Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the car rental studios, that's the Dave Ramsey Show where dad is Don King in the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. My co-host today on the air, number one, best selling author, Ramsey personality, Rachel Crooner's joins me. Also, my daughter will be answering your questions at eight eight two five five two two five.

I guess you're actually my daughter first and then your number one bestselling author. Sure. Switch the. Yeah, you can switch the topic, get the straight. What's the right order of the announcement here? Depends on what we're doing and say.

That's the weird thing about family business is I'm like, technically, I would be an author, first daughter, second in the seat. You're the CEO. First kind of cold. That's so true. I don't know. That's probably true. It works. Keep the levels anyway.

We're not confused about helping you, although we sound a bit confused. Open phones at eight eight two five five two two five eight eight two five five two two five.

To talk about your life and your money, Sarah starts off this hour in Syracuse, New York. Hi, Sarah. How are you? I'm good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hi, Rachel, as well, I'm I'm really glad that you guys took my call. I really appreciate it. Sure. So I'm a 22 year old grad student. I just graduated with my bachelor's this past May. And my question today for you guys is, should I actually continue on with my grad studies or should I try and enter the job market right now?

What do you want to do, Sara, for a little bit of just for a little bit of background. I'm about nineteen thousand dollars an undergraduate debt, but I've saved up fourteen thousand dollars in this past year. And it's that chunk of money that I'm really trying to figure out what to do with. I saved it up initially so that I could Cash-Flow my first year of graduate school that would cover all of my tuition costs. But honestly, the pandemic has had me rethinking everything lately and I just want to make sure that I'm making the best move for my future right now.

Absolutely.

Well, I think we start with the idea that knowledge is better than lack of knowledge. So knowing stuff is always a good thing.

It lowers your pain level if you know stuff. Right. And so we're not against school or academia, but we also don't want people thinking that school or academia is necessarily the key to success because there are no studies that show that. Now, what Rachel was asking, what field of study are you in?

I'm going into public administration. I've actually worked in public administration for the past year, and that's really where I found my critical and interesting.

So do you have to have this graduate degree in order to do that, considering you've been doing it, though, for the past year? What have you been doing for the past year?

So I've been I've been working for the state, actually. I don't necessarily need a degree, but I think that it would help me long term in the field. OK, well, Saraph, I woke up in your shoes tomorrow, I would continue to stay in the job field that year and continue working that what you've been doing because you're able to do the job without the degree, go ahead and pay down all your student loans and then if you want to go back to grad school and maybe, you know, three or four years when you have saved up money, then that's an option, because even school now, like it's all going to be online, like it's it's all it's all funky.

Now, education is because of covid-19 and tuition rates have not even they haven't they haven't decreased at all, even though everything's online. Like it's just it's such a wonky time right now. So if I were you if you were able to do the job you want to do without the graduate degree, go ahead and work and do that. And then if you look up in a few years and say, no, I really do need this degree to maybe get a different job or, yeah, like you're saying, to advance something.

So when you're looking forward to what is your job?

With your career path. So I'd really like to work in public finance, so that's the career, OK, she'll be the commissioner of finance for the state of New York. That would be quite a goal. Yeah, I mean, you're 42 went on. Yeah, I mean, we're we're dreaming. We're projecting out.

If not, you're the the right hand assistant who does all the actual work and doesn't getting the credit right. Either one's OK. Yeah. This is state government we're talking about. OK, yeah.

So you know, but that's, that's, that's your path. OK, now I'm not an expert on that truthfully on that, on that career field.

I mean I know a lot about a lot of career fields from having done financial coaching with the different fields. And so I've got an idea what people make and those kinds of things. My perspective with my limited knowledge is that you will need the Masters. In public administration to advance, because it's probably going to be a barrier for you to get into upper leadership positions within a state in because I think a lot of your peers will have that, am I correct?

Yes, that's what I was thinking, but I feel like what a lot of people do is they get a couple years in and then they go back for the degree. And I'm kind of just taking it a different.

Well, that's what I was going to suggest, which is kind of a combination of what Rachel said. Go ahead, take the job, see if the state won't pick up the bill, by the way, for the tuition, because some state state employees go to state universities free. Yeah, and stuff, I think I should have clarified this, so my position is actually an internship for my program.

