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State Farm is there. All right, the trade deadline podcast, part four, we've done three parts already. It is now twelve fifty four Pacific Time, three fifty for East Coast Time Ran. Rosillo is still here. We might go all day. We might do twenty four hours. Jack McMullen is joining us. The Hall of Famer Kyle Lowry was not traded. Jack, what happened? What happened? Well, it's funny, I was talking to someone in the Raptors organization a few days ago and there was sort of this sense, if you look back on that great championship season the next year.

Kawhi Leonard walks for nothing. Danny Green goes for nothing, right then Gasol and Serge Ibaka leave for nothing. And I think it just maybe it's just like, OK, we're all right with Kyle staying here, he's OK. Or more importantly, like if was like, get me out of here, man, this is a sinking ship. I think the results would have been different perhaps. And I think he was like, I'm OK with being here.

You know, his bird rights don't kick in till you can't extend him till the summer. So if you trade for him, you're interested in his bird rights. Much harder now to sign. Kyle Lowry is a free agent because you no longer has his bird rights. So for people that most people on, I don't need to explain this on your podcast. Right. Everyone knows what that means. Yes. Know it's helpful, though. Yeah. OK, so what it means is that if you had if you trade him at the deadline and you wanted to extend him, you had his bird rights, you could go over the cap.

You don't have to worry about it. Now, if you sign him, you have to be able to fit him. And it's it's it's more difficult for teams. So I think in the end, they probably just were like, how much of this can we ask our fans to understand? He's so good with the younger guys. And, you know, let's face it, the outcome. And Nick Nurse, they got a little thing going on right now.

There's a little back and forth. Kyle Lowry, I think is a great buffer for that. You know, maybe he rides you through that rough time because there's a part of the future. Rasselas favorite NBA feud right now is S.A.M. versus Nick versus he's on all the blogs, all the other Fuchsbau, just wondering.

Who do you like Riot, which got a shock and was totally out of line. Anybody that anybody that knows what happened. And I'm not going to say what happened because I'm just not a reporter. But he was totally out of line with what he did. And the player always wins even when it's somebody is a specialist, Nick nurse. I mean, every single time. I mean, we had Vukovich on and I was asking about defenses and he just brings up Toronto, you know?

I mean, it just happens all the time. Like what they do remember with JJ Redick and like, hey, what about like who stands out? He goes, oh man. He goes the way they chase and contest and keep chasing. He goes, dude, nick nurse. So everybody raves about this guy. So I don't know if it was just a slip up, a shocking number for something that's that's bigger, but it was a bad slip up and maybe it's not that big of a deal, you know, maybe down the road it's not that big of a deal.

But Lowry loved being in Toronto. I think, Jackie, you're right about it. I mean, I don't know that it's I mean I mean, it feels like a complete rebuild. But I think the bigger issue is, you know, I was reading stuff in Toronto this morning. Right. And I think Toronto gets really sensitive about anything that's I mean, honestly get sensitive about shit that it doesn't even make any sense to me, you know, like when you'll be like, yeah, you know, if those guys hadn't got hurt and it's like, what are you talking about?

Like, well, Kevin Durant, Klay Thompson get hurt. It's not a crazy thought to think that that helped you win a title. Or whenever you talk about anybody being potentially traded, it's like, no, that's not really happening. So the Lowry one was funny because I was reading a piece this morning in Toronto that said that only in the last two days is Toronto decided that maybe they would trade Lowry. But that's not that's just not how the job works, like those guys are having these conversations all season long.

So I really think it comes down to the thirty million. And once George Hill ended up on the Sixers and Darrell didn't want to move a bunch of pieces in it for rental with Lowry, that he just became a harder guy to trade. But it doesn't change necessarily the philosophy of what the Raptors are trying to do.

Right. But don't you think that Daryl Morey grabbed George Howell because he thought that Kyle Lowry thing was going nowhere? I think that happened first. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we talked about this on part seventeen in this podcast. Yeah. Hey, it just makes way more sense to get George Howell for nothing than it does to trade Danny Green and Maxi and a first round pick and whatever else you had to throw in for Lowry, where I think Hill is additive and I like the team that they have, I think they have a chance to win the East.

You know, it is healthy. I just love Lowry. I did, too, you know, at that finals that you're referring to Ryan with the Warriors, that you just and the year before, like I remember being there, I was doing it was when I was doing a mental health series. I was in Toronto. So I was interviewing DeMar Jarocin, who was being pretty open at that time. So I was talking to Kalari. And I'm like, you must have had everybody has mental health challenges along the way, right?

So you're no different.

He's like, yes, I stupid. You know, he went nuts on me, like, how dare you suggest?

And I wasn't suggesting anything, you know, but he is he's different. I just think there's a group of guys that are different. And he's he's not only different because of what he does in the locker room and what he brings and this never say die, which sounds so trite, but it's it's real with him. And the grittiness is real. And by the way, the talent is real. Now, I, I looked him up because I've always thought of him as a guy that just drives you crazy on defense.

You just hoping someone else will guard you. I looked at his numbers this season. They're not good, but their team's not good. They have no big men. You know, I was a huge blow to lose both of their big. So I think defensive numbers are always tricky to put your hat on him because so many other variables matter. So I'm going to disagree with you. I, I think you put Kyle Lowry on the Sixers and and and yes, you might sacrifice a great young player, but what the heck?

When's the last time the Sixers won a championship bill? You know the answer. So you're saying if it was Maxie Danny Green, so now I'm also missing a wing now? Well, you sure that's what it had to be? That's what I don't know. That had to be well, just from a salary standpoint, I think I think Danny Green had to be in it because we were talking earlier. The problem with Larry is that 30 million might get within twenty six of it or whatever it is.

And it's just these containers had so much trouble doing it. I mean, and I know he's thirty five or six or whatever it is.

I just, I just know what that guy does in a locker room, what he does on a team, what he does for a coach. You know, Nick Nursing, Kyle Lowry were never going at it like that. If they were, it was all positive energy. Right. So, yeah, I'm just a huge Kalari fan. We are.

And I think he I think he he makes you he doesn't just help you win a lot. He's the you could be the difference in winning a championship. I believe that we're sello the honeymoon period for Daryl Morey. If they lose to Brooklyn, followed by a summer of why do we get James Harden, why didn't we get Kyle Lowry that's now in play?

Yeah, we both know. I think Jackie knows maybe better than both of us. The hardest part is never going to be on. Daryl, I don't think that I think it was John Darrel's cantell irrational fans that though, though it's still we get hurt.

If I get everything you're saying about Lowry there, I get it. But I guess I'm not convinced. And, you know, here's the thing. I don't know. The answer is, Lowry, the difference to get you past the nets, because as great as the Nets thing is, I got to know. All right. So everybody's healthy. OK, fine. For me to suggest what am I who watch Kyrie am I getting is not an unfair question is we're now on the second time that he's decided that I'm going to step away from the team.

OK, and my country is healthy. Right in my theory of regular season basketball kind of hitting some real weird roadblocks in the playoffs now because we have these systems in this shooting and all the stuff that we've seen hasn't worked all the time unless you're also playing consistent defense. So I think there's I'm open to the idea that either Philadelphia can still beat the Nets without Lowry or that they you know, maybe you don't have a chance and Lowry doesn't make any the difference.

So I don't know. I wish I had a definitive answer for you on that one. I just don't know. I wonder, do you think, Jack, if Embiid hadn't gotten hurt it was one hundred percent kicking ass. There's a little more urgency to do a trade like that. Fair question. I think just knowing Daryl, knowing his personality, there's always urgency to make the best and the biggest deal. That's just what Daryl Morey is. And interestingly, it's a little bit who Doc Rivers is.

