It's tough when your favorite players leave. Anyway, Zach Lowe coming up next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam.

All right, Michael Grantly and teammate Zach Lewis here, we're taping this is three o'clock Eastern Time, one day before a game five of the 2020 finals. I wrote that footnote title column like eight years ago because I don't like asterisks for titles, but I do like footnotes.

I think we have to add the footnotes Miami Dragic going down Adebayo missing two games. I feel like ultimately from what we've seen with the size of the Lakers I think they win anyway and in general I don't see the giant footnote here, but I am going to always wonder what it would have been like if the healthy Miami team that we saw in round three, what that could have looked like potentially, especially with Dragic. Where did you land on that question?

This is the third finals in the last six years where injuries have completely screwed up the series, right, like last year, Golden State's decimated by the end. First Cleveland Golden State series, Love and Kyrie are out for almost the entirety, in this case in the entirety and Love's case. I just like it's a fact of life, man. All you can do is if you really went back through every playoff run ever, you'd find an injury of some import.

I do. I think the Heat are a great story and a great team and I do wish we had it is a bummer after all this time that we haven't seen their real team. But I don't it's like you said, it's a footnote. Everything's got to football. But I don't I just think this is how it works.

One thing we didn't see from the heat in those first five games and the thing that I thought made them so dangerous in the first three rounds and especially against Boston, is they could be being outplayed and then Robinson would hit four threes and a quarter or Dragic would hit two contested step back twenty eight footers, or Tyler Harris would either take over a quarter or in the case of that one Boston playoff game, the entire game. Why do you think that hasn't happened yet in any of these five games?

How did they lose that, that kind of irrational confidence heat check factor. Do you think it's nerves or is it something the Lakers are doing?

I don't know. I mean, like Robinson, I feel like you're right. He usually has a game in a series where he gets off. But I feel like teams have done a good job. He's got a weird place where I feel like good teams have done a good job containing him. And his impact is still enormous because he just runs around so hard and it's such unpredictable ways that, like, if he takes four shots, he's still enormously impactful.

Hero had to one random game. Right. Other than that, he's been just decent and drawbridges obviously hurt. You know, I guess you have to credit the Lakers perimeter defense, right? I mean, I think their guys have done a really good job chasing Roberson and Hero both. And when you have LeBron and and ready to switch out and whatever, like it's hard to do. Maybe it's maybe it's tomorrow night, though. Maybe we still get one series isn't over yet.

It was my favorite quality of that team and the most frustrating quality about them actually having my favorite team play them in a playoff series where you feel like things are going great and you look at it, you're like, how are we not have twenty? Oh, because Duncan Robinson made four threes in six minutes or oh man those Iguodala those four threes out of nowhere. What the fuck happened there. And these little moments that they would have. I thought they looked nervous in game one and game two.

They didn't look like themselves and I know they had injuries in game one that threw them off. And then game two I just think they didn't look like themselves. The thing that I was surprised by, they they weren't one of those fifty fifties anymore. They weren't they weren't getting their hands on balls, things like that. And even game three was a weird game, but there was just unbelievable. I mean that was the reason they won game four.

They actually looked like the heat and yet they lost and and I don't know if I'm coming out of that game. I'm like, man, we actually did everything we wanted in that game. What what is the next adjustment?

Now, what's funny? You say that because I have a preview column coming up tomorrow. They wanted me to preview a game five. And I basically that's what I wrote, is I feel like every playoff series reaches a point where, like, the equilibrium has been reached, like all the adjustments are done, like you got little tweaks here and there, but like all the big moves have been made. It is just like my best and your best.

And we all know what's coming. And yeah, I'm going to add fun wrinkles on top of this and that. But like, we all know it, and I feel like Game four was that point in the series. And I don't know, I think they could have some adjustments like little adjustments here or there. But barring a return for Dragic, which seems unlikely, I think. I don't know that there's a big swing here, but I agree with you.

I thought game four. I thought the whole game, the Heat are going to steal this game. I just feel like they're going to steal it. They're going to steal it. And then Butler had that corner three that would have put him up late in the game and it didn't go in and that could be hit a three. And that was kind of the beginning of the end. But I thought credit to the heat that I thought the whole game they were going to win.

I think they thought they were going to win. That was the first time they really carried themselves like the heat. And it was funny because Butler missed that corner three and it was the same red corner of the court where he made that dagger three against the Celtics as a Celtics fan.

I've just watched this whole series going, oh, really, hero? Now you're now you're going to miss that one. Really? Robinson Like, why this round? Why not around to go?

So frustrating, big missed opportunity for the Celtics and that missed opportunities that he took it from them, but they did. I do think they would have given the Lakers a good series and and I probably would have picked the Lakers to win that series. But I think it would have been a good series was funny if we were texting the other day about that game. For that we thought the Heat. But still, can you imagine I text you. I think it's the biggest.

And like post game narrative, based on the result in the recent history of the finals, like if the Heat win that game and it's true, too, it's like DEFCON one, like kind of a broad blow.

This what does this mean for his legacy? He's not the goat. And now it's like Ho-hum. The Lakers took control of the series.

He felt like he sensed that maybe not the goat narrative part, but there was a moment, the third quarter, Russell and I talked about it on Tuesday night when he got he had that look, that real urgent look that scared, urgent and was really, really holding everyone accountable. He took that long twenty eight footer that I felt like he felt like he had to make to swing the momentum in the game and to give his team a little confidence.

And I really liked how he played. I was thinking a lot. I went back and read some of the stuff I wrote about him in 2010 and 11. And you think about that Dallas series. I thought Cuban had an interesting quote about it. Actually, I think I read it today about how he was talking about LeBron? S basketball IQ and how it's evolved and how in 2011 they were basically able to break his brain. And a couple of those games were on during the pandemic hiatus when they're just showing old basketball games.

And you can you can see him thinking and it was like that in person to where he's just like. I can't solve this, I know what they're doing, I don't have the answer and what's been interesting, the whole playoffs, but especially this series, they start out with the zone. LeBron just solves it. Then they take game four. They figure out how to defend Davis. They're getting out on the road players. They're letting certain guys shoot that they want to shoot.

And LeBron, you could see him in that second half like, all right, here's what they're doing. I'm solving it. How important do you think 2011 was to him? Because I feel like that was the pivotal two weeks of his career. When we look at the totality of it now.

Well, it's also as luck would have it, I've spent much of the pandemic and much of the last month watching old Jordan games and LeBron James kind of. Because of the last dance, I did a bunch of podcasts about Jordan and then the decision anniversary came and I wanted to write about the Heat teams. Yeah, and you watched that twenty 11 series. And I watched a couple of the games at least added to the difference in spacing. Like they've got Anthony and Haslem out there together here and they're like, there's just no space for LeBron to do anything.

Yeah. And you come away from that thinking, man, if they had moved to Boschert Center, I'm not sure what the future of that how many rings they get and LeBron in that series. It's the biggest difference between him and Jordan is that Jordan has this sheen of perfection and LeBron has this huge black mark on his career ticket, eight points in one of those games. Remember that you remember that stat? It was his lowest usage rate like of his career, not just playoffs, but regular season in that game four.

That's the game.

He had eight points. You know what? Jordan's career low in the NBA finals games.

It's got to be like twenty one. Twenty two. Yeah. Like, he's just it's just totally now in terms of his importance to his career.

Yeah. I mean, look, I guess he had two choices, which is either sulk and let this get in my head forever. Right. And every time I get to a big stage, it's in my head or just move on and reinvent parts of my game. And he chose the latter. So I guess in that sense it's a turning point. But historically, it's still it's it's really weird. It's still really weird. So the year before was weird, too.

Yeah. Magic at that point, right after the eighty four finals, they're calling him Tragic Johnson and I was kind of a come to Jesus moment for him. And and if you look at eighty five through ninety, he's basically the best player in the league that whole stretch.

But ironically Dirk had that after that we believe like no Dirk went to the Australian outback and grew a beard and contemplated life for a while like nobody knew where he was. And then he came back stronger for it. And that's what makes it fun.

But that actually that might have been the worst example of it that actually almost broke him. I mean, it took him, I would say, a couple of years to come back from that and then they had to fit the right team around him. But yeah, Dirk, that was a four year odyssey to get to that point. He ends up leaving the court after they win because he knows he's just going to completely break down, doesn't want to, doesn't want the cameras on him.

But yeah, I think a lot of great players went through that and LeBron the 11 finals and then the Celtics in 2012, really just punching him and and challenging his manhood and all the things that happened there.

But I don't think I've ever asked you about this. Maybe we have. Did you think the Celtics were going to win that series when they were up three, two? I think you were at game six, weren't you? We had talked about that game, but did you in your soul feel like, holy shit, we're actually going to do this? Or did you think I'm so scared that LeBron is going to come out and do what he ended up doing?

I 100 percent thought they're going to win and everybody in the building did, too. That was the most electric nine finals crowd I think I'd been in since like the bird era because people really felt like we were breaking the heat. You know, they lose the year before and then in 2012, they're the favorites again in LeBron as an MVP year. But then the cells go up three, two, and they just seem tougher than them. And they were really they're talking so much shit.

And that team had such a swagger. You know, it was an older team. It certainly was the best Celtics team. But between the Big Three and Rondo, who is officially Rondo at that point, just real, real macho swagger to them. And they felt like they broke LeBron. And then he comes out for that game in in Iowa. It's them. And you knew pretty much immediately, you know, within a half hour. I don't want to get on LeBron tangent now, but that's what makes part of what makes his career so interesting is like and the heat's so interesting is that every kind of dynastic team usually has a moment for a playoff run where they just feel like totally unbeatable, like just unbeatable.

