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Tonight's episode of the businessman's podcast on the podcast network brought to you by Spotify, which has the best podcast listening experience around you can change your speeds. You can check out their great charts. I do not know why you're not listening to a podcast on Spotify. Check it out. We're also brought to you by Bacardi Spiced Rum during a three day weekend. Hard not to think about a little little spice, but he'd. Have you ever had one of those little rum in there?


Yeah, that's how it goes. Well, what about a Bacardi spiced rum? What about a little social distancing drinks? Yeah. Bacardi do what moves you drink responsibly. Bacardi USA, Coral Gables, Florida. Rum with natural flavors and spices. Thirty five percent alcohol by volume. Comatose. Oh, we're also brought to you by Volkswagen. Let's talk about electric cars. Some people think they're weird. I don't know who those people are, but people think anything new is weird at first.


Take dual threat quarterbacks. In the 70s, people thought I was crazy when a quarterback started running, but now it's normal. Same goes for electric cars with longer ranges, plenty of charging stations across the country and faster charging times. Just about anyone can get on board, find out for yourself, learn how electric cars are normal at normal. Now, Dotcom were also brought to you by the Ringer Dotcom, where you can still read our excellent fantasy football draft guide.


If you if a lot of people I know, including myself, have their drafts on Monday and Tuesday to try to be as close as possible, check out our draft guide for all the great rankings. Check out the Ring of Fantasy Football show. They put up three last week. I think they have another three coming this week. And the our NFL show, we made some moves. I'm not going to assume that you're just going to have to go there.


You got Kevin Clark and nor Princi to usually on Sunday nights. And that's going to be the way it goes during the season. But then with a couple new additions, and I don't I'm not going to spoil it. You're going to have to wait for the announcement. I'm going to tell you on Tuesday. But keep an eye out for that. Check out the ring of Fantasy Football show as well. And then Ryan Rosillo. Who's going to be on in a second?


He's doing a lot of football stuff as well, and so am I. People have been asking when guess the Lions is coming back so soon? I am going to tape it Tuesday afternoon at four o'clock this week when you guessed the Lions week one.


We're going to do some NFL futures as well. We wanted to keep it as close to Thursday as we possibly could because who the hell knows about this covid stuff, especially this weekend when everybody's just out at the beach and doing whatever, like nothing's happened. And so God only knows what's going to happen in the next few days. Keep your fingers crossed that nothing bad. But in the meantime, football on Thursday, sound idea. And guess the Lions on on Tuesday will be up Tuesday night to try to play it right after Bucksey and and Lakers Rockets.


I'll have some some sort of podcast late that night. And then I guess the Lions will be part of it and then going forward. So I'll be on on Sunday nights and Russell and I are moving to Thursday nights. So this will be our last Sunday night with Rosillo kind of emotional. That's all. Coming up, we're going to talk about Janice's future. We're going to talk about Lakers, Rockets, Celtics, Raptors, you name it. We're talking about it first, our friends from Pearl Jam.


All right, four months ago, we're still in Iran here. Break it down, make a journey. Games was 30 years ago wondering how the hell we were going to fill 90 minutes. And now all of a sudden, it's Labor Day weekend. We have a really, really exciting couple playoffs in the second round. And we have the NFL coming. We're going to talk about the NFL today. The first thing I was going to talk about, I assume the Bucs are going to get swept today and we're going to have the whole Janice Milwaukee's future discussion.


Milwaukeeans goes out, Milwaukee avoids a sweep, kind of a heroic effort, gut check by them. Did you see anything in that game that makes you think we shouldn't be leading this podcast with the what the hell does Malky do? Conversation about Yanase. No, not at all. I think that's kind of the thing that's on everybody's mind, I think we should dive into like, what do you think about Bud? But I mean, to me, it's Doc Rivers theory one on one where he always said, I want the best players out there.


And sometimes when the guy like the best player Giannis goes down from Milwaukee, something, something different could happen. But Middleton was terrific. He was terrific. Hits a big shot. So you know, congrats to those guys. But I still think this is a Milwaukee big picture podcast before it is. Hey are they going to come back from down three?


So you could see Miami led up a little bit. They did not have the same alpha dog, crazy intensity, fourth quarter and even overtime that they usually had missed. A couple of shots, too. Let's let's start here and talk about Yanase, the player first, because as this thing snowballed last week. Listening to some of the TV shows, some of the pieces I try to stay away from social media, I saw a little bit of it.


But there seems to be a real misconception here with Yoni's, who he's supposed to be. I think people see him like a LeBron Durant. He's this guy who's going to be the focal point. And then I'll suddenly veered the other way because Richard Jefferson made that Pépin comment. And to me, he's just Shaq. And I said that last year. I said that the season this year, I said it again where I think the problem, because he's not a typical center that we grew up watching.


He's not Shaq, he's not Moses, he's not Hakeem. He's not all these guys. We don't think of them as center, but he really is a center. And as much as basketball has changed over the last seven years, and it's really hard to compare, you know, Kareem on the nineteen seventy two bucks versus the stuff we're talking about now, the reality is. Centers don't win titles unless they have that awesome second guy, the creator guy, and all you do is go back and look at Shaq 97, 98, 99 before Kobe became Kobe, where he's just getting annihilated in these playoff series, Utah, San Antonio, once all the way down the line to Moses, who was the best player in the league for five years, could not win the title until he actually landed an affiliate.


And Tony and Doc and all these guys, why don't we think of L.A. as a center? Why do you think people get thrown off by this?


Well, because I think there was a stretch in the league was going small that we didn't even think centers mattered in a really quick correction room, that it feels like centers are really important to a lot of these teams now. But we just don't see the way the game. We just don't have the game played that way. So even if we don't think of as center, which we don't because of his handle, because of his end to end all of these abilities, even if you were saying, hey, let's be a center, who's going to.


Is he going to post up? I mean, it just seems like nobody ever, ever would want to run that offense because you'd be costing yourselves attempts to run in threes. You know, one of the things I think is always kind of funny is when I think about Embiid and his post touches right we all want more Embiid post touches. We want him to get all these different touches and then the counter will be. We'll look at his post touches.


It's more than anybody in the league. Not that long ago Al Jefferson led the NBA in post touches and it's double wouldn't beat averages for a season so the game is played different. So you're right, we should look at his just numbers and where he scores from and all that stuff. But he doesn't in a way where we just started thinking that centers just weren't available. But your best point was the first one in that. These these playoff teams that survive have a guy who can get you a bucket in a bunch of different ways, like Durant could do a bunch of different things to LeBron, could do a bunch of different things to even Steph.


You can harden, you know, and you know, you know some of the hard shortcomings in the playoffs. But Giannis if it's not momentum where he breaks through the wall, that's kind of it. Right and it's hard to rely on. Like how many possessions have you seen in this series specifically where he brings it up. Defensive rebound, the wall is set up and then it's off to a guy to the left or right where it's now OK, you start the offensive now I'm going to try to figure out some way to get down here, like if it doesn't happen on the first action with him, it seems like it's a struggle.


Well, so that's why I feel like there is a fundamental flaw in how they approached his career and what he should be in Milwaukee.


Desire's capias there is talking about stretching him out. Got to shoot threes. You got you have to shoot the three. It's like, does he does he have to shoot three? Because the thing that I think makes him so special as a player and I really did think he was the best player in the league during the regular season, but we had many conversations about that doesn't matter in the playoffs. We you and I both. And Kawhi is the best play-off player.


And what it takes to win in the playoffs is just different. The regular season. I think what makes him special is just when he's within ten feet of the rim. And it's the same thing with young Shaq, you know, way back when we're just like, Jesus, how do you fucking stop this? You can't do it. Yeah, well, we didn't knows when he's going when he's ripping through the Nets and the Sixers, you're like, oh, my God, how do you stop this?


So to me, he's doing everybody a favor. If he's twenty five feet twenty feet from the basket, because now I can set up a I can set up the wall thing, I can force him to shoot jumpers, I can foul him. Is that a great free throw shooter. And then kind of everybody else stands around and watches him. And you know, if I had a do over for the bucks the last couple of years, it's a little like where the point LeBron was at after the 2011 finals for different reasons, where they Dallas was guarding him, you know, with Jason Terry brand, different points.


It was like LeBron, you're going to have to figure out how to make teams pay when they do that. With Giannis, it's that you have to figure out how to make things pay thing to me it's just how he should play. I don't want him twenty five feet from the basket. I want him in transition or I want him near the rim. And then the second piece would be he needs to be had that second guy because everybody actually won the title who doesn't have the skill to create their own shot really.


Which he, he doesn't, doesn't, but he's not like the Durant Luka type of guy. They need the second guy and they just don't have it. And we'll go into the organizational stuff later. But do you think it's still time to change how he plays or is it too late? Is this who he is? Because he's still great? He's though one of the best players in the league, but does he have to change to actually win in the playoffs?


This is where I get a little scared, because you remember when LeBron when they had those early losses, when they lost to Dallas, it was OK, LeBron has to go to post up camp. Like all of a sudden LeBron was supposed to be this post up player or they were supposed to trade Bosh for a point guard, you know, trade him for two other pieces because this isn't going to work. I mean, that stuff was real.


It was happening. And it was definitely real when Hibbert looked like a guy that was like a problem for the Miami Heat, which seems insane to would even say it. But back a million years. Right. That's actually a real conversation that happened. And first of all, point guard with LeBron is pointless, especially when you also have LeBron Wade. LeBron didn't need to post up and learn all this post up moves. He actually didn't really have any, even though he was catching into the post.


It was kind of like this freak out when he got to the post. But I don't know that he was ever that clean in those moves. So to say OK Giannis honesty's a change. All of these things. I think the first thing is for Giannis that I've noticed. I went back and looked at all three point attempts is that there is too many early three point attempts. I don't know why he would pull up in transition to take threes.


I know people are obsessed with the idea that bad shooters are supposed to take threes to keep the defense honest. I don't know. My counter to that would be why would you keep doing something you really bad at? In the first three games he took thirteen threes eleven of the thirteen and I was nice about it, I would say were early threes. So basically my cutoff was ten seconds or less on the shot clock is a late three and that's not even that late in Miami is delighted at it every time he's doing that.


So I would say ten even to those eleven early ones. I think it was with 14 seconds or more left in the shot clock and it doesn't hit any of them. So I would stop doing that. The transition thing when people were bringing up how many offensive fouls he has. I love that. I love that. And we saw this at the beginning, a game four. He was ready to go. So there's no like, hey, what's wrong with him that we've done with Chris Paul and some big spots we've done with James Harden big spots.


There's evidence you've been in this league long enough. I don't think with Giannis it has anything to do with his mindset. I loved his mindset and his attacking early in this game. It's just exhausting and we're going to get to the minute stuff here.


But whenever any of us are at home or the announcers more on the home team announcers get mad.


It's like drive to the hoop drivers who drive the hoop. Like, you know what?


It's impossible to just drive the hoop all game long. I don't care who you are because it's a. Exhausting, and that's why you see guys settle for threes every now and then, so well, and you need there's a predictability with them that they've had in the playoffs the last two years where, you know, I was talking to somebody who whose loves this stuff in the basketball community and he was just saying how much he enjoyed how Boston and Toronto play and how much action there is and how unpredictable it is, and just the coaching adjustments that have gone on in that series, which we'll talk about later.


But the unpredictability game to game, whereas with Milwaukee, it's kind of like it's a little like that heart and problem that we talked about when Dallas and Houston can fall into that four guys standing watching the fifth guy. And it was weird. It was it was kind of freeing to watch them without Yoni's today because they actually started playing basketball and guys are moving and guys were chipping in versus like just the and the specialists. And I think Jalen said made that point in the countdown today, that when you build a team of specialists around your main guy, this is the same problem LeBron was in ten years ago in Cleveland, right.


With him in the specialists and then in 2014, Miami, same thing. Once Wade started to slip. It's just him and the specialist. Same thing. Twenty eighteen in Cleveland. It's him and Korver and all these dudes who can only do the these these one things I might go with Yoni's would be how can we be more unpredictable. Can we post them up sometimes. Can we move them around. Can we not give the same look all the time.


And I think the post ups part of that, because if he's playing my team, if they're playing the Celtics in these finals and he's on the block, I'm the most nervous there because I feel like we have to double him. You know, I'm not saying you do it every time, but if you're mixing up and moving around and just, you know, turning him into this Swiss Army knife versus the way they use them, to me, that's his destiny as a basketball player.


