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This is the down labor part show with this got Sparkasse. So four years ago this week, four years ago this week, Colin Kaepernick asked peacefully, can you please stop shooting us?

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And the answer has been no, and we've made it about a flag and about the socks that he wears and a shirt that he wears, we've made it about fabrics. And now here we are four years later. And can you please not shoot us is ringing from sea to shining sea and has canceled basketball and now again the conversation becomes about the protest.

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The way you protest. Is wrong, whether it's Kaepernick kneeling in front of a flag or whether it's basketball players ending their season for the moment. It's always wrong the way that you protest. He did it peacefully, the basketball players are now doing it peacefully, it's seeping into everything but hockey, it seeped into baseball. And again, over the last four years, what you've heard is 10 Black Lives Matter, and the answer is some form of no from the highest forms of government.

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Right. Because you've got it. You've got in the single worst interview, a president, an American president has done in or out of office with Axios. Donald Trump couldn't get out of his mouth. The words to praise John Lewis, a civil rights activist who was dead and just kept pointing out again. Again, he didn't come to my inauguration. The dehumanizing of these people, as in Kenny Smith, they walk off a set in Robert Orey and Chris Webber, they're crying while talking to you, you could hear the pain in Doc Rivers voice and they come from the highest level of black power.

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And fame. And you hear the heartbreak in their voice as they talk and I don't know how to humanize this for the audience listening right now, who wants to argue about whether the protest is the right way to do it or not? When they talk to their kids and are simply afraid, they break down on television. Robert, the biggest, strongest, fastest among us. Who got they break down on television. Chris Webber talking about the fear they have, trying to explain to their children what it is to be black in America and how to take disrespect from police officers.

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Eat disrespect because you can come home as opposed to. Raising a hand in a way that's going to make you threatening simply because you're black. So here we are with the juxtaposition, because it's not enough to shoot a black man seven times in the back and at best leave him paralyzed in front of his loved ones in front of his kids. We will play some sound from his sister telling you what it is to be black in America these days. But to many of you and I don't get this part, I just simply don't get it.

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I don't think I'll live long enough to get it, so who got these people writing these things on social media? And I know some of them are bots and some of them are trolls. And I don't even understand the computerization of hate that has resulted in a bunch of people with zero followers, one follower, two followers, just starting these divisions at every turn.

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And some of them mean exactly what it is they're saying.

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So I don't I'll never understand this reaction to what it is that happened yesterday. Historic heart breaking. I get no joy from that. I know many of you think that, like, I'm rooting for all of this anarchy. I've got a low level depression on me for months. Most of us do have a low level depression on us because of everything that's not normal around us. And having these guys crying on television and seeing these videos and seeing it juxtaposed with a 17 year old with a gun bigger than he is crossing state lines seemingly aided by our police.

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While this is happening because he's white, he just walks past police officers after having killed with his hands up in the drive right past him because he's not the threat after having killed. This is the tweet you get, and this is the part I don't understand, the NBA players have been given their biggest opportunity to promote their causes in this bubble and are walking out on that due to the actions of a violent criminal who wouldn't listen to police. Wrong way to bring about change.

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Take away the national sports platform and you take away any voice they have. Why is it always the wrong way to bring about change? I'll tell you the wrong way to bring about change the ways we've been trying. Why is it always the wrong way to bring around change? Like why do we always get caught? And I don't like the way that message is being delivered when the message is meant to make you uncomfortable. It's the entire point of the message.

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But that's a great point. Everything that they've tried in terms of protesting has not worked. I mean, nothing's worked.

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Please stop shooting us. It's not an unreasonable request like you can go through criminal records, you could say all the things you want to say to this instance that makes it different, that he was a threat. There was a knife in the car. What about criminal history? The same rinse, repeat things you always go to that make it somehow OK to say no to. Can you please stop shooting us seven times in the back, please? We'll kneel in front of a flag.