And the Heat never had that. Like, even the next season when they win again, Pacers take them to seven like that. And the Pacers team, that wasn't that good. They just never the Heat never had their run when they looked unbeatable. Was that twenty, twelve, thirteen season when they won twenty seven in a row. But then in the playoffs they had to slog, it just never had a playoff run. It was like, oh, this is inevitable, they're going to kill everybody.

I was going to say, weirdly, the streak became the legacy of that team. Yeah. Because that streak was amazing as it was happening, they were killing teams. The spotlight was a modern spotlight. Right. Social media is in play at that point. The whole basketball Internets and played the twenty four seven sports culture is in play and they're killing teams. And I went back and read what I wrote about that recently, and I had forgotten that there was the thirtieth game of that streak would have been Spurs Sunday night on NBA TV and the Spurs were the second best team and everybody was so focused on holy shit, spurs, heat, heat gone four thirty.

That's going to be the biggest regular season game in fifty years. And then Chicago, really either Luol Deng, Jimmy Butler, Noah and LeBron I, I wrote about in that game LeBron went to a level in that game on both ends that I don't think I've ever seen before. Remember, he started guarding Heinrich and he was letting go. I don't remember that he was letting Heinrich go by him so he could block his layup from behind, which I had never seen it, maybe in like high school games or something.

But you talked about that when you wrote that heat piece recently. How many months? It was that, I don't know, time has lost all meaning sometimes, sometimes the decision, so it must have been July. There's two things with that heat team that I think have gotten lost historically. One was how incredible of a two way part of LeBron was at that point where, you know, and I'm guilty of this, too. I always mention Pippen.

I mentioned Kawhi probably Iguodala third as great as perimeter defenders. But I think LeBron during that two year stretch when he could guard Tony Parker, he could guard Paul George, he could guard Dirk Nowitzki like he basically could guard everybody from six eleven to six feet and was an unbelievable help defender. And I kind of forget that.

I got to remind myself to remember that I watched I watched a couple of the twenty thirteen finals games last week. He's everywhere. Everywhere, everywhere. I mean, that's like barely even in except I know it's hyperbole, but it's like barely hyperbole. He is all over the place disrupting everything. And when he really gets into Tony Parker, it's like you feel bad for Tony Parker.

What is this is he's being mean to him, right.

It's a little like when Davis was guarding Butler on some of these possessions. You're like, all right, if I'm Jimmy Butler, what do I do? I'm not taking Anthony Davis off the dribble. What's what's my answer?

How about shoot an open twenty footer? Well, he's going to open three. I mean, what he's going to have to do hard to rosett where he's just absolutely refusing to even look at the rim. I don't understand why that happened.

Now, he obviously had a mindset it's going to shift in this game. The other thing with LeBron that year and I went to Game six because I was doing TV that year and I remember that fourth quarter he played when they're down three two in game six and he plays I, I think I even wrote it at the time, the greatest nine minute stretch of basketball I think I'd ever seen him play.

He was literally everywhere. He wouldn't let them loose and then finally ran out of steam near the end. Nobody was helping him. Misses the big three. And if the Spurs get the rebound, it's over. But I still feel like that streak probably took too much out of them. And I think that same thing happened with the words in twenty sixteen. I know it sounds like an excuse, but when you're playing basically hard core playoff games during the regular season like that game after game with the bulls eye in the crowd and the energy of it, and you've got to go all out.

I just that's not what the regular season is for. And I think it really hurt both of those teams.

Well, this is the flip side of the Jordan being a bit of the what if Jordan doesn't go play baseball? Thing is, I think Curry has talked about this a lot. Steve Kerr like, do they get the second three peat, Michael? Because you see, even in the last dance he's worn out by the end of the second one, you know what I mean? Like, it just takes such a toll on you. So everyone's like, well, they could have seven and one in the finals or, you know, in the finals.

And all the people on those both teams have said, yeah, I wouldn't draw the through line that directly.

The ninety five team would not have beaten anybody because they didn't have the rebounding at that point. That was the year where they didn't have the horse grant right here in Orlando. Yeah. It just it just wasn't happening. The other the other thing about twelve thirteen heat that I think got lost is. There's I think the narrative now, especially with the casual basketball fans, they're like medium casual basketball fans, is that the Warriors invented small ball. And it's been really a twenty first century.

Evolution, right? You could even go back to the early 2000s and those Jim O'Brien Celtics teams, there's there's crazy. Yeah, there's a crazy Baron Davis here for the Hornets where he shoots like eight hundred threes. Then you have the Warriors mid 20s, you have the great Celtics had that line up with Posey and House and Ray Allen and Pierce when they could go small. And they're basically playing the way people by now. The Heat were the first team in 2013, the first really good team that was like, this is who we are when when we do this, it opens up all these things.

When Bosh plays the five, LeBron has more space. When we put when we can play Miller and round at the same time. And have weighed room in the baseline with LeBron and Bosh, it's unstoppable, nobody can figure out how to defend it and I think that's been lost, that they were kind of the first, like, truly successful, small but small ball of the time team. Right?

Well, you have the Suns, right, that had a Marriotts center when they would put marionettes to four and five and people arguably they didn't win the championship. So you can't anoint them as the, quote, successful one. But, you know, the difference is when Miami had all four of Bosh, LeBron, Wade and Battier on the floor, you have bad apples to mention. Those are four elite defensive players. Even Wade is his knees start to go, is still smart enough and can get up enough like when he has to at the rim that he was a really good defender.

Like that was always like so many teams that went small with sacrifice defense to do it, and they did not sacrifice defense to do it. Do you remember we saw that at the finals that year and he wasn't playing anymore. And and he was pissed, but it was basically like, don't use this, but I'm pissed. And then he ended up, I think in game seven, came up masteries six, maybe seven.

Yeah, they took him out of the attic. But that's what happens with some of these some of these finals runs. And I'm sure we're going to remember this Lakers thing, assuming they win where you're like, man, remember that Lakers team are like Rondo.

It was came out of cobwebs, was certainly making impact crunch time plays. And Caldwell Pope, who we made fun of for three years, was this essential game for a guy. That's what happens every year, though.

We should always say, no, we don't win game four with an average KCP a I mean, maybe somebody else steps up, but everything else the same. They need a real good KCP game to sneak that game out.

So game game five quickly. Actually, let's take a break. We'll come back talking first.

Game five. I'm not willing to just say Miami's losing because I think that team has so much character that is not a we will roll over a team. I think I remember it like a good example is the 2012 finals when OKC was toe to toe with Miami, those first four games and really could have been up three one. It's like three players had gone differently. But by the time we got to game five, I think is over, I think all of us felt that it was like you kind of missed your shot.

And I think in this one, I don't 100 percent feel that way because of how tough Miami is like that. This is the quote unquote Heat culture that's been everyone's been beating the ground the last few weeks. It's not a roll over team. I don't expect them to roll over. But that the support for me is. What does Davis have in store for this game, because after game two. I was really recalibrating my pyramid, this trying to figure out like this guy in the top 40 now, like this guy.

This is one of the most dominant two way performances by a big band we've seen in the last 30 years and a playoff run. And then he disappears in game three completely. Game four had a really important and I thought defensive impact, but I would say they unlocked them a little bit.

I really watched most of the game before yesterday to write this column. And he was like even better on defense that I remembered from watching it in real time to the point that I think because of game three, people kind of ended the finals MVP debate, both because Miami once who was premature and because LeBron was so much better than they did in that game. I think we'll see what happens in game five. Like I think his defense on Butler was so essential to them squeaking out game four that he still has a case.

That's where I was getting to, I think is a case, too. I don't think he'll win because this is the the LeBron generation. And I so, you know, if you're the best player in a team, I feel like you should win the finals MVP unless something dramatic happened at the 07 Spurs still doesn't sit right with me. But Duncan was the best player in the league that whole year. Parker got hot for a couple of games against the terrible Cavs team.

And then that's how it goes down for the rest of eternity. But I think. As important as LeBron was, especially from an emergency standpoint, some of the stuff you did in the second half, I still felt like Davis was the most important player. That game I watched the second half to, he was just everywhere. It was it was like a vintage garnette after seven cups of coffee kind of defensive performance. And he just swallowed up everything.

And I've never seen a team pass up that many layups. They had layups. They were so nervous about him. It was like watching Vintage to Kemba Mutombo or something. He's only six eleven. I was surprised.

You still need LeBron to orchestrate everything, though. Yeah, I mean, you still you still need someone to get everyone to their places and run the sets. And and obviously LeBron does way more than that. But you know, and LeBron, like you were saying before, how LeBron since like we did this game, there was a play with like six minutes left in the fourth quarter where the Lakers had a defensive breakdown and he was pissed about it.

Oh, yeah. And they brought the ball up and he ran a pick and roll with whoever was Duncan Robinson's man, I think.

And he split the hedge so hard, like put his head down, like threw the ball in front of him almost and went up and, like, power through an end one. It was like angry LeBron, like kind of reserving his energy for when he but that was a moment where he was like, this game is now at stake and I'm pissed and I'm fucking scoring. And it was like one of those vintage like he revs it up back to twenty twelve levels for just a bit.

There was another play Kuzma screwed up. And they got a fast break layup and LeBron was furious, and I think they called a timeout or a 20 second there to stop it, and he came back down and the ball went to Koosman the corner and Kuzma made it. He made it three I think it was in the fourth quarter and it was one of those shots where it's like he missed it. I'm not sure we ever see him again. He may be in the woods like the Russian the in The Sopranos because of their defensive breakdown of the mystery.

That would have been it. We never would have seen him again, but he actually came through. I do feel like he's been able to bring out better versions of some of these guys. I don't think Caldwell Pope is a good serviceable basketball player, but he's looked like it in the finals. You know, he's the kind of swingman that I'm not crazy about, but he's been hitting threes at a decent rate and he plays really hard. And at some point that's enough if you're with LeBron.