I don't think we've hit the ceiling yet by any means. Do you know? I don't, because I really thought at the end of last year, during the regular season, I know we brought it up, you could start to see a light go off with him on his three point shooting. We're just starting to look a little bit better. And he put together like a couple of months in the game. Log there where you're going. Whoa, whoa.


Like this might be something. And for all the shit Ben Simmons takes for never, ever wanting to tempt those shots, and we have to be consistent in that. OK, well at least Giannis is trying to take some of these but I would mention specifically again in this Miami series, I don't know why you're taking him early because in Jeff Van Gundy even says I mean, forget what I say. He's like, I love it. He's like, I love it, keep doing it if I found Miami.


But the specialist thing is really good. It's also some of the Westbrook stuff. We talked about the past, where you spend the entire season getting out of one guy's way and then in the playoffs and you go, wait, now you're relying on me to hit like I'm not going to be like I'm used to only getting the ball once you've given up on the drive. Wait a minute. You actually want me to make a play off the dribble? You're sending me a pick.


What am I supposed to do? Yeah. Wait, why are you doing it?


So you play 80 games like that. And it's also my my struggle of what do I watch? Because I care about this stuff. I care about watching and coming up with stuff to talk about where Houston in their shortcomings you go. Is this a continuation of the biggest gap between regular season playoff basketball we've ever seen? But then Houston starts to put together some good games. You go you know, you just better off. I mean, some of these games and I'm taking notes and trying to break down.


I'll just look at the three point percentage and just go, who shot better from three? Oh, they did. OK, they won like some of these games. We don't need to spend a lot of time breaking down because the three point shot is so dominant in deciding what the hell happens.


And then do you hear this? Stan Van Gundy was basically like he had nothing else to offer. Here's just say, hey, man, it's a make a mistake. Boston made them the first two games that Toronto's making up. It's really that simple. It's like, yes, he's Semih, right? Yeah. I kind of hate that. It's that simple. And it's the same thing with the Miami thing. You're like, oh, they're up 20 on threes here.


OK, they're up twelve again on threes here. They're making all of their threes. Can I offer one thing that's not an anti honest thing though. Yeah. At least play. So for all of this playoff concern about regular season versus postseason bud, which I'll admit, I still have some of these reservations and it's not even like specific that, but it's about these three points. Spread them out, dominant teams going, you know, people just try harder in the playoffs.


So some of the stuff can get a little stagnant. And even though you like Middleton post Giannis I thought even though he had twenty two in the third quarter it was incredible. I thought there were possessions in the in the in the fourth where he went. Oh for six where I go. What are you asking him to do. Those were third like and he hit some shots in ot but those weren't easy now shots. Yeah. It was just like man you're not making it easy on this guy.


But here's the thing. Regular season offensive efficiency, so per 100 possessions versus playoff. Last year, they were one hundred and thirteen points per 100 possessions in the regular season, about one hundred and eleven in the playoffs, not necessarily huge drop off both for fourth in regular season, fourth in the playoffs. And it's also a playoff team for all those concerns we had that were destroying teams the first 10 of 11 games. And if they had won that double overtime game against Toronto, like, who knows?


I mean, this team was still, despite all the angst that we have, very close to playing for an NBA championship last year. OK, so pretty close this year. It's even closer. Regular season offensive efficiency, about one hundred and twelve points per one hundred in the playoffs, it's about one hundred and eleven. So you're like, what's the problem? The problem has been the defense. And I don't know that this has really brought up because it does look like they get stuck in a predictable and it's Giannis gets cuts off it passes Giannis gets through everybody Oh my God Great dunk He ends up a thirty again their defense.


From the regular season to the playoffs is about five points worse per 100 possessions, but against Miami, they go from the number one defense in the NBA, one hundred and two plus points per 100 possession to these four games bill. They're allowing one hundred and fifteen points per 100 possessions. That is the difference between best in the NBA to like bottom third. It's awful. And, well, that's they're chasing these guys around and it's freaking them out because Miami keeps moving and moving and moving.


And they're they're a little slow and they're a little unathletic, which is ironic because they have the best athlete in basketball, but my name is exposed to a lot of stuff. I'm pushing back on Yoni's offensively in the playoffs just because just like these two series, I'm just going to throw Toronto last year. He falls down to twenty three and thirteen, basically forty four point eight percent field goal, fifty eight percent free throw and it did feel like they figured out a little bit, at least had a solid down because in my opinion, for four more can hit their destiny.


You got to think like almost like with Shaq, with the Lakers where it's got to be between twenty eight, thirty five a game. I feel like four for them to realistically win with the team they have. Then you look at this series in the three games. I'm that kind of win today because it got hurt, but he was twenty three and thirteen again. Forty five percent field goal and fifty four percent from free throw. It's like that's just not good enough when when you're in like do or die series like that.


And that's why I feel like there's still a ceiling for him to go higher. And the question for me is.


Is it in Milwaukee and if it's not in Milwaukee, should they get rid of them now because we've seen this happen, you just you just did the sweep analysis here? Well, let's I don't think they're coming back, so that's OK. All right. Let me set this up. Greaney staff for you. I'm intrigued already.


Coming up after the break. I'm going to tell you what Milwaukee should actually do with the Onis right after this, not good enough. Now, here's one, Jimmy. What do Aaron Rodgers and Giannis have in common? They could be leaving the cheese state next.


All right. Let's take a break to talk about Fandor, you know, we've been doing some contest with them, some inventive, fun, creative contests like our Fareway rolling in the dough, which show house you can compete with them for all the majors, all that. Check that out if you like, playing fantasy. We're also teaming up with them this football season. We have something new. We have something I'm super excited about. It is the Free Ringer Mega contest, which you can play all season long on Fandor.


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So, Fandor, that mega contest. Come get some. OK, I want to I want to talk about whether they should trade, Yiannis. Or whether they should roll the dice and hope he stays. But first, I want to talk about the Bucks organization. OK, and how much we blame them for this because. The Bledsoe Brogdon screw up. Which I think everybody said on everybody's talked about, I actually don't feel like people understand how bad that was and it wasn't that hard and trade because it wasn't as sexy of a move and he didn't.


Brogden is never going to become what James Hardie was.


It was a two step mistake that's very reminiscent of what Philly did with Tobias Harris, where the trade was a mistake. All the assets they give up for a guy that they didn't even know really was going to fit with them, and then they doubled down by overpaying them and then it becomes unrecoverable for malarky. Bledsoe is playing really well for four months in the regular season, he was going to be a free agent coming up. And they said, fuck it, and they gave him an extension, I think, February, March of twenty nineteen, knowing that Brogdon was going to be an RFA.


So they pay him this big number and he sucks in the playoffs and it's like his new contract has even kicked in yet. And they're like, oh my God, the old buyer's remorse thing that this Bragdon RFA thing. So here's the thing. People always forget what the RFA you can do is just match the offer. It's like the guy's going to lead. Bledsoe could have left if they didn't take care of him. Brogdon has to get some offer from somebody else, and then Moyock has said where they match it so Indiana ends up being I think eighty five for four years.


And Milwaukee is looking like, all right, we have the short window with Yoni's, who has a chance to be a generational superstar, we're in we're heading into year two of a three year window. This is a major asset we have within Bragdon. This is potentially the third best player on our team and somebody that doesn't seem to be afraid and end of the game situations. We're going to get rid of it and we're going to get a non-literary pick from Indiana for this Bragdon thing.


It's indefensible, it's not it's not as indefensible as the hard trade was, but on the other hand, at least with the heart and trade they got with the pick that turned out to be Steven Adams from it, and they got Kevin Martin for a year. Walky got nothing, and I know people have talked about this, but I actually think it's kind of unconscionable that they did it that way. I didn't like it when they did it last summer.


I hate losing assets because I feel like Matchett worst case there. You can trade them or pat or put his salary together or something else. The guy, I think almost made the All-Star team last February. And my point is, when you have this short window, you can't ship out and then shipped out the cheap that just like, OK, shipped out in 2012 and 2013. And these owners always think to themselves, well, we have this awesome guy.


We're going to be able to contend every year. And it's like you can't fuck around. Do you have so many assets you can't just be like, oh, we're fine. You have to keep the assets figured out after, but keep the assets. Would you think of the Bragdon thing when it happened and what do you think now?


I did one of those weird deals where I kind of defer to the team in that Brogdon, who was an incredible success story, considering the Virginia part of it and being a second round pick. And we could talk about Rookie of the Year stuff, but I mean that whole class was was a mess, but he missed a lot of time and I think the fear there was in all the restricted free agent offers that are out there for anywhere halfway decent.


There's so massive because they're trying to scare the other team away, like being restricted. It's incredible, really, because it's like, yeah, all these teams have cap space. Never get to use it, you know, most of them all whiff and then you go, all right. Well, let's just absolutely overpay Malcolm Brogdon to scare Milwaukee off from matching it. So it's a great spot to be in. But I felt like Milwaukee probably was uncomfortable with his health situation and the fact he was only available for seven games the playoffs last year.


And who knows, like if they have him, it would have been better. And seeing Brogdon be one of the few guards who could actually break down the defense for Miami, you can see it being a glaring missed. So I'm not saying you're wrong. I just think you have to bring up the injury part of this when you were going to give him four years, 80 plus million, and the fact that the Bledsoe deal for like the going rate as some of these guys was a terrible so is like and again, I don't think it's as close to as bad as Harden because Harden, those guys could have done it for another year.


They could have kept him for another year and then figured it out later. And it wasn't like the package they got back was so overwhelming that it was like, oh, we have to do this now. And I've always loved Houston's quote at the time where they were like, well, if they hadn't done it now, we wouldn't have this to offer, would have been on the table a year from now, you know, like really the twelfth pick and like Jeremy Lamb.


Right. Really?


Well, you guys would have offer that. You're right on the indefensible scale. Harden's a ten. I still feel like this is a seven or eight and I just haven't seen from them. They spend money, but I don't even think they're a luxury Texas team this year. I think they're right on the fringe, but I don't know if they are just in general, like, you know, they end up with Korver, Marvin Williams and Connington and Wesley Matthews, Robin Lopez, Defense, Chenzhou.


But really. Milton, Brook, Lopez, Yoni's. And then Bledsoe, so you got three and a half guys you would really trust, you said tax, right? Yeah, because they're over the cap but they're not over the tax. They're not a good cause. No good. Well all right. So put yourself in Janice's shoes. All right. You're, you know, you're from Greece, maybe didn't grow up reading hoops, hype, rumors, stuff like that.


Maybe actually you might have maybe that a huge part of it, I don't know.


But if I was a superstar and I was a back to back MVP and my team wasn't spending everything they could to put the best possible team around me, I would hold that against them. Would you? Well, OK, we know LeBron would hate LeBron is always almost like obsessive about it, and you remember when he was with Miami and he was mad, they hadn't, like, rounded out the roster, the full allotment. And he said something about like practice once you're like, are you serious?


And it was like, hey, keep the pressure on one year deals with Cleveland and the option, keep the pressure on him, keep the pressure on him where it actually you could argue like, hey, that works against you.


I'm not again, maybe he's pissed, but when you try to figure out where Johnny's head is at and would he be the guy that gets so mad that he asks out and then you have to then have that conversation. If we were walking about wanting to trade him now, I think he's a little different in the sense that he didn't because he didn't grow up here. I don't think he has a few high school ties like some of the other players that have been lifelong friends, that eventually, once they get to the league and been around and like, hey, are you mad?


Like, yeah, I'm mad, too. And like, people love bitching about work. And then you just start saying, hey, let's do this. I don't know if Giannis is cut that way. I don't know, I don't think I hear the same stuff about him with other players. You because I don't think I'm wrong about this. I don't hear about him teaming up with other players unless you were to say Messi is his guy and that's why that Toronto rumor started up because that one piece that I read about, oh, this executive says he's gone and maybe it's Toronto and maybe it's Miami, there wasn't a ton of depth to it other than just connecting the dots that he has a relationship with Messi.


And I would I don't know. I mean, look, Messias have an unbelievable track record here. So do you trust him a little bit more than you would Milwaukee? But I also don't think Milwaukee, despite the Brogdon thing you bring up, has done a bad job. You pay Middleton the Bledsoe contracts. Not terrible. George Hill was a good signing. The Brook Lopez signing was. I don't like to Bledsoe Concho. I just don't think it's as egregious for somebody.


