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Peace on the planet, I go by the name of Charlemagne, the God co-founder of the Black Effect Podcast Network, and America's restaurants need our support more than ever. And for many black owned eateries, systemic barriers further heightened by the pandemic have only increased challenges to success. Perhaps these new digging platform is a multi-year, multi-million dollar commitment that provides tools and resources to help black owned restaurants thrive so they can share the joy of food with as many people as possible to go from one hundred million dollars in sales for black owned restaurants over the next five years.


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I'm Roy Jr. I'm a stand up comedian. I'm a correspondent on The Daily Show with Trevor Noah. I'm a father, I'm a psychiatrist and I have a podcast called Roy's Job there. This show is a therapy session for anybody who's looking for work and wants to slap somebody at work or is hiring somebody to work for them so that eventually they can slap you to one part. Laughs One part inspiration. I cannot wait to welcome you to Roy's job fair on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.


Peace to the planet, I go by the name of Charlemagne to God. Now maybe, you know, maybe you don't. But I have partnered with I Heart Radio to launch a brand new network called the Black Effec Podcast Network, the place where black culture is celebrated in black voices are heard. One of the shows that you know I love, I was a fan of before we even partnered with each other is my man Matt Barnes and Stephen Jackson, collectively known as All the Smoke.


OK, All the Smoke is a podcast that talks about basketball, but really they just talk about life, man. And you know, Matt Barnes and Stephen Jackson, they don't bite their tongue for nobody. Some people call them outspoken. Some people call them controversial. I just call them too.


Real black men are right to real men of color, right to real individuals, period. All right. Matt Barnes and Stephen Jackson, I've been on the show and that felt surreal for me because I'm such a fan of the show, man. But just to be able to say those are my partners and, you know, they rocket with the black effect. That means more than you would ever know, man. So in a second, you'll get to hear an episode I appeared on for the show.


And if you like it, I hope you'll go find all the smoke in your podcast, listening and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Welcome back season to all the smoke from our beautiful New York location, excited about today's guest, someone I really look up to in this space, one of the strongest black voices to me in the country, Charlamagne Matt. Thank you, bro. Thank you for having me. I love all the smoke. I love when I get the opportunity to actually be on shows that I actually listen to.


And that's how we started this club. It's only right.


We'll get into how we really working together later. But let's just let's get into it in the climate of America is on the brink of changing. I think it's finally reared its naked head and people are starting to realize that there's some real issues here. What is your thought of where we're at as a society right now? I think wherever we're at is no going back. I'm one of them. Do the first voting in 08 when President Obama won the White House and I only voted for him because he was black, is black and he was cool.


He had the culture, you know. But I think right now a lot of us are more politically sophisticated and we understand that you have to have the right people in office to make certain things happen. You know, and I think those rose colored glasses that we all wore when Barack was in the White House, that's all like I don't care if it's Joe Biden and Senator Harris, whoever is in there, we're not just going to be in love with them because they're in there, you know?


I mean, that's not what a change come to change comes is continuing to push once they get in the White House. So I think wherever we're at in this country, there's no going back because both sides have been exposed. Right. Like we've been to. It's not all sweet. And now the other side definitely knows it's not all sweet. But then we also know that there's a whole other side finding it hard to be thinking. What are you talking about?


What do you all this shit you're talking about? What are you talking about? That's what tripped me out, is we've been able to wake some people up and heighten their senses and step outside of themselves and be vulnerable to try to understand the pain that the black community goes through. But there's a lot of people that feel like we're crazy for even addressing this and what are we talking about? And it's all bullshit. Why would they want to relinquish that kind of power?


Right. You know, they got power. They got privilege. Why would they want to relinquish it? We definitely will have to fight for that.


Right. I kind of feel like we're going to be in this fight and to Indian and black, but have a fingerprint on the Constitution, how this country is actually ran because the president only can do so much. Right. You know what I'm saying? And then again, I don't believe in voting for the lesser evil.


Evil is evil. You know, I'm saying and if we understand that the system is built for us to be in this position is still fighting to this day that we have to have a say. So how is Rand? And that's really the only way we're going to stop this shit. You know, I'm saying because a lot of times, like, say, we vote for people that we don't have a history of hating us. Absolutely. So what kind of what kind of situation is that?


We have? We vote for somebody who we know hate us. They don't make no sense. The way I kind of look at that situation, though, I mean, since we're here now, I think as the black community, we ask people to understand and try to grow if you are a certain way. So the first thing everyone points out is Biden's track record by no means justifying anything. This just kind just the way I kind of look at it.


We look at his track record and he you could definitely say he was against the black community. Eighty six. Eighty six. Mandatory minimum sentencing. Eighty crack laws. You got more time for crack and code 94 crime bill like. Yes. So you could see. Definitely. Exactly right. So for him to say anything other to me, I just made a mistake. That's what I want to hear it. And then to me. But also, like I said, so the way I'm looking at his track record, he's quick to look at my track, are getting shit, to be honest with you.


But to me, it's just like, can he possibly change? Can he possibly see through a different lens? Did being with Barack for that amount of time rub off on him? So we're looking at someone who can possibly have changed where he came from. On the other hand, we know who this other who the current president is, what he's about, what his makeup is, who is base is. So to me, it's just like people say, the lesser of two evils.


And I would agree to an extent, but I'm looking at someone who can possibly have changed. And if he's in office, he's going to have to prove that he changed because we realized he realized he could be gone after one term if he's able to make it or we pick someone who we know who he is.


Yeah, I don't even look at Joe Biden as a change agent. I look at him as a pathway to change.


I honestly feel like getting to see more old white male leadership that aid the pathway to change all white male leadership in this position. I mean, from the inception of how this country was put together, it was built for this old white male patriarchy and everybody else was considered secondary.


So I don't look at either one of them as change agents. I definitely look at Biden is the change. Definitely a look at the changing. But I think Biden is a pathway to change, you know what I mean?


And it's like you say, talking about forgiving. Let me go back to that, because you know how they do us. We could be on TV. That's right. All the stuff we're doing right now. Right. We've got a great show, all the stuff I'm doing in the community. But as soon as I get on CNN, the first person they do is talk about the Bronx. That's right. You know, they want to, but they want us to forget they don't work like that.


And that's that's why I. Personally, I don't give a fuck about criticizing Joe Biden because he, like you, shouldn't criticize Joe Biden. You will ruin his chances for like like why can I not critique him, call out his flaws, call on his record and still vote for him.


What kind of world we live one to be quiet. Is that literally like you telling people to shut up and vote the way people tell athletes to shut up and dream like I'm not going to shut up and vote. I'm a vote based off my interest and I'm going to call a lot of things I don't like. And if you put some things on the table that I do like, hey, I rock with it.