Well, I think he's been really impressive attacking off the dribble when they run him off when I'm off the arc and like he had five assists, he's been making plays, the one I did not see coming, like, at all. And in fact, I thought like maybe he's washed up. Is Markieff Morris like I goes completely wrong about Markieff. Morris did not see this kind where you were you completely wrong.

At one point I was like maybe they should try Jared Dudley like in the first round I was like maybe you should. And Markieff Morris is like I don't know what he's turning into but it dude's making shots and he's in the right places defensively and I kudos to Rob Hlinka and because I did not see that one coming to fruition and I'm looking at his stats, I agree with you, I thought he was washed.

The thing is, it's hard to assess when every single three that somebody is taking is open by five feet, you know, like so in that game, it felt like Morris was having huge impact. He was two four eight two four seven four three eight seven three zero wide open. But I think what I what I'm agreeing with you, what I liked about it is he seemed confident. And sometimes that's kind of all all you need from your euro.

Guys like the Celtics would have that issue where as they dipped into their bench, which they've spent seventy hundred first round picks on, and they would just bring these dudes in and it's like, oh, they're semiannually from the corner. This isn't going in. This has no chance.

So it's really probably shot forty plus percent on quarter threes this year. And you somehow had no faith that. None, zero, zilch. Wannamaker although I will say I was texting my friend Hej Thursday night, our Tuesday night. I was like, I think I'd rather have Wannamaker than Kendrick but. I think I finally found a playoff backup point guard at least want to have over Wannamaker disastrous. I think Ray Williams has a chance to be a good role player for a long time.

And I think, like the Celtics are high on Langford, like we didn't see a lot of them. I mean, I trust their guys. They're high on Mike. We'll see.

You know, they're high in Langford until he gets traded with Gordon Hayward in all three first round picks for Buddy Hield, then they won't be as high. It's not. Bet you like that one right expiring contract three first round picks for Buddy.

Twenty billion dollars is a lot. Twenty four. Twenty four. Whatever it is it's a lot now. But if you're talking to Hayward. Lankford and one of the three picks for Buddy Hield in Sacramento could get out of the Hayward contract in a year and they solve the Buddy Hield Bogdanovich headache they have. It's pretty interesting.

Did you see that story in The Athletic by Jason Jones about Buddy Hield is not returning Luke Walton's text messages or something like that.

What are we going to make of the twenty five game winning streak that Luke Walton presided over compared to the rest of his career as a coach?

TBD because LeBron was out on him in like a minute and a half?

Yeah, I got I got it. I think I got the Buddy Hield story. I don't know. We'll see.

I mean I think the Kings, they're going to try to make the playoffs next year like it was a weird season where they they started out playing super slow, even though they have like the fastest point guard in the NBA. That was a little bit better. And then Buddy came off the bench and he was mad about it, but it kind of worked like they started winning more. Next year is going to be telling for them.

I think they had to pick between Buddy and Bogdanovic, but I'm I'm still a Bagley supporter, even though I'm taking him over. Luka was one of the five dumbest things I can remember in a draft until Atlanta then traded the pick. But remember, you don't follow this stuff and I was texting you. As this was happening, I was like, this is a generational disaster. Well, all right, I trust all the draft picks I trust. Both in the media and with teams, we're just all Luca, Luca, Luca, like all of them are good, like Luca is going to be has a chance to be a generational superstar.

Marvin Bagley is good. Like, that was good. They could be good. Like he hasn't really played in the last year and a half. But it's so tough. I mean, it's there's no way to come back from it. It's a documentary. You can make a documentary about that draft. I would love to know, like Phoenix is semi defensible because I do think eight is good and they have Booker. And it seemed like they had some inside intel on Luca from Coach Igor, who if he had loved them, something funky was going on there.

And then the Sacramento thing, there was definitely some Dibadj stockage. No, no, no, you're saying that there is some back story with that, that I think Igor Kokoschka like Luchador, I don't think there was any. Any negative intel, that's a. I don't think I don't think I don't think that.

I don't think that pick was about ego or it'll on Booker together would be magnificent and we really would have enjoyed that. Yeah, well, that would have been really fun.

So you think, Sandra, the theme of the bubble felt like you've got to go. Got to go. You know, let's see what they do next year in the bubble and almost make the playoffs or some cap space of cap space exists whenever the next season starts.

So you think finals MVP is still kind of open a little bit?

I think it should be I think it should be, yeah, I mean, if I agree, if game five's close and it's like thirty five, fifteen and five blocks and is the best player on the floor, I think I'd probably vote for him.

I don't have a vote, but I thought he had the edge. After two games he stunk in game three and I think they were kind of Cohon VPs, the game four. But LeBron is LeBron and it's going to be hard to take away. Do you feel like you must feel this as a well known basketball voice in a in a wilderness of knowing everything? LeBron is a little like Beyonce, where if you say anything that's not 100 percent positive, people just get so upset.

There's like a LeBron hive.

But there's also first of all, I'm not really familiar with how the Beyoncé hive operates, because that's that's Joe Wheelhouse. I do like Beyonce. It's fun. I just. But not really tweeting about Beyonce. You're talking about her very often and like my regular life. But I also I think it's interesting because there's also a pretty large corner of, like. The bronze skeptics that are still out there, like professional LeBron skeptics, critics like their shtick.

I don't know if that's about Jordan and some loyalty to Jordan or just LeBron choked in the finals, and I just it's unforgivable that colors everything these people cover for these people. It colors everything that happens afterwards. But LeBron, yes, that's what you talked about exists. But the other side of it exists, too. Or if you praise LeBron or you say he's the greatest or whatever, all these other people come out, you're like, whoa, this is just a lot.

There's a lot of stuff people getting makes people mad.

Well, the last dance stuff was really fun in that respect because it was almost like watching politics. Everybody's just on their side. They don't want to accept counterarguments, there's no discourse is people just yelling about what they think is right and that's it. And the reality is. I mean, I guess it depends on what your qualification is for greatest, you know, like, is it the peak of somebody that you watched? Or is it the career?

Because if it's career, it's him and career. And if it's peak, I still think it's Jordan and I think it's an argument.

So it depends on what you value. I'm going to yeah, I think it's going to be an argument, I think Peake is going to be an argument. Well, you know, I mean, Jordan's peak. Was a little bit higher, but. LeBron Peak is just like this endless peak to just go like you look for the horizon and you're still seeing the peak, like it's still there, like that, it's got to count for something. To sustain peak, but you got the advantages of the generation have to factor into it, and that's why I think like when you talk about the greatest players.

I was texting you about is there is it almost like we should think of this generationally with whatever was going on in that area? Like Russell only plays 13 seasons, but he was in college for four years and they're playing during a time when they had none of that stuff. And then Kareem misses his first four years because the UCLA. But still manages to play, you know, basically two decades, which is incredible. He put his group of five time MVP.

Yeah, well, that's the thing. I had a. I was trying to figure out something with the with the top three MVP's where. If you go through every year, you have four points for actually this, let's start a break, because this is really good. So I figured out something where if you look at the top three MVP's since nineteen fifty five. And you give four points for first place finish and two points for a second place finish and one point for a third place finish, OK, and you add up all the points.

Kareem is the highest to twenty eight, Jordan's at twenty eight, LeBron at twenty seven and Russell's at twenty six. And those are the top four. So they're all basically tied.

And it was like, I was like, that's cool because that should be the order in some order. Right. Kareem had six MVP six OK, a second and two thirds and Jordan had five first he had five MVP, three seconds, two thirds. LeBron was four, four and three and Russell was five, two and three. And then nobody else is really close to them. If you extend it to top four and you make it eight points for first, four for second.

Two for third. One for fourth. Kareem is 60 to. Jordan has fifty six points. LeBron also is fifty six points and Russell has fifty four, and those four stand out again. I think it matters when you're you know, as we look at this, that player performance matters, but it also matters like how many years were you one of the three best guys in the league? And those four guys were the three best guys in the league, way more than anybody else were.

And that's it. Like, it's it's the case that's the most dramatic against Kobe. Kobe only has nine points total in that top three example.

He can I say something that's going to irritate you? Yeah. Maybe I do this because I'm a contrarian, but I don't think actually I don't think really the guy that I always kind of kept for in these discussions is Wilt Chamberlain. So where is Will Scott? I think for MVP, it will.

I'm looking at twenty one points, four for MVP's, two second place, three third.

I'm just I won't be to any good Wilt Chamberlain biography. I'm fascinated by him. I've read the ball. I think his career has become underrated because of this perception that he was soft compared to Russell and didn't care about winning as much in all this, which.

No, that's why he he was always a loser. That's why he's a loser with a capital L.. I don't think that's fair. Everyone from his generation said it is a loser or is he just not a winner on the level that we want the greatest players of all time to be?

He was selfish, I know, but he was super selfish. So and I think when you read all the accounts from other players from that era, it's kind of like startling how candid they do whatever you wanted.

If you Wilt Chamberlain and the guy guarding you is like a six eight dude in flat shoes who couldn't jump, I think I would be selfish, too.

But then I would I try to lead the league in assists just because I could. I don't know, like what I you know, the Lakers era wilt is kind of complicated, too, with what happened in the sixty nine finals and all that. But I was like I did a whole chapter about this.

The biggest case against him is in his prime. He got traded twice and both times the teams were like, hey man, we'll just take 30 cents and da can you take wilt like that? LeBron never gets traded ever at any point in his prime. Neither does Jordan, neither does Russell. And I think you know it. Even Kareem and Kareem got traded. It was because he put a gun to his head. Right. So that's why I can't put him in there.