Look, I know he's been super disappointing there, but I think it gets back to would Yoni's be the type of guy that gets so mad that not only does he turn down the numbers, which we should get to at some point, too, because that's another conversation itself with the cap maybe change to fifty or whatever.


Well, here's the thing with the honest and we should talk about that one second. He's a different kind of cat, like he's one word agreement there. Yeah, I think he's more competitive than team up guy. I really do. There's a really good recent example of it. If you really read the stuff from the boycott and that day closely there in the locker room. They're dressing for the game at George Hill, asked to talk to the team and he's like, I don't want to play today and here are my reasons, Sterling Brown then says, I don't want to play either.


And at that point, the Bucs still could have played Yoni's comes in. And says we're all in that plane. We'll forfeit the game, and that leads to the three hour thing, and I'm not even positive most people know how important Janice was that day because he doesn't care. He doesn't he's not he's not like a self promoter like that. And he's not out there trying to spin stuff to different people or whatever, which makes me think, could this be the one guy that says, yeah, I don't care where I play, I just want to be happy, just can can I make the most money?


Milwaukee, where you guys spend money on my teammates and I don't care where I live. I wouldn't be shocked. But if the NBA has taught us anything in the last 15 years, nobody's allowed any team. I know we're going to wonder, like Reggie Miller, so Reggie Miller is a good example, right? We did book a basketball podcast about him. There's a great Reggie Miller story. He's in it. And it's the early 90s. And I don't think magic's retired yet.


And he's going to be a free agent. And Magic's lab or maybe Magic's retired and lobbying him to come to the Lakers, but they're playing basketball in L.A. Magic. So we got to come to L.A., got to come to L.A. and you can go and you can Google these stories about this. And Reggie Miller, who's who played at UCLA and in twenty 20 terms, would have been like, great, I'll play for the Lakers. This would be great for me.


But, you know, playing in Indiana and really meant something to him, it really meant something for him to start succeed and finish his career there. I don't know who the guys are in this generation who are going to care about the same way. Maybe they should and I don't even know, but Janice might be the one guy who does. It was funny because I was talking with somebody about actually I was on Cowherd show, we were talking about Kawhi and he was like, if I were to win three titles with three different teams, a short amount of time, you have to, like, put him a lot higher up in the greatest ever because nobody else has ever done that.


I go, well, look, to go greatest ever with Kawhi when it took a while, like I think was the greatest development story we've ever seen in the history of the NBA. There's maybe some other examples. I mean, Yoni's could be one of those guys, too. But you also have to remember the times like no one as good as Kawhi in the 80s or 90s would ever do that. Nobody would ever say, OK, I'm out of here, and then I'm going to go play to this other place when a title there.


And then I'm actually going to leave and go do this. So we don't have a great to really come up with that because this is all basically 10 years old since LeBron decided to go to Miami. Yeah. So I'm not comfortable enough saying, oh, he's definitely going to be like Reggie Miller because of the times now where Duncan could be the other example, but he doesn't have the Popovich.


Yeah. And then if you look at the extension that he's eligible for here because he's made the all NBA teams because he's the MVP. I want to get to some of these numbers here. This is good timing for it. Yeah, it was it was rumored to be around like five years in two fifty in the numbers. I mean, the annuals on these were just so ridiculous. It was I mean, we were north of like fifty six million in the last year, but as you know and I cap could go backwards.


So this will be the case for him to stay right. Where in free agency could he make even anything close to what he could make for Milwaukee.


Would people would if cap space goes backwards, what if there are different wrinkles, like he just wouldn't be able to make it and then. Yeah, and this is a memorandum. This isn't a mistake like some other people have done talking about like the NFL, like Deshaun Watson just got absolutely paid. Well, wait a minute. What about those pandemic pieces I was reading or the Mookie Betts one is my favorite, where one prominent national baseball writer was like, you know, he'd be lucky to get two hundred million now.


And you're like, why would you think that Mookie Betts at this age and being this good is going to get like it's not some of these people, whatever the economic hit is, they may not even know what it is yet. Right. But you go ahead and get that with basketball. The rules are just different because it's like, hey, I'm this player, what am I eligible for? And people aren't thinking about it now. Yeah, the last year of an original deal with if everything were normal, if all the projection were normal in escalating cap the last year of Dionysus deal in the fifth year, the extension would have been over fifty six million.


OK, now I think you would agree here from the stuff we're hearing, that the cap is probably going to stay flat at one oh nine one nine for the next couple of years. That could change. I don't know. At least that's the discussion that come up with some sort of gimmick to keep it around there, even if there's some chicanery. Right, because they don't want a dip and then a spike again, they don't want to warriors Kevin Durant thing like the feeling around the league is more of we don't whatever that was, we should have softened it.


The players you need to not want the softening. I don't blame the players union for not trusting those people. So now that we you left out the part on you left out the part.


Giannis signed one hundred million dollar extension. Right a few years ago. He's been underpaid as far as superstars goes the last two years he's I think he's been on the books for twenty five a year last year and this year, whereas you got guys like Chris Paul and Westbrook or make it forty.


So he has been in the league long enough though either though to like the Chris Paul numbers. I'm just saying he's never played for a real max yet. OK, so and this would be this would be his chance. A cap guy that I was talking to said two hundred twenty million is probably the likely extension for him because we're one of the other mistakes everybody makes. And I like this nerdy stuff because I think it's important is that they'll say, oh, you know, originally he was eligible for two fifty.


But the new team, it's only four years in one hundred eighty eight million. Yeah, but you can't leave out what the fifth year would be with the new team. And so the fifth year of the new team, even though it sounds like it's two hundred fifty million or in this case two hundred and twenty million versus one hundred and forty million. Oh my God, you can't leave that kind of money on the table. Guys have left it on the table.


And what he could also do is you could do a shorter term deal and decide to get to ten years of service and then he can makes all that money back up again. Anyway, I think it gets back to the original thing. Do you honestly think as much as you don't like the Brogdon trade, this front office is not one of these incompetent front offices that has made monumental mistakes, and it's his team that he can't he can't get like I don't think that he's been done wrong necessarily by this team.


I agree. If he's made the Brogdon thing, it's bad that I'll give you that. But it's not it's not like this continual. What the hell is wrong with these guys? Milwaukee Bucks organization, I think better than that. And I don't know enough about Giannis the personality to know would he get to the point. Would he, will he go home from Orlando furious and turning down an extension because he's like I can't win here. That's an answer I don't have.


I mean there's a reason why is so others on the team. There's a reason why his other brothers on the Lakers, one of them apparently can't play ever. Right. You know what I mean? Like all of this stuff is happening.


Why? I wanted I wanted a team like Toronto or Miami or Dallas to sign both of his brothers to. For your contracts this this summer as a preemptive Yonath enticement, how funny would that be if the heat were like we've seen both the Odyssey's brothers for two billion a year combined for your four year guaranteed contract, 16 million dollar investment, hoping to get Yoni's to come in there? I don't think he'll ask. The question for me is if you're Milwaukie.


Do you trade him a year early if you think he's going to leave and they'll know that better than anybody, but we've seen over and over again teams just they go down with the ship. Right. OK, see, so many signs Durant was going to leave that last year and they were like, well, fuck it, we'll try to win the title and then we'll guilt trip. Feministing didn't stay LeBron 2010. No, no. I'll figure out what I'm doing after the year he leaves Miami 12 14 with LeBron.


Same thing Kawhi with Toronto last year where it's this thing hanging over them the whole time. They figure he might leave, he leaves. When do we think the guy might leave. When he's actually like Oh my God what a surprise. He stayed. Usually the guy leaves. Well, when Paul George Day, that was a big surprise, but I think Paul George stayed because he didn't want to ruin the free agency party. So he's like, oh, these guys are throwing a party.


That's true, Paul George said. And then a year later, he went still kind of stuck out here.


That whole thing is still one of the stranger ones ever, because it was like, wait, he's not I thought this whole thing, like when you tell everybody you want out of Indy to go to the Lakers and then you get traded and then you're like, actually, I'm not going to go to the Lakers. And you had the chance to say, what? What can you be the market GM? I'm going to be some different GMs calling you a trade.


Oh, yes. Great. So I'm John Horse. Yet young, vibrant. Hey, it's Outbrain, how are you? Hey, what are you been up to? Oh, you still have a job, OK? Yeah, I'd say they're they they kept me. I don't know what happened. I went 047 with the biggest moves I could have made over the last two years. But I'm still working. Are you allowed to make trades? Are you OK?


Yeah. The owners are the owners. Definitely, you know, they have to sign off. They're active over there. I was taken and be honest, you know Yanis, you might lose them in a year. Any interest we got indeed under contract. You could have them for the next four years. You're getting a top five talent and a year from now, you could lose Yoni's for nothing. What do you think? A bid for Yoni's and interest.


Y'all go down with the ship on that one. I really would. You go down, I will be honest. Yeah, yeah, I got to say, hey, look, look, I tell you what, I've always loved Abby and I've loved him, super talented guy. I could kind of see it as a fit. You know, we have the shooters around him, you know, so it's a little different deduplication you have there. But, you know, what I don't love is that every time he's home, he's home early in the playoffs.


He's just motherfucking front office with tweets.


And I'd rather not have that. I'd rather not have an employee during the playoffs basically saying I don't know how to do my job. So at least with Giannis I'm not going to get those so I'm going to go ahead and pass on that.


Wait wait don't hang up, don't hang up any interest in Ben Simmons any. Bensimon, something else I'll throw in. What do you want, Tibo? Pensive as a table, their second round picks, but I traded all that.


Yeah, you don't have any the Simmons for testing. Simmons is under contract.


Yeah, you can have him for five years. Can I call you back? Come back. Talk to your owners. Yeah, call me back. OK, hold on. Your phone's ringing. Exactly. Because see what else is out there. It's a John are. So how are you. It's it's James Jones of the Phoenix Suns. James, how are you doing? We're looking great. I don't know if you saw Ayton, but he was, he came back from the suspension.


He's twenty twelve guy blocking shots looked awesome. How old is he. He's good for thirty year old right now. He's he's twenty two. We have his birth certificate. Um I was thinking I don't know what you're doing about Yoni's but you know maybe Ayten as far as the building block for something we'll throw an expiring contract and we'll do three unprotected first and maybe a pick swap something a little bit like the Paul George deal. And we'll get Yoni's, we'll put him with Booker.


Everybody's happy people. Athletes love playing in Phoenix. Any interest there? Well, I think Booker's going to try to bail on you guys, so I'll take your place. Yeah, what do you mean? No, actually Yoni's in probably the West, you know, even in the West would be good enough to probably get the playoffs, at least in the back in the playoffs. So I don't know how good those picks would be. Maybe Booker would then be more excited if you are just going to stay there.


But I don't know this this New York Knicks thing, by the way, this is an aside, I'm no longer horse. This whole it's not even a secret, but the whole Knicks just hey, let's just get this entire staff to just go after all the Kentucky connection. Guys, I'd like to talk about that in a second.


I have a phone call for you. All right. Oh, you're not a terrible offer. My phone is somebody somebody calling somebody else's call. And Sam Wheeler dealer. I'm like, I have two more. I've got Ange on the line. And you're like, oh, my God, Ange is calling.


Hey, John Hawkes, how are you? It's Bob Myers. Bob Ebed, the best GM in the NBA. How are you, Bob? So I couldn't help but notice you only have a year left with the honest and you might leave and I don't know, I, I think I could put together a pretty enticing package with the second pick in this draft. We have Minnesota's top three protected pick next year. We would need a contract to match up with Yoni's.


I was thinking wigan's, but if you want it, I wasn't thinking wigan's. I was thinking wigan's. I figured you'd say that. So, look, Draymond is on the table. And if you want to talk about Draymond, the number two, pick our Minnesota pick next year and two on protected first from us. We're willing to have that conversation right now. I love Draymond, I love his effort. The idea that he would be like a number one offensive option or a number two Khris Middleton, I don't like him as much in an offense without those guys running around in the backcourt.


This draft stinks and yeah, that's a no, that's a hard no.


That's all that. Oh that. There's somebody else on the phone. It's Pat Riley. Pat, great series. Really great. Thanks, man. You know, it's two great teams. So listen, if we don't make the finals, I really want to talk about Iran's possible trade with you. Bam Adebayo, who you just saw, is just an incredible player. And good night for Blair and I put here on the table as well, the best 20 year old player in the league.