You said forgive this person, but you've got a cousin that to two dollars from you that you made that you grew up with your whole life, but you forgave him.


You figured and you still feel mad at him pivoting a little bit to the social justice movement. You know, I kind of feel like when Kobe passed, it was it's been a domino effect of negative things to happen since then. Never before that the march for life may have been the same, right? I feel like a glitch in the Matrix after that. She just been going like this. OK, that's a great point. So we get to the pandemic and then we get to George Floyd situation, which my man right here was was for the biggest or if not the biggest protest in the history of our country.


What was your take from from all that when that George Floyd video hit man? I remember exactly. Why was that? Because I was trying to avoid it. And the reason I was trying to avoid because I think sometimes when we pass, we just passed trauma amongst each other on social media.


And it's another video of the video. It is a video of that person. And it's just like, what are we trying to prove? We know what's going on in our country. Like, you get tired of looking at the other side need to see that. And I remember my homegirl call me was actually it was Tiffany had she called me and she was on the phone and she was telling me about it and she was crying. I'm like, ma'am, I'm trying to avoid it.


And as I'm watching CNN, the video pops up. So I was forced to look at it.


And I think that the reason that video was so impactful is because of that exact reason. A lot of us that know what's going on, we can avoid it. A lot of white people can definitely avoid it. That ain't even their world at all. But when we were forced to be still because of that coronavirus and we are sitting at home and we got to watch that eight minutes and forty six seconds. When I saw that, my immediate thought was I felt defeated.


And the reason I felt the fear, because I'm like, man, is this black man can be out in broad daylight, these cops kneeling on his neck. I'm watching all the other brothers and sisters around just feeling hopeless, you know what I mean? Not knowing what to do in that moment. I know they want to help. I know they want to react, but they don't want to end up dead. It's just like I feel defeated.


I'm like, what do what? What do we do?


And then when I saw everybody start to finish it up and it down, I'm like, what's what other reaction do you expect from people? I guess only but so much in a community that people can take, especially in a city where it's been going on.


A lot of people didn't even know that. Well, I say when the George fluid situation hit, unfortunately, when we like you said, we've become so immune to it, we see police brutality. It's a shot and killed. We saw for nearly nine minutes a man suffer and beg and plead and call for is dead.


Mom, you know, to me, like, I think that having this, like you said, having to see that because the world was still is the reason that the light came on and some people said, but then at the same time, instantly he did this and his his past is this. And he he was he was resisting and he was doing all this. And he you know, he had underlying to like I mean, even the coroner came out and gave a bullshit autopsy results.


So it's crazy to even when it's on your face, in front of your children, to your grandmother and everyone can see you still try to deny it.


Yeah, it was the lack of empathy for me. It was just a lack of empathy watching that that that devil have his knee on the brother's neck in. No, you mean to tell me not one other officer had the empathy to be like this more?


Second, it's like I am now white.


And so you see the interview. I mean, the view where they're going outside of going, oh, let me talk to them on top of them.


It's like, you know, what are we supposed to have? Is black people in this system like seriously like that? I don't care. A young lady named when she said they should be lucky. Black people just want equality and not revenge. That's a very powerful statement to make because it's the truth.


Like we should all just be tarnished based on the history that we based off what we've gone through in this country. And in the first thing they want to point out is the fact that things are getting torn up, but they never want to talk about, well, why is it getting torn up or why are they doing they're just they're just wild animals. That's the way they want to paint us and act. But let's address why they're frustrated by the why did Kentucky board up downtown before they gave the result of the cops?


Because it wasn't because they knew. Why did they tell the cops not to go on vacation and stay? Because they knew they weren't going to serve justice. Like, let's look at the root issue of why this other shit is happening.


I love the tuto because they activated so many people in our community, like of all colors. Man, when I saw Steven and Trey and to me at that press conference, man, I'm just like, wow, you know?


And I know that it was people telling you to stand down and like you. Good.


You got to be careful. What was that like, though? But they said, you know, I didn't pay no attention to it. You know, I am you know, I've always been my brother's keeper, you know? I mean and like I said, that's the closest person I can say to my twin ever in my life, you know, even though he wasn't real brothers. But I did with for him what I do for any one of my brother.


But, you know, it was causing me to go stand up and use my voice and my status to speak up. But just as anybody, you know, I was going to do it here, I had a chance.


But what was it like for you? You've been a leader in locker rooms and on the floor. But what's it like being a leader or a culture for a movement for something that the country has never seen, the world has never seen?


I'll just leave with my heart, bro. Just try to do what I know is right. You know, I'm saying I treat everybody the same. I don't have a history of racism. I don't have. A history of hatred towards nobody, so I walk and talk, you know, I mean, I wear my emotions on my sleeve and what you see is what you give me. But at the same time, I know I don't have all the answers.


You know, I'm saying I know just like we talked about. I might not see what I'm fighting for, you know, I'm saying. But as long as I have, I know I had a hand in saying I know I'm living my my death is going to be worthy.


How do you feel, even though you are doing what's right, you're met with so much pushback, resistance, death threats, like how does that? Because I'm sure you've probably faced in Europe very vocal in space, no threat to you, especially on social media.


I hate them so much. It's just like, OK, you want to see me dead, I can literally tweet out, thank you.


God bless me with another life and somebody be like, I was praying, you know, literally every day.


But what they don't know is when they do stuff like that, you just showing how much you've done inside you, showing how miserable your life is and how powerful we are.


And then they see, like Taalam, I said, why would they ever want to give that away? Because they see us. They they've done everything they possibly can to keep a whole community, a whole set of people down. And we continue to climb the ladder. We have to be divine. I always say that, like when I'm speaking about black privilege. Right. And people hear me say that like I did no such thing as black privilege.


But I'm not talking about something systemic. I'm talking about something spiritual. You're saying I really do feel like it's a privilege and an honor to be in this black skin. And I feel like where their power lies systemically are power lies spiritually. And I feel like that's why I think the shift in that, because I'm not a slave for the first time, but for the first time in probably a long time, it's the collective mindset of black people saying, no, something has to change and they're putting energy toward that and speaking into the universe.


And it's just like things are literally shifting around systemically right now. We're getting the chance to really get like some some systemic change happening. So I think it's a beautiful thing.


At the end of the day, when this is over, we're going to look back and be like that was the one that was the catalyst for change. You know, I face a lot of kickback personally because I'm biracial. You know, my mom was telling my dad is black and people were like, well, how are you? So this is not because I've seen the good and bad on both sides. I've got it. I was growing up.


I was never white enough. I was never black enough. So I've seen the good side and bad side from both sides. But there was an incident in high school that really damn near burned my high school down.