Just that alone get traded twice.

I just wanted to say I just want to make you a little mad and say his name. Yeah, well, I tried to figure out the playoff MVP. I did this in a calm while back and have kept track of it. If you just voted for the MVP after every playoffs. And Russell still like nine or 10, depending on how you feel about sixty eight, Jordan six, LeBron, if you include this one, which I think we end up, we will have them at five because I have them as the 2015 playoffs MVP, even though words one that's more than that's fair.

Right? I think I think you could have them where you have him. I think in one of the Durant Warriors championship years, he probably would have had a case then as well, particularly like eighteen to twenty eighteen was that he had like eight forty point games in that playoffs.

And just like obviously I was really watching, I was watching game one of the twenty eighteen finals today, but the lineup they had on the floor around LeBron at the beginning of the fourth quarter was like Jordan Clarkson, Kyle Korver, Jeff Green, LeBron and Larry Nance Junior. It's like how and the game was close. How is it possible. That was the best game I've seen him play in person. Yeah, I don't. I was on the fence with that.

Give that one to Cady's. I bet LeBron gets one of 17 or 18, if I really look deep into it, but maybe not the toughest one to figure out of this decade was 14. And who is these Spurs playoff MVP? And I gave it to Duncan just because of what he meant. And he was like 17 and nine. But I think one of the great things about that team was that there wasn't an MVP. They they were kind of both a little like this Miami team.

Right. You didn't know who was going to be game to game series four series. And they really played really well together.

There would be a five minute stretch who would be like, yeah, Boris theur was like the key to this team. The whole team or Belinelli would have a quarter like you would have like his versus the Tyler Corner.

So yeah. So playoff MVP's, it's basically Russell Jordan, LeBron Duncan and Kareem and Shaq are the only ones that would have three. So anyway with the with the generational goat thing and I throw out everything before the shot clock, I don't care but maybe so we stop all fighting about this. Maybe we should just say the Mount Rushmore is. Is Dad, LeBron, Russell and Kareem and Kareem and just be done with it? Don't you have to have one?

Well, I do.

The best player I've ever seen in my life was Jordan. It still hasn't changed no matter what LeBron does. But I you could tell me LeBron had a better career. But I've never seen anything like Jordan. And that's why I was glad the last dance existed, you know? I enjoyed the last dance was a great, great stroll down memory lane for me. I don't like the rules are totally different. Obviously, like Jordan would take way more threes now because the game has been geared to taking more threes and the legal defense rules were totally different, was much easier to isolate in Jordan zero than it is now.

It's just like it is. It is. We will look, if anything, the scrapping of the legal defense rules has been an underplayed moment in NBA history, like the game is completely different. I was reading some old articles about all the commentary about that at the time from coaches, from general managers. Some people were like wildly wrong about what would happen to the game, like some of the most famous basketball people in the world where like the stores, that this is going to destroy offense scores will be in the 70s and 80s because NBA teams will be so good at zoning.

And then other people are like this. Obviously, this is going to open up the game. It's I think the game is totally different because of that.

Do you think Luca has a chance? To be as good as those four guys. Because I do. That's a. And I know that I know that's a hefty thing to put on somebody, but that's a lot. You look at the checkpoints that he's hit so far. No, you're right. It's kind of unassailable that he is on track to be as good as those guys, barring 17 different terrible things that could happen.

Well, unlike like LeBron, he's going to play all of his career in the three point shooting, no hand checking era unless they change the rules again. Except unlike LeBron, he's coming in when it's like, oh, it's totally normal for you to shoot eight step back threes a game and like like so and you saw the numbers you put up in the playoffs and he's young. If he stays healthy, his statistics are probably going to be outrageous. The thing for him, the thing that really separated Kareem first and then Jordan LeBron was how much time they spent on their body and how competitive they became about that.

Kareem was the first green never got credit for that because Cream was a dick to everybody and nobody wanted to give him credit for anything. But he was doing yoga and all that stuff. People were making fun of them at the time, like, what the fuck are you doing? Why are you doing this? Why are you watching what you eat, all these things that nobody thought to do? And that was one of the reasons he played two decades.

I think if Luka commits to his body, I certainly think he's as talented as those guys. I know that's a crazy thing to say, but I really believe it. Like what he did at age 21 was never done in the history of the league. And yeah, you could say there's all these rule changes that Favorita that's like. All right. Well, I don't the fact that he's going to become a much better three point shooter on top of all the other things he could do already, he's has a chance.

Well, the obvious difference that we haven't talked about is all four of those guys were elite defensive players right in their prime. I mean, I'm looking at Kareem as a 11 time all defensive team player and the other three, everybody knows their reputations. And it feels like Loukas Ceiling as a defender. And it's weird to put a ceiling on him now is like above average. Like, I don't think he's ever going to know. Maybe I'm wrong.

I don't know. But it feels like above average is like a good a good feeling for him defensively.

That's a really good point. As a two way guy, how special, like even I think Bird in the mid 80s and Bird was never like, you know, an unbelievable offensive part, but he made a couple of defense teams and was really dangerous and, you know, jump in passing lanes and the way he rebounds and stuff like that, the fact that Loukia rebounds the way he does is that's a pretty cool thing. But yeah, it could he could he lock down somebody the way LeBron did?

No, which is why I think Luke has the best chance of anyone we have right now. But I feel like this those four guys are going to. Be levitating above everybody else for a while. Look, I mean, if he averages thirty five, 10 and 11 one year, we're going to have to re-evaluate, you know. All right. We'll take a break and then we have a little gimmick we're going to do.

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OK, so I mailed this to you like an hour and a half before the podcast. I didn't want to do it two days or a day before because I know what a psycho you are and you wouldn't have been able to handle it. So I sprung it on you last minute and I knew what your reaction was going to be was first was immediate panic and then about 10 minutes later being like, oh, this would be fun. I'm actually. Yes, exactly.

Exactly what happened. This is literally the exact sequence of events that happened.

So we're doing a little team. Twenty first century. Championship bracket. The one seed is going to be the twenty seventeen warriors, the two seed is the 01 Lakers, the three seed is the twenty thirteen Heat, the four seed is the Celtics. The five seed is the twenty twenty Lakers. Because out of respect to the top two. Succeed a team near and dear to your hearts, the 12 14 spurs, Zach, love them. Seventy two thousand nine Lakers.

And our AC, we're going have a playing game to try to boost ratings, ratings are going to boost the ratings up. It's a play in game for the eighth seed between the 04 Pistons. And the 2011 MABS. The winner gets to play the 2017 Warriors, I have the 04 Pistons as a minus three point favorite in the single elimination playing game. Who is your pick? You take it for Pistons or whatever. Mavs, they got a lot of dudes to throw Dirk.

I'm just going to point that I'm statistically they're pretty similar. I did I did spend 20 minutes going through the team metrics here just to prepare for this. But all of the Pistons statistics are skewed, negatively or skewed. They were better than their big picture statistics because of how late they got sheet.

I'm going to go to two thousand four pistons. I just think that was a monstrous defensive team that really found its groove in the playoffs offensively. I love that team. I love the twenty eleven Mavs. I just I don't I don't want any part of that twenty four Pistons team.

That is not a fun team to play against. Yeah. That would have been a bad matchup for the Mavs. Because they would have been like, if you if you sculpted a Dirk Defender, you would get Anthony Davis or Kaiji or she'd like when you blocked in, like that's the kind of guy you want motivated sheep, which really those three months were the only time other than the 12 blazers where we saw him.

One hundred percent motivated. And you just, you know, one of the most frustrating players of our lifetime. But when he was at his best, it felt like he was as good as everyone else on the court.

I believe she'd never made an all NBA team. They didn't think there's not even one. I think there's not even one like, oh, he was third team that year, but I'd have to double check that.

All right. So that means we have the 04 Pistons, the team that we both enjoy, a team that can't really be compared by normal numbers because that the NBA was prehistoric that year. The pace was so freakin slow. That was the year we had. What was that Pacers Pistons game? It was sixty six. Sixty four. Yeah, there was some of that sixty six days detention.

The conference. Black game. Yeah.

In the 60s. Stand up. Changing a lot of rules that summer. It's kind of amazing. It took them 70 plus years not to realize that an offensive rebound should be a fourteen second shot clock like a lot of that added thanks to that guy. That was that was a huge real change, all that that had so many good ramifications.

And you know what? It's funny you say that because I was watching one of these old games today, I don't remember which game, a Jordan game. And you really notice how big a deal that offensive rebound is late in the game. And when you get the full reset, like you're like, oh, my God, it's like they're really like walking it back to half court. Right. Huge difference.

Yeah. I mean, that was like the whole Mark Jackson strategy in the late nineties. Right. Any time and any time he could peel twenty seconds off the clock. He was doing it first round to seventeen words against the four Pistons unfortunate matchup for the 04 Pistons. This is this is not that they wanted a team that had trouble getting to one hundred points, playing the best offensive team we had this century and one of the best ones all time.

I still think that 270 warriors are a top three or four all time team for me and the Durant and Curry together in the playoffs, all the stuff they were doing and then Klay and Draymond and supporting parts. There was never a doubt there when in the title it was great to watch. I have them when in this series and five. What do you have.

They were also the number two defensive team that year.

They were the season plus plus twelve point nine points for possessions in the playoffs. That's the second best figure of all time. To another team that's on in our little bracket here, I, I mean, they went sixteen and one in the playoffs.

I'll give the Pistons the game because they're champions and they'll probably find a way to get a game. But it's going to be interesting if anybody can unseat the twenty seventeen warriors. And this little gimmick we're doing, because I find it, I find their cases the greatest team of modern NBA history to be almost airtight. I agree, I think that the two best. The three at this century, the three best teams. In terms of stretches of basketball, we saw.