Hero and bam, yeah, no bams more than a role player that's trying to be the GM there that would like it's kind of like when you're trying to make my offer, I get it. No, no.


But when the guy shows up like a really nice piece of porn stars, he's like, oh man, mahogany. He's like mahogany price. Mahogany is actually gone down in the last six months.


And like, the guy with the chest is like really mahogany prices are down like, yeah, now you've got me thrown Duncan Robinson, we got a deal. Bam, hero and Duncan Robinson. Yeah, and you got Jimmy Dragic and Indianness. Now, I would have to the problem with this whole exercise, much as I know you love it. I got to know that, Janice, like, I got to be less than 50 percent, because if I'm fifty one percent staying, it's a hard no to all of this stuff.


Here's the here's the right answer. You keep you keep on. Yeah, but. Mid middle of the season, near the trade deadline. You're you're basically you become a fortune teller psychic. You're reading the tea leaves day after day, you're trying to find as much information as possible. Would you hire the FBI? Would you hire a spy to follow him around? No, I cannot, because I think he's I just think he's a genuine guy.


He's one of my favorite athletes. I love this guy. And I really do think you could guilt trip him into thinking maybe he should stay. It's been like, you know, I've been telling you or telling you I'm leaving for all. Yeah. Or being honest. You're right. For all the mellow stuff, it's a great debate. Like, who is better? LeBron letting you think you had a chance of a last minute and then he leaves like he did to Cleveland and like he did in Miami, and he can do whatever the hell he wants.


That's the whole point of free agency. I shouldn't be criticizing these guys, even though I get when you're emotionally attached to the whole thing, you're not rational about it. All right. We don't need to go over that morality lesson. But Melo just straight up said to Denver now, it sucked like I talked to George Carlin, his pod, where it was like what you had to deal with every day, going to the arena and, you know, ask the same questions.


It's like, look, he still doesn't want to play here, moving on. But Melo told them, I'm out of here. Right. And they got something. So what you'd have to hope if your horse is like, can you please tell me?


And I know there's Paul and Chris Paul did the same thing in the world. Right. And in the moment, it feels like it's just way worse because you're messing with the team in the Anthony Davis thing at times was like, man, this is kind of ugly, but it's a hell of a lot better as an organization organization, surviving, losing one of these these players. It's maybe the best player or a top five player at the time. It's a lot better for him to kind of sabotage your season, but at least the longevity of the team.


So that's what you get to have. You've got to hope that you're close enough with horse, close enough with Alex, the agent on this, and to be able to pull this off, I think if you're trading him because because you said something that I think is important to talk about is that let's see how the season goes. And then you could trading before the deadline, like if you're getting the tea leaves and you're thinking this guy is going to be out of here, I got to get something for him.


People would say, well, you're not going to get as much before the deadline as you would have had before the season. I don't really buy that. I don't think that's always true, because then you got to trust your agent contacts to go. If I'm trading him to somewhere that he wants to go, then now I'm pretending as if I'm not trading a guy that's an expiring I'm not trading somebody who's just a rental. I'm trading somebody that you now will be able to resign and have control of.


And he's already going to be in your uniform. So you need to give me real assets for a price here, even though they would counter that and say, oh, that's bullshit, he's leaving so we can do it this way. That's what you have to do. If you're the GM, that be the number one thing you have to do going into next year, because I don't think I would want to change its answer. The answer's no, because you can't really trade him until you know you can't.


I got two more phone calls for him, but you can hang up. Whenever you want, I need one's Isaiah Thomas, I'm probably going to stay on. No, he's not running a team. Hey, John, it's Joe Dumars, I'm helping out Vivec in the king's. I don't know if he realized I didn't, so it's a fucking shitstorm here, I don't know. I don't know if you do, but like, they could have had DOGIT.


They took Marvin Bagley. I saw them. Were these guys Thickett? So I'm just, you know, and they paid Buddy Hield and he's unhappy and, you know, it's it's a fucking shit show. But, you know, even though it makes no sense for us to trade for Yoni's because there's no way he's going to stay in Sacramento, we're still thinking, what about Bagley and and Buddy Hield and three of our protected first draft picks? All right.


Now you can hang up. Yeah, I'm just going to hang up, OK? I can't trade for Bagley. I can't trade for Bagley until Bagley to me is. He's he's a bad trade asset in that you may like him if you're another team, but you can't do it. But if you're Sacramento, you can't just give him away because of what you've put into it. And you'd like to see him play a bunch. Like there's still a version of the Bagley story has has a nice run.


You know, he just he just isn't healthy. Would you agree, like he's had some moments where you go, oh, this might this actually could work. I mean, it's haunted by the Donchak thing, but I'm a bad person. Ask because I genuinely enjoy Baguley. I just think that it's a cat. That was a catastrophic draft decision. I mean, arguably the worst of the decade. Yeah. But I don't know that there's many guys higher on Bagley than you.


Maybe I like his game. I just can't believe they took a look at that judge. I just don't know why you have scouts. But, you know, the boy talk to people about this. There's something weird, something weird with Vlada and Luka. And it would be a great investigative story for somebody. But, you know, Vlada, Serbian Donchak, what country? See, from his he's even he's Slovenian. You don't like the Ukraine.


Just like I try to give that to Kilbane. There's something weird with like looka looka threw water on that. I mean, I'm sorry, Vlad. I threw water on that whole thing with them. And now that he's gone, I think the Vivec and his people are now putting out the. We want to take a look at the whole time Vlad told us, blah, blah, blah. But there's something that doesn't add up and that would be a great investigative story for somebody.


All right. So Joe Dumars, you hung up on him. I can't remember who the other person was who was going to call. Not Danny Ainge, Danny and Jason Collins, he doesn't want it to get out that they call. I can't remember. What would you do, though? So are we on the same page? Like you just for this is fun is a fun exercise.


But you. I know you get mad at GMES, you I remember you did that, no balls allowed trade deadline Collum years ago, the no bombs association.


Yeah, the No. So everyone's afraid to take on money. You're afraid to take on money. And you basically call that like the entire industry for never wanting to do anything. Yeah. You weren't wrong in that. Hey, what are you going to do with this guy that's a free agent? Well, he's going to be really expensive. He's not worth it. Well, we're just going to sign him to keep the asset, OK? Hey, let's do this trade.


Well, we draft and we still kind of like him. So, you know, we like our guys better than you, like our guys and vice versa and all this stuff. So there's always kind of this default to just keeping it as is. But it's just very, very hard to go. I'm going to pull the trigger on trading one of the three best players, and I'm not going to call you on the best player in the world anymore.


I caught myself earlier this week going, why do I keep saying he's better than Kawhi? Because he's just not he's just not better than Kawhi likes best regular season player in the world. Yeah, but wouldn't you rather I mean, is there any hesitation for you in a playoff game game seven?


Quiring, we've talked about this before.


I'd rather have LeBron to. And that that's when people get confused with the MVP. And I think, well, I voted for LeBron because he's it's like, well, that's not that's not what the award is. The word is for who's the best player in the regular season. I'm glad you said that because it's happens with the Heisman, too. Like Deshaun Watson has this unbelievable run. And then you're like, how did he not win the Heisman?


You go, well, wow, you understand how they vote on this.


It's not who is on the best team that won a title, because then if you did that, then the only person that would ever win an MVP would be whoever won the title. And I don't really think I think it's OK that the award isn't that. Well, the thing is, they should have a playoff MVP and that's where they really like the finals MVP. Yeah, but nobody would ever win that other than the finals MVP. So it's fine.


The playoffs MVP is not necessarily always the finals MVP because I did all the work on this and went through and tried to figure it out. Everybody since nineteen fifty five. And this year's winner was the finals MVP. And I think, you know, especially like I take twenty seven for an example.


There's no record that Duncan was the best player in the most important team that season, he didn't win the MVP. He was in the finals MVP, but we were there and we had the stats. But more importantly, we fucking watched it. And if you had the playoffs MVP, who's like who is the playoffs MVP? It was Tim Duncan. And I think they should have that. And it's fun to go back and look at some of the stuff.


And there's good arguments, too, like if you were going to say who is the 12 15 playoff MVP the year the the words beat the Cavs. I would say it was LeBron, even though the team didn't win, I mean, just all the work that he did to bring them that close to the title, I would say LeBron was the playoffs MVP and I think that would be cool to commemorate. Maybe you're right, but I don't think people would vote that way because I keep getting back to college football, but literally every year whoever won the title on one of these teams, we'd start with.


This could happen with Vince Young. Texas wins this game that maybe maybe it's the greatest college football game ever against USC. And they got the wrong guy, won the Heisman.


You got Dedi for that. So then someone else is on the phone for you a. Well, hold on, we're going to take a break. He's he's on hold, he got another call. We're taking one quick break.


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All right, this guy has his assistant just patching through its Mark Cuban. Hey, John, how are you? It's Mark Cuban. Did you see some of those poison gas games this year, the awesome Disney, you know, he's really good. He's younger than yachties. Don't look this up. But, you know, you think like everyone says, Yoni's is a unicorn. I got to be honest. Like, poor Zink's is just as unicorn.


And you could argue like playing with Loukia, like he really needs his own team. And, you know, if you want to talk trade, you know, the honest person guys will throw in some picks and interest. Janice's ankle thing bummed me out, but. At least it's not knee issues left and right, so we're definitely interested. Yeah, yeah, we're going to go ahead and pass on that. Do you think what Cuban calls these people when he talks trades?


Do you think he's like the kind of the way he is in real life or he's always like on the aggression is on the aggressive where just like, well, no, you don't understand. But he has a way of putting people on the defensive when he's talking to them. And I wonder if he does that with trades.


So the easy answer is yes. There's no way he's any different. But I don't know what level like owners call each other and owners will do stuff like I remember working with Steve Phillips when he was the GM, the Mets. It was after we do this baseball radio show. There's a long time ago. So I was like, what would you do? Like give me a scouting report on other GMs and how you would do deals in baseball because.


Well, I knew if. There was like a really influential, kind of malleable, impressionable owner, and the GM was getting in the way of my trade, I go to my owner and say, hey, call their owner and offer him this, because the GM saying no, but it's like a rich guy thing. Yeah, you can talk him into his new money. He's just bought the team. I can't get through the GM because GM smart, but get the owner to think this this deal's awesome that he used to have this other thing, Jim.


Jim Bowden, who used to run the Reds, remember, that was a while ago. He's doing a lot of media stuff. He was like, Jim would call you in the middle of the night, be like, I have the trade that's going to win you the analysts. Are you ready, Steve? Are you ready for this? It's unbelievable. And then he would offer just dog shit and he's like, are you kidding? So I do think that.


Whatever level of Cubans, you know, whatever level of of actually part of the process, I can't imagine it being any different than the personality that is the personality that we see every minute we've ever seen him on TV. I got to say, I'm good at trades in my fantasy drafts. I'm not saying good at winning them. I'm just good at. What do you do people. What's your approach? So I'll email or call in. I'm in my email keeper league in my fantasy football league.


I mean, I just kind of stay in contact with people. I think that's what the good GMs do feel like. Hey, we haven't made our annual trade this year, but I think some people, the people that aren't good in it, I think we'll call like, you know, John Horse to be like, hey, what's the deal with Brook Lopez? You think they're like they immediately tip off who they care about. I like more of like to go back and forth, feel somebody out.


We should do this. It'll be fun. We'll mix it up. And I have a feeling that the best GMs probably do it that right. They just check in with different teams, the checking out and the key is not checking in at the time where you need to check in and check in when people don't think you're going to check in. Because even true, I'll admit there have been times where if I ask somebody about the draft in October and then they end up with some pick that they didn't think they were going to get, I'll have a better idea of.


Oh, wait.


I actually think this team likes this guy and they were forthcoming and telling me about it because and I think the same things happen with GM like, hey, what's going on with, you know, just trying to think, like, I don't know, I'm trying to use somebody like a little off the radar, like, hey, what's going on with Gary Trent?


You know, and it wouldn't even be a trade, but then you could maybe get some vibe from, like a Neil O'Shay. Neal's really good. So I don't know.


I'm just using a dumb example here where if the GM or say, you know, he's coming along, but, man, he's going to have like a high price and then you just start gathering all this information with all these constant conversations where you go, does that team like their guy or does that team?