And Maxey, it's interesting, Diable. And you haven't found their footing with Doc Rivers. We can I think it's fair to say there's somewhat of a pattern there. Yes, it takes a while for young players to impress Doc Rivers and Kyle Lowry. You know that Kyle Lowry had Dockett ELO. You know he did. Yeah, that's fair. Well, I think by FileA not doing anything other than the George Hill thing, they dip their foot in the water.

But, you know, they're also saying, like, if imbeds not one hundred percent or Brooklyn is just going to continue to kick everybody's ass, maybe we were a year away anyway. We'll see, by the way, their defensive numbers this month even without Embiid playing for the full month. Very good. They're like seven points better than every other to the secondary. So you know maybe they looked at it going maybe we like our garbage. I still think it's the 30 million.

I think it's such a challenging number to it. It's not even about Lowry the player, what he may or may not bring. It's just how much can we really change for contenders to go? We have to move out within that much money. Do we really want to shake things up that much?

So Toronto, I was just going to say, I do like George Hill with them. I don't want to I it's not my intent to destroy George Hill. He's you know, he's a consolation prize. So in my mind, fair, good consolation prize. But, you know, it's not the convertible. It's the you know, it's the minivan. Maybe. I don't know. So Toronto is eighteen and twenty six there now the eleven seed, but they're only three games behind the eight seed the Celtics.

There are only four games behind the five seed the Miami Heat. They've kind of had the year from how they've been playing in Tampa. There's three guys have been just bad. And I think if you're going to make the case, they're not going to turn it around. The case would be Tampa Crosthwaite. They don't have the big guys. They just don't have the defensive infrastructure anymore, maybe. Right. The season off. On the other hand, it is Toronto to have one of the best five coaches.

They have the Larry VanVleet thing They shook it up a little bit with this Trent Powell trade which I think ultimately might be a good thing for them and if they get them going and they win some games and I guess what I'm trying to figure out is. Ten teams can go six guaranteed playoff season, then seven, eight, nine, 10. We have the plan. So if you had to pick which one's not even going to make the plan out of all those, I'll just list down from four.

Charlotte, Miami, the next Hawks, Celtics, Pacers, Bulls, Raptors. One of those teams will not even make the play in game that ball. Charlotte doesn't have ball. Charlotte's twenty two and twenty one though. Yeah but they don't have ball and that's going to catch up to them. He's been, he was spectacular. I loved him. It was so much fun to watch. So much fun team. They're still fun team. They still have good players.

But that's a that's a blow that you don't recover from in the short term. I don't believe. Can I make a call and I just I'm going to Xigris.

Yeah, I'm going to I think we both have a little Bozak go a has been incredible.

He's been incredible. And Perrigo, for the most part, if you look at it, he he sits lamella when these games are in the balance and they want to close game again this week. And then they look everybody beats the rockets. So I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not telling you they're better without lamella. I will rephrase that. I said it earlier with Bill, but there's a weird thing going on where he wasn't in the end of some of these close games that they've been really good in.

So my point on that was I liked how I liked how they always had good guards out and not having Romello any more compromises that. But I do think they Marquel play more, Davonte more, play more in my guy Mark. And I do think they can try to patch it together. So I would say out of all these teams because Indiana got LaVert back and I just feel like they have to be taken a little bit more seriously.

I think that scuffling though, there's scuffle in Indiana right there.

They've been fine, they've been a mess. Yeah.

They just you know, there's something not right. They're here. I'll offer it up. It's nice they got LaVert back but. Leverett's doing his own thing, and so you take this team and they were struggling before they got liver. I mean, at one point I felt like the Pacers are the most overlooked team in the east. And then they go through this brutal stretch and now brolgas trying to figure out where he's going. Sabonis is looking at it I mean to pencil in Caris Levert for 15 18 shots a game and disrupt a team that probably kind of knew who they were.

It's great to add that talent, but you can see there's some offensive growing pains figuring out how this is going to work now.

And TJ Warren coming back to I would say my the Knicks are my number one candidate to fall out and I would have the Pacers second and I would have Turano third. I actually think I just feel like Toronto. You can't underestimate even what we saw last year and that Celtics series when they're outmanned and they just fought and fought and fought far. They did. I don't see that team rolling over. If there are a couple of games out with four weeks left, I think they're just fighting.

Just remember, not all of that team is still here. That's all you're talking about. What about your Boston Celtics? So you decided that Evan Fournier solved everything and they're going to be the fourth seed.

Yeah, we're good. I think fornia. You missed that. In part two, we were comparing him to Larry Bird and Bob Cousy and some of the greats.

So there you go.

Now, I think better handle a little bit there a little bit better. They're going to miss Taisto a little bit. They are. So that that, you know, that came in late. And I was hoping if they were going to do this deal, you know, Gordon, I get it like forty eight. Good free throw shooter having a career year shooting in the high 30s, three point shooting. I think another guy that if you put him in a new system, his defensive numbers have dropped every year.

He had two years ago. He's a much better defensive player. I think you can you can be a guy that can get into guys on the wing in in a good system, which I I'd like to think Brad Stevens has. But the thing that's disappointed me most about Boston all year has been their defense. So I'm confused by that. But clearly, the latest thing was very simple. It was we don't want to be in the tax. And I man.

I think they're going to rue that one. I mean, I'm sure they were trying to move I'd like to think they were trying to move Tristan Thompson instead. Right. We've got to assume that, don't we? Yes. Yeah.

I just don't know who would want them if they watch them this year. 10 million extra. Hundred percent. Right. So, you know, because I kind of I could get I could get into Taison Robert Williams as your tandem with, you know. But I think they're going to miss this more than. Well, I know they I'm sure they didn't want to do it. It's money. It's the tax. It's the tax structure. That's what it is.

You know, like that move. They don't like it. It's funny. It goes back to last summer when they have the 30th pick and they don't really want to make it and they want to create cap space because I think they think they're going to get Tristan Thompson. And by the way, I was on board with Trista Thompson. I thought he'd be really good for them.

He's not been good, but they trade cancer and they trade the 30th pick for two second round picks, which gives them the ability to sign Thompson. But now they go get Fornier with those two second round picks. Basically now they also have to sacrifice twice. Yeah. So I guess the case could be you could have had Kaner entice and fornia potentially. So I don't know. I don't know if that played out the right way. I do think it's a big bet on Robert Williams, which I think I'm right.

It's time. So and that's the thing when you have ties. We were talking about this in the last part. Stevens is going to play twice like he's going to play Jeff Teague. He's if he has these guys, he's ultimately is a competitive guy. He can't help himself. And now you're moving those two options, which almost seems to be by design would be my guess. Yeah, that's probably not the worst way to go. I guess the Fournier thing really helps them, though, just because of how bad their backup swings were.

And now they have a couple of backup swings. So it has to make them better as to make them better. But does it get to the root of the issue? What's the root of the issue? The root of the issue for me is just again, watching that game and I watched the game last night and they come back from twenty five down is there's just a disconnect with that team. And it's funny, I kept thinking, you know, they need they need.

Kyle Lowry, I hate to harp on Kyle Lowry, but that's what the kind of guy they need, someone in your face in these young guys faces that they respect that saying, hey, it's not this simple. It's not supposed to be simple. Find a way to share the ball, find a way to play together, stop yelling at the refs, get your rear end back on defense. Come on. In other words, so Kemba Walker, who doesn't love Kemba Walker, he's the sweetest, kindest, nicest, professional, maybe in all of sports, respectful to us, respectful to his teammates.

But how about a nasty Kemba Walker? Wouldn't that be great like a Kemba Walker that grew little devil horns. That's what the Celtics need. That's smart. Isn't that supposed to be smart? I thought that was part of the package with them. Yeah, but smart is a separate. He's not. I'm talking about a really high level player with a high level and got it again.