Were the open Lakers, the 17 Warriors? And that Heat twenty seven game win streak, and I think those are the peaks, right? That's the weird the weird thing about the Spurs, they never had that year, that stretch where you're just like, oh, that was it. That one team, it was like that they could never calibrate the Robinson Shinobi Parker with Duncan thing where everybody was at kind of their peaks. If they got ninety nine Robinson on the five Spurs team, maybe it would happen.

But anyway, I'm going to save my reaction to that from when we get to the twenty fourteen spurs. All right. We'll go there to see now. The twin Lakers tumultuous year for them, a lot of feuding even in this fake bracket, and and they really came together and put aside their differences. And you're still getting Shaq. You're getting blossoming into a super duper star, Kobe. You're getting the team that completely eviscerated the Kings, either in round two, around three, I can't remember each game, either Shaq or Kobe had some crazy game culminating in Kobe, I think, at forty eight.

And the clincher doing this off top, my head. Versus the 2009 Lakers. Which is fun because Kobe gets to guard himself, which I think is probably a dream come true for that decades, Kobe anyway, but you have Gasol and Bynum leaning on Shaq from a roll player standpoint. You have the Irisa older Derek Fisher versus the Lakers had early Fisher Hauri, Rick Fox. I thought that was a really good team. I think I think they run him over.

And I think to one, Shaq wants to stick it to thousand Kobe in this series.

For some reason, I'm tempted to pick a sweep, OK? Twenty one Lakers, one fifteen and one of the playoffs. They are the team I hinted at before.

The best net rating in postseason history should have gone undefeated. They lose in overtime to Iverson or they sweep the playoffs, which nobody's ever done ever.

I just think. Shaq and Kobe were so dominant, yeah, that I just don't know that older Kobe and Pau plus Bynum plus Odom plus, you ever have any answers for that team? Well, we talk footnote titles, the 09 footnote, two big ones. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh yeah. It's coming. It's coming. CGY goes down to Saturday night's Celtics are better the Celtics. But then LeBron just getting. You know, we're just sitting there waiting for LeBron versus Kobe.

I still feel kind of cheated. That would have been amazing. And then Orlando was like, hold my beer. And all of a sudden they're in the finals match up for those Cavs teams.

Terrible matchup. Orlando is a nightmare matchup for them and a really good team. Two thousand nine Lakers, by the way. Sixty five and seventeen. That was a really, really good team. But I just think Shaq. Rolls them in this in this fake series, will you and I both love Gasol, and that was a really good Gasol. They had him the whole year. They really figured out how to use them. He was perfect for the triangle and, you know.

Yeah, but by the way, Shaq, Prime Shaq is just putting everybody in the basket. There's just nothing you can do, just putting everyone in the basket. I redid my pyramid and Gasol made the top hundred. That sounds totally plausible. Shaq probably made the top 10. He's still yeah, he's still lurking. All right, next round he 12, 13. Ironically, playing the 2014 Spurs. So the slightly inferior version of the Spurs the year before almost beat the 12 13 Heat and should have.

So now we have a slightly better version since we saw the series already. I got to take the 12 14 spurs in our first upset. This is a tough one because, like you said, it's the next season, the two thousand fourteen spurs rolled the Heat, but the Heat were tired. It was a year later they were getting old, were ready to break.

Well, LeBron was about to leave them. Debate, so the big differences you get with the 14 spurs, you get a healthy Tony Parker. Remember, he was hurt in the 13 finals.

You have Kawhi, who now has a couple of years under his belt.

And for the yeah, for the first time, we're starting to look at Kawhi as like, oh, man, this guy isn't just a roper. This is going to be the transition guy for Duncan. And then just randomly, Borstel was unbelievable, 12, 14.

I get I get healthier. Wade in 2013, though, you dim and you get you get the last kind of important Batea. There are defense, statistically, they're incredibly similar teams, almost the exact same regular season that rating spurs in the playoffs were much more dominant. Well, a little bit more dominant than the twenty thirteen heat, twenty fourteen Spurs, plus 10 points for their possession in the playoffs. That's third best all time, but weirdly, 16 and seven, which is underwhelming because Dallas somehow took them to seven in the first round heat, also six seven at twenty thirteen.

I'm tempted. I'm tempted to just say I pick the team with LeBron but I love that. Twenty four, fourteen Spurs team so much. And they just found Nirvana for like a month. They found Nirvana and I'm going to, I'm going to go toe to toe in seven. I'm going to, I'm going to go to twenty fourteen spurs. Ginóbili You don't believe Buzzer Beater to win game seven.

I think it's the right pick because it's basically the same series we had in 2013. Except you have Kawhi is twenty percent better and Parker is healthy and there's a little bit better. So when you consider they came within one rebound of beating them in 2013, you figure those three things. I think it was just that was a bad matchup for Miami and a lot of ways. Right? It was a team that was playing the ball movement, small ball version of what they were doing and a team that had, as it turned out, a generational defensive player to throw LeBron at at least make it work where it was going to be easy.

The level of playmaking up and down the roster was just outrageous. Just, you know, they'd had five really good pastures on the floor all at once. It just ran the heat ragged. So, yeah, let's reward those first spurs and seven upset our first upset. I got to say, I felt bad for the 2014 Spurs historically because everyone was expecting OKC or the Clippers. That was Durant's MVP year. We were thinking about LeBron versus Durant. The Spurs missed their chance.

They blew it the year before. They weren't going to be able to make it back and all of a sudden they're in the finals. Then it was like LeBron, LeBron, LeBron. Then by the last two games, it was, oh, my God, could LeBron leave and comes fast? And meanwhile, the Spurs beat the shit out of them in those finals. Remember, we. Oh, you do the last three games. They're up twenty in the second half of each game.

And but that OK, the series for them was the Western Conference finals against Oklahoma City. Ibaka missed the first two games. Yeah comes back. Oklahoma City ties a series of two and it feels like well this is it for the Spurs. If they don't get by this series this may be their last chance to get one more wing and the dunk in and they summoned enough to win the next two games including overtime at OKC in Game six. I believe Tony Parker missed the second half of that game with an injury.

Corey, that's the Corey Joseph. Right.

And that was and that was the first coming out of that series where we're kind of looking at the Westbrook Durant thing like. Hmm. Where is this going, you love the West water, anything, you still get a lot of love. You loved it at the time. Our four five match up. O8 Celltex against the twenty twenty Lakers, who some people are saying were seated too high in this, I, I saw this.

I saw this. I just wanted this matchup. I saw this. I thought, Bill is courting maximum Internet anger by setting this match up. It's a great one. So you have this Celltex team that I know your pick and I know your pick. And now I'm willing to talk it out because you have the CGY. You know, not only defending Anthony Davis, but talking all kinds of shit to him the whole time, you have a Perkin's Dwight Howard, probably a fistfight in game two and both of them are suspended for the rest of the series.

So we have to factor that in or somebody is elbowed and knocked unconscious. Who knows? You have it's a big Celltex team, right? I think one of the things, even as frustrating is the coaching was that year and some of the lineups with that 08 Celltex team was they go small, they could go big, they were malleable. So if the Lakers were doing their small lineup with Davis, the Celtics could respond with their small lineup with Pierce at the four and shooters and their supporting cast was better.

Pierce is somebody that. Had a lot of success against LeBron over the years, I'm not saying he was better than him, but was went toe to toe with him in 08 and, you know, as a young LeBron, but was better in that series. And in 2010, I thought I did some good stuff in that series, too. And at least he was always able to at least slow him down and make them work because he was so strong.

And then the real piece. That's a tough one, him running around screens with inferior dudes chasing him. I think the key battle is Rondeau against playoff Rondo 08. Rondo gets one playoff run. They might fight away. Rondo is a big wildcard. He did have some weirdly quiet games that need to come out and put up like a triple double the finals clincher. He was outrageously good that year.

Well, he's he was kind of unplayable half the time. It was feast or famine. There were games where you just say you got to get him out of there, play it, put it. Put in any house.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to let you pick this one because I'm biased, so you just outlined the case for the Celtics, right? Which is that like Pierce plus CGY equals LeBron plus a D Rays better than anyone else on the Lakers, blah, blah, blah. Would that the case would be could add. Could be the best player in this series. I think that's how they win, because I actually think that Celltex, they would have thrown dudes at LeBron, LeBron would have done what he always does in these series.

But what would add have done in this series, especially with CGY whispering terrible things to him, every game challenging his manhood, perkins' hard fouling everybody. Perkin's gets thrown out of at least two of these games.

I do think the Lakers bench has been pretty good in this playoff run, better than expected and would do well chasing around Ray Allen, they've chased around the heat shooters pretty well. OK, my thing with the eight Celtics get. I can't pick you if the Hawks take you to seven in the first round, but Julia and and then LeBron by himself, with apologies to the rest of the twenty two thousand eight, Cavs takes you to seven in the second round.

I just. How are you?

I can hear the Celtics in as well. All four of our wins against Atlanta were blowouts in all three of the losses.

How do you let the Hawks take you to set sixteen and ten in the playoffs? It's the worst playoff record of this whole group. Sixty six and sixteen. In the regular season, they almost lost more playoff games than they did regular season games.

Not really. Well, they yeah. That those first two rounds are alarming to me. I have to. And then I just like who has LeBron. So I'm actually going to pick the twenty twenty Lakers in a seven game bloodbath in the series.

I hate to say it, but I think it's the right pick because because the Cavs with LeBron a way inferior version of him, as great as he was as a twenty three year old and no supporting cast, it all took the Celtics to seven. And that's why, you know, I'm getting smart, LeBron. I'm getting Anthony Davis getting a better supporting cast. Like it actually makes sense that they would beat them.