But I do think that the league is so much smarter. It used to it used to feel like a third of the league. You just picked these guys off. So really what you have to do now is wait around for a new owner to screw up in the first two years like they all do. It's like it's a law. And that's kind of what happens to vultures. Just start just swinging around the new owners going, hey, let's go get his players because he doesn't know what he's doing yet.


Yeah, I had a person who runs a team told me once I only need twenty five percent of the guys to be bad. So it's like seven, seven or eight, I don't know, it's going to rain anymore, but as long as there's seven, well, then you think like, oh, these teams that get smarter and then you see Sacramento they hired to do passes and advisor. It's like, well, how's that going to go?


Joe had a really good run there for a very long time and then it went at one point he was arguably like doing it better than anybody else. And then when I said that, I swear I jinxed him from that point on, it was atrocious. It was like he was two different people.


I actually did a whole thing on my car near the end of his reign about how there were two Jodo bars and what got really awesome.


That's just like he was he was the all time feast or famine GM, right. It was either Charlie Villanueva or Tayshaun Prince. And it was there was no in the middle Jodo Marcey. I mean, what he saw and Ben Wallace and stuff like that. I think another problem with owners that I was hear over and over again is they become enamored by the former players. You just like being around them totally, you know, and and you have somebody like that, Jerry West is a good example because he's Jerry West, but to just have that guy in meetings and stuff, they're just their fans like we are, you know?


And the reality is you're probably better off with some nerd running your basketball team because they're going to use numbers and look at things differently. We have we have some other stuff to cover. I think we I think we hit all the honest angles. The only thing we didn't hit last week on this podcast, I told you Miami was going to win the series. I'm usually wrong. I'm just I want to take a victory lap. And you should.


You should. I will. You picked him. I got off of it because I was like, all right, now I'm not going to do it to you in a bit.


Well, no, I don't think you were doing a bit. I knew you believe it. I knew you beat it. But I felt like then all of a sudden it was like, wait a minute, I thought I had this unique thing where I'm going, I think I'm going to take Miami. And then it felt like, wait a minute, now everybody's doing it. I was like, all right, now I'm back in Milwaukee and I wish I hadn't changed so well.


My question is thrown away today because I think today was understandable, especially when Yiannis went out there on Save the Third Best odds to win the title now. I got to say, like, I think I like their team as much as the Clippers at this point because and we talk about the Clippers really quickly, but yesterday, what happened in the Clippers? You and I were texting about it earlier today. It was so predictable. They were awesome in game one.


Huge favorites in game two. And I'm looking at it going, I don't trust this team after they play a great game. This is this is when they're like they're they're carrying themselves like their seven time champs and they fucking sucked in the game. They had no energy and intensity. Denver Yokich, a score, I think, what? Forty four points combined in the first first half. Yeah. And it's just like they do shit. I remember like the late 80s Celltex when that when the big three started to get old and they would just have these games were like, yeah, we're the Celtics, we're not trying to play.


You know, the Clippers haven't won anything yet and they've done this all season where they win these little battles and then they take a break for a week. And I really feel like at some point that's going to bite them in Miami, I think is different. And I'm a throw away again today. I think today was a fluke. Miami's just coming and coming. They're tough. They go hard. They know who they are. They always have shooters out there.


There's always action. It's hard to shut them down because there's no like one great guy. And with the Clippers, I don't think you can win the title with the on off switch. That's as egregious as the one they have. What do you think?


I talked about their arrogance and it looks bad. It looks bad in the podcast title. And look, we all understand the business. Sometimes you try to, you know, really throw something out there. It's like the Clippers arrogance was the title of a podcast. I'd done good title while I support it. Right. Because you're like, oh, this. And it made it seem like I was really knocking them. But it is an observation that for a group that's never done anything collectively, they carry themselves all year long, like, OK, we're a year three or four of winning championships, so we're just going to coast because we know who we are.


And it's like you actually don't I mean, you just got Beverley back again, which is terrific. And for their lack of energy, which we saw in the Dallas game, and Van Gundy pointed it out, it was actually incredible as they came back to close out Dallas, where you could see, like they probably had a meeting about their lack of energy. And then it was one of those from the minute the game jump ball, every everybody was amped up, you know, like, OK, all right, here we go.


You got your energy back. I do love when the announcer with a minute left and team's down ten. It's like I do not like their body language right now. Like you think so now. Ten minute left. They lost, like most people's body language at that point is is not great. Rare. Rare is the team that still really fired up and excited down ten.


I just feel like you are who you are. And we have a pretty big sample size now that. That team has an on off switch, that's just a fact. Paul George had a moment. I thought maybe it's the third or beginning of the fourth where he drove hard in. And it was one of the I'm so sick of seeing guys drive to the hoop for wide open layups and kick it out to a marginal corner, three point shooter just because that's what the game is now.


They're the three point shot is too easy now. But there's also too many guys just in the flow of an offense. You know, just take the layup like now we like that.


We like to corner five out space. It zing driving kick driving kick. You're like or you had the wide open layup and Paul George collapses Paul George when it Jokic I think and he finished over him and it was a reminder of how amazing Paul George is with his physical talents. But I think even the defense is like wait a minute, he took the layup and didn't kick it out. Like That's weird, we weren't even ready for this. So I thought, you know, when he hit that three, they were getting close.


They're going to bring this thing back. But yeah, the Clippers. But then who do you like? You like it? Who else do you like? Well, it's my point other than the Clippers now. But my point is this is one of those weird years like last year was where once KD got hurt, last year it was wide open and you just don't fucking know. And whoever makes in threes, it makes big plays and wins like some crazy swing game could actually win the title this year.


And I think. On paper, it's like, wow, Miami could actually win the title. That's crazy. Look at their team, like Jimmy Butler's their best player, like Jimmy Butler. But that's not the typical best player in a title team guy, but the totality of what they're doing and how well coached they are and how malleable they are, I think makes them a real threat. And I look at the Lakers. I just hate their supporting cast and we're taping this right now.


If we both think the Lakers are going to win tonight, we'll talk about that series the next time we talk. But if Houston beat them tonight, then we're going to have to redo this part. Put that at the top. The way he still would beat them is because they're four through 12 guys are just really shaky. When you look at the Celtics, that's like the Celtics for one. Play with me at three, nothing. And now a reeling.


We'll talk about them in a second. Miami, this team that was this adorable roster that now has a real chance then the Clippers, who still don't know who they are, like, why could it Miami win it? It still seems weird, but you're not wrong, I think when you look at the winning percentage in a normal season, there are like forty nine wins. That's that's crazy. Like, that team's going to win a title. But when you watch Duncan Robinson in the way they use him, Dragic reminding everybody what he's capable of.


Bam's. And utility, I don't know if that's the right word, all the different things that you can do in these centers. It's all been Wallasey.


He's a little bit Wallasey, but it's more because Ben Wallace could score four points and do nothing. And by the way, like the defensive assignments, Obam the Yonnet stop. Or maybe he's going to be. That's not been a story in this whatsoever. Is Jae Crowder, for the most part against him. But hero, there's moments where Milwaukee it's like, where are you guys? And I even I even felt like early on, even though it was the Pacers, Miami came out more ready from their first round matchup than Milwaukee did against Orlando.


And there's simple things were all noticed.


Just a pass to the left or right off the dribble, bringing the ball half court pass left the right to start your offense and it Miami's jumping out or the passing lanes and you go, do you guys realize that their way, their level of intensity, their dog right now is way beyond what there was even in Game four where Butler almost stole the inbound pass on one of those Middleton possessions. And you go, how the hell could you be this lax about an inbound as you're facing elimination right now?


And I think it led to the ginzo missed free throw where they tied it instead of winning it regulation. And I'm watching that going. Miami keeps doing stuff like this to you and you don't do it here. It's terrific. Duncan's terrific. Dragic is really good. Olynyk is a funny man totally. But would you agree that there's this butler love fest that is kind of funny in that now he's taken on this like Western desperado role where he's the biggest bad ass in the league and people are like, like I like it.


But the idea that it's getting dangerously close to people been sleeping on him and I go, no, I think Butler's always been about where you think he should have been.


Well, a couple of things on that. I like Gary Washburn. I signed the hoops type rumors saying he had a tweet about about what was that? What was that wallet Julius had in Pulp Fiction battle with his wallet, the the bad ass motherfucker, whatever that as well. It was like that's Jimmy Butler as well, because he kind of carries himself like jewels. Yeah. But I think Iguodala said something when I had I did a podcast with him on Thursday, and you could tell how confident was about Miami.


But we were talking about Jimmy Butler and I was joking to him about the Boston guys, because Jimmy always has a chip on his shoulder. He's always looking for some slight that then he could. You know, take out against whatever team he's playing, and I was joking that the Boston, if they ended up playing the next round the whole time, they should just be buttering up Jimmy. Tatum and Brown talk about what a great player is such an honor to go against somebody who's done all the things he's done.


It's like, no, you can't do that because Jimmy would get mad because you would think you're pandering to. And I just think that's the way the guy carries himself. He's he has a chip on his shoulder. He's only meant to play with certain types of guys. I thought the way he moved his way out, I mean, I still think it was kind of disgraceful the way he did the Minnesota thing. But now we're watching him in Miami with people who think like him and compete like him.


And it's like it kind of makes sense that Towns and Wiggins, where we're just like we're torture for him day after day to play with those guys where he he must have been just going nuts. And now he's with these dudes, heroes. A 20 year old bad ass, Duncan Robinson has worked his ass off to get where he is. Crowder and egg with our awesome competitive dudes. Adebayo Same thing. You go down the line. Even Oleynik, who in a Game seven against the Wizards when he was on the Celtics, was the best player on the court.


All of those guys are ballers and I think that's all he ever wanted and that, you know, if we want to go dig deeper, maybe that's why he left Philly, because he didn't feel like those guys were like that. He wanted to play with ballers. That's what he was. I had his side and the Chicago thing. He was a better player than rows and rows came back and Rozier wasn't really ready to give him the team in management mess with with Jimmy totally took his side.


Yeah, I completely agreed when Jimmy lost it on Towns and Wiggins. He's right. He's not wrong about those guys. I didn't love all of it. I didn't love how calculated it was. It was super, super calculated. But he got his way. And then what you saw with Philly is, you know, you need a dude that is not afraid of anybody. You really do. That's why Matt Barnes kept getting contracts. You know, with all the Draymond stuff, Golden State needs Draymond personality even that Pete Golden State team because Steph is laid back, KD super laid back.


I mean think how laid back three of those players are in Klay, Katie and Steph and you need Draymond as much as you can drive you crazy at times.


Ready to go with any insight as to who's smart stone. Where's all those guys. But same thing carries himself like he's the best guy on the court.


So the heat have this collection like Jae Crowder. You're right, all of those guys. Well Dragic is another one who's been a bad ass his whole career and has just had trouble staying healthy, but has always been a guy you could rely on. And in big games I now the Philly thing. There's also the talk that he wasn't going to get that extra year, so he's like, all right, I'm out of here. Like, I'm not I'm not sticking around for this.


But I mean, if there were ever two guys that needed a bad ass and not Tobias Harris, it's the Sixers.


We still don't know the full story. And I feel like it's going to come out like a year from now.


Or maybe it'll come out of Miami, makes the finals and she's probably tweeting it out this week. Read Oral History, Jimmy Butler, Philly, a thread. I don't know if it was they insulted him money wise or really just did rally stuff or both. Because the thing with Riley is. You know, and people have done a really good job talking about this and on my podcast on Thursday talked about it like they have a specific type of culture that's almost like the Ravens and football.


They go for certain guys. They like certain personality archetypes. And Butler is a Miami Heat guy. And I don't it doesn't make sense to be like, oh, what's a Miami Heat guy? Well, we know what it is. It dates back to the 90s. The guys that really goes after again, he wants tough guys who are going to be there in big games, who are team guys, but ultimately our fucking Alphas. And he goes after that.


That's why he wanted Wade in twenty three. He thought Wade could be an alpha. That's why, you know, Udonis Haslem was there for one hundred years, like those just type guys you want. So Butler and Riley must have just clicked in some fucking weird alpha dog way and Riley must be able to sense it. Like the way bears can sense fear. He must be able to smell alpha dog this when he beats people, he's like, Oh, I smell your alpha.