And that's when I realized, like no matter how proud I am to be biracial, like I'm looked at as a black man, that's going to be a huge operation to do. Like you said, that they have to change to fifteen in the morning how people here don't understand. Like, what are you talking about? You're half mine. I'm just like, you're right. And I'm very proud to be that. But in this world, you're not as a biracial person, you don't get a choice.


They make it for you like Obama's biracial. But what is he, our first black president after me?


So if you could address a drop of black in you, that's what you are. And people have a hard time even from the black side, you black. All right. You got me. You know what I mean? So it's just like it's there's a lot of inter battles amongst the bigger battles that need to come to see and understand. And if we come together as black and brown and then all of our other allies throughout the rainbow of colors, we can really make a change.


But that's the only way we can do it. It's not just going to be basketball in the bubble. It's not just going to be celebrities. It's going to take all of us together to change something we didn't create in the first place. You feel like a sense of privilege? Me? Never, never, never have I because people think you're rich, because that's what the motherfucking.


And that's what the lady people like like you said earlier, like Jack, stand down. You're rich like people. That's different. You've got money. You don't feel like we came from this this world. We came from food stamps. We came from sharing vegetables. We came from moving. I came from drugs and drug abuse and violence and all that kind of shit. I mean, privilege from the white side, because I never I, I wouldn't say privilege.


I get lucky because I play basketball sometimes. I don't recognize that side. But as far as just not regular everyday life, a police officer can't tell that you right halfway and don't care. Don't give a fuck. Right. If you tell him that he probably like we've got somebody here on drugs right now, the more you some backup, what do you feel like the NBA's role has been in the bubble? And did you kind of like the idea of them going back or did you think they shouldn't?


I like the idea until Stephen made me think twice about it. I was all boys. I know Steve is a man. They don't need to come back. We need to know this is a chance to get some real change. And I was like, damn. So that was a whole nother conversation. I thought it should they go back, should they not go back?


And I feel like they should have went back because I knew eventually the news cameras were going to go away from the protest. And being that I knew the news cameras were going to go away, we needed those brothers on that stage to do exactly what the. I mean, to keep that conversation going, they did, LeBron did, and I heard you say, I think it was the first episode of All the Smoke where you was talking about how the little known players, the lesson, the lesson, the play.


They didn't have a voice. We wouldn't hurt. We wouldn't hurt. But now when they speak at that bubble, it's a red and NBA logo. And that was my only push. And Jackie and I agreed to disagree. And most score points on both sides because we were on opposite spectrum. Like I thought just what you said, like, their voice is much stronger. It's going to resonate. It's going to go around the world when they have the NBA logo behind it individually.


We're going to hear LeBron. We're going to hear KCP. Do we hear Doc's plea? Do we hear George Hill's plea? Do we hear Fred VanVleet like we don't hear these other pleas if we're not together in that bubble, what do you feel like now that we're coming to an end to keep the momentum going to the NBA in particular we can do to keep this message going.


I don't want to be honest with you. I'm not sure outside of like real donations into the black community. Like I saw the number that they put up. I think it was like three hundred million shit for the NBA. But Denver, how dirty is gone? We know with the 30 owners. That's my thing is I just I think the owners should step up, because to be honest with you, a lot of these owners are on the exact opposite side of where their players stand, the exact opposite side.


And when you're an owner, you're a billionaire. You have these connections to be able to start conversations, open up dialogues, whatever political avenue you're in, you know what I mean? So I just think it's more of because a lot of them didn't want to talk, there are some that went out of their way to talk. There's a lot of coaches that went out of their way to talk with a lot of them sat on and kept their mouth shut and sat on their hands, you know, I mean, so to me, it's more about align with your players, understand what your players are talking about, even if you may not completely agree.


But just have this conversation and we need the owners and players to come more together. And you hit on the head. Three hundred million. Sounds like a lot to the average people, but over ten years. Well, if you think about these owners are playing their two star players over three hundred million, you know, so it's not for thirty people to come. It's that wasn't I think it's a great start, but I think it's not enough.


And we have to continue to keep pressure on them because they're arenas are in these predominantly poor cities. And, you know, people have to budget a whole month's salary to go to a game and take a family and to get food and to buy merchandise and that kind of stuff. So, like, I like Robert Smith, two percent playing well. He wanted all of these top corporations to put two percent of their net income into black owned banks because in the black owned banks could take care basically of the community.


People get loans and house loans, whatever it is. That's that's not something the NBA should commit to, because a lot of these problems that we have in these communities can be fixed by people with money. Got to wait on government. So they should be talking. And I also think the NBA needs something kind of like the NFL had with the inspired change thing. You know, I mean, like the thing Roc Nation name is hidden. Like they need somebody to dictate where that money goes, give it to the brother that's already on the ground and it not necessarily a big name.


Some of these big name corporations are just sucking money away. And it's not we have no but get in touch. You should have like a city leader in every city that you trust or some kind of liaison that tells you like you're that group of there's really no reason for that. There's this. So let's allocate let's throw them three million. Let's throw them seven. You know what I mean? To really know where the money is. Because until you're walking, because every neighborhood is different, Houston's problems and Atlanta's problems are different than the problems in Sacramento and Oakland.


You I mean, so you have to be in tune with who's in these cities to see which programs best fit and best work in these cities. But there needs to be transparency on where this money is definitely going. I thought the NBA did a great job of keeping the players safe, first and foremost with being in the bubble and being tested and doing a great job at that. And then you see this administration reckless mask, calling it a hoax, making fun of whatever.


And now the president has it. What kind of irony? I don't see that. I don't think that's irony. I think he earned it. I think he earned it. And he got exactly what he deserved. Like, if you're going to throw your middle finger to something and act like it doesn't exist, that's usually the thing that you do right in your face. And that's what happened with Cole. And what did he say when you got the number of how many people does it is what it is, is what it is.


You can't not feel bad for people feeling like that towards him. Now, I'm not I'm the type of person I don't wish. Definitely no, I don't wish death on him at all, but I don't even believe he really got it. I he would have to die in order for me to believe that I'm being honest with you because it's October. We've got the whole October surprise thing going on. And you saw someone tweeted maybe two weeks ago, this is going to be I posted it the other day.


This is going to be Trump's October surprise is he's going to be sick and he's going to dominate the headlines for two weeks on how hard he's working with these fake pictures of him working and scribbling his name on. Absolutely. Like, the gimmicks are incredible. And it might be a cash out plan, right?


If he know that he's leaving in November, he's getting voted out. He might have an investment into the pharmaceutical. He's out there telling people he's taking these experimental cocktails.


I thought a stock shoot up from somewhere are not so good. I can't remember the name of a pharmaceutical company, but they shot up two percent after he told everybody he took this experimental cocktail.