I don't want to disparage Marcus Smart because, you know, we've talked about him a thousand times, but I'm talking about someone super, you know, that's been an all star that could that could fill fill it up twenty, twenty five points a game, but has an edge. And I think they the root of it with the Celtics is what is their identity, where does their edge come from. Because you can't it can't just be Marcus smart. That doesn't work.

Yeah, we talked Sunday night, we were talking I was saying I just thought they were soft and I don't like the word soft necessarily with players, but I think when you could talk about a team's identity, it's like, are you a finesse team? When you get punched in the mouth, the punch back? Are you are you the ones committing the borderline fouls or are you the ones complaining to the refs that you're being fouled when they're collisions?

Are you the ones going into the basket support? There's the I think that's been part of their identity is they just get knocked around and it's visible every game. OK, but how about this? How about are you the guy when you miss five shots in a row and you're one of the most talented offensive players in the league, you're kind of like, just throw your hands up and stop guarding your guy, because that's Jayson Tatum did for strengths of that game last night.

And I'm watching. And I know he could be a lock down defender. I mean, I interviewed Popovich about he's like that kid could be Paul George. He could be a two way player of that caliber, but hopefully not that well.

OK, fair enough. But if you get frustrated because your shots aren't falling and you kind of, you know, throw up, you know, the shoulders slump and you don't have the same intensity on defense, that's a problem for me. It should be a problem for everybody. And, you know, great, good players when they're not when they don't have it going offensively, they get a steal defensively. They make a play, they get it.

That's how they get themselves back into the game. They go to the free throw line. And that's the other thing. I'm hoping I looked it up. Evan Fournier career or maybe this year, I'm not sure which. Averaging four point eight free throws attempts a game. Not a huge number, but my goodness, the Celtics are a disaster in that regard, too. And he's an 80 percent free throw shooter. So if nothing else, maybe he can get to the line a little bit.

Yeah, it's the rare team that can't get to the line and doesn't shoot a shitload of threes, which is not where you want to be in today's NBA priscila. No.

And on top of that, they don't defend there's a second worst defensive team this month, and that's what I don't understand, Ryan explains. It doesn't make any sense to me. I think at the point of attack, they're incredibly weak. I think Smart is coming back from the injury, but I think we'd all agree with his defensive rep. He's better against bigs and switches. You know, it's more like Giannis Yeah yeah it's great on Giannis yeah yeah.

I mean smart switch against the guy. You're like he has no chance unless you watch him all the time. You're like you know what he holds up really really well and I don't want to hold it against any perimeter guy when some of the ridiculous athletes are getting past them, when they turn down the screen and all this because most everybody like it's hard to stay in front of a ton of these guys. So put smart to just, hey, I'm going to go out there and lock all these guys down.

I think the problem for Smart is the leader is the vocal leader that has that edge that we kept hearing about when they were losing and they weren't defending it because he was out. And you can say, OK, well, he's back, but he's back post injury. I think it can be really annoying when Smart thinks he's the best player on the team to the other guys. So when the leader is the vocal guy who you think is annoying at times, too, I don't know that that message comes across as clear as it would in other cases and all of us that have watched him understand all the intangibles.

But when you think of this team, in all the moments where they've looked lackadaisical, where they look like their identity offensively is is two terrific wings taking turns each possession where other guys aren't feeling like they're involved. And you guys are right about the free throw thing.

If anything, they should just watch video other guys selling calls because Jaylen and Tatum are like tougher and that they don't really go to look to sell the call and league is about selling recall now. So if you're not doing it, you're just missing three points by not making a point of emphasizing any kind of contact. And then you add in the toughest part, which, you know, obviously you're right on point as you look through it, because in the previous part, when the trade came through at the end, you're like, OK, they're out of attacks.

That's why they did the deal. They knew they weren't going to keep them. And maybe it sets them getting out of the repeater. I'd have to look at it again here, sets some avoiding the repeater because they probably like fornia. They probably like I like Danny. Love shooters, shooters who can create a little bit.

Yeah. So I agree with that. I think they'll try to resign him. I do, yeah. I think that's part of the that's part of the play here. But, but you know, your point is a good one about trying to stop anyone at point of attack perimeter defense. But again, good teams, if there's a breakdown, you rotate your cover and you recover. Right. Rotate your plan. Right. You're funneling or that kind of stuff.

And I just don't see that happening. And you look at them individually. I think Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum can both be high level defenders. We know Marcus Smart is and some of those other guys I thought could be. And as a group you just I just expected, I expected more. Well for is that going to help them defensively. No, he has, but he will be able to bring some of the stuff to the table that they missed from Heyward side, the inclusiveness, some size, the ability to switch, even though he's not great defensively, but also like the ball can move with him a little bit.

It can cut. He knows how to play basketball. That's what they're missing from this. All right. We're going to take a break. Coming back, we want to get your thoughts on the five year odyssey of Victor Oladipo going to the.

Oh my gosh. I know. Right. Right. Coming back one second.

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All right. So this has been whispered about really since Oladipo is kicking ass his first Indiana season so you know really wants to go Miami. Well now it finally happened Houston. I we're still trying to figure out what they got in the James Hardie trade that anyone would actually want, they didn't chose not to keep Castlebar. They're just keeping their fingers crossed on all these pics, a little like what David Griffin did with that. Jrue Holiday trades. Same thing.

I got all these pics. Well, wait, let's examine. Pick my pick. Oh, wait, those pics aren't that great. And now they end up basically giving Oladipo away to Miami. Miami is one of the four best teams in the east. I think we're all kind of waiting to see if they have a surge here. Is he somebody that could actually make a difference for them in round two when they have to play probably Brooklyn, whoever the one seed is?

So I was on with Eddie Johnson the other day, I like that show, Eddie Johnson and Terminix. Yeah, yeah, I was on with those guys. Priscila we have to get Terminix on his Hoder takes that. We are.

I mean, they're they're really like that fun. Yeah. And Eddie and I got we kind of went back and forth a little bit because I was like, hey, I think all the depos, you know, worth a shot here. And he was like, absolutely not. Like he's like and he didn't want it. It wasn't like he was trying to slander Oladipo because everybody by all accounts he's a good guy.

There's, you know, he's never bother anybody but he's like, why do you want to you know, a forty two percent career field goal, you know, percentage shooter on your team. You can't score you kids. You want a little bit, you know he was gone and so we kind of made me stop and think a little bit about it. And at the time we were discussing that, we thought either Tyler hero, although unlikely, but probably Duncan Robinson would have to be in the deal.

Right. And he's that he's not, so I don't understand this, I don't know how well it's a pig swap where they're not going to even have the worst pick in the trade.

I just don't understand it from Houston side. Do you guys?

I do, because I think the market was absolutely abysmal for Oladipo because other teams knew even if I'm getting him in here is a rental like what do I want to give up. Everybody thought the other team. Look, I don't talk to all 30 teams, but there are enough teams that are like, look, he's going to Miami or New York is a free agent anyway. Yeah, him turning down the extension really wasn't that big of a deal because it was a shorter extension.

They could have offered him a much bigger extension Houston could have with the bird rights if they wanted to this summer.

But the work they could only offer the two, which was weird that he even got out, because then when I got out I went well why would Oladipo did Oladipo camp wanted out to let people know hey they're offering tax money or to Houston's camp. I want to get it out to say like hey we tried, we tried it. Yeah, we're trying to take care of this guy.

So I also always kind of like to follow the Woj timeline because he was saying all week like there was, there was something in play, there is something in play. And I wonder if Houston knows, hey, we have this terrible Miami deal available so we know we can trade him if we absolutely want to trade him. And then other teams that I talked to said they were calling about Oladipo all the time and so it all adds up. This is really the best.