Here's a five year deal. Please come play for me. I don't know that I could follow up any of that with any soldier. Thank you. That's the end of the segment for that. All right, great. All right. Let's take a quick break, then we'll talk about Toronto, Boston.


Let's talk about Bacardi Spiced rum for a second.


You know, it's a three day weekend festive. People are out there mixing drinks, hopefully social distancing, having some cocktails if you're looking to spice things up. And the holiday on Monday, if you're listening to this, you're looking to spice it up a little bit. Check out Bacardi Spiced Rum because it's a new take on your favorite classes. I mean, I'm sure everyone goes to a rum and coke stage at some point. Fun way to spruce that up.


How about the spicy mojito, though? Let's talk about that. I've I've gotten into Marquitos, I'm going to say probably 15 years ago, and then I saw the Miami Vice movie with Colin Farrell and if you watch that movie, you don't want to have a meeting after. I don't you might not have a pulse. We even had Colin Farrell on this podcast. We talked about it with them. This spicy mojito is really interesting because you're a little spicy, a little sweet in there.


Well, why not get the old Bacardi spiced rum in there? You impress your friends, put a lot of ice in it. Nice big cup. You get some mint. So when I'm telling you, Bacardi, do what moves, you drink responsibly. Bacardi USA, Coral Gables, Florida. Rum with natural flavors and spices. Thirty five percent alcohol by volume.


OK, so Toronto and Boston, Boston. I thought they were going to sweep. I thought they're going to win in five. This is such a fascinating basketball series. It's now two two, the Celtics are reeling. They took a huge confidence that it was the first time they have looked tentative in the bubble. They couldn't make anything. They were playing. They just got knocked out of their comfort zone. They're playing too small. And Toronto has just figured out all these things.


It took them three games, but they finally figured out we should crash the offensive boards. That's a weakness for the Celtics. They figured out some cool stuff with their guards where it's like, oh, when we do the pick and roll for VanVleet or Lowry instead of setting it the three point line Let's move it back We'll set it 40 feet from the basket. So now they have a head of steam and they could do some stuff they figured out Fuck it we can't take Lowry VanVleet out We can't beat Boston otherwise we're just going to have to ride these guys into the ground the second half.


There's always stoppages, there's always like some five minute review and we have to cheat it. We literally can't take these guys out. Boston didn't make the adjustments but the question I had for you. Just as a Celtics fan, I'm asking because I'm nervous there's that some Nick Anderson for free throws a game one ninety five finals potential with that last second shot, just completely flipping a team. Right. Like in the Celltex would be Orlando in that situation where the confidence hit from something freaky like that.


And all of a sudden you kind of lose your identity and you went from, oh my God, we're Kruzan, we're the best here. We're a better team to oh my God, we might blow this and you start playing differently and you're like, oh, shit, now we have to beat this team five times and stuff starts going in your head. That was what I saw from them in game four. I don't want to overreact too much, but that was a really tentative, kind of discombobulated Celtics performance.


I'm really concerned. You should be concerned, but first of all, Faurot would be a lot weirder than Tutut because Torontos that good, it would have just been weird, like they're going to be they've been them being up three. But think about Toronto's offense, those half court numbers and the transition stuff that we talked about in the past and where Boston won game one. And we both were like, I didn't even look that great. Then when you looked at the numbers per one hundred afterwards, their offense wasn't that great.


They weren't doing a lot of open looks. The defense was that good SIOC and was totally missing in action. Like a nonentities getting crushed by Barkley and Shaq on the TNT show.


He was really bad the first three. He was good. He was I don't to say he was great yesterday, but he was bad. Oh, he wasn't. Because the shooting numbers, he had production, but the efficiency of it wasn't very good at all because he's still missing a lot of shots. But if you want to make it about Nick Anderson, I mean, look, Nick Anderson, you're the one guy the spotlight's on you. You're missing this free throws.


Anybody that's ever miss free throws, you could start to, like, really start thinking about it. That's why you have teammates. You're supposed to rely on other people. Jalen stunk in game four. So was it was Jalen often game for you start the game? What, for nine from three? I think that's those are huge, huge numbers. Like if you can hit two of ten, maybe that game goes the other way and that's that's not exactly exactly good.


And then Jalen, you know, after the fact, hey, that's on me. It's not on anyone else, man. It's not on anyone else. You let somebody know it's a ridiculous pass by Lowry, who's been, you know, really the guy that gets them going. Lowry was so good at the start of game four. He gets six free throws right away. He didn't take free throws again. It's almost the end of the game.


He attacked, attacked, attacked. He said a toughness tone for that free trade defense. Yeah. And you know what? As much as I hate his charge, game and smarts just bad with the flopping, those were egregious by any stretch with Lowry. You know, he actually was in position in some of them. Even if he's selling it. I don't like the arm. Extend one where you see the guy react like second time through, but it looks a lot easier to dissect.


It's slow motion. But yes, I think Boston is in trouble. But I still think based on how it's played out, like Boston, I couldn't believe was even hanging in game four because they looked so bad on offense again. So I think you should be totally like I don't think it's irreparable after the game three game winner, but they were really bad in game four on offense. They still were hanging in there. It's now a best player in the series series, which as this so often happens, Larry was the best player in in game four, even though the numbers didn't really like he's just put it all over this thing.


He's the toughest guy in the series. He is in the Celtics heads. And a lot of ways like especially on drives, these guys are now driving to the basket over and over again. There's been charges and there people are poking at Tatum when he's Deuce does this little spin move. They're diving at the ground on him. And he had a look on his face that I haven't seen since last year in that game.


Now, granted, maybe he's not having it in. His stats weren't that bad, but from a demeanor standpoint, they were able to knock him out of the level that he was at the eight weeks before the pandemic. And even what he was like in the bubble, he's just you can see him thinking now. And, you know, they basically they're riding with seven guys. They've finally figured out Ibaka is a really bad matchup for the Celltex. And now the chess moves for the Celtics are as follows.


More time lord. There now I have checked this guy. He checked in two and a half minutes into the game, I was like, whew, he really didn't play that much in the second half. I actually think they need him in this series the way it's going, because Torontos figured out how to slow it down. They've figured out how to just use their guards and try to target Kemba as much as they possibly can. They're leaving certain shooters open.


Grant Williams knock yourself out. Right. Marcus Smart. Go ahead. Semiannually, please, here we have a wide open twenty four foot three for you, please take it the way they had a second unit, the second unit, things get bad for Boston, but they had a unit in there where it was Brad Wannamaker, Grant Williams and. Oh, my God, how am I forgetting Semih Wanamaker's Semih, that's right, Wannamaker, Semih and Grant, and it was with Jaelynn Brick Fest and then Kambah, who took only nine shots.


So in Kempo set after the fact, like, I apologize for taking nine shots. OK, well don't apologize after game five, Kepa, like you've got to go. You and Jaylon have 20 shots apiece, that's all. But here's the thing. Playoff experience really matters. And you hear these guys, you hear the talking heads talk about it's a playoff experience, playoff experience. But Toronto has a fucking shitload of playoff experience. Kemba Walker, this is the highest level of basketball that he's been in since he was at UConn.


Right. With with the amount of adjustments and the intensity of this and this shit like that. He's just I'm not saying he can't handle it, but he's just never played and stuff with this. Tatum had his rookie year and so did in Jalen had his second year where they had the Cool Cleveland series. But it's different when you're the favorites. It's different when you're up to and now things are slipping away a little bit. And you're going against this tough team that is like Michael Meyers, I mean.


What are the odds of scoring with zero point five seconds left? You watch these games like we had one today, Miami and deregulation had the ball at one point nine seconds. I've got a terrible shot. I watch basketball type you two to four hundred and ninety five out of five hundred times. It's a terrible shot. It's not even close. Toronto runs the perfect fucking play, beats them. And now and I just I didn't like the way the Celtics responded to yesterday.


I really thought, I thought they were a better team and that they're going to win. I left that game instead of like, fuck, like if if Tatum or Kemba doesn't get going, Toronto might be able to steal the series. And I was thinking about like, this is now becoming a classic playoff series where you have the younger kind of a little unproven guns, the future, the future perennial contender at the beginning stages of it going against the old guys.


Not that sitcom's not old obviously, but going against the old dudes who have been there. The former champs and I had a couple of run down twenty fifteen clip spurs I think was a good run rate clips still trying to. That was a Chris Ball game winner. Right. Right. And the Spurs, the defending champs, gave them everything they could. 2011 OKC Dallas is another one that young OKC team you have Dirk in Dallas and Dirk is just like, you know what and all these old guys playing tricks.


Right, Shawn, Marion, Tyson Chandler, Jason Kidd. And it was just the old guys with the tricks being the young team that had more talent tonight. Both Celtics was another one and the Celtics, that young Bulls team with Rose and Dang and the other Joakim Gordon went off to Ben Gordon and it was like, whoa, this is a series. And it was like the Bulls weren't quite ready to win a series like that, but clearly had the talent.


And I think this is becoming one of those series. I really have a lot of respect for Toronto because I don't think they have as good of a team. Yeah, when things are right, it looks like Boston is a better basketball team and maybe that's too impressionable in the beginning of it, but I still I mean, that would have been really weird if they just smoked him like that. And I thought the Heyward thing was going to hurt him, but it wasn't really hurting him because Boston's defense was so good.


And if Boston plays a good transition defense, you know, Suhakam just isn't that great. He's a nice player. He's not he's not a star. And when he had those up and down playoff games last year, everybody lost track of him because Kawhi was the guy I thought they would attack Kemba a little bit more. And they've done some things like they had one game and figured it was three or four. They started the game with a double screen I think was game three with Lowry.


It was like a double handoff around two screens and it was kind of try to get Kemba on Lowry early and then it ended up getting all messed up anyway and Lowry made the shot. But I also don't understand why they keep playing Gasol as much, but they close with Ibaka in game four for the most part. Unless Gasol came back for like another little stretch. I love him because he is out there as a Celtics fan. Yeah I because Obock he just said he looks like he's hurt.


Don't it doesn't look like he's not. I think he's older and he's huge. I just think he's a lot of minutes, a lot of minutes on his body. Speaking of minutes though, by the way, because nobody would listen to me about this, but I have mentioned it. Not all minutes are created equal. And the comparison I'm gonna say is this. When you look at pitch count for a pitcher, like there could be a guy who throws one hundred and five and those pitches could be way easier than eighty eight pitches or somebody else.


Seriously, the guy could be a changeup guy. He could be pitching a contact, he could be, you know, whatever. Maybe he's got a three run lead. Again, that's a little bit different. But the guys have talked about the stress of like eighty playoff pitches versus one hundred and something regular season pitches. So even though the numbers higher, the stress was actually in the situation of the other ones. So whenever people talk about like this is a good example, because this was making the rounds after Denver got lost in game one, it was you're coming back from this emotional game seven win.


You're you're down there. You're finishing late local time. Good luck getting any rest. And then thirty hours later, you come back and play the Clippers and people have suggested this, the rest of warriors that you just punt on game one so that everybody's fresher now for the rest of the season. And that is that that's the dumbest thing. It's one of the worst things I've ever heard brought up consists of people who don't play sports. That's the whole point of being an athlete, is to compete and see what can happen.


And that same premise that people actually thought was like a decent off premise is Denver's getting just drilled in game one. Well, you would have said the same thing about Houston, but guess what is greatest? Houston is defensively. Offensively, they're not moving around like forty eight minutes for Houston in that system is not the same as forty eight minutes for somebody else in a different system. It's just not it's not the same thing. Like Golden State moves around more Miami, their guys move around a ton.


Houston you stand and watch. And by the way, it's working but. The other part of this is with these stoppages and these reviews, it's like a five quarter game. It's unbelievable how much extra time you're getting now to rest. That was never there before. And some coaches haven't figured this out. It's almost like once bonds, you know, you didn't want to pitch to him. And then in his last year, people kept walking him still.


And you're like, you realize he's Frid, right? Like, it's over. It's done. You could pitch to him a little bit more. And guys are still scares the shit out of me. Some of these coaches haven't figured out what Nick Nurse is one of the best coach of the year, figured it out and he finally said it. So if you look at the stats for the Raptors minute wise in the series Lowry forty one VanVleet forty two S.A.M. forty plus Ogen and OBIS at thirty eight.