And from Queens, from Queens, the people who founded the company, I don't know how old is he? He's always had me hustle to me before this presidency and before he kind of showed his head or whatever hand he's had to play to get to where he is. He's always had I mean, he hasn't always won, but he's always been a mean hustling business. Have you tried to benefit? You've got a motive and everything you doing, bro?


I mean, it's what role would you like to see the black community play, not only amongst us coming together, but on the federal level and in state level of power? We need more black people. Wanting to be a part of that system, you know what I'm saying? Because even though I think the whole system need to be overhauled, everything, I think they need to start over. We need to write a whole new constitution and a whole new bill of rights every day because we were not at that table when those things were initially written.


But until we can do that, we've got to have people that are in these positions of power and we have to empower them in order to be able to give them the skills they need to stand up to that system. Because what happens is a lot of us get in those positions and we just go along to get along. I'm not trying to rock the boat too much. It's like, so what's the point of you being it? Right. We don't need black faces, you know, in those spaces just because I want you in there, because you care about our interests.


So I would encourage like when I see Scarface running for political office in Houston, I like that. I want to do something like that. Yeah, I know you want to run for mayor. I want to see color might get in the politics. I want to see people that I know have our interests at heart get involved. Now, a lot of us might be scared because we know that background checks is great, you know? So it as though this is crazy, too.


Absolutely. I just want to see more of us in positions of power, and I want them to know that we got their back and we're empowering them to really show up as the fall.


So that's really the biggest thing, right? You right. Because that's been our biggest problem. We scared to get behind our brother. And even though we know that going in a direction we're scared to get behind because we want to lead instead of just being a team player, that's biggest problem. I always say you can get you can get away more done when you stop worrying about who gets the credit for it. Right. I mean, that's what that's an Doc Rivers to be a star in your role.


I mean, everyone has a role to play. We can all we all have a role to play. And together we know who the leaders are going to be. Cammalleri is my leader. Yeah. If you have, you have to call yourself the leader. You're probably not the not the leader if you have to give yourself a nickname. Mondego, that's not really your nickname. You know I'm jealous.


Right. Something else. You're so dope. But what you're doing is how you're supposed to be a leader. Are you Kitty's nickname. So anyway, so how do we get to this point, your upbringing, your parents, Jehovah Witness, your dad was from Jehovah, the practicing Islam. What was that like growing up in a situation like that? I mean, you know, when you were a kid, you don't really have no say in the matter.


You know, my grandmother is a Baptist mom, a Jehovah's Witness. My mom said, get up and it's time to go to the kingdom all the time to go to the kingdom. When my dad gets disfellowship from the Kingdom Hall, he gets into Islam and he hands me the autobiography of Malcolm X. I read the autobiography of Malcolm X. He hands me most of the black man, Buyology, Muhammad. I like Muhammad when he told me to sit down and you going to watch these speeches.


I'm going to push back on. I sit down, I watch those speeches. It's really just about what sticks with you as you get older. And what I realize is a little bit a little bit of all of this stuff, the Jehovah's Witnesses talk, it's stuck with me for the holidays.


My, my my wife and kids love the holidays. They do Christmas.


But being a Muslim Islam like all of that stuff, I don't really consider myself anything. But there's a little bit of everything, a little bit of all of them. You got to rely on yourself. You got to be teach yourself to a lot of stuff that I was taught as a kid. I don't believe now as a as a as a man, I don't understand stuff different. You know, it's a lot of stuff was told point of view, but a lot of stuff was told to you as a kid to really to put a bandaid over some shit and not really give you the full understanding.


That's right. But as you come, did some of those things you don't believe you understand. Now, I heard you say I don't even know what show was.


If we're just talking off air, leave it out of my heart that you've learned more in this this last six, eight months than you remember learning your whole life, educating yourself and made the effort to educate. Because I want to know what I'm talking about. You know, I never talk to you about going back to school, give my history degree, you know, so I'm in the process of doing that because it sparked when we're broadsided the sparks something and go up.


I'm in position that I didn't feel like I always say, but it sparks something. And I was supposed to happen and my heart is in the right place. So everything that I'm trying to do, I want to know what I'm talking about. OK, what about what I'm saying?


I feel the same way. I just know that I'm never going to be as smart as some people like you have. Michael Eric Dyson. Oh, you're not going to kill Mike talk. No. Like a man they just got. I just I just wanted words to say to me. My thing is just knowing what I'm talking about, I can't be, you know, I mean, some people are blessed to be educated and be able to just spit that like some of these rap, like Jay-Z is just very intelligent and you just put it out there.


I just want to have a problem understanding the thing. Right. And even when we go back talking about religion, I remember when I started doing personal Bible study with one of the brothers in the kingdom, all you to my mom house to do personal study with me. And I started to read the Bible for myself. A lot of it just didn't make sense. I could say Adam, the first man, he was the first woman they had came.


They had Abel Cain killed Abel and goes off and finds a wife who four people on the planet.


So I'm in my room and it's just like I remember I remember reading Deuteronomy fourteen eight, I think being around me. Fourteen, they said you should not touch the flesh of a dead pig. Let's eat it.


And remember asking the brother about it from the start. We love milk. He's like, well, if you pray over the food, you know, it's cool. It's good. I'm like the Bible said, don't have sex before marriage. So if I prayed with. Wasn't even before, so he couldn't explain that he made the point that no one could really go for it.


But as a teen, you got your fair share of trouble selling drugs, witnessed the shooting, got arrested, had to go to jail, and you sat down for forty one day.


Sort of man had to pack. Yeah. I mean it was I was in high school getting in so much trouble. Right. And like my dad was my dad. My dad is the street. Do you come from that. Like you know my dad had his bouts with alcohol and cocaine but he also was a guy that was good with his hands. So he had his construction business as well, you know, mean so he had kind of like that balance.


But he knew that the lifestyle I was living, he would always say, you're going to end up in jail, dead broke sitting under the tree. That was his thing to me.


And so when I started getting in so much trouble in school, I got kicked out of two schools and I kicked out of Berkeley High School. And what kind of trouble was it, though? Like disruption?


OK, I mean, you in class, you cutting up in class class clown fighting, just doing dumb dumb shit. And so then they transferred me to scrap because that's what my mom went to school.


And it's just like that was around 16, 17 years. And then you start dabbling into other things. You know, you see your boys selling weed, boy selling a little dope and you're like, well, let me get in the day.


We try to figure it out, you know?


And then I'm just the guy who hung around those guys for a while before I got involved. But the first time I went to jail, one of my homeboys shot at somebody and, you know, that whole no snitching thing.