I don't, I don't think it's necessarily like I'm not going to say it's a good trade. I think it's the only trade. Wow, I for me, it's hard to believe the Lakers wouldn't come flying in off the top rope at this point.

If it's all right, if this this is the trade, I will throw tobacco and our second round pick or anything, I will I will tell you in my my little, you know, dialing around the league a bit in the in the days leading up to this, there just seems to be some lingering questions about his health, his long term health. And that's always a red flag. What is he. Is he twenty eight. Twenty eight. Yeah.

Yes, twenty eight. So he's young enough if he's not damaged goods. And I think that's a really heavy, heavy, heavy moniker to put on him. I don't see evidence of that one. I'm watching him play right now.

But there seems to be some there was seem to be some hesitation from teams about that as well, which is interesting because it's been how long now since that I mean, it was a bad injury, but it's been almost it's brutal. It's been a while yet. Jagi. It's a great point because I think all of us just assume, especially when you're younger, you're like, OK, so what does this mean? He's just done now, like, he's just never going to be like that seems pretty significant.

And yet there are times where I think he looks physically OK and then other times he doesn't. But it all collectively looked bad and it looked I'm totally willing to believe that it's going to look better in Miami just because he's not going to be with Houston, who I think at one point played the starting lineup of any team in the league.

Yeah, of course. I mean, poor Stephen Silas. I'm going to say it again. Absolutely. Yeah. It's just so unfair.

And you you put him in Miami and both smart and he's going to be playing around veterans who understand him, who want him there, who want to make it work. Jimmy Butler, you know, I don't know what their relationship is, but he's going to you know, he's going to bring them in with open arms. It's just interesting, though, because they're a team that's had trouble shooting this year, which still astonishes me that we would say that about Miami.

But they've had trouble with their, you know, three point shooting and everything. And that's not Victor Oladipo. It's not going to solve that problem. Hero has had a rocky second season, so it looks like Miami is getting Aldridge and this was on out. Yeah at pick up poop tweeted this Miami turned Meyers, Leonard Kelly Olynyk Mo Harkless and Avery Bradley in to Trevor Ariza Basilica.

I still can't say it Oladipo and Aldridge That's a pretty big lead So they got Irisa bolita Oladipo on Aldridge for four guys to other than Olynyk was the only one who is playing out of those four That's pretty with an Olynyk step right up Yeah Lenox Yeah so be it Lisa That's a nice little pick up. I just think he was you know on a team that there was some unusual depth that his position on a not very good team. I thought the Celtics might make a run at him too and I think they did.

But you know I Fornero think was their, their priority I guess. But at least it will help them, I think. Yeah, they certainly have a nine man rotation. That's pretty impressive. Rosillo Kelly Olynyk Buy-Out. What's the most fun team from a comedy standpoint for him. Lakers.

I've tried it. Now we get a you know Dallas.

No, no the Cavs. He took down Kevin Love. Come on guys. It's the kind of cars and expect that Kevin Love probably has in his contract that can he has veto power over that. It's not a no. He doesn't have his own trade veto but he veto that. I say Dallas make it look like Hoosiers. Oh wow.

With Redick and and Luka and Kleber. Yeah. You just go out running out Norman on the sidelines. Rondo to the Clippers jacking. Yeah I'm surprised you makes a lot of money. Makes too much money but maybe the Clippers don't care. Maybe Ballmer doesn't care. He definitely doesn't care. Yeah he definitely, definitely does not care. And I see I put Rondo in, he's not as good as Kyle Lowry but I put him in the same category and that like he doesn't care.

I remember someone told me, as you know, when he was with the Lakers, with his first year with LeBron, like LeBron, I forget what the context was. But Rondo looked and because. Yeah, man, you're not don't do that, man. Like, he has no problem saying that to anybody. Everybody. He's going to be a really good coach in this league. And I think he helped Trae Young a lot in the short time he was with them in Atlanta.

But he but he wasn't very helpful as a player gets injured. He struggled. So I don't know, maybe the Clippers won him for as much his wisdom. You know, he's the Yoda of the group. And certainly Tyler knows him well from their time together in Boston. So I like it. I mean, I don't understand. The price tag for him, another thing I don't understand so much. Yeah, seven and a half million next year, too.

I totally understood why Atlanta was trying to do what they had, all this cap space.

The guy trying to figure out why it, hey, keep them around. I also understand why the Clippers did it when they don't care about money because they felt like point guard thing needed to improve. Can I just throw this out there? Because I don't think anyone's going to agree with me, OK?

I've Jacqui knows this better than anybody, but the legendary stories of Rondos understanding of the game like it's it's incredible, right? It's like just next level stuff. Why is he going to be a good coach when he never seems to get along with it like anybody after a little while? Isn't that the number one job is to have a personality that sort of defines defer to the. Maybe he's like a duck. Maybe it'll be a duck Collins or who have two really good years.

Then the third year you're just going to have to go see.

I'm going to push back on this whole narrative. I expected you to. So who who does he not get along with? Ray Allen. OK, Ray Allen. He's not the only one that did get along with Ray Allen.

So what team was he on board with? Doc for a while he battled with Carlisle.

Well, about the coaches, that's different than players. And he battled with Carlisle because that was a bad fit for both of them, that that trait never should have happened. I remember talking to Rick and Rick was like saying all the right things, but I think that was Cuban that wanted that to happen back at that. Or maybe Rick Junior Ricky shut it down. The pelicans, he shut it down when he was at the Lakers. He sat in the seats and then got mad when the media was like, I know that's a little disrespectful, Luke Walton.

So we can say that you get along with the players, did one with the coaches. I just think you have to be wired a certain way now with younger players that you can't be as combative. And maybe Bill's right. Maybe it's a two year thing where it's like, whoa, this guy really woke us up. But now we got animatics. Scott Skiles.

Yes, but here I like those coaches. But let me tell you a story about Rondo. So Rondo was playing with I gotta remember, I'm confusing the teams.

He was with Chicago, right? Yeah, he was. He was right. This was Chicago. Did you know what he did on his off day? He was going to their G League affiliate and watching the young players and staying after the game and talking to them and giving them pointers. That's the Rondo most people don't know about. OK, but could it be because nobody wanted to hang out with them? No, no, no, no.

I'm just seeing those guys. I'm just kidding. I'll swear by. I know. You know, so I think there's I think I think he's growing and changing.

I've talked to him a lot in the last calendar year, more than I had in previous years. And he's recognizing, you know, I could've handled things better in Dallas. I could have done things differently here. You know, the guys what I did that story on him for the playoffs last year. I talked to Bobby Portis and all these young guys that played with him. And I was just curious what they thought of him. Yeah. And they're all like, no, no.

He was he was the man. Like the minute the game ended there on the plane, he's got his laptop open. He's going over plays. And and he would like if a young player went because you want me to show you this and not like, hey, get over here, kid, get over your rookie. Do you want to can I show you this? And, you know, you can walk by or you could sit down next to him and learn something.

So I my money's on Rondo as a coach. I think he's going to be good. I have a half decent Rondo story. I hosted this charity thing for the Celtics with the Shamrock Foundation where they had all the players to do it like every October. So I was M.S. one year I was I was in the stands in the in the crowd. Bill, do you do very well. I did well. So but very glib. Very glib.

It was Rondo's last season. Right. So he's the best player in the team. It was this new era for the Celtics. And at one point we had to interview the players. So was on the stage with Rondo. And, you know, he's like, hey, how you doing? And then we start doing it on the stage. There's probably like five hundred people that I don't even know how many. And there was one question early.

And I could see, you know, when there's certain people when you're with them. You're talking to them, but you can feel it, you feel like they're sizing you up like they're kind of like studying you, they're studying your mannerisms, they're almost like you feel like it's like Arnold Schwarzenegger, the Terminator. They're just kind of processing all these things. Of and I could see him watching me as I was doing the emcee thing and but not watching me like I hope this guy does well, more watching me, like trying to figure me out.