And also look like we're all imagining these ridiculous counterfactuals like the twenty eight, the 2008 Celtics defense. The typical defense was like innovative and strange and unfamiliar, like was doing crazy stuff. Well, twenty, twenty LeBron and Ad have been playing against that basic defense for ten years now. So the surprise factor isn't there. Again, this is all a fun exercise I'm taking. I'm just taking LeBron and I use that hawk. Serious still bugs me to this day about the great team and you have to admit it.

Game seven, Cleveland. You were terrified of LeBron. Terrified I. That was the most frustrating title season of any title I've ever rooted for and enjoyed as a Boston fan. There are so many moments. I mean, you can bet I'm like a crazy person.

And some of the columns I wrote that year, I just couldn't believe the lineups we were playing. And I think they stumbled into the identity of the team halfway through that Detroit series. And from that point on, they're really good.

And that the last two series and six doc was Doc was just so enamored with big ball basketball. And meanwhile they had one of the better small ball lineups you would ever want with that house. And Ray Allen and Pierce and Posey and CG, they were kind of unbeatable. And I have no idea with the advanced metrics where for that lineup in the playoffs. But it had to have been ridiculous.

You can't let the Atlanta Hawks in to dominate seven games in advance in this fake tournament. You just can't happen.

Well, not not to mention LeBron by himself with the Lotti and Volley Serbia and whoever else was on that fucking Sasha Pavlovitch. All right. We're down to the next round. We'll go faster. The Seventeen Warriors in a one four match up. Against the 20, 20, unless you wait, wait, we got to figure this out, actually, so we had a 60 day advance. Does that mean we received or is.

No, no. Could it'd be like the NBA? No. OK, all right. So 17 words against the 20 Lakers. So we're basically getting the same matchup. Yeah, I know. I feel the same. The Warriors have an embarrassment of riches. They're actually all locked in for the entirety of the season that year because it's their first year together with KD. KD has been that mean there's no answer for LeBron, but Kati's like the only wing who who can really consistently go toe to toe with him and sometimes outdo him in playoff games as well.

He certainly did in that finals. He played better than them in seventeen. It was close, but he was better.

He pulls up in his face and hits the shot to win game three and kind of end the series. Basically, it's hard to pick against the word that it's boring, but that team is just absolutely ridiculous. That's after the other series is March. What do we go? Forgot it's the Lakers against the Cinderella story, 12 14 Spurs. Not that interesting to me. Let's fund the old one, because I just 021 Lakers were so that is the greatest flip the switch team in the history of professional sports when they decided to when Dave and specifically Shaq decided that it was time to play.

You were just you were just the ant on the road when the steamroller is coming for you. It was just over Chac was the best.

Forty first forty four minutes of a game player of the last 40 years since Kareem. And the problem for him was always the last four minutes when you started fouling, he would get nervous and crunch time, all that stuff. But then they had Kobe, who was like totally ready to be any closer in any close game. I thought that team was awesome. It's such a bummer that. You almost have to merge the two thousand regular season with the 21 playoffs is the best version of those two years, but they didn't time it correctly.

But when I was doing my book, trying to figure out the greatest teams 12 years ago, that was the team that really jumped out to me historically. This run, they basically have from some come to Jesus, Phil Jackson meeting through the last twenty five games or so all the way into the playoffs. They're just annihilating everybody in the league was pretty good that season. Yeah. You look at the all NBA teams, it's it's C at its peak, Celebuzz top five, all NBA that year.

They destroyed him. Duncan, I think got hurt that year. Was he he got hurt one or two, one of those years, but that was kind of, you know, they didn't have Parker yet. I don't think that you know it either, that was just kind of an older Spurs team cause he didn't have the help yet. But but the league in general, there's a lot of talent there. That was the Iverson.

Vince Carter is pretty loaded and they just they're the one Iverson game away from true basketball immortality. If they if they win that game, everybody instantly remembers them as maybe the greatest playoff team of all time.

I don't think anyone's ever going to do that. If if anybody I mean, look, there's we didn't think a 16 would be the one that is 16 to be the one. So maybe someday. But that's really, really hard. And if the twenty seventeen warriors couldn't do it because that was the you know, they got almost all the way there. Right. They were 15 and they could stay. It was right in front of them and they lose game four.

I believe if they do it I find it hard to believe anyone will do it. I think what's the reason I would say nobody could do it now is the three point factor and how random these games are now. There's there's just no rhyme or reason you can't even computer simulate the shit. How are you going to computer simulate like the one Random Warriors game where the other team hits twenty three threes and goes twenty three for forty from three.

Like that's what we can't factor in. I think it was a lot easier to do it with the twenty one Lakers. All right. So we have the seventeen where thanks to our, our final, our playoff teams by the way, we have some parting gifts for you.

We have the twenty seventeen warriors against the twenty one Lakers.

I feel like that's the right matchup for me to. Yeah I didn't really actually think that hard about who was going to advance, but I feel like we've landed in the right place.

Those are the two best teams of the post, Your Honor. So we landed in the right place. So it's amazing that a heat team isn't one of them and we don't really feel super regrettable about it. But that's what I'm saying about the heat. Like, it's a no brainer that these are the two teams you end up with.

Well, the problem is like LeBron is not on any of these teams. LeBron LeBron team is not is not in the finals. And it feels fine. If we were doing stretches, which would be another interesting bracket, and then you could have like the two thousand sixteen warriors, first twenty five games team in here, and you could have the the heat streak. You could have the first two months of the twenty nine Celltex. Maybe that'll be our next bracket.

What do you 16 the Warriors might have been the most fun, like the curry shot in Oklahoma City. It's like the most fun regular season. The moment for everybody who's not a Thunder fan. That was like everybody remembers where they were when that shot happened.

It's more fun if they win in 16 in the Cavs win in twenty seventeen. And all the stuff that happened for LeBron happened with the 17 team. Well, that's the thing is like. The Durant's signing, I mean, it changed so many things, but the twenty seventeen finals, that's the best Cleveland team of LeBron Cleveland career. Yeah. And they just go in there with no shot because this team was because of a salary cap. Spike was just created.

And there's just nothing you can do. They have for all NBA players at the same time, including arguably two of the top three players in the NBA. That Cavs team is really good warriors, Lakers, so we're going to play it out, the case for the Lakers is. Shacochis steamrolls the Warriors and puts up forty three and twenty every game. My question is. The Warriors are taking advantage of this modern basketball world where they get an extra 17 points a game from 3s.

So Chac have your TEUs, we're just going to come back down here to three and we're putting you in Pecoraro every time. I actually ask Steve Kerr about this.

I can't remember if I was on a podcast or off the record, so if it's not the record, sorry, Steve, but he was just like we put Shaq in pick and roll constantly. Like, whoever I mean, whoever he's guarding would put him in pick and roll. And we're trying to get either Durant or Curry. With Shaq 20 feet from the basket, and we're just going to keep doing that until you have to figure out something now, and I think that's easier for Golden State to do than the counter, which is what we're just going to post Shaq on Draymond Green 50 times because they'll front, they'll help and yeah that'll get some Lakers open threes but it's, it's harder to just give him the ball than it is to put him.

Even if he's guarding Iguodala you just put Iguodala on a pick and roll it. See what happens.

There's one other reason I think the Warriors when I think Kobe one Kobe. You know, it was a little off the reservation, I think he sees this series as like they're going to triple team Shaq. I've got to win this for us. And you would have had that alpha dog thing resurfacing where it's like, oh, these guys think they can shoot threes, watch this. And Kobe, because we saw that happen to him in a couple of playoff series where he would get thrown off for four, basically the dynamics of the series.

So I actually think the Warriors win this in five. But I think Shaq has one game where he has like fifty seven points.

I'm going to give the Lakers two game just cause. But I think five might be the right call, but I just. I'll give to L.A. because I'm going to I'm going to magically, like, bestow upon them twenty, twenty, seventeen levels of three point shooting volume. And so I do feel like the way they overload on Shaq, the Lakers will have a couple of games where they get really hot from three. So I'll give them a couple of games.

But I think the Warriors are the warriors.

Well, that's an interesting back to the future time machine piece. So if if the Lakers are the two thousand one roster. But we've now injected them with the knowledge of some of the stuff they should be doing in basketball in twenty twenty, and one of the things would be like, yeah, have horse shoot like eight threes. Yeah, he's open. Just put them up. Kobe should shoot eight threes. Fisher should shoot five. You should get to thirty threes and that's going to open things up for Shaq that might actually fit us.

I'm still taking the worst. That's the best.

I hope that we get to see a team in our lifetimes where you actually think about whether you would pick the twenty seventeen warriors or that team because that will be a special specialty.

And I think the guys on that team feel that way to. They share a special team like it didn't last, it lasted three seasons and the third one injuries derailed them completely in the end. And, you know, but that's all it was meant to last, I guess. But when they were locked in, I mean, there was just like. I've said this before, I remember a game in Denver, I think it was that year might have been the following year actually when the Nuggets, like, hung with them for a quarter and of course, half the crowd in Denver as Warriors fans.

I'm sure longtime Warriors fans. And and then the second quarter, they put all their best player. They put the death lineup in and in what seemed like a minute, they went on like a 19 oh run and the game was over. And it's like you're just watching. Like, I don't even know what you're supposed to do. Like, there's nothing you can do. Gary Harris is like running around trying to guard people like, I'm sorry, Gary Harris.

It's not going to work.

Well, that's the other thing with that team is you've figured out who's doing a pretty good point of his career. And he's like the fifth guy. You know, which that's why when you start talk about historic stuff in the 80s, teams the leagues smaller. So you have teams that have, like Denis Johnson's, their fifth best guy or, you know, right by Byron Scott is the Lakers fifth, fifth most important guy on this team. And it's like, wow, he would have been like the third most important guy in a normal team.