So when they come to pick us up like, all right, everybody, everybody got hit with a it was assault and battery with intent to kill George. Everybody got everybody. Were you at that age, I think 16, 17.


They came and got me from high school and I was either repeating 10th grade anti-immigration, therefore I wouldn't be in 11th grade. So they were looking at eleventh grade class of two thousand. And they agree to disagree with you that I was repeating to grade. I got the hospital, I feel ninth grade. They went to some school, passed the tenth, they failed. And when I feel like them, I think my pops is like now you stand in, pulled the graduate ninety six.


I graduated in ninety eight and told me, OK, yeah, I'm just regular Jackson. He checked that in like tenth grade too. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I got to check that. I really checked you graduate high school graduate checked out the way he wanted to use it and you were playing ball. It was all about Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It was all about who hit the ball and the teachers were cool with it. Oh yeah.


That was cool with it back then.


Not I don't know you got it was part of the plan back they and with it they want to see you make right now they got their own motives.


What was the path that got you going into radio? How did you know that was your calling or did it happen? You wanted it? How did it seem that radio was the first thing that I ever did in my life that felt constructive and positive? Because before that, like I was running the streets the first time, you know, when you first get out, you've got to get a job. Right? So I worked and just really cool.


Just companies like a warehouse got fire from there. Two weeks that I worked at a flower garden, I worked there for a week. That's with modern day slavery. It was like me and a bunch of Mexicans out there. And I'm like, this ain't for me. So I quit that after a week. And then I don't see modern day slavery that I hate when people comparing things to slavery. But it was it was one for you. It wasn't for me.


Then I worked at a clothing store called Demo on the Mall. I remember a demo and then I did telemarketing. So I was the guy that would call your house and try to sell you ten CDs will be so. And I worked at Taco Bell at one point. She fired me after two weeks. But I'm saying all I have to say, I wanted to do anything except be in the street.


That's it. I did not want to be in charge of the tool as a tool because he was a manager of the manager.


She hired me in five minutes. How much free Taco Bell did you get during that time? Too much. That's why she got fired. Talk about a high school with. But that's why I just wanted to do something positive. And I remember reading this acronym for Peace and it was positive energy activates constantly. So I knew as long as I'm out here doing something positive, things will grow, the ability to grow. And then, like most dudes in the hood, I wanted to rap.


I'm clearly too short to want to play ball. So it's just like the people who I saw on TV that was successful that look like me. We're usually in rap or athletic. I started picking up the pen and writing and I remember being in this recording studio. I met this guy. They will. He will. And he did local radio as the United Jujamcyn Charleton. I just asked him, I said, you actually get into radio. He's like, I went in, I got an internship.


I it was that easy. He was like, yeah, this is nineteen ninety eight in Charleston, South Carolina. And I had to be in college and none of that. And so that's what I did. I was done. Then I got an internship and I just being in that environment like the radio, you know what, to me, watching artists come in and out and be in the context of them, like this is what I want.


OK, so this is what I want to do. When did you come to New York? How were you? Two thousand six came to New York for the first well, not the first time I had been to New York once before. I didn't get on a plane till I was like twenty one years ago. Twenty one. Twenty two years. I remember when I was I remember I came up here because my people never saw Dr Robert Evans, his unblessed.


They had a studio, I mean a record label called Never So Deep, thought it was up here mixing records. And I flew up here with them for one weekend but didn't live up here. I came here two thousand six. And that's because Wendy Williams and her husband, they were looking for a co-host. I didn't even know. And I happened to be up here with them for a party. And she invited me on her show. And I was on her show for like twenty, twenty five minutes.


And literally that night they was offering me her co-host slot, like, we can't pay you, we can give you a place to stay.


I'm like, shit, I'm being eight dollars an hour in Columbia, South Carolina right now. Might as well make that move to New York and see what happens. And that's what I did. I worked for her for a year and a half for free.


I was on it was the best and worst time of my life. I learned a lot of sure learned a lot from her just because she's such she's such a great radio personality, such a great media personality.


But I also learned how not to treat people in that position that they you know what I'm saying?


I always say that was the best and the worst experience of my life because they were terrible to people.


You know, you hear that?


And I wonder because I don't know and I don't like to judge, but you hear that about Ellen and how she had to do a make makeshift with her crew behind the scenes because people said they weren't treated right. So it's that kind of stuff used to fly under the radar, but that's just not fly. I know it is a good position to be in, not OK. And once you cause somebody like Ellen out, the only apology is change behavior.


And so now her staff probably getting cost service is going to help you. You need some rose petals being thrown on the floor. They walk all types of stuff because that's the only way that she can rectify it. So you had a learning experience with Wendy which catapulted you a few years later into the Breakfast Club. How did that how did you and John and become together? Well, I got five from Wendy in November of 2008. That was just because, like, the economy was in the toilet.


So, like, everybody was getting fired, like that guy I got fired on November 2nd. And the reason I remember that President Barack Obama became president elect on November 3rd, it's like I finally got me fired like thirty people. So I was cool with that, even though I had too much pride to go collect unemployment. Me my wife was working at the time, so she was holding it down with the bills and stuff. And then my daughter, my first daughter was born June that year, so I was just to stay at home dad.


And then I got put on the radio in Philly, like around me at twenty nine. And so I worked in Philly for like eight, nine months and got fired again. And that time I went home I was like, man, I see this city shitty for me. I'm going back to South Carolina. We all packed up me, my now wife, my first daughter. We went back to school and I stayed there for a year, but.


Prior to that, I always had kept in touch with one man, you know, and Jesmond was the assistant program director at one of five at the time. And he he was the one that kind of like he had bought in. And he had me on the radar and he was telling kind of like Jack, who another mentor of mine, just about us constantly.


And so it literally meant I was in New York for the summer once. And that summer 09, I remember hitting up Jesmond like I'm in town. He was like, come to the station right now. So we I went to the station and when I went to the station, he was like my boss. Kind of like Jackie in here watching your videos all morning. Because me Duvall was doing a little while I was doing the State of the Union, which was like a Web series that we would just talk about topics, you know, just before podcast and as we were doing.


Right. And Cadillac was like, oh, man, we had this whole conversation. He actually asked me about Wendy's husband because I had had a meeting with them before. And when he talked with me and when unbeknownst to me, when we had left the meeting, everybody that worked in that building was like, yo, you cannot hire Charlamagne if Wendy's husband is his manager and that guy is bad news. Right. So I remember him saying to me, is that still your manager?


And I said, no. He said, why? I say it because when I pray to God to take the negativity out of my life, he's not swinging at things.


He's swinging at people that are the embodiment of that negativity. And I'm like, he was like, OK.


And then he was like, how long can you wait for this job? And I'm like this whenever the opportunity presents a start.