And I think I had some question early and maybe he, like intentionally didn't give me the greatest answer. It was almost like he was trying to test me to see how I'd respond and then act quickly, like audible what they were like, oh, I guess I'm not getting anything from Rondo today or something like that. And I kind of gave it back to him and then he like snapped in and then all of a sudden he was like really engaged.

It was like he had to kind of test me to see how I would handle him being kind of a dick. And I kind of think that's awesome. I got to think that's what it's like to be his teammate, though, right? He's probably he takes each person and he's like, does these little weird Rondeau personality tests on them? And if they pass, then he's in. And if they don't pass these out, I think he's one of those guys.

I think he's outgrown that. I do. Well, yeah, this was eight years ago. Yeah. I think that's I think he's learned a lot through the years from he's played with think about the guys that he's played with. He's played with some of the greatest players of all time, starting with CGG, Paul Pierce, Dirk Nowitzki. I mean, he's he's got a pretty good LeBron James Davis, you know, tell me when to stop and all genuine all those guys are just named.

I think if you ask any one of them what they think of Rondo, the answer is going to be pretty positive. And then you take the young players like that. I mentioned like a guy like Bobby Portis, there were a bunch of young guys like they're escaping me out of my brain right now, Trae Young being one of them, too. And those guys have great ideas. So it's the kind of like the guys in the middle, maybe that.

Hmm, maybe those are the ones he's not exactly sure how to how to navigate. Where do you see Drummond going? Well, I would I would have said maybe the Lakers as a pickup is the Lakers, that's just as a buyout or the Heat as a buyout, but they're going with Aldridge. I mean, people keep connecting him to the Celtics. Maybe now that Tice is gone. I don't see it, but possible, I guess. What's the price tag?

You know, I think it's could be the Knicks. But, Rosillo, it would be fun if Drummond went to the Lakers for the LeBron media mafia, if Drummond kind of came together and it just would be another bow in the in the in the series of Quivers four for LeBron, right. Oh, Drummond, nobody's ever gotten as much a dratted Drummond as LeBron did. We could have that whole narrative for a couple of days. That would be fun.

There you go. I just don't think anything is going to top a Forno GM record in the All-Star Game.

No, no. If we're going LeBron like him. Salvaging Dwight Howard's career has to be number one all time for him. He'll never top that Dwight Howard. Everyone was done out. It was over. Even the Celtics wouldn't look at him and they actually needed a center like his career was over and LeBron turned him into an asset. Again, it's unbelievable single handedly.

Well, how do you know it was LeBron? Because who else was doing it because it was mobs? I completely underestimated the fact that LeBron brings everything to him and lobbed like it.

Look, I understand everybody has to collapse and worry about LeBron, but like the first couple of weeks of regular season games between Dwight Gibbsville, I went, oh, wait, they're just going to get easy lobs the entire time because LeBron is amazing.

So I look, I still think one of the best basketball accomplishments of the last 20 years is him bringing that that seven team to the finals because that that team being in the NBA finals, if you look at that Cleveland roster, is I've always wanted to counting rings. I'm meeting the Pistons was unbelievable. You're right. It's the lost LeBron accomplishment. That team was really good. All a lot of the early LeBron stuff was kind of incredible. But I'll say this about Dwight Howard.

I don't think you're giving him enough credit for good.

I'm glad I'm glad I know you that way because I don't want to give him credit. I know you don't. I get it.

But I'm telling you, he was at rock, rock, rock bottom. He had, like, fired is like 12th agent. And I think he was smart enough to know I can't I have to keep my mouth shut and play hard and just be it just I got to give up, you know, it's like Melo, right? Melo finally was like, all right, maybe I will come off the bench. You know, it's kind of the same thing with Dwight Howard.

OK, maybe I just have to be a backup banger agitator disrupter that might score once in a while. And if I can do that and I know I can do that, then I'm going to have, you know, three or four more years. So I give him a little credit to know Lonzo trade, which we we talked about earlier.

Yeah. I never told him why I was buying that. You wouldn't. Did anything happen today that made either of you change your opinion on who would win the title. Oh no. I thought you were going to ask me. That surprised me like much. I didn't, I didn't think I was going. I thought, OK, let's talk about that. Why didn't you think he was going. Because of my intel was telling me that they're probably not going to move him now.

They got. You know, did they get enough, they got they want pics, they got Carter, they got Porter. The expired I guess they got once they made the determination we're really doing this, we're really.

But I mean, Chicago, I like what happened to Chicago. And if they had gotten Lonzo, I would have been really happy for him. They kept your boy Lauri Markkanen Yeah kept him. I can still sign him when I get hired as a GM I feel like I can still get Markkanen and Mely and Monck and hack and build the team. I want to be ok and then you can finish twelfth in the conference.

I said ok who's who else do I like. Oh by the way I never stopped liking Javon Green. I know he never played but I still feel like I would, he would have a room on my bench so that of of looking at me like I'm crazy. Well, yeah, that one doesn't make any sense. I mean, I know he's super athletic and stuff, and there's a cool dunk every now and then.

But as I said, I would rather have that than just guys who ran to the corners so they could miss the three of it. At least right now they have somebody doing stuff. So you still have Brooklyn to win the title. Yes, I do, because, well, I mean, we have to always say if Durant and it's just a long time he's been out and I get why they're doing it, I would do it, too. But now it's like he and Anthony Davis both just out, out, out.

And both for the same reasons. Right. Any area down there, the calf, the hamstring, it leads to that Achilles. And it's just we've all learned our lesson. You just can't mess with that. But, yeah, Brooklyn, everybody I talked to, all the coaches, everybody I could talk to, they're like we just never knew Harden would be this compliant and this all in compliant. Well, yeah, because he is he's he's showing up for conditioning drills.

He's you know, he's doing everything and more he's not worrying about any of the shots and we've talked about it. Maybe it changes in the playoffs, from what I understand. You know, he he knows he messed up in the way, blasted out of Houston. He's embarrassed about it. And, you know, maybe it only lasts for this year, but even if it only lasts for this year, you know, I've asked coaches time and time again, can you flip the switch defensively?

If you're a talented team, can you switch the can you flip that switch defensively in time and then turn around and win a championship? And everybody says, yes, you can't flip a switch offensively. That's impossible because usually you don't have the talent. So I'm trusting my experts on this.

I'm trying to think of a team that couldn't flip the switch. So I guess it would be like that. Yeah. Defensively, I guess you would go to like those the Nash Suns team. But it had more to do with the fact that they were just undersized against.

Yeah. And they just played a different way. So people have told me in the past, you know, that that that fateful Lakers team where they they loaded up with Payton and Malone and everybody, that they they were a bit like that, that they just said, oh, don't worry about that, Will. We'll get that straight away. We'll get that straight away in time. Know, that was just a team of guys that just took way too much for granted, you know?

Well, look, the Warriors, the Warriors, throughout that entire run, they were a special defensive team. They were. And then the last year, you could see that was slipping a little bit. But it still has more to do with the injuries than their defensive switch. But we had Bob Meyers on the show and I said, look, I'm noticing some things or whatever, like what do you see? What do you think? And he goes, you know, if you were to hike Mount Everest with your best friends and you did it and you were like, this is amazing.

And then I said, hey, let's do it again next week. Like, you would still want to do it, maybe. But you just you're not going to be. And I think that's I mean, look, it's the Bulls, that second three team, everything we've learned about it. What I don't like is when a team that's accomplished nothing thinks they can turn off the switch and they're like, don't worry. I mean the Celtics Kyrie team, the last Kyrie year was the poster.