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We'll walk out of a bubble. Sometimes cities will end up burning, but I'm telling you, Stuart, when that juxtaposition is put in front of you, of you watch a video guy shot seven times in the back in front of his family and we'll get to the sound. From his sister in a moment, but then you perret next to this video of this kid who's 17 crossing state lines to protect property with a gun bigger than he is after having killed walking past police officers with his hands up and they drive past him to a more reasonable threat.

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When you put those things together, you get these champion giants crying on television because how could they not? How could Chris Webber and Robert Orey and Kenny Smith not be heartbroken by what it is that they're saying? You've heard me say before what they see happening. You've heard me say before. You got that Bill Russell walks with a limp, Jim Brown walks with a cane. Kareem Abdul Jabbar is really old. Muhammad Ali has died. We are in a modern day civil rights movement.

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It has not been since the 1960s that we saw athletes. Doing what it is that they are doing now, and I just don't understand how you could see what basketball players did yesterday and criticize them for caring, criticize them for taking away your precious distractions and your precious entertainment while you call them selfish because you have your precious distraction and your entertainment taken away. Let's play the sound of Jacob Blake's sister, La Tetra Wildeman, explaining to you just a numbness that she has about her brother being shot seven times in the back and paralyzed.

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I am my brother's keeper. And when you say the name Jacob Blake, make sure you say father. Make sure you say cousin. Make sure you say son. Make sure you say uncle. But most importantly, make sure you say human human life. Let it marinate in your mouth and your. A human life, just like every single one of y'all. And everywhere I Wasilla where human. His life matters. So many people have reached out to me telling me they're sorry that this happened to my family.

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Well, don't be sorry because this has been happening to my family for a long time, longer than I can account for. It happened to me, to Emmett Till is my family, Falardeau, Mike Brown, Sandra, this has been happening to my family and I shed tears for every single one of these people that has happened to me. This is nothing new. I'm not sad. I'm not sorry. I'm angry and I'm tired. I haven't cried one time.

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I stopped crying years ago. I am numb. I have been watching police murder people that look like me for years. I'm also a black history minor. So not only have I been watching it and the thirty years that I've been on this planet, but I've been watching it for years before we were even alive. I'm not saying I don't want your pity, I want change, I feel like we probably should have edited out the distracting, you know, sounds that you heard in the middle of that.

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But we did not. Stan Van Gundy will join us at Ten Thirty Eastern. Stan Van Gundy going to join us in about 12 minutes on the show, Pennzoil performance lot.

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Yes, Stan, in about 12 minutes. And Sally Jenkins, who wrote something, as she often does, very strong for The Washington Post about everything happening in Washington. I don't know if you have had to climb over the pay pay wall of The Washington Post to read just how dirty and lascivious some of the Washington executive behavior was around their cheerleaders. I know many of you are tired of the social justice causes with your sports. I think it's inevitable that it is.

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It is basically something that is soaking into every aspect of almost everything you're watching in sports right now. And as it comes to the Washington football team, when you have baked into the bread. And I know many of you are going to accuse me of being extra woak here because you're men and you're you're listening to this and you're like, I like my cheerleaders, I like my ring girls. You can't be so woak that you eliminate my ability to ogle the cheerleaders and the ring girls.

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But what ends up happening when that is such an expected, understood objectification? It's not a big leap for the owner of the team to think that cheerleaders are his playthings as well. And so what you have in Washington. Is a situation where a whole lot of women are coming forward and saying, oh, this was contaminated, this was poisoned, what they were doing with the cheerleaders and some of the details, and then you get into the next step on this, which is taggants.

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The argument that you have about cancer culture and the taking of teams away from owners, Mark Cuban objected to the slippery slope of that when it was Donald Sterling. It's the only time we've seen it happen over a social cause. And I would say to you that the only reason it happened with Donald Sterling was not the racism. It's because all the other owners were tired of him. Embarrassing them specifically in the racism was the last drop. And so the NFL here that claims to care about punishing things that stained the shield.