It's not like, OK, but but you're making money, you got your foot in the door. If you can land a position, an entry level position and get started. And like Rachel said, let's let this resettling of higher education occur over the next 24 months. We don't know how much it's going to change. I don't predict it's going to change a ton. But one thing that has happened is, is that we have Americans have stepped back because of the student loan crisis.

Punch one, then punch two has been covered, sent everybody home. And all of a sudden these kids are trying to you know, they're trying to charge full tuition for a work, for a study from home program. And everybody's going. I don't think so.

I don't think they will pay that that the value proposition has shifted. And so that's a one two punch. Everybody was they weren't really questioning tuition as long as everything was going along, like it was too freaking high. But they weren't yelling about it too much unless they were deeply in student loan debt because of it. Now, with Koven, they're all having to go from home. They're like, I don't think so. Value proposition is not there.

So I think we're going to see some settling of something. It may just be a price adjustment where we all go higher. Education's knowledge is important, but it's way freakin overpriced.

And so maybe we're going to have us thing. So I'm with you, Rachel. I think she goes to work for two years, three years, might get on with the state or a pub or a city that has a tuition program. And then you work your tail off and take your masters at night and finish it up so that by the time you're twenty eight, you've got your masters and a bunch of work experience and by then you're going to have your career path dialed in.

I like that plan. And debt free and you're debt free, by the way. You know all of it. So yeah, that's, that's what I would do. I don't think you're in a rush. And I think and again, like you said, you can't predict it, you know, a crystal ball. But she probably will need a graduate degree eventually.

But I do think it's it's been a it's been a theme or at least it was a few years ago.

Statistically watching this is just some research that that's like the next step. Everyone does. They graduate with their bachelors and they just I'll I'll go to graduate school. Right. It just becomes that next step. So the fact that you're kind of pushing the limit to say what other options do I have? It's really healthy. It's really critical.

Thinking skills are kicking in. That's awesome. Yeah, I agree with that. It's not automatic. And again, we're not against master's degrees. We're against useless masters degrees or master's degrees that have no market value. Translation useless masters degrees. They're not required. If you're going to go into psychology and get licensed with the state, you have to have a master's degree. It's a precursor. OK, if you're going to run a 250 million dollar business, it's helpful to have a master's in business, but I don't have one.

And I grew this from a card table in my living room. It's not a precursor to courses to happen. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Finding the right pair of sunglasses on a budget is difficult. They're either too expensive or they don't hold up. But recently I got a great pair of sunglasses from a company called Shady. They are a game changer. Chagres Raise offers premium sunglasses that protect your eyes and are completely affordable. I'm talking the best overall value in sunglasses.

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Know Yourself, Know Your Money.

And the presale on this book we launched it a week ago is at record levels. It's one of the fastest selling books we have ever launched. Rachel, I think you have caught a nerve.

I think I think people are. I think they're interested.

Yeah, well, I think that this book for me, as I was writing it and I was realizing I mean, this one really, really came from my heart. I know the other ones did as well with is smart money, smart kids. My first book was with you, you know, and, you know, kind of telling that story of like, that's how I grew up. Love yourself or I'm sorry.

Well, like I was I literally like you right out of your life. Love your life, not theirs. I mean, I literally was like, I cannot remember the name of my book. Oh, my gosh.

But I wrote that Mothers of Kindergarten was there, my three kids. So that's why I love your life, not theirs. Yeah. That one came out of kind of a the comparison thing obviously was I was is still a huge issue and was in my life for sure.

But I kind of wanted to do like a core money book, you know, with my with my thoughts around it and all of that. That was good. And so this book just kind of came out of 100 percent me. I was like, I don't feel like I have to check any boxes. Like, not that the others were checking boxes, but this was like a full on what I want to write a book about. I'm like, this is it 100 percent.

It's things I'm learning. It's things that have changed my life. And so that's been a fun that was a fun part as an author that I really just felt I felt led to all the content that's in it.

So well, I'm privy to the manuscript since it's our company doing it, obviously, and I read them.

And so I know what you're saying, but you know yourself, know your money, discover why you handle money the way you do and what to do about it.

So you've kind of got the book broken up into sections. Yes.

So there's eight sections walking you through understanding yourself. So the way I've always the way I was thinking about as I was writing the manuscript was, you know, Ramsey would do a great job building upon the foundation of people's lives when it comes to their money. I mean, we are the best on the planet. A teaching you. Here's how to budget. Here's how to get out of debt, why you should get out of debt. Here's how to build up your retirement.