I'm not just saying this because of the three of us. That's why that team annoyed the hell out of me because they kept acting like they'd won a couple titles being like, well once we turn it on and once we have a look out and you go, there's nothing here that tells me I'm supposed to give you any benefit of the doubt whatsoever. And that's how bad they were in the second round. So I'm I'm OK with a team not being as locked in that has the resume to do it.

But it's funny how with that Lakers example you have, Jackie, that was other players that were kind of almost taking credit for the Lakers previous resume when it's like, OK, but your group, your group has no right to tell us we're supposed to just believe you about this magical switch. 100 percent agree with that.

Can I give you can I give you one team that I wish I had done something today? Get your reactions from the Suns of Phoenix. What did you want them to do? So I guess the question for me. Do we think Ayten in a playoff series? If they're down three to playing in L.A. or. I don't know, they're down three to nine in Denver, Philly or whatever, do we think he can we can trust him in the last six minutes of a game that they need the second guy, the security blanket, in case the eight thing isn't going the right way.

That would have been my question with them. Go ahead, Ryan, come on, Rosillo, I know you have thoughts. I don't think they have a lot of pieces that they could have moved out unless they said, all right, let's go ahead and move a draft pick in the draft pick from this year. Nobody would have interested.

I think Jalen Smith would have been on the move, right? Yeah, the tenth pick last year. And you maybe move him with Soraj and now you can get somebody in the 15 million range. I guess that would have been the move. And who did you want? I don't know. Maybe that's why they didn't make the move, because there was that person. Or maybe they think they can get a buyout guy. But weirdly, I think that would be a great Oleynik team.

I do think, like, he could potentially play for them and I think he would play well with the way that that team is just a really smart half court team. I think he's a smart half court player. I think. Yeah, he's got a little size. Yeah. I mean, the question about eight is to me, it's just how do we know we just don't have a big enough sample size to answer that question? They've he's never played in a.

Really, really super meaningful playoff game yet, I would argue. So I don't feel great about it. Yeah, I don't feel great about it either. All right.

But you know, just because you don't feel great about something doesn't mean there's a solution out there for him. So I would have thought if Phoenix is going to do anything, maybe they would to kick the tires on, you know, a George Hill deal at another ballhandling shooter. Do we want to do this when we want to go small? Sometimes, because I think Phoenix will be trying to do whatever they can, but I doubt they're afraid of Utah.

And if the Lakers part of this isn't healthy, you know, Phoenix, I have no problem with Phoenix not doing anything because I also think they're looking around going, hey, we might not be that far off. Like, it might not be inconceivable, but the eight and part of it is something that at least the last month, although I think he's finished games a little bit more, more, I think about it. But there is a weird stretch where they were you know, you were looking at his March minutes, I think he was 17 minutes heading into this week on the team for fourth quarter minutes.

Excuse me. So, you know, it could be a matchup thing. It could be trying to get him him going again, but being concerned about him, even though I say that I'm not to the point where I just completely write them off because I just respect Paul and what Booker can do so much. And Bridges.

He's too young. He's too young. No. Yeah, I'm not I'm not saying trade him. I'm just saying no. I know. I thought I mean, I actually think the sensors are a legit contender. They were any their record heading into last night was twenty nine and thirteen, so they were twenty one in five over the last twenty six. And a lot of those winds were convincing. They lost a really dumb game to a magic team that would trade everybody twelve hours later.

Yeah. No longer exists. But if they had won the game yesterday they had been thirty and thirteen there to seed. The Lakers are not getting the two seed with the injuries they have. I guess the Clippers could make a run. The Nuggets are four back. What about the Nuggets? Did you already talk about them in part one, two or three? We did, but let's hear your thoughts. Well, so the nuggets to me were interesting.

They got to Valmiki, too, didn't they? I think yes. Yes, we liked we like that. So that's what they needed to. We had talked, I think, Bill, last week even about the idea they needed a RIM Protector to take some pressure off Yokich. And so to Valmiki, if nothing else can be that right, you're not asking him to do a lot. You're going to ask him to do a little. And Javal McGee plays limited minutes anyway.

So he I liked that. And I really just like where Denver was at the trading deadline because I told you not to not to sour on my boy Jamal Murray, who is now just like lighten it up. And and Michael Porter Junior is now rounding into form. And all of a sudden to me, they look like a pretty scary team now, Gordon. I think he helps them. You know, Gary Harris, again, I just thought Orlando would get more.

I just thought they'd get more. And Gary Harris Junior can be a good player, but he's just hurt all the time. I just don't know how you lay your hat on that, because he I mean, how many games do you miss this year?

Already over played 19 games this year. Yeah. So it's just it's a shame because I think there's a talented player there, but you got to be able to get on the floor. It's like Romeo Langford, you know, you've got to get on the floor. Yes. At some point their ability is becomes a skill at some point one hundred percent. So I think Aaron Gordon, I like him as a piece for the next, but I'm not 100 percent sure.

Again, he's about a thirty two percent three point shooter. But he can he can he could score off the dribble. He could slash you know, maybe he what he does do is limit the help you manage the minutes of your stars a little better because you can give them a blow and he can go out there and score a little bit for you while they're on the bench resting. So I like I'm bullish on Denver. I like where they're at.

I think we haven't seen the best version of Denver yet, and I think it's coming. I like, you know, we're headed for an round one is Phoenix locked into that two seed and or if Phoenix got fell to the three seed because I think there's a chance the Clippers can pass them and become the two seed in Phoenix, three seed, and then some jockeying to see who can play the succeed because everyone's going to want to play Phoenix, Phoenix out of it, followed by the district's Chris Paul deciding it's a sign of disrespect and some sort of awesome storyline with that.

Well, I thought this was a really fun trade deadline. Before we go, Jackie, so I found out my dad is a huge UConn women's basketball fan, like three weeks ago. Oh, Paige Buker. So I don't know. It's not like he was hiding this from me. We're just he's 3000 miles away. There's TV shows he watches I don't know about. There's fan things. So he was here visiting a few weeks ago and we're going to go to dinner.

And he was watching the UConn women's basketball game, whoever they're playing. And I'm like, like, what's going on here? Why are you watching UConn? And he's like, I'm a big UConn fan. And I'm like, what, since when when did this happen, like you were always like Holy Cross, like now you're UConn and apparently he's been really into UConn women's basketball the last couple of years. And he's enamored with Paige, as you say, how great she is.

And as you said, wait till you see Zazie Foud. They're like best friends. And she was the number one recruit in Yukon's, got her on the hook for next year. So where's Paige? In the hierarchy. Like, it's too early. It's too early. It's too early. But but how talented she though? Oh, no, she's she's breaking all sorts of UConn records, freshman records. She's really, really good at it. And but as you fuds, even better.

So it's like bring it on the embarrassment of riches, bring it on. It's too early to say where she is. I still think Maya Moore was incredible for sure. But I've never seen anybody like Diana Taurasi. De Atrocity is my favorite athlete of all time in any sport, male or female. There's just no one else like her. She's just like Kobe Bryant, Bill Russell, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, all wrapped into one person who just spews profanities and backs it up.

And just everything about her is just I'm not promoting profanity. I guess maybe. Yeah, I guess I am. But I just I have never met anybody like her. And I just she's just one of my I just loved watching her play and. And I don't know that anyone will ever have that, you know, she's Kyle Lowry times 10 in the talent category, but the same grittiness, the same in your face, the same person that her passion sometimes is going to be too much for her teammates and probably even her coach.

I mean, watching the two of them go at it, Geno and Diana, you know, they're both Italian. And just her parents spoke Italian. They didn't even speak a lot of English. It just it was a match made in heaven. So I could go on all day about the I think she's just really tremendous. I sat courtside with my daughter and my daughter was like, I don't know, 8:00 for Sparks game. And it was Tarazi, have you seen her in person, Priscilla, or did you see her at her peak?