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What's it going to do to Daniel Snyder when it stained the shield this way, when the stain is something that is sexual objectification in a way that's kind of appalling and seems a part of the culture of what it is that you were doing as business. You were entitled to these women because you were the man in power with money. Daniel Snyder must feel the heat of this, given that he was strident before and he's changed the name of his team, given that he hired a black president.

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My guess is he's trying to ward off whatever it is that is coming his way because of these reports. And this reporting is so damning as it relates to the Washington football team. And I genuinely do wonder whether these owners have had enough of Daniel Snyder, because that's the only reason that an owners actually ever going to get gone, because the other guys in the club want him gone. I know Silver gets a lot of credit for coming down hard on the racism.

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The other owners wanted Sterling gone. That was a good enough excuse because he'd done enough bad. I don't think that you have that situation in in the NFL. And I would say to you, if you really care about women and it's not just about putting pink on your field when it suits you, if you really care about women, you might want to look into what's going on in Washington and make that punitive because the reporting is really damning. You do wonder where he stands with the other owners in terms of do you know, do they like him?

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Do they want him out of the club? It is important to point out, I think, that Daniel Snyder is denying all the direct allegations coming his way from a lot of these stories. Of course, an awful lot of women, often out of women.

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Stan Van Gundy is going to join us next. And finally, Disney World is the second largest purchaser of explosives in the United States, surprised Disney is second, considering how badly the art of the art of conversation bombed. Oh, wow.

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Oh, Gumbleton, because I don't know why it was a stumble, but it was making fun of me.

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So they cancel each other out, right.

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Wow. Mistake. Bad mistake. Your worst mistake since you started with us, but a great shot at. And we're even stumbled on the punch line, though.

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I think I think Christine failed there. You want to try it again? Let's do it again. Let's do it again. We could see the whole thing on top of them.

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All right. And finally, Disney World is the second largest purchaser of explosives in the United States. Surprised Disney is second, considering how badly the art of conversation bombed. You know what?

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I think that's a reach. I think. I think that joke doesn't even war. Your lasted two episodes.

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I mean, that's true. I just think as a joke, it doesn't quite work. But thank you, Christine, for your your cruelty and your meanness.

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A stand. Can you help me out here with everything that's happening? Go ahead, Chris. I'm sorry I ruined it because Mike was pointing to you and I didn't know what he was pointing out because he was just pointing to a corner of the room.

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I'm going to say the joke bombs because nobody's ever heard of the art of conversation.

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Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm glad I went to it. Stan Van Gundy with us on ESPN Radio every day. And wait a minute. Hold on, hold on. Before we get into this, I have a question for Christine. OK, yeah, I know the job market is tough. What are you telling me? This is the best you could do for a job working with these?

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Oh, for the love of God and I and a woman.

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I know the economy has gone south, but come on. OK, listen, there's a pandemic going on and people have to make compromises. Stan Van Gundy is the star of the big one. Right. OK, knock it off. And I've had about enough of this.

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Didn't stop you from doing it, but he's the star of the bubble, TNT, TBS. And I'm curious what you make of the reaction to the the guys protesting, the NBA players protesting. What was your reaction to the reaction? Not because I know you're supporting the players. Well, I mean, the reaction is sort of all over the place. I mean, I think it depends on what you're talking about. I think there's a lot of people who are very proud of what they did.

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You know, that. Listen, here's the thing is they have cut criticism a little bit on both sides. So there's the shut up and dribble crowd who doesn't think they should have been kneeling and doesn't think they should be, you know, taking this action not to play. But then there's also people who think they're not doing enough. This is just symbolic. You're not doing anything. So they're catching it on both sides. And to me, it's unfair both ways.

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I mean, these are young people. Who are seeing problems, they are taking action, trying to do things, draw attention to the issue and even trying to find solutions and a lot of initiatives that they're supporting and they're frustrated, and yet they haven't yet figured out the best way to do this. I mean, my question to the people, I have two questions for the people who are criticizing them. And no one is what's your solution then?