Here's how to become a millionaire. Here's how to pay off your house like we were so good at that and building upon the foundation. But this book is all going under that foundation of who you are as a person, the person who is handling the money, you know your money. Is it how much your childhood affected you in the house you grew up in, how your fears and life affects the way you handle money, how your dreams affect your money, how your tendencies personality wise affect your money, how your relationships in your life affect your money.

I mean, all this stuff and understanding why. This is why I handle money the way I do, breaking it out and all those yet eight different sections.

So really, Ramsey tribe members, about the only thing they will see that they have ever seen before is nerd free spirit. Are you a nerd or free spirit or are you spend are safer, which is stuff we taught in financial peace university as far back as when you were a little kid. But I mean to the point that we have people on debt free stage one, I'm wearing a T-shirt, says I'm the nerd. The other one says I'm the free spirit, that kind of stuff.

So it's ingrained into the folks that have been doing Ramsey stuff for a long time. But you just took that concept of going, oh, that's helpful to be able to communicate in my marriage and go, well, yeah, you're you're more of a detail person and I'm more of I don't care about details and or you're more of the natural saver. I'm not the National Center and gave you a context to have a discussion in your marriage or just look at yourself in the mirror and go, that's who I am.

And so I've got these positive tendencies, negative tendencies.

And you just took that general idea, that little tiny little sliver of an idea.

And then you went into the family of origin where you come from, how your family handle money, and then how does that affect how you handle money and fears money, fears?

I think that's probably one of the most powerful parts of the book. Hmm. Yeah. Going through, there's really six core financial frauds. I mean, there's a lot, but those were the six that I that I feel like I hear from all the time. They're six of them. And so unpacking that and just saying, OK, you know, how does that how does fear and general dictate your life? You don't even realize it, what it does to your psyche and everything.

And when you can break that down and say, OK, here are the things I can control. I mean, all of it. So, yeah, that the fears section was a was an interesting one.

We've got a free money quiz that you can take and it'll get you give you an idea and get you started on this whole discussion. It's a great thing.

It's completely free, no strings attached. No salesmen will go text the word money, quiz one word, no blank money quiz to thirty three 789 and get started text money quiz to thirty three 789. You get started if you buy know yourself, know your money.

In the presale that were in the middle of right now you get fifty dollars worth of free bonus items. The book actually comes out January five which will be here in 2010. And we will all be cheering because 2020 will be over and know yourself, know your money audiobook is included, know yourself, know your money ebook is included. Exclusive video lesson from Rachel. I mean, covid will be gone. The presidential election will be gone. 20-20 will be gone.

This is like this is going to I'm just this I'm throwing the biggest New Year's Eve party on the planet.

Oh yeah. We need twenty twenty out of here.

And you just predicted covid is going to be gone. I don't know about that. I well I mean, I mean, I mean all the I.

Oh I just. No, no no no no no. I'm saying that all just blogging.

Hey, it's all right. No, I was saying because you're always so optimistic, which causes me to be optimistic. Like back when all this happened in March, I was like shortly by June, it's all going to be over is fine. And June came. I was like, sure, by August and everything's going to be fine then. Like, Yeah. So you're just optimistic saying, surely, surely don't call me don't call me Shirley, sir.

All right. All right.

Katherine in Newark, New Jersey. Hey, Katherine, welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show.

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I had a question. My husband and I were in baby steps sixth, and last year we took out a 30 year fixed mortgage. It was before we started listening to you and it was at three point six to five percent. The monthly payments, about twenty four percent of our Take-Home Pay. I recently got a quote to refinance to a fifteen year at two point eighty five percent with closing costs, roughly two thousand dollars that they would credit us a thousand dollars because of a promotion.

But they're running. So I'm not sure if it's worth it for us to refinance at this point.

How much is your loan? Two hundred ninety two thousand. If you save one percent, what, you're going to save a little more than that, right? Your interest rate today versus your interest rate after the refinance is more than one percent correct? It is, yes, so in one year, you would save one percent on two hundred and twenty five thousand dollars. Which would be OK. Two thousand two hundred bucks, right? OK, you do that right?

And it's only going to cost you a thousand dollars out of pocket to do this. Yes, so your break even point on this is six months after six months, you're going to be making money not due to the 15 or the 30, but due to the interest rate being less.