Yeah, we we saw when she came by just the way she carried herself as she walked around, it was unbelievable.

I mean, she she was so alpha dog. It was unbelievable. And she's dropping F bombs and. Oh, yeah, my daughter loved it. She was like, what? Well, because she played like a guy and everybody used to say, why do you play the guy?

And she's like, what's wrong with that? My my favorite the most incredible moment. I still have it etched in my mind. I was in London for the Olympics. They won the gold medal. And I don't know if you guys remember that. She may not. She has trouble with migraines and he couldn't show up for the postgame press conference because he had a terrible migraine. So he's just won a gold medal and he can't do the post game because he's got this horrible migraine.

So sitting up there by herself and someone just asks her somewhat of an innocuous question about what does it mean to you to win this gold medal with Geno? And and she just went into this thing and she was I'll never forget, like she was staring straight ahead. And she's like, you know, he's just like no one has reached inside to my body and ripped out my heart the way this guy has. And, you know, I tell him things I don't tell my best friends.

And she's not like gesturing and and engaging with you. And she's like straight ahead. And she's like, I tell I tell him things I don't tell my parents. And she's crying like the tears are pouring. This is one of the toughest people I've ever seen in my life anywhere. And she's bawling, talking about this coach. And I was just it was one of the most incredible sports moments I've ever encountered. It was me. And it's too bad that it was the women's gold medal game because no one cared enough to blow it up the way it should have been.

It still bothers me. She's the goat, there's a great Cheryl Miller case, though. Oh, well, Cheryl Miller, had she stayed healthy? She's the widow. There's the widow of case of that. Yeah, but I really I mean, I adore Cheryl Miller. And I saw I covered her. My first ever women's final four was her freshman year at USC when she won the championship. And she she said she won that she said she was going to do a cartwheel and she did a cartwheel.

And like Pat Summitt was like, what the hell?

And then she had to play for Pat Summitt after that. And Pat Summitt has given her all sorts of crap that, you know, she finally went into her office because where we got to do it, she goes, you got to stop doing cartwheels. You know, it was like a great moment. That's terrible. I had a lot of spunk. I love Cheryl Rosillo is a good sports radio topic because she's really polarizing for some reason, right?

Well, he just has no filter whatsoever. And he's awesome. I mean, I've I've met him a couple of times. I've had him on one of my favorite things he ever did, because, you know, it seems to come up every now and then because you can see when you're watching a women's game, there's just this evolvement that I think is happened at a faster rate because men were a certain point. And then when you're starting to see some of the stuff that women are doing, you just say, OK, you know?

And then, of course, it inevitably leads to the talk show thing of like, hey, is it even ever possible? Is it ever possible? And I remember having Geno on and he's like to he's the most badass player I've ever coached in my entire life. What the hell is she going to do against Dwayne Wade? All right. Yeah, she's guarding Dwayne Wade and he's like shooting down that. It's it's just like, look, this is a basketball conversation.

It's stupid to even suggest that she's going to play in the NBA and be able to stay in front of Dwayne Wade.

And here's one of the best proponents of of women's basketball in recent history. But he has no problem just being like, OK, if we're just talking to basketball, OK, I'm going to set you straight on this bullshit topic. And here you go. And I think I think it's a turnoff at times for people being like, wait a minute, why would he be critical? And he's not saying I'm not being critical. You're asking me a question.

And I've been around basketball my whole life and I'm just telling you. So unfortunately, it leads to like kind of diminishing the product on the female side, which sucks. Like, that's not what anybody's necessarily trying to do. But I think that he would answer the question the way most people would off the air on the air that it leads to him having, I think, unfairly way too many detractors. And I'm just telling you right now, I fucking love Geno Auriemma.

All right. Yeah, so does my dad, my dad, my dad's right there with you, you know, it's funny you mention how women's basketball is hitting this point where you can see things jumping up a level athletically to step back and some of the stuff for two years. I'm not saying it's never been there, but it's across the board now on some of these moves where I think as a younger, prickly guy, you would go, oh, you know, whatever.

And now you're like, I can't I couldn't defend any of this stuff. What was it was reminiscent of, like the Elgin stuff this week, I think. Right. I think Elgin got some of his due this week for. All right. This was the first cuzzi was the first entertaining basketball player we had. Elgin was the first entertaining athletic basketball player we had offensively and did things that people were like, what the fuck is going on? How is this doing this?

And completely transformed everything people thought possible. Yeah, he was Dr. J. Before his doctor J. And, you know, one thing I would say about though, Ryan and I think this is one of the things that I hear a lot and I mean, I did a book with Genwal, so I really grew you know, people used to call the UConn thing a cult. By the time I was done doing that book, I was like, where do I sign up?

Because it's all about discipline and, you know, like fighting for each other. Like like I grew up in Westwood, Massachusetts, and our high school team didn't lose a league game for, like, I don't know, fifteen years or so. Jackie, were you the best player on the team? Not even close, really. I didn't even. Jackie, Jackie's a really good player.

No, I didn't even start playing till my junior high school. Ryan, I was afraid to try out for this team. That's how big it was in our town and in our school. The games are sold out. You know, they would have remember Evening magazine, you guys are all from Boston that show Robin Young did.

Oh, yes, we were Áron.

We were on Ebony magazine, like our my high school used to call in, like, just I love driving.

Yeah. Oh, my God. I still love Robin Young.

Great. She she dated, you know. She did. Good trivia question. Marvin Barnes, Pat Metheny, the great jazz musician on live support with any live one of the best concerts over. But yeah. Yeah, right. Billy, I'm not if I'm not mistaken, Robin Young dated Pat Metheny, Bayway.

But anyway, my point was like, when you get to these situations where your teams are better and everybody's always gunning for you, I think the one mistake that Geno made was that whole back and forth with Pat Summitt because Pat Summitt. Is the gold standard of women's basketball, she just is because of what she did to get it from, you know, to to bring it along, and she did it in a certain she did in a complete opposite way.

As you know, Geno is going to be in your face. He's going to challenge you. Patches did it in a completely different way. And no matter how good Geno was and he told me this when I did this book with him, no matter how good he was, he was never going to be Pat Summitt. And it drives him crazy. And you can see why, because in genos mind, he's a much better coach. And Pat Summitt.

Yeah. And he's won more championships and everything else. But no matter how good he was, how much they won this closeness that his team had, which I would just think anyone should want, that it's so amazing to be part of a team where, you know, the kids that played 10 years before you and 10 years after that special.

That special. Right. Celtics and the Lakers have that. Two teams have that. Tennessee has it. Actually, Tennessee has it. But no matter what, there was a whole collection of people that were never going to Geno was never going to live up to Pat Summitt. And I think it drives them crazy. And I think it's the one time in his career where that's something he should have found a way to handle a little better. You know, that's an interesting point about I think this is what men's college basketball has really lost with the one and done era is that concept of the ten years before, ten years after and how that how the teams connect.

I just remember that Duke team where it was like Grinnell was the freshman that one year. And then he says, and then you pass it off and that it just there's a connective tissue that I think starting in the late 90s just went away and one and done takes. And then the coach, the coach basically became the connective tissue. But you hear like Kentucky's big on the culture they create, right. The next they're basically trying to recreate the Kentucky culture by taking a lot of their players doing the same things.

But it's really hard to have that if the guys are staying one year or two years. And that's it. They've been there. Anthony Davis spent seven months on campus like. Right. How transformative of an experience could that have possibly been for him?

You know, so I think that and interestingly, the UConn men had that as well. I mean, you know that Ryan, those guys with Jim Calhoun was there. There was that same connective tissue. And I think, you know, Kevin Ollie tried to continue it. And then, you know, now it's just a whole different it's I mean, I don't even know what's going on in Calhoun.