And then like I think we started in November that year, I was two years or ten years deep now, right? Yeah. Next month. Next month, we you know, whatever it is they are going to we in November. In November will be to you. Who are some of the most memorable interviews you had from the beginning of the current? And that's that's such a broad question, because I really sat down in front of people that I never thought I'd be sitting in on CNN when I was doing Radio 20 to you.


And I sit back and I think about when I first started, I've sat down with Senator Clinton, Senator Hillary Clinton, Senator, sat down with Minister Farrakhan quite a few times. I sat down with Dick Gregory, you know, Angela Bassett like stuff like that freaks me like I grew up Angela Bassett. Like, I don't know how everybody else feel about me. I'm like I said that with Magic Johnson. Like I said, I got to ask Magic about.


Catching HIV like, you know, me and asking a question that I've always thought about, like when you first got it, you think about every little woman that you've been with throughout your whole life and be like, damn, I bet you the young lady from Sacramento was like, hell, yeah.


You know, says, but this is just like, what is this like those conversations? I never thought I'd be able to ask the stuff I've always thought about with people to them. Right. I mean, so it's just like me, I don't I can't sit here and say which one is more memorable because sitting down with the red state is memorable. Right? You I mean, like sitting down with Nia Long is memorable to me. This is memorable sitting down with the vice president, Joe Biden.


And you don't want that go viral. Like, you know, like all of these people mean something to me in various ways.


Was there a person or time you felt kind of like to him, I just interviewed so-and-so like I feel like I've made it now. Was there a time like a that light came on? When did you feel like you had made it?


No, I stole it. Now, because we live in such a fast paced world, you're only as good as your last time. You have time to sit. So it's just like I'm supposed to just sit back and be cool because Hillary Clinton talked about how personal it's like now what's next? And then later, you know, it's so crazy that week that Hillary Clinton had such a thing with Monday. That Friday with Bernie was some respect on Monday.


So it's just like that's the way it moves the moves just that fast. Like Hillary. Be your biggest interview on a Monday. Literally, that was our biggest interview ever on a Monday and then Friday. No, this is really your biggest, like numbers wise, analytical, analytic. What is your biggest interview ever? So it's just like I don't know.


I don't ever feel like I mean it. I definitely I did get to a place of where I got to that place last December, you know, me just feeling like I'm worthy, like not dealing with imposter syndrome. I feel like I'm right where I'm supposed to be because you need to be you deserve.


Absolutely, sir. But I never felt like I've made it.


Who are some of the people you looked up to in this space or who who have actually mentored you in this space? Oh, man, so many.


I mean, from afar, people like Petey Greene, Petey Greene was don't you know, there's a movie called Talk to Me.


And like Petey is like Petey is what I think every black radio personality should be, you know? And he reminded me so much because he didn't have no formal training like he was a voice in jail, you know, like that's how he basically got discovered and ended up getting put on the radio, you know, so it's just like him, the Tom Joyner little the world, because when it comes to the business of radio, those are the brothers that figured it out early.


You know, they figured out that ownership part of it of the early Steve Harvey, Doug Banks know big boy, Angie Martinez, Wendy Williams like and the beauty of it. These are people some of these people I've actually gotten a chance to get game from right now.


I was circling for three in your circle.


I talked to Angie Martinez. Now often, you know, big boy he works at I hardly meet him, have conversations where he's always giving me game. So it's just like I learn from all of it, you know what I mean?


Because they all paved the way for me to even be doing what I'm doing.


You mentioned ownership, which I love. You've recently teamed up with my heart and created like effect. Can you tell us about. Yeah, the Black Effect podcast network, man. It's like the audio business is booming, you know, and I've been with Breakfast Club for ten years, but I've been doing my own podcast, the brilliant Ideas for like six years, you know, so I had a ten percent ownership stake in a podcast network called Loudspeaker, you know, so I've been watching, you know, just the inner workings of the podcast game from that perspective for a long time.


And then, you know, when you sit back and you start seeing Bill Simmons doing what he's doing with the ringer and you see what Gimblett is doing and you see what Ankur is doing, you see what Boston is doing, you sit back and you're like, well, why?


There's no black network like that.


I mean, you've got these network that have black shows, but was the network that's like majority or black is really paying attention to what's going on in our culture and really know the voices that need to be amplified. It's just like let me let me build that. So that's where my mind has been for like the past three or four years. And I knew my my contract was up in December. I think I put myself in a position to where they would want to negotiate with me.


You know, I think I got a little bit of that didn't cause it black leverage, you know. So I was like, look, man, you know, I don't want to be talent. Like, you know, you already know I'm in this podcast, Beast. I'm going to take this somewhere. So let's figure it out.


Yeah. You know, I love you. And it was it was no hesitation, like literally no hesitation. So we created this whole other company called the Black Podcast Network, a majority owner of along with I Heartiness, enabling me to use their resources and their finances to. Invest in us. And I love it, too, because like we said, with the allocation of the NBA money, they need to be able to work with pillars in those communities.


Absolutely. You're a pillar of our community. Like you said, you're able to use Eyharts resources and all the amazing shit that comes in my heart to help focus on us and help grow us. And, you know, I'm excited to obviously have all the smoke as a partner. Man, I'm so happy that your partner. I remember. I remember when they hit me and it was like, yo, we might have a chance to partner with all the smoke.


I'm like, do it. Like, I'm like, do we give them whatever they want to me?


And it was like saying, hey, black leverage, because y'all got no hope. They can't front on you. They can't tell y'all with the they think you should get the numbers don't like the market value and you got to meet that. And no, we know we were like appreciate it man. Like I said, we obviously showtime shout out showtime. So yeah I heard them. Black Flag. We're proud to be a part of that family, too.


Know you and I talk once a week on just strategizing how that was the first thing I told when we got over that was like, I want to help you really grow this shit. Like, you know, I'm not just a talking head on a podcast, like less like they put someone in control. Now that really has a pulse for our culture. So that made me excited like that gave me hope, like, OK, here we come.


And I had another day. I was like, what do you think about a black master? And he's like, shit, that's what we try to. That's what you just said him. You call him the black business. Bruce Billson. Yeah, it was about the cash. I like Bill did.


I told I told him, like, that's what I see all the smoke eventually be.


He wants us to give us a little let me tell you, I want to see all the smoke I have all the smoke needs its network, that's all. They just rolling out those voices in sports that I like y'all, you know what I'm saying? Like this it it only y'all know that only Matt and Steven know who those other voices are that I like all those guys that I cut from that cloth Attracta. Absolutely like that's that's that's why this show works plenty.


Sports guys have gotten together and done shows. We never seen sports from a real nigga perspective right now. Just the truth to the red.