You don't and you don't refinance to go from a 30 to a 15 year refinance to save money on interest. Right. OK, so if we're going to stay in this home, I would refinance it and it's probably going to bump it's probably a bump your payment up when you do a 15 up above where we would like it to be, it's probably gone bump it up to around 30 percent.

That's not the end of the world, especially if you said your baby, step six, you've got no other debts, and especially on top of that, as if your income is not stagnant.

OK, like five years from now, how much do you think your income will increase? Will your current career track? Right. OK, I will definitely increase five years from now will probably be over 200000 a year. Yeah.

Then also the point of the whole thing on 25 percent of your take home pay, that's what you're referring to, is to not get a house for.

Yeah. Making sure that your house isn't taking over. I mean, we talk to people sometimes and half their paycheck is going to their house. And it's like there's no way you're going to go to make a ton of financial progress when your mortgage is eating up so much. But, yeah, I think you're still in a great position, Catherine, to do so. Refinance and if it. Yeah, and if it bumps up close to that 30 percent and a few years, it'll be back down to 25 percent because of your because of your income.

Yeah. So we used to say you needed to save two percent or more on your interest rate in order to refinance. That was a rule of thumb with the interest rates as low as they are. That formula doesn't necessarily work exactly anymore. So the way you do it, as you take how much interest you're going to save in dollars with your change in interest rate annually and you divide that into your closing costs. So if she's saving two thousand dollars and her closing cost was four thousand dollars means it would take two years to break.

Even if she's going to stay in the house longer than two years, she would do it with her promotional situation with this mortgage company she's done in six months. It's a no brainer. Do the refinance. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. You know, what angers me is folks are going through some really hard times, identity thieves are using every opportunity to prey on us. The scams are endless. You need to be prepared. Zanders I.D. theft protection is the only plan I have ever recommended and I've looked at them all.

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So you're not you're not going to read the question and we'll read it. Just write it. OK, questions from Daniel in Florida.

My wife and I use the every dollar app consistently. Well, this is great. You're the every dollar.

What do we do with extra money left over at the end of the month? In a specific line item category, for example, we budget a hundred twenty five dollars for electric bill and ends up running 107 to our truck. That extra money into savings or put it towards dad or use it for fun money. I've noticed that I will have an extra 150 to 200 an extra money in categories we over budgeted because we don't spend all the money. So what would you do?

I don't know. You just called me out from America. I didn't really hear the question.

OK, so they budget one hundred million dollars for later Bill seven. OK, so they have extra money coming in. They have extra money that they don't spend on electric bills instead of one hundred seven hundred twenty five. What do you do with the difference.

Yeah. Throw it toward your baby steps. What we do. Yeah. Yeah. So if you have debt throw the extra at the debt. If you're building up your emergency fund, throw it to the emergency fund. Now if you're in baby steps fourth or seven, this is where you can kind of be like, you know, we could put that somewhere.

I mean, you could put it in fund category. And if you're a baby, that's one through three, definitely apply it to the baby. Exactly.

Exactly. Yeah.

So basically, though, as you're doing your every dollar budget, what happens is that when the real bill comes in versus the allocated amount, then you make the adjustment in your every dollar budget and you say, OK, 107 is the real electric bill, not one hundred and twenty five. And so I've got that difference and I'm going to pull that difference and put it over in another category. And every dollar budgeting app makes that easy to do. Yeah, absolutely.

You're reconciling your budget to reality as you go along. Yes. And every dollar helps with the math. I mean, it keeps showing you what you have. Now, that's a great situation when the every dollar budget, when it comes in less than what you allotted. The worst is when you decide to turn on your irrigation and you get your water bill next month. And it's just something happen to somebody I know. I don't know.

I'm not saying I'm a moratorium on irrigation in the water bills. Yes, yeah, yeah.

We didn't really count for it in the overall budget. So we got our water bill this month. The other way around it was the other way round, which hurts because then you got to lower these other categories. You're like, dang it, the grass is greener on the other side costs money than that. Yeah, it's just having the cut cut things.

I mean that's what I'm saying though is like, well when you budget though that's a real thing, like your stuff shows up.

You feel like really what happens is reality starts hit you in the face instead of you being able to ignore it. Yes. And then you think happens when you do a business budget, too. Yeah. One hundred percent. So anyways, when, when you have more money left over, that's the fun part of budgeting because you have more money to spend.