The thing that was really cool about those guys is I think some programs pretend that everybody's like still part of the family. But those UConn guys take a special pride in kind of being in the middle of nowhere coming from all over the country. And that, Jim, you know, it wasn't the most hands on coach, but he just trusted you physically, like, hey, you're going to get out there, bust your ass, play defense. We're going to let you guys run as much as you want and do your thing.

And then you think about all the pros they put in. And those guys came back and really were I mean, whatever. It's not like every single guy got along, but there was just something kind of special, like, look, it's not Duke, it's not Kentucky, it's not Kansas. All right, Sheila, it's UConn. And stores in the middle of nowhere. And they were getting these guys in from all over the place. And, you know, granted, I was I was a lot closer to it than some of the other programs just because I was living there and was friendly with a couple of guys that played, but.

I I know that that culture thing is something that everybody I mean, nothing is to the standard of any culture, but everybody tries to have it, everybody tries to have it. And it's it's like you don't get to just print T-shirts and pretend you have it. And both youcan had it. And I think the other thing is kind of funny about Jeno in in Jim and I like both. I've been lucky enough to meet him multiple times, is, you know, they work in this house.

They work in a summer house together any time soon. And I think that added to it. That was kind of because I think down south, the men's and women's coach would have pretended they got along a little bit better. And in the Northeast, because of both of their backgrounds, they're like, let's not pretend we're buddies here. Like, you know, you're from Mars and I don't give a shit either and whatever. Yeah. So it was kind of funny.

I was funny.

Neither one of them like to pretend to be Jim Calhoun and Rick Pitino hated each other. Northeasterner. But you I mean, they hated each other. They used to run around the city, the reservoir sometimes, and they'd just run past each other. They wouldn't even say hello like that. She said those guys really did not like each other. And and Gino and Jim, what was interesting was Jim was close with a lot of the female players and Geno was close with a lot of the male players and how he Dickerman, the assistant coach for UConn, I pretty sure he's the godfather to one of Gino's kids.

I mean, so there was a lot of cross pollination between they regardless of what the two men thought of each other, the programs never let that affect their affection for one another. No, on both sides, that was really cool to be around, really. Was Rosillo semiannually in the corner with five seconds left for Jackie right now, who would you take? Well, Jackie's more physical than I had no idea what that range yeah, she would she would.

You know, I don't know if Daryl Morey would like her game, but she would she would get in there and mix it up. Old school, like, you know that. You know the kind of game, Jack, that I played against each other in a Celtics video game.

We did. I was like, who is this asshole? Oh, no. Because he was he did what he should do. He was very aggressive. Right. He's like, if she's going to play that, she's going to play. And he was like coming down. And I was like, because I was almost like, I should just take a charge on this guy just because we didn't know each other that well. But I didn't say by the end you were the best player on the floor, really, of all the media guys.

I mean, I'm not counting I don't know what a day for you. So nobody has called us account scout until now.

He does Escalus get mad because Ryan was pulling up, but, you know, hitting a jumper here and there over Maskell's, like, oh, wait a minute, on the pro I got to show. So Scout come down and like, knock over me and like Heather Walker who like the PR person for the well by the way, is it bad she like. Yeah she did.

She did. But like skells going to like come at us like it was just ridiculous.

So. Well Jackie's leaving out the best part because people definitely were down on me after that game for one specific play.

And I was just so honored to I mean, look, whatever it can sound cheesy, but to get to actually sit up there and run around, it was fun on the parquet is is like something where you go, this is amazing.

And let's put it this way. Not a ton was working out for me at that point in my life. So to get to run up and down inside where the Celtics are playing and because we had the rights of the radio station. So, yeah, I took a little too seriously. And Jackie had, I think, an offensive rebound and a chance for a putback. And I think the game we were up to or it was tight was it was a big so I went after that thing like I mean Bismack Biyombo in the ACB looked like when he looked good and I spiked it pretty good and it was hard and people on the baseline, I think a couple of players were around in there like Jesus dude I didn't mind it, I didn't mind it because if I'm going to play that's the Dielman.

That's the one I didn't like.

The one I didn't like was when you came through the lane. I forget who was there. It wasn't me. It was some poor lane guy.

I don't know, some guy that didn't belong out there. And I'm like, don't do it to him. Like, I could take it. Don't do it. They have. I forget who it was. Yeah, I don't care.

I didn't care. But the thing is that I ended up getting out on like no one was listening on radio show back then anyway. And then we had you on because the other guys were like, we heard that you block Jack McFarland shot. Of course, you know, Jackie's a legend. So it was partly that I'm like, why are you why are you why are you messing with her? I know I got to clean up the swearing with Jackie's here, but I just was like, hey, the game.

I was like, it was a huge possession. We were keeping score. And I had. And so, Jackie, here's the thing is this why Jackie's awesome is that she came on because my co-host, like, we got to have her on, like, what's wrong with you? People were calling into the show, calling me like just like you're the worse, you're the worst. And yet she goes, hey, we're wearing uniforms.

The game counted is lame is that may sound. And he wanted to make a defensive play. She's like, I would have had way bigger problem with him if he just let me score. And I was like, yeah, I didn't even even cross my mind to let it score. So I took it too seriously. I was a loser back then.

No, no, you weren't a loser because, you know, I just remember saying at the end of the game, like, you won the game for your team. I'm like a good game, like whatever. It's all good. You know, guys before us and since us have done the same thing, Ryan, everybody goes into the game and you and some guys haven't played in a long time or some like you were playing three or four nights a week.

And we're totally into it. And everybody, like I decided very early on, like there is nothing to prove here. This is not the place to prove anything.

You know, it's not a good idea.

I was trying to get a ten day out of it. Yeah. Because, you know, I remember Tony Mars played in one of those games and I was kind of near the end. And Heather's like, please, we got to get some one. I'm like, I'm too old to be playing. I'm not playing regular anymore. I don't want to get hurt. And Tony Mars came out there and he's running around. He tore his Achilles like on the planet, a game.

That's the problem.

If you don't if you don't run around at all, go ahead. And I'm like, I'm done. This is it. That was the last game I ever played in twenty minutes. Thank you, Tony. You saved me a torn Achilles. Yeah.

You got to be careful with that stuff. That's why I got it. I felt like I got out in time. Didn't I'm expecting a tyrannical I'm expecting to tear an Achilles. I just don't plan. Right. How. Well how old are you.

Forty five. So I was, I was playing. Yeah. Hold up. Yeah. I don't know. I'm telling you. I'm telling you I play it. If I had to have fusion surgery on my neck I could do it over. I would have stopped six years sooner. There's no way I'm not I, I expect to die out there.

It's like Rocky Balboa Rock. Don't go for the fifth. I got not worth it. It's just not worth it. If I could do it over, I would stop a little bit sooner and not have what I that the misery I had for three years, which is now over, thankfully, but still.

Well, this was an unexpected conclusion to our trade deadline podcast, but I really had to get. Rosillo, it was a blast, as always, Jacqui. Fantastic stuff. What's your next piece? Can you tell us? I don't know.

I don't I'm not 100 percent sure. I'm bandying a couple of things about. Right. Then don't shout at them, OK? I'm not sure yet. I'll get check out Jack is jamhuri piece, which I think went up last week. That was really good. I felt dumb about saying they should have traded him for Hardan. How about that condition?

Wasn't that cool, Kobe? Yeah, that was cool. That was my favorite part. That's what we call tease, if you want to know what I'm talking about. Go read the piece because I'm not telling you. All right. Check out Rasselas podcast.

Check out Jacki on all these platforms. And you can listen to the other three parts of this podcast as well. We put up four parts. This is part four. Thanks for listening. We'll see you not coming back until Monday on this podcast. So see on Monday. When we saw. It ends with. Wearside.