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Hey, everybody. Today on The Charlie Cook Show, we have Tom Fitton from Judicial Watch, who is the nation's leader in voter integrity, mail in voting and so much more. E-mail us your questions for any of the guests that we have on our show, Freedom at Charlie Cook Dotcom. And please consider supporting us at Charlie Cook dot com report when you guys support us at Charlie Cook Dotcom slash support, it helps us more than I can put into words, build the base of support so that we are able to hire more staff due to podcast today, one on the weekends and keep delivering content for you at Charlie Cook dotcom support.


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Hey, everybody, welcome to this episode of The Charlie Cook Show, I'm joined by my friend Tom Fitton, who runs Judicial Watch, one of the most important organizations in the country fighting because no one is above the law. So first, Tom, I want to get in the mail in voting, but can you give me a little update on the lawsuit that you filed with the city of Washington, D.C. when they decided to plaster Black Lives Matter on the street?


If I'm not mistaken, you guys sued to say why can't we have no one is above the law equal justice? Is that right?


Yeah, our motto is because no one is above the law. That's our motto and motivation. We know that sometimes people act as if they're above the law and the city painted are allowed to be painted. Black lives matter and essentially reads Black Lives Matter equals defund the police just outside the White House. And we're like, well, now the streets are a public forum. Let's let's let's paint our slogan. How can you argue with slogan, by the way, because no one is above the law.


Not that we have to justify it. And of course, the left wing mayor of D.C. has been playing games with us and we had to sue in federal court. So now it's a big First Amendment. Civil rights lawsuit against the lefties is not only suppressing our rights, yet a veterans group wanted to do something. They couldn't get it done. You had a pro-life group, a student group will try to do something. They thought they had permission.


Then they said they didn't. And then they drew something on the sidewalk saying about unborn lives matter. They chalk the sidewalk, unborn lives matter. They were arrested. So this is life in our nation's capital. The Great Depression continues and we're fighting it in court. And so what do you think the likelihood of you guys winning in court? Because it just seems so incredible that if you espouse a certain left wing dogmatic belief, you're allowed to plaster all over the city.


But it's not a public forum. It seems like it's a political forum.


Well, I believe that the facts and law being followed in the Constitution is being applied. We're going to win. I think the city made a mistake. They they got caught up in the moment of this propaganda effort early on in this ideological statement about Black Lives Matter and defund the police. And then when cooler heads prevailed, like Judicial Watch comes in and says, hey, look what's going on here. Can't we do this, too? They they realized they had made a mistake.


Now they're now they're stuck with an awful legal situation. And I think we're going to successfully push back on. But who knows?


You know, that's a Judicial Watch is all about. So let's talk about mail in voting and make some sense of this mail and voting controversy. The New York Post published an unbelievable article that if, again, if this was beneficial at all to Republicans or conservatives, the idea of talking about voter fraud, the left would this would be the number one story on the planet, said Confessions of a Voter Fraud. I was a master at fixing mail in ballots.


I don't know if you saw this article, not by John Levine. A top Democratic operative says voter fraud, especially with mail in ballots, is no myth. And he knows this because he's been doing it on a grand scale for decades now. Why this guy is not in federal prison. Maybe he is. I might have missed that part is beyond me. Can you talk about just first and foremost, is voter fraud real? Oh, of course it's real.


People cheat. They cheat on everything. People cheated solitaire, so why wouldn't they cheat on elections? And, of course, it's happened throughout our nation's history. There was a story a few weeks ago, an interesting piece of history. I didn't know Abraham Lincoln was the victim of a mail in ballot fraud scheme run out of New York. So this is nothing new under the sun. You know, this is a quote, by the way, I'm going to surprise you.


Who wrote it? Blank ballots mailed might get intercepted. Citizens who vote at home, nursing homes, workplace or in a church are more susceptible to pressure, overt and subtle or to intimidation. Vote buying schemes are far more difficult to detect when citizens vote by mail. Who am I quoting? Former President Jimmy Carter and former Republican maven James Baker, I guess, who was Treasury secretary, White House chief of staff under Reagan. Everyone on the left and right always understood voter fraud, absentee absentee ballots, mail in ballots are much more susceptible to voter fraud.