I've also liked that you've been for a while, like you said, you've had your podcast, you've dabbled in TV productions, you have the emerging Hollywood on YouTube. One thing that I thought was really dope, though, because you've we've been here in your growth and your evolution as as not only a black man, but a businessman as well. But one thing that touched me was the the the the Wi-Fi situation that you provided was I was in Columbia, Columbia, South Carolina.


Talk to us about that, because that's just like that was so dope. Yeah.


My man, Stephen Benjamin, Steve Benjamin, black man in Columbia, South Carolina. That's why local politics is so important, because I can't pick up the phone and get to the president. But I'm from South Carolina. I've lived in Columbia. My wife went to the University of South Carolina. I can pick up the phone and hit my Steve. And it's just a matter of like what? What does the city need right now? Because I usually do a book bag drive every year, and I've been doing that for years in my hometown amongst corn.


But that just didn't feel right this year. So I just reached out to Steve and he was like, man, that's so I'm so happy you hit me.


And he introduced me to this company called Ignite Cities and basically would ignite cities is doing is making sure that people have Wi-Fi in these various areas, you know, and it was just like, oh, this is how much it's going to cost and they can make it happen. I'm like, that's easy, you know?


So now that I did it, it got it gets the ball rolling on the city and then you look kind of crazy, like someone came, got our citizens to do us. So now the next round they got to hand to them.


So it's just like, you know, that's why I don't really like to talk about things like that. But I realize it's just like why people stunt people and they get inspired. When you see somebody with a car that you want, you don't want that. You see somebody with a chain like, oh, I want to do that. Now, like I said, the fact that I saw you do that, I was going to ask you how, because I want to get to the poor people to understand, like we're in a new I mean, I have kids and we're old school and that shit is terrible.


But I couldn't imagine if my kids couldn't get online and get their schoolwork done, you know? Would you say you saw kids trying to take wi fi from Taco Bell and they're sitting right next to talk about the article I read. And it was these kids, they was literally doing their homework.


And I was sitting there and Steven had already already told me about it. Benjamin So when when I read the article and he told me that man, we got this Asef right. I need to I'm trying to do that in Sacramento, too, so I need to get that info. I'm going to talk about how important has it been for you in your journey? Like I said, I'm just saying your praises. But how important has it been for you to empower the black voice, not only in your space, but in the athletic space, in the politics space and the community space?


That's all I care about.


Like, if I was an NBA player, I would definitely want to lead the league in assists more than scoring points. That's all I care about. Like literally like I've always, regardless of what platform I was on, whether it was Breakfast Club, whether it was my podcast, whether it was the show that was going on, Viacom, like uncommon sense. Like I always want to give everybody else an opportunity to make it. I feel like that's how you live forever.


Eventually your star is going to turn out. Eventually people are get tired of seeing you front and center all the time. So what keeps you alive? You look at who you open the door for. When I look at guys like Jay-Z, like look at all the fruit of Jay-Z Street.


Dre, no. Rihanna. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Kanye J. Cole. Like a great.


Yeah, that's not person who got fruit right from a tree, you know, to me like I want to be that like you want to be that guy that you empowered. But you're doing it in a deep space though too. You're doing it in a new space. Music has been and they've had their struggles, don't get me wrong. And they've been able to do it. But you're in this multimedia space that has has been and still is dominated by a certain culture.


So I just want to do it for the things that I know I'm good at.


Like I'm good. I'm good in the book world, you know what I'm saying? So being that I'm good in those pieces, I can provide opportunities in those spaces.


Right. So this interview has been described to me. This has been the most smooth interview we've done just on everything thing it's been. Yeah. Is flowing even split in. A couple of questions for you. He was still in it.


We're coming to the end. It's driven by quick as fuck top five hip hop albums in your minds before you start.


Good trouble. Eight songs. I'm driving on George for a birthday. I'm listening to your little trouble. OK, who? I know you've got your eye on just me on it. Oh, ok. OK, so that's all we've got to show top five.


Yeah we can do, we can even do albums ok. We can do artists. It's easy for me to do artists to artists and I really do have a target of top selling. I'm here. My top seven is Jay-Z.


Number one, he, he, he probably means the most.


Ghostface is my. Favorite rapper of all time, but Jay-Z is probably the most important rebel of all time to me, right?


This Coffey's love face to Jeezy kill like in in Nas, that's my that's my top seven.


And I can go listen to any of the albums at any given time and B, be content.


Who's yours. My top five. Seven of the top five or seven.


I'm going park Jay-Z face Nas Bombi.


Yeah. Buncombe one. We forget about buying only because he was part of a group like you named by name groups. Yeah. I'm putting, you know, forget about how Colbung is.


Yeah. I got part. I got Jay. I got snow. I'm about to say you've got too much, you listen to Dnipro, you've got to love New York. I love it. I love that that that that legacy. That's what you call a stolen legacy so far. I see. I see. I got my brother always put me on the music. So when I was coming to L.A. in two thousand nine ten, he said, you've got to listen to me.


Like he's just he's gonna fuck with them. So I started listening to his shit and instantly fell in love. And then I came to the Lakers the next season. So I hit him on the dam and he went right back up. I go to the Lakers with UCLA, come to a game, came to a game and just hit it off with him. I mean, it's genuine down to earth. And then I've seen him evolve from when he was riding around a little shows and I'd be following them to the shows.


We'd be upstairs. I've been with a bunch of six upstairs on the Lakers smoke and we like them. Is that from the Lakers backdoor smoking?


We need a means to be able to see his elevation from when I when I when I learned on him in 09 to when he left us with like you said, that was a star shot down early. I'm saying with my homegirl Devin Brown, she was doing radio in L.A. days when I used to go out that she used to put me on all the new rappers. So it was Kendrick. It was Nipsy with glasses. Malone and I remember hearing that bulletin got my name.


I was like, got go.


Right. But his evolution to the content in which he rapped, he rapped about his involvement in his evolution. If she was, you already do every project, your mailbox money up until a victory lap. And that was what to think about. That was his first album. No Victory Lap was his first. I mean, he obviously he has if you know his history, he's got his history. But that was just his that was number one.


And it was called victory lap. I think about that. Your first debut album on a major label, which ended up being your last album is called Victory Lap. Like it's almost like some foreshadowing, some shit like man.


He said to Parker's generation, we got to ask him a question to get an accent, I guess. So who do you think should be on our show next? But will you ask the question? You've got to be somebody. You can help us get on here. Just let everybody know. He said Jay-Z.


I gave you all the smoke. Would you fire? I want to see Shaq on him. For some reason. I just happen with Shaq, Shaq, even motherfucking Hollywood in this role. We hit you last year. You said he was coming the jacket. You said he was coming. Then you disappear to start doing all these motherfucking commercials. I just talked to them last week, though. He gave me his new number. He said it's only as soon as the playoffs over playoffs are about to be over.