But when, when bills come up a little bit higher, you gotta, you got to reconcile it. But it's worth it because then, you know, I mean we have the money for it. And so we're just going to switch other categories, lower other ones. Got a way to go. That's exactly right.

So the self study course for teenagers at home, sort of a home school study edition of our high school curriculum, if you will know, instructed Nader needed. You can teach your kids how to handle money. So when they're grown, they can leave and pay their irrigation bill.

So right now, our self study course is at a deal. Go to Dave Ramsey, Dotcom Self Study and learn all about the different courses available for middle school students and high school students so that your kids can have a sense of confidence.

What happens when someone's a teenager and they go through this high school curriculum, whether it's at home or in the classroom, their confidence level about existing in the real world increases because there's a lot of fear.

We're looking at the real world and not knowing if I can make it. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Well, so many unknowns. And so when you unpack it, especially the money part, which I feel like that curriculum does a really great job giving those students what they need to know. And it's all common sense like these. They're going to learn things for sure. But overall, they're getting ingrained that this is this is the wisest way to handle your money. Things like live on less than you make. If you have the money, don't buy it.

Those type of things that creates forced conversations with your teenagers. Yeah. That you might not have had otherwise. Like work is where money comes from, not entitlement.

Dave Ramsey, Dotcom Self Study. Check it out. Page is with us in Abilene, Texas. Hi, Paige.

How can we help? How do you, Dave and Rachel, thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. I am so I'm 21 years old and I'm about to graduate from college in May, and I've been fortunate enough to have a good job while I've been working my way through school and I'll be graduating debt free. And I've also accumulated about fifteen thousand dollars at the time when I graduate. So my question to you is you do the best.

So I ended up working full time in school. I was working for one of the major cell phone company providers, so they ended up paying me both hourly and commission. So that was really helpful. And you were good at that.

You're a good salesman. OK, and where you work, you go to school. So I get to Abilene Christian University. OK, and you pay cash for it? Yes, sir. You're incredibly proud of you. And you 50000 dollars left over in your questions. What? So I'm just curious as to what is the best way that I should spend the money I was considering maybe, but putting it as a down payment on a house? I'm not sure that's the right decision, just with me being pretty young yet.

Yeah. This is, number one, a great conversation. It's usually the complete opposite of what we're getting when when you when there's a college student usually, you know, obviously there's tens of thousands of dollars of student loans. So the fact you have 50 grand saved up. I would I would not rush to throw it at a house right now. I would just kind of pause, let this life transition happen after you graduate from college and may see what see what you want to do.

Where do you want to go? Where do you want to live? And that that transition between college in the real world can be a very expensive one.

And so having that cash available, not to rush that, you feel like you have to spend it, have it there when you go once you settle down and when you get how much, that's a noncollege couch, they cost more.

That is true.

So, yes, I didn't come from a didn't come from a Craigslist, Craigslist or a garage sale couch. Right. So they do cost more and not not that you're going to blow the whole 50 grand on consumer items. But Rachel's right. Getting settled into, quote, the the big girl job and the adult job and all that kind of stuff and settle down, get your own place getting settled.

Let's do that and take 24 months. You'll be 23. And let's see what life. Channon you then. And I think you'll make a much better decision on buying a house.

OK, Page, can I interview you for like two seconds while I have you on the phone? Sure. OK, so how much was your call?

How much is your tuition a year or so before scholarships. I think it usually it's supposed to be about thirty seven thousand, but I've been able to get some scholarships and I think it's it's down to about sixteen thousand dollars a year. And then my company, they actually give me five thousand dollars a year in tuition reimbursement. So I've been out of pocket about six thousand dollars a year.

And what were your scholarships?

And they were just some academic scholarships. And then I also got some from the colleges business where I'm doing my degree and the many scholarships that you get.

And how many did you apply for? So I applied for quite a few. I applied for all the university scholarships, and I was I wasn't able to apply for them until my second year. And then once I got those, I ended up getting quite a bit more in scholarships. And I even had one semester that was completely paid for just by the scholarships that I received.

And then how many hours are you working a week page?

It kind of varies, but usually I'm working about thirty five hours a week, OK, and carrying a full load and graduate in four years.

Yes, there I'll be getting my masters. I thought people died. If they did that I thought that was childbearing easy.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's not easy but not but graduating with eighty thousand hours of student loan debt and no money in your pocket ain't easy either. You know, you're a rock amazing.