Those four guys are playing major minutes because Nabisco's late in the game. We've got these breaks that didn't even exist before so I can, I can play these guys the entire second half now knowing I'm getting these free breaks and everybody should be doing it. Larry was forty six in game three. And then forty, forty four in game four, and I didn't think that was sustainable, because you talk about cheaper minutes versus like real minutes, Larry's fucking going hard.


The game that guys get these on the ground the whole time he's taking charges, he's flying at shooters like a breakdown. Yes, sometimes it's doctor, but sometimes he's flapping the left ones. Lowry cannot finish a layup attempt unless he's on the ground. Well, you know, the other coach who figured out the Minisink Stevens because Tatums went Tatum went forty three and forty three in those two games in in game four, Kemba was up to forty one.


Smart was forty one. Jalen played thirty seven only because he had foul trouble. But I think both of them realized these these idiotic stoppages. I thought Van Gundy, Jeff Van Gundy did a good job talking about how dumb the challenge was today, where the Jimmy Butler gets it goes out of bounds off here, but it went out of bounds because he got hacked so they can review that it went off out of bounds on him, but not review that he got hacked and that's why it went out of bounds.


It's like, what the fuck are we doing? Why do we have a replay free to have instant replay? Go actually review it. They spent four minutes trying to figure out if it was a block or a charge. I hate it. I get rid of all the flow.


They get rid of all of it. It ruins, ruins. It really hurt. It really hurt Miami today in the regulation because they had a lot they they were really coming on there in the last minute regulation. And that Butler thing slowed it down for four minutes. And it just made it weird. And I hate it. I hate it. Everybody talks, replay, get it right. They don't get it right. If you got it right, fine.


I'm all for it. It ruins the whole fun part of basketball and the NCAA tournament. Ruin this with all the ads, the million timeouts, and it's younger. So you're going to foul a little bit more because you should be fouling kids. But, you know, I miss I miss a tie game. Let's go back and forth for four. But we don't get four possessions in a row under two minutes anymore. We just don't because it's all these stupid reviews that don't even get right all the time.


And for the NBA, which again. I've invested a lot of time in this, but I have moments where I go when I watch the end of the Middleton three point shot foul with Dragic. I don't know what the hell you're supposed to do as a defender. As much as I hate charges. Thank God they're in there. Thank God flops which I don't think are as bad now, but in a way I'm glad the reward because it is an offensive player if you're allowed to kick your legs out and then it's just contact.


OK, fine. Now the contact at the top of the shot, like we saw with Brook Lopez in game four against Bam, like that's real contact. That's a foul. But everybody's looking at Brooke's leg being kickboard, but the foul on Dragic isn't really a foul. But now we're calling that And of course Mark Davis calls the foul on Giannis in the right We got the right result on those free throws from Butler But since when can you not put your hand on a guy's torso from the side after balls five feet out of his hands and then I think Mark Jackson is always like Oh there's, there was contact there and you're like wait a minute, no one is allowed to ever pierce the invisible bubble around these guys.


And so forget the kicking your legs for or shooters who kick him straight up and then decide to kick them out. Like when they're wide open, they go straight up and down the screen thing. That's drive me absolutely crazy where if you're trailing me on a screen, I just jump back into you and then flail and throw up a three. And they're like, oh, there's contact there. So what am I supposed to do, just not chase you so I can't close out on you anymore and I can't contest your shot on jumpers.


I can't follow you around a screen anymore. And by the way, you're all chucking us with your off arm. And if you're not checking us with your off arm, sometimes you're grabbing my arm in and then the ref calls that it's Larry.


Larry knows every trick, Larry. That single one in Harden does the best job of flicking everybody away with his off arm because he keeps it close and he's so strong. But some of these videos, words like Harden Gut by this guy or flick this, if you like, dude, he's just shoving him and yet they'll call it if it's in a wide open space, like Harden is just great at hiding it. I there's my referent, but the refs, the league has to do something about what they're letting the offensive player do, because now there's there's just nothing you can do.


Like I almost tell my guys. Yeah. When they're from three, just get a hand up. But, you know, you're almost going to run past them to the side. Now you have to do this, drive by to the side, because forget landing space. If you if you're in their area where they can make contact with you, if they can touch you after the shot, the guys are getting rewarded for that. And it makes the game worse.


There's no debate. I want to start a new segment called Holmer Corner. I'm no longer build the objective podcast host, I'm just Bill the fucking Homer. OK, what are you worried? I'm a fan, Bill. Right now, your tone has changed. Is the Celtics of the balls? I can't stand Stan Van Gundy because I feel like he's rooting against the Celtics. Uh hmm. All of his announcing in game four and I got to the point where I was like, should I admit this?


But then I might not be able to hear he's just rooting for Kyle Lowry and all the bullshit like this. Again, this is homebuilt talking, not podcast's Bill. He's rooting for all all this Kyle Lowry stuff Kyle Lowry does is just brilliant to Stan Van Gundy. Well, all the checks he's got, all the checks, that thing. It's a fucking jerk fest for Kyle Lowry. And then Marcus Flaps. Yeah, twice. And Stan gets on his fucking high horse and rushes Marcus for the flag.


Yeah. This is like, you know, he's he's he's known for that. And I just I don't feel like there's any place basketball for that. It's like you just finished off ejaculating about Kyle Lowry and now now you're mad at Marcus Smart. What the fuck? Well, it was back then again, I'm Bill on that podcast. Bill, this is such fucking bullshit that he is so biased for Toronto and against the Celtics. Don't think I can't see you.


Stan Van Gundy. He was disgusted with Marcus smart decision, disgusted. His voice was noticeable, there was there was an app multiple times. He doesn't look like a smart to voice like everybody that comes at me to say, oh, you hate Louris flopping, but you love smart. Oh, I hate I hate smart flopping. Do I hate it? How about Cyber Larry when he is game three when he got knocked down and he tried to get the flagrant foul and he was lying on the ground when he got kicked in the in this when Wannamaker, Needham or I thought he went down like like his appendix had burst.


I think automaker got a pretty good there. No, no. But but then it was he's really going for the flagrant is oh my God, is this guy going to have to go to hospital and then was like, yeah, no flagrant foul. It's good. All right, let's read play number two. It's totally fine where we stand on that one. Your hero, Kyle Lowry, he's just he's trying to defraud the refs, just like Spertus.


That was as somebody who's anti all the Lowri bullshit as anybody has been for years now in that game. Lowry stuff wasn't as bad as sports was. So I think stand smart with the fake flop and the fast break. That is bad. Where it was the off. It wasn't even the guy with the ball. But quite honestly, I can tell you this poor guy, you can't be for one and against the other, they're the same guy.


You either have to support it or be against them. I hate all of it, I hate all of it, I just hate Andersens, my hero, I'm buying a Justin Anderson jersey for him in the first round to be like the all caps. What was it like, the integrity of the game? Yeah, just going at Lowry. So I'm big. Just interested because I don't like any of it. I hate. Look, I'm telling you right now.


Smart. When it's when it sucks, when it's gross, it's gross, I don't ever like it, I'm not like, oh, that's cool, I hate that shit. Well, Stan should just put a fucking jersey on anyway. That's put a Raptors jersey on just to just open the roof for them. He must have some sort of advice against Boston. Anyway, that was the end of Holmer Corner. That bill, the podcast is back.


All right. Quickly, just want to talk about the Steve Nash thing. I know you cover a lot on your podcast, one of the dumber basketball stories of the last year. I just I never talked about it. I just want to say two things, because sometimes I'm amazed when things become, quote unquote, controversies. First of all, the legacy of great players being hired as coaches is part of the history of the game, but especially guards.


And you look at guys who just became coaches without being assistant just since the merger in nineteen seventy six, Doc Rivers, Jason Kidd, Isaiah Thomas, Steve Kerr, Mark Jackson, Magic Johnson, Danny Ainge, Jerry West, Reggie Theas, Doug Collins. This is a thing that happens over and over again in the league because I think teams feel, rightly so, that guards tend to have the best sense of how a game is played there in leadership positions and just how it goes.


Plus, Willis Reed, Larry Bird, Persuadability, Billy Cunningham all then became head coaches right away to Daniels. There was an assistant premier says one thing. The second thing, Nash, I would say out of any top 50 player ever, and he's a top 50 guy, was probably the best coaching candidate just because of what kind of player he was with the Suns, where he was such a cerebral player. On the one hand, the understanding that he has for basketball is so high level.


But on top of it was a beloved teammate and leader. And I told this story before, but we did 30 with him. We went to dinner with him and some of the Suns at Sundance and Nash. Jared Dudley was there and a couple other people. And Nash was ordering for everybody because they trusted Nash because he was like one of the first health guys. And Jared Dudley is like, Steve, should I get this fish with the butter on it?


And Steve's like, I mean, the guy is like a beloved whatever. And people always thought, well, if he ever wants to coach, the guy would be an amazing coach. But which brings me to the third piece, which is he didn't want to coach because he got divorced. He had he got remarried. He had small kids. You want to be with his kids. He's carved his whole life out the last four or five years to be with kids.


That's the third piece. But then the fourth piece is the biggest. Who do you think hired Steve Nash, wasn't Shawn Marx, wasn't Jaci, it's fucking kidding, Kyrie. Who do you think got rid of Kenny Atkinson if they want to Kenny Atkinson to stay the coach, guess what? They would have kept Kenny Atkinson. It's a players league, Luke Walton last year and the Lakers. Guess what if if LeBron wanted to stay as coach, they would have kept Luke Walton the best players decide to coach James Harden.


Kevin McHale. He didn't want Kevin McHale to be his coach. The more the in the fuck out they got D'Antoni, the stars run the teams, they pick the coaches. Nash has a relationship with the red, as everybody wrote about for four days. Durant clearly wanted Nash as his head coach. So how does this become a bigger situation than just that? That this guy is a top fifty guy who everybody thought would be an awesome coach if you ever want to do it, and KD wanted him as his coach?


Dunn, there's no story. That's it.


I just wanted to say all that quick break to remind you of all of our last minute fantasy football coverage here at The Ringer. You can go to the Ringer Dotcom, read all the pieces that we've had over the last few weeks, including some late ones. And then the Ringer Draft Guide, which is updating the rankings constantly. The Danis call back. You can hear them on the Ringer Fantasy Football show, which did three last week. I think that one's been really fun.


I'm going to talk on Parent Corner about how how how far have fun, how fun it's been with my son. But check that out. I'm going to tell the whole story about my son in fantasy football. Which reminds me, it's time for parent corner, CarMax is America's number one used car retailer. It is back for the second straight year presenting Parent Corner and the best podcast. The first year was a triumphant one and ended up with Kyle getting a car.


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All right, quick parent corner controversal.


My son had his first fantasy football draft on Friday night. He got invited to be in a draft with eighth graders, eight team draft. He's really gotten into football in the last year. He's learned all the stuff in the video games. He actually knows who's good. He knows who the players are, stuff like that. So I got to watch. Him. Dive into this fucking weird world of rankings and just who do I have, what round, what do I do if I have the first pick would have had to have the seventh pick.


He handwrote on a piece of paper all of his rankings for from like one to 50. So he'd be ready. And then I was trying to explain him. The tears thing didn't go very well, but so we took him to number one overall. No, but I was like, look, it's in eighteen league. I think you have to prioritize like quarterback or getting one of the top two tight ends because you'll be able to make a there's so many good running backs after in an 18 wheeler, you'll be able to get those later.


But try to get like Mahomes or Lamar, try to get Kelsey. So I explain that. I think that was like, all right, I got it. I got it. So we're doing the thing. And I'm like, you got to have Clyde Edwards, there's got to be your fifth one, he's like, who does know he is? Because not the video game. And I'm like, he's the chief's guy. He's going to put up a lot of yards like that.


That that's stupid. So he's going through all the things he's like, no, I don't like hearing that. He's ninth on this list is 10th on this. So some, like Ben is just trust me, he's going to put up a ton of how could he not trust me? Like, I get the dad son ANCs, but he still isn't capable of, like, trusting his dad who built a sports empire. Like he doesn't he doesn't want to give his dad credit even on that.


So that was my point. I was like a don't ask me for my help if you're not going to listen me and be like, kind of fucking know what I'm doing. I was playing fantasy football when you were 17 years old. I was like, put Clyde Edwards Hillary. He should be the fifth because, like, I want to take Michael Thomas. He's really good. I'm like, well, that's fine, but that would be stupid.