And now, though, because it's become partisan, partisanly convenient for the Democrats, the media has just decided to suppress the common sense notion that when you vote away from the polling place outside the oversight of government officials, campaign poll watchers, you're more susceptible, it's more susceptible to fraud. And right now we're going to be mailing this numbers. Astonishing. Fifty one million ballots to people who haven't asked for them. Forty four million ballot applications to people who haven't asked for them.


And it's a recipe for for not only fraud and chaos if you tie that up with ballot harvesting. But I'm. Equally as fearful that people's votes will be lost, millions potentially vote of voters will be disenfranchised. In the last primary, the most recent primary season, Jacir, five hundred and thirty four thousand ballots were thrown out. So ramp that up to an a to a general election, tsunami of mail in ballots. It's going to break the system.


Of course, you know, I don't even know if it's about voter fraud anymore. I think it's just about breaking the system because it's pretty clear the left, if they don't like the results of the election, they're planning violence. They're planning to go into Congress and threaten secession from the union by certain states in order to get the Electoral College outcome they like. It's not even about voter fraud. It's about chaos in the sense of how is it we make sure that if the election goes the way we don't want it, we can plausibly steal it back.


So but can you can you explain technically how this works so millions of people are getting ballots that they didn't request? I know lots of people that have ballots, dozens of ballots being sent to their house. Is there any mechanism to actually correlate the one ballot to the one voter or they just counted as every other ballot? Because I know. And how is this different than absentee voting? Because that's how the left is making the argument. Well, in some states, they allow you to check to make sure that the ballot is when you mail, it actually correlates counted.


But we know the lists are dirty. We've done an analysis in twenty nineteen. There were hundreds of counties with more people on the rolls and eligible to vote. We know in North Carolina and Pennsylvania who we just recently sued, there are at least nearly two million extra names on the rolls in California. We sued to stop the governor from just mailing to the lists that he knew was dirty. We knew, for instance, in Los Angeles County because they're in the process of removing the names thanks to a settlement with Judicial Watch.


There were one point six million extra names on the rolls, potentially, and he wanted to mail them all and was only stopped because we sued. And of course, that's an indication there are bad names elsewhere and which he's mailing now. But it's just like putting your finger in the dike when you're talking tens of millions of ballots going out. We have to be thinking of ways to stop the ballots from going out because it's going to break the election.


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Well, I mean, just in Michigan on August 4th, primary, Michigan clerks rejected ten thousand six hundred ninety four mail ballots and eight hundred sixty eight hundred forty six of them were not accepted because the voter was dead. Now, think about this, Tom. This means that 864 ballots were filled out by living human beings. They somehow obtained from dead human beings and sent them in. I mean, and that's just that's just one small example. So can you can you answer this question?


Where's the Department of Justice here? Why is the Department of Justice not taking this more seriously? Well, this is another example of AG Barr. He's a great communicator and a great leader on talking about these issues. He had a really fiery discussion with CNN's Wolf Blitzer about it. And but I you know, aren't they cleaning up the rolls? Why aren't they making sure the roles are clean? Judicial Watch is suing to do it. Virtually no help from the Justice Department.


They haven't done any of that. Practically speaking, this new scheme for to mail ballots at the last minute, knowing that millions of ballots may not get to where they're supposed to be, the post office has a delivery rate of about ten ninety ninety one. Ninety two percent for first class mail. That means eight percent of the ballots could be late and never counted at all. Now, of course, the last response to that is what? Oh, well, that's fine.


We'll just count ballots for days and weeks after the election in California. You may not know this 17 days. They plan to count ballots after the election, 17 days. And there's this story in Axios Access magazine or online where the leftists are saying, well, you know, Trump may win on Election Day, but we're going to be counting all those mail in ballots and that will be a landslide for Biden that I mean, they're they're telling us how they're going to steal the election.


And this isn't a partisan issue because I'm concerned Democrats are going to have their votes either stolen or not counted because of this crazed effort to flood the mails with ballots and people relying on the mails. I think that's a trust is misplaced. And I encourage everyone listening to me, whether you're a Democrat, a conservative or a Trump hater, a Trump lover, a Biden lover, a Biden hater, Jill Stein, whoever you want to vote for, vote in person.