And I think the Iguodala thing that was, you know, there is a fun alternate universe where KD goes to Boston in 16 and the league is just a lot more unpredictable from that point on. Right. Because then you have this.

It doesn't matter where you goes, as long as it's not Goldust, he doesn't have to go anywhere because that's I mean, as long as it's not Golden State, because then you have this Durant LeBron East rivalry thing going the west kind of opens up.

And this really nice way we may be talking about James Harden differently. I don't know why this is a big this is why as much as he doesn't, as much as I'm sure he won't want to hear this. The Brooklyn stuff is big for Katy because I don't think I don't think fans are ever going to, quote unquote, count those two titles. As as as as I don't think they'll be weighted the same for his personal legacy as he wishes them to be.

I just don't think that will ever be the case.

I felt it. Probably the fourth part I did with him. A couple of weeks after they won the title and I could see it like this kind of like what does I have to do? I just outplayed LeBron in the finals, so I don't get any credit for that.

You can't take that away. A two time champion. All that happened. I just I think and remember this guy before the Achilles tear. You talk about the Mount Rushmore. We started off with those four guys, like he was on a pace to get into that conversation like that. But he is is a two way player. He if he wants that, we'll see how he looks when he comes back. But if he wants to continue along that trajectory, he's going to need another ring in a different circumstance.

I think that's a fair thing to say. What's your over under four years for Katie and Kyrie together? Actually, don't answer that, I won't get in trouble. No, I don't care. I mean, I'll say if I think you set the I mean, look, what is the NBA taught us in the last five years. Do not assume longevity for, like, hardly anything. Right? I mean, I think you said given that they just signed and they haven't played together yet, I think you said it at like three point five or four point five.

And you start the four point five, I you start thinking under under three point five is a good is a good line. I'm worried about CWD Post, Achilleas that the age is that he's thirty two and he's and he's been in the league since he was 19 and he has miles on him, you know, and we haven't seen anybody with that injury come back at a level that I've really liked. Yeah.

Also I haven't seen a seven footer who can shoot like him very often. It's basically him. And so that's the reason that Dirk age so well is because he could just like, yeah, I can't really move so much anymore, but I will rain hellfire on you from all over the floor.

Good point. All right. You can listen to the Low Post podcast. You can read Zach. He's got a preview coming up. A Game five and then I'm sure some other finals related content and we'll see. You're going to be in the we're doing a book of basketball together in a couple of months. But I'm going to come on year after the finals.

Yeah, I forgot about that. I was like I was like those those. But the basketball ones get my brain going in a different direction and I those. All right. Good seeing you. Thanks.

Always good to see you, buddy. All right, I'm tape in our picks right after that, BUX bears whatever the hell that was. It's a little past eight thirty here, Pacific Time watching Brady and foal's with the Super Bowl rematch from a few years ago. It was like when Sugar Ray Leonard fought Roberto Duran late, late, late their careers when it was like, oh, kind of looks like these guys, but they were not the same guys.

I feel bad for Brady. Brady gave me two unbelievable decades as a football fan, and now he's on this new team that commits 10 penalties, a game that gets no respect from the refs. It doesn't seem like the teammates even know each other. And then to cap things off after he got the crap kicked out of them, made it all the same, kind of nervous quick throws when he gets pressured late in the game. Should have probably been picked on the second to last drive.

And it was just getting kind of beaten up a little bit. And it definitely changed the way he was playing as the game went along. And then on that last drive forgets what down it is.

And look, I'm eight years older than Brady. I will call my son by my daughter's name and vice versa every once in a while. What happens when you get older and you hit your mid forties? I think we saw Brady tonight. So does he Miss Belichick? Does he missed the Patriots? Does he missed continuity? Does he missed the fans? Only he knows. But, you know, switching teams this year, especially when you have no time at all to spend with anybody, it's just got to be weird for him.

It's just a weird way to end your football career. I never really understood it. I never thought it was really worth it. Certainly wouldn't tell somebody who's a competitor like his what they should do and what decisions they should make with their career. But the upside versus the downside. We'll see we'll see what this team looks like in two months, I'll tell you one thing, though, regardless of the cohesion thing and you know Godwyn coming back, Evans playing at one hundred percent, all that stuff, it's still a Bruce Arians team and it's still really sloppy team that that makes them plays.

And it was the same case last year. I think Brady had some interception like this year. Tonight, I felt like he could have had a couple picks there. I thought the Bears defense looked really good. And if I was a Bucs fan long term, regardless of the cohesion health factor. A really good defense seems like it can give Tampa Bay problems because I don't feel like their offensive line is that good? I would say it's below average.

I don't think it's a disaster, but it's certainly not good. And they were just, you know, getting a push on Brady the whole time. They even had more sacks than they got credited for because Carlisle Mack did the slam Brady down to the turf thing, but. Yeah, it's weird, it's weird to watch them on another team. It's weird to watch him do old guy stuff and I can't say I enjoy it that much. I don't even bet on the game.

And I had no stake. You know what I am going to bet on? You know what I was thinking of doing? I was thinking of betting on week five million dollar picks. Yeah. Fanjul didn't put me in charge of their sports book for a day. And if they had, I feel like I would have come up with the same game parlors anyway, but these lines we're using are from Fandor and they've given me the gambling gift of so many different combinations you can do with with paralyzing the player.

Props point totals mainlines. The best part, Fandor will refund the first same game parlay you lose on any NFL game each week, up to ten dollars. That means you can get bet a different part of the risk free every NFL week, all season long. That is like free money. So, for instance, if you want to do whatever your same game parlay is, maybe it's Dak Prescott throwing for at least three touchdowns with the Dallas money line, something like that.

That would be a good one, actually. Knock yourself out. You'll get ten bucks back. If you don't win your bet, do it all season long. I mentioned to you also that Fandor is the only sports book where you can play the same game. Perlitz, listen up. Set up with promo code B.S. so they know I sent you and if you already have an account, you get to go. Same game parlays risk free all season long on the fantasy sports book app.

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OK, million dollar iPIX. Here's what we're doing. First of all, the Colts, they hurt my feelings that we won. They lost the game to the Jaguars, where they somehow did punt the whole game, I lick my wounds, I came back with them a couple of times, including last week. I still feel like they're severely undervalued. I think they have I don't know if they have the best defense in the league, but they have the defense that's playing like the best defense in the league, 3rd and DVOA over first.

Defensively offense has been a little spotty. They have pretty slow pace. Their receivers haven't been healthy. Rivers has been OK. Not great. They can run the ball. The rookie Taylor is really good. And just in general, they're just a good, good, good team that can block, protect rivers and and make a lot of things happen with the defense. They're playing Cleveland. They're one and a half point favorites over the Browns, Cleveland Twelfth DVOA.

Which is weird because I've seen a lot of Cleveland, they do not strike me as a top 12 team there, plus six and turnovers, which I think explains some of their success being three and one, which is by far the first four turnover differential.

They don't have Nick Chubb.

And as we learned with the Carolina thing, don't overreact when running backs get hurt, get hurt on teams. I'm going to overreact a little bit because as much as I love Kareem Hunt, he's hurt, too. He hurt his grind last weekend. I believe in that game. They're claiming he's fine or that that he might play and that, you know, it's playable. But I don't trust groynes, especially like during this part of the season when it just seems like a lot of people are pulling this pawn, that they had a couple of backups that were fine.

But here's why I bring that up. If they're running game is it lights out. That just means more Baker Mayfield doing stuff. And I just don't trust them. I don't think he's been very good.

We haven't seen him play a really good defense this year. And I can't believe the Colts aren't giving three. I feel like I'm getting an extra point and a half here. Cleveland's lot, Cleveland's defense, they've allowed one hundred and seven first downs, which is third to last in the league. And for the Colts who haven't really had an awesome offensive game yet, this is the kind of defense you want to play. I just think they're better. And I'm getting a free point in half.

So I'm taking the Colts. Browns. I don't see you going to form one. So that's one game we're taking. Carolina is favored by one and a half over Atlanta, Carolina, Burn Me two weeks ago, I smartly stayed away last week because after I watched what they did Arizona, it was kind of like what's going on with this team? They're 19th and DVOA, Atlanta's twenty seventh Atlanta. People can't believe they have fired the coach yet.

They've allowed one hundred one first downs. They're banged up on defense.

I've given up on them as the nine and seven team that scores a lot of points and isn't quite a playoff team, but it's fun and frisky now that this is more a on Carolina. I really like that rule. I've been really impressed by the Panthers. I, I read all morning about a bunch of this stuff because week five is when you can really start applying. What you learned from the first four weeks in the mat rule thing is a real thing.

He came in every year we see one new coach come in and bring like a new culture to a team. It's happened here. I like all his quotes, like two weeks after they lost McAffrey when he was just like, hey, Mike Davis is really good. Is the downhill back this guy don't count. Don't count us out because just because we have Mike Davis news. Right. I like the way they're using Bridgewater. They haven't made a bunch of big plays yet compared to kind of what you would expect from a team that's been moving the ball the way they've been able to move the ball.

But I think this is a classic just well coached grinder's plays all 60 Minutes doesn't beat themselves kind of team against the Falcons team that cannot play 60 Minutes and always beats itself. So I like that they're getting a point and a half. I, I honestly think they should be favored in this game. It's not like it matters that it's in Atlanta. So that's our that's our second one. We're looking at Carolina plus one and a half the third one.