Take that risk there and then try to run on the chiefs. So I'm explaining to them, like, get as many chiefs as possible is like a good idea. Good idea. I'll do that. I'll get as many chiefs as possible. Then we could watch the chiefs and anyone who score. I'm like, yeah, you're getting it. So it takes Clyde Edwards to their fifth coming back second round, gets Mahomes and then it goes to the third round.


And he's all excited because he's a and then I would take Travis Kelsie. And it's going to be great, I'm going to have Mahomes, I'm going to have Clyde Travis, Kelsey, we have the Chiefs, so we're waiting. Guys are going up and he's on the he's one away and the guy in front of him takes Kalsi. And he had like, this fucking meltdown.


Yeah. Meltdown just like that.


Oh, fuck. I just turned, like, throwing his things. And just in real time, I got to see somebody become actually addicted to fantasy football in this moment where he thought he was getting Travis, Kelsey had no idea the rug was going to be pulled out from under him.


And anyway, so the draft goes through or you saw the beginning of a Q 16 smoking cigarettes at 7-Eleven spic and five, maybe hanging out with skateboarders, who does by the end of the draft is like, that was awesome.


Can I be in yours? I want to know this. As you know, the personality addictive personality. I said it's like I want to be more of these. That was so much fun. He's staring at his team. He's showing me the guy he's going against in round one. And it was just like. You know, it's it's fantasy football is never going to die, is my point. They added another 12 year old is now in for life fantasy football.


I got to you can't be in the league with you, though, because that's collusion, you would you would ask him to start trading. You know, he wants to be my partner. He wants to help me pick my team. Yeah, but you're not so you're not going to be good at that, you're not going to be good at that. You're not going to listen. Well, I'll just do whatever you want. Yeah, right.


Yeah, but he wants to be involved. I'm like, you're not going to care unless you're picking the guys. So it was all thing. I was really psyched though to watch in real time. Him get hooked. Are those little moments as a dad where you see things like you're constantly learning more about your kids the whole time?


Well, it's just dorky thing.


It's such a waste of time as it is. You know, I hate fantasy football, but I get sucked back in every. You hate it. You talk. I hate that there's there's 11 losers and only one guy is happy at the end and you get a couple of congratulatory phone calls and you win some money. But ultimately, it's not nearly as satisfying as it is frustrating. It's one hundred times more frustrating than it is happy when you win.


So, like, do I wish I didn't play fantasy football? Yeah, but I can't stop. I can't even two leagues. I don't know how big of a problem will they could clean up Kyle. Yeah. Kyle really loves it. Kiles, I kind of like over the top a little bit. Who's your go to Guy Kyle? Who do you trust the most for fantasy advice? I mean, it's Bill I've never want to leave. Let's just be honest, I think I think he said that he's won the league once, so that's good enough for me.


I've won a couple of minutes. I think it's been. Yeah, exactly.


On the video, I think something shady is going on with Kyle. I think he's doing this screwed up like a bug. And Vanessa, I just don't want you guys to see how I'm living right now in the pandemic.


And you can't change my mind on that. That's fine. We won't. I think there might be something I thought for a second. Yeah, but I mean, he's under 30 Labor Day Sunday. This is a bonus going out night. But you can't go anywhere. You're going to find something. Go ahead, I was going to say this is great for him because we told him we might do something after Lakers Rockets, but now fuck it, unless, like James Harden has 80 points, we're not putting something on top of the pot.


We're just putting it up. Well, you're going to because you're going to. Well, just because you said that now he is going to win, it's going to be too oh, it's going to be the lead. And we're going to to do with the top of the pot. Now, we're not doing that anyway. Check out CarMax and Parent Corner Rosillo we're moving to. Thursday night, starting next week. So this upcoming Thursday or a week from Thursday, OK, or no problem, so I'm not going to see you for like 10 days, but we are.


We're we're pretty pumped for the Thursday night possibilities. How much football homework have you done? I'm about 10 percent where I need to be right now. So you're 90 percent there, 10 percent there. So I'm 10 percent of where I need to be. So now, yeah, I'm I'm behind, but I'll pick it up like that. My whole thing is like mindset season wise, like all the college football. But I mean the basketball thing every day, that's that's just what I've got my routine down and then it's basketball.


My big thing on the West Coast is like once they're over, I don't really know what to do. I mean, I'm getting a couple other side projects, you know, me very creative guy, get the side projects going. So I try to get those. But like, if I don't get to him in the morning, then I really like doing them at night. But it's all right. So that means no next Sunday. That means next week or back a week from Thursday.


So that we're doing Thursday nights through basketball and through the first week of free, through the draft, through first week of free agency. And then God only knows when the NBA is coming back. Yeah, it is. You were right about that early, because you can already tell by what Silver's saying, like it's not going to come back even close. Well, I just don't think they're going to want to miss any of those Christmas games, though.


There's no way they're putting on that day. I wouldn't think so. Did you see the. The Patriots skill position players, is it depressing as the Red Sox rotation this past week? Have you paid attention at all to they had a guy who hadn't pitched in a game in six years. Then this other dude, Andrew Trigg's, was that the name? Yeah, they had a TBD on the on the this Red Sox thing is do they understand that when you take in baseball, it's not the same like it doesn't guarantee you a chance for LeBron that turns everything around this taking in baseball shit.


It has to be the most overrated approach to anything. And I still wish I could do the whole the Houston Astros thing. Everybody loves the idea. They take it. If you really went through that roster that one of those games. Taking to me is completely different for baseball, and I don't. Is that what's happening? This Red Sox season's gross. So I only have one friend that I text about the Red Sox with my friend Handschu still torturing himself, watching these games.


He's watching all of these games.


Well, he he claims he's not. But I know he is because I'll get some texts like, oh, my God, JT just turned on one of what he we're both so angry at the big giant shit that the Red Sox owners mailed to every Red Sox fan this year. And it's like we won four titles. It's so hard to complain. But, you know, you want like a modicum of feeling like they care about us. And the pictures they're putting out.


You can't overstate how bad they're like routinely somebody will come in, the guy today gave up six runs in like an inning and it's over and over again. It's people you've never heard of. This is a big market team. They're one of the five most lucrative franchises. And Mookie's just crushing it for the Dodgers. It's just getting worse and worse.


Are you talking about Matt Hall, who had a career thirty one innings with the Tigers the previous two years and now is pitched in three games to the Sox and has an era of nineteen point eight nine?


Yeah, I mean, he gives you over two runs an inning if you went through this huge pitch today. Oh, Trigg's Hall. Layer springs, Bryce, this is there, Rhett, there's the rotation is the baseball video game without the players license. Well, and then the other John Dowd shout out with the Patriots. You know, this Cam Newton story is inspiring. He really seems like everybody's everybody's fired up for this comeback season, they elected him, Captain Belichick has been raving about him, although I have some longtime Patriot people are like, oh, any time he's raving about somebody like this, he's up to something.


So I don't know what he's up to, but. They have they gave him the worst skill, guys, so it's like you might have this rejuvenated Cam Newton season, but it's like knock yourself out with James White, Julian Edelman in the last stage of his career, Jacoby Myers and hopefully Nicole Kro be half decent and two rookie tight ends go nuts. I don't I'm just nervous. But as always, I believe in Belichick and I trust I'm trusting the process as my point.


Belichick, if you ran a restaurant, you'd be like great parking. Great front of house. Salads are unbelievable. Yeah, appetizers are on point. Entrees are great. Desserts are terrific. But why are they playing Pantera while we're listening? Like, I'm bringing my grandmother here. She loves the way she loves the salad bar, but they're playing Pantera and it doesn't mean the meal wasn't amazing, doesn't mean there wasn't great value. Doesn't mean we didn't we like we're craving their food again.


But why? And that's what Belichick is with wide receivers. He can't he just can't like. Yes, the Welker thing was great. Great job on Edelman. But to trade a second rounder for Sanu and then cut him and all that capacity, he just he needs a wide receiver specialist. He needs someone that could be like, hey, Bill, what we I love these ads about not turning in your parents. Were the guys circling the thing on the white board.


He goes up here he goes. It's silent in the woman's like, I don't have silent on my phone. He said, yes, you do. It's up here at the top. And then he's at Home Depot and he's on speakerphone like, hey, we're in a public space. Why are we why are we on speakerphone? Just keep reminding him Belichick needs somebody to go, hey, what are we hey, six two guys that weren't that productive in the PAC 12.


What do we say about Florida? Florida guys that are just they run a good forty. What's the rule? Do have they made any catches? No. OK, we don't take them.


So would you see the list of all the all the second rounders they've squandered either by trade or picks? Pick is like nine for thirty four in the second round. It's almost like he likes the list that my friend juror juror said was nine nine thirty four. Wait from Bill Marcio, yeah, you're friends with him? Yeah, he's a I don't know, I know all the Boston sports fans who were out here. You know, he's he's a summer on the Vineyard guy.


So I knew him when I was a teenager. I didn't know you were friends with J. Well, he's he's like my friend and she's like hardcore.


And he he went and he looked up every second round pick the last 20 years.


It panned out and we were nine for thirty for the second round we were six Super Bowls. As I fuck a possible way. Before we go, you have to do your imitation of Mark Jackson as a movie critic. Yeah, OK. All right, here we go, ready? All right, three, two, one. TENNET Unbelievable budget, great expectations. You walk in, you grab your popcorn, you sit down, boom. Stars everywhere, explosions, buildings, they're moving.


But what day is it? And my traveling through time, I thought, were you or my sleep or am I not asleep? I thought we already did that. What day is it? Is this time travel? Daniel Day Lewis doesn't get enough credit for what kind of actor he is. Can't buy me love. Now, look, I like pizza, too, but at some point you have to mature. You can't just run around town sleeping with everybody, deliver pizzas.


At some point, you have to open up your own pizza shop. People don't talk enough about Hot Dog the movie, though, you know what, I don't think they do anymore, so that's accurate. That's how would be accurate. I know in movies you mix that pizza boy and can't buy me love. I was going to say anything. Oh, I love it. But he pays the girl the data. Yeah, no, no. I know Cindy Mancini.


I can't believe she can't buy me love, but actually they're all part of the routine. But you can't buy me love. Instead people say, how do you spend your cap space? Well, look at Ronald McDonald. That was real value. Now you're. I'm excited about the mom with the dame on purpose. Right. Got to say, the signing of the off season, great value there. For one thousand dollars, the girl gets a new dress.


She doesn't get in trouble. He dates cheerleaders. I'd say that was a good use of cap space. Mama, there goes that thousand dollars. Meryl Streep doesn't get enough credit for what a good actor she is. I like Jackson. He's a good guy. Yeah, no, I mean, look, St. John's, he's one of my all time. I was so happy when I won Rookie of the Year. So I want people to understand that.


But Mark Jackson as a movie critic should be a bit during the during the NBA games, like they're in like third quarter and people get a little groggy, just like like Mike Brown should be like, hey, Markstein, any movies? And just let's hear let's say it happens.


Watch a great escape the other night. My question, Jeff Van Gundy, how great was the escape? To be honest, day one president did not set the tone very lax. I just watched the Great Escape the other night. That was a real lax prison. Like the guys just got to walk around and do a ton of stuff, like, no wonder.


I mean, come on. That's the old movie. All right, Kyle, thanks for working on Labor Day Sunday. You can put this pot up no matter what happens with Brackett's Lakers. Hopefully James Harden does have 70 points. Rosillo, we can listen to two of your pods this week. I'm sure you have some football stuff coming and then you're back here.


We move to Thursday officially. So that means that means after I tape Thursday, I'm off for a couple of days. Yeah, there you go. Oh. I might try to get in the car, go somewhere, but still be locked into the hoops. All right, Richard. Always good to see you. All right, thanks to Rosillo, thanks to Spotify, don't forget about our new contest on Fandor, it's very important that you come there and I can try to kick your ass.


It is yet to go. Defendor Dotcom, such mega contest or just search for it on Fandor. It's free. Pick five NFL games gets the spread, including one double down. And if you finish in the top hundred on the season long leaderboard, you make the playoffs, you compete for a share of twenty five thousand dollars. It's that simple. Played for free. Thando Dotcom slash mega contest. Make your picks today. Weak ones coming. I will see you for the watch balls on Monday night.


The usual suspects and then I'll see you Tuesday night. Guess the lions with cousins out year fourteen. Looking forward to seeing it.