Bajwa. I just wanted to say it out loud for America to hear because it is possible. I mean, we get I get pushback all the time.

When I talk about going to college debt free, you want to say push back, go read my Instagram comments right now. After I posted this, the federally insured student loan program is stupid and it needs to stop now. We the people need to quit letting Congress insure loans in our name to put young people so deeply in debt they can't breathe. I'm not against education. I'm against stupidity.

All the comments are so you don't want people to go to college and you can't afford college, you old man. You don't know anything about the cost of college. The comments are full of stupid people. And there is there's a rock star out there who just did it. That's absolutely freaking amazing. Amazing. So you should comment on Instagram if you're stupid, OK? Their comments are stupid. They are not stupid. Yes, both would be true.

Both would be true. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We were rudely interrupted by the networks need to make a profit around here with those commercials, and so I want to continue that discussion, the answer to the equation is simply this.

OK, young page as absolute rock star and is an example of people, thousands of people that we have met over the years that have gone to college debt free.

OK, now what do we tell people? Anthony O'Neill's book, Debt Free Degree covers this. And the first thing that you have to do is you have to stop saying. To yourself and for sure, to your young people, America, that the only way to go to college because college is expensive, that you only way to go to college is a student loan, and to do away with the student loan debt program would mean to do away with education, which is absolutely asinine and wrong.

So you have to stop saying that first and then how could you say that? Well, you can say that with the proof that's in the pudding and the elements that you need to do to go to college debt free are.

Scholarships, what she's doing is choosing a school you can afford, first and foremost scholarships and grants working. I mean, there's there's there's many elements. But I think that my very first step, though, well, the one before that one was that you have to decide yourself, I'm not going to do this, like I'm not going into debt for it. So now what are my options? And when you do that, then reality starts to play in.

OK, maybe I go to a community college for the first year or two. My my school selection is key. Maybe you say in state and go to a public university page. So freakin went to a private school. Thirty seven thousand dollars a year. But had the scholarships to do it and worked and never never paid. Thirty seven thousand. No. She chose her school based on where she could get scholarships and that she could afford it. So you go to a school that's doing that.

Abilene Christian in this case, which I've got a good friend who graduated from there, a couple of them of fact, and.

You also can go to an in-state school, you also can go to a community college, and you don't have to go across state lines and pay three times the tuition for basically the same education because you want to cross the state line out.

Some adjoining states sometimes will give you in-state tuition because they're trying to attract students across the state.

Oh, yeah.

And particularly students with good grades. Now, the other thing was she had a good grades.

Let me tell you also what else she had great parents. I know she had great parents, she's articulate and poised and confident she is working hard. Thirty five hours a week, she did her studies when she was in high school and wasn't turned out to run loose and anarchy. We know that because she got academic scholarships, OK, you don't get those without putting in the work. They don't look at people and go, oh, you're smart. They go, you did the work and you got the grades and you're smart.

That's how academic scholarships happen. So there was disappointing that household.

Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, and and to her credit, I'm like, she's 21, she's a rock star and just absolutely killed it. So it is it that's why I wanted to keep her on the phone. So I'm like it's just proof like this shows you it's stories we hear all the time, but not everyone hears them. So when you have someone like that on the phone, you're like, OK, tell me exactly what you did, what was your situation?

Because and I honestly thought she was going to go to a public school, people that worked their way through so that she went to a freaking private school thirty seven thousand dollars a year. And so did it with scholarships.

And I never paid more than sixteen. It's amazing. More than sixteen for the money. And that's the deal. She worked them because they wanted her there.

And you believe me, if you're a college, you want pay people like Paige there. Yeah. They work at getting you there. So parents parent.

These are 18 year olds, 17 year olds, 15 year olds that are preparing for college, they need to get their little butts in gear and get ready and not wander out half drunk out of their senior year trying to figure out what we just want to go to college.

Like the guy called me up. He's like, I don't know what I'm going to do. My daughter told me she's going to this expensive school. And I'm like, well, see, that's where you get confused. In my household, my teenagers didn't tell me stuff. I told them stuff.

My daughter told me where she's going with my money. How does that work?

That don't work.

And so, you know, we didn't do that in our place. You know, we didn't I mean, we discussed it. We had a conversation, but we all kind of knew where you were going to school in state where we could pay for it and pay cash for it and not overpay for it.