I can't believe I'm doing this because I wrote them off three weeks ago. The Vikings are plus seven and Seattle. And if you look back at Minnesota's first four games. It actually makes sense why it started out so badly, who they lose two week, one week to, they got killed by Greenbay. Now and none of us realize that it was the Rogers revival, Susan. And then they lose to anybody who, you know, might be one of the three or four best teams in the league, at least playing like that right now, week three, they lose to Tennessee by a point in a game that easily could have won their lead in the fourth quarter.

And then last week, they beat Houston eight, Minnesota, not as bad as maybe we were feeling they were after week two and then throw in the the Dalvin Cook thing, who looked like the best running back in the league. Honestly, when you're when you're watching the games on all the TVs, every time he gets the ball, it's like Jesus. So. You know, they they lucked out with Jefferson, the rookie receiver, being able to actually contribute and do some stuff to play in Seattle this week, Seattle twenty fifth in defense of DVOA, they've allowed one hundred nine first downs in four games they don't have.

Jamal Adams didn't have a pass rush. Second, there is not that good either. And if there's ever a game from Minnesota to put up like 40 points, this is the game now. I hate betting against Russell Wilson. But I feel like this line should be like Seattle by four or four and a half max, Seattle beat Atlanta, congratulations. They beat the Patriots in a game that if Cam Newton gets in on that last play, it's a loss.

They beat Dallas. Congratulations, and they beat Miami. So, you know, we're treating Seattle like it's this container and it's really out of respect for us, but the defense isn't there yet and they're running backs, aren't there? Carson's hurt. We don't know if he's playing this week or not. His backups, Carlos Hyde, he's hurt. And in general, like their running game last week. Wilson, are you look at they're running all season.

Wilson's like the best running back on the team, at least the healthiest. So. You throw in that this is, you know, Vikings don't want to go one in four, obviously you're just building it's almost a must win game for them.

And and I like the fact that Cousins doesn't have to worry about a pass rush or secondary and can actually, you know, Kirk Cousins on the right game can look pretty good. I think the Vikings can win this game. I love getting plus seven with them, so we're doing them now. So those are the three I like the most Colts minus one and a half Carolina, plus one and a half Vikings plus seven. I'm going to go later on these next three games.

First one is charges plus eight and a half against New Orleans. This is a Monday night game that might move to Indianapolis Chargers beat Cincy. Then they lose close games to Kansas City, Carolina, Tampa. Their next five games are Jets, Miami, Jacksonville, Vegas, Denver. If they can somehow either pull off an upset or keep it close and get some momentum to to those next five games, they're kind of a dark horse to make to make the playoffs because Herbert's good.

He's just flat out good. It sucks that Tyrod Taylor lost his job because he got stabbed by the doctor, basically. But Herbert's good. And you have to play him. You just have to is we talked about him on Sunday spot is he's legit and he's exciting. And and between between that and the fact that I think their defense has been pretty frisky, even if it's a little banged up, I don't know. I see them hanging around in this game since the biggest thing for me, the Saints.

Twenty six defensive DVOA. Opponents are forty nine percent on, third down against them and seven for eight on, fourth down, their defense just hasn't played that well. So with that eight and a half, even if Drew Brees does the whole thing or he completes one hundred short passes and you're like, how the fuck is this working? It could still be a situation where the Chargers are down 14 with three minutes left and Herbert gets some. Get some, you know, the garbage time today.

I just think it's too many points. I think the line should be seven. I'm getting free. Point a half. Mark that one down. Second Jags plus five against Houston. This is a weird one. This is Houston basically getting a bump because they fired their coach, which would make sense if they didn't fire their coach and replaced them with Romeo Crennel. I can't believe we have another chance to bet against Romeo Crennel. Twenty eight and fifty five for his career.

Last time we saw him, he was the head coach of the two and fourteen twenty twelve chiefs. I remember I got a lot of good jokes that year about that team on Grantland.

More importantly, he's seventy three. I wasn't a huge fan of Romeo as a head coach when he was in his mid 50s, much less the 60s, now he's seventy three, he's older than my dad. So, you know, Bill, Bill O'Brien is bad of a GM as he was and as many dumb things as he did. The guy made four playoffs, like I really refused to believe that he was a disaster as a head coach if with the playoff record, and I think it was a great head coach, but I don't think he was a bad head coach.

Romeo Crennel has a proven track record of not being a good head coach. So probably going, I don't love the Jags. But if you look at Houston, they played four games. They have seventy two first downs total. Seventy two likes to put that in perspective. The Jaguars have ninety four first downs. Forty five percent on third down. I don't know why Houston's favored by five. I got to be honest, I don't think Houston's any better or worse.

The Jacksonville, Cincinnati, all the teams in that kind of bracket. And it just seems like we're bumping them for no real reason. So I feel like we're getting two free points in that game. Then the third one wanted to sprinkle a little bit lightly on was Dolphins plus nine at San Francisco. I guess Garoppolo is probably playing a Mullin's proved last week he's unplayable, but. San Francisco, they beat that, they beat both New York teams.

And they lost Arizona and they lost the filly, I'm not sure they've earned the right to be favored by nine points over anyone that's not the Jets or the Giants. Miamis also not. Not bad offensively like that, like there. Forty seven percent on third downs, they can at least move the ball, they can get garbage type stuff with killed them as their defense. They've allowed 16 big plays in four games. And big place count as 15 plus yard runs are twenty five plus yard passes, they've had 16 of those.

All right, well, who's making big plays on San Francisco? If Mostert stop playing, it's really just Kittel, so. I don't know, could the Dolphins keep a close? I think they could. Are the Niners that good? I'm not sure. Here's the thing with the Niners, and this is what really intrigues me about this game and liking betting against them. Their next seven games, Rams, Patriots, Seattle, Green Bay, New Orleans, by week, Rams, Buffalo.

And we've seen this with the schedule over and over again. The team that has a gauntlet coming up and the one seemingly easy game right before the galant and they go, that's the game they let up on. That was the chiefs against the Chargers. And we, too, because they knew they had a huge game the next week against Baltimore.

I could see them at least being like, well, we'll get this one and then we have that gotten that coming. Maybe not. Maybe you won't get this one. I'm intrigued by the Dolphins plus nine. More importantly. Oh, there's one more that I'm not going to bet, but I just wanted to mention it's Cincinnati, Baltimore, since he's getting 12 and a half points against Baltimore, Joe Joe DiMaggio. Barrow has never not covered against the spread this year.

I wanted to do it, especially because I think you could get the garbage team, here's why I'm staying away. Since week seven last year, Baltimore is 12 and one 10 of those 12 wins were by 14 plus points. So basically, they're the king of beating the hell out of bad to mediocre teams. Some staying away, but I do want to mention to my man, Joe Barrow, I think you have the garbage time team in TD and you.

All right, long shot parlay the week before we get to what I'm doing gambling wise. So this is a rarity. I hit the long shot parlay last week. I've hit two of four last week. We hit on the Eagles and Browns there plus nine forty four point thirty. Can that one one almost three. And I haven't had a week other than week one where I had almost too many candidates for the long shot parlay the week we had the Jags plus two hundred against Houston, we have the Vikings plus to sixty in Seattle with the Dolphins, plus three forty against San Francisco Chargers.

Plus two ninety against. New Orleans and then the Giants are plus three, 10. At Dallas, who has no left tackle or right tackle, no linebackers and hasn't proven they can beat anybody by three points. I'm going to cross the Giants off only because I watched them last week and their offense, the nine point performance when they just were turning chicken salad into shit over and over again. Is awful. He's been awful forever, you know. They're just frustrating, so I'm I just don't want to be frustrated by them because I do think they have the potential of winning the game in the fourth quarter and then somehow Dallas wins at the end or whatever, and you lose your money.

I bet. But I do think that game is going to be close. And I do think people are going to be dumb enough to put Dallas in. It's like they're a good team. So this long shot parlay thing.

I am going to put twenty thousand. On the following six beds ready? Vikings, Chargers, they both have to win plus 13, forty four Vikings, Jags, plus nine. Ninety five. My favorite one, Vikings, Dolphins, plus fourteen eighty four. JAG's Charger's plus 10 70, JAG's Dolphins plus 12, 20 Dolphins Charger's plus 16, 60, I am putting 20 K. On all of those. And if you hit one, you win all the money back and then some.

And if he had to. It will be wonderful. So you need I just need two of JAG's Vikings, Dolphins and Chargers to win in some sort of combination. And if three of those four went even better. All right, so here's what we're doing. And four million dollar pics, by the way, for the season. I made two hundred twenty three thousand last week. I'm down five hundred thirty four thousand for the season. That is with some bad luck.

I honestly feel like I'm doing pretty well with these picks, but I definitely have not had great luck anyway. Putting three hundred K. Colts minus one and half over Cleveland. Another three hundred K Carolina, plus one and a half against Atlanta. Another three Hendrick Vikings plus seven. Over Seattle. And then sprinkling a cage on charges plus eight and a half in New Orleans, JAG's plus five in Houston, Dolphins' plus nine in San Francisco, and then the long shot parlay of the week.

We're getting ambitious 20 K each on Vioxx charges plus 13 40 for Vioxx. JAG's plus nine. Ninety five. Vioxx, Dolphins' plus fourteen eighty four. JAG's Charger's plus 10 70, JAG's Dolphins plus 12, 20 Dolphins Charger's, plus 16, 16 Sargents, you couldn't make the cut. Those are the million dollar pics for week five. So I will see you on Sunday night. Me and s football. Who knows, maybe NBA finals, game six, I doubt it.

Seems like it's going to end. Tomorrow night. Lakers in five winning their 12th NBA title, the Los Angeles Lakers, they have won 11 NBA titles. This will be their 12th. Congratulations to them in advance. Don't forget to check out the rewash troubles. On Monday, we have a really good podcast. So get ready for that one. And then then the best part coming back. Listen to a podcast on Spotify and I will see you on Sunday night.