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And number two is what are you doing? Because these guys are trying and I think they should be commended. And I understand the frustration they feel with what they're doing. Work really bring change. I don't know. There's a lot of people out there working, trying to bring change. And if there were good or easy answers to this, we'd already have these things solved. So I applaud them in trying to figure it out. I think they'll meet today and try to figure out their best path forward.

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And there's a lot of things to consider. But all respect to the players for what they're trying to do, stand, what would you like to see them do next? You know, that's an interesting question, because I don't know the answer either. I mean, I think in one way they they have a bigger platform while they're playing. But is that platform the best way to achieve change or could they be home in their cities working with grassroots organizations there where maybe their presence brings more people into the fold and maybe those protests have more of an impact on local leaders?

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I think that's some of the things the players are trying to figure out right now, is the way they can have the most impact. And that's why I respect what they're doing. I really do think that's their decision. They want to impact the situation and they're trying to figure out the best way to do it. And I'm not sure anybody can say for sure what the best way is. You said what you would ask the shut up and dribble people, but what do you make of the shut up and dribble people like what's happening there?

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Well, look, I mean, there's I think in all of us at times, whatever the issues are, and it's different for different people, all too often our answer is we just want to go into denial. And so I think there's the crowd that wants to think everything is great in this country and there's no problem with racial oppression and things like that. And when they sit down to escape or have fun in their world and watch a game, they don't want to be confronted with an uncomfortable reality.

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They just want to live in their world where they can enjoy the basketball and not have to face the issues. That's what I think is going on. And, you know, there's there's a lot of denial out there on a lot of different things. But certainly when it comes to race, I think a lot of a lot of people of my skin color are very uncomfortable talking about it and they don't want it thrown in their face. You reacted to an NPR report.

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The alleged Kenosha shooter, a 17 year old Blue Lives Matter supporter, described himself as a member of a local militia who went to the city to assist police, according to videos posted on social media. You reacted with there are no blue lives. There are no blue people. Being a police officer is the job they chose. It is a public job paid for by us. It is the civic responsibility of the people to hold public officials accountable. Protesting against police brutality is not hating police as it regards the division that we have in this country about the police.

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What does Stan Van Gundy need people to know on that front? Well, first, yeah, what I wanted people to know, what I was trying to say there is I think too often we get, you know, forced into these false choices where at least people try to force us into, you know, are you for the protesters or are you for the police? Well, that's not the issue. The issue is we have a real problem here in our criminal justice system from policing through the courts and the prisons and everything else in terms of the way that black people are disproportionately discriminated against.

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And that's the issue. And so. I want to have that issue addressed, that doesn't mean I hate police officers, but this idea that police officers can't be held accountable and people think they have a hard job. Yes, they do. They they chose it. Nobody chose to be black. That's their skin color. And they're they're being discriminated against and victims of police brutality and victims of racial oppression because of the color of your skin. Police are being criticized for the actions of some in a job.

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They show there's no equivalency there whatsoever and they chose the job. And here's the reality. When you are in any public job, I don't care if you're an elected official or you're a police officer or anything else. We pay for it. We pay for it. And we not only have the right but the responsibility to hold you accountable. And if you're uncomfortable with that being held accountable, then find another job. We come back with Stan Van Gundy after this.

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ESPN Radio is presented by Progressive Insurance, check out ESPN audio at home by telling Alexa to play news from ESPN. ESPN audio at home is brought to you by Mercedes Benz Van Driver, Mercedes Benz van. And find out how far an extra really goes from customization in service to financial assistance. Mercedes Benz vans.

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Sid Rosenberg writes on Twitter, When phonies like King James and Doc Rivers address the black on black murder rate in Chicago in particular, maybe they'll enjoy a little credibility. Right now, they're concentrating on a minor number of killings and inciting more divisiveness and hate. Libertador show, as well as Stan Van Gundy with. What do you say to the people who say, Stan, what about Chicago? What about China? There's a lot of what about Azem going on instead of addressing the thing that the black players in the NBA are asking you to look at, which is police brutality, please stop shooting us.

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Yeah, well, I would say two things, I would say, first, the NBA players have addressed the situation in Chicago in particular. You know, Dwayne Wade talked about it last year at the All-Star Game, I believe. I mean, you know, they have talked about it extensively, especially those guys from Chicago. So I would say, number one, that's true. Number two, I would say not everybody's going to speak out on every issue, you know, I mean, they're they're talking about one particular issue now because they're not speaking out on women's rights or LGBTQ rights right now.

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That means the points they're making on other things aren't valid. That's absolutely absurd. The third thing I'd say is I am really, really happy to find out. There's so many people out there concerned about human rights in China. I really had not noticed that groundswell until the NBA players had started speaking out about police brutality. So I think in that way, the NBA players have been leaders in that they've gotten a lot of these people maybe not interested in police brutality, but very interested in human rights in China.

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So the people in China can thank them for that.

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But look, here's the here's the issue. The one that gets me all the time is that people don't see a difference between civilians killing civilians, whether it's black on black, white on white, whatever it is, people kill each other. And we know that happens every day. And it's a problem in America, Quine, that we continually need to work on, but we don't see any people don't see any difference in that. And even police officers who are public officials sworn to serve and protect killing people unnecessarily.

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Yes, there's fewer of those cases than there are of gang violence in Chicago. We know that. Of course, these are public officials. These are people we're paying, these people who took an oath to serve and protect, and they're killing black people. That's the difference. And if people aren't smart enough to understand that difference, then I really I don't know what else to do for them to understand. And that's why it's painful and that's what people need to understand.

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Those are the people, the police that are out there supposedly to protect people and they're killing people. If they're going to kill your people, then how are you ever going to feel safe?

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Stan Van Gundy with us here on ESPN Radio Stand. What role should the owners play in terms of supporting their players? It's always hard when you get into, you know, what people should do. You know, I would love to see the owners take a big role, I mean, they all they all, you know. Promise to chip in a million dollars a year, so 30 million as a group for 10 years. So three hundred million dollars for causes to help black communities around the country.

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I think the players now, you know, would like them to do even more. And the reason is this. These guys are billionaires, most of them, and they have the ear of any elected official that they want to have the ear of and can have tremendous influence. I mean, Steve Ballmer obviously can get on the phone with Gavin Newsom whenever he wants. Jim Dolan can get on the phone with Andrew Cuomo in New York. You know, the divorce family or Micky Arison can get on the phone with Ron T.S.A. and with, you know, congressional leaders and things, and they can apply leverage.

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Money is leverage in this country. Money is certainly leverage in our political system. And so if those people would truly get on board the owners with advocating for positions that are important to players, certainly they could make a difference. Will they? And are they willing to go that far? I don't know. And I would stop short of myself of saying that they should do anything. I think these are things where, you know, people have to make decisions on where they stand on issues and and what they're going to get involved in.

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But I think the players are right in asking them because they know that the owners can have far more influence on the issues than the players themselves can.

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Less than 90 seconds here, Stan, from all the reaction you saw Doc Rivers being heartbroken, Chris Webber breaking down, talking about this, Kenny Smith walking off the set. Robert orig crying while talking about trying to explain some of this to his teenage kids. What moved you the most among those? Wow, it's hard to say because they were all great, I mean, I would say Chris Webber last night, I was really sort of caught off guard to hear Chris's comment.

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Maybe because I had Doc was great, too, but I've heard Doc more, so maybe that was it. But I just thought Chris was outstanding. I thought it was raw. I thought it was genuine and very moving. My wife said it brought her to tears. I heard that from two or three other people. But I think now is the time that everyone should be listening to all those people and more. I mean, now's the time to be listening to black voices and trying to truly understand what they're saying and understand their pain, their frustration, their anger.

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All of those guys were great, but Chris was particularly moving that ten seconds with the season end or is it already over?

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I really don't have any idea. I have no more idea than you do on where we're going with this. We'll find out today. All right.

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As always, there it was at the very end. Stan Van Gundy, he just doesn't know. Terrible analysis at the very end, but we appreciate his time nonetheless. Sally Jenkins, next.