And, you know, the young lady called me up a few months ago from South Carolina. She wants to go to Ole Miss and pay five times, four times the tuition because she's out of state instead of going to South Carolina in-state. Why? I asked her. The houses around Ole Miss. It's such a pretty town.

It is very pretty. You know, it's a pretty town. You're killing me here. Oxford is in Oxford.

It's a gorgeous town. And for a few hundred dollars, you can visit once a year and stay a week. I know. And you don't have to pay five times or four times the tuition to go out of state dumber than a rock and believable now, though, and I'm paying the bill because she got a federally insured student loan insured by a taxpayer. But if if a South Carolina girl wants to go to Ole Miss and she had scholarships and had the money to go, go, you're not mad that go.

But please don't make your decision based on how pretty the town is. It's not how you pick your education. That's just not good. Critical thinking skills was not an art class. Oh, my God. It's an education study. Oh, because. Well, OK.

It's an anathema to me that we don't think about education. I know. But listen, this is where this is where your point about the parents being parents is huge is what your eighteen year old sees. Their perspective is right here. Right. Their perspective is who's going to what school are they going to do it for a sorority or fraternity? Are they doing in a like like that is their world and you parents are decades ahead of them. And so to bring that reality to the eighteen year old is what is key.

So, yes, you're not you're not picking a school based on how pretty the town is. You're not doing it based on friends. It is what is smart financially and where you can get a good education if you're paying for it. So doing all that, because what's going to happen is that 18 year olds perspective is going to go through four years, five years of school, hopefully for if they do it in town and time and then they're going to be five years out looking back and have zero one year out, no regrets.

The people that share the regrets from are the eight year olds who didn't have conversations to their parents. They really just signed up for a school they wanted to sign up for. Then they're a year out with tens of thousands of dollars of student loans that they're having to pay back. And they're not able to do things that they want to do stuck because of that. So it is lately for us, it's all they see. So her see in the pretty town, that's all she sees.

So like having people in her life who I'm sure you did on the call from, I was like, she was nice.

I was I was I had to breathe, but I was not.

But it's true. But like, that's the thing is like and I even learned in a book recently, I'm going to totally butcher this. All you psychologists out there can correct me. But even like the frontal lobe of your brain, like fully does not become mature until like twenty five or something.

So they're making major talks about they're making these decisions that are going to affect them for so long.

And so that's what you have to look at, are a loving parent by having these conversations and talking about here's one, OK, out of all the successful people I know and I am privy to run around with some uber successful people, I have never met a soul. That said, I am successful because I graduated from a college that I followed my girlfriend to. Not once I selected the college, I'm going to, based on my girlfriend is going there and that led to my success in life, I'll go a step further.

You have probably never met someone that says I am successful because of where I went to school even.

That's true. That's true. But they often tell stories, you know, when you get older of regret for the stupid but stuff that we have all done.

Yeah. And I've got a Ph.D. in the December B, I've got a whole list of stupid, but stories of things I've done.

And, you know, but following your girlfriend to college would be on the list.

You don't go to college because your girlfriend is going there. I'm sorry.

Unless you can make it, even if you can pay for it. This is not a recreational activity. It's an education. It's an education. This is not how you select your field of study and the place that you're going to do it and what you're going to pay for it and this is how we have a student loan crisis is we're financing this crap.

The number of people when we did borrowed future that we interviewed for that podcast that use their student loans to buy cars while they were in college was innumerous.

Yeah, for sure.

Well, the amount of money that goes to lifestyle is yes, I live in an apartment with a skylight and a Jacuzzi and they play beer pong on their time off on my nickel because I guaranteed these student loans because I'm an idiot as a taxpayer and I allowed Congress to continue to do this work work the. So we're guaranteeing loans for argument, just nutty, nutty and a fruitcake. So go to a college. You can afford work, work. It's not a dirty word.

It's not a four letter word. You're not going to die from it right before you die. You'll pass out work. It's OK. Work, work, go to a college you can afford and get scholarships. Parents parent.

This is the Dave Ramsey Show Childs producer of the Dave Ramsey Show. Once again, you made The Dave Ramsey Show one of the top four most popular podcast last year to get your daily dose of motivation and inspiration from the Ramsey network subscribe or follow today wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, if you've got questions about retirement investing and becoming an everyday millionaire, go bigger and broader with my man Chris Hogan on the Chris Hogan Show. I am excited to be able to talk to you all week in and week out.

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