We know you know, you got to go to all these banks, make all these deposits because you're getting all this money.


But, you know, just like the top us, you know, I want to see Shaq on here because Shaq got he got some real nigga he suppressed. Oh, man. You know what? It's only because it's what is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think if he get around, y'all will go to me, I'll text message. OK, he was one of the craziest team I can't wait to talk about man. The shit he used to do in the locker room.


If he talks about it, it's going to blow people away. That motherfucker with a seven foot to three hundred and sixty pound kid like me. He's funny as a mother. The inside info that y'all have that people don't have with in the locker room with Shaq doing shit for the conversations that different. That's why even if you watch a show like Drink Champ with no right to read, nor you can talk to these guys the way he does their role with them inside information, that's what I was saying.


Well, that's because we've been there. We felt every emotion we've been doing. So I like that. Shaq, my dinner guests, dead or alive. Oh, man. The Honorable Elijah Muhammad, Martin Luther King Junior pot.


Gnip. And who my angel, considering the climate we're in right now, one book you would recommend for people to read well for black people are just in general, I tell everybody. I mean, you've got to if you've never read a message to the Black Man by Elijah Muhammad, that's an amazing book for every black man on this planet to read. You know what I mean? Because there's so many different life lessons that we can apply to what's going on now, from college to politics to diet, to me, to my friends, everything is like the Honorable Elijah Muhammad was 80 years ahead of everybody when he wrote that book.


On the flip side, people who are trying to align with this book, you would recommend for them to read or understand us honestly, to understand this man.


I think the autobiography of Malcolm X and the reason I say the autobiography of Malcolm X is because you see what happens when a black man is put in a certain environment. Right. But you also see what happens when a black person is provided an opportunity. Because I always say the greatest book about growth and evolution that I've ever read in my life is the autobiography of Malcolm X, Malcolm Little going to Malcolm X. And I think that's one thing people don't understand about the Nation of Islam.


They provide that opportunity for black people that America is not. You know what I'm saying? They provide those tools and those resources for black people that America is not. And that's how you can get a Malcolm Little to turn into a model, because that's how you can get a Cassius Clay to turn to Muhammad Ali, you know?


I mean, so it's just like I think that is why people read that book. They would understand that black people aren't inherently evil.


You know, I mean, this system put us in a fucked up position.


And in order for this system to really atone for it, since it's got to provide things for us to get us out, for instance, we know that's not going to happen. We will have to do it ourselves. All right. Last question. Who is your one figure you look up to? There are a lot for sure. Definitely. What's your question?


Explain yours and then I'll I'll give you mine, Jazy, for me. And you're so crazy. When I when I first listen to Jay-Z, I didn't I didn't like you only because, like, you know, I come from the south.


I was into, like, the gritty, grimy stuff. It was just like I was talking about so much money and all that Big Willie, like, I don't hate it, but the reason I look up to him is because it's just like watching his evolution from a come on in the game as a rapper entrepreneur.


But the things he used to talk about to all to always and I say always, always showing that's where he's at in his life. If you listen to every day, you could tell exactly where he was at in his life. He went from the player who was kicking girls out at six in the morning to now being the husband, family man, going to therapy. And if you've ever had the pleasure of just being up at Rock Nation is just like that's what you would want your company to look like.


It's his family and this is his long time. Yeah.


He's really like the blueprint, you know, and the way he just quietly shows up for his people all the time, like and has been doing it for all the ten years. We just getting hip to all of the things that that he's done. But it's just like when I look at him, he's just a good representation of what I think a black man is like. You know, you dealt the worst team. You make you make that you make the best of that hand.


You would become a billionaire, but you take your people with you every step of the way.


The people that are willing to grow what you do are the ones that I will know what you meant. It ain't meant for everybody, but the ones that that are that are willing to grow with you. And that's supposed to be the they still which and he represents that that to me, just to answer your question, I guess I look at it different, you know, to be able to play as long as I play in the NBA, my transition into this space, there's people I look up to.


So he's one of them. Stephen Smith is one of them. Michael Strahan, who is to me the ultimate because he was able to cross from professional athlete to sports, but then to mainstream media, too. And that's what I really want to do. Like I love sports, but I want to transition into real life.


And then Kevin Frazier, Kevin or Kevin is Kevin's helped me in this post.


You told me one I didn't know any more. Yeah, well, Jack surprised me. I wasn't ready for my own question.


Yours. I think the only person I look up to is my little brother. But the simple fact that I wanted to be that guy that dated one woman, two high school kids by working one family, doing everything the right way, I got kids all over the place. Know, I'm saying that's because you're allergic to condoms.


So that's not that that's not what it was. That's not true. But but seriously. No, no, I honestly look up to my little brother because he's done everything the right way. Obviously, one of my life, he wanted to play basketball, but it didn't work out for him. But his life and the way the man he is and how he takes care of our whole family when anybody call he therefore that's the best.


Man, I really want to shout out to snap our live shots and we got some twins who are the same age. I got twins and that's crazy. You say that about because it's God that I've and I'm totally faithful to my wife. Now, I'm in favor for four years since October 2016. But how long you've been with her?


I like it. You got to start somewhere. You gave me a date with Jack that Israel is like, yeah, we do look up to these guys that are faithful to the women early on, you know, like I didn't have that kind of discipline because you know how tough it is.


You know how tough it is. I admire anybody, the kids, because I've never been perfect when it comes to that. That's that's a hard have options, though. That's another.


Well, I just I just think he understood what he wanted with his life at a young age. You know, I'm saying like being seeing my grandmother, my grandfather being together for so long, you know, saying my mom, you know, she was just dedicated. I like to us is certain things that triggered him to do things the right way. He was around me. He seen me doing all this stuff. You see women around me. He was just so focused on doing things the right way.


And that's what I wanted. But I was distracted by other shit.


Yeah. I didn't want to do my household the way my father and I love my pops. And I didn't want to do my household when I saw him do his house. I mean, you know, he got caught with Dick in the dirt. He still with the same woman. So clearly that was meant to be right. But my mom got divorced and that kind of like to me, left the family up.


Right. So I just I didn't want to do that in my house, you know? Well, that's a wrap. Shala, baby, we appreciate your time. Thank you. Great show. They've been waiting on by man. Thank you for having me. That's a wrap. All the smoke. You can find this on Showtime. Basketball, You Tube in the Ihara family. Black Effect's. Yes.


And all the smoke network coming soon. Oh, so lucky you bitch you out, Snoop.


This is all a smoke, a production of the Black Effect and I heart radio in partnership with Showtime.


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