It's safe and it's the best way to ensure your vote is counted.


And some people vote absentee, which is a different process. And most states vote by mail, something totally different. It's different because a lot of people are getting ballots they never requested in the absentee. You actually have to apply for it. But to your point, the absentee ballots are usually only one to two percent of all ballots cast. That's very small has to be approved. It's for very specific reasons. Sometimes you have to give a reason as to why you want the absentee ballot like you'll be traveling over the country, won't be in town or you're out of some some other reason.


Right. Or this is something totally different. I mean, the polling place might be open right next door to you and you might get a ballot and say, do I go vote there? Do I do both? And what's the mechanism to show that you don't do both? Well, and I don't know the answer to that, I mean, it's confusing, let's say you want to change your vote or let's say you're not sure if your vote got there and you want to go in there and just vote.


They of you have to figure out what the state law is. This is a mess. And frankly, Charlie, I'm concerned about the absentee ballot process. I've never been a big fan of it. So there's no excuse absentee balloting in too many states. And right now, what the left is trying to do is undermine the Maia's security measures that are in place for absentee ballots. So if you're used to voting perhaps in absentee ballots through absentee ballots, but you otherwise can vote in person, I vote in person.


And, you know, I know Republicans are of two minds on this because they want to get everyone voting any way they can. They want to get votes and they don't want to accede to one side or the other. But that's why you need independent groups like Judicial Watch calling in as we see it. It's it's it's a voting by mail is a menace to free and fair elections. And not only does it encourage voter fraud and ballot harvesting and other illegal intimidatory acts, but it could disenfranchise Americans unnecessarily so.


But what is being done? You guys are suing, but a lot of people ask Charlie, what do I do? Some people actually think Nancy Pelosi is going to become president in January because it's going to take so long for us to count the ballots. I don't know if you think there's any wisdom to this this Internet rumor that has emerged because the system might actually just break beneath itself. But what is being done? I mean, are these state governments fighting up against this?


I mean, just in Clark County, Nevada, more than two hundred twenty three thousand mail in ballots sent to registered voters were bounced as undeliverable. Are Republicans fighting this on a state and federal level enough? Well, the Democratic excuse me, the Republican campaign, the Trump campaign has filed suit in several places successfully, some places successfully not. And the problem is under our constitutional system, that state legislative action, even the even seemingly at the last minute the courts are deferential to.


So it may be that it gets even too late for the states to change the rules. But right now, the left is trying to change the rules to make sure that the security around these absentee ballot programs that are in place are further undermined by allowing it to be counted in a way that just will encourage massive fraud. It's this is the crisis we're facing. Those of us who are concerned about these issues, we have, I think, three or three groups, two or three groups on our side, Charlie, on our side being those who support election integrity, want security, want voter ID, want clean election rolls.


I don't know, maybe we filed five, six, seven lawsuits among all of us. On the other side, you're talking one hundred and sixty lawsuits. Unlimited funding, practically speaking, massive media support, and they're trying to break the system, we're doing our best to stand up against them. And the president has been effective at highlighting the problems with mail in ballots. And so, you know, the Democrats, if they're smart, they're going to encourage people to vote in person, because I think that many people are rightly afraid of mailing in ballots now.


And so they need to start getting their own people to the polls. Indeed, Michelle Obama is backing away from that during the DNC convention. You may recall she talked about voting in person and how important it is to do that and what your what your listeners here can do, become a poll watcher, become a poll worker, apply to work at the polls. Because it's in the counting where the corruption can take place and, you know, if you're a liberal or conservative or whatever, you have a right to become a poll worker.


And we want honest, good people who are going to do their jobs diligently to be at the polls and support other Americans who are going to vote there.


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So the Bloomberg group said the Red Mirage, which I don't know if you saw this or not, on Axios on HBO, where they were bragging about how well, it's probably true that Trump will win on Election Day and will look like he won. But once we count all of our ballots, then we're actually going to see who really wins. So how do people technically do something about this, become an election judge? They just sign up on their local Tom.


We must get thousands of emails a week of people that this is the number one issue in the conservative base right now is mail by voting No. One, I get more questions about it everywhere I go across the country, from Montana to Colorado to Nevada, California, people are deathly worried that the integrity of our system is disappearing, that it's no longer a system that can be trusted. It's no longer a system that is rooted in in fairness. It's now just seems like there is a there's a partiality to it where if you are on the right political side, you are going to benefit from it.


So how does one become an election judge? Is it a simple process? I know. I know how to do it. But what's your experience when you go to the EC?


The outcome of Election Assistance Commission dot gov comma, Paul Walker, just look it up. Google it being whatever you want to do and it will give you to a site and it may even send you to a left wing site. But the left wing site does send you to where you need to apply to become a poll worker in your individual state. And the state's requirements for poll workers are are different per state, but it's available for people to do.


They need the poll workers. We need them. I mean, I think most of your listeners and viewers probably recognize that coronaviruses no bar to voting in person. As we've been pointing out, Nancy, can get her hair blown. You can vote in person. But by gosh, and you should you know, and there are other things you can do. You can become a candidate. You can you can watch for a candidate of your choice, become a poll watcher to state laws vary on that.


So you've got to figure out how to do that. Ask your local U.S. attorney, who's your point man on voter fraud? Who do I talk to? If there are concerns, who can I tell my neighbors to talk to? Ask your local district attorney. Who do I call to report concerns about voter fraud or misconduct? Put them on notice that you want them to be ready to handle this issue if it pops up and then, of course, talk to your members of Congress, because the left doesn't really think about Election Day being one day.


They think of it as weeks, if not months. And as you pointed out, if it's not decided by January 20th because of a fight in the states that goes into Congress, it ultimately approves the electors. Nancy Pelosi becomes acting president, assuming she is the speaker at the time. That's enough motivation for everyone to come become a poll watcher, but at least she'll get her hair done in the White House or something like that. So I want to shift gears in a time we have remaining here, Tom.


It is now early September. You and I talked about two months ago about Bill Barr and about John Durham. Am I missing something? Is there something coming very soon before the election, you and I shared a cynical view of this back a couple couple months ago. Do you think there'll be some indictments to hold these people accountable for what they did to our president?


Or is it going to be just more absolute lawlessness with no justice at all?


Well, I mean, if we're expecting accountability from the Justice Department for Justice Department misconduct and FBI abuse, I don't think I think we're going to be disappointed. They mishandled the plea agreement of the FBI lawyer who pled guilty to changing the document to make Carter Page into a bad guy when in fact, he was a patriot. He pled guilty by saying, well, I made a false statement, but I thought it was true. How's that work? So they had that one plea that was handed to them on a silver platter last year and they screwed it up.


And now, frankly, Charlie, I think it's too late. I don't think there's no technical reason no one else can be indicted or prosecuted. But there's a lot of practical reasons why that's not going to happen, namely the election coming up. And, of course, you know, if anyone is indicted now and they choose to fight it. Boy, what if a Joe Biden comes in housing an attorney general, Sally Yates, or Attorney General Hillary Clinton, how are they going to handle.


This has been a real disappointment, and I've been sorely disappointed in the Justice Department's slow walking this investigation, protecting Hillary Clinton, hiding documents, obstructing Congress. And look, General Flynn is still on the hot seat. And the reason he's on the hot seat is because the Justice Department. And the FBI stonewalled and hid documents from Harry's team for years and and frankly, they haven't been strong enough in trying to hold those responsible, accountable for that misconduct.


So you and I share the same view, it's now early September. The president has differentiated, differed with you, and I know he thinks that indictments are coming and he hasn't said that explicitly, but he said that without saying it a lot of his press conferences that he thinks something is coming. Do you think that he's being lied to by the people around him? Well, I don't know if he said that, I think he's hopeful something's coming.


I maybe I'm wrong, I'm hope I'm wrong, I'm hoping maybe Brennan gets indicted, maybe struck out, and they certainly don't talk and act like they're fearing indictment. I'm not seeing any evidence that there's going to be that there was even a serious investigation of senior level officials. You had bar wall off Biden and Obama seemingly from even being questioned about this, even though they're directly implicated in some of the misconduct in the least their witnesses, don't you think?


Yeah, I mean, though, it's if if Obama inquest's then Durham hasn't done his job.


Yep, and it sure seems that way. So Judicial Watch is fighting on a lot of different fronts. You guys are also suing. You're also involved in some lawsuits of some transparency around Biden and Hunter Biden. Can you comment on any of that regarding Joe Biden and his time and his involvement in some of the spy scandal?


Yeah, I mean, we're not we're not waiting for Durham and we've been doing all this work irrespective of the just part. That's why we're we're an independent group. We don't we don't rely on the justice and we hope they do the right thing. And follow our lead on Hunter Biden. You know, we're just trying to figure out where he was during the Obama Biden administration. We found out he flew four hundred times for Secret Service protection, including twenty nine trips abroad, five trips to China.


And I think there was a trip to Russia, too, but that's even only part of the administration of Obama. What else happened? Where else did he go the last year or two? And we're asking for those documents. Plus, we want things on the firing, the firings in Ukraine. We want to know about the China deal and and things like that. You know, we're getting documents showing still you may have seen them have Donald Trump Jr.


, Rudy Giuliani, Hannity, Lou Dobbs, Laura Ingraham, they're all being monitored by the deep state anti Trump. So what conversations were being listened to or what they were tracking their social media in violation of law?


You're not allowed to monitor the activities of an American citizen. The Privacy Act prohibits it and they were caught doing it. And the State Department in D.C. said you can't do it anymore. And they had that, quote, stopped, but they really didn't stop.


So was this by an embassy in Kiev or something? Is that right or. Yeah, this is our main embassy in Kiev under then Ambassador Ivanovitch. And they were under significant pressure about the Biden corruption and the interference the Ukrainians committed in our elections with in collusion with the Obama gang in the White House at the time.


You know, we're all supposed to forget about why Trump was impeached. He was impeached because he was they were nervous about the questions he was asking about Biden.


And here we are now in September. And no one's talking about how Hunter Biden's son sat on that foreign board. Well, you guys are I'm saying not many people in the activist media are at all now, not even the politicians who sometimes are our friends.


Yes, that's right. That's right. And and the activist media did not cover at all that handy. And Bongino and many others, Ingram run an enemies list within our own government. Yeah, that's that's how it looks at it looks like an enemies list and. You know, and if you work in government for any period of time, you know, you can start investigating citizens and creating reports on their social media or any other public activities without having a lawful basis for doing so and then be critical of you or you.


Being nervous about their commentary on a topic doesn't justify creating the equivalent of an FBI file on them, the State Department version of it, taxpayer funded tax.


Could you imagine if the Trump administration did that against any of the Joe Biden or anyone else? Anything else? So so, Tom, what else are you guys working on in closing here? How could people support you? How can people get behind what you're doing? You have a terrific book that came out called The Republican Assault. How can people support you?


Well, the book's coming out in October, so people should preorder it. Republic under assault. Look up my name, Tom Fitton. Judicial Watch is all over the Internet, Facebook, judicial watchdog. I mean, we have lawsuits on every issue you care about. From abortion to Biden to immigration to election integrity, we're investigating everything, suing about everything, I exaggerate, but pretty much everything. And so if you're concerned about government corruption, you want to join our movement.


And we're the largest, best government watchdog group, not only in the country, but in the world.


I agree. Well, Tom, thank you for the time here on the Charlie Kirk show. I hope that we'll be able to have some good news soon. Maybe some indictments are a victory in November would be nice. The judicial watchdog. Check out Republik under assault. And thanks so much, Tom, for joining The Charlie Cook Show again.


You're welcome. That's Charlie Zeitun. Thank you. What a great conversation that was with Tom Fitton, if you guys want to get involved, a turning point, USA, go to CPUSA, Dotcom, t.P, USA, Dotcom, e-mail us your questions as always at Freedom at Charlie Kirkconnell, Freedom at Charlie Kirk Dotcom. If you guys want to subscribe to the Charlie Kurk show type and Charlie Kaczor, your podcast provider hit Subscribe, give us a five star review, screenshot it and email us Freedom at Charlie Kirkconnell.


Freedom at Charlie Kirkconnell. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. God bless you. Talk